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Childhood Friends Found Dead in Anguilla Vacay Hotspot, Wives Clam Up · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Dead on vacation. You set off for a tropical paradise
• 0:12
  Speaker 1: and never come home. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: Thank you for being with us here at Fox Nation
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: and Series xment eleven. Listen. When Debney McPherson Udall first
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: heard her brother Casey Palmeroy died in a terrible accident
• 0:28
  Speaker 1: in December of twenty eighteen, she couldn't shake the feeling
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: something wasn't right. The medical professional that we had to
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: read the justificates told us that it goes along the
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: lines if he was poisoned. Debeney says her sister in
• 0:43
  Speaker 1: law told them two couples were visiting them on the island.
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: When they got back to the apartment, Palmeroy and his
• 0:49
  Speaker 1: friend Caleb started having seizures started having seizures. So how
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: does that happen? Listen? She says, her sister in law
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: told them two couples were visiting them to Ring in
• 1:02
  Speaker 1: twenty nineteen and they were out to dinner. They came
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: home and my brother's friend passed out and began having seizures,
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: and then my brother began having seizures. She says. They
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: cold emergency services, but it was already too late. The
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: friend had passed away, and then my brother apparently passed
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: away at the hospital. Joining right now in auster panel
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: to makes sense of what we know. But I first
• 1:29
  Speaker 1: want to go to Debney McPherson udall. This is Casey's
• 1:33
  Speaker 1: sister and you can find her online at Justice for
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: Casey and Caleb. Debnie, thank you for being with us.
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: Thank you, Nancy Denie. I agree with you. Something isn't right.
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: And I remember these words and I mocked them mercilessly
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: at the time when doctor Henry Lee, who is a
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: renowned forensic scientist, said in the Oja Simpson case, something
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: is wrong, but you know what something is wrong. Tell
• 2:10
  Speaker 1: me when you first got the news about what had
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: happened to your brother. Well, we first got the news
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: on New Year's Day and it was from Barbara's sister.
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: She came to my parents house and along with her
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: husband and told us that there I've been an accident
• 2:31
  Speaker 1: in Anguilla and that Casey and his friend had passed away. Okay,
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, wait Autem, they called you. They came
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: to our house. But wait, where where was your house?
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Barbara's sister lives in the same town as my parents,
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: which is where? Which is in Medford, Oregon? Wait a minute,
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: didn't this happen in Anguilla? It did so somehow the
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: news had gotten to Barbara's sister, and she's the one
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: who came and told us. Debne, what went through your
• 3:02
  Speaker 1: mind when you've got the sister telling you this? Could
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: you believe it? Did you think there was a mistake?
• 3:10
  Speaker 1: We were terrified. We didn't know what was what to
• 3:13
  Speaker 1: think it was. We were wanting to make sure that
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: everyone was was safe and and we didn't know what
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: to what to think. What were you told happened to Casey?
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: They didn't know. They just said that there had been
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: an accident. We didn't know what had happened. Why was
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: he in Anguilla? To start with? He was an Anguilla
• 3:34
  Speaker 1: to go to medical school? And his wife where did
• 3:39
  Speaker 1: they meet? They met at a medical convention there in Fresno, California.
• 3:46
  Speaker 1: Was she also a med student? No? She was a
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: medical professional and Casey was a salesman. What is that?
• 3:53
  Speaker 1: What is a medical professional like a physician's assistant and nurse? What?
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: She's a nurse practitioner with a edital two endorsements? Okay?
• 4:02
  Speaker 1: And who is Caleb? Caleb Guillory is one of Casey's
• 4:06
  Speaker 1: childhood friends, and why was he Caleb in Anguilla. Caleb
• 4:12
  Speaker 1: and his wife traveled to Anguilla to spend the holiday
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  Speaker 1: with Barbara and Casey. So let me understand, Caleb Guillory
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: and his wife Carly went down to visit your brother
• 4:26
  Speaker 1: Casey and his wife Barbara. Yes, that's correct, Okay. Straight
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: out to Katie Strite joining US multi media journalists with
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: Spectrum US thirteen in Orlando. Katie, thank you for being
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: with us. Um you can find her on insta at
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: Katie Strite. Tell me about Anguilla. What is it? Where
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: is it? How big is it? Well, it's a it's
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  Speaker 1: an island in the Caribbean, and it's it's a pretty
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  Speaker 1: small island. Actually, you know, very hot vacations and that's uh,
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: that is kind of you know, a very hot a
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  Speaker 1: vacation spot. I'm just thinking about. I mean, I know
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: they've got very high end resorts there, like four seasons. Um.
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  Speaker 1: I know, it's a British territory and it's got huge
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: stretches of white sand beaches. Um uh, it's a really
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  Speaker 1: big vacation spot and gorgeous. So we've got one the
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  Speaker 1: brother Casey there in medical school and his friend Caleb
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  Speaker 1: comes to visit along with his wife. So that is
• 5:42
  Speaker 1: what we know, and we know that somehow Casey is dead.
• 5:47
  Speaker 1: But that's not all we learned that. When did you learn, debony,
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  Speaker 1: that not only is your brother dead, but his best
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  Speaker 1: friend too. Well, we learned right away that both Casey
• 6:01
  Speaker 1: and Caleb had passed away. We just didn't know how
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: and we didn't have any details at all. Guys, how
• 6:09
  Speaker 1: did it get up to this point? Take a listen
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: to our Francis Kobi, the Eagle Point native, moved to
• 6:15
  Speaker 1: California in two thousand and four to work as an
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  Speaker 1: actor and producer. That's also where he met his wife, Barbara.
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  Speaker 1: The two were married six years before trading in the
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  Speaker 1: Hollywood lights for a much quieter life thousands of miles
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  Speaker 1: away on the Eastern Caribbean island of Anguilla. There's actually
• 6:32
  Speaker 1: a surprise that he wanted to go to medical school.
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  Speaker 1: It really wasn't a dream of his. But we were
• 6:38
  Speaker 1: excited for him. We were all excited for him because
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  Speaker 1: this was something spectacular that he was doing with his life,
• 6:45
  Speaker 1: something spectacular that he Casey is doing with his life,
• 6:50
  Speaker 1: becoming a doctor listen. They were living in the district
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  Speaker 1: of Violin Harbor, just a few miles away from the
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  Speaker 1: Saint James School of Medicine, where Paul m Roy was
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: attending school. He loved it over there. It was beautiful.
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  Speaker 1: They were living in Paradise. Four months later, tragedy struck.
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  Speaker 1: We're able to communicate with his wife, and she had
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: told us that it was an accident. Like to you,
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: Debnie McPherson, You doll, what type of accident were you
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  Speaker 1: told that claimed the life of your brother Casey. We
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: weren't told. We didn't know. We weren't told any details
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: at that time. You know. Joining me right now twenty
• 7:31
  Speaker 1: seven years as an FBI agent. You can find him
• 7:35
  Speaker 1: at Bobby chacone dot com. He is a writer of
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: audibles After the Fault. Bobby, thank you for being with us.
• 7:44
  Speaker 1: Why is it, Bobby, whenever anyone dies on one of
• 7:49
  Speaker 1: these islands, it's always shrouded in mystery. I mean, you
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: think about it. You've got Natalie Holloway. We don't know.
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: I know what happened to her, but I don't know
• 7:59
  Speaker 1: exactly what happened. They were You've got Robin Gardner, Uh,
• 8:02
  Speaker 1: it just goes on and on and on. You've got
• 8:05
  Speaker 1: George Smithy falls off the craze. Shit body never found it.
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: Just why is that, Bobby? You know, Nancy. I think
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: it's because as as popular as these places off of
• 8:15
  Speaker 1: vacation spots and many people go and visit them. Um,
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: in the end, they are very insular. They're very close society.
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: There's a lot of corruption, both in the police department
• 8:25
  Speaker 1: and the courts and in politics. I think these are
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: very you know, everybody knows everybody else. And we've seen
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: time and time again people get away with murder, and
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: they literally get away with murder in these places because
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: either corruption or uh you know, uh, bad police work
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: or no police work. Uh. And and and these small
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  Speaker 1: island nations are sovereign nations. Sometimes they protectorate's of the
• 8:50
  Speaker 1: UK or someplace like that, but they kind of can
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  Speaker 1: operate on their own and there's not a lot of
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: reach that you know, places like the US can have
• 8:57
  Speaker 1: in the you know, law enforcement from a year and
• 9:00
  Speaker 1: go there. You know, you and I have both seen
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: that in these cases. So I think it's they're very
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: insular societies and it's hard to for us to have
• 9:07
  Speaker 1: any influence there very difficult to have any influence there.
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  Speaker 1: Another thing Bobby chkne joining us from an FBI agent
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  Speaker 1: is that their law enforcement is nothing compare everybody f
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: wines and carries on about the US law enforcement. I
• 9:24
  Speaker 1: don't get it. They've got the best police force, state, local,
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: and federal in the world, in the world. In Great Britain,
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: they come after you with a stick. Okay, you're robbing
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: a bank with a gun, they come for you with
• 9:35
  Speaker 1: a stick. Okay, that's a whole other can of worms.
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  Speaker 1: But on these islands, their police forces are rudimentary. I mean,
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  Speaker 1: I'm really surprised they came up with what they thought
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  Speaker 1: was the cause of death in this case. I mean
• 9:52
  Speaker 1: they I mean, you tell them, hey, go get touch DNA,
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  Speaker 1: It's like, what what's that? Nanthy? And you know, you
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: and I both note that for its excience of comes
• 10:00
  Speaker 1: such a long way, you know, in recent years and
• 10:03
  Speaker 1: being used in terrifical ways to solve cases. But we
• 10:06
  Speaker 1: also know that crime scenes need to be done quickly
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: and write the first time, or you can lose evidence forever.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: And unfortunately that happens in some of these cases where
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: law enforcement is not very good or not even existent
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  Speaker 1: at all, or this corruption, and then you lose that vital,
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  Speaker 1: valuable evidence from the crime scene that you could have obtained.
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: You know quickly, it's like Humpty dumpty. You lose it.
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  Speaker 1: It's gone. You can never get it back. What's that
• 10:32
  Speaker 1: crime It's either gone with vacuuming or sweeping or whatever.
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  Speaker 1: You can never put humpty dumpty back together again. It's over.
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  Speaker 1: You can't reconstruct and get that forensic evidence. The call
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  Speaker 1: came on a New Year's Day to the families that
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  Speaker 1: Casey and as childhood friend friends all these years, Caleb
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  Speaker 1: on the Caribbean island up Anguilla, where the both of
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  Speaker 1: the two men and their wives were bringing in the holiday.
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  Speaker 1: We're both dead, miraculously the wives lived. But leading up
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  Speaker 1: to it, how did these two guys really know each other? Listen,
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  Speaker 1: we've known Caleb since he was nine years old, so
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  Speaker 1: he was like our boy too. Both men, their wives,
• 11:22
  Speaker 1: and another Southern organ couple were having drinks when Caleb
• 11:26
  Speaker 1: and Casey started having a seizure, or so the family
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: was told, but both men's death certificates tell a different story.
• 11:33
  Speaker 1: Seizures death certificates. I mean, when you first got this news. Debney,
• 11:40
  Speaker 1: this is Casey's sister. Your head must have been railing here.
• 11:45
  Speaker 1: They go into seizures and you're getting various conflicting accounts
• 11:50
  Speaker 1: of what happened. I mean, hold on to take a
• 11:53
  Speaker 1: listen to our friends at wt VL or It says
• 11:56
  Speaker 1: from that moment on, things continued to go downhill. Before
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: they could get back to them their condo, he fell
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  Speaker 1: out and went into cardiac arrest. Casey got sick himself
• 12:08
  Speaker 1: and he went into cardiac arrest. Ward says. All four
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  Speaker 1: individuals who were there were arrested following the incident. Okay,
• 12:15
  Speaker 1: what were you told deaboney about the incident that claimed
• 12:18
  Speaker 1: the life of your brother. We were told that they
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: were poisoned from a beach bar. Poisoned from a beach bar,
• 12:27
  Speaker 1: joining us doctor Dennis Darty, medical director Right Relief Help,
• 12:32
  Speaker 1: and the Robert W. Dale Memorial Treatment Center at Duke University.
• 12:37
  Speaker 1: Doctor Darty, thank you for being with us. Thank you
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: that what could have caused. I mean, they're at a bar,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: doctor Doherty, celebrating it's New Year's The four of them
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  Speaker 1: are together, the two wives, the two husbands, and suddenly
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: one of them goes into seizures the other or Casey
• 13:02
  Speaker 1: tries to perform CPR, then he gets sick and they
• 13:06
  Speaker 1: both die. Now that sounds like a lot more than
• 13:09
  Speaker 1: a date rate drug GB. Yes, I mean absolutely, I
• 13:15
  Speaker 1: mean gamma hydroxyh B gamma hydroxy. But rate would not
• 13:21
  Speaker 1: kill you if it were being used as typically is
• 13:25
  Speaker 1: at bars. So what what could it have been? Thing
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: is that the time cores when I looked at it
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: seems to be very pored for someone even to quote
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: overdose on alcohol, for alcohol and any other substance, and
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: you absolutely right, it would be improbable in that time
• 13:52
  Speaker 1: and any other thing that would be added, particularly things
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: that are then the agent beings a valuable or whatever,
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: they wouldn't be resulting in appreciated by those sympthings exactly.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: I mean typically when someone's administered GHB, gama hijoxy bet. Right,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: it's commonly noticed that date rate drug. It knocks you
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: out and then after a period of hours you come
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: back too with little or no recollection of what has happened.
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: Joining me. Also, in addition to doctor Dennis Dohugherty is
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: Devin Doherty, Clinical Coordinator Alcohol Drug Counselor at RIGHT Relief
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: Help wagh in. What do you make of it? I think, well,
• 14:44
  Speaker 1: we think together after looking at the information we've been provided,
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: that these statistics and the probability that something of this
• 14:53
  Speaker 1: nature would happen the two individuals on the same nights
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: and from a couple of SIPs of a drink would
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: die and then another person would be fine, is well crazy?
• 15:12
  Speaker 1: I don't know how else to put it. Highly unlikely, yes,
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: highly unlikely. Yeah, yeah, I mean typically a female slipped
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: GHB and she gets dizzy and passes out and that's it.
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: So I'm saying GHB because we all are familiar with
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: that was the substance. Katie Strike joining us a multimedia
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: journalist Respectrum News thirteen, Orlando was the substance. The poisoning
• 15:39
  Speaker 1: agent ever identified, not that we know of. I mean
• 15:42
  Speaker 1: they in the dusth certificate. Bay had a laundry list
• 15:46
  Speaker 1: of reasons why Kesey and Caleb died, but the actual
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: police itself was never was never sat in an atlasting
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: death certificate. Take Alestar Fransic Kobi. First, the family didn't
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: ask too many questions who it is and guilla investigating
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: the sudden deaths of two Americans. Then news outlets picked
• 16:10
  Speaker 1: up the story. The story started to come out, story
• 16:14
  Speaker 1: started to change. When they were there on the island.
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: They had them cremated right away, and we were in
• 16:23
  Speaker 1: agreement about that. After she claims police wouldn't provide her
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: information on his death, she says, the trail went cold.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: That is very unusual. Deboni McPherson udall joining me, this
• 16:35
  Speaker 1: is Casey's sister. Why wouldn't police get any information because
• 16:40
  Speaker 1: they do not consider us next of ken and they
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: would only communicate with his widow. That's quite the coincidence,
• 16:47
  Speaker 1: isn't it that both the husbands die after just a
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: couple of SIPs of a drink, not even the whole drink.
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: One goes into immediate seizures, followed by the next and
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: they both die and are immediately cremated. So we're told
• 17:04
  Speaker 1: poisoning is a cod cause of death, but listen to
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: our france at Kobi. Casey's death certificate says he died
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: of pulmonary edema, cardiac toxicity, cardiac a, schemia, hypothermia, and seizures.
• 17:17
  Speaker 1: Caleb's death certificate says he died of asphyxiation, strangulation, ligature,
• 17:23
  Speaker 1: multiple blood force traumas and seizures. The families say there's
• 17:27
  Speaker 1: never been a reason for how this could have happened. Hey,
• 17:29
  Speaker 1: I'd love to accept their story. I'm still at a
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: point I'd love to accept it. If that's what happened,
• 17:33
  Speaker 1: that's what happened. But why would the death certificate indicate differently. Okay,
• 17:39
  Speaker 1: now we're getting down to it. Bobby Chicone. The death
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: certificate says, I don't hear anything about poisoning. It says
• 17:48
  Speaker 1: pulinary pulonary edema, cardiac toxicity. I'm not sure what that is,
• 17:54
  Speaker 1: Cardiac ishemia, hypothermia, hypothermia. I mean it's going to get
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: really cold, seizures. That's casey. Caleb's death certificate says he
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: dies of asphyxiation, strangulation both manual and ligature, multiple blunt
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: force trauma, and seizures. Wait, the poisoning is not consistent
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: with strangulation and blunt force, Bobby Chick, None at all, Nancy,
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: It's so unusual to have two people die and then look,
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: all we know is these things that were supposing all
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: come from the widow. We don't really have any other
• 18:32
  Speaker 1: information about really what happened and how it happened. We're
• 18:35
  Speaker 1: getting all this information widow, and now we know what
• 18:37
  Speaker 1: she's telling us. That they imbibe some alcohol from the
• 18:41
  Speaker 1: same cup and got sick does not match the physical
• 18:44
  Speaker 1: results of the autopsy. And to have two people, two
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: grown man, die from such different causes at the same time,
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: in the same presence of the same four other individuals,
• 18:56
  Speaker 1: the two widows and that other couple, I mean, it's
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: very very strange. Their stories just don't match the physical
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: evidence at the crime scene, which has been determined to
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: the utopsy. Crime stories with Nancy Grace, Devinie, if you're
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: seeing you, dall, I understand one wife is saying poisoning.
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: What does the other wife say? They say that the
• 19:30
  Speaker 1: deatificates are fake, that they're not correct. Okay, why would
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: a medical I assume it was a medical examiner, a
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: doctor reviewed the bodies and determined asphyxiation, strangulation, and blood trauma.
• 19:46
  Speaker 1: Was it a doctor, Yeah, it was. Why in the
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: world would there be any reason for a doctor, unknown
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: to these people, fake a death certificate. Karen Stark joining me,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: your psychologist Adam Manhattan at Karenstart dot com. That's Karen
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: with a C. What do you make of it. Well,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: come on, Nancy, something is very very fishy here. It
• 20:08
  Speaker 1: doesn't How can four people be okay, two of them
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: are poisoned, but the other ones aren't poisoned, And then
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: you get these death certificates in they're saying they're made up,
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: and you're talking about a foreign place when nobody can
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: really verify what's going on and what happened. It is
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: the strict one of the strangest stories, honestly, and we've
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: covered a lot that I have ever heard. Joining me
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: is Christopher Montgomery, consulting, an agent to McPherson Pomeroy Foundation
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: and board member at Redbanion dot com. Christopher, I find
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: it very hard to believe that a medical examiner faked
• 20:47
  Speaker 1: an autopsy report, Nancy. What I find most even more
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: incredible than that, is how the feather survivors, if we
• 20:54
  Speaker 1: call them that, at the moment pick and shoes. When
• 20:57
  Speaker 1: the medical examiner is at state and when the medical
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: examiner is faking, they're picking and choosing what they want,
• 21:05
  Speaker 1: their cherry pickingness. That's where I started the first problem
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: in all of it. Then I go from their nancy
• 21:11
  Speaker 1: to the fact that this is a place where where
• 21:14
  Speaker 1: Americans are going to medical school. This is not some
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: third world country Banana Republic. This is modern medicine, at
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: least at the hospital level. Here. These people knew what
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: they were doing. These parties to be accurate. Guys, take
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: a listen to our friend Amanda Rais. We just want
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: to know what happened. We want to have the truth
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: of what happened. Months later, she says, the family got
• 21:36
  Speaker 1: ahold of Pomeroy's death certificate pulmonary edema, cardiac tosicity, cardiac ishmia, hypothermia,
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: and seizures. The medical professional that we had to read
• 21:49
  Speaker 1: the justificate told us that it goes along the lines
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: if he was poisoned. But that wasn't the family's only surprise.
• 21:59
  Speaker 1: Not the family only surprise. That's an understatement. Listen, Debony
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: had expected her brother's friend who have died the same way.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: The cause of death for him was asphyxiation, strangulation, both
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: ligature and manuel, multiple blunt force traumas and seizures. Today,
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: Palmeroy's family believes he was murdered. You're not able to
• 22:25
  Speaker 1: grieve at this time because you don't have those answers
• 22:28
  Speaker 1: and you don't have closure. We do need that closure
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: because we just need to heal. We've heard from Casey's
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: sister joining us, Debony, take a listen to what Caleb's
• 22:38
  Speaker 1: uncle has to say. My nephew's case strangulation by literature,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: that's a freaking rope around your neck, or a belt
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: or a strap or some kind of an instrument that
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: is choking you. Three years later, the case is still
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: not going anywhere. Not one of the force suspects has
• 22:56
  Speaker 1: appeared before a gwyllin authorities who have gone out of
• 23:00
  Speaker 1: their way to make it possible for them to testify.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: You know, the inquest is still ongoing in Anguilla. And
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: more from Kabi. The friend had passed away and then
• 23:12
  Speaker 1: my brother apparently passed away at the hospital. But Caleb's
• 23:16
  Speaker 1: death certificate shows something very different. Asphyxiation strangulation both ligature
• 23:23
  Speaker 1: and manual, multiple blunt force traumas and seizures, blunt force trauma, seizures,
• 23:32
  Speaker 1: ligature and manual strangulation. Why is there no homicide prosecution?
• 23:39
  Speaker 1: I want to go straight back to special Guests joining us.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: This is Debity mac fiercing U Dahal Casey's sister. How
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: did his widow behave when you finally saw her. Well,
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: when she came to the house, we all sat down together,
• 23:56
  Speaker 1: and she was the spokesperson for the entire group, and
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: we what do you mean by the entire group? Well,
• 24:05
  Speaker 1: when they came to our my parents' house, the four
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: of them came all together. What four That would be
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: Caleb's widow, Carly and Barbara and Chuck and Alicia Gross.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: You're Chuck and Alicia Gross. Chuck and Alicia Gross are
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: the other couple. And Chuck was childhood friends with Casey
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: and Caleb as well. So why do they all come
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: to Casey's family home Because they wanted to all come
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: together to tell us their story, okay, And what was
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: their story, Dabney, Well, Barbara was the spokesperson for the group.
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: No one else spoke. And that's your brother's wife, okay, yes,
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: that is his widow. And she told us that they
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: had gone to the beach bar and that their drinks
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: had been poisoned and that she had gotten sick, and
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: that they were all arrested and we'll never have any answers,
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: that we just needed to move on. She actually said
• 25:13
  Speaker 1: to move on, that we were never going to have
• 25:14
  Speaker 1: any answers, that this is too what that we just
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: I'm a lost for words right now because I'm transury.
• 25:23
  Speaker 1: Remember that day. What were the others doing is she's
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: telling you to move on? They were all looking down
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: at the ground. I don't like that. I don't like
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: that looking down in the ground at all. Dodger Dennis
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: see Darty joining us right Relief Health. What do you
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: make of the conflicting stories? I mean, one of the friends,
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: Caleb died a blood force trauma and strangulation. How did
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: that happen after a bad drink? Yeah? I agree, it's
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: fairly ridiculous form. She'd be Some beings here are so
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: inconsistent and driven by the informations among one person, and
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: it's it's not in any way doesn't smack of a
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: truthful accounting of wanting, you know, trying to gather it
• 26:20
  Speaker 1: remation to define how I love one has been taken
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: from you. Doctor Jordy, have you ever heard of a
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: medical examiner faking an autopsy report? I've not heard of it,
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: but I have to comment, and I know that we
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: have other experts, but and I gave read in fact
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: because I'm compulsion about it. But there appears to me
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: and I just what I've seen in some states, the
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: immediate and the native staming is that the immediate cause
• 26:52
  Speaker 1: of death is method. So it sounds ridiculous to me
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: and it would to you. But if you died from something,
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: obviously that it's the three hours before, but the immediate
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: cond death was blood loss or hyperbolinian, you will see
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: a death certificate. The death certificate is not issued until
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: the final autopsy is done. I mean, somebody may look
• 27:21
  Speaker 1: like they had they fell and died, then the autopsy
• 27:24
  Speaker 1: reveals they were poisoned. So the ultimate death certificate does
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: not say falling downstairs. The ultimate death certificate states what
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: the autopsy says. It's my understanding, Bobby Chico, is that
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: you're understanding as well? Yeah, yes, But Nancy, in this case,
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: it gets even worse because Barbara, the widow of Kasey,
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: are very quickly arranged to have both those bodies transported
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: off the island of India to a close by island
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: and have been cremated. Now, she's a medical professional. If
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: she thought her husband was poisoned, she knows the importance
• 27:55
  Speaker 1: of toxicology and preserving tissue stands. Actually, why on earth
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: which you have that body moved off island to the
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: nearest cremation facility on another island, and I've been cremated.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Private Eye T. J. Ward.
• 28:10
  Speaker 1: This is a wtvl. Ward says, there are clues that
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: show differently they have the bodies cremated on the island.
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: There's another clue. We have learned that there's the insurance company,
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: the health the life insurance on casey Barbara, prior to
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: them moving to the island, tried to increase the life
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: insurance up one and a half million dollars one and
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: a half million dollars life insurance. Deboney on your brother. Yes,
• 28:35
  Speaker 1: that is correct, one and a half million dollars. Go ahead, deboney,
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: this is debon. I may I added something to jump in, Okay,
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: I was going to say, I mean. And the other
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: factor here is that if we had all of the information,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: like Chris touched on. We're not touched on. He puts
• 28:57
  Speaker 1: laid out there. But if we had more information from
• 29:00
  Speaker 1: the other parties that were at this you know, event
• 29:04
  Speaker 1: and participating and whatever, then we would actually probably be
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: able to ascertain more information. Not to mention that you know,
• 29:15
  Speaker 1: you can also get the evolution and science and forensics.
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: You can even from you know, cremated ashes, you can
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: get information. What information can you get from cremated ashes?
• 29:28
  Speaker 1: I don't know there's specific agents yet, but I am
• 29:33
  Speaker 1: it's advaned, just as mister Yakonians stated, to the point
• 29:39
  Speaker 1: where almost what you can imagine can't be done can't
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: be done. I wouldn't have imagine it five years ago
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: or ten years ago. But you know the fact that
• 29:49
  Speaker 1: that the bodies was so quickly disposed of it was remarkable. Again,
• 29:56
  Speaker 1: even not just because as I unders should ready that
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: the readings on the papers that is anting automatically declare
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: the suspicious step anyway in GLOA, I don't understand as
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: a non investigative, but a position, why would you let
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: information go like me tossing out your MRI, all your
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: lab and your physically madam? What's your family said? How
• 30:25
  Speaker 1: can you make the God announced this about all your
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: information time stories with Nancy Grace to Debney, make person
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: you doll or actually let me throw this to Christopher
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: Montgomery who's working with the family. Is it's true that
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: the widow Casey's widow will not give Debney access to
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: records that's one hundred percent true. You don't. Also to
• 31:03
  Speaker 1: just back up just a moment, Nancy here, first of all,
• 31:05
  Speaker 1: was leaving the island with the bodies. The widow had
• 31:08
  Speaker 1: the opportunity to bring the bodies back to the States,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: back to Oregon for the families for proper goodbyes, proper burials,
• 31:17
  Speaker 1: even desposition there for free, Yet she chose to pay
• 31:22
  Speaker 1: to transport the bodies to another island for quick disposal.
• 31:26
  Speaker 1: When she returned to Oregon, she said that they needed
• 31:30
  Speaker 1: to keep it quiet and not discuss it for fear
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: of something happening to these four survivors. Yet while she
• 31:38
  Speaker 1: was on the island, she was part of a funeral
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: procession for Casey and Caleb that one hundred and twenty
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: members of the public attended. While she said she was
• 31:49
  Speaker 1: in fear. Was the family invited to the memorial? I
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: guess the procession you described, No, as the family and
• 31:57
  Speaker 1: the consultant. We did not even learn that this happened
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: until last year. We have only known about that event
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: for less than twelve months at this point in time.
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: So let me understand. They die apparent alcohol poisoning, even
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: though one is bludgeon is s triangled, they're immediately taken
• 32:15
  Speaker 1: off the island and cremated. They actually have a funeral
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: procession on the island, and the victim's family had no
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: idea about the funeral procession. Nope, we did not know
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: until last year. And they said when they came to
• 32:31
  Speaker 1: Oregon and met with Debony, they said that this needed
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: to be kept quiet because the four of them were
• 32:36
  Speaker 1: in fear for their own lives. Yet within a couple
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: of miles, less than five miles of the actual murder location,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: they had this funeral where the public of over one
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: hundred and twenty people came and went, and yet they're
• 32:48
  Speaker 1: in fear of their lives, no security without that funeral.
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: To take a listen to Mandaro's The inconsistencies in the
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: story and the more sinister possibility the two men were
• 32:58
  Speaker 1: murdered are what drew private investigator T. J. Ward to
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: the case is totally wrong. What dare saying happened and
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: once transpired. He knows all too well how difficult it
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: is to investigate a tragedy abroad. And these kids are
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: young adults, think that everything's a saying for beer, that
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: they can do the same things here that they can
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: do over there, which is totally wrong, and theres no
• 33:24
  Speaker 1: there has not been an inquest. Is that correct? The widow,
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: she's delayed the inquest, Nancy, this is Chris mcgomer. She
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: has delayed it by refusing to cooperate with the inquest
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: and the widow. You go ahead, dear. The widow and
• 33:37
  Speaker 1: the three others have been offered the opportunity a to
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: return to the island to testify in person. They refused.
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: They then claimed COVID the island has offered them that
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: the ability to testify being zoom from anywhere on Earth
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: that they're choosing just call in. They say it's not
• 33:54
  Speaker 1: safe for them even to do that from an undisclosed
• 33:57
  Speaker 1: bunker fifty feet underground wherever they want to go. They're
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: not it's not safe for them to testify, so they refused.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Mobby Chicon, please explain to everybody what's an inquest. Well,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: I mean it's usually done by a car. It's a
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: it's a medical investigation. You try to you know, sometimes
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: these uh these British countries or protectorates call their investigation inquest.
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: It's it's just simply a very primimary investigation looking into
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: what happened and how how things happen, So you get
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: the first The first part of it is you talk
• 34:26
  Speaker 1: to everybody that was there. You get official, sworn statements
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: about what they did and what they saw at the time.
• 34:33
  Speaker 1: These people's debt and that is what they are refusing
• 34:36
  Speaker 1: to attend. Guys, take a listen to our cust fifteen sixteen.
• 34:40
  Speaker 1: This is Amanda rose Ward says, he, like Debony, has
• 34:44
  Speaker 1: been struggling to put the pieces together and accessing information
• 34:48
  Speaker 1: has been difficult. It is here in the United Space.
• 34:52
  Speaker 1: The next step, he says, is for the court to
• 34:54
  Speaker 1: hold an inquests, you know, for other witnesses in this case.
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: They've been requested to return to the island, which I
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: felt very serious. What's going to happen without an inquest
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: and the testimonies of those involved. Wards says the road
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: ahead is unclear, but one thing is certain. The family
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: will continue to fight to keep the case alive and
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: get justice for Casey. They know that we are onto
• 35:18
  Speaker 1: the truth, that we're uncovering what's happening. The family tells
• 35:22
  Speaker 1: us they've also hired an attorney on the island. The
• 35:24
  Speaker 1: attorney told us it's uncommon to have an inquest if
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: there is evidence of an unnatural death or possible homicide.
• 35:31
  Speaker 1: For that reason, he says he's fighting to get a
• 35:33
  Speaker 1: criminal investigation under way. Devanie, this is Casey's sister. You
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: have described this entire scenario an I quote as a big,
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: huge spider web of lies and deception. Correct? Why? Because
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: the story keeps changing and the more things that we
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: uncover it put holes in holding their story. Nancy, it's
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: christmagovery and every time we turn around, when we just
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: last year we find out this funeral was hosted, we
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: find out all these things years later, months and years later,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: we keep learning new things where this family had a
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: chance to get all the information on day one, and
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: yet nothing was provided to them. The phone calls made
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: by Barbara from the island at the start of this
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: are suspicious. What tione calls are you farring? In the
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: first days after Casey's death. We have reports right now
• 36:31
  Speaker 1: that she made three phone calls from jail. She made
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: a phone call to Life Insurance, she made a phone
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: call to a corporate attorney, and she made a phone
• 36:37
  Speaker 1: call to the contingent beneficiary of the life insurance policy,
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: all three of which we understand went to the island.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: The family was the only way to get the truth
• 36:47
  Speaker 1: here is for there to be a full hearing and
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: inquest in Anguilla. And the only way we're going to
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: have that is if these parties agree to it. That
• 36:57
  Speaker 1: doesn't even make sense. Why do they have to agree
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: to an inquest. I don't understand that, christpher Montgomery. That's
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: been our question as well. Barbara has said on repeated
• 37:08
  Speaker 1: occasions she's not aware of an inquest. Yet. We can
• 37:11
  Speaker 1: show where she has been directly officially told that she
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: needs to appear, she'll publicly say that she hasn't. We
• 37:18
  Speaker 1: can show the evidence where she has. Well, I can
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: tell you this much, something is very, very wrong. We
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: wait as justice and Fols. Nancy Grace comes to resigning off.
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: Goodbye friend.