Latest / El futuro fue ayer con Juan Guillermo Martín / Bioarqueología, lo que nos dicen los huesos del pasado

Transcript

Bioarqueología, lo que nos dicen los huesos del pasado · El futuro fue ayer con Juan Guillermo Martín

0:05
The future was yesterday? It' s an archaeology podcast where ghosts, conspiracy
0:14
theories and aliens have no place. I am Jua Guillermo Martín archaeologist and university
0:25
professor and with the hand of different specialists, would be scientifically addressing our fascinating
0:31
past, a past that offers us answers to face the future. Welcome to
0:48
the podcast The future was yesterday? Sol Juan Guillermo Martín archeol Today we are
0:52
going to talk about bioarchaeology, in other words, the study of human beings
0:57
from their remains. Or to talk about this, I have a guest.
1:03
It' s about seeing the ground, you' ll be welcome. Thank
1:07
you very much. This is a pleasure to connect here from Mexico and,
1:11
therefore, to discuss topics of interest. It is true that they carry or
1:17
many other subjects, not only in study of human remains, but of that
1:22
we will discuss. I guess I do. For those who don' t
1:26
know her, A Tisler is a doctor at the Instituto Politécnico Nacional de México
1:32
and a PhD in Anthropology from the Universidad Autónoma de México. It is attached
1:36
to the Mexican National Research System, with numerous projects associated with Mayan culture and
1:42
the early conquest of America, disseminated in about a hundred scientific publications. In
1:47
her laboratory she guards a valuable database of more than twelve zero burials, half
1:53
of which have been studied directly by her and her team is currently a professor
1:59
at the Autonomous University of Yucatán. Well, let' s get into matter
2:04
and see in archaeological contexts. It is relatively common to find tombs or human
2:09
burials that offer us valuable information about religious beliefs, funeral practices, social differentiation
2:16
from which funerary, for example. But surely much of those stories of the
2:22
past are told by the bones to get into what it is about. Bioarchaeology
2:27
is a very good question. It' s really a term that was adopted
2:34
only forty- fifty years ago, and before it was known as physical anthropology.
2:38
Mortious archaeology, no, but under that denomination, because it was more
2:44
proactive the effort to study human remains from a cultural viu perspective, properly that
2:51
is, interdisciplinary as part of the mortuary record to generate in reality as part
2:57
of the material record, as part of the whole to make logical, always
3:00
with the idea that their biological dealings in some way. And then I would
3:08
like us to start explaining to those who listen to us from the bones,
3:15
how it is possible, in principle, to identify or specify a person'
3:21
s sex. Yes, it' s something that really sounds very technical,
3:25
but it has its bermols. True, a person' s sex is actually
3:30
only perceptible from puberty, that is, when the male and female secondary attributes
3:37
have already fully developed. And yet, sometimes there are doubts because there is
3:45
population diversity or individual phenotypic characteristics. So it' s complicated, but it
3:53
made great features. We can say that it is above all the Skull and
3:58
also the perris that serves women as a birth canal, because they do show
4:01
attributes that are bimorphic and we call them, which are, for example,
4:06
attributes of a very wide pervis, districts of childbirth, which are these injuries
4:11
that remain during the trauma of childbirth in the form of grooves reabsorptions, since
4:17
we can recognize them as feminine, and these translate directly to the recognition of
4:25
angles that are wider, such as the psychiatric angle, the sub- public
4:30
branch. Not that is a whole subject that for which there exist a series
4:33
of taxonomys, standard parameters. Then everything is well described. Then, in
4:41
the skull it is very interesting also that there are pimorphic traits that we still
4:46
recognize. We see someone in the face, in the street, and then
4:51
suddenly they say it' s not like he looks like a man or looks
4:55
like a woman. But that is precisely why what we apply is in the
5:00
determination of the chin, in the determination, for example, of the superciliary
5:03
arches of the nucal muscles, because that we can distinguish in general terms,
5:11
men are much more robust, larger, have stronger muscle insertions than women.
5:18
But there are always exceptions, a very striking one for the American arena,
5:24
for example, is the use of metate among women, the work with corn,
5:29
the grinding of corn, which has led to muscle insertions and degrees of
5:32
robustness that sometimes exceed those of men in women who are grinding all day.
5:42
Sure, sure, they finally leave that evidence in the bones. Because,
5:46
then, it must be said, and I think that we failed to mention
5:54
it, because birchaeological studies are normally, in the first instance, associated with
5:58
what is called the basic quartet. So we talk about the identification of sex,
6:01
the estimation of age at the time of death, the estimation also of
6:09
height and, in some cases, therefore, the population origin, the population
6:14
ancestor, which is a much discussed issue. But first to talk about height,
6:18
since we talk about after sex, how the stature of an individual is
6:25
estimated. Maybe that would be for those who listen to us. They should
6:30
also have some ideas on how to do it and that would be particularly easier.
6:34
But it has to be borne in mind that in the archaeological record,
6:39
the bones are usually not complete, they are fragmented and that has an additional
6:44
challenge that you face in these kinds of contexts. How the stature of a
6:48
raisins individual is estimated there are several forms. When it comes to tomba,
6:55
it' s in the individual, it' s in the ulna, it
6:58
' s spread out, that' s how it' s laid down,
7:02
so direct, until that' s not, then you measure, but you
7:06
' re an old man, a senior. Typically, the height is going
7:08
to be less than the maximum by just the sothioporotic effects. So, when
7:15
we' re already talking about the maximum height, this one reached. We
7:18
serve long bones and apply a series of correlations, formulas that exist for each
7:29
type of population, Amerindian, Caucasian, African and more special populations, for
7:34
example, in our field of Mesoamerican bioarchaeology, because it was genoese who devised
7:41
a series of formulas, using today' s documented populations of indigenous extraction.
7:53
So it was that these correlations were generated and they are different for women for
8:01
men, because of a question of change of proportions and they work quite well.
8:05
I must say, and then there is another, since you mention,
8:09
the aspect of high fragmentation, which is extreme in our shared reality, especially
8:15
in those treatments that are tropical subtropic where, therefore, the preservation of organic
8:20
remains is not privileged, because there we also have the way to calculate the
8:26
length of a segment from a fragment. So it' s like segment calculation
8:33
and then maximum height calculation. But it is a little more imprecise, true,
8:39
clear, clear, and you mentioned now just the issue of population origin,
8:45
which is also possible to approach from bioarchaeology. Of course, there are
8:50
the genetic options, but we usually don' t have the resources to do
8:58
genetic analysis of an burial set in an excavation and the iluption as more feasible
9:05
for us in bioarchaeology. How population origin is determined is a very good question
9:11
and, in fact, very complex question, because already interdisciplinary interstices are blurring.
9:20
I can say that more and more, with the advent of the very
9:24
sophisticated archaeometry of human remains, you understand in bones, such as istopia of
9:30
origin or, more recently, paleogenomics. So now we come up with the
9:37
dilemma of what we do bioarchaeology or we are collaborators of the laboratory teams truth
9:46
and the combination of those methods, because it has been increasingly changing. Actually,
9:52
we are living in a very fascinating time of new discoveries. Now,
9:58
speaking of macroscopic v archaeology, we conventionally say those attributes that are the ones
10:05
that change little, that are more genetically determined, such as, for example,
10:09
some non- metric traits of teeth, are those that we typically use
10:16
and because there are as cuspidity and each population, because it is usually represented
10:22
at different frequencies in terms of these dental attributes that, moreover, are not
10:30
so modifiable by the question of gender, because the tental cuspids are there since
10:35
before birth. Then, there does not vary much the environment. So,
10:39
typically experts call epigenitists or dental anthropologists. What they do is they use multivariate
10:48
statisticians and generate as a kind of population locations or puch trarps that would be
10:56
like tree branches. That is very good, because it requires, because really
11:03
a fairly broad population represented chronologically, let' s say, validated of individuals
11:09
that is not always the case to make us statistic that this population with this
11:16
and one knows that nothing to see, then there is a little, as
11:22
well as a need to correlate that information with another. And there it is
11:26
offered, for example, not only the chronology and distribution between the sites,
11:33
the space of some customs that equally has an ethnic value, the same cephalic
11:41
modification, for example, or that come in Mayan area. At least we
11:46
can recognize if an individual comes from another area provides another type of flattening of
11:54
the skull and is certainly genetic and hysotopia. I don' t know if
12:00
you want me to a little bit about that could be clear, because obviously,
12:05
they are tools that are now being used more strongly and that come in
12:11
not to compete, but to complement and enrich the study of the populations of
12:16
the past. Yes, of course, because it fascinates me lately you have
12:20
fascinated me to use the terms of profiling, that is to say to profile
12:26
a person, not only in terms of age sex, which in turn has
12:30
a cultural connotation, the social ages, the question of gender so important,
12:37
but also precisely the question of ethical or regional cultural origin and integration in general.
12:43
And then it comes very much to the case, because the isotopia of
12:48
strongeo oxygen and some already use also lead sulfur, depending on the substrate that
12:54
is basically when measured in the first mulars, for example, is writing,
13:01
It is like freezing water conditions, water input, as profiles, proportions of
13:07
isotopia of certain elements that it reflects in the place of origin where, since
13:13
it was born, where it spent the first year of life. And when
13:16
one compares it to the place of death or burial, one then notes,
13:20
for suddenly it is or equal, that it is so that it is originated
13:26
from these premises or is dissenting. And when it' s dissenting, because
13:31
that' s where the scientific community has dedicated itself to looking for a site
13:39
that they could, let' s say, match with that birth profile and
13:43
then it' s generated a series of line date base maps or reference data
13:48
where one can say how interesting it doesn' t have a much higher value
13:52
that could match that other one. Then a third element is used and thus
13:56
multi elements, it is called multi isotopia, which allows to actually locate the
14:01
individual in terms of the place of childhood and as a migrant. When this
14:07
is done in bone, even one can detect a recent migrant who is still
14:11
in the bone that reflects the last ten years of life, more or less.
14:16
This one is still dissenting or much more interesting, which was buried in
14:22
one place and then taken to the site of a new home, the again
14:28
rooting. So that made it a top and now the new technique, not
14:35
only the palio adne mitochondrial, which one gives information about the maternal line.
14:41
It is much easier to extract and massify, because it is paleogenoma, which
14:48
is nuclear DNA than, therefore, very few laboratories really worldwide. But those
14:52
who have achieved this, then, are the ones who are right now in
14:56
the Nature boom and the high- impact magazines that can really determine what population
15:03
relationships are to a much more sophisticated degree, because they are not only analyzing
15:11
the individual, but also their parents. No, I mean, everything in
15:15
that package comes together, not and how the replacement is. I mean,
15:20
it' s something that' s fascinating, like current genetics. They are
15:24
certainly not coming, for not near. But then, every time and as
15:28
the number of data grows and the databases are fed, they facilitate, of
15:33
course, the correlation and interpretation much more precise, even establishing also chronological sequences,
15:39
that is, they also allow to identify chronology from these paleogenetic studies that
15:46
begin to revolutionize and, as you well say, they are now very strongly
15:52
present in high impact journals at the scientific level. It' s an extremely
16:02
interesting trend. If only twenty years ago no one interested them, that is,
16:06
very few people of human remains and bioarchaeology was proactive, yes, you
16:11
should not be studied. Right now, everyone is fighting for access to skeletal
16:15
samples that before, because it did not attract much attention, even among archaeologists
16:22
so conventional, that is, they are monothematic in that they do not leave
16:27
the topic of what to learn from issues of migration, mobility, population substitution
16:36
from the same human remains, no longer from material culture, that is,
16:40
what they generated, but the same bodies. It' s quite fascinating and
16:45
that, as this Juan Guillermo puts it, is becoming more and more important.
16:51
Crucial. I would say to increase databases that can match information from the
16:56
various projects sites in one era a great regional, interregional panorama of a validated
17:07
transition. It is another problem that has had bioarchaeology, indirect dating with ceramics,
17:11
ceramic complexes that may or may not coincide with burial. Now the technique
17:18
of carbon radio is in vogue in any burial to have and directly in the
17:26
osamenta, to have the data. And with that, then, we are
17:30
talking about several thousand and thousands and thousands of individuals who are already systematically captured,
17:37
not only in specific terms of the technique, but it is about matching.
17:42
And so really what I would say as a profaling is not like forensic
17:48
anthropology is the case study and then different levels of residence or residential population or
17:55
cemetery are replicated, and then the location, neighborhood locality and then the city
18:00
and region. Right. This is true, and there is one issue that
18:11
is also exciting when studying human partner remains and that has to do with these
18:15
numerous diseases that leave evidence in the bones. What diseases we can identify in
18:22
the human partner remains And, of course, that, in one way or
18:27
another also allows us to approach the medical practices of the past, because it
18:34
is as exciting as it is elusive, unfortunately because the vast majority of diseases,
18:41
because they leave no trace, or when they leave traces on the bones,
18:45
are very specific those traces. And when it comes to acute diseases,
18:51
that is, we can' t even recognize anything just with advances in paleogenomics.
18:56
We have tried to extract this, for example, germs from certain fevers,
19:03
yellows, flus, etc, with some success, but we are still
19:07
starting this step now those diseases that do allow us to evaluate, that is
19:15
to say we can recognize them in terms of taxonomy of origin, as if
19:22
they are infectious, chronic or if they are metabolic, if they are deficient.
19:26
And there is a very interesting question that those childhood diseases that are still
19:33
imprinted on the olfactory by their own development and growth, are still evidenced in
19:37
the osamentes of adults. I' m talking, for example, about enamel
19:41
pyoplasia in teeth that leave grooves and this groove stays until the person dies.
19:48
And others of this are, for example, otic hyperostosis in the skull.
19:53
The oritanias that we call are the poetics that speak to us of crisis or
20:00
rather permanent crises, persistent of anemia or parasitosis in the infant, early according
20:10
to the childhood or also the scurvy, repeated hemorrhages, lack of vitamin,
20:15
d that still via we can recognize in the small infant that it is remodeling
20:22
and express it already in the tutum is more difficult. But there are others,
20:26
for example traumatology, which is something that is very similar to the medical,
20:33
orthopaedic, forensic, forensic medicine, which we can also apply to morporium
20:40
records. Skeletal, of course, even some cultural practices, especially since very
20:51
highly studied, particularly in the Mesoamerican region, such as the cranial deformation,
20:57
which has, of course, a key cultural component that is little known and
21:06
would prove to be absolutely strange to today' s populations. You could not
21:11
tell us about this particular topic, which is interesting and addressed, of course,
21:17
is of biotheology. Of course it is, because it is a really
21:22
very relevant subject at the world level, because in fact, in all continents
21:27
child cephalic modification was practiced, although sometimes in some areas, in subscribed regions,
21:38
but because it is practically omnipresent our human past of being, because Neanderthals,
21:45
in fact, already have flattenings that we don' t know well if
21:49
it is to be charged, but sometimes they are so marked that, since
21:56
it has posed questions about the intentional cultural origin of them and, already speaking
22:02
of modern man, it is everywhere, from China, Asia, Europe and
22:08
above all in Mesoamerica, which led colleagues if it passed already at that time,
22:14
to say that it was the headquarters of those cephalic modifications the American continent
22:18
and from there they were torn off with taxonomys that were mutually exclusive. Or
22:27
so, let' s say confused. So, because there has been a
22:30
whole tradition very, very remarkable, especially among the former colleagues of Latin America,
22:40
particularly the colleagues of Argentina Tembo in Beluni for example, then Fikienburg from
22:48
France and in the Mesoamerican sphere, was the Roman arturo professor who detonated the
22:56
anthropology of the cephalic modifications and that we have been yes with the taxonomy itself
23:03
and the inclination to try to interpret it in the Mesoamerican terms that this is
23:11
a very fascinating subject, also because the whole world is very focused on the
23:15
form, but not on the process and also on the organic aspect, desirable,
23:22
not desirable, harmful depots or questions that have a very acute relevance in
23:27
the Mesoamerican sphere, which perhaps we do not realize today. And, in
23:33
fact, a clarification. Cephalic modification continues to be practised, albeit in a
23:38
more sublime form, among some traditional communities in Mesoamerica, in the form of
23:47
caps, in forms of protection. That is a subject that remains quite topical.
23:53
A question about this and because I know it is a topic that you
23:56
have studied, explains them related to social status, for example, with aesthetic
24:04
preferences what are the interpretations that are made from these modifications. I think the
24:17
modification is phallic kills a lot of myths from colleagues at the academy thinking about
24:22
status. And all because it is actually reflecting the result of a practice of
24:30
the practitioner, typically the practitioner, which is a generation or two or three
24:36
later, of the child, of the baby, of the newborn being modeled.
24:40
So that' s one aspect. The baby still doesn' t have
24:44
it there as a very marked genre, and that too is shaped at least
24:48
in the good one, also the Andean one, that is, in the
24:52
American populations. Typically it was the same way the female testa as the i
24:59
e, the most male papé and the baby baby. So you can'
25:07
t really talk about a matter of aesthetics, although I know that in other
25:12
parts of the world, in India, for example, yes, that was
25:15
the case. So it is very important to try to look for meanings that
25:22
are pleasant, that are integrated, that is, that they can say integrate
25:29
into a vision, into a mentality of the region, of the cultural sphere,
25:34
not impose there a criterion that is like that of beauty, which is
25:40
also a little bit dangerous to use in our Western notion and try to understand
25:47
the modifications in its own cultural terms, which seems to be difficult, but
25:52
not if one is really immersed in culture and acceptances. It is an issue
25:56
that is greatly facilitated in our field here, in Mesoamerica, with the inscriptions,
26:00
epigraphy, there are still more than a hundred languages than languages that can
26:06
serve as loans of semiology. We call it in those double senses, which
26:14
is, for example, occiput, what connotation it has, what is the
26:18
idea of this part of the world, more in an environment still very linked
26:25
to the body, where the universe is reflected in the human body. Thus,
26:29
it is easier to derive interpretations for this practice and, of course,
26:33
for others. Not just think of dental decorations or earmuffs or facial paint.
26:42
It is a subject that we could talk about hours and hours very true and
26:51
in terms of medical practices. Perhaps there is a very striking one that is
26:57
related to preparations, the cranial interventions that were also advanced in pre- Hispanic
27:07
times in America and that, of course, demonstrate a knowledge of the human
27:12
body, because, moreover, we know that much of those interventions were successful
27:21
and the person survived and healed that wound. Some idea that from bioarchaeology has
27:27
been raised to explain that type of intervention and the result of it, which
27:33
I think can be difficult to make good. There are many clues, especially
27:38
for the Andean area, which has been intensely worked by Pedro Pieze and more
27:44
recently John Thrunot of the United States, which, therefore, point to a
27:52
very practical question that is logical between weapons, among other things, in the
28:00
combat war activities face- to- face combat were used as a kind of
28:06
mallet And then, what had to happen happened. And because many people had
28:11
intra- Cranian spills and then had to intervene immediately to relieve intra- Cranean
28:19
pressure and then premiere to say so the injury. And this led, apparently
28:26
over time and in very early, very distant times, to a tradition properly
28:32
very multifaceted in the technical operational sense is to use, for example, barbed,
28:40
varenes, then cut, then wear. There are also a multitude of
28:48
different techniques that are also oriented in the place precisely the opening, the size
28:52
of the opening, the needs and as many were successful. It' s
28:56
not a very striking thing to say. Now outside the Andean realm, there
29:03
are certain examples, but they are also very numerous in the Mesoamerican sphere.
29:07
Above all they subscribe to Oxaca, to Montalban Que, because, of course,
29:15
it raises a series of contact questions no, contact no. One issue
29:18
that is increasingly being physically patented even is cross- cultural connectivity. And then
29:29
what once seemed very risky ventured, because now it is already a fact that
29:33
there were indirect contacts throughout the Pacific And because of course no yes, of
29:40
course you were going to a few years ago you fell over diffusion, because,
29:47
moreover, there was always for a long time the idea that the sea
29:53
was an obstacle and until very recently it is understood that the Sea was a
30:00
vehicle, a space that facilitated the communication of long distance where, in some
30:04
cases people do not necessarily move and object, but above all that ideas,
30:11
ideas related, for example, with medical practices, with the incorporation of a
30:15
food, of a seed, etc, etc. There are several things that
30:21
move there and that move in long distance circuits that we now begin to understand
30:26
and finally dare to sign it. Yeah, actually, this one does genetic
30:34
discoveries. He is already talking about populations that are peaceful, that are in
30:41
the Amazon, that are in South America, that is close to Colombia,
30:47
certainly and that before it was impossible to talk about that. No or in
30:51
the example of Mesoamerica, migrations that were previously discarded between Huacan Maya area.
31:00
Now we know from the writing and from the physical remains that actually took place,
31:07
even if they took fifty days, these stretches, these walks, but
31:14
they did not take place. Yeah, yeah, that' s right.
31:18
There is another part of the associated remains, particularly the teeth, which also
31:22
give us an important amount of information, for example, the dental calculus,
31:29
where we can extract micro- botanical elements that give us an idea through the
31:36
starchy phytoliths of the plants consumed in life by these populations of the past.
31:40
What other information dental parts or dental tests offer us. It' s something
31:48
that' s also a pandora box. I would say in the sense that
31:52
they have the same properties very similar to shell lytic. These are not really,
31:59
especially speaking of hard indelible materials that have not been studied by archaeologists simply
32:06
because they are organos, that is, they are part of the human body.
32:10
Then they have referred to the information of dentists, dentists, dental anthropologists,
32:20
which is often of direct relevance to the cultural sphere. Just think not
32:25
only about the diet that promotes certain forms of wear, degrees of wear,
32:31
also the traxiology, but also the dental modifications, the dental interventions that you
32:38
will be able to recognize simply by the traces that leave under elus in the
32:46
electronic microscopy and that we can reproduce Up to what type of instruments were used,
32:54
who were the practitioners, What were the traditions, for example, of
32:59
the orations, the inlays. It is something that is really fascinating and we
33:05
can understand through archeological approaches and techniques, not only of dental anthropology, but
33:12
also of the embedded materials that, for example, in South America we know
33:16
that they also existed of stones and above all metals, gold so recognized for
33:23
Ecuador, for example, emeralds or jadeites, the origin of the sealers used
33:30
as cement glue. All of these are questions that we can also pose archaeological
33:43
remains, that is, the material culture ritual sets of offerings, but also
33:49
to the teeth. If we' re going to talk about databases, because
33:54
you have one of the most robust bi- archological databases on the continent,
34:00
you could explain to us the importance of this database at the continental level.
34:09
Well, it' s not really a single basis, but it' s
34:14
increased a lot of information, of own projects, of collaboration projects, of
34:22
other people' s projects, but always mentioned, obviously that we thought it
34:30
was possible to homologate then. Yes, this gathers data from populations that we
34:35
can then compare with each other. I think it is increasingly interesting, and
34:39
not only interesting, but important scientifically to have those interregional databases, because we
34:45
can use many criteria such as sexuo, age, obviously, all egocentric and
34:52
Marian pathologies, as this goes away, but also cultural ones. No.
34:58
I think it is increasingly important to incorporate data to have a vision that goes
35:07
beyond the area. Just speaking of mobility and account of it, it gives
35:14
a recent publication by Kenned that documents that there is a reflux of people from
35:22
South America, right from Colombia, Ecuador, Central America, in the population
35:30
of the Maya area. We' ve been talking about this for eight or
35:34
seven thousand years, so who could have thought about that? But it could
35:37
be reconstructed from genetics and from the linguistic question and corn, certainly because those
35:43
were those who apparently carried corn species that were orion said from South America,
35:49
from the other part of Tehuacán. So I think this would be a responsibility,
35:58
but there' s every country or it' s handled differently. I
36:01
would expand that responsibility, which I feel to all kinds of inventories, but
36:08
well, it' s a reality that hasn' t been presented yet.
36:13
There are also many efforts to prevent it. I am just very sorry that
36:19
my own country is the efforts that say no, this has to stay in
36:24
the institution, or this has to stay in the country and is actually hindering
36:30
scientific progress. I also understand why it' s done, because there'
36:38
s kind of, it' s a question, but it has to be
36:42
published. I think I' m very proactive that it has to be published.
36:45
It has to do with information circulating there, obviously under ethnically sustained criteria,
36:52
right, but not doing anything. I don' t think it'
36:59
s worth it if it' s there if you don' t share scientific
37:06
information, because we' re definitely not going to move forward. Moreover,
37:07
given that in the past, thousands of years ago, since it was not
37:12
Mexico, it was not Colombia, it was not any of these relatively recent
37:17
nations, it was territories distributed in a very different way and we cannot limit
37:25
those data, as well as we have talked about these long- distance relations,
37:30
because we cannot limit it to the current territories of each of our countries.
37:36
I believe that discipline overcomes those border barriers and we must, in one
37:42
way or another, break them by sharing information between us. Yes, and
37:47
there is another very important aspect, is who has the right to be handling
37:52
this data. The question of yes, which is handled differently in each country.
37:59
Not the question. The question of Mexico has been the indigenism that has
38:02
been so strong, not in a matter of segregation, but of integration and
38:07
also of wide recognition of the national diversity that we have. But within this
38:14
diversity, for let' s say, there is no such thing as that
38:21
a population could not study or treat or work, but rather it is a
38:28
matter of dissemination and a shared right in an effort to claim the pride of
38:37
the pre- Hispanic past. And I think that this is going in a
38:38
good direction, because it does not discriminate, not exclude us is segmenting reality
38:49
and it is not an effort that denies reality, real material supported by uduros
38:55
data, which I think in other countries, because it is appearing at a
39:01
secondary level before rights. What can be said about a population if there was
39:07
such and I can prove it with forensic facts and you can' t say
39:13
or have to say worse, you still have to repatriate, it' s
39:16
called, you have to surrender, and that' s even sadder for our
39:22
understanding here in Mexico, in cases that, because it is not so much
39:29
a hierarchical culture with surplus and monumental, that is, a monumental expression.
39:32
And there are the human remains, which are the history that is going to
39:37
materialize the past and bury themselves that way is look. Yeah. In conclusion,
39:45
I would like you to tell us what progress is being made and about
39:52
all the current challenges facing bioarchaeology where discipline is directed. Very good question.
40:01
I think there are several challenges. One is to have a clear head in
40:12
the face of an infinitude of new data, analytical possibilities that have only appeared
40:17
in the last ten years, that we are barely understanding how to navigate.
40:22
That' s one and do this ethically. And another challenge, I feel
40:29
is that the preservation, the dignification of the remains. Much has been said
40:36
about this subject, but at the time of truth or there is no care,
40:39
there is no value, I would say, of these remains and we
40:49
must set up centres of guards, centers that really do not pride our past
40:57
from it. A better way would say those centers that are good let'
41:04
s say museums or heritage records that we still need to see how to find
41:15
the best option that could account for the importance of these remains, which are
41:22
always very true human. If that is a task and finally, as a
41:28
public policy that each state will have to assume that some have advanced in that,
41:36
others have not dared even to discuss the issue, but that is also
41:40
part of our responsibility as scholars of the populations of the past, for it
41:49
was thank you so much for your time, for sharing your knowledge. For
41:54
me it is an honor and, above all, a privilege to converse with
42:00
you. You are an authority, as I said at the beginning, an
42:04
authority on matter on a continental level and I really appreciate it, so just
42:07
mention to our listeners that we will continue to produce scientific content on this podcast.
42:15
The future was yesterday. Thank you very much, thank you and Ama.