Latest / The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee / Rainbow Family Building 101 talking with Dr Tash from City Fertility

Transcript

Rainbow Family Building 101 talking with Dr Tash from City Fertility · The Home of Fertility with Liz Walton & Helen Zee

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome back to the Home of Fertility.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Today's episode is part of the City Fertility Education Series on the Home of Fertility.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_00: And this is created in partnership with City Fertility.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: Together, we are bringing you a series of conversations designed to answer some of the biggest questions people have about their fertility, about IVF, family building, and of course reproductive health.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: So whether you are beginning to explore your options, whether you're already navigating fertility treatment, our hope is that these conversations leave you feeling more informed, more empowered, and knowing you are not alone.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: So now, let's welcome today's guest.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: So good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be in this gorgeous world.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Home of Fertility podcast with me, with Liz.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: And today I am meeting another amazing woman.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: She is a doctor and doing great things in the world of fertility IVF.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I am speaking to the lovely Dr.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_00: Tosh.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: How are you, Dr.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_00: Tosh?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Well, actually, I'm a bit sad today.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, how can I send you love and gratitude and healing?
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_00: How can we help?
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it's Dolly Potton just passed away, right?
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Dolly Potton did pass away today.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're right.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: We're talking about the rainbow community, and she was a huge ally for the rainbow community.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: She was.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: And what were the words I was hearing this morning, which was, you know, if you like the rainbow, you gotta put up with the rain.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: And I think another thing was is, you know, not to be sad because she's super happy she gets to be with all of her loved ones and whatnot.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I hear you for us on this planet and this world and this space, it is sad for her to see her go.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: But for her, I know that she is gonna make beautiful music.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_00: And we are so lucky to have everything that she left behind her as you know, she helping us to be the best persons that best people that we can be.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: So I am so grateful.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: I saw Dolly Parton, it was a few years ago now, but at Glastonbury Festival.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: She was awesome, may I say.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, it was.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_02: It was awesome.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: She probably was that uh if I got here in 20 the end of 2017, it would have been 2016, 2017, even.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean, it wasn't not long before I left, but I remember her playing a tune and she was like, Shall I play it backwards?
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_00: And we were like, Yeah.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So she just turned around and played.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Oh god.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: So um I have fun memories, and uh, well, you know, we've grown up with her, we love her, and um yeah, just such blessings and gratitude for her.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think we should dedicate today's podcast to her.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: And today's podcast is wonderfully dedicated with all the rhinestones that we have to Dolly Purton.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: So let's bring her energy forward as we work 9 to 05 and put our little nails there together.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: Chika chica ching.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love her.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: So um, as I talk with the wonderful Dr.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Tash, who is also Dr.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_00: Natasha Andreadis.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what a beautiful name.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think we're gonna share who is this amazing woman, and then we can get down to our lovely discussions and conversations.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: So, Dr.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: Tash, uh I love that you're called Dr.
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: Tash, she's a qualified, experienced IVF and fertility sub-specialist and gynecologist.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: She's certified reproductive endocrinologist and infertility sub-specialist.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's making her uniquely qualified to manage to manage infertility and hormone-related issues.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: She's holistic, very integrative approach, working alongside complementary health practitioners.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: I love this, beautiful Dr.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: Tash, including dietitians, naturopaths, acupuncturists, Chinese medical practitioners, to provide the wonderful, well-rounded care that patients need.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: Rock on you.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_00: So Dr.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: Tash is widely recognized for her expertise in the LGBTQ fertility care, the rainbow fertility, uh, of which she's very proud.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: So it's a dedicated ally to the LGBTQ community, committed to providing inclusive, affirming, and judgment-free support to all patients on their path to parenthood.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: She's also a peri and menopause expert and the founding doctor of UNPOS, a telehealth platform.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_00: My goodness, you are just so amazing.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: Tash graduated from medicine at the University of New South Wales in 2000.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: She's a fellow of the Royal Australian and New New Zealand College of Obstetrics and Gynecologists.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_00: She trained primarily at the Royal Prince Alfred Hospital in Sydney and in 2008 won the Ranscog Award for the highest mark in the oral membership exam.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_00: Jeez Louise, you are freaking amazing.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_00: In her final year of specialty training, she was a research fellow at Oxford in the United Kingdom and Ustricht in Netherlands.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: She holds a master's degree in human reproduction and genetics with the University of Sydney and serves as an exam an examiner for the CREI sub-specialty program.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_00: My goodness me, Dr.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: Tash has furthered her studies in obesity, nutrition, energy medicine, and sound healing.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: She's a Reiki master healer, awesome, completed a level two diploma in sound therapy, offering music therapy as part of her practice, which is in Newtown, Fertility Centre in Sydney.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: Her research, her research in interests center on music therapy, and she has published evidence supporting the use of music to reduce anxiety associated with gynecological and gynecological and fertility procedures.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's so powerful music and vibration.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: I am extremely with you on that.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: A natural community builder, Dr.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_00: Tash hosts a monthly book club called Dr.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_00: Tash Book Club, hosts an informative health and fertility podcast, and I just love this name, the Fanny Mechanic.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_00: As the founder of Newtown Fertility Center, she creates a wonderful space where people can connect and learn and laugh, very important laughing, and feel more at home in themselves.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_00: You are speaking my language.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Tash consults at Newtown Fertility Center and works with City and Rainbow Fertility, where she provides high personalized treatment in state-of-the-art IVF facilities.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, Dr.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Tash, it is literally an honor having you here today.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: That was a big mouthful.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for that introduction.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, well, it's good for people to understand the caliber and the amazingness of people.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, this is years of study and passion and growth.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, it's just really an acknowledgement of the people that I speak to.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you for you to doing this work in the world.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you, Ditto.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_00: Ah, thank you.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: So, Dr.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Tarash, there is no single path to parenthood.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And the biggest thing that I have been learning with the Australian Fertility Summit and doing my events is there is so many paths to parenthood.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: And of course, another big space and area is the LGBTQ space.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_00: Individuals and couples, you know, families building, family building that involves different different spaces, you know, donor conception, fertility preservation, IVF and surrogacy, and other different ways of assisted reproduction and technologies.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_00: So there's awareness, and there's access have to be improved facilities.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then it's also navigating all these different pathways that can feel very complex, very overwhelming, and they're different.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really excited that we're going to be chatting about exploring the diverse family options that are available to the Rainbow Space and the Rainbow Fertility Clinic that's here for City Fertility.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: Discuss the medical, legal, and emotional considerations that are involved as we look at and highlight the inclusive fertility care that can help different individuals and couples so they can be and have their wonderful family and babies.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: So with that, can't wait to I need to shut up now.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: So Rainbow Fertility, okay, so it was created to support the LGBTQIA plus individuals, excuse me, Anna, hope I've got that right, on their path to parenthood.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: So lovely Dr.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: Tash, what inspired the creation of Rainbow Fertility and what gap was it designed to address?
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: So City Fertility is a uh would you say a boutique uh fertility service?
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_03: It's Australian.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: It was set up in 2003.
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um started in 2003 out of Brisbane, um, set up by Adnan Katanovic, who's our CEO.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_03: And um, he was originally an embryologist, but then you know formed this fertility clinic.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_03: And um after a few years, many years, Rainbow Fertility was launched in 2016.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and it really opened up as Australia's first dedicated fertility and IVF provider for the LGBTQ community because Adnan and his team could see there was a gap um in in this area of patient need.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, it recognized a patient um beyond the broader healthcare market, and uh and it really did fulfill a gap where you know a lot of people need to sit in.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so it was really my pleasure to come on board with city fertility slash rainbow fertility.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: So a lot of people get confused about the terminology, but rainbow is a part of City Fertility.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh prior to me joining um City Fertility in I think it was 2020.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_03: When did when was COVID again?
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_03: I can't even remember.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was 2021, around those two years, wasn't it?
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um around that time, around COVID, I had joined City.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_03: I had moved across from another fertility, big fertility provider.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_03: And for me, it was like night and day because the previous fertility clinic that I was at, um I barely saw any LGBTQ patients.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_03: Uh there was barely any donor sperm.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_03: And then I moved across to City and my whole practice changed.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_03: It became so much more diverse and interesting.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I really realized wow, where's City Fertility, Rainbow Fertility been all this time?
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_03: And uh I just absolutely love working with Rainbow and City because it it really is uh an all-inclusive clinic, you know.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_03: Um and it's such a really inclusive place to work.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I I love the I love the clients and the patients.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and yeah, we we we we walk the talk, so to speak.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, you know, we need to realize there's the path to parenthood has so many different areas now, and if the rainbow community isn't being supported, they really need that, and there's different different needs and requests and wants.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's absolutely awesome and a wonderful thing that City of Fertility is adding that aspect to support everyone that needs that.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are the most common um, say, family-building pathways available to the rainbow community and their individuals and the yeah, and the individuals and couples today?
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so outside of the heterosexual kind of cisgender template of care, um, I suppose the most common uh pathway I see to two cis cisgender maybe women who've come in, um uh lesbians who are wanting to have a child together.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_03: So reciprocal IVF is very common.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_03: Uh before we talk about, I suppose, pathways, one thing I like to think about and phrase with patients is it's about ingredients.
• 13:27
  SPEAKER_03: So we're you know, it's about eggs and sperm uterus.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_03: So we're looking at ingredients when it comes to baby making, and it's beyond you know, identity, uh, you know, sex, all of that.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and that's how it all becomes so creative because we are dealing with the basic building blocks of of life.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um so going back to the same sex female couples, I often see couples like that for IUI or IVF.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and so what those concept of reciprocal IVF when one partner provides the eggs, another uh might be uh a recipient of an embryo created from those eggs.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_03: And um, and that's so that's the most common scenario I see.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_03: And and the great beauty of that is is is is you know, people can take turns.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_03: One uh partner might decide to carry baby number one, the other baby number two.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_03: One might decide to uh provide the eggs and the other the eggs.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_03: The next time one may solely want to be the egg provider and the um the carrier of that child of that baby.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um we've also got you know same-sex male couples where we're needing uh donor egg, uh, we're needing a uterus, and then you've got single people by choice.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, someone who might be aromantic, asexual, someone who's never had sex, penal, penis, vagina sex in their life and doesn't ever want to have that.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um we can help people create families by being uh you know a single person by choice.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_03: And then of course you've got the big community that I also see is the transgender and the gender diverse individuals.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so people who are wanting to transition, uh, assign uh female at birth or assign male at birth who would like to, they know, have a family in the future, but they also know, and the most common I see are assigned uh male at birth who want to transition to femme.
• 15:18
  SPEAKER_03: And uh we we ideally have discussions around sperm freezing before they undergo the gender uh assignment um hormone therapy because we know that hormone therapy may render them very infertile, and so uh, you know that that's a that's another another common pathway.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, women or people with ovaries who want to transition to manhood, we do egg freezing.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because of course it's not so simple to come off testosterone.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: For some people, they find it very gender dysphoric to come off testosterone, they don't want to ever have a period.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_03: So, in order to avoid that dysphoria in the future, we would put them, we would put them through an egg-freeze cycle, create as many, um, we'll freeze as many eggs as possible so they don't kind of have to go backward um when it comes to their gender-reforming hormone therapy.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_03: And then, you know, you've got your blended and your co-parenting um arrangements.
• 16:11
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's third-party reproduction.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_03: We're talking about eggs, sperm, uterus.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, so there's lots of diversity, and it really is colorful, creative out there when it comes to um to family building.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: My goodness, I feel like I've just learned so much there about all the other ways.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is why I love these podcasts.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: They're like the biggest lessons to me.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: So third-party reproduction, having colorful ways, and just understanding all of the different aspects of the rainbow community.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, thank you so much.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now, another area is um reciprocal IVF.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: And again, excuse that my my ignorance of not understanding.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: I know it's becoming increasingly popular for same-sex couples.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what is that?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Help me to understand what is that and why does it appeal to you so many families now?
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, thanks to IVF and assisted reproductive technologies, uh society you know is shifting, is keeping up.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, same-sex marriage was legalized, what, December 2017?
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_03: Um, love is love, isn't it?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_03: And uh and thank goodness in Australia we have amazing Medicare services.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_03: We are really so lucky in this country that our government now uh provides Medicare for all people wanting to achieve a family using assisted reproduction, not just the typical, you know, um cis gendered heterosexual couple.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so uh the reciprocal IVF, which can also be termed as partner-assisted reproduction, um, it's a pathway for female sex couples, um, same-sex couples.
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_03: So, you know, two people coming in, both of them have ovaries, both of them have uteruses.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_03: So that you discuss, okay, how do you want to have a family?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: What how what is what does a family look like to you?
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_03: What I ask people, what is your vision board for a family?
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_03: How do you want to create a family?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: And they'll say, Yeah, okay, well, we we've got a known donor, known sperm donor, or we're not interested in known sperm donor, we want to go through the clinic recruited path, which I'm sure we'll touch on later.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so I talk to them, okay.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_03: So, how are we gonna get the sperm?
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_03: Where do you want to get the sperm from?
• 18:31
  SPEAKER_03: Great.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they may not know that at that point, but then they might just find it out as they work work through the process.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then we've got to talk about, okay, whose genetic material are we using?
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_03: Whose eggs are we going to use?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_03: And and whose uterus are we going to use?
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and so they'll say, Well, we want to do it this way.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I want to have a go first because I'm older, or I want to have a go first because my AMH is lower, my variant reserve is lower, or you know, I want to focus on my career for now, so the other partner will decide to carry the child.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so it's a great way also uh when we do reciprocal IVF, i.e., using uh eggs and sperm, putting the the the uh eggs of the uh donut into the recipient, the other paid person's uterus, it's a beautiful way of them coming together emotionally, physically, biology, biologically to kind of share a bond of creating a family.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so it it's a very um it's a beautiful thing to see actually.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um and it's it's it it's uh always for me very satisfying um to work through this vision board with them.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, it might change like a vision board often does.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_03: Um that's okay.
• 19:49
  SPEAKER_03: Uh people accept that they may also have to be flexible as they're going through fertility treatments.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um and uh yeah, I just love it.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: I love it so much.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_03: And uh it's it's yes, definitely one of the most common um modes of treatment that I that I um you know undertake in my practice.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_00: I love that and I love your passion for it.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Well done.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you, thank you.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so with that, what should intended parents know before they are exploring either donor sperm or donor eggs or even donor embryos?
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so again, it all it's all third-party reproduction.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_03: So knowing that things can take their time and that um I'll go back to the reciprocal IBF.
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_03: When I see that couple for the first time, or even if it's a a lesbian woman wanting to have a baby on her own using her own eggs and donor sperm, it's pretty much the same thing.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_03: Um donor counseling is a big part of it.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: So donor implications counseling is mandatory.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and uh it's two sessions with the donor counselor.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_03: Those sessions are set apart by a few weeks, they can be done online, and all of these counselors that are connected with the clinics have to be in Zika qualified, so you know it's all about board.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and those discussions with the donor counselor cover a variety of um of topics related to uh third-party don, you know, donation and reproduction.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: And a lot of people think, oh God, um uh oh, is it gonna be there?
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: Is it their set up to stop us from proceeding to treatment?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely, it's not about that at all.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_03: It's about discussing really interesting uh topics around third-party reproduction, like, okay, what's this process going to be like?
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, how will you tell this child that it's going to that it's that's been created through third party reproduction?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_03: Because we know that people who grow up to be adults always want to know what their biological origins are.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_03: So it's it's uh it that's very important.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: So, how do you how do you tell your friends or family?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: That uh you are going through this process.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_03: Well, who's going to be there to support you through this process?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: How is work going to be there to support you through the this process?
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: Is it important to set up a kind of legal documentation depending on the arrangement, whether there is a, for example, a known sperm donor or a known egg donor for whatever reason?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_03: And so other topics that are discussed are uh, you know, grief, the the fact that it might not be so straightforward that they they may require a number of goes or tries in order to achieve what their ideal um family look structure looks like.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so the implications counseling is a very psychosocial, uh biomedical model that um that is is run by a counselor, and every clinic has a report, and I receive that report before I can officially treat a couple.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and I get to know a lot about a couple or a person uh through this counseling document.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_03: I find it always very interesting and it provides a deeper dive into that person uh for me.
• 23:09
  SPEAKER_03: And um very rarely do I see red flags come up in that.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so and and and sometimes it helps people decide whether they actually want to, for example, use a known donor.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: So they undergo the counseling and go, oh, you know what?
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_03: I think maybe known donor sperm will be a bit more complicated.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: I might go down the uh you know, I de-identified donor route, but then in doing that, they'll understand that guess what?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: At the age of 18, that child will be able to have uh identifying information about their biological parent.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: So how do you feel about that?
• 23:46
  unknown: Yeah.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, in other in other countries, anonymous uh sperm donation happens a lot, but in Australia we we we don't have that because we know how important that is for the adult when they're grown up, or even the child as they're growing up.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_03: So, of course, other things that they uh want need to know in undergoing third-party reproduction, the need for infection screening, genetic counseling, genetic testing.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_03: We do a lot of genetic testing, it's quite extensive because we're all about trying to minimize the creation of sick children, um, or children that will have short, difficult lives.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and a lot of things come up with that testing.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_03: So we have a screening standards, of course.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then there's also discussions around legal parentage.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: So that's a few things that we discuss when it comes to third-party reproduction.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it's really creating that clarity of if you're choosing to go down this path, this is everything we must look at, become aware of, and you know, are you aware are you aware?
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_00: And let's move forward with that.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_00: So I that is um that's exceptional, really, to find that clarity.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: And like you say, everyone can understand exactly where we are and moving forward on that journey of parenthood.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_03: And success rates, of course, is a big part of that discussing success rates, um, because the bottom line is is age of the egg, but we know now that the age of the sperm is also equally important, which is why we have donor sperm cutoffs of 45.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_03: We know the health of the sperm donor at the time and the egg donor significantly impacts the outcome of uh of a pregnancy.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so often, you know, if I see a gay man who's donating sperm to his lesbian friends, yeah, I will see him and talk to him about his lifestyle.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um, maybe you should get off the vapes, stop the smokes, improve your quality of sperm, yeah, lose some weight, have a better diet, go on these supplements, go off that drug or on that drug before you freeze your sperm.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah um and so there's a lot of lifestyle advice around all of this.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, knowing that um if you do undergo or go want to use donor sperm, that it it is quarantined for a period of three months before you can actually use that donor sperm.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so there are rules and regulations we follow, and invariably we do this because we um want everyone to be safe and healthy as they as they proceed and go through and and and create the family that they are wanting.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_03: And obviously, the bottom line is the child conceived.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's what we want to to think of and never lose sight of.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, and create the healthiest environment, you know, ecosystem, it's possible.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: Ecos, yes.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_00: Ecosystem, is that the right word?
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: Ecosystem, there you go.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: So um let's step back, you know.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_00: So with the role for fertility and preservation, and so when we have come to transgender and gender diverse individuals who may wish to build a family in the future, so what is the role that preservate and that fertility preservation plays for them?
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: I know we touched on it before, but let's go deeper if there's anything else that needs to be shared.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: This episode is part of the City Fertility Education series on the Homer Fertility in partnership with City Fertility.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: There is no single way to create a family.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_00: For the LGBTQAI plus individuals and couples, family building may include donor conception, fertility preservation, IVF, reciprocal IVF, and other assisted reproductive options.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Through Rainbow Fertility, City Fertility provides inclusive fertility care designed to recognize that every person, relationship, and pathway to parenthood is different.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: It's about having access to expert information, understanding your options, and feeling respected and supported throughout the process.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_00: To learn more about Rainbow Fertility and inclusive family options, please do visit cityfertility.com.au Now let's get back to that amazing conversation I'm having with Dr.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: Tash.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, so I I I I see a a range of of people for um gender-affirming hormone treatments.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: I see young children or adults, usually adults, young adults um 17 or 18, who know that they would like to transition.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_03: They have significant dysphoria.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and they know that maybe one day they would like a child, and uh they know that they possibly will need a cysid reproduction.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: And so they come usually with their parents, and we have a discussion about what it means to freeze sperm eggs.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we discuss that, you know, really just do it.
• 29:17
  SPEAKER_03: If you're if you if you're not if you if you're hesitating, why are you hesitating?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it's better to freeze eggs and sperm.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and not, I say overthink it, but follow your heart.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um, of course, the downside of that comes if you never need to use those donor eggs, those, sorry, those eggs or those sperms that you've lost your money in storage.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_03: But um, it's really meeting them with where they're at.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_03: And look, some people may be unsure, and that's fine too.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so that process means that we have to discuss with them all those things I discussed earlier in regards to the legalities, um, the infection screening, um, the process they need to go through before uh undertaking the this these the sperm or egg um preservation.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, I tend to see more trans women than trans men.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um and uh in that situation, they are given instructions on sperm freezing within a couple of weeks.
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_03: Either side of that, they have infection screening and um and counseling if needed.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, it's a pretty straightforward process, really.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_03: The main thing is that these people want to be met with little judgment.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, it doesn't need to be hard.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's it's it's uh it's something that is very important to them.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_03: And acknowledging that, yes, these people want to start hormone therapy a lot a lot of the time ASAP.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so in doing that, we can usually arrange the egg and the sperm freezing um ASAP depending on the situation.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: And um, many of them may use that their frozen gametes, some of them may not.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, some of them may be using them in alternate ways that later on down the path.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so it's it's about preserving choice as well, uh, you know, having the choice uh in the future and and putting them through it so the actual process, so it's not an afterthought, it's well thought before they start the gender-affirming hormone therapy.
• 31:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um you know, again, going back to trans women when these assigned male at birth people start to start, sorry, estrogen and anti-androgens, these drugs can significantly affect fertility.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: We know it it is invariably, it happens.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and so because we know this, we're going to say, okay, hey, before you start any of this therapy, let's do some sperm freezing and away you go.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_03: And it's just one less thing that they have to stress out about.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: And there's almost like a relief that you can feel and you can see once they've done it, it's like, ah, that I've dealt with that.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_03: Now I can move on.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and later on, if they chose to come off those medications, they could if they wanted to.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: Um, similarly, you know, I saw a trans man yesterday who um still has ovaries, still has a uterus, yeah.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_03: Has a child um with his partner, they would like a second child.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: And so I've spoken with them and I said, So, you know, you're wanting to now use your eggs, but you're on testosterone.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I said, Well, you you know, how are we going to to um do an egg collection?
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_03: I do you want to come off the testosterone?
• 32:34
  SPEAKER_03: How do you feel about coming off testosterone?
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_03: Is it going to cause you dysphoria?
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: Now they've got a beard.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: Um, they are very uh presenting as as masculine.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_03: And they're like, you know what?
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: Even if I miss a dose or two, it doesn't bother me.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_03: I don't mind.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so you've got to ask them, what are you comfortable with?
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_03: Are you comfortable with transvaginal probes?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_03: Are you happy for me to use the word vagina?
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and so they said to me, no, actually, I prefer not to have a vaginal probe.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_03: If I can, I'd like to have an external transabdominal ultrasound as part of my um treatment.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: And so it's just it's just about talking it through, really, and being an open being open-minded about how you do things, yeah, and and not being so rigid in how you do things.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, you've got to work within a framework, a safety and an ethical legal framework.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but really it's about discussing what's right with you, what's right for you at this point in time.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_03: And look, patients come up with some very interesting suggestions sometimes, and sometimes I have to take them to doctors' meetings and say, hey, what does everyone think about this?
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, being open in your communication and in your sharing of information is is very important when it comes to um the transgender and gender diverse individuals.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, it really is.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: And um, it's wonderful to learn lots of different things that I I didn't realize and having that open-mindedness, but with with compassion, with care and with love, you know, there's always a way to make it work.
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: So um, so just so wonderful that you are able to be there for all of these different spaces.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, I'm I'm I'm I I really take take my hat off to you.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_00: Well done.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_00: So, what are the biggest misconceptions um for the LGBTQAI family building um in the fertility treatments?
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: What are those biggest misconceptions?
• 34:43
  SPEAKER_03: I would say probably one of the biggest ones is that people who are transgender don't want biological children.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_03: Um, many of them do.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_03: And for that reason, fertility preservation should be offered as a standard care and um not assumed as unnecessary.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: We shouldn't make it difficult for people, we should make it easy for people.
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_03: Um the other assumption is that people uh who are under the LGBTQ are not going to be good parents, and that's bollocks, and there's a lot of research that kind of uh goes against that.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, of course, this this generally comes from hetero people.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I mean, look, I'm a heterosexual myself, I'm a cisgendered hetero person.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_03: I'm not an LGBTQ um peep, but I am an ally, I'm a fierce ally, and um I can say that because a lot of it comes from fear, um, and uh and people making judgments that are uncalled for.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: And um so and that's why I feel that you know I meet the most wonderful transgender people, and for me, a lot of them are so fearless and they know what they want, you know, and uh they've thought it through.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um and yeah, so other things I would say are that same-sex couples like a lesbian couple wanting to do reciprocal IVF, that it you know, you just have to choose the sperm, and and it's as simple as that, right?
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't matter who carries.
• 36:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, that can be quite complicated too.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, because you've got to figure out who is probably the hell the healthier of the two and more fitting to carry and and and uh donated their eggs.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_03: Um what other ones are there?
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_03: Uh you know, the donor sperm is a last resort again for the for lesbian couples.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: Uh it's not.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_03: They need they need it, they need it to have a baby.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_03: And um even people who are a couple with a trans person, they might need donor egg or or donor sperm.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: And um and yeah, again, I suppose the other one would be surrogacy, that it's very straightforward and that all you need is a lot of money to undergo surrogacy.
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yes, surrogacy is very expensive, but it's also very complicated and it could take one to two years.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um from the time the idea comes into a couple's mind or a person's mind until they have a baby in their arms, it can take quite a long time.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_03: So um, you know, and surrogacy doesn't just apply to the LGGBTQ.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_03: We have we have people who cannot carry babies for medical reasons or they're born without a uterus.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, people are born without uteruses, yes.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_03: People are born uh with the genetics of of of a uh an XY and present differently, you know.
• 37:38
  SPEAKER_03: So uh it's um there's so much variation in in human biology as well, and that's what I find astounding is that a lot of people are surprised at oh wow, carry typically this person's uh a man, 46 XY, but genetically or phenotypically they they're they look like a woman.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_03: So what do you mean they've got testicles and they have a micropenis, but they don't have a vagina, but they've got breasts and they look like a woman.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, this is the I would say the beauty of of humans, the humans, yeah, you know.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um so again, I think for me it's people needing to keep an open mind, yeah, and uh embracing the difference in other people and working with it, not against it.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: I was really lucky um with the exo that we had last year.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: I met a wonderful man called Sean Resnick, and he was one of the first um same-sex couples to have a surrogate baby.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: He was a fascinating, really lovely chap.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then I've also met um quite a few women who also have had to have surrogacy through lots of different issues.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, it's it's so learning, you know.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: It it we are, you know, we all have a different story, we all have a different reason for our pathway to parenthood, and it's all it's all beautiful in its own way, you know, and it is what it is.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it's it's it's it's phenomenal that now with assisted reproduction and what we know that we can that there is support for you no matter what there is, yeah.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I mean it's uh it's a beautiful place to to work in, I have to say.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I'm so glad.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_00: And I I I just think you know, your knowledge of the rainbow space um and the community is is so needed right now.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_00: And so let's have a look.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_00: So, what does true inclusivity um fertility inclusivity care look like?
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_00: And how does the rainbow fertility help create that sort of safeness, the support experience for parents in waiting or for patients, should I say?
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_03: Um, look, I suppose I can talk about it from my practice perspective first.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_03: So uh it's about language, isn't it?
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_03: It's all about language and her and communication and making people feel safe and seen.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_03: So if someone looks me up, they go to my website, they can see my website.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_03: It's pretty inclusive in its language.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_03: So I got a con to have a look at my website.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_03: I paid for them to do that to say, Oh, I want you to look at it from the lens of a of an LGBTQ.
• 40:37
  SPEAKER_03: I want this to be uh a safe uh, you know, uh internet space for people.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_03: And um, they looked at that and made some changes and some recommendations.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_03: Of course, patients have to uh fill out some forms when they see me, and I use quite you know neutral, uh gender-inclusive language intentionally.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, if they speak to my secretary, my secretary is also um across the space.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_03: This and you know, no knows it's not just about pronouns, it's it's way beyond the pronoun.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and and what it means for someone to be um called a certain name.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um and uh and when they come into my waiting room, what do they see?
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_03: They'll see a lot of books on my bookshelf.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_03: And those books might be about trans health, um, solo parentage, lesbians, um lesbian love, motherhood, uh, surrogacy.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh they'll see my Dolly Putton pillow, they'll see um there'll be signs, there'll be artwork.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I don't have to open my mouth.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_03: They've come into my practice and they've already seen they're in a safe space.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_03: And um and at Rainbow uh it's a very similar approach.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's about language, it's about having um kind of uh a waiting room that is telling it all, really.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and fundamentally it's about it's about safety, yeah, and being and and feeling safe to be yourself in a space.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, no, absolutely being able to walk into that room and just know, oh, you've got me.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_00: I understand, and I know I'm in the right space.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: So um, yeah, yeah, awesome.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I just love the fact that within city fertility is rainbow fertility, and you know, the individual knows that's that space for me.
• 42:38
  SPEAKER_00: So awesome.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_03: Now what knowing that they um they are are going to a doctor or or a space where they don't have to explain things, yeah, yeah.
• 42:48
  SPEAKER_03: You know, they don't have to educate that doctor about uh what it means to be trans.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and of course, I'm I'm not saying I know everything and I I'm always learning from my patients.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but it's it it's uh it's again, as I mentioned, beyond the pronoun.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:08
  unknown: Yes.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_03: Education of staff.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_03: But when they start to work for Rainbow or City.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_03: Uh so if I was to ever have a new member of New Fertil Newtown Fertility Clinic, yeah, I would, you know, in my interview process, I'd be screening them.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_03: Are you happy to work with this community?
• 43:26
  SPEAKER_03: Because if you're not, you're not gonna work here.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and if you are happy to work here, then you're gonna be you're gonna have to do XYZ courses and maybe read XYZ books to know more about the patient experience um before you can say, I am going to work here.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:42
  SPEAKER_00: Being completely um understanding and educated.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: Open.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: And open.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: Love that.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_00: So, what advice would you give to someone who is just starting their family building journey and They are within the space of the Rainbow Community and LGBTQAI plus family.
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I would give them the same advice I would give anyone wanting to create a family, have babies, and that's get healthy.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_03: Look at your your health, your lifestyle, your diet, your habits, your stress levels, your sleep, your health behaviors.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_03: Do you smoke?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_03: Do you drink?
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_03: Are you carrying excess weight?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_03: How do we improve the quality of those eggs and the space in that uterus, that sperm, before we create another human?
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_03: What's your mental health like?
• 44:39
  SPEAKER_03: What drugs are you taking for your mental health?
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_03: Have we got that under control?
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_03: So that's fundamentally the first thing I speak to anyone, doesn't matter who they are before starting a family-building journey.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_03: I would then say to specifically to the LGBTQ community that, you know, it takes time.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_03: And look, a lot of these people know that it takes time because they have to go through the donor seeking process, the donor counseling, the genetic screening.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_03: They often come very prepared with lots of questions and know we want to do this in two years' time.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_03: We want to create our start creating our family, but we know it's going to take time.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_03: So we're here today and we want to gather some information because we want to make the best decisions possible moving forward.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, we know that there are certain steps we need to go through.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_03: We don't want to stress ourselves out.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_03: We want to do this at a at a non-stressful pace because we know it's going to be potentially stressful anyway.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_03: You know, um, there's going to be a lot of emotional work, real work to be done there.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and you know, connecting them to uh an appropriate counselor who can actually show them and guide them and and and uh and and give them some resources to use as they're going through the process, you know, fundamentally um accepting that yeah, there's gonna be ups and downs.
• 45:56
  SPEAKER_03: You one day you might get a good egg collection resort, you might get 10 eggs, but guess what?
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_03: You might not get 10 embryos, you might not get any embryos.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_03: So then how do you navigate that process?
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, you've run out of donor sperm, and now you're gonna have to go down another donor sperm pathway.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um yeah, so knowing that there are certain steps you need to go through, perhaps you need to investigate more legal advice, especially the surrogacy space, um, connecting with good legal advisors.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_03: Uh they're the they're the kind of uh big things I would recommend and also staying flexible.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_03: Going into it, have a kind of a rough sketch of where you where you want to go, but staying flexible, being able to pivot is important.
• 46:46
  unknown: Yeah.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I think I like what you said at the beginning.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's having your your vision, you know, what is you want your family to look like?
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: What's your vision?
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and if you have that goal, then you know, putting all of your um your ducks in a row, you know, whether it is um uh talking to counselors, you know, what what is it that we need to know when it comes to health as you know, all of those things and being healthy, putting everything in a row.
• 47:15
  SPEAKER_00: Up sublimination.
• 47:16
  unknown: Yeah.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I'm always impressed by how um much homework a lot of these people have done and how organized they really can be.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's great to work through that.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: It really is.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_03: And don't send me an email of okay, this is what I'm hoping to do next.
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think?
• 47:33
  unknown: Yeah.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, sure, okay, that's that could work.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_03: I've never thought I never thought of doing that.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, they can be the biggest uh teachers because they are our our our our clients and our you know the people that come to see us.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's awesome.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so Dr.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: Tash, as we um start to come to the end of our discussion, what would be some of the key takeaways you would like to leave the listeners with today?
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: Have a clear vision of if you can, have a clear vision, but you know, vision might be blurred or it might be very clear.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_03: Try and imagine whatever it is that you're wanting to achieve.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um be an advocate for yourself, uh stay flexible, um and yeah, be honest with yourself.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_03: I think honest being honest with yourself is very important, and um I I I think I would like to close with something that Dolly would say I love it from Be More Dolly, Life Lessons Beyond the Nine to Five.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_03: And she famously always used to say, I just think everybody should be loved and accepted for exactly and what they are, and we should love ourselves exactly for who and how we are.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think that is extremely beautiful for today, Dr.
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_00: Tash, with the wise words of our beautiful Dolly Parton.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um yeah, indeed.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_00: With the, you know, and exactly family building is is not one size fits all.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: And we're really lucky with the rainbow fertility space.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's created uh to provide a very inclusive expert-led fertility care with the wonderful Dr.
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: Tash here, and it's tailored to the unique needs of the Rainbow Fertility, the Rainbow Um community, the LGBTQ, for individuals and couples and helping them navigate their pathway to parenthood with confidence, with support, and in the wonderful words of Dolly, you know, being able to accept who you are in the most beautiful way that you are.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_00: Dr.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: Tash, thank you for your time today.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me on, Liz.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, well, I think the pleasure is all mine.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: You keep doing your amazing work in the world as you support everybody in this space and helping them to navigate with clarity, with with kindness and with compassion so that they can become um their the best parents that they can be.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for that.
• 50:22
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, with that, thank you all.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_00: And we will remember Dolly Parton in her wise words of you know, everyone should be um um acknowledged for the beauty that they are and the beauty in this world.
• 50:37
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you so much.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_00: And with that, lots of love and have a beautiful day.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: And thank you, Dr.
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: Tash.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_02: Thanks, Liz.
• 50:45
  unknown: Yay.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for joining me for another episode of the City Fertility Education series, which is on the home of fertility.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is created in partnership with City Fertility.
• 51:04
  SPEAKER_00: I do hope today's conversation has given you something extremely useful to take away.
• 51:10
  SPEAKER_00: Perhaps it's a better understanding of your fertility, maybe it's a new question, or simply more confidence in knowing what your options might be.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: Because sometimes one conversation can be the thread that leads you to the information, support, or next step that's right for you.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you'd like to learn more about City Fertility and the services that they offer, please visit cityfertility.com.au And if today's episode could help someone you know, please share it with them and follow the home of fertility wherever you listen on your podcast.
• 51:51
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Liz Walton.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you so much for listening, and I'll see you back here for our next conversation.