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5 Bookish Hills I'll Die On—Controversial Takes · Reality Writes

• 0:05
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, hello, hello, and welcome to another episode of Reality Rights.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_00: I am author Ellie Alexander, and I'm here with The Tet Guy.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_00: The Tech Guy.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_00: And this is the podcast where we talk all things bookish, writer-ish, reader-ish.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_00: And um, today we're gonna get controversial.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_00: I get like, yeah.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_03: Controversial?
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_03: What are we talking about today?
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes she doesn't even tell me.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_03: So it's a surprise for me.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's a need-to-know basic.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: Oh wow.
• 0:31
  SPEAKER_03: No need to know.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_00: You don't.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_03: There's only two of us in the podcast.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh today we are gonna go over five bookish hills that I will die on.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_02: Sounds violent.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: I'm feeling murderous.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: I've been working on a new murder plot.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh yeah.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: Uh should we get right to it?
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: Is there anything you need to get off your chest?
• 0:55
  unknown: No.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_03: We could we can get right to it.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm actually curious to know what these things are because you take reading and writing pretty seriously.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_03: So we'll we'll see how controversial this gets.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Some it'd say too seriously sometimes.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think I think that the darlings are going to have potential um feedback for these.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll be curious what your thoughts are on most of these hills are as well.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think we're gonna be similar in a couple of them, and I think maybe there might be a few that you're like, what the hell?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: That doesn't matter.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so the first bookish hill that I will die on is that I if I open a book and it has pages, and literally this just happened to me two days ago.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: I got sent a book and I opened it up, and the first two pages were lists of characters, character names, description, ages.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_00: Not reading the book.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_03: Whoa.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: Not doing it.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_03: How many characters were there?
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_03: Wait, there this is like an intro to the book with like a like a glossary of characters.
• 1:59
  SPEAKER_01: A glossary of characters at the book.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_00: Followed closely by this is sort of a bonus.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, if there's a family tree, I don't I don't want to have to work that hard.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_03: That's a lot to have to remember.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's so much to have to remember.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_00: And the thing is, now, of course, there are always exceptions to every rule.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: And I can think of a few examples of books that I have read that have had lengthy lists of characters at the beginning that I have gone on to enjoy.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: But the writer and the coach in me, when I see that, I cringe because I think, mmm, I'm not sure if this writer has done their work.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because if you have done too much work, or yeah, I mean, it might be, yes, there's sometimes there's a finite amount of characters that we as the reader want to track.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_00: So there's that.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then it also makes me wonder like, have they done enough to describe said characters in the book so they just appear naturally and we get to know them, versus me being you know 20% in and having to flip back to the index to go like, oh, so-and-so is related to so-and-so, and who's that?
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_03: How common is it for a book to have a list of characters at the beginning?
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: I haven't I don't think I've ever encountered that in anything I've read.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it doesn't happen so much, you think, in sci-fi?
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: Or no.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_03: And I mean, some of these sci-fi books are, you know, like five, six hundred pages in their days, so they have dozens of characters, but there's there's rarely like a a glossary of people who are in it.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: It's just they the characters just happen and they're either core to the story and are repeating throughout, or they come and go occasionally for a scene or whatever, but they have they have an importance to the story, but it's not somebody you need to remember the life story of in order to enjoy the the rest of the plot.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I will say, um, you know, in some of my historical fiction that I read, that's where it tends to happen more every once in a while.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: And like maybe a a historical romance.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's especially when you get involved in the family tree.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_00: I like the look of a family tree.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to actually have to use it at all.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I and I will not name names or titles, but this was in a cozy mystery.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: So immediately, I'm like, if there are two pages devoted to all the characters I have to track, I'm sorry.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's a hard pass.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_03: Well, you know a thing or two about cozy mysteries.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_03: So for the prospective writers out there, yeah, what what would a good number of characters be?
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I don't think there's a finite amount specifically.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: Like it is, it is sort of um your own personal lens.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, let's say that you have your key sleuth and then you're gonna build um their world around them.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_00: So maybe that's five or six people who are recurring the areas.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Four characters.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: The core characters, you know.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_00: So like for Bake Shop, we've got Lance and Andy and Sterling and Steph.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_00: And as a series grows, oftentimes that cast grows too.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_03: 22 books in, you're you're you're probably gonna have more than five core characters.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: But this was also a first book in a series, too.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: So that's another red flag.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it could be a great book.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe I will read it, but I don't think I will.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and then you know, five or six suspects.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you don't want to be bogged down, and that was the other giant red flag with this.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: There were 12 suspects.
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_01: 12?
• 5:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's just too many.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's too many.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can't track that.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: Not all 12 suspects cannot all have great motives.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it's it's too overwhelming, I think, for the reader to try to follow that.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, the plotter in me is like cringy because I don't think the plot can be that tight if there are 12 different suspects.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're having to track in a 250-word or 250, not worse, 250-page book, too.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like a law for 250 words.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_00: Now she'll laugh for 250 words.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: That'd be quite yeah.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I have a that actually these two uh shit is why I'm dying on this hill, darling.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: Like, how terrible of a person does the victim have to be to have 12 people that are suspected of murdering them?
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yes.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's like uh that is that's a lot that you you have to be one big time a-hole that's right to want to have 12 people that want to kill you over and because it's a cozy mystery, it's probably over something like you know, they stole a recipe or cherished recipe.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_00: Nope, yes, like wow, yeah, 12, 12 suspects, plus I don't know, it was like 24 cast members, also.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_02: That is wild, and that's a lot of too many.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I don't know, darlings.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Come at me.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_00: Tell me if I'm wrong in the comments.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if a lot of people coming at you on this one.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_03: I think you need a lot of agreement with this particular one because I can't imagine there are many people out there that are like, oh no, the more characters, the better.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is just my pet peeve.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: And I do think it does go back to like our job as writers is to make sure we are building out characters who feel real and authentic, and that you're not having to constantly loop back to an index to go, okay, now who was that?
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_00: And do I need to know how they're connected to this other person?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: No, that should just all be embedded in the plot.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_03: So five or six core characters to start, to start, five or six suspects.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_03: This but this the suspects aren't some of them could be throwaway characters, but they're but some of them are like they become recurring for the channel.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_03: They could be, yeah, yeah.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_00: Or they could not.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_00: Either way.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: Interesting.
• 7:42
  SPEAKER_03: All right, but not twelve.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: Uh twelve.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_03: Not twelve.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, cool.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_03: So what's next?
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: That's number one.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_03: What what the like too many characters is number one.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_00: What's uh not not just too many characters, but a list and or a family tree.
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_00: Number one book of show, I'm dying on that.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: But well, what about a book that has too many characters without a list?
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: That's that's gotta be even worse.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, that leads to number two.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I will I will not finish it.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_00: DNF.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: Oh.
• 8:09
  SPEAKER_00: DNF.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you and I disagree on this one.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Book of show, I will die on.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm partway through a book, if I'm three quarters of the way through the book, even if I'm two chapters and I'm done with it, I do not finish it.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_03: I'm laughing because this is I know this is one we disagree on, and I I always, no matter how bad a book is, I always finish it.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_03: Um part of it is like a guilty little pleasure of I like complaining about it while I'm reading it to you.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_03: Just don't finish it.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, I've gotta finish it.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: And uh so yeah.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_03: Um that doesn't happen very often.
• 8:48
  SPEAKER_03: I've only had a few that are like that, but um uh I'm still trying to get through the third body problem.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know, just be done.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: This is like unreal.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_03: And you keep trying fourth try, but uh but I know because I know I would love it if I just finish it.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: Or maybe it won't.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_03: I think I will.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_03: Or maybe the other two books, there are two more books in the trilogy, too.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that's uh because dad is a trilogy, so the thing is I don't have time to read all of the books that I want to read on my TBR stack.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_03: So Well, admittedly, your TBR stack is bigger than mine.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, yeah, but life is too short.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not vibing on a book, let it go, darlings.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: Just set it aside and let it go, and then come back to it later if you decide, or maybe not.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, well, so that that is probably controversial then.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: There are people I've your camp is probably bigger than my camp.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_03: Uh people who like so I want to know, like from the darlings out there, do you finish a book all the time when you start it, or do you just chuck it?
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_01: Chuck it.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: Pass it on.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_03: Don't pass it on.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's it.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Well, somebody else might put it.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: That's true.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_03: Fairly that was a snap.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, subjective.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_03: But you I guess when you do pass it on, though, do you get do you tell the person you're passing on to I couldn't finish the curse of gift?
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_03: Like that's not I uh but then if you don't see this is controversial.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, because then if you don't and you give them a book that they don't that they don't like, and you knew that you hated it going into it, yeah, that's rough.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_00: But then do you taint someone with your impression of a book?
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_03: That happened recently.
• 10:36
  SPEAKER_03: I did read a book, yeah.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_03: We were at a book talk, you were doing a book talk, and one of the other authors there raved about this book.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_03: Um again, not gonna name names, uh, but but it sounded great.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_03: It sounded like suspenseful and a little horror.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like it was, yeah, I was like, okay, I gotta read that.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I ordered it, got it, read it, hated it.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_03: The inning was just oh, it was so ridiculous.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: I was so mad.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_03: I wanted those hours back in my life.
• 11:09
  SPEAKER_03: And I told you all of this.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and you read it anyway.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: I read it anyway.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_03: Then you agreed with me.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: I did agree with you when you finished.
• 11:16
  SPEAKER_03: It's true.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for me, my my rule is that if I love a book, I'm gonna share about it all the time, right?
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_00: If I don't love a book, if I don't finish a book, I'm gonna let it go.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: But sometimes I will have a book that I have started and I have just it hasn't hooked me, but it's good writing and the plot is there.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll think of somebody who I know, like, oh, this friend would actually, I think, really resonate with the book.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so then I will pass it on and I will be honest and just say, hey, this one didn't hook me, but I think because of blah, blah, blah, you're gonna like it.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um that makes sense.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, if even if it's my books, you don't have to finish them.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: If you're not feeling it, let it go.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: Pass it on.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_03: Pass it on.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_03: So that is and then, but we're not we're not making an official reality rights recommendation as to whether or not uh the darlings tell the person they're passing it on to if they liked it or not.
• 12:12
  SPEAKER_00: I need you all to weigh in on that.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm curious.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm very curious.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_03: I would say, I don't know.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_03: I'm torn.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_03: I guess it depends on the person.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_00: This is a secret we take with us to the grave.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, maybe yes.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think for me, if it's like if it's a book club, uh maybe it's knowing the audience, right?
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: So if it's a good friend who I know really well, then I would probably be truthful.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, I might just put it in a little free library and let somebody else happen.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's easier to pass it on when you don't see the person or know them now.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_00: But they might like it.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, books are so subjective, so there's that.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_00: Just like beer.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: Unless they have two pages of character indexes at the beginning and then it's going straight to a little free library.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:02
  SPEAKER_02: We have a little visitor.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the tech guy is obsessed with our lizards.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: They now eat out of his hands.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: They're basically our pets.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: It's problematic.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_02: This is a little guy that lost the tip of his tail.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: Probably to uh a competitor or uh a predator.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, should we move on to number three?
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: Number three.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is the third bookish shell that I will die on, and that is awards and blurbs don't matter.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: Oh at the end of the day, they don't matter.
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I do have a story behind this.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: I have blurbed many books, and I love providing blurbs.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: I only again provide a blurb for a book that I authentically enjoy.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: Well, and you read every book.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_00: I read every book.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_03: That's a rule.
• 13:57
  SPEAKER_00: That and I finish.
• 13:58
  SPEAKER_00: Those are not if I if I'm agreeing to blurb a book, I read it from start to finish, and then I craft my blurb and pass it on.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, because I do think that's important.
• 14:09
  SPEAKER_00: If I'm if I'm saying to you, darlings, like, I think you should read this book, then I want it to be a book that I have read and enjoyed.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: And also I'm always worried that, like, what if I what if I get halfway through a book that I'm blurbing and it's been great, and then the second half goes off the rails, or something really horrible, or if like, you know, they kill a pet at the end, or like something that it does not just drop a racist slur.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_03: Rashis.
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_00: So part of it is just like discernment for me, making sure, like, okay.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: You're protecting the brand.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm protecting the Ellie Alexander brands for your darlings and my own sanity.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so there is that.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, I mean, I'm not taking anything away from blurbs.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: I am always extremely grateful when other authors provide a blurb for me.
• 14:55
  SPEAKER_00: The same goes for awards, but I just was working with a client who had put their book up for um an award, and they went through this whole process.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is in another country.
• 15:10
  SPEAKER_00: And um it it it was tons of work to submit for it, to do all of the things, and they didn't get chosen, they didn't get a nomination, their book wasn't picked, and it was just this whole gut-wrenching process for them.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and at the end of the day, an award or probably a blurb is not gonna be the difference for me.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, darlings, maybe you feel differently, but I'm not picking a book because of that.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm picking a book because of the cover, I'm reading the back cover, I'm getting a friend's recommendation, like it's okay to let that go.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: Especially, this is especially for any writers out there, because I think sometimes there's like so much angst that goes into like, I have to get like Stephen King to blurb my book in order for any reader to pick it up, or I have to win every award.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: You don't, you really don't.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: Although Stephen King blurbing your book would be pretty sweet.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it would be amazing.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying that.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: And maybe that does matter then.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe you do sell a few more copies, but yeah, if you could get like a top 10 author to blurb your book, maybe it does sell a few copies.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_03: But like for the most part, like when I pick up uh books in the genres that I read, yeah, a lot of the times they're blurbed by authors I haven't even heard of.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 16:28
  SPEAKER_03: So then it's like, well, Joe Smith says that this is, you know, whatever.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm like, well, that doesn't hurt anything to me.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_03: And and I do always wonder, like, did Joe read this book, or did like Joe's agent just say, Hey, this sounds like a great blurb.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: What do you think, Joe?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: And Joe's like, yeah, great.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_03: And then it's like, yeah, you haven't read anything by Joe Smith, check him out.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: She reads it fantastic, yeah.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's probably great for Joe Smith because you might then go up, go look up Joe Smith's books and be like, hey, wow, this is something that I'm interested in too.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_03: So should be, yeah, yeah, definitely.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I guess that that is like they are useful, but just not that's not the big selling point for you.
• 17:10
  SPEAKER_03: So that's why it's controversial here, right?
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that's why it's a book of show that I'm gonna die on, especially for my writers who I like to cheerlead on.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: Like at the end of a day, it doesn't matter.
• 17:19
  SPEAKER_03: Well, yeah, and the awards, like I don't like awards to me are hilarious because it's like the Oscars and the Emmys and everything, like uh uh things like the bear, for example, is in the comedy category for show.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Thank god, and sure it has some funny parts to it, but it is not a comedy and also one of the darkest, statest seeings episodes of all of TV.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: If you know, you know, you've seen the Christmas episode.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's the it's deeply dark and and very and it's an amazing TV show, but for to be competing against comedies, yeah.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_00: You've got like Abbott Elementary over here.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_03: That's not fair, like it doesn't so then them it wins an award for best comedy.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_03: So you you see that and you go, Well, I'm gonna check out the bear.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you're not gonna be laughing a whole lot, right?
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_03: So that that is like it the that award doesn't carry much weight in my book.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_03: Not that any of the actors in The Bear don't deserve that because that again it's a phenomenal show, but the same as like even more so of um of uh book awards because uh I would I would I want to hear from the darlings like how uh how many of you know like the major book awards?
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_03: And and if you do, you know the names, but do you know like what's the application process?
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_03: How many other books were recommended?
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_03: How do books get recommended?
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know, who are the judges?
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, like you know, that all of this stuff.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't, you know, it it doesn't mean anything.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: It's like you you see the gold seals on the book sometimes, and it's like winner of well for sci-fi, it's like the nebula awards, and I'm like, uh, okay, but what is that uh I just I think of um of uh uh what's the the McLeaney uh show.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's all the study in Philadelphia.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: Oh no, no, no.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's uh the the gaming oh shoot, yeah.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: Mythic quests.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: I think of the writer in Mythic Quest where he's he's holding on, you know, he's like 80 and he's holding on to this one award that he won like way back when.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_03: It's just like what is that?
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, that was a huge hawk.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_03: It just flew by.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_03: See, this is why we podcast outside.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_03: We eat all sorts of cool things.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um anyway, I just I don't know that I I'd be really curious to know of uh the listeners of Darlings out there, like what do you know about these awards?
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_03: Do they know does it impact your decision to buy a book or not?
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's my book of shield that I'm dying on.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that at the end of the day, that is going to be the thing that makes a reader find your book if you're a new writer.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_00: So you can just release that and let it go and be done with it.
• 20:12
  unknown: Cool.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Whew, okay.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_00: Two more to go.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: Two, we still have two to go.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_00: One more to go, I told you.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 20:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's controversial.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_00: Number four.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Get ready.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh boy.
• 20:25
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna stare into the camera for a minute.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_00: Jeez.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_00: Wait for the darling.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_00: They know this one is gonna get some uh serious pushback, but dog ear pages, like they're going out of style.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: One, two, three spots.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I'll highlight sections, I'll write in the margins.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: I felt like half other listeners should just end right there.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_03: Like, just they're good, like they're gone.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: You own the book, it's your book.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I love picking up a book that somebody else has dog eared pages of, or like done a little note in the margin, or like circled a passage where I'm like, uh, that passage also resonated with me.
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_00: Or I I then I had to try to sleuth it out and figure out like, hmm, was the dog ear just a placeholder, or was there something they really loved?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then if I find a similar passage, I think like whoever did this, we would be book friends.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, yeah, this is probably it's funny that this is number four on the list because this is probably the most controversial thing.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, me.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna make it even worse though, and say, like, you can't dog ear my books because I read ebooks.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I read paperbooks too, but you can't dog ear my Kindle.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you almost you used to read a lot more paper.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: You don't just exclusively read your ebook now.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, it's because I travel a lot for my job, and I that's how I got into it.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: I don't travel as much anymore, but that's how I got into it was just I would travel for like a week or more at a time, and if I wanted to take two books, that's a lot of space.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_03: So can pack it on my kennel, and then your mood changes.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: Right?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_03: And the other thing is we just we just what do we just have to buy?
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_03: We just had to buy another bookcase.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: Another freaking bookcase to hold the number of books that we have in this house.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_03: And every time we move, what is the number one thing that has the highest number of boxes?
• 22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Right, but I like my paper books.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_00: I like physical dog-eared pages.
• 22:26
  SPEAKER_03: Reminds me, I need to check and see how much we have all that stuff insured for.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we have more books than houses, right?
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: What is shown stuff?
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_00: We should build them.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_00: We should build a house out of books.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_00: Some of them are friends' books, some of them are like signed books.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_00: I have some of my mom's old books that she had like dog-eared and noted, like that's the best.
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-uh.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, but the other thing about the other thing about ebooks that I love, and this is like this is gonna make number four even that much more controversial, is I can loan an e-book to somebody, and whether or not they want to give it back, it's automatic.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: They have to return it.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: Because I will tell you right now, and if any of you out there have these, I want to hear from you.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_03: I'm missing two of my murder bot series, two of them.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: Uh-oh.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: I loaned them to somebody, and now I I don't have them.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_03: They're missing.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_03: You're talking physical books.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: Physical books, paper books, because I did buy those.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_03: So Martha Wells, if you're listening, yes, she is.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_03: I'm missing, I miss his books two and four from the series.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_03: So if you could send signed copies my way, that'd be awful.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect, right?
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: No big deal.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: She will for sure.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: Totally.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_03: But you know what's not happened to any of those paper books?
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_03: None of the pages have been done.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't care.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: If somebody returns a book dog eared, I'm fine with it.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm okay.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm okay with that too.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: See, this is one of the reasons I don't read paper books because if I see a banned page, then I gotta get another book.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:59
  SPEAKER_03: Gotta get a new copy.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_03: Cracked.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: Oh god.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_03: Oh I mean, why even at that point you just like use that to start a fire in the fall or winter because that's gonna look terrible on your shelf.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's just that is that is just terrible.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_03: And then you can't get it to like stay.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_03: Then you once it's cracked in one place, you have to crack it on every couple pages because you can't get the book to stay open.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, because it's all loose on like the third of the way through.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_03: Then I get to crack it halfway, and then uh yeah.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_03: Crack that spine.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_03: And then you might as well just be turning the pages out one at a time.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_00: Just fire starter.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 24:41
  unknown: Yeah.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 24:43
  SPEAKER_00: I feel like darlings, come at me.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: I know you're gonna have a lot of thoughts and comments, but I'm still I'm still dying on this hill.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: They're my books, I can do with them as I please.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I will dog ear them, I will write in the margins, I'll make little notes, I'll spow my coffee on them, I'll take them to the dash tub.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: That's a given.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: She does that with books that aren't even hers.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like asked her how many the the uh Jackson County Library uh was the beneficiary of multiple fees that we had to pay.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_03: I bought this box after after they took a bath with you.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: After I had had to do the library walk of shame.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_03: What is it?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_03: When does a 300-page book look like a 600-page book when it's been submerged in water?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: There was like, I don't remember what number, but one of Reese Bowen's her royal spinus had come out in hardcover, and I was like, yes, I was first in line at the library.
• 25:40
  SPEAKER_00: I read it in the bath.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: No one else got to it.
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody else got it, just me.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_00: I you both on my shop now.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, okay, well, that takes me to number five.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, this is the fifth bookish hill that I will die on.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and this is like a perfect segue.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's like we planned this, but we didn't.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: That is for the love of all things good.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you can get books at your local library.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and yes.
• 26:11
  SPEAKER_00: Please do.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: Please support your local libraries.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: We need public libraries now more than ever.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: They are institutions in terms of our culture and our world.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: And not a week goes by where I don't get an email from a reader apologizing.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_00: Darlings, don't apologize ever for using the library.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Someone will email me and say, Ellie, I'm so sorry, but I found your book at the library.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's okay.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like, libraries help authors in so many ways, shapes, and forms.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_00: They also buy a lot of books.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_03: So, I say, like, maybe, maybe some people don't know this, but libraries actually pay for the books that are in the library.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_03: So, yeah, and authors make money off of those books being bought, just like they do if you or I were to go to a bookstore and buy the book.
• 26:58
  SPEAKER_03: Um, the royalty rates are different and the purchase price is different, but it it all it all works out in the end, and libraries are such great resources, and it always never ceases to amaze me how many people are like, Oh, yeah, but you know, that's such a hassle.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: You get a library card and blah blah.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_03: You know, what what?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_03: Like it's gonna take you less than five minutes, and then it's free.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like you just you can go get books, you can go get heck a lot of libraries now are even have uh like appliances and tools and things.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: A library of things in Jackson County, yeah.
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: You can rent like a telescope, yes, you know, a cricket machine.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um there are so many programs that happen at libraries, like yes, here in California, you can get a library card from any district in and counting in the state, um, which is so cool.
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: And then we get like national park passes, state park passes through the library, like it's a treasure trove.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: If you are not connected with your local library, you should be.
• 28:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, I mean it's the there's nobody should ever be like sorry for checking out a book, buying it at a bookstore.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: That's definitely not, yeah.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_03: Um I I I know a lot of people do end up breaking down and buying the book themselves anyway, because if any of you out there have experienced what I do, anytime I want to go read like the next murder bot or whatever, I'll just peek at the library to see and look at the last late 18 weeks to get to get the book.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_03: So I will end up buying it uh most times.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_03: But uh, but and the other thing is that a lot of people probably don't realize is you can check out ebooks in the library also free.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: So if you're an ebook reader, you need the Libby app.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and then you you can figure out how to tie your library card to it, and that opens up a whole new resource.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_03: You still have to wait because there are only a limited number of copies that the libraries can check out, but again, a wonderful resource, uh super easy on the budget.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_03: And you don't need to buy an extra bookcase to store all those puts.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, you might want to, but no, but go to your local library.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh my friend Mel has a Libby hack where she'll make this hack, but yeah.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_00: Where she'll turn off uh the internet basically, so she doesn't have to, if she's like a little late on returning it, so she could finish a book real quick, because otherwise it just gets snatched over the flopper thing.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_03: That that's why it eat me weeks for a book, yeah.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so don't do that, but but just to finish it that time.
• 29:49
  SPEAKER_03: You usually get two or three weeks.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_03: Even I can finish a book in two or three weeks, and I'm not a fast reader, so that's uh yeah, yeah.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if that one's very controversial, but it is, it does like no, you feel bad.
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_00: I saved that one for last, I guess.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, but I do feel bad though, because I I have I've been around enough when readers have but actually apologized to you, and it's like it's it's like the last thing using a library should be is any sort of should bring any sort of embarrassment or shame or anything or or guilt, like you're not helping out your favorite authors because you are like if you check out a book, the thing is the library is gonna buy more copies of it.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_03: The more people that check it out, the more people that put it on hold, the more holds it have, yeah.
• 30:34
  SPEAKER_03: They're not they're not gonna they're not gonna sit there because librarians they they have budgets to buy new books and they're not going to want to sit around and hear complaint after complaint after complaint because the hottest new book out only has one copy that like 400 people are trying to share.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 30:51
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: Anything that we can do to support our public libraries is uh a plus in my book.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um and libraries made me the reader and the writer I am today.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like if it hadn't been for my locary growing up, I I never would have had the amount of um pleasure and that I've gotten over the years out of books.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: Plus, to circle back to the beginning, if you don't finish a book, you can also take it to your local libraries, like friends of the library store, and they can resell it.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_03: That's true.
• 31:23
  SPEAKER_03: However, to go back to what number was it?
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: Three dog earing?
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_03: Do not do not dog ear your library book.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_00: I would never dog ear a library book or write in it.
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: That's that it would be controversial.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's diabolical.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:43
  unknown: Okay.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's crossing a line.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_02: That was the five.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's the five.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's only five.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I feel like we could easily do another five.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, wow.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Part two?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think, darlings?
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: But we need the darlings to weigh in on all of these.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: I want to hear your thoughts and uh whether you agree or disagree on these bookish sales.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, okay.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_03: Let's get controversial.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: On that note, until next time, go dog ear your books.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_03: Tell next time.