Latest / Skin Anarchy / Navigating Hollywood, Denim, and Height - A Deeper Look at Fashion Entrepreneurship with Kathryn Brolin

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Navigating Hollywood, Denim, and Height - A Deeper Look at Fashion Entrepreneurship with Kathryn Brolin · Skin Anarchy

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Hey guys, welcome back to Skinky.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_01: This is my speech now.
• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: And we can't be able to do this today.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to dive into this conversation with her.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's going to be so fun to not only learn about her background, her career, her amazing career in acting.
• 0:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um she's a producer.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: She is the founder and uh creative genius behind her own denim brand.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm really excited about this interview.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the show, Catherine.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_01: I'm so excited to host you.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you for having me.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_02: This is exciting.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm so happy to connect this morning.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, likewise.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really excited to dive in.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_01: But I, you know, I want to actually ask you, Catherine, if you could walk us a little bit down memory lane because I know you have this really strong entrepreneur side to your career.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: And I th yes, I've had a very interesting journey thus far.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I think um it started, you know, I'm from Atlanta.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_02: I come from the South.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_02: I grew up in in Atlanta and I moved out to Los Angeles when I was around 21, I want to say, to work on a film.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_02: I had um after college, I got my my degree in uh magazine journalism from the University of Georgia from their um Grady uh School of Journalism.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it was such a great program, but I knew that I didn't want to go into journalism.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_02: I actually wanted to go into film.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I studied film theory and um did you know a few different kind of minors and at Georgia and got a very like well-rounded education there and it and it kind of guided me down the road of film, which I loved.
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I got a job right after college working for a producer, um, and kind of started my career in the film business that way, and was just learning from some really dynamic, really wonderful people from producers to directors to actors.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_02: I was just um trying to kind of be around and just get my foot in the door in any way I could.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was just, you know, kind of working and then moved out to LA, um, worked on a project out there and just really fell in love with it and knew that I wanted to be out there full time.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but really started to get kind of like the acting bug and was never so courageous as to go for it in terms of like my education in college.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_02: And then once I was in LA and I was surrounded by some really dynamic, really incredibly interesting people, I started to see that my journey to it was going to be a little bit different than, you know, say the people that I came up with that were studying acting in Atlanta.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_02: There was no real way to it.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and that's what I found incredibly difficult in the beginning, was just like, how do you start?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_02: And for me, started by walking into a modeling agency.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: I had done some modeling in Atlanta, um, knew that that wasn't really going to take me very far in that particular ecosystem at the time.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_02: So I came, I was like, okay, I'm I'm just gonna really go for it in LA.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_02: So while I was working on projects in LA as an assistant, I was also doing modeling work.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: And by way of that, met an acting agent and started kind of going out on auditions that way.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so I was just kind of going at that pace for a while.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_02: I was working, my day job was in production.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then I, you know, in any time that I could fit in, I was doing modeling jobs and just really grinding.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was just on the grind and learning a lot, figuring out what I wanted.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_02: And um, because I was surrounded by models a lot of the time, I started to see that there was this gap in the marketplace for genes, particularly for tall girls.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I've always had this itch in me to start my own brand.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: I just wasn't ever sure what it was.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I've always like sketched different ideas for either a shoe company or a hat company or a clothing company.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_02: I've always had that in me too.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so I just started to see this need.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_02: You know, girls were talking about needing jeans that were long enough for them.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I started to, as I was like sitting in audition rooms, I started to, you know, or casting rooms or whatever, I was starting to sketch out what this idea for a line would be.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and had no idea about it, had no idea how to start, had never worked in manufacturing.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, I was working in production at the time.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I was putting on like, I was taking off my, you know, kind of assistant hat and putting on my, you know, bubbling entrepreneur hat and um and just starting to educate myself by reading and researching.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_02: And it was the strangest thing.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_02: I was walking down my street.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_02: I was living in Santa Monica at the time.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_02: I was walking down the street in my neighborhood.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: I was going to the beach and I um and I heard, hey, and I looked up and out of her window was my neighbor.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Her name's Renee, and she was like, I've never really talked to you before.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Do you want to come in for a cup of tea?
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, sure, why not?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, you know, I had never talked to these people before, but I had seen them around.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: And so I went in and I met with her and her husband, Billy.
• 4:56
  SPEAKER_02: And um turns out these two people who I've been living next door to for years had their own denim brand and it was called Billy Blues.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_02: And they had it for years and it was incredibly successful.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_02: They did very well, and they so I they just asked me, like, what are you, like, what are you up to?
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_02: What are you looking to do?
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was talking about, you know, auditioning and I wasn't, you know, kind of booking the work that I really wanted to book, which nowadays I understand why, because I was just starting and that's not the way it goes usually.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_02: You usually grind for years and years and years before you make any sort of dent in the industry.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I was just talking about, you know, and I also have this other thing that I'd love to do eventually.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: I just know I have no idea how to do it.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_02: I just want to start a line of jeans for tall girls.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: And they're like, well, we can help you out with that.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_02: We were actually in that industry forever.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_02: And so they took me in their car to downtown LA, introduced me to all their contacts.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_02: And during that, that was just really my like research phase.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I was just absorbing so much information so fast, and I was writing everything down.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: I had no idea what it took to start a brand or how much it would cost.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but I did have what I did have was passion for it.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: I had a massive drive.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: And so Renee and Billy really kind of guided me through that process of creating my first line of production.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and they were like, you know, you're gonna if you're not careful, you can spend a million dollars doing this.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, Well, I don't have a million dollars, so I guess that's not an option.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_02: I just gotta get real scrappy and figure this out.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: And I used my, you know, I used my savings to start my line.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: And I and I started with four styles, and they were the four styles that I really wanted for myself.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_02: And I did bare minimum.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_02: I create which in, you know, in the fashion industry, it depends on who you're using and whether or not you're creating your, you know, your product in the states or if you're doing it internationally.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: For me, I was using people um to make my product in downtown LA, and they were fine, you know, helping me start this, but not happy necessarily about the fact that I was making like 100 to 120 units for style.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and I just put it out there.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_02: This was back when like social media was just starting to catch fire for a lot of young entrepreneurs and people were figuring out how to use it in that way of like launching brands and having their brands just be online.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: I just put it out there to my followers.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_02: I just said, I've created this thing.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_02: Do you like it?
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it was because everybody knows somebody who's tall or has a sister or cousin or something who's tall.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's definitely a niche brand, but it's not for everybody.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_02: But everybody knows somebody who might want to have it or use it and oh my god, yeah, but it caught fire really quickly.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: And it all of a sudden I was sold out.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh my gosh, this is wild.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_02: I have a real business on my hands.
• 8:07
  SPEAKER_02: So we went back to the drawing board, did another small capsule collection, did that run of production, sold out on that one too.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_02: And along the way, by the way, I was just, you know, in my mind failing because I was making so many mistakes.
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_02: I was paying too much over here, I was doing too much over there, not doing enough over here.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's not just about manufacturing or creating your product, it's about sales too, which I had no experience in.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_02: So I was really just pulling from my resources and trying to get started.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_02: Um, little did I know we were already off to the races and people were writing us up.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_02: We had Vogue comp.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: We had all, you know, all of these publications were wanting to write about the brand because it was a neat, it was for a niche.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um and so since then, you know, I've had different designers come to do collabs.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_02: Um, Cynthia Raleigh being the biggest, you know, influence on me to date in terms of mentorship and just inspiration and create creative inspiration.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_02: She said, What if we did something together and we did one product together that just like took off and it was just all of a sudden we were, you know, exposed to this whole New York market too.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: And um, I low, I owe a lot to her just for like, you know, my own education in the industry and my own inspiration for the industry.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: It was just, it was a lot of learning happened during that time.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so lo and behold, we're still in it and we're still going and we're growing.
• 9:36
  SPEAKER_02: And now we have this manufacturing leg to our business that we not only do our direct-to-consumer brand, but we also have, you know, we manufacture for other brands as well.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_02: We're still still doing our collaborations.
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_02: So it's just been a real um process of learning and growing and always coming back to this place of I love owning a brand and I love having my own unique voice show through that brand.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_02: And as I evolve as a human, I feel like my brand evolves too, you know, and that's really an interesting kind of reflection to see.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that's kind of the, and as, you know, as my brand grows, I I have other things that I do too.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, my life is very well-rounded in terms of my creative output, my creative expression.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: And I have, you know, different parts of my career that are that are growing as well in film and um photography.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: I studied photography in school too.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_02: So I've never really laid that down.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_02: And that's been a really lovely um kind of thing to see grow as well.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I love that.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's what initially, like when I first learned about everything that you're kind of like, you know, you you've got your hands, and I was just like, oh my gosh, she's such a multitasker, you know, like there's so many different things that you're like really taking on.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I really admire that because I think as women, we don't talk about that enough, you know, in terms of like there's a lot of things.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of times women are always multitasking and creating beautiful things, you know, along the way.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's part of from what I've understood after interviewing, like, you know, entrepreneurs, that's part of the entrepreneurial spirit, you know, is this idea of like, okay, you know, let's take it on, let's see what happens.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I love how you explained, like, you know, getting into the the the actual brand itself, you know.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: I think with fashion, there's a huge um, I don't know if if it's a stigma, but there's a kind of a haze there, Catherine.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I don't know if you mean know what I mean, but like I as a consumer, I never understand like what goes behind just launching a fashion brand, you know, like I always feel like it's so much work, you know, in terms of like who do you know?
• 11:47
  SPEAKER_01: How do you get in contact with them, you know, with textiles and what all this?
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_01: So if you know, I've my main question for you is like, what were some of the hurdles that initially, you know, because you were going into, you know, starting a fashion brand, especially for, like you said, a niche audience, what were some of the hurdles that you had to deal with initially?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_02: The first thing that comes to mind is my thought that I had to do everything myself.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_02: Because I was so desperate to not spend too much money.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_02: I was so scared of going broke.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_02: And I um and I was very, very tired.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: I it now looking back on it, I'm like, oh, you really did it, didn't you?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_02: But I really bootstrapped it and I and I was very, very spendthrifty and just made sure that I wasn't spending too much.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: And um and I see that my reason for doing that was right, but I didn't invest my my biggest hurdle, I think, was not having enough help in building a brand in the beginning, because Cynthia Raleigh actually gave me a great piece of advice.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_02: She said, you build your community for your brand, and your community will build your brand for you.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: So if you bring the people together, if you create your, if you kind of corral your audience, then your audience will naturally build your brand for you if it's a brand that is worthwhile.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: So people get excited about the product, they post about it, they talk about it.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and there's so much to be said for that, but you have to get it to them.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_02: And there's so many different ways of getting it to them, be it Instagram or Pinterest or, you know, like actual trunk show sale.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's there's so many different ways of sponsored posts.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: There's so many different ways of getting your stuff in front of people, but you have to be tactful about how you do it.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: And um, so in the beginning, I just thought organically it would grow.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_02: And we did for a while.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then I thought, oh my gosh, I'm actually I'm designing the product, I'm manufacturing the product, I am creating my own content, I'm doing these photo shoots.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, how am I?
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: And I did, I suffered massive burnout.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_02: And only then did I say, okay, I have to add to my team here and allow for other people to let their talents and their skills show through and to just trust that the people that I'm bringing on board are there for a reason and are gonna like align with my voice here and we're gonna do something special together.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: So that was probably my biggest hurdle is not having enough help in the beginning.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_02: And it's probably why a lot of people don't make it because it's expensive to have help.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you have to make it financially worthwhile for people to help your brand.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_02: But there's ways to do it.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you can have people not on salary, you can pay them, you know, you can have them doing um, you know, you can have them be independent contractors as opposed to like full-on in people.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, that was um, that was one big one.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_02: And then another one was listening too much to um, you know, I would put a lot of onus on what other people were telling me, like how to be successful.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_02: And what I really came to find out was that nobody is doing this work for me.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_02: It all has to be of my guiding and of my own method if I'm going to stay engaged with it enough and passionate enough about it to make it work.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people aren't sitting in my office like doing my own work for me.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: So there's only so much power I can allow for other people to have over my, you know, and influence my decisions with.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: I I I really had to kind of say, okay, I'm putting my blinders on and I'm just gonna do what I think is best and what feels really good.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that, you know, that spans to now.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we've we've really hit our niche hard.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: I really, I've like I said, I've evolved a lot as a person and I'm passionate about growing the brand.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and with that comes an interest in other products.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_02: You know, we're about to launch silk dresses and you know, wool sweaters and all of these like beautiful products that we've spent some time developing because I'm passionate about them.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: So while some people will say, just do one thing, do it well, don't do anything other than denim, just be the only a denim brand, and da-da-da.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: I I am really just kind of listening to my own inner voice saying, you have to build this brand out and create this lifestyle that people want to buy into.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then that's I mean, honestly, I I'm telling you, even in addition to your inner voice, that you should expand because the niche that you've targeted is a niche I fall into as well.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm very, you know, when I learned about your brand, Catherine, I it really hit home for me.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: No joke.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I am five ten.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: So for me growing up, even I remember, you know, like I could never find the right pair of jeans or they didn't sit right, or you know, there were so many issues, right?
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it just made you feel like a giant.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like I always like make the joke, like, you know, um, I don't, you know, of like, oh, I feel like an Amazon, you know, in in America, because we're we're always catering to the petite style, you know, the the really like kind of like in that five-five range or like whatever, and that's fine, you know, every woman has the right to feel beautiful in the clothing that you're wearing, every person does.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: But at the end of the day, like that equality just wasn't there, right?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I I I felt that as a consumer, that you know, um, it isn't there and I don't feel like I'm being included.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so for me, when you were talking about, you know, you want to build a brand that you're gonna put things out there and your community will help build your brand, I completely understand what you say there.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because, you know, for me, as being somebody who went through the struggle as a consumer, when someone is introducing something like this to me that does fit that niche, you know, like requirement I have for myself, I'm gonna back them with all of the passion and you know enthusiasm I have as a consumer because it's hitting a point, not just like, oh, here's a white space in the industry.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, it's a white space in my own life, right?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: As a consumer.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I I really resonate with like, you know, where you pinpointed like this is something that I want to do and I want to put it out there because, you know, when it comes to fashion, it's it's very easy to feel left out.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like, you know, it's it's really easy, just like beauty.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I talk a lot to a lot of beauty brands and we talk about things like, for example, you know, finding the right shade of lipstick, right?
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_01: Or for for colored women, um, you know, it's been always a struggle.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we talk about all these topics, but fashion is also there, you know, where it's like being tall almost for a lot of us growing up, you know, it feels like you just, you know, something's wrong with you, even with something like shoe size, something's wrong with me.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: Why can't I ever find my size?
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of thing.
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's a very sensitive topic for a lot of women, you know.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: So I really applaud you for taking this head on and and putting it out there because we do we need that, you know.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: I'm definitely in that niche that you uh, you know, you're targeting.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_02: That kind of rep that representation for people that feel like they're underserved, you know, by everybody's product offering.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_02: I I understand now why that is, is because when you are spending the type of money that it takes to to create a brand and sustain a brand.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_02: And now I understand the inner workings of that.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_02: You're trying to play to the most amount of people possible.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_02: So you're playing to the middle.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I understand that.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: I I get I get why that's the case, but um, women are only getting taller.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I see that there is so many more ways to access the c access a customer now.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_02: And so, yeah, I did feel like if I'm being underrepresented with my height, I have a feeling that other girls are going through the same thing.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_02: And I just, you know, in in being able to kind of have that little think tank in different casting offices where I was talking to girls who were 5'10, 5'11, like I am, um, and taller, and everybody was complaining about the same thing.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: I thought, oh my gosh, we've we've definitely got an issue here.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_02: And that's where, you know, that's why we I was sitting there one night thinking, like, what am I going to call this thing?
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_02: And all of a sudden, out of nowhere, I I had heard the term mid-heaven.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: And it's an uh it's a term used in uh astrology, I think.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: It was just one of those, it was one of those weird words that it just kind of stored itself in the back of my memory bank.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: I was just, I hadn't accessed it for a while, but it came.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: And I looked it up, and it's the highest point that the sun hits in its daily traverse of the sky.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_02: And I loved what that did to me emotionally when I read the definition of that term because it made me want to hold my shoulders back and it maybe want to be confident and just like look upwards, right?
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_02: And as tall girls, you're always slumping down and trying to meet other people's eyes and come into conversation where everybody's having conversation a little bit below your eye level.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought, God, mid-heaven's gotta be the gotta be the brand name because it does.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_02: It makes me want to, you know, just be confident in my height and look towards my mid-heaven.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_02: Where's my mid-heaven?
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why we put find your mid-heaven in all of our products because um, because that's really the brand ethos.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you wear the clothes because they make you feel confident and good.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I love that.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: No, that's really cool.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's really cool.
• 21:16
  SPEAKER_01: I like that because you know, I was wondering uh where you got mid-heaven.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: I really like the name, by the way.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's really cool, and it makes you feel comfortable.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_01: I I think the name just resonates.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: It makes you feel comfortable, like you're you're good, you know, you're safe with this brand.
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: And that's so huge, I feel like, because you know, um, when it comes to things that we are, you know, like for example, if you're gonna spend a pretty penny on a pair of jeans, which I've always done because I've always like you know, we talked about always been taller.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: I've always had to go the extra mile to find that great pair of jeans, right?
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's like it really is an investment, you know, in yourself and financially, but also because you get attached to the items that make you feel beautiful, you know what I mean?
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a level of comfort there.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_01: So the name I really love the name.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Name.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think it resonates, you know, with that emotion.
• 22:02
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, one thing I wanted to ask you though, Catherine, and I think this is so um, it's been kind of mind-boggling for me to understand as just a normal consumer.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I know you come from the modeling world, um, is this weird um double standard in a way, I would say, you know, where because models, when I look at runway models and I look at modeling, I mean, the idea of height is just it's uh a requirement, right?
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what I've understood as a consumer is that models are tall, you know, it's it's a kind of like a representation of beauty in a in a way, you know, that's how it's portrayed.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_01: But then when we come into like just everyday retail and everyday, you know, just brands, um, that gets lost somewhere, you know.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so what what are your thoughts on that?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_01: You know, that transition from the world of modeling, the world of like runway or whatever it might be, you know, um, in that industry, and then transitioning over to um daily fashion for women worldwide, you know, what's your perspective on that?
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, again, I mean, I think that it just is about playing to the middle and trying to gain as much access to the biggest amount of people possible when you're in when you're a brand owner.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I totally understand that.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_02: I remember doing um, I would do shows like you know, runway shows, and I'd try on the product by big designers.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: I would love the product so much.
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: These these pants, jeans, whatever would have the longest inseam, 38-inch inseam, which is like for a tall girl, it's just heaven.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I would be so in love, take pictures of the product, wait for it to come out, and then go find it on the rack to be cut five inches shorter for some reason.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I'd be like, wait, where's the length?
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I I knew, I knew right then that you know, this was there was samples and then there was actual run of production and um and the difference between the two.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: And I agree with you about the double standard, but I think that it's that, you know, kind of the aspirational thing about being a model, you know, and what models represent, what models are.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_02: It's this like, you know, you're kind of tapping into that need in people to be beautiful.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_02: And that's and I think there's a lot of darkness there.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot that, um, especially when you're working in the industry, really on either side of the industry, whether you're um a consumer of it or you're working in it, um, you're still kind of subject to that darkness, where whatever that disparity is between real and fake.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and the truth is, is that all of my closest model friends and a lot of people that I'm still friends with, um, who came from that industry, I've since gotten out.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of people are still working in it.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but you know, all of them have had their own journey with what beauty means to them and having to kind of define themselves within it.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and some were better at it than others.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I think building my my brand really helped kind of build this little bubble around me where I don't feel like I fall into that darkness anymore so much.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: Um, probably because I'm making product that actually fits me and I feel beautiful in my product.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: And also just having like kind of a communication, an open line of communication with other brand owners that are making things that really resonate for me too.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: And that spans outside of just the aesthetic or the look or the fit of it, you know, their brand ethos plays into it as well.
• 25:27
  SPEAKER_02: How much they're doing for the environment, how much they're giving back, you know, all of that kind of plays for me.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it does for the average consumer these days, which is which is incredible.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_02: I think we've hit this new spot.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: Um, this age of consumer consumerism is paying attention to other things nowadays, which is wonderful, you know.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: I love that.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I agree with you.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've definitely had, you know, like this kind of shift, like you said, you know, there's a lot of spotlights on a lot of different factors that make us resonate with a brand now.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I I agree.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's a wonderful thing.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: And one of the questions though, and you kind of addressed it just now, was I was gonna ask you, you know, were there brands that you were like, these are tried and true brands for me, you know, personally.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_01: And were they were there any brands that you kind of like took inspo from, whether it was that feeling you had wearing their, you know, their products and you know it worked for you?
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, were there was there anything like that in terms of the inspiration behind the line?
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: You know, oh my gosh, yes.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_02: I remember, and this is, you know, not to give a plug for another brand, which is probably not a very smart thing to do, but I will because she's built and what she's done and how she's been able to stick around for as long as she has.
• 26:44
  SPEAKER_02: But Paige, I remember Paige being like, you know, when Page came up, I um I saved all my pennies to buy a pair of page jeans because they were longer.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I got taller and I surpassed the height needs of the average page customer.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but there was a real sweet spot there where I was like, gosh, every time I put on a pair of her jeans, I feel good and I feel confident and I feel comfortable.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember being like one of the only ones, my friends, that had those because they were so long.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: Um I feel like that was one of my original inspirations, honestly.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: And then I also, you know, I take inspiration from a lot of different brands, even still, you know, I really respect what, you know, Patagonia has done.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_02: I really respect what Cynthia Raleigh has done and being able to stay so incredibly relevant to so many different age groups and so many different demographics.
• 27:41
  SPEAKER_02: And like she is doing, she's done something so incredible.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, so yeah, even still to this day.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: And then I, and then because of the age of social media and you know, our access to each other on Instagram now, um, I see small, tiny, like tiny little brands that are somehow able to kind of make little ripples.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, wow, this is so cool.
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_02: I never would have discovered you because before social media, I was shopping at all the big department stores and that was it.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: So if you weren't in department stores, I I didn't see you, you know.
• 28:16
  SPEAKER_02: So now we're able to kind of see how, you know, even small brands, people that are driven by a passion for sustainability or a passion for a certain type of customer, or you know, we're able to see all of that these days.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_02: And um, and to especially have that direct communication, that opportunity for direct communication has been wonderful too.
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: No, I I love that you I love that you you shouted out, Sembrazzo.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you for doing that.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I honestly I think um lesson competition, it's almost like I'm even getting your tips, you know, on like what brands you loved, because like, you know, I think it is a whole community.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like when you're just, you know, when you fall into this realm of like I guess the tall girl, right?
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_01: Growing up, like you're always looking for recommendations.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, That let me ask, you know, why not?
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, because I know that it's a hard niche, you know, it is.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: And having grown up, uh, you know, relating to it, I can I know that there were for me brands I grew up with that I was like, yeah, this is it.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: And then when something got discontinued, it was like life-altering, you know, like what am I gonna do?
• 29:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, where am I gonna find that next awesome outfit or whatever?
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, that's why I asked you, but I I want to shift gears a little bit because I know you have all this amazing experience in Hollywood and and just the film side of things.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_01: And um, you know, even with like with that, I I have such a uh, you know, I have a hard time when it comes to like celebrity brands.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: I always wonder is like, is there more pressure on you to make sure that you're doing things in the, you know, in a more pristine way, in a more specific way, where there's no room for like, you know, um, I guess people criticizing.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, do you ever have you ever felt that pressure because you do come from this background of being an actor and then, you know, just having that extra part of your life, right?
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: And then being under the having a brand and then being scrutinized even more, or do you ever feel like that?
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, if that makes sense.
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, yeah, it makes a lot of sense.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I think everybody has been, you know, somewhat impacted by the eyeballs of others, whether they want to admit it or not.
• 30:24
  SPEAKER_02: But going back to what I was saying um earlier on about having to put blinders on, yeah, I think I had to, I just did that just naturally because I think I I did that naturally because I didn't want I had two babies.
• 30:40
  SPEAKER_02: I had two, I had two babies in the last five years, and balancing this is not to go off on a whole tangent here, but balancing work with babies has never been easy for me.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_02: I always default to the caregiving of my kids.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_02: Like I never want to be away from them.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I found that um having to do both, you know, having to run a brand and not just run a brand, but grow a brand and show up for the collaborations that I was taking on, um, which means that more that I have partners and I have more people in the room, um, doing that alongside being a new mom was just not natural for a while.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I I did, I felt like my life exploded a little bit.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_02: And so if I um which has all been in like such an incredible gift, and it's all been because that's the way it's supposed to be.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_02: And I know that I feel guided by a bigger, greater power than just my own volition here.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_02: But I um, but I really felt like I needed to put those blinders on to whatever the expectation was in order to self-sustain and to stay sane.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_02: And um so a lot of that, and just like, you know, how much you I've I feel like I've done like a deep dive on myself and my relationship with my in with Instagram and you know, naturally like putting yourself out there, putting your brand out there and having people ring in, which has happened in good ways and bad from the very start, the very second I put something up on Instagram about what I was doing.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_02: There's always going to be somebody that challenges it or says that it's not good enough or that it's wrong.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's just the nature of the world that we live in.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like I have gotten a little bit more bulletproof to those voices.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: But I think the strongest voice was my own in the beginning.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, is this good enough?
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, is this the right time?
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: And I did.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: I spent a lot of time building it before I was, you know, courageous enough to put it out there to the world.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I did.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_02: I call I called my, I think I called my mom.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_02: It was either my mom or my sister, I think it was my mother, and I just said, uh, January 15th.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_02: January 15th is when I'm starting it.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_02: It January 15th is when I'm going to put my product out there for the world to to buy.
• 32:53
  SPEAKER_02: Like that's that's the I'm no, no question about it.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_02: That's the date whether I'm ready for it or not, that's happening.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the date that we went for.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I think at that time, I just kind of put my helmet on and just went, here we go.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so um, the years thereafter, I just kind of said, what works for me?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_02: What's gonna make me feel like a good mom at the end of the day?
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_02: What's gonna make me feel like a good family member at the end of the day?
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_02: If it means that I have to go at a slower pace, then so be it.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: But because I am really making this what I want it to be and I'm not on the leash of anybody else right now to make it anything other than what it is, I'm gonna go at my own pace.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: And now my kids are a little bit older.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_02: Now they're, you know, they have their little school in their lives and and I do have more time back and I have more help, not just not with them, but I mean with the business.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_02: I've really hired well and I have a little team around me that I really trust and believe in so much.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: So it all kind of happened organically to the point where I those voices started to get much quieter.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um that makes so much sense.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's such good advice as well for anyone that's tuning in, because we have a lot of entrepreneurs that tune in, and I think you know, that's one of my biggest like uh curiosities, right?
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's gotta be really hard to start something brand new, especially like you said, in a small niche, in a niche requirement, especially with fashion, like I said, and and then managing those expectations from consumers.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_01: I think, you know, when I look at celebrity-founded brands and you know, anything someone from this background, whatever they do, right, I always feel like there's a lot of extra scrutiny involved, you know, from just general consumers, fans, whatnot.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I just uh there's a lot of empathy that goes out from my end because that's gotta be difficult.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's difficult enough being an entrepreneur, but then when you're already in the public eye, when you're in that spotlight already and you create something, I'm sure there's a lot that comes with it.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I was like, you know, what was that like?
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: Because I I mean, entrepreneurs always say, you know, like, yeah, we're always dealing with people not liking, you know, what you're creating, or there's a lot of criticism or whatnot.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: But then having to deal with that on top of managing this career that you have with film and then your personal life, yeah, I'm sure that's a lot, you know, and but but it sounds like you're handling it so beautifully.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I I liked what you said.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that's interesting.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I think that I think that you just kind of have to tune people out in a in a in a graceful way because and it's a fine line to walk because as a brand owner, you're trying to stay in touch with your customer, you're trying to listen to them and you're trying to, you know, service what people are wanting while also staying true to your own vision.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_02: So sometimes things fall off, sometimes things don't, you know, sometimes you go in a different direction than what your audience is wanting.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes you stay on, you know, you stay bridled by that, and sometimes you take that bridle off.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_02: And it's different for everybody.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: But I do know just coming from the experience in certain industries that are quick to judge um the cosmetic, I think I just had to, just for my, just for my own sanity, just say your life is your life.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_02: Your life is not anybody else's.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_02: So people can say what they want.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: But um ultimately at the end of the day, it's about me and my and my customer, which we say our girl.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's me and our girl.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_02: What does our girl want?
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_02: What does she want to see?
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know, um, when everybody was saying that skinny jeans was out, our skinny jeans were still performing very well.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_02: You know, there's a there's the mass, there's the voice of the masses, and then there's the actual voices.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_02: And you can see it reflected in the sales, you can see it reflected on our on our Instagram and our DMs.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_02: You know, people write me emails all the time.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's directly, and it's so nice.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's so nice to stay in touch while also saying, okay, I care about this.
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_02: I care about you, I care about making um silk goods right now.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_02: This is exciting for me, and it's something that I'm staying excited about.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_02: And the other brand owners that I look to for mentorship or advice, they're doing that too.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that as long as you're staying true to yourself, people will see that genuine kind of nature and want to follow suit.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_02: And because you love it, maybe they'll love it too.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_02: Um it's a dance, isn't it?
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: It sounds like I mean it's it sounds wonderful though.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: I I really, really admire you for taking this on and doing it.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I I think that a lot of times, you know, people get so caught up in, you know, just to add to like what we were just talking about, people get so caught up in like what are what is everybody gonna say?
• 37:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, is it gonna land correctly?
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Is it gonna be, you know, we just get so caught as human beings, it's human nature.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think there's a lot that can be learned from just what you've described in your own journey, you know, in terms of when you are contemplating becoming an entrepreneur or starting something new, like just yeah, like you said, put those blinders on, you know, and just do it and see what happens.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's really solid, you know.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah, I'll also while also creating a business plan and being as structured for it as you possibly can.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_02: You know, business plan was one of the greatest tools in the beginning because it caused me to get very, very clear about what I was doing and why I was doing it.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's that's you know, you kind of you filter all of that incredible inspiration and drive and passion through this vehicle of structure.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_02: Um that's how it had to exist for me at least.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted to actually, I wanted to mention something that I found to be really cool about your about about the um the products you have um, you know, in Midheaven, because I find it really cool that you have flare options still, because I I haven't seen those around in a long time.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm a millennial and I was when I was perusing the site and I was uh checking everything out.
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: I like that you're the the styles that you've put out there are still very um, in a way, nostalgic for those of us, you know, that grew up.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like I grew up as a millennial, like I said, and uh flare jeans were the thing, you know, and I remember they were a huge pain point for me because it would cut off too short or you know what I mean?
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: It just doesn't fall right.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I liked when I was purchasing, like you had mentioned, the skinny jean was still one of your best sellers.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you know, it's so cool because I think they're just I mean, from what I've noticed, the the products are just made so beautifully and they're you know made right.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like it's still that feeling of this is my pair of jeans for this outfit, you know, or or for this occasion.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that really comes through.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I just want to say that as a consumer, I know that it's wonderful to hear.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, because like I think that there were certain styles that were just, I mean, I love the, for example, the bell bottom flair style, you know, and to this day, when I'm like in my casual clothes, that's what I go to, you know, and I think like there's a lot to be said with fashion when it comes to staples in fashion, you know what I mean?
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like they just don't, it's not about trends, it's not about, you know, whatever all the time.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, trends have their place, but there are staples in what you consider to be flattering on you.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I think for a lot of tall women, I mean, I speak for myself, but I maybe some people can relate that there are just, for example, for the flair style, it looks really good, I think, on tall women, you know, the bell bottom style looks really good.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I really like that you have those styles available in your line and they're there and they're there to stay.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I it's wonderful to see that, you know, because that can also be a struggle is finding that style again that you were used to maybe 10 years ago, right?
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: But you still want to have it now in your routine and in your wardrobe.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: So I I found that to be really cool.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_02: There's yeah, there was there was when I was first, I sket, like I said, I sketched four styles that we started with in the very beginning.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_02: This was back in what was it, 2018, I guess is when we launched.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: I um, so I had been working on this since 2016, 2017.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_02: I um I sketched that first pair of of bootcut, you know, slightly bell bottom jeans.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_02: And I was it was because I really, really wanted it for myself and I could never find it.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I just thought, dang, if I could make this, I have a feeling that 200 other people are gonna want this too.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_02: And sure enough, it's the one that we've had to cut production on so many times because we keep selling out of it.
• 41:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's like one of the, it's like it's it's having our brand is about having those staples.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_02: They're elevated, they're those staples that will live in your closet hopefully forever.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: I've never had a pair of Mid Oven jeans fall apart on me.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's like one of those amazing staples that you can just grab when you need it.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_02: It's it doesn't have to be an everyday gene.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_02: Um, but the quality is so good that it could be your everyday gene.
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_02: So I didn't want to just play to one age group.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_02: I didn't want to play to one demographic, except for the girls that were tall.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_02: That was how I knew I was gonna make my way into the industry, which is an incredibly oversaturated, very competitive industry.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: And so I said, okay, if I'm gonna target this niche as it is, I'm gonna go for as many people in this niche as possible.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and so, and then we did.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_02: We started, we started to cut everything in two different inseams because what I was finding, I went ahead, I I opened a store in Malibu.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_02: I had this unique opportunity to have a boutique um very near James Purst and uh and a few other high-end boutiques right there in Malibu.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_02: And and so I went for it.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: And because we were niche, you know, I had my my long jeans everywhere, and people were coming in.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_02: We were doing events there.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_02: It was so wonderful to be part of the community in that way.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: And we were finding that everybody was coming in with somebody who was not tall.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_02: And they were like, what about me?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: And all of a sudden, like the the script had been flipped, and it was like the people that were not tall were the ones that didn't have anything to shop.
• 43:05
  SPEAKER_02: And so we started cutting everything into different end seams.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_02: We've got our, you know, quote unquote regular, and then we've got our tall, and and that has been wonderful because we've been able to offer, you know, the same quality and the beautiful washes and our beautiful silhouettes, but for the non-tall people as well.
• 43:25
  SPEAKER_02: Um, and that to kind of bump everything up and expand our audience a bit.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um I love that.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: I I love that you did that though.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that's that's really good that you're being inclusive because I'm not gonna lie, there are a lot of brands out there that are made for shorter people that are not as inclusive.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you for being inclusive.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and we do, yeah, we've got our sizing is we do extended sizing, and um, like I said, we're about to do many non denim products as well, and all of those launch in the next month and a half.
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it's a really interesting time.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_02: be doing this podcast and um and to be talking about it because all of it had we've just been grinding and doing so much work behind the scenes and all of that is about to be debuted so I'm really excited.
• 44:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's so exciting.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: Congratulations.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to see everything that comes out.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.
• 44:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah no I wanted to one question I do have for you though and this is something maybe I'm I'm crazy and I'm the only one that's noticed this but I feel like there's an international um like understanding of height um you know in terms of for example let let me give you some context um I for I come from India like my family's from India and we're from North India and a lot of north indian people are very tall right but when you go to South India there the height kind of changes and there's a lot more you know shorter heights and and whatnot.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_01: But then also places like Denmark for example I remember the first time I went to Copenhagen I saw nothing but tall people it was like heaven for tall people there were just you know everybody all the women were just these beautiful gorgeous blonde bombshells and they were all like five ten you know just gorgeous and I was like I feel normal you know being here and um I'm just curious you know what has your perception been you know I you know be given that you've been in the modeling and the acting realm you know from an international's perspective do you think that as Americans we have um less options available compared to the rest of the world or how do you how do you think about that you know that whole dynamic from an international scale when it comes to height and the products that are available in fashion I mean certainly certainly we have a different thing going on here.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah if you're gonna go to places like that yes you're gonna get totally you know I was just we were traveling um last month through Europe and um went to a few different places we were in uh Italy we went to Amsterdam we went to Scotland we were we were kind of like doing you know we were just kind of going wherever the wind blew us which was really nice and the fashion that I had access to was so inspiring.
• 46:03
  SPEAKER_02: It was so cool to see what people are wearing outside the United States and it got me thinking about denim trends you know and a lot of the reasons why we find cool what we find cool is because it originates somewhere else and then it makes its way over to us.
• 46:20
  SPEAKER_02: So um I'm we're seeing a lot with denim trends right now and and a lot of experimentation and people getting very um you know kind of making their genes their own and adding appliques and uh you know crystal rhinestones and patches and all these like really cool things and ripping their jeans to shreds and acid wash and all this like really exciting just weird cool stuff.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: And I saw so much of that most everybody where I was in the places that I was thought about their fashion.
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_02: You know at one point in Amsterdam my husband and I were talking about it we were like we're not seeing any lazy dressing.
• 47:03
  SPEAKER_02: Everybody is obviously thinking about what they're putting on their bodies every day.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_02: And then you go we went to London for a few days and that's just you know fashion on steroids like certain parts of London people are incredibly thoughtful about their fashion and what they're putting on their bodies and and it's um and it's really cool.
• 47:24
  SPEAKER_02: It's just cool to see how much fun people have with their clothes.
• 47:28
  SPEAKER_02: You know I say all this as I'm sitting in our ranch right now in in a dusty pair of like maybe one of the original Midheaven samples and a white t-shirt that has like apple juice from one of my kids on it from this morning.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_02: But yeah to be over there it was really inspiring and very cool.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the you know we're seeing it kind of starting to play out in some of the products that we're developing for Midheaven we're we're doing this crazy cool collaboration right now with Cynthia Raleigh and one of the products is this blend, this Silk Taffeta blend she just wore it actually to the CFDA awards um just you know incorporating other non-denim materials with denim and I see all those blends being really exciting.
• 48:14
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah I think there's a lot to be taken from you know international uh cultures and different places and incorporating all of that here.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_02: Whether or not your audience is ready for it is a different story.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_02: But I think those bold moves are really important in fashion to like move things along and keep people interested and engaged.
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah absolutely no that's very interesting because yeah I was curious I'm like you know there is so much I feel like tall quote unquote tall fashion internationally and that's why I asked you because yeah I I've definitely noticed it myself and yeah I I know what you mean about the rhinestones.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean we were doing that back you know when I was growing up too everyone was drawing on their jeans with sketchy markers and stuff I feel like totally yeah that's very cool.
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: No I mean I want to I want to round out the interview though Catherine I want to get your advice I know that you offered some really uh great gems earlier you know but so just some words of wisdom for all the budding you know entrepreneurs or fashion aficionados out there anyone that's looking to get into starting something of their own you know any advice you could offer um I think that's always very important you know to put out there uh just to help navigate this landscape I think one of the best things I did in the beginning was I wrote a business plan.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: I think that that's very important to do when you're starting anything fashion or not you have to know your customer so do a lot of research on your chosen customer um and then just get ready get ready for an insane ride because I feel like every single one of the reasons why I love doing this is because every single day is different.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I have an autonomy with running a brand while also staying relevant in this ecosystem I also feel an autonomy with the brand that I've never felt in any other place in my life professionally.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_02: And start making my own stuff did I feel a freedom in it.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: And oftentimes people follow people want to follow you and people want to be excited about what you're doing and be inspired by what you're doing.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_02: So um yeah business plan is very important and then also um reaching out to other people for advice being careful to understand what advice to leave and what advice to keep but I think making those connections in your field is really important because not only can people introduce you to contacts that they have, but oftentimes when people have when they've achieved a certain level of success, they want to give it back and they want to keep other people moving and they want to give their expertise and their you know advice over because they're excited about people coming up.
• 51:11
  SPEAKER_02: That's I I I really thought that fashion was the most cutthroat place and I've met the most lovely people that are excited about what I'm doing and they want to be involved you know they want to collaborate they want to do trunk shows together they want to keep talking they want to um cross pollinate our brands and they want to post about Midheaven on their social media channels.
• 51:31
  SPEAKER_02: I'm like this is so cool.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: It's why I feel comfortable talking about our competitors on this podcast because it's um it's all it it all is um a very actual like very inspiring and creative community that you're tapping into whatever your field is so I'd say don't be nervous to reach out but definitely know your stuff when you do know what you want know where you're going um because people will take you seriously if you do.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_01: I love that and truly words of wisdom thank you so much for offering them because I I know there's a lot of you out there that are always on the fence you know what what you want to do.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I hope that I hope that advice really helps you and it was really wonderful to hear that.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you Catherine and thank you so much for coming on the show.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: It's been such a pleasure talking to you to learn from you about your wonderful brand and um I'm a huge fan of what you're doing.
• 52:21
  SPEAKER_01: So please carry on and and bring us amazing fashion for years to come because we definitely need it all the tall girls you know we definitely need it.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah well thank you so much for having me today this has been lovely I love talking to you too let's definitely stay in touch I would love it.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah I would love to let's have do a part two uh anytime your schedule allows but for everyone listening um if you have any you know comments questions if you're also um somebody who's tall and you've had you know issues finding your perfect fit please chime in let us know let's keep the conversation going um but I will be back next time thank you so much hey guys so I hope you love that episode please make sure to hit subscribe if you're tuning in to us on any podcast platform we are available on so many different platforms so wherever it is that you're tuning in just go hit subscribe you will be immediately notified when we publish new episodes this way you're able to tune in to amazing insights from experts brand founders industry leaders authors all the wonderful people that we host and that's very important for me because I love to hear from you guys and really understand what you love and what you want to hear more of.
• 53:29
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• 53:37
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• 53:43
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• 53:53
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• 53:59
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• 54:04
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.