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Roast! Coffee Smarter: Level Up! · Coffee People Podcast

0:11
Good morning and welcome back to the roast West Coast coffee
0:14
podcast. Where I interview the coffee
0:16
Professionals of the West Coast and try to help us all get a
0:19
little bit coffee smarter in the process by asking coffee
0:22
questions to our coffee experts, I'm your host, Ryan Walt today,
0:27
Siri simran Khalsa, executive director of coffee.
0:30
Lofty coffee and Southern California is joining the show
0:33
for the first time in season 3, to give us some advice on how to
0:36
take our coffee, appreciation from our beginner level to maybe
0:40
an intermediate level and to direct us to some resources that
0:43
can help us on our journey. While you're listening today,
0:45
take a moment to follow at lofty, coffee on the social
0:48
media feeds so you can see all the cool stuff she is doing.
0:51
And while you're there, follow at roast West Coast because well
0:55
because why not, what's one more friend or follow?
0:57
Right, bonus points. If you share the show with a
0:59
friend, and I hope your coffee mug is full today because we're
1:02
going to get right into it and get coffee Smarter with Siri
1:24
Siri, welcome back to the roast West Coast podcast.
1:28
We are in season 3. And before I do anything, I want
1:30
to say welcome to pumpkin spice season.
1:33
It's here in all its Glory. It is, it's been a long time
1:39
since I've seen you or talk to you.
1:41
I think since July, maybe even June, before we get started with
1:45
any coffee expert stuff, what's up with you?
1:47
What's up with lofty? What's the world?
1:49
Like yeah, things are moving quickly.
1:55
Well, we are actually in the middle of doing a lot of
1:59
projects on a roasting facility. We are upgrading our roaster.
2:04
We're currently roasting on a 15kg Lauren Falcon, which has
2:09
been my main coffee roaster for the last six years and we're
2:15
upgrading it to a 35kg Castrol Laureen.
2:19
And so preparing the roasting facility to have installation of
2:24
a new roaster. But then also preparing all the
2:27
other things that come with being able to produce more
2:30
coffees, so it has been very hectic.
2:35
Few months. Is that nerve?
2:38
I don't mean to interrupt is that nerve-racking for you at
2:40
all just switching from something.
2:41
You've spent so much time on to something new, the same same
2:44
family of roaster, but it's new. Yeah.
2:48
So we're probably going to be really getting The Roaster in
2:52
late November, December. That gives us a little bit of
2:55
time. It's not like this immediate
2:57
switch something. We've decided to do is actually
3:00
also keep the smaller 15kg roaster.
3:04
So that will be at least like Are and operational like during
3:09
this transitional period And there's definitely going to be a
3:13
learning curve but I am more excited than anything to just
3:18
expand my knowledge and ability to be a little bit more diverse
3:25
and how I approach. Roasting so yeah it's all good
3:30
and you mentioned the time of year this year particularly And
3:36
definitely, because of the pandemic, we have seen major
3:40
delays and not only the coffee industry, but all industries
3:45
that being delays with importation and receiving
3:49
product logistically. And we we finally actually over
3:55
the last couple weeks received coffees that we were expecting
3:58
months ago. And these are like, Mainstays on
4:02
our menu and coffees that we've been buying for many years.
4:06
So it's just really exciting to have some familiar coffees back
4:10
in our lineup and to kind of hone in on our Staples, that
4:16
being our Blends. But then also we have some
4:18
amazing single Origins coming that these last couple weeks
4:21
I've been working on that. I'm really excited to share with
4:24
everyone that's awesome. When you say, shipping delays
4:27
that's literally. And this is something I've been
4:29
reading a lot about lately, but like, literally ships, like
4:32
boats are outs like kind of stuck in a lineup.
4:35
Literally both said it's not Not just like this generic thing.
4:38
No I was talking to one of our important partners and they
4:44
showed me this photo because I guess they were in the Bay Area
4:48
because that's where we actually Warehouse our coffee.
4:51
So he showed me this photo of the port and it was just I think
4:56
there were like 50 plus ships, just in the water, stuck in the
5:01
water and that being there's just major delays with unloading
5:06
These containers and these ships.
5:08
So I think someone was telling me there was a container out on
5:12
the water, it was at the Port but on the water for almost 80,
5:17
plus days before it got unloaded.
5:20
And then and then there's the whole Logistics of unloading a
5:23
container and then the logistics of shipping, the products from
5:29
that container to a roasting facility.
5:32
So which has many many and again, we're not the only Only
5:37
industry experiencing this. When we are as we have lots of
5:41
projects going on, you know, there's things that will order
5:43
from other types of like paper like the paper industry.
5:47
For example, like we're completely out of our, like,
5:51
shipping boxes. So it's like, ran just like
5:54
random things that I have obviously been a impacted.
5:59
I think we've all learned a lot about how connected these things
6:02
are, but, like, buying a car, like a car can be completely
6:05
built. But like one, Chip isn't ready
6:07
and it maybe six months, maybe a year.
6:09
You don't know what about you. I mean, how are you doing as a
6:12
person? I'm doing good.
6:15
I am. I outside of work have just been
6:21
trying to be outside as much as possible.
6:24
I'm not sure if I've talked about this in the past, but
6:27
during like actually, right when the pandemic happen, I got into
6:30
rock climbing. And so I've been pretty going
6:33
pretty full force with that taking.
6:36
Opportunities to go outside and camp and be in, with the rocks
6:42
and the major few. A few weekends ago, we took a
6:47
trip out to Holcomb, which is in the Big Bear area and it was
6:51
just so nice because it was still a little hot.
6:53
So not a lot of people were there, but we brought the dog
6:57
and he just had a blast. He met a deer for the first
7:02
time. Oh boy.
7:03
He had no idea what to do. It's like, what the hell is
7:06
that? I know on the other side of the
7:10
country there's like a group of zebras that have escaped like
7:13
where they were living and they're just like kind of living
7:16
in nature. Wow.
7:17
And they're trying to oh my goodness trying to catch them
7:20
and return them to their owner is.
7:22
I think it's Maryland and the the conversation is like while
7:25
they seem to be doing fine out there.
7:27
Like maybe we just leave them be and like it's a lot more
7:31
interesting to see a zebra than a deer on the side of the
7:33
Republic is your driver. Oh my goodness!
7:35
That would be why? Why would be like, if you didn't
7:38
know that new story to just come across the zebra?
7:40
You'd have to just be like, what is in my coffee today?
7:43
Like is what that's outside of work, but still coffee related.
7:51
I have a friend who moved to San Diego from Providence.
7:55
Her name is Sophie short and she is a consultant for cafes and
8:00
groceries. And when she moved out here,
8:03
she's she hasn't even been here for a year.
8:05
But she's Really gung-ho about the coffee industry and
8:10
community events. So her and I partnered up to
8:15
kind of revitalize, the San Diego Coffee Network which I'm
8:19
not sure if you're familiar with pre-pandemic, it was a
8:23
community-based organization that would put on like events
8:30
for coffee professionals. Not being a lot are throwdowns
8:34
Town, Halls. Like social events and just a
8:39
couple weeks ago we did our first because we kind of are
8:44
taking it over to just facilitate and help any
8:48
community members who want to put on events and we did our
8:52
first event and it was called, what's that smell?
8:55
And it was a friendly competition.
8:58
It was a friendly competition of sensory competition where
9:04
competitors would And smell different smells and the top
9:12
competitors. Who got the most right?
9:13
Would move on to the next round and there were some grand prizes
9:17
and it was a grand old time. We also had some other sensory
9:21
event activities, based around organic acids and little test
9:26
that you can do to learn if you're maybe a supertaster.
9:29
So that was really fun and very exciting to see the outcome of
9:34
that. A lot of people showed up and We
9:36
hope to put on more events very soon.
9:39
That's very cool. Yeah, we'll definitely look for
9:40
more events from the San. Diego Coffee, Network Network
9:43
threads. The the whole smelling contest
9:47
thing is about the most wholesome and nerdy thing that
9:49
I've heard in a long time. I know.
9:52
It's like, I'm just imagining, like someone walking around with
9:54
a jar like smell. This figured out, some totally,
10:00
but I love it. Speaking of coffee, I should ask
10:03
you a question today, and I have one, which is And I'm wondering
10:07
what your advice is kind of for beginning or intermediate
10:10
coffee. Drinkers, kind of how to take
10:13
that next step. Like, I've gotten excited about
10:15
coffee, I go to good coffee shops.
10:18
What is the next level of my coffee drinking and you just
10:23
kind of mention smells? So I think that's kind of a
10:25
good, good segue. Yeah I think it's a great
10:29
question because I think we've all been there.
10:33
I think my my launch into. Okay, I'm interested in this.
10:41
How can I learn more? Was like to me that time in my
10:44
life is a very Vivid and I like I can remember specifically the
10:50
very first coffee shop. I worked for there was somebody
10:53
there who who was a lot more experience than me and showed a
10:57
lot of passion for it. And I find that I found that to
11:00
be really inspiring and so I Look to Him I was like like,
11:03
what should I do? How do I learn more?
11:07
And one of the first things that I did, was he suggested, you
11:13
know, go to all sorts of different coffee shops and just
11:17
taste their espresso. And at the time, I loved coffee,
11:20
but I wouldn't say, like, espresso was my beverage of
11:23
choice. And I actually now that we're
11:26
speaking about this, I wonder if because now that is my, that's
11:30
like my go-to favorite coffee. Drink and I wonder if It's kind
11:37
of influence that where anytime I was walking around and I saw a
11:41
coffee shop. That looked either, it had a
11:44
cool, interesting-looking, espresso machine or I liked the
11:47
design of their cups or something that like intrigued me
11:52
and at the time I lived in New York.
11:53
So you are kind of walking around and there are tons of
11:56
coffee shops and little shops everywhere.
11:58
So it was kind of easy to just be like huh what's that?
12:02
And then pop in and just tasting all sorts of different espresso
12:05
and you start to like Like identify things that you do and
12:08
don't like about them. And for me at the time it was
12:11
not so much like, oh, I taste this dark chocolate or two.
12:14
It was more of like I don't like this aftertaste or there's some
12:18
sweetness or whoa, this is really bitter and kind of from
12:24
there. I being able to identify things
12:26
that I did and didn't like because at the end of the day
12:29
coffee is so, so much about preference and from there, I
12:34
really started to learn what it is that Didn't like and
12:38
furthermore I think as you said about the smells is
12:43
understanding, others coffee can be of this full sensory
12:47
experience. So if you really want to get
12:50
into it, you can. There are so all sorts of
12:55
Reese's sources out there in the sense of learning how to taste
12:58
and smell a few of those being one, being the coffee flavor
13:04
wheel. I think that's a super helpful.
13:06
A thing where it's like, okay I enjoy coffee, but what is it
13:09
that I enjoy about it? How can I further identify those
13:13
things? And to me, while the coffee
13:16
wheel is a little bit limiting because, you know, it only has
13:20
so many flavors and I think you could get stuck in like these
13:23
are the only flavors that existed coffee were where, you
13:26
know, all of our experiences can influence the things that we
13:31
taste and smell and coffee. So, while it can be a little
13:34
limiting, I think the Color scheme.
13:37
And again, it's a great way to just get into, like, okay, these
13:41
are flavors that I could identify with even furthermore,
13:45
there's this really cool thing called the Lexicon, that, the
13:49
world coffee research. Put together that I've in the
13:52
smelling activities that I've done.
13:54
I find very helpful because you can in the Lexicon, you could go
13:59
to blueberry and it'll tell you exactly in in like adjectives
14:06
and Words, what blueberry tastes and smells like and then it
14:10
gives you essentially a recipe to recreate to what the world
14:14
coffee research standard of blueberry tastes like so you
14:17
could go in there. Exactly recreate what blueberry
14:23
taste and smell like that. For example, I think I'm
14:26
forgetting blue. I think blueberry might be like,
14:28
blueberry Smuckers Jam. Where it's like, you could go to
14:32
the grocery stores and get like this, the exact brand.
14:37
That blueberry jam and then that's how you could identify,
14:39
what blueberry taste and smell like.
14:42
And I know, right now in the day of covid that this is not super
14:46
accessible, but whether it be a local coffee shop, or a local
14:52
coffee, importer or Community event but reaching out and and
14:57
cupping and and seeing if there's these local businesses
15:02
that do public couplings, because that's a great way to To
15:06
taste a lot of coffees all at once and then further be able to
15:12
see, okay, there's this coffee, there's coffee in this coffee
15:15
and now I'm that I'm tasting them all side by side.
15:17
I can see that there's these different nuances, and flavors
15:21
and Aromas, and you can start to differentiate them.
15:24
So, yeah, I feel like I'm rambling.
15:26
No, no, that's that's that's one of the things that I love about
15:30
our conversations is sometimes I'm like, oh, I think that I'm
15:33
going to have to. I'm gonna ask another question
15:35
here, and then you keep going and I'm I know I did that's a
15:37
whole nother topic. I have to think about so at
15:40
lofty. Do you guys put tasting notes on
15:43
your bags? And I have a just yes or no.
15:45
Because I have a reason why I'm asking.
15:47
Yes, you do. Okay, so I have talked to some
15:50
Roasters who like to put tasting notes kind of for what you're
15:53
talking about is people are learning.
15:55
They can engage with that coffee and have things they're looking
15:58
for. But on the other side of it, I
16:00
also have talked to Roasters who like don't want to do it because
16:03
they want people to experience it without any preconceived.
16:06
And Notions of what they're tasting.
16:08
And I thought that, I think that's a really interesting
16:11
Dynamic. Yeah.
16:13
Actually, I recently had this conversation with another local
16:16
coffee roaster. Where, yeah, it's, I think I
16:22
totally understand the ladder of not putting tasting notes and
16:27
allowing people to experience the coffee for what it is.
16:31
But I do find and I speak to this from the Ends of dealing
16:38
with customers. And essentially selling them
16:41
coffee is that if we're something we do at lofty as we
16:46
try to move away from the terms, like light, medium dark, just
16:49
because they're bit arbitrary, what might be a dark roast to
16:53
you. Might be a medium roast to me.
16:57
It's just it's a brought. Those are broad terms that can
17:01
just not really be. As like, for example, the
17:05
darkest roast out, At lofty is nowhere.
17:08
Close to a dark roast that you might get at the grocery store.
17:11
So if I tell a customer, this is our dark roast and they're
17:15
expecting something else and they're like, oh, this is not
17:18
what I wanted. So moving towards more
17:22
descriptive languages and and adjectives and words that can
17:28
help a customer understand what it is that they're getting.
17:31
I find to be very helpful especially for people who
17:35
aren't, you know, There's, there's the reality that not
17:39
everyone that comes to our coffee shop is super coffee
17:42
nerd. Who really like really cares a
17:45
lot about certain aspects that we care about and they just want
17:50
a good cup of coffee and being able to give them some ideas of
17:57
what the coffee is going to taste.
17:58
Like, I think has always helped me, you know, first of all, sell
18:04
that coffee to my customer but then also, That they come back
18:08
and they're like, you know what I did have this coffee and it
18:10
did taste like this and I really liked it.
18:13
So I'm going to get it again or I really liked it but I actually
18:16
want to try something that's maybe a little bit more full
18:19
bodied or has more like traditional chocolate flavors.
18:25
So to go off what you're saying though.
18:28
And I talked about this on the cutting table with the junior
18:31
roaster and the other people that I come up with is sometimes
18:35
when we're copying We'll have a very specific flavor that sticks
18:41
out to us but then we'll be like, okay, is the general
18:45
public going to be able to identify with this flavor?
18:49
Are they going to do? People know what clove tastes
18:53
like? You know, do people have people
18:56
tried blackcurrant? It's a comment.
18:59
Very common flavor know that comes up early.
19:02
How are people going to understand that?
19:04
So having Or broad flavor descriptor.
19:09
So, for example, one of our Blends its flavor, profile is
19:14
sweet Citrus where it's it's a little bit more broad.
19:19
It's not specifically lemon, but it can be interpreted as a sweet
19:24
Citrus equality, you know, might have that like zingy acidity
19:29
sparkling and actually, furthermore what I wanted to get
19:33
to was I think and this is something I want.
19:37
Nike up, I write a lot of notes about is specifically.
19:40
Actually the overall tactile experience whether that being
19:45
full body sparkling, what is a term that we have on the one of
19:51
our coffees right now is opulent smooth silky.
19:58
So using other words other than specific flavors, I think is
20:02
good too because that it talks to the overall Coffee
20:07
experience, not just the flavors, you're going to get
20:09
because maybe they re like yeah, it has subtle flavors of cacao,
20:13
but it's really balanced and smooth, and I like the
20:18
aftertaste. I think those are giving giving
20:21
coffee drinkers more than just flavor, I think gives them a
20:27
path to enjoy maybe more than just what the coffee tastes
20:30
like, but the overall experience, I think just to
20:34
recap kind of for anyone listening what?
20:36
Getting out of this is that, if you're kind of a beginner
20:40
intermediate coffee drinker, and you're trying to take that next
20:43
step. A couple of important things are
20:45
one, obviously you're trying coffees a lot of coffees either.
20:49
Maybe it's a black coffee only or espresso but something, you
20:51
can compare a little bit. You're creating a vocabulary for
20:54
yourself about those coffees and whether they're traditional the
20:58
flavor wheel is a great way to like learn a lot of what
21:01
traditional flavors are. But also creating ways to talk
21:04
about that coffee when you're thinking about it, And then
21:07
taking that Step Beyond. Yes.
21:10
I like it. No, I don't.
21:11
And going. Okay.
21:12
Well, what is it that I do like about it and what is it that I
21:14
don't. And I think what I find for
21:17
myself is sometimes I might take a sip of coffee and maybe
21:20
wrinkle my nose a little bit and be like, I don't know, but the
21:24
more I start thinking about it and I'm like, okay, why don't I
21:26
like it? What is it?
21:27
What was the thing that went into it?
21:29
Maybe it wasn't the coffee, maybe it was how it was brewed,
21:31
you know, there's all these little things and I think if
21:34
you're trying to take that next, Step it involves asking yourself
21:39
those quite you're going past that first level of like, don't
21:42
like you're going. Okay.
21:43
Why, why am I doing this? You create a vocabulary and you
21:47
mentioned something really important.
21:48
I think, which is, it is harder, you know, whatever your comfort
21:53
level is with the pandemic, but it is harder to just pop into a
21:56
shop and hang out, but asking questions, you know, if you go
22:00
somewhere and you you'd like their coffee, or you don't like
22:03
their coffee, ask them, why they think it's a good coffee.
22:06
Ask them what they get out of it, and there's always going to
22:10
be. I mean, don't ask it if there's
22:11
200 people waiting in line, they're trying to do their job.
22:14
But if there's time certainly asking and you might learn
22:18
something about that coffee, that makes you think about it in
22:20
a different way? Yeah, totally.
22:24
I think we just saw that. Yeah, a question.
22:26
We did cool. I do think, and I mean, this
22:32
goes for anyone who's buying coffee bags out there and I
22:37
think also too, just the last part of like, maybe do we not
22:41
have tasting notes on the bag? It's just knowing that the
22:44
tasting notes are not the end-all be-all and like you
22:48
might detect things that are not on the tasty are not
22:51
specifically on the bag and that's awesome.
22:55
And like, those are further conversational starters if you
22:59
go back into that cafe and you're like, you know, I got
23:01
this bag and I totally got that blueberry but you know I also
23:04
got this this and that. And then, maybe that's your
23:08
window to creating a stronger relationship with your Barista
23:12
or, or, you know, furthering your palate development.
23:17
I'm looking at a bag of coffee at my desk right here and it and
23:20
one of the tasting notes on it is buttery.
23:22
And I as we were talking, I'm thinking how many different ways
23:25
could I imagine buttery and until I drink this coffee while
23:28
thinking about it? I won't really know what they
23:30
mean. Yeah.
23:31
Yeah. I think, let's call it a day on
23:35
this very first episode that we've done together for season
23:38
3. I have like 400 more questions
23:40
to ask you this season, all of them stemming from this
23:43
conversation we just had. And so I want to, I want to
23:45
spread it out and give people something to look forward to for
23:47
nice amazing. Thank you so much.
23:51
I look forward to the next question.
23:52
Glad to have you back, okay? To recap some of the things Siri
24:02
and I talked about today. We think zebras may or may not
24:05
be living in Mary. That you should check out at
24:08
San. Diego Coffee Network for events,
24:10
like coffee smell competitions. And when you're ready to level
24:13
up your coffee drinking experience, start dragging a
24:16
bunch of different coffees or espressos and begin to create a
24:19
language that helps you identify what you do or don't like why
24:24
you do or don't like it. And what characteristics you can
24:27
identify in that coffee. Remember that coffee can be a
24:30
full sensory experience taste smell mouth feel.
24:34
And even the look of your coffee can impact How you feel about it
24:37
in the end? I think the language piece is
24:39
one of the most important tools you can have.
24:41
So, I'm going to link to resources like the coffee flavor
24:44
wheel, and the world coffee research lexicon that we
24:47
referenced on roast westcoast.com.
24:49
That is all for this episode of the roast, West Coast coffee
24:52
podcasts, weekly coffee smarter session, thanks to series, she's
24:56
doing some amazing things that lofty coffee, be sure to check
24:59
them out, I'll be back next week with an interview with Marc
25:01
Wortman, he's the founder and head roaster of the make good
25:04
coffee company. Mark got his start as A coffee
25:07
blogger. A blogger for our younger
25:09
listeners, is basically the early 2000s version of a
25:12
podcaster, someone who shared their opinions in written and
25:15
visual form on the internet. I'll let him get into it a
25:17
little bit further. I also got to thank this show
25:20
supporters, Maria coffee leap, coffee, zoom, bar, coffee, and
25:23
tea steady-state. Roasting Cafe litter Cape Horn
25:26
coffee, coffee cycle, first White, Whiskey and Camp, coffee
25:30
company in Oceanside. I'm going to be stopping by
25:33
Cafe, lechera Solana Beach. This weekend to check in on
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their efforts. To get a new space open just
25:38
north of there in Encinitas as always thanks to you.
25:41
The listener for asking questions that I then get to ask
25:43
these coffee. Experts also for sharing the
25:45
show with your friends and for checking out my roast industry
25:48
Partners, you can find all the links on the website roast
25:51
westcoast.com where you can also subscribe to this newsletter and
25:54
never miss an episode. I've got another coffee quote to
25:57
close out the show today is from author, just Tina Chen, Headley
26:01
who wrote adventure and life is good, consistency and coffee
26:05
even better. This episode of the roast West
26:08
Coast coffee podcast is was and has been written produced and
26:12
recorded by me Ryan Walter. I hope this show is found you
26:15
happy healthy and with at least enough sanity to make it through
26:18
the day. And please always tip your
26:20
Baristas and be sure to drink good coffee.