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The Weight We Carry Breaking the Silence on Police Suicide · Heroes Behind the Badge

0:00
Dennis Collins: I came across something that really hit me this
0:02
morning and I thought it might be kind of a good frame for this episode.
0:08
This is a special episode of Heroes Behind the Badge, and here's the
0:13
story that I came across this morning that kind of got to me.
0:17
It's 2:00 AM a patrol car rolls quietly through the dark city streets.
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The officer answers a dispatch for what should be the last call of
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his shift, a routine end to another routine night serving the community.
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And you know that community may never, ever know his or her name.
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He jokes with a coworker, files his last report.
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He grabs his coffee, he masks the exhaustion and the pain behind
0:50
a practiced smile to his team.
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He seems steady, maybe even invincible, but when the locker closes and the
1:00
badge comes off, the weight of unspoken burdens finally settles in by sunrise.
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Another family is changed forever, blindsided by a tragedy that no
1:13
one saw coming, and the thin blue line grows thinner and thinner in
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a way the headlines rarely mention.
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Every year, this scenario is heartbreakingly real for more law
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enforcement families than those touched by the line-of-duty deaths.
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That
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struck me, guys.
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That struck me — and today is a special episode of Heroes Behind the Badge.
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We have not one, but two subject matter expert guests.
1:59
I know usually here we talk about the badge, we talk about the
2:02
uniform, we talk about our heroes.
2:05
But you know what?
2:06
We never forget our heroes.
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But now imagine those silent battles.
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Are happening right now behind closed doors.
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The sirens are off.
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The station grows quiet every single year.
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Believe this or not, I found it hard to believe I did the homework on this.
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More law enforcement officers die by suicide than from every other
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line-of-duty incident combined.
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Gunfire, car crashes, assaults.
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This isn't just a number, guys.
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It's a cascade.
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A cascade of heartbreak for families, partners blindsided, entire departments
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grieving a loss they never saw coming.
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Yeah, this is a hard topic to talk about.
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In fact, sometimes, you know, I've never been a sworn law enforcement
2:53
officer, but I have been around law enforcement my whole life.
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I have a daughter who is a lieutenant in law enforcement and, I know
3:02
this is a hard topic to talk about.
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In fact, it's been a taboo topic.
3:07
A taboo topic for many, many years.
3:09
But you know what?
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It can't be a taboo topic anymore.
3:13
Okay?
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184 officers take their lives on average every year, which is more
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than all the officers call the, killed in line-of-duty fatalities.
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So, uh, not to, I, I, I want to set the tone and the reason we're doing
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this show, one of the key core beliefs.
3:33
Of Citizens Behind the Badge that sponsors this podcast is that we have to
3:39
stop being silent about something that needs to be talked about in the open.
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And we have made a decision as a board to put this issue forefront,
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to put it front and center.
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And today we are blessed with two subject matter experts on these topics today.
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Two guests instead of one.
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We haven't done that before.
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Uh, one new guest and one returning guest.
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Uh, our new guest is Dave Howe.
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He's a retired army lieutenant Colonel today.
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He's representing the comfort, peace and Freedom Foundation supporting
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America's heroes and beside.
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Dave Howe, we have our own David Berez.
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David is a returning guest, a valued member of our law enforcement advisory
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council for Citizens Behind the Badge.
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He is the author of the book, A Resilient Life, A Cops
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Journey, and Pursuit of Purpose.
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Uh, we talked about David.
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We had David as a guest months ago.
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If you haven't got the book yet.
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Get it.
4:49
Okay.
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I got multiple copies.
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I passed them to all my law enforcement friends here in the Florida area.
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It is a great read.
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It is a must read for the times that we're in right now.
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It is a must read.
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David also is a frequent op-ed contributor to our Citizens Behind
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the Badge, uh, blogs and posts.
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Uh, I am delighted to have the David's.
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Here today.
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and there, uh, David, of course, David Berez is a subject matter
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expert in positive psychology.
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Uh, I don't wanna take any of their thunder because they are the experts
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and we're just gonna be asking, hopefully some intelligent questions.
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But, let me start with Dave Howe.
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I mean, we had a great discussion off, uh, line yesterday, Dave, and
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I ask you point blank, I think, why do we need to talk about this?
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This is not a comfortable subject.
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It's not a subject that maybe we'd like to be talking about, but why the hell do
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we need to be talking about this, Dave?
5:53
Dave Howe: your description of that horrible night and how that impacted
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the family, is, is certainly a great place to start the conversation
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and to answer your question.
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Clearly, uh, the program that I'm going to, uh, introduce, and by the way, thank
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you for giving me this opportunity to present this new tool that's available
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to the law enforcement community to not just address the suicide issue
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that you described in the opening, but it's actually something that all
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people, not just in law enforcement can benefit from, and that is to create a
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written plan, to have a joyful life.
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And so.
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That kind of program, that is a new tool to put in our toolbox to help deal with
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the stresses of the job, which then is a contributing factor to the suicide, sure.
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Uh, crisis that's facing law enforcement today.
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And it, unfortunately, it's getting worse.
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So this is a great, forum to share, a way to help bend that horrible statistic
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into a favorable, uh, direction.
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Dennis Collins: Absolutely.
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David Berez.
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I know, you are, the book documents how you feel about this whole topic.
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You documented it well on our podcast.
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I think I got the number right.
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Law enforcement, officers are 54% more likely to commit suicide
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than the average population.
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Did I get that right?
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David Berez: That is absolutely correct, and I think when we have
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these conversations, it's really important to set the stage and set the
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tone for, why this is so important.
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And so, yes, you hit on a lot of those numbers already.
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In, you're in, you're opening your intro.
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And again, thank you for having me back.
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Thank you for letting me be part of this community, uh, the community
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that you guys have built, uh, for.
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Bringing, light on the issues in law enforcement, specifically, this one
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that means so much to me, uh, of, uh, self-harm and self-destructive
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behaviors and ultimately suicide.
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So I'm grateful to share that platform with you.
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But yeah, three times, 3.8 times more likely to die by suicide
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than killed in the line-of-duty.
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You mentioned that.
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Wow, 54% more likely to die by suicide than the general public.
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These numbers are are staggering.
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Uh, one thing that's been interesting too, actually two points have been
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interesting for me of recent is police.
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O the average person lives in about 85 years, is what the statistics say.
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30 years beyond the age of 50 is actually have the scientists break that down.
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Police officers are 7.8 years expected lifespan beyond the age of 50.
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Huh?
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So those of us here have surpassed those odds, which is awesome.
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I'm not quite there yet.
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Uh, I've got seven.
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Well, we're trying, I've got 7.2 years to go according to those numbers.
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But the, um, but yeah, it, it's, incredible to think the amount of stress
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that this job puts on our bodies and our minds, that these are the numbers.
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With programs like that, that Dave is gonna be talking about and programs
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that I've been involved with and, and I have on my own, there is mitigating
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factors that can extend that lifespan, that can take us out of that rut,
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that can do all of these things.
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So yeah, let's, push these ideas forward.
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Dennis Collins: Absolutely.
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I know, uh, the Daves have had a chance to talk, uh, before this podcast, right?
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The two of you.
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And, uh, I'd love to hear, and I, I know, uh, my colleagues Bill Erfurth.
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Morning, sir. And Craig Floyd, our fearless leader, our
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president, of Citizens Behind the Badge, founder and president.
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I know they're gonna have a lot of questions.
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I would love to hear myself what you guys talked about when you spoke
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and what the synergies are that you see between what Dave Howe is
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doing and what Dave Berez is doing.
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Okay, let me, uh, let me throw it to our, our fearless leader, Craig Floyd
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and, uh, uh, guide us from here, sir.
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Craig Floyd: Well, my first question really is, uh, to David Berez, and that
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is, 40 years ago, uh, when I started the National Law Enforcement Officers
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Memorial Fund, the only discussion anybody was having regarding police
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suicide was our criteria for when a name goes on the National Memorial.
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And it very clearly stated as the Department of Justice had
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already clearly established that.
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Officers who died by suicide would not be eligible, uh, to
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have their names on the memorial.
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Their families would not get death benefits from the federal government as
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those that die in the line-of-duty would.
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Today, it seems like every organization, everywhere you go, people are
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talking about how we can bolster the mental health of officers.
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and I'm, I'm incredibly proud and pleased that we've been a part of that discussion
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and that we've gotten to this point.
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But I'd like you to just maybe, uh, briefly talk about what it was like when
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you entered your law enforcement career.
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And what it's like today.
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I mean, you're a master resiliency trainer.
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you, you've got all these great ideas about how officers can, uh,
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deal with the stress of the job.
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But you wrote in your book very courageously by the way
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that you had suicidal thoughts, uh, at the end of your career.
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And I'm just, uh, interested in, the evolution, uh, the beginning and what
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it's like today as we deal with the issue of mental health and police suicide.
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David Berez: So I think, so I started in 1999, my career.
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And back then, just like you mentioned, mental health and suicide was not even
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part of the conversation, not in a good or bad way, it just wasn't there at all.
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so the, i, if you were struggling, if you were having a bad day, the
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response was tighten your bootstraps, pull your belt up a little bit, uh,
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straighten up your uniform, keep moving forward, you'll be fine.
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I don't know that we had the right data and the right science
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back then to understand what was actually happening in our brains.
12:00
So in the year 2000, which is the year that I, at, the year after I started
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in policing, Dr. Marty Seligman started the idea of positive psychology.
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So as that science has moved forward in the last 25 years,
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or almost 26 years, the.
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Understanding of how our brains change after its exposure to
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trauma has really been realized.
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And I don't know that we knew that before and we're not talking about that long ago.
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This science is not that old.
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So today, now understanding that, I think we're looking at
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it differently and, and for good reason and with good a good results.
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We've lowered a lot of those rates over the years.
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We're lowering the barriers to getting the support and the help,
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which by the way is much stronger of an issue than stigma itself.
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Stigma used to be the problem.
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Stigma used to be the issue.
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Years ago if you asked for help, they just took your bag and gun and you were gone.
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But now we're not seeing stigma.
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It's still there, but it's not as much of the problem.
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The access to the care is the problem.
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And we're finding ways to, to break down those barriers as well.
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So I, I think now that we're talking about it, now that it's more prominent
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and we have the tools to address it, it's becoming more acceptable
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because we can do something about it.
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And you're not just crazy.
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So you have a medical problem.
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Same thing if you break your leg.
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If you break your leg on the job, we're not throwing you to the wolves
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and telling you to take a hike.
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can't do that with a broken leg anyway.
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But the um.
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If we have a mental problem or an emotional problem as a result
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of the job, it's an injury.
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That's why we've gone from post-traumatic stress disorder
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to post-traumatic stress injury.
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'cause that's exactly what it is.
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And I, at some point, if you want me to, you can get deeper into the neuroscience
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of why we've made that change.
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But the change is legitimate and I think we need to address it as an injury and
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not as a disorder, 'cause it can be fixed.
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Craig Floyd: And Dave Howe.
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Okay, so David Berez is starting his police career, and he's got
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a lot of stress ahead of him.
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Obviously he is dealt with a lot of traumatic events.
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I think the, number is what roughly 400 to 600 traumatic events are experienced
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by a police officer in their career, the average citizen, maybe two or three
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traumatic events in their lifetime.
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So right away we see that the stress of the job is tremendous.
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So Dave Howe, tell me about this life plan that you'd like to see officers engage in.
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What, what are the components and what would you like officers to do
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at the beginning, middle, and end of their careers to better adjust to that
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stress and those traumatic events?
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Dave Howe: Yeah, the, the life planning program is really for everybody.
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It's not just for law enforcement or in my case, uh, I got into this to try and bring
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it to the military community that is also suffering from serious, uh, mental health
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and, and, uh, horrible suicide stats.
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In fact, 22 members of the military community kill themselves every day.
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So that's over 8,000 a year and 200,000 since the War on Terror began.
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So,
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The program was never designed to be a mental health program or to, you know,
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reverse the, terrible trend in suicides.
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That just happens to be another way that the program can be very beneficial.
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So, directly to your question, if you get people on a joyful path through
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life early, well then they're never gonna come to the fork in the road.
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That puts them into danger that David has.
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Uh, so, uh.
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detailed, uh, in his book, for example.
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So, by having a program that focuses on just how are you gonna optimize your
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life, and it's a very simple program in that it starts with, you envision
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what that future is gonna look like.
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And I have people begin by looking at the end of their lives and having them
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document, what do you wanna be known for?
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What do you want your obituary to say?
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What do you want your friends and family at your funeral to say?
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And then you start backward planning from the things that you wanna
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achieve in your life to make sure that you accomplish those things
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in the course of your journey.
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And by putting the negative stressors that you've, you've so, brilliantly,
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described today, you use that negative energy, flip it into positive energy.
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Put that energy into creating and sticking with and achieving the goals of the plan,
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designed to get you to having a absolutely wonderful, uh, experience throughout
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your entire, uh, time on this earth.
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Craig Floyd: David, that, that ties in nicely and is very consistent
16:54
with what you've always said on this podcast and, and privately.
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And that is instead of focusing on all the, the negative, uh, aspects
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of your life, uh, whether it be stressful, uh, day on the job as a
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police officer, or whatever it might be, focus on what you're grateful for.
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Gratitude is such an important part of the resiliency program that, that you espouse.
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touch on that a little bit if you would.
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David Berez: Yeah, absolutely.
17:21
So looking through the lens of positive psychology, we need, we, can build
17:27
our lives from a strengths-based perspective on what is good, how do we
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build from a solid foundation beyond just ameliorating our problems from a
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psychological perspective, which is I think what Dave is talking about as well.
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We don't just need to focus on what our problems are and how do we solve those?
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Because when we solve them, what do we do?
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So using things like gratitude and seeing the good parts of our
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lives, we can build on those.
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That foundation that, you know, Barbara, Dr. Barbara Frederickson talks
17:57
about her broaden and build model.
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If we build a solid foundation, a wide solid foundation, we can
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build up from that and use our strengths to keep moving forward.
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I often like to describe it as growing grass.
18:10
To be honest with you.
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We can pull weeds all day long, but we're just leaving space
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for we for more weeds to grow.
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It doesn't do anything for the grass when we pull our weeds, but if we
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fertilize and strengthen our grass, the weeds themselves will naturally die out.
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Those weeds are a metaphor for our problems and the things
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that are ill being in our lives.
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So if we strengthen and grow that grass.
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We don't get more weeds, we get more grass and strong grass.
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So gratitude is certainly one of those ways that we can do that.
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When we focus on the things that are good for us, we'll see more.
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Good.
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I equate that often to like if you're driving down the highway, when was
18:46
the last time you saw a purple truck?
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They don't really, there's not a lot of them out there.
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But if you think to yourself for the next 30 seconds about purple trucks,
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guess what you're gonna see the next time you drive down the highway.
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A purple truck and gratitude is the same thing.
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If we focus on all the good things in our lives and not just the good
19:03
things that people are doing for us and our contributions to others,
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the more we give to others, the better we feel about ourselves, the
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more good we're going to do, the more good we're gonna feel and see.
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So gratitude is a great way to, to build those strengths.
19:17
Dennis Collins: Could I interject and, and ask Biller for us to get involved here?
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Uh, those of you who are frequent, flyers on our podcast, you know that Bill Erfurth
19:25
is a 26 year veteran of the Miami-Dade Police Department now Sheriff's office,
19:31
but it was police department back then.
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He retired as a lieutenant, highly decorated and ran one of the,
19:37
uh, top units, the TNT Unit for years inside of, uh, Miami-Dade.
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I want you to reflect Billy Boy on what.
19:46
The David's both said, okay, that Dave Howe is talking about
19:54
starting when you begin as a cop on this positive life thing.
19:59
And of course we all know David Ez, positive psychology.
20:03
We know what he's all about.
20:04
What would you be thinking as a new 21-year-old Metro dad cop?
20:12
If that was part of the curriculum?
20:16
Bill Erfurth: yeah, I, I think what you guys are talking about,
20:19
and first and foremost is, is how is this going to be implemented?
20:22
Because what goes on, on the job day in and day out, it's.
20:26
Pretty difficult to change what you are going to see and what
20:30
you're going to experience.
20:31
You hear a lot of cops say, you know, after 25, after 30 years, I'll never be
20:36
able to unsee the mayhem that I've seen.
20:40
And you know, you carry that.
20:43
Forever.
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I, can honestly say, so you're asking me at 21 years old?
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I can remember when I was 21 and 22 years old, and I can vividly see it right now of
20:54
this tiny little 6-year-old girl that was.
20:58
Hit by a a, a hit and run driver.
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Her arms and her legs were twisted and contorted in every quick,
21:06
crazy way that you could see.
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She's laying on her back in the middle of the street, her big brown eyes, wide open.
21:16
Never blinked.
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Never blinked once as I was kneeling over her.
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I can still see that today and I'm sitting there as a young cop thinking.
21:25
Holy shit, what do I do for this kid?
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I don't know what the fuck I'm doing here.
21:30
You know?
21:30
And I'm getting on the radio like several times.
21:32
I'm getting on the radio.
21:33
What's the ETA on rescue?
21:34
What's the ETA on rescue?
21:35
Because you're not trained for that.
21:37
I mean, yeah, you can do a little simple first aid and stuff, but you
21:40
know, I still see that today and that was how many years ago now?
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Does that haunt me?
21:45
No, not, not really have I ever lost any sleep.
21:48
You know, you hear cops talk about, you know, they, they, they
21:51
have insomnia, they can't sleep.
21:53
They have nightmares.
21:54
I don't know.
21:55
I never had that, honestly.
21:57
You know why that is?
21:58
Perhaps it's your upbringing.
22:00
It's the way that you're raised.
22:02
But, you know, we'll get into this more of this imple implement
22:05
implementation of, of these programs with the, with both Dave's here.
22:09
Dennis Collins: but what if, but you know, what if those programs had been available
22:12
to you at 21, the program that Dave Howe has and the program that Dave Breez had,
22:19
how would you have responded to that?
22:21
Would you have said, are you, this is all fluffy, this is all bs.
22:24
I don't need this.
22:25
I, I don't, I'm just asking your, your opinion.
22:28
Bill Erfurth: Yeah.
22:28
You know, my opinion and honestly, yeah, you'd be like.
22:31
Screw that, you know, because back then though, I think that, like what David
22:35
would say, and you know, the mentality has changed now and, and it's not
22:39
quite as taboo, but it's also, you've gotta understand the police culture.
22:43
The police culture, just like the military culture where, where Dave comes, you know,
22:47
Dave was a colonel, he was, you know, involved with those folks all the time.
22:51
It's a very macho thing and no one wants to kind of.
22:56
You know, show they're less than macho side because it's, it's almost like
23:01
you're, it's perceived as a weakness.
23:03
I can tell you, you know, it's interesting when, you know, we're
23:06
in the police academy and, and you gotta go to the morgue, so
23:09
everybody's gotta go to the morgue.
23:10
And, and, and in some respects it's probably a good thing because
23:13
it did weed out some people.
23:16
But you know, you go to the morgue.
23:17
You walk in the place, it wreaks like hell.
23:20
There's dead people everywhere.
23:22
It's, like worse than Halloween.
23:24
Dennis Collins: There
23:24
Bill Erfurth: are, yeah.
23:25
Yeah.
23:25
And so you walk in this place and, of course the, uh, the medical examiner.
23:31
Looks forward to this day because he wants to see how many people he
23:34
can cause to pass out, you know?
23:36
And so now they're sawing the head open and cracking the chest open and they're,
23:41
and they, and they want you to hand you, uh, you know, body organs to hold
23:45
in your hands and all this crazy shit.
23:48
And I'm looking at this and I'm thinking.
23:50
This is horrendous.
23:51
But you know, like several people fell to the sides and passed out and other people
23:56
were nauseous and some people actually quit the academy after that because
23:59
they were like, I can't deal with this.
24:01
Wow.
24:01
So maybe that's a good thing because you weeded some of those people out because
24:05
lemme tell you something, you know, you, you kind of hinted on it earlier about how
24:09
all these traumatic incidents, you know, I have this conversation once in a while,
24:12
and your average person, maybe you see.
24:15
11 dead people your entire life, right?
24:17
And those 11 dead people, they got makeup on and their lips
24:20
are so closed and they're in the coffin laying there at a wake.
24:24
Uh, maybe you've seen a traffic accident or a violent crime, perhaps,
24:28
you know, you're talking 11 people.
24:30
Give or take in your entire life.
24:33
Yeah.
24:33
you know, a big city cop in an urban area where there's a lot more crime.
24:38
I'd see 20 dead people in a month,
24:42
Craig Floyd: right?
24:42
So
24:42
Bill Erfurth: 20 dead people in a month, times 27.
24:45
I mean, do the math.
24:45
So there's a lot crazy stuff.
24:49
I'll just say this and then we'll move on.
24:53
I think that I was never affected.
24:57
Like a number of people because I had not only good upbringing as a kid, so
25:03
I was solid in, in my, my thinking, but also because I was into sports.
25:08
Ah, so the police job wasn't my world.
25:11
It wasn't my number one be all.
25:14
Interesting end all kind of thing, because I can tell you there's a lot of people,
25:17
that's their whole life, their whole identity, that's all they care about.
25:23
That's all that they associate with.
25:25
They marry other cops.
25:27
They never get away from the lunacy.
25:29
And I was, I had a lot of outside interests.
25:33
I had media stuff going on.
25:34
I had, I had sports going on.
25:36
I had a lot of different things that.
25:40
Took me away from the daily grind of death, destruction, and despair, which
25:48
is what that job brings you every day.
25:50
Craig Floyd: Hey Dave.
25:51
How, okay, so Bill has just described how he's adjusted to his.
25:56
Police career and how he wasn't affected.
25:58
He is not, he never had suicidal thoughts.
26:01
He did.
26:01
He's not a heavy drinker.
26:02
I've been with him many times.
26:03
I've about, I out drink him every time.
26:06
And bottom line is he seemed so well adjusted.
26:09
Now, he didn't have a written life plan as you're suggesting
26:13
maybe officers should do.
26:15
But you had an interesting take on, on Bill's situation when
26:18
we had a private discussion.
26:20
I'd like you to share.
26:21
Why you thank Bill, even though he didn't have a written life plan, maybe
26:25
he still, um, uh, dealt with some of the same principles of what you're proposing.
26:33
Dave Howe: full disclosure, whatever the relationship is, bill is the
26:37
brother of my brother-in-law.
26:40
there's a family, connection there and that's how I got to know.
26:42
We haven't figured out what that
26:43
Craig Floyd: is.
26:44
Dave Howe: Yes, that's a hard, what the name of that is.
26:48
And as a result, you know, and, and my wife is a retired deputy chief
26:53
of investigations for the DuPage County State's Attorney's Office.
26:58
so I've been exposed to the law enforcement community for a long
27:01
period of time, and obviously getting to know someone, with bill's resume,
27:08
He really was at the tip of the tip of the spear for the law enforcement community.
27:13
So his stories are just so rich, so authentic, um, and so compelling.
27:20
you know, that he's a really remarkable guy.
27:22
But the thing I really want to emphasize about, what Bill just said, um, and
27:27
hopefully it'll answer your question, if not, you know, fill in the blanks, but,
27:34
Bill describes exactly why the program that I'm presenting to everyone
27:39
today is, really so important is he had a holistic view of his life.
27:47
Mm-hmm.
27:48
It wasn't 1000% tunnel focused on his, Mel, his, police career.
27:54
He had all these outside interests, all these outside relationships.
27:59
So he had lots of places that he could sort of dissipate some of the stress,
28:04
some of that, oh my God, I can't believe what I just saw in my last shift.
28:08
He had other places to, to sort of spread that out as opposed to he was
28:13
in a very narrow group and everybody was almost one-upping each other as
28:18
to how bad of a day they had or what.
28:21
Horrific event they had just had to deal with.
28:26
That's the purpose of the program is to actually come up with a written plan
28:30
for how you're gonna have a joyful life.
28:32
Exactly Like, Lieutenant Erfurth, was able to achieve without
28:36
committing it to, to writing or anything, but he had it in his mind.
28:40
Lots of people can have successful lives.
28:42
I mean, it's not a requirement.
28:44
I mean, Bill Gates didn't have a written plan.
28:47
Steve Jobs, you know, think of any famous successful person.
28:52
If you looked into their lives, I'll be willing to bat bet their
28:55
corporate plan was very detailed.
28:57
There were parts of their life that was very well documented, written
29:01
down, followed, goal achievement, uh, was, was job number one for their day.
29:10
you don't have to do this kind of program.
29:13
But one interesting statistic is, um, studies have shown that.
29:17
Only 1% of the population in our country actually have a
29:20
written plan for their life.
29:23
Yet those people that do have a written plan are nine times more successful.
29:29
Than those that do not have a plan.
29:31
Interesting.
29:32
So you can go for forward and have a very successful like, like Bill and
29:35
many others have without a written plan.
29:38
But you can optimize and increase your odds of having a really successful journey
29:44
by doing, uh, a program similar to the one that I'm presenting to you all, uh, today.
29:49
It's very,
29:50
David Berez: interesting.
29:50
I, I'd like to add one thing to that, that I think is, uh, maybe contextualize
29:54
that whole conversation, with what Bill said or what Dave said is to me it comes
29:59
down to one word and it's optimism.
30:01
And Bill has this natural, innate level of optimism where.
30:08
He, even though something bad happened to him, he turns it around
30:12
as how did that happen for him?
30:14
And it's not, he doesn't have this victimized mindset.
30:18
So there are so many people.
30:20
Negativity is twice as easy to.
30:24
conceptualize for the individual as, positivity.
30:27
So I, I think that when somebody like Bill is innately optimistic, these things don't
30:33
bother you as much or at all, even, and how you reframe them is super important.
30:40
And then the other side of that where you have the written, the concept of
30:45
the written life plan that Dave Howe is talking about is super important
30:49
because we can train optimism.
30:51
We don't all, we're not born as lucky as Bill to be that optimistic, generally
30:55
with a smile on our face all the time.
30:57
But we can learn it.
30:58
We can learn optimism through training, and I think that's what this, uh,
31:03
the, the plan that Dave was talking about is really, really good for, and
31:07
for those people that are like, bill, what that does is it, it categorizes
31:11
things for you so you can move forward with your innate already, you know,
31:15
the space you're already in naturally.
31:17
So I think it is good for both populations, but I think it serves
31:20
even better those that don't have that innate optimism that Bill has because
31:24
you can train yourself to be like that.
31:26
And if we insert this in the academies early on, as Dennis originally
31:30
asked, we're going to have less catastrophic outcomes on the other
31:33
side of your career because you're training yourself to do this over a
31:38
long period of time, and you can build up to that natural level of optimism
31:42
that Bill was already speaking to.
31:44
So I, so I
31:44
Bill Erfurth: wanna jump back in and say, all right, before we really get
31:47
into the nitty gritty of how this can be implemented, how this becomes cultural
31:52
within the law enforcement culture, say.
31:55
One thing that I think is important is when you are a cop, I, I, I'm gonna use
32:01
this term, it's called being a gore whore.
32:06
And you know, a gore whore is basically somebody that just cannot
32:09
wait to go see the death and the mayhem and the dead bodies and all
32:15
this other kind of crazy shit, right?
32:17
So there got to be a point in my career, maybe it was about
32:22
eight years into the job.
32:24
Where I said, you know what, if that isn't my call, I'm not going to that.
32:29
You know, like, so if, if it was a dead body call, if you know,
32:33
and, and let me just clarify this.
32:36
If it was a dangerous call, you know, and you needed backups and
32:38
stuff, you know, everybody went.
32:40
But if it was a, if it was a traffic fatality.
32:43
I remember younger in my career, I'd drive from the other side
32:47
of my zone to go by the traffic fatality because I was a gore whore.
32:51
I wanted to see, I wanted to see how crazy this might be, And I gotta say something,
32:57
you know, like I talking about going to the morgue, you know, when you're a young
33:00
cop, at least where I worked and I, and and, and I was working the day shift.
33:06
I dreaded getting the dead body calls.
33:10
And every morning when I'd start at 7:00 AM and since I was the, the rookie
33:15
on this day shift squad, I would get all the fricking dead body calls.
33:21
And every day you would have to go, not every day, but you know what I'm saying,
33:26
you'd have to go to these nursing homes.
33:28
Hmm.
33:28
And you'd have to walk into the nursing home because that morning
33:32
the staff found another dead person.
33:35
Yeah.
33:35
And you walk in there and the place stinks like hell.
33:38
You walk in there, they've pissed themselves or they've shit themselves,
33:42
or whatever it is, it's horrendous.
33:43
You know, body purges when they die.
33:47
But you also have to inspect the body, right?
33:51
Because you have to make sure that there wasn't any wrongdoing.
33:55
And if there was something that didn't look right, then you had to call homicide.
33:58
If not, you just called the doctor, they signed off on it, whatever.
34:01
You know, I'm not gonna get into all that.
34:03
But again, every day or every other day, you're going to see some dead person and.
34:12
I don't know.
34:12
You know, you just can't get away from some of that stuff.
34:15
But at a certain point in time in my career, I decided that I was no
34:21
longer going to just randomly go and see some horrific crime scene or see
34:29
who killed their brother for the last pork chop at the dinner table and
34:33
all this other crazy nonsense, right.
34:36
And so you have to make that decision as a cop, that you have to shield yourself,
34:42
and you have to have some kind of smarts about yourself psychologically to say, I
34:49
don't need to see all that shit every day.
34:56
Paul Boomer: What we've heard so far are the unseen costs of service,
35:00
the moments that change a life and the silence that too often follows.
35:04
But awareness is only the beginning in part two will turn toward the
35:07
question every officer eventually faces.
35:10
What comes next?
35:11
That conversation continues in part two Beyond the Badge.