Latest / Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast / MBA Wire Taps 400—Conflict zone work, Round 2 Strategy, Low GRE, retake decision

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MBA Wire Taps 400—Conflict zone work, Round 2 Strategy, Low GRE, retake decision · Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast

• 0:16
  Speaker A: Welcome to the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast. I'm Graham Richmond, and this is your Wiretaps for Monday, December 9, 2024. Are you looking for an MBA program where you'll be more than just a number? Vanderbilt business offers a personalized learning experience to help each stud reach their unique career goals. Whether you're looking to switch careers entirely or accelerate the path you're on, the Vanderbilt MBA program will provide you with the individual support you need to propel your career forward. Vanderbilt is currently waiving their $200 application fee for MBA Wiretaps listeners. To learn more about the Vanderbilt MBA program and to claim your application fee waiver, visit Business vanderbilt. Edu clearadmit. I'm joined by Alex Brown from Cornwall, England. Alex, how are things this week?
• 1:01
  Speaker B: Very good, thank you, Graham.
• 1:02
  Speaker A: So I was telling you before we pressed record that this is the 400th episode of the Clear Admit MBA Admissions Podcast, which I and I actually counted or went back and looked, And I think 283 of them are Wiretaps episodes, and then the rest are things like, you know, interviews with admissions directors or special guests on the show and things. So I cannot believe that there are 400 episodes of this show out there. It's just crazy.
• 1:27
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, that's fantastic. We must have been doing. Doing it for about five years then, based on those numbers.
• 1:32
  Speaker A: Oh, maybe more.
• 1:33
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:34
  Speaker A: I mean, maybe more. Yeah. It's when aliens land on Earth and find that there are 400 episodes of this show, they will really be puzzled about our society. But anyway, no one stopped us from recording them. So here we are again this week. What is the latest? I mean, we could talk about the show, but I know it's been a really crazy scene on Livewire and there's a lot of news that has been happening. Obviously we're recording this last week, but Stan has been issuing, you know, acceptances and there's more to come. And what. Yeah, what's. What's on the. What's forecast for this coming week? And what have you been seeing?
• 2:10
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, Stanford was right on cue. Right. I mean, their decision deadline for releasing decisions is scheduled. I think it was Thursday, and they started calling folks on Tuesday, which they've done consistently over the last several seasons. So great that the new ADCOM leader is sticking to the same process. Makes life a lot easier. Still not exactly sure what's happened at Kellogg in terms of the switch of their process this season, but that's maybe something we'll learn more about next week as they. As you Know as things start moving, moving forward. But yeah, lots of activity last week. As you noted, this upcoming week, many, many programs are releasing round one decisions. They include Rice, Jones, Wharton, McDonough, Kellogg, as I mentioned, Darden, Keenan, Flagler, Johns Hopkins, Carey, Arizona, Carey, MIT Sloan, Tuck, Hass, Fuqua. Olin's releasing its round two decisions. Anderson, Mendoza and Owen, also releasing round one decisions. And Said is releasing its stage three decisions. So we should anticipate quite a lot, a lot of activity in this upcoming week. Graham.
• 3:36
  Speaker A: And isn't Harvard this week, too? Did you say Harvard? I thought.
• 3:39
  Speaker B: Did I mention Harvard? If I didn't, I should have done.
• 3:43
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think that you didn't and I think they are maybe the 10th of December.
• 3:46
  Speaker B: Yeah, Harvard and Wharton are on the same day, so that's going to be really entertaining.
• 3:51
  Speaker A: I hope our site doesn't like Crash.
• 3:54
  Speaker B: But it's interesting because they have a slightly different process. Right. So Wharton will tend to call folks ahead of the decision, so they might start doing that the day before. I forget exactly whether they do that. Certainly when I was working at Wharton, we did it on the day the decision was going to be released, but nevertheless, we started calling before decisions were released. And Harvard releases decisions first.
• 4:24
  Speaker A: Yeah, that's right.
• 4:25
  Speaker B: Everything at once and then makes calls. They're one of the very few schools that adopts the process in that way, which, you know, you might argue, well, wouldn't it be better to call first and have that relationship and building. And that's why a lot of schools do it. But actually, from the candidate's point of view, releasing all decisions at the same time does reduce anxiety.
• 4:46
  Speaker A: Mm, yeah. No, but then it removes the element of surprise. Like, I'm sure that the Stanford team all last week was having a lot of fun calling people and saying, you know, it's, it's. Yeah, it's like a really exciting moment and I'm sure people are jumping up and down on the other end of that phone line, but yeah, I get it. So. Well, yeah. So I want to wish everyone luck if you're waiting for news. But, yeah, lots to come over on the website, we did an interesting piece about healthcare candidates going into healthcare from Tuck at Dartmouth. And so it's kind of these profiles of their forced that we kind of talked with. And I just wanted to share a short quote from one of these students because we asked them, why did you choose talk for your mba? And what factors were sort of most prominent in your decision? And I thought that one of the candidates gave a really Interesting response. He said, I knew if I was going to leave the workforce for two years, that it needed to be worthwhile. You hear a lot about the ROI of an mba, but I also knew I wanted to come out a better version of myself than I'd entered. A visit to Hanover made clear that Tuck would be invested in both my professional and personal development. Tuck's leadership orientation seemed like a good fit for my goals. The center for Healthcare felt personal and robust, and the Alumni network felt like I'd be joining a community larger than myself. So I thought that was interesting because we do hear so many candidates talking about, well, how much money am I going to make and what's the roi? And here this person's focused also on the kind of personal dimension and, as they say, coming out a better version of themselves than they'd entered the program. So that's kind of me interesting.
• 6:21
  Speaker B: No, I like it. I really like it. I mean, I'm not saying that's Tuck exclusive in terms of doing that, but it's certainly a great perspective in terms of why you're pursuing an mba.
• 6:31
  Speaker A: Yeah, totally. And then so speaking of all that, we, you know, we've been continuing to run a lot of admissions tips, and because it's kind of round one decisions and round two deadlines on the horizon, both of these tips are sort of reflective of that. So the first one is a tip that I'm hoping most people don't need to read, but it's about what to do if you're rejected in the first round. So it's sort of about how to reflect on your applications and re kind of position going into round two. And then the second tip we ran was about video essays. So so many schools now have a video component. So just prepping for that, if you're heading into those round two application deadlines, you need to know that those are coming in any event. Yeah. So lots of good admissions advice. And I believe, Alex, that in these, at least with the video essays, I believe there's even a. A little video that you and I recorded that talks about how to approach that stuff. So should be good reading and watching if you're applying around two.
• 7:28
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, absolutely. And in terms of, you know, how to handle rejections, I mean, it's clearly, it's not an easy thing to do. But the other thing that we'll see over the next week, as folks receive decisions from, let's say, 15, 20 of the top 30 MBA programs, they'll get perhaps some negative news at some schools, some positive news at others, and it won't always chime. So it might be, for example, that Harvard admits a candidate and Wharton denies them, or Stanford admits someone and Harvard denies them, or Kellogg admits someone but Ross denies them, et cetera, et cetera. And there are very good reasons for nuances. It's not just a complete random process which some will then speculate based off of that. But some of it really does rely on how much effort you put in to each of the applications. So you might have some bias towards a particular program and therefore you put a stronger profile in for that particular program, you might understand a particular program better. So, so the ad column is really resonating with your perspective in terms of why you want to be there, et cetera, et cetera. So even though we are very clear that there are certain tiers of programs and one tier is higher than the next, it doesn't always play out that way in the results part of the process. So, yeah, best of luck to everybody. But then reflecting on your overall, like how you've done in terms of then having a potential round two strategy or holding off till the next season or taking your safety school this season or whatever it might be. Yeah, best I know I'm waffling on now, so I just wish everybody the best of luck.
• 9:31
  Speaker A: So are you saying that even though the schools all have a certified exactly the same hat that they pull the names out of to decide who gets in, that it's not an exact science?
• 9:41
  Speaker B: It's not an exact science. It's art and science. Let's leave it at that.
• 9:47
  Speaker A: I agree. Speaking of all that, we did connect this past week with a bunch of students who are accepted students who are at some of these programs. One of them was UC Irvine Mirage, and we caught up with this woman named Manali, and she's from Chandler, Arizona, actually went to ASU for undergrad and studied business marketing and journalism. And you'll love this. Her job before business school was she was a big time kind of SEO expert and content manager for a number of different shops. So she's had a lot of experience in kind of digital marketing. And we asked her what is one part that you would have skipped if you could in terms of applying to business school and what helped you kind of get through it. And she said that if she could sort of undo something or part that she would have loved to have avoided is having doubt about applying. She said there are a lot of emotions that come with applying to business school and I wish I spent less time thinking about what I was leaving behind and more time being excited about what, what was to come after my application. Business school is an investment in yourself. And then she goes on and talks about how she's. I mean, she's having a blast in business school and is just so happy to have made the decision. So I think that's why she's sort of reflecting back and saying, wow, I shouldn't have been nervous about taking this leap at all.
• 11:02
  Speaker B: No, absolutely fantastic.
• 11:04
  Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And then we caught up with a student. The other group of students we talked to was from UC Berkeley, so the Haas School. And you'll love this. I think this person named Hannah lived not too far from where you used to live in the. Because it says Hannah is from Chadds Ford, Pennsylvania. Do you know where that is? I feel like that's not far, but.
• 11:22
  Speaker B: I know exactly where. Chadds Ford, Pennsylvania is on Route 1, just south of Philadelphia. Yeah, yeah.
• 11:29
  Speaker A: So.
• 11:29
  Speaker B: So absolutely my close to my stomping ground.
• 11:33
  Speaker A: Yeah. So Hannah, she's from there. She went to Penn State, studied marketing and then minored in Spanish and psych. And she has had a career before business school working in consumer packaged goods. She worked for Kind, which is a fairly well known cereal bar company, and then also worked for Kraft Heintz. So lots of CPG in her background. And we said to her, what's one thing you would change or do differently about applying to business school? And she said, I did the application process a little backwards and visited the schools once I got in versus prior to applying. If I were to do things differently, I would have visited the schools beforehand. This would have made the application process easier and I would have applied to less schools. And she also went on. I thought she had some really good comments. I want to share one other thing she said. We asked her what's one thing you would absolutely do again as part of your process? And she said, the application is a super introspective process and it requires you to really get to know yourself deeply. I found it really rewarding to get to know others through the process as well. And I definitely recommend it. The Berkeley application asks what makes you feel alive. And I asked a lot of my family and friends this question and learned so many new and interesting things about them. So that's kind of a fun thing, turning the essay around on your friends. If you're looking to do something with your friends and tired of answering these questions yourself.
• 12:54
  Speaker B: Yeah, no, I really like that. And someone from obviously Pennsylvania roots, Penn State, living in Chadds Ford now, ending up at Berkeley. I think that's probably quite an interesting story in of itself.
• 13:07
  Speaker A: Yeah, very interesting. Yeah, good point. Last thing before we talk about this week's candidates is another school has published their career stats and that school is NYU Stern. So I'll give you the numbers and then I'll get your take, Alex. So we'll start with the median salary which is $175,000. That's unchanged from last year. The average salary is $199,492 this year. And that's actually a tick down. It was $201,727 last year. So just a couple thousand dollars difference there. 273 of the 324 grads in the class of 2024 were looking for full time employment. Now, by three months post graduation, 84.6% of students had accepted a job offer. That number was higher last year. It was like 94%. So that number is off a bit. We look at industries that candidates are placed into and so We've got consulting, 37%. That's down from 41.9% last year. Financial services is 35.7%. That's up from 29.4% last year. Tech jobs 9% versus around 14% last year. Consumer packaged goods, 5.7%. That's up from 3. Entertainment, media and sports is at 3.9%. That's up just a tiny bit from last year. So those are the industries. And then one last thing, Alex. I'll give you the regional placements. And so there we've got people landing in the Northeast at 83.3%. That's up from 77%. We have 4.4% going to the West Coast. That's down from 8.2.7% last year. 2.2 to the Mid Atlantic, 2.2 to the South, 2.2 to the Southwest and 1.3 to the Midwest. Those numbers are not terribly different from past years. 95% of the class is working in the United states, so about 5% land overseas. Those are the numbers from NYU Stern. Alex, what are your thoughts?
• 15:14
  Speaker B: Really interesting. This I think is going to be. We're probably going to see a trend over the next several weeks with these career reports because that number percent employed after three months is down this season for Stern, as you, as you pointed out, and I suspect we'll see that from a number of other programs as I do believe the post MBA job market is more challenging this season for a variety of different reasons. I mean the economy and geopolitical climate and just recovering from COVID et cetera, et cetera. Added into the mix is obviously this sort of Gen AI trend, which is creating some anxiety about potential job losses, et cetera. So it doesn't surprise me, but that number is down. It'll be really interesting to see how that plays out with other schools. It doesn't surprise me that therefore Stern's sort of sectors in terms of financial services. To me, Stern's a go to place for financial services. Right. And that sort of increased in a more difficult climate, which I think makes a lot of sense, as does their concentration of candidates working closer to home, I.e. new York City in the Northeast, etc. So those trends again align. I think obviously the average starting salary is still very Strong, median average, etc. It's holding the same as the previous year, which in a bit of an inflationary environment, I suppose is slightly lower. But nevertheless, that number is strong. But I do think that seeing here at Stern is probably going to be repeated with many other programs. But it'd be interesting to see.
• 17:17
  Speaker A: Yeah, I think so. I can tell you that many schools are going to show similar numbers when it comes to that percent employed within three months of graduation. So, yeah, it's just been a more challenging environment because of the fact that a lot of the consulting firms kind of slowed their hiring. And you see those declines in tech as well. And so, yeah, Stern kind of relying on a great kind of local industry, which is finance, sending a lot of people there. And even more, like you're saying, consumer packaged goods and other things. And I think you lean on your alumni network more when the times are tough. And so a lot of those alums are in the New York area. So you see more people working in New York. But I mean, look, overall, pretty great numbers still. It's like if you had shown me these numbers like 10 years ago, I would have been like, wow, these are ridiculous off the charts numbers in terms of the starting salaries now and everything, but as you say, inflation. So it makes sense. But in any event, we will see. We'll keep sharing these as they come out. Alex, I think we should get into our candidates for this week. I did want to remind people you can write to us@infoearadmit.com we love getting your mail and we always write back. So please do write if you feel like reaching out and just letting us know that we should stop at 400 episodes or whatever you want to share. But Alex, anything else before we talk about this week's candidates?
• 18:35
  Speaker B: Let's kick on.
• 18:36
  Speaker A: All right, so this is WireTaps candidate number one. So our first candidate this week has five schools on the target list. And they're going to be applying now in round two to start school next fall. The schools they're interested in are Dartmouth, Harvard, Stanford, Wharton and Yale. This candidate has been working as a program manager for a humanitarian international ngo. And they want to do something entrepreneurial, but also, it sounds like, linked to nonprofit social impact. After business school. Their GMAT score is a 685. That's the newer version of the GMAT, if memory serves, that is roughly a 730 if you're still getting used to the new scoring system. They have a 3.27 undergraduate GPA and they actually attended an Ivy League League school that they transferred into after a year at a state school. They have four years of work experience to date. This is a US citizen, but they're currently living and working abroad. They didn't tell us the exact location, but we'll get into that. They also noted, they said, longtime listener, first time caller on their post and they said they love the podcast and that they're adding their profile just because I want to be part of the community, end quote, which I thought was great. Just to give you a little more detail, this work that they're doing in humanitarian aid type work is in kind of post conflict settings. So they're saying think Afghanistan, Yemen, et cetera. And they have several million dollars in project budget under management. They're overseeing multiple teams. This person will have been an emergency aid for two years by the time they matriculate. But prior to this, their career was a year as a quantitative analyst and then a year teaching English abroad. So a little bit of moving around and some interesting, you know, certainly that the most recent experience sounds pretty fascinating. They did share the fact that they do a lot of extracurriculars focused on social entrepreneurship and you know, also pretty into mountain climbing. And I, I feel like there was something else here about how, yeah, they grew up in a single parent home, lower income, and that's about it. So I'll stop there, Alex, because there's a lot of information here. But what do you make of this candidacy?
• 21:00
  Speaker B: What's not to like? I mean, this profile I think is extraordinary and I think if you look at the top MBA programs and you look at their mission statements and look, you know, they'll talk about, you know, we want, want to educate global leaders and they'll add some social entrepreneurship type stuff in their mission statements to make the world better through commerce, through X through Y, whatever it might be. Well, surely this person really hits the target right through the eyes. Right. So I really think the profile itself is super attractive to top tier business schools. So, you know, for a variety of different reasons, they're also a bootstrapper, right. So they're coming from a lower income background. They've obviously done very well. They started off in a state school, which nothing wrong with that they then. But they then transferred into an Ivy League school. So it'd be quite interesting to hear what prompted that transition. They're a little bit worried that their GPA is on the, you know, it's 327. But I mean they've got a really strong GMAT score. They also have a master's degree out of the uk so that's very good. They've also gone on and taken a calculus class and got an A minus. So it seems to me that they've done all the right things to potentially fix or fix potentially the weakest aspect of their profile, I. E. The overall gpa. But I mean, Graham, you can't imagine the stories this person will be able to tell through their MBA experience, etc. So they're really going to enrich the experience for other candidates in the program that they attend. But also just their aspirations going forward, which are really anchored on realism. That is they walk the walk, they're in a conflict zone as they pointed out. They're doing that type of work already. I just think this is a really fantastic profile. Now in terms of their target schools, they've obviously targeted the very best, which I completely encourage them to do. And then they've added a couple of other programs, I think Yale and Tuck, which are outstanding programs, but there is a little bit of a gap in their target programs. Right. So they've got, you know, a couple, two or three of the Trinity and then Yale and Yale and talk, I think it is. So they might want to look at, you know, one or two of the other M7 just in between. Maybe they're appealing too just to make sure that they get the right opportunities because they should also be looking at top program with scholarship.
• 24:07
  Speaker A: Yeah, it's tricky. I mean, I think so on the one hand, I'm very much on the same page as you. This seems like a fantastic candidate, particularly the recent work experience, these two years doing humanitarian work. And as you say, they would be such an interesting voice to have in the classroom. If I have to play devil's advocate, the things that jump out at me. As concerns are, the gmat is about a 730 on the old scale, 685 on the new exam, which is going to hit right around the average. But the GPA was just above a 3 once they transferred to the Ivy. Now, as you point out, they went off and they got a master's degree, which they did exceedingly well in after that in the uk. And they also have taken calculus. And you throw that together with this amazing work experience, and I think they'll be able to overcome it. But to your point, it's good that they're casting a little bit of a net here in terms of Harvard, Stanford and Wharton, but then adding in tock Yale. Yeah, it couldn't hurt to look a little bit further afield, too. Like you're saying, there's that little gap, but it might be that they just really feel an affinity for the environment that a place like Talk or Yale will foster and maybe some of the impact type stuff we think about a school like Yale. So I get the selection of schools. I just think, yeah, I'm hoping the application is really compelling in terms of the stories that are told, et cetera, because the downside would be someone looks at the profile and says, yeah, numbers not jumping off the page. And they kind of bounced around from analyst job for a year teaching English. Are they trying to find themselves? And then they land in this new role, which is great, but they've only been there for a couple of years. So that's the downside way to look at it. But I'm going to be optimistic and suggest that as long as the essays come together, recommendations, et cetera, that I think they're going to be compelling and we'll get into one of these five, no doubt.
• 25:58
  Speaker B: I'd hope you wouldn't be on the admissions committee at the school I ever applied to. Grant. You're a little bit of a down on this one, I think.
• 26:05
  Speaker A: Well, I try. You know, I have to play devil's advocate a little bit, but I do think, I mean, this is a candidate who, you know, could add a lot to the class, so. All right. So I do want to thank them for sharing and yeah, just for the work they're doing, too, because it sounds like it's dangerous.
• 26:19
  Speaker B: Wish them luck. Yes. Not just to get into a top program, Graham, but to survive and get into an MBA program would be fantastic.
• 26:29
  Speaker A: Exactly. Yeah. So good luck. And I'm glad that they're enjoying the podcast. I can't believe that the podcast is playing in whatever country they're, they're roaming around in. So that's awesome. But in any event. Yeah, so let's, let's thank them for that post and move on and talk about wiretaps. Candidate number two. So our second candidate this week is applying to just two schools and those schools are Berkeley and Harvard. Now I say that because they're applying to those schools in round two. They actually did already apply in round one to a handful of schools including Columbia, a joint degree at Columbia for it's an mba, Ms. They applied to Cornell Tech mba, USC Marshall, and they also applied to NYU Tech mba. So they're kind of thinking of adding some schools in round two. This person has been working in tech. They want to stay in that domain after business school and are targeting Amazon, Apple, Microsoft. Their GMAT score is a 675, which again is around 730 or so. 3.2 GPA, 5 years of work experience. They're located in India and they want to land in the Bay Area or New York after business school. They basically are, you know, written into us because they're curious about their round two strategy and what they should do. So they mentioned they've done two and a half years of work at Deloitte Strategy Consulting that were promoted. They also have worked at a unicorn tech startup for a year. They founded their own startup and they're currently working at an early tech startup as a program manager. In the short and long term, they're really thinking about entrepreneurship but flexible to kind of head into a tech company right after graduation. And again they've applied to a handful of schools around 1. The only data points they have are that they've gotten interviews and they were thus far wait listed at NYU Tech mba. No other results yet. And so Alex, you had a bit of back and forth with this candidate, but do you want to outline what your thinking is and what they might do in round two?
• 28:29
  Speaker B: Yeah, I mean I really again, I think this candidate has very good work experience in terms of, I mean obviously very different work experience to our first candidate, but nevertheless very good work experience in the startup ecosystem out in India. And you know, again, they've sort of walked the walk, the talk or talk the walk, whatever you call it in that domain. So that makes their gold very realistic, et cetera, et cetera in terms of tech innovation or whatever it might be. 675 GMAT is, you know, it's a decent GMAT score. My concern with the candidate is that potentially over, you know, from an overrepresented population, so they do the right thing. They applied in round one. That's the best way to mitigate that potential concern. And from round one, they've got interview invites at Columbia, Cornell Tech and Marshall. They're wait listed at Stern's Tech program without an interview. So that to me is not a positive signal, unfortunately. So it's kind of like, all right, you're thinking about round two strategy. Obviously they'll know the results of Columbia, Cornell Tech and Marshall before they have to pull the trigger on their round two applications. But I would if I was them, not just focus on moving up for round two, that is Harvard and Haas, because again, as coming from a potentially overrepresented population, things will be just more difficult, more challenging in round two, as many of those slots may have been filled in round one for a lot of these programs. So I would also consider maybe programs like tepa, a couple of other programs in that sort of similar tier if they want absolute assurance that they get access to a top MBA program in the US this season. So I think they need to spend a bit more time looking at the likes of Tepper, maybe Gozetta and a couple of others from that tier to sort of provide a little bit more of an opportunity. Graham?
• 30:55
  Speaker A: Yeah, and as you say, like, the real issue here is what's going to happen in round one, because that will shape the targets. I mean, if they run the table and end up. Well, they won't run the table because they were waitlisted at cern. But if they get into Columbia and Cornell and Marshall and stuff, then why not, yeah, go. Go big and throw in some dream schools in round two. But if they don't, they're going to need to pivot. And I think consider those schools that you're mentioning. And the problem is that ideally they would get started now, even though the temptation is to wait. But by the time you get to mid December, you're missing a week or two here where you could be working on applications. So I understand and I would say get started. I do share your concerns. They're in India. It sounds like they have kind of a tech, mostly a tech background. I don't know where they went to undergrad, if it was one of the IITs or a really great school. They just give a GPA of 3.2. I don't know if it's converted or how they're sharing that. But yeah, as you say, they could be very overrepresented in the pool. So it's just, yeah, I think they're Going to need to see where the chips fall. I'm feeling kind of like wait lists might be in their future a little bit because that's often what happens with a candidate that's not jumping and off the page with numbers and that is kind of overrepresented in the pool. You kind of want to wait and see. So we'll see what happens. But I get what they're saying and I have no problem with them trying to go aim big in round two if they get some good news in round one. That's a very common strategy. And why not try to, you know, try. Try to go, go for the gold kind of thing. So I guess we'll just have to see how things turn out.
• 32:31
  Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, for sure. And best of luck.
• 32:33
  Speaker A: Yeah. So I want to thank them for their post. Let's move on and talk about our third candidate. So this is wiretap candidate number three. So this candidate has seven schools on the target list. The schools are Carnegie Mellon, Duke, Michigan, Notre Dame, unc, uva, and Vanderbilt. This candidate has been working in banking and they're going to be applying in round two to start in the fall of 25. They would love after business school to either work in consulting or maybe commercial banking. And so they list a number of firms. Accenture, Kearney, Bain, bank of America. This person has a GPA of 3.64 and a GRE of 306. They have five years of work experience to date. They are located in Africa. They didn't specify the country. And they mentioned that they recently wrote the GRE where they earned that 3, 306. And they admit, they say it's not a super score, but I'll probably apply with it anyway. I'm still considering retaking the test, but the next time I can take it is right around the round two deadline. So they're still trying to figure that out. They mentioned their background educationally is in social sciences, so not very quant heavy. And that they're looking at taking some additional quant courses to back up their GRE score. And they sort of also point out that the exam fee to take the GRE is 10 times the minimum wage in their country. So, Alex, I presume they don't mean the annual minimum wage. They must mean like monthly or something. I don't know what they're getting at, but that's. It sounds like it's very expensive for them to take the test, which was, you know, it's unfortunate to hear that. But what's your take on this candidacy? Because they have a lot of schools on the target list. A little bit of a range in terms of admissions difficulty. But that GRE score is kind of sticking out to me.
• 34:27
  Speaker B: Yeah. And a big shout out to our sponsor. I see Vanderbilt on the target list. That's very good. But I do think that this is a classic case of there is one element of this profile that's particularly weak relative to everything else in this profile. So the reality is that will be the most important aspect of their candidacy because it'll be the aspect that limits their opportunity. Right. So I made this case on a lot of different profiles over these last four or five years we've been doing this. So it really behooves the candidate to the extent that they can to improve the weakest element of their profile. Obviously in this case it's the 306 on the GRE, presuming that their work experience is strong, et cetera, et cetera. Their GPA is very decent. Again, you mentioned it's in the social sciences. So Maybe on that 306 GRE, there's a pretty good imbalance too in terms of the quant side, and we don't know that. But to the extent that they can drop everything and really you prep hard and invest in retaking the GRE in time for that round two deadline, I think we'll pay dividends. Because if this GRE is in the 320s, you know, or at or close to the medians of some of these programs, I think they're going to get opportunities. But it's going to be a stretch, a bit of a reach for some of these programs with a candidate that has that score and potentially a significant weakness on the quant side because they're really concerned about that first quarter, that first semester, making sure that folks can really thrive in maybe a particularly heavy quant curriculum, etc. So really encourage them to retake the GRE. It can have very big impact. But also to do the MBA math concurrently.
• 36:46
  Speaker A: Yeah. It's a tricky situation that they're in because. Yeah. So MBA math will help, but the GRE score is. It's not just low. Low would be like a 3, 318 or something like being sort of out of the bounds of what the averages are. It's sort of another factor below that. Right. So I think that's why it really stands out. And because their background isn't quant heavy, you know, it's sort of like, oh, you know. Because as you just said, the schools are looking. We always talk about this, but the schools are looking to make sure that candidates can come in and thrive in the program and not struggle academically. And I will admit, you know, that first semester of business school is a quantitative, you know, kind of obstacle course for people who are not numbers oriented. So they really need to see that you're going to be ready. So MBA math will help, but I think if they can swing it, take the test again before they apply in round two, or even just tell the committee I wasn't happy with my test score. It's the first time I've taken this test and I've scheduled a date to take it. And I'll be furnishing you with a new score as soon as I have it if they feel like they need another few weeks to prep for it. So either way, it's something they're going to need to address because otherwise it seems like a quality profile and some good experience and someone who would add.
• 38:01
  Speaker B: To the classroom even some nice extracurriculars. So really, this is the weakest element. So to the extent they can, let's see if we can improve their opportunities.
• 38:14
  Speaker A: Yeah. So I want to thank them for their post. Alex, Even in our 400th episode, we still never seem to be running out of stuff to talk about because we're way over time this week. But in any event, I'll find you next week and we'll do this again if you're willing.
• 38:28
  Speaker B: Very good. Stay safe, everyone. Take care. There's.