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Eden's Shore by Oisín Fagan | Review · Bookies' Favourite

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Welcome back to Bookies Favorites.
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We're back. We're actually a voice down this
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week. Hannah is travelling, which I
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feel like Hannah's always travelling.
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So yes. So this week we've been reading
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Aidan Shore by Oshin Fagan. Later in this episode, we will
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also be revealing which book won our poll over the last two
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weeks. So.
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We'll be announcing what our next read is going to be at the
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end of this episode, and we will also be pitching our new picks
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for the next poll that we'll be spanning across the next two
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weeks. If you want to pick the OR help
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us decide what book we are going to be reading after the this
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upcoming read. Eden Shore by Oshing Fagan is,
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though it is only 335 pages. Only.
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It does not feel like it's 300. And 30. 5 pages because.
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I think it's the longest book we've read so far on this
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podcast. I think so.
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We have read a lot of short books, to be completely fair,
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but like it's so short for what happens in it.
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It's, it's like a it's, it is epic and I've seen it written a
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few times, like about it. It's epic.
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And I, and I feel like it definitely lives up to that
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because I was thinking at the time, how can a book be epic and
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be like 330 something pages? But no, I think within the 1st
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100 pages it's already pretty epic.
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And but yeah, I'm just going to run through roughly how it's
1:40
broken down and a few of the characters maybe and and I do
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you say a few of the characters because if I listed all of the
1:48
characters. Yeah, that'd be the entire
1:49
podcast. Here forever, yeah.
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So it's roughly split into two to two parts, but there, there
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are three parts, but the last part is very, very short.
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And in Part 1, it is broken up into two parts as well.
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So the first part of the first part is called sea, and it
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focuses on the character Angel Kelly, who's kind of an Irish
2:14
law student who's kind of dissatisfied and he's got a bit
2:17
of money. So he decides that he's going to
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try and start a commune in Brazil.
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And so he gets passage toward on a on a boat across towards
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Brazil. And we'll go in more depth about
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that. And then the next part of the
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first part is called land and it focuses on man that Angel meets
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on the boat and his name's Flores.
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They have they've gone offshore and they're in a kind of a
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little town with natives. They're kind of just working out
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what what they're going to do next in that.
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But it's mainly through the character Flores, who we will
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talk about more. And then the second part, the
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first part of the second part is called Colony and it takes place
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eight years in the future from land.
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And it's about it actually has various characters at this
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point. It's not really one specific
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viewpoint, but there's a couple of of important characters and
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there's a lot more going on and behind the scenes with like
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colonial Pars. So there's the, the main kind of
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people involved are the Spanish colonists and this family called
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the Benjamins, who are, I think they kind of represent
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capitalism as a whole. There's maybe going to be a
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rising from the, the slaves and the natives against the Spanish
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colonists. And there's a lot of kind of
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like behind the scenes stuff from the Benjamin family where
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they're trying to tip everything in their own favor in regards
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to, to they're kind of behind the scenes listening to what
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everything's happening and, and hoping they can like ride the
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wave of a revolution and make it work out for them.
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Ride the wave. I like that.
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Lucy. Nautical.
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Nautical. Try to be as nautical as
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possible. And then in the, in the fourth
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part of well, second part Part 2 is called play and it's
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basically the unfolding of everything.
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But there's also a play going on as well.
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Angel has written a play about his time, his adventure from
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Ireland to we actually don't know where, somewhere in
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southern Latin America somewhere.
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It's the play part is interesting.
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I was like, what is happening? That was when the narration
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really just goes off. And again, it's another, it's a
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lot of different points of view happen in this chapter.
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And it's kind of like how the the revolution is not revolution
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that the uprising is going and that kind of thing.
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And then there's a final part, which is a bit of a dream kind
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of sequence, I'm thinking and and it's called world.
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So that's roughly what happens in the in the book.
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I do have to say that eh, reading through this, I read the
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first 16 pages of the book and I found it incredibly dense.
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Not in a negative way, but in a way that so much had happened
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just in the 1st 16 pages. I struggled to sit down and
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continue to read. So I ended up resorting to the
5:19
audio book and I would read the audio book as well as reading
5:24
the book at the same time. And I think that that really
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helped me. Well, so I, when I started it,
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it was a couple of weeks ago and I was like, I, I don't know, I
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didn't realize it was going to be as dense as it was.
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So I read the first book quite quickly and then I realized I
5:39
can't read this quickly because so much has happened and there's
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so many characters have been introduced.
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And I feel like he has this way of, and I think we were kind of
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speaking about it when we were chatting on WhatsApp, but he has
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this way of he doesn't emphasize anything specifically.
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So a lot of stuff will happen and he doesn't give weight.
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Yeah, it's also neutral, like it's left to you to decide the
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importance or understand the importance of each event.
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Totally. So it's kind of like you, you,
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you forget about things so quickly.
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Other things are happening and then you're like, and a lot of
6:11
things. I think this is something that
6:13
is brilliantly done throughout it.
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You are just confused for ages. And then something that you're
6:17
really confused about, actually 50 page later, pages later makes
6:22
complete, yes. And you're like we talk about
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ESA. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
6:27
There's plenty of parts though where I.
6:29
Yeah, there's loads. I don't know what's happened
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here. Like I've no clue.
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Am I supposed to know? And I've kind of gone back pages
6:34
and gone, yeah. Is there something that I've
6:36
missed because you could so easily mess like half a
6:39
paragraph? Yeah, like the jellyfish.
6:40
Something perfectly the jellyfish.
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And I feel like there's so many parts of it where you could just
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you could just. And I think this is one of those
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books that you could probably read another four times and
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still enjoy it like it was the first time you read that.
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Because there's still so like I, I spent, I read it quite slowly
7:03
over the last week, but I still was like, there's so, so much
7:06
stuff I've missed out on. And there's so many characters.
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I'm like, there's probably more of a significance to this
7:11
character than I've given way to.
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I honestly really really enjoyed this book.
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I this is just my kind of fiction, I think.
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You mean sprawling, confusing 300 characters type of fix and
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iron? World.
7:32
Building I do that. Yeah, I'm surprised too.
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I don't know why I haven't. Why, why, why, why are you?
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Surprised. I don't know why I'm surprised
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at that. I don't know why I'm surprised
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at that. I just, I, I think I'm, I'm
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surprised because I think you would prefer like a simpler,
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simpler story. Not saying that you can't follow
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the others. You're like.
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Well, bear in mind that out of all the books we've read so far,
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my favorite has been under. The eye of the bird, which is.
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Very much about world. Building, and I guess it's very
8:02
much about world building. That's true, yeah.
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And about I, I don't know if I just like the idea of like,
8:09
stories about societies and cultures and yeah, but what what
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what about you 2? What's are your overall
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thoughts? So you, when I started reading
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it, I, I wasn't that sure I was like, I like a boat book, I like
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a sea. But I don't read books like this
8:27
very often. Like I, it actually really hit
8:30
me how I don't read as fast a pace a book as this because it's
8:34
really fast-paced and there's a lot of action in it.
8:37
And I find it hard at times to like keep in my head what's
8:40
happening if there's like action scenes in books.
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So that it took me completely out of my comfort zone.
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But I realized after reading the first part, I was like, I have
8:49
to slow down my reading of this and think about this in a way
8:53
that I didn't have to do with any of the other books that
8:55
we've read so far. I was like, I actually have to
8:58
concentrate to know what's happening here.
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And then when I did slow down my reading of it, I started to
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really, really enjoy it. So I actually, I thought it was
9:09
great. I thought and I think that it's,
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it's definitely a book to, I'm going to read it twice, I think
9:15
100%. Yeah, for me, I, I mean, I think
9:19
this was maybe just bad timing and this type of book coming up
9:22
with it. Like I really enjoyed the book,
9:24
but I really did struggle to just read it because of for all
9:28
of the multitude of things we've already talked about, we'll dive
9:31
into a bit later. But I think I was also just I'm
9:33
in a reading slump and like this was not the type of book to help
9:37
me through that. You know, this was the this is
9:39
the type of book you you come to and every you're like, OK, I'm
9:41
ready for a bit of a challenge, something that like, you know,
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there's a bit more out there. So while I enjoyed it and I like
9:49
like what I was saying and stuff, I don't think I enjoyed
9:52
as much as you guys, but I think that's mostly down to like my
9:56
reading of it currently. Do you know what?
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Because we skipped a week like so we we took an extra week of
10:03
doing it. See if I'd read it for last
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week, I don't think I'd have enjoyed it half as much because
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I've read two other books during that period.
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And those two other books were the complete opposite of this
10:12
book. They were very explained
10:13
everything, everything was. And I think if I'd read it
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before I read those two, because I read those two really quickly
10:20
and I was like, I need to read a different type of book.
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So for me, this caught me at a really good time in that it
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wouldn't have caught me at a good time before and I would
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have been like, spoon feed me, please, yeah.
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Just explain it. Just explain what's happening.
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I need like an overview. But yeah, I totally think this
10:38
is, this is not the kind of book you can.
10:41
It's not a summer holiday. Really.
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No, most definitely not. Even though, like, it kind of
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seems like that from the outside.
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I would say like the marketing jellyfish.
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Yeah, there's a jellyfish. Come on.
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It's Holder. Shout out to Hannah, who got
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sung by a jellyfish while I'm Helda.
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She did. You're in our memory, Hannah.
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You're in our memory. Anna's thigh is in our memory.
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So this week our bookie that has shared their thoughts is a
11:07
Scottish gentleman called Graham and he is Graham under score C
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and this is his thoughts on Eden Shore.
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Hello, my name's Graham from Glasgow and I recently read Eden
11:21
Shore by Ocean Fagan and I absolutely loved it.
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I'm a real sucker for historical fiction and this book certainly
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ticked all my boxes. Too often we describe a book as
11:35
being epic, Eden Shore truly is. To call it epic would be a
11:41
colossal understatement. It's truly sprawling in scope.
11:45
What a great tale of adventure across the seas to the New
11:49
World. The thing with piracy,
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revolution, colonialism, the the time of empire when all the
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major European nation states are clamouring to carve up the New
12:01
World. Brutal time, the suppression of
12:04
the indigenous peoples and of course, slavery.
12:09
And at the same time and background, you've got the
12:12
European Enlightenment going on, all these ideas of, you know,
12:17
freedom, liberty, equality. But not for everyone, of course.
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In what starts out is a hazy Enlightenment fantasy with our
12:27
young Irish law student and drunk on not just rum but
12:31
Russell quickly dissolves into something far more harrowing and
12:37
brittle. Joseph Conrad, The Heart of
12:40
Darkness, Eat your heart out. And this was something else.
12:45
I was reminded of a few other books and some of the more
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fantastical fever dream moments and what what brilliant writing.
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I was reminded of the kind of surrealness like in 100 Years of
13:00
Solitude, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, which is set in the
13:04
same part of the world. And I was also reminded of when,
13:08
when, when we meet the crew and well, there, there are so many
13:12
fantastically written characters in, in this story that when we
13:17
meet the crew, such a diverse international crew.
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And when we meet them, I was reminded of many of the scenes
13:27
and Melville's Moby Dick and their interactions.
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And then lastly, I would say that the writing is is is
13:35
brilliant, very lyrical and very lacerating and quite.
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And some of the scenes are some of the brutal scenes are
13:45
described in such nauseating detail.
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So not a bit for the faint hearted.
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Yeah, I absolutely love this book and I very much recommend
13:57
it. And I'll be absolutely checking
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out Fagan's work. Yeah, I think he hit the knee on
14:02
the head when he was saying about how epic it is and the
14:05
characters and and everything. He happened to bring up books
14:09
that I haven't read that he's converted to.
14:12
Except I read Moby Deck about 15 years ago, actually more than 15
14:16
years ago. So I don't have any real
14:18
memories. Very Moby, very Moby.
14:20
And I can also see the heart of the heart of darkness and stuff
14:23
too. Like, yeah, it definitely seems
14:25
like Ashton Fagan is drawing, like a lot of inspiration from.
14:29
I don't know, was that adventure fiction?
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Is that what you would call it? Yeah, yeah.
14:33
Yeah, I think, I think that's, that's the kind of thoughts I
14:36
have knows and that's something I don't really read very often.
14:40
So yeah. For me, Treasure Island, Lucy,
14:42
Treasure Island. I do love Treasure Island.
14:45
Actually, I do. I love.
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Treasure Island Exclamation mark, Yeah.
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Exclamation mark. Exclamation mark exclamation.
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Mark, great book. I know my cousin bought me that
14:55
and I was like, what have you bought me?
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Sorry, Aaron. It's this really weird book
14:59
where this girl is really obsessed with Treasure Island,
15:02
so she like molds her life on Treasure Island.
15:06
Yeah, follows the pirate code, doesn't she?
15:09
Yeah, she's so weird, but it was like like my cousin got me and I
15:14
was like, I this is a really weird sounded book.
15:16
I'm not going to enjoy it. No, it was probably like I was
15:19
like if I ever wrote a book. It might be the.
15:24
Book I wish I'd written, but it's so good.
15:26
It's so weird. And but yeah, it has that real
15:30
feel of I think especially because of the start, the way it
15:33
starts with the boat and and you're going on this adventure
15:37
and I don't know what you guys will probably just go into
15:40
talking about like this. The sea part where Angel gets on
15:44
the boat and. We meet all these different
15:47
colorful crew and, and we find out like, yeah, there's a mutiny
15:51
going on and it all ends in like, well, disaster.
15:56
And OK, I do have to say we keep talking about all these
16:00
different characters on the ship.
16:06
Most of the characters are from Spain, Portugal, France are
16:13
actually. Are any of them from Portugal?
16:15
Are they all from? Spain no the the the first mate
16:18
right? I'm going to pronounce this
16:19
wrong. Lafcadio is that.
16:21
I think you're right, Lafcados. OK.
16:24
Lafcadio is from Brazil, so I imagine he speaks Portuguese,
16:27
yes. But the other thing I think is
16:29
it, I think. Jacques.
16:33
Valencian and so, yeah. Yeah, it is.
16:41
And Geronimo, he's from somewhere in OK, I think.
16:48
That's that's the thing. We're introduced to all these
16:50
characters in such a short space of time and coming from like an
16:55
Irish point of view and they're all these characters are very
17:00
similar. They're all men, which
17:01
obviously, why would they be women?
17:03
Like it makes sense for this setting.
17:06
I definitely thought Marion Lynch was a woman.
17:10
No, I knew Marian. Lynch I mean, for a little bit.
17:13
And then I was like, no, this is.
17:15
The name is very. I did find that the Irish names
17:19
were weird because Marian is not a regular man's name in.
17:23
Ireland, I think back in the day.
17:25
Maybe, but yet Angel is such a strange name for.
17:30
Yeah. To me, that's to me, that's a
17:32
Latino name. Yeah.
17:34
And like I hell. And I was going to ask you guys
17:38
because I was like, see if they've I'm going to, I've
17:40
literally the only thought of him as being called Angel.
17:42
But see if they listen to the audio book and he's actually
17:45
ankle. No, it's.
17:47
Angel. It is Angel.
17:49
Thank goodness. But what a like that is one of
17:53
those names. It looks like if you were given
17:55
that name, you were destined for.
17:56
Yeah. It's like Princess or something,
17:59
you know, it's. Yeah, like, so I was kind of
18:02
thinking when I started reading it, because they talk about in
18:06
the 1st and I'm talking like the first 2 pages, they talk about
18:09
Angel's kind of former life, his life in Ireland.
18:12
And he, he has no parents. His aunt dies and leaves him a
18:16
lot of money and he's kind of a student, but he's not taking
18:18
this student stuff very seriously.
18:22
And he's, I thought it was kind of interesting because they
18:25
don't, there's no real depth to his beliefs, but he's, they're
18:29
strong enough that he wants to go to the new world and start a
18:32
colony, but you don't. I thought it was kind of kind of
18:36
a really interesting thing that the author did in the sense of
18:38
like, you can almost give him whatever you would like to give
18:44
him. He can, but.
18:45
But I think the whole point is he the first part of the the
18:49
book is like very straightforward to the point.
18:52
Like it's a classic story. And I think we're supposed to
18:54
view this like escapee and I was very clean and like fun, you
18:59
know? And it's like, yeah.
19:00
But then we actually find out the horrors and stuff that are
19:03
involved in like colonial, like colonialization.
19:07
He's basically a summary of being rich and young and dumb.
19:15
He's he's got money and he doesn't know what to do with it.
19:20
And he doesn't have any other responsibilities.
19:22
He doesn't have any family that that he has to like to guide him
19:28
or, or anything. And so he's young, white male
19:33
and like, you know, he's got that privilege of so many
19:37
different things. And I think he's basically
19:41
representing all of those things.
19:43
Well, something I was kind of like wondering if you guys were
19:46
thinking about it when I was reading it.
19:47
But so it takes place, it says, I don't know if it says anywhere
19:51
in the actual book, but it says in the dust cover, it says that
19:55
it takes place at the end of the 18th century.
19:59
So in my head I was trying to figure out because he went to
20:04
University of Dublin, which I'm pretty sure University College
20:07
of Dublin, which I think is just Trinity.
20:10
And I was kind of thinking Angel Kelly and is he supposed to be
20:17
Catholic or how is this working with someone who's studying at
20:20
the time? And this is very much like
20:23
United Irishman time. So revolutionary Ireland is
20:28
probably is, I don't know, anti colonial, as you know.
20:32
And I was kind of like interested in the fact that
20:34
we're introduced very quickly to two Irish characters and like
20:38
what the significance of the fact that these people are going
20:42
over and, you know, and the, the history of Ireland is very
20:46
different from the history of a lot of those other countries
20:49
like that. I mean, I I don't know too much
20:51
about the history of because we're Irish, maybe we know more
20:54
about Ireland, but I was kind of wondering what exactly his
20:59
backwards. We really don't know much about
21:01
his. Back.
21:01
No, it's so, yeah, so little. It's so because I was like, if
21:05
he's, I think, I think Catholics and dissenters were allowed to
21:09
go to university, but I don't think they could get proper
21:12
degrees or there was some, there's a lot of like.
21:15
Yeah, I can't. Any specifics?
21:18
Yeah, there's so much of a background and then I was like,
21:20
I can't be thinking about this too much, but I was kind of
21:23
interested, like if I read it again, would there be things
21:26
that you could pick up about the history of Ireland at the time
21:29
that maybe I think he is by? Absolutely be so by the end, I'm
21:34
pretty sure. Yeah, and also don't doesn't he
21:37
talk to Flores at one point? It's in their conversation where
21:41
they talk about like the religion.
21:45
Well, there's, there's definitely, yeah, there's
21:47
definitely the play where they baptize somebody to Catholicism.
21:51
Yeah, yeah. Definitely, but it interested me
21:55
as well because it was like, you know, not very many people in
22:00
Ireland at the time that were you would have had to have been,
22:03
you know, I'm looking to have real rights.
22:07
Yeah. So it's so interesting to have
22:11
this kind of, and then he's going across.
22:14
It's just so. Well, I guess the other thing is
22:16
too like, while you're saying like, yeah, you had to be
22:19
Anglican to have rights, I think also money.
22:21
Like there was a lot of people who profited, if they were from,
22:25
you know, of a wealthy family, they could bypass those those
22:28
restrictions that that other other people couldn't.
22:31
And I think that's the thing like he just luckily is given
22:34
like wads of money to go do whatever and it's his ignorance
22:38
really. Like stuff is happening at home.
22:40
Like he would have experienced colonialization and then going
22:43
off with this like vague is he pro or or anti colonial?
22:48
I'm not sure. I think, I think he's conflicted
22:52
and I think that he hasn't actually sat down with himself
22:55
and figured out where he's. Young.
22:59
Yes, because. It's interesting the way we
23:02
don't know that to begin with because we don't know if he's
23:05
been really well schooled on anything.
23:07
We don't know. None of those details are given.
23:10
Yeah, usually an author would be like, he's really naive and it's
23:13
like he's spelled. Yeah, the idea that he's naive
23:16
because of what he's doing. But you, it does as you said,
23:19
aren't it? Like it's almost like you're
23:21
like, oh, he's done this, he's done that.
23:23
And it's like, see, when he gets on the boat, I felt really
23:27
anxious for him because I was like.
23:29
He's going to get eaten off. He's no idea what he's doing.
23:33
He was drunk when he got on board.
23:34
Yeah, he. Knows nothing about what's going
23:37
to. Happen because he discovers it's
23:38
like a slave, a slave ship, like there's slaves in the in the
23:41
bottom of the ship and he's like distraught and he's like, I
23:43
didn't know. And it's like, what do you mean
23:45
you didn't know? Like if you think about this,
23:47
what else is it about doing? This is what I was going to get
23:50
into, where he seems so dead set against slavery and he thinks it
23:57
is morally terrible and he can't stand the fact that he
24:03
accidentally boarded and paid a fare on a slave ship.
24:07
But at the same time, his whole intention of going to Brazil is
24:12
so he can colonize it and. But I think, but this is The
24:15
thing is he trying to create like the dust cover says Utopia,
24:19
like he's trying to create. But I'd never actually said, but
24:22
maybe if we go with the dust that like what the book says,
24:25
because I guess that's what the author was intending.
24:27
So maybe he did have good intentions of it.
24:30
You know, like he had clearly demonstrated those that morality
24:33
of like, I'm against the boat having these slaves.
24:36
And then like, yeah, that kind of kicks everything off because
24:39
the slaves then are they have like an uprising on the boat to
24:43
try and like, you know, escape. I I think one of the most so a
24:49
really interesting character in the first part.
24:52
So the land and sea part is the the second mate come Camacho.
24:57
I thought that like I thought that heart character was so
25:01
horrifying. So he's like he's the second
25:04
mate and he everyone likes him. Everyone gets on with him.
25:07
He's very friendly. But he's the Brazilian.
25:10
No, no, that's the first mate. Oh, Aaron, come on, come on.
25:14
I. Know, I know.
25:16
There's only about 300 characters.
25:18
You're OK. Come on.
25:22
But he's like the second mate and you kind of he's talking
25:25
about how much everyone likes him and that's how he's got
25:27
respect and all this stuff. And then there's all this stuff
25:30
happening. So obviously we kind of know
25:32
that there's there's slaves that are shackled at the bottom of
25:36
the boat, like the IT doesn't really go actually into that
25:39
much detail about them. But the idea is just of the
25:42
whole thing is just so horrific. But he knows that there's people
25:47
going below deck and this is some maybe where I'm a bit
25:50
confused as to exactly what the timeline of everything is.
25:53
But he knows there's a lot going on the he's and you're just so
25:56
confused with them at most of the time.
25:59
But there's a part where Camacho goes into his room or can't
26:02
remember. They have a conversation and
26:04
he's basically explaining in like quite jolly terms about how
26:10
they are going below deck and raping the slave women.
26:14
So like I was kind of stopped back because he the way and and
26:18
Austin Fagan is just giving no extra weight to this.
26:21
And the character is giving no extra weight to this.
26:23
And he just describes it. And I remember reading it and
26:26
being like, I can't like that's it's just so sickening.
26:30
But this character that's kind of built, not built up too much
26:33
because there's not much, but I don't know, I just thought it
26:36
was really. Yeah, it's very by the by, like
26:39
the thing, you know. Yeah, because they do just drop
26:40
it and you're like, excuse me, what?
26:43
And then like, and because they're trying to get him
26:45
involved in it like they're they're, you know, that's pretty
26:47
much what they're trying to sell it in a way.
26:49
And it's do you know? And then that's what makes me
26:51
like this is this is what's going on.
26:54
Well, I have to admit I missed that here.
26:58
We go see. See the OK, this is something
27:01
that I miss that is clearly important, but I knew that there
27:05
was five of them going down and they needed a 6th man and but I
27:11
was under the impression that they were going down to look
27:19
after these. You could be right.
27:22
No, I could be. I think I think I'm wrong.
27:25
I think I missed it because if you both interpreted it that
27:27
way, I thought these that these people were going down to look
27:32
after the slaves. Well, I didn't think he is.
27:34
I think it's coded and that he's not directly saying this, but
27:36
he's saying. That.
27:38
But Aaron, Aaron, I think, I think you could, you could well
27:42
be just as right as we are. Yeah, you could.
27:44
Yeah, even I was saying that I didn't do if I had the
27:46
confidence. But I think though there's
27:50
definitely something weird going on with those five men.
27:52
I actually meant to reread that bit again because it was
27:55
something that I was in my head. I was like, what exactly is
27:59
going on here? But yeah, no, you could, you
28:02
could. I knew that there were people
28:03
going down to like look after them.
28:06
Well, I know that I think it was implied that those people are
28:09
going down to also quell whatever, like aggression was
28:12
going on. But I think it's that aggression
28:14
was caused because like, I think they wanted to not indoctrinate,
28:17
but what's the word? They wanted to ingratiate
28:20
themselves with the angels. So by being like, oh, you can
28:23
also go down and take part in this thing.
28:27
Do you know? I think you.
28:28
Just didn't want to get involved, right?
28:31
I think he doesn't know what's going on.
28:32
Yeah, and I think that's the transits to the reader, then
28:34
we're like, what? Yeah, we're a staring blank
28:37
face. Like what's going on?
28:39
Because Angel doesn't know. Yeah, also, and can we just say
28:44
because I, I don't know if anyone listening has actually
28:47
read this book and because nobody shared their thoughts
28:50
this week and. Boo listening.
28:55
Yeah, well, hopefully, but I think that the first chunk of
29:05
his journey, Angel is terribly seasick.
29:09
So he does not leave his cabin and does not know what's going
29:13
on. So that's why we end up in the
29:17
middle of this where we don't really know what's been
29:19
happening because we've missed. He's missed the whole fact that
29:22
the the ship stopped and took on a whole bunch of slaves.
29:26
It's only way later into the journey that that he actually
29:30
finds all this out. So that's why he's lost as to
29:34
what's happening and that's why we are also lost.
29:37
I think the only thing that the reader really gets about the
29:40
fact that there might be slaves is that there's a lot of moaning
29:42
going on, which I kind of was like you could interpret that
29:45
as. However you want, yeah.
29:47
Wasn't and. And I think there's almost like
29:50
a spiritual, like a ghostly sort of vibe to it as well.
29:52
Like. I think it's like, is he
29:54
imagining it like these, these Wheeling on sea or whatever?
29:57
Especially with his sickness and he seems to be having a lot of.
30:01
Visions or. Hallucinations.
30:03
There is a lot of confusing aspects where not everything is
30:08
spelt out for us and us as modern readers.
30:12
Or maybe a little bit confused as to some of the characters
30:16
origins and you are left questioning some things.
30:20
Well, I think as well, it's not even just they're they are kind
30:23
of. He does tell you what's
30:25
happened, but it's like something else happens in the
30:28
next. In the next.
30:29
Step your. Your memory goes very quickly
30:33
and so it's like when I look back I can't remember him being
30:37
introduced with. His.
30:38
Islamic name, but it's right there in the page.
30:41
And literally you overlook at it.
30:43
It's because, like you were saying earlier, you see like
30:46
everything is given the same weight no matter character
30:48
introductions, small details and then big plot like events,
30:52
they're all given the same neutrality of like importance.
30:56
And then that I think makes you forget because it's not like
30:59
with a character introduction, you should remember that kind of
31:02
thing. Like, that's a big, big first
31:05
impression, you know? I realized I need to write these
31:09
all all these characters down because I was like I'm the.
31:11
Source. I'm not the source.
31:13
I feel like when I was being introduced to them, especially
31:14
the crew, I was like this, this crew member is not going to
31:16
matter. And it's like you have on even
31:19
up until the very end, you're being introduced to characters
31:22
that matter. Yeah.
31:24
You know, and to be honest, I think something that's actually
31:26
incredible as an author for Austin Fagan to have done is to
31:33
to be able to do that to have characters introduced near the
31:35
end or like throughout the book, risky movie.
31:39
And they but they're so they're so alive.
31:42
They're so they're brilliant. Character.
31:44
They do feel different. Yeah, they feel like different
31:47
people. They feel.
31:48
And you're you're OK with the fact that they've just been
31:51
introduced. I think if someone told you, oh,
31:53
a really important to the plot person is going to be
31:55
introduced, you know, 50 pages before the end, you'd be like,
31:58
that's just so contrived or there'd be some, but he
32:01
everything I've I kind of was like if someone explained this
32:04
book to me, I'd be like, that sounds it doesn't sound great,
32:07
but he gets away with so many things like he's he's able to do
32:11
it. Yeah, it reminds me of him, like
32:15
the whole the way we're talking about it being an epic reminds
32:17
me of the Iliad or something like that where me and like they
32:21
never explains who these characters are in those epic
32:23
poems. They but they are like, they all
32:26
have their impact and, and you get small details, but again,
32:30
they're supposed to all feel alive and separate from each
32:32
other. And you're supposed to remember
32:33
300 people's names, you know, and how they all impact
32:36
everything. Do you think in the future Angel
32:38
will be remembered like Odysseus?
32:40
Oh, I could see that. That.
32:42
Would be James Joyce. Flores is the Achilles.
32:47
Yeah, I feel like every part of this, talking about every part
32:52
of this book is a spoiler because.
32:53
It is. And do you know what?
32:56
It's also not a spoiler because like, so much happens.
33:01
You know. It couldn't spoil it.
33:04
There wouldn't be enough time. Exactly.
33:06
I find it quite strange like the way Ashen wrote like coming from
33:09
like obviously reading a lot of books and then like even writing
33:12
it's so risky having more than one point of view in this kind
33:15
of like story. And it's like described as Angel
33:18
being the protagonist. At least that's what you think
33:20
in the first part, But then it isn't really about Angel at all.
33:24
Like it's, it's more about the the this like movement of people
33:28
and they all interact and the violence and all these different
33:32
things, which is so interesting. And like that could have he
33:34
could have fallen flat, completely flat.
33:37
But this but I somehow he has managed to land are still are
33:41
like I was going to land the ship, like land a plane, but I'm
33:44
trying to think of a nautical term.
33:46
He's he's. Piloted it.
33:48
He's piloted. The ship, yes, there's a part,
33:51
and again, I didn't really understand this kind of just
33:56
happened, but they talked about it as though this had already
33:59
been discussed. So I could have missed the start
34:02
of this part, but they're being followed or pursued by another
34:06
ship and. I've completely forgotten about.
34:09
That are they? They're thrown into the water,
34:11
but I don't remember. No, no, that's during the
34:13
slaver. That's during the.
34:15
No, no, no, no. Before that, when they're thrown
34:17
into the water and Jack is pulled out where the jellyfish
34:20
in his thrown. Angels thrown in as well because
34:23
your man's like. To learn how to swim.
34:25
Yeah. I don't remember that.
34:27
Oh God, we're all coming with different.
34:29
Yeah. That's the thing, there's so
34:31
much stuff to me that was a hissing, but I don't know why
34:35
and I could be completely. Oh yeah, no, they're doing that.
34:38
Yes, they're getting the sea. They the sea has to if it's your
34:41
first passage on a ship, they need to prove to this that the
34:44
sea like bad luck. If you haven't been like, I
34:47
guess baptized in a way by by the the sea sink or swim, you
34:51
know? I think the sea part is the bit
34:54
I remember laced. Of all this?
34:56
Like it's, it's just. It's a part I remember most,
34:59
which is very strange because it's the last, the first thing
35:02
we read. Yes, it's I'm in the same boat
35:04
as you. Call in.
35:05
Oh, are we the jolly Jenkins? I just think that so, so much
35:11
happens in like the SEC, so much happens in the second part,
35:15
yeah. Kind of makes you forget.
35:18
Yeah, so much happens in the second.
35:20
Part, right? So we get on to the second part.
35:22
As far as we know, all these people are gone, dead, drowned
35:25
in the waters, and we just follow Angel and Flores.
35:31
Flores who? Find the sandbar.
35:36
They are. Skipped and they walk he walks
35:40
with Flores and drags him onto the beach or in not onto the
35:45
beach into the the jungle and and they are saved by a little
35:52
native girl, Isa. Is that how you pronounce that?
35:55
Isa, yeah. Isa, yeah, Isa is a great
35:58
character and she's actually kind of threw out from she
36:01
starts off. She's the main character.
36:04
And. Pretty much she's.
36:06
Throughout it, she is actually one of the ones, though she's
36:08
not in the first whole section, she's actually 1 character that
36:13
we kind of stick with to an extent.
36:15
True, she also seems like one of the least important when they're
36:18
introducing her. Then she becomes much more like.
36:21
Integral I I actually overlooked her until she was just there and
36:27
I was like, how? Who is she and how did she get
36:30
here? It was only the point.
36:32
Every character done. Yes, well, it was only the point
36:37
in which they were talking about how she was quarantined with
36:39
them. And I was like, who is she?
36:41
Why are they quarantining this native girl?
36:44
And then they said something like, oh, well, she's the one
36:47
who's been looking after us and she's the one who found us.
36:49
And I was like, I don't remember any of that happening.
36:53
And but I also from her I got vibes of Sacagawea and and like
37:01
Louis. Think about this period of
37:03
history in America. So which I know isn't her actual
37:08
like that's the like white people like pronunciation of her
37:12
name. And I know that I've got it
37:13
wrong and but I can't remember how to actually pronounce her
37:17
name. So I apologize for
37:19
mispronouncing it or pronouncing it the white way, but she
37:24
basically was the like navigator or tour guide for Lewis and
37:33
Clark. And I just she, her role with
37:41
Angel and Flores felt very much inspired by that.
37:46
But I'm not a professional on Lewis and Clark or Sacagawea,
37:51
but I that's just the vibes that I was getting.
37:54
I mean, they're, they're the question.
37:56
They're like, why is this woman also like there's something
38:00
wrong with her. That's what they think.
38:02
They're like she's done something like she's a pariah as
38:05
well as them in this like. Nearly community when she's kind
38:09
of introduced, she stays with them and they think she's
38:12
quarantined with them and no, no one in the village is speaking
38:15
to her. Yeah, she does things like.
38:17
So they describe her dancing with the villagers.
38:19
Yeah. No one thinks you're.
38:20
No one acknowledges her. And it's so strange, as you're
38:23
reading it, you're just like. You have to roll with it because
38:26
there's. So much other stuff happening
38:28
and Flores is like trying to learn the language.
38:31
And I feel like there's a real transference in naivety between
38:36
Angel and Flores, between these two parts because it's like on
38:40
the boat, you're like, Angel is just so naive and Flores is
38:43
quite like, I know what's happening and he's quite, what's
38:47
the word like? He seems like he knows
38:50
everything and he's. He's almost like a mentor on the
38:54
ship. Yeah.
38:55
And then? He loses that.
38:57
Yeah, and Flores is very naive on land and.
39:00
Emotional. Almost.
39:02
Yeah. He'll just lose his mother, so I
39:05
think he's very impacted. By that but yeah, definitely and
39:09
it's like Angel then just goes to being like I don't want to be
39:11
here anymore I'm here I want to find the most western place that
39:15
I can find here and like go like he it's funny obviously because
39:21
he's introduced as a character he's wanting to start this
39:23
commune in the middle of Brazil, but he's like the minute he gets
39:25
there he's like Nope, I'm not interacting with me at all but
39:29
then Flores is his exact opposite and he's like he's like
39:33
oh I'm going to learn the language because they don't
39:35
understand what I'm saying and and it's.
39:37
Like. One of the funny parts of that,
39:38
then, is that they do fully understand Spanish.
39:41
Yeah, but it's only later on that they.
39:44
Spanish. Or yeah, no, it's.
39:46
Yeah, well, they understand Latin languages, so they
39:49
understand when he speaks Spanish, but he's never bothered
39:51
to try and speak Spanish to this place that has been colonized
39:54
for however. Long.
39:55
Yeah, it's so funny. So like, well, they should have
40:00
realized that these people do know a certain amount of like
40:08
have been impacted by colonialism because even though
40:10
they are native and they seem very separate from anything else
40:15
that is happening in terms of European colonialization, they.
40:22
Have quarantined these two. Or at least this is how Angel
40:26
and Flores are LED. This is what they believe is
40:29
they've been quarantined so they don't spread diseases to the
40:33
natives and they're only allowed to interact with the children
40:36
because the children have better immune systems.
40:40
Yeah, I think that's what that's what Angel and Flores think is
40:43
going on. Yes, very much so.
40:46
So they should have realized that they that these people have
40:50
been exposed to colonizers and might understand the language of
40:56
the colonizers. I think, yeah, you definitely
40:58
get the feeling that Angel wouldn't know that because he
41:00
doesn't seem like he knows anything.
41:02
But Flores seems like a man of the world.
41:03
Flores seems like he's researched things.
41:06
You would think that and that's, I think that is what makes the
41:09
kind of reveal. And the reveal happens way
41:11
later. So much later where you're like,
41:13
watch later. Yeah.
41:15
It's like you're sure he's just like, oh, they, they do
41:19
understand a language that I also speak, but he's so busy,
41:23
like trying to work out like vague words that they use.
41:27
Parrots keep showing up, but they just call them pigeons.
41:31
I assume they're parrots because they're on the ship and he calls
41:35
it. He talks about how colorful they
41:37
are. No, they're probably pigeons.
41:40
Well, I know that it would make sense to use them as homing
41:42
pigeons to, like, send letters, yeah.
41:44
Yeah, they have pigeons. They have pigeons on boats.
41:46
But they. 'D be colorful, but they.
41:48
Pigeons are colorful. Are they?
41:50
Yeah, yeah. Yeah, have you never seen a
41:52
pigeon of toasted like purple and and orange and blue?
41:57
OK, I wouldn't describe pigeons as colorful, but OK, never mind.
42:00
They're actually beautiful birds.
42:02
I think most people are like, that's disgusting, but they're
42:05
like really, really pretty. Well, they are pretty pretty,
42:07
yeah. There are a lot of birds that
42:10
show up throughout this in multiple different ways.
42:13
And phoenixes seem to be very like come up a lot.
42:19
Like there's a burning bird at one point and this guy Benjamin
42:23
has a phoenix on the top of his. Walking stick.
42:26
You're right, actually. Yep.
42:30
I don't remember the burning bird, but I remember his
42:32
walking. There is a point where there's a
42:34
bird burning and then somebody's like, oh, it's a phoenix.
42:37
Yes, OK. But it like dies immediately or
42:41
something. And.
42:42
That Phoenix is only live for. Like yeah, like we're all
42:44
remembering different details, but like, add to the whole
42:48
picture. This is a this what I mean.
42:51
It's such a such. Sprawling.
42:54
It's a deep book. Well.
42:57
OK, so we've talked about birds before in under the Eye of the
43:00
big Bird and how it can often refer to like the overall
43:06
picture, like being watched from like a higher point, like bird's
43:09
eye view. And and it can also represent
43:12
freedom. I think it could represent
43:14
freedom here because they're going to the new land and
43:17
there's slavery and I don't want to spend too long just talking
43:21
about birds. But in terms of the phoenix
43:24
imagery, I think a lot of that is important here because it is
43:30
burning away like the your previous thoughts or your
43:35
previous life and like colonialization and all of that.
43:41
I think that that's maybe why phoenixes are used a lot
43:44
throughout this. And but yeah, I'm sorry, move on
43:48
from the. No, no, no, this is just my
43:50
ignorance of I I remember the pigeons that start I do your
43:55
story about the phoenix. The bird burning is familiar,
43:59
but I'm like I can't work out the details that happened around
44:03
it. The Benjamin family have been
44:04
introduced as the owners of the boat that that Angel and Flores
44:08
have come over in. So they're very much involved in
44:10
the slave trade. And they also have a lot of
44:14
Chinese workers. And they specifically want this
44:17
time because they know that it actually the the soil is very
44:21
fertile. So they want to actually take
44:24
the soil back to Europe and they want to sell it.
44:28
And which is a confusing idea, but I think it's a lot of it is
44:32
kind of like, I think there's probably a lot that Austin's
44:36
trying to say about the relationship between Europe and
44:38
the new world and it's codependency and how you almost
44:42
feel like although this is the new world and everyone's free,
44:46
it's like it's still got like, so Angel's idea of coming over
44:50
and being free from the like, from free from European things
44:56
is very much not free from European things.
44:59
Spanish Connelly, the Spanish colonists and British colonists
45:04
and very much the the Benjamins, I think are are just like the
45:08
heart of capitalism and all of the bad.
45:13
I'm not the best political person here, but all of the
45:16
worst aspects of capitalism are, I think, in these brothers,
45:22
Chuck and Osgood, and because they are playing the system and
45:28
they are trying to get as much as they can from this land.
45:32
And just what you're saying about the fertility of the soil.
45:37
So it's the guano from the bats, another flying creature.
45:43
So the the guano is what they want.
45:46
Yeah, they want to mine it. They keep saying mine and I'm
45:48
like what do you mean by mine? Yeah.
45:50
But then they do specify, yes. Just you don't need to actually
45:54
go mining. You just have to shovel it off.
45:56
And so I think the symbolism is taking the fertile with the
46:01
fertile nature of the Americas or South America and corrupting
46:10
it are. Yeah, you're actually taking the
46:14
land to. Revive to revive.
46:19
Europe, Europe and you're literally taking the land of
46:22
South America and it is physically bring brought back to
46:26
to Europe and it's just basically spelling out for you.
46:32
This is what is happening. Europe is taking the land of
46:36
South America and I think it is taking all of its and
46:41
possibility and freedom and fertility.
46:44
And one of the parts that I think was written very well, one
46:47
of the themes was violence and especially injuries and how gory
46:53
they were. There was the part where the
46:57
eyeball was cut out, which was horrific.
47:02
And there was a part where somebody, I can't even remember
47:05
who, who got this injury, but and they were like kicked in the
47:09
face or something and they felt clicking every time they would
47:14
like run around, they heard, they heard a click in their
47:17
head. I'm pretty sure that happened to
47:20
possibly a few characters, but Lewin definitely had some head
47:23
injuries and his hand. The koi stepped on his hand.
47:27
I wonder, I don't know if you guys are offered, but I wonder
47:31
if down the line we could do a reread and another discussion of
47:35
this book. Something I think that we could
47:38
definitely do is we could read it in sections and maybe do like
47:43
short things about it. Because I, I, I think it's such
47:48
a hard book to discuss like this.
47:50
Like it's, I was reading something about there is like a
47:54
book club that spent like 30 something years reading
47:56
Finnegan's Wake by James Joyce. I was like, you could do this
47:59
with this book, spent years reading this.
48:04
Maybe that's the Irish thing that we just all like.
48:07
To. Write.
48:07
Complex stuff, but he's yeah, it is.
48:12
It's so dense. I think we could as shorter
48:16
sections, we could maybe go through all the the four main
48:21
parts. If any of our listeners out
48:24
there do want to read along and do want to share their thoughts,
48:27
I think it would be very digestible and it would be
48:30
really good for conversation if we break it down into part by
48:34
part. We could do an Eden Shore.
48:35
Read along where every two weeks we read a different section and
48:41
we discuss it. I don't even think we've
48:44
scratched the surface of this and I also.
48:46
Agree. How, How on earth do you like
48:50
bottle it, you know? I definitely wouldn't recommend
48:53
this book to everyone because I think it is such a you you have
48:57
to put the time in. You have to put like there's
48:59
there was so much I I have to say I think it was an excellent
49:03
book because it it made me want to read it again.
49:06
It made me want to to understand it and not from it because I
49:10
think I've read books. So I don't know if you guys have
49:12
ever heard. There's this book called SI
49:15
think it's called S. Oh yeah by Doug Dorst.
49:18
Yeah, and JJ Abrams. Yeah, which is actually very
49:21
similar in terms of like theming to this.
49:23
Like it's, you know, a piratey sort of adventure.
49:26
But I have you read it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
49:29
I hated it. But it's such hard work.
49:32
You're reading different, like there's four stories within,
49:36
like the one story happening at the same time.
49:38
And you have to like read it and understand all four threads.
49:41
This is the thing, but I just thought all four of them were
49:43
boring. So I was like, I know I don't
49:46
want to put the effort into something that I'm not getting a
49:49
return on. Whereas I felt very quickly
49:51
effort that I was putting in, I was getting a return from.
49:55
I was like, oh, that's that character.
49:57
And the interesting thing is that, yeah, S was made as an
50:00
actual like a black box and book.
50:03
It's by JJ Abrams as well. He helped to produce it.
50:06
And it's a whole, like his whole thing is like the black box and
50:09
like the, the, the point of a mystery is the not knowing and
50:12
the guessing about what's inside the black box.
50:14
So that's what that book is about.
50:16
It's it's like a puzzle that you're trying to solve, whereas
50:19
this is a much more natural like it's puzzling.
50:22
Yeah. But it's not a puzzle.
50:24
Yeah, there's like depth and interpretation to it that that
50:28
is that that S doesn't have. I thought S was just puzzling
50:32
for the sake of puzzling. In my head, I was like, which is
50:34
this is a different audience. I'm Yeah.
50:37
Like, whereas this was excellently written, excellent
50:40
characters, but it was not simple.
50:44
Yeah, I will say that my criticism of this book is the
50:50
part that I didn't like. And I know we have kind of
50:53
discussed this off in POD as well.
50:57
The way the dialogue for the non-english speakers are for the
51:03
characters that English is in their first language.
51:05
So especially for the crew members, it did not feel
51:09
natural. It did not feel like it was how
51:13
Spanish or Portuguese, like Brazilian Portuguese people, how
51:20
they would speak our French people.
51:23
Even like just the delivery. It didn't make sense, it didn't
51:28
flow. And even I thought listening to
51:30
the audiobook, hearing the accents would make it seem a bit
51:34
more realistic, no? What was that like?
51:39
It was good to hear the accents, but I was just like, this is not
51:42
how a French person speaks English when they don't.
51:45
Really know how to speak English this is the thing where I don't
51:47
want to be too critical on him because I mean I'm this is the
51:50
imposition he is I'm obviously don't speak any other languages
51:53
or anything but was something I was kind of like.
51:56
Do we know what a 1700s Brazilian sailor sounded like?
52:01
Because we. Don't.
52:02
But I just. I would still imagine that it
52:06
would be similar to how Spanish speakers speak English.
52:11
No, it is and it is not like that.
52:14
At least not from the people who Spanish is their first language
52:18
speak English. To me, that is not how they
52:21
deliver it. I have to agree with you.
52:23
I do think it, it made the first part quite difficult because I
52:27
think at the end it's almost like sometimes they there's just
52:29
phrases in Spanish, which is a lot easier to read.
52:33
Yes. And have the broken English and
52:36
the letters I found were kind of confusingly written in English
52:42
and they had kind of Spanish punctuation and stuff like that.
52:45
A lot of the exposition is from those characters.
52:49
And I think a lot of the confusing elements are from the
52:52
fact that they are not speaking English as a first language.
52:54
And there is a definite like as angels hearing this, the person
52:59
that's saying these things to him isn't making much sense in
53:03
English. So it means that we don't know
53:06
what's happening. And it may be if they were able
53:08
to communicate with him in perfect English or there would
53:12
be less mystery in those early parts.
53:14
Because I definitely think it was being used as a device for
53:17
us not to know what was happening.
53:20
And I, I think if they, if he'd have made this person speak
53:24
perfect English or even like a better version of because I got
53:29
the feeling as well. It wasn't that it was broken
53:31
English. It was this person does not
53:33
speak English, has about 100 words less than possibly.
53:39
So they're English. It's not, it's not that it's a
53:43
second language. It's not a second language.
53:46
They only have a couple of words that they're trying to combine
53:49
together. I get that.
53:50
I don't know. I just, I didn't seem believable
53:53
to me and the, the dialogue for those characters and I just
53:58
thought it was very difficult to follow because it just did not
54:02
feel realistic at all. And but aside from that, I loved
54:08
this book and I think this is an absolutely amazing book.
54:11
Do we want to rate it out of five?
54:14
Obviously through this conversation you can see that we
54:16
are all of all of it over the place.
54:18
They're bits that we've clearly remembered over other people.
54:20
I enjoyed it and I really enjoyed the conversation and I
54:24
think I need to give it a read through really to fully get it.
54:28
But I did like the writing and I liked the world that was being
54:31
explored and those themes and the different characters and too
54:34
many characters I think, which kind of pulled it down a bit.
54:36
It's a little too heavy on that and I think I would give it a
54:40
four out of five. I think it was like a very, very
54:42
well done. It's maybe it's too big at
54:45
times, but it was still enjoyable.
54:48
I think in fact that score could go up if I read it like another
54:52
time. I'm actually probably just going
54:56
to exactly go Collins. And so I'm I'm a four at the
55:00
moment, but I I think on another read, I imagine this is it's so
55:05
layered. There's so much complexity to
55:08
it, but I think that it's so hard to write a story with
55:11
layers and complexity. It still draws you in so much
55:15
and the characters are just so amazing.
55:17
The reason I'm giving it a four is because like, I feel like,
55:20
did I understand it not 100%? And I feel like maybe you know,
55:25
if I reread it and I found that actually I thought it's quite
55:28
obvious and a bit the themes weren't great.
55:31
It's like I almost feel like I'm, I can't give it a higher
55:34
rating because I didn't fully understand it.
55:37
And I think maybe at the start I found it a bit hard to really
55:39
get into. It took me a while and maybe
55:42
that was quite difficult. I thought the play stuff was
55:46
well done, but it was really out there and I was kind of a bit
55:49
like, would would this play be written?
55:51
I don't know enough about 1700s plays, but I'm imagining it's
55:54
very like that kind of style. And I I would counter Collins
56:00
point about the characters. I loved them all.
56:03
It was like some of these people are mentioned one time, one
56:06
place, and then like 2 months to two months later to like like
56:11
200 pages later you're reading about them again and you're
56:14
like, I, I, I just, I don't understand how he's been able to
56:18
make all these characters come to life so much.
56:20
And I think that's such a testament to him as a writer.
56:22
Like a really, really good book. And I was expecting not to like
56:26
it because I really wanted because Hannah's always slagging
56:28
me off about how I, I like books too often.
56:31
I was like, so prepared after I read the first bit, I was like,
56:33
this is too much. This book is too much.
56:36
I can't deal with this book. And then eventually I just so
56:39
begrudgingly really started to like it.
56:41
And I was like, I'm going to have to say to everyone that I
56:43
actually think this book. 'S really good, just accept it.
56:46
I have to accept it because I can't, I can't slag it off like
56:49
I really can't. And but yeah, so I'm like a
56:51
four, four to five at the moment.
56:54
This could change. This is actually a first for the
56:58
the podcast where we are all in agreement.
57:00
For me this is. Definitely.
57:02
A four out of five and could easily go up.
57:06
I was thinking while I was reading this that this could be
57:09
my first five, but because I'd missed parts and I didn't fully
57:15
get everything, I can't give it the full 5 until I do a reread
57:22
and see what I actually think of of those parts and those aspects
57:28
that I missed. It's I think this is definitely
57:33
the kind of book that is you will benefit yourself by
57:40
listening to the audiobook and reading along with it at the
57:43
same time. It will help you focus and
57:47
prevent you from missing parts. But, but I think that you do
57:52
have to take it bit by bit and you have to read it or you have
57:55
to play it at regular speed. Don't speed it up like I did
57:59
because you're definitely going to miss aspects.
58:02
You know, three times speed. So moving on from Eden Shore for
58:07
now, we are going to reveal which book one our poll since
58:17
our last episode. So just a reminder, people voted
58:22
in five different ways. There was Twitter, Facebook, the
58:26
Spotify episode, the Instagram post and the Instagram story
58:32
post. So 5 different ways to vote.
58:36
Lucy, would you do us the honors and reveal what percentages each
58:41
book got? I will indeed, Aaron.
58:45
So you in last place, very unfortunate for Hannah and she's
58:49
not here now so she can't react. But she had 11% of the vote so
58:55
she she came in fourth. So we will not be reading
58:57
Search. But I actually did read it last
58:59
week and it's a good book. So maybe give it a read And then
59:05
coming in on 3rd place. Sorry Aaron, but had Tusks of
59:10
Extinction got 13% of the vote for so not much more than
59:14
Hannah's there. Sorry.
59:16
And then this is the big final reveal.
59:19
But in #2 with 32% of the, the vote share was Mother Naked
59:26
Collins, sorry, Collins choice. And then the winner, obviously,
59:33
naturally with 42% of the, the public vote was Glorious
59:39
Exploits. I almost forgot the name of my
59:40
book. That was my, that was my one.
59:44
So in two weeks time we will be reading Glorious Exploits, which
59:47
is a book about the Peloponnesian Wars.
59:51
So very exciting. So we're we're very much going
59:53
with the historical pillaging and plundering, war-torn.
59:59
Epic. Maybe?
1:00:00
Is it another epic? I think it's going to be a
1:00:03
humorous epic. I'm, I'm imagining it's going to
1:00:05
be a lot less dense. OK, fingers crossed because I
1:00:09
don't think you're going to want to edit another another one of
1:00:13
these. But also another book by an
1:00:15
Irish author. I know, I know that's I think
1:00:18
this is as well because I have literally gone on absolute Irish
1:00:23
author binge of buying so many books by Irish authors at the
1:00:28
moment. So I'm see if they don't do well
1:00:30
on the Booker Prize this year I'm absolutely gone.
1:00:33
If there's no Irish authors getting anything, I'm going to
1:00:36
be devastated. Do do you think that Eden Shore
1:00:39
potentially has a prospect of? Well, do you know, so it it's
1:00:45
it's eligible. I would love to see it there
1:00:49
because I think, but I think it's maybe a bit much for the
1:00:53
for the Booker. And I'd be absolutely, I'd be so
1:00:57
happy. But I think I'd be surprised if
1:00:59
it was there. But again, it'd be a very happy
1:01:01
surprise if it was there. OK.
1:01:04
And and just a little reference, I guess linking Eden Shore with
1:01:10
glorious exploits. We do have a little, I don't
1:01:13
know what you call these, but a little shout out from from, yes,
1:01:21
from Ferdia Lennon, who is the author of Glorious Exploits.
1:01:26
So his quote on the front of Eden Shore is wild, dark and
1:01:30
freewheeling. So I just think that's a very
1:01:32
nice little reference. We have one author named on the
1:01:36
front cover of this book as well.
1:01:40
Contingency also wild, dark and freewheeling.
1:01:44
It is all those things I like. I think a lot of author quotes
1:01:48
on books, you're just like, they're just like wild,
1:01:50
exhilarating. And then the books like, OK,
1:01:52
it's a good book, but it's not wild or exhilarating.
1:01:55
This is like wild, dark and freewheeling.
1:01:56
It's very freewheeling. It's very wild and it's very
1:02:00
dark. So we're like 100% ten out of 10
1:02:02
for that. Ferdia, you were correct there.
1:02:06
And can I also just say that I'm calling Hannah out here in front
1:02:09
of everyone. The reason that my book, The
1:02:13
Tusks of Extinction got so few votes is because Hannah voted
1:02:17
for her own book on all platforms.
1:02:20
And I had to, I had to disqualify all of her votes
1:02:26
because that is an agreement amongst each other that we were
1:02:29
not allowed to vote for our own books.
1:02:33
So Hannah did come down a few a few votes because she's over
1:02:37
here trying to rig elections. I know.
1:02:40
Terrible. You just need to get all of your
1:02:43
family and friends highly involved in rigging your votes.
1:02:47
Don't. Be a regular person, don't do it
1:02:49
yourself. So let's move on to our.
1:02:57
So what What books we're selecting?
1:02:58
Yes, for for the next read. So the four categories are has
1:03:04
been crowned, which is a book that has won an award within the
1:03:09
last year. The next category is Freshly
1:03:13
Bound and a book that has recently been published.
1:03:18
Then we have now renowned a book that has been shortlisted or
1:03:22
long listed for an award. And finally we have been around
1:03:28
just a book that has been sitting on our bookshelf and
1:03:32
we've been wanting to discuss. My book this week is going to
1:03:36
fall into the category of has been crowned and this is a very
1:03:40
recent winner. I am going with the book which
1:03:44
won the Woman's Prize for Fiction and that is The Safe
1:03:50
Keep by Yael van der Wooden. I've probably completely
1:03:58
destroyed her name there so I apologise, but basically it
1:04:02
gives me vibes of Psycho. It's about a woman whose mother
1:04:06
passed away and she keeps her house exactly as her mother left
1:04:11
it. And then she has her brother's
1:04:16
girlfriend comes to visit and there seems to be some romantic
1:04:22
interaction between the two and it just, it seems a little bit
1:04:28
like a psychological intrigue potentially.
1:04:34
I'm I, it's interesting, it's topical.
1:04:38
I think it's definitely worth the discussion.
1:04:41
So if if you want to read a recent award winner, then please
1:04:46
vote for the Safekeep. For freshly bond, this time I am
1:04:50
picking the Hounding by Xenobi Purvis.
1:04:55
It is a it is a historical horror novel or historical
1:05:02
fiction horror novel following they describe it as The Crucible
1:05:07
meets The Virgin Suicides. It's about this little village
1:05:12
in 18th century England and the IT follows this family of
1:05:19
Mansfield's. There's five daughters and the
1:05:21
neighbors believe that these daughters are turning into into
1:05:25
wolves and dogs, that there's some sort of like witchcraft
1:05:29
going on. The town is being harassed by
1:05:32
these by these sisters and all these locals start to like, they
1:05:39
pretty much claim that these these girls are, are witches.
1:05:43
It's a classic kind of idea of like, women facing some sort of,
1:05:50
well, I guess misogyny and blame and scapegoating for different
1:05:55
things. But don't take a fun story.
1:05:57
And we haven't done a horror yet, so that's what I'm putting
1:06:00
out. Also, the cover is beautiful.
1:06:02
My choice is now renowned, which is Confessions by Catherine
1:06:08
Airy, and it has very recently been nominated for the
1:06:12
Waterstones Debut Fiction Prize. It's in the shortlist for that.
1:06:17
I recently bought it in a trip to Trim in County Meath and I
1:06:22
don't know how that's related to anything, but I saw the cover
1:06:26
and it's a it's got a picture of a woman with a cat on it.
1:06:29
And obviously I bought it immediately and it's just a
1:06:32
woman with a kitten. And basically it's about a girl
1:06:37
in September 2001 whose dad goes missing after the World Trade
1:06:42
Center is attacked. She's trying to find her father
1:06:45
but becomes apparent that her her father is no longer with
1:06:49
he's, he's not going to be fined.
1:06:51
And her mum died a long time ago and she has to move to the West
1:06:55
Coast of Ireland or somewhere in Ireland.
1:06:58
I don't know if I've made-up the West Coast, but so she has to go
1:07:01
back to Ireland where her, I think her parents were raised
1:07:03
and just kind of deal with adulthood and stuff like that.
1:07:08
So I actually don't really know what to expect, but I've heard a
1:07:10
lot of really good stuff about it.
1:07:12
And it is Catherine Airy's first novel.
1:07:14
It's actually quite big. I think it's, it's more pages
1:07:17
than anyone that we've read so far, but it's, it's actually
1:07:21
like quite well spaced and the words are very big.
1:07:25
So I actually think we may have read books that are actually
1:07:28
longer than it. But yeah, it's, it's, it looks
1:07:32
good and it's, it seems interesting.
1:07:33
So I'm, I'd be excited to read it.
1:07:36
I'm planning on reading it. So there you have it then.
1:07:39
There's only three books to choose from this this time, so
1:07:45
please vote. We're going to limit the amount
1:07:47
of places that you can vote now. So we're going to scrap Twitter
1:07:51
and we're going to scrap Facebook because there was only
1:07:53
a couple of votes on both of those places.
1:07:56
So please go to Instagram and vote on the post there for which
1:08:03
of these three books you want us to read next.
1:08:06
You can also keep an eye on our story and vote on the story
1:08:12
poll, which will be taking place at a random point over the next
1:08:16
two weeks. And you can also vote on this
1:08:20
Spotify episode. So if you're listening anywhere
1:08:23
that is not Spotify, please head over to Spotify and go to this
1:08:28
episode. If you take a look, there is an
1:08:31
option to vote in the poll. All of these polls will close by
1:08:37
midnight on Friday, Friday the 4th of July, so make sure that
1:08:44
you have cast your vote by the end of Friday, the 4th of July.
1:08:48
You can vote in all three of those places, so the more that
1:08:53
you vote, the more influence you have over what book we're going
1:08:55
to read. If you're interested in Reading
1:08:58
Eden Shore and breaking it down and discussing each part with
1:09:04
us, then please join us. It's definitely one that you can
1:09:08
do on audiobook and if you have a Spotify subscription, I
1:09:12
believe you can listen to the audiobook for free.
1:09:16
So you don't have to spend any extra money to join us on
1:09:21
Reading Eden Shore. If you have a Spotify
1:09:23
subscription, it's available on audiobook and other places that
1:09:27
you can purchase. You can also just buy the book
1:09:29
itself. It's definitely worth the read.
1:09:31
We all clearly loved it. So if you want to be part of the
1:09:36
discussion and break it down a little bit more than reach out,
1:09:42
you can contact us by emailing us.
1:09:46
Our e-mail address is bookiesfavoritebookclub@gmail.com.
1:09:50
It's down in the description below.
1:09:53
You can also get in touch with us on Instagram.
1:09:56
We are bookie's favorite book club, again, just like in the
1:10:00
description down below. And we have good reads, Lucy.
1:10:05
We do indeed, Aaron. We have good reads.
1:10:08
And yeah, we update it when we finish the book when the
1:10:11
episode's out. And I don't know if we'll have
1:10:14
something written about this one that I'm planning on maybe
1:10:17
writing like something short for review.
1:10:20
But as, as I think Aaron, Colin and I all said, like we, we
1:10:25
can't really necessarily stick with our review of four because
1:10:29
we're we, we all feel the need to like read it again.
1:10:33
It was so dense and it was, but it was again, so brilliant.
1:10:35
So it'll I think it'll be an enjoyable second rate.
1:10:38
Well, thank you very much for listening and we hope that you
1:10:42
join the book club and read along with us on our next book.
1:10:46
Again, that's Glorious exploits by Ferdia Lenin.
1:10:50
Bye bye.