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154. Let's Talk Transition with Cindy & Jenifer Sims! · Anything But Routine

• 0:02
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• 0:21
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• 0:48
  Cindy Clough: Well, I am so excited to talk with a friend that I have known for years and a fellow coaching Comrad, and her name is Jennifer Sims. So welcome, Jennifer, I'm glad you're here.
• 1:01
  Jennifer Sims: Thank you, thank you for having me. And, and
• 1:04
  Cindy Clough: we just kind of did this on the fly because we'd been bantering back and forth.
• 1:06
  Cindy Clough: So about coaching and strategies and different things. And Jennifer has a lot of experience she while in college, she danced at the U of M Moorhead. And then she started her career in New London Spicer where she was a cheer dance coach. Then she was assistant coach and Wilmer. Then she became the head coach and Montevideo, and head coach in Austin, maybe I'm wrong on head coach, I don't know, from 99 to 2000. And then again, from 2002 to 2013. And presently she's at Albert Lee. And basically, you've moved around a lot because of your husband's job, correct?
• 1:50
  Jennifer Sims: Yeah, in my earlier coaching years, he works for Hormel Foods. And earlier in his career, he was moved, every seemed like, it seemed like every other year, but it wasn't quite
• 2:04
  Cindy Clough: that often. Not quite that often. Yeah. But I think it's neat that you found coaching opportunities everywhere you went, because it's in your blood, and it's what you like to do?
• 2:15
  Jennifer Sims: Absolutely. Yeah, everywhere we've been, I've been able to get involved in some way.
• 2:20
  Cindy Clough: Okay, so I think that's really neat. So it shows that you really have that passion and you love working with kids. And and you just got to do it wherever you are, you know, exactly. That's cool. But I when thinking of one of the things I get asked really often at camp and and on our Facebook is new coaches, how do you get the kids to accept you, and I thought you'd be a great person, since you've moved so much and have have that experience. And, you know, it's weird, because I've been at the same place forever. And so I'm the opposite of you. I've coached in the same town since I started, which is I don't even want to say how long.
• 2:57
  Cindy Clough: But you know, I look at a lot of new coaches, when they take over teams, I kind of compare it to a parent, that's maybe a step parent of kids that it takes a while for the, you know, maybe they've had, they had a divorce in their family, and they have a new mom or a new dad, and it takes a while to trust. And I also kind of, you know, even like a foster child who has been moved from home to home, you know, some of these teams have no consistency in coaching, because people haven't stayed around. And then sometimes you've take the place of somebody who's been really great. And that would be hard to you know, both situations are hard. So I just wanted to talk about, so what do you feel have been your biggest challenges when you go into a new school?
• 3:47
  Jennifer Sims: Well, I think you, you have to evaluate what the culture is, or what the history of the team is, I feel like you have to take an immediate interest in who they are as a team. And, you know, when you're walking in, you're the new person. And you might have goals and, and expectations for your team. But you also have to recognize that they have a history you weren't a part of.
• 4:14
  Jennifer Sims: And so you can't disregard where they've been.
• 4:20
  Cindy Clough: Exactly. That's good. You know, that's when I met camp and I'm talking to new, you know, people taking over new teams, one of the things I talk about is, you know, you have to listen, you know, I always think it's great to go out to lunch with the leaders or the seniors, the people that will be seniors because they're going to be your biggest, you know, either advocates or hard people to pull into your circle you know, so I think one of the big things is what asking them what do you love about your culture right now? What is something that we have to continue to do? So that you know you get them on your side mark and and just say what is something you want to see change? changed, right? Because I mean, every team could always say something they want to see change, even if they had a great leader the year before, you know. So how have you had? I mean, maybe just share how you went about getting them on your side or getting? And it might take more than a couple years, right? Sure.
• 5:20
  Jennifer Sims: Yes, absolutely.
• 5:20
  Jennifer Sims: Yeah, I think you have to value where they've been, but then and that you kind of phrased it, it, it's the same thing, but you phrased it a little bit differently, I think it's important to keep their traditions alive. So if there's something that they do as a team, and it's what has helped them stay connected, or it has helped to build their unity within the team, you don't want to disregard those types of things, you might have your own ideas for things to add in. But they want to remain who they are. And they want a respect for, for what they've been through positive or negative.
• 5:57
  Jennifer Sims: And so I think keeping those traditions alive is key, and also assuring them that, you know, for me being in a variety of places, I work really hard, I can't compare one program to another, I mean, the dancers are the same, they just, they just want to dance, they want to, they want to be a part of something bigger than they could be as an individual. They want to be the best they can be. And it really doesn't matter what Jimmy walk into, you know, the overall feeling is can we trust you? Will you help us to reach our goals? Do you care about us?
• 6:38
  Jennifer Sims: You know, those are the types of things they're wondering. And so I try to do my best to show them who I am. And that I'm respectful of who they are. And I'm the new one. And
• 6:55
  Cindy Clough: that's so smart, because you don't want to go in and change everything they've been doing. I mean that I've had that happen with coaches at camp and I'll be like, Oh, no, no, no, no, you can't go in and say, we're doing it this way. I'm changing everything, because immediately they're going to dig in their heels and or claws. Are and you're going to be that one on the outside. So I think your your approach of going I'm the new one, you know, helped me understand how you want it done.
• 7:21
  Cindy Clough: I think the big thing it'd be hard for me is if I went into a program that was very non driven and kind of lazy and settling, because I'm so driven and want to be good. And I know you're that way too. So changing that culture might be hard. And that might take time, right?
• 7:38
  Jennifer Sims: Yes, yes. And I think, you know, you have to pick your battles. So when entering or entering into someone else's program, whether you have experience coaching or not, you know, there are a lot of ways to do things, and not everything works the same way, in different places. I think you have to have a wide variety of strategies, kind of in your in your back pocket ready to try something else, if things aren't going the way that you want. And so you have to, you have to pick the big things that you feel will help your team be as successful as possible, without changing who they are.
• 8:20
  Cindy Clough: Right? How can you give me an example? I don't mean to put you on the spot.
• 8:23
  Cindy Clough: Absolutely stuff of different strategies you've
• 8:28
  Jennifer Sims: used? Well, I'll give you one that seems maybe rather simple. But I got to a point, you know, when I been around a while at, at some schools, at some of my other with some of my other teams where there were things that were just kind of non negotiable, you know, I picked the music, you know, I of course I wanted them to buy in, but I, I usually have things set up so that they could hear a bit of music and tell me what they liked. And then I could build from there. And just to get, you know, I wanted I wanted their input, I want them to love what they're dancing to. But I also don't want it to be this long drawn out, you know, 50 opinions sort of situation where when I say things moving? Well, when I first started to Albert Lee this past August, I knew we had to get rolling right away because I was coming in late as far as planning. Exactly, yeah. goes.
• 9:20
  Jennifer Sims: And in watching them over the years as a as a coach in another school and you know, just looking at videos and things like that. I just wanted to make sure that they knew that I cared about what they wanted as far as our our musical themes, that sort of thing for the year. And I thought I had this you know, I had several different examples.
• 9:46
  Jennifer Sims: I had collected a lot of music, and I went to play music for them. And I just said, Tell me who you are. I mean, which of these strikes you and how can I build on that for you as I as I'm working hard to prepare as quickly as I can Can, and they went a completely different direction than I thought if it had been up to me, I probably would have would have chosen something completely different.
• 10:08
  Jennifer Sims: And what they chose, they said felt like them. And unfortunately, it was sort of the theme that I had the fewest options for music on at that point. And I thought, all right, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to do my best with it. And it has proven to be, and I'm talking this particular situation was hiking and, and it has proven to be so fun. And it is them. Like when they dance, this dance, I can see in them that they're not trying to be a team, they're not they have absorbed and become, you know, part of this theme. And I feel their energy in that every single day. And that's
• 10:59
  Cindy Clough: saying, yeah, yeah,
• 11:02
  Jennifer Sims: it is. And it was one of those things that probably normally I would have just done, you know, once I had gotten there, okay, they're, they're feeling for a certain, I probably wouldn't have given them so many options. But I want to be on their side, I'm building this for them. Exactly.
• 11:19
  Jennifer Sims: And
• 11:19
  Cindy Clough: I'll just interject that that was probably the smartest thing you could have done. Because if you just said, No, I think we need to do this one, they would have been kind of like fighting you all the way. So I mean, I think you said it best when he said pick your battles, you need to know it, they've got to love the music. I mean, after all the years I've coached, I still, even though I've selected the music, a lot of times I want them to buy into it. And I'll say, you know, is this something that you feel like, whoa, you know, powering forward and, and sometimes they don't want what I want. And, you know, sometimes I might dig? You know, after being there really long, I might dig my heels, my heels in a little bit and go, trust me, we're doing this, you know, but I do think when you're a new team, you can't do that. You need you need them in on it so that they feel a part of it. So how often do you Okay, here, I don't even know what I'm trying to say? How often do you have check ins with your leaders? Or is it a daily thing? Or is it a weekly thing?
• 12:21
  Cindy Clough: Or are you just feeling the pulse of how it's going and then, you know,
• 12:29
  Jennifer Sims: right now, I've got a standing, you know, Wednesday meeting after practice tomorrow. And, and I meet with captains and sometimes I keep upperclassmen in general, but it's usually captains and I have a variety of things I want to talk to them about. And if for some reason we can't meet on that Wednesday, or on on a Wednesday, then I will talk to them before practice a little bit more concisely, I suppose.
• 12:58
  Jennifer Sims: Or I'll even send them you know, a group, email or message and tell them about something I'm thinking about. And could they give me some feedback. So I try to check in as much as I can, it gets busy and I know that I neglect to do that as often as I want to but, but I think a weekly meeting gives you and your gives me as a coach insight into the team and how they're feeling about things. And, and it allows me to know them in a different way. They, I believe, feel, and I truly value their opinions and their thoughts. And I feel like then it becomes a team effort. It's not just me telling them this is how it is or what we're doing. I can gain their input on things that are important or that I that I'm seeing as a potential problem.
• 13:54
  Jennifer Sims: Or maybe it's just planning. So
• 13:58
  Cindy Clough: I think it's so smart to do that even as a vet coach, you need to know what's going on. You know, if you open the door for them to talk to you, you find out stuff that might be going on behind the scenes that you can address, and you can fix it and you can move forward like you know, I think can't I always say you know, you need to daily be talking to your team about goals and and take the temperature of the room basically and know how they're feeling and address it daily.
• 14:28
  Cindy Clough: Because otherwise stuff blows up. So it's that's really important. So do you feel you've gotten your your captain's on board to trust you this year?
• 14:38
  Jennifer Sims: I think so. I mean, you know, sometimes as we've gotten to know each other, I know that they I know that they trust. My experience. I know that they I've worked hard to show them that I'm invested in who they are and what they're are doing, I think, I think sometimes I feel that they don't want to disappoint me. So they're hesitant to say something, or that maybe they think I'll be offended if they ask me something about why we're doing something. And I absolutely don't want them to ever hesitate to ask me a question or something out because they're not going to hurt my feelings.
• 15:29
  Cindy Clough: Tough you are.
• 15:30
  Jennifer Sims: Yeah, yeah. And, and so I think that's still a phase of building trust that you can say something. And you're, and you're not going to, you know, there's not some sort of wrath coming later. Because you asked a question.
• 15:45
  Cindy Clough: Yeah, that's great. I think that communication piece is number one, and then building your program in terms of how much they practice a week compared to before, you know, building some consistency. I know, if I went into a program, I'd probably add, you know, like, we do weightlifting. And we do a lot of different strengthening things that, that maybe a new program would be like, Oh, no, you know, we don't want to do that. So it takes awhile to add your, you know, add things to the program that they've had, but I do feel it's smart to start slowly.
• 16:22
  Jennifer Sims: I did some practice time. Um, and that we ran into a few glitches with scheduling, because there were dancers that had commitments at studios or, you know, things of that sort, because they, they always ended practice of a certain time and, and there were three days a week, I increased practice time, a lot of what I struggle with is some of the stuff I know that they need is best suited, I believe, for the offseason. And I think, um, and then build it into the season as time goes on, but we didn't have that time together. Right? Yes.
• 16:59
  Jennifer Sims: And so I feel like yep, I increased practice time. Um, I feel like, my, obviously, my expectations are different from what they're used to, in general. So I feel like that's been the balance is adding some of that practice time. And then
• 17:18
  Cindy Clough: as you're playing catch up, basically playing catch up. Yeah,
• 17:21
  Jennifer Sims: absolutely. Yeah.
• 17:23
  Cindy Clough: How about a topic that we haven't talked about is gaining the trust of parents? So has that been? You know, what, tell me about that process?
• 17:34
  Jennifer Sims: Well, I think communication is really key, I try I try to communicate weekly, with a weekly update with with the parents just as a heads up about what's going on, but then I might encourage them in the stands, you know, cheer loudly, or, you know, whatever it might be, or give them a little insight into something we're practicing that particular week or focusing on. They've been really great this year, you know, it couldn't go any way you just don't know. And they've been, you know, anything you'd help with, we're here. But, you know, we're not going to come in, and we're not going to step on toes, you know, so I've gone to them, I have a smaller booster kind of club. Group, that is fantastic. And they're willing to do pretty much anything. And I feel as though those times have been really nice for me, because you can, you can be face to face and, and gets getting to know each other at the same time that you're talking about. What you'd like to see moving forward. And, and so that's all been, it's all been, that's all been positive.
• 18:45
  Jennifer Sims: I'm sure it's
• 18:48
  Cindy Clough: great, because I don't hear that very often. And usually, usually, it's like, the booster club has their mind on what we're wearing for costumes, and they're telling me what to do as a new coach, what do I do, but I'm sure you going in with your experience. And, you know, it makes a big difference. So, you know, new coaches that are listening, that are young, know that it takes time to build the trust of the parents and I think communication what Jennifer said, you know, if you don't, I always say communication, lack of communication is filled in with negativity, you know, voids and communication, it's negativity. So you need to, and I've had that going on in my own program this week, I'm not practicing what I preach. And I feel we did a poor job of communicating something we were doing, and it kind of blew up on us. You know, it's one of those things that as veteran coaches, you know, things are going a mile a minute and we made some decisions that affected a lot of kids, and we should have right away communicated to the parents. So I think, you know, I can't stress enough that communication is so important.
• 19:54
  Cindy Clough: Sometimes it's hard when you're in the thick of the season, but Finding a way to communicate it, even if it's in your band group or, or whatnot to say, you know, hey, we're making some changes in the lineup, kids might be coming home upset just giving you a heads up, and is important, you know? How about that situation? Who's getting to dance? And who's not? Has that been a struggle this year?
• 20:21
  Cindy Clough: Because maybe you're more strict than the coach before? Or maybe you're not as strict as a coach before?
• 20:27
  Jennifer Sims: Yeah, um, well, it's interesting. I mean, I've had, I've had good conversations with parents. Fortunately, I haven't had anything blow up or, you know, I haven't. Yeah, I mean, knock on wood, right. But, um, I think because I came in.
• 20:48
  Jennifer Sims: And first of all, this team didn't even know if they were going to have a season. And I think that and I wanted to increase numbers on the floor.
• 20:55
  Jennifer Sims: And we do have some girls and kind of swing or flip positions where that's always hard, they're working hard, and they're not getting to see for time. And, and that's a challenge. But I dropped the separate JD program this year, because I wanted to take them all in and, you know, work with them and get to know them and set those expectations with the entire group. And we're separating out for JB Jas here later in the season. But it hasn't been perfect. There have been glitches, and yet people have shown a lot of grace. And so the interactions I have had have been respectful. And I, I really feel like the parents and earlier doing their their very best to allow me that grace and understand that everything's not going to be perfect, and that I came in late, I didn't have anyone else on the coaching staff until October. It. So I feel as though they're they are they're showing me that grace.
• 22:02
  Jennifer Sims: And fortunately, I felt a lot of support above all else.
• 22:09
  Cindy Clough: That's wonderful, you know, and I feel for teams, like if they knew they, if they possibly knew they weren't having a season, they have to appreciate you coming in and taking the time and, and building the program that you're building. I'm glad to hear that you got some assistance to help you too. Because I was actually wondering that, like, how you're managing it all. So well. Is there any last thing that you'd want to add? I mean, I feel like your insight has been very valuable to know, because
• 22:38
  Jennifer Sims: I guess one thing I was thinking about when we were talking earlier, I'm not sure why exactly it popped into my head. But in building those relationships, you know, I come from a background of teaching, classroom teaching, and I. And it's something I tried to do in the classroom as well. But I also try and do it on the team.
• 22:54
  Jennifer Sims: And sometimes I'm really great about it, and I'm in a streak and other times I not so much, but I found power in, you know, catching them doing the right thing. And maybe I forget to say it right at the moment. But I will send out a quick message to an individual dancer and tell them I noticed that I saw or I've seen this improved. Have you seen Have you watched this, go back and watch this. And now watch the video from last weekend. Wow, you've grown so much. You know, I mean, just to say that it's easy to listen or give feedback to the most outgoing dancers, sometimes with a large group gets lost in the mix. And I want them all to understand their value on the team. And to me, that's any sort of personal note or message when you notice them improving or working so hard, you know, to notice that and to make sure that you reach out and let them know you saw. And you you see them.
• 24:05
  Cindy Clough: That's that's so important. We just had a thing at one of our studios this week where a child felt insignificant, you know, and in our director was like, I am going to change the way I'm teaching. I don't know why she felt that way. But she was like, I'm gonna go back with you know, I'm going to notice every kid in the room and I always go way back to I was in an intense kind of an intense musical band. I played the clarinet in high school and I had a fabulous band director. But he we had 76 kids in our band. And that's a lot and he said he felt like he had failed if he didn't make eye contact with each and every one of us within the hour. And I've held on to that that you have to notice I remember one day I was leaving, and there was a kid standing outside. And I was at a time when I had a really large team like pray for the kids on the floor. We don't do that anymore. But um I thought to myself, I didn't even see you today it you know, I didn't tell her that. But I felt like oh my gosh, you're working so fast, you're changing choreography, you got to try to notice every kid. And if you do have a lot of kids, maybe that's a way to have assistant coaches. You know, taking a group, so you divide them up. But I think the personal messages are so important, because it gets kids to they're going to, they're going to work harder for you, when they know how much you care. So that's a great coaching strategy is to notice them. And you said something that I use all the time to catch them doing something right. You know, especially as a dance coach, I feel like we're working at Unity so much and synchronization that you're catching them doing something wrong. So often, it's not really wrong. It's just off, you know, and so sometimes they feel like they can do no, right.
• 25:54
  Cindy Clough: So I think the point of catching them doing something right is huge. And sending out those personal messages. So that's great.
• 26:04
  Jennifer Sims: Yeah, yeah. I it's also, again, building trust, and community within the team is hugely important.
• 26:14
  Cindy Clough: Hugely important.
• 26:14
  Cindy Clough: Well, I've enjoyed having you on today. It's just been a pleasure. And I think it's going to help a lot of new coaches love to do this again sometime.
• 26:22
  Cindy Clough: And yeah, it would be great. And I wish you the best of luck as your season continues into the intense part of our season here in Minnesota. So thank you, Jennifer. So much. All right.
• 26:38
  Maya: Thank you for listening to anything but routine. If you liked the podcast, give us a five star rating or hit that subscribe button. We'll see you next time.