Latest / True Crime and Wine Time / S5 E24 - The Milk Carton That Changed America - The Etan Kalil Patz Story Part 2

Transcript

S5 E24 - The Milk Carton That Changed America - The Etan Kalil Patz Story Part 2 · True Crime and Wine Time

• 0:13
  Speaker 1: Hello, Hello, Hello, hello, hello.
• 0:18
  Speaker 2: I put pink on just for the show tonight because
• 0:20
  Speaker 2: I didn't wear pink today all day.
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: You're gonna warm pink all week, rumor has it, I.
• 0:25
  Speaker 2: Haven't, and I guess I'm not sure. I'm okay, but
• 0:28
  Speaker 2: I at least put pink on tonight. And I'm not
• 0:32
  Speaker 2: feeling the pink, but I put it on hoping that
• 0:34
  Speaker 2: it would seep into my blood.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I just thought your blood was pink instead of red.
• 0:39
  Speaker 2: I thought it was too, but apparently this week my
• 0:42
  Speaker 2: blood doesn't know what's going on. But hello, everyone, Hello,
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: I've here, I'm alive.
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: Yay.
• 0:56
  Speaker 2: Are you still wearing your cute little socks?
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: Yes?
• 1:00
  Speaker 2: Are they helping?
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: I think? I don't know. I haven't taken them off yet,
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: so I think so they don't hurt as much as
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: they have the last two days, So I do think
• 1:10
  Speaker 1: they've been.
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: Cute.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Lama, old lady socks.
• 1:15
  Speaker 2: Hey, you know what, they're not old lady socks because
• 1:19
  Speaker 2: they're really cute. Nobody would know what kind of sucks
• 1:21
  Speaker 2: they were if you didn't tell them.
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: That's probably true. My outfit today is hilarious because I
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: have on I've been wearing the dress we wore for
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: our live Ohio show. And then I on my compression socks. Right,
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: the skirt doesn't like the dress doesn't go all the
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: way to the floor, you know, so then I have
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: these like Lama compression socks on with my like winter booties.
• 1:43
  Speaker 2: Okay, the fact that you're wearing winter booties when it
• 1:47
  Speaker 2: was one hundred here today is just only.
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: It was the highest sixty four today, maybe sixty seven. Yeah.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: See, I agree with Lady and Gray just say you
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: have cute socks. Nobody knows, right, and they aren't old
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: lady socks. That's right because you're not old, so they
• 2:07
  Speaker 2: can't be old Lady's song.
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: It's true, that's right. I'm cool, cool you old person.
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: It's fine anyway.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: Hello, everybody that's in the chat, and mostly just I
• 2:20
  Speaker 2: want to welcome everyone to another episode of True Crime
• 2:24
  Speaker 2: and Wine Time, the podcast where we n cork the
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: most jaw dropping true crime stories while slipping something smooth
• 2:32
  Speaker 2: to take the edge off. And guys, I'm gonna just
• 2:35
  Speaker 2: warn you you want to pour a glass, lock your doors,
• 2:38
  Speaker 2: and we're gonna uncork the truth behind some of the
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: darkest crimes. But with this case tonight, this is going
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: to be the rant episode. I've decided this one and
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: the next one. If you do not like it hearing
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: me and Mama rant, might be a good time to
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: just hit mute.
• 2:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, but we're justified, you'll see as we tell the story,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: don't I.
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: Mean, I think we're justified. I don't want to tell
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: anyone else what to think.
• 3:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true, I won't, but your opinion will be wrong.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Now I'm just kidding. I know, I'm just kidding. All
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: opinions are always welcome no matter what. Everybody's respectful here.
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: So anyway, before we get into it, thanks for watching tonight.
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: If you're watching us on YouTube, you guys know the drill,
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: press the like button. It lets everybody know that we
• 3:29
  Speaker 1: are live. Subscribe to our channel, and hip the notification
• 3:33
  Speaker 1: bells so you never miss when we go live or
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: drop an episode. You can also become a member of
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: our YouTube channel, which comes with all sorts of exclusive perks.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: We're going to be dropping some big news in the
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: next couple of weeks or so about membership perks and tears,
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: But lips are sealed, secret secret secrets. All you got
• 3:56
  Speaker 1: to do is click the joining button and pick which
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: here works best for you. And if you're listening to
• 4:00
  Speaker 1: this as a pod, please leave a rating, download a review,
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: whatever it is on whichever platform you use, do it.
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: It helps our little pod out tremendously. And it's free,
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: So we love that. I love free because I am cheap,
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: so i'd like love that free.
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: Free is the best price.
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: The best, the best, Terry. Why don't you tell us
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: what we will be covering?
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: So tonight, guys, we are bringing you part two of
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: the Aton Paid Story, and I want to warn you
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: guys at a time that this episode will discuss child
• 4:36
  Speaker 2: sexual abuse, not in detail, of course, and if you
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: find that subject hard or disturbing orch triggering, then this
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: is not going to be the episode for you. And guys,
• 4:47
  Speaker 2: that is okay. We will see you next time.
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: That's right, we will, And I can tell you there
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: will be rants, of a lot of them, a lot.
• 4:58
  Speaker 2: I guarantee there will be a lot of rants tonight.
• 5:03
  Speaker 2: But before we start tonight's show, I want to tell
• 5:06
  Speaker 2: everyone that I will be live in downtown Bastrop, Texas,
• 5:10
  Speaker 2: which is this charming, little cute town outside of Austin,
• 5:14
  Speaker 2: on September thirteenth, at the CC Wine Co and Company.
• 5:21
  Speaker 2: My eyes are like so blurry.
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: And as far as you went to the eye doctor today,
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: I did.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I did, And I will be covering the Stacey Stits
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: murder along with the controversy around the conviction of Rodney Reid. Now,
• 5:35
  Speaker 2: this is a small venu, so it will be an
• 5:38
  Speaker 2: intimate conversation with friends and great wine and guys. Tickets
• 5:44
  Speaker 2: are on sell now and I'm kind of excited about
• 5:50
  Speaker 2: this because it's it's a case that oh it's a lot.
• 5:56
  Speaker 2: I mean, I even reached out to Kim Kardashian because
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: she met with Rodney Reid, not that she will ever respond,
• 6:06
  Speaker 2: but hey, you don't know if you don't.
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: Ask, right, Harry will literally reach out to anybody. Yeah,
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: and I love her for it.
• 6:13
  Speaker 2: And said, hey, would love to know why you think
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: he's innocent.
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: So but and you guys, if you're members of our channel,
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: like I just talked about, you can watch this live show.
• 6:26
  Speaker 1: It'll stream to all of our members only. All of
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: our live in person shows get streams, So just another
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: another exciting reason to become a member of our channel
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: and help support us. There.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and there will be Q and A with
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: this because the venue is so intimate there in the
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: tasting room, it's gonna be there's gonna be a lot
• 6:46
  Speaker 2: of interaction, I think, so it'll be. It'll be fun
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: now and tonight. I am even drinking a bottle that
• 6:54
  Speaker 2: I got that I picked up from CC Wine and Co.
• 6:58
  Speaker 2: So it is I'm gonna have to put on my glasses.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: I'm enjoying a Jean Laurent Blanc de noir champagne. And
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: they say it wraps around the palate with rich resonant fruit, honey, almonds,
• 7:14
  Speaker 2: dried flowers and spices, a hint of ash, smoke and
• 7:19
  Speaker 2: licorice developing the glass, adding feather complexity and guys, wow,
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: I taste a little bit of smoke, a little bit
• 7:29
  Speaker 2: of licorice, and I taste honeydew melon.
• 7:33
  Speaker 1: Interesting. That is a lot of different flowers. That's interesting.
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: I'll come at once. It's like it starts with one
• 7:40
  Speaker 2: and then it ends with another, and.
• 7:43
  Speaker 1: I kind of like it. I love that. What are
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: you drinking to night? I'm drinking, Well, I'm almost done,
• 7:52
  Speaker 1: don't judge me. I'm drinking oliver Our Winery. Well. I
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: had a glass when I was in court earlier, and
• 8:01
  Speaker 1: then with dinner. So you know. Anyway, I'm drinking Oliver
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: Winery Camelot mead orange blossom honey wine. Whoa, that's quite
• 8:11
  Speaker 1: the sentence there. But it's quite delicious and smooth. I
• 8:14
  Speaker 1: think it's pretty good. But it is sweet. I don't know.
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: It tastes like it has the honey after no more
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: than orange. I don't really taste any of the orange blossom.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: Oh I just sound sweet. I had this on my
• 8:31
  Speaker 1: floor like a dingus, and there was dog hair that
• 8:35
  Speaker 1: touched the bottom.
• 8:37
  Speaker 2: Oh right, it's just hair. It's okay.
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: Oh it's keta, you know, or in her hair. But no,
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: it's delicious. I think it's smooth. It's not too heavy.
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: I was like, oh, mead, but it's not. It is
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: kind of like a light meat now that I think
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: about it. If you ever had mead, which is it'll
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: do the job. Let me tell you what I haven't.
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: I don't even know what meat is.
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: Oh it's it's very strong.
• 9:06
  Speaker 2: Its christ yes, Captain cork screw. She does like them
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: sweet ones, and the reason why is because she is
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: so sweet. She needs that to keep her sweetness level up.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: That's it. Yeah, I don't know what you're buttering me
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: up for but I like it all right? Well, you guys,
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: with that, let's do a quick recap of where we
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: left off in the Aton Pates story, shall we?
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: Yes, so, guys. In our last episode, we covered the
• 9:41
  Speaker 2: disappearance of eight and Pates, who was six years old
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: and vanished on his walk to catch a school bus
• 9:46
  Speaker 2: in New York City. Aton's body has never been found,
• 9:51
  Speaker 2: and for decades this case went unsolved, though it was
• 9:56
  Speaker 2: no secret the main suspect was a man name who's
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: the Ramos, who at the time was in a relationship
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: with Sandy Harmon, who is a caregiver hired by the
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: Pates family. And that little face chest breaks my heart
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: every time I freaking look at.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: It, so so cute. I hate this story so much. Well,
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: after Aton's disappearance, he would go on and spend several
• 10:23
  Speaker 1: decades incarcerated for sexually abusing young voice, even though he
• 10:29
  Speaker 1: seemed like the most likely candidate, and Aton's parents won
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: a two point four million dollars wrongful death lawsuit against him.
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: He was never charged for the kidnapping and murder of
• 10:42
  Speaker 1: Aton Pates. Somehow, that's that's what happened. Now we show you.
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: The difference between criminal and civil.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: Yes, very much.
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: The burden of proof is much lower.
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: That is true. Now, we ended that episode talking about
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: the re opening of Aton's case in twenty ten. What
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: is that forty years ish later? Thirty thirty ish? I
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: have to remember something like that. Anyway, they reopened the
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: case in twenty ten and eventually would lead to the
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: arrest of Pedro Hernandez. So let's start there.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Will and just a reminder, we don't math here at
• 11:25
  Speaker 2: true crime in one time, okay. So during the two
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: thousand and nine Manhattan District Attorney's race, Aton's father, Stampads,
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: had met with different candidates, asking them to reopen the
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: case and bring justice to whoever kidnapped and murdered their
• 11:42
  Speaker 2: son so that they could get closure. Now, Stan and Julie,
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: after all these decades, still lived in their Print Street loft,
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: and they never changed their phone number just in case
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: their little boy called home.
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: Oh guys, that just yeah, that's it breaks my heart too.
• 12:05
  Speaker 3: Now.
• 12:06
  Speaker 1: The winner of that election was Cyrus cy Vance Junior.
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: You captain word to Stan Pates and officially reopened Eaten
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Aton Pates's case on May twenty fifth, twenty ten Vance
• 12:22
  Speaker 1: met multiple times with the patess and the former federal
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: prosecutor Stu Garbois, who we talked about in episode one
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: of the story, who was hell bent on Jose Ramos
• 12:35
  Speaker 1: being the man responsible for Aton's death led the cause.
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but I also want to point out not only
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: was reopening Aton's case a campaign promise, so was the
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: calling for the mandatory videotaping of interrogations in New York
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: to prevent wrongful convictions, which, guys, is very important to
• 12:57
  Speaker 2: keep in.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: Mind, super important, super important.
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: Yes, you are so right. Their life is for ever
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: on hold waiting on that call. I mean, I think
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: of all the people who don't even have home numbers anymore,
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: and they keep it just in case, just in case.
• 13:19
  Speaker 1: Well, with this renewed investigation, the focus was not on
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Jose Ramos. Instead, it was on oath Neil Miller. Now,
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: he was a carpenter with a basement workshop located between
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: the Pates's apartment and the school bus stop, and he
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: had done work in the Piates home. Interestingly enough, his
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: workshop floor had been reconcreted around the time of Aton's disappearance.
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: What h Miller himself and his workshop had never really
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: been significantly investigated. One reason investigators from the time recall
• 14:00
  Speaker 1: was that Julie Pates described him as a family friend. Okay,
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: and you see that little stairwell there where that bikers
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: parked down there, there was his workshop. I think for sure.
• 14:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, I do want to say, guys, we have
• 14:17
  Speaker 2: to remember when this was okay, So no judgment on
• 14:22
  Speaker 2: the family or anything, because back then we trusted our neighbors,
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: we trusted family friends. It wasn't until later that people
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: started realizing that sometimes the evil is right there. Now. Yeah,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: as to say, we're finding most of the time right
• 14:42
  Speaker 2: with him being a family friend. He was also a
• 14:45
  Speaker 2: familiar person to Aton. The night before Aton disappeared, Miller
• 14:50
  Speaker 2: spent approximately forty five minutes alone with Aton in the
• 14:54
  Speaker 2: basement workshop. He later told the FBI that he had
• 14:58
  Speaker 2: been changing out of his work clob when he gave
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: a dollar to Aton in exchange for helping him with
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: the carpentry. He also admitted to having sexual intercourse with
• 15:09
  Speaker 2: a girl who was approximately ten years old in nineteen
• 15:12
  Speaker 2: seventy nine. Sure, okay, if that's not enough red flags
• 15:17
  Speaker 2: for you, guess what, who's a romos? Not only frequented
• 15:22
  Speaker 2: Miller's workshop and did odd jobs for him. He had
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: a freaking key to that basement as well.
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: Uh huh Yeah.
• 15:32
  Speaker 2: Can I just say there are so many people in
• 15:37
  Speaker 2: this story, in this case that are perverts, Yeah, I
• 15:44
  Speaker 2: mean all in one little area. Yeah.
• 15:49
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's that's part of the reason why this also
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: makes me fired up. But we'll we'll get there, we will.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: It definitely gets there now. On April nineteenth, twenty twelve,
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: the FBI brought a scent dog to Miller's basement at
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: one to seven B Prince Street, near the Pates's home.
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: The dog was trained to detect the odor of human decomposition,
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: even after many years. The scent dog indicated by barking
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: that he detected the scent of human decomposition in two
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: areas of Miller's basement. The next day, Miller was brought
• 16:28
  Speaker 1: to the basement and told that the dog had alerted
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: to the scent, to which he replied, what if the
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: body was moved? Ib eaten?
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: Not even when it finds that question? Odd? Who asked
• 16:41
  Speaker 2: that question?
• 16:42
  Speaker 1: Right? Right?
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: I mean, who asked that question now? Also, because this
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: was down in twenty twelve, what if it was an
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: Aton's body. What if it was someone else's I thought
• 16:55
  Speaker 2: the same thing. Okay, yeah, Now for several days, authority
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: stop traffic in Lower Manhattan, and I'm going to tell you,
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: Lower Manhattan, I bet you was pissed. Just gonna say it,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: because if you've ever been to Manhattan, you do not
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: need traffic being stopped. Now, Miller's former workshop was excavated.
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: Despite the scent dog's positive identification, investigators announced that there
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: was nothing conclusive found and off nil Oathnel Miller was
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: never charged in connection with Aton Pates's disappearance. Oath Now
• 17:33
  Speaker 2: Miller died January twenty fifth, twenty twenty, at the age
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: of eighty three.
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I just do not feel like they investigated
• 17:42
  Speaker 1: him nearly enough at all to just be like, nope,
• 17:46
  Speaker 1: it's fine, we're done here.
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: I like I said, what if it was another You
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: do not get dcomp smell unless there was dcomp there.
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: Something happened.
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, so that passes me off. Now. The excavation
• 18:06
  Speaker 1: at one twenty seven B Prince Street had drawn an
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: extensive amount of media attention for good reason. This is
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: a huge, high profile case here we have going on now,
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: after seeing the press coverage. A man named Jose Lopez,
• 18:24
  Speaker 1: who lived in New Jersey, reached out to investigators because
• 18:27
  Speaker 1: of rumors that his brother in law, Pedro Hernandez, was
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: involved in the disappearance of Aton Pates. There's a lot
• 18:36
  Speaker 1: of people with the same name in this too, like
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: many of our cases.
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Now, I just want to remind you, especially because I
• 18:42
  Speaker 2: do Mid Day Missing, that it is tips that help
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: solve cases, even many years later, even if it's just
• 18:50
  Speaker 2: a rumor, even if you're not sure, call in the tip.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: So I mean, I say, good job for calling in
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: about your brother in law. Just don't do it if
• 19:00
  Speaker 2: you're mad at somebody and trying to get them in trouble.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: Okay.
• 19:04
  Speaker 2: Now, just a few days later, almost two years of
• 19:08
  Speaker 2: the day, Aton's case had been reopened. On May twenty four,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: twenty twelve, New York Police Commissioner Raymond Kelly announced that
• 19:17
  Speaker 2: a man was in custody who had implicated himself in
• 19:21
  Speaker 2: Aton's disappearance. Okay, guys. A law enforcement official identified the
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: man as fifty one year old Pedro Hernandez, a disabled
• 19:32
  Speaker 2: former construction worker of Maple Shade, New Jersey, and said
• 19:37
  Speaker 2: that he had confessed Wow okay, getting ready for the rants.
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: I just kind of fell into their their lap like that.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. Okay. Well, now, up until this point,
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: nearly thirty years since Aton's disappearance, Pedro's life was quiet
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: and arrest free. It's important. Pedro was one of twelve
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: children born into Puerto Rican to a Puerto Rican immigrant
• 20:07
  Speaker 1: family who moved to the United States in the early seventies.
• 20:11
  Speaker 1: He grew up in New Jersey attended Woodrow Wilson High School,
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: but he did not end up graduating.
• 20:18
  Speaker 2: Now guys, in nineteen seventy nine, Pedro Hernandez was eighteen
• 20:21
  Speaker 2: years old, living in New York City and working at
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: a little neighborhood bodega right beside a Ton's Best Stop.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: Now Pedro was interviewed in nineteen seventy nine along with
• 20:33
  Speaker 2: other employees at the bodega, which had also been thoroughly searched.
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: That he was never identified or treated as a person
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: of interest or a suspect.
• 20:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and he's eighteen years old, so anyway. He ended
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: up leaving New York City and returned back to New
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: Jersey and found work doing construction in nineteen ninety three,
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: though during his career he got injured and was in
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: and out of medical facilities for years because of that.
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: He was also very religious, always sitting in the second
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: row at church and attending prayer groups regularly.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: Now, Pedro got married to Daisy Rivera, and I'm not
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: sure if that's her maiden name or she got remarried,
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: but they had two children together. Now, their relationship was
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: rather volatile, and at one point she had obtained a
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: protective order against him.
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, she says, quote. I divorced him because he was
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: too possessive, too violent, disrespectful. Rivera said during a series
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: of interviews with Pro Public of it to him, everybody
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: as a whore, everybody's I don't think I could say
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: that word on YouTube. Slander or what's a slur for
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: a gay man? Everybody's a lesbian. He was so judgmental.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: I think he had a mental problem, but I just
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: dealt with it because I thought it was normal. You
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: never beat me like with a bloody nose in black eyes.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: She said. He was more verbally abusive.
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, mimes are like clowns. They are just as bad. Okay,
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: just saying mimes. Yeah. No. Now, after their marriage ended,
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: Daisy was constantly taking him to court over him not
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: paying child support. Now, guys, Pedro doesn't sound great, But
• 22:31
  Speaker 2: let me tell you, Daisy was a little spicy too, Okay.
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: When Pedro remarried in nineteen eighty eight to a woman
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: named Rosemary, who would still be his wife at the
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: time of his arrest, Daisy showed up uninvited to the
• 22:47
  Speaker 2: wedding as a reminder to Pedro about his responsibilities to
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: their children. Yeah, and Daisy, ma'am, this is not a
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: good look for you. And I'm gonna say it's not
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: the role model you want to be for your kids
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: in my opinion.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, that's not great.
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: That's all creepy.
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and very selfish, I think. I mean, come on, anyway,
• 23:13
  Speaker 1: Pedro and Rosemary would go on to have a daughter together, Becky,
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: who was twenty three at the time of his twenty
• 23:20
  Speaker 1: twelve arrest. Rosemary would later tell a psychiatric expert hired
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: by the defense about her and Pedro's relationship over the
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: last twenty five plus years. Pedro did abuse cocaine in
• 23:33
  Speaker 1: the late eighties and early nineties, and this led to
• 23:36
  Speaker 1: psychological and sometimes physical abuse by Pedro. I mean it
• 23:42
  Speaker 1: usually does it usually does.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: And I'm going to say a lot of people during
• 23:47
  Speaker 2: that time were using cocaine.
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: I mean, it was the eighties, it was so.
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: She said every time Pedro would grow frustrated or angry,
• 23:57
  Speaker 2: he would hit me in the head. She also talked
• 23:59
  Speaker 2: about how one time he punched her and wrapped a
• 24:02
  Speaker 2: vacuum cord around her neck. Oh, Pedro. There was also
• 24:07
  Speaker 2: a time in two thousand and three where they when
• 24:09
  Speaker 2: they were in the car together and Pedro purposely tried
• 24:13
  Speaker 2: to wreck the car, telling Rosemary, I'm going to kill
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: us all I hate my life.
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, kind of befed up. Yeah. Well. Rosemary also told
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: the psychiatric expert that after Pedro stopped doing cocaine, their
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: relationship improved significantly, which go figure, that makes sense. Her
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: attorney told the public that she continues to support him
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: a thousand percent and believes that it is ridiculous to
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: have charged her husband with the murder.
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: Now. While Pedro had done many bad things, Rosemary did
• 24:54
  Speaker 2: not think he was a child killer. As a matter
• 24:57
  Speaker 2: of fact, Rosemary helped the defench as much as she could,
• 25:01
  Speaker 2: including appearing at several hearings in the case.
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: Yeah, even Pedro's ex wife Daisy insisted repeatedly to Pro
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: Publica that Pedro never talked about hurting a child when
• 25:16
  Speaker 1: they were together. Quote if he said, listen, Daisy, I
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: have a confession to make. I killed a six year
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: old child. I have it in my heart that I
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have gone forward with the marriage. She said, I
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: wouldn't have proceeded with the marriage. Why would you hurt
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: a six year old child. Now, these statements Daisy made
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: to Pro Publica were made before Pedro's first trial, which
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: again I think is important to note.
• 25:44
  Speaker 2: So now, in a felling from the state regarding bail,
• 25:49
  Speaker 2: the prosecution makes a claim about possible sexual abuse towards
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: a family member when he was a child. They do
• 25:57
  Speaker 2: not go into any further details other and a footnote
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: that says that Pedro admits the behavior and that a
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: family member and neighbor confirmed it, but the alleged victim
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: denies it. I mean, sounds kind of thin. Pedro's attorney,
• 26:15
  Speaker 2: Harvey Fishbeine fin so that Pedro had told him that
• 26:19
  Speaker 2: the allegations arose from his childhood when he and relatives
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: were sleeping in the same room.
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it doesn't really sound like Uh, the other guys situation. Yeah, no,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: you know, and there's nothing confirming it, So you're upsessed
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: with the way.
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: Terry says further, I'm glad I can entertain.
• 26:45
  Speaker 1: I love that. I love it too. Now, Pedro did
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: have an extensive history of mental illness and a low IQ,
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: all of which doctors documented. Before nineteen seventy nine, doctors
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: said that he had obsessive thoughts, hallucinations, and borderline impaired intelligence.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: Doctors had diagnosed him with a myriad of disorders, including
• 27:14
  Speaker 1: psychotic disorder, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, chronic mental illness, and memory impairment. Then,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: between nineteen ninety two and twenty fourteen, various intelligent tests
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: placed Pedro's IQ between sixty seven and seventy six, meaning
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: that Pedro was functioning at the lowest level of intelligence
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: compared to other people. Which let's make a note of
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: that for later.
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: And I said in the chat, maybe he used the
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: dreads and the cocaine to self medicate.
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: Oh for sure, I mean that's very common. For sure,
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: it didn't.
• 27:55
  Speaker 2: Help, didn't help.
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: That's what you're suffering from, going to make things worse. Yeah,
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: but for sure.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Now, in the decades that followed his nineteen seventy
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: nine interview with police, Pedro allegedly told multiple people, including
• 28:11
  Speaker 2: various church members at a religious retreat, his neighbor Mark Pike,
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: and his first wife, Daisy, that he had killed someone
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: in New York City, but none of them ran to
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: the police. I just need to throw that in there.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: We'll get more into that later, But either Mark Pike
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: or Daisy rare Vieira gave any credit to Pedro's statements
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: that they made to them. And again, none of these
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: people he supposedly shared this information with reported them to police.
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: So these would have been statements from thirty freaking years ago. Yeah.
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: Now, Based on the tip from Pedro's brother in law,
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: investigators executed a self described tactical plan to interrogate Pedro.
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: On May twenty, twenty twelve, at seven forty five, four
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: or five police cars pulled up outside of Pedro's home
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: in New Jersey, where he was living with his second wife.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Yeah. NYPD detectives Jose Morales and David Ramirez identified themselves
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: to Pedro as from the NYPD Missing person squad and
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: told him that his name came up in an old
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: case and that they wanted to speak to him about it.
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: Pedro agreed and accompanied them to Camden County Police Department.
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: I don't ever do that.
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: I'm like, don't ever do that. But before Pedro got
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: into one of the police cars, the police patted him down,
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: asked him to empty his pockets and place his possessions
• 29:45
  Speaker 2: in a box in the trunk of the car. Now,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: he asked the police if it would be a long
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: time because he needed to take medication at noon, and
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: a detective was sent to his house to pick up medication. Oh, said,
• 29:59
  Speaker 2: that's so so Weed.
• 30:01
  Speaker 1: I'm surprised they did that.
• 30:02
  Speaker 2: To be quite honest with you, I mean, I kind
• 30:05
  Speaker 2: of am too. But furthermore, we don't know.
• 30:09
  Speaker 1: Now, I want to stop right here and say that.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: In New Jersey, where Pedro was initially being questioned, taping
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: interrogations in homicide cases has been required by law since
• 30:23
  Speaker 1: two thousand and five. This was because of the growing
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: movement supported by experts and numerous others in the legal
• 30:30
  Speaker 1: field who believe that fully videotaping and interrogation from the
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: minute a suspect enters the room to the minute they
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: leave was the single most important factor in preventing false
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: confessions that lead to wrongful convictions, just putting it out
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: there in New Jersey.
• 30:51
  Speaker 2: Into legal Now Pedro is about to be interrogated by
• 30:57
  Speaker 2: New York detectives and eightya and it would be argued
• 31:00
  Speaker 2: in court later that the law doesn't technically apply to
• 31:04
  Speaker 2: them since it's not their jurisdiction. But guys, I still
• 31:08
  Speaker 2: find it shady as hell when the whole room is
• 31:11
  Speaker 2: decked out or ready to go. I mean, especially in
• 31:14
  Speaker 2: a case like this.
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: Agreed, agreed, Yeah.
• 31:21
  Speaker 2: Now, the interrogation began at about eight ten am. Now
• 31:26
  Speaker 2: why the detectives questioned Pedro about his upbringing. Other officers
• 31:31
  Speaker 2: purposely walked people from Pedro's past within his view to
• 31:36
  Speaker 2: frighten him. And it was two hours before the detectives
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: brought up a ton paates.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: Guys.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: I know, please use all kinds of tactics when interviewing people,
• 31:47
  Speaker 2: but I'm sorry, I don't think you should be able
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: to walk people by because you don't know if one
• 31:54
  Speaker 2: of them is triggering. If I just.
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: Don't like it, I just don't hoping it was triggering,
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: that's all you're hoping it was. Now, Manhattan Assistant District
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: Attorney Armand Durisstanti arrived around ten thirty am, observing the
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: interrogation via a CCTV monitor. Darra Santi asked an investigator
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: if the interrogation was being video recorded. The investigator replied
• 32:24
  Speaker 1: that it was not, and asked Duris Stanti, sorry, I
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: cannot say his last name. I apologize, but if he
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: wanted the recording device in the room turned on Daras
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: Stanti responded by saying, why don't we just wait to
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: see what happens? Okay, Okay, that makes sense.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: Bullshit. I'm sorry, this is bullshit. If you had the
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: ability to record, should damn well record? And you're selling
• 32:55
  Speaker 2: New Jersey turf and it's the law.
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and you're the Manhattan Assistic Assistant District Surney. Okay, okay.
• 33:08
  Speaker 2: Now. Around noon, detective Morales brought in Pedro's medication after
• 33:13
  Speaker 2: he placed a fentanyl patch on his chest and took
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: some pills. He explained to the detectives why he was
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: taking medication. He discussed it had been diagnosed with and
• 33:23
  Speaker 2: treated in the past for schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, and other
• 33:29
  Speaker 2: mental illnesses. Now, guys, I have to say I have
• 33:32
  Speaker 2: a little confused about the ventyl patch. I know he'd
• 33:35
  Speaker 2: been injured, but the only time I've ever had a
• 33:37
  Speaker 2: fentyl patch was after cancer surgery, and it is for pain.
• 33:43
  Speaker 2: So why would he be prescribed this because it doesn't
• 33:47
  Speaker 2: just last a couple of hours, it lasts several days.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: And why the fudge sickles would you question someone while
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: under the influence of fentanyl?
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: Agreed?
• 34:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, guys, I was just taking pain meds after
• 34:04
  Speaker 2: my surgery just several weeks ago. There were times you
• 34:07
  Speaker 2: could have gotten me to confess to anything. I don't remember.
• 34:10
  Speaker 2: A couple of days I would have probably confessed to
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: killing JFK.
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. The fact that they go on to question him,
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: watching him put the patcheck, like, come.
• 34:21
  Speaker 2: On, and he tells you he's schizophrenic, he's bipolar. No, yeah.
• 34:28
  Speaker 1: Now, At around one pm, Pedro said that he had
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: told the detective everything that he wanted to go home.
• 34:37
  Speaker 1: The detectives responded by leaving and sending an NYPD detective
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: James Lamondola, who focused on Pedro's childhood and cyclical patterns
• 34:47
  Speaker 1: of abuse. Pedro began to sob complained of stomach pains,
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: and eventually laid on the floor in the fetal position
• 34:55
  Speaker 1: and started to shake again. He asked to go home.
• 35:01
  Speaker 2: I mean, guys, excuse me. If he has to go
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: home and he's not under rest, I thought you had
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: to fucking let him leave.
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's why you don't get in the cop
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: car with cops unless you're under arrest. All right, you
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: drive yourself to the police station. Say if they say no,
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: you can't, then guess what, They're probably gonna try to
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: arrest you.
• 35:22
  Speaker 2: So soon Pedro became angry and accuse Lemondola of trying
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: to trick him. As Pedro cried, Lemondola continue to tell
• 35:33
  Speaker 2: him that everybody needed to know the truth and that
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: the truth had to come out. Now, I don't like
• 35:40
  Speaker 2: this guy.
• 35:41
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I don't like any of these guys. Guy.
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: We do like on Top X for the supersticker. We
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: love on Top X, don't ye. Thank you for the
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: supersticker on Top and your support. You're amazing and and
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: I don't know who the mean mommy is, but we're
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: all the good one. Why didn't his office call a lawyer?
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: Oh we're yeah, we'll get we'll get there. We'll get there. Yeah,
• 36:10
  Speaker 1: so at around two pm? No, wait, is that where
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: we are yeah, okay. At around two pm, detectives Morales
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: and Ramirez returned, joining Lamondola in the interrogation room. They
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: continued asking him if he had anything to tell them
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: about what happened in nineteen seventy nine. Pedro asked them
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: if they were trying to pin what happened to that
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: kid on.
• 36:36
  Speaker 2: Him, guys. Pedro then repeated for a third time that
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: he wanted to go home. The detectives told him, Hey,
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: we have a few more questions to ask you, and
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: then after that he could leave. Pedro then asked to
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: speak Tolla's wife, to which Detective Ramirez replied that they
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: wanted to hear what he had to say first.
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah. At that point, after more than six hours of interrogation,
• 37:07
  Speaker 1: Pedro Hernandez told the detectives for the first time that
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: he did it. According to Detective Lamondola, Pedro said that
• 37:16
  Speaker 1: he had seen Aton Pate standing outside the bodega and
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: asked him if he wanted a soda, that Pate said
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: yes and accompanied him into the basement of the bodega.
• 37:28
  Speaker 1: That Pedro choked him and put his body in a
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: garbage bag, and that he placed the bag in a
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: box and left it in a trash area around the
• 37:38
  Speaker 1: corner from the bodega. Hernandez could not explain his motive,
• 37:43
  Speaker 1: but he denied it was sexual.
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: Guys, I just want to point out about this timeframe
• 37:50
  Speaker 2: that Fentol patches kicked in. Okay, just want to point
• 37:54
  Speaker 2: that out now. Immediately after obtaining Pedro's confession, I have
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: read him a six question miranda warning. You know that
• 38:04
  Speaker 2: thing that you're supposed to advise on when you first
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: get there, not after at this point eighty eight or
• 38:12
  Speaker 2: sisturist dunty, I don't know. I don't like you. I
• 38:16
  Speaker 2: think you're prick. So who was still observing from another room,
• 38:19
  Speaker 2: requested that the video feed be recorded. Guys, this is
• 38:25
  Speaker 2: sketchy at shit. You read the miranda warning at the beginning, Okay,
• 38:32
  Speaker 2: And guys, just reminder if any police want to question you,
• 38:36
  Speaker 2: ask for an attorney, even if you're not guilty, because
• 38:39
  Speaker 2: we see way too often how sketchy some law enforcement
• 38:43
  Speaker 2: are in agencies. Now just think of the Commonwealth and Proctor.
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: If you want a recent reminder of shit that law
• 38:53
  Speaker 2: enforcement likes to pull.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: M this one's a good old reminder too, because this
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: wasn't too long ago, kids.
• 38:59
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: So they've been tit talking since about eight ten am,
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: and their recording begins at two fifty three pm with
• 39:09
  Speaker 1: Detective Ramirez asking Pedro the final miranda question. Now that
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: I've advised you of your rights, are you willing to
• 39:18
  Speaker 1: answer questions? After Detective Morales interjected with obviously, yeah, is
• 39:24
  Speaker 1: that right, Pedro responded yes.
• 39:29
  Speaker 2: Guys, let's stop and think we know where his IQ
• 39:33
  Speaker 2: level is. This man had no clue what the hell
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: was going on.
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: I don't think so.
• 39:44
  Speaker 2: In my opinion.
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: Detective le Mondola then asked Pedro to repeat the statement
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: he had given before being mirandized, instructing him to start
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: from the beginning and tell us again exactly what you
• 39:58
  Speaker 2: just told us about what.
• 40:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's funny how that happens. Huh. When Pedro did
• 40:04
  Speaker 1: not immediately reply, the detectives began to prompt him. Pedro
• 40:08
  Speaker 1: then provided an account almost identical to what he told
• 40:12
  Speaker 1: the detectives before receiving his miranda warnings.
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: Now, the detectives once again presented Pedro with Aton paids
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: missing person's poster and asked, is this the guy? When
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: Pedro said that it was the detectives handed him a
• 40:29
  Speaker 2: pin and asked him to write a confession on the poster.
• 40:36
  Speaker 2: Pedro asked the detective how to spell choke before writing
• 40:40
  Speaker 2: on the poster, I am sorry I choke him and
• 40:45
  Speaker 2: signed his name.
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: This visses me off because this was for pr uh huh.
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: That's all this was for, was for pr or rest
• 40:56
  Speaker 1: propaganda for the courtroom. To put it right now there
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: like this. This is the kind of bullshit that pisses
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: me off. Yeah. Right, and again, this man, I forget
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: how old they said, he went fifty one?
• 41:08
  Speaker 2: Yeah, is that what they said?
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: He doesn't know how to sell the word choke.
• 41:12
  Speaker 2: Guys, that tells you. I mean Scorpion three says. Back then,
• 41:17
  Speaker 2: a lot of New York City was on the take.
• 41:20
  Speaker 2: This changed all of New York City kids. I remember
• 41:24
  Speaker 2: the movie Big they did a milk carton in all
• 41:27
  Speaker 2: the New York City mom's went nuts.
• 41:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 41:30
  Speaker 2: I mean they were not doing this for justice. They
• 41:35
  Speaker 2: were not, in my opinion, and I have goosebumps and
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: I hate it. I just hate all of it.
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: Well, at around at four pm that day, detectives finally
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: allowed Pedro to call his wife, Rosemary and his daughter Becky.
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: He told them that quote a long time ago, he
• 41:56
  Speaker 1: killed a child, a boy, and that he did not
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: know why he did it, and that he would be
• 42:02
  Speaker 1: in jail for the rest of his life.
• 42:07
  Speaker 2: The detectives then drove Pedro from the New Jersey Precinct
• 42:10
  Speaker 2: to Soho. At around ten pm. They arrived at the
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: corner where the bodega was located in nineteen seventy nine.
• 42:17
  Speaker 2: Pedro pointed out where he had first seen a ton
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: paid and identified two different street addresses where he might
• 42:25
  Speaker 2: have left the box containing the garbage bag.
• 42:29
  Speaker 1: Shortly after, at about eleven PM, the detectives then drove
• 42:34
  Speaker 1: Pedro to the Manhattan DA's office. And he's still not
• 42:39
  Speaker 1: arrested yet, I don't think No. For the next three hours,
• 42:43
  Speaker 1: Pedro intermittently slept on the couch and ate in the
• 42:47
  Speaker 1: presence of police officers. Yeah.
• 42:53
  Speaker 2: Now, At around two am, Pedro was taken to an
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: interview room where he was interrogated by eighty A. Durisdanti
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: off and on until a little after seven am. Now
• 43:05
  Speaker 2: Durisdanti did advise him of his Miranda rights and then
• 43:08
  Speaker 2: told Pedro Pedro, sorry, I know that you spoke to
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: detectives yesterday. I want you to understand that the statement
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: you're making here to me today has nothing at all
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: to do with that statement. I want you and I
• 43:23
  Speaker 2: to start brand new. Okay, guys, I need to remind
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: you he still has on that fentnel match that works
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: for several days. And once again, how is this okay?
• 43:34
  Speaker 2: This Ada should know better? M H.
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: I agree. Pedro once again stated that he killed Aton,
• 43:42
  Speaker 1: although certain details deviated from his prior confessions from earlier.
• 43:48
  Speaker 1: He also made several additional statements that were inconsistent with
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: one another. For example, although Pedro had told the detectives
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: that he could not remember what Aton was wearing, he
• 44:00
  Speaker 1: told Dorastante that Aton had a jacket that was black
• 44:04
  Speaker 1: or blue.
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: Now, near the end of the interrogation, Doristante asked him
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: about his mental health. Pedro explained that his family had
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: a history of mental illness and that he was bipolar
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: and schizophrenic. He then told Dourrostante a detailed account of
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: seeing and talking to a vision of his dead mother's ghost.
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: He said, however, that he was unsure if this actually
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: happened or if it was his imagination.
• 44:36
  Speaker 1: Yeah. At the very end of the interrogation, Pedro asked
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: him about his right to counsel. That led to the
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: following exchange that Terry and I are going to role play.
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: I am going to be Hernandez and you are going
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: to be Dorisante. Okay a yes, all right, Now, can
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: I ask you a question? Now? I know you read
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: my rights. Now, when you read my rights, you said
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: that if I need an attorney. Does that mean when
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: I was talking to you that if I didn't want
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: to answer you, yes, Oh that's what it meant.
• 45:19
  Speaker 2: Yes, Oh that if you know, if you need you
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: can have an attorney. If you want an attorney.
• 45:27
  Speaker 1: I would like to have an attorney to represent me,
• 45:30
  Speaker 1: you know, when if I were to go to court.
• 45:35
  Speaker 2: Okay, right, if you were to go to court, yeah,
• 45:39
  Speaker 2: I want that.
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: Right.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: No, you will have an attorney to represent you if
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: you go to court.
• 45:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: But the question, the question that I was asking was
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: whether you wanted one now.
• 45:54
  Speaker 1: When I was talking to you, yeah, no, because I
• 45:58
  Speaker 1: don't have nothing to hide no more at this the
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: whole well, yeah, you'll have one of court shame.
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: That is deceitful, and I just yeah, so at this point,
• 46:19
  Speaker 2: at this point, guys, approximately twenty four hours had a
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: lapse since the investigators first arrived at Pedro Hernandez's house.
• 46:30
  Speaker 2: Okay now, Pedro was immediately arrested. Following his arrest, Pedro
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: was taken to Bellevue Hospital for psychiatric treatment.
• 46:41
  Speaker 1: After a month later, in June twenty twelve, Pedro was
• 46:45
  Speaker 1: transferred to Rikers Island and was evaluated by doctor Flavia Roboti,
• 46:51
  Speaker 1: who does not have a good Google review. By the way,
• 46:56
  Speaker 1: Pedro told it doctor Rabadi that he had her child
• 47:00
  Speaker 1: and that he had confessed this to his first wife, Daisy.
• 47:05
  Speaker 2: He also told her that at the time of Aton's disappearance,
• 47:09
  Speaker 2: he had command hallucinations telling him exactly what to do
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: and started hearing other voices talking amongst themselves.
• 47:19
  Speaker 1: Now.
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: Doctor Robodi's assessment was that Pedro needed intensive psychiatric treatment,
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: and she referred him to the Mental Observation Ward at
• 47:28
  Speaker 2: Riker's Guys, this fucking nightmare. I'm just thinking you're not
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: getting a lot of help. Pedro was then evaluated by
• 47:38
  Speaker 2: doctor Michael First, who diagnosed him with schizotypical personality disorder.
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: Doctor First testified that the disorder was marked by an
• 47:48
  Speaker 2: inability to differentiate between what is going on in your
• 47:52
  Speaker 2: mind versus what is occurring in the external world, because
• 47:58
  Speaker 2: I know when I want to confession by somebody, I
• 48:02
  Speaker 2: want them to not be able to know the difference
• 48:04
  Speaker 2: between two.
• 48:06
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 48:07
  Speaker 2: Now. During a multi day evaluation, Pedro stated several times
• 48:11
  Speaker 2: that he approached a little boy outside of the bodega,
• 48:15
  Speaker 2: lured him into the basement, and choked him. He insists
• 48:19
  Speaker 2: that there were other people in the basement with him,
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: including older, gray haired people wearing nightgowns like a nursing home.
• 48:30
  Speaker 1: Guys, it's been a little little crazy kelly. As time
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: passed after his arrest, Pedro began to express doubts about
• 48:43
  Speaker 1: whether the events he had confessed to had actually occurred.
• 48:48
  Speaker 1: Doctor First testified that changes in Pedro's confessions, along with
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: his varying degrees of doubt, were the results of a
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: weakening in his delusional conviction. All right, because he's trying.
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: He's starting to being a little lucid, and he's like,
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: wait a second.
• 49:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And one thing I wish we knew, and I
• 49:09
  Speaker 2: tried to do a little side research. Were they giving
• 49:12
  Speaker 2: him antipsychotic meds.
• 49:15
  Speaker 1: He was on anti psychotic meds when he was arrested.
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, I know, but were they changing them once they
• 49:20
  Speaker 2: evaluated him, Probably started doing something to probably.
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 49:25
  Speaker 2: Now, according to doctor First, Pedro's delusional conviction was particularly
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: strong after his arrest in May twenty twelve, such that
• 49:34
  Speaker 2: he then completely believed his statements were true. However, within
• 49:39
  Speaker 2: a few months, his confidence in those memories had notably diminished.
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: Yeah, while Pedro was in jail, his attorney, Harvey Fishbein,
• 49:51
  Speaker 1: was doing everything he could to get his confession thrown out. Hell,
• 49:55
  Speaker 1: Pedro hadn't even been indicted.
• 49:58
  Speaker 2: Yet, which just makes my head sped.
• 50:04
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, haven't even been indicted.
• 50:07
  Speaker 2: So you see, prosecutors made a highly unusual agreement with
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: Fishban They agreed to hold off on going to the
• 50:15
  Speaker 2: grand jury to give both sides more time to investigate,
• 50:20
  Speaker 2: and according to court records, the two sides were in
• 50:23
  Speaker 2: frequent contact with one another for the next six months.
• 50:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah. If that's not showing a rush the judgment, I
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: don't know what is, because I've never heard of a thing.
• 50:37
  Speaker 2: Arrest and ask questions later and then we'll go to
• 50:40
  Speaker 2: the grand jury.
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: Yes, that's exactly the game that they're playing now. Fish
• 50:46
  Speaker 1: Bean would share all of Pedro's medical history with the prosecution,
• 50:51
  Speaker 1: as well as all the reports from their psychiatric experts
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: who examined him and his alleged confession.
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: So I just have to say, Scorpion three, I am
• 51:03
  Speaker 2: glad that you and your brothers and Scissors all survived
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: because you're right, son of Sam Slasher. New York City
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: was crazy in the seventies. It was crazy in the seventies,
• 51:18
  Speaker 2: went wild time man now. Fishbeing even made a fancy
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: formal presentation to DA sy Vance's office that fall, going
• 51:29
  Speaker 2: over everything as to why Pedro shouldn't be charged. As
• 51:33
  Speaker 2: a matter of fact, someone who knew about the meeting,
• 51:37
  Speaker 2: said fish Being came out of it confident that he
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: had persuaded the prosecutors to use their discretion and abandon
• 51:46
  Speaker 2: the case. But Fishbeing never heard back from the DA's
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: office and starting for the chopping sound guys instead.
• 51:57
  Speaker 1: On November fourteenth, a New York grand jury indicted Pedro
• 52:03
  Speaker 1: Hernandez on charges of two counts of second degree murder
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: and one count of first degree kidnapping. I can't even
• 52:12
  Speaker 1: believe it at this point, but okay, quote, this indictment
• 52:17
  Speaker 1: is the outcome of a lengthy and deliberative process involving
• 52:23
  Speaker 1: months of factual investigation and legal analysis. Eric Dugan, a
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: spokesman for Vance, said in announcing the indictment, let me dogson.
• 52:37
  Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but h Eron Dugan. I know you're just
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: doing your job and you're reading what you were told
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: to read. But all of that is lies in my opinion,
• 52:48
  Speaker 2: So we believe the evidence that mister Hernandez killed Aton
• 52:53
  Speaker 2: Pates to be credible and persuasive, and that his statements
• 52:58
  Speaker 2: are not the product of any mental illness. The grand
• 53:01
  Speaker 2: jury has found sufficient evidence to charge the defendant, and
• 53:05
  Speaker 2: this is a case that we believe should be presented
• 53:09
  Speaker 2: to a jury at trial. Excuse the hell out of me, Okay, sure,
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: I mean did you get your medical degree? Are you
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: a psychiatrist? Because for you to make that statement that
• 53:26
  Speaker 2: is not a product of any mental illness bothers me,
• 53:32
  Speaker 2: like Kelly b Yeah, just bothers me. Well, how much
• 53:36
  Speaker 2: thinner he's getting. I don't know if you've noticed in
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: the progression of the pictures.
• 53:40
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, when he was indicted. He was indicted in
• 53:44
  Speaker 1: twenty twelve. Yeah, we should have known that in seventy nine.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: We should Yeah, at this point, you know, I'll give
• 53:52
  Speaker 1: the nineteen seventy nine I will tase some grace, I suppose,
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: but this is not okay. You know better, you know better?
• 54:05
  Speaker 1: Where were we? Okay? So Fishbean had said in a
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: court document filed a month later. Quote In the six
• 54:12
  Speaker 1: months since mister Hernande's arrest, the NYPD and the New
• 54:17
  Speaker 1: York County District Attorney's Office have conducted an intensive investigation
• 54:22
  Speaker 1: attempting to collaborate mister Hernande's statements. However, I am told
• 54:27
  Speaker 1: by the District Attorney's Office that they have found nothing.
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: And my thought is when mister Pates went and talked
• 54:42
  Speaker 2: to the DA, you know, when they were going to
• 54:45
  Speaker 2: get elected and all that, they saw this as an
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: easy way to say I fulfilled my campaign promise, We
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: reopened the case, and look we caught the guy.
• 54:56
  Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: So now Fishbein has said any such attempt will only
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: cause more pain and disappointment for the Pates family and
• 55:07
  Speaker 2: the city that was consumed with their tragedy. The really
• 55:12
  Speaker 2: sad part of this case, Fishbein said, is that it
• 55:15
  Speaker 2: will take time, it will take money, and it will
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: not tell the city what happened to Aton Pates.
• 55:22
  Speaker 1: And he wasn't wrong. Pedro would continue undergoing psychiatric psychiatric
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: exams by experts on both sides. He met again with
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: doctor First in December twenty fourteen. He's been in prison
• 55:38
  Speaker 1: or jail now for over two years, when within the
• 55:41
  Speaker 1: same day he stated both that the people in the basement,
• 55:45
  Speaker 1: including some kids and some business people, some dressed up
• 55:49
  Speaker 1: in hospital clothing, elephant colors, clowns, terry cloth type people
• 55:57
  Speaker 1: all over the place.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: Yeah, because I don't know what eleph colors are, and
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: I'm an elephant girl, so I don't know. But I'm
• 56:05
  Speaker 2: going to tell you that basement is creepyer shit. I
• 56:10
  Speaker 2: don't like basements. It's nothing like what we saw in Ohio.
• 56:13
  Speaker 2: That basement was cool. This kind of creeps me out.
• 56:17
  Speaker 1: Sad. Yeah, I think I thank you. Yeah.
• 56:21
  Speaker 2: Now. In twenty fourteen, while detained at Riker's, Pedro provided
• 56:25
  Speaker 2: similar conflicting statements to doctor Michael Welner. Pedro stated that
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: he had not seen the face of the child he choked,
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: but that he nevertheless recognized his photograph on the news.
• 56:39
  Speaker 1: All Right, we have a confession clip.
• 56:42
  Speaker 3: I went down to the basement. He followed me into
• 56:44
  Speaker 3: the basement, and whatever happened. There is choking. It was
• 56:53
  Speaker 3: something that just happened, like quick. I don't know why
• 56:58
  Speaker 3: I did it.
• 56:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know how you have Does you talk about it?
• 57:05
  Speaker 1: Are you surprised?
• 57:09
  Speaker 3: I don't even know if he happened.
• 57:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's the end of that. There yet
• 57:18
  Speaker 1: said he doesn't even know if it happens again. A
• 57:22
  Speaker 1: man whose reality he doesn't know what is real and
• 57:27
  Speaker 1: what's not real the majority of the time. But according
• 57:32
  Speaker 1: to the state, there's nothing wrong with him. He's fine, guys,
• 57:35
  Speaker 1: he's fine. He's fine. All right. Let's get into my
• 57:40
  Speaker 1: favorite part here, the problems with Pedro's confession. Now. Alison Redlick,
• 57:47
  Speaker 1: who is one of the nation's top experts on false
• 57:50
  Speaker 1: confessions and is a professor at the State University of
• 57:54
  Speaker 1: New York, has identified several factors that occur and produce
• 57:59
  Speaker 1: false confessions.
• 58:02
  Speaker 2: Now, A suspect with a very low IQ yep Pedro's.
• 58:06
  Speaker 1: This is between sixty seven to seventy.
• 58:09
  Speaker 2: Six check, a suspect with a history of mental illness.
• 58:14
  Speaker 1: Check Pedro had decades of diagnosis and had been taking
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: antips psychotic medication for more than ten years.
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: A crime that has gained prominent media attention.
• 58:29
  Speaker 1: Aton's case was headline news and all over the internet
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: because of the FBI dig in off Neil Miller's former
• 58:37
  Speaker 1: basement workshop just the month before.
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: Check a long interrogation where issues of fatigue or desperation
• 58:47
  Speaker 2: can play a role.
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: His interrogation and confession was over a non stop twenty
• 58:54
  Speaker 1: four hour period, and he complained of being in pain,
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: being tired, and wanting to leave.
• 59:02
  Speaker 2: Check check, check that one gets three checks from me now,
• 59:06
  Speaker 2: and a confession that, however compelling, is at odds with
• 59:11
  Speaker 2: some known facts about the case.
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: For example, it had been established that investigators never believed
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: that Aton made it as far as the bus stop
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: where the bodega was. None of the bodega employees saw
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: him there either, So check yeah, check now, guys on
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: top X, thank you. I'm a super sticker again. I
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: appreciate you. You are so generous and kind.
• 59:44
  Speaker 2: You are so generous and kind. Thank you. It's because
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: Lama is a celebrity, now right, Okay, Now I'm going
• 59:58
  Speaker 2: to just say, everybody enjoy this. Jesse Lee, Hunis Koo Johnson.
• 1:00:06
  Speaker 1: Good job.
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: How did I do there? He'd agree it as a
• 1:00:09
  Speaker 2: founding figure of the field of forensic psychology and an
• 1:00:13
  Speaker 2: expert on the reliability of confessions, determined that without cooperating evidence,
• 1:00:20
  Speaker 2: relying on the statements Hernandez made to police and prosecutors
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 2: would be profoundly unsafe.
• 1:00:31
  Speaker 1: I wonder why, HM, Let's talk about a few more
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 1: discrepancies in Pedro's confession. Okay. Pedro said during his confession
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 1: that after he strangled Aton, he tossed the boy's backpack
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 1: behind a freezer in the bodegas basement, but that backpack
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: was never found. Former NYPD officer Robert McKenna helped in
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: the search for Aton ben night of his disappearance, and
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 1: said that cops were all over the bodega that night
• 1:01:04
  Speaker 1: because it was one of the only places you could
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: get coffee and how to pay phone. Because it's nineteen
• 1:01:11
  Speaker 1: seventy nine, y'all. He said that the area behind the
• 1:01:14
  Speaker 1: freezer in the basement would most assuredly have been searched.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: So yeah.
• 1:01:22
  Speaker 2: Now. In his confession, Pedro said that he had been
• 1:01:25
  Speaker 2: bringing store products from the basement when he lured Aton downstairs.
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: Some have said this possibility was rather improbable. Apparently, the
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 2: owner of the bodega, who had long passed was vigilant
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 2: about who had access to the basement. There was a
• 1:01:44
  Speaker 2: lock on the sidewalk, trap doors and a locked gate
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: underneath those. No one but the owner had keys to
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: the basement, and the owner was very protective of the
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: beer stored in there, that he accompanied anyone who went in.
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: Has also been said that it was highly unlikely Pedro
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: would have been stalking anything because he would have been
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 2: buttering roles instead.
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: Hmm, that's pretty damning.
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: That's pretty damning.
• 1:02:15
  Speaker 1: I mean, it makes sense, right, the basement is from
• 1:02:18
  Speaker 1: like the sidewalk, like the beer.
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: Really, can we just save the wine?
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 1: But you know, that's some pretty damning reasons of why
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: Pedro's story simply couldn't have happened the way that he
• 1:02:32
  Speaker 1: said that it did, and there doesn't seem to be
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: any other opportunity for him to create it differently. Now,
• 1:02:39
  Speaker 1: let's circle back to these so called witnesses that Pedro
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 1: apparently confessed to. We hadn't really gotten into them yet,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 1: but we're about to. Now let's start with Tomas Riviera. Now,
• 1:02:52
  Speaker 1: he was the leader of a charismatic Christianity group at
• 1:02:57
  Speaker 1: Saint Anthony of Padu. I don't know what something I
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 1: think we have a picture of it too. A Roman
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: Catholic church in Camden, New Jersey, Okay. He indicated that
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: Pedro publicly confessed in a prayer group in the early
• 1:03:13
  Speaker 1: eighties to having sodomized a kid in the basement of
• 1:03:19
  Speaker 1: his workplace and then stabbed the child many times with
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 1: a pointy stick. Rivera said that when he heard the
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 1: confession that he immediately told Pedro's family, who told him
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 1: they would report it to the police. One of Pedro's
• 1:03:36
  Speaker 1: sisters claims she told police in Camden, New Jersey twenty
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 1: five years ago that Pedro admitted to killing a little boy,
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: but there is nothing backing up her claims.
• 1:03:47
  Speaker 2: So I looking at her photo. I'm not judging, but
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: I'm not. I'm sorry. Guys, if the leader of church
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: hear something like that, they are mandatory reporters clergymen, unless
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 2: it's told to them and a confessional type thing. Why
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: wouldn't they go and tell? Why would you just tell
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: the family because the family's not gonna go tell.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, let's learn some more about comas.
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 2: Now, what Rivera said Pedro confessed to really doesn't match
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: with his police confession. Obviously, according to Rivera. Pedro said
• 1:04:32
  Speaker 2: he killed and chopped the boy into pieces. He said
• 1:04:35
  Speaker 2: he got him into the basement, chop him up into
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 2: pieces and put it into the trash bag. Rivera said
• 1:04:43
  Speaker 2: he was sad, like when you cry, start crying. It's
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 2: a motivation of repent. I guess what he did.
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: Now. If his recollection isn't enough to make you question
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: his credibility, then maybe the fact that Tomas Riviera is
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: also a publicly registered sex offender who pled guilty to
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 1: two counts of sexual assault and one count of endangering
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: the welfare of a child. Riviera had at least two victims,
• 1:05:18
  Speaker 1: one six years old and the other nine. It really
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 1: really repulses me the number of child predators in this story.
• 1:05:28
  Speaker 1: It's disturbing. It's so disturbing.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: But yeah, it is so disturbing.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: It is. Yeah, and he's leading this this these church
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 1: prayer groups. Yeah, this fucking guy.
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 2: And now now that I'm thinking about it, a prayer
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 2: group might be considered.
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: Oh, I don't think that's predicted at all. Actually, even
• 1:05:52
  Speaker 1: if you confessed in the eighties, I don't think there
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: are mandated reporters in the eighties.
• 1:05:57
  Speaker 2: Well, because there's still a lot more. Yes, Scorpion III,
• 1:06:03
  Speaker 2: it does get more crazy. Let's move on to Mark Pike,
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: Pedro's early eighties Camden, New Jersey neighbor. Pike's recollection was
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 2: that Pedro told him a story about a black child
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 2: who threw a ball at him when he was working
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 2: behind the counter of the bodega, and told Pike that
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: he had lost it strangled the boy, disposing of his
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 2: body in a rolled up rug that he hid behind
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 2: the bodega.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: Pike said he didn't believe the story at all, and
• 1:06:38
  Speaker 1: that Pedro was just trying to be a tough guy,
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 1: and he laughed at him even when writing up his report.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: In twenty twelve, he stated that he had doubts that
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: this story was true. After Pedro's arrest, investigators went back
• 1:06:53
  Speaker 1: to talk with Mark and showed him a picture of
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: Aton Pates and then.
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: He said, and I thought this must have been the kid,
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: because they came back and said he confessed, said he
• 1:07:06
  Speaker 2: confessed in a conversation he had with me. Pike said, obviously,
• 1:07:11
  Speaker 2: this confession by Pedro doesn't make any sense either. Aton
• 1:07:16
  Speaker 2: was obviously not black or even bi racial, and guys,
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 2: where would Pedro had even been able to discreetly find
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 2: a rug to put his body in, and once again,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: everywhere around that bodega was searched.
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah, sorry, doesn't check it. I don't think Mark, by
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: the way, I don't know anything bad about Mark. Just
• 1:07:38
  Speaker 1: he's like the only person in the story where I'm like, okay,
• 1:07:42
  Speaker 1: he sounds like just he's just been brought in. He
• 1:07:45
  Speaker 1: he doesn't seem nefarious to me. No, because he didn't
• 1:07:49
  Speaker 1: take it seriously.
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: I don't like that red balloon or red ball in
• 1:07:53
  Speaker 2: that picture, just saying a little too much. I'm sea bells.
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 2: You see what I'm thinking about. I'm going pennywise down there.
• 1:08:00
  Speaker 2: Why are we showing that boy?
• 1:08:02
  Speaker 1: Well, Jose Ramos was a five living in that dream pipe.
• 1:08:06
  Speaker 1: Didn't forget about that. But anyway, apparently it somehow made
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 1: a lot of sense to the state, as they had
• 1:08:14
  Speaker 1: Mark Pike testify before the grand jury that indicted Pedro
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 1: with a story that doesn't match up at all at all.
• 1:08:25
  Speaker 1: Hasn't testified you and I just thought of something.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: Did you notice Thomas Rivera it's the same last name
• 1:08:33
  Speaker 2: as Daisy's.
• 1:08:36
  Speaker 1: Oh did they?
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: It just hit me and I've been looking at this for.
• 1:08:42
  Speaker 1: I don't know weeks. Did they are they related in
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 1: some way?
• 1:08:45
  Speaker 2: Are they related some way? Or did she get remarried
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 2: to him?
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 1: I don't know.
• 1:08:52
  Speaker 2: Question I'm gonna Okay, Kapan noticed it too, Okay, I'm
• 1:08:56
  Speaker 2: gonna have to that incidence there's so many names is
• 1:09:02
  Speaker 2: pretty popular. But you know what, in New York, I'm
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 2: going to just say their name's the same, they must
• 1:09:09
  Speaker 2: have been married, they must be related, because that's how.
• 1:09:12
  Speaker 4: Much evidence she needed. And for this case case, that's all.
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 4: You know, It's enough they've been married this whole time.
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 4: That's all you need for for New York.
• 1:09:22
  Speaker 1: Apparently, so he testifies before the grand jury, and then
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 1: there's Daisy rivieras Riviera. Speaking of Daisy, who I don't
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 1: think it's too unfair to say most certainly had a
• 1:09:37
  Speaker 1: contentious relationship with Pedro over the last several days. I mean,
• 1:09:44
  Speaker 1: she's one of the people that the police walked past
• 1:09:47
  Speaker 1: him when they were interrogating him. And Pedro's first statement
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 1: when he sees her walk down the police hallway was
• 1:09:55
  Speaker 1: is this about child support? When their children would have
• 1:09:58
  Speaker 1: been grown by this time. And he's like, oh, that
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 1: bitch hasn't in here for child support. Yeah, anyway.
• 1:10:06
  Speaker 2: That tells you he has some trauma over child support
• 1:10:09
  Speaker 2: that she put him through. I mean, I get it,
• 1:10:14
  Speaker 2: but also get it now, let's sorry. She repeatedly told
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: Pro Publica that Pedro never talked of harming a young
• 1:10:23
  Speaker 2: child in his past. So I'm gonna let's pull up
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 2: her quote again from Pro Publica. If he said, listen, Daisy,
• 1:10:32
  Speaker 2: I have a confession to make I killed a six
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: year old child. I have it in my heart that
• 1:10:38
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have gone forward with the marriage. She said,
• 1:10:41
  Speaker 2: I wouldn't have proceeded with the marriage. Why would you
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: hurt a six year old child?
• 1:10:46
  Speaker 1: Right? Okay, okay. Oh on top of IM sending another
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 1: super sicker Okay, you are so nice tonight, sir. Oh
• 1:10:56
  Speaker 1: thank you for all your support. I'm just clicking all
• 1:11:00
  Speaker 1: the time. Oh, thank you so much. We love that.
• 1:11:04
  Speaker 1: Thank you.
• 1:11:05
  Speaker 2: We have to remember she showed up at his wedding. Hey,
• 1:11:07
  Speaker 2: let's not forget that.
• 1:11:11
  Speaker 1: Now. Daisy would go on and tell investigators and eventually
• 1:11:15
  Speaker 1: jurors that in nineteen eighty two, shortly before the couple
• 1:11:20
  Speaker 1: got married, Pedro told her that he had killed a
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 1: man in New York. I mean, I don't know about you.
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 1: But I don't know if I would have still married
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 1: somebody who said that they just murdered somebody.
• 1:11:32
  Speaker 2: But I personally wouldn't. But we all have different levels
• 1:11:36
  Speaker 2: of what we're willing to live with.
• 1:11:38
  Speaker 1: I guess, I guess, and for her, I guess that
• 1:11:40
  Speaker 1: was fine. Quote he said this person had approached him
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 1: and he had felt violated. He said had gotten out
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 1: of hand and ended up that he had his he
• 1:11:51
  Speaker 1: had put his hands around the person's neck and he
• 1:11:54
  Speaker 1: had strangled him. Then he had put him in the dumpster,
• 1:11:57
  Speaker 1: and that he had covered him with some Plasus bags.
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 1: He threw something over the body. He was emotional, he cried.
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 1: Daisy testified, sorry, but really yeah. So.
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: She also said that over a year later, she found
• 1:12:16
  Speaker 2: a shoe box of Pedro's that contained a black and
• 1:12:19
  Speaker 2: white image of Aton torn from one of the iconic
• 1:12:23
  Speaker 2: missing posters of him. She said she confronted Pedro about it.
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 1: He became nervous. He explained to me that the child
• 1:12:33
  Speaker 1: had disappeared within the area where he worked. So I
• 1:12:37
  Speaker 1: asked him why did he take that photo, and he
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 1: said he just took it because he knew the family.
• 1:12:43
  Speaker 2: Now, interestingly enough, when it came to the photo of Aton.
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: When Daisy was interviewed before Pedro's arrest, she said nothing
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 2: about finding the photo. Okay. It wasn't until after his
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 2: arrest that she mentioned it as if it was some
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 2: you know, trophy he had kept. Oh I forgot.
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I'm not team Dasy. I'm not saying she's lying.
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 1: I'm just I have questions. I have a lot of
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 1: questions regarding her, her motivation. The thing she said, and
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 1: here's the thing too, is I don't think that her
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: interviews with police were taped either. Yeah, and I do
• 1:13:29
  Speaker 1: have a problem with that as well, you know, because
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 1: how much info did they feed her or feed Mark
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 1: or feed you know, anyone else that they talked to.
• 1:13:41
  Speaker 1: I can't trust him because of the dumb shit they've
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 1: already pulled.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 2: So that's great, Okay, talk can you if it's another
• 1:13:49
  Speaker 2: SISTI or thank you, I'm going to put on a
• 1:13:52
  Speaker 2: pink shirt.
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 1: I'm pink nice no one of our wonderful supporters.
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: Yes, you are amazing, But there is so many problems
• 1:14:02
  Speaker 2: with all of these inner just there's something wrong with
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: all of them.
• 1:14:08
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and him having a picture of that because he
• 1:14:10
  Speaker 1: knew the family. I mean, he may not have known
• 1:14:13
  Speaker 1: the family on like a level, but I'm sure they
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 1: frequented the Bodeta quite often. Absolutely could have somewhat been familiar.
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 1: But also, this is how many years previously, even at
• 1:14:24
  Speaker 1: this time when she finds this box, like, and we're
• 1:14:28
  Speaker 1: talking about a man who is pretty much an unreliable narrator, right, Okay,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 1: So anyway, you guys, so, as we hint kind of
• 1:14:40
  Speaker 1: hinted at previously, this two parter is now going to
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 1: be a three parter. Yes, we're gonna have to stop
• 1:14:47
  Speaker 1: right here on the story because we couldn't really gloss
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 1: over the evidence against Pedro Hernandez or his confession because
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 1: it is going to be a big factor in next
• 1:15:00
  Speaker 1: week's story where we discuss his trials. Oh did I
• 1:15:05
  Speaker 1: say trials spoilers? Yeah, yeah, you heard, you heard. So
• 1:15:12
  Speaker 1: with that, let's and I hope you guys don't mind
• 1:15:15
  Speaker 1: that we wanted to spend a whole episode talking about
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: the confession. But it is really important to go bit
• 1:15:20
  Speaker 1: by bit by bit because it just keeps getting more
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 1: outlandish the more that this goes on. And if you
• 1:15:28
  Speaker 1: think the trials are any better, Nope, we're getting a
• 1:15:32
  Speaker 1: whole episode to those trials. So it does not get better,
• 1:15:37
  Speaker 1: all right, So let's get into our closing thoughts for
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 1: the nights I will. I think it's pretty obvious that
• 1:15:45
  Speaker 1: there's nothing that pisses me off more than situations like
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 1: this one where I don't feel like Aton Pates in
• 1:15:54
  Speaker 1: getting justice for him, was ever really the focus here.
• 1:15:59
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't all this very much. Feels like
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 1: this is about local politics and power, where for a
• 1:16:06
  Speaker 1: select few, the end justifies the means. I mean, to me,
• 1:16:10
  Speaker 1: it is plain as day, but I understand it's not
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 1: for everybody. But you see this one time, you start
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 1: seeing it more. And at this point in twenty twelve,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 1: everyone involved in this story knows better, and shame on them.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 1: Shame on them. They knew better. You know that Pedro
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 1: Hernandez seemed to fall into their lap, and that once
• 1:16:33
  Speaker 1: they realized he's a simpleton for lack of a better term,
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 1: the case closed campaign promises met where all heroes nothing
• 1:16:42
  Speaker 1: to see here. Oh my god, it's infuriating. And I'm
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 1: going to save the rest of my rant for part
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: three when we tie everything in together, because then I
• 1:16:52
  Speaker 1: will probably have like a page of my closing thoughts like,
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 1: oh really, and I will too, So you'll definitely want
• 1:17:00
  Speaker 1: to watch next week because it's very relevant even in
• 1:17:04
  Speaker 1: twenty twenty five. I think some of you might be shocked.
• 1:17:07
  Speaker 2: I mean, the fact that this happened in twenty twelve.
• 1:17:11
  Speaker 2: I'm not sure I think about this because, like I said,
• 1:17:14
  Speaker 2: in the seventies, I could be a little more forgiven.
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: Okay I could, but I can't. Just the way they
• 1:17:23
  Speaker 2: handled this, the way they screwed up everything. The police
• 1:17:29
  Speaker 2: took advantage of Pedro, and I think they broke the law.
• 1:17:35
  Speaker 1: I ag in court they didn't.
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: I know, but I'm sorry. If you are questioning someone
• 1:17:42
  Speaker 2: on New Jersey soil, you follow New Jersey law. I
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 2: don't care where the police is from. That's just my
• 1:17:49
  Speaker 2: two cents, because if you give police that little bit
• 1:17:52
  Speaker 2: y scapegoat, they're going to be using it all over
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 2: and you've got the technology. They knew they were doing
• 1:17:59
  Speaker 2: something wrong, is the reason the guy said, oh no,
• 1:18:03
  Speaker 2: let's just see how it's.
• 1:18:04
  Speaker 1: Going to go. What happens.
• 1:18:05
  Speaker 2: He knew they were doing it wrong, and that just
• 1:18:08
  Speaker 2: shame on you, and I hope all of them can't sleep.
• 1:18:14
  Speaker 2: And I'll save the rest till next week. I don't
• 1:18:18
  Speaker 2: want to go to bed mad tonight.
• 1:18:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, they were being shady, they wanted the glory.
• 1:18:23
  Speaker 2: They were shady, and the politician who got elected, shame
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 2: on you. You made a promise to do the right
• 1:18:33
  Speaker 2: thing and give the family justice.
• 1:18:35
  Speaker 1: Well, and remember he also ran on the campaign to
• 1:18:38
  Speaker 1: record all interviews. And it's fun, so much fun, wait
• 1:18:47
  Speaker 1: till we open up next the next episode regarding sidebands.
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 1: So anyway, let's wrap up the show for.
• 1:18:55
  Speaker 2: Tonight, and remember you can join me at cc Wining
• 1:18:59
  Speaker 2: Company for Gripping Live podcast recording of true crime and
• 1:19:03
  Speaker 2: wine time. And guys, we are talking at the chilling
• 1:19:06
  Speaker 2: details about Bastrop's most infamous murder. Okay, it is the
• 1:19:10
  Speaker 2: nineteen ninety six killing of Stacey Stite and the decades
• 1:19:15
  Speaker 2: long controversy surrounding Rodney Reid's conviction. I'll be there September
• 1:19:19
  Speaker 2: thirteenth from six pm to eight pm. Tickets are on
• 1:19:23
  Speaker 2: sale now. Guys, this is a case that it's kind
• 1:19:30
  Speaker 2: of like what we're talking about tonight. There's a lot
• 1:19:33
  Speaker 2: of stuff in there that you're going to be like,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: how when the hell did this happen? And it's been
• 1:19:39
  Speaker 2: appealed right now, so.
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 1: Yes, yes, I can't wait to hear it all laid out.
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 1: I don't know much about it. I've only heard bits
• 1:19:47
  Speaker 1: and pieces from Terry, so I cannot wait to hear
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 1: her presentation on this for sure. Now before we go,
• 1:19:53
  Speaker 1: if you like what you heard tonight, be sure to
• 1:19:55
  Speaker 1: follow all of our socials and subscribe to our YouTube channel.
• 1:20:00
  Speaker 1: It's free. Or if you're listening to our pod again,
• 1:20:03
  Speaker 1: please download, rate, leave a review. Whatever the platform tells
• 1:20:08
  Speaker 1: you to do so they can vary depending on so
• 1:20:12
  Speaker 1: whatever it's needed, please do that. It helps us tremendously
• 1:20:15
  Speaker 1: in getting our channel out there.
• 1:20:18
  Speaker 2: And guys, because you're here tonight, Lama knows this and
• 1:20:23
  Speaker 2: I think we said it on Couch Court. But there
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: will be more details and tickets will go up soon.
• 1:20:27
  Speaker 2: We have another live show coming up that I will
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: be doing in November. On November twenty second, it will
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: be covering the Chase Lackey case, and it is Chase
• 1:20:39
  Speaker 2: Lackie's birthday and we will be in his town and
• 1:20:43
  Speaker 2: his family will be there. So that is coming. So
• 1:20:47
  Speaker 2: instead of doing a live update and recap in September,
• 1:20:51
  Speaker 2: we're going to hold on to it and do a
• 1:20:54
  Speaker 2: full two hour show in November.
• 1:20:57
  Speaker 1: Oh wow, are you sure? Two hours? No?
• 1:20:59
  Speaker 2: Mean no, it's not going to be nus now for
• 1:21:02
  Speaker 2: our members, we will not be able to live stream
• 1:21:05
  Speaker 2: because the venue doesn't have the band with to do it,
• 1:21:10
  Speaker 2: but we will record it and release it immediately to
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 2: our members. Yes, Bells, it will be in Crossbrey, Texas.
• 1:21:19
  Speaker 2: That is close enough for you to drive and come
• 1:21:23
  Speaker 2: and see me as just a hop, skip and a jump.
• 1:21:27
  Speaker 2: In fact, Bells, the guy who owns the restaurant we're
• 1:21:30
  Speaker 2: having it lives important hures. It's a whole little thing.
• 1:21:36
  Speaker 2: So now, next week on True Crime and Mine Time,
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 2: we are going to bring you part three of the
• 1:21:42
  Speaker 2: eight and Paid's case and we will be exclusively talking
• 1:21:46
  Speaker 2: about the trials of Pedro Hernandez. And guys, if you
• 1:21:50
  Speaker 2: thought we ranted tonight, you're in for a treat. Okay,
• 1:21:55
  Speaker 2: it's on Ranting Steroids next week. So you want to
• 1:21:59
  Speaker 2: be sure to set your alarm for Thursday. Hit that
• 1:22:03
  Speaker 2: notification button because next Thursday at eight pm Eastern seven
• 1:22:07
  Speaker 2: pm Central, we are going to be back and bring
• 1:22:12
  Speaker 2: you some more insanity.
• 1:22:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a damn shame. It makes me angry. The
• 1:22:18
  Speaker 1: whole thing. Boy deserves so much.
• 1:22:21
  Speaker 2: Smart facial expressions are just priceless, just saying.
• 1:22:26
  Speaker 1: I really are. Now, if you need more of Terry,
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: True Crime and I, you can always find us doing
• 1:22:31
  Speaker 1: something on our True Crime and wind Time YouTube channel.
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: While Terry is making her way back to the screen,
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: she's doing things in baby steps. But you know what,
• 1:22:41
  Speaker 1: Midday Missing's returning this coming Monday at one pm Eastern
• 1:22:46
  Speaker 1: twelve pm Central, Mondays and Wednesdays. I'm very happy for
• 1:22:51
  Speaker 1: you to come back with that show. It's so important
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: and has such a great message. Now, while that's going on,
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: couch Court with Lana is back right now covering the
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 1: Florida versus Donna Adelson's trial, and oh boy, it has
• 1:23:05
  Speaker 1: been something. And I'm usually live around eight forty am Eastern,
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 1: but Court can be cordy some days, but it's usually
• 1:23:15
  Speaker 1: before nine. So be sure you subscribe and hit the
• 1:23:18
  Speaker 1: notification bells so you don't miss when we go live
• 1:23:20
  Speaker 1: or drop an episode. Is there anything else you'd like
• 1:23:25
  Speaker 1: to say before we go for.
• 1:23:26
  Speaker 2: Us, I just want to say, with Midday Missing coming back, oh,
• 1:23:29
  Speaker 2: there's no Court on Monday, so we don't have to
• 1:23:31
  Speaker 2: worry about Yeah, that on Monday.
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 1: Right, No, I dont have to worry about Wednesday, so.
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: We only have to worry about Wednesday. No, I just
• 1:23:40
  Speaker 2: want to say thank you everyone for listening, watching, and
• 1:23:44
  Speaker 2: supporting us. It really means a lot. I got all
• 1:23:47
  Speaker 2: sappy the other day and told y'all how much I
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: really missed you guys while I was out, And you
• 1:23:53
  Speaker 2: guys are just amazing. So please stay safe, watch out
• 1:23:58
  Speaker 2: for crime. If you see something, say something, and enjoy
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: your wine time because we need it.
• 1:24:05
  Speaker 1: Yes, thank you everyone for listening and supporting us. Until
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 1: next time, take care of your mind, take care of
• 1:24:11
  Speaker 1: each other, and never stop asking the hard questions. Now
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 1: everyone go forth and be amazing. Bye guys, Thank you