Latest / Echoes & Edges / Hidden Enneagram Narratives: Gut Center (Types 8,9,1) with Ro Elliott

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Hidden Enneagram Narratives: Gut Center (Types 8,9,1) with Ro Elliott · Echoes & Edges

• 0:03
  Speaker 1: Hey, it's Patria. If you're noticing a desire to understand
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: yourself and your patterns more deeply, or want to feel
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: more grounded, more at home in your own life, I
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: want to invite you into something I'm offering. On June thirteen,
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: I'll be hosting a live workshop called Coming Home to Yourself,
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: a Journey into Secure Belonging. This is a space where
• 0:29
  Speaker 1: we'll gently explore what it means to move out of
• 0:33
  Speaker 1: survival patterns and into a more secure, connected way of
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: relating to yourself and to others. It's not about fixing yourself,
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: that's for sure. It's more about understanding what shaped us
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: and learning how to come back to who we are
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: so that our connections are more solid and stable. The
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: workshop is eighty nine dollars, with an expanded option available
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: for those who want to take a deeper dive, and
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: if you register before May twenty eight, you'll automatically receive
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: a discount of ten percent. If you'd like to join us,
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: you can find all the details and register through the
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: link in the show notes. I'd love to see you there.
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: Welcome back to Echoes and Edges, the Broken and Beautiful Podcast.
• 1:31
  Speaker 2: I'm Patria.
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: And this space is where we explore the stories that
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: shape us, the patterns that form us, and the healing
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: that helps us come home to ourselves. In the last
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: few episodes, Daniel Heron and I have been talking about shame, secrecy,
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: and the hidden narratives that shape the way we see
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: ourselves and move through the world. We talked about how
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: certain parts of us get pushed underground through shame, through survive,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: through the need to belong, and how healing begins as
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: those buried parts.
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  Speaker 2: Are named with compassion.
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  Speaker 1: And that's part of why this next conversation matters so much,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: because once we begin to see what we've been living
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  Speaker 1: inside those patterns we didn't consciously choose, the next question becomes,
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: what are those patterns actually doing? How do they organize
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  Speaker 1: the way we respond to stress, to relationships, to conflict,
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: to love, and to leadership. And this is where at
• 2:35
  Speaker 1: least it's one place where the enneagram can become really helpful.
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: It's not a labeling system. We don't use it to
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  Speaker 1: box us in, but rather to give us compassionate maps
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  Speaker 1: nine maps or twenty seven maps if you're working with
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  Speaker 1: subtypes of.
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  Speaker 2: How we learned to survive.
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  Speaker 1: So today I'm joined by Roe Elliott and to get
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: we're exploring the three centers of intelligence in the enneagram,
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  Speaker 1: the gut center, the heart center, and the head center,
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  Speaker 1: and how each one holds both a survival strategy and
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  Speaker 1: a deeper longing which is seeking, thriving and abundance. Roe,
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  Speaker 1: I'm so glad you're here. Thank you again for coming.
• 3:30
  Speaker 3: Oh, it's always a joy to be with you and
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  Speaker 3: to talk about the Enneagram.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, something we're both really passionate about, right, yes, yeah, yeah, Well,
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  Speaker 1: before we dive into specific types, give us an idea
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  Speaker 1: of how you understand what the gut center itself represents
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  Speaker 1: in the Enneagram.
• 3:53
  Speaker 3: So when I think about the gut center, it is
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  Speaker 3: they are embodied people.
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  Speaker 4: They feel in their body.
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  Speaker 3: They feel wisdom in their body before their mind can
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  Speaker 3: actually tell them what they know. Autonomy is very big
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  Speaker 3: for the gut triad. And I think about instinct control
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  Speaker 3: and anger are parts of how the gut center moves
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  Speaker 3: through life. They navigate through power and boundaries and independence.
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  Speaker 3: They know in their body more than any than the
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  Speaker 3: other two tryads for sure.
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  Speaker 1: Let's talk about anger as an instinctual energy, not just aggression.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: But how does it show up in each of the
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  Speaker 1: numbers in the gut triad.
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  Speaker 3: So when I think about what anger is for each one,
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  Speaker 3: anger for an eight is very energizing. It's kind of
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  Speaker 3: it's what they use to take action. They're very comfortable
• 5:02
  Speaker 3: with anger. They move toward conflict. They they are okay
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  Speaker 3: with expressing anger. You as a nine know that nines
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  Speaker 3: are not comfortable with anger, and they they're in the
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  Speaker 3: anger triad, but a lot of times they don't even
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  Speaker 3: know they're angry because they have to numb that to
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  Speaker 3: keep themselves feeling at peace inside. And ones are more
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  Speaker 3: They internalize it, they turn in It turns inward on
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  Speaker 3: them and it becomes like self improvement or discipline. And
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  Speaker 3: ones can be uncomfortable with anger because it seems bad
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  Speaker 3: and their desire is to be good.
• 5:54
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and sometimes maybe we can talk about even how
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: culture kind of response to those different types of expressions
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  Speaker 1: of anger. So maybe that's for another episode, but that's
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  Speaker 1: something to really think about. And I hear you saying
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  Speaker 1: that there's like a hidden narrative, like you brought that
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  Speaker 1: up and you know you didn't say those words, but
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  Speaker 1: it's a hidden narrative for eight nines, and ones around
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  Speaker 1: power and control, chaos and order. Let's talk about or
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  Speaker 1: what are your thoughts, how have you come to understand
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  Speaker 1: even if you just think out loud, what are the
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  Speaker 1: hidden narratives that shape each of these types and how
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  Speaker 1: they interact with power and control? And you might think
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: about survival strategies or protection or numbing or merging or
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  Speaker 1: things like that.
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  Speaker 3: They don't necessarily want to be in control. They get
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: a bad wrap that they're controlling. But what a to
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  Speaker 3: do is when there is chaos, if there's not going
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  Speaker 3: to be anybody to bring order to a situation, they
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  Speaker 3: are very very comfortable to quote unquote to take control
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  Speaker 3: to bring order to the chaos.
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  Speaker 4: They will use.
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  Speaker 3: Their power and it can be very positive. But again,
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: I think sometimes people think HS have to be in control.
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  Speaker 3: They don't mind if somebody else is in charge. They
• 7:27
  Speaker 3: just don't like it when nobody's in charge. And so
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  Speaker 3: I think it's their instinct probably from childhood. They had
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  Speaker 3: to gain some control in a situation that was out
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  Speaker 3: of control, so they're very comfortable with it.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: That's really well said. I think of the story of
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: aids often having some version of having to grow up
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  Speaker 1: too early that there wasn't They didn't feel or sense
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  Speaker 1: as a better word for aids. They didn't sense someone
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  Speaker 1: leading the family in a way that they needed.
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  Speaker 2: How about Type nines, they you.
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  Speaker 3: Move away, can disassociate, disconnect, so you don't feel what
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  Speaker 3: is inside you. And I think a lot of times
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  Speaker 3: you can talk to nines about being angry and that
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  Speaker 3: go I'm not angry.
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  Speaker 4: What I mean, how do you feel that inside you?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, that thinking about this through that lens of like hidden,
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  Speaker 1: a hidden even to myself. You know, when we talk
• 8:39
  Speaker 1: about hidden, we're not talking about the type knows exactly
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: what's happening. It's it's just this kind of subconscious driver.
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  Speaker 1: And for Type nines, I think that power and control
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: and chaos and order variation, or the way that it
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  Speaker 1: varies with Type nines, particularly next to Type aids, is
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: that that withdrawal, like you said, the moving away from
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: instead of going toward. I'm a Type nine who identifies
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: with all of it, So this this question is always
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: a little bit confusing to me. I grew up with
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: two Type seven's, a Type eight, a Type one, and
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: a Type two in my family of origin, So you know,
• 9:26
  Speaker 1: you can hear all of the energy tends to reside
• 9:28
  Speaker 1: at the top of the enneagram, you know diagram, and
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: so as literally right in the middle of all of that.
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: As the Type nine peacemaker, I actually adapted with strategies
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: of becoming adapting to what was required of each of
• 9:48
  Speaker 1: these very energetic types, so I can look quite energetic.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: I had to come to the conclusion inside of myself
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: that I was actually withdrawing, and I know other type
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: nines that would describe that. Typically what you see with
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: type nines is kind of a numbing, a withdrawal from
• 10:08
  Speaker 1: conflict in the room. And I do hard withdraw from conflict,
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: but not with my body, because that's just not how
• 10:17
  Speaker 1: I was formed. But that's how I control it is.
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  Speaker 1: I stay, I absorb the conflict into my belly button,
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  Speaker 1: and then I bring peace, whether it's through mediating words
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: or trying to help everyone see everyone else's side, or
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: we're just remembering out loud what the other person's story is,
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: you know.
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  Speaker 2: So this is how that shows up for me.
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  Speaker 4: I don't know all nine to like this.
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  Speaker 3: My husband's and nine he's in the room, yep, but
• 10:50
  Speaker 3: he's not in the conflict.
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  Speaker 2: That's it.
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  Speaker 4: Don't get up. He doesn't get up and leave.
• 10:56
  Speaker 3: He's in the room, right, but he's not in the conflict.
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: Yes, that is I can so relate to that, and
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  Speaker 1: I think a lot of nines can relate to physically moving,
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  Speaker 1: but not always because there is a sleepiness to self.
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  Speaker 1: You know, it takes an awakeness to get up and leave.
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  Speaker 1: And that feels really familiar to me. In fact, I
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: would go toward conflict to be in the room, but
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  Speaker 1: not part of the conflict. It was to enact peace, peacemaking, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and mediation. So moving on to type ones thinking about
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: survival strategies and this sort of hidden narrative. And you
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  Speaker 1: mentioned earlier that conflict thinking that ones have a conflict
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  Speaker 1: with anger itself. Anger itself is bad. Well, nines do too,
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  Speaker 1: I guess. But ones have a judgment. I guess that's
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: a better way to say it. Not ones have a
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  Speaker 1: judgment with anger, but anger is bad. And because their
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  Speaker 1: motive is about being good, how do you see this
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  Speaker 1: hidden narrative showing up for type ones?
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  Speaker 3: The way I view it is like they almost turn
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  Speaker 3: it in on themselves. They don't know that they're turning
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  Speaker 3: it in on themselves because they're not going to. They
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  Speaker 3: don't think it's good to express it out, so they
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  Speaker 3: turn it in. They repress it, and repressed anger a
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  Speaker 3: lot of times is frustration or bitterness, resentment, but they
• 12:28
  Speaker 3: won't call that. You can say, you know, you look
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  Speaker 3: or feel a little angry, what's wrong, and they'll go,
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  Speaker 3: I'm not angry, I'm just a little frustrated. I'm not angry,
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  Speaker 3: you know, but I just they're not doing what I
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  Speaker 3: think they should do. They won't name those other things
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  Speaker 3: as the root being anger. It's the fruit of anger,
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  Speaker 3: but they have a very hard They're more comfortable naming frustration, resentment,
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  Speaker 3: not comtation, bitterness, irritation, but to name anger, they have
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  Speaker 3: a very hard time going to, no, I'm actually angry,
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  Speaker 3: because then they have to bring that paradox you can
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  Speaker 3: be angry and good together, and that's a hard thing
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  Speaker 3: for them to marry together.
• 13:19
  Speaker 4: You know.
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  Speaker 1: It's so interesting, and I'd like to hear your thoughts
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  Speaker 1: about how that helps them control, you know, because that's
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  Speaker 1: the hidden narrative for all of the body types, for
• 13:34
  Speaker 1: ones you're describing really clearly and cleanly, this dichotomy or
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: this juxtaposition of anger and goodness, and so how does
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: that help them control? And I wouldn't say control the narrative,
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: but maybe control themselves, is what you're saying.
• 13:54
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I think it's very much.
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  Speaker 3: It's a control inside. Have to control my reaction, I
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: have to control my behavior, my thoughts. When you said judgment,
• 14:10
  Speaker 3: they you know that inner critics. We have to kind
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: of bring that into the picture, because, for one, they
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: have that beating all day long, telling them you're not good,
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  Speaker 3: You're not that wasn't good enough, You're not good enough,
• 14:24
  Speaker 3: and so they have that coming at them, and so
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  Speaker 3: I think when they repress anger toward a situation, it's
• 14:34
  Speaker 3: still turned in on them first, and so they want
• 14:38
  Speaker 3: to improve themselves. I got to be better, I've got
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  Speaker 3: to work harder, and then that spills out to controlling
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: their environment. But actually they're controlling themselves first, and then
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: it's spilling out to wanting to bring control to the
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  Speaker 3: people around them, to improve those people or whatever it is.
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  Speaker 3: So it's to me one is very inside out push
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  Speaker 3: and pull for them. It's like it's coming here first
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  Speaker 3: and then it's coming out sometimes like a fury to
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: the people around them.
• 15:14
  Speaker 2: That's so clear what you just said.
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I just wanted you to thank you for finishing that
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  Speaker 1: thought because that was so clear, and I think it
• 15:23
  Speaker 1: is so important for Type ones who are listening to
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: understand this and for people who love type ones, because
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: I do much like aids get a bad rap for
• 15:33
  Speaker 1: their you know, aggression, or like they have to lead,
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: Type ones get a bad rap for being judgmental or
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: critical or this theory can come out, and I think
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: it's always helpful to remember that if if that's coming
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: out from a Type one, the compassionate lens helps us
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: see what they're bearing inside first, and that can bring
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: some really productive conversations because Type ones.
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: Really do have a desire to be good.
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  Speaker 1: They're trying to be good, and it's good to remember
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: that that idea that all of these strategies are trying
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: to help. They're trying to get us back to that
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: place of innocence or that place of love, or that
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: place of perfection. You know that, at least in Biblical language,
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: we think about Eden, or we think about the womb,
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: you know, anything you would want to add as we
• 16:33
  Speaker 1: talk about the genuine ways that these strategies help cope
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: for these types, So thinking of them not as bad
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: necessarily but as their strategies, and there might be bad
• 16:49
  Speaker 1: things that can come relationally, especially as a result of
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: these things. But again the compassionate lens of coping, no.
• 16:59
  Speaker 3: I mean, I think when I think of coping in
• 17:03
  Speaker 3: the positive sense, I think we've talked about this.
• 17:06
  Speaker 4: You mentioned this in the Deeper Wisdom.
• 17:10
  Speaker 3: So how does that coping mechanism turn it to bring goodness?
• 17:16
  Speaker 3: Because there's a way that we've learned, all of us
• 17:20
  Speaker 3: how to quote, maneuver and survive, and the negative size
• 17:26
  Speaker 3: of our survival strategies start working against us.
• 17:30
  Speaker 4: But enneagram wisdom, that's what I love.
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  Speaker 3: It helps us start right citing those so they can
• 17:37
  Speaker 3: start working for us and.
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: For the world around us.
• 17:40
  Speaker 3: Because it's the gift that the eight brings that man,
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: that brings protection, that brings justice, that brings mercy to
• 17:52
  Speaker 3: a situation. That energy is there to work for other people.
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  Speaker 3: And eights will will take up a cause that a
• 18:03
  Speaker 3: lot of us wouldn't naturally do. It wouldn't scare them,
• 18:06
  Speaker 3: They'll step into it. That's where that right anger that
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: they tap into to bring right action.
• 18:15
  Speaker 4: I think when they learn to move from.
• 18:19
  Speaker 3: The gut instinct, which is reactive to a more grounded
• 18:25
  Speaker 3: wisdom that moves at a slower especially for eight and
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: A one, a slower pace, a more grounded action, and
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: they go from reactive to taking that gifting in a slower,
• 18:44
  Speaker 3: more intentional way that doesn't bring harm, that brings goodness
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: to a situation.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so beautiful.
• 18:54
  Speaker 1: I think of the impact that it's naturally have in
• 18:59
  Speaker 1: the world, in their you know, in the people to
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: the people around them that oftentimes, at least in my
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: experience with AIDS, they don't even know naturally, they don't
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: realize it's it's just a it's a natural impact. And
• 19:13
  Speaker 1: so when that like you're describing that slowing down, or
• 19:17
  Speaker 1: when I'm coaching AIDS, I talk about the pause. You know,
• 19:21
  Speaker 1: if you can get a pause in there, then there
• 19:24
  Speaker 1: is this good impact that starts coming just naturally through
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: their centers of intelligence and through their natural their holy
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: idea or the thing they're trying to get to is innocence, mercy,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: you know, and so those naturally start coming through with
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: the slowing What about nines, What would you say about nines?
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: I love the gifting that you brought in there, that idea.
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I think when nines bring their full self through
• 19:57
  Speaker 3: a situation. That's when they're gifting really comes forth because
• 20:04
  Speaker 3: they are carrying peace with it, they are carrying the
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: ability to mediate. They're really an ability to hold difficult
• 20:14
  Speaker 3: situations in a way that other people can't hold of it.
• 20:18
  Speaker 3: And nine has to like embody the full presence to bring.
• 20:23
  Speaker 4: Your power forward.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: And when that happens, that is where you go. A
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: nine goes from being passive peace to active peace maker.
• 20:36
  Speaker 1: I love what you just said there. Yeah, it's not
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: even it's not a big shift. It's passive to active.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: Like the actions don't really change that much, but it's
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: more of the inside awareness, the inside job, and the
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: holy idea for.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: Nine is love. It is love.
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: It's and it's so good for me as a Type
• 20:59
  Speaker 1: nine to remain that that's harmony and love are very
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: connected in the enneagram theory, and it's so good for
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: me to pause for myself as a nine to remember
• 21:13
  Speaker 1: that's what I'm trying to get to. Hey, it's Patria.
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: If you've been listening to this podcast and find yourself
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: recognizing pieces of your own story, the patterns of secrecy
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: or shame, the questions about your worth or purpose, or
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: maybe you see clearly the places that feel stuck. I
• 21:37
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• 21:40
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  Speaker 1: to extend a hand to others, to you, the person
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  Speaker 1: thinking about checking this out. You are not alone in
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  Speaker 1: this reach out. There is a way forward. And so
• 23:27
  Speaker 1: how about type ones? What would you say about type ones?
• 23:31
  Speaker 3: Well, we need ones because they are the improvers. They see,
• 23:36
  Speaker 3: they see what's wrong. They can see systems and what's
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: wrong and what's lawed in a way that most of
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: us would miss. But when they can do that from
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: a place of grace, from a place of releasing the
• 23:53
  Speaker 3: perfection and to relax the rigidity that they can hold
• 24:02
  Speaker 3: in their bodies and to bring forth their gifting of
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: I know how to make this situation better. I know
• 24:13
  Speaker 3: how to improve this, but it's not with.
• 24:18
  Speaker 4: You know that hard grasp on it.
• 24:20
  Speaker 3: The one ones have a hard time and their growth
• 24:25
  Speaker 3: path is receiving grace for themselves. And when they can
• 24:30
  Speaker 3: receive grace for themselves, that's when they can have grace
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: filled discernment. Yeah, because we can't give away what we
• 24:37
  Speaker 3: don't have. So they want to be filled and learned
• 24:41
  Speaker 3: to receive grace. So as they move out they can
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: have bring that good discernment. But it's wrapped in grace.
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: Mm hmmm. Yes, there's a contraction and a relaxation, and
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: so the virtue is serenity, but the holy idea is
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: actually perfection. So ones kind of inherently understand that the
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: world is imperfect and wrong. Like you said, they see
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: what's wrong with the world, and the contraction is that
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: bodily anger response to what's wrong right, and so that
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: release that rest in the interest of time. I'm going
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: to just say quickly that nature tends to be helpful
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: for a lot of different types, for a lot of
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: different reasons. But for Type ones, I see it helpful
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: because it's the bigness that gives them perspective of what
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: perfection is and how to be held within something bigger
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: than themselves. And I see that frequently with Type ones
• 25:52
  Speaker 1: and ro. What does healthy gut centered leadership look like.
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: I think about it being in the embodied embody, groundedness
• 26:04
  Speaker 3: where they now lead but don't control, where they provide
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: space for us, for all people to come and be
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: part of the greater good. So I again I think
• 26:20
  Speaker 3: eight they are actually very good at empowering other people
• 26:24
  Speaker 3: as well. They bring power, and I think it calls
• 26:27
  Speaker 3: out strength in other people. I think a healthy eight
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: leader you feel safe with them, You feel safe to
• 26:35
  Speaker 3: risk and to move forward when at eight is in
• 26:39
  Speaker 3: that healthy space nine leaders, Patria.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna if it's gonna make you uncomfortable, all right,
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: I'm ready to squirm.
• 26:50
  Speaker 3: Okay, because you are nine and you lead, you lead
• 26:54
  Speaker 3: this space so so well.
• 26:58
  Speaker 4: A healthy nine.
• 27:01
  Speaker 3: Makes room for everybody, and everybody has a voice. You
• 27:07
  Speaker 3: don't have to be in the center, but you lead.
• 27:14
  Speaker 3: It's not again, it's not that passive. You have a
• 27:18
  Speaker 3: leadership that calls us all forward, that cause us all to.
• 27:23
  Speaker 4: Upward.
• 27:25
  Speaker 3: But it's a collective, as you have called part of
• 27:28
  Speaker 3: what I'm part of of the collective. So I get
• 27:32
  Speaker 3: to experience you as a very healthy.
• 27:35
  Speaker 4: Nine leader, and I think that's why people like working
• 27:41
  Speaker 4: for nines.
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: What a gift your words are, thank you.
• 27:45
  Speaker 4: You know.
• 27:45
  Speaker 3: Ones are just that great principle. They bring excellence in
• 27:49
  Speaker 3: leadership their integrity. I think when they walk in gentle integrity,
• 27:57
  Speaker 3: it just naturally brings everybody up. Everybody wants to walk
• 28:03
  Speaker 3: in that kind of let excellent and integrity. That's what
• 28:07
  Speaker 3: ones can call a group two in a beautiful way
• 28:10
  Speaker 3: when they're walking in their gifting.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and then there's self grace, right that reception of grace.
• 28:21
  Speaker 3: So I think about instead of power, its presence instead
• 28:25
  Speaker 3: of control, it's trust instead of instinct, it's wisdom.
• 28:31
  Speaker 4: That's the shift that they go through.
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: Can you say that just one more time for listeners.
• 28:38
  Speaker 3: So instead of power, it's present instead of control, it's
• 28:45
  Speaker 3: trust instead of instinct, it's wisdom.
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Well, let's end right there on this segment, because that
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: is a beautiful ending, And there is just something so
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: important here that beneath what can look like anger, controller avoidance,
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: there's that deeper longing that you're naming what we're trying
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: to get to through these things that aren't working so
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: well anymore. So we're looking for wisdom, we're looking for trust,
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: we're looking for strength.
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: Was that the other one that you said, strength presence?
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: Obviously I'm in the body center because I forget it
• 29:34
  Speaker 1: just as.
• 29:34
  Speaker 2: Fast as I hear it. Yes, well, thank you Roe.
• 29:41
  Speaker 1: So in this first conversation, we've been looking at the
• 29:44
  Speaker 1: gut center, the place in us that responds instinctively, often
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: before we even have words. But for many people, the
• 29:52
  Speaker 1: deeper struggle isn't first about power and control.
• 29:56
  Speaker 2: It's about worth.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: It's about love, about whether we will be seen and
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: still belong. So in this next episode, we're turning toward
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: the Hearts Center. If this episode resonates with you, follow
• 30:14
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• 30:18
  Speaker 1: leave a five star review, and share with a friend
• 30:21
  Speaker 1: who might need a gentle invitation to self understanding. Echoes
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: and Edges is produced and edited by Stephen R. Sanders.
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: Music promoted by Vado. Echoes and Edges is part of
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: the Vivid Livid podcast network, where bruses speak and healing
• 30:37
  Speaker 1: finds its voice.