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Murder In Moscow: What Motivated Bryan Kohberger To Murder The Idaho 4? · Beyond The Horizon

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: What's up everyone and welcome back to the program. When
• 0:03
  Speaker 1: it comes to the murders in Moscow, we know the who,
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: but we still don't know the why. And unfortunately, we
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: might not ever know. And that's because Brian Koberger accepted
• 0:14
  Speaker 1: that plea deal that was offered by the state after
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: his team approached the state looking to make a deal.
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: And like I've said before, while I understand why they
• 0:23
  Speaker 1: would make that deal, I don't think that it was
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: the right way to go. And that's because I think
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: they had enough evidence to get the job done when
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: it comes to the prosecution. But when you're talking about
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: a lengthy trial like this, and you're talking about a
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: situation that has to do with capital punishment, a lot
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: of things can go wrong with your prosecution, right? All
• 0:45
  Speaker 1: it takes is one little slip up. So the prosecutors
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: in Moscow decided that it was in everybody's best interest
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: to enter into this deal with Brian Koberger and get
• 0:55
  Speaker 1: it over with. But it's not going to answer the
• 0:58
  Speaker 1: real question that everybody still has. Why would Brian Kohlberger
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: do something like this? So in this episode, we're going
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: to hear from a few experts who are weighing in
• 1:08
  Speaker 1: on why they think Brian Kohlberger committed these murders. This
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: article was published by USA Today and the headline, Why
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: Did Brian Kohlberger Kill? Experts Weigh In on Mysterious Idaho Killings.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: The author of this article is Amanda Lee Myers. As
• 1:25
  Speaker 1: temperatures dip below zero degrees less than two weeks before Thanksgiving,
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: six college kids were cozy in their bedrooms resting up
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: before the week's classes at the University of Idaho. Creeping
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: through the night, armed with a knife, Brian Kohlberger stalked
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: them like helpless prey. Kohlberger moved through the house almost silently.
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: He started the killing on the third floor with 21-year-old
• 1:49
  Speaker 1: best friends and roommates Madison Mogan and Kaylee Gonsalves. Then
• 1:54
  Speaker 1: he came across 20-year-old Zanna Carnodle on a stairway and
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: killed her. Then he went into her bedroom, finding and
• 2:01
  Speaker 1: killing her boyfriend, 20-year-old Ethan Chapin. He left two others
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: in the house, alive. And all of it's just crazy
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: to think about. And for me, there's no doubt that
• 2:13
  Speaker 1: Madison was the target. That was the room he made
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: a beeline for. We have the overkill when it comes
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: to Kaylee, and then him stumbling out of that room
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: and running into Zanna. But if Kaylee wasn't there that night,
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: I think this goes a completely different way. I think
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: that Brian Kohlberger only kills Maddie, slips back out, and
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: nobody's the wiser. And from there, Brian Kohlberger probably becomes
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: a prolific serial killer until somebody stopped his ass. Because
• 2:41
  Speaker 1: if you think that Brian Kohlberger was ever going to
• 2:43
  Speaker 1: stop on his own, you're crazy. This dude has all
• 2:47
  Speaker 1: the makings of a serial killer. And I have zero doubt,
• 2:51
  Speaker 1: like I just said, that he would have continued killing
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: people if he would have gotten away with this. And
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: I don't think for a minute that he ever planned
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: on killing four people. He knows that the FBI gets
• 3:01
  Speaker 1: involved in that. Whereas if it's one girl who's killed
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: in her bedroom, that's going to be an investigation that's
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: going to be local. And Brian Kohlberger thought that he
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: was smarter than the local authorities. And honestly, if Kaylee
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: wasn't there and he didn't panic and leave that sheath,
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: he probably would have gotten away with it. Since the
• 3:22
  Speaker 1: moment the families of the young victims learned about their
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: seemingly random murders, their biggest question was why. As Kohlberger's
• 3:30
  Speaker 1: sentencing approaches this week, USA Today is looking at the
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: case and what could have possibly led a 28-year-old grad
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: student with so much potential to butcher four people on
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: one terrible night. Besides the fact that he's a degenerate psychopath,
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: because that definitely comes into play, right? Is there any
• 3:48
  Speaker 1: doubt that this dude's a sick degenerate fuck? But that
• 3:51
  Speaker 1: doesn't answer why. Why these kids? What motivated you to
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: choose these people as your targets? What would motivate somebody
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: to pick these four kids out and then go and
• 4:01
  Speaker 1: murder them while they're sleeping? And I think that's a
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: question that all of us have. Unfortunately, I just don't
• 4:07
  Speaker 1: think we're ever going to have any answers unless bitch-ass
• 4:10
  Speaker 1: Brian Kohlberger decides he wants to talk at some point,
• 4:14
  Speaker 1: grant an interview, write a book, whatever. But the truth is,
• 4:17
  Speaker 1: he should be forced to tell everybody what the motive
• 4:20
  Speaker 1: was as part of the plea deal. That's a no-brainer
• 4:24
  Speaker 1: to me. We're just going to let him get up
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: there and say, yes, I did it, but not give
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: us any of the answers that the families deserve. And
• 4:31
  Speaker 1: make no mistake, these families deserve answers as to what
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: happened to their loved ones. So I'm not surprised to
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: see some of these family members, especially the Gonsalves family,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: call it a cop-out basically by the state to not
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: prosecute Koberger all the way. And if I was in
• 4:47
  Speaker 1: their position, I'd probably feel the same. Although, I know
• 4:51
  Speaker 1: that where Brian Koberger is going is not going to
• 4:54
  Speaker 1: be a good time for him. That prison that he's
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: lined up to go to up in Idaho is an
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: absolute shithole. Certainly not the kind of place I'd ever
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: want to go. And when you take a look at
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: the people that inhabit that facility, I don't know how
• 5:08
  Speaker 1: good of a time Brian Koberger is going to have.
• 5:11
  Speaker 1: Especially considering people are hip to what he did. Somebody
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: shows up there, Watch these documentaries, listen to the family, whatever.
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: You just don't know who you're going to be in
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: a cell with. I guess that's my point. Ask Jeffrey
• 5:24
  Speaker 1: Dahmer how it worked out for him. But experts interviewed
• 5:28
  Speaker 1: by USA Today agree that we can conclude a lot
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: about Brian Koberger's motives based on the evidence and his history.
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: He was bullied, he felt rage towards women, he fantasized
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: about violence, and ultimately wanted power more than anything they say.
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: I don't know about the power part, but okay. And
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: the bullied part? Come on. Folks, sometimes people are just
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: fucked up. People like Brian Koberger are the human versions
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: of lemons. They're just born fucked up, wired wrong, whatever
• 5:58
  Speaker 1: it might be. But to act like him being bullied
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: played a part in him killing four people? I don't
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: know about that. I mean, it might have played a
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: small part, but it's certainly not the motivation all these
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: years later. At least I don't think so. A lot
• 6:12
  Speaker 1: of killers feel powerless their whole lives, and that's why
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: killers become serial killers. Because for the first time, they
• 6:19
  Speaker 1: feel like an all-powerful god, said Rachel Tolles, a clinical
• 6:23
  Speaker 1: psychologist and criminal expert based in Greenville, South Carolina. He
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: wanted to feel powerful for once in his life. Now
• 6:30
  Speaker 1: that's something I can get behind. Very possible. We all
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: know that Brian Koberger wasn't exactly popular. Wasn't getting picked
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: first in PE to go on the football team. So yeah,
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: that's certainly something that I could see. Somebody that's never
• 6:43
  Speaker 1: had any power. Somebody that's been turned down by women.
• 6:47
  Speaker 1: Somebody that's an incel. And they decide that this is
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: how they're going to take their retribution. And sure, that
• 6:52
  Speaker 1: might be the motivation why. But it still doesn't answer
• 6:55
  Speaker 1: the question of why he chose those four kids in
• 6:58
  Speaker 1: the first place. And I think that's what everybody wants
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: to know. Why those four kids specifically? Mogan, Gonsalves, Kernodle,
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: and Chapin were found stabbed to death. on November 13th, 2022,
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: in a rental house in the quiet city of Moscow, Idaho,
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: near the University of Idaho campus. DNA evidence, cell phone records,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: and surveillance footage tied Kohlberger to the stabbings, prosecutors said.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: And what's crazy is there's a lot of people out
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: there who didn't think that there was an ample amount
• 7:28
  Speaker 1: of evidence that's been provided against Kohlberger. People out here
• 7:32
  Speaker 1: saying there wasn't enough evidence, it was all circumstantial. That's
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: not the case. Sure, a lot of it was circumstantial,
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: But the anchor was always the sheath. And Brian Kohlberger
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: was never going to be able to escape that sheath. Never.
• 7:47
  Speaker 1: No matter how many theories you come up with, no
• 7:50
  Speaker 1: matter what kind of nonsense you try and pitch, that
• 7:53
  Speaker 1: sheath had his DNA on it and it was found
• 7:56
  Speaker 1: under a dead girl. Then you add up all the
• 7:58
  Speaker 1: circumstantial evidence to that. That's how you build a case.
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: That's how you get somebody to plead guilty. Kohlberger's past
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: tells us a lot about his motivations, experts say. During
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: his childhood, he was isolated and bullied and eventually became
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: addicted to heroin and struggled with his weight. At some point,
• 8:17
  Speaker 1: he was able to kick the heroin habit, lose the weight,
• 8:20
  Speaker 1: and get lean, according to the 2025 book, The Idaho Four,
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: An American Tragedy. It's wild because I know a lot
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: of people who have done drugs and heroin and the
• 8:29
  Speaker 1: rest of it, and none of them have become killers,
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: so we're going to use that as an excuse. Seems
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: like a reach to me. He grew up kind of bullied,
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: kind of ostracized, and he decided to change his life.
• 8:41
  Speaker 1: And I think he started viewing himself as a possessor
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: of power. Before he was someone without power, and now
• 8:47
  Speaker 1: he possesses it, said John Delatore, a psychologist based in
• 8:52
  Speaker 1: San Antonio, Texas, who works on criminal cases. Ultimately, he
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: viewed himself as someone who could take what he wanted
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: whenever he wanted, Delatore said. I think what interested him
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: was the idea that you could legitimately hold someone's life
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: in your hands and take it away whenever you chose
• 9:10
  Speaker 1: to do so. And I definitely agree with that. Somebody
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: like Brian Kohlberger is fantasized about this shit. Wasn't something
• 9:17
  Speaker 1: he came up with overnight, right? We all know that
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: he was at this house multiple times. We all know
• 9:22
  Speaker 1: he was staking it out, according to the reports from
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: the prosecutors. So it's not like he just woke up
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  Speaker 1: one day and said, you know what? This is what
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: I'm going to do. this lame fuck has been fantasizing
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: about this for years probably. The question is, how long
• 9:38
  Speaker 1: has he been fantasizing about killing the Idaho 4, or
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: at the very least Madison Mogan? Because when you go
• 9:45
  Speaker 1: back and you look at the evidence, and you look
• 9:47
  Speaker 1: at how many times he was at this house in
• 9:49
  Speaker 1: the months leading up, this was an operation, right? This
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: was somebody that planned this over weeks and months, and
• 9:56
  Speaker 1: then for whatever reason decided on that night in November,
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: to put it all into action. So we're talking about
• 10:02
  Speaker 1: a seriously, seriously disturbed person. Somebody that premeditated this for
• 10:07
  Speaker 1: months at least. And who knows, maybe even longer. Tulls
• 10:12
  Speaker 1: added he probably also wanted revenge on a world that
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: made him feel unwanted. Oh, poor baby. You felt unwanted.
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: Here's an idea. Don't be a fucking creep. Be a
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: normal dude, regular guy who goes out, has fun, goes home,
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: goes to work, handles his business. Stop fantasizing about being
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: Ted Bundy. Stop fantasizing about being in the BTK. And
• 10:34
  Speaker 1: maybe people will want to hang out with you. I
• 10:36
  Speaker 1: feel zero remorse or zero empathy for Brian bitch ass Koberger.
• 10:41
  Speaker 1: In fact, I'd love to be the one to push
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: him out of a helicopter into the volcano. Fuck this
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: dude and anybody who's ever supported him. Kohlberger's past addiction,
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: weight gain, and loss, Tolles said, also show that he
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: clearly felt empty his whole life and may have been
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: attracted to studying criminology at the University of Washington because
• 11:01
  Speaker 1: it gave him a language for his alienation. Kohlberger seemed
• 11:05
  Speaker 1: particularly interested in three killers, Ted Bundy, the BTK killer,
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: and Elliot Rodger. And through them, he identified with the
• 11:13
  Speaker 1: narrative arc that rejection moves to resentment, moves to obsession,
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: moves to control, moves to violence, moves to infamy, Toll said.
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: And there's zero doubt that Koberger shares a whole lot
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: of similarities with all of them. 100%. Koberger likely felt
• 11:31
  Speaker 1: the urge to kill for years, Delatori said, relying on
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: fantasies and stalking before he ultimately acted on it. The
• 11:39
  Speaker 1: idea of taking someone's life with a knife was probably
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: something he was thinking about for quite some time. It
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: just required a target, he said. People don't snap. People brew.
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: They fester. The negative emotionality is over a long period
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: of time to get them to a breaking point to
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: act out. And I agree with that, too. This is
• 11:59
  Speaker 1: something that's been festering for a long time with Brian Koberger,
• 12:02
  Speaker 1: and he finally acted out on his fantasies. And I've
• 12:05
  Speaker 1: been saying that from the beginning. Koberger, 30, pleaded guilty
• 12:09
  Speaker 1: to the killings earlier this month after accepting a plea
• 12:12
  Speaker 1: agreement that allowed him to avoid the death penalty and
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: instead face four consecutive life sentences. The agreement also means
• 12:20
  Speaker 1: he'll avoid a lengthy and highly publicized trial. He's scheduled
• 12:25
  Speaker 1: to be officially sentenced on Wednesday, July 23rd, and the
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: families of the victims will be allowed to address the
• 12:31
  Speaker 1: court at that time to talk about the impact of
• 12:33
  Speaker 1: the crime and who their loved ones were. And I
• 12:36
  Speaker 1: think that those are going to be very, very emotional.
• 12:39
  Speaker 1: Those impact statements, they're going to be heart-wrenching as fuck.
• 12:42
  Speaker 1: And I can't even imagine being in a position where
• 12:45
  Speaker 1: you have to give a testimony like that, especially while
• 12:48
  Speaker 1: that fuck bag is sitting right there in the courtroom
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: next to you. Many of the victim family members were
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: surprised by and upset with the plea agreement. This is
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: anything but justice. Steve Gonsalves, the father of victim Kaylee Gonsalves,
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: told News Nation Banfield. We had an outsider come to
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: our community, kill our kids in their sleep while they're
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: getting a college education, doing everything that they should do,
• 13:13
  Speaker 1: and we don't have the courage to hold them accountable,
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: he said. And look, I agree with him. I think
• 13:18
  Speaker 1: that this dude should face the death penalty. But with
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: that said, I understand the motivation by the state of
• 13:24
  Speaker 1: Idaho too. But I'm saying that as an outsider looking in.
• 13:28
  Speaker 1: If it was my relative, I'm sure that my opinion
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: would be completely different. Some family members felt a plea
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: agreement was a good thing and avoided the pain of
• 13:38
  Speaker 1: a trial and prolonged legal process. Colonel's mother, Kara Northington,
• 13:43
  Speaker 1: told Fox News the death penalty would give them the
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: opportunity to appeal and drag this out for the rest
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: of our lives. And there's a lot of truth to that.
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: When you're on death row, there's a bunch of appeals
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: that you can go through before you exhaust your opportunity
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: to try and get off death row. And that was
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: certainly a factor when the prosecution decided to go with
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: the plea agreement, right? They want to avoid that. But
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: in doing so, we're also avoiding getting to the core truth.
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: And that core truth is, why did Brian Kohlberger choose
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: these four victims? And now that Brian Kohlberger has accepted
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: the plea deal, unless he decides to talk, We'll never know.
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: All of the information that goes with this episode can
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: be found in the description box below.