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How far did Isaac Newton go to hunt down forgers? · Ridiculous History

0:10
Speaker 1: Yea, oh Man, oh Man, oh Man, Friends and neighbors,
0:27
Speaker 1: fellow Ridiculous historians, Welcome to the show. I for one,
0:32
Speaker 1: am excited because today's episode concerns one of our favorite
0:37
Speaker 1: genres of historical individuals, the con artist flim flam Man,
0:43
Speaker 1: which our last episode did as well. We have we
0:46
Speaker 1: have a preponderance of con artists in the show, and
0:50
Speaker 1: I have no regrets about it. Who am I? I'm Ben?
0:53
Speaker 1: Who you are I'm Noel? This ridiculous history? And who's
0:55
Speaker 1: that handsome man outside of the booth? Why that devil
1:00
Speaker 1: as I live and breathe? That's super producer Casey Pegrom.
1:04
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, gracious, I love what people say as
1:07
Speaker 1: I love a breathe. Well, it's funny too, because when
1:08
Speaker 1: you said that sound, yes, I do allow that expression.
1:10
Speaker 1: When you said that, and then the sound happened, a
1:13
Speaker 1: beautiful glint on Casey's pearly white, very straight teeth lit
1:17
Speaker 1: up the room. That's true. It's true. We Uh off
1:21
Speaker 1: Air Nolan. I spend uh a lot of time just
1:25
Speaker 1: sort of staring and Casey when we think he's not looking,
1:28
Speaker 1: you know, he always sees. Though. Yeah, I'm sorry I
1:30
Speaker 1: had to find out on air casey. You know it's
1:33
Speaker 1: fine though, it's fine. It's endearing, not creepy at all,
1:37
Speaker 1: not creepy at all. Let's make that a T shirt.
1:41
Speaker 1: We have so many ways to begin today's story to
1:47
Speaker 1: I guess one of the easiest ways to begin it
1:50
Speaker 1: would be to give a brief shout out to the
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Speaker 1: king of gravity, Isaac Newton. Can we have an air horn?
2:00
Speaker 1: There we go? Yes, a boy, Isaac Newton, uh invented gravity.
2:08
Speaker 1: Beforehand it was pandemonium, and now it was nuts. Isaac
2:12
Speaker 1: Newton was an English mathematician and astronomer, a theologian uh.
2:17
Speaker 1: He was described in his day as a natural philosopher,
2:21
Speaker 1: one of the predecessors to what we would call a
2:24
Speaker 1: scientist today. He was born in December of sixteen forty
2:29
Speaker 1: two December, and he lived until uh the seventeen twenties
2:36
Speaker 1: seventy seventy seven. Today's episode does not concern his many
2:43
Speaker 1: many innovations and his scientific pursuits. It concerns something much
2:50
Speaker 1: more noir can I also point out that in his
2:53
Speaker 1: day he was a dead sexy s o B a
2:57
Speaker 1: sexual no way, He's like some of a Morrissey figure,
3:00
Speaker 1: a less problematic Morrissey figure. It's it's not too controversial
3:07
Speaker 1: to say that a lot of people are less problematic,
3:10
Speaker 1: uh than Morrissey, Right, I think that's very fair. So
3:14
Speaker 1: he did. He did, by all accounts, die a virgins,
3:17
Speaker 1: So maybe it's unfair to give him that term a
3:21
Speaker 1: sexual or ace, but he did die virgin. I put
3:25
Speaker 1: forth that he just didn't have time for that kind
3:28
Speaker 1: of shenanigans. He was occupying his time with more important pursuits,
3:34
Speaker 1: celestial pursuits and terrestrial pursuits. Yeah, it's it's true. Maybe
3:40
Speaker 1: he was just busy, sort of a tesla figure. We
3:44
Speaker 1: often hear about Isaac Newton in relation to his many
3:49
Speaker 1: many scientific pursuits as well as some of his more
3:54
Speaker 1: spiritual or esoteric pursuits. But what many of us may
3:58
Speaker 1: not know, I'll come clean what I did not know
4:02
Speaker 1: before we began researching this episode. He also Uh, he
4:08
Speaker 1: also worked as a lawman of sorts. Yeah. Now, not
4:12
Speaker 1: only allowment like a like a sleuth, like like a
4:16
Speaker 1: Batman level detective. Yeah. Yeah, that's where you put it.
4:21
Speaker 1: He took his scientific acumen and his cognitive prowess and
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Speaker 1: he applied it to the problem of crime. Journey with
4:29
Speaker 1: us back to sixteen nine five, England's Royal Mint found
4:35
Speaker 1: out that they had a very very alarming problem. They
4:39
Speaker 1: had a bunch of currency in circulation, right, A large
4:44
Speaker 1: portion of that currency was fake. It was counterfeit, it
4:47
Speaker 1: was phony, and this is not a good look for
4:52
Speaker 1: the Royal meant it's not a good look for the
4:54
Speaker 1: economy at large. And the counterfeiting operations were growing increasingly sophisticated,
5:02
Speaker 1: sort of like in the Terminator franchise, when the original
5:06
Speaker 1: robots are easily distinguishable from humans, but then they get
5:10
Speaker 1: better and better and better and increasingly difficult to identify,
5:14
Speaker 1: unless we forget to mention that the man who discovered
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Speaker 1: this problem of counterfeit coin was Isaac Newton himself after
5:24
Speaker 1: he was made the Warden of the Royal Mint. Not
5:27
Speaker 1: to be confused with like the Warden of the North
5:29
Speaker 1: or something, but it really does carry quite a weighty
5:33
Speaker 1: aura the term warden, you know. Yeah, yeah, oh, And
5:36
Speaker 1: we just got new business cards, and I'm kicking myself.
5:39
Speaker 1: We could have chosen some times. Do you think they
5:41
Speaker 1: would have led us to supervising warden of production? Sounds
5:47
Speaker 1: very Yeah. When I first got business cards here way
5:50
Speaker 1: way back in the day. Because I've been here forever.
5:53
Speaker 1: They allowed me to choose my own job title. Casey,
5:56
Speaker 1: you remember this because I was I was pulling everybody,
6:00
Speaker 1: and I got very close to changing my job title
6:05
Speaker 1: to a life coach or the experience like the Edge. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
6:11
Speaker 1: but good. His guitar tone is very influential. I just
6:16
Speaker 1: think meeting someone and having to call them the Edge,
6:21
Speaker 1: it's a it's a preposterous expectation. He also seems like
6:25
Speaker 1: a pretty boring dude, does he just does? He's got
6:27
Speaker 1: like he is this lizz whole look. He just doesn't
6:29
Speaker 1: seem I could be wrong. I'm sure he's a great guy,
6:32
Speaker 1: but he seems like the least edgy type of dude,
6:35
Speaker 1: especially when you go by the name of the Edge.
6:37
Speaker 1: You know, nicknames are weird. And he's not hurt in anyone.
6:40
Speaker 1: I'm glad he's happy. I hope he's happy with the name.
6:43
Speaker 1: I hope he doesn't feel trapped in that Moniker. Well,
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Speaker 1: I'll tell you who wasn't happy. It was Warden of
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Speaker 1: the Royal Mint, Sir Isaac Newton, in the year of
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Speaker 1: six when he made that shocking discovery that twenty percent
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Speaker 1: of the coins that the mint was circulating were in
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Speaker 1: fact at counterfeits, and he decided to set out on
7:04
Speaker 1: a fact finding expedition. Dare we say an investigation? Yes,
7:08
Speaker 1: yes we dare, because you see Newton. It turns out
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Speaker 1: was quite talented as warden of the Mint, and he
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Speaker 1: was able to catch quite a few counterfeiters. Yet there
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Speaker 1: was one fellow very high in the world of forgery
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Speaker 1: and counterfeiting, a man named William Chaloner, who kept escaping
7:31
Speaker 1: Newton's grasped time after time. William Chaloner is someone who
7:38
Speaker 1: could be the subject of Gosh, a multiple episode series
7:44
Speaker 1: all his own, and much like our friend Mr Fritz
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Speaker 1: Dufkine in the previous episode, this gentleman was also something
7:52
Speaker 1: of a villainous figure um a villainous renaissance man if
7:56
Speaker 1: you will, yeah yeah, A grifter. Will Iam Challoner was
8:00
Speaker 1: born sometime in sixteen fifty to a poor family in Warwickshire,
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Speaker 1: but he eventually attained great financial success through his career
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Speaker 1: in counterfeiting and through his career in con artistry. He
8:15
Speaker 1: started by forging Birmingham Groats that was a English and
8:21
Speaker 1: Irish silver coin that was worth four pence, or it
8:25
Speaker 1: could also be a Scottish coin originally worth fourpence. And
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Speaker 1: from that point he moved on to creating counterfeit Guinea's crowns,
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Speaker 1: half crowns, bank notes, even lottery tickets. There there's one
8:38
Speaker 1: side note that we we have to get out of
8:40
Speaker 1: the way. He didn't just uh make counterfeit currency for
8:46
Speaker 1: a time. Uh, he also made and sold uh sexual aids.
8:53
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, sexual coming aids. Can we say it on
8:56
Speaker 1: the show? Come a third time? Can we say it
8:59
Speaker 1: on the show? You think dildos here? Dildos? Yeah? See,
9:04
Speaker 1: dildo was such a funny word because to too many
9:07
Speaker 1: it would be considered a swear. But it is such
9:09
Speaker 1: a silly, silly word. Yeah, it's you know, it's still
9:13
Speaker 1: somehow sounds less dirty than the phrase dongle, dongles way worse.
9:20
Speaker 1: It's so bad. But yeah, am a false thallus. Yes,
9:27
Speaker 1: there we go, Yes, a counterfeit phallus. You know what
9:31
Speaker 1: we got there. We talked about this off air, we did,
9:34
Speaker 1: and it's totally true. So he was counter Not only
9:36
Speaker 1: was he counterfeiting money, he was also a counterfeiting penis.
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Speaker 1: So this is this is a funny episode for us
9:44
Speaker 1: because we had intended to record it earlier before we
9:49
Speaker 1: had to before I had to leave town for a second.
9:51
Speaker 1: And when we got back together after I came back,
9:56
Speaker 1: we had an extensive, I think what over over an
10:00
Speaker 1: hour and a half kind of quest to figure out
10:03
Speaker 1: if we had recorded this episode or not. And I
10:06
Speaker 1: think it was because of the false fallace discussion, because
10:10
Speaker 1: we talked about it so much off air that we
10:12
Speaker 1: were like, I think we maybe did do it, you know,
10:15
Speaker 1: oh yeah that And then Casey, you know, on the
10:18
Speaker 1: case to the rescue, Uh, let let us know, to
10:21
Speaker 1: our delight in fact, that we had not recorded this yet.
10:24
Speaker 1: And this is what you hear before your very ears.
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Speaker 1: It was. It was hilarious because, as we do so often, Uh,
10:31
Speaker 1: the two of us couldn't figure out what we were
10:35
Speaker 1: supposed to be doing, and so we basically flamed Casey, say,
10:41
Speaker 1: please tell us what we have or have not done
10:44
Speaker 1: in Casey, by the way, thank you so much for
10:46
Speaker 1: keeping the ship on course my pleasure. Casey always on
10:49
Speaker 1: the case, always perpetually on the case. So here we are, uh.
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Speaker 1: William Challenger. He is described as a willful youth with
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Speaker 1: dishonest tendencies. He is originally apprenticed as a nail maker
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Speaker 1: before he begins working in the thriving counterfeit industry of London.
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Speaker 1: In the sixteen seventies, he purchased a largest state in
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Speaker 1: the country so he could move his minting process away
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Speaker 1: from the heat, away from the heat of London's law enforcement,
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Speaker 1: and he had a pretty good workflow set down. He
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Speaker 1: would hire middlemen who would pass the fake coins into circulation,
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Speaker 1: and those guys had the tough gig in his operation
11:43
Speaker 1: because the middlemen were the ones who were often caught,
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Speaker 1: and when they were caught, they were hanged yikes, yikes. Indeed,
11:52
Speaker 1: and because this was such a risky business, he garnered
11:56
Speaker 1: a reputation um sort of a Moriarty of finance, you know,
12:02
Speaker 1: shadowy kingpin. Holy crap, No, you're you're you're dead on
12:05
Speaker 1: because there is like this kind of Batman and Joker
12:09
Speaker 1: or Sherlock and Moriarty relationship between these two men. He's
12:13
Speaker 1: sort of like the one that got away the white whale,
12:16
Speaker 1: you know, for um our buddy Isaac Newton, who this
12:19
Speaker 1: guy was a thorn in his side because, like you said,
12:21
Speaker 1: he did a pretty good job of cleaning up the
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Speaker 1: counterfeit scene. Um, but this this gentleman continued to slip
12:30
Speaker 1: through his fingers. Yeah. And a big part of this
12:32
Speaker 1: comes about because in the sixteen nineties English currency was
12:38
Speaker 1: moving away from purely coin based stuff two notes, bank
12:44
Speaker 1: notes and paper money. And Chaloner, although he had a
12:48
Speaker 1: lot of close calls for a long time, he avoided
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Speaker 1: the law or the punishment for his crimes because the
12:55
Speaker 1: development of paper money was in advance of the laws.
12:59
Speaker 1: Cree aided to ban forging paper money. Which sounds a
13:04
Speaker 1: little bit word sality. A better way to say it
13:07
Speaker 1: is that technology will typically outpaced legislation. We're running into
13:13
Speaker 1: it in, will be running into it in the year
13:16
Speaker 1: three thousands, totally six nineties, no different, because the wheels
13:20
Speaker 1: of justice grind ever so slowly, while the wheels of
13:23
Speaker 1: commerce and progress tend to be a little more lightning quick. Yeah.
13:28
Speaker 1: And his success became his undoing because he got squarely
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Speaker 1: in the crosshairs of Sir Isaac the Warden himself and Chaloner.
13:39
Speaker 1: Although he had escaped jail for numerous years and had
13:46
Speaker 1: never had to serve time, he had not escaped unscathed.
13:51
Speaker 1: He had a long paper trail of arrest and accusations,
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Speaker 1: and this helped paint a picture of a guy who
13:58
Speaker 1: spent a lot of time on the wrong side of
14:01
Speaker 1: the law, and he was also a rat. Did you
14:07
Speaker 1: hear about this? No? I No, I didn't, But nobody
14:08
Speaker 1: likes a rat. Yeah. He He managed to get out
14:12
Speaker 1: of legal trouble multiple times by selling out other counterfeiters,
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Speaker 1: and so of the counterfeiters that he had sold out
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Speaker 1: who had been imprisoned or punished and not killed or
14:25
Speaker 1: not executed, Sir Isaac was able to question these guys
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Speaker 1: and gather many people who would say, yeah, I'll go
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Speaker 1: to court. I will point out that dirty rat Billy
14:38
Speaker 1: Chaloner because I want my revenge, to which Isaac said,
14:42
Speaker 1: all right, let's make it, let's make it official, let's
14:45
Speaker 1: do it. Let's make a deal. Um. He may have
14:47
Speaker 1: slipped the noose spend, but he did not slip the
14:50
Speaker 1: clink because Um Newton was able to amass enough evidence
14:54
Speaker 1: and these witness testimonies to get him locked up. But
14:58
Speaker 1: it didn't really eight could did it? No? No, he
15:02
Speaker 1: bribed the prosecution star witness, paid the witness enough money
15:07
Speaker 1: to flee to Scotland and then Chaloner was released and
15:10
Speaker 1: he accused Newton of framing an innocent man. We should
15:14
Speaker 1: step back for a second and say that Newton knows
15:18
Speaker 1: and despises Challenger at this point, because earlier Challenger had
15:24
Speaker 1: appeared before Parliamentary committee and he said that Newton was incompetent,
15:29
Speaker 1: terrible at his job, and that the ment employees were
15:32
Speaker 1: the ones responsible for the epidemic of counterfeit currency. So
15:36
Speaker 1: this is two strikes against the guy in Newton's mind,
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Speaker 1: and this attack on his integrity enrages him. So he
15:44
Speaker 1: decides that he is going to play dirty as well
15:49
Speaker 1: as you would call it an old dirty pool. Uh.
15:52
Speaker 1: He began bribing crooks for information, He started making threats.
15:57
Speaker 1: He found not only challengers associates, but the wives and
16:02
Speaker 1: mistresses of his associates and started intimidating and threatening them.
16:07
Speaker 1: In short, as Judy Dutton says in an excellent article
16:11
Speaker 1: of mental Floss, Newton became the dirty Harry of his time.
16:16
Speaker 1: I don't understand that reference. Dirty Harry. Are you serious?
16:19
Speaker 1: What is he like? Isn't it? Is he a cop?
16:21
Speaker 1: I don't know what dirty Harry is, Casey, He's a
16:23
Speaker 1: cop that doesn't follow the rules. It doesn't like a
16:25
Speaker 1: lot of red tape, So he's sort of like a
16:27
Speaker 1: Serpico type figure. He asked punks if they're feeling lucky? Ye? Did?
16:32
Speaker 1: He had to be at a big giant gun, didn't Heah? Yeah? Okay,
16:36
Speaker 1: all right, casey on the case? Can we get Do
16:40
Speaker 1: you feel lucky? Punk? I know what you're thinking, Punk?
16:45
Speaker 1: You're thinking diddy fire? Six shots are only five? How
16:49
Speaker 1: to tell you the truth? If about myself and all
16:51
Speaker 1: this excitement, but being this is a forty four magnum,
16:55
Speaker 1: the most powerful handgun in the world, and we'll blow
16:58
Speaker 1: your head clean off? You could ask yourself question, do
17:04
Speaker 1: I feel lucky? Well? Do you? Punk? Perfect? So yes,
17:16
Speaker 1: the comparison does hold because he was operating outside of
17:20
Speaker 1: the law, and he spent two more years chasing down
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Speaker 1: Chaloner and eventually his ethically questionable methods give him enough
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Speaker 1: evidence to put Chaloner away for good. I picture Isaac
17:35
Speaker 1: Newton with his um, you know, very expertly quaffed ringlets,
17:40
Speaker 1: you know, and his uh kind of ruffle shirt, you know,
17:44
Speaker 1: and some sort of velvet what would you call that
17:46
Speaker 1: a doublet or something like that, like water boarding dudes,
17:49
Speaker 1: and background you know, ducking their heads and toilets and
17:53
Speaker 1: stuff like that, just to get to this guy Chaloner,
17:55
Speaker 1: you know, and who knows it could have happened just
17:58
Speaker 1: like that. This is so. But for some reason, I
18:02
Speaker 1: see you see a tildo with the intimidation tactics. Can
18:05
Speaker 1: we we should probably cut that? No, no, no, okay,
18:09
Speaker 1: let's let's let's get your mind out of the of
18:11
Speaker 1: the gutter. He clearly would have used it as more
18:14
Speaker 1: of a blackjack kind of That's what I'm thinking, because
18:16
Speaker 1: he can probably beat somebody with a tildo and it
18:18
Speaker 1: wouldn't leave a mark. I'm not like a sack of oranges. Yeah,
18:22
Speaker 1: I'm not. I mean, I'm not thinking of something sexual.
18:24
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of just an I know I was helping
18:26
Speaker 1: you out to thank you, thanks for the same. On
18:34
Speaker 1: March third, Challenger has found guilty of high treason and
18:39
Speaker 1: he is sentenced to hang the very next day. Before
18:44
Speaker 1: his sentence is carried out, several days before, Challenger has
18:49
Speaker 1: written Newton a long letter proclaiming his innocence, and we
18:55
Speaker 1: we have a little bit. We can read an excerpt,
18:58
Speaker 1: but we're not going to read the whole letter, because
19:00
Speaker 1: he writes him a series of letters that go on.
19:03
Speaker 1: And here's one example. I have been close prisoner in
19:07
Speaker 1: eleven weeks, and new friends suffered to come near me,
19:10
Speaker 1: but my little child, and I am not guilty of
19:13
Speaker 1: any crime. And why am I so strictly confined? I
19:16
Speaker 1: do not know. I doubt sir you are greatly displeased
19:20
Speaker 1: with me about the late business in parliament. But if
19:23
Speaker 1: you knew that truth, you would not be angry with me,
19:26
Speaker 1: for it was brought in by some persons against my desire.
19:30
Speaker 1: My favorite line ex or that was wonderful read Ben,
19:33
Speaker 1: is I am going to be method? It says m
19:38
Speaker 1: U r t h e r e D, but then
19:39
Speaker 1: later spells it correctly. I'm not sure this is a
19:42
Speaker 1: typo on this website, the Newton Project dot X dot
19:44
Speaker 1: a C dot UK, but I like to believe that
19:47
Speaker 1: he chose to spell murdered method. So he says I
19:50
Speaker 1: AM going to be method, although perhaps you may think not,
19:54
Speaker 1: but tis true. I shall be maddad, the worse of
19:58
Speaker 1: all murders, that is, in the face of justice with
20:02
Speaker 1: an eye. So it's like if and unless I am
20:06
Speaker 1: rescued by your merciful hands. Yes, yeah, one of the
20:10
Speaker 1: very last lines he has is braiser, consider that these persons,
20:15
Speaker 1: that those accused me, are those formerly convicted for crimes,
20:19
Speaker 1: and hope your worship nor the court will believe the
20:22
Speaker 1: suggestions of such evil persons against me. That's a very
20:26
Speaker 1: similar argument to what's going on right now. In the
20:28
Speaker 1: trial of drug kingpin el Chappo. Apparently, you know, the
20:33
Speaker 1: prosecution um had dozens and dozens of witnesses, and el
20:38
Speaker 1: Chappo's lawyer had I think, no witnesses, and el Chappo
20:42
Speaker 1: didn't even take the stand, and his lawyer's whole defense was,
20:45
Speaker 1: all of these witnesses are scum, and they're just trying to,
20:49
Speaker 1: you know, get out of their own problems. Right. The
20:52
Speaker 1: plea deals and he signs this letter. You're near murdered,
20:56
Speaker 1: humble servants, w Challoner. It's quite pitiful because he's literally
21:01
Speaker 1: begging this man for his life. He's been bested by
21:03
Speaker 1: his nemesis. Uh, and now he's behind bars awaiting the news. Yep,
21:09
Speaker 1: this did not work. No, Newton felt no pity. He
21:14
Speaker 1: even adding insult to injury. Did the ultimate snub. He
21:19
Speaker 1: did not attend the hanging. He stayed home. I guess
21:23
Speaker 1: he was busy. Maybe something was on the seventeenth century netflix.
21:28
Speaker 1: Maybe he was you know, it was probably the crown,
21:31
Speaker 1: it was probably the crowd. Maybe he was at home, uh,
21:34
Speaker 1: nursing his ego. But everybody knew his guilty. Quick correction.
21:39
Speaker 1: I said that he was supposed to be hanged the
21:42
Speaker 1: next day. He was sentenced the day after the trial,
21:45
Speaker 1: and he had a fortnight in which he wrote those letters.
21:48
Speaker 1: What is that two weeks time? Yeah, it's a period
21:50
Speaker 1: of two weeks. And over these two weeks, that's when
21:54
Speaker 1: he he writes these series of increasingly desperate letters, not
21:57
Speaker 1: just in Newton, but to Justin Railton, who is the
22:00
Speaker 1: supervising magistrate. And you can see the stages of grief.
22:06
Speaker 1: They are apparent in these letters. Of course, there are
22:10
Speaker 1: five stages. Uh. The first is denial, which he was
22:14
Speaker 1: he was obviously doing. Then there's anger, he was aggressive
22:17
Speaker 1: in these letters. Then there's bargaining, which he had done
22:20
Speaker 1: before by you know, saying he would name other people.
22:23
Speaker 1: Then there's depression, which was probably a personal thing for him,
22:26
Speaker 1: and acceptance, which I don't think he really reached. So
22:31
Speaker 1: Newton had written during Chaloner's first trial, the one where
22:34
Speaker 1: he got away that the counterfeiter had formed a quote
22:38
Speaker 1: confederacy against the warden, and Chaloner could have lived a long,
22:42
Speaker 1: honest life had he let the money and the government alone.
22:47
Speaker 1: After this is very interesting, and this is kind of sketchy.
22:51
Speaker 1: After Chaloner is executed, Newton takes all the records of
22:56
Speaker 1: his investigation and burns them. He destroys all records of
23:02
Speaker 1: his involvement in the investigation, and nowadays scholars believe that
23:08
Speaker 1: is solely to cover up the ways that he broke
23:11
Speaker 1: the law in pursuit of this counterfeitterez. So he definitely
23:17
Speaker 1: did some dirty cop tactics. He continues working in law
23:22
Speaker 1: enforcement until seventeen o three, when he turns in his
23:28
Speaker 1: badge figuratively speaking and becomes President of the Royal Society,
23:33
Speaker 1: returning to the world of academia. Yeah, live out his
23:37
Speaker 1: twilight years. But man, he had a stretch there for
23:40
Speaker 1: a while where he was something of a bad cop. Badass,
23:43
Speaker 1: wasn't he? Absolutely, And there ends the story of the
23:47
Speaker 1: counterfeit Kingpin William Chaloner, who was hanged on the twenty
23:52
Speaker 1: two March sixteen nine. The Physicist and the fat the
23:58
Speaker 1: physicist in the forger. That's wonderful. This also reminds me
24:02
Speaker 1: of a great book I would like to recommend, called
24:06
Speaker 1: The Professor and the Madman. Did we ever talk about
24:08
Speaker 1: this on on air? We had to. We did an
24:10
Speaker 1: episode related to this guy, The Oxford English Dictionary. Okay,
24:15
Speaker 1: it doesn't ring about Bennett. It's it's all a blur
24:17
Speaker 1: for me. It's it's the Professor and the Madman. Tale
24:22
Speaker 1: of murder, insanity and the making of the Oxford English Dictionary.
24:28
Speaker 1: Reminds me of the strange pairing we have here with
24:31
Speaker 1: Newton and Chalon Or and would you know what it
24:36
Speaker 1: inspires me to think about? Would be other stories of
24:39
Speaker 1: these great rivalries, you know what I mean, like the
24:42
Speaker 1: Untouchables and organized Crime. I wonder what other stories are
24:48
Speaker 1: out there. There's something so compelling, so um, there's a
24:53
Speaker 1: high drama to it, you know. I'd love to see
24:56
Speaker 1: a film adaptation of this rivalry. Who would play Newton?
25:00
Speaker 1: I'm going to say, Um, I don't know, maybe Benedict Cumberbatch,
25:08
Speaker 1: are you are you? Are you getting a Sherlock? I
25:14
Speaker 1: would be interested to see Steve Bushemy play either of
25:17
Speaker 1: these characters. I think he would make a fantastic Newton.
25:20
Speaker 1: I think you're right, but I honestly think he might
25:22
Speaker 1: do better as the weird, twitchy villain guy because of
25:25
Speaker 1: his eyes, uh, those Bouchemy eyes. Let us know what
25:33
Speaker 1: stories of personal crime rivalries have captured your attention, and
25:38
Speaker 1: don't just let us know. You can also let your
25:41
Speaker 1: fellow listeners know by finding us on Instagram, by finding
25:44
Speaker 1: us on Twitter, or by finding us on our Facebook
25:47
Speaker 1: community page. Ridiculous Historians. Big thanks to super producer Casey Pegram,
25:52
Speaker 1: to Alex Williams, who composed our theme, to Gabe are
25:56
Speaker 1: delightful and talented research associate, and to you Ridiculous Historians
26:01
Speaker 1: for checking out the show. Speaking of checking out, if
26:04
Speaker 1: you want to see our off air, sometimes non ridiculous
26:08
Speaker 1: history related adventures, you can follow us on our very
26:11
Speaker 1: own instagrams. I am in a burst of creativity at
26:15
Speaker 1: ben Bulan and I am at Embryonic Insider, which I
26:18
Speaker 1: don't think I've ever said this on aerror. I don't
26:20
Speaker 1: think i've said this to you in person ever. We've
26:22
Speaker 1: known each other for years, But I think that's a
26:24
Speaker 1: cool name. Thanks man. It's actually it was the name
26:27
Speaker 1: of a song in a band that I was in
26:29
Speaker 1: a kind of uh, a little bit embarrassing tidbit from
26:33
Speaker 1: my youth, kind of like a new metal type band
26:37
Speaker 1: that you cannot find anywhere, so don't even look around
26:39
Speaker 1: for We had a song called Embryonic Inside, and so
26:42
Speaker 1: I changed it to Ambryonic in that's the inside scoop.
26:46
Speaker 1: Peek behind the curtain for more inside scoops on the Ridiculous,
26:51
Speaker 1: Bizarre and hilarious Tales of Human History. Stay tuned for
26:55
Speaker 1: our upcoming episodes, and uh, swing by our website, Ridiculous
27:01
Speaker 1: History Show dot com. We're in the t shirt business,
27:06
Speaker 1: as I think we've mentioned before, and you know it's
27:09
Speaker 1: probably time for us to add some new T shirts
27:11
Speaker 1: and all. My favorite and our newest is casey on
27:13
Speaker 1: the Case. Does it exist? Yeah, yeah, it's there. It's
27:17
Speaker 1: really cool. PC. I don't think I didn't hear you
27:20
Speaker 1: slip in that other Casey on the case sound cute? No, seriously, man,
27:24
Speaker 1: you don't have to do it every time we say
27:26
Speaker 1: the phrase, but it's fine when he does. It's so good.
27:29
Speaker 1: See you next time. Fox