Latest / Kyle Meredith With... / Rewind: Colin Hay & Bruce Cockburn on Longevity, Loss, and Still Finding the Songs

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Rewind: Colin Hay & Bruce Cockburn on Longevity, Loss, and Still Finding the Songs · Kyle Meredith With...

0:00
[SPEAKER_00]: It's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are.
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0:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And welcome to another edition of Kyle Meredith with it's the interview series presented by WFPK at WFPK dot org consequence and the consequence podcast network.
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[SPEAKER_02]: consequence YouTube for the video versions anywhere you get your podcast from you can subscribe to Kyle Meredith with and please do give this series a rating and leave a review wherever you're listing from right now those always have lots so much we've had some great guest drop by Elvira was here Cassandra Peterson herself we talked with Olivia Allen Lind about the series Wayward on Netflix Jeff Tweety leading her will code drop by
1:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Mary Stewart, Masterson, Rob Cordery, and Michael Chickless, we're all here to talk about the movie, The Senior, Hannah Stocking, Madison Petis, and Yavon, Orgy, they're all starring in the wrong Paris, on Netflix, Willem Dafoe, legendary Hollywood actor along with Curry Hawkins.
1:32
[SPEAKER_02]: We talked with both of them about the man in my basement, Softsell, OMD, Lizzie Hale, Sabrina Petitory, to what you get when you subscribe to the Kyle Meredith with podcast.
1:43
[SPEAKER_02]: As Mikael Meredith, today it's going to be a special rewind episode with two of the sharpest pins to ever strum an acoustic.
1:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Colin Hay, who once ruled MTV with minute work before finding his second life as your favorite sad funny troubadour on Scrub Soundtracks.
2:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And Bruce Coburn, the Canadian poet warrior who can go from protest chance to finger-picking spirituals without breaking a sweat.
2:10
[SPEAKER_02]: One has the hits that everyone whistles without knowing who wrote them.
2:14
[SPEAKER_02]: The other has the songs that critics call essential and you'll feel guilty for not already having in your playlist.
2:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Together, they're the guys who prove singer-sonal writers don't have to be coffee house wallpaper.
2:28
[SPEAKER_02]: They can cut you to the bone still make you laugh before that last chord even fades.
2:34
[SPEAKER_02]: We're going to start out with Colin Hay.
2:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Our first conversation, my first conversation with Colin, stretches back to 2012 when a meeting backstage at Bonnaroo.
2:45
[SPEAKER_02]: That's where we got to talk about comedy and tragedy, second chances, living in the present, his father, and not being the oldest guy at the festival.
2:54
[SPEAKER_02]: So this is part one of today's special rewind episode.
2:57
[SPEAKER_02]: This is Kyle Meredith with Colin Haye.
3:01
[SPEAKER_02]: 112, the weekly feed.
3:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Kyle Meredith and the one and only Colin Haye.
3:03
[SPEAKER_03]: How are you, sir?
3:04
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm very good.
3:05
[SPEAKER_03]: There is another Colin Haye.
3:06
[SPEAKER_03]: I think he's a scientist.
3:08
[SPEAKER_03]: So, well, you just, man, I try to give you a... I don't mean ruin.
3:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Yes, busy only you.
3:14
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm so good to go about that.
3:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't care about him.
3:16
[SPEAKER_02]: My mom, man, does not care about him either.
3:17
[SPEAKER_02]: And they're okay.
3:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I hope he's watching this.
3:19
[SPEAKER_02]: You hear that?
3:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Colin, hey, other?
3:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, the butter will usually kind of try to put a wow moment on every year.
3:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And there were a couple of this here, but I think you, for me, was the wow moment because it was like, okay, not only are you singing, but you're performing in the comedy tent.
3:34
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'm, am I the oldest person here?
3:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Are you the oldest person here?
3:38
[SPEAKER_03]: The oldest person?
3:39
[SPEAKER_02]: The oldest person.
3:40
[SPEAKER_03]: And the Beach Boys are here, you know?
3:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, the Beach Boys.
3:42
[SPEAKER_02]: They got you.
3:43
[SPEAKER_03]: He's probably the main one.
3:45
[SPEAKER_03]: I said, there's a lot of people who are older than me.
3:46
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
3:48
[SPEAKER_03]: Young and hard.
3:49
[SPEAKER_03]: Uh, but it's you and up at the comedy tab.
3:51
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, you know, I've been playing for the last 25 years with him after the band broke up and I play songs and then in between the songs I tell stories and I try and entertain the folks and sometimes I'm funny and sometimes I'm not but you know somebody saw me from the book's Bonnaroo at one of the shows I did and he thought that I'd be good for the comedy songs, you know?
4:10
[SPEAKER_03]: So, and I went on after
4:14
[SPEAKER_03]: a Garfunkel in Oats, which is, you know, they say the three things you shouldn't do in entertainment and that's follow children animals or Garfunkel in Oats, but there there was them, but now I was fine, it was good, it was good, and I enjoyed myself, and did you have to change anything up?
4:30
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, did you have to think about like for the first time you had to work on a comedy bit?
4:34
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, no, it's a funny become that I didn't, I did nothing, I did nothing, yeah, to, uh,
4:40
[SPEAKER_03]: I just do this.
4:42
[SPEAKER_02]: That's confidence.
4:42
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just the same old stuff.
4:43
[SPEAKER_02]: That's confidence right there.
4:44
[SPEAKER_03]: I thought, hey, what?
4:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Yesterday's going to work today.
4:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Another work so well.
4:49
[SPEAKER_02]: I noticed most comedians, though, as they talk about it, people go for funny because they had such crappy childhoods, and they hated there.
4:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Did you have to get to that dark place for your, for your humor?
5:00
[SPEAKER_03]: No, my childhood was great.
5:01
[SPEAKER_03]: I have no complaints about my childhood.
5:03
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm really, really lucky.
5:04
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's saying, but then again, I'm not a comedian.
5:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm way to play that one down.
5:09
[SPEAKER_02]: That's nice.
5:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's nice.
5:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, no, there's lots going on.
5:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, you know, speaking to those early years, too.
5:14
[SPEAKER_02]: You're celebrating the 30th anniversary of that debut record.
5:17
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, I'm not celebrating it really because I lost Greg Ham about a month ago, so it's not really, it's nothing really for me to celebrate, but I mean it is 30 years, but it doesn't, to be honest, it doesn't really mean anything.
5:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So you're not bigger than nostalgia, you don't go back.
5:32
[SPEAKER_03]: No, I don't really, I don't really look back that much.
5:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but he's a kind of a mind you know he looks forward that much either I just he right here is yeah right here Yeah, right now.
5:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm I'm honored that right now.
5:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm the most important part of your day Only because happening right now.
5:45
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, that's right.
5:45
[SPEAKER_03]: We're in the present moment and yeah We have to live in the moment.
5:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Hi on that moment's gone right now At the moment, but I think somebody said you can live forever as long as you're living in the present
5:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's very true.
5:53
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, I'm trying to try to live by that.
5:55
[SPEAKER_03]: That has very, very wise.
5:57
[SPEAKER_03]: That's wise beyond your ears, Carl.
5:58
[SPEAKER_02]: You're welcome.
5:59
[SPEAKER_02]: You're welcome.
5:59
[SPEAKER_02]: If you've taken anything away from this, you remember about our 2012, it's gonna be that line.
6:02
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
6:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Chris, you want to remember, because you won't be looking back.
6:04
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
6:05
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right.
6:06
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not moment.
6:07
[SPEAKER_02]: No, it is a testament that you have stayed in the music and has stayed this long, and you have done so much.
6:12
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, for however long it's been, you know, the 30 years or whatever.
6:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's very kind of you to call it an industry.
6:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, it's a bit out there at this point.
6:21
[SPEAKER_02]: The tentacles have spread out a bit.
6:22
[SPEAKER_03]: I feel more like a traveling salesman.
6:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, because I just go around and I don't take, you know, things out in the suitcase and, you know, if I can play the songs and entertain the folks, but that's where I feel closer to more than anything else.
6:36
[SPEAKER_03]: But having, you know, I've been around for a while.
6:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I have beautiful fans and everyone says that and probably everyone means it, but after I got dropped by major record labels in the early 90s, all I did was I played acoustic guitar and sang and some days I had a band sometimes not.
6:52
[SPEAKER_03]: But the thing was always really growing and they really kept me going in a nourishing kind of way was the fans because they came along and they kind of got what I was doing.
7:00
[SPEAKER_03]: So it was complete, it was an end, it was an end in itself, didn't require any any
7:06
[SPEAKER_03]: Radio or record labels, it's just like okay, here's a gig and and so it's been developing from that So that's that's really all I've got and it's it's dear to me, you know Yeah, I mean you got a second life out of that for the last decade.
7:16
[SPEAKER_02]: How you came back did it was wherever a point where you thought I could shed my old persona now I don't have to play the three the the three songs or whatever
7:24
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, there was a time in the 80s when the band broke up where I kind of a little bit like divorce.
7:29
[SPEAKER_03]: You kind of think, oh, I didn't feel, but you know, the songs or the things that stay with you.
7:33
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, the songs or the things that have been kind to you and the other things you came up with.
7:37
[SPEAKER_03]: So they're precious.
7:38
[SPEAKER_03]: The songs never go away, they're, and, you know, past now changes and so forth.
7:42
[SPEAKER_03]: But no, I'm using it as beautiful in that sense, and what was it, what was it, what was it, what was it, did you ask the question there?
7:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I know, I think you answered, you know, you don't have to get rid of that history and everything.
7:53
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, some people do want to, you know, but it's part of who you are, so it's like, you know, a lot of people don't play songs and that were famous for them because they have it, you know, they get sick of them.
8:05
[SPEAKER_03]: But you can, you can let songs go through constant rebirth, you know, if it depends on how much you put into it, you know, whatever I play those songs, I love it, you know, just because you can, they can, they can be fresh, there's fresh as you want them to be, you know, you're really in control of it.
8:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
8:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you've made some beautiful records, beautiful records over the years of solo records, everything gathering, really, of course, I know it was written under dark times.
8:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, well also, that's, you know, yeah, my father died a couple of years ago and I wrote that song, I wrote that album after that.
8:32
[SPEAKER_03]: But in a lot of ways it was a selfish thing because it was a way of keeping him up.
8:35
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a way of bringing him back, you know, it wasn't really so much great songs about the fact that it was dead, it was writing songs that were inspired well, it was alive, you know, because he was a very alive man, you know, and, you know, he had a music shop in Scotland, and so I, you know, when I was growing up, talking about childhood, you know, from the age between the age of five and 14, I had, I had,
8:57
[SPEAKER_03]: time, you know?
8:57
[SPEAKER_03]: Really good.
8:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Well it's a great way to do it, everything.
9:01
[SPEAKER_02]: With the whole acoustic tip, you think you could ever do the pop thing again.
9:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I always think of what do you think, like what do we call yourself a folk artist now?
9:08
[SPEAKER_03]: I don't really call myself anything, I just think all these have gone.
9:10
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I mean, I make records and I don't think they're acoustic albums because they've got drums and they're loud things on them, you know?
9:16
[SPEAKER_03]: I still think that I'm a pop singer.
9:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
9:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, you're a great singer, regardless, though.
9:21
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, I mean, I mean, you know, the looting myself, but I don't know.
9:24
[SPEAKER_02]: But I like the way you say pop singer, it's almost like, you know, in the printer year.
9:26
[SPEAKER_02]: That's right, the pop singer.
9:27
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, exactly, exactly.
9:29
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm calling him in the biggest years.
9:30
[SPEAKER_03]: That's right, so.
9:31
[SPEAKER_03]: My father used to sing my songs to me, too.
9:33
[SPEAKER_03]: He used to groom them.
9:34
[SPEAKER_03]: He used to sing your songs to me, too.
9:37
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, on the way to the airport in the cow.
9:39
[SPEAKER_03]: I couldn't get away.
9:41
[SPEAKER_02]: That's fantastic.
9:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And kind of weird in a weird way.
9:44
[SPEAKER_02]: But it worked for you.
9:45
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a pleasure.
9:46
[SPEAKER_02]: It is so much a pleasure to talk to you.
9:47
[SPEAKER_02]: And thank you for all the years you've given us so far.
9:48
[SPEAKER_02]: My pleasure.
9:49
[SPEAKER_02]: And all the ones you get to come.
9:50
[SPEAKER_03]: Okay.
9:51
[SPEAKER_03]: So this has been good for my base facility.
9:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And we'll be right back right after this.
9:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back.
9:58
[SPEAKER_02]: It's Kyle, Mayor of the special rewind episode.
10:00
[SPEAKER_02]: We still have my conversation with Bruce Coburn to come, but gonna feature the second time I talked with Colin Hay first.
10:07
[SPEAKER_02]: So the first time was in 2012.
10:08
[SPEAKER_02]: The second time, five years later, it was 2017.
10:13
[SPEAKER_02]: He was talking about his solo release, fierce mercy, and we got the talk.
10:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Also a documentary about his life that came out that year.
10:20
[SPEAKER_02]: This is part two, Kyle, Mayor of the with Colin Hay.
10:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey there.
10:25
[SPEAKER_02]: You're a very busy man suddenly right now it seems even busier than usual.
10:30
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah busier than usual yeah it came upon me the day or two ago I thought exactly the same thing I thought I'm quite busy at the moment it's a little too busy but you know you take it you know you take it you take it you take it when it comes you know and sometimes it's not busy but most of the time for the last couple of decades I've
10:53
[SPEAKER_05]: something busy really well we're talking about here i mean it's almost simultaneous right you've got a new album and a documentary about your life yeah and that was kind of that wasn't necessary we planned that way um it kind of happened that way you know that the the record was ready to come out and um the people who were running the the documentaries side of things they
11:18
[SPEAKER_05]: trying to get a deal for it, you know, and it's kind of finally happened, and then these these people said, well, you know, we've got it ready to go, and so it kind of seemed synchronistic to combine them in some way, you know?
11:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So this record, you know, we, I heard the first single.
11:31
[SPEAKER_02]: It is a beautiful song, a thousand million reasons.
11:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you've got this amazing knack for writing love songs.
11:37
[SPEAKER_02]: You always have.
11:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, it came up really, it came out really well.
11:41
[SPEAKER_05]: I was very happy with that song.
11:43
[SPEAKER_05]: As you guys are my songwriting partner, came up with a music for it.
11:49
[SPEAKER_05]: And he, my Sunday, I think he said, look, come over, I've got this musical idea.
11:53
[SPEAKER_05]: And he played it for me on this wall, kind of 80s, Octagon thing that he was playing with, an instrument that Mattel made.
12:02
[SPEAKER_05]: And anyway,
12:05
[SPEAKER_05]: It was really beautiful piece, but he was playing quite fast, quite johnty, you know, and now as soon as you played it, I thought this would be really good slow down.
12:13
[SPEAKER_05]: So, so, came up with the words, and then we recorded it, and then I asked Fred Cron, who's a musician friend of mine, to, I thought it'd be nice orchestrated.
12:23
[SPEAKER_05]: And, you know, one thing that's another, and the song kind of just really started to bloom a little bit, you know.
12:29
[SPEAKER_05]: So, we just followed that, and it ended up being quite a,
12:33
[SPEAKER_05]: quite the piece, you know, when we put strings on it.
12:36
[SPEAKER_05]: So it's, it's, I love it.
12:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, cool, cool tune.
12:40
[SPEAKER_02]: And it's instantly one of my favorites that you've done.
12:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And I related really quickly to the beginning of it, too, because one of my, I think greatest memories of my life was flying into Paris.
12:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And I was the only one awake in the plane.
12:54
[SPEAKER_02]: And I kind of pull the window up, just as the sun is rising over France.
13:00
[SPEAKER_05]: and they go one of the most beautiful sites ever so when you're talking about that at the beginning it's I don't know is that is that just a lyrical poetry for you or is that anything based on on fact I was when all in order to Michael's house he said write some letter can you write some lyrics for this this this musical piece I just picked up a magazine and the first photograph was
13:26
[SPEAKER_02]: And there it is, right there for you.
13:27
[SPEAKER_05]: But there's no way you go, I thought, oh, there you go, it's just, you know, right what's in front of you.
13:33
[SPEAKER_02]: It's very lucky to have that, just sitting there.
13:35
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, well sometimes you miss it, you know, sometimes it's things, you know, as they say, hiding in plain sight, you know.
13:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I kind of reading a little bit about this record, and I saw that one of the quotes you said, it's sort of an album songs from being a certain age, which I didn't know exactly
13:54
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, I don't really, I'm not really sure, but I think that both again, both Michael and I were writing the songs where he's a little bit older than me, but we just have that when we're downstairs, writing these tunes, we are of a certain age, physically and we're kind of
14:13
[SPEAKER_05]: you feel the pressure of time because you know you can visualize the future you know if you think about the last 20 years it's quite easy to imagine to remember and to imagine 20 years because you know it's it's easy to do because the last 20 years went by pretty quickly and so I think about how old I am and I think well you know maybe on a good day and if I look after myself you know I maybe got the movie cut about that much time last and you
14:42
[SPEAKER_05]: do whatever I want to do and join myself and have fun and all the things that you want to do with your life and it's almost like, I don't really have any idea about retirement.
14:58
[SPEAKER_05]: You've never really considered that because I haven't really had a job where you think all, well one day you'll retire from it, so I'm trying to avoid working for the last 40 years.
15:11
[SPEAKER_05]: in the straight world.
15:12
[SPEAKER_05]: So this is basically what I'm doing now, even if you're a tire, you're still doing it.
15:18
[SPEAKER_05]: So what done is working away and you're still kind of trying to, you still feel like it's 26 or 27, you're trying to, trying to come up with your
15:36
[SPEAKER_05]: bring it all back home or whatever album you care to mention that you love, you know, so you are a certain vintage, just an age, but you're you always at some point you just kind of
15:48
[SPEAKER_05]: the inspiration remains, you know, for what it is that you've always done, so you kind of, you are a certain age, but you still have, you still have, I guess, somewhat sparyide, you know, about the world, you know, and I think that's a valuable thing.
16:05
[SPEAKER_05]: So that's what I felt like to us, was that there was something both, you know, considered about the songs, but also something which was still, hopefully, anyway, I sense of wonder
16:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I've never understood the whole, when a musician announces their retiring, like I can understand retiring from the road because that's hard, but you know, as a creative person, like, you know, I mean, he'll tell me Bennett's still doing it.
16:31
[SPEAKER_02]: He's in his 90s, you know, he's about to go to another door, so.
16:35
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, he's an extraordinary person isn't he just a really extraordinary man.
16:39
[SPEAKER_05]: I've never met him or I bet but he seems like I'm going to get you know a really extraordinary person, you know, very very creative and smart and just been really kind of
16:49
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, there's a pragmatic aspect to it as well.
16:52
[SPEAKER_05]: He's like, I've got to keep working.
16:54
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
16:54
[SPEAKER_05]: Because he's got that thing.
16:55
[SPEAKER_05]: Well, well, you know, you don't stop working.
16:57
[SPEAKER_05]: Because you start working.
16:58
[SPEAKER_05]: And people forget about you, you know?
17:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
17:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And I always figured as long as you can do it.
17:02
[SPEAKER_02]: What's the alternative?
17:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you just, you get bored at something.
17:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
17:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
17:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Unless you want to, you know, hog farmer something.
17:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
17:09
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah.
17:10
[SPEAKER_05]: And there is that thing of all of just, I always,
17:13
[SPEAKER_05]: trying to make a joke about it, but it's, you know, you had breakfast, you know, not what.
17:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, right, the day the day's going to go somewhere.
17:22
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, you got to do some, you know?
17:24
[SPEAKER_05]: Yes.
17:25
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, dressed up, you put your clothes on.
17:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's do it here about this documentary a little bit, though.
17:31
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, you know, I see the guys approached you with it.
17:34
[SPEAKER_02]: They kind of brought the idea to you and it's a great way to tell a story.
17:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know.
17:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, had you ever thought of doing the other side because
17:44
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I've actually started the book, I started the book a number of years ago and then I just stopped.
17:50
[SPEAKER_05]: I had a feel terrible about it because I actually have a deal for it.
17:55
[SPEAKER_05]: It's not a deal that involves any money or anything.
17:59
[SPEAKER_05]: But basically a lunch and a promise that I would deliver this book.
18:04
[SPEAKER_05]: And I haven't, I feel awful because it's...
18:07
[SPEAKER_05]: Like, you know, can I make a good publisher and I started it and I was really into it.
18:12
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I don't know what, I know my mother died, my mother died, but you know, three and a half years ago.
18:18
[SPEAKER_05]: And then I just couldn't, I just, I couldn't do it.
18:21
[SPEAKER_05]: I would sit down to try and write stuff and I just was wasn't into it.
18:24
[SPEAKER_05]: And I'll get back to it.
18:26
[SPEAKER_05]: But it was around that time that these guys approached me and said, you had this treatment and said, do you want to, you know, do some filming,
18:36
[SPEAKER_02]: You could just transcribe the entire documentary at this point and say, there you go, there's a book.
18:40
[SPEAKER_05]: I was into it, I was kind of into the writing process and trying to figure out how you could write something about it.
18:55
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, one's life or things which just made it different somehow, from other book Sheridan, similar thing and all that.
19:05
[SPEAKER_05]: And then this happened and then this happened.
19:08
[SPEAKER_05]: It was more about my approach at the time, anyway, it was about very much the present was letting the present base, for example, if you're in a particular tone.
19:21
[SPEAKER_05]: you know, really let that read letting that inform inform the story of, of, of, of keeping it present, you know, like almost like a diary, but, but letting that, you know, the present day inform the past, you know, because often you're repeating yourself, and you're, you're present somewhere, and then, and then the past reveals itself, you know, but, and making it like that, rather than kind of, you know,
19:47
[SPEAKER_05]: to linear, you know, and, you know, and, and all the, all the, but anyway, I'll hopefully get back to it at some point.
19:53
[SPEAKER_02]: It sounds really cool, I hope you do.
19:55
[SPEAKER_02]: As far as the movie though, I mean, that's your life in moving pictures.
19:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Were there any, I don't know, startling realizations that you looked over, or moments of, did that really happen?
20:05
[SPEAKER_05]: There is more, because I've kind of traveled, you know, in relative secrecy, you know, for the last couple of decades.
20:14
[SPEAKER_05]: And that, you know, I mean,
20:16
[SPEAKER_05]: fans who've come to see me play and you know, done records and all that kind of stuff.
20:19
[SPEAKER_05]: But the fans, if you want to call the general public, the consumers, you know, once you're not, you seem to, you know, you're often the editors, oh yeah, that, what happened to that guy?
20:24
[SPEAKER_05]: What happened to that band?
20:24
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's, it's a little bit like, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what's, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what, what
20:35
[SPEAKER_05]: people are not, people don't really pay attention to, you know, in any great detail to what you do in your life should do.
20:42
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, they've got their own lives, you know.
20:45
[SPEAKER_05]: I mean, some of like yourself, because you're involved in, you know, you're interested, you know, people who are interested pay attention, but for the most part, people don't.
20:55
[SPEAKER_05]: So, it was good in that sense that at least you go, okay, well, this is filmed and it's a document of the fact that
21:03
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, you have been doing stuff and you do still exist really and you're still doing things that hopefully are you still in some way, you know, so quite like that aspect of it, you know, that it's not some
21:16
[SPEAKER_05]: that it's there for people that exist, you know, and which is kind of some kind of affirmation of the work you've been doing, you know, in a way.
21:24
[SPEAKER_05]: So, oh, it's happy about that.
21:26
[SPEAKER_05]: But, you know, it's a snapshot, you know, of what's happened.
21:29
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, there's always things that, you know, you get a bit of what you've been doing.
21:33
[SPEAKER_05]: And I think that the more they start to film, the more they realize that the bigness of the story in a way,
21:45
[SPEAKER_05]: the fact that it's more of a common tale than you know the legend.
21:48
[SPEAKER_05]: You know having a lot of success and then not going away and then what do you do after that?
21:54
[SPEAKER_05]: How do you how do you deal with the rest of your life?
21:57
[SPEAKER_05]: So I think that these guys, they'd come to see me play and they liked the solar show and they liked the solar songs and all that and they wanted to expose that to a wider audience, but the more they filmed and the more involved they got, the more they realized that the backstory had never really been told very well, you know the whole.
22:16
[SPEAKER_05]: That our work story was a band that was immensely successful when I just kind of put you just disappeared You know, so they got caught up in that as well Which became more a part of the story than all the you know the long of a film yeah, and then interesting when any time Especially in music as we look back on any
22:34
[SPEAKER_02]: Any artist who had any level of fame, it's always this little bitty part of their life, I mean, even when you take the Beatles, what is that?
22:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Seven to eight years.
22:42
[SPEAKER_02]: And I think Van Morrison says something to that ilk too.
22:47
[SPEAKER_02]: He was like, you know, everybody wants to concentrate on about three or four years.
22:50
[SPEAKER_02]: He goes, I've done so many things in the 80s, in the 90s, you know, there's so many stories.
22:55
[SPEAKER_02]: And yet that's the part that everybody wants right there.
22:58
[SPEAKER_02]: That's the hook, I guess.
23:00
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, I mean, I did some stuff yesterday and it's amazing people still said to me, so what is red you mind?
23:07
[SPEAKER_05]: And you think to yourself, you know, it's kind of, they all think it's funny and stuff and it's, I mean, on one level it is, but you think to yourself, why would they, why would they think that that would be a question that you'd really want to hear, you know, fall for two years later, you know, and also,
23:26
[SPEAKER_05]: You've probably got a computer.
23:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Turn the question back around on them.
23:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Ask what they did 40 years ago on this one day.
23:39
[SPEAKER_05]: Yeah, that's the point of reference.
23:41
[SPEAKER_05]: I don't really mind.
23:42
[SPEAKER_05]: There's not something that is upsetting at all.
23:51
[SPEAKER_05]: The thing about that was those things happened to me, you know, and you're involved in it, you know, you'd be a part of it.
23:57
[SPEAKER_05]: And that's something that you really, that's own.
24:02
[SPEAKER_05]: that relationship, you have with yourself is the really important exciting one because you know I was there you know when those things happened and that never leaves you you never never in a lot of ways and never leaves you that whatever happened whether you're the first time you came to New York or the first time you played here or the first time you did that that's it's all just so present that doesn't really feel like part of the past you know so it's something that
24:27
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, when people say, oh, he was once, this is once that, you know, you're always that.
24:31
[SPEAKER_05]: You know, it's just present memories that ever was, you know, it's not something that you think, oh, that's, you know, go back into that room, you know, and reminisce about about those days, you know, it's, it's not something that I ever, I ever really do, you know, because it's really just, it's right there in front of me, I was going to do a, remember it and think about it and I go, oh, yeah, that's.
24:53
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a great way to deal with it and a good mantra to have.
24:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I got a run and I'll let you run to you.
25:01
[SPEAKER_02]: I really love the new record.
25:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Nice talking to you, Colin.
25:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Take care.
25:05
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll be right back right after this.
25:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Welcome back.
25:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Now, time for part three.
25:11
[SPEAKER_02]: This goes, well, it's still in 2017.
25:13
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, it was a month after that Colin Hay interview that I jumped on the line with the legendary Bruce Coburn.
25:21
[SPEAKER_02]: He had just released his 25th album at that time.
25:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Called Bone on Bone.
25:25
[SPEAKER_02]: We got to talk about that.
25:27
[SPEAKER_02]: His autobiography, the intersection of politics and religion, and a whole lot more part three of this rewind.
25:34
[SPEAKER_02]: This is Kyle Meredith with Bruce Coburn.
25:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I got with Bruce Cohen here.
25:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's see, first off, I should congratulate you, actually, because the whole Canadian songwriter's Hall of Fame, that's a big thing.
25:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I feel like you were a shoe-in for a long time, so maybe it's more surprising than it took this long, but... Congratulations.
25:52
[SPEAKER_04]: I, thank you very much.
25:53
[SPEAKER_04]: It's a nice thing for sure.
25:55
[SPEAKER_04]: I have a night, it's not something I've been very much time thinking about honestly, but I mean, that kind of stuff is a part of the...
26:02
[SPEAKER_04]: music scene that I don't pay much attention to, but it's nice to be recognized for sure.
26:06
[SPEAKER_04]: And I think we'll probably have a pretty good evening.
26:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm probably painting it more than you would care for, but it's sort of like getting the crown on the career.
26:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Not that your career is even, you know, anywhere near finish, but it's a nice crown on top of it just the same.
26:21
[SPEAKER_04]: As long as it doesn't mean he's supposed to be dead, you know, that's the catch with all the same, you know, it's like, I'm just supposed to be like, over with Biden, but anyway, it is nice and, you know, I'm over that, so that's fine.
26:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, I think the same could be said about the memoir because it's sort of the interesting thing.
26:41
[SPEAKER_02]: You have your memoir out of the way now, yet your life still goes on.
26:45
[SPEAKER_02]: There's still more story after the end or what happened.
26:49
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, and if my hands fail me at some point, maybe I can write volume two.
26:54
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, let's see.
26:55
[SPEAKER_04]: We did leave it.
26:56
[SPEAKER_04]: It kind of opened for that because it ends the, that story ends in 2010.
27:01
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, just, just when I was,
27:04
[SPEAKER_04]: getting ready to move out here or had just moved out here.
27:06
[SPEAKER_04]: So actually getting ready to because I think the book ends about the time I get back from Baghdad, which was about it now, even earlier, 2004.
27:14
[SPEAKER_04]: So that's certainly the way that means that this is the end of the slide we don't have to go there.
27:18
[SPEAKER_04]: But yeah, there will be more story to tell at some point if I have the brain and the energy left to tell it.
27:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Does it seem in a way though that kind of cleans the slate in any way getting the story out there like that?
27:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there any sort of reset it?
27:34
[SPEAKER_04]: I wouldn't say it that way.
27:35
[SPEAKER_04]: I mean, I think what there was a certain satisfaction in having kind of put it all or what?
27:42
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, let's say, I expect to have it all because, I mean, there's obviously a lot of stuff that happened in my life up to the point I wrote the book about isn't in the book, I mean, just because, you know, the book would be like thousands of pages long instead of the 600, there's it is, but it was satisfying to put it together in that way and have it, you know, kind of the story of my
28:03
[SPEAKER_04]: growing spiritual understanding.
28:05
[SPEAKER_04]: I suppose it's really what it is.
28:06
[SPEAKER_04]: To have that catalog up to date, I've always felt like without really feeling like I don't have an ego attachment to this idea, but it's always felt to me like part of this songwriting job for me.
28:18
[SPEAKER_04]: It was to leave a trail of whatever it is to be to
28:22
[SPEAKER_04]: to grow as a human, both spiritually and in terms of intellectual understanding and all that sort of stuff.
28:27
[SPEAKER_04]: And the songs are kind of a trail.
28:31
[SPEAKER_04]: And so the book is a way of consolidating it into something.
28:36
[SPEAKER_04]: I suppose it's, you could say, if anybody didn't get it in the spot, they'll get it in the book, because it's explicit.
28:41
[SPEAKER_04]: But, and it says, somebody described the book, I think, I don't know if it's one of the words about it or somebody decided it, but it's,
28:48
[SPEAKER_04]: It's kind of a chronicle in a way of one person's experience of the
28:54
[SPEAKER_04]: of the second half of the 20th century and I think in a certain sense my experience while it's individual to me is represented of a lot of other people experience too so I think there's something to be shared there.
29:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And that journey towards spirituality and I know that goes into this record a lot as well on bone on bone, you know, spirituality and a bit of what's happening in the
29:22
[SPEAKER_02]: that were at the moment.
29:23
[SPEAKER_02]: It's nice not to use the name sometimes, but, you know, and, you know, you're here in America, you probably have realized far before this moment that a lot of times religions sort of gets lumped in with the right side, the right wing of things for politics, for whatever, whether there's a lot of reasons, but
29:44
[SPEAKER_04]: you know for you it seems like there might have to be a balance of trying to work in spirituality and politics or or is there do you have to try to hard on that I don't actually I think it's important to to pay attention to the potential for confusion there I really really important but for me you know I have my emotional reaction immediately immediate reaction to
30:07
[SPEAKER_04]: The stuff that comes down the play about who said what and who's going to do what and all that in the political arena.
30:12
[SPEAKER_04]: But I have a response to that that I feel, but in the bigger picture that my understanding of what politics is supposed to be about is really based on my spiritual understanding and an essential part of that is
30:29
[SPEAKER_04]: that we're supposed to log with it one another and treat each other with compassion, and as you start there, it changes.
30:35
[SPEAKER_04]: It's going to change your views on a lot of political stuff.
30:38
[SPEAKER_04]: People get all our work-tap over a confusion between relationships and social custom and between religious principles and their own anger.
30:51
[SPEAKER_04]: that we all carry with us, you know, from whatever source, and that sometimes, you know, is expressed in a mass way as we can see around us now in various quarters, but certainly it's throughout history, and you know, this.
31:07
[SPEAKER_04]: Identifying religion with the state isn't a new thing that we're identifying with a powerful personality or identifying with your own fear I mean this history's full of examples of this at all religions and I think we have to be very wary of that kind of connection between faith and politics But I think it's really
31:26
[SPEAKER_04]: I think if you come out from the angle of compassion and attempt to understand what motivates people, then it gives you a healthier perspective, at least, it also makes you feel somewhat helpless.
31:39
[SPEAKER_04]: There's such an outlands of the other stuff.
31:42
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, still beautifully said, though.
31:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And so when this happens, when anything big in politics is happening, like it is happening right now, a lot of people do turn to artists, sure.
31:56
[SPEAKER_02]: But there's also sort of an expectant, like, oh, this is what's going to be a music.
32:01
[SPEAKER_02]: But I get the feeling from whatever I've read about you going to this record that you didn't try.
32:05
[SPEAKER_02]: You never tried for that.
32:06
[SPEAKER_04]: I never have, it's always felt to me, I don't really think about it that much.
32:12
[SPEAKER_04]: It's just due to the next thing.
32:14
[SPEAKER_04]: So you know, there are songs that were written with a considerable degree of intentionality like say, but I don't remember ever sitting down and saying, okay, now I've got to write a song on this topic.
32:26
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, actually, that's a quality that's slightly, once in a while I've been invited to write a song for a particular purpose like a film and then of course you're operating
32:36
[SPEAKER_04]: coming out from a different angle.
32:38
[SPEAKER_04]: But normally, for me, it's just a wait for the next idea.
32:42
[SPEAKER_04]: And the next idea is likely to spring from an emotional response, a strong emotional response to something I encounter, whatever it is, and it could be anything.
32:51
[SPEAKER_04]: So, you know, this is a lot about spirituality.
32:55
[SPEAKER_04]: So, it's a lot about being a person in this kind of, what appears to be an increasingly crazy world.
33:02
[SPEAKER_04]: And so, you know, I mean, when I say it like that, it sounds like these are big teams, capital T that are there, but really the songs are personal to me the same way all my songs have always been.
33:15
[SPEAKER_02]: One of those, I'll actually point out with sort of all of that in mind, is three Alperty's because as I get, you know, especially from the press release, which is very helpful.
33:26
[SPEAKER_02]: They're not always, but they were this time.
33:28
[SPEAKER_02]: You know, there was a moment because of the time spent between the last record, writing the book and everything in between, where you had doubted if you were going to be able to go on musically, and it was a tribute, right?
33:40
[SPEAKER_02]: To Al?
33:40
[SPEAKER_04]: Yeah, well, yeah, the Alperty was a Canadian poll.
33:45
[SPEAKER_04]: He died in, I think, 2000.
33:46
[SPEAKER_04]: And he was of my dad's generation.
33:49
[SPEAKER_04]: I think they were born in the same year in 1918.
33:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And he was a brilliant poll at a really Canadian poll.
33:55
[SPEAKER_04]: And really in a way, I mean, it might be a little bit of a year had to be there.
34:00
[SPEAKER_04]: But if you were to read his stuff as a non-conedian, you might not get this aspect done.
34:05
[SPEAKER_04]: But he really radiates the soul canon as this is.
34:10
[SPEAKER_04]: a lot of his poetry does anyway.
34:12
[SPEAKER_04]: It also has a universal application, the way stuff of the heart does, but it's very Canadian, it's very strong writing.
34:21
[SPEAKER_04]: I hadn't really gotten into it very deeply, I was aware of them, but then, as you said, I was going through this period after, after I wrote the memoir, I spent three years writing in that and not writing anything else, so there were
34:34
[SPEAKER_04]: And I thought, well, maybe a song where things over, maybe I'm supposed to write, well, him too, the book instead, or something, you know, starting writing journalism, but the songs did start coming.
34:43
[SPEAKER_04]: And one of the triggers to that was being invited to contribute a song to a documentary film that was being made about Alperty.
34:52
[SPEAKER_04]: And there was the intent behind that was to,
34:55
[SPEAKER_04]: Raise awareness in the public about him and just place in this sort of literary, Canadian literary scene, and a bunch of us were invited to contribute songs, and it just came out a perfect time for me to, because by saying yes to it, then I had to get down and write something.
35:14
[SPEAKER_04]: It was going to be the kickstarter to getting back, and it was on the effect work, and luckily from hit did.
35:21
[SPEAKER_04]: So I came up with this notion of thinking about priorities poetry, just thinking about him as a kind of character.
35:28
[SPEAKER_04]: The character in the song is not him of course, but I just imagine this homeless guy who's obsessed with seeing a lot of homeless guys in San Francisco.
35:37
[SPEAKER_04]: They're really a lot.
35:40
[SPEAKER_04]: It was easy to picture.
35:41
[SPEAKER_04]: There's this guy on the street corner, ramping, apparently ramping, but actually reciting Alperty's poetry.
35:47
[SPEAKER_04]: And so I just pictured this guy and I thought that the line came to me, I'll give you three Alperty's for it's $20 bill.
35:53
[SPEAKER_04]: So that gave birth to the song and the song gave birth to the rest of the song.
35:58
[SPEAKER_04]: So that was very happy about that.
36:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I'm so happy those songs came.
36:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't mind saying that you've really done when you're finest albums.
36:06
[SPEAKER_02]: And for number 33, that's crazy, you know?
36:10
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a heck of a catalog you got there.
36:13
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I hope people appreciate it.
36:16
[SPEAKER_04]: And I'm looking forward to getting out and touring with the songs.
36:19
[SPEAKER_04]: That's the exciting thing.
36:20
[SPEAKER_04]: And basically, I mean, 33 albums were crying out loud.
36:23
[SPEAKER_04]: Although, you know, I was reading in Glenn Campbell's a bit of a weird, and he made 70 albums or something.
36:31
[SPEAKER_04]: Well, I've said, yeah, I've said if I last as long as he did, I've got it with nine years to get the rest of them done.
36:37
[SPEAKER_04]: I'm going to be a taller.
36:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I look forward to to all 40 some odd albums that you still got to come out, so I'll be listening.
36:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
36:46
[SPEAKER_02]: Lucy was really a pleasure talking to you, and thank you so much for this record, too.
36:50
[SPEAKER_02]: That's your super cute cute pile.
36:52
[SPEAKER_02]: All the best here.
36:53
[SPEAKER_02]: You too, take care, man.
36:54
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, bye-bye.
36:56
[SPEAKER_02]: And there you have it, Bruce Coburn, Colin Hay, thanks to both, thanks to you for checking out the episode.
37:02
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37:10
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37:19
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37:21
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37:26
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37:32
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37:36
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37:40
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38:01
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38:03
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38:06
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38:10
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38:13
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38:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm Kyle Meredith.
38:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll see you next time.
38:31
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38:36
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