Latest / The ROAR Podcast / The ROAR Podcast: Steve Lefton

Transcript

The ROAR Podcast: Steve Lefton · The ROAR Podcast

• ROAR Podcast: In the late 1970s, a boy went to his first football game with his dad. The stadium was RFK. He remembers a walk-up from the lot by the river, the tunnels under the stands, and the traffic. Nearly 50 years later, that same site is being rebuilt, and his firm is a lead engineer on the team doing it. His thoughts on the traffic? We're hoping to change that. Today's guest is C Lefton, Executive Chair of Kimley Horn. He calls it the largest firm you'd never heard of. 11,000 people, 160 offices, engineers and planners and landscape architects doing everything on a project except the architecture. Steve studied landscape architecture and urban planning at Cornell, then started his career in Miami in the late 90s, post-Hurricane Andrew. A blighted rail yard south of downtown, a city center cut apart by highways built in the 60s. Twenty-nine years later, after a run as president and CEO, In which the firm doubled in size, he's still working on the same problem. How do you build something at an enormous scale that still belongs to the people who are already there? In this conversation, Caroline gets specific. The battery and why districts that work don't feel like projects at all. Why a hundred block development can't happen without a public partner. What a Kimley Horn employee is doing on game bay, standing beside a police officer with an earpiece in. And why he will tell you AI is not going to replace engineers, but engineers who know how to use AI will replace ones that don't. I'm Bryce Clinton, and this is the Roar Podcast. Caroline Valvardi: Welcome to the Roar Podcast. I'm your host, Caroline Valvardi, and with me today is Steve Lefton, Executive Chair at Kimley Horn. Welcome to the podcast. Steve: Thank you. It's great to be with you today, Carolyn. Caroline Valvardi: Excellent. So usually we jump in with tell us about your career and how you got to where you are today. wanted to start out with a little bit different question for you, which some of your team as we were preparing for the podcast thought this would be a fun one too, and I think helps tee up the rest of the conversation. they told me a little bit, I was actually visiting with the DC team recently, just yesterday actually, and they were giving me a little bit of background about your Interest in sports, they mentioned you have a son who plays lacrosse in college. And so wanted to just talk a little bit about if you can share what do sports mean to you. Steve: Yeah, thank you for asking. a lot is the short answer. But sports have been a defining thread for my entire life that shape I think who I am personally and professionally. If I think back, some of my best memories revolve around sports and family, right? Whether that's playing or coaching or simply being a fan. I I like to think we we're a family of athletes. th as you mentioned, Today that legacy continues with my oldest son playing collegiate lacrosse. so watching that journey unfold has reinforced to me some of the lessons that sports taught me so many years ago. You sports teach you discipline, right? Through repetition, the power of habits. you have to be resilient in the face of setbacks. you know, how do you deal with and process things like criticism? And the joy that comes from working towards a shared goal. to me, those lessons prepare you for life just as more as much as they prepare you for the game. you know, I think about it in my career and I link these together. there are so many leadership lessons that I rely on today that I trace back to sports, right? Great teams succeed when people are trusted with ownership and they're given opportunity to contribute in meaningful ways. You know, at the risk of being trite, I I firmly believe that talent is everywhere and opportunities not. And so that belief has driven me to create opportunities for people to set up, to grow, and ultimately to live out their potential. And I think so much of that comes from sports. And I I think I would also add that to me, great leadership mirrors great sports teams. It empowers individuals, it builds authentic connections, fosters collaboration. And unites people in a common goal. Look, whether it's business or sports or life, all these things are it comes down to being a team sport. I I don't think you can separate Caroline Valvardi: obviously we'll get into more, but you have your commander's gear on, so we'll we'll dive in more. So this is meant to kind of tee up and we'll definitely want to talk about Kimberly Horn's journey too in kind of the sports space. 'cause to my knowledge, your whole focus is not necessarily sports, but just kind of some of that journey. But before we get to that, can you talk a bit about your, long journey with Kim Lee Horn, but if you can kind of go through your background and, how you got to where you are today. Steve: Yeah, sure. And we'll we'll try to keep that short to to keep everybody awake. You don't want to hear about my thirty Caroline Valvardi: No, it's okay. No, you have very interesting background, so please. Steve: my thirty plus year journey, twenty nine of which have been with Kimley Horn, but before that, I I went to Cornell and studied landscape architecture and urban planning. So I've aut always thought about those I call them the spaces in between, right? The the spaces that we inhabit as people. started my career as a landscape architect and, you know, that passion for creating and strengthening communities has always been with me. I I was always keenly interested in those communities that maybe were overlooked or underserved. so my early days with Kinley Horn were in Miami. They were in the late 90s. It was post-Hurricane Andrew. gosh, Blight was still incredibly pervasive, sadly so in communities like Homestead. You know, the downtown Miami had been divided for years because of poorly planned transportation solu solutions that dated way back to the 60s. so that's the canvas that I sort of enter Kinley Horn and in in my thinking about, you know, planning. and so I I came to this ethos that, you know, meaningful solutions have to come from bringing diverse perspectives, diverse disciplines, stakeholders all together to tackle these complex challenges to create a lasting impact. And so that led me to a career of redevelopment projects. And those are the things I love. But along the way, I've also had some increased opportunity within the firm to lead offices and regions of our firm. And ultimately the entire firm is our president and CEO. and so at at that that time I was wa I was experiencing this kind of expanded roles and responsibilities of designing projects and then moving to projects in communities, I would say, but then also moving to developing people and teams. And so that kind of took me on this, I'll call the second part of my journey where I I've spent the majority of my time focusing on how do we live out our core values and core purpose at Kinley Horn. And I think it's really relevant because our core purpose is to provide an environment for our people to f flourish. And and I firmly and deeply believe that if you take care of your people, they will take care of your clients. And that creates aligned incentives for everyone. And i that concept is something that is really important in our business and important in sports projects. So maybe we'll Have a chance to talk about that as well. You know, at when I served as president CEO, I was fortunate enough to lead Kimley Horn through a period of what was really transformational growth. We doubled the firm size in just seven years. but what I'm most proud of is that we did that while remaining true to our core values and our core purpose. And I think we're in this this next wave of growth, and we continue to do that. So I kind of look at my career as an evolution from shaping places and communities to more shaping organizations and future leaders. but my goal's always been the same, right? To leave our profession and our communities stronger, right? Stronger through collaboration, through education and stewardship. Caroline Valvardi: thank you for sharing all of that. And that definitely resonates my background in community development and your point earlier too about there's no shortage of talent and it's about creating opportunity and helping create that for others in the communities that you're working in and making those better places for everyone to live. So love all of that and the whole philosophy and you know when your your workforce and your employees are treated well, they're going to, like you said, makes your business better. Steve: Yeah, thank you. Caroline Valvardi: so looking back though in your career, is there a project or a decision that you would say that kind of set the direction for everything that came after that? there's anything there that you think of that was maybe a pivotal moment or would love to hear about that. Steve: Yeah, happy to share. You had the good fortune to work on so many interesting projects, both as an individual and of course as a firm, we were blessed with serving thousands of of projects and clients a year. If I go back in time, to me and for me personally, that kind of w projects that were really transfer transformational for me and in the communities, I would hit two real quick. One was master plan we did for the Miami River Corridor. that was three thousand thirteen thousand acres along the Miami River corridor in downtown Miami. And I I take a look back at that, and there's parts of that are still being implemented. It it it didn't lack controversy. It had an enormous amount of stakeholders involved, private sector, public sector, different competing views from the public sector as well as the private sector. you had the whole working river, you had Desires for redevelopment along that working river, mobility and greenways. And so it was really a microcosm of what all cities are, which is how do you balance these interests? And that became a really important platform for some of the complex sports mixed use projects that we do today. And so it's just exciting to look back and still see pieces of that being implemented, you know, decades later. And then the other one was a project we called Midtown Miami. It was the development or redevelopment of a 56-acre blighted rail yard south of downtown Miami. And we had the good fortune to work on that for many, many years and redeveloped that into a thriving mixed-use hub in Miami. And it was fun because it drew energy from the design district, another project that we had an opportunity to To work on some years before, which was the brainchild of Craig Robbins, just a brilliant developer, kind of a patron saint in in Miami. he did a wonderful job there. So we were able to build upon that, and then that became the catalyst for develop the development of Winwood. And to me, that's the magic when you look back on these big develop redevelopment projects, is how one begets the other, and they can change the face of entire communities. And so I look back on those projects very fondly. and and you know. Honestly, with a little bit of pride. Caroline Valvardi: As you should. thank you. no, sounds amazing work that you do. And so I guess we can backtrack slightly. because I don't know that all the audience is familiar with exactly what Kim Lee Horn does. And so if you could talk a bit about what Kimley Horn does, but also has Kim Lee Horn always had a sports focus and now with the evolution of mixed use sports districts. has that strategy changed at all. So give the bigger picture what Kimley Horn does and the focus on sports. Steve: Sure. Yeah, we're I sometimes joke. We're the we're the largest firm you've never heard of. we are we're consultants and we consult on the built environment. We're predominantly engineers, planners, landscape architects, scientists. and think of us as the the consultant that is doing everything except the architecture, right? So we partner with amazing architects all around the the country, even the world. And we continue to scale that practice, whether it's in the sports arena, developing roadways, transit systems, parks. I could go on and on, both for private clients, public, institutional clients. and we've had an amazing opportunity to work all across the country and the world. We now have a workforce of 11,000 people and 160 offices, which makes us one of the largest and most capable. firms and a private firm i for that for that matter in the country and so we're really proud of that. That, all of those things together sort of bring us to a a really important part of our business, which is the sports practice. And the truth is we've been involved in sports for decades. It's really our sports practice is really rooted in designing facilities for the communities that we live and work in. So so You know, zoom out. Think about the local fields or sports complexes that your kids may play baseball, soccer, lacrosse on. I mean, there's hundreds, maybe thousands of those fields that have design been designed by Kimley Horn all across the country. So then along the way, we had the opportunity to expand into collegiate and professional sports facility design. and as you know, professional sports facilities have really evolved from these standalone, almost single-use venues. To these community-building destinations that really provide these wonderful epicenters for residents and fans alike. So you kind take that sports practice and take a little bit of what I was talking about, where my roots are in redevelopment and bring those together with what's happening in this really exciting moment in sports mixed use. And that's been kind of the perfect, wonderful storm for what we do. Caroline Valvardi: Yeah, it's interesting because I believe Kimley Horn was also involved in the battery, which is still one of the prototypes for the mixed use. And as we get to this next generation of mixed use, kind of interesting to see the continued evolution. And we'll get more into the commanders, which I believe you guys are working on as well. So but before we jump to that, wanted to you've touched on this a bit, just some of the public-private partnership piece of it. does Kimley Horn get involved in those conversations and the negotiations? And what do you guys find as the challenges or best practices? as I mentioned, I was talking to some of your team and they were talking about some of the you know permitting processes and trying to figure out how to streamline those because these projects you're working with you know all kinds of stakeholders who work on different timelines, have very different stakeholders that they're responding to. and so you know, how to align all of that is a huge endeavor for particularly these mixed use projects. But but yeah, if you could just talk a little bit about your perspectives on the public private partnership piece and how Kim Lee Horn gets involved in those and again any challenges or best practices that that you have found. Steve: Yeah, it it's a it's a great question. And the short answer is yeah, we're we are involved in a lot of projects that are a mix of private and public funding. the reality is th these successful sports districts, they depend on aligning public priorities with private investment. And w so where's our role? It's really helping turn that alignment into execution. You use the word negotiation. there's obviously lots of negotiations that go on with these. I think Our view is we try to be the honest broker for everybody involved, right? You want your in you want your engineer to be using data, right? And so we try to provide data and information for for all parties so they can make really informed decisions. i these projects are incredibly capital intensive. and so as we're looking at the scope and scale of them today, it's rare that any one organization can take on take on these projects alone. so we look at it as sports as a unifying aspect of the community. And and when you think of it that way, as opposed to a negotiation, these districts can really accelerate that culture. And I think they just strengthen that ecosystem, right? let me give you a sense of the scale, right? I think s not everybody realizes that. If if you put it in perspective, think about a single block in New York City, that's kind of roughly three acres. Many of these projects that we're talking about. They're not a block. They can span anywhere between 16 and 100 city blocks. So when you think about that, in doing a development of that scale, you have to have public partnership. In a lot of cases, you have to have public land. Where do you have a hundred blocks in a city that are just sitting available for purchase? So that that requires that that partnership. Because you really are. You're talking about creating these entirely new districts. And in these new districts, you have new infrastructure, you have new public spaces, you have new transportation. and then you're what what are the outcomes? You're not talking about just creating great places, but the long-term economic impact for these communities can and should be both positive and extraordinary. so yeah, we're involved, the nature of them almost requires it these days. So we kind of think of ourselves as a bridge, right? We we try to bridge that gap between intention and impact. we're looking to help turn these ambitious visions into measurable outcomes, right? We try to use data-driven planning, actionable strategies, and execution that ultimately can can get us you know, get us to to results. And and if I if I may, I'd I'd add one more thing. It's not just, you know, once you get to these private public partnerships in terms of the creation of a project, there are others that that continue. I and a great example is one that just happened in our country. The the the recent World Cup is a great example of that bridging. so we had the opportunity to work with FIFA and the public entity host cities to have these amazing events all across the country. So working with six of the host cities, we moved 2.8 million fans. to stadiums throughout the throughout the world cup. We organized mobility operations for 10 fan walks. We supported 35 of the 78 matches through mobility planning and we're part of the hosted almost six hundred thousand attendees at the Philadelphia Fan Fest. So th these public partnerships, private public private partnerships, my point is they don't just end at the the The deal. They continue with the events, and they're really important for that fan experience that we all care so much about. Caroline Valvardi: Thank you for adding that part in about World Cup. That's incredibly impressive. And I know you were involved in the World Cup and all that, but just hearing some of those numbers is really incredible and just the work, which we'll dig into more in a second, around the traffic and and technology and and how you know you're using all these pieces. but the other point I also liked calling it negotiations and yes, there is, negotiating, but I think that is a really important point when you're going into communities and trying to do these projects. sometimes myself on the public affairs side of things and and the community development side it can feel too transactional sometimes where the relationship and trust are the core, what you that needs to be the foundation, even before you're getting into quote unquote like the negotiations and making sure that, people are excited and see the value and the benefit for the broader community. So I think that's a great point. You started to touch on this a bit, just this is the Roar podcast, so that's Surge's data analytics platform. And so we do a ton around the data and data collection and analysis and insights and the evolving technology and how we think about that in mixed use districts. And obviously Kim Lee Horn, that's a huge focus and and what you do. so would love to hear how AI and technology are impacting your business, any positive shifts. and some of the things that you're more cautious about. Steve: Yeah, it it's a it's a great and obviously timely question and and the answer next week will probably be different than the answer this week, given the the pace of of change with technology. I do have the good fortune of serving as the chair of the ACC Research Institute. and I mention that because we've been providing leading research on AI and the impact in the the business of engineering. And so For context, those conversations and being part of that research and spending time with that has absolutely influenced my approach to AI and technology. And I think that has transferred into our firm, to be sure. we believe that AI is a powerful tool for our people. When I take a step back, I firmly believe that the team of the future will be both our people and our people working with agents, right? So we're trying to. Get people to process a team of four people today, might be a team of four people and one agent not too long from now. And they will actually be a team member. and that's a really important way to think about it. It's not replacing the team, it's augmenting it. And so it's it right now it is accelerating how we gather and analyze data. you mentioned it, but particularly traffic data, things that were really mundane tasks for our people. can be automated and that allows our people to spend more times on more time on strategy, client engagement, and problem solving. There are the things that they love to do and they're the the things that our clients value. So we can move up the value chain by automating a lot of the very simple, mundane tasks and move move more into the problem solving for our clients. And that that's hugely important. So it's an amplifier. It is definitely not a replacement. We often say, hey, the the AI is not gonna replace engineers. Engineers who know how to use AI will replace engineers that don't. And that's true with CAD and a whole bunch of other technologies if you go back in time in our industry. But it's also Caroline Valvardi: Yeah. Steve: changing our client expectations. They expect more real-time infid information, they expect data-driven recommendations, And more options because the data is easier to gather and faster responses. So our approach to client service hasn't changed. I think that's a hallmark and it allows us to amplify that for our clients because we've got bet we've got better data and we're managing those data lakes so we can get to that information to serve our clients at the speed that they need to be served. Caroline Valvardi: And is there anywhere where you are more cautious or, not leaning in as heavily or anything you want to share on that side of things? Because Steve: Yeah. So there's there's a lot of cautions. There's some yellow flags out there, there's some red flags. If you think about what we do, one of the things we talk about is we have to be careful to avoid assuming that faster automatically means better. Right? We can we all know that we can generate information v unbelievably quickly using AI. But it still requires validation, it still requires context, and it still requires professional Judgment. W we are a firm of licensed professionals, right? And as licensed professionals, whether we're engineers, planners, landscape architects, we're responsible for the standard of care and for the health, safety, and welfare of the of the public. You can't outsource that to AI. No one wants us to. That would not be in the best interest of anybody. So we can get information, we still have to validate, we still have to use our professional judgment, and that's where I have a caution, right? Is Making sure that our young people who are amazing know that and we're taking the time to teach them the fundamentals so they can make those good judgments on the data that they get in just r unbelievably rapid time. Caroline Valvardi: yeah, that makes a lot of sense. what has been the biggest challenge in the work you're leading now, whether specific project or industry shift, any of the things you talked about, I also would be interested, everyone always brings up traffic flows and you hear a lot as we get into these larger scale mixed use districts and how people navigate those and as you're having more, residential built into some of these mixed use districts. obviously there's challenges of how you move on game day or event day, forty thousand people But would love to hear you touch specifically on that. but also there are other, bigger challenges that you're working on or leading. whether again that's a It's a property during the district, but Steve: Yeah, well there's a there's a few. Let let me start where where you ended because I think that's very interesting and probably something that most people don't know. We have, as I mentioned, we have the good fortune to work operations for a lot of major events, whether that is Formula One in Las Vegas, Super Bowl, national college championship. And I think what most people don't realize if if you've been around long enough, we're all used to Go into the big game and there's officers out in the street and they're directing traffic and you're still wondering why things aren't going. And it's because those officers, while well-intentioned, no one's armed them with data. And so the game has changed. What's happening now, and people don't realize, is you may have a Kimley Horn employee standing next to that officer. That Kimley Horn employee has an earpiece. They're talking to one of our people that is in the traffic operations center, looking at all the cameras and saying, go green north, right? Which means, hey, we need to we need to flush that road north. And then they'll send the information again. Let's stop, let's go east, right? And so now you've got that officer who's directing traffic actually have a making data driven decisions, and we're feeding those folks that information. So using our technology, our cameras, watching traffic flows is allowing us to get people in and out of facilities on these major events in ways that we've we've never been able to in the past. So that's just an example and that that continues to evolve in how we can manage those those events because it's really important, right? You want to have a great experience and it's hard to have a great experience at the game. If you end up being 30 minutes late because you've been stuck in traffic, you're already frustrated. So that's a really important part for our owners and for communities that that experience starts with an easy experience getting to the event and leaving the event. Caroline Valvardi: I definitely did not know. So you have Kim Leehorn folks are talking directly to officers. Steve: I and I think most importantly is w we're in the command centers with banks of screens that are showing all of the intersections that are affected. Now, cities have to have installed cameras and we're working with them so they have all that information, but that's the use of technology to move people. We can see where so we don't rely on the traditional green red systems. We can turn those on and off to flush. to flush traffic and and direct the officers who are great partners. Caroline Valvardi: I did not know that's how that worked. So thank you for explaining that. so as we continue on this journey down the focus on mixed use districts. Again, they're continuing to evolve, become larger, have more elements, as the focus becomes experiential, trying to make them really places where people can have these in-person shared experiences and continue to evolve and the master planning around them is becoming more sophisticated. Whereas, in the past there was more of the kind of fan zone or not much even around a stadium. It or it was, individual developers, a few buildings here, a few buildings there, but now it's the very master planned mixed use district. So it's interesting and rapidly happening globally and even at the college level and even down to youth sports. obviously that's our total focus at Surge, but would love to hear you talk about what you see as the most successful attributes of sports mixed use districts, which I know you've touched on a little bit, but with that, where do you see potential downfalls or, and some of this may be a summary of what we've talked about, but the best things about them and some of the cautions are things we have to be careful about as we're, building them out. Steve: Yeah, you know, it it would be nice for all of us if there was one easy answer to to all of that. But the the the the short answer is there's lots of different things. I'll try to hit on a few. to me, the best sports districts, they don't feel like projects. They feel like organic neighborhoods. And I think you mentioned the battery. That's what's so special about the battery, is it really feels or organic and people love that that about it. If you go back, right, the the sort of how they're structured, they have to be structured around shared purpose and true partnership, right? They're successful, kind of as I said, when it's not a negotiation, but when the ownership and the developers and the public leaders are aligned, right? And there's alignment around a common vision and approach that that everyone's coming together as these are problems we have to solve together. Not I'm going head to head with you, but we're locked arms stuff. figure out how to make this great. Right. When when any side, right, and there can be multiple sides, is focusing on extracting kind of the, I'll call it the maximum value for whatever is their most important thing rather than creating long-term value, that's where things, you know, we really forget what's the big picture. So but sort of it's just the mindset. Hey, are we excited to do this together? And we know there have to be competing interests and working on those together. I think the other thing is this idea of a seamless blend between art and science, right? These districts and the great ones integrate design and engineering really effectively so the individual components feel like one place. And so that does require an incredible amount of collaboration between folks like us and amazing architects and great owners and public officials that balance the experience and the function and the infrastructure and the identity. Because like I said, they shouldn't feel like playing communities. If you think about it, cities, they have patina, they have a little bit of grit. And so how do you design that into a sports mixed-use facility? That's not science, that's art. you know, it downfalls if if I if I could, I feel like the biggest downfalls, and I've kind of alluded to this, is silo delivery, right? When people aren't collaborating, when services or teams or ownership responsibilities are fragmented, and we're not all. kind of on the same sheet of music driving towards a a shared success, you see dissension. And I'd love to say we've never seen that, but we have, and that creates challenges and delays on projects. so I I think those are important things for people to remember. And then authenticity, right? Every city, every team, every site, they're all different. so you know, it's not uncommon for owners. to tour different projects. We've given countless tours of Battery and Allegion, which are great projects. and there's so much to learn from them. But I always encourage people to draw inspiration and then make it your own, right? Because what's authentic in Atlanta is different than what's authentic in Washington or Nashville or Chicago or Las Vegas or LA. and you would expect that. And when you go there, you would expect it to be authentic to the place. So lots to learn from each of these, but so much to sort of make genuine about the place in the community. Caroline Valvardi: that's a great point too, as you think about 'cause I think that, always the fear we have this big development coming in and Yes, it is going to change some of the fabric of that area, but it needs to feel like, the people who live there that that is still their city. And at the end of the day, that's what's gonna make it most successful because people are gonna go to, more of the restaurants, engage in that district if it feels more like, their place and their community. So that's very important point and being really thoughtful about that and that's the piece of data and from our side with our Aurora data is incredibly valuable because it's basing a lot of those decisions as we're planning out it's not just like guessing but it's really looking at the people in that area and the people that we want to come to that area and what are their preferences and basing that on like real behavioral data, what do they spend their money on, credit card transaction like all that kind of stuff. So that's I think a very important point. Steve: No, it's Caroline Valvardi: so we've talked about the battery as again, still the prototype that people point to a lot as one of the earlier mixed use districts. And as they do evolve, what are you most excited about in the evolution of mixed use districts, whether it's how people flow in and out, so from the Kimley Horn side or anything beyond that, as these districts continue to evolve in this next generation. Steve: Yeah, th there's so much, so much opportunity to shape places, right? And it's it's about creating value that's three hundred and sixty-five days a year for all the stakeholders. and that includes the communities, our clients and all the fans, the people that live there and work there, like you said, you can see that in some of the in some of the data. So I mean that gets me incredibly excited. I mean, you'd mentioned transportation a few times. These are all we're no longer doing transportation plans. We talk about them as mobility plans, right? How we move people and the sort of options for mobility. and and some challenges, right? You think about e-bikes and where do they go and the speed they go, and you've got transit and you've got fixed rail and you've got light rail and you've got rubber tire. of course we have cars, we have bikes, we have heads. And so what is a mobility plan? Because People have different preferences and how do we accommodate those and still keep people moving? but that should be in the background. and that shouldn't be a challenge for a district. That should enhance a district, but people really want to get there and experience the place. So that's part that's part of what we do. on the trend side, I I'll come back to that kind of local insight at a at a national scale. you know. Our people for us, our people are part of the communities they serve. They live and they work and they spend time in the districts that they get a chance to work on. And so for us, that gives us a direct understanding of how these places need to function. We're not the out-of-town experts, right? We tend to be boots on the ground, understand these communities, understand how they operate. And you've mentioned a couple times, I'll I'll hit it one more time: the the truest battery park. to me continues to be a a gold standard, right? It it's success, and I don't think people fully appreciate this, which is why I think it's worth sharing, its success is a gold standard for a reason, right? It it really came from that deep local insight and the national experience. It was our Atlanta team that understood how to capture the character, understood the community, and brought in our broader national sports partners to leverage the lessons learned from projects across the country. That that one plus one equals three every time, right? When you combine that local and national. And that's what we do. And I think owners need to think about that. Make sure that you've had a national perspective and then you have a team that really understands the local communities. Caroline Valvardi: Great points. we have a one or two questions before we go and one of those I have to make sure I talk about what's brought you the most joy in your career as it relates to sports and I would imagine you've mentioned some specific projects, but we have not talked about the Commanders and so from what I understand is that you are a very big Commanders fan. And so not only are you guys working on that project, but as a fan too, so Feel free to if there's other, moments that have brought you joy as well. But would definitely would love for you to touch on that. And I imagine it might have been one of those where were you when you found out that you, were gonna work on the commanders. Steve: I I'm very fortunate to have had maybe more than my fair share of joy in in the work that I do. I love it, whether they're they're they're sports projects, you know, watching the work that our team did to be at the inaugural Formula One in Las Vegas and seeing our team on the ground. A just a huge Formula One fan, but to see our team in action was just incredibly warming. I mean, their leadership was amazing to pull that off. But but I think, you know, as you said, a big Commanders fan. went to my first game with my dad in the late seventies. So I I gotta say I think the story's still being written, because I sure am excited about the work we're doing with the commanders. you know, w w we're a lead part of their team, lead engineer on their team, from very early on. And it has been a joy to work with an absolute absolutely amazing owner and client in Josh Harris and his team. And so I you know, to me it starts to really look like a full circle experience. Yeah, you know, as I say, I was my dad who took me to my first professional football game. And it was at RFK, so I have a lot of memories of this site. you know, walking through the walking through the tunnels from the parking lot out by the river, spending a lot of time in traffic. We're hoping to change that. but so I sure do look forward to the work that we're doing there and being back on that site an opening day a few years from now. yeah, and bring my dad. Caroline Valvardi: Thank you so much for sharing that. That is incredible stories and really makes, the personal side of the work it should be fun and it should be meaningful. And obviously this is a incredibly meaningful project for you and Steve: yeah. Caroline Valvardi: also really excited to see how it all turns out. So and in trusted hands with all the moving pieces of a huge mixed use district like that. So it's so exciting. so as we close things out, I like to ask this question of people, and there's a lot of elements you've already touched on related to this around leadership. And so would love to hear you talk a little bit of just as you as a leader, what you prioritize as a leader, and any lessons you've learned over your time about what makes good leadership. And clearly there are many things that you've shared throughout this conversation that demonstrate. the team that you've helped build. so if you can talk a bit about what you prioritize and what you think makes most effective leadership. Steve: sure. I I think overlooked attribute of of leadership is humility, right? There's there's folks in roles like mine that probably get too much credit, get too much of the spotlight, and if you don't stop to really realize you're not that important, that that then you're missing something. to me leadership is about working with and working through other people. W we couldn't do what what we do at Kimley Horn. without the eleven thousand amazing people, most of which spend the majority of their time in direct client service. You know, I I get to do what I do because of all of them. I've walked in their shoes. I have spent most of my time serving clients. These days I spend less and less of it and more in in leadership roles in our firm, but I don't take that lightly. And I think it's really important for all of us in leadership. roles and responsibilities to not lose sight of that. You can start to get pretty far away from the action and forget what's really important. And what's really important is your people taking care of your people, as I said, make sure that if you do that, they'll take care of your clients and we will do amazing things in our communities. Caroline Valvardi: thank you so much for sharing that and you've been through like you said, you've been through all the stages and places that your employees have been to, which I think is helpful being able to relate and even if people have been through those shoes you forget, but you clearly are very grounded in that. So thank you for sharing that 'cause I agree. I think that's, very important thing to keep in mind, particularly as you continue to get, to the top level and you're less in the weed sometimes on on the day to day. So really appreciate that and all of your leadership and everything that you're doing. amazing to have you on the podcast. So thank you again for your time and all of your insights and excited to see where everything goes from here. So thank you again. Steve: Well thank you. It was a real pleasure. I enjoyed our conversation and this has been a real joy.