Transcript

Sharri | 8 September · Sharri

0:07
Speaker 1: Thanks, James.
0:07
Speaker 2: Good evening.
0:08
Speaker 3: Tonight, the Albanese government was warned its tax changes would
0:12
Speaker 3: push up rents and cut housing supply.
0:15
Speaker 2: It did it anyway.
0:17
Speaker 3: Tonight, I'll show you what Treasury told them before they
0:20
Speaker 3: went ahead. And a fierce debate is erupting over Warren
0:24
Speaker 3: Pickering's past illicit drug use. Should One Nation be defending this?
0:29
Speaker 3: I'll ask Jacinta Nampajimpa-Price. And the mushroom killer getting taxpayer-funded
0:35
Speaker 3: a Zempik in prison, well, how she qualified for this.
0:39
Speaker 2: And why you're paying for it.
0:41
Speaker 3: But first, the Albanese government was warned that its controversial
0:45
Speaker 3: tax changes would put downward pressure on house prices, that
0:49
Speaker 3: it would also increase rents and reduce supply.
0:53
Speaker 2: This in the official advice from the Treasury before the budget.
0:57
Speaker 3: This right here, this heavily redacted document released under Freedom
1:02
Speaker 3: of Information laws, reveals the true advice the Albanese government
1:06
Speaker 3: was given about the impact of its tax changes on
1:10
Speaker 3: the housing market. It states that it would modestly lower
1:15
Speaker 3: housing supply and housing costs for investors, are estimated to
1:19
Speaker 3: place modest upward pressure on rents, It says rents are
1:24
Speaker 3: expected to be a quarter of a percent higher and
1:26
Speaker 3: increase soon after the negative gearing policy commences. So that
1:32
Speaker 3: admission in these documents, this Treasury advice, they knew it
1:35
Speaker 3: was going to increase rents and reduce housing supply. But
1:41
Speaker 3: Treasury underestimated just how deep the impact would be on supply,
1:46
Speaker 3: rents too, and the fall in house prices. Now look
1:50
Speaker 3: at this line in the Treasury advice. It states the
1:53
Speaker 3: reduction in investor demand for housing is expected to lead
1:58
Speaker 3: to a modest and temporary slowing in housing price growth.
2:02
Speaker 3: Most of the impact is expected to occur soon.
2:06
Speaker 2: After the announcement.
2:09
Speaker 3: Well, you'd have to say that is just plain wrong
2:12
Speaker 3: because the impact has been anything but modest. And four
2:16
Speaker 3: months on from the budget, the impacts are only growing.
2:20
Speaker 3: with the big banks revising their forecasts to predict greater
2:24
Speaker 3: falls in property values. And this, by the way, is
2:29
Speaker 3: only what the government chose to release of the modelling
2:33
Speaker 3: in the redacted version of the document. I mean, have
2:36
Speaker 3: a look at this. As you can see, most of
2:39
Speaker 3: it is blacked out. The document was first reported by
2:44
Speaker 3: the Fin Review, but it's not clear who submitted the
2:47
Speaker 3: Freedom of Information. The opposition questioned the government today on
2:51
Speaker 3: housing supply during question time.
2:54
Speaker 4: Since Labor's budget, 421 New South Wales building companies have
3:00
Speaker 4: gone broke, including Bathler Group, risking 14,000 affordable homes and apartments.
3:09
Speaker 4: Does the Prime Minister agree or disagree with Premier Minns?
3:14
Speaker 1: I'll give a few facts.
3:16
Speaker 5: One.
3:17
Speaker 6: The latest ABS data shows that under this Labor government,
3:20
Speaker 6: the total value of housing in Australia has gone from
3:23
Speaker 6: $ 10. 1 trillion to $ 12. 7 trillion, an increase of some 26%
3:28
Speaker 6: in just four years.
3:32
Speaker 3: There's no question the government, and in particular the Housing Minister,
3:36
Speaker 3: Claire O'Neill, is under fire for why Treasury and why
3:40
Speaker 3: the government, the best economic brains in the country, why
3:43
Speaker 3: they failed... to predict this collapse in house prices. We
3:48
Speaker 3: know they were won by Treasury. We've got the modelling.
3:51
Speaker 3: But the modelling also got the extent of the impact
3:54
Speaker 3: badly wrong. Well, Claire O'Neill was asked about this at
3:58
Speaker 3: the Fin Review Property Summit this morning.
4:00
Speaker 2: Here's her bizarre excuse.
4:03
Speaker 3: She said what the modelling showed was that taken alone,
4:06
Speaker 3: the isolated effect of those tax changes would be a
4:09
Speaker 3: slight cooling effect on house price growth. I'm not denying
4:14
Speaker 3: what's happening with house prices at the moment in Australia,
4:18
Speaker 3: but the biggest driver of what happens to house prices
4:20
Speaker 3: in our country is interest rates. So what she's trying
4:25
Speaker 3: to say there is that the housing crash is not
4:27
Speaker 3: because of their controversial tax hikes on negative gearing and
4:30
Speaker 3: capital gains tax, but because of the interest rate rises. Now,
4:35
Speaker 3: if what she's saying is true, that Treasury didn't take
4:39
Speaker 3: into account other economic factors like interest rate rises and
4:43
Speaker 3: and high inflation, then this is a serious failing in
4:48
Speaker 3: the Treasury Department.
4:49
Speaker 2: It's scandalous.
4:51
Speaker 3: And I'll ask former Treasury Assistant Secretary David Pearl what
4:55
Speaker 3: he thinks about this failure later in the program. But
4:59
Speaker 3: Claire O'Neill also claims that this was just not a
5:02
Speaker 3: big deal and that they were upfront about all of
5:05
Speaker 3: this in the budget.
5:07
Speaker 7: House prices are softening across the country, Speaker. This is
5:10
Speaker 7: the fourth time that we have seen this occur in
5:13
Speaker 7: a decade in our country. Now, I'm asked about the
5:16
Speaker 7: role that the tax changes have played in this, and, Speaker,
5:19
Speaker 7: the government could not have been more transparent about this
5:22
Speaker 7: in the federal budget.
5:25
Speaker 3: Now, Real Estate Australia Chair Hamish McLennan said this was
5:28
Speaker 3: simply not the case. I asked him about this on
5:31
Speaker 3: the show last night, about those specific comments of Claire O'Neill.
5:34
Speaker 2: Here's what he said.
5:36
Speaker 8: I beg to differ with the Minister. So I think
5:39
Speaker 8: we're seeing... A huge change in terms of confidence. The
5:43
Speaker 8: goalposts have been moved. And don't forget, governments are going
5:46
Speaker 8: to earn less in terms of tax revenue if houses
5:49
Speaker 8: aren't getting turned over. So I do beg to differ.
5:52
Speaker 3: And as Hamish also pointed out, there are fewer first
5:56
Speaker 3: homebuyers entering the market.
5:58
Speaker 2: And here's the proof.
6:00
Speaker 3: That fewer first home buyers are actually able to get
6:03
Speaker 3: a foot into their new first home.
6:06
Speaker 2: These New South Wales government.
6:07
Speaker 3: Figures show that there's 30 percent fewer first home buyer
6:11
Speaker 3: stamp duty exemptions being handed out compared to the previous year.
6:15
Speaker 3: 30 percent fewer. And added to this, the reverberations across
6:20
Speaker 3: the construction industry, the economy, the banks, through to self-funded
6:25
Speaker 3: retirees who rely on dividends. Not to mention the crash
6:30
Speaker 3: in stamp duty revenue, which will then impact on the
6:33
Speaker 3: state government's ability to provide other services. Now, in New
6:38
Speaker 3: South Wales alone, and this is happening right across the country,
6:40
Speaker 3: but in New South Wales alone, the property market collapse
6:44
Speaker 3: wiped $ 200 million from stamp duty coffers. And it's going
6:53
Speaker 3: to be a similar picture across the country. Revenue will
6:56
Speaker 3: be falling everywhere. The Albanese government's tax policy has backfired
7:01
Speaker 3: on all fronts. House prices are lower. Housing supply is less.
7:08
Speaker 3: Fewer young buyers are getting into the market.
7:12
Speaker 2: And rents have gone up. Well, this is an own
7:16
Speaker 2: goal if I ever saw one.
7:24
Speaker 3: I'll come back to that later with the long-term Treasury
7:27
Speaker 3: Assistant Secretary, David Pearl. But let's look at some other
7:30
Speaker 3: headlines now. And Victorian taxpayers have been shocked to find
7:34
Speaker 3: out that they're paying for the mushroom killer's weight loss journey.
7:38
Speaker 3: The Herald Sun reveals taxpayers will be paying for Erin
7:40
Speaker 3: Paterson's Zempic jabs while she serves life behind bars. Joining
7:46
Speaker 3: me now, former Labor State Secretary Cameron Milner and News24
7:49
Speaker 3: host Steve Price.
7:51
Speaker 2: Great to see you both.
7:53
Speaker 3: Look, Steve, a lot of people would like to take
7:55
Speaker 3: this medication, but they just can't afford it because it's
7:58
Speaker 3: too expensive. Erin Patterson killed three people. So, you know,
8:03
Speaker 3: why should Victorian taxpayers fund this?
8:06
Speaker 2: But also, how does she qualify for it?
8:10
Speaker 9: Well, we shouldn't be paying for it. I mean, for
8:13
Speaker 9: goodness sake, this woman's wealthy. I mean, she's had several
8:16
Speaker 9: inheritances in her life, including a purchase of a $ 2
8:20
Speaker 9: million house. which admittedly the courts have now said she
8:23
Speaker 9: can't sell. But I mean, she's got money. So why
8:27
Speaker 9: would the taxpayer be paying for her weight loss journey?
8:31
Speaker 9: And this is a woman who murdered three people and
8:34
Speaker 9: she's a self-confessed binge eater. I mean, the talkback calls
8:39
Speaker 9: on talkback radio in Melbourne today were absolutely smashed with
8:43
Speaker 9: people in really tough circumstances who can't afford those drugs
8:49
Speaker 9: and they need them for medical purposes. They're not triple murderers.
8:52
Speaker 9: They're just people in some cases with young children who
8:56
Speaker 9: can't afford those drugs to fight diabetes, for example. So
9:00
Speaker 9: it's beyond anyone's belief. Why the prison system would be
9:04
Speaker 9: used in this way is just unbelievable.
9:08
Speaker 3: Cameron, I think people get infuriated anyway when they hear
9:12
Speaker 3: that prisoners who've committed crimes are getting tax advantages or
9:19
Speaker 3: other benefits.
9:22
Speaker 10: Well, that's right, Shari. And to your point, Steve, I mean,
9:24
Speaker 10: I think it makes an absolute mockery of our justice system,
9:27
Speaker 10: absolute mockery that people would be able to get access
9:30
Speaker 10: to these things. I mean, for goodness sake, jails are
9:32
Speaker 10: not a holiday camp for fat criminals. That's the reality.
9:35
Speaker 10: I mean, these are places for punishment, for people who've
9:39
Speaker 10: murdered three people to actually go away for a very
9:41
Speaker 10: long time and live a horrible life. I mean, that's
9:44
Speaker 10: the punishment for the crime. not to go to a
9:46
Speaker 10: holiday farm, stay off the beef wellington and get slim.
9:49
Speaker 10: I mean, that's the crazy part about this. And to
9:51
Speaker 10: the point before, I mean, why are criminals getting access
9:54
Speaker 10: to this when good, hard-working people out there can't because
9:57
Speaker 10: it's still a very expensive drug?
10:00
Speaker 2: Good point. Good point.
10:02
Speaker 3: I played last night in the program those bombshell comments
10:05
Speaker 3: from the ASIO Director-General, Mike Burgess. He said his urgent
10:08
Speaker 3: warnings on anti-Semitism were underestimated. Effectively, that's what he was saying,
10:13
Speaker 3: by those in leadership positions prior to the Bondi terror attack.
10:17
Speaker 3: Just a reminder, here's what he said.
10:20
Speaker 11: In terms of what I was doing, I was concerned, though,
10:22
Speaker 11: about the trajectory of our threat environment, and I made
10:25
Speaker 11: that known publicly.
10:26
Speaker 1: Of course, it is a.
10:27
Speaker 11: Matter of deep regret that, you know, could I have
10:30
Speaker 11: done more? Perhaps, yes, I could have shouted stronger. But
10:35
Speaker 11: in the end, you know, I would suggest security is
10:38
Speaker 11: a shared responsibility in society, and others actually had to
10:42
Speaker 11: take up that call, either challenge me for more details
10:45
Speaker 11: or take action. And I know as much as I'm
10:49
Speaker 11: critical of this in terms of there is the benefit
10:51
Speaker 11: of hindsight and then there's the handicap of hindsight. You've
10:55
Speaker 11: got to be careful of both in this process.
10:58
Speaker 3: Now, I want to talk about what he said, but
11:00
Speaker 3: I also want to talk about the fact that the
11:02
Speaker 3: Coalition did not press the government on this at all
11:06
Speaker 3: in Parliament either yesterday or today. Bronwyn Bishop was on
11:09
Speaker 3: the show last night and she criticised it.
11:11
Speaker 2: Have a look.
11:13
Speaker 5: I did watch part of Question Time yesterday And I
11:16
Speaker 5: thought it was a huge issue that should have been
11:18
Speaker 5: raised because it bears directly on the moral leadership of
11:24
Speaker 5: the government. They have lost, I think, any right to
11:29
Speaker 5: have the Australian people believe in anything they say at all.
11:34
Speaker 5: And I think that there was an opportunity for the
11:36
Speaker 5: opposition today to ram that point home.
11:38
Speaker 2: And they didn't touch it.
11:39
Speaker 5: And they didn't.
11:41
Speaker 3: Look, Chris Kenny agreed tonight on his show saying it
11:43
Speaker 3: should have been their key focus, their lead question, especially
11:47
Speaker 3: given One Nation surged in support after Bondi.
11:51
Speaker 2: What do you think, Steve?
11:52
Speaker 9: Absolutely. I mean, that interview was extraordinary, what you had,
11:57
Speaker 9: what you got from the ASIO boss. And I, like you,
12:01
Speaker 9: yesterday sat there and watched all the question time. I
12:03
Speaker 9: watched it all again today. There's questions about housing and
12:07
Speaker 9: And there's questions about social media, nothing about, okay, Prime Minister,
12:12
Speaker 9: the head of ASIO said others should have taken his
12:15
Speaker 9: warnings more seriously. Are you one of the others? I mean,
12:19
Speaker 9: that's a simple question. Albanese wouldn't answer it. He'd probably say, look,
12:23
Speaker 9: this is a matter of national security. But the opposition
12:26
Speaker 9: have been weak and pathetic in not taking this up.
12:30
Speaker 9: I mean, who's doing their tactics? I mean, it's just ridiculous.
12:34
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he went further in other comments, which I
12:36
Speaker 3: played last night. I won't replay them now. But, of course,
12:39
Speaker 3: the interview was with Alex Rivchin and I for our book.
12:42
Speaker 2: Bondi Terror.
12:43
Speaker 3: I mean, Cameron, why wouldn't the Coalition press the government
12:46
Speaker 3: on such an incredibly important issue?
12:48
Speaker 2: It really is.
12:50
Speaker 3: It goes to the heart of why Albanese should be
12:53
Speaker 3: called to the Royal Commission.
12:56
Speaker 1: Oh, absolutely.
12:57
Speaker 10: And I think to Steve's point, it was a genuinely
12:59
Speaker 10: brilliant piece of journalism. So to have found that out
13:01
Speaker 10: and have that brought to the public eye is fantastic.
13:03
Speaker 10: But then for the opposition to do nothing with it,
13:05
Speaker 10: I mean, for goodness sake, when is national security not
13:08
Speaker 10: a core issue for the coalition? I mean, Angus Taylor
13:11
Speaker 10: is just terrible. He's Albo's best friend in Parliament. I mean,
13:14
Speaker 10: not to ask those questions on serious matters, not to
13:16
Speaker 10: ask questions about why the Royal Commission has been extended
13:19
Speaker 10: to have ministers of the Crown. actually brought before it. Clearly,
13:23
Speaker 10: Mike Burgess is saying there was a failure of the
13:25
Speaker 10: political leadership of this country on anti-Semitism. The Royal Commission
13:27
Speaker 10: hasn't done the job. So for goodness sake, could the
13:29
Speaker 10: opposition please ask the question in Parliament? I mean, that's
13:32
Speaker 10: the reality, Shari, but an excellent interview and so good
13:34
Speaker 10: that people can see it.
13:36
Speaker 3: No, thank you so much. Well, the full interview is
13:38
Speaker 3: in the book, of course. But Cameron, just before we
13:40
Speaker 3: move on, I just want to pick you up on
13:41
Speaker 3: your comments. I mean, you're saying Angus Taylor is the
13:43
Speaker 3: best friend of Albanese in question time. Do you think,
13:47
Speaker 3: because he has been in the job, you know, just
13:49
Speaker 3: not that long, a few months. Do you think he's
13:52
Speaker 3: going to improve or why do you think it's not
13:55
Speaker 3: working so far?
13:56
Speaker 2: Why do you think people are going to One Nation?
14:00
Speaker 10: Look, Angus Taylor is not going to be a great vintage.
14:02
Speaker 10: I mean, he's a rough red at the best of times.
14:04
Speaker 10: I mean, look, the reality is that this bloke has
14:06
Speaker 10: been in Parliament for a very long time. He undermined
14:09
Speaker 10: and wide-handed Susan Lee, saying he was the best person
14:11
Speaker 10: for the job and has done nothing since. I mean,
14:14
Speaker 10: you know, complete failure. And unfortunately, the country's the worst
14:18
Speaker 10: for it because the country needs a good opposition. It
14:20
Speaker 10: doesn't need just Pauline Hanson. It needs a Liberal Party
14:22
Speaker 10: and a National Party fighting this weak.
14:25
Speaker 9: Terrible Labor government.
14:27
Speaker 3: By the way, I didn't see any sign that he
14:29
Speaker 3: actually did white act, Susan Lee.
14:32
Speaker 2: OK, let's move on.
14:33
Speaker 3: The Victorian Premier, Ben Carroll, is facing a high court
14:36
Speaker 3: challenge over his working from home laws. Now, Jess Wilson
14:40
Speaker 3: was on my show last week and I pressed her
14:42
Speaker 3: on why she wasn't opposing these laws. She said that
14:45
Speaker 3: they were unconstitutional and this is exactly the suggestion that
14:49
Speaker 3: the lawyers are mounting today, Steve.
14:53
Speaker 5: Yeah, they are.
14:54
Speaker 9: And quite rightly, they probably won't survive a High Court challenge.
14:57
Speaker 9: But I will remind everybody that at the end of November, Saturday,
15:01
Speaker 9: November 28, there's a state election in Victoria. All Ben
15:05
Speaker 9: Carroll wants to do is, and the legislation will go
15:07
Speaker 9: to the upper house in Victoria, probably tomorrow, if not Thursday,
15:11
Speaker 9: all Carroll wants to do is to get to November 28,
15:15
Speaker 9: being able to run around the state, telling everyone who
15:17
Speaker 9: wants to work from home in their tracksuit pants, that
15:20
Speaker 9: that's what they're going to be able to do under
15:21
Speaker 9: his government. And no boss will be able to tell
15:24
Speaker 9: you you can't do it. I mean, there's been some
15:27
Speaker 9: amendments put into this legislation. Business community are screaming about
15:32
Speaker 9: how it's so bad for business. They absolutely hate it.
15:36
Speaker 9: But Ben Carroll and Labor, and you've got to go
15:38
Speaker 9: back to the federal election when the work from home
15:43
Speaker 9: debate was raging and Peter Dutton was painted as some
15:48
Speaker 9: bloke who doesn't want to see women in work. Carol
15:51
Speaker 9: and his mates are going to run the same arguments
15:54
Speaker 9: during the state election. This is all about getting re-elected.
15:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, Cameron, I think that's 100% right what Steve says.
16:01
Speaker 3: These are populist policies and very unpopular with business.
16:06
Speaker 2: I really strongly hate these laws.
16:08
Speaker 3: I think it's up to an individual employer and the
16:12
Speaker 3: company they work for to work out whether you work
16:14
Speaker 3: from home or not. I think flexible working is very
16:17
Speaker 3: important for mothers in particular so that they can have
16:20
Speaker 3: some time picking the kids up and work. Government should
16:23
Speaker 3: have nothing to do with this. Government should stay out
16:26
Speaker 3: of it. So, you know, but it's the rise of
16:30
Speaker 3: these populist policies and, you know, we're seeing it with
16:32
Speaker 3: superannuation as well with One Nation.
16:36
Speaker 10: And let's also say working fathers should also be picking
16:39
Speaker 10: up their children from school and working from home if
16:41
Speaker 10: they're flexible hours.
16:42
Speaker 5: That's true. That's true. Thanks.
16:44
Speaker 2: Thank you for pulling me up on that. Thank you
16:46
Speaker 2: for pulling me up on that.
16:47
Speaker 10: Not at all, Shari, not at all. No, but look,
16:50
Speaker 10: I'm also appalled by this whole sort of, you know,
16:52
Speaker 10: public servants in pyjamas, basically, you know, getting away with
16:55
Speaker 10: sort of sleeping their day and then basically setting up
16:58
Speaker 10: on a Teams call. So, no, I mean, I think
17:00
Speaker 10: work from home is a huge problem. But to Steve's point,
17:02
Speaker 10: it's classic wedge politics. I mean, Labor's just seeing it up.
17:05
Speaker 10: I mean, Labor will wedge Jess Wilson on saying she's anti-worker,
17:08
Speaker 10: anti-worker right through the 28th of November. It's a campaign
17:11
Speaker 10: tactic rather than an economic plan.
17:14
Speaker 2: All right, let's finish off.
17:15
Speaker 3: With this Barnaby Joyce interview on the ABC last night.
17:19
Speaker 3: I mean, every time it goes on the ABC, it
17:21
Speaker 3: makes the news, it goes viral.
17:23
Speaker 2: Have a look at this. Barnaby Joyce, welcome to 7.30.
17:27
Speaker 8: It's an absolute welcome to be here.
17:31
Speaker 3: But we would expect you as the Treasury spokesman for
17:35
Speaker 3: that party to be across.
17:36
Speaker 1: The Treasury spokesman, not Jesus Christ. I mean, you have
17:39
Speaker 1: to actually give me the.
17:40
Speaker 5: Details of these things.
17:41
Speaker 12: Here we go.
17:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, Steve, what did you think of the interview?
17:47
Speaker 9: He's such a good retail politician, Barnaby. I mean, he
17:50
Speaker 9: stands out and he's on the ABC. Normally no-one else
17:53
Speaker 9: would see that. You know, the small audience of the
17:55
Speaker 9: ABC would see it, sure. But because Barnaby put on
17:58
Speaker 9: such a great show, every commercial TV network, News 24,
18:03
Speaker 9: we've been playing it all day long, and it just
18:06
Speaker 9: makes the people who are vaguely interested in voting for
18:10
Speaker 9: One Nation, and there are many millions of them, they go...
18:13
Speaker 9: How good was Barnaby belting up the ABC last night
18:17
Speaker 9: on that interview on the 7.30 report? Look, he's eccentric,
18:22
Speaker 9: but he's very clever and a very good retail politician.
18:26
Speaker 2: Do you agree with that, Cameron?
18:27
Speaker 3: Do you think people would look at him and say, oh,
18:29
Speaker 3: that's a serious person I want as Prime Minister or
18:32
Speaker 3: Deputy Prime Minister?
18:35
Speaker 10: Well, no, I think to Steve's point, I mean, Barnaby's
18:37
Speaker 10: been in politics for a long time. He knows what
18:40
Speaker 10: he's doing. He's very good on camera. And to go
18:42
Speaker 10: into the lion's den of Sarah Ferg in the 7.30
18:45
Speaker 10: report and still walk out a winner, I mean, that's
18:47
Speaker 10: Barnaby all over.
18:49
Speaker 3: Well, I just want to quickly ask you about the
18:51
Speaker 3: superannuation policy, though, specifically, which was the actual subject of
18:54
Speaker 3: the interview. Steve, do you think it is a fair
18:58
Speaker 3: policy to have super, you know, to allow people to
19:01
Speaker 3: dip into their super now to be able to buy
19:04
Speaker 3: a house?
19:05
Speaker 9: Look, I'm pleased I never had to dip into my
19:07
Speaker 9: super to go and buy a house.
19:08
Speaker 1: Yeah.
19:09
Speaker 9: But when you go into an election and you're representing
19:13
Speaker 9: one nation and you have Pauline and Barnaby going around saying,
19:17
Speaker 9: we want to help people who are sleeping rough in
19:19
Speaker 9: their cars, can't afford to pay their rent, can't afford
19:22
Speaker 9: to get a decent meal on the table, then for
19:24
Speaker 9: three years they should be able to take some of
19:26
Speaker 9: their super out so that they don't live like that.
19:29
Speaker 9: I think that's a vote winner for One Nation, and
19:31
Speaker 9: that's exactly why they're doing it. I mean, it is individuals' money.
19:37
Speaker 9: It's not the government money. And don't forget, Labor invented superannuation,
19:42
Speaker 9: and yes, it's worked well for a lot of people,
19:44
Speaker 9: but it's also worked very well for the union movement,
19:47
Speaker 9: and for the union's relationship with the Labor Party.
19:50
Speaker 3: I just think it's causing a problem later to fix
19:54
Speaker 3: a problem that Labor created with its tax hikes.
19:58
Speaker 2: Cameron, what do you think?
20:01
Speaker 10: Well, I think so. But the interesting thing here is
20:03
Speaker 10: that super is going to be contested in 2028. I mean,
20:05
Speaker 10: you're going to have Labor and the union movement on
20:06
Speaker 10: one side saying, you know, just keep on giving this
20:09
Speaker 10: sort of endless rivers of gold to something that you
20:12
Speaker 10: might get in 45 years' time. And you're going to
20:13
Speaker 10: have Pauline Hanson, to your point, Steve, out there with
20:16
Speaker 10: a very populist idea. And for goodness sake, wasn't the paper,
20:18
Speaker 10: weren't the papers interesting today? Angus Taylor's been sitting on
20:21
Speaker 10: this same plan for four months and hasn't even announced
20:23
Speaker 10: anything yet. So the coalition's apparently got some idea on
20:25
Speaker 10: super as well. So I think it's going to be contested.
20:28
Speaker 10: And Hanson is outsmarting both sides of politics at the moment,
20:31
Speaker 10: announcing new policies.
20:34
Speaker 2: Just a quick prediction. Cameron, if you can give one,
20:36
Speaker 2: what's going to happen at the next election?
20:41
Speaker 10: The next federal election, I think Labor still wins.
20:45
Speaker 3: Even with the rise in One Nation, even if you put,
20:48
Speaker 3: you know, the primary for both the Liberals and One
20:50
Speaker 3: Nation together.
20:51
Speaker 2: It's about 50%.
20:51
Speaker 3: You don't think it's going to.
20:53
Speaker 2: Play out like that?
20:56
Speaker 10: It's still not enough. It's still not enough.
20:58
Speaker 2: Steve, what do you think?
21:00
Speaker 3: I mean, One Nation's equal at the moment, but it's
21:03
Speaker 3: really settled around that 30% in the primary support in
21:08
Speaker 3: the polls.
21:09
Speaker 9: Yeah, the election's a long way away, so a lot
21:12
Speaker 9: of things can happen. A lot of the One Nation
21:14
Speaker 9: candidates could fall over. But, I mean, the way that
21:18
Speaker 9: the Albanese government is currently running the country is going
21:21
Speaker 9: to make more people angry, not less people angry, particularly
21:24
Speaker 9: as the economy continues to tank and house prices fall
21:27
Speaker 9: off a cliff. So I think the One Nation support
21:30
Speaker 9: probably will hold up. What it means in terms of seats,
21:33
Speaker 9: I think it's too hard to predict this far out.
21:35
Speaker 5: Yeah.
21:35
Speaker 1: Yeah.
21:36
Speaker 2: All right.
21:37
Speaker 3: Steve Price, Cameron Milner, great to see you. Well, let's
21:40
Speaker 3: stick with that last point that Cameron just made there,
21:43
Speaker 3: that we're reading reports that Angus Taylor or the Coalition
21:47
Speaker 3: had a very similar superannuation policy.
21:49
Speaker 2: Now, Under Pauline Hanson's plan.
21:52
Speaker 3: Workers would be able to access 3% of their retirement
21:55
Speaker 3: savings for a maximum of three years. Now, Angus Taylor
21:59
Speaker 3: didn't reject her idea, and the AFR has reported that
22:02
Speaker 3: previous opposition leader Susan Lee planned to announce an almost
22:06
Speaker 3: identical version of this policy before she was.
22:10
Speaker 2: Rolled earlier in the year.
22:12
Speaker 3: Well, let's bring you now to discuss more, Shadow Minister
22:14
Speaker 3: for Skills and Training, Jacinta Nampajimpa-Price.
22:17
Speaker 2: Jacinta, you're in Canberra, of course. Great to see you again.
22:20
Speaker 3: Look, you famously were not close to Susan Lee. You
22:24
Speaker 3: weren't in her shadow cabinet for most of the time.
22:27
Speaker 3: But do you think this is a good policy idea?
22:34
Speaker 12: Well, I suppose we have a new leader now in Angus, obviously,
22:38
Speaker 12: and I don't recall this particular policy being for the
22:41
Speaker 12: short time I was in shadow cabinet positions under Susan
22:45
Speaker 12: Lay's leadership previously. So I suppose I'm interested in what
22:50
Speaker 12: sort of policies we're developing at the moment to go
22:53
Speaker 12: forward with. So I suppose I can't say much to
22:56
Speaker 12: speak to this particular piece of policy, but what I
23:00
Speaker 12: can say is that I know that we do have
23:01
Speaker 12: a plan going forward right across the board, and myself
23:05
Speaker 12: and my shadow Cabinet colleagues are working hard to produce
23:09
Speaker 12: the policies that we need to, you know.
23:13
Speaker 2: protect our way of life.
23:14
Speaker 3: But are you looking at a similar policy to allow
23:17
Speaker 3: people to use their super if needed to buy a house?
23:22
Speaker 12: Well, I don't know. That's not my particular portfolio area, obviously,
23:28
Speaker 12: and for my shadow cabinet colleagues in their particular areas,
23:32
Speaker 12: you'll have to ask them more specifically whether they're considering.
23:35
Speaker 2: That or not.
23:35
Speaker 12: But, yeah, like I said, I wasn't privy to it
23:40
Speaker 12: previously and I'm not across any detail of it currently.
23:43
Speaker 12: All right.
23:44
Speaker 3: The Albanese government says it's going to allow Australians to
23:48
Speaker 3: opt out of social media algorithms. This is under a
23:51
Speaker 3: new crackdown they announced today. Now, Jacinda, you've got concerns
23:55
Speaker 3: about how this policy could impact on small business.
23:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, look, absolutely.
24:01
Speaker 12: I mean, the Albanese government is suggesting that these... changes
24:05
Speaker 12: to algorithms or this opt-out policy around algorithms is about
24:09
Speaker 12: providing more choice for the Australian people. But what it
24:13
Speaker 12: risks doing is potentially not supporting small businesses in that
24:19
Speaker 12: we've got 89% of businesses in our country that utilise
24:24
Speaker 12: social media to market their products and their services. And 60%
24:30
Speaker 12: of those businesses also post, you know, weekly or more
24:34
Speaker 12: than that. And it's a way that they advertise out there.
24:38
Speaker 12: I mean, we're talking about, you know, mums at home
24:43
Speaker 12: with a side hustle, with an online store. We're talking about,
24:47
Speaker 12: you know, the small business on the corner that wants
24:49
Speaker 12: to promote themselves further. And they haven't actually considered the
24:54
Speaker 12: economic fallout because of these changes to algorithm opt-out. And
24:59
Speaker 12: so I suppose we, I'd like to see, I'd like
25:02
Speaker 12: to call on this government to basically look at what
25:06
Speaker 12: that means for these small businesses to counteract this if
25:11
Speaker 12: this is what's going to occur, because that is actually,
25:14
Speaker 12: you know, if 89 small businesses, 89% of small businesses
25:18
Speaker 12: in our country utilising social media for their businesses, then
25:22
Speaker 12: that's going to be a big impact economically, I would imagine.
25:26
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
25:27
Speaker 3: Look, yeah, I think businesses had a really tough time
25:30
Speaker 3: under the Albanese government. You know, probably bigger-sized businesses were
25:34
Speaker 3: really hit by the capital gains tax changes as well.
25:39
Speaker 12: Oh, look, at every turn, small businesses, you know, small
25:43
Speaker 12: mum and dad, family businesses have absolutely.
25:47
Speaker 2: Had it tough.
25:47
Speaker 12: If they thought they hadn't had it tough already with
25:50
Speaker 12: all those previous tax changes when it comes to CGT
25:54
Speaker 12: and capital gains and all those all those changes that
25:56
Speaker 12: they know that they're pushing back on now and beside themselves,
25:58
Speaker 12: restructuring of trusts. Well, here we go again with one
26:03
Speaker 12: more issue that this government just streaks ahead of the
26:07
Speaker 12: pack and decides we're going to do this. It's for
26:10
Speaker 12: the benefit of the Australian people. I mean, they've already
26:13
Speaker 12: got the 16 and under ban in place, which is
26:17
Speaker 12: supposed to protect children in our country.
26:19
Speaker 2: And now they're trying.
26:20
Speaker 12: To basically choose what adults get to see, the content
26:25
Speaker 12: they get to see. But, you know, this ultimately is
26:28
Speaker 12: also about the fact that the algorithms aren't working for
26:30
Speaker 12: Labor right at the moment because they're not producing policies
26:33
Speaker 12: to support small businesses or everyday Australians full stop.
26:38
Speaker 3: Well, I think that's a great point that you say
26:40
Speaker 3: the algorithms aren't working for Labor at the moment, because,
26:43
Speaker 3: I mean, remember that big misinformation campaign they tried to
26:47
Speaker 3: run where they were going to have a misinformation department and,
26:50
Speaker 3: you know, content would be taken offline. I mean, you know,
26:53
Speaker 3: there's always ways to control the message. We saw it
26:56
Speaker 3: during the COVID pandemic. This is not a conspiracy.
27:00
Speaker 2: There's always ways that bureaucrats.
27:02
Speaker 3: Find to try and control the message. And I wouldn't
27:05
Speaker 3: be surprised if this was part of that.
27:07
Speaker 2: All right, I'm going to come back to this.
27:08
Speaker 3: Topic in a bit more detail of the One Nation candidate,
27:11
Speaker 3: Warren Pickering. I'm going to come back to that in
27:13
Speaker 3: more detail a bit later. But, Jacinta, I am keen
27:16
Speaker 3: to know your thoughts, generally speaking, and I know you've
27:19
Speaker 3: been in and out of divisions all afternoon, but he
27:22
Speaker 3: held a big press conference this afternoon. He admitted to
27:24
Speaker 3: illicit drug use, denied he'd taken ice. Do you think
27:28
Speaker 3: he's fit to be the Victorian One Nation leader?
27:33
Speaker 12: Oh, look, I think we as individuals all have our
27:38
Speaker 12: own pasts and, you know, sometimes we've got to overcome
27:41
Speaker 12: difficult circumstances within our past. I suppose I'm not so
27:45
Speaker 12: much concerned with... with the personal lives of politicians in
27:50
Speaker 12: regard to this. And if they've stated what they've stated,
27:52
Speaker 12: then so be it. And they've moved on with their lives.
27:55
Speaker 12: But what I am, I suppose, interested in is the
27:57
Speaker 12: fact that in the crisis of the cost of living
28:01
Speaker 12: that we're faced with as a country, the fact that
28:03
Speaker 12: Labor governments in Victoria, as well as federally, are absolutely
28:08
Speaker 12: destroying this country. They're not doing their best to address
28:13
Speaker 12: the issues of things like, you know, drug addiction, alcohol
28:18
Speaker 12: addiction and those sorts of issues. I know there's a
28:20
Speaker 12: hell of a lot of work that needs to be
28:21
Speaker 12: done in those areas and supporting Australians.
28:25
Speaker 2: To be the best that they can be.
28:26
Speaker 12: But ultimately, yeah, my concerns is more so less about
28:30
Speaker 12: Warren Pickering's personal life and more about what we can
28:34
Speaker 12: do to get rid of these terrible Labor governments in
28:36
Speaker 12: Victoria as well as... the, you know, the Albanese government
28:40
Speaker 12: here federally.
28:41
Speaker 1: All right.
28:42
Speaker 2: Jacinta Nambajimba-Price, thank you so much.
28:46
Speaker 3: Still to come, Erica Kirk's heartbreaking piece, an article after
28:50
Speaker 3: a year where she's been bullied by some conservative hosts.
28:54
Speaker 3: And the fiery debate over One Nation's Victorian leader after
28:57
Speaker 3: those bombshell allegations.
28:58
Speaker 2: I'll talk about it after the break. Welcome back. Well,
29:05
Speaker 2: there was one hell of a press.
29:06
Speaker 3: Conference this afternoon with One Nation's Victoria leader admitting to
29:10
Speaker 3: using illicit drugs after a big expose in The Australian.
29:15
Speaker 1: I had utilised illegal drugs in my 20s. Speed, amphetamines,
29:21
Speaker 1: ecstasy and marijuana.
29:22
Speaker 13: Mr Pickering referenced not wanting to act in a sexual,
29:27
Speaker 13: devious manner in that note.
29:29
Speaker 10: To Miss Scott.
29:32
Speaker 13: Mr Pickering was referring to behaviour that involved the couple's
29:38
Speaker 13: open relationship. They opened that relationship to a third person
29:44
Speaker 13: and at the same time Mr Pickering was exploring his
29:47
Speaker 13: own sexuality.
29:49
Speaker 3: This was not a normal press conference and now there's
29:53
Speaker 3: debate around One Nation's vetting processes and whether it's Victorian
29:57
Speaker 3: leader Pickering should actually stand down. The chief political correspondent
30:01
Speaker 3: for the Sydney Morning Herald, Paul Sackall, joins me from Canberra. Paul, now,
30:06
Speaker 3: this is fascinating because One Nation was originally completely denying
30:10
Speaker 3: Jamie Walker's incredible exclusives in The Australian. Then he's come
30:15
Speaker 3: out and held this press conference admitting to a lot
30:19
Speaker 3: but still denying the ice use around children. And The
30:24
Speaker 3: Australian tonight has.
30:27
Speaker 3: Has backed in that claim again. They've got his former
30:29
Speaker 3: partner saying that it was irrefutable, his ice use.
30:34
Speaker 15: You're spot on to call it not a normal press conference.
30:37
Speaker 15: I think that's been pretty diplomatic. If James Ashby was
30:41
Speaker 15: mopping up a few weeks ago, I think this is
30:42
Speaker 15: more of like a high-pressure cleaner, this one.
30:45
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, exactly.
30:48
Speaker 15: Have you ever seen anything like this in your time
30:50
Speaker 15: in covering politics, Shari, a press conference like that?
30:52
Speaker 3: No, I mean, talking about, you know, sexual deviance and
30:56
Speaker 3: the type of drugs he took, I mean, it was unbelievable.
31:00
Speaker 9: Extraordinary.
31:01
Speaker 15: And I don't want to dwell on it too much,
31:02
Speaker 15: but it is worth, just before getting into the Pickering question,
31:05
Speaker 15: touching on the extent of dysfunction across One Nation's operations
31:09
Speaker 15: across the country. In WA, where they've just won a by-election...
31:13
Speaker 15: Their candidate admitted to significant cocaine use in a previous life.
31:18
Speaker 15: In New South Wales, their putative premier is a clean
31:22
Speaker 15: energy advocate in a party that doesn't believe in net zero.
31:25
Speaker 15: In Victoria, their alternative premier is someone who, as we're
31:28
Speaker 15: learning through this really good reporting in The Australian, has
31:31
Speaker 15: been a big drug user and a self-described sexual deviant.
31:34
Speaker 15: David Farley, their new MP for Farah, has a totally
31:37
Speaker 15: divergent view on migration to the party, and the party
31:40
Speaker 15: shifted from a position of net negative migration to plus
31:44
Speaker 15: 130,000 people in just a space of weeks. And now
31:47
Speaker 15: on this Pickering question, the party's initially denied these stories
31:51
Speaker 15: written by Jamie Walker and is now trying to kind
31:54
Speaker 15: of tamp down some of the elements of it, but
31:56
Speaker 15: largely acknowledges that the person they want to be, the
31:59
Speaker 15: Premier of Victoria, is someone with a very, very chequered
32:02
Speaker 15: background who, if they were leading any other major political party,
32:05
Speaker 15: would no longer be in the job. Now, the rules
32:07
Speaker 15: don't really... Normal rules aren't really applying to One Nation
32:10
Speaker 15: at the moment. None of what I say should diminish
32:13
Speaker 15: the reasons why people are voting for One Nation. They're
32:16
Speaker 15: doing so totally legitimately. The coalition has forgotten its conservative roots.
32:20
Speaker 15: The Labor Party is, particularly in Victoria, a mess. So
32:24
Speaker 15: people voting for One Nation are doing so with good intention,
32:27
Speaker 15: but the party is dysfunctional.
32:29
Speaker 3: You know, you hear a lot of, when there are
32:31
Speaker 3: stories like this that are published, you hear a lot
32:33
Speaker 3: of politicians coming out and they do it all the
32:36
Speaker 3: time and saying, oh, you know, we should stay away
32:38
Speaker 3: from their personal life.
32:39
Speaker 2: It's not relevant. How is it relevant?
32:41
Speaker 3: Of course it's relevant.
32:43
Speaker 2: It goes to their character.
32:45
Speaker 3: And if there has been, you know, I don't want
32:49
Speaker 3: to say lies, but if there's stories changing, if there's
32:53
Speaker 3: an element of, you know, changing the story from day
32:58
Speaker 3: to day, which is what we've seen, that goes to
33:00
Speaker 3: character too. We need to know if he was a
33:03
Speaker 3: hard drug user or not. He says he's not, but
33:05
Speaker 3: he has admitted to a lot of drug use that the,
33:09
Speaker 3: you know, the testimony that the Australian's publishing from.
33:12
Speaker 2: The ex-partner says otherwise.
33:14
Speaker 3: This is relevant for someone who's not just going to
33:16
Speaker 3: be a backbencher, but could be. We don't know how
33:19
Speaker 3: the One Nation support is going to play out in Victoria.
33:21
Speaker 2: As you say, could be the premier.
33:24
Speaker 1: Well, totally agree.
33:26
Speaker 15: It's important to note that Pickering denies many of the
33:28
Speaker 15: claims and he has a total right to do so
33:31
Speaker 15: and we should be receptive to his explanation. And I
33:35
Speaker 15: give him credit for fronting up today and addressing the
33:37
Speaker 15: allegations and James Aspey. Most political parties would shy away
33:41
Speaker 15: from these stories or they'd quietly sack the person in question.
33:44
Speaker 15: So good on One Nation for fronting up and I
33:47
Speaker 15: respect that Pickering is having the argument and engaging with
33:50
Speaker 15: it in good faith and I suspect many One Nation
33:52
Speaker 15: voters will respect Pickering that someone has had a checkered history,
33:56
Speaker 15: has had a tough life and are making the best
33:59
Speaker 15: of their lot now. Good on him. However, running a
34:03
Speaker 15: state is not, you know, entering the workforce in some
34:06
Speaker 15: normal job after having a bit of a tough trot
34:09
Speaker 15: earlier in your life. This is serious business. And as
34:14
Speaker 15: I said earlier, if this was a Labor or Coalition person,
34:16
Speaker 15: they'd be gone.
34:18
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I don't know if they'd be gone, but
34:20
Speaker 3: there'd be a lot stronger criticism. I mean, it's a
34:22
Speaker 3: point Andrew Clennell made earlier as well, that if it
34:24
Speaker 3: were Labor Premier Ben Carroll, people wouldn't be so forgiving.
34:29
Speaker 3: But it seems that many rusted-on One Nation voters would
34:32
Speaker 3: even prefer a past drug user than, you know, Anthony
34:37
Speaker 3: Albanese or Ben Carroll. You know, not that he's running federally,
34:41
Speaker 3: but that's the point. They'd even prefer a past drug
34:43
Speaker 3: user than a Labor figure.
34:46
Speaker 15: It's a sign of how little trust there is in
34:48
Speaker 15: our political establishment that mainstream politicians are disliked to such
34:53
Speaker 15: an extent that someone like Warren Pickering would be considered.
34:57
Speaker 15: There was a really interesting finding in a big survey
35:00
Speaker 15: of One Nation voters a few weeks ago which showed
35:02
Speaker 15: that I think 85% of current One Nation voters actually
35:06
Speaker 15: want a leader who breaks the rules and is willing
35:08
Speaker 15: to act outside established norms to get things done. So
35:13
Speaker 15: there is a strong sense that the people we have
35:15
Speaker 15: in the current jobs just aren't working. And so perhaps
35:17
Speaker 15: some people are willing to contemplate a character like Pickering. However,
35:21
Speaker 15: if that's the person you're picking to be the alternative Premier,
35:24
Speaker 15: then what does that say about your vetting system and
35:26
Speaker 15: who might be put up as a candidate to just
35:29
Speaker 15: be a backbencher?
35:30
Speaker 2: Yeah, very good point. Very good point.
35:32
Speaker 3: Look, I want to ask you about this fascinating story
35:35
Speaker 3: I read today where departmental secretaries are asking the Albanese
35:41
Speaker 3: government to intervene. I mean, this is what I was
35:43
Speaker 3: speaking about earlier to, you know, to control the narrative.
35:46
Speaker 3: They're asking them to intervene and stop embarrassing clips from
35:50
Speaker 3: parliamentary hearings from being posted online.
35:57
Speaker 15: Yeah, sorry, I thought you were going to play a
35:59
Speaker 15: clip there, Shari.
35:59
Speaker 1: I apologise, one of those embarrassing clips.
36:01
Speaker 2: There's a lot of them to play. I could play
36:03
Speaker 2: a clip.
36:04
Speaker 15: There are some fantastic ones, and the reason why these
36:07
Speaker 15: departmental secretaries, who are often paid more than $ 800, 000, much
36:11
Speaker 15: more than our politicians, the reason why they're trying to
36:14
Speaker 15: intervene here and protect their colleagues in the bureaucracy is
36:20
Speaker 15: because Senate estimates does expose some of the ludicrous decision-making
36:25
Speaker 15: that occurs in the hallways of Canberra. and public servants
36:30
Speaker 15: get tired sitting around for hours getting grilled by very
36:34
Speaker 15: annoying and aggressive senators who are all looking for a
36:37
Speaker 15: cynical clip to gain virality on their social media, which
36:41
Speaker 15: is their right to do. Not all of them you'll
36:44
Speaker 15: agree with. Some of them will be put up by
36:46
Speaker 15: David Shoebridge, others by Alex Antic, totally different parts of
36:49
Speaker 15: the political spectrum. But what they do expose is how
36:52
Speaker 15: decisions are made and often how poorly those decisions are made.
36:56
Speaker 15: And so I suspect these very highly paid bureaucrats will
36:59
Speaker 15: not get much sympathy from your viewers to try and
37:02
Speaker 15: protect these hearings and effectively treat them as like in-camera
37:06
Speaker 15: court sessions where there's, you know, a family court matter
37:10
Speaker 15: being discussed. I suspect this will go nowhere and the
37:12
Speaker 15: Prime Minister will not assist by changing the rules for
37:15
Speaker 15: Senate estimates here.
37:16
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, let's hope not. I mean, the sort of clips,
37:19
Speaker 3: you know, when bureaucrats are asked What is a woman?
37:22
Speaker 3: And they're unable to answer and it happens to be
37:23
Speaker 3: the bureaucrat for the women's department. I mean, you can
37:27
Speaker 3: understand why they're embarrassed by them, but they've just got
37:29
Speaker 3: to improve their answers. That's the bottom line. All right,
37:31
Speaker 3: Paul Sakal, thank you very much. And still to come,
37:35
Speaker 3: a long-time Treasury insider will give his view on how
37:38
Speaker 3: their modelling on the housing market got it so wrong.
37:42
Speaker 3: And Rudy Giuliani wants to block Zoran Mamdani from attending
37:46
Speaker 3: the 9-11 commemorations.
37:48
Speaker 2: We'll speak about that after the break.
37:53
Speaker 3: Well, Friday will mark one year since Charlie Kirk was
37:56
Speaker 3: brutally murdered at Utah Valley University. His wife, Erica, has
38:01
Speaker 3: written a heartbreaking piece for The Times, sharing what she's
38:04
Speaker 3: learnt about grief. She said she stared at his pillow
38:07
Speaker 3: and wondered how long a person's scent can last in sheets.
38:12
Speaker 3: For more, let's go live now to Washington with our correspondent,
38:15
Speaker 3: Jonathan Kersley. Jono, look, Erica also revealed the advice that
38:20
Speaker 3: Second Lady Usha Vance had shared with her about, you know,
38:24
Speaker 3: surviving 15 minutes. And Erica has had a tough time
38:27
Speaker 3: from some of the right-wing podcasters like Candace Owens over
38:31
Speaker 3: the past year as well.
38:35
Speaker 1: She's had an incredibly tough time, Candice Owens in particular.
38:39
Speaker 14: This is a woman who has been thrust into the
38:41
Speaker 14: spotlight at a young age, obviously a very close and
38:45
Speaker 14: loving relationship.
38:46
Speaker 1: With Charlie Kirk.
38:48
Speaker 14: To have that family ripped away from her in an instant.
38:51
Speaker 1: Remember, she was there at the.
38:52
Speaker 14: University in Utah, almost a year ago to the day
38:57
Speaker 14: when Charlie Kirk was doing exactly what he'd done so
38:59
Speaker 14: many times before, and that was to have a conversation
39:03
Speaker 14: with students.
39:04
Speaker 1: For 13 years, he'd been operating.
39:07
Speaker 14: turning point USA, becoming a powerhouse of the conservative force.
39:14
Speaker 14: But at the same time, he was trying to unite Americans,
39:17
Speaker 14: deciding that the best way to do so was to
39:20
Speaker 14: actually engage in a conversation. This wasn't about creating more division.
39:24
Speaker 14: It was about opening up ideas.
39:26
Speaker 1: It was interesting.
39:27
Speaker 14: I've been going back through some of his speech. some
39:30
Speaker 14: of his comments that he's made. And there was one
39:33
Speaker 14: that struck out. He was asked by a 17-year-old at
39:37
Speaker 14: one point, what should that person be doing in order
39:42
Speaker 14: to try and be as successful and be somewhat like
39:46
Speaker 14: Charlie Kirk? Well, Charlie's response was, don't spend money on
39:50
Speaker 14: alcohol and drugs. Go and spend it on books. Go
39:53
Speaker 14: and read more. Don't debate more. Debate less, but read more.
39:57
Speaker 14: He was an intellect, Charlie. He was somebody who wanted
40:00
Speaker 14: young people to be in the conversation and yes a
40:03
Speaker 14: year on we're now hearing erica kirk talk about that
40:07
Speaker 14: 15 minute advice just taking things 15 minutes at a
40:10
Speaker 14: time she said in that new york times op-ed she
40:12
Speaker 14: found things like seeing his toothbrush and seeing his towel
40:15
Speaker 14: difficult she couldn't get into their bed initially because it
40:20
Speaker 14: was just simply too hard she is still somebody who
40:24
Speaker 14: is dealing with grief but dealing.
40:26
Speaker 1: With it in her own way.
40:27
Speaker 14: So you can only imagine that that memorial service, that
40:30
Speaker 14: ceremony that is going to take place on Thursday night
40:33
Speaker 14: US time, that'll be Friday morning Australian time, is going
40:36
Speaker 14: to be extraordinary.
40:38
Speaker 1: And they're going.
40:39
Speaker 14: Right back to the scene of the crime, right back
40:41
Speaker 14: to that Utah Valley University to remember the life of
40:45
Speaker 14: Charlie Kirk.
40:46
Speaker 1: It's going to be extraordinary.
40:48
Speaker 2: It will indeed. We'll be watching.
40:50
Speaker 3: America, meanwhile, is preparing to commemorate the deadliest terror attacks, 9-11.
40:55
Speaker 2: Some tension, though, this year. So former New York Mayor.
40:58
Speaker 3: Rudy Giuliani, who was the mayor at the time of
41:00
Speaker 3: the attacks, he says the current mayor, Zoran Mamdani, shouldn't
41:03
Speaker 3: be attending. Giuliani says, having lost friends there and being
41:07
Speaker 3: very close to many of the families, it offends me
41:10
Speaker 3: that he's coming. I mean, Jono, I think he's got
41:13
Speaker 3: a point, but it also shows just how far New
41:15
Speaker 3: York has changed since Giuliani was mayor to, you know,
41:20
Speaker 3: what it's like now under Mamdani.
41:24
Speaker 1: It shows you how much New York has changed.
41:27
Speaker 14: It also shows you how much Rudy Giuliani has changed
41:31
Speaker 14: in that, what.
41:33
Speaker 1: 25 years.
41:34
Speaker 14: It is going to be since those planes flew into
41:37
Speaker 14: the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center. Back on
41:41
Speaker 14: September 11, 2001, Rudy Giuliani was dubbed America's mayor after this.
41:46
Speaker 1: Everybody seemed to love him. They seemed to embrace him.
41:49
Speaker 1: Everywhere he went, he was the mayor for the people
41:52
Speaker 1: at that time.
41:53
Speaker 14: And then somewhat slipping away from the political radar, but
41:58
Speaker 14: still very much with this idea of the Muslim ideology
42:04
Speaker 14: now still in his head, And that's what he's taken
42:07
Speaker 14: aim at Zoran Mamdani over, saying that the 9-11 terrorists
42:13
Speaker 14: weren't hiding their hatred for America when they did what
42:17
Speaker 14: they did, but accusing Zoran Mamdani of doing exactly that. Now,
42:21
Speaker 14: Mamdani has responded over the course of the last 24
42:25
Speaker 14: hours or so, saying he's proud to be American, that
42:28
Speaker 14: he loves the country. But it is a very interesting
42:31
Speaker 14: question that Rudy Giuliani is raising just days out from
42:35
Speaker 14: the 25th anniversary because Mamdani has spoken.
42:39
Speaker 1: About this before, the idea of the rise of Islamophobia.
42:42
Speaker 14: And here you have days out the message that Rudy Giuliani.
42:46
Speaker 1: Is putting out. I think, yes, obviously it shows a
42:49
Speaker 1: sign that New.
42:50
Speaker 14: York has gone from somebody like Giuliani to Zoran Mamdani.
42:54
Speaker 14: But at the same time, it shows you just how
42:56
Speaker 14: far Rudy Giuliani has gone in those 25 years too.
43:00
Speaker 3: Interesting perspective. Not sure I totally agree, but interesting nonetheless.
43:04
Speaker 3: I just want to Finish with Iran. Now, we're seeing
43:07
Speaker 3: reports that Iran is finally being squeezed economically after months
43:12
Speaker 3: and months and months of sanctions that President Trump kept
43:15
Speaker 3: insisting would work, but it didn't seem to be showing
43:18
Speaker 3: any signs of holding them back.
43:20
Speaker 2: What's the latest?
43:23
Speaker 14: I think we're really starting to see signs that the
43:26
Speaker 14: economy in Iran is not only crumbling, it is crashing.
43:31
Speaker 14: Messages are being sent out by Iranians to various broadcasters
43:36
Speaker 14: and news outlets around the world, seemingly able to bypass
43:40
Speaker 14: some of the technology crackdowns that Iran has imposed. And
43:43
Speaker 14: they're talking about just cutting off what normal people would
43:47
Speaker 14: consider essentials. Things like dairy, things like fruit, things like vegetables.
43:53
Speaker 14: that everything now is being considered essential in the words
43:56
Speaker 14: of one woman, but that everything is too expensive. The
44:01
Speaker 14: Associated Press has been to the port city of Bandar Abbas,
44:04
Speaker 14: where they've had a glimpse of life under this crumbling economy,
44:08
Speaker 14: where the currency has fallen to levels that are disastrous
44:14
Speaker 14: for the Iranian people. And this is exactly what the
44:17
Speaker 14: United States is wanting to happen. They are wanting... this
44:21
Speaker 14: currency to collapse on itself. They are wanting the economy
44:24
Speaker 14: to be crushed because their view now under the Trump
44:27
Speaker 14: administration is that only then can the people rise up
44:31
Speaker 14: against the Iranian regime when their economy is completely in
44:35
Speaker 14: the mess and they can't afford basic things. Yes, there's
44:38
Speaker 14: an element of human suffering right now, a huge element
44:40
Speaker 14: of human suffering when it comes to that, not being
44:42
Speaker 14: able to buy essential fruits and vegetables and groceries and
44:46
Speaker 14: things you need to buy for your family. But the
44:49
Speaker 14: design of the sanctions, the design of the crackdown, is
44:53
Speaker 14: to put a real chokehold on the Iranian economy. And
44:55
Speaker 14: that's exactly what we're seeing starting to come through with
44:59
Speaker 14: fruition now.
44:59
Speaker 1: The oil money, it's drying up. Yeah.
45:03
Speaker 16: All right.
45:04
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Great analysis, Jonathan Kersley.
45:06
Speaker 3: All right. Well, after the break, long-time Treasury insider lifts
45:10
Speaker 3: the lid on the politicisation of the Treasury after its
45:13
Speaker 3: advice on the tax changes got it just horribly wrong.
45:17
Speaker 2: It's after the break. Welcome back.
45:22
Speaker 3: Well, as I spoke about a bit earlier, the Albanese
45:25
Speaker 3: government was explicitly warned in confidential Treasury advice that their
45:30
Speaker 3: controversial tax hikes would increase rents and reduce housing supply. Now,
45:35
Speaker 3: the heavily redacted document also predicted that the damage would
45:38
Speaker 3: be modest. But as we're hurtling towards our biggest property
45:42
Speaker 3: crunch in 40 years, there are now questions over why
45:46
Speaker 3: Treasury got it so wrong. Now, this is why I
45:49
Speaker 3: wanted to have on the show tonight former Treasury Assistant
45:52
Speaker 3: Secretary David Pearl.
45:53
Speaker 2: David, great to see you again. So what is going
45:56
Speaker 2: on here?
45:57
Speaker 3: I mean, you've had a look at some of the forecasts,
46:01
Speaker 3: the Treasury advice that was given to the government predicting, yes,
46:05
Speaker 3: that house prices would fall, that rents would increase and
46:09
Speaker 3: that supply would fall, but they said this would just
46:11
Speaker 3: be modest.
46:14
Speaker 12: Good evening, Shari.
46:16
Speaker 16: Well, I think those house forecasts you're referring to are
46:20
Speaker 16: on the basis of all other things being equal.
46:23
Speaker 1: So what Treasury.
46:25
Speaker 16: would have done in the budget papers is just report
46:29
Speaker 16: for the government what the effect of its specific tax
46:32
Speaker 16: policy changes would have on rents and house prices. It
46:36
Speaker 16: wasn't a forecast of what was likely to happen in
46:40
Speaker 16: the housing market.
46:42
Speaker 2: I mean, that's a problem, isn't it?
46:43
Speaker 3: I mean, if they're not taking into account high inflation,
46:46
Speaker 3: the likelihood of further interest rate rises, shouldn't they be
46:50
Speaker 3: doing that before they give their official advice to the government?
46:53
Speaker 3: that says the changes will only be modest?
46:58
Speaker 16: Well, I think it's important to explain to your viewers
47:03
Speaker 16: how Treasury forecasts fit into the budget. The budget papers
47:07
Speaker 16: are owned by the government. Jim Chalmers' name is on
47:11
Speaker 16: the cover of the budget. So every word, every phrase,
47:16
Speaker 16: every piece of punctuation, every number, every modelling, reported in
47:23
Speaker 16: the budget papers is the Treasurer's. It's not Treasury's. So
47:26
Speaker 16: this idea that Treasury is a group of disinterested apolitical
47:32
Speaker 16: boffins doing its best to try and understand the effect
47:35
Speaker 16: of these tax changes on the economy is false. The
47:41
Speaker 16: key phrase you mentioned in your introduction, Shari, was that
47:45
Speaker 16: the warning was that the tax changes would have a
47:49
Speaker 16: modest effect effect on rents and house prices, modest. So
47:54
Speaker 16: the reality is that the government would not want a
47:57
Speaker 16: number or numbers in the budget that would undercut that
48:01
Speaker 16: view that the change is modest. Now, of course, that's
48:04
Speaker 16: false because Jenny Wilkinson, the Treasury Secretary, days after the budget,
48:10
Speaker 16: gave a speech where she described these tax changes as
48:13
Speaker 16: the most significant in a quarter of a century. But
48:17
Speaker 16: the political imperative particularly for rents, bearing in mind that
48:21
Speaker 16: Paul Keating had to reinstate negative gearing after rents rose
48:27
Speaker 16: by 30% in Sydney in the late 80s, the political
48:30
Speaker 16: imperative for Chalmers was to say, look, Treasury's expecting rents
48:34
Speaker 16: to rise by 0.25% or $ 2 a week. So it's
48:40
Speaker 16: not the politicisation of Treasury. Treasury is part of the
48:43
Speaker 16: political machine.
48:45
Speaker 3: I mean, that's a fascinating way to look at it.
48:47
Speaker 3: Was it like that when you were there? Did you
48:49
Speaker 3: feel under political pressure to, you know, have your opinions,
48:54
Speaker 3: you know, shaped by the government of the day?
48:56
Speaker 16: So what you should do as a Treasury person is
49:01
Speaker 16: the government comes to you and says, we want to
49:05
Speaker 16: get rid of negative gearing. Treasuries should be providing policy advice.
49:09
Speaker 1: So....
49:10
Speaker 16: Back in the day, if you like, Treasury would have said,
49:12
Speaker 16: what problem are you trying to solve? If the government said,
49:15
Speaker 16: if the Treasurer said, I want to fix the housing
49:18
Speaker 16: market crisis, well, Treasury previously would have said, fiddling with
49:23
Speaker 16: negative gearing and capital gains rules won't address the drivers
49:27
Speaker 16: of high housing prices, which are immigration, loose monetary policy
49:31
Speaker 16: and supply restrictions. So that would have stopped the idea
49:35
Speaker 16: dead in its tracks. But The government was determined to
49:39
Speaker 16: reinstate Bill Shorten's failed 2019 tax assault on the big
49:43
Speaker 16: end of town. And the modern Treasury, I don't know
49:47
Speaker 16: whether they provided that advice, but I'm assuming they didn't
49:52
Speaker 16: because the government wanted to take this action anyway. And
49:57
Speaker 16: let's remember that Jenny Wilkinson and Treasury last year modelled
50:00
Speaker 16: the effect of net zero on the economy as and
50:04
Speaker 16: did not admit that it would cost a trillion dollars
50:07
Speaker 16: or bring down growth and productivity. It actually modelled an increase. So, again,
50:10
Speaker 16: I think we have to become more mature in political
50:13
Speaker 16: culture in Australia. These tax changes are poor policy. They're
50:17
Speaker 16: interacting with interest rate increases in a way that is
50:21
Speaker 16: freaking investors out, and that's what's.
50:24
Speaker 3: Explaining what we're seeing in the market.
50:27
Speaker 5: Indeed.
50:27
Speaker 2: We've got to go.
50:28
Speaker 1: I'm out of time.
50:28
Speaker 16: We shouldn't expect the Treasury can predict down.
50:31
Speaker 1: To the last dollar.
50:32
Speaker 3: David Pearl, thank you very much. I'll see you tomorrow
50:35
Speaker 3: night at eight. And here's Paul Murray.