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Musician & Producer Andrew Greer on the Artist's Journey · The Daily Writer

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_00: Welcome to the Daily Rider Podcast, where we bring you tips and Daily Rider Podcast Build Happy Foods.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: Where we bring you tips and inspiration for more resources for writer, Daily Rider Starter Kit.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: For more resources, visit DailyRiderLife.com.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_00: When we talk about writing on this podcast, we usually do it in the context of writing books.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: But writing can take many forms, and today I'm excited to welcome a guest whose writing and creative work has taken shape in many different ways over the years.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew Greer is an eight-time Dove Award nominated singer-songwriter, producer, author, and television/slash podcast host, who is known for his old soul sound and thoughtful conversations.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew's fifth and newest collaboration with Parable Christian Stores, Tune My Heart 2, Songs of Goodness and Love, followed last year's Tune My Heart, Songs of Rest and Reflection, which debuted at number one and spent 23 weeks atop Parable Christian Stores' national retail chart.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: In addition to writing and recording his own music, Andrew is a producer as well.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: Just last month we saw the release of Felsberg, The Songs of Rich Mullins, which was co-produced by Andrew, and the album featured recordings of classic Rich Mullins songs by Christian artists, including Amy Grant, Derek Webb, Cindy Morgan, Andrew Peterson, and many others.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew is also known for facilitating conversations that dig deep.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_00: He co-created and co-hosted the popular television and streaming series, Dinner Conversations with Mark Flowery and Andrew Greer, and he also co-hosts the Bridges podcast with Patsy Claremont, which is a show inviting listeners of all ages to find common ground embracing a fierce faith in a tough season.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Carrying on his affinity for meaningful conversations in the spiritual context, Andrew has also authored two books, Transcending Mysteries, Who is God and What Does He Want From Us, which is co-authored with Jenny Owens, and Winds of Heaven's Tough of Earth, Spiritual Conversations Inspired by the Life and Lyrics of Rich Mullins.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that's a long bio, but as you can see, Andrew is an artist and writer who operates in multiple genres and formats.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to include all that in the bio.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: You know, many times in these intros, I kind of cut down the bio that a guest has if it's a really long one.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: And actually I cut this one down because there was more I could have said, because Andrew has his hands in so many different creative projects.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I just find it so inspiring and so amazing.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: And this was a really, really fun conversation because Andrew is a writer, who is creating content in multiple genres and formats, and uh just as a really, really inspiring individual.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: So in this wide-ranging conversation, we talked about his journey as an artist and musician.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about his burgeoning interest in filmmaking, we talked some theology, and also about producing the new Rich Rollins album, which I really, really enjoyed.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I hope you enjoy this conversation as much as I do.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_00: Before we get into it though, I want to let you know you can find links to all of Andrew's music, books, and more at andrew-greer.com.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_00: So make sure and check that out.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_00: All right, my friends, here is my conversation with the amazing Andrew Greer.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew, it's so good to welcome you to the Daily Rider Podcast.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for being a guest today.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited to dive into your journey.
• 3:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, thanks for having me.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: This is uh it's it's always an honor uh when someone wants to hear something I have to say.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I I'm happy to be a part, and and I already know that this will be a good conversation.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_00: So uh the way that I thought we would start this out is if you can give us kind of a rundown of your journey into being an artist, you're doing a lot of really interesting things.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love that you're doing writing and music, you're on YouTube, uh, you're doing podcasting.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: These are all things that are so amazing and things that I love myself, and I'm doing many of those myself as well.
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, but I thought we'd maybe go back in time a little bit.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Give us a rundown of how you got into all this stuff in the first place and what your journey was as a musician and artist.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_02: I certainly didn't know that a lot of people would find me on YouTube when I was 40.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: So that is uh I thought that was a thing for the tweens.
• 4:15
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's what they call it.
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_02: But uh sure enough, it's like TV these days.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, you know, my journey began where I grew up in Texas in a small town uh with my parents and my two older brothers and music, uh you know, we had lots of interests, my brothers and I and my parents, but music was something we could all um we could all gather around, we could all anchor on, either loving it or participating in it.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_02: My mother as a classical organist and also then later kind of in her career became a music educator, which was really cool, and she loved that.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then in the public school system in the small town where we grew up in, my dad is a therapist, so he's a listener, you know, and he's an observer and he's a thinker.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I think when you put those things together, that kind of musical heart of my mom, my dad also loved and respected music, but then that kind of thinking, heart-led person, then maybe it wasn't such uh a far-fetched, you know, thought or path that I would really uh begin as a songwriter, uh, because it's melding those two things together, you know, trying to see life as others see it and as I perceive it and put that in in a way that's palpable and tangible and can be understood by a lot of people and even just by an individual, you know.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: Uh sometimes uh what we create and what we put our plow to is only uh benefited uh a few people, and sometimes it benefits a huge wide circle of people.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think that's up to us really in any form or fashion, uh, but just to be steady, you know, on the plow.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so anyway, I graduated high school uh there in Texas, in Azel, Texas, where I grew up, went to Belmont University in Nashville, Tennessee for music and on a music scholarship there, which I'm very grateful for, allowed me to go there and participate in that program, which was incredible.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: And of course, it put me in the middle of Nashville.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: You know, Belmont is right in the middle, uh right at the end of music row, and this was in the early 2000s, and and then somewhere in my college career, there was a Christian artist who was fairly new at the time named Sean Groves, but he was kind of hitting it big in that moment.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: And he was on a label called You remember Sean?
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_00: His his role was the uh what was the first big song?
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was uh uh was it Welcome Home?
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, this yes, yes, that was it.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_00: That was such an amazing song.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely loved it.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh-huh.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: And he was an incredible, you know, musician.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: He grew up in Texas, where my cousins grew up.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: And anyway, he knew I was in Nashville, and he he wanted to know if I wanted to get some kind of dig my teeth into uh Nashville songwriting and just industry and everything.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so he introduced me to Mark W.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: Smith, who was the president of his label, Rocket Town Records, or the founder at that time.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so that began a few years on the back half of my college career of learning everything from how to co-write to how to edit a press release.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was everything, you know, to how to um stuff the mail.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it was absolutely everything.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_02: And and I've always loved a little bit of everything.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_02: Kind of you've alluded to that already.
• 7:23
  SPEAKER_02: So that got me into also meeting artists, uh a Rocktown records artist at the time.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_02: Ginny Owens became one of my closest friends, and we ended up co-authoring a book later together and have traveled the world together.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: And um even when Michael was on Dinner Conversations, the show that I do with Mark Lowry uh a couple of years ago, we were just kind of both like, can you believe it's come full circle, you know, to this from um talking over what music's about around the copy machine at Rock and Down Records, you know, um, to then hosting them on that show of ours.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_02: So it's been an interesting journey.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I never can't had like this idea of exactly what I wanted to do.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: I never wanted to be specifically a recording artist or be known as Andrew Greer, the performing artist.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: And and I don't know why that was, but I just knew I loved music.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_02: And now looking back a little bit now at 40, I can I can have a little hindsight, um, still gaining a lot, but I can see that really storytelling was really what I had fallen in love with about music.
• 8:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so that carried me in my 20s.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_02: I recorded some independent records, some that got picked up.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_02: I recorded records of original music and of hymns and kind of became known for that Americana folk hymnity.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: But then that all kind of took a different path when Mark Lowry and I met.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: I think it was backstage at the Dove Awards one year.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_02: We can't remember, it's it's all a blur as it is usually around Mark.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so um we met and we fell in love with uh the conversation around podcasts that we were having.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: We both loved NPR podcasts, real thoughtful podcasts, storytelling.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_02: And we thought, what if we, and this was 2015 or 16.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_02: So kind of early on when podcasts were just becoming the rage they are now, and we decided to do one of our own to talk about topics that aren't always discussed or discussed easily within faith circles, but that are human conversations.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_02: That could be the split up of a marriage, you know, that could be um the process of what does a blended family look like.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: That could be you're I'm addicted to this, you're addicted to that, what does recovery look like?
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that's there comes my dad into play, you know, that therapist brain and just wanting to hear people's stories and be patient with people's stories.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: And that took on a whole nother format, and then I'll stop talking.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_02: But uh put me into a production company was formed out of the dinner conversations back end.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: Really?
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_02: That got me into film.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, where I'm sitting right now, I'm not sure if your listeners see this or just listen to this, but I'm sitting in a church that is President and Mrs.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: Carter's church down here in Plains, Georgia, uh, where I part-time live now, because we started filming a documentary about race in the deep south in Plains, Georgia, under the positive influence of President Carter and Mrs.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_02: Carter about two years ago at that production company.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_02: So my life has really, uh though I'm going on a songwriter's retreat, you know, this weekend up in North Georgia, and though I'm on Point of Grace's tour this fall, and you know, music is still a part of what I do, and I'm still in writers' rooms.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_02: But telling story through film has absolutely captivated my my mind's attention and my heart's affection.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and this is kind of my first foray, and it'll come out next year.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: So um, so you talk about storytelling, you talk about storytelling all the time, you talk about writing, you talk about writing in all its different formats.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_02: So it's interesting how songwriting, which became music and recording, then became helping others share their story and then kind of re-spitting that back out, regurgitating that much like a counselor does so someone can hear what they're saying and apply it to their own life, and then connecting that now to uh finding these profound stories in different places of the country, um, you know, that involve these historical figures.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_00: I can't think of anything more relevant right now than doing a documentary on that topic.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_00: That sounds absolutely amazing.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_00: It really does.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_02: It you know what's been amazing about it, we've all been, whether you want to or not talk about um race relations, it's a it is a part of the fabric of in a world that is as diverse as ours racially, um, you can't help but be a part of the conversation because you don't really get to choose what your neighbors look like anymore.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: You may be in my parents' era, you you know, coming out of segregation, um you could be more assured if that's what you wanted to live around people that look just like you.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's not true anymore, and I think that's a beautiful thing.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: But um what's been interesting is I think the conversation can be very forced at times, and I I want to address this delicately, but I've been a part of it.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_02: I have friends of many different racial backgrounds and even different lifestyles, and just um I like people, and so I'm not afraid to be a friend, and I hope no one's afraid to be mine either.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_02: I certainly have plenty of freak flags to fly.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_02: And uh we came here and in a small town because President Carter grew up in Plains, a small town of 700 people, still lives here at 98, spent all but the 10 years that he was governor and president in this town.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I think what's interesting is it's just a small rural town that's doing their best.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_02: There's still a train track that runs through the middle.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: And for the majority, uh uh Kent, the majority of black citizens do live on one side and white citizens on the other.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: Now that comes from a long history of when they were not an integrated people.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_02: But they have tested me and challenged me.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: I've come in with my kind of metropolitan politically correct statements.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: Like, do you realize there's a train track running through the middle of the town and and the black citizens over here and the white citizens over here?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_02: And they have said, we do see that.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_02: But it was a black woman here in town, Penny, that who I love, who said to me, They bought that house fair and square, and I bought this house fair and square.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_02: Don't diminish my story just because it's supposed to look like something culture says it's supposed to look like now.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_02: She said, if I have, if that house is for sale and I want to buy it and I don't have the opportunity to at least put an offer in.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_02: Now maybe you're talking about something that's injustice or or racism.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_02: But just because they live there and their great-grandfather built it and it's never been out of their family, and I live here because these neighborhoods were built in the 80s when I was moving from California to have a life for myself and my kids.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's not racism.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_02: So I don't I don't know if you want to go down that trail, but the point is it's re-growing or it's evolving my perspective to be just a politically correct perspective, to actually get on the ground level and say, wait, different doesn't always mean divided, and separate doesn't always mean segregated, you know.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_02: That to live in a diverse culture means there's going to be different preferences at times.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: That doesn't necessarily mean we're divided.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: It can mean it, but it doesn't mean it.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: So we're so what am I doing through this?
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_02: Just raising more questions.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the idea is can we talk about this, not have someone talk about it for us?
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_00: That is incredibly powerful.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_00: And one one of the themes that I see going through your work, and obviously this is the first time we've ever actually chatted, but I always try to do research on podcast guests, and I've been kind of going through your catalog of music and writing and everything.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the themes that I see is that you have a theme of conversations going through basically everything that you do, whether it's conversations about the topics that guests on the dinner conversations show would want to have, or whether it's conversations about the importance of hymns, which is seems to be a thread that runs through your work, or Rich Mullins, which is which is a project project that we'll talk about.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: You just seem to have a real heart for listening and for conversations.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: And honestly, I can't think of anything that's that's a more appropriate impulse in today's world where everybody wants to shout and be heard, but so few people want to actually just sit down and have a conversation and listen.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: So the work you're doing is really, really important, even in all these different forms that it takes, because that that impulse is so critical right now.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_02: I think you're right.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: And and you know, I'll be real clear, I am not always the best listener.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_02: And um, but I want to be motivated by wanting to listen at least, you know, to start there, to start with I don't know everything.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_02: And um I I think, you know, in some regards, we're talking about cultivating humility, which all of us have to do in our own way.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, pride is just a part of human nature.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: Um, wanting to be right can be a good thing, actually.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_02: Those who seek justice really um, really concertedly have that drive to be right, and there's a goodness to that.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: But I have to remember it's not all tied up with the bow.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_02: Uh there's just a surrender and a humility in listening that also I think, or hopefully, I'm learning, is posturing my heart towards God as well, in that I no longer need to define God in the sense of I don't need to feel safe with God, to desire communion with God, I no longer need Him to fit the parameters that I created somewhere along the way.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: Or someone created for me and I adopted, you know, whatever it is.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_02: And there is no criticism in that we do, we we try to create these.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you think about God being so knowable yet so unfathomable, right?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's it's both and it's only natural for my finite self in this context of life to try to you know put to find some boundary around it so I can understand who it is that I'm pursuing or who it is that I'm drawn to in my spirit.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_02: But when I can but I think that's out of discomfort, and it's certainly out of some element of wanting to control, which I think our desire to control comes out of discomfort, of a feeling of being unsafe.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't know, I I'm a person who loves to hike, I love to be outdoors in nature in any format.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_02: I just have to get outdoors every day, even if it's just for a walk, that's all I'm able to do.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, the the order of nature of creation helps to instill in me that notion that though I don't know it all, it seems to be working, and it seems to be working in a way that is foundational to my well-being, you know, and that that's a deep abiding trust.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, there are things that are not okay, you know, about our lives.
• 18:09
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there are certainly things, you know, there are beds that I've had to make up and walk down that hall that I never ever thought would be in the circle of my circumstances.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_02: Those things are not always okay, but it seems when I still step outside or when I have a good conversation with someone like you, or we're talking and we're listening and we're sharing, then it seems that it it kind of restores my trust or grows my trust.
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that um in that I guess the trustworthiness of God in the sense that he cannot fail himself, he will not fail me, in that this all works out.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: And it works out not just like it's all gonna be alright, but it works out like for I just always think back to for his glory and our good.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a mutual benefit, it's communion with God, it's not just a one-way me glorifying God, and that's the end result, and then I'm stuck here in my in the mire of my circumstances, but it's glorifying God that also elevates me into how he created me, you know, and that is to be in in pure communion with him.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a lot, but the the point, I think the the summary of it is that I've just begun to relax, and listening has helped me begun to relax in all areas of my life.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, because there is there are so many common denominators in our stories uh as we listen.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_02: The details are different, but you know, the crux of it's the same, and and that is we're people in need of God and each other, you know.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_00: It seems like you're drawn to filmmaking as a way to have more conversations and to bring up good questions because everybody loves films, everybody loves TV, you know, and and media, and it seems to be a really great way to address issues, to bring up topics for conversation without it feeling threatening.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'd I'm curious.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I noticed that you did a min, I guess you would call it a mini documentary for your album, To My Heart 2, which I I loved because it was so cinematic and so well done, but it wasn't super long.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm curious if that was partly the genesis of you wanting to do more with film.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: Was that kind of an experiment doing that mini documentary in some ways?
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, potentially.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: I haven't thought about it that way.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_02: I've always had uh music videos where I've always been involved in directing them since the beginning.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: I I just always am interested in what the final film looks like.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I I I worked with uh uh a woman who does incredible works in the beginning, so I who was also a close friend, so I never had to uh learn for her.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: She knew the craft, and then I could help, you know, tell the story, I guess.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, those many documentaries for the Tune My Heart series where you put the story together.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_02: I think all of it, you know, it's hard to trace the path perfectly, you know.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: The dinner conversations, because I'm type A a little bit, I am creative, but I've got a really logistical brain.
• 21:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so when we started dinner conversations, I was like, oh, I don't like that angle.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I I was paying attention to things I didn't pay attention to if you invited me to be on a set.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: It's not mine to to dictate, right?
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_02: So I just participate in however you want me to participate.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_02: But this I was producing, this I was directing, and suddenly I'm like, wait, why do we see that?
• 21:50
  SPEAKER_02: And why is this not lit better?
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_02: And how do we need to f I don't see his eyes, you know, I don't see my whatever, you know, like it helped just craft in a very formulaic way because it's Television show essentially writes a talk show.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_02: So you're not getting ultra creative with shots, but that helps me fashion what am I seeing and what do I like to see?
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: And then even being in the editing process of those conversations, also what do I want to hear?
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so I do think that then was the precursor to building these kind of mini documentaries around music.
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_02: That also I directed the there's one around Bellsberg, The Rich Wall's Record, which we'll talk about.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_02: That um is a six, seven-minute kind of mini documentary that helps trailer that album and really let you know what it's about because it's kind of a concept album, it's a unique way of recording, it's not just going into a studio.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_02: So that was also like part of my storytelling theme.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: But here's the thing I like about where I'm at now with on the cusp of releasing documentaries and being more in that world, is I get to be a part of it personality-wise in the sense of getting to help tell and craft the story with a team of people.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_02: But I don't have to be on camera dictating it, which is because if you don't really like the way I facilitate conversations, then you're gonna tune out.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that's okay.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: We all have our preferences, or maybe you don't like how I talk, maybe you don't like how I look, maybe you don't like how I probe, maybe you just don't like something about my mannerisms.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: We all have preferences, right?
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, then you're gonna tune out of a potentially beneficial conversation.
• 23:15
  SPEAKER_02: But in the film world, Andrew Greer isn't sitting there, though I got to conduct all the interviews.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: You're not gonna hear from me.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so you just get to let the story unfold in the way that we work to present it, hopefully, in a way just like you're saying, it's a it's a softer medium.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_02: It allows me to be confronted with hard truths because I'm alone on my couch watching it, or I'm with my spouse or my kids or whatever.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_02: And so I'm in a safe place, right?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: Where I can go, whoa, why do I feel that way?
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's or I'm not sure I agree with that, you know, and then you have a conversation about it.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_02: And maybe it doesn't need to be agreed with, you know, it's it's again not about being right, it's about providing the a conversation again, I think is a form of a format for communion, you know, for us to come together safely and have dialogue that doesn't have to be about landing somewhere all the time.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: Can we dive into the Rich Mullins project since you mentioned it a minute ago?
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: And I did too, I think a little while back.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm so fascinated by this project.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: I love it.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: I've been a huge Rich Mullins fan since I was a kid, and have always just found his music so inspiring and so moving, as a ton of people have.
• 24:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm curious how this project came about and how you got involved in it, and also if you can share with us what it's like to actually tactically put together a project like this.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's it involves a bunch of people.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: You're recording in a house.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: How does that actually all come together?
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_02: Uh great questions.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, I've been a part of kind of the Rich Mullins thread for about six, seven years, and that started with a book I wrote around the 20th anniversary of his passing called Winds of Heaven Stuff of Earth.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's after one of his own records, uh Spiritual Conversations Inspired by the Life and Lyrics Conversations.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_02: Spiritual Conversations Inspired by the Life and Lyrics of Rich Mullins.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I was a part of writing that, but I also was almost part of like head editing it, and that there were essays from other artists who were involved, the Sarah Groves or Andrew Peterson or Carolyn Aaron's people you would expect to be part of the Rich Legacy.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: So that got me kind of into knowing his brother, David, and and being known as a curator of sorts around things around his life.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: Not the only one, but one of them.
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: So then we have kind of been talking some different folks that are involved with the Rich Thread about a record around the 20th anniversary.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: This fall was the 25th anniversary of his passing.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: And it just kind of kept coming up on some dead ends, and it we it was more going to be a studio record, kind of a normal recording process.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_02: And then Chris Hoisington, who is one third of a great Americana folk band called Brothers McClerg.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: They're based out of Buffalo.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: They have a label up there, also an indie label called Old Bear Records, very cool music, singer, songwriter, folk stuff.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_02: Chris Hoisington didn't even know all this was happening, he kind of was not in touch with all this in Nashville.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_02: And he came upon, stumbled upon Rich Mullins in his adulthood.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: We were about the same age, around 40, and so we grew up with Rich's music, but he didn't, he did not.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: Even though it was around, he didn't remember it until he heard the B sides of the Jesus Record, which if you remember the Jesus Record, which was released in the two CD set.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_02: And one side was artists doing what was going to be Rich's Last Record, the songs on Rich's Last Record.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: He had demoed them.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then this the second side was, or the second CD was Rich's actual demos from just in the little church next to his house, pushing, play and record on a cassette deck and him at a piano or guitar.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: Well, those demos kind of became iconic in their way because it was the last time we heard Rich's voice with intent, you know.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_02: And that's what Chris fell in love with.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: He kind of felt like Chris Hoisington felt that was kind of like Rich was kind of the Woody Guthrie or Bob Dylan of Christian music, right?
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, and he wanted to, so this is Chris's vision up here in Buffalo, wanting to recapture that kind of earthy, straight to tape, no-frills, um, tribute record to Rich.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: And then here we are down here, and kind of came to a dead end on a studio recording.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_02: And Dave Trout, who works um with UTR Media, he's the head of that, which they're great at cultivating a bunch of um kind of gourmet Christian music uh in radio and in podcasts and stuff.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: He knew we've known each other a long time, he's known Chris Hoyson's in a long time, and he said you two need to connect.
• 27:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I think Andrew can help you get this, you know, to the end of the road.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_02: So, all that to say, as we started meeting, we were like, What if we did this in Rich Mullins' house?
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: That may have even been Chris's idea.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I know the owner of Rich's house, which is her name is Connie Hawk.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_02: She's one of Rich's close friends.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_02: She actually started um, Rich went down a long list of people when he started getting kind of nomadic and living in teepees and all that, and then went out to the reservations.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_02: He had this um list of friends that he was like, Who can help take care of my house?
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: It's a little old hundred-year-old house west of Nashville, kind of in the sticks.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_02: And Connie was the only one who said yes.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_02: And so Connie's this great kind of pioneer woman.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_02: Well, then she bought the house from the family after Rich died and has lived in it ever since and welcomed people who have stopped by, who know it's Rich's house, who, you know, just it's an open door policy.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: And so we said, Connie, I know this is crazy, but we want to set up a couple mics.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: We want to record in the living room where Rich wrote a bunch of these songs straight to Tape.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_02: And she was like, Y'all, she has this great accent.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_02: I can't do it, but she's like, Y'all are crazy.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: And um, she said, sure.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_02: So over the course of about two years, we would schedule a couple of days at a time.
• 28:53
  SPEAKER_02: And artists that are on this record, everyone from again, Andrew Peterson, who opens up the record to Amy Grant, Cindy Morgan, and I sang one of Rich's old songs, it's kind of undiscovered, came out to the house, Kevin Max, you know, um Sarah Gros, Carolyn Aaron, again, everybody, Brothers McClure did an incredible job on a song on it.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_02: Um all came out to the house to record.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's a logistical nightmare.
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I can imagine my especially with a bunch of creatives, but that's kind of also something, Kent, that for whatever reason I've been called into oh time and time again.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_02: And sometimes I have to say no, it's not the right thing, but I love Rich's music.
• 29:37
  SPEAKER_02: I love even more than Rich's music.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's an incredible chapel he did right before he died at Wheaton.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_02: That's on YouTube and has kind of become popular.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_02: And he's just a piano, right?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and the things he says in between, his friend Beth Beth uh Lutz from Cincinnati calls it Richard Rance, because she always called him Richard.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_02: But it it's those great things where he's talking about religion and politics and all the things we we're all embedded in, but we refuse to talk about, and we all seem to perceive our faith through, even though it's not really a pure lens, and he just busts it wide open, right?
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_02: And says, Here, I mean, I feel like he's James in the Bible and he's talking about true religion, you know.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_02: He just cuts to the quick.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's it's amazing he died 25 years ago to hear some of the things he said that are still incredibly relevant right now.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: Which what does that tell us?
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_02: Nothing new under the sun, you know, and so all of that kind of rich, you know, uh flavor uh just has always captivated me.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was honored to be a part of producing, executive producing, and being on it, um, you know, kind of being every part of every tit and battle.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_02: And um it's been a labor, sometimes of love and sometimes of complete stress.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_02: But uh we're thrilled that it came out last week, and we're just thrilled that people get it, they get the organic sound.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: It's a field recording, really, right?
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_02: And you hear people talking in between the songs about the song, and Ashley Cleveland making a great clip about Rich never tuning his guitars, and all of that's included so the ideas that you feel like you're in the room.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_02: And we were just amazed, we thought, well, some people will like this, but there'll be a bunch of people who won't get it.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_02: It's not a studio recording, it's not clean, it's not polished.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: We just had nothing but incredible feedback from people about Bellsburg, and it's called Bellsburg because the home is in an unincorporated town west of Nashville called Bellsburg.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: So it's called Bellsburg, The Songs of Rich Mullins.
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_02: The cover is Rich's house.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's just inviting people into that communal space, which I think Rich really was a leader in that in his own era.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm curious about something that this probably seems like kind of an arcane question, but you talking about the the two CD set that Rich Mullins came out with, uh, the Jesus Record, way back when I remember when that came out.
• 32:15
  SPEAKER_00: I was so excited.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this was the mid-90s or so.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe 97, 98, something like that.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was 98, yep.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember driving like a half hour.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, I'm sorry, I drove an hour to a bookstore.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: I was working in a church at the time.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: Drove an hour to Bloomington, Illinois.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was working in northern Illinois at the time at a church.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: So excited to get that double CD setup, like, oh my gosh.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it was so cool.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: But something I really missed about physical media, uh, particularly in Christian music, is seeing all the musicians who played, seeing the lyrics, you know, the liner notes and all that stuff.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, back in the 80s, we would have the cassette tapes and you know, you would get them in like, okay, who's playing?
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_00: Who are the musicians who are playing on this?
• 32:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's the thing that I miss about digital stuff.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: And even though I'm thankful for Spotify and all those things, um I do miss that, you know, seeing who the musicians were and the technicians and the sound people and all those kinds of things.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_02: I I don't think you're alone in that.
• 33:11
  SPEAKER_02: I think, in fact, I think part of the audience we tapped into for this record, and then there's two follow-up records, including a Rich Mollens live recording that's never been heard.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, I think that people are interested in this because we're creating it on vinyl too.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_02: But we did, we were not going to do CDs at first, you know, because people don't have CD players in their car anymore and everyone streams.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_02: And so we thought we would just have it digital and vinyl.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I don't remember who it was a part of the team that said, let's do, I think it's the right thing to do because of liner notes and because of who the audience is.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: We have sold that CD three to one over the vinyl, four to one over the vinyl.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_02: That's crazy.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: It is crazy.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_02: I don't get it.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: I don't understand it.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_02: I really like, I mean, Kent, we're not living in an era where that's real.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: But because we did it, me being a director by nature, I think, I said, let's dig into this artwork.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: So we did a deluxe, um, we did a deluxe booklet for that CD alone.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: That's the only place it lives.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_02: Now I'll have to send you one.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_02: And because as a liner notes person, it has literally every liner note um of the record, which is pretty extensive, and then photos from the sessions.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: We have photographers, several sessions.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_02: And so it just I think it invites you into this.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_02: That's what also the booklet and the liner notes did.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_02: They invite you into the space, they they let you have that sneak peek into what's happening.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_02: It's not just a song that magically appeared on your phone or on your radio.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: It actually had a life that led up to it connecting with you.
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_02: So it's funny you mention that because we legitimately thought, no, that's gonna be a waste of money and funds, uh, bad stewardship, no one's gonna want the C D.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_02: And someone said, I don't know, I think it's worth it, and let's do a cool deluxe booklet with it.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_02: And sure enough, it's it's been very popular.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_00: So where do you where do you actually get records made?
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_00: I assume there have to be companies where you have to submit all your stuff and your artwork and they actually manufacture those.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 35:14
  SPEAKER_02: So there's uh several companies still because vinyl has had an uptick.
• 35:18
  SPEAKER_02: Uh lots of people love records and and vinyls, then manufacturing companies, plus they also start diversifying out of just cassettes and then CDs and all that, they start diversifying into merchandise and stuff.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_02: But um, yeah, there's several companies.
• 35:32
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, one of the largest that's remained intact throughout the years for independent artists is disc makers.
• 35:37
  SPEAKER_02: And actually, even labels you just use disc makers.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just a matter.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it there's no magic to it.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's a matter of submitting design files and submitting audio files, you know, and and approving things.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's all business, you know, it's all practical.
• 35:53
  SPEAKER_02: Think about designing them.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_02: Anything that's physical product, right?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: You you work first in the digital realm and then you put it to tape or you put it to t-shirt or you put it to whatever, and then you look at it and go, that's what I want it to be.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Or we need to tweak it.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_02: So I actually don't mind that process.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's fun to prove things and to see how they come.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_02: I like the I like the process of bringing things to life.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's neat for me.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: But it's not a hard, it's just not a hard uh process.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: It's it can be a detailed process, but it's not hard.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I want to respect your time, but I want to ask kind of a final question.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe this is is sort of in summary of this conversation in some ways, maybe not.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm curious your perspective on this, Andrew.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh you know, back 20 or 30 years ago, I think if you were in Christian music, the goal probably would have been to get signed to a big label.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: You do touring, you make records, and that's kind of what your livelihood is.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: And things have changed radically in the last 20 or 25 years.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: How important would you say it is for artists of all kinds, musicians, writers, um, video creators, podcasters, to be able to own your own content.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: You control the distribution, you control the IP versus selling out to a large corporation or something.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Is that is that a conversation that is happening a lot these days in the in the music industry?
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think it's happened for years.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so I don't think it's a fiery or a a real hot topic.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: I think it's just a matter of conversation.
• 37:26
  SPEAKER_02: I think now it's kind of come full circle to where people know how to weigh their options.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like if I'm the creator, I'm no longer taken advantage of because I sold out to corporations.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_02: I kind of know this for this project, I think it would best be served by a large distribution system, or I don't think I know how to exploit it well.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: So it'd be better to have my income be an advanced that I may never get any more from, but it to go out to people, you know, like there's everything from financial concern to who do you want to listen to it?
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_02: A small group of people, a larger group of people.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes that's more of a consideration than what's the pay, what's the paycheck?
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: It's more like, no, I think this has a wider audience.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: I think this has an opportunity.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's all a little bit of a gamble, right?
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_02: In the sense of you're putting your art out there, you're putting your work out there, and it it sometimes catches a groundswell that surprises you, and sometimes it's received just by a few amount of people.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes there's a large marketing budget that can make more people um see it and who want it, and sometimes there's not that budget, you know, and sometimes 10 years after the fact, something happens and there's a a huge uptick in the sales of something or in the traction with something.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I think I think taking away what I've always done is take away the the mystery of it.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of my friends have seen it so as that have let it kind of diminish their desire to have creative output in the professional realm.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: They've just gone to other professions and they create just for fun or as a hobby.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: I think that's because they treated it all like a mystery.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like there's some magic wand, and some people get the magic wand wanded over them and they didn't.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_02: And it's like, it's just not true.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_02: It's all just at the end of the day, it is business that gets a product from your mind, heart, and hands to a potential buyer or public or watcher or listener or whatever.
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I think dispelling the mystery, you know, of the deal is important.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_02: And and I think looking at it just as objectively as possible to say that one system, you know, can serve one purpose and one can serve another purpose, or maybe there's a way for them to combine.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_02: I think now more than ever, large companies, large record labels even have arms that are doing more independent distribution type work because we're still in an era where like to get a song playlisted, you need to have the relationship, and labels have those relationships.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_02: There's still a gatekeeper in some different areas that are important, but maybe they realize not every artist wants to sign over their entire work, you know, that maybe there's a a partnership that can be had.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that's been happening for years now, where they provide some marketing, but they take less of a and and distribution, but they take less of a cut because you paid for the creation and whatever.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: And and I've been involved in it in all parts, like in my music.
• 40:11
  SPEAKER_02: I recorded and and created and released some totally independently.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_02: Some I created, recorded, and then had distribution deals for, some a label paid for, and I knew kind of what it was up front, and I played into that, and they marketed it and did what they wanted to with it.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_02: I could share about it if I wanted to and all that stuff.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then in the book world, I've only ever done um larger, you know, HarperCollins and and such larger publishing houses.
• 40:38
  SPEAKER_02: That has benefited me there because I have no clue how to exploit a book.
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_02: I have no clue how to get it to an audience.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: I have no clue how to get it into bookstores or get the ebook to be uh searchable and all that stuff.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_02: So that's just a world I haven't delved into.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: And what I realized is that I didn't want to spend that time and energy to do that.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_02: I wanted to write and create the books and let them do their job, potentially for a lower payout.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: But what I also realized is I don't believe being a book writer is my main profession.
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_02: So I felt honored to get to have the opportunities.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: I hope there will be more, but I'm not interested in trying to figure that out to be that's who Andrew Greer is.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: He's an author of this runaway bestseller and you know this stuff.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: So in that case, that's the best outlet for it.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: The film stuff that I'm doing now, because this Carter one, I believed in our little team believed in it before anyone really understood what it was.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_02: So we made it a passion project from the beginning.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: We said we can infrastructure a budget for this through our own, through us and a partner production company.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: So project by project, you can decide who and how can this best be served.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: Andrew, this has been an absolute blast.
• 41:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I actually had a whole other list of questions prepped.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the reason I'm so glad is because you are such a fascinating person.
• 42:00
  SPEAKER_00: You are doing so many interesting things.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: I could talk to you for hours about all this stuff.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh literally, but I appreciate you taking an hour out of your afternoon to chat with me and uh serve our listeners by really giving us some inspirational stuff to think about.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: This has been phenomenal.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_00: So I appreciate your time.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, absolutely, Kent.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_02: I hope it's been helpful in some way and inspirational would always be a good thing.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you for facilitating the conversation.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for listening so well.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_02: That's something we could all do.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 42:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's been my pleasure.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that was a really fun and wide-ranging conversation, and I hope that it inspired you as much as it inspired me to want to do things that are maybe sometimes out of the box.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe do things that aren't your normal lane of creating content or writing.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm just really inspired by Andrew's interest in podcasting, music, music production, writing books, and doing so many really, really cool things.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_00: So many thanks to Andrew for taking the time out to be a guest on today's podcast.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: He is a very busy guy, and I really appreciate him taking time to chat with me today.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: And as always, thank you so much for listening.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_00: I always appreciate my daily writer podcast listeners, and I never want to take for granted the fact that you're taking time out to listen to this show.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: So thanks so much.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: And I also want to encourage you to go to Andrew's, check out all his cool things, which you can find at andrew-greer.com.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now, before I close up shop today, I want to let you know that today's episode is sponsored by Indy Author University, featuring the Book Marketing Mastery course.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: If you're tired of being disappointed by your book sales and you want to sell more books faster, easier, and with more fun than ever, make sure to sign up today.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_00: Bookmarketing Mastery is created by my friend and business coach Honore Corter, who has sold over 4 million books.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: The Spring of course is fantastic, and I really hope that you will check it out.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: You can do so by going to DailyRiderLife.com/slash bookmarketingmastery and using the code daily writer, daily writers on one word, to get 10% off.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for listening, and I'll see you tomorrow.