Latest / Podcasts By Donna Jodhan / Remarkable World Commentary Episode #92: Interview with Paul Gareau

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Remarkable World Commentary Episode #92: Interview with Paul Gareau · Podcasts By Donna Jodhan

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Podcast Commentator: Greetings, Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, and MBA invites you to listen to
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her biweekly podcast, Remarkable World Commentary.
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Here, Donna shares some of her innermost thoughts,
1:36
insights, perspectives, and more with her listeners.
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Donna focuses on topics that directly affect the future of kids,
1:44
especially kids with disabilities.
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Donna is a blind advocate, author, sight loss coach,
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dinner mystery producer, writer, entrepreneur,
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law graduate, and podcast commentator.
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She has decades of lived experiences, knowledge,
2:02
skills and expertise in access, technology and information.
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As someone who has been internationally recognized for her work and roles,
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she just wants to make things better than possible.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Remarkable World Commentary.
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I am Donna J. Jodhan, a lifelong disability advocate and one who
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sees the world mainly through sound, touch and stubborn optimism.
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I am a law graduate, an accessibility consultant,
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author, lifelong barrier buster who also happens to be blind.
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You may know me from a few headline moments, as in November 2010,
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I won the landmark charter case that forced the Canadian government to make its websites
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accessible to every Canadian, not just to sighted ones.
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And in July of 2019, I co-led the Accessible Canada Act with more than two dozen
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disability groups to turn equal access into federal law.
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And most recently, on June the 3rd, 2022, I was greatly humbled by Her Late
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Majesty Platinum Jubilee Award for her tireless work with with tireless work and
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commitment to removing barriers.
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When I'm not in a courtroom or a committee room or a pottery studio,
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you will find me coaching kids with vision loss,
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producing audio mysteries, or helping tech companies to make their
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gadgets talk back in plain language.
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Everything I do circles one goal to turn accessibility from an afterthought into
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everyday practice. I invite you to think of this show as our shared workbench,
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where policy meets lived experience and lived experience sparks fresh ideas.
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Now, before we jump into today's conversation,
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let me shine a spotlight on today's guest, a change maker whose work is every bit as
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remarkable as the world that we are trying to build.
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I am honored and I am pleased and privileged to welcome Paul Garrow.
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Paul and I go back a very long time, and I will share with my listeners that Paul
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is responsible for the doctor who gave me my first corneal transplant,
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doctor, Joel Rosen. Paul, welcome to our podcast.
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Paul Gareau: Thank you so much, Donna.
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It's a real pleasure to be with you and touch base with you again.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, indeed. So, Paul, after Loyola, you went on to earn your Master
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of Social work at the University of Toronto on a full academic scholarship.
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And then you came back to Quebec to work with the Polyvalent secondary school population at
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the centre de service socio the last three in Sherbrooke.
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What pulled you toward direct on this ground?
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Social work with young people in those very first years of your career.
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Paul Gareau: The interesting question. Thanks, Donna. I, I,
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I went to Loyola High School, as you mentioned,
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and then I went to Loyola College to get a B.A.
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in sociology, and I found it fascinating to study societal problems.
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But I thought, you know, I wouldn't mind trying to do something about
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them. So I investigated social work.
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I had taken an introduction to social work course in my undergraduate studies,
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and the prof was was a practitioner and he brought in different community group
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representatives. And I just thought it was fascinating. So I applied to U of T and got
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into their Master of Social work program.
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And I had a number of different placements.
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And it was at that time that I realized that I was really drawn to working with youth.
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So I had the opportunity to do so at, as you mentioned,
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at the Saint Silvester in Sherbrooke, Quebec,
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and I was hired to work at a high school to be the social worker there.
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And I was very anxious to start.
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When I got there, there were 1800 kids and there was one social worker.
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So I had a lot to learn.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, Whoa!
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Paul Gareau: Yeah, but I was I was drawn to it because young people can go through difficult times.
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And it was my feeling that if they could make it through those challenges at that at that
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young age, it can really make a difference to their life then and in the years going
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forward. So it was it was fascinating to work.
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I had, as I said, I had much to learn as a young neophyte social worker,
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but it was a it was a fascinating experience and one I treasured.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Now, in 1976, you joined the Montreal Association for the blind as a social worker.
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The start of what became a 30 year journey.
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Looking back, what was it about the MLB and the visually impaired community in Montreal
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that captured your heart and made you decide to stay?
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Paul Gareau: Yeah. I remember coming to the Montreal Association for the blind,
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for my for my job interview.
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And when I walked into the place, it was just so welcoming.
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I'm sure that you and your listeners have had that same experience.
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You walked into an organization and it just felt good.
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It felt welcoming, and it felt like a place you'd want to be.
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Right. The people, as you know, because you were you're a part of the family.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes, I was.
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Paul Gareau: People were so warm. They were friendly.
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They were professional.
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It felt like a good place to be.
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And I also, during that day that I was doing the interview,
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I had the opportunity to meet with blind and visually impaired staff and clients.
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And I realized in speaking with them and spending some time that I could,
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I could really have a lot that I could learn from them.
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So I was fortunate I got the job.
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And as you say, it was the beginning of what ended up being a 30 year career at the Mab.
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I was and I was just really fortunate to have been a part of the Mabee family for,
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for all those years. It was was a great place to work.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It sure was. And I will always remember the first day I walked in there,
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I was just a kid. I was a teenager.
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And it was so welcoming, you know, like people were great people,
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you know, reached out, want to help you out and everything.
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I remember the day you became our social worker and,
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you know, it was quite something else.
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You know.
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Paul Gareau: We won't say how many years ago that.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No, no, no, we don't, we won't, we won't know.
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Gosh, now, many of our listeners may not realize that the Penfield's reception Center,
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which you directed from 1979 to 1985, was formally opened to
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the Mab in 1973 by the legendary neurosurgeon,
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Doctor Wilder Penfield himself.
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Can you describe what daily life at Penfield was like for clients and staff,
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and what running that site taught you about how Rehabilitation Center truly comes
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alive?
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Paul Gareau: Yeah. Penfield was a residential rehab program at at the Montreal Association for
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the blind, for Blind and visually Impaired young adults,
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and many of whom had other additional disabilities.
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So during the day, there were one on one and group habilitation and rehab programs for
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each client. We were very lucky at Penfield.
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We had a staff of special care counselors, but there were additional staff from the Mab
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occupational therapy orientation and mobility instruction,
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etc. to really give the program a full gamut of services.
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So the days were pretty, pretty busy with with programming for each
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client. Evenings and weekends were a lot more fun in some ways.
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We got to, we got to do a number of activities,
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outings, barbecues, you know, that kind of thing.
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The, the staff were were exceptional.
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All of us at Penfield, I think from clients and staff and
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volunteers, we were back then, we were all pretty young.
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And I think in many ways, we grew up together at Penfield and in many
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ways as well. It was a home for us all.
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There were friendships that were formed there that amongst staff and clients and volunteers
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that were to last a lifetime.
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And it was, it was a remarkable experience.
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I was, I was blessed to have the opportunity to be part of it.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, that's where I got my start to.
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When I came to Montreal, it was at Penfield.
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No kidding. Yeah.
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Paul Gareau: I, you know, I, I thought so, but I didn't want to say anything in case my
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memory failed me. Really?
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So what was what was your what was your feeling about it from,
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from a client point of view?
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh, Paul. It was overwhelming to me.
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But you know what? Staff made me feel so welcomed.
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And, and the other roommates that I had, you know,
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like Christine and Charlene.
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Right, right. And Eve and I could go on and on.
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We were family, you know, like I was far away from home.
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And they made me feel that I had a home, a new home.
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Yeah.
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Paul Gareau: It really it really was something special.
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I just, I look back on it and as I say, we're it sounds trite,
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but it's not. It was it was a real valuable experience of feeling that this was a home
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for us all. And it was, it was extremely special.
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What was the, what was, if you had a highlight from it, what would be
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a highlight from your time at Penfield or a memory that really sticks out in your mind.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: The day we met Doctor Wilder Penfield.
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You know, like. Right.
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I didn't quite understand who he was at first.
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And then staff member said, do you know who he is?
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And I said, I'm not sure.
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And then they educated me and I thought.
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And I shook his hand and he said, when's your birthday?
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And I told him, and he says, well, my birthday is almost the same day.
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And I thought, I wonder if he's putting me on or what is he doing here?
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But I shook his hand. I'll never forget that night.
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Paul Gareau: It was. There was a. There was a plaque when you when you walked into Penfield?
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Yeah. With the name of Penfield Penfield House,
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and it was named after him.
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And I can remember seeing that when I.
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Every day when I walked in.
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But I'm like you, I was I was a little.
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I was taken aback when I met the man in person.
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He was just a. It was just something very special.
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Really special.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Yeah.
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Paul Gareau: So you were at Penfield for.
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For how long?
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I was at Penfield for a year and a half.
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All right. All right. I still kept going back.
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I still. Kept. Going back.
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I, I had to go back and, and, you know, interact and engage with,
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with the roommates that I had left.
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Right. But you know, this and I made long, life long friendships with,
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with some of the staff members too.
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Paul Gareau: It's amazing. I mean, the, the staff all went on after Penfield to
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do so many. They were all successful in very different ways in the helping professions
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volunteers to was, was a touching experience for,
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for them. I got amazing feedback from, from people who said that in some ways it
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changed their life. Just to know that that kind of a place could exist was,
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was, was something special.
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So yeah, it's it's, I think you have to have lived it to appreciate it.
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And it was, it was only when, when it was over that I began to realize,
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you know, how fortunate we were to have that time to,
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to be there at Penfield together.
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It was an incredible experience.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I think. Well, I know like for me, I always try to appreciate it the best way I
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could, but when I actually left it and then I moved to Toronto,
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I cried, I cried, I, I missed it, I missed the whole maybe not just Penfield.
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Paul Gareau: Yeah, maybe. I think I always say that like Penfield was like a home and the map was like
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a family. And just Yeah, just something special.
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And you kind of had to experience it to to to believe it.
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So it's neat to hear what, what your recollections are.
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And as I say, we're going back a few years.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, yeah, we. Were going back many years.
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But, you know, the one thing I will always remember when I graduated with my Bachelor of
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Commerce from Concordia University, and all the staff members were out cheering
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and I thought, what are they really cheering about?
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And then someone said, they're cheering about you,
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you idiot. You know, and they supported me all the way.
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You're not going to get that today.
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You know.
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Paul Gareau: It's it was it's hard to find any time, but I think it's especially more difficult to
16:12
more difficult today is the service delivery systems have changed to some degree.
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Yeah. But yeah, we, we had something special going there and it was like,
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I think we all were learning how to be more independent together.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, yeah.
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Paul Gareau: And I think we were all really looked at it as an opportunity to learn from each other
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and be with each other.
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And it was yeah, it was just a really amazing time.
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People. I've run into people you know, years later and who have gone on to do some
16:48
incredible things in the professions and all of them have the same feeling they look back
16:53
on Penfield is just this special experience that was they've never been able to replicate
16:58
really anywhere else.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So no.
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Paul Gareau: I'm glad to hear you. You felt, you know, the same way from a from a client
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perspective.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I did, I did, and I will never, ever forget it.
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And I, you know, I don't know if there's going to be a reunion one day or could there
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be one?
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Paul Gareau: Yeah. You know, we, we had a small get together not that long ago,
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but it's something that you know, we try to keep in touch and it's,
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it's harder to do as the years go by.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah, yeah yeah yeah. Oh, gosh.
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Yes. Now during those same deputy editor years,
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you were also enrolled in Concordia's evening program for the Diploma in Institutional
17:46
Administration, earning a place on the Dean's Honor roll while running a full time
17:56
portfolio at the MEB. Wow.
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What drove you to take on that kind of academic load?
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Mid-career. And what did the DIA ultimately unlock for you?
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Paul Gareau: Well, I moved on from Penfield and became the deputy executive director,
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which took me further into the management area,
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which is something I didn't have a lot of experience in.
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And it was it was I was lucky in the DG role,
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that deputy DG role that I got to get some experience in working with the Quebec
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Ministry of Health and Social Services, the local Health and Social Services
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Commission, and work collaboratively with other rehab centres as.
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As the. It was required.
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But I came to realize that I needed to add some new tools to my skill toolbox.
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Something I'm sure that you found in your career to at some point with,
19:04
with all the courses in the many degrees that you've amassed.
19:08
So I found that graduate program at an institutional administration at the John
19:14
Molson School of Business at Concordia.
19:17
And I thought it might help give me the background that I was missing in finance,
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accounting, marketing, management, leadership.
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Right. I had the clinical skills, but I didn't have the managerial background.
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So I found the program was really interesting.
19:31
It gave me, you know, what I needed, I think from a managerial
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point of view. But the other thing I realized when I was completing it,
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it gave me a different perspective on how to look at a rehab center.
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I always looked at it from a clinical point of view,
19:46
and looking at it from a quote unquote business point of view.
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It gives you another perspective and it allows you to,
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you know, have a have a wider experience in which to make decisions that are going to
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affect the organization.
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So ultimately proved very helpful going forward.
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It really I think it, you have to look at in your career,
20:11
what areas you can continue to work on to improve and meet the different situations
20:16
that you're going to encounter. And I thought this was,
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this was one of the helpful things to, from a managerial point of view,
20:22
to get me going down that road, you know?
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Well equipped.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It must have been a lot of hard work, like your full time job during the day and at
20:31
night you're off to school.
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Yes.
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Paul Gareau: Yeah. And, you know, you're, you know as well as anyone.
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Your weekends and your evenings are kind of shut.
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So you have your your days pretty full with your full time job,
20:44
and your evenings and weekends are filled with your education.
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But you know, I think it's a worthwhile investment to make.
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It's one, you know, it's hard to do, but it was it was,
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as I say, it was really useful to me in getting skills that,
21:00
that I was really lacking if I was going to continue on a managerial path.
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So yeah, it's, it's always difficult, I think,
21:08
to do evening courses.
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And I have utmost respect for the people that do them because I know it can be a slog at
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times.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: But you had to really balance your life a lot during that time,
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didn't you? Yeah.
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Paul Gareau: I'm well, I'm sure, you know, getting your law degree,
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I'm sure was no easy feat for you either.
21:25
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: No.
21:25
Paul Gareau: And I'm sure you found your evenings and weekends pretty full as well.
21:30
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Now, by the time that you were executive director of the Mab.
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The Mab was serving roughly 2000.
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200,000 blind and vision impaired clients a year,
21:51
and with a budget of about $8 million.
21:55
168 employees and a service of more than 300 volunteers.
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Okay. Paint a picture for our listeners of just how wide that organization's reach truly
22:15
was. From the Low Vision Clinic to the orientation and mobility instructors out in
22:25
the community and the technical Aids boutique with its 200 plus adapted devices.
22:35
Quite a mouthful. Tell us.
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Paul Gareau: Yeah, we we were really happy to have the range of services that we were able to offer
22:44
at MBB. We served a number of clients per year,
22:48
usually about 3 to 4000 clients a year.
22:51
We had a number of full time and part time employees.
22:55
The rehab side was organized along multidisciplinary teams by age groups.
23:00
So we had an early intervention team, a youth team,
23:04
an adult team, and a seniors team.
23:06
And the services that were available from those teams was wide ranging.
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We had social work. We had low vision services,
23:15
orientation and mobility.
23:16
We had training in computer technology, something I'm sure that for you has been a
23:22
lifelong learning skill.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
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Paul Gareau: Yeah. Occupational therapy, communication skills.
23:29
Daily living skills. We had yeah, we had a library with 845 people users.
23:36
We had a visual Aids program.
23:39
We had Gilman residents for seniors, which.
23:42
Which had 70 seniors in residents.
23:45
We had a day center for 310 blind seniors.
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We had a technical Aids boutique with the day.
23:53
We had about 7000 users per year utilizing that service.
23:57
We operated Philip Layton School on site in collaboration with the local school board for
24:03
36 students, and we had 61 students integrated into public schools throughout the
24:09
English Montreal School Board, as you mentioned,
24:11
we had 300 volunteers, and I can't stress enough how important
24:16
volunteers were to be able to provide everything that we we felt we needed to
24:21
provide to our clientele.
24:23
We had an employment integration program where we had 163 users per year going through
24:29
that. We had a Braille production program where we produced over 30,000 pages of text
24:36
transcribed into Braille, and we had leisure time activities.
24:40
We had a weaving group, we had a ham radio group,
24:43
and we had 86 clients to 100 clients per year in our cheerio program,
24:48
which was bingo and other activities for blind seniors.
24:52
So in looking at, you know, take taking a view from 100,000ft,
24:59
we had the, we had just a number of services,
25:02
a full range of services for people.
25:04
And we were extremely fortunate to be able to have all those services.
25:08
But what the Mab was really about, besides the programs and the statistics,
25:14
really what the Mab was all about was people.
25:16
And we were very blessed to have the staff, the board of directors,
25:22
the management, the clients and the volunteers that we had to make it the special
25:26
place it was.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, I'll share two little stories.
25:30
One of them, one of my volunteer readers is now my lifelong friend.
25:35
And almost every year we travel together across Europe.
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Wow. Yeah. Her name is Jill Bond, and I'm meeting her in a week from now.
25:46
And we're going to be off doing a trip.
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Where are you going? I'm all.
25:51
I'm meeting her in London, and then we're going to Europe,
25:55
and we are going to be doing an evaluation for a cruise company.
25:59
We're starting off in Denmark.
26:01
Amsterdam. We're going to Norway.
26:03
Sweden, Finland. Poland.
26:08
France. Oh. Wow. I mean, you don't get these lifelong relationships
26:15
very, very often. You don't.
26:17
Right, right. So.
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Paul Gareau: Well, that's really special, isn't it?
26:22
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It is. And then, you know, like the librarian,
26:25
Dorothy Allen. Right? Don't know.
26:27
Dorothy is still with us or not, but she was,
26:30
I don't know. Do you know if she.
26:32
Paul Gareau: I'm not sure. I'm not sure.
26:34
But she was a special lady for sure.
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Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes she was. And then we had Marian Torpey.
26:39
This. Port operator, and Nicole and Ellie Ann and Mr.
26:44
Evans and Doctor Sims.
26:46
Well, most of them are now gone Yeah.
26:49
Paul Gareau: Doctor Sims was special.
26:50
He was executive director.
26:52
And when I began my career and he appointed me as deputy director general.
26:57
So I had so much that I could learn from him.
26:59
He was he was an amazing fellow.
27:01
I mean, he was he was head of the English Montreal school board.
27:05
He was the mayor of Montreal West.
27:07
He was a Protestant minister, and he was the executive director of Mab.
27:10
So I I had a lot I could learn from a man of his stature.
27:16
And he was, he was he was unbelievably supportive and just a role model for,
27:21
for me. So a real gentleman and an excellent professional.
27:26
You you knew him as well?
27:28
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I did, yeah. I did, and he did a lot for me.
27:31
And he always had time to listen to me.
27:34
And I'll never forget, I had an awful accident in 1981,
27:38
and one of the first people to show up at the hospital was Doctor Sims.
27:44
You know, and he said to me, do you want a chaplain to come by?
27:48
I said, you you'll do Doctor Sims.
27:50
It's fine. You know.
27:52
Paul Gareau: Isn't that something.
27:53
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: It is, it is. I mean, you you just don't you don't get these types
27:59
of relationships anywhere else.
28:00
You don't not in today's world.
28:03
Paul Gareau: A I think I know sometimes when I'm singing the praises of maybe to someone who,
28:08
you know, didn't benefit from the experience, I don't think they quite believe it. You
28:11
know.
28:12
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: That.
28:13
Paul Gareau: That, that, that, that can happen.
28:15
But if you know, as you know, if you meet anybody that manages to be,
28:19
you know, part of that family it was something special.
28:24
So wow, that's, that's an amazing story about Doctor Sims.
28:27
So much like him.
28:29
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
28:30
Paul Gareau: Yeah. Wow. And your volunteer reader, how many years is that now?
28:35
That friendship? Or should we or should we even go there?
28:37
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: We won't go there. But I will.
28:39
Tell you, it's. Oh, gosh, it's probably almost half my life,
28:43
you know, like. Wow. You know, like, I never thought that we would,
28:48
you know, retain a relationship.
28:51
And my best friend Charlene, right.
28:53
When I met her so many years ago, the very first day.
28:56
So I walked into the MAB my parents left me there and said,
29:00
now you better make this happen.
29:02
And I thought, oh dear.
29:04
So we sat down to lunch and, and they were serving Mexican chicken.
29:08
And Shah said, would you like my chicken?
29:11
I said, I guess I would, and she flung it into my plate.
29:15
It spattered all over my face, my sweater, my hair,
29:19
my everything. From then we were good friends,
29:22
you know, we were best of friends.
29:23
And I'll never forget it.
29:25
And like I said, when when you recommended Doctor Joel Rosen.
29:31
I'll never forget that you came to visit me at the hospital that night,
29:34
and I knew then I that I was going to get vision because I could see through the patch
29:39
in my eye. Wow. I could see colors, I could see things.
29:43
And I thought, this is not happening to me, is it?
29:47
Wow. Yeah. Yeah.
29:49
Paul Gareau: Amazing, amazing. Amazing stuff.
29:52
I saw Charlene just the other day.
29:54
There was one of One of our employees was ex-employees from MB.
29:58
Was retiring after 40 years.
30:00
And and there was this, there was a little a little do.
30:04
And cha was there. So.
30:06
And in good in good form.
30:07
So next time I see her, I'll pass along your good,
30:10
good wishes.
30:11
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah yeah.
30:12
Paul Gareau: Yeah.
30:13
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So in 1993, Mab participated in a Quebec government pilot to establish a
30:23
formal users committee, Giving clients real representation on the
30:30
board from your seat at the leadership table.
30:36
Why did giving blind and visually impaired clients in a formal voice in government
30:44
matters so much matter to you?
30:48
And what changed? Once it was in place?
30:53
Paul Gareau: Yeah. The Quebec government passed legislation to call for the formation of
30:57
users committees among health and social service establishments,
31:01
as you say. And I think it was a it was an important initiative to give clients the
31:06
opportunity to be involved in the decision making at health and social service
31:10
establishments and, and really give them a seat at the table.
31:14
But for us at Mab, we already had something going along those lines long before the
31:20
government passed the legislation.
31:22
Mab, since its inception, Had bylaws which govern its its direction.
31:29
And the bylaws called for one quarter of the board of directors to either be blind or
31:33
visually impaired, blind and visually impaired persons,
31:36
or from families of blind and visually impaired persons.
31:39
So the Mab, from its outset, always had one quarter of its board of
31:45
directors for the 16 board clients or clients families.
31:49
So we were, I think, ahead of its time in that regard.
31:54
Nonetheless, I think the, the formation of the users committee
31:58
increased and enhanced the client participation in the running of the center.
32:03
And we were extremely fortunate at Mab to have Irene Lambert.
32:07
I don't know if you knew Irene.
32:09
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I do.
32:10
Paul Gareau: All right. So then, you know, she was a well known advocate for blind and
32:14
visually impaired community. For years and years and years,
32:17
she served as the president of our Users Committee,
32:20
a long time member of the Board of directors.
32:23
Irene was just so special and so connected and so forthright about about the needs
32:33
of the blind and visually impaired community.
32:35
She was just a tremendous leader.
32:37
She brought so much knowledge to the table.
32:39
And we were we were so fortunate to have her.
32:42
So you knew Irene?
32:43
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I do. And I, you know, I have a little story to tell in that when I
32:47
was president of the Alliance for Equality of Blind Canadians,
32:51
she brought me into a corner and she said, listen here,
32:55
you're not showing any strength.
32:57
I think it's about time you did something.
32:59
And I thought, oh, dear God, I don't want to get on this lady's wrong.
33:03
No, no.
33:03
Paul Gareau: If Irene asked you to do something, you better be doing it.
33:06
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes. Yes, yes, yes. Or else.
33:09
Yes. No. She was. She really helped me a lot.
33:13
She showed me the way.
33:15
She was a tower of strength, you know.
33:18
Paul Gareau: She was really something.
33:19
She. She founded the low vision self-help organization in the West Island of Montreal,
33:24
right? I remember going with Irene to when they were going to have right turn on red,
33:29
red lights.
33:31
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
33:31
Paul Gareau: And in Montreal, they were they were looking at having right turn on red lights for cars
33:36
in Montreal. Right. And it was something that we were really fearful of for our clientele.
33:45
And the clients were adamantly against it.
33:47
So I remember going to a hearing with Irene and you know,
33:54
I, she spoke first and I didn't have much to add after she,
33:58
she had given her speech because she, she knew her dossier backwards,
34:02
forwards and sideways.
34:03
Yeah. And you know, she was just so great at putting it forth in venues like that.
34:10
And a little addendum, we still do not have right turn on red in the
34:14
city of Montreal. So I think we have Irene to we have Irene to thank for some of that.
34:19
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Right, right.
34:20
Paul Gareau: Yeah. Special, special lady still going strong.
34:23
I see her irregularly, but she's still very active and blind or
34:29
visually impaired community. And yeah, just an amazing voice.
34:34
And leader and someone that, you know, I learned a lot from.
34:37
And I, I used to also say people would say, well,
34:40
how do you know what the, what might be the next thing you would want
34:43
to do for the MAB in terms of service enhancing services or delivering services in
34:49
a different way? And I used to say, I just have to listen to Irene tell me what
34:53
to do, and then I just go, what to do it.
34:55
So she was really special and influential on,
34:59
on the the, the, the, the, the enhancement of the client services
35:06
at the Mab.
35:08
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: How old is Irene now? I think she's in her 90s.
35:11
Paul Gareau: I, I know she's in her 90s.
35:13
She's definitely in her 90s and still still going strong,
35:17
really going strong and still very active.
35:19
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. Don't mess with her, though, a.
35:21
No no no.
35:22
Paul Gareau: No. But I mean, you know, you always know where you stand with Irene.
35:26
And you know, she's always right.
35:27
It's the other thing with Irene. So, you know,
35:31
you need to listen and take your advice very seriously.
35:34
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes.
35:35
Paul Gareau: And just somebody just on a personal note, she was just such a great person to work
35:39
with. I mean you know, you're sitting at boards of directors and
35:43
other places where, you know, it can be challenging at times if you're
35:47
dealing with government bodies or whatever. And she was just a,
35:51
for me was just a terrific support.
35:53
And I really appreciate everything she brought to our organization and to me
35:57
personally.
35:59
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: You know, this interview is really it's so nostalgic.
36:05
You know, there's so many memories of so many people.
36:10
It's it's unbelievable, you know?
36:12
Paul Gareau: Yeah. So many, so many good people.
36:14
And, and you're right. We get talking. It's like when I run into other either employees
36:18
or volunteers or clients from from our many years of having been at NAB.
36:23
And yeah, you just bring up the names of people who are so special and so important in
36:29
so many different ways.
36:30
So yeah, really, really a special place.
36:35
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So the clock is starting to wind down, but I have this question for you.
36:38
Surely one of the decisions you made as executive director was to open two satellite
36:48
satellite offices to decentralize services delivery.
36:56
Why was bringing service closer to the people who needed them so important to you,
37:04
and what did clients tell you about the difference that that change made in their
37:12
daily lives?
37:14
Paul Gareau: Yeah. The the decision to open satellite offices was important to me because it was
37:18
important to the clients that we serve.
37:21
The clients were really looking.
37:23
Much looking towards having services made available closer to their homes because.
37:29
Many lived far from the main offices and we were just talking about Irene.
37:35
Irene was a champion of this of this dossier.
37:39
She felt very strongly that we should be looking at bringing some of our services
37:45
closer to different locations to allow greater accessibility for,
37:51
for our clientele. And we were, we were able to do so.
37:55
And to be fair we did it in collaboration with other service centers.
38:02
And they were very welcoming to have us set up shop in their,
38:07
in their in their places of service delivery.
38:10
And that was we were well received, I think because we were well known in
38:15
Montreal. But it was really, it was a cooperation at a number of levels
38:21
that allowed us to proceed.
38:23
And the feedback from the clients was, was extremely favorable.
38:27
You know, accessing the services locally was I think it was especially appreciated by
38:33
people who had mobility problems or seniors who had difficulty traveling further to get
38:38
the services and programs.
38:40
So we couldn't do everything.
38:42
We couldn't offer all our services in the, in the satellite offices,
38:46
but we especially offered the low vision service and other services.
38:51
As you know, we used to do home visits when necessary.
38:55
So between the combination of the satellite offices and the home visits,
38:58
we really were able to reach clients who either couldn't come to the Mab or who,
39:03
for whatever reason, it was important to deliver services in the home,
39:07
sometimes for orientation and mobility, as you might remember,
39:10
or activities of daily living.
39:11
Any home adaptations, it really required a home visit.
39:15
So between, as I say, between the satellite offices and the home
39:18
visits, we felt pretty comfortable about being able to get the the services that our
39:22
clients required in the location that was, was,
39:25
was appropriate for them.
39:29
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Boy, the lab really played a large part in so many of our lives,
39:34
isn't it? Right.
39:36
Paul Gareau: It did. It did. I think it still does.
39:38
Has a has a special place in people's hearts.
39:40
Yeah. Who who were there?
39:42
Yeah. But Yes. Pretty special.
39:47
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: The mom also ran the Gilman residence for blind and vision impaired seniors and a
39:56
seniors day center, the Philip E Layton School on on site itinerant teaching for
40:06
integrated students and in employment integration program,
40:12
a Braille production unit and a talking book library.
40:19
What did it mean to you personally to lead an organization whose services touched a person
40:28
from earliest childhood, all the way through their senior years?
40:35
How did that feel to you?
40:37
Paul Gareau: Yeah, I was I was just honored to be part of the Mabee family and so proud of the vast
40:43
array of services that we had available at the Mab.
40:46
And in terms of leadership.
40:47
I mean, I think the leadership of the organization was shared among so many people.
40:53
Different doses, different people took the took the lead.
40:58
It was really a collaborative approach between as we were just talking about Irene
41:02
as head of the users committee, you know, our management,
41:05
our volunteers, our staff, our clients all had,
41:08
you know, input and took on responsibilities in getting things done and identifying areas
41:14
that we needed to develop. So it was really a it was really a place of collaboration.
41:20
I think too, in terms of the, you mentioned the breadth of the services,
41:24
you know, the client, as, you know, the, the client,
41:28
you know, the needs of the client as a student are very different than those of a
41:31
working adult or a senior.
41:33
Yeah. And the, the Mab had programs and services to,
41:36
to meet every need. I think the goal was, wasn't to create a client dependency,
41:43
but you could speak to that better than me, I think.
41:45
But to be there with what was required at each stage of life.
41:50
So from your point of view, you know.
41:55
I mean, I think some people look at the range of service saying, well, you're trying to
41:58
get, you know, you're looking at having people being reliant on the Mab.
42:01
And I never felt that way.
42:03
I felt we're there as a resource to be there.
42:06
If a client needs something and that those needs,
42:08
those needs might change, you know, over time.
42:11
Is that was that your experience or.
42:14
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yes.
42:14
Paul Gareau: How did you feel it? How did it feel to you?
42:16
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Well. The MLB to me was a resource.
42:20
The MLB was a support, a group of supportive staff members and
42:26
volunteers. I never thought of the MLB as taking my independence from me.
42:30
They showed me how to be independent, you know,
42:34
and even like as a student gosh, you know, all the services I took advantage
42:40
of and, you know, you had volunteers involved with,
42:44
you know, I want to read to you, I want to do this for you.
42:47
I want to do that for.
42:48
And I think, I can't believe this, you know,
42:52
I felt like a child in, in, in, in a candy shop.
42:57
You know what I mean? Paul like, right.
42:59
I never, I didn't have to ask very much.
43:04
People were offering and that that's the way it was.
43:08
I mean, I think even you read some stuff to me.
43:11
Come on now Everybody chipped in to read.
43:16
I mean, and you even had Bill Rudkin's father reading to me.
43:20
Right, right. And Linda Smoak's husband reading to me.
43:24
Susan Russell's husband.
43:26
Like, so it was volunteers and their spouses.
43:31
Paul Gareau: You're bringing up the names from the past that I remember so fondly,
43:35
you know?
43:35
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah.
43:35
Paul Gareau: I think I think you're right. I think more important than the range of the services that
43:39
were available. And they were there were a lot.
43:42
Never, never as much as we would want.
43:44
But, you know, they were pretty good with what we had.
43:47
And we certainly had a wide range.
43:48
But I think really the important part was the people,
43:52
the staff, the clients, the volunteers who made up the Mab.
43:55
Yeah. And who always, you know, wanted to be there for each other
43:58
when when they were needed.
44:00
So. Yeah. Just it's just fascinating to hear it from,
44:04
from, from your perspective.
44:06
And looking back it solidifies, you know, what my feeling is and what my,
44:12
my vision was of, of what was what it was like to be there.
44:17
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: I always remember Chris, my friend Chris.
44:20
Yeah. You know what? We will all go into Gilman and we'll all live there.
44:25
And I had she had this dream.
44:28
And now the dream is gone because Gilman is closed.
44:31
And I said, so Chris, what's the next.
44:33
Yeah.
44:33
Paul Gareau: What's what's the plan now?
44:35
Right.
44:35
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: What's the plan, Chris?
44:37
But she said, you know, she honestly thought that we would all be
44:42
living in Gilman. You know.
44:44
Paul Gareau: It's strangely it's a nice thought.
44:46
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Yeah. In some ways it is.
44:49
It is. Yeah.
44:51
Paul Gareau: Unfortunately, Gilman fell by the wayside.
44:53
And yeah.
44:56
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: So now that you're retired and this is my final question to you,
45:01
in addition to supporting the Habs as we both do.
45:04
Right. What, what's you know, what's your vision like?
45:08
What what are you thinking?
45:10
Where are you going? Well.
45:13
Paul Gareau: Since I retired and I, I found myself, I took a little time off just
45:18
to to have some downtime after a pretty hectic pretty hectic job.
45:24
And then I got to. I got a little itchy feet.
45:27
So I went into the resort and I became a consultant in strategic planning for health
45:33
and social service establishments in Montreal.
45:36
And that was really interesting.
45:38
And it was, it was a lot of fun.
45:41
It's always, it's always good when you can pick and choose your dossiers,
45:44
you know, if you like the dossier and you like the institution,
45:46
you know, you can take the job. If you don't, you don't have to. So that was interesting.
45:50
Right. And I realized that you know, doing just the strategic plan,
45:56
then you get asked to do a feasibility study around the strategic plan.
46:00
And then if the strategic plan is accepted by the board,
46:03
then sometimes you get asked to oversee the implementation of the plan.
46:07
So it became pretty busy fairly quickly.
46:11
And I realized I was back working five days a week.
46:14
So I came home one day to my wife and said, no,
46:16
no, I have to retire again.
46:18
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Which, which I did. Yes.
46:20
Paul Gareau: And then I thought I might have something to offer.
46:25
So I I became involved with a number of boards of directors of non-profit
46:31
establishments in Montreal and served in different functions.
46:38
And I found that fascinating.
46:40
I think, you know, all organizations share the same,
46:44
many of the same challenges as time goes on.
46:47
So it's been very interesting.
46:49
One of them was Pillars Trust, which is a Catholic charity which supports
46:55
English speaking Catholic parishes in Montreal.
46:57
So that was, that was very interesting.
46:59
One, we lived through Covid with them.
47:03
And you know, I think that we learned a lot.
47:08
Like, I think like most nonprofits and government organizations,
47:11
we have to make some decisions quickly.
47:13
You know, we the board had to go on Zoom and start embracing Microsoft Teams fairly
47:18
quickly. And interesting little side story is we,
47:24
we, we were getting calls from parishes saying that they,
47:28
they couldn't have people couldn't have masks,
47:30
people couldn't attend mass with Covid times.
47:33
Right. And so after mulling it over for a while,
47:37
we decided that we would provide funding for parishes to provide,
47:43
to get audio visual equipment.
47:44
They would need to stream masses to to the parishioners during the Covid crisis.
47:51
And we did that for a number of parishes.
47:53
And you know, it's, it's something that's stayed on that Covid finished,
47:58
but the streaming of the masses continues.
48:00
So some good comes out of it, right?
48:02
So I think, you know, a lesson we learned from that is one is as a
48:07
as an organization, keep your keep your eye on the ball,
48:09
you know, keep your your mission in mind.
48:12
What is your mission? And secondly, you really need to quickly adjust to changing
48:16
circumstances. And then thirdly, I think, which we always recognize in
48:20
retrospect is that every challenge presents an opportunity.
48:24
And so I think that's what, you know, whether it's pillars or any other
48:28
organization, I think that's what you have to look at many challenges out there,
48:31
but they also prevent opportunities.
48:33
And sometimes it can end up enhancing your services in what you do.
48:37
So interesting moving forward.
48:41
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: This has been one of the most enjoyable and nostalgic interviews for me,
48:46
and I am so happy that we've had this opportunity to,
48:49
you know, sit down and hear from you.
48:52
And I really appreciate it.
48:54
I really, really do.
48:56
Paul Gareau: Well, one last word with someone who is for someone who has been a member of the Mabee
49:00
family, I just want to and maybe folks are out there just thank them for everything that
49:06
they've done for so many years.
49:08
And yeah, you know, I think it's been noted by many people greater than myself that when
49:12
people come together to work for something bigger than themselves,
49:16
so much can be accomplished.
49:17
And I think the Mabee family has over the years proven that to be so.
49:22
And it's nice to be able to sit down and reminisce with a member of the family.
49:26
It's been a real joy, and I thank you for the opportunity for us to
49:30
touch base.
49:31
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Thank you so much, Paul.
49:32
And maybe one day I'll see you in Montreal.
49:35
I would look forward to it.
49:36
Paul Gareau: Maybe go to a Habs game.
49:37
Donna J. Jodhan, LLB, ACSP, MBA: Oh. Definitely. Thank you so much.
49:41
Thank you Paul. Take care now.
49:43
You as well. Okay. Bye bye.
49:45
Bye bye. Bye now.
49:49
Podcast Commentator: Donna wants to hear from you and invites you to write to her at donnajodhan@gmail.com.
49:55
Until next time.