Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / EXCLUSIVE: 20-Y-O PFC Vanessa Guillen body found in dried cement, shallow grave. One perp shoots self.

Transcript

EXCLUSIVE: 20-Y-O PFC Vanessa Guillen body found in dried cement, shallow grave. One perp shoots self. · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: We are bringing you the very latest in the search
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: for a beautiful twenty year old private first class out
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: of Forthood, Vaness Again. The search has come to an end.
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace as we go to air
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: now the search for Vanessa again, gorgeous twenty year old
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: private first class forth Hood has come to an end.
• 0:47
  Speaker 1: I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank you for
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: being with us here at Fox Nation and Serious XM
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: one eleven. Take a listen to this. This is a
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: sad update from Texas equa Search. They tell us they
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: are suspending their search efforts for the missing soldier from
• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Houston after what was discovered there near the Leon River
• 1:07
  Speaker 1: in Bell County. Tim Miller described it as a shallow grave.
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: It's you know, believed to be her Penning positive identification,
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: which happy the search for Vanessa is now over. Texas
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: Equisearch is now calling off the search for missing twenty
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: year old soldier Vanesse again after Army investigators found human
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: remains in Bell County today. There was a shallow graves
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: or rocks covered the graves and stuff. And then if
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: you know, for the three days after you disappear at range,
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: so everything just looked natural. He are hearing the voice
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: of our long time friend and colleague, Tim Miller of Equasearch,
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: who is with us now, along with an all star
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: panel of guests, including the attorney for Vanesse Agean's family,
• 2:00
  Speaker 1: Shell Kawan, psychoanalyst, joining us out of Beverly Hills at
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Bethany Marshall dot Com, Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, death investigator,
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, Joseph Scott Morgan,
• 2:14
  Speaker 1: and special guests k x x VT verst to crime
• 2:19
  Speaker 1: victim turned crusader Tim Miller. Tim tell us in as
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: much detail as you can what happened. Well, Nancy, you
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: know what we've found. You know I've been saying, we
• 2:38
  Speaker 1: found some evidence and we knew it was evidence connected
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: to Banessa's disappearance less Saturday, and it's the evidence was burned,
• 2:50
  Speaker 1: but there was some of it that did not burn
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: and we knew immediately it was evidence. We actually doug
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: ye it wasn't, but I'm believing in Nancy. It was
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: only three feet away and the where the shallow grave
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: was at, we were actually standing on top of little
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Vanessa's body. The Texas rangers were there, the military CID
• 3:14
  Speaker 1: cade were dogs, and what a job they did on
• 3:19
  Speaker 1: concealing her little body and what had happened. And we
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: actually was starting to search again in this sporting So
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: we had members up here yesterday and we was we
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: was out there to see too well after dark. And
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: I was actually right at that scene just three days
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: ago and really looking at some things, and I just
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: knew she had to be somewhere closer. What was it
• 3:42
  Speaker 1: a gut instinct? What led you? You've been telling me
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: that for days? What led you to say that? We
• 3:50
  Speaker 1: got a lot, a lot of information and the witness
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: came forward and talked about something that he saw. We
• 3:57
  Speaker 1: found what this witness saw? Can you tell us what
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: he thought he saw? Well, you know, when I get
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: my hands flapped out of them, I don't care at
• 4:05
  Speaker 1: this point in time, as far as I'm concerned us
• 4:08
  Speaker 1: over with somebody actually seemed somebody in one of them
• 4:13
  Speaker 1: big pelican cases about three foot by three foot with
• 4:16
  Speaker 1: them big plastic cases. And he was really struggling to
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: go ahead and get this into his vehicle. After witness
• 4:25
  Speaker 1: came forward, they had enough information to go ahead and
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: go to a judge and so we actually got the
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: phone record person went how long he was there and everything,
• 4:35
  Speaker 1: and hold on just a moment. I want to tell
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: everybody what you're talking about. A pelican case. I have
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: four of them, and on the front is a name Nancy, John, David,
• 4:46
  Speaker 1: Lucy and David. Usually really heavy plastic containers and you
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: can close it with a you know, a lot that
• 4:55
  Speaker 1: you just pull up to open and open it up
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: and Trent you can stuck it full of stuff and
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: they come annually big like plastic treasure chests or plastic
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: storage chests that you open and close and can latch
• 5:12
  Speaker 1: to keep it secure. A witness exists that saw a
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: man struggling to lift a pelican case into his vehicle,
• 5:22
  Speaker 1: and then we actually a yes, yes then and then
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: we actually found a burn pile when we was out there,
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: and probably about forty percent of the lid of that
• 5:35
  Speaker 1: pelican case did not burn. So when we found that,
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: it was like, oh my god, she has to be
• 5:41
  Speaker 1: in this area. Where was the burn pit? Tim Miller
• 5:45
  Speaker 1: right beside the Leon River where we was concentrating non searching,
• 5:49
  Speaker 1: and I was my biggest fear Nancy was Addy threw
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: her in the river. And that maybe she would never
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: ever been found. So when you saw that half burned
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: pelican case, what went through your mind? We knew that
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: it was going to take far more in a miracle
• 6:08
  Speaker 1: for her to be found alive and returned home. Do
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: you believe Tim that based on the evidence that we're
• 6:18
  Speaker 1: learning now, Well, let me ask a couple of pointed questions.
• 6:22
  Speaker 1: The witness, if the witness is accurate, sees a man
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: struggling to lift a pelican case, a black heavy duty
• 6:35
  Speaker 1: plastic container with a lid, into his vehicle. Where did
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: he the witness see that? On the base? It could
• 6:49
  Speaker 1: How could the army not figure that out? The armory
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: at the armory in the parking lot outside of where
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: she came out of the armory. She was working that armory,
• 7:02
  Speaker 1: So she had to be either killed or kidnapped on
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: the base. She was a very extremely physical fit, physically fit.
• 7:12
  Speaker 1: Isn't that true? Natalie Kawan, the attorney for Vanessa Gean's family.
• 7:16
  Speaker 1: She was in top shape. She's a private first class
• 7:19
  Speaker 1: in the Army. She runs all the time, Hi King
• 7:23
  Speaker 1: and her superior sergeant called her in off her day off,
• 7:29
  Speaker 1: So I think she would have had to have been
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: dead when she was putting that container. She unless she
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: was drugged, I don't see he could overpower her without
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: making such a ruckuss everybody around him could hear. What
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: was the state of her physical fitness, Natalie, Well, she
• 7:45
  Speaker 1: was super fit, um, you know, like we said she was.
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: She was a big runner, She played soccer. She was
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: working out in the gym all the time. I had
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: videos of her just lifting some serious weights. She was
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: gonna go for a hike that afternoon into I really
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: have to that had to be either our struggles or
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: like you said, some kind of a weapon or some
• 8:07
  Speaker 1: kind of drugs. Climb stories with Nancy Grace, we are
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: bringing you the very latest in the search for a
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: beautiful twenty year old private first class out of courthood
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Vanessa again her allegations that if she had been sex
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: harassed by her superior, The Army says they don't have
• 8:43
  Speaker 1: any credible evidence of that. Well, you know what, I'm
• 8:46
  Speaker 1: sitting here a thousand miles away, and I know about
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: multiple statements she gave regarding that. Everybody. You were just
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: hearing Our friend who was with us right now, Tim Miller,
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: who was in on the search and saw the evidence
• 9:02
  Speaker 1: leading up to the discovery of Vanessa's body. Now take
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: a listen to our friends at ABC thirteen Houston. Colleen
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: police are investigating after more remains were found near the
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: site where the remains of a missing Forthood soldier were
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: found earlier this month. Now, these remains were reportedly found
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: within walking distance of where investigators found the body of
• 9:23
  Speaker 1: Private Gregory Wendell Morales on June nineteenth. Now, he had
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: been missing from forth Hood since August. His cause of
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: death is under investigation, but they have said they suspect
• 9:33
  Speaker 1: foul play. The remains found yesterday have been sent to
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: the Southwestern Institute of Forensic Sciences in Dallas. The discovery
• 9:40
  Speaker 1: was made as Texas equ was looking for another missing
• 9:43
  Speaker 1: Forthood Soldier, Private first Class Baness again Gan, was last
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: seen April twenty second on base. However, officials have not
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: yet said if these cases are connected straight out to
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: a special guest joining US Olivia, Levada with k XXV
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: TV Olivia. So now we've got the remains of another
• 10:05
  Speaker 1: Private Wendel Morales, and remains near him that we were
• 10:11
  Speaker 1: just hearing being described by our friends at ABC Houston.
• 10:15
  Speaker 1: But that's not Vanessa. What the h E double l
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: is going on at ford Hood. We've got two potential
• 10:24
  Speaker 1: sets of remains, plus Vanessa gam is dead and buried
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: in a shallow grave, obviously evidence having been burned. What
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: is going on at ford Hood? Olivia? You know what, Nancy,
• 10:39
  Speaker 1: I wish I could answer that question. What's going on
• 10:49
  Speaker 1: at Fort Hood is not right? That's what I can say. Man,
• 10:52
  Speaker 1: you're not kidding Olivia, Levada joining me k x x
• 10:55
  Speaker 1: V TV, as the news broke. First, there had been
• 11:00
  Speaker 1: a potential second set of remains near Fort Hood after
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: the remains of Gregory Wodell Morales were found. He's been
• 11:09
  Speaker 1: missing since last August. Then this second set of potential
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: remains found near him, now Vanessa, as the news broke,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: is anybody asking at Fort Hood what you don't know
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: about all the dead bodies around the Fort Hood? And
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: you don't know about sex harassment? And now this beautiful
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: girl is dead and her mom and her sisters are
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: out of their minds with grief and they're what twiddling
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: their thumbs? I mean, look, my dad was in the military.
• 11:38
  Speaker 1: I support the military, but this is wrong. Is anybody
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: asking questions of Fort Hood? Olivia? Yes, we're asking questions
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: and receiving press releases. Press releases like a piece of
• 11:52
  Speaker 1: paper matters to me right now. I mean to you,
• 11:55
  Speaker 1: Natalie Kawan, you're the lawyer for Vanessa's family, who is
• 11:58
  Speaker 1: grief stricken. I spoken to her sister earlier, and her
• 12:03
  Speaker 1: sister so distraught in the search for Vanessa. How can
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: they say they didn't know about the sex harassment. How
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: can they send out a piece of paper as a
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: press release. I don't get it. Well, let me just
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: tell you this morning, I spoke to my client and
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I spoke to I contacted the big attorneys there and
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: I had it out with them. I said, how is
• 12:26
  Speaker 1: it that I find out and my client finds out
• 12:29
  Speaker 1: information from the media before they find out from the
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: CID from the base itself. It is so pathetic that
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: you have kept us in the darkest whole time. And
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: it's funny how you guys have loose lips on the base,
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: but you don't have the dignity to call my client
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: and give them the information that they begged for for months.
• 12:49
  Speaker 1: And I said, this is definitely we are demanded a
• 12:51
  Speaker 1: congressial devestication. I want everyone to be held accountable for
• 12:54
  Speaker 1: this mishandling of a case and a soldier's life. Natalie,
• 13:01
  Speaker 1: I am so taken aback right now by what I
• 13:04
  Speaker 1: think you just said, because that was that was a
• 13:08
  Speaker 1: lot of information. You're am I understanding that Vanessa's family
• 13:14
  Speaker 1: found out that her remains had been found through the media.
• 13:20
  Speaker 1: That's correct, Nancy cannot break in for one minute, Tim Miller,
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: I could just I just can't believe that before Crime
• 13:29
  Speaker 1: Online or any of us reported it. We asked before
• 13:33
  Speaker 1: we report this, does the family know? And we were
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: told by an unnamed source, Yes, the family knows. Tim Miller,
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: I cannot believe the way the family. I mean, I'm
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: going to circle back with you, Tim about all the evidence,
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: but I just you know, Tim, I was getting chills
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: right now because I remember how I found out my
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: fiancee was in fact dead, he had been murdered. And
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: it was not over the six o'clock news. I was
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: told in person. And you know, Tim, you've been there.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: You lost your daughter. God rest her soul. This is
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: just the way this family has been treated from the beginning,
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: having to beg for answers, the sister driving to Fort Hood,
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: trying to get answers and being stowalled. I'm just sick
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: about it. Tim. I mean, I know you you are
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: a crime victim. Can you imagine what this family has
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: gone through with all the bs they've been getting from Hood? Fancy.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: I was driving up here yesterday. Anne Mayor called me up.
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: The sister called me up and she said, mister Miller,
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: what have you heard? And I said, Mayra, has anybody
• 14:59
  Speaker 1: called you? And she said, no, Please tell me what's
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: going on? Oh lord, I'm choked up now as one
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: of the saddest calls I've ever made in my life.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: And I said, I I can't tell you exactly. I
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: only remained south to me to ask me. No military
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: nobody had called her. She called and said, mister Miller,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: please tell me what is going on. I'm hearing the
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: stuff from the media. You know what, Tim Miller. You
• 15:26
  Speaker 1: know I'm going to go to our shrink. And I
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: say that in a loving carrying way with me as
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: a renowned psychoanalyst, doctor Bethany Marshall joining us out of
• 15:35
  Speaker 1: la Doctor Bethany, I'm not just so mad at you
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: and Nell in half of the way Fort Hood has
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: treated this family, but I'm also hurt because, you know,
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: when my dad just passed away, I was so proud.
• 15:51
  Speaker 1: The military was there and they played taps and they
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: acted like they cared, and I believe that they did
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: care and he this family has been treated like this
• 16:02
  Speaker 1: by our own military, which we love and revere. It's
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: just a real kick in the teeth, Nancy. Some small
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: group on that Fourth Hood base is more attached to
• 16:16
  Speaker 1: their own culture of CIA, covering their asses, having an
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: investigation under the shroud of secrecy, finding out what's going
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: on internally, then caring and having empathy for the family.
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: It's a bad culture there. And I will say I
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: was on several shows with Myra, Vanessa's sister. Myra is
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: so brave. She was there twenty four seven pushing this
• 16:46
  Speaker 1: story forward, coming on your show talking about her sister
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: keeping this front and center, and the fact that they
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: would not call her. It tells me again that they're
• 16:57
  Speaker 1: more This is a culture on this base where they
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: are more attached to their own story, to protecting themselves
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: in their own internal culture, than they are to victims.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: It's inhumane, it's heartless. It's leaving the family out in
• 17:14
  Speaker 1: the cold. It's not respecting everything Vanessa did to give
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: her life and service for our country. You know another thing, Bethany,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: there are times when you may be too numb to
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: let yourself care, but in your mind, you know what
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: is the right thing to do. They didn't have to
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: care about the Game family. And I can't make somebody
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: care or empathize or sympathize, but you know what is
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: morally right and wrong. And they knew they needed to
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: call the Game family, and I am hearing now they
• 17:51
  Speaker 1: did not that Vanessa's sisters trying to call Tim Miller,
• 17:56
  Speaker 1: who's driving to the seat to ask him what happened.
• 18:10
  Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are bringing you
• 18:14
  Speaker 1: the very latest and extremely heartbreaking case about when I
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: say gorgeous, I mean gorgeous on the inside and the
• 18:21
  Speaker 1: outside of Vanessa gam just twenty years old. Why was
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: her life worth nothing to fort Hood? Why is that
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: because she's a woman and they're just not as important?
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: I don't know. Is it because she's Hispanic? Is it
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: because they thought she may file a sex harassment claim? Why?
• 18:48
  Speaker 1: Why have they acted like this from the get go?
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: You know what, that's that's a whole other can of
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: worms for us to figure out. And it's a can
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: of stinking fish. I want to get back to what
• 19:00
  Speaker 1: we know now. I am getting information right now, Olivia
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: Leveda k XXV TV that a member of the military
• 19:16
  Speaker 1: at Fort Hood has just died by pulling a gun
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: and shooting himself. Now police are not specifying what case
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: this guy is connected to. But I mean, I'm not
• 19:33
  Speaker 1: a rocket scientist, but I know that two or two
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: equals four. What do you know, Olivia Leveda, And the
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: last hours we learn a potential suspect has shot of
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: himself dead. Olivia. Yes, so, Nancy, this is everything we've
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: been told so far. We know that US marshals and
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: the Killeen Police Department, which is a city just outside
• 19:54
  Speaker 1: of Fort Hood, they assisted investigators with the Fort Hood
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: CID and one of their criminal cases early Wednesday morning. Today,
• 20:05
  Speaker 1: officials also saying that just before one thirty am, the
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: officers located this suspect, and they say that the officers
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: attempted to make contact with the suspect and he displayed
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: that weapon and discharged it toward himself. As you said,
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: at this point, we had not been told if this
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: criminal case was in reference to Vanessa, also to Natalie Kawan.
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: The lawyer for the Vanessagian family, Natalie, I think you
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: may have information on the shooting as well. What do
• 20:40
  Speaker 1: you know? Yeah, sure, I just got word that it
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: is the suspects to him that we suspected that shot himself.
• 20:49
  Speaker 1: They have video of him shooting himself and that's what happened.
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: Was they called a bolo last night. He would see
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: running off the base. I mean, this is breaking news
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: right now. We speak seen running off space which shorts,
• 21:04
  Speaker 1: you know, his army shorts on and they take them
• 21:07
  Speaker 1: and then he shot himself in the parking lot. I
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: wonder if it was the same parking lot where he
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: apparently kidnapped or put a dead body of Vanessa Gem
• 21:15
  Speaker 1: in a storage container. Joseph's got Morgan with me. Professor
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Forensics jacksona state author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
• 21:23
  Speaker 1: and Tim Miller Texas Equisearch, who actually sees the evidence.
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: Is there on the scene when this young girl's body
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: is found buried in a shallow gray covered with rocks,
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: and that tells me somebody took a lot of time
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: to cover up her body. How did they get away
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: with that? How did they get away with putting her dead?
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Or unconscious body and a plastic storage container leaving Fort Hood.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Why can that be you don't even see what's happening
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: in your own parking lot. How can we trust them
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: to protect our country if they don't even know what's
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: happening in their own parking lot outside the armory? For Pete,
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: say Tim Miller or Texas Equisearch, who has been searching
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: for Vanessa from the beginning, the very beginning, out there
• 22:09
  Speaker 1: in the rain, the heat, the mud, digging with k
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: nines and he is a volunteer. Let me just add
• 22:18
  Speaker 1: that on top of everything else, Tim Miller, it's amazing
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: to me that you're the one out there and the
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: army is what sitting with their thumb up their rear
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: ends while you guys are doing all the work along
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: with police. But that's a different issue. Tim Miller, please
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: describe for Joe Scott Morgan the moment you observe what
• 22:41
  Speaker 1: you saw and I'm going to get him to analyze
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: it forensically. Well, when we found again, Nancy that that
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: Pelican case, we knew it was evidence we dug under
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: and he tried to burn it. It's one of the
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: trees to burn it burned brances and leaves us the
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: tree fifteen foot high? Why nobody? Wait, wait, wait, wait, Tim,
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: will you say that again? That's really interesting to me. Yeah,
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: we found the burn pile. Uh, and leaves and branches
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: were burned about fifteen high, fifteen feet up in the tree.
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: So why not some big bonfire? Question? Tim? How far
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: away from ford Hood is this? Twenty six miles? Twenty
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: six miles? Okay, go ahead, and a mixed concrete they've
• 23:26
  Speaker 1: actually had concrete. They mixed up concrete. They dug the grave,
• 23:30
  Speaker 1: They put some line in the grave. They went ahead
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: and poured concrete over top of it, put dirt over that,
• 23:35
  Speaker 1: put rocks over top of that. No, they spent time.
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: They spent time. And I noticed that you're setting they
• 23:43
  Speaker 1: and that tells me that there's more than one suspect. Yeah,
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: I mean who who whoever? I'm you know, I may
• 23:49
  Speaker 1: have misquoted that. Actually, yeah, who ever did it? Now
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: here's the next question, and hopefully we'll know today. But
• 23:59
  Speaker 1: they're say, question mark, whether all of her body was found,
• 24:03
  Speaker 1: whether all the body parts are there. So we say
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: the search is over, but we should know by the
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: end of the day whether all the body parts are there,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: and if not, we'll guess what would search is going
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: to go on for more body parts? Do you have
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: reason to believe all of her body is not there?
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: That was the word late last night. That was the
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: word late. I mean she was dismembered as well. I
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: don't know. I don't know. I don't anymore to Tim.
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: I mean, people ask me this all the time, but
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: I got to ask you, how do you keep going
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: when you see this over and over and over? Nancy?
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: I'm real human, I have real tears. I lose a
• 24:43
  Speaker 1: lot of sleep over this. At times I say I
• 24:46
  Speaker 1: can't go on anymore. But you know what, when you
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: get that call from the family and say, mister Miller,
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: please help, how can I say no? I wish somebody
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: would be on the other end of that phone. If
• 24:57
  Speaker 1: they can say no, they're different person than me, you know.
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics and death investigator. That is
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: why so many lawyers, so many police, so many investigators
• 25:10
  Speaker 1: just crack up or they just leave. They leave it
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: because it's overwhelming. I was up half the night thinking
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: about Vanessa's family because I just keep hearing her sister's
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: voice when we would talk about trying to find Vanessa
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: and what a sweet home girl she was wanted to
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: stay in. Would come home every weekend, drive the three
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: hours to get home. You know. I used to do
• 25:37
  Speaker 1: that when I first started practicing law in Atlanta. I
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: did it for years. I'd go home to Macon every
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: weekend just thinking about that and her family now getting
• 25:48
  Speaker 1: this news, and now I hear from Tim Miller. They
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: had to call him. He's driving in the rain and
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: he has to tell them, you know what, Let me
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: get away from the emotion, or I'll just totally get
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: down in that hole and can't get out. Let me
• 26:02
  Speaker 1: talk about the evidence. That's something I can analyze. I
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: can understand that you're hearing what Miller is saying. Go
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: Joe Scott, Yay, you listen. They showed up, you know,
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: they showed up prepared, Nancy. You know what Tim is
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: telling us here relative to gravel or rock, that her
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: body was buried, that the grave was prepped, and that
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: they utilize lime. And for those that don't know, you've
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: probably heard about line before in movies and this sort
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: of thing. People a toss this white substance and it
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: is white and you know it allegedly speeds decay, and
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: so that goes to kind of a mindset, what are
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: you looking to do where you're looking to get rid
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: of a body, or at least in their thought, they're
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: going to get rid of a body and then they're
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: going to cover it with rock. Well, why do you
• 26:50
  Speaker 1: do that? Saying nay because you believe that there are
• 26:53
  Speaker 1: two suspects. It's not right Jackie Olivia Elevada and there
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: are two suspects, once in custody, once shot himself. I
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: think that's a good question for Natalie. Yeah, you know what,
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: you're right because she has some inside info crime stories
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, for those of you just joining us,
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: we are giving you the latest in the discovery of
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: the body of twenty year old Vanessa Game and with
• 27:32
  Speaker 1: me an all star panel. But Natalie Kawana, lawyer for
• 27:35
  Speaker 1: Vanessa Gain's family, isn't it true there's more than one suspect.
• 27:40
  Speaker 1: That's correct. Sorry, that's correct. There's one in custody right
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: now and the other one's just shot himself last night
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: running on foot. Amazing to me, which is a whole
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: other can of worms for our shrink. Dr Bethany Marshall
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: to go into I mean, as much as I love
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Jackie here in the seat, if she said, hey, help
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: and get rid of a body. Oh no, but that aside.
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: Back to the evidence, Joe Scott, you were saying that
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: they the suspects, came prepared with lime to decompose the
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: body even more quickly too. Yeahs say complete gravel, go ahead, Yeah,
• 28:22
  Speaker 1: And that they're going to prepare this and create almost
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: like a vault, you know, kind of a hastily made vault.
• 28:30
  Speaker 1: And why would you do that? Well, if anybody knows
• 28:33
  Speaker 1: anything about digging a grave or digging a hole in
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: the ground, one of the things that happens is when
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: do you disrupt that soil, you create a natural depression,
• 28:41
  Speaker 1: well an unnatural depression and otherwise tightly compressed soil. Its
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: thinking remind that soil out of fort Hood, that area
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: out there, it's it's kind of a clay based sand
• 28:51
  Speaker 1: and it's very very firm, tightly compact, and so it's
• 28:56
  Speaker 1: going to leave a hole. It'll be noticeable. So my
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: thought is they don't awareness of this, Nancy. They're gonna
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: mix up concrete out there and try to form this
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: over her body to encapsulate her body. But this is
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: this is a thing that's kind of key to me
• 29:11
  Speaker 1: because this is something that has been coming up over
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: and over and over again. It's the word shallow. Um.
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: If you're gonna go to all this trouble, why dig
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: a shallow grave in order to facilitate where they rushed,
• 29:26
  Speaker 1: you know, in this where they just trying to get
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: out of there. In my experience and having worked thousands
• 29:31
  Speaker 1: of cases, is that the line share of people in
• 29:35
  Speaker 1: general public are not used to dealing with dead bodies,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: and so they get in the middle of this thing,
• 29:40
  Speaker 1: and I guess you haven't lifted a dead body. It's
• 29:45
  Speaker 1: so hard to lift a dead body. Was trying to
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: was struggling right there in the parking lot in front
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: of God and everybody to put the Pelican case. Tim
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Miller's telling us about into the vehicle, and I want
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: you to hear this because this is going to affect
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: your analysis taken. Listen to our friends at ABC. Human
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: remains were found this morning. This comes after someone was
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: out here working on the fence. They said they saw
• 30:15
  Speaker 1: the human remains or what they thought were human remains,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: and they called Bell County Sheriff's Department, who then came
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: out here, contacted the FBI, and contacted Army CID, who
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: later confirmed they were indeed human remains. But here today
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: is Bell County Sheriff's Department, FBI, Army CID, DPS, and
• 30:32
  Speaker 1: Texas Equal SARCH. Human remains were found right this close
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: to the street, and DPS Sergeant Brian Washco spoke earlier
• 30:40
  Speaker 1: about what led investigators back to this location that they
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: searched on June twenty second. Throughout the investigation. Throughout the
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: course investigation, more information was received which led the Texas
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: Rangers who were assisting the US ARMYCID. Well, yeah, the
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: CID was there, but as you hear from Tim Miller,
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: a civilian spotted one of the purps struggling to get
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: a black Classic container in a car in a vehicle.
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: That container was found half burned. Tim Miller saw it
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: and is there at the time of the discovery of
• 31:18
  Speaker 1: Vanessa's body. But a civilian smells a foul odor according
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: to our friends. You were just hearing nikkilat Rulo at
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: Casey E NTV. What about it, jos, I continue your analysis? Hey, yeah,
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: you know they showed up prepped and and they're going
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: to dig a shallow grave. And what Tim was talking
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: about is curious as well. After her body is deposited here,
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: I don't want to call her her, I want to
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: say Vanessa. After Vanessa's body was buried in this you
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: know throw together that they had, then they're going to
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: go and you know Tim talked about a burnpile. They're
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: going to try to burn this Pelican case. I've got
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: a Pelican case as well. These things are robust, Nancy,
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: as you well know, and they're they're meant they're sealed
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: in order to prevent water and moisture to get in there.
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: So that again goes to the mindset of these people.
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: They know that they're using this case in order to
• 32:19
  Speaker 1: transport a body. Well, what are you going to leave
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: behind the case? Well, you're going to leave behind trace evidence.
• 32:23
  Speaker 1: So they had awareness of this. Why are you going
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: to go to all this trouble to burn this valuable case? Well,
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: because you know that it's two and two together. If
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: you show up with this thing in your possession, you
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: know the cops going to examine it, So that again
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: goes to motive. But getting the body off post now
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: I'm an old soldier, Nancy, and I do know this
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: about the army, and I learned this when I first
• 32:46
  Speaker 1: went in at eighteen years of age. Right way, wrong way,
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: Army way, and the army has a way of doing things,
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: and they are a closed society now are closed culture.
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: Like Bethany had mentioned earlier, Vanessa worked what we common
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: refer to as an armorer. That means that she repaired
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: small arms. And this is not you know, if you
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: go into the armory at at a post, this is
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: a highly secured area. That's what's so striking to me
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: about this. It's a highly secured area because, look, you
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: keep small arms in there, you don't, you know, contrary
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: to what people think, soldiers don't just walk around with
• 33:23
  Speaker 1: their firearms or where their weapons. They have to take
• 33:26
  Speaker 1: them in, store them in the armory, all right, and
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: then you come out and you take them from the armory.
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: And there's very little people who are allowed, as we
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: used to say, on the other side of the counter
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: in the armory because you've got deadly weapons in there.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: So that means to me, particularly in this day and age,
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: that their security on that area. The army knows what's
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: going on. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: had CCTV that is going to account for her location
• 33:58
  Speaker 1: those moments immediately when she entered the armory and then
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: when she left. And yeah, what about Colin Muster when
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: you they said she absolutely was there, and she was
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: she wasn't, she was gone. It's just it's it's striking
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: to me that you can miss this young soldier like this,
• 34:19
  Speaker 1: that she is allowed her remains. And this is the
• 34:23
  Speaker 1: key as well. I don't know she was alive or
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: deceased when she rolled off at Fort Hood. Did they
• 34:30
  Speaker 1: kill her on post or did they take her off?
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: And Tim Miller joining us from Texas EQUI search first
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: him if you could, based on what you know now,
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: answer that question, was she dead when she was surreptitiously
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: taken off Fort Hood? And if you could describe for
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: those just joining us, what you observed at the discovery
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: of Vanessa's body. Well, my theory is, and I think
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: everybody she was killed inside the armory. I think she
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: was killed earlier that morning inside the armory, came back
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: about eight thirty that night. That's when somebody spotted him
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: with that pelican case. So she apparently could have been
• 35:16
  Speaker 1: in that pelican case for ten hours inside the armory somewhere.
• 35:21
  Speaker 1: The one of the sad things yesterday out out in
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: a site, Nancy, is when they did get to Vanessa's
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: little body out there, there was she was still covered
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: in concrete. It was a mold. So what they did
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: is they put the concrete her little body that was
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: still molded into concrete in the body bag. So as
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: we're speaking right now, I'm sure they are just very
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: slowly chipping concrete a wife of her little remains and
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: stuff to be able to do an autopsy report. Jim,
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: I'm just trying to take in what you just said.
• 35:57
  Speaker 1: So the killer poured wet cement directly onto Vanessa. She
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: was molded in the concrete. They had to take the concrete.
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: Was her little body in the concrete. And like I said,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: as I password speaking right now, they're just shipping away
• 36:19
  Speaker 1: concrete off of a body so they can do an
• 36:22
  Speaker 1: autopsy report without damaging other body parts, to see if
• 36:25
  Speaker 1: they can determine their cause of death. You know what
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say something that was never allowed for
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: me to say. The juries You can never under the
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: law put a jurar in the place in the shoes
• 36:40
  Speaker 1: of the crime victim. Think about it. Do you have
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: a mom, a daughter, sister. Vanessa was just twenty years old,
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: and now her body is found in a shallow grave
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: with concrete literally poured on to her skin to conceal
• 37:04
  Speaker 1: her identity. Sometimes I wonder is there justice? But I
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: pray to God that there will be justice for Vanessa.
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: Nancy Grace Crime's story, signing off good bye friend.