Latest / Identity at the Center / #244 - Authenticate 2023: Identity at the Center Live

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#244 - Authenticate 2023: Identity at the Center Live · Identity at the Center

0:05
This is identity at the center. If it has anything to do with
0:10
IAM, this is the go to podcast now your hosts Jim McDonald and
0:17
Jeff Stedman. All right.
0:25
Can everybody hear me? OK?
0:27
Good. Welcome to a special
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Authenticate 2023 edition of the Identity at the Center podcast.
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I'm Jeff, and that's Jim. Hey, Jim.
0:35
Hey, Jeff. How are you?
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Oh, not so bad yourself. I'm doing great.
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You're normally in the podcast. Is that where I start out with
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the complaint? I don't have one.
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That's unlike you I. Know well.
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I mean the polls great, the weather's great, password stink,
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but pass keys are great. You know, so you found something
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to complain about right there. I snuck that in.
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So this is the first time we've done something like this, where
0:59
we got up on the mainstage. Usually we're tucked away in a
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corner somewhere where we're not visible because we have faces
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for radio and we have voices for a silent movie.
1:08
So we try to keep it simple here.
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So far, the best part of this conference has to definitely be
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I can't see him, but Nick, the guy on the Segway with the
1:17
camera, that guy's awesome. He's here, I think for the last
1:20
couple years. Andrew, it's at least a couple
1:22
years, right? Yeah.
1:24
OK, so that guy's awesome. He's like, when we're talking
1:26
superheroes for Authenticate, I think he should get like a
1:28
honorable mention for that as well.
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People are probably wondering, you know, what is this session
1:33
about? Seems like everybody left, which
1:35
is fine. This is really a conversation
1:39
around identity that we're going to be having.
1:41
So what we do from a podcast perspective at the Identity
1:44
Center is we started this about 4 1/2 years ago.
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It's a side project that Jim and I have been working on for that
1:50
long. We put out weekly episodes, got
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thousands of listeners around the world, hopefully some
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friendly faces and ears in here as well.
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And yeah, it's something we do weekly.
2:00
And if you want to add Jim I. It's just grown so much, you
2:03
know, you mentioned thousands of listeners around the globe.
2:07
I remember the first episode we had 25 downloads.
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We knew who all those people. Were that was 20 of them.
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Yeah, and now we're up to like, episode 2. 3238 went live this
2:17
morning, so we're technically competing with ourself as we're
2:19
doing this at the same time. Yeah.
2:22
What do you do during the day, Jim?
2:24
I am an identity advisory practice consultant.
2:29
I lead an identity practice. We both work for a company
2:31
called RSM, 5th largest consulting firm in the US.
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Jim and I have been working together for eight years.
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This is something that again kind of a labour of love for us.
2:41
What we do want to talk about today though is Fido
2:45
authentication. We've got AI will call it a
2:47
plethora. Of identity product managers who
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are going to join us up on the stage here in a second.
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So I'm going to go ahead and introduce them now and they'll
2:54
come back from backstage. We've got Daniel Grubby from
2:58
TikTok, Christian Brand from Google and Mahender and Matt
3:02
Event from eBay. So give him a round of applause
3:03
as we're walking up here. Guys in the Arsenio Hall.
3:11
Right. That shows our age by doing
3:13
that. All right.
3:16
So I know we're kind of running, you know, weirdly on time
3:19
schedules. We're going to kind of jump
3:20
right into it guys. You guys are all, sorry, I'm
3:23
moving the mic around here. You guys are all product
3:26
managers from an identity perspective.
3:28
Tell us a little bit about your roles and mahender, why don't we
3:31
start with you? What?
3:32
Just briefly describe what your role is, sure.
3:34
Hi everyone I lead authentication product at eBay.
3:38
I've been working in the identity industry for almost a
3:41
decade now. A huge shout out to my
3:44
engineers, UX designers and architects and data analysts who
3:47
are Some of them are sitting right here and yeah, that's me.
3:52
Great, happy to go next. Hi folks, I'm Christian.
3:55
I've been working on passkey and fighter related efforts for
3:58
about a decade. Also, I'll give a shout out to
4:00
the team. We have a lot of Googlers here
4:02
this week. We've been working towards
4:05
getting passkeys out for Google accounts for a long time.
4:09
Earlier this year, as Andrew mentioned in May, we finally
4:11
made it available as an elective like as an elective flow, as an
4:15
option for users to try and play with.
4:17
And then earlier this month, I believe just the last week on
4:19
Tuesday, we announced that we are going to start.
4:24
Making passkeys the default option for users.
4:26
So actually today I'm sorry I'm taking too long, but I will say
4:30
this one thing today. If you do a web search in Google
4:32
Search on Mac OS, iOS, and other places, you should start seeing
4:36
a nudge on Google search to start using passkeys.
4:41
All right, Daniel, That's what we talked to follow up with, but
4:44
go for it, yeah. Thank you.
4:47
So my name is Dana Ruby and I am a product manager on our account
4:51
platform team at Tiktok. And I focus specifically on
4:53
account security, but we work on everything from signing up the
4:56
new user journey as well as logging in.
4:59
Yeah. And similarly, Tiktok has now
5:02
launched Pass keys globally on iOS, which is really exciting as
5:05
our first kind of step in the Pass Keys, you know, And we have
5:08
a future road map as well, which we're excited to share with
5:10
everyone. But hey Mahindar, eBay started
5:14
with web auth N very early. Why is that?
5:18
So at eBay, you know we take pride in building magical
5:21
experiences for our customers and putting our customer first.
5:25
I would say two things help with you know, starting web auth and
5:28
one is clearly articulating the benefits of I would say
5:31
usability and security that web auth and provided at that point
5:35
in time. So you know reducing friction is
5:39
going to help build the business or enable the business and
5:42
improving security is going to build trust on the marketplace
5:45
and helps you know hence helps with the customer retention as
5:48
well. The 2nd aspect would be that
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eBay is also an early adopter of Fido UAF.
5:54
We built native biometrics way back in time.
5:58
So they bought them, and even passkeys and password list is a
6:02
natural continuation to that. Christian, you just kind of
6:05
teased the announcement that Google made about pass keys by
6:08
default. I'm curious, you know, I've been
6:11
a supporter of that for a while. I've.
6:12
I've frequently pointed to Google on our show about passkey
6:15
adoption and how easy it was. What drove that decision to make
6:19
that announcement? I think it was last week to say
6:20
hey now. By default we're using pass keys
6:23
as our primary authentication. Yeah.
6:25
That's a great question. So I mean, at Google, we're
6:28
extremely data-driven. So everything we do is usually
6:32
based on numbers or metrics. It was a calculated decision
6:36
earlier this year when we started in May to roll out
6:40
passkeys. We wanted to really do two
6:41
things right. Overnight adoption was not the
6:44
goal. Primary goal was to show the
6:46
rest of the world that this technology is ready for prime
6:48
time, right? We're willing to essentially
6:51
subject our users to the Passkey experience if they choose to,
6:56
you know, take up the challenge essentially.
7:00
The goal was not to get hundreds of millions of users overnight.
7:03
We wanted to start, you know, showing the world, showing
7:05
developers, showing other companies that the technology is
7:08
ready. But the second part of this was
7:09
we wanted to start getting data right.
7:11
We wanted to start having a set of users who self selected.
7:15
So if something goes off the rails, these users know where to
7:18
turn it on and turn it off. Luckily nothing went off the
7:21
rails. So I'll kind of like, you know,
7:22
preference that, but start to get data, right?
7:25
So, so we were gathering data for the last think about five
7:28
months. We feel like we have enough data
7:32
to show us what works, what still needs more work, and
7:37
again, you know, happy to go into some details at some point.
7:40
But for now suffice to say we think the experience is on par
7:45
from a reliability perspective with other types of technologies
7:49
we allow during signing. But more importantly, passkeys
7:53
are easier to use for users, and we have some survey results that
7:56
I think we also made available as part of these blog posts
7:58
users find. Passkeys easier to use.
8:01
The perception is that they're more secure, which of course is
8:03
correct. And in general we're just trying
8:06
to move the world to a space where we're saying don't hide
8:09
your passkey support behind, you know, 3 clicks in some account
8:13
settings. And I know that made sense,
8:15
right? That's what we did as well.
8:16
You can actually start to subject users to this front and
8:19
centre, even users you've never heard the term passkey.
8:22
We think the technology is at the point in most of the flows
8:26
where users can start seeing this and intuitively.
8:29
Do we understand what they need to do?
8:32
Daniel, you're with TikTok. First off, do you do the dances?
8:36
Second off, you know, you guys are kind of newcomers to Fido.
8:42
Why jump in now? Sure.
8:45
Yeah. To answer your first question,
8:47
no. I don't do the.
8:48
Dances, I'm not a dancer. But second, yeah, so why now?
8:53
I I think, why not now, right? The technology has obviously
8:56
been adopted by a lot of big players in the industry and
8:59
Tiktok wants to be a part of that.
9:01
I think that what we know at Tiktok is that one.
9:04
Like you said, we want a user friendly but most secure login
9:07
experience. The second thing is, is we know
9:09
that Tiktok has a lot of login options, right?
9:11
You can log into Tiktok with a password with an SMSOTP code, a
9:15
third party option. We want to make sure that with
9:18
this plethora of options that we also reduce the risk of all of
9:21
those at the same time. Offering users a passkey does
9:24
that in a user friendly way, especially with the way that we
9:27
implemented it, which upsells passkey as the primary login
9:30
method for users who created it. And then the last one is
9:33
essentially that Tiktok had already invested in 502
9:36
internally. We wanted to expand that
9:38
investment to make sure that the most secure login methods that
9:40
we offer to our employees are also offered to our users on the
9:43
platform. So really creating consistency
9:46
there as well as important. So how?
9:47
Did you handle communicating Pass keys to your end users?
9:50
Yeah, of course. I think one of the biggest
9:52
considerations, especially, you know, at a social media company
9:56
like TikTok where you have a lot of young users and things like
9:58
that. Are they really going to
10:00
understand the tech, the technical architecture of what
10:04
is a passkey, things like that? Even asking my own friends, I
10:06
was like, hey, you know, let's test this out.
10:08
What do you guys think they're like, oh, I already do this
10:10
every day in all my banking apps.
10:12
You know, I use my face to log in.
10:14
I'm like, that's not really what this is, But that's fine.
10:17
So we found that and similar to what the UX guidelines from Fido
10:21
say. Is that if you help users to
10:24
understand or play off what they think is happening, this really
10:27
can help adoption and increase popularity of it.
10:29
So playing off things like Face ID, Touch ID as ways to login
10:33
and using that to communicate to users of this new login method
10:37
will really help with adoption and popularity.
10:39
I'm curious because it's not always happy path, right?
10:42
There's things that go wrong, things that could be better.
10:45
Are there things that were discovered that you consider you
10:48
know, roadblocks, or things that still need to be worked out?
10:51
I don't know Mahender or Christian or or Daniel.
10:53
Whoever wants to take that one. I mean I'm I'm happy to start.
10:55
I I think there are many rough ages, right.
10:58
But I think it really depends on user flows.
11:01
There are certain flows that work beautifully, take the same
11:04
device flow for example, right. If you have a pass key available
11:06
on the device that you're on, all you have to do is show your
11:09
face and touch your fingerprint. I mean there is there is no
11:11
dispute there, right. That experience is much better,
11:14
much easier than using a password and other forms of
11:17
second factor which usually accompanies that that password
11:20
with sensitive logins. When you do not have a pass key
11:23
on the machine, we have two challenges, right?
11:25
The one challenge is a technical challenge.
11:27
Does the protocol work reliably? There is Bluetooth involved.
11:31
There is network communications involved, There is the scanning
11:33
of AQR code involved in some cases.
11:35
So that's one challenge. There is a second challenge,
11:37
which is users just don't get that flow yet, right?
11:40
They don't understand necessarily.
11:42
We're thinking that Post COVID, like lots of users, especially
11:44
in the US, used to scanning QR codes because we've seen them on
11:48
menus and other places for a long time that.
11:51
Doesn't necessarily translate to other places in the world and
11:53
even in the US users are sometimes used to scanning these
11:56
characters with certain apps and certain phones don't really
11:58
understand that well. So I think there's really a user
12:01
behaviour issue and then there is a technical issue.
12:03
On the technical front we're doing a lot of work and I think
12:05
you know everyone involved here and I see a lot of familiar
12:08
faces involved in that. You know, process is is doing a
12:11
fantastic job and we're pushing the technology forward.
12:14
We're, you know, sanding down these rough edges and yes, we
12:17
are at a point where we can start to subject users to these
12:20
flows, although. So I think that's where I would
12:22
say the elective portion still comes in.
12:25
I don't think we want to put that front and centre for every
12:28
user. If you take these side by side
12:30
entering a password, scanning a QR code and going through that
12:32
process, most users will still tell you actually, you know
12:34
what, my password is probably easier.
12:35
It's not secure, but it's easier, right?
12:38
We need to move the needle so that the QR code flow becomes
12:41
second nature. And that kind of brings me to
12:43
the second point, which is who's going to take that first plunge
12:46
to put their, you know, 100 million or a bullion users
12:49
through QR code scans rather than?
12:51
And doing passwords right, I think that is where we are
12:55
saying you know with our elective or the by default kind
12:59
of approach that we've taken, let's do that where it makes
13:01
sense, let's do that for the same device passkey flows and
13:04
that's what we're doubling down on right now.
13:06
Whereas the QR code flow remains an option for users and we want
13:11
to gradually turn that volume upwards with the rest of
13:15
industry. And that's why it's so important
13:16
also to have my, you know, partners here with us on on
13:20
stage because. We don't think pass keys is
13:23
something that one company can take forward and make a success.
13:28
We need the industry to show users that is how we are going
13:31
to work with this going forward. Scanning AQR code is certainly
13:34
easier than opening a password manager on your phone and
13:37
retyping a complex password. So I do think we need to kind of
13:40
like push users to understand why these flows might be easier
13:45
to use than than the the the status quo.
13:47
But it'll take industry. I guess participation to really
13:52
move that. I'd like to add to that as well.
13:54
So I broadly see 3 categories, 3 roadblocks, right?
13:58
One is user awareness. Passwords are still common,
14:02
password managers are common to you know at eBay.
14:05
If you look at it, users don't see authentication as a thing
14:09
that they need to do. They worry about buying and
14:11
selling. Same applies to Google, like
14:13
they they just want to search Tiktok, you know they want to
14:15
make videos. Right, authentication is in the
14:18
is the last thing that they worry about, right?
14:20
So to be able to create a smart contextual authentication that
14:24
works seamlessly across devices is is of paramount importance I
14:28
would say. So the second roadblock is the
14:32
you know across devices right? Password.
14:36
I mean pass keys or any technology needs to work like
14:38
how password managers work. You go to any device you should
14:41
be able to use, right. So interoperability becomes a
14:45
key here. We've seen some of with eBay
14:48
data as well. Users enroll into these password
14:51
list methods, but then they get a new device or they go to a new
14:54
device and then they are back to passwords.
14:56
So I would say these are the, you know, two or three
14:59
roadblocks that we encountered at at eBay.
15:01
As well. So it wouldn't be an episode of
15:04
Identity at the Centre if we didn't talk about AI.
15:06
Which you open and call it AIAI sometimes.
15:09
How do you guys see AI impacting authentication going forward?
15:13
Dana, we'll start with you. Yeah, sure.
15:15
So I think that the way I view authentication in our journey,
15:19
right, is before someone logs in when they are already logged in,
15:23
and then after they've completely lost access from
15:24
their account in the first two scenarios.
15:27
The way that AI has helped us already honestly, and the way
15:30
that it will continue to help us is to look at aberrations and
15:32
users behaviour. We can map out, you know, what
15:35
we expect from a user when they're logging in, when they're
15:38
already in an account, and then understand when that can change.
15:41
That can help provide us, especially with passkey, right?
15:44
If users you know use a passkey to login most of the time we'll
15:48
know when they don't. And it makes, as we heard
15:50
earlier today, passwords or other methods more risky as a
15:53
login. And that can be another signal
15:55
we use to understand as a behaviour operation.
15:58
The other way that we look at it is when a user's completely lost
16:01
access to their account, how do we authenticate their identity
16:04
and get them back in? Let's say they deleted their
16:06
pass key, right? They have no other login method
16:08
on their account. How do we know that this is the
16:10
authentic owner for, you know, companies that are in social
16:14
media? There are a couple different
16:15
challenges to this. There's AI around biometric
16:18
authentication that you can use. Obviously there are always
16:20
compliance issues around that, but also with social media you
16:24
don't always have to be your authentic self.
16:27
So biometrics are not always going to work right?
16:29
Wait, what? What?
16:30
I know, surprise everyone, you can be whoever you want online.
16:33
But basically, for some companies, you know, like
16:38
Facebook, there's a soft requirement that you have to be
16:40
yourself on Facebook at other companies like Instagram or, you
16:44
know, TikTok. You can have a pet account, a
16:47
meme account, really anything you want, right?
16:49
And how do we know that this is you?
16:51
Especially if we've lost all other authentication methods And
16:54
and I think that's really where I'm curious to see how AI can
16:57
help us in the future as well. Mahender Yeah, I think AI works
17:01
both ways. The good side of it is it can
17:03
help personalized and, you know, secure authentication.
17:06
You know Gen. AI can start, you know,
17:09
authenticating users through natural conversations, right?
17:12
You have. Zero trust security that that is
17:15
coming up where AI plays a big role as well.
17:18
But if you look at the flip side of it, I mean we saw a lot of
17:21
keynote speakers talk about you know AI used for hacking and you
17:25
know taking users credentials. I think you know the future of
17:30
how AI would help. You know, technology like
17:33
passkeys would be in. Distinguishing between I would
17:36
say real humans and AI bot that's coming to attack.
17:39
I think that's where the industry is going forward is
17:42
what I would, I would like to add to what Daniel said.
17:45
Hey Christian, feel free to add in on AI, but I also want to
17:49
know what's next after peskies. That's great because I think
17:53
that question addresses the first one as well.
17:55
So I want to add on to what Daniel Mahendra said, not to
17:57
repeat that I I think at Google we have a slightly.
18:02
I don't want to say a different responsibility, but but almost
18:06
like more responsibility. If you think about it, your
18:09
Google account is also where a lot of your passkeys are going
18:12
to end up. Google is the root store for a
18:15
lot of passkeys for users. If you're an Android user, by
18:17
default your passkeys for other services will go to your Google
18:20
account. That's where we keep them for
18:22
you. So when you buy a new phone or
18:23
when you change devices, you get access to your passkeys again.
18:26
That all makes sense, right? The challenge is if you are a
18:30
single device user and we have a lot of single device.
18:32
Exist in the world if you break your phone or you lose it, or
18:36
you have to sell one phone to buy your next one, which a lot
18:39
of users have to do in some territories, some countries.
18:42
How do you get back into your Google account with a passkey if
18:45
your passkey is stored on your phone?
18:47
Big challenge, right? Huge issue.
18:50
Today we fall back to other forms of authentication for
18:53
that. Passwords, SMS, you know,
18:57
sending a prompt to an e-mail address, whatever.
19:00
Most of these technologies really don't work at scale, and
19:03
they don't work at the level of security where we want past keys
19:06
to be, what we have started to look at and what not on the eyes
19:10
I. I recently went on a trip to
19:12
China and I had to activate WeChat, and WeChat uses remote
19:16
facial recognition. That's how you authenticate your
19:18
payment profile actually work remarkably well.
19:20
However, there's a lot of, you know, concerns around like
19:23
remote biometrics and I know that's one of the things which
19:25
at Fider we kind of like claim. The whole point is everything is
19:29
local, right? Your biometrics remain local to
19:31
your device. So it's great on the privacy
19:33
front. The problem is.
19:35
If you need to authenticate a user back into their account,
19:39
think of account recovery. What do you use?
19:42
Remote biometrics is a potential solution.
19:45
However, if you think about remote biometrics, whatever that
19:47
like is maybe remote facial recognition?
19:49
It's remote voice recognition, if we think back at Rachel's
19:53
presentation this morning. Jedi has made this stuff, you
19:57
know, untrustable. It's not really trustworthy
20:00
anymore, right? If I'm able to create a, at
20:04
least today, two-dimensional picture of a user, mostly these
20:08
remote matching stuff is all two-dimensional, That's a
20:11
challenge. Voice recognition, again,
20:13
another challenge. I know there's a lot of
20:14
financial institutions who sunk a lot of money into remote voice
20:18
recognition features. I I'm not quite sure that we are
20:23
going to be able to keep up with.
20:25
What's the rate of advances there in order to get that
20:28
technology to a point where it it can detect that this is an
20:33
electronically altered or a generated, you know, piece of
20:36
media. That is what that is what
20:38
bothers me a little bit. So we're starting to think of
20:40
Google. How do we solve this account
20:42
recovery problem? We have a couple of ideas.
20:45
We're working on a whole bunch of things right now, but AI is
20:49
really throwing a bit of a spanner in the works in some of
20:52
these. The Unhappy Path is something we
20:55
see exploited quite a bit. I think we saw it recently with
20:58
events in Vegas. We're running short on time, but
21:01
we always try to carve out some time to end On a lighter note,
21:04
this is where we just have some fun, not necessarily identity
21:06
related, something that we can just kind of goof off around.
21:10
What we typically do is we'll ask our guests hobbies, things
21:13
they do outside of Denny, etcetera.
21:14
So we've kind of tailored a few different questions here.
21:18
Jan, I'm going to start with you.
21:19
So I've come up with this exciting scenario for you.
21:22
If you had to perform one song to go viral on TikTok, and if
21:27
you nailed it, everybody would suddenly be enrolled in passkeys
21:32
for all their accounts, what would you sing or perform?
21:36
Sure, probably. Who are you?
21:38
By The Who, I think it's the most punny of answers I could
21:42
give. Clever.
21:44
But for context, I grew up performing, singing.
21:48
I was trained in Opera. Randomly, I used to live in
21:51
Paris. I sang in the Paris Opera when I
21:53
was there. I LED an acapella group,
21:55
composed all those songs. I was in a band in Austin for a
21:58
long time when I lived there. Way too many moments on stage
22:02
performing. So the one that I the one song I
22:05
didn't love to sing the most though, was somebody to Love.
22:07
By Queen, that was always a lot of fun.
22:10
Queens are hitting every bar, right?
22:11
Right. Yeah.
22:12
Yeah. Yeah.
22:12
So maybe that one is that. You must be a karaoke superstar.
22:16
Let's all go after this. But we have lakes.
22:19
If you wanted to sing. Something I know, right?
22:22
Hendar, you and I have a shared experience through in that 1% of
22:25
humanity that has gone to the top of Half Dome in Yosemite
22:29
National. Yeah, really awesome.
22:33
Describe that experience for us. It was nerve wracking, I should
22:37
say the least. You know I'm not fit.
22:40
You can look at me right? And I was like, let's go to Hop
22:43
Dome with my friend. And we started at 3:00 AM.
22:47
We probably saw a bear or we think we saw a bear.
22:49
We don't know. We climbed up.
22:51
I think till then it was fine. Like we we took six hours, 6 1/2
22:55
hours to climb up the Half Dome. We finished all our water,
22:59
right. And coming back down was a pain.
23:02
I mean I cannot explain. It's easier to implement past
23:06
keys than climb Half Dome. I would say that.
23:09
That's a professional tie in. You should do a podcast,
23:12
Christian. You have a variety of interests.
23:16
You've learned to play guitar, you're learning golf, and
23:21
obviously you're in digital identity.
23:23
Of those three things, which is the hardest?
23:26
Well, that's a great question. First, before that, I just want
23:29
to tell Daniel we've done karaoke at 7 out of the last 7
23:32
Fido Plenaries. So we'll we'll we'll hook you up
23:35
it. Finally has been thrown down.
23:38
Absolutely. It's interesting, right?
23:40
I think golf takes a lot of time, right?
23:45
It's four hours essentially for me to play 18, which like you
23:48
know, takes me away from the house for for a lot.
23:50
So it's hard to invest proper time in that guitar.
23:55
You can become mediocre or or you know kind of like help
24:01
yourself to the point that you know you wouldn't embarrass
24:03
yourself. You have to play a song I think
24:05
much quicker than with necessarily you know working in
24:10
the identity space, like I I feel like identity is is almost
24:13
like binary, right? You're either, you know don't
24:16
really get the principles and and you're not really, you know,
24:20
I I guess part of the solution until you are, until you really
24:23
can contribute. There's just so much happening
24:25
in this space. It's so fast moving.
24:28
Not to discourage anyone from like participating in the field,
24:30
of course, but I think there's there's such a lot going on.
24:33
And if you are disconnected and you're not staying on top of
24:36
things for three months, the world has changed so much that
24:39
you almost like, have to I don't wanna say like relearn.
24:41
So I feel like, you know, playing golf and and and playing
24:44
the guitar I enjoy because it's kind of like riding a bike.
24:47
Once you have the skills you retain them today, 10 years from
24:51
now, you know you can probably still pick it up and and and
24:53
help yourself versus the identity space which is just so
24:57
fast changing. So again, I'd say identity,
25:00
certainly the hardest thing that I'm involved in right now do
25:03
enjoy golf. But I will say, picking up the
25:05
guitar and being able to just, you know, do something for 5
25:07
minutes is is one of the reasons why I love that instrument.
25:12
One of the things I like about the identity industry is just
25:14
when you think you know what you're doing, you don't the ID
25:19
Pro organization. And I think I saw EM here
25:21
somewhere, he might have stepped out and I'm probably butchered
25:23
the stat. But there's a annual report that
25:26
comes out every year of skill survey and they talk about, you
25:29
know, when did you feel most comfortable in identity?
25:32
And the numbers changed over the years.
25:34
But I remember seeing, and I think it was a couple years ago,
25:36
it was 10 years. 10 years of identity and access management
25:40
experience is when you start to think you know what you're
25:42
doing. I would encourage folks, reach
25:46
out, talk to people. There's lots of good resources.
25:49
It's been a great industry to work in for for a lot of folks.
25:51
But we're going to go ahead and start to wrap things up.
25:55
I think it was mentioned earlier, there is a Expo hall
25:58
just next door. Make sure that you go out and
26:00
check out. There's a lot of good solutions
26:01
out there. The challenge is there's a lot
26:04
of good solutions out there, so you have to try and find the
26:06
right fit for your organizations.
26:08
And we're going to be podcasting in Eclipse 2, which is sort of
26:12
behind the Expo in the hallway there.
26:14
So we have an episode later this afternoon that we're going to be
26:17
recording as well as pretty much all day tomorrow.
26:19
So feel free to come in, drop in, check this out.
26:21
What we do, they will be longer shows as we sort of normally
26:24
would do it. And if you like what you heard,
26:27
idacpodcast.com subscribe, It's a two man operation.
26:31
It's literally just Jim and I, and we do this every week,
26:33
vendor neutral conversations. Want to give a round of applause
26:36
to our guests here on the stage. Thank you so much for joining
26:39
us. And we're going to go ahead and
26:45
thank also Megan, Andrew and Adrian for helping make this
26:49
happen. So this is a highlight for us on
26:51
the show, to be able to be up on a stage like this and just have
26:54
this conversation. So wanted to give Andrew an
26:58
opportunity to come up or maybe it's Megan to make a quick
27:00
announcement. We'll go ahead and play our
27:03
outdoor music and say, OK, we're pretty much it and that's done.
27:07
Thanks for listening and we'll talk with everybody in the next
27:09
one. You've been listening to
27:15
identity at the center. We hope you've enjoyed the show.
27:20
Make sure to like, rate and review and we'll be back soon.
27:24
But in the meantime, hit the website at
27:26
identity@thecenter.com and find us on Twitter at IDAC Podcast.
27:34
See you next time on Identity at the Center.