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Real Football: 2024 Quarterback Class, revisited · Go Long Podcast

• 0:00
  [music]
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: A little quick trigger, hit and record.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: Jim, you were mid-sentence.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to slow you down.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_00: No, we have lots to talk about.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: He checked that point.
• 0:38
  SPEAKER_00: Let's hear it.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_00: We have to check on the Buffalo Bills defense.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I'm at in life right now.
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_00: I need to get into it quickly where, well, let's just say they have a good defensive line.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, we've established that.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_00: They are playing hard.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_00: They're playing ahead.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 0:56
  SPEAKER_00: they had to come from behind the other day,
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: but come on,
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_00: the charges are terrible,
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_00: but Here's what I found out, and this is what I was trying to tell you.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: I've always said I thought Rousseau has been a good pass rusher for the Bills.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously,
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: the numbers are crazy right now for Rousseau,
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: and he's getting national attention, but the Bills resigned him for a reason.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: He was playing well for them.
• 1:16
  SPEAKER_00: So I look back.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_00: 2023, that's the season, and remind me, was that the 13-second year?
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_01: 2023 was when they lost on wide right to.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_00: Perfect.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_00: So their defense that year was actually much better than this defense right now
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_00: in terms of pressuring the quarterback.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess for Bills fans, I keep hearing that they've never like, this is amazing.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_00: This pass rush, this defense, it was better in 23.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_00: So you have seen this before.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: But my point of this is, here's the numbers.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: So right now, points per play is what I always look at.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's going to tell you what a real team is doing.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: They're 20th in the NFL right now on defense in points per play,
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_00: and that's just not good enough.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_00: In 2023, they were eighth in that category.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: That's big time when you have Josh Allen.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Quarterback rating,
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_00: what you're giving up on defense to the opposing quarterback,
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_00: This year, they are 26th in the NFL.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: They're getting lit up by the other team's quarterback.
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: In 2023, 7th in the NFL.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_00: This defense in 2023 was Super Bowl worthy.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: Sack percentage, last one I want to talk about.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Sack percentage, not total sacks, percentage, which is what you want to read.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: Right now, they're 10th in the NFL, which is outstanding.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're talking.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_00: 2023, they were 5th.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: So my point is,
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_00: this defense, they've had, 2023 is your gauge right now if you're the Buffalo Bills.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: Because offensively,
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_00: we already know,
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_00: this offense is good enough to win a Super Bowl every year with Josh Allen.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: We already know that.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: The defense right now is not up to standard.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: It needs to get better.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_00: And that's all I'm trying to say.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying they don't have good players.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_00: We know Russo's a good player.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_00: Chubb is by far their best addition on defense.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_00: He, and I've told you this for weeks now, he's the reason things are happening.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: He does things the right way.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: He causes havoc.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_00: And Russo's benefited from that sometimes.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: I see Russo get blocked by tight ends plenty.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: Just watch the Chargers game.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_00: Defensive ends, dominant defensive ends, don't get blocked by tight ends ever.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_00: They throw them off in about one second.
• 3:41
  SPEAKER_00: So my point is, These are good football players buying in up front.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_00: They're flying around playing hard.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_00: And Walker obviously is a difference maker inside too.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_00: But this secondary and linebackers aren't good.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_00: They can't cover right now.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's just right now.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: We're still learning this defense.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: But those numbers tell me everything I need to know that right now until they get better.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_00: Now we have a get right game coming this week against the Patriots.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_00: If you're the Buffalo Bills, what better week to get better?
• 4:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're an absolute mess on offense.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now, here's the interesting thing with the Patriots this week,
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_00: and I want you to get your take on this defense,
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: but the Patriots are playing pretty well on defense.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_00: So this is going to be an interesting game for Buffalo this week because you know
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: the Patriots,
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: after you get embarrassed like that,
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_00: you're going to come back, professional football, Mays hit rock bottom.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_00: The Bills are going to get a big-time effort from the Patriots this week,
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: and the Bills' offense,
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_00: after playing poorly,
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: are going to get challenged,
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_00: and it's a good challenge because,
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: you know, they – They need to show they can come back from a bad effort.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_00: All right, so what are your take?
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_00: How do you feel about those numbers?
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_00: Or is that to you pointless?
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_00: You just feel like the Bills defense looks better.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, the numbers are the numbers.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know where my mind goes, though?
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_01: When you bring up the 2023 Bills, that was when I wrote the three-part series on Sean McDermott.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I couldn't remember if that was the year.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: All of a sudden, they're winning, right?
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_01: The Kadarius Toney offside.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: They beat the Chiefs at Arrowhead.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Brandon Bean gives Sean McDermott the game ball.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: Then they take care of business against Easton Stick.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'll give Jim Moniz credit, by the way.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: After the Chargers gave up 60-plus points to the Raiders the previous week
• 5:20
  SPEAKER_01: and Brandon Staley got fired, you're like, hey, keep an eye on that effort.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: And they gave the Bills all they could handle.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: The Bills did win that.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: They socked the Dallas Cowboys at home, obviously.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_01: They beat a bad Patriots team.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_01: Mason Rudolph in the wild card.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_01: And then they had the Chiefs in the divisional round.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: And what do I think about when I go back to that run?
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: It was Ken Dorsey gets fired.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_01: Joe Brady gets hired.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Sean McDermott's fingerprints are all over those offensive game plans.
• 5:52
  SPEAKER_01: He is setting the tone for this is how we want to play football.
• 5:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm not even saying that as a criticism because as readers that go along,
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: we'll find out with the Green Bay Packers last year.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: There wasn't that complimentary football.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_01: And look, I hate the term.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's gobbledygook.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's coach speak.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: It is real though.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a coach for Green Bay who convinced me there is something to it where
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: if your offense like Matt LaFleur's offense is quick strike,
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: five plays, 80 yards, bing, bang, boom, we're going to throw it downfield.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: That should be complimented with a defense that takes some chances.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because you want to blitz.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: You want to pressure.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_01: If we're going to give up a touchdown,
• 6:40
  SPEAKER_01: we're going to give it up early in the drive as opposed to what they did do
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: under Jeff Halfley.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: Bend, but don't break.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: Keep it in front of you.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_01: That kind of stuff forced them to go 10 to 15 plays.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_01: So that 2023 Bills team, looking back, they had that kind of defense.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: That was Sean McDermott's thing, right?
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: At some point, you're going to get a holding penalty.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to get sacked.
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_01: You're going to screw up.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: We're going to make you go the distance.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And Josh Allen handed the ball off a ton
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_00: through those
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: wins.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of James Cook.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_01: Joe Brady is not exactly going to defy his boss who just fired the man he replaced
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: as offensive coordinator, as play caller.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: So was McDermott on the headset saying, run here, run there, run here?
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: No, but it was said during the week, this is how we're going to win this game.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And eventually, that type of play style has a shelf life.
• 7:32
  SPEAKER_01: You get to Patrick Mahomes,
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_01: you get to Joe Burrow,
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: Lamar Jackson, whoever, a legit elite quarterback in the playoffs.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: You can't make Josh Allen a handoff machine.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: So when they lost that game in 2023,
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: I believe the column I wrote was the Buffalo Bills have a decision to make.
• 7:50
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to operate?
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want to run this team through that Sean McDermott style that he clearly wants
• 7:56
  SPEAKER_01: to play with?
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_01: Or do you want to run it through Josh Allen?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: That was the whole point of the three-part series.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the 9-11 speech
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: was a big part of it because it shows
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: that Sean McDermott couldn't see the forest from the trees.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: He's overthinking his speech.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Paralysis by analysis.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_01: That was in there for a reason.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: But I think what was kind of lost on the head coach
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: and maybe some people have been reading it,
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: the larger point was how do you want to play football, right?
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: And we talked about it way back at 13 seconds.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_01: That was two years prior.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: You can make that Doug Collins to fill a Jackson move now.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_01: You've got Michael Jordan.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a superstar.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where I'm encouraged to fast forward to today with the 2026 Bills.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: I think everybody's kind of on the same page here.
• 8:41
  SPEAKER_01: I do think that defensively they know they're going to give up points.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to give up yards.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: They want to create some pressure.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: They want some opportunistic players to step up.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: And they're getting it.
• 8:51
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think they would like more.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: They definitely want more out of the secondary.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe Harrison, Ibunosan.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're going to take chances like they did this last game.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_01: That's the strength of the team,
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: and I think that play style does play into the strength of the team.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: I went back and checked that defensive line from 23,
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_00: and it was Leonard Floyd was on that D-line,
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: and Russo,
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: and they're very similar body types,
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_00: and you had Daquan Jones at D-tackle with Oliver.
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_00: So Russo and Leonard Floyd are very similar with their body types and
• 9:48
  SPEAKER_00: the way they play with that length.
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_00: They win because of their length, and it just shocks people.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you can deliver that before they're ready.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: But no, definitely they've had this before.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now you've got to get that secondary right.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's what keeps the points off the board eventually.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's what's going to get the points back down.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so that's the bills taken.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: We can move on to plenty of other.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's get into the quarterback on the other sideline.
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_01: I want to touch on these 2024 QBs.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: They're all at junctures.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_01: No two situations are the same.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_01: Boy, there's some interesting reporting coming out of New England.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_01: Speaking of people replacing other people in their respective businesses,
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_01: when I went to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel,
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: the man I replaced was Greg Bedard on the Packers beat.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And he went back to, I think he went to SI first and the Boston Globe.
• 10:48
  SPEAKER_01: And now he's got the Boston Sports Journal.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: He's an independent journalist himself.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Check it out.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: Does great work.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: He's hearing that,
• 10:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm paraphrasing here because I don't have it right in front of me,
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: but the Patriots are befuddled,
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: I think was the word, that Drake May has been referencing the shoulder.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: He was very evasive when he was asked about the shoulder and if it's impacting him.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: And by being evasive, the interpretation is, yes, it is.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: And the Patriots don't believe it is.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_01: He's not getting treatment for this shoulder.
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like he's seeing specialists for it, to our knowledge.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's bad.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that Greg put it well.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_01: When you really watch the Patriots play offense,
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_01: when you watch Drake May throw the football, he really is kind of guiding it.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's telegraphed.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's guiding it.
• 11:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's steering the ball.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's indecisiveness.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right?
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's not seeing it, gripping it, ripping it.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_01: Anticipation.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought that we did see that for stretches last year, albeit against a not great schedule.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_01: But there was the anticipation.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: There was the timing.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_01: The deep accuracy.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_00: The great throws were on tape.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: He just looks like a completely different quarterback now, Jim.
• 12:03
  SPEAKER_00: 100%.
• 12:04
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't mean to cut you off on there.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you said that.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: It had nothing to do with the competition last year.
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_00: I talk about that as the Patriots as a team had a little false sense.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_00: But as a quarterback,
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_00: Drake May made Beautiful, high-level NFL throws every game, to your point.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: It was there.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_00: He was playing.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: He showed that, and I agree with you.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_00: The zip isn't there right now,
• 12:26
  SPEAKER_00: but I didn't know if that was coming from a lack of confidence
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_00: because he's not seeing anything.
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_00: Then you lose A.J.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: Brown, and we can't just throw that away.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: He was there for a reason, A.J.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Brown.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 12:43
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, their receiving core is worse now than it was last year.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_01: That's not even debatable.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_00: 100% agree.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_00: Not debatable.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_00: Agree with you.
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's not all on May.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_00: Never is.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: Just like all the success shouldn't have been all on May either.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: That's just the life of a quarterback.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_00: You get all the success, and you should get all the blame too.
• 12:59
  SPEAKER_00: But when you study it,
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: then you realize he's not playing well, but there's other things involved.
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_00: And don't ever for a second.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_00: The number one thing I learned in the NFL when I came in with Andy Reid And I'm
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_00: a Northeast Area Scout.
• 13:14
  SPEAKER_00: And when I always say,
• 13:16
  SPEAKER_00: you don't know it until you get older,
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: but you didn't know anything at the time, even though you thought you did.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever job you started at 25,
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: I promise you, when you look back, you're going to be like, I didn't know anything.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_00: But when you sit there and hear, all I heard was Andy Reid.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody on the sideline, employees had to be dressed in uniforms.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: Looked the same.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: He wanted, and the point of this is his big deal was no distractions.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking, why does he care?
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And he really cared about what a PR intern wears,
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_00: like what kind of shorts I have on or the girl, whatever.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: And then distraction, it kept coming up.
• 13:53
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want any distractions, no distractions.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'm a scout and I'm hearing, you know, no distractions.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_00: Guess what a distraction is?
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_00: Your head coach all over the media.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody can say what they want.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's not a laugh-off matter.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_00: That rubs a lot of people.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: And the head coach is going to be different, too.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: We all know it.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: Anybody that's been through life at home, behind closed doors, it's tough.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody does a good job of keeping a professional when they're in front of the cameras.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: But don't think that didn't affect Vrabel either.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess what I'm saying is there's distractions in New England.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Drake Mays, he has to almost be perfect right now for them to be good.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_00: The talent's not there around him, and the head coach has been distracted.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad you brought that up.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: How could it not affect the team?
• 14:43
  SPEAKER_01: I get it.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: We can't just take a pen and draw this neat,
• 14:48
  SPEAKER_01: perfect point A to point B line from Sedona, interlocking of the fingers, hot tub.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: Relationship that is unbelievably unprofessional for all involved and infidelity
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: and all of that, all over the New York Post and it's all over the world.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's the number one story in football.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: You can't like then pull up an all 22 of New England and say, oh,
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: that's why Drake May missed that throw or that's why that receiver dropped
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: that pass, that line missed that.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: But in between those dots, that point A to point B, there's definitely something there.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's not nothing.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_01: It was a colossal distraction.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: How could it not be?
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's what makes the NFL fascinating.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: We always come back to it here on Real Football.
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_01: These are human beings.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: These aren't pixelated figures on a screen.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's two elements here.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Vrabel, with everything he's dealing with there in his personal, professional life.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then there's Drake May,
• 15:49
  SPEAKER_01: where he just clearly doesn't have confidence throwing the football.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: And last year, up until the postseason, he did.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_01: He was one of,
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: if not the most convicted quarterbacks in the league,
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: the way he was making decisions and operating in Josh McDaniel's offense,
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: which is really complicated.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: It's not just pure progression.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: One, two, three, four.
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_01: He's reading coverages.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And defenses,
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_01: by the way, today are better than ever at disguising coverages right up to the snap.
• 16:18
  SPEAKER_01: You don't know who's zone, who's man, who's creeping up, who's moving back.
• 16:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard to do.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: And it seemed like he was doing it at MVP level.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_01: What was he, like one or two votes shy of winning MVP?
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_01: You can't fake that.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_01: I think he can get his confidence back.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: One good game.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe it's this weekend against the Bills.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_01: Win or lose.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_01: He just needs one game of feeling it,
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: getting that mojo back, the way the ball just flies off of his hand.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: I have a hard
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_00: time thinking that
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: Drake May,
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: the competitor he is,
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: we all know about the brothers and what he went through in North Carolina,
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: getting to the NFL.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he's a bad quarterback.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think he has just lost it forever.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how he gets it back.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_01: You only get it back...
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: Through success,
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_01: and that's where it would fall on coaching to maybe create some easy completions.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_01: You get AJ Brown back at some point, that's going to help.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: I think the season is too long for Drake May to not get it back at some point to
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: where he isn't guiding the ball.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: It's such a long season, to your point.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's too long to think it's over.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_01: I heard – I got to give Russell Wilson credit on this because I heard him talking about this.
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I've heard coaches say this before, but I'm going to give credit to a veteran quarterback.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: But he said if he could recommend anything to Drake May inside the red zone,
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_00: just use your legs when you're struggling.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_00: And it's almost like – you know how in basketball sometimes when you're struggling,
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_00: they say just get to the foul line.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Get to the line.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: There you go.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: Love it.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly what I thought about when I heard that.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know what?
• 17:59
  SPEAKER_00: Next time I'm struggling right now, hey, fellas, let me just do what I do.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: And we know he can move.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought that's a confidence booster.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: When you pick up a first down and you get in the end zone with your legs, okay,
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: you don't always have to make the tight window throw or the perfect touch throw
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_00: that you do have to make in the red zone and decision making,
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_00: which he's just not feeling right now.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: But, yeah,
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: it's always funny to see that basketball player after they go to the line
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: and they get that next open three usually goes in.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: It's just that one confidence.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: To your point, though, just a little confidence, one game.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: He's had success against the Bills.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they've split before.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_00: It's not like the Bills have owned them.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, like I said, the Patriots defense is playing well.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: If they can hang around, you never know.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: This could be the turnaround game for May, to your point.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_00: But, Tyler, I will say, coming out of college for me, he had issues spraying the ball.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the arm is real,
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: but I always noted accuracy, and I thought he left touchdowns on the field.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: The arm was just live, always live, live, live, live.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I did have issues with him overall as a complete quarterback player, anticipation, accuracy.
• 19:15
  SPEAKER_00: And you saw the signs of good last year, but I've seen this before too.
• 19:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I think this is what you want to talk about with this class.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody's arrived yet from this class.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_00: We can get into this, but it takes time.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Josh Allen didn't arrive right away.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's true.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was year two they get to the playoffs,
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_01: but he had that just – Spastic wildcard game against Houston that ran
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_01: the whole spectrum of all things Josh Allen.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: The lateral down the field, the bomb to Patrick DeMarco, right?
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_01: Remember that fullback bomb?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: Good recall, DeMarco.
• 19:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:01
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, that will be the theme of this episode.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: We really want to head on all of those 2024 first rounders.
• 20:09
  SPEAKER_01: By the way, J.J. McCarthy was just traded to the New York Giants for a fifth-round pick.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: We'll get to him.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_01: While we're on May, though, I just pulled it up.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_01: I've mentioned this coach before.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: T.C.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_01: McCartney was his first quarterbacks coach in New England,
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: and that's really what opened up my eyes on what Drake May is,
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: what Drake May could be,
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: because that was such a disastrous rookie season for Gerard Mayo
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: and all things Patriots.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: Just a mess.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody's fired.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: They bring in Vrabel, which that's another point.
• 20:37
  SPEAKER_01: Vrabel...
• 20:38
  SPEAKER_01: And if Vrabel's really the one in charge, remember that.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it wasn't his handpicked quarterback as the head coach.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_01: Just keep that in the back of your minds.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: Because at some point, if May continues to struggle, that conversation will happen.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_01: Vrabel will say, I want my guy.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: All coaches do.
• 20:55
  SPEAKER_01: But the things that McCartney said about May were just, I mean, their substance.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he wrote down how his football mind works.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_01: But also stuff like, quote, Drake is one of the best people I've ever met.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: He's always trying to do the right thing with little regard for anything else
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: in all areas of life.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: How fast he's put this together this year, he's going to be in that MVP conversation every year.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_01: He's that type of player.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_01: We caught up again when the Patriots were 11-2 about to host the Bills.
• 21:26
  SPEAKER_01: Sean McDermott,
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: by the way,
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_01: maybe stuff he did schematically in that game with all those DBs and kind
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: of changing up the look.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_01: You got to think other defensive coaches saw that.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_01: So, hey, let's give credit where credit's due.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe McDermott laid out somewhat of a blueprint there for face in May
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: because it was right after this conversation.
• 21:45
  SPEAKER_01: More McCartney stuff.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_01: Quote, I never really saw him frustrated.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: He kept pushing.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's probably the natural-born confidence he has in himself through that rookie year.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: You know what really stood out is...
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_01: McCartney pointed out there's two different types of processing,
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: quote unquote, and that he believed May was already mastering both.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Quote, pre-snap is your mental bandwidth and traditional intelligence.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: He's elite at that.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: He can memorize play calls.
• 22:13
  SPEAKER_01: He can study tape.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: He's going to have the right answer going into it.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: He can get everything done before the snap,
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: but then he is also elite post-snap, which is more spatial processing.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_01: The ability to see things happen as they're happening or before they're happening.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_01: The ability to anticipate he is elite at that too.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_01: Over the course of an NFL season,
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: there's going to be so many different types of defenses and disguises
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: that you must have the ability to read space.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_01: So if I can put your eyes in the right place,
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: And you're able to read space and see how these windows are opening up and
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: the different coverages, whether it's man, zone, one high, two high.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Within the context of what you're seeing, he has the ability to do that.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_01: Joe Burrow was that way.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, this is a coach who's with him every day through a nightmare season, by the way.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_01: They lost a lot of games that rookie season.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think he gets it back.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's this week.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's the following week.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think Drake may get it back.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: And the Patriots season isn't completely lost, even though it feels that way right now.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Well, if you are Drake May,
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: this is a week you're looking at,
• 23:18
  SPEAKER_00: like I said,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: for the Bills,
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_00: if you're the Bills defense,
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: you're trying to show your progress by building off a good game against
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_00: the Chargers.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_00: But if you're Drake May, you're looking at this as, hey, this defense is up for grabs.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_00: This should be a game where we can have some success.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: And like I said, the Patriots defense has played well this year.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I like this game.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_00: I like this Patriot-Bills game as far as to see where they're at.
• 23:48
  SPEAKER_00: This is going to be a Patriot like, we need you.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_00: We need everything you have, Drake May.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: We need your best.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Divisional games are always closer than everybody thinks to.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: Agree.
• 24:01
  SPEAKER_01: They just always are.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Agree.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: The familiarity.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: Vrabel's face.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: Josh Allen's some now with this personnel.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_00: The next quarterback.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Who do you want to talk about?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, do you want to go down?
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you want to go how they were drafted and start with Caleb.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I want to get your take on Caleb Williams.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just go right down.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: You might not see him for a few more weeks.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_01: He's got to get that job back from Case Keenum and Tyson Bajan now.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: So Caleb.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we got into it with Bob on that pod, but we need Jim Onis' perspective.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, what was he, 24 of?
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_01: It was pretty.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was his accuracy.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_00: Ben Johnson's getting all this credit for these play calls.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: But, man,
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: when you study the accuracy and the arm strength even,
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_00: too, Keenum was dealing, dealing.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: 247 yards.
• 25:00
  SPEAKER_01: And remember, Roma Dunne had that drop touchdown as well.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_00: I was never sold on him either.
• 25:05
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not surprised.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_00: But, okay.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_00: Caleb Williams, though.
• 25:11
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, we needed to see him against Minnesota in a good weather game, no injury.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: We needed that to see him against Flores, not to get hurt.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_00: Now he's hurt.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_00: So honestly, we haven't really seen what we want to see yet is building off his.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_00: We know his craziness last year was off the second half,
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: fourth quarter stuff, but you can't live that way.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we wanted to see was what Case Keenum did.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_00: We're waiting to see that from Caleb Williams,
• 25:42
  SPEAKER_00: is just that get rid of the ball, timing, in the pocket, and the offense just moves.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess it was good for him to see it,
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_00: but I will say,
• 25:53
  SPEAKER_00: and I'll keep saying it, Tyler,
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm still two thumbs up all the way in on Caleb Williams,
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: the athleticism, toughness.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: I love his game.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, there's some different stuff with him.
• 26:02
  SPEAKER_00: We've talked about it.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was dramatic.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_00: There is drama with him.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: He's a D.C. kid.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: We can get into that.
• 26:09
  SPEAKER_00: But D.C. kids dress a certain way.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_00: They always have.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_00: We always talked about this as scouts.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_00: They have an air about them.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Diggs had it.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_00: Fashion is important to them.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: And it's going to look different.
• 26:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's all.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_00: You're just not used to it.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: But in D.C., nobody looks at them in D.C.
• 26:28
  SPEAKER_00: They fit right in.
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: But we're not used to some of their style.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: But as far as his football play, I'm still all in on them.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I can't wait to see them come back.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah,
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: that's what we want to see is the timing and just the not having to do all
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: the Superman throws all the time.
• 26:50
  SPEAKER_01: You could see Ben Johnson through the rough stretches of 2025,
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: gritting his teeth those first three quarters and trying to restrain himself
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_01: because he is seeing it.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_01: He is seeing What Case Keenum saw last night and everything's timing,
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: timing based,
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_01: getting it out,
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: spreading out,
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: giving it Kalief Raymond,
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Roma Dunze, Colson Loveland, all over the field, a sequencing of plays.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: And yet Ben Johnson also knows that when I have Caleb Williams,
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: he might do something that drops every jaw in this stadium with two minutes to go.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: So you're going to roll with him, right?
• 27:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure there was, I know there was frustration early in the season from Ben Johnson.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then Caleb Williams started turning it on.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: They started winning games.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: He, he had that finish,
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_01: that belief that is real, that Ben Johnson has instilled in this Bears team.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: And, and Caleb Williams play style is a huge part of that belief system.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the question with him.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: Like, can he, can he become more accurate or maybe, maybe that's not the word.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_01: It just, just, Play on timing, play with rhythm within what Ben Johnson wants to do.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_01: If he can get that part of his game,
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: he is a superstar that is going to compete for championships year in and year out.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_01: But who are the quarterbacks that have just acquired that trait?
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I got to think the list is short.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_01: Who comes to mind for you, Jim?
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess it would be.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_00: Brett Favre is always the guy
• 28:38
  SPEAKER_00: that needed coached.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's why when he got drafted, he needed Holmgren.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: He needed that offense.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: But who would have thought he could actually,
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if we could say he ever reigned him in.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to reign him in, but Brett Favre played in a West Coast offense.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_00: That's timing, accuracy.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's all the stuff that he came into the league with the wild highlight,
• 29:02
  SPEAKER_00: run around and do it at the end of the game with the big arm, similar to Caleb.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: But to get him to play the way that Holmgren wanted to and use everybody,
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: I always talk about that when I write about offenses.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: When you see all the guys getting mentioned,
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: all the different players, Man, that is a coordinator's dream.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: The quarterback is operating.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_00: That means you can call any play you want.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how I always thought about Green Bay.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: I thought when Favre first came into the league, it was all sharp.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was Favre, Sterling, Favre, Sterling.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: And as Favre evolved, then it became swap jerseys.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_00: You just put anybody out,
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: receiver,
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: tight end,
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: running back, and they're going to do well because the offense was just clicking.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_00: I guess that's my point.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 29:47
  SPEAKER_01: I think Sterling Sharp, it forced Brett Favre to read the field.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: You know, early in his career, you know, the clip has gone viral many times over.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't know what a nickel defense was, right?
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_01: He's turning to Ty Detmer in the meeting.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: What in the hell are they talking about?
• 30:01
  SPEAKER_01: Nickel this, dime that.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it was real early on,
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: but I think that especially when Sterling Sharp,
• 30:08
  SPEAKER_01: his career ended with a neck injury and you've got Robert Brooks and Anthony Morgan
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_01: and Mark Chimura, Keith Jackson and It's just this collection of weapons.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: He did have to read the field, and Holmgren did have to rate him into an extent.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: And Favre got into this when we did our show a few years back.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: What Mike Holmgren would do was genius.
• 30:31
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like he just shackled Brett Favre and turned him into a handoff machine
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_01: and just completely tried to change who he was.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Not at all.
• 30:39
  SPEAKER_01: Not at all.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: With fundamentals, you wouldn't want to teach anybody else in your quarterback room.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_01: But when he would call a play,
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_01: he just wouldn't give him the option to chuck it 50 yards deep within the play.
• 30:55
  SPEAKER_01: If four receivers are going out on different routes,
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_01: three or four,
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: and he just wanted a first down or he knew we cannot turn the ball over
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: because we have a lead in the fourth quarter, he would not have a goal route.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: Even if it's a clear out, Brett Favre might have been tempted to take that clear out route
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: So Holmgren would just take that out of the play to help Favre help himself.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I don't know what the equivalent would be for Caleb Williams.
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_01: I guess it would be a tendency to bail on a play.
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that got him into trouble at times last season.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: Somehow have the easy completion baked into what you want to do and say,
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_01: okay, if that's not there, you're going to go over here.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if that's the best comparison.
• 31:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's the one that comes to mind, though.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: When I think of just an insane arm talent, how do you balance the arm talent?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_00: Because as a play caller, too,
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: when you have that arm talent,
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: every play is available, which means every play down the field is available.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because you already know, the longer a route develops, it's almost uncoverable for a defense.
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's why you want to take those shots.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: Because the longer a play goes,
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: whenever I watch a game,
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_00: if you don't see a pass rush get to a quarterback right away,
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about you, but I just assume it's getting completed.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, the hardest thing to me to do is cover somebody.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: The rules are just straight against you.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: So the longer and deeper the route is, There's success.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: And we're going to talk about pass interference, too, which needs to change.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: But, right, just make it a 15-yard penalty and end it.
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's too game-changing because that's what I'm saying.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_00: As a play caller, you want to throw down the field because two good things are going to happen.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: You make the catch or get the call.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: And if the worst thing,
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: hopefully,
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: you don't get the pick, and hopefully the worst thing is just an incompletion.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_00: But I guess I'm saying,
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: when you have a talented quarterback as a caller,
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_00: you have to,
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_00: to your point,
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: You have to discipline yourself as a play caller,
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_00: too, to get him to make sure he is disciplined.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: Take it out of his instinct, to your point.
• 33:13
  SPEAKER_01: Did you hear what Pat Bryant said with a reporter?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think it was something local out there in Denver, like a midweek interview.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_01: The Denver receiver, that was the call that changed that game.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_01: He admitted that he flopped and was selling...
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_01: The defensive pass interference.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_00: Awful, awful.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: Too game-changing.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_00: Too game-changing.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: I talked about before,
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_00: we talked about,
• 33:41
  SPEAKER_00: but Greg Williams,
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_00: the D coordinator,
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: when I was with the Saints,
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_00: in draft meetings, he always said, I wish I could just coach in college.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: Because I would tell those guys, yeah, he said, just tackle them.
• 33:53
  SPEAKER_00: If you get beat, tackle them.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_00: 15 yards, who cares?
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_00: And he's right.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it changes the game.
• 34:01
  SPEAKER_00: The spot of the foul is too game-changing.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_01: Also, quarterbacks have gotten adept.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_01: Jordan Love does this really well at throwing a ball to draw
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_01: the defensive pass interference, kind of hanging it up there.
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 34:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's not aesthetically pleasing.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's not enjoyable to watch either.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: Agreed, agreed.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: All right, back to the – so, okay, that was Caleb.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, hey, so first pick, I agreed with it.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: I had a – I thought he was first-round worthy.
• 34:34
  SPEAKER_00: Book is still out there.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of good, a lot of hold your breath.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_00: Jaden Daniels.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: So, grizzly injury,
• 34:45
  SPEAKER_01: the last play of the first half,
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_01: which, you know, Dan Quinn, David Blau, they could have kicked a field goal there.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: They went for it, fourth and goal.
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_01: I like the decision.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know I'm good with that all the time.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_01: Jane Daniels was playing really well.
• 34:59
  SPEAKER_01: He was starting to heat up, running, throwing, and then his elbow bends away.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Elbows are not supposed to bend.
• 35:06
  SPEAKER_01: As we record this, Jane Daniels is making the trip to London with Washington.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_01: They play the Colts Sunday morning across the pond.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Interesting.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Dan Quinn said that he'll be a limited participant at practice,
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_01: status up in the air,
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_01: but judging by how it looked at first,
• 35:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, encouraging that you'll likely see him sooner rather than later.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's unfortunate because you've got to get some synergy down with David Blau,
• 35:40
  SPEAKER_01: this new offense, a healthy Terry McLaurin.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_01: Nobody really knew what this would even look like,
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: so they Maybe they dodged the bullet,
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: but what do you make of Jaden Daniels' one and a half games this season and
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: where his career is going?
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_00: So when we look back,
• 36:00
  SPEAKER_00: we spent so much time on this draft class, and I wrote about it for Go Long.
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_00: But when we look back on what I wrote,
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: I agreed with Jaden Daniels being a first-round pick as well.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_00: But what made him special is his legs.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: That's maxing out his talent.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: And I wrote about that.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And where you hold your breath,
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_00: we're going to keep saying the hold your breath moments are he is lean.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I wrote about right watching him play.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: He takes vicious hits because he's fearless, like all the great ones are.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: He's fearless, but you can't be fearless with that body type and.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: The injuries are really the question with him right now.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: When he plays, he plays.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: He is absolutely,
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not saying he's Lamar yet,
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_00: but he has that type of ability where you're going to just drive,
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: you don't want to play him because he's going to break down.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Any defense you call,
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: like we always talk about,
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: the great ones,
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_00: when they can get out of trouble,
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: Josh Allen Lamar,
• 36:56
  SPEAKER_00: when they can beat you with your legs,
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: that is just, it takes you to a whole other level, but you got to stay healthy.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: So to me, it's the same question that we have.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: When you see him play, It looks right.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: He looks every bit as what he should be as a first-round franchise quarterback.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_00: The health is everything, and he's got to run to be effective.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_00: He's never going to be the pick-you-apart pocket passer.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's just not him.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it was a fluke play that he got hurt on.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: Fair, but... Tripping up, reaching back, landing.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Fair.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: Some bodies, though, are injury-prone.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's a thing.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: He's wiry.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: I get it.
• 37:36
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't like he was running for 17 yards and taking on a linebacker and trying
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_01: to get two more yards.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: Go back to Sammy Watkins, a player we bring up often.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_01: Something about his body.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: Granted, a lot of it had to do with the way he was living, and he was so open about that.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 37:54
  SPEAKER_01: Some players just suffer more injuries than other players.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see if Jaden Daniels is in that category,
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_01: and then that's where I think The discouragement comes from.
• 38:04
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like, oh, God.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Not again.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: The play looks good.
• 38:09
  SPEAKER_00: And when he uses McLaurin, they are – man, McLaurin is like we've known.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: So that's lethal.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, in that first half, I think you saw a little bit of everything.
• 38:21
  SPEAKER_01: He had 69 rushing yards, Jane Daniels did, in the first half alone.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: 96 passing.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: They're right there trying to tie Dallas –
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think we might differ.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_01: I like them.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: With or without Daniels, I like them against Indianapolis this week.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'm saying it's a London game.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm going to let that one go.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_00: To your point.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: But then they've got the Giants.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know what?
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_01: You can play this game a lot,
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: but after beating the defending champs,
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: they got Indy, they got the Giants, then you've got San Francisco at San Francisco.
• 38:54
  SPEAKER_01: Difficult.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: Philly might just be a bad football team.
• 38:57
  SPEAKER_01: They're after that.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_01: Then L.A. Rams...
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_01: Giants, Bengals, Cardinals, Titans, Texans.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_01: What are they?
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_01: Falcons, Minnesota, Jacksonville, Dallas.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's early.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: I'm selling stock in
• 39:13
  SPEAKER_01: Philadelphia, though.
• 39:14
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think Philadelphia is very.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that was ugly.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_00: Ugly.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's been ugly.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's just.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: But wait, let's get back.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_00: So, OK, that.
• 39:26
  SPEAKER_00: But we need once again.
• 39:27
  SPEAKER_00: So their second pick looks good, but we're still holding our breath.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Still need to see consistency on the field, stay healthy.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_00: So who's third quarterback?
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Bo Nix?
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, before we go to Bo Nix,
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: where do you think this does go if you were to predict on Jaden Daniels?
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think he gets right back.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_01: Say we do this podcast at the end of this season.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: What are we thinking?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: I hope it's that he's healthy and they are right on that,
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: you know, one of the fringe playoff teams.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because of him.
• 39:59
  SPEAKER_00: He's a playmaker.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_01: Same.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still bullish on him.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_01: How he works.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Got back to the virtual reality stuff he did at LSU.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_01: Everyone in Washington says he was the first one in the building.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_01: He's got the talent to compliment it.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_01: Kurt Warner would point this out.
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_01: As a rookie, it does look like he's seen everything.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like, what's in front of him?
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: That's always the big question.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_01: Can you see it?
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_01: Similar to Drake May,
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to hold on to some hope because I think this is a quarterback
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_01: who can decipher what you're throwing at him.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_01: Then Kurt Warner said himself, like, you have to wonder, was it fool's gold?
• 40:42
  SPEAKER_00: Like, were they fooling us?
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: We'll find out.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thrilled that it's not a long-term injury because that was a bummer in real time
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: to see that.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think Tom Brady even dropped a shit on live TV, which is fun.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_01: All right, Bo Nix, your boy, Bo Nix, Mr. Fourth Quarter.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: We had him pegged in this draft as well as a third.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_00: He was the third quarterback.
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now, he was more, you know, ideally he's a second-round type.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: I had a second-round type grade on him, but third quarterback where you take them.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: Quarterbacks, you have to take them high.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: Coach Payton,
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_00: he hit every checkmark for Sean Payton,
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_00: and I think you see the progression perfectly.
• 41:24
  SPEAKER_00: Now, blown opportunity last year.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Injury hurts.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: He comes back from the injury, and things aren't – they're battling right now.
• 41:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's not synced up, but they have Waddle.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: You see the good.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: They're finding ways.
• 41:36
  SPEAKER_00: You see Waddle coming.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_00: You see the use of him.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: But they are a work in progress on offense.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_00: But what's great about that Denver team right now is they have that defense
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: to keep them right in every game.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_00: And Bo Nix figures it out, and you steal one like they just stole.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: But the point is, I think Sean Payton, everything he wanted in Bo Nix is what he got.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think he's ever going to be that.
• 41:58
  SPEAKER_00: He's not overly gifted, talented, but he is talented.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_00: He's above average in everything.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_00: He's above average arm, above average athlete.
• 42:06
  SPEAKER_00: He does move around well.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: He is accurate enough.
• 42:08
  SPEAKER_00: He does have touch.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_00: He does everything well.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I loved about him in college.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_00: You see everything.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's just keep playing and keep growing.
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we want everything.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: We snap our fingers.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: We want guys now, now, now.
• 42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Man, Bo Nix, thumbs up.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_00: They got to be thrilled with the way he's played.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_00: And he's only going to get better to me once they get more comfortable.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I will say this.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know where this is going with Sean Payton calling plays.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_00: We're talking more about Denver right now because with Bo Nix, he isn't.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sean Payton's not calling the plays now for Bo Nix.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_00: So this is all a work in progress.
• 42:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sean Payton looks uncomfortable.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: Why do you think he did that?
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: I have no idea.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like it.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't like it.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because usually it's when a head coach.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_01: I should ask him.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: Ask him what happened.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_01: Usually when an offensive-minded head coach relinquishes play calling duties,
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: it's like the first step toward firing yourself.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: Or you're forced to do it, right?
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_01: The GM or the owner,
• 43:23
  SPEAKER_01: whoever's in charge,
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_01: says you can keep your job, but you're not calling plays anymore.
• 43:28
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it can make sense.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: To have the CEO-like approach where,
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: for example,
• 43:35
  SPEAKER_01: if you've got a situation like Green Bay had last year,
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_01: your coordinator's playing one certain way on defense,
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_01: yet your play calling doesn't complement that,
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_01: you're able to take that step back and be like,
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_01: hey, we've got to rethink the way we're doing things.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we're all on the same page here.
• 43:51
  SPEAKER_01: At the same time,
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_01: these Packer assistants I talked to insist,
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_01: no, Matt LaFleur should be calling plays.
• 43:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's his greatest strength.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I'm with you.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like if that's your strength,
• 44:01
  SPEAKER_01: if that's your calling card and you have a feel for offense, right?
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_01: Go down with the ship.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_01: Just keep doing your thing.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_01: But it's not like Denver was, they didn't hit the iceberg.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_01: They were a Bo Nix injury away from being in the Super Bowl.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 44:17
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't get it.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's different.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_00: It's different.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: But what do you think?
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_00: Do you like Bo Nix when you watch him?
• 44:24
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, do you see what I said when I say that, why I like him?
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_00: Or do you?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because a lot of people,
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: people I listen to,
• 44:29
  SPEAKER_00: like Shady, some guys I listen to, McCoy, they're hard on Bo Nix.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_01: If you're going to just look at box scores,
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_01: 17 of 34, 186 yards, 5.5 yards per attempt, two touchdowns, one pick, 73.9 rating.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he ran for a touchdown, but he only ran for seven yards.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_01: You could go the Shady route and Say, ah, there's nothing special.
• 44:55
  SPEAKER_01: But when you actually, that's why it's so important to watch the games, you know?
• 45:00
  SPEAKER_01: And go beyond, this was a primetime game.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_01: I wish people would pay more.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_01: Really watch a game start to finish.
• 45:06
  SPEAKER_01: Because with Bo Nix, what I love, everything can be going wrong for him and the offense.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: And think about that Giants game, that comeback.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_01: All of their comebacks last year.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: Everything can be going wrong.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yet the defense keeps it close.
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_01: And when he's got to make plays, he makes those plays.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_01: Some quarterbacks can do that.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Some teams have that characteristic to them.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: Some do not.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_01: Some fold, right?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_01: Some expect the next thing to go wrong and the next and the next and the next.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's some mental fortitude to Bo Nix that I think is going to make him built to last.
• 45:44
  SPEAKER_01: Look, we were just talking about Drake May.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_01: One thing goes wrong for him this year.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: And it leads to another and another and another.
• 45:50
  SPEAKER_01: Now he's fighting like hell, trying to get that confidence back.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's a problem for him.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: Bo Nix seems to be able to just take that deep breath.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_01: Probably a lot of it's coaching too.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_01: And Sean Payton, he's been there, been through everything with Drew Brees.
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_01: And they gave him Jalen Waddell.
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm still with you on Denver winning the AFC West.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: I know the Chiefs are the Chiefs and they're getting the headlines right now and they...
• 46:13
  SPEAKER_01: Wallop Denver at Arrowhead.
• 46:15
  SPEAKER_01: Kenneth Walker.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_01: Did you see the play where Kenneth Walker,
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_01: somebody tried to punch the ball free from him,
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_01: and he literally blocked the punch while he was running with his other hand.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: It was crazy.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe it's stubbornness, but I'm going to stick with Denver in that division.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: I like it.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: I'm glad you say it.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_00: I see nothing to think that they look how they should look.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they're just going to get better on offense, I think.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think Nix is a hit.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's a hit pick to me.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: All these are hit picks, I think.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, to me, you're happy if you drafted these guys where you drafted.
• 46:53
  SPEAKER_01: J.J. McCarthy, they're thrilled.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, is he next?
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_00: Who's next?
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: All right, Mr. Nine.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I actually did have him next as well.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_00: Had more of a third-round grade on him.
• 47:09
  SPEAKER_00: He just looked developmental.
• 47:11
  SPEAKER_00: You saw the athleticism.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_00: You saw the arm.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_00: He just looked developmental.
• 47:17
  SPEAKER_00: That being said, the concerns people have with him, you could see it.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: He never was asked to be that put you on your shoulders and just pick you apart,
• 47:32
  SPEAKER_00: where you could watch Caleb in college and Daniels and even Bo Nix.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: Where they have these games,
• 47:37
  SPEAKER_00: you're like,
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: oh my, like just, you know, big time college football video type stat games.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: McCarthy was always kind of the,
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: you just saw the good and then maybe you think to yourself,
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: hey, I can get more out of him, blah, blah, blah.
• 47:51
  SPEAKER_00: But you saw the good.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately for McCarthy, he got rushed into it.
• 47:57
  SPEAKER_00: He got drafted where he got drafted.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_00: That means it's time to get on the field.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: And the results are this.
• 48:04
  SPEAKER_00: He does not process things fast enough.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_00: Everything in his game is too slow.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_00: If he can speed it up, maybe he gets back, becomes a starter again.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_01: So golongtd.com, you can check it out.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: Part one of the Tyler Murray Project series is really about the Arizona Cardinals
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: and that world with Michael Bidwell that Kyler was in and Marvin Harrison Jr.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: People around the NFL knowing that this guy just didn't have that dog in him,
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: that fight.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_01: And his father's the reason for that, kind of beating him down confidence-wise in college.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then a major part of that story is the J.J.
• 48:47
  SPEAKER_00: McCarthy miscalculation.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: You're right on everything being slow.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_01: I think that is what stood out to some players.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_01: They noticed it early.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: So when he became the starter and they're in OTAs,
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: So it was really early, Jim,
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_01: where there were players on that Vikings roster saying to themselves,
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_01: yikes, when J.J. McCarthy was the starting quarterback.
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_01: OTAs, seven on sevens, pop a shot for quarterbacks, right?
• 49:19
  SPEAKER_01: Everything should just be easy.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_01: He was waiting until his seventh read to throw the ball.
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_01: You know, he'd work one to five, go all the way back to two.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_01: And as one starter...
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_01: Told me in the story that you can check out Kyler Murray project quote.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_01: And when training camp started, I was like, Oh yeah, this isn't going to work this year.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: And that this is all with a defense that was feeling damn good about themselves
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_01: the year prior, those last five, six weeks, they were really peaking.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_01: It was a miscalculation all the way around.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_01: You can, you can see why they took the chance.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, they,
• 49:57
  SPEAKER_01: They kind of backed themselves into a corner,
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_01: similar to the way Buddy Nix did in 2013,
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_01: declaring to the world we need to draft a quarterback.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_01: Granted, major difference.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_01: That class was very weak at the quarterback position.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_01: This one, it seemed to be very strong.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_01: But still, where Minnesota was picking at 10, you're going to get kind of whoever trickles down.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_01: They tried to trade up for Drake May.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't work.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_01: Kevin O'Connell even made a joke.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_01: About that,
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_01: it was a faith and leadership speech at St.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_01: Philip the Deacon Lutheran Church in Plymouth, Minnesota.
• 50:30
  SPEAKER_01: A fan asked the coach if he's working his old Patriots connections
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: to trade-ups number three,
• 50:34
  SPEAKER_01: and he joked that he sent a bouquet of flowers to Robert Kraft.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_01: Kraft, Elliott Wolfe, they did not budge.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: They took May.
• 50:41
  SPEAKER_01: The Vikings take McCarthy at 10.
• 50:44
  SPEAKER_01: Look, he was 27-1 as a starter, won a championship, 6-2-1.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_01: Six, two, two and a half, 219.
• 50:52
  SPEAKER_01: At the combine, I forgot about this.
• 50:54
  SPEAKER_01: He recorded a throw of 61 miles an hour.
• 50:58
  SPEAKER_01: The record, it was 62.
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_01: Josh Allen and Joe Milton, who's basically Happy Gilmore in the NFL.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: He said that he once threw a football 78 yards with the wind.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_01: His three-cone drill time of 6.82 seconds was the best in five years at the combine.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_01: And then all the intangibles.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_01: He had Jim Harbaugh.
• 51:19
  SPEAKER_01: Here's Jim Harbaugh again.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: Said earlier this week he's declaring Justin Herbert the greatest quarterback ever
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_01: when it's all said and done.
• 51:27
  SPEAKER_01: He went above and beyond,
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_01: waxing poetic about all things J.J. McCarthy to anyone who would listen.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_01: The Vikings took him.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: They believed they could piece this all together.
• 51:38
  SPEAKER_01: And finally,
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_01: once and for all,
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_01: the Minnesota Vikings would draft a quarterback, develop a quarterback.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the context matters there too.
• 51:46
  SPEAKER_01: The Vikings for ages, it was recycling veterans and trading for Sam Bradford, Brett Favre.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_01: They went through the whole gamut,
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_01: paid for Kirk Cousins,
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_01: and they just wanted to once and for all draft one of their own,
• 52:01
  SPEAKER_01: develop one of their own like the Green Bay Packers have done the last 30 years.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_01: It just never worked out.
• 52:07
  SPEAKER_01: And there's many reasons for it.
• 52:09
  SPEAKER_01: A lot of it is.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_01: And again, subscribe.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's all in the story.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_01: There is something to the whole quote-unquote nine meme when he went on and on at
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_01: the press conference about how he kind of taps into this alter ego.
• 52:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think that there were some people in the locker room like, come on, man.
• 52:26
  SPEAKER_01: Let's just pipe down.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_01: There's some immaturity there.
• 52:29
  SPEAKER_01: He was told not to do the gritty if he crosses the end zone against Dallas.
• 52:34
  SPEAKER_01: They worked on that play.
• 52:36
  SPEAKER_01: He said, just get it across.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: Just score the touchdown.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_01: What did he do?
• 52:39
  SPEAKER_01: He did the gritty.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's a really weird instance in that Packers finale.
• 52:45
  SPEAKER_01: He tried to fight through an injury.
• 52:47
  SPEAKER_01: To his credit, he did.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_01: Eventually took himself out and put a towel over his hand, even though it wasn't gushing blood.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: There was really no reason to do it.
• 52:56
  SPEAKER_01: Some players thought that was a little odd.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_01: But more than anything,
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: I think where things kind of went south for J.J.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_01: McCarthy, it was in his meetings with Kevin O'Connell.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_01: See if I can find it here.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_01: When Kevin O'Connell would make coaching points, McCarthy would, he'd push back too often.
• 53:17
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why don't we do it this way?
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_01: Why don't we do it that way?
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_01: Which would be kind of acceptable if you're a veteran and you've got a full library
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_01: of reps to your name and you can kind of tap into that wisdom.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_01: Not exactly when you're a novice,
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_01: when you're J.J. McCarthy and you barely threw the ball in college.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_01: We've talked about it a million times, right?
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_01: They're throwing the ball 18 times in the championship game.
• 53:38
  SPEAKER_01: They leaned on the run.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot for him to learn.
• 53:42
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, you've got a coach in Kevin O'Connell who was with Stafford, Cousins, Darnold.
• 53:47
  SPEAKER_01: Quote, you don't really have that latitude, one teammate says.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: Just execute as good as you can.
• 53:53
  SPEAKER_01: Because Darnold,
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: yeah, he would occasionally ask for a different route on the backside of a play.
• 53:57
  SPEAKER_00: He'd have some back and forth with O'Connell, but he was more diplomatic about it.
• 54:01
  SPEAKER_01: McCarthy really wasn't.
• 54:03
  SPEAKER_01: So he's traded.
• 54:06
  SPEAKER_01: To the desperate New York Giants who are trying to give players
• 54:08
  SPEAKER_01: in their locker room any sign of hope, I suppose.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_01: I don't see this ending well for J.J. McCarthy.
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know,
• 54:14
  SPEAKER_01: in the same story,
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: Matt Hasselbeck traced it back to his own career and how he was knocked to the can.
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: I almost forgot about this.
• 54:23
  SPEAKER_01: You know, Mike Holmgren and the Seattle Seahawks, they made the move.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: They traded for Matt Hasselbeck.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_01: Holmgren had him in Green Bay.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_01: He saw what he did.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_01: He called him Mr. August in the preseason.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: He was so good.
• 54:34
  SPEAKER_01: So they trade for him.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_01: And he's the starter and he struggles badly.
• 54:39
  SPEAKER_01: Trent Dilfer takes over.
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_01: Trent Dilfer wins games off of his Super Bowl with Baltimore.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_01: And then Trent Dilfer gets a contract and basically tells Matt Hasselbeck, hang in there.
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_01: Keep learning from me.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_01: I'll show you a thing or two.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: Dilfer gets hurt.
• 54:55
  SPEAKER_01: Then Hasselbeck comes in.
• 54:56
  SPEAKER_01: Hasselbeck's ready and plays 18 years in the NFL,
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_01: multiple Pro Bowls, takes the team to the Super Bowl.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: So his point being like, just, Show some humility, right?
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_01: Take this as an opportunity to learn, to grow.
• 55:10
  SPEAKER_01: Learn from somebody.
• 55:12
  SPEAKER_01: Don't know what you're going to learn from Jameis Winston in New York, but talk to your coaches.
• 55:16
  SPEAKER_01: Work on what you have to work on.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: I don't see this working out for J.J. McCarthy.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_01: I think he is not going to resurface as a starting quarterback or at least a successful one.
• 55:28
  SPEAKER_01: But what do you think, Jim?
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_00: I still think there's ability, but he has to have somebody that wants to work with him.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: To your point,
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: this is,
• 55:36
  SPEAKER_00: he's an officially,
• 55:38
  SPEAKER_00: I call it when you start floating in the NFL,
• 55:40
  SPEAKER_00: it's a scary feeling because there's your coach who is supposedly O'Connell,
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: who's this supposedly quote unquote, the quarterback whisper guy.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: So you're feeling pretty good when he drafts you,
• 55:52
  SPEAKER_00: you're feeling pretty good that you actually were six and four as
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: a starting quarterback in the NFL.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: Now I don't believe in that as a stat for quarterbacks.
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: But it's a good thing to at least gauge he wasn't a complete flop.
• 56:05
  SPEAKER_00: So there's something there to work with.
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: There is physical skill set, but man, it takes so much more.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: To your point,
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: if you're not a natural leader,
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_00: a natural,
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: you know,
• 56:15
  SPEAKER_00: your instincts, learning playbooks, and it's got to be, you got to be all in.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: You can't be going back and forth with a coach.
• 56:23
  SPEAKER_00: So to your point, he's in scary territory.
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: He's in float territory.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_00: Right, heading right to backup Island.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: Quarterback, backup, quarterback.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, he's heading.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_01: We have a room.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_01: We have a room for him.
• 56:38
  SPEAKER_01: He's on the raft, floating his way.
• 56:39
  SPEAKER_01: The Joe Flacco wing.
• 56:42
  SPEAKER_00: We have a nice room for him in the wing.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_00: All right, who was next after JJ?
• 56:49
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I mean, I think we're both saying the same thing.
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_00: He's on shaky.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_00: Look, he just wasn't good.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, no.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_00: Obvious.
• 56:59
  SPEAKER_00: When you have Jefferson and he is biting his lip every day, it tells you.
• 57:05
  SPEAKER_01: You've got a defense ready to win a championship right now.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_01: They don't want to wait around for J.J.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: McCarthy to mature, for J.J. McCarthy to learn how to play quarterback.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_01: You know, they let the quarterback competition string out way longer than they should have.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was fair to say in the moment.
• 57:22
  SPEAKER_01: Kyla Murray at one point spoke up like, I need the reps during midi games.
• 57:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, guess what?
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_01: And so not only did Kyler Murray need the reps,
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: Carson Wentz could have used those number two reps.
• 57:30
  SPEAKER_01: He's buried on the depth chart, number three, just getting scraps.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, if anything, they did J.J. McCarthy multiple favors.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_01: To give him one last chance to blow them away in practice, he did not.
• 57:49
  SPEAKER_01: And now they're sending him to the New York Giants where he'll be the starter there.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_01: I can't see Jameis Winston all of a sudden.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_01: Turning into a star.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one thing is for sure though, Murray was correct.
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_00: He needed the reps because do not watch the Vikings on offense right now with him.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: It is ugly.
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_00: So we need, he needs reps, but let's wait and see.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was,
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: you know,
• 58:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think that Kevin O'Connell,
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_01: he was trying to, Appease J.J. McCarthy, be nice to him.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_01: Even to the end with that press conference,
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_01: it was over-the-top generous,
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_01: over-the-top nice,
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_01: and just almost melodramatic and really going out of his way to say how amazing J.J.
• 58:38
  SPEAKER_01: McCarthy is as a human, as a player, and this is going to be good for him.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_01: It's a cutthroat business, man.
• 58:44
  SPEAKER_01: It just is, and he wasn't good enough.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody could see it.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_01: You can't lie to your locker room.
• 58:50
  SPEAKER_01: He had to go, so he's gone.
• 58:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, we'll see what happens.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_01: The offense doesn't need to be a top five offense.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe top 10, top 12.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think they'll get there.
• 59:03
  SPEAKER_00: They're 3-0.
• 59:08
  SPEAKER_01: Michael Penix is back after yet another knee surgery.
• 59:13
  SPEAKER_01: He's had many.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_01: It started rough at Lambeau Field.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_01: He threw an interception.
• 59:19
  SPEAKER_01: Then they get B. John Robinson going, and the Southpaw can sling it.
• 59:24
  SPEAKER_01: He's got Drake London.
• 59:26
  SPEAKER_01: Michael Pettix, baby.
• 59:29
  SPEAKER_01: He's back.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 59:32
  SPEAKER_00: He is what I thought he would be.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: He's a player.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: I thought he would be a backup.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't see him as starter, third-round type guy.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_00: He is fastball only, to your point.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: I said he's Wild Thing, the old movie, Wild Thing.
• 59:50
  SPEAKER_00: Bring him out of the bullpen, throw heat, but that's not what you want in your starter.
• 59:53
  SPEAKER_00: You need more...
• 59:55
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about consistency in everything,
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: accuracy,
• 59:59
  SPEAKER_00: but it also means being on the field and being healthy and being there all the time.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: And Pennix has never been healthy.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that whole thing, we can get into where he was drafted.
• 1:00:10
  SPEAKER_00: That blew everybody away based on skill set,
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: didn't say first round, and health, didn't say first round.
• 1:00:18
  SPEAKER_00: So that never made sense where he was drafted, to be honest.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: His grit and toughness show you why, and he's fearless.
• 1:00:26
  SPEAKER_00: He has success.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: He's not afraid.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's some Jameis Winston in him where he's going to let it rip,
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: some fearless, but you're not going to win with that.
• 1:00:37
  SPEAKER_00: Can you rank the NFC South quarterbacks for us?
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_00: So we have – so it's Shuck right now.
• 1:00:49
  SPEAKER_00: Give me the teams quick.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry.
• 1:00:51
  SPEAKER_01: I'm losing my – it's – The four quarterbacks would be Shuck, Mayfield, Bryce Young, Penix.
• 1:00:58
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know Mayfield's her, but how would you write these?
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_00: No, it'd be Shuck, Young, Mayfield, Penix.
• 1:01:07
  SPEAKER_01: You'd go Penix last out of that curve.
• 1:01:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I don't see him being the...
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_00: Mayfield,
• 1:01:13
  SPEAKER_00: we're having a... Look, Mayfield recently, it's hard to even put him in anything.
• 1:01:17
  SPEAKER_00: He looks...
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's as bad as it gets, but Mayfield is a good...
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: He's a good starting quarterback in the NFL,
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_00: but he needs everything around him to be successful.
• 1:01:30
  SPEAKER_00: Where Shuck is showing,
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_00: he's a playmaker,
• 1:01:33
  SPEAKER_00: and Bryce Young is similar to Mayfield to me,
• 1:01:35
  SPEAKER_00: where he's going to need the whole,
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_00: he's going to need everything around him,
• 1:01:39
  SPEAKER_00: and he maybe could be good, but he's limited too.
• 1:01:44
  SPEAKER_00: To me, Shuck looks like a starter.
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_00: The other guys, to me, look like fringe starters.
• 1:01:54
  SPEAKER_01: Somewhere,
• 1:01:55
  SPEAKER_01: Mel Kiper is still unhappy that New Orleans took Tyler Shuck ahead
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: of Shador Sanders.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: He looks great.
• 1:02:03
  SPEAKER_01: Man, he looks good.
• 1:02:04
  SPEAKER_00: I write about it every week for Go Long.
• 1:02:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's awesome.
• 1:02:08
  SPEAKER_00: He and Alave, watch the Saints if you get a chance.
• 1:02:11
  SPEAKER_00: They are fun to watch.
• 1:02:13
  SPEAKER_00: Now, they lost Etienne, right?
• 1:02:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think they lost the running back, Etienne.
• 1:02:19
  SPEAKER_00: Etienne.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_00: We're supposed to call him HN.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, HN.
• 1:02:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good call.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's on me, HN.
• 1:02:27
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so anyway, but still, wow, what a good pick.
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: And head coach,
• 1:02:31
  SPEAKER_00: Kellen Moore, we're seeing when somebody believes in a quarterback, the development.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_00: You saw the success last year.
• 1:02:39
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't fake because you see them building on it.
• 1:02:43
  SPEAKER_00: We talked about the Saints in the offseason as an intriguing team.
• 1:02:47
  SPEAKER_00: They're ahead of probably what I thought.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_00: They have too many good veterans.
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: They have too many good vets on that team.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_00: They want one more shot at the playoffs at one more run.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: We don't really have time to go in depth this episode.
• 1:03:07
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe we get to it next week if they win again.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: They did lose to the Las Vegas Raiders.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to give it a week before making declarative statements about this team.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: 3-0.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_01: 3-0 teams.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: Bills, Chiefs, Raiders.
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_00: Whoa.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_00: That's such a whoa.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_00: Well, let's just, if you want to, my take on the Raiders is just to get it out there.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_00: But you whip.
• 1:03:34
  SPEAKER_00: Gentee is just a two yards plug away, tough running back.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's consistently 2.5, three yards a carry.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's a top 10 pick.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_00: Whiff.
• 1:03:45
  SPEAKER_00: Then.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_00: You follow that up with the first pick of the draft, Mendoza.
• 1:03:48
  SPEAKER_00: He's on the bench.
• 1:03:51
  SPEAKER_00: That's a whiff.
• 1:03:52
  SPEAKER_00: You didn't take him first to sit on the bench.
• 1:03:55
  SPEAKER_00: You were hoping he'd be ready, and he wasn't.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: Good job by you as the Raiders,
• 1:04:00
  SPEAKER_00: as in John Spitek, the GM, Tom Brady, who's truly probably the GM.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_00: And you get Kirk Cousins, a vet, quarterback, beautiful backup, professional backup, 3-0.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: 3-0.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_00: You can't make it up.
• 1:04:15
  SPEAKER_00: You don't know how.
• 1:04:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I will tell you the one thing that I've noticed watching them and we've talked
• 1:04:20
  SPEAKER_00: about before is Brock Bowers is a game changer.
• 1:04:25
  SPEAKER_00: He's Chase.
• 1:04:26
  SPEAKER_00: He's, you know, for the Bengals, he's that dominant.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like you can't, there's just nothing you can do with him.
• 1:04:32
  SPEAKER_00: There's not a player that can guard him.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_00: Not a position.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: So anyway, the Raiders are fascinating 3-0.
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_00: Why is that?
• 1:04:41
  SPEAKER_00: Because there are very few people that big that can run routes like he can.
• 1:04:46
  SPEAKER_00: You have to watch it.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_00: He runs routes like a polished receiver, but he's probably 255 pounds, 6'4", 6'5".
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_00: But he can actually sink his hips.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_00: Tight ends are usually high-cut, one-cut power.
• 1:05:01
  SPEAKER_00: They use their bodies to uncover.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_00: He can uncover with his body.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_00: And his route running, his route quickness.
• 1:05:09
  SPEAKER_00: Tight ends don't usually have this quickness.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_00: If they are, they're small.
• 1:05:13
  SPEAKER_00: He's just not.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_00: He's a complete.
• 1:05:15
  SPEAKER_00: When they split him out, it's almost a joke.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's literally just back-shouldered every time.
• 1:05:20
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know how you're going to do it.
• 1:05:22
  SPEAKER_00: You can put a tall safety on him.
• 1:05:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's your best chance.
• 1:05:27
  SPEAKER_00: But he is that.
• 1:05:28
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I like about the Raiders, too?
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: No, that was it.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_01: That was it.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_00: Go ahead.
• 1:05:35
  SPEAKER_01: They made the Tyler Linderbaum move, paid him a lot of money, overpaid for him.
• 1:05:39
  SPEAKER_01: You kind of had to do that when you were a bad team.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_01: And it was a weird situation where the Ravens weren't going to slap the tag on him
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_01: because all those salaries are lumped together.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_01: Anyways, that's huge.
• 1:05:53
  SPEAKER_01: He's going to be able to set the protections.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_01: Great in the run game, great in the pass game.
• 1:05:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's still money well spent.
• 1:05:59
  SPEAKER_01: But they signed a bunch of guys.
• 1:06:01
  SPEAKER_01: They really did.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you look at their roster – I know that Green Bay,
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_01: they didn't necessarily want to lose Quay Walker,
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: and you can kind of see a difference.
• 1:06:13
  SPEAKER_01: I love the Zaire Franklin move as much as anybody,
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_01: but right now Quay Walker seems like the superior linebacker there.
• 1:06:21
  SPEAKER_01: Him, N'Kobe Dean,
• 1:06:24
  SPEAKER_01: Jalen Naylor,
• 1:06:25
  SPEAKER_01: they got him at receiver,
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: spitball in here,
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_01: but I feel like they had a lot of money to spend,
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_01: and they went out and they used the money,
• 1:06:32
  SPEAKER_01: and it's just You're kind of seeing it in Green Bay.
• 1:06:34
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_01: Green Bay lost a ton of role players to the point where you're starting to kind
• 1:06:41
  SPEAKER_01: of see the effect of that, right?
• 1:06:43
  SPEAKER_01: When you add up Elton Jenkins and Romeo Dobbs and Quay Walker,
• 1:06:48
  SPEAKER_01: Dontavian Wicks, you know, it's in a vacuum.
• 1:06:53
  SPEAKER_01: One of those losses might not seem necessarily bad,
• 1:06:57
  SPEAKER_01: but then you're losing 35-14 to the Atlanta Falcons where
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_01: the Raiders are Quidi Paye, another guy, an edge rusher from Indianapolis.
• 1:07:08
  SPEAKER_01: They signed a lot of dudes who are tough players, right?
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_01: Prideful players.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_01: Even Kirk Cousins, a quarterback, prideful.
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_01: No doubt.
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_01: They're not going into this season expecting to lose.
• 1:07:19
  SPEAKER_00: When you sign, well, quickly.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_01: All right, our good friend.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_01: Mr. Jim Moniz had a few technical difficulties there right at the tail end
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_01: of this week's episode of Real Football.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_01: But you know what?
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_01: It works out pretty damn good because we'll definitely get back
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_01: to those Las Vegas Raiders in future weeks and try to make sense to this team
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_01: that I think most thought would be pretty damn bad.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_01: And they're 3-0.
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_01: So let's see where the season goes.
• 1:07:49
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much,
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: everybody,
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_01: for watching,
• 1:07:52
  SPEAKER_01: listening, sharing this episode of Real Football and making us your home.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_01: For real, raw, long-form, pro football journalism.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_01: We greatly appreciate it.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_01: And make sure you subscribe to golongtd.com to get all feature stories,
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_01: player profiles, deep dives.
• 1:08:11
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• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_01: So be sure to keep a lookout for that.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Tyler Dunne.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for all your support.
• 1:08:20
  Wow, wow.