Latest / Graeme Souness Tackles / Dean Saunders & Minto: Liverpool, Roy Keane & Transfer Deadline Day | Graeme Souness Tackles Ep 3

Transcript

Dean Saunders & Minto: Liverpool, Roy Keane & Transfer Deadline Day | Graeme Souness Tackles Ep 3 · Graeme Souness Tackles

0:05
Well, welcome to Graham Sness tackles.
0:07
I'm really looking forward to today because we've got a shy,
0:11
retiring Dean Saunders who's doesn't say very much.
0:15
Put your seat belt on by the way.
0:16
And of course Scott, who's the brains behind us.
0:20
If you're watching on YouTube then please hit like, comment
0:23
and subscribe. Enjoy the show.
0:25
There's three of them sat in the dugout with vests on and caps
0:31
with a with a cigarette. The game is filled now with
0:35
absolute bluffers. Headlines Backpage amateur.
0:41
I have never kissed as many moustachioed men in my life with
0:45
a lot of better moustache. Than me, you're going to have to
0:47
get it out of our heads that just because you've gone 400
0:49
million, you're a top player. Guns.
0:52
They carry guns. Welcome Dina.
0:59
I think I've only need to ask 2 questions and that's two hours
1:02
done. Well, we've been together a long
1:06
time and five different clubs and there's loads of stories
1:12
that we've got loads of secrets that we can't tell between us
1:18
and wait, we got we, we get in. If we go in a restaurant or pub
1:22
somewhere, we tell each other. Remember that one, remember that
1:25
one, But we can't say a mere today.
1:26
Well, we can tell a few. We could sit here today and talk
1:30
non-stop for 24 hours I reckon. I can't go into this, Scott
1:35
right, but just come in my head when we were signing Michael
1:40
Owen at Newcastle. It's one of the funniest
1:44
experiences I've ever had. We were sat in the boardroom at
1:47
Newcastle and Freddie Shepherd ordered a banquet Chinese while
1:52
we were waiting for Michael to give us an answer.
1:55
And they were all diving in in. Remember, everyone was diving in
2:00
and. Freddie, Freddie.
2:03
Russell Kennish Yeah, Freddie's not with us anymore, but Douglas
2:07
Hall was. He there as well.
2:08
So John Hall's son Douglas, who lives in Gibraltar, but he's
2:13
back in Newcastle and he's at the end of the table, big
2:17
boardroom table and we're going like, come on Michael, say yes
2:21
and sign for us. And Douglas keeps going.
2:24
You lot remember he kept going. He was he drunk or something?
2:31
What's wrong with him? Keeps going on this.
2:34
And I didn't was too fret, scared to say what are you doing
2:37
going like this all the time. And in the end, he went.
2:43
He went, I'm telling you, he's not going to sign for us.
2:45
We need to sign the bull. Torres Remember, that's what he
2:49
meant. It was Torres he wanted to sign.
2:51
Torres We wouldn't have done badly with him either, would we,
2:54
Torres But that was a funny, that was a funny situation.
2:58
He signed in the end. But you know, I just walked out.
3:01
I'm not waiting for him anymore. He went home.
3:03
He went home to bed 1:00 in the morning.
3:06
Kenneth Shepherd rings me. We lived opposite each other.
3:08
Ming Graham, he's agreed to sign.
3:11
I went. Oh, brilliant.
3:13
Brilliant. Michael Owen signed for us.
3:15
Magnificent. We can win anything.
3:18
So I better tell Graham. But he's not going to wake up as
3:21
he's in bed. So he's throwing pedals.
3:25
You know, like your girlfriend trying to wake your girlfriend.
3:28
I was and he opened the window. I went.
3:30
He's agreed to sign. Michael, he went.
3:32
Great. See you tomorrow.
3:33
Shut the curtains. Next day we went in.
3:37
Did you say babe, babe, babe or you didn't call him that?
3:40
Chucking Pablo's at his window. I mean, look, it's pretty
3:42
apartment with the, the transfer window.
3:44
We'll, we'll come on to that in just a second.
3:46
But we were team mates of course because I was with you at
3:50
Benfica when you bought the IT was only about 6-8 weeks we were
3:54
together at Benfica. You left, didn't he?
3:56
Yeah, I left. I went to West Ham in January.
3:58
No. He said I'm not.
4:00
Can't put it inside, can't hang around with it.
4:02
I can't. He kept fading it down the
4:04
channel. Overplay.
4:06
I said, Remember Me saying to you, you're going to have to get
4:08
rid of Scott, but he's making me locked back.
4:11
What it was it was a yard beside he went, no, I don't don't want
4:13
I want it to feat. I don't do that anymore in in in
4:16
the channel, but I can genuinely see within that six week period
4:21
just why you loved him so much, although of course you sold him
4:24
as well. We, we, we, we can come on to
4:27
that. Although we were together for a
4:29
very short time at Benfica, What what sort of thoughts and and
4:33
memories do you have of of your time there underground?
4:38
Well first of all I was like a magnificent football club and I
4:41
was like, I was at Sheffield United, I was 33 I think, and I
4:44
was so pleased Graham signed me. And then you get there and it's
4:48
a totally different climate. Couldn't train in the morning
4:50
because it was too hot, so we used to train at 4:00 and then
4:53
I'm playing with half the Portuguese team and I ended up
4:56
playing up front with was Brian Dean was there for for the first
5:00
bit and then it was Nuno Gomez and Joe Pinto and Joe class
5:07
players like Nuno was a goal scorer, Joe Pinto was the number
5:10
10, a bit like Ericsson Mod rich type, the superstars of Port
5:17
Portugal. And then behind them, we had
5:20
Hugo Leal, Colado, Bruno fall back.
5:24
Remember the team? Michelle Prudhomme.
5:26
Remember Taha? Taha.
5:28
Moroccan Harold Puborski used to hammer him, didn't he?
5:33
I said the story last week about Puborski, how Graham had him up
5:36
like that after ascending off. I was sent off in the same game.
5:39
I just said you've got to realise who you're talking to
5:41
here. Don't answer back.
5:43
Yeah, and he used to say to me he's, I mean, what is he doing?
5:48
He's like the dribbling fool. He started off the dribbling
5:50
fool, right? He ended up, he's a circus act
5:53
because he was Carol was like Dublin and Graham was like
5:56
Liverpool. Way pass, move on it, pass,
5:59
move, run into a space, run. If you don't know where to run,
6:02
run into some grass, somebody else will come into the space
6:04
you would. And that's the way we we try to
6:06
play. But we come back from the winter
6:10
break and we're on the pitch, stadium alight training there
6:13
and we're jogging around the pitch.
6:15
It's like 30° T-shirts on warm up.
6:20
Fitness coach Bowie is taking us round and we run into the
6:24
goalmouth around the six yard box and it's been re turfed and
6:29
it just the six yard box. So we're all going like God,
6:34
this is a bit loose. This they've not done this
6:36
properly. It's just all loose.
6:39
So Graham's at the back of the warm up and I look round and he
6:42
gets in the six yard box and you can see him going like this.
6:45
So he stops and I'm looking around while I'm doing the warm
6:49
up and he's like this and he starts looking for the
6:52
groundsman. Where's the groundsman?
6:54
Looking around the stadium. And there's three of them sat in
6:58
the dugout with vests on and caps with a cigarette and
7:04
braces, you know, like sat there, big fat bellies, braces.
7:07
And he's not. They're like that.
7:09
And as he jogs from the goal there over wake it round and as
7:14
you're running past, I was I was going to watch this.
7:16
They get they're going to get it, these three and all you can
7:19
hear is your amateurs, the three of you absolute.
7:23
I'll I'll lose my goal. I'll goalkeeper slips in the six
7:26
yard box, I lose my job. Do you care?
7:29
You 3 amateurs and then the equivalent.
7:33
As well. The equivalent of the sun or the
7:36
mirror next day headlines Backpage amateur as soon as
7:44
hammers the grounds. Mum wouldn't.
7:46
It desirably so. Look, we, we could talk for 24
7:48
hours just on Benfica, but but let's talk as we as we are right
7:52
now, the day after the transfer window slam shut.
7:55
That's what they say now, don't they?
7:57
First of all that the figure Graham £3.5 billion the Premier
8:03
League have spent in the summer transfer window.
8:06
I mean Steve Bruce has said he he can't believe how big a much
8:09
of a monster it's become. What do you say?
8:12
I haven't got the words to explain.
8:14
I don't think you know. No one saw this coming.
8:18
Two things, who's worth 100 million and who's worth 500
8:25
grand a week? No one playing sport.
8:29
It's a very, if you're a player in a modern game, it's a very,
8:32
you're a very lucky boy because forget any golden period that's
8:35
gone before. This is the golden period.
8:38
And I think it's still got some legs to go as well.
8:40
I think you can still grow even more So what a time to be a
8:45
football player. I'd have to say this as well.
8:47
I think the only any given time there's only 5 or 6 top men.
8:53
But, and I still think that's the case today.
8:56
If you look through the Premier League, you know, pick your five
8:58
top players that are quite different.
9:00
I make sure I'll take it to five in the current group.
9:03
There's another couple, 100 today who are on 200 grand a
9:06
week, 150 grand a week and they sworn around like the proper
9:10
players and act like the proper players and they're not.
9:13
I don't think it's a terribly attractive thing to see and
9:16
witness, which I have done recently.
9:19
So these boys, never really, very rarely, not never very
9:23
rarely do you see them really appreciating what they've got at
9:27
this particular time in football.
9:29
This is the golden period, but I still think it's got some legs
9:32
to grow as well. I tried to work it out the other
9:35
day. Curtis Jones went to Italy,
9:37
didn't he? 3030 million and I thought I
9:41
wonder what that was the equivalent to in 1990.
9:45
Two 30 million and I worked it out because Graham wasted 2.9
9:51
million on me. I mean, British record.
9:52
What's this not right for you? Come on.
9:54
You got me for free most of the time, but 2.9 million was a
9:58
British record that Graham played for me, so now it's 125
10:03
million. So you'd be worth. 25,000,000 So
10:05
Curtis Jones is 30 million I worked out in 1992 would have
10:10
been 650,000 transfer fee still a lot in them days.
10:15
Can I just 1984 we won the league, the European Cup in the
10:21
League Cup the year I left and Kenny and I would have been the
10:24
best paid players in the country because Liverpool are good
10:27
players and we got a bonus. And I have to say, the bonus for
10:30
winning the League Cup was 5 grand, the bonus for winning the
10:33
league was 5 grand, and the bonus for winning the European
10:36
Cup was 5 grand. So that year I got 125 grand,
10:42
which equated roughly to 12 times average man's wage.
10:47
The top men today, how many times average man's wage do they
10:51
get today? I think you're looking at 500
10:55
times average man's wage, but we were getting 12 times average
10:58
man's wage. We'd go, cool, how lucky are we?
11:01
So that's how it's just gone absolutely crazy with the money.
11:04
So so question. Then you can ask for or you can
11:07
answer for each other. What would he be worth?
11:10
Graham. Today Enzo Fernandez has gone
11:12
for £125 million joint British record.
11:15
And what would Dino be worth nowadays?
11:17
Well, number one, I think we're going to have to get it out of
11:19
our heads that just because you've gone for 100 million,
11:22
you're a top player, you're a good player, but you're not a
11:25
top player. What is he?
11:27
Enzo Fernandez. What is he?
11:28
Is he an attacking? You're a Chelsea man.
11:29
Is he an attacking midfield player?
11:31
Yeah, he's, well, he's meant to be seen as a bit of an all round
11:35
he can play. Scores a goal every six games I
11:38
think roughly. He Nicks a goal, puts his foot
11:42
in bit of spite in him which you need.
11:45
The Argentines are. Covers the ground, but I think
11:49
he's in. Is he?
11:50
A top mark. I think he's been in, no
11:52
disrespect to Chelsea, the the boat's been rocking for three or
11:56
four years and he's in, he's playing for that team if he was
11:58
playing for a set for Arsenal. Well, what?
12:01
We'll find out. What we'll find out.
12:04
He's going to be playing at Manchester City.
12:05
We'll find out. He is in one respect.
12:08
I'm expecting you to say he's not worth a, you know, half of
12:12
that. But another respect.
12:13
I think you'd respect him because of what Dino's just
12:16
said, because he he's not just set as either a holder or A10.
12:21
You know, your day was box to box.
12:22
It was everything. One goes, one stays.
12:25
He can score, he can tackle, he's a World Cup winner.
12:27
Yes, he made amazing. That's a good tackle in the
12:30
World Cup, I think. No, I think I see him
12:32
predominantly as some arriving in the box late, playing further
12:36
up the field. Occasionally we drop deep and be
12:38
starting things. But if you're an attacking
12:41
midfield player and a top team, you've got to get more than six
12:45
goals. Sorry, one goal every six games.
12:49
When you're talking about money being spent and I'm mad, it is
12:53
what you say. I 100% agree with you.
12:56
To an alley. Is he £100 million footballer?
13:00
It's not the boy's fault, but I think he's an ordinary joke.
13:04
I think he's very steady. He'll give you what he's got,
13:07
you know, in terms of effort, quite aggressive, good athlete,
13:13
not great on the ball, not great and seeing a cute and clever
13:17
pass. Again, I think I think he's 100
13:22
million, a £100 million footballer and I describe him as
13:25
a steady idea. I think what's happened when the
13:29
Premier League side, it was 8, was it 8 billion, The TV rights?
13:34
No, when it started, it was. It's 8 billion now.
13:36
It was. It was it was.
13:37
Well, how much was it start? 300 million.
13:39
Something like that, right? Cut that about 300,000,300
13:43
million, right, that. So say the cake on this table is
13:45
the cake the players got off of that cake.
13:49
So the players would get 150 million of the 300.
13:51
Now the cake is as big as London and they get off that cake.
13:56
So it's not their fault, it's just the TV rights.
13:59
All right, I'm your Tonali, I'm your agent.
14:03
So top them off for 100 million. So I'm sitting over the table
14:07
from their sporting director as his agent, right?
14:10
My, my first sentence is he wants X amount.
14:14
They go. That's too much.
14:15
My second sentence, you have just paid 100 million for my
14:19
man. Pay him £100 million wages.
14:22
So as well as a transfer fee being outrageously inflated,
14:28
then his salary and then, you know, dressing was work first
14:32
night out, a few beers, someone says what are you earning then?
14:35
And then like, that's when the problems start.
14:38
Is there anyone that's worth 100 million?
14:41
Well, the cakes, the cake, the size of the cake, the money in
14:44
football. And I think you get annoyed like
14:47
I do as well, and you probably do.
14:49
But you're a bit more modern than us, right?
14:53
You know when they're coming up with stats.
14:54
I mean, he's jumped more of the fence than we have.
14:56
To sell the product, I think they're coming up with different
15:02
angles like stats and XG and just to make it sound a bit more
15:07
and keeping it going forward and we get the hump then saying why,
15:12
well XG, what's that mean? The game is filled now with
15:16
absolute bluffers coming up, the new terminology, the new things
15:21
you alluded to very early on. Pressing used to be called
15:25
closing down. That's what we did better than
15:27
anyone else. Ronnie Moran would always say
15:29
that. Isn't it strange you'd shout it
15:30
across the dressing room to Joel Fagan when we're all listening?
15:34
Isn't it strange, Joe? What's that, Ronnie?
15:37
Well, the team that does the closing down the best seems to
15:41
always win the league. What does that mean?
15:43
The team that's closing down the best will win the league?
15:46
That means you're working the hardest when you don't have the
15:49
ball. It was all very simple, but they
15:51
would dress up where they could poke you.
15:53
They were the best at that. You, I remember him saying an
15:56
absolute classic and just rolled off his tongue.
15:58
He went, do you think this football's just been invented
16:03
this, he said. When I played for Liverpool,
16:08
Bruce Grobler was like an outfield player.
16:10
He was like Edison and Alison with his feet.
16:13
The two centre halves split. Alan Anson and Lawrenson were
16:18
like midfield players playing at the back who could Sprint the
16:21
two full backs, Phil Neal and Alan Kennedy.
16:23
He got ten goals a season and he scored World Cup winning goals
16:27
and European Cup winning goals. I went and got the ball off the
16:29
back 4. Terry McDermott was Lampard
16:32
getting in the box. Kenny Daglish was the number 10.
16:35
Ian Rush dropping Ian Rush was was the was the number 9.
16:38
Stretching on. And Alan Ken, Ray Kennedy and
16:41
Sammy Lee were coming into the pockets that they've just
16:44
invented. That's how we played.
16:46
Phil D went round the outside. That's how Liverpool played
16:49
years and years and years ago. You know, fullbacks joining in
16:53
all the modern way. I played in three European Cup
16:56
finals. The fullbacks to the fullbacks
16:58
scored an open play when I played a lot of the time, 50% of
17:03
the time they were further up the field than I was and people
17:06
would couldn't work out why we would dominate the ball.
17:09
Also an extra plus, we didn't give it away but also had extra
17:12
bodies in there. But it's all new.
17:15
It's all been invented with all the new terminology.
17:17
It's a load of nonsense. Yeah, football didn't go on
17:19
before 1992, did it? We've mentioned a few of the the
17:28
£100 million but we haven't mentioned Bradley Barcala.
17:31
What do you think of him as a signing and where do you feel
17:34
Liverpool are in terms of balance of the squad?
17:36
Well, I can't go first. Yeah, I think he's obviously an
17:41
extremely talented boy. On the face of it, looking at
17:44
him, if you're just looking at the qualities he brings, there's
17:49
nothing to dislike. But my question mark, if you're
17:54
PSG, why would you sell them? What are they seeing?
17:58
And him, sorry, I was saying they've got another white player
18:01
2. You've got 2 great white
18:02
players. Well, PSG don't need the money.
18:04
Arguably supported by, you know, I know it's Qatar, but they're
18:08
certainly one of the wealthiest, if not the wealthiest.
18:11
Club owners are committed wealthy owners in the world
18:14
football, they don't need to sell them.
18:16
I just just a thing in my head that says why would they sell
18:21
him given they're the dominant force in Europe right now.
18:24
Money is not a problem is he? Time will tell, but on the face
18:29
of it is a good signing. Well, there's one thing.
18:34
Why would he sell? Is he exactly what Liverpool
18:36
need? Again, I talk about I.
18:39
Mean I'll go back to last year. I don't know if you agree with
18:41
this, I'll go back to last year. I saw the Community Shield the
18:44
start of last year. Salad didn't take part.
18:46
I'm thinking to myself maybe he needs more games to get fit.
18:52
Didn't look interested and that's how his season was.
18:55
And when when when he was not scoring goals, not being
18:59
creative, Liverpool fell off a Cliff.
19:02
And you can be a good team and you've got an outstanding goal
19:05
scorer and you can win the league.
19:08
You can be a great team but don't have an outstanding
19:10
goalkeeper, a goal scorer and you won't win the league.
19:13
And I think Salah, to his credit for a number of years was the
19:16
Talisman in terms of being the creative one, in terms of
19:20
getting important goals. But last year he was so off that
19:24
and I could understand why the manager left them out and he
19:26
turned on the manager and got the manager's sack.
19:28
Ultimately I am. They need someone to replace his
19:32
goals in the creative angle as well.
19:35
I agree with that, but in his defence.
19:38
It was. MO Salas There are mitigating
19:41
circumstances why he was that bad last season.
19:45
So Trent was his normal supply of passes disguised diagonals
19:50
dinks. Trent would play infield and
19:54
Salah would be wide and he played with him.
19:56
Henderson used to make the magic triangle up and would fill in
20:00
when Salah lost the ball. Van Dyke stopped hitting
20:03
diagonal balls, so he got the ball early enough he lost the
20:06
two centre forwards. Have gone jotter tragically,
20:11
Nunez has gone Nunez. Whatever you say about him, he
20:13
used to work hard and you know he he covered the ground.
20:19
Diaz used to cross the ball from the left for Salah I think.
20:22
He missed him. So there's a few things they're
20:25
gone missing for Salah and the style of play.
20:29
I don't think he got the ball like they would just go from
20:31
back to front. Salah's running at him over the
20:33
top, but I understand what you said.
20:36
Sometimes he's got a lock in the mirror.
20:37
He had three goals. Again the manager's.
20:39
Back but but Salah's gone is Barkley you think would be on
20:43
the left hand side more so than the right and and what about we
20:47
talked last week about them being vulnerable in the counter
20:49
attack as well? Well, can we come to that?
20:51
Can I just finish on Salah? Sure, I have no reason to be
20:56
angry or frustrated by it, but I was, you know, when he, I think
21:01
they played Leeds United, the other star said.
21:02
He came out, he never takes any questions in the press area.
21:06
He stopped and said he feels he's been thrown under under the
21:09
bus. This is a bit that really
21:13
annoyed me. You know, everything I've done
21:16
for this football club, I don't have to turn up, not word for
21:20
word near enough. I don't have to turn up every
21:24
day in training and fight for my place.
21:26
Oh yes you do at big football clubs and that was always
21:29
Liverpool. It didn't matter who you were
21:31
every day, you had to be on it. And he that you said he had
21:33
three goals on trying to get the manager of the sack.
21:35
So he's saying that his legacy is tainted a little.
21:38
Bit without a shadow in my opinion, yes, without a shadow
21:40
with that. It was obvious that on the way
21:43
out the door he's gone right? I've had two goals of getting
21:46
slot the sack here. This should do it and he said we
21:50
need to start playing the way the previous manager used to
21:54
play. Who we fell out with, by the
21:56
way, at the end of the season for that, Well, club as well.
21:58
Well, I think the genius of you, Jurgen Klopp, was what you said.
22:04
He got the front three. Forget how talented you are, you
22:08
can't. You can't play out from the back
22:10
against us. 3 Mani Firmino Sala and then behind him.
22:14
And lastly, Diaz, Yeah, See, you asked a question.
22:18
You're 100% for me. You're right.
22:20
And I we talk about, you want to talk about Chelsea, you talk
22:25
about Liverpool. I think it's the problem.
22:31
The problem I have if you look at, if you look at midfield of
22:35
Chelsea, is that Hato. Hato, yeah.
22:39
And then they have Lavia and then Okasito comes in, I'm
22:42
playing against them, I'm licking my lips and I feel they
22:45
ain't going to do the hard yards that you have to do to be a top
22:50
team. The front 3 sensational Morgan
22:54
Rogers, Carl Cole Palmer and. Joe Pedro.
22:59
Who's looks like he's found another level.
23:02
They they are sensational but the guys behind them are too
23:06
easy to play against. They don't sense any danger,
23:08
they don't play with intensity to make life difficult for
23:11
opposition and I think Liverpool's midfield, I've got
23:14
that problem as well. Well, same.
23:17
Story for me. Turn the clock back to Catenia
23:21
was playing in Manny's position before Marne got in the team.
23:26
Brendan Rodgers was the manager and he's playing a bit like
23:28
Verts is now, coming in off the left, conceding two or three
23:33
every week, scoring loads of goals, conceding again, scoring
23:38
loads of goals because he's a little genius.
23:40
Once they got him to Barcelona and they put Marne there, he
23:44
then went behind them three for Henderson, Winalden, Milner.
23:51
You want to play against who were going right, Go on you make
23:56
them rush you 3 and we'll nick the ball back and then behind us
24:01
got a back for this right behind us.
24:03
See, we, we, we, we touched on it earlier.
24:06
Everyone plays up the pitch now hold a high line.
24:10
Is that the modern terminology? Highline.
24:13
Highline. So they got near the halfway
24:15
line and when the when like this, when the ball transitions,
24:21
when they lose the ball. He's so modern.
24:23
Where's High Press? When they lose the ball, right,
24:26
let's go. I'll go back to my language.
24:28
You're up to halfway line. The reason up to halfway line
24:30
when you have the ball is if it breaks down.
24:35
The three parts of the team in defence, midfield and strikers
24:37
are all in the same areas so it's hard for you to play
24:42
through where it breaks down and This is why Chelsea and
24:46
Liverpool in particular are having a problem.
24:50
You can only hold a high line when that ball.
24:52
This is what they would tell us when that ball is being put
24:56
under pressure by one of your players.
24:59
I you're keeping the guy who's in possession of the ball,
25:01
you're keeping his head there. You're not getting a chance to
25:03
do that. The minute someone can get their
25:05
head up, the back four have to think about going back.
25:07
And I think for Liverpool, and you look at you look at Chelsea
25:11
as well, they look so vulnerable when the ball changes hands.
25:16
And I think until they resolve that and I don't think the
25:21
players at Liverpool have got like slobs like like the
25:24
McAllister McAllister. I don't I I don't think they've
25:29
got that type of player to will to do that.
25:31
As you said, 100% correct. That's the Milner.
25:34
You know when all them. Jordan.
25:36
'S all less talented. Yeah, Bob, but are on you.
25:41
So let's talk about some of the moves that didn't happen.
25:43
Then Julian Alvarez to Arsenal. I'm not sure that was ever
25:47
really going to happen. What do you think of them?
25:49
I think he's really good. I think if asked, he's an
25:51
upgrade on the one they've got, the one they signed last year.
25:56
Yo, yeah, I think Alvarez is about not.
25:58
Sure. What he?
25:59
Is Golgrez looks at the end of the season, they look like he
26:02
was saying, when you get it, don't even look, put me in.
26:06
That's the service I want. He started being a bit more
26:08
effective, but at the start Jesus was better footballer than
26:12
him Money. He was playing with his back to
26:14
goal and linking up. He could link up, but he didn't
26:16
score enough goals is. He fit at this time because.
26:19
Yeah, go correct. Yeah, Haverts.
26:21
Haverts is starting, Yeah. Haverts.
26:23
He's not a what is he, haverts? I don't know what that's Is he
26:28
an attacker? He's like a.
26:29
He'd like to be a number 10. Yeah.
26:30
He'd like to be a number 10 to lead terminology, to be leading
26:35
the line or to be that main man up front, definitely.
26:39
So I don't he's, you know, when the he's not going to get his
26:43
face mask, do you? Know what I think should happen
26:45
now this is going to be, this is going to be difficult to
26:48
implement. But I thought about speaking to
26:51
the Welsh FA and saying to him, you know, football goes in
26:55
cycles, formations go in cycles. Eventually we will go back to
27:01
442 and you've got 2 strikers and there's no strikers in the
27:07
world left. They're like an endangered
27:09
species. Can we just, can we just go back
27:11
a little bit on Arsenal? You saw you watch Arsenal, Aston
27:15
Villa the other night. See, for me the lack of top
27:20
scorer Alvarez was I think would have fitted the bill is proper.
27:25
But when I look at Arsenal, they must be so difficult to play
27:29
against because I've got that in midfield.
27:33
They that old chestnut comes out, they Sprint back as quickly
27:38
as animals Sprint forward to get back into their shape.
27:41
You know, you're talking about 440.
27:43
You're only a what is when you're going forward and you're
27:48
on a really good team, You've you've got half a dozen mischief
27:51
makers go and do it. Go and cause problems for
27:54
opposition. But those mischief makers and
27:58
the top top teams have to be prepared to do the hard yards as
28:02
well, which is Sprint back and get in a position.
28:03
So they're difficult to play against.
28:05
That's that's how I see Arsenal right now.
28:07
Yeah. I think they need a goal scorer
28:09
but Arsenal showed the other night which makes you a
28:11
dangerous team. Without being at your best, you
28:13
can win. So we've touched on Chelsea,
28:15
we've touched on Arsenal. Arsenal Chelsea is at the
28:18
weekend. Is it it?
28:20
It's a. Both the 100% record like.
28:23
The embrace Well, and there's something else I want to
28:26
mention. Watching Chelsea at the weekend,
28:28
How good Chelsea have won. Chelsea have won two games and
28:32
I've had on average rough roughly 30% possession in both
28:36
games against Fulham and against Brighton.
28:38
How good were Brighton, you know, in terms of knocking
28:41
around and keeping possession into areas?
28:44
I like Brian and I think we have three or four of the top men not
28:47
starting that game. Arsenal at home to Chelsea.
28:52
I can only see one winner. I.
28:54
Haven't asked you this. You know, in the European Cup
28:56
final, the Champions League final, I would have done what
29:00
Arteta done tactically. I don't mind saying that
29:04
everybody hammered. Trying to nick it.
29:06
Yeah, because I just. Can't take them on.
29:09
You know, it's like fighting Mike Tyson and thinking you can
29:12
knock him out as soon as you leave your chin hanging out.
29:14
They've got bigger punches than you.
29:17
So I think he tried to play him in the last 10 minutes.
29:19
Nick, a goal not not let the back four get exposed.
29:24
But if it don't work, yeah, you get hammered for.
29:26
No, Arsenal and I think people are making the football
29:30
decisions there, know what they're doing or Teta knows what
29:33
he's doing and you play in the European Cup final.
29:37
I agree. I'm agreeing with you.
29:39
You know, the other team are so much better than you.
29:41
I, I never, we never experienced that at Liverpool because we
29:44
always felt we were a football team.
29:47
And I played in three European Cup finals and three of them
29:49
weren't good games because opposition didn't want to take
29:51
us on. That included Rome and Rome.
29:55
So Arsenal for me are still work in progress in that respect.
29:59
Arteta, he was an elegant footballer himself, wants to be
30:03
PSG, he wants to be in the front foot, dominating the ball,
30:06
dominating the chances. But he was cute enough and
30:09
clever enough and smart enough to understand that we can't go
30:12
and have a gunfight with these guys.
30:14
We're going to try and nick the game.
30:16
So I agree with you on that. But I would expect the Arsenal
30:18
to evolve, you know, if we get luck in the transfer market and
30:23
everyone, you know, the football decision makers stay in situ.
30:27
So just just a couple more questions on the on the transfer
30:29
market, because obviously it was it was so big, not just
30:31
financially, but the stories as well.
30:33
And one of the the big stories we talked about Chelsea losing
30:36
midfielders. They wanted Malik camera from
30:39
Monaco. It looked like it was going to
30:40
happen. It didn't in the last minute,
30:42
but also Everton as well with fullering Balagan and it looked
30:46
like he maybe failed the medical and then there was a rewording
30:50
of it. And then perhaps Everton were
30:52
were going for Xerxy and in the end, apparently, as we're
30:56
sitting here, Balagan said no, I'm not going to Everton.
30:58
Now the Everton fans are going absolutely mad at the hierarchy
31:03
for saying that they've lost out and now they've only got Tiana
31:07
Barry is the the one recognised striker that could cost them.
31:11
I failed the medical ones at Bradford coming back from
31:15
Benfica so they give me an X-ray on my knee bending in mind it's
31:19
a free transfer but my wages. Were.
31:21
Normal compared to what they were used to.
31:24
It was on the 500 grand a week back.
31:26
Then so I had an X-ray on my knee and they said there's only
31:29
1/3 of you Patel a tendon left, it could snap at any time.
31:34
So I went. So I said we can't.
31:37
I said I'll just give. Me 99 grand a week no.
31:39
Do you know what I've done? I said right I'll insure my
31:42
wages at 25 grand it cost. So I paid 25 grand on my wages
31:49
to cover my wages if my niece snapped.
31:52
So I'm sure they could have come to some agreement.
31:54
I was thinking about that this morning.
31:55
How was he failed a medical? It's not you move into a new a
32:00
new stadium. We, you know, we know how
32:02
passionate a city Liverpool is. Evertonians thought they'd turn
32:08
a big corner, but owners have not made noises in this window
32:12
that would suggest they can have a right go.
32:14
They saw the guy to City as well, didn't they?
32:16
Yeah, and. He was, he looks to be, he looks
32:21
to be a City player, he looks to be one of those.
32:23
You put him in a really good team, he goes to another level,
32:26
but he was a really good player. I just, I just don't like the
32:30
signals Everton, our owners are making.
32:32
That's a biggest story than that, Scott is Aston Miller.
32:36
What's happening there? I know I played for him, but I
32:39
take an interest in it. They've lost nearly half the
32:42
team. The best half of the team, yeah.
32:45
And like, people don't realise you've got five players who are
32:49
really, really good and the other five are average, but they
32:53
look all right while they're playing.
32:56
You take the best five out and add another five average
32:59
players. You saw that the other night,
33:01
They played two games of football.
33:02
Do you know how many shots got on target?
33:04
None. None.
33:06
That's that's not that's not a recipe for success.
33:14
Who would you say has done really well then final one on
33:17
the the the transfer window and who do you really worry about?
33:22
Man City look good, don't they? I mean Arsenal of Arsenal have
33:25
got to the point where they've as cross I've gone yeah, not
33:29
sure I'm out in Ellie yeah, they've started off loading the
33:33
people now. Who's got bottom left?
33:36
Upgrade the bottom left on the. Training as well, Yeah.
33:40
And this evolution, that's that it should be.
33:43
If you show any sign of why am I not playing again, I'm going to
33:47
walk around gone. He's done it.
33:50
He got rid of them only but. That is art of management isn't
33:52
it? You've got 2025 players, you've
33:54
got 5 inured all the time, so they're not for picking on on a
33:58
Saturday or Sunday. That's why you never left me
34:01
out. And then you've got you.
34:02
Knew what was coming. You got four or five that got
34:04
four or five players that you have to keep happy.
34:07
You got the five, injury got five.
34:09
You have to keep happy because they're not involved.
34:11
I was number subbed, you know, I can't remember being I came off.
34:14
I thought I was subbed twice. I remember once against moves at
34:16
home. I'm not sure how I would have
34:18
dealt with my if I saw my car going up, I'll just say that.
34:25
Put the wrong shirt on. You brought me off once.
34:29
Only once. Only once.
34:30
As I walked past him, I went. Are you trying to get the sack?
34:34
What are you doing? Final one, you've got a Brian
34:38
Clough story, Haven't. You no better than that
34:40
Galatasaray right. We mentioned Galatasaray OK, so
34:44
I hadn't seen Graham coaching players really he he was the
34:49
manager and he'd step in Ronnie Moran and Roy Evans would take
34:52
training and Graham would step in and say and it was minimal
34:56
information. It was like let them play, let
34:59
them make their own minds up. But I remember you saying to Yan
35:03
Mulby, once Yan stop running around from throwing, you're
35:07
receiving a throwing stand still, push off your man.
35:10
First time in back to the thrower and you showed him on
35:13
the training pitch. But when we went to Turkey, he
35:16
had to coach players. They were good lads, so weren't.
35:18
They yeah, we had, we had a good team.
35:20
Brad Friedlingo, Bulent, Farty Arkan.
35:24
Who's now the manager right back who's now won the league?
35:27
32 guys swat in midfield. Kachuk, Akan Unsal.
35:31
Mukakan with you. Safa Akan, Tsuka Arif and Kublai
35:38
Turkomas, the Swiss left winger. We had a property they went on
35:43
when we left to to do really well.
35:46
Dominic. And and.
35:47
When the European competition only took his team to do that.
35:50
And he's got an interpreter, Graham Ahmed, who'd been in the
35:54
army for 20 years, nicest man in the world, very disciplined,
35:59
serious, like when the training was finished, collect the balls,
36:04
collect the balls, stop kicking the balls around.
36:07
Anyway, it was a bit like that. So Graham used to say to him,
36:10
tell him big game today, big game today, this one.
36:13
So I'm here to go mana management.
36:15
My name is Do Whatever and he's and he's and he's.
36:22
Fluent. He's listening to him going like
36:23
this, waiting to get his next bet out.
36:25
Right. But Ahmed was going would go on
36:28
for ages and he'd be going. Graham be going.
36:30
Yeah, yeah. And and he kept going, right.
36:33
So we used to sit there. Brad used to say this is going
36:37
to be funny. Anyway, we're playing an old one
36:40
game and he's his favourite show onto the pitch, as you know.
36:44
Pass, pass. It was how quick he can move the
36:48
ball from one side of the pitch to the other and one of them
36:51
won't go into position. That's football pass.
36:54
And bullent used to have a bit of a pose up and he dragged back
37:00
and then he'd instead of just snapping it drop off and he drop
37:03
off right. So he goes bullet on pitch.
37:06
One day, bullet pass the ball quicker and bullet went like
37:11
this to him. I went, I went, Oh no.
37:16
Oh please tell me he's not just done that to Graham soon.
37:20
So Graham's turned round to Phil Bozeman gone.
37:23
Has he just gone like that to me?
37:25
Has he just done that? And Bowie went.
37:28
So we go in at half time. Honestly, it was so funny.
37:32
He goes, you're raging. He goes.
37:35
Ahmed, tell him. Bulent, who went on to manage.
37:40
He was captain of Turkey and he managed the club.
37:42
He's a good player. He went.
37:44
Tell him if he ever does that to me again in front to 40,000
37:48
people, I've had little boys like him for breakfast.
37:53
Ahmed went oh, no, Graham, come on.
37:56
I can't say this. I can't say this.
37:58
Graham, He went. No.
38:00
Tell him it's your job. Tell him what I've just said.
38:04
He went oh, come on, Graham. No, no, come on, no, no.
38:07
He went tell him and Ahmed went brulent a single bar and Graham
38:15
went. Have you told him?
38:18
And he went, yes, I told him. He said you haven't.
38:22
You went to Cindy bar. He said something and he's
38:28
going. Have you done?
38:29
He was like a comedy sketch. He was going.
38:31
You haven't told him because you never spoke long enough to tell
38:34
him that he went. Yes, Graham, I tell him and
38:37
Bulan went. I understand English.
38:40
Perfect. Sorry.
38:42
No problem. He was listening to all of it.
38:46
Did he do it again? I bet he didn't.
38:48
No, no, no. Yeah.
38:49
But that was that was funny. Oh, you've got to tell the
38:52
story. I'll tell my story first, so I
38:56
am. I used to live in the centre of
38:58
Istanbul and the training ground used to be out in Florida, which
39:01
was near the airport, an hour's drive through the traffic.
39:05
So we'd play on a Sunday and there was there was
39:08
accommodation at the training ground.
39:11
So I would Saturday morning, get them in at lunchtime, 11:00
39:17
train lunch. They'd go to the bed in the
39:19
afternoon, wake up, have dinner in the evening, out of dinner.
39:26
Then when they went back to their beds, I'd go and stay with
39:30
my wife, daughter in the centre of Istanbul, then come back on
39:34
the Sunday in preparation for the game that afternoon.
39:38
I came back this Sunday. I met stand at the at the gates
39:42
waiting for me, shaking his head.
39:44
I've gone, this ain't good, said Ahmed.
39:49
What problem? Big problem, big problem.
39:53
Parked the car going office. What's the problem?
39:55
All last night, last night the players, the players.
39:59
What was the problem? Well, we had a games room that
40:02
must have been. Was it 30 yards long at pulling
40:07
near table tennis? They said last night, the boys,
40:10
they get all the cushions, they put them at one end of the games
40:13
room and they get the guns out. What do you mean to get the
40:18
guns? Out.
40:18
Not, not, not the arms. No.
40:21
What do you mean guns? Guns.
40:25
They carry guns. Yeah, they carry guns.
40:28
So they set a target up at the end of this games room and real
40:32
live rounds firing us and I've been and I've been getting into
40:37
them being really aggressive towards them and they've all got
40:40
guns in their back. And then you witnessed it when
40:43
we were coming back. We're beating Bishek Tash,
40:45
second last game of the season coming along the side of the
40:47
boss for us. All the all of the Fenerbach
40:50
supporters are out celebrating because they won the league that
40:52
day and they stopped a bust and it was Arif.
40:55
I didn't. Arif, yes, all the Pederbach,
40:57
you've stopped the bus moving. The roads were just packed blue
41:00
and yellow, and we're sitting there going nice and they're all
41:03
going nice. Yeah, yeah.
41:04
We won the league, we won the league banging.
41:07
On the windows and all of a sudden I was sat down the front.
41:10
They all they all run all the friends started dispersing and
41:16
what's happened? Then I got up and I reef had
41:18
gone like that. He's banging.
41:21
He's gone. No, I've seen it all but the
41:28
one, the one in the final, because I got to tell it,
41:31
because he's here and he's swimming the channel every year,
41:36
so I don't know how long he's going to be here.
41:37
He could drown that any minute, so I better tell it.
41:40
The shoulders holding out anyway at the.
41:41
Moment we beat. We beat him one nil.
41:43
I scored a penalty. Keeper dived over it to his left
41:47
and it's squirmed under his arms.
41:48
One nil, we beat him. So we got Fenobachi.
41:50
They beat us one nil. Extra time, 118th minute ball
41:56
across the face. I lashed it in the roof of the
41:58
net. We've won, more or less, so we
42:01
run, celebrate. Minutes.
42:03
Minutes left, Graham runs on the pitch and some fans got the
42:07
biggest flag. You know, it can't get a bigger
42:08
flag if you try a Galatasaray flag threw over the fence and
42:13
he's run into the centre circle and he's going to he's going to
42:20
stick it in. And you know that when you were
42:22
at school and used to have the the white chalk lines that were
42:25
rock hard and the ball used to run over, remember it was like.
42:29
The. Line he couldn't he couldn't get
42:31
it in right. He was like this and he's
42:33
eventually he got it in and he rubbed past me on the way off.
42:37
I went all the best and he run down the tunnel and I'm watching
42:42
him run down the tunnel. All the fans are going berserk.
42:44
60 odd thousand there soon as I go and berserk and this bloke
42:48
tried to get over Graham, he's gone.
42:53
He's hit me. No, no.
42:55
But I think he come off worse, didn't he?
42:58
He broke his. Hand he brought his hand, he
43:00
brought his hand on his jaw. But the police, the riot police
43:04
were all Galatasaray fans luckily.
43:06
So they were booting him. This fella on the floor going,
43:09
how dare you break soon as his wrist with your jaw.
43:14
And we went in the dress room and there was champagne and Paul
43:19
that you wouldn't think of this when you're childish as a
43:21
player. He used to have this Hugo Boss
43:25
cream mohair over his shoulders, right?
43:29
Must have been about 5 grand. Then this Jack is coat and all
43:33
the players were spraying champagne over his coat and he
43:36
was celebrating spraying the champagne.
43:38
And Graham's got his hand an ice bucket.
43:41
No, the champagne bucket broke his hand by the way, we could we
43:45
had now it. They still have a silhouette
43:50
that they pull across the back of the goal before a game of
43:53
Graham red and yellow with a silhouette the.
43:55
Flag was the size of that, yeah, who's?
44:00
And if you go to the stadium now, the new stadium as you go
44:03
out, the tunnel was a painting of me doing that on a wall
44:09
again, twice the size of that. I think it's iconic in England,
44:14
let alone what it's like in Turkey.
44:16
And who handed it to you? How did it develop?
44:18
And you told me the story well, what the president said
44:21
afterwards. The players had taken, first of
44:25
all, go back nine months. When I went there, that was my
44:28
first job in two years. I'd left Liverpool, you know,
44:31
I'd had open heart surgery. So when I went there, one of the
44:35
vice presidents that said what friend of Bachi's vice
44:39
presidents had said, what Galitas are they doing signing a
44:41
cripple? Oh, that's not unfair, not
44:44
unkind. So nine months later, we win the
44:46
cup in their stadium. I've got this flag and I look
44:51
into the emptying stands to the director's box.
44:53
I can see this guy's face. And it was just a new moment.
44:58
And I'll show you I'm not a cripple.
45:01
And I can remember being sitting with this in heist bucket.
45:06
I'm thinking, well, when our president comes down, you'll
45:09
already have the airline ticket for me.
45:13
I'll be sacked on the spot. I'll be going home tomorrow.
45:15
But it was worth it. I'm still like this and about.
45:19
He came in with about 10 vice presidents.
45:22
I have never kissed as many moustachioed men in my life with
45:26
a lot of better moustache than me and just hug him.
45:29
He wouldn't put me down. It's the greatest thing that's
45:31
ever happened to the football club.
45:32
Forget winning the cup. It was just, it was like, you
45:35
know, a real moment of that and I had to have some security
45:41
after that for the my remainder of my time in Istanbul do.
45:44
You know what though, Scott? People don't realise and he
45:46
won't say it himself, but I think I might be wrong.
45:50
I think you've won about 28 trophies as a manager.
45:54
If you, if you, if you I'm not won 11 trophies in three
45:59
different countries and I won something if you include the
46:02
which the modern coaches do the the Community Shield, I'm up
46:08
Yeah, 27, 262720. I stopped counting after 10.
46:14
Once you. I think you should be still
46:18
managing like simple. Football is not rocket science
46:22
and what's happened in industry outside of football people has
46:25
been created by these anoraks. You know, it's only my opinion
46:31
that people who don't really understand football, I first
46:35
experienced it when I went, I coached Torino for six games.
46:38
I'd turn up on the first day, you know, two guys that were
46:43
from General where I used to play at Santoria.
46:45
Would you? I left Southampton, resigned,
46:50
couldn't work with Rupert Law, no budget to work with.
46:54
So I met these guys at a restaurant in Mayfair, said
46:57
yeah. And then we spoke over the
46:59
phone. I'd go out for my first day of
47:01
work and. And you were in meet me at the
47:04
airport and I said you'd be very happy with us.
47:08
Well, we'll sign new players. How many?
47:12
DI Chotto 8 No 18. The.
47:17
You've seen 18 new players. Yeah.
47:22
Who told you to sign them then? Well, we have like, we thought
47:25
they were ahead of the game. We have friends who are agents
47:28
and friends who are journalists. So this is anyway.
47:32
And. You've got to win the league, by
47:33
the way. Yeah, so I lasted six games, 1/2
47:38
Drew 2, lost two. But the point I wanted to make
47:41
training had the perfect story. And that was my first, first
47:45
time I witnessed how football was going to change.
47:48
I had nothing to do. I was expected to stand in front
47:51
of a a board and just point out and get the message across like
47:55
that. He can he did everything in
47:56
training and he had a he had a clipboard, a stopwatch.
48:01
And so for the fitness, they would do 10, 50 yarders, they
48:08
would do 775 yards and then five, 100 yards.
48:14
And he timed them all so he knew they were better than they were
48:17
yesterday or worse, and he could actually nail them because of
48:19
that. And that's how our games evolved
48:22
with all these sports scientists where they're going to get to
48:24
the 65th minute and he's getting into the red zone.
48:27
It's such absolute nonsense because we're all different.
48:30
We're all people can push through barriers.
48:32
We could all do the same training and I'd say after an
48:34
hour I've got enough. You say I'm just warmed up and
48:36
you say, have we started yet? So we're all different.
48:39
So I, I just think it's a whole industry being created by these
48:43
buffers that that influence players.
48:47
How many times you, your players saying today I feel tired?
48:52
I bet you never felt tired, you. Ever felt tired?
48:56
And if I did, I wouldn't say it. Did you ever feel tired?
48:58
You'd feel you'd never say it. I never felt tired, sad
49:02
mentally. If you'd lost a couple of games,
49:03
you'd feel sorry for yourself. But that's briefly.
49:06
I never physically felt tired. Where they're planting seeds now
49:10
and players said, well that you know, your stats are telling me
49:12
that when you get to 67th minute, you're going into that
49:15
danger zone. Really just they have such an
49:19
influence on the game and it's see going back to the guy that I
49:23
worked with in Italy, he couldn't stand and watch Anita
49:25
side and go. He should be.
49:28
He's not putting any effort and he could do more.
49:30
He's really gone for it. We all could.
49:32
You could look at a gamer, Football said.
49:34
Well, he's putting hard yards in, but they can't see that, so
49:37
it has to be a black and white thing.
49:38
So start beast. I know why you're not managing
49:42
anymore. I think I know because I know
49:44
you're well enough. And part of it is the aggro that
49:47
comes with it, but the other half of it is you.
49:51
You can't not be yourself. You've tried, basically.
49:55
He can't be fake. Thanks to our whiskey partner
50:06
Saint Andrew's Three Fingers Whiskey, the legendary measure.
50:10
He brought you to more than one club but one.
50:14
Kept reciting just to get away from him.
50:17
And yet it kept popping up like a bad smell.
50:19
But. But first time round, let's talk
50:21
about Liverpool. Because you brought him to
50:23
Liverpool and then you sold him. Yeah.
50:24
I made a mistake. Big one.
50:27
No, no it wasn't. Big no no how?
50:29
Many goals did you score? Not first year. 23.
50:34
I'll say I was influenced by someone, a player saying to me
50:39
that I've got to be careful what I say here.
50:43
Yeah, I was influenced. No, I won't be careful.
50:45
I was. I was influenced by Russia,
50:47
saying I find it difficult to play with you.
50:49
Yeah, and I played with him for Wales.
50:51
Yeah, he. Didn't mean it.
50:54
And anyway, I, I then Rome was badgering me because he had a
50:59
lifelong admiration for you and I, I shouldn't have sold you.
51:03
I shouldn't have sold you. You know, goal scorers are the
51:05
hardest thing to find. And again, he's a he's the type
51:08
of player that makes other people run around like Kevin
51:12
Keegan was, you know, you know, just non-stop perpetual motion.
51:19
And even if he's having a bad day, you'll still make the runs.
51:22
You'll still want the ball and still be prepared to miss it.
51:25
So I mean, if I, if I hadn't fancy them, how many times, five
51:29
times we worked together and I'll see this as well.
51:32
I, I am, I'm managed for 818. That started young and my fire
51:38
went out at Newcastle. So I certainly got the right
51:44
thing getting out. But I was amazed that you didn't
51:47
crack it at management And I, you know, your first job was.
51:50
Wrexham. Two wolves.
51:53
Doncaster. Doncaster 2 wolves.
51:54
Am I right there to wolves 3 1/2 months?
51:57
Yeah, and you, you worked out that dodgy chief exec?
52:00
Do you know what though? I never spent 1 pence.
52:01
Who's a chief exec? I'm happy to name, obviously.
52:04
That's Chez moxie. Come across some first.
52:06
I never spent 1 pence as a manager, but six teams.
52:10
So yeah, he's got, you know, his dad played.
52:12
He's he's grew up in a football household. 12 years at
52:15
Liverpool, your dad. Yeah, he's grew up as a in a
52:18
football house. He's he loves football and he's
52:22
got great enthusiasm for it and I can remember you phoned me up,
52:26
said we're not dacking them and Redbridge, where did you go?
52:29
Dag dag. We were playing Dagenham.
52:31
And no, what was your last job? Chesterfield.
52:35
What other was that? Crawley Crawley I was interim
52:38
manager because John Gregory had a heart operation and I took
52:42
over. And I think I'm amazed that he's
52:44
not cracked at management and been super successful because
52:48
he's got, you can see his personality.
52:51
He's got the knowledge without a doubt.
52:53
You know, he's got that natural enthusiasm, that love for the
52:56
game. And maybe he's, he's a wee bit
53:00
like me where I, I think you have to be sort of to be a
53:04
manager of today. It's never been harder to manage
53:07
today. And it's sort of never been
53:09
harder to manage than this today.
53:10
Yeah, he likes the dog today. Yeah.
53:13
Players control the job. Why do you think you weren't
53:15
given the opportunity to at least spend money in the given a
53:18
chance and did you actually enjoy management?
53:22
Yeah, but I enjoyed the bit where Graham or I, I used to
53:27
learn most of it from Graham. Like get the play, single
53:30
players, secret football, single players, get them to work hard.
53:35
That's it. Simple as.
53:37
Give them a plan with the ball. Sometimes if they're not
53:41
brilliant, he wouldn't give us a plan.
53:43
You just say come play because you know we're all good players
53:46
at Liverpool. You've got the best players.
53:48
Let them make their own decisions.
53:49
Don't say you stay there, you stay there.
53:54
The lower down you go, you have to give them a bit more of a
53:56
plan with the ball and a plan without the ball.
53:58
And I went down that road and actually John William, we signed
54:03
Andy Cole at Blackburn. So quickly go through the team.
54:06
Brad Friedel, Henenberg, Craig Short, Lucas Neil, Stigby,
54:11
Onaby, 2 guy, Gary Flickroff, David Dunn, Keith Gillespie,
54:15
Damian Duff, Andy Cole, Dwight your John Stead, Matt Jansen.
54:20
We won the cup in Cardiff, beat League Cup, we beat Spurs and
54:23
finished 6th and then we finished 10th and then we went
54:26
to Newcastle. So John Williams come down.
54:30
We signed Andy Cole 6,000,000. Give him he won't mind me saying
54:34
this. And he was on 60 grand a week
54:36
more than everybody else playing obviously a big star.
54:40
And John sat down the chairman and he went, yeah, that's us
54:44
9th, we'll finish this year. Now we've got the ninth highest
54:46
budget in the league. And he called, stuck us from
54:49
10th to 9th. And I went, John, it don't work
54:53
like that. He goes, it does, he goes, you
54:56
might get one overachieving like Wigan and you might want get one
55:01
getting relegated with a big budget like Leeds.
55:04
But normally you finish where your budget, your wage bill is.
55:10
And I and it's, it's true. I've watched it, you know the
55:13
top 6. By and large, it's not.
55:16
It's not. It's not exact, yeah, because,
55:18
but the top six, if I said you name the top six in 2035, you'd
55:24
go Man United, Man City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Chelsea,
55:28
wouldn't you? I am told you the manager is is
55:33
they've got the best players. One thing I I do want to ask
55:36
you, you played on the Graham, you played on the Brian Clough,
55:40
you played under Ron Atkinson, John Tashiak, you, you worked
55:43
alongside as well. It's an incredible list of, of,
55:46
of superstars. Just how much did you learn from
55:49
them? But Tasha was you got, you got.
55:51
Different education, didn't you, Brian Clough?
55:54
Yeah, or Arthur Cox. Yeah.
55:57
Arthur Cox won me for me one day when I was manager.
55:59
Wrexham. How was it going?
56:01
He was like Secret Service. Arthur, how was it going?
56:04
I went all right, yeah. Sign players you've done well
56:08
for someone else, son. Don't sign players you haven't
56:10
done well for someone else and think you can change them.
56:13
You can't change them. You might make them run a
56:16
different way, but the characters are the characters.
56:19
They're already formed, you know, football.
56:21
So if you if they've done well for someone else, they'll do
56:24
well for you. Don't sign players you haven't
56:26
done well. Unfortunately, I did.
56:31
Great advice, you can take it. But there's no science in
56:35
football. But you see on this about good
56:38
senior pros and you think Man United for our mistake.
56:41
The, the, the brought Paul Scholes back.
56:43
Didn't they kept Gary Neville on a bit longer than you should
56:46
have. They kept writing gigs on a bit
56:47
longer than just a simple thing. Time keeping every single day
56:51
and training is really important to us.
56:52
Just to have that for the next group.
56:55
I was at Liverpool a couple of months ago and I did for
56:59
Liverpool TV the three captains, Steven Gerrard, me and Virgil.
57:08
So I said to Virgil, I said, see, in the modern game, do you
57:14
follow each other on the pitch? Well, you don't.
57:21
So. And they said your team.
57:23
I said, yeah, every day in training and every game we were
57:26
a team of mourners, that at least being the biggest mourner,
57:30
and I was a close second. Oh, nearly.
57:33
Oh, it's strange. All the guys who really wanted
57:35
to win, we're just mourners. We were a team of mourners but
57:38
that kept the staff, didn't need to do anything.
57:42
I'll give you an example. Heninburg 100 caps for Norway
57:47
right? Really experienced player
57:49
playing centre after Man United against Bradford City in the
57:52
Premier League at Bradford. I'm playing for Bradford.
57:56
I'm 36 and Bradford, the town is buzzing.
58:01
Man United to come in with all these stars, right?
58:04
So we kick off from the kick off, the fans are bouncing the
58:08
the the stadiums like can't believe we're playing Man
58:10
United. We kick it long into the corner
58:14
flag. Ennenburg runs across from
58:17
centre half and boots the ball straight over the stand.
58:21
The ball went over the stand out for a throw in.
58:25
I can hear Roy Keane running back towards Ennenburg, Hennan
58:30
Hennan and he's blanking him. So I look round, Roy Keane's
58:34
head is exploding, He's going and he won't look at him right.
58:40
So they're going to get, they're waiting for the ball to come
58:42
back and he's marking me now in the box.
58:44
They got throwing and he's run all the way back to Edinburgh
58:48
and then he goes what? He goes.
58:51
It's people like you cost us games like this, kick the ball
58:54
up the line and he's gone. Fuck, you saw your own game out.
58:58
But he had it in his head. The only way Bradford could beat
59:03
us is if some of our defenders are lackadaisical today.
59:07
And he was he. He can wait to do it.
59:10
Let me, let me tell Alan Kennedy story.
59:12
It's just rang a bell in my head.
59:13
So we're playing about a Toro, you know, so you got a circle
59:16
and there's two people in the world trying to get the ball and
59:18
I'm standing next to Terry Mack and, and Alan Kennedy is a
59:23
really good player, really good type, a good lad, but daft is a
59:26
brush. So he's in the middle and Terry
59:29
Mack said next thing next time he comes back, trip him up.
59:33
I said no, I'm not going to you trip him up.
59:35
So I take the bait. So he comes out and I trip him
59:38
up and laughing like that and I get smashed on the side of the
59:42
face. So I've gone back.
59:44
They've got hold of me and I've got hold of him.
59:48
He gets loose and they give me another smack.
59:51
So I'm I'm two nil down at this time and then we get break up
59:56
and then it's obviously a little worm in here for for months.
1:00:01
Anyway, the following year we go to we go to Marbella of all
1:00:04
places to play in the pre season tournament and we're playing 8A
1:00:11
side 7 aside whatever it was in the heat.
1:00:15
And I will you stop giving the ball away?
1:00:17
Just, you know, stop giving it away.
1:00:21
Same again 5 minutes later, 1/3 time and he's come walking.
1:00:25
He's come walking to warming up. I ain't going to be second this
1:00:28
time. Retaliated first.
1:00:33
Yeah, but that's how it has to be, you know, and the staff
1:00:37
would encourage that. In my era, Steve Staunton, Ray
1:00:41
Houghton, non-stop. Morning.
1:00:44
Steve McMahon. Morning.
1:00:46
Moaning Mark Wright just shouting get hold of it and Ray
1:00:52
Ray was horrible to me. 3 clubs come made me maybe.
1:00:57
Yeah, he sharpened my he sharpened my thinking up.
1:01:02
Definitely Ray Houghton. But you see you, you had the
1:01:06
personality to be able to take that criticism.
1:01:09
You know, it's like Rushy was now they lost to Liverpool.
1:01:11
You know that the Biome for 350 grand off was at Chester.
1:01:16
Yeah. Comes to the dressing room,
1:01:18
didn't speak. Getting hammered all the time,
1:01:21
every day in training and the staff would never tell anyone to
1:01:26
back off that, you know, you're at Liverpool, it's a tough place
1:01:28
to be. You'll you'll survive or you'll
1:01:32
be sold. And Russia, I think went to see
1:01:34
the manager, Bob Paisley instead.
1:01:36
He was finding life difficult, maybe got on loan and then they
1:01:40
end up getting the team and the rest is history.
1:01:42
The higher how you go in football, the more severe the
1:01:46
banter and the criticism is in that dressing room and that's
1:01:49
something you have to deal with. Remember when you sign me every
1:01:53
day in training, Ronnie Moran's hammering me.
1:01:56
I mean every day. Move, move.
1:01:59
You admire in your pass Move. Graham, how much have we paid
1:02:03
for him? How much have we paid for him?
1:02:06
Roy, we've made a mistake. One day, honestly, they joined
1:02:12
in, didn't they? One day Jamie Redknapp and me
1:02:16
and Ronnie Moran are on the same team.
1:02:18
And Jamie, we broke out and Jamie passed to me.
1:02:23
And as the game ball's coming to me, Ronnie goes, Jamie, give it
1:02:27
to me. You know he can't play.
1:02:31
I went home much. I went home and I went.
1:02:33
I'm not, I'm not having this. So I thought, I'm going to have
1:02:36
to say something like you're spoiling training for me every
1:02:39
day. Give it to me.
1:02:42
He can't know he costed me 60 at the time when I was.
1:02:45
It's just. British record transfer.
1:02:46
I thought I could play and I went to see Graham, right?
1:02:50
And I went, no, I don't know what's going on, but Ronnie
1:02:54
Moran's hammering me every day. And he went.
1:02:59
Join the club Evo listen to. Come and listen to this.
1:03:02
Come and listen to this. He was tell him what you tell
1:03:04
him. I said, well, Evo, like Ronnie's
1:03:06
hammering me every day you've don't like, but Ronnie's
1:03:09
hammering me every day. It's like spoiling my like I
1:03:11
can't sleep like it's hammering me every day.
1:03:13
And Evo went Bowie. Come and listen to this.
1:03:17
Tell Bowie what you've just told me.
1:03:18
And eventually we got to Ronnie Moran and he went, Ronnie, he
1:03:22
goes, Ronnie, tell he goes. I said, well, you're hammering
1:03:25
me every day. He goes, well, what do you
1:03:27
expect? You're hopeless.
1:03:29
What do you expect you're at? Liverpool now.
1:03:31
Get on with it. And then he walks off, shaking
1:03:33
his head. Get on with it.
1:03:36
I play as a soft. We used to I would I love him to
1:03:39
have 5 minutes on a one day at training at a Premier League
1:03:43
club today. What he'd make of it, He would
1:03:46
We used to say that we used to come Bugsy running around Bugsy,
1:03:49
Bugsy you're only you're only happy when you're unhappy.
1:03:52
He turned a walk away and it'd be F off walk away.
1:03:57
It's just but I'd you responded to, I responded to you had to
1:04:01
be, you know, well. One day I was I was late for
1:04:05
training, right? Not good, he.
1:04:08
Didn't know this, so I went to Liverpool.
1:04:11
I'm DJ Russell, a golfer. It was my mate from Derby.
1:04:15
He said, do you want to buy a Mercedes 500SL?
1:04:19
Robert Lee, the golfer who now commentates on Sky.
1:04:22
He played in the German Open and he hasn't won enough money.
1:04:25
He's ordered the car but he can't afford to pay for it.
1:04:28
I said, how much is it? He went 82 grand, right?
1:04:31
That was in 199282. Well, he said, but you get a
1:04:35
voucher from the German Open, you get it for 52.
1:04:39
So I started thinking I'll buy it and sell it instead of losing
1:04:45
5 grand on a 20 grand car. I'll buy it and then sell it,
1:04:49
make some money. Can't take it into training.
1:04:52
Graham Souness has got a 500SL, a black one, right?
1:04:55
And it's better than this. So I can't, I can't.
1:04:59
So I used to drive to Anfield down the road and there's a fan
1:05:03
who let me park on his drive so nobody could see my car.
1:05:07
So I used to park, I used to park around the corner and no
1:05:12
one's seen my car, right. So one day I'm late.
1:05:16
Fog in the tunnel, fog in it. So the Wallasey, tunnel,
1:05:20
Wallasey. So I'm late, so I think, and I
1:05:22
scored four the night before in the UEFA Cup match.
1:05:26
So you think you can bring the car?
1:05:27
I'm thinking surely it must be all right.
1:05:30
Now's the time. Now's the time.
1:05:32
I'll be all right now because if he says anything, I scored four
1:05:34
last night. So I drove into the car park and
1:05:37
he's like the police discipline, police running around money,
1:05:40
He's everywhere. So I've drove in, got out my car
1:05:43
quick when in dressing room, thought got away with that.
1:05:48
So I'm getting changed. He comes in, who's is the flash
1:05:52
Mercedes in the car park? Steve, Steve, Nick up.
1:05:54
It's Dean's. It says.
1:05:57
Big time Charlie. Big Bugsy, big time Charlie's.
1:06:00
He's got it. He goes.
1:06:01
There's a shock. There's a shock.
1:06:04
I Roy, I told you whose car it would be.
1:06:07
I knew it'd be him. Hey, scored a few goals.
1:06:09
Have you scored? If you?
1:06:11
By the way, son, we've had better plays than you at this
1:06:13
club. Tag, leash rush.
1:06:14
You can Roger Hunt. Who do you think you are?
1:06:17
And by the way, get your keys out your pocket because your
1:06:20
back wheel is on the white line and it's selfish.
1:06:24
The bloke can't get in next to you and you'll take that on the
1:06:27
pitch with you. Selfish.
1:06:29
Go move your car it. Was a it was a life.
1:06:33
It was such a learning curve, not just about football, that
1:06:37
football club at that time, because of him, mostly because
1:06:39
of him. It was just I, I responded to it
1:06:43
was just a wonderful time. And he would say to you, look,
1:06:45
this is the second time I've told you this.
1:06:48
It means two things. Some that means the penny's not
1:06:52
dropped and you won't be a Liverpool player very long.
1:06:56
I was just, it was, it was harsh.
1:06:58
It was, it was full on do. You remember Norwich away,
1:07:02
Norwich away. Mark Wright played for England
1:07:04
against France at Wembley. I think it was England, France,
1:07:09
I'd played for Wales. We're all everywhere, don't we?
1:07:11
So we come back and it would be like Bath Thursday.
1:07:15
Get your mind then tactics. This they're giving you fill in
1:07:18
your head full of rubbish. Get your mind back on Liverpool,
1:07:22
Norwich await. Mark Robbins scores 2, Mark
1:07:24
Wright makes 2 mistakes and Mark Robbins scored two.
1:07:28
Right Thursday when I had to come in for the bath, I was 30
1:07:32
seconds late and I just jumped in the bath quick.
1:07:36
So we go in the dressing room. I'll never forget you had, you
1:07:39
were sat on the bench under the pegs and you had your foot up
1:07:43
like that and you were like this Norwich, he's got Norwich, got
1:07:49
beat by Norwich, Norwich and he goes, some of you need to pack
1:07:53
in international football. You can't do it.
1:07:57
You can't play for this club and think that's all right, you
1:08:00
can't do it. And Ronnie Moran's picking the
1:08:02
socks up off the floor in the kit.
1:08:05
You know the treatment table in the middle of the room.
1:08:06
He puts he lays the socks and the tie UPS by the way.
1:08:10
Liverpool. He'd save the tie UPS for next
1:08:12
week and he's putting them down, shaking his head like he'd.
1:08:15
Wrestle, wrestle, wrestle. And then he went quiet and he
1:08:19
went, seen that game, seen it coming, seen it coming Thursday.
1:08:26
And everyone's sitting there and he goes, what do you mean,
1:08:29
Ronnie? Yeah, in me late for the bath on
1:08:37
Thursday Late. 530 seconds. Late for the bath on Thursday.
1:08:41
I seen that coming, and Mark Wright stupidly piped up.
1:08:45
What's that got to do with today's performance?
1:08:49
He jumped up Roy Evans jumped up Phil Bosma.
1:08:53
That sums you UPS. And it's the little things that
1:08:56
make the big things. And it's it like just hammered
1:09:00
us, but it's my fault. But it shows about the standards
1:09:03
that the senior pros and the managers set.
1:09:06
And that's why you achieved what YouTube.
1:09:09
I mean, look, we have literally touched the sides.
1:09:11
We we could talk for 24 hours for sure.
1:09:13
Do you know? Just an absolute pleasure to see
1:09:15
you mate. Well, no, it was a pleasure to
1:09:17
see you again because I never thought I'd see you again after
1:09:20
the balls you used to it down. Of your career.
1:09:28
Guys, thank you. That's been simpler.
1:09:29
I enjoyed that. Thanks very much.
1:09:31
I enjoyed that pleasure. Good fun.
1:09:34
It's good fun.