Latest / Revelio: A Wizarding World Podcast / Episode 49: The Greater Good

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Episode 49: The Greater Good · Revelio: A Wizarding World Podcast

• 0:12
  Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to episode forty nine of Ravellio for
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: July twenty third, twenty twenty six. I'm Amy and I'm Nicole.
• 0:33
  Speaker 2: So in this episode, we thought that we would revisit
• 0:37
  Speaker 2: our character deep dives because it's been a little bit
• 0:40
  Speaker 2: since we've done one, and we figured this episode would
• 0:43
  Speaker 2: go a little bit darker, and we will be discussing
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: Gellert Grindewald. But first.
• 0:54
  Speaker 1: Listening to w WN, the Wizarding Wireless Network, No for
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the latest lines. All right, another light news week here,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: But that's okay because we always talk a lot in
• 1:06
  Speaker 1: character deep dive episodes, so that's fine. But a couple
• 1:12
  Speaker 1: things here to go through. Universal Nights is coming to
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Epic Universe, and this after hours event is happening for
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: two nights in October, so that will be October third,
• 1:24
  Speaker 1: in October seventeenth. Attractions will be open and there will
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: also be special character meet and greets. The tickets for
• 1:32
  Speaker 1: this event are one hundred and seventy nine dollars each
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: and include unlimited snacks and of course experiencing the park
• 1:40
  Speaker 1: at night at limited capacity, which, let's be honest, that's
• 1:44
  Speaker 1: the main draw. So tickets go on sale August thirteenth,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: and annual pass holders can get a ten percent discount.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that these kind of events are like
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: a little pricey even I think, like, would that discount.
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: I think it is nice that you get the unlimited snacks,
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: but I'm really curious, like what is included in that.
• 2:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it is a lot.
• 2:19
  Speaker 2: I mean details about this, but it is a lot.
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: That's a lot more than a ticket for a full
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: day at Epic Universe at the pass holder rate anyway. Right, So, yeah,
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: the park's really cool at night though, So I mean
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: that's in your price range, go for it.
• 2:42
  Speaker 2: Definitely helps it in the battle of the ministry when
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: you've got that reduced capacity to right.
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah. So then another bit of news here is the
• 2:53
  Speaker 1: Back to Hogwarts twenty twenty six merch collection has dropped
• 2:57
  Speaker 1: in the official store. I took a look at the collection. Honestly,
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: my own opinion, I find it a little bit underwhelming.
• 3:07
  Speaker 1: I liked last year's Back to Hogwarts collection. This one,
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: I'm just kind of it's okay. But there is a
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: T shirt, leather backpack, water bottle, mug, socks, pen and
• 3:21
  Speaker 1: pencil set, a pin, a key ring, a magnet, a
• 3:25
  Speaker 1: postcard and a quality quidditch supply tea light.
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't really like it either. Yeah, it's just
• 3:35
  Speaker 2: very beige, which I usually like things that are very
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: beige and neutral and basic, and I guess what some
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: people would think kind of boring. And I'm even not
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: really a fan of this. I've never actually been super
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: compelled to ever buy anything from the back to Hogwarts
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: collections anyways, even given my affinity for merchandise, So I'm
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: kind of glad that it's another year that I'm like, cool,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: I don't need that.
• 4:04
  Speaker 1: I'm good.
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like a lot of boiling, like yeah,
• 4:08
  Speaker 2: and like rose gold boiling. But the backpack is kind
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: of cute, the Platform nine and three quarterbackpack, But I
• 4:16
  Speaker 2: have zero need for something like that. But it's always
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: really cool when they do something like that and incorporate
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: It's got a wand pocket on the pip and I
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: do really like that.
• 4:23
  Speaker 1: But yeah, I love a good wand pocket. Yeah, all right,
• 4:32
  Speaker 1: and then our last bit of news. This is unconfirmed,
• 4:36
  Speaker 1: so it's really not so much news and more rumor,
• 4:41
  Speaker 1: but I thought i'd throw it in. Open casting call
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: went out in early July for a new Ginny Weasley
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: for the HBO show after it was announced that Gracie
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: Cochrane would not continue the role after season one. Now,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: the rumor part of this is that the initial casting
• 5:00
  Speaker 1: call has wrapped up in the studio is now going
• 5:03
  Speaker 1: through the finalists for the role, so they've really narrowed
• 5:06
  Speaker 1: this down. I've seen this multiple places, but I've not
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: been able to find an actual direct source confirming this,
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: like a statement from HBO or anything like that. So
• 5:19
  Speaker 1: take this how you will. But it seems like we're
• 5:21
  Speaker 1: a little bit closer to getting our Jenny Weasley, and
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: hopefully she's in it for the long haul.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: You Jenny every year.
• 5:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it's the cursed role. It's like the Ida position.
• 5:37
  Speaker 2: Oh my god. I was so excited to finally get
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: like a book, hopefully a book accurate Jenny. And it's
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: not starting off that great. But again, like we said,
• 5:47
  Speaker 2: I think we said before, it's good that it's kind
• 5:49
  Speaker 2: of happening now before Obviously, Jenny takes a more major
• 5:53
  Speaker 2: role in Chamber of Secrets, So I guess good thing
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: that it's happening now. And this isn't always a bad thing.
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: I've had a lot of shows that I've had to
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: replace characters throughout because of just scheduling things and things happen, right,
• 6:09
  Speaker 2: and both actor actresses have been great in it, So.
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, we shall see what happens. Yeah, and that's it
• 6:21
  Speaker 1: for the news. Want more Rebellion Join our Patreon for
• 6:27
  Speaker 1: exclusive perks and content, including digital downloads, extended conversations, and
• 6:33
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• 6:37
  Speaker 1: out how you can help support the show at patreon
• 6:40
  Speaker 1: dot com slash Revellio Podcast.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: So, like we mentioned, we were going to decided we
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: were going to talk about Gellert Grindewald this episode and
• 6:52
  Speaker 2: do a little bit of a character deep dive. And
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: you know, myself, as the resident Lytherin, was super excited
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: to dive in and lead this discussion because dark topic.
• 7:03
  Speaker 2: Give it to the Slytherin.
• 7:05
  Speaker 1: You've been wanting to do this one.
• 7:06
  Speaker 2: I've been wanting to talk about Galla Grandola for a
• 7:09
  Speaker 2: while and I think I mean, we've definitely, I think
• 7:11
  Speaker 2: some of the things we'll probably talk about in this
• 7:12
  Speaker 2: episode we've like alluded to like a little bit before.
• 7:15
  Speaker 2: But yeah, I just I think he's such an interesting
• 7:20
  Speaker 2: character and I always I've said before, right, I love
• 7:23
  Speaker 2: a villain and their story and like their motivation, and
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: I think that I dot towards the end here we
• 7:31
  Speaker 2: can kind of like compare him to other villains, you
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: know that we have in the series, and I definitely
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: have like a strong opinion of how I feel about
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: him and compare it to other villains. And so, yeah,
• 7:41
  Speaker 2: I thought it'd be just interesting to kind of go
• 7:43
  Speaker 2: through his life and kind of some of his ideals
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: and I guess see what we thought about it, So
• 7:52
  Speaker 2: kind of starting with his early life from like around
• 7:57
  Speaker 2: like the early eighteen eighties through like the eighteen nineties,
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: it's where this period will cover. So he was born
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: sometime around eighteen eighty two or eighteen eighty three. We've
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: not gotten this like necessarily confirmed, but we'll say sometime
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: around that time.
• 8:19
  Speaker 1: Yeah, And I was trying to look up because I
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: always think it's good to have some sort of context
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: of what's happening in the world when these characters are
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: growing up. So a little bit of historical context in
• 8:33
  Speaker 1: Europe at this time, this is when the Second Industrial
• 8:37
  Speaker 1: Revolution was happening, which really brought a boom in technology,
• 8:42
  Speaker 1: a growth in transport, early telecommunications, in more widespread electrical
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: use during this period in the late eighteen eighties eighteen nineties,
• 8:55
  Speaker 1: there was also a lot of social and political unrest,
• 8:59
  Speaker 1: so depressions caused a growth in the socialist in anarchist movements,
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: specifically in the Austro Hungary region, because we're not really
• 9:12
  Speaker 1: sure where Grenovald lived, but we can kind of guess
• 9:16
  Speaker 1: and speculate somewhere around there. So in that region. There
• 9:21
  Speaker 1: were some ethnic tensions as well during this time period,
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: as non German groups pushed for more rights against the
• 9:30
  Speaker 1: ruling classes, which also kind of comes into play when
• 9:36
  Speaker 1: we see Greynowald's journey here as the villain as well.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, and like you mentioned, while we don't
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: have necessarily like confirmation of like where he was born,
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: there's a lot of like speculation about it being more
• 9:52
  Speaker 2: in central dy at like eastern Europe. We do know
• 9:55
  Speaker 2: that he attended dirm String at least until he was
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: a felled, which we'll talk about a little bit, but
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: that might give us a little bit of a clue
• 10:04
  Speaker 2: to potentially to where he was born and grew up, right.
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: And I mean we know from Malfoy in that overheard
• 10:14
  Speaker 1: conversation on the train where like he says that he
• 10:19
  Speaker 1: almost attended Dramstring or whatever, Like we kind of know that,
• 10:22
  Speaker 1: like you don't necessarily have to live near dorm String
• 10:26
  Speaker 1: to attend it, it seems like. But I would say
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: that's probably much more rare in that like Hogwarts, like
• 10:35
  Speaker 1: these wizarding schools service the region around them more so
• 10:40
  Speaker 1: than like random people coming in. So yeah, I'd say
• 10:44
  Speaker 1: it's a pretty good guess that Grenovald probably grew up
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: somewhere in like Central Europe, Germany, Hungary, Austria, somewhere in there.
• 10:55
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that makes sense too, because we do
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: see that, I guess, of like epic Universe, we see
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: that like reflected as well in you know, our other eatery.
• 11:06
  Speaker 2: We've got our Parisian eatery, and then we have our
• 11:08
  Speaker 2: more like central Eastern European kind of inspired at the
• 11:14
  Speaker 2: Gladwin noir and that is set in that back alley
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: that's supposed to be this like where Grindalald and like
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: his cronies are kind of like hanging out. So I
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: think that we have like a really good idea of
• 11:29
  Speaker 2: his origins in that way, even if we don't have
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: like a confirmation of like he was born in Austria
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: in like December of eighteen eighty two, Like I think
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: we can probably deduce that it was around there, yes,
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: So I mean I think like pretty early on in
• 11:46
  Speaker 2: his life and then obviously throughout his life, Grindelwald definitely
• 11:51
  Speaker 2: like positioned himself to be like a very talented wizard.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: Obviously we'll in a little bit, we'll talk a lot
• 11:59
  Speaker 2: about him and Dumbledore, but I really think if you're
• 12:04
  Speaker 2: comparing people's abilities and talent in magic and wizardry, the
• 12:11
  Speaker 2: two of them are like very on par And obviously
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: Dumbledore becomes known to be, like, you know, one of
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: the greatest wizards, if not the greatest, and I think
• 12:20
  Speaker 2: Grindowald is right up there, like on par with him.
• 12:24
  Speaker 2: And we also know that Grindowald was also a like
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: natural born seer, and this really having this ability is
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: kind of really I think is what pushed him to
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: go on the trajectory of like his entire life, because
• 12:47
  Speaker 2: there's like speculation that like during his youth he had
• 12:50
  Speaker 2: a vision where essentially like he saw himself rise to
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: dominance over the wizarding world, which, of course, as we'll
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: talk through here, was really like a big component of
• 13:04
  Speaker 2: his like quote unquote, I guess political ideology and beliefs
• 13:08
  Speaker 2: and like all the actions that we see him do
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: throughout the rest of his life and during his youth,
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: was also when he learned about the Deathly Hallows and
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: he then saw the quest, which is like what it's
• 13:25
  Speaker 2: referred to when you're you know, on the journey of
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: trying to obtain the helloes and become the Master of Death.
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: So he saw that quest for the Hallows to be
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: a key to fulfilling that vision of rising to dominance,
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: which makes sense, right because you would want those things,
• 13:43
  Speaker 2: you would want to become the master of Death. I mean,
• 13:45
  Speaker 2: to become the master of Death is domination in a
• 13:49
  Speaker 2: lot of ways.
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: I think it's interesting because from what we know of
• 13:56
  Speaker 1: seers and prophecies, like it's very clear that prophecies don't
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: just automatically come true in the Wizarding World universe, like
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: Dumbledore says, you have to act on that prophecy. So
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Grindelwald clearly was like, yes, I'm going to act on
• 14:15
  Speaker 1: this prophecy and then like set everything in emotion. But
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: like he didn't necessarily have to.
• 14:25
  Speaker 2: Right, I think, and I think because I mean, and
• 14:28
  Speaker 2: we'll talk about this a little bit as we're kind
• 14:30
  Speaker 2: of talking about his life and just things he ends
• 14:32
  Speaker 2: up doing. But he's an extremely motivated and ambitious individual,
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: and I think that he probably was always that way.
• 14:43
  Speaker 2: I think if Grindawald went to Hogwarts, he would be
• 14:46
  Speaker 2: a Slytherin through and through. Yeah, And so it doesn't
• 14:51
  Speaker 2: surprise me that he would see you know, and maybe
• 14:56
  Speaker 2: there's it's like, you know, he saw it and then
• 14:59
  Speaker 2: he learned about the he and then it just was
• 15:01
  Speaker 2: like two and two came together of like, this is
• 15:04
  Speaker 2: my destiny to find these and become the master of Death,
• 15:08
  Speaker 2: and then that's how I can rise to dominance over
• 15:11
  Speaker 2: the wizarding world. And it's like the if he hadn't
• 15:15
  Speaker 2: learned about the Hallows, would he have necessarily thought he
• 15:19
  Speaker 2: could fully act on that vision? Did he, to your point,
• 15:26
  Speaker 2: did he see that vision as like a truth or
• 15:31
  Speaker 2: just a potential prophecy? Like it's hard when we don't
• 15:36
  Speaker 2: have enough details about like how old was he when
• 15:40
  Speaker 2: he had this vision or like what was going on
• 15:42
  Speaker 2: to kind of say like, you know, what was his
• 15:46
  Speaker 2: maturity level or something at that when he saw that vision, Right,
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: it's there's a lot of like unanswered questions when it
• 15:52
  Speaker 2: comes to him. But I'm not surprised that just given,
• 15:58
  Speaker 2: like I said, his level of and ambition that it's like, Okay,
• 16:03
  Speaker 2: I see that this is my destiny, and now here's
• 16:06
  Speaker 2: these tools that can get me there.
• 16:09
  Speaker 1: What's really interesting of like I was just kind of
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: thinking about, circling back to the historical context, It's really
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: interesting that during this time, obviously the political movements were
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: movements that were trying to level the playing field more
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: right and not have such a difference between the classes,
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: whereas Grenoval is like, yes, let me be dominant over
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: everyone else and let's make sure there are classes and
• 16:44
  Speaker 1: like there's a superior class and like so yeah, it's
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: interesting the juxtaposition there makes you wonder kind of what
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: his social standing was like in his family.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: I was just gonna say, I wish we knew, because
• 17:01
  Speaker 2: I feel like lots of times when we do these
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: character deep dives, we end up talking a lot about
• 17:06
  Speaker 2: like everybody's upbringing and their families and their family dynamics.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: And I feel like with everyone else we've talked about,
• 17:13
  Speaker 2: we've really found how much their family dynamics have like
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: influenced them either either good or bad throughout their life.
• 17:21
  Speaker 2: And it's so hard with Grinivald because it's like, right,
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: we don't we don't know what that family dynamic is
• 17:27
  Speaker 2: necessarily like. And then it's like it's also probably in
• 17:31
  Speaker 2: a totally different area outside of like you know, Great Britain,
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: which we're so kind of used to that, and how
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: like the magic, like how the Wizering World is there.
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: We don't know a lot about how the Wizarding World
• 17:43
  Speaker 2: is in other countries, yeah, other areas of Europe, and
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: so there's just there's so many things. But like I
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: would wager that there's something about his upbringing or his
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: family dynamic or the area that he grew up in
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: that potentially influenced, you know, influences, especially like what you
• 18:04
  Speaker 2: mentioned about in the kind of like Austria Hungary region
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: and there being some ethnic tensions there, And I mean,
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: I think if that's right where he was growing up,
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: he was seeing that in the Muggle world, and obviously
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: we know, which we'll talk a little bit about later,
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: is that he was also very in tune with what
• 18:23
  Speaker 2: was going on in the Muggle world. So I'm sure
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: that that there was there had to have been something
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: there in his upbringing. I'm just curious if it was, like,
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: was his family of a higher social standing and so
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: he was like trying to keep that and play that out,
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: or was it that his family wasn't so he was
• 18:47
  Speaker 2: trying to go against the grain, so you will, and
• 18:52
  Speaker 2: climb the lad climb the ladder. Yeah, it's.
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: I'm curious too because we know from Harry Potter and
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: from Fantastic Beasts, we know that the way in which
• 19:05
  Speaker 1: wizards and muggles coexist is also a little different by
• 19:11
  Speaker 1: region right globally, So it makes you kind of wonder, like,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: what was that situation like in this area where he
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: grew up.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: I almost think that like it could be even more
• 19:30
  Speaker 2: divided than it was in England and like the United Kingdom,
• 19:38
  Speaker 2: which is kind of crazy because like it already was
• 19:41
  Speaker 2: pretty divided in England and the United I mean, obviously
• 19:45
  Speaker 2: we've got like secrecy laws and stuff like that, and
• 19:49
  Speaker 2: so that was forcing like witches and wizards to be
• 19:52
  Speaker 2: kind of more in hiding, which obviously is we'll talk
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: about is a big deal when it comes to grinovolved
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: and people being in high like which housards being in hiding,
• 20:01
  Speaker 2: but I could see it being even more like strict
• 20:06
  Speaker 2: and like divided in Eastern Europe.
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and from his ideologies, it's much easier to
• 20:15
  Speaker 1: see someone or another group as other, yes, if you
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: are more divided from them and there is no like
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: intermingling going on, right, So that would make a lot
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: of sense.
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: I think, yeah, I would go with that too.
• 20:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And so I mean I think, like really, once
• 20:38
  Speaker 2: Grinibald like kind of discovered the hallows and what obtaining
• 20:43
  Speaker 2: them would mean and all of that, like that really
• 20:47
  Speaker 2: became like an obsession for him, and he really like
• 20:57
  Speaker 2: it really was like, you know, I need to study
• 21:00
  Speaker 2: and learn everything that I can about these three deathly
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: hallows and where they are and how I can obtain
• 21:06
  Speaker 2: them and what it. I mean, it really like obsession
• 21:09
  Speaker 2: is really the best word to describe it. We learn
• 21:13
  Speaker 2: through Rita Skeeter, which again I mean a little bit
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: of an unreliable narrator, I think so, But we learn
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: through her in her book The Life and Lives of
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: Elvis Dumbledore that when Grindovald was at Dermstrang, he started
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: kind of like conducting twisted experiments and like on other
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: students to the point of possibly like almost like killing
• 21:44
  Speaker 2: these students, and specifically so in that book it says,
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: you know about Grindevald that he was educated at Dermstrang,
• 21:55
  Speaker 2: which was a school famous even then for its unfortunate
• 21:58
  Speaker 2: tolerance of the dark arts. Grindovald showed himself quite as
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: precociously brilliant as Dumbledore. Rather than channel his abilities into
• 22:06
  Speaker 2: the attainment of awards and prizes, however, gell At Grindevald
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: devoted himself to other pursuits. When Grindovald was sixteen years old,
• 22:15
  Speaker 2: even derm strength felt it could no longer turn a
• 22:18
  Speaker 2: blind eye to his twisted experiments, and he was expelled.
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: So Rita is obviously suggesting here that she found some
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: kind of information in her her studies for this book
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: that it was very likely the reason that you know,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: Grindovald ends up being expelled from Dermstrang when he was
• 22:37
  Speaker 2: sixteen was because he was performing these not tolerated experiments
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: on other people. And I do think it's really interesting
• 22:46
  Speaker 2: and I think, like you know, her call out of
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: like he was already at a school that had a
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: high tolerance for dark arts, right, which is probably why Malfoy,
• 22:56
  Speaker 2: you know, also thought he was probably going to go
• 22:59
  Speaker 2: to Dermstreng. You're already he's already in this environment that's
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: kind of probably fostering this. I don't know, this interest
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: in the dark arts or I think that like obviously
• 23:12
  Speaker 2: at Hogwarts that they've got defense against the dark arts
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: and they talk about the dark arts, but I feel
• 23:17
  Speaker 2: like it's very much presented to the students in the
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: way of like the dark arts is like bad, whereas
• 23:23
  Speaker 2: obviously at Dermstrang, I don't think it's that type of
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: It's just part of magic. It's part of the visering world,
• 23:29
  Speaker 2: just like happy charms are. We've also got dark arts.
• 23:33
  Speaker 2: But I just am like, what was he doing in
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: these experiments that it became even so dark that Dermstrang,
• 23:42
  Speaker 2: who like again potentially tolerated things to some level even
• 23:46
  Speaker 2: they were like we cannot have this right.
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: What would even be an experiment that a student would
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: try on another student, Like, I don't like, was he
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: trying to develop new spells or new potions? Like what
• 24:02
  Speaker 1: what was he experimenting?
• 24:04
  Speaker 2: I know, I just have a lot of questions about that,
• 24:06
  Speaker 2: And it's especially because like I don't I wonder too
• 24:12
  Speaker 2: if he also, like if he still had, you know,
• 24:14
  Speaker 2: obviously this ideal of like having dominance or like we
• 24:19
  Speaker 2: said earlier, I guess climbing the ladder quote unquote. I
• 24:23
  Speaker 2: mean it seems like, you know, he obviously had this
• 24:25
  Speaker 2: obsession with the Hallows and like what the Hallows could
• 24:28
  Speaker 2: do for them, but it seemed he also was very smart, right,
• 24:31
  Speaker 2: so I think that I could also see him being
• 24:33
  Speaker 2: that type of person to have like plan bs, so
• 24:39
  Speaker 2: also probably realizing that in to obtain the Hallows probably
• 24:43
  Speaker 2: might need to do some not great things to get them,
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: because again, Harry got really lucky with how he ended
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: up becoming in you know, the owner all the Hallows.
• 25:00
  Speaker 2: But yeah, outside of Harry's situation, a normal quote unquote
• 25:06
  Speaker 2: what's your wizard that was trying to find the Hallows
• 25:08
  Speaker 2: I think would have a much harder time. So I
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: don't know if he was just trying to yeah, prepare
• 25:12
  Speaker 2: himself for like what he could face in this quest
• 25:18
  Speaker 2: and just took it out on other people. I mean
• 25:20
  Speaker 2: I think of like when Snape developed Sectum sempra, how
• 25:26
  Speaker 2: did he find out that that's what that spell did?
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: Right?
• 25:30
  Speaker 2: If not casting it on somebody. Yeah, so like, yeah,
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: I mean I don't know if it was in that
• 25:41
  Speaker 2: kind of vein or potentially even worse right, which I
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: don't know how you get much worse than that, but yeah,
• 25:53
  Speaker 2: so either way, we do know that he ended up
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: never graduating DRM Strang.
• 25:58
  Speaker 1: Institute, but he kept his wand.
• 26:01
  Speaker 2: But he kept his wand which again probably differences in
• 26:06
  Speaker 2: the schools. Yeah, I mean, he definitely kept the wand.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: So him being expelled really kind of sets up the
• 26:18
  Speaker 2: next like big part of his life, right and puts
• 26:21
  Speaker 2: him on the trajectory that is really the rest of
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: his life. So after he was expelled, he again, I
• 26:30
  Speaker 2: mean at that point, it's like cool, well, now as
• 26:33
  Speaker 2: that all this time to be on my quest for
• 26:36
  Speaker 2: information about the Hallows and to find the hallows. So
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: that's kind of, you know what. It seems like he
• 26:40
  Speaker 2: really started devoting his time to once he left the school,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: and his quest for the Hallows, of course leads him
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: to Godric's Hollow in England. So we know that Ignotus Peveril,
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: who was believed to have been the first owner of
• 26:58
  Speaker 2: the Invisibility Cloak, was buried in Godric's Hollow, So it
• 27:02
  Speaker 2: makes sense that when you're researching these deathly hallows that
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: Godric's Hollow would come up in your research. So he
• 27:10
  Speaker 2: goes there, and as we know, Bethilda Bagshot also lived
• 27:17
  Speaker 2: in Godric's Hollow and provided a place for Grendevald to stay,
• 27:24
  Speaker 2: and which again makes sense because she is the only
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: family that we know that he has, distant but still family.
• 27:35
  Speaker 2: So he goes to stay with Bethilda, and of course
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: this is where you know, during the summer of eighteen
• 27:41
  Speaker 2: ninety nine, he meets and befriends Elvis Dumbledore, who the
• 27:47
  Speaker 2: Dumbledores are living right there, so it's just natural that
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: they would cross paths at this point.
• 27:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, this whole thing of him going to stay with
• 28:00
  Speaker 1: his grant great aunt is interesting to me because I
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: feel like I had this headcanon forever that it was
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: basically like his parents didn't know what to do with
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: him once he got expelled from Hogwarts, so they just
• 28:15
  Speaker 1: shipped him off to the great aunt, maybe just hoping
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: he would like turn it around somehow and maybe, like
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: I don't know, but it's weird because we really don't
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: know anything about his family and why he would just
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: end up at age sixteen or seventeen be living with
• 28:39
  Speaker 1: a great aunt, Like it's why is he not living
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: with his family other than like obviously he wanted to
• 28:44
  Speaker 1: go to Godric's Hollow.
• 28:45
  Speaker 2: But yeah, well and my question is, like, obviously, right
• 28:49
  Speaker 2: to your point, he was obsessed with the hallows and
• 28:52
  Speaker 2: learning about them and finding them, and so it makes
• 28:55
  Speaker 2: sense that he would end up at Godric's Hollow, But
• 28:57
  Speaker 2: also like where were his parents? Like where, Like where
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: is it that you can just up and go to
• 29:04
  Speaker 2: a totally different country because you're just now devoting your
• 29:08
  Speaker 2: life to finding the helloes like where is mom and dad?
• 29:11
  Speaker 2: Like where is anybody? And we just don't know. There's
• 29:16
  Speaker 2: just no information that at least we know regarding that.
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: And who's related to the bag shops? Like which side
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: of the family tree is this?
• 29:25
  Speaker 2: Because like yeah, yeah, lots of unanswered questions there. But
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: so yeah, So I mean, when, like I said earlier,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: I think grendel Wald and Dumbledore like naturally, had a
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: lot in common, and so it makes at least to me,
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: it makes perfect sense that they became friends. You know,
• 29:47
  Speaker 2: as I said earlier, I think you know, they're both
• 29:49
  Speaker 2: very intelligent, They were both very talented wizards and they
• 29:53
  Speaker 2: both were like very idealistic and both ambitious.
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: Yeah, it was probably difficult for them to find a
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: peer who was kind of on their level. Yes, So yeah,
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: you could see where they would immediately probably click and
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: just have that mutual respect for each other.
• 30:11
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and also just having like conversations with each other
• 30:15
  Speaker 2: that like to your point, they likely never found anyone
• 30:18
  Speaker 2: else that they could have those conversations with, especially when
• 30:22
  Speaker 2: you have certain ideals and ambitions about certain things, and
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: I mean their ideals and their ambitions in this way
• 30:29
  Speaker 2: are not to like the average person would probably seem
• 30:34
  Speaker 2: a little much and not okay, and yeah, whereas they
• 30:43
  Speaker 2: could talk about it with each other, and there was
• 30:48
  Speaker 2: the shared feelings, shared ideals, shared interests, and probably like
• 30:54
  Speaker 2: no judgment. Right.
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: It's almost like you kind of wonder if a lot
• 30:59
  Speaker 1: of these conversations started as like academic, yes, in very
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: theoretical and like I feel like we probably we kind
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: of get that from Dumbledore explaining later kind of where
• 31:16
  Speaker 1: their ideas diverged. Yeah, and it does seem that way
• 31:20
  Speaker 1: that it probably the topics were introduced in a way
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: of like aren't we so smart thinking about this?
• 31:29
  Speaker 2: And then you get comfortable right with each other, and
• 31:33
  Speaker 2: then eventually it takes one person to say something that's
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: maybe just a little too much, and you're like the
• 31:39
  Speaker 2: other person's like, WHOA, okay, yes.
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: So where I thought we were going.
• 31:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you took this maybe a little too far. Yeah,
• 31:49
  Speaker 2: I could see that that's exactly being how their relationship was.
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: And you know, of course it's also been heavily suggested.
• 31:59
  Speaker 2: I would argue just basically confirmed too, but.
• 32:05
  Speaker 1: I would argue to go back to the quote that
• 32:08
  Speaker 1: drove everyone nuts, that it has been explicitly yeah, confirmed.
• 32:12
  Speaker 2: Explicitly confirmed that the two also became love interests during
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: these months, and Dumbledore later referred to these two months
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: that they were just very much entwined with each other
• 32:29
  Speaker 2: like I'm friends, and you know is that he referred
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: to it as two months of insanity. And I really
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: liked that quote because I think that to go from
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: never knowing this person, they come in, move in, you're
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: a neighbor, and then all of a sudden you kind
• 32:50
  Speaker 2: of find you meet somebody who almost like feels like
• 32:53
  Speaker 2: a soulmate, and you have these ideals that are so
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: grand and so big, and you've never maybe talked about
• 32:59
  Speaker 2: with anyone else and then it just becomes all consuming.
• 33:02
  Speaker 2: Like I think that their relationship just probably very quickly
• 33:06
  Speaker 2: became all consuming, like we said, a very different type
• 33:10
  Speaker 2: of relationship for the both of them. I could see
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: the relationship probably taking both of them by surprise, Like
• 33:16
  Speaker 2: I just I just see it being this whirlwind thing
• 33:19
  Speaker 2: that kind of happened very quickly. Yeah, And so during
• 33:24
  Speaker 2: this time, the both of them like really influenced each
• 33:27
  Speaker 2: other as well, and they also made their blood packed
• 33:33
  Speaker 2: during this time, which as we know, ultimately was them
• 33:38
  Speaker 2: swearing never to fight each other. So, like I mean,
• 33:42
  Speaker 2: the Blood Pact alone shows like how intense this relationship was.
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: I have feelings about the blood.
• 33:51
  Speaker 2: Packed, Yeah, telling me, I think.
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: I think that Grennelbald knew exactly what he was doing
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: in that he knew that Dumbledore agreed with him to
• 34:05
  Speaker 1: a point, right, and he knew that he was going
• 34:10
  Speaker 1: to always take it much farther than what Dumbledore would
• 34:13
  Speaker 1: be comfortable with. So the Blood Pact was a way
• 34:16
  Speaker 1: to protect himself because he knew that Dumbledore was fully
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: capable of taking him on correct, so he needed some
• 34:25
  Speaker 1: sort of protection in place for when eventually inevitably they
• 34:32
  Speaker 1: were going to split ways. He knew that's the reason
• 34:35
  Speaker 1: why this blood Pact.
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: Happened, right, And you actually, I mean, I absolutely agree
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: with you because the next question I put in our
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: planning doc here was exactly like, when this whole blood
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: packed formed, do we think that Elvis was manipulated or
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: he truly believed in and shared Grindolbald's ideals fully? And
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: I agree with you that I think that. And we know,
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: and we'll talk about this as we move through Grendelbald's life,
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: but we know that there was some kind of I'm
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: just gonna call it paranoia. I'm gonna say the word paranoia.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: That there was paranoia there from Grindelwald about Dumbledore because
• 35:11
  Speaker 2: exactly to your point, he knew that Dumbledore was really
• 35:16
  Speaker 2: the only wizard who could ever take him on, and
• 35:20
  Speaker 2: that plays a huge role in several things that play
• 35:24
  Speaker 2: out in his life. That will go through is all
• 35:29
  Speaker 2: about how can I protect myself against Dumbledore. So I
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: absolutely believe that the blood Pack was Grindelwald's idea. I
• 35:39
  Speaker 2: think that Dumbledore. Dare I say I think that Dumbledore
• 35:45
  Speaker 2: that maybe this might be a hot take, I think
• 35:49
  Speaker 2: that I do believe that both of them were in
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: love with each other. I fully I believe in the
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: love interest. I believe they were in love with each other. However,
• 36:02
  Speaker 2: I also believe that the nature of that love and
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: that relationship was not equal. I think that Dumbledore loved
• 36:12
  Speaker 2: Grindevald more than Grindivald love Dumbledore, and that Grindovald one
• 36:19
  Speaker 2: percent used that to his advantage, as you said, And
• 36:25
  Speaker 2: I think that once those emotions became mixed in to
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: the whole story, Grindovald had to act exactly as you said,
• 36:37
  Speaker 2: in a way of oh my gosh, this person loves me.
• 36:42
  Speaker 2: I do love him back, but he loves me. And
• 36:47
  Speaker 2: if he ever diverges from what we're talking about in
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: these plans that we're making, or I devolved something he
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: doesn't agree with and he turns on me, I have
• 37:02
  Speaker 2: just shared the most vulnerable, deepest part of my thoughts
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: with this person. I need to protect myself from that.
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: And I don't think that Dumbledore would have thought that
• 37:15
  Speaker 2: same kind of way, because Dumbledore had some dark like
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: like you know. And I think we've talked too about
• 37:25
  Speaker 2: doing a character deep dive on Dumbledore, which I think
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: will be very interesting because I think arguably he is
• 37:31
  Speaker 2: in my opinion, one of, if not the most complex
• 37:34
  Speaker 2: character in the entire story, because he's obviously presented to
• 37:40
  Speaker 2: us as like the good guy, and he is, but
• 37:45
  Speaker 2: like Dumbledore is like a little shady too, and he's
• 37:49
  Speaker 2: got a little bit of a dark side as well,
• 37:55
  Speaker 2: which really came out with this Grindlevald thing. And so
• 37:59
  Speaker 2: I want to believe that, yes, Grindivald picked up on
• 38:03
  Speaker 2: this person does share my ideals and my viewpoints to
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: a degree.
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: Yes, Which I think is the difference, right, is that
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: Dumbledore had a line that he wasn't willing to cross
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: correct and of all did not correct. And I don't
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: I don't think it would be fair to say that
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: Dumbledore was manipulated in any way. I think he knew
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: fully what he was doing, but I think that the
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: the motivation was different.
• 38:41
  Speaker 2: Do you think that like he could have been not
• 38:45
  Speaker 2: like manipulated in the way of like, I agree that
• 38:49
  Speaker 2: he knew what he was doing and he was a
• 38:51
  Speaker 2: willing participant in the Blood Pact, And we'll talk about this.
• 38:55
  Speaker 2: I have a quote I think a little later on
• 38:57
  Speaker 2: that basically like where Dumbledore like midst this that he
• 39:02
  Speaker 2: was very complicent and was very aware. But do you
• 39:06
  Speaker 2: think that like grindel Wald like manipulated his not like
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: manipulated him and his actions, but manipulated the feelings that
• 39:19
  Speaker 2: Dumbledore had for him in a way of I know
• 39:25
  Speaker 2: that I can get him to do this because I
• 39:27
  Speaker 2: know how much he loves and cares for me, And
• 39:32
  Speaker 2: that is kind of a manipulative thing to do, to
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: be like, I know that this person this maybe like
• 39:39
  Speaker 2: this person has professed their love to me, and so
• 39:43
  Speaker 2: now I'm going to take that and that knowledge and
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: like get them to do something like a blood packed
• 39:50
  Speaker 2: and I think.
• 39:51
  Speaker 1: To serve me and protect me, correct.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Because I know that I can get them to go
• 39:56
  Speaker 2: to that place because of the emotions that they have
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: for me. Yes, But I don't. Yeah, I don't think
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: that like grendel Vall did anything shady to manipulate Dumbledore
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: into doing the Blood Pact.
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: It was just the reasons for doing it were obviously.
• 40:14
  Speaker 2: Knowing that he could get him, yeah, to that point,
• 40:17
  Speaker 2: because of and that's why I stand by like this
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: idea that Dumbledore is the one that had the stronger
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: romantic feelings there.
• 40:30
  Speaker 1: Yea, which I think is like it's easy for us
• 40:34
  Speaker 1: to say that because one was clearly the villain and
• 40:37
  Speaker 1: one was more of like the good guy. So like
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: we're naturally going to think that the good guy had
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: more of this ability to love. But I think that
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: that is the case in this scenario. I think that
• 40:52
  Speaker 1: Dumbledore did have more of that lightness in him and
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: that ability to love, and it's him into us throughout
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: the series that love is such a powerful thing and
• 41:06
  Speaker 1: that love is good, and that those.
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: From Dumbledore, those messages come from Dumbledore.
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: And I think and those who have darkness in their
• 41:14
  Speaker 1: soul don't have that ability and therefore don't have that
• 41:17
  Speaker 1: magic that love provides. So like, I think that that's
• 41:20
  Speaker 1: very intentional.
• 41:21
  Speaker 2: Like is he talking from experience? Like you know what
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: I mean? Is it like? And I think what's different
• 41:26
  Speaker 2: to your point is like I think some people would
• 41:28
  Speaker 2: argue that Grendelvald just never loved Dumbledore in that way,
• 41:31
  Speaker 2: that this was a non reciprocal kind of thing, and
• 41:34
  Speaker 2: that I think, But I think he totally did. And
• 41:38
  Speaker 2: I think that Grendelval's a very and we'll talk about this,
• 41:41
  Speaker 2: I guess more is a very interesting villain is that
• 41:44
  Speaker 2: he's not your cookie cutter like bad guy.
• 41:46
  Speaker 1: Yeh.
• 41:46
  Speaker 2: In terms of like, do I think like Valdemore is
• 41:49
  Speaker 2: like actually capable of like loving somebody in that way?
• 41:53
  Speaker 2: I don't do. I think that here I am going
• 41:55
  Speaker 2: to bring up kirch Child because I always thought in
• 41:58
  Speaker 2: an episode. Do I think that like Delphi was a
• 42:01
  Speaker 2: child of love? Not at all? But I do fully
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: believe that Grindovald loved Dumbledore. I think it's just this
• 42:11
  Speaker 2: matter of like who loved more and who. And also
• 42:15
  Speaker 2: I think too that like, even if Grindelvald had like
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: a lot of strong feelings for Dumbledore, they weren't enough
• 42:26
  Speaker 2: to be more than his motivations and his ideals. He
• 42:32
  Speaker 2: was going to like pursue what he needed to do whatever.
• 42:37
  Speaker 2: I don't think there was ever Dumbledore talking him off
• 42:40
  Speaker 2: this ledge or talking him down. And that's where I
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: think that for him, I don't think this love would
• 42:48
  Speaker 2: like conquer all like he just his motivations and his
• 42:52
  Speaker 2: ideals were too strong. And I think the love in
• 42:56
  Speaker 2: the relationship that happened with Dumbledore was probably very like surprising,
• 43:01
  Speaker 2: but it wasn't enough for me to be like, I'm
• 43:03
  Speaker 2: going to give up all of that for you Elvis, right,
• 43:06
  Speaker 2: you know, And I think that obviously there was a
• 43:09
  Speaker 2: lot of like there could have been a lot of
• 43:12
  Speaker 2: barriers of them actually like being together in that way too.
• 43:17
  Speaker 2: Obviously we do see that a little bit more. I
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: think if we also think about what was going on
• 43:22
  Speaker 2: in Elvis's life at this time, it makes perfect sense
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: to me that like if he all of a sudden,
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: like there was a lot going on in his family life, right,
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: like a lot, and so they then have this person
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: come in and become such a close friend and those
• 43:39
  Speaker 2: feelings to develop, like, it just makes sense to me
• 43:42
  Speaker 2: that Elvis would really latch onto that connection with somebody,
• 43:47
  Speaker 2: whereas like, again it's hard because, like we keep saying,
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: we don't know enough about Grindelwald's family and his upbringing,
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: but it seems like it was pretty like absent, and
• 43:58
  Speaker 2: so I think that he would I think he probably
• 44:01
  Speaker 2: did see family and Elvis as well too. But I
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: also see, like we've been saying that, I think the
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: conversations get to a point and then all of a sudden, Elvis,
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: you know, like we said, gets to this point of
• 44:13
  Speaker 2: like whoa, and Grindovald kind of then has to be
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: like who did I go too far, like, and it's
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: just I don't know, I could see it being a
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: very like tricky situation because you don't want to Like
• 44:31
  Speaker 2: I could see it being a tricky situation for Grindelwald
• 44:33
  Speaker 2: in terms of my love and care and friendship and
• 44:38
  Speaker 2: for this person. But really, like my obsession for the
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: last however many years has been this quest for these hallows.
• 44:46
  Speaker 2: And do I give that all up for this person
• 44:48
  Speaker 2: who's asking me to give But I don't even think
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: you know, the problem is, it's not even like Elvis
• 44:52
  Speaker 2: was asking him to give it up, because Elvis was
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: right there with him and willing to go on the
• 44:57
  Speaker 2: quest with him. It's just.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, when that world dominance piece same man, that's when
• 45:07
  Speaker 1: it got too far. Yeah.
• 45:13
  Speaker 2: Yeah, So I mean, like I just said, Dumbledore wanted
• 45:16
  Speaker 2: to join Grenevald in the search for the Deathly Hallows,
• 45:20
  Speaker 2: and they also both had the same ideals of creating
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: like a new order in which like Wizards and which
• 45:34
  Speaker 2: is kind of like were the dominant kind of thing.
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: I think that like Dumbledore. But again I think it's
• 45:45
  Speaker 2: this is also where it like diverged maybe like a
• 45:48
  Speaker 2: little bit, and that I don't think Dumbledore necessarily saw
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: this in a way of like we need to like
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: dominate and like rid the world of the Muggles and
• 46:00
  Speaker 2: like exert our physical dominance. By physical, I mean like
• 46:04
  Speaker 2: magical dominance over them. But also I think that Dumbledore
• 46:08
  Speaker 2: did believe that, which is in Wizards, we're like a
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: little superior. We've got this special thing about us. We're
• 46:16
  Speaker 2: not quote unquote normal humans. I think that Dumbledore did
• 46:23
  Speaker 2: probably feel that way, and that's where they had the connection.
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: But I think that I could see them talking and
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: being like, you know, we need to create this new
• 46:34
  Speaker 2: order and we're witches and wizards are the ones that
• 46:37
  Speaker 2: are ruling the world, Like why are we hiding in secrecy?
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: And I can see Elvis like agreeing with that. But
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: then I think when grendel Wald starts talking about, well,
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: this is how we're going to do it, that's when
• 46:47
  Speaker 2: Elvis is like, WHOA, I didn't sign up to like
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: do all that. Even if I agree with you that
• 46:58
  Speaker 2: we should not be in hiding, right, you can.
• 47:02
  Speaker 1: See where it would be like very appealing to Dumbledore
• 47:08
  Speaker 1: in the situation with Ariana, yes to not have to hide. Grenovald,
• 47:18
  Speaker 1: I don't know what his motivation is and it's hard
• 47:25
  Speaker 1: to know without knowing much about the family, Like, I
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: feel like we're going to keep saying that. But it's
• 47:31
  Speaker 1: interesting because like with Valdemore, we know his blood status, right,
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: and we know the reasons why he hates muggles it
• 47:38
  Speaker 1: stems from his father and all this stuff, But we
• 47:41
  Speaker 1: don't have this information about Grendelvald, Like I kind of
• 47:48
  Speaker 1: assume that he's pure blood from his ideas, but Valdemore
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: has proven to us that we can't really be confident
• 47:56
  Speaker 1: in that assumption. So you don't really know. And I
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: don't know, like what was the trigger that made him
• 48:07
  Speaker 1: want to make sure that witches and wizards are not
• 48:10
  Speaker 1: in secret and that like they're better than muggles, Like
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: what happened there? I don't know. It's hard to know
• 48:19
  Speaker 1: that motivation.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and I think that you know, obviously
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: they both kind of together developed the ideal of like
• 48:29
  Speaker 2: for the greater good, which they both you know, Elvis
• 48:37
  Speaker 2: and Grinovald like used that for the greater good mentality
• 48:42
  Speaker 2: to justify what they needed to do to achieve their goals.
• 48:48
  Speaker 2: And obviously this becomes this, I mean, this is a
• 48:51
  Speaker 2: huge motivation, because that is also what Grenivald uses. He
• 48:54
  Speaker 2: takes this as his motto going forward, is that we're
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: doing this for the greater good. You kind of touched
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: on something here that I had like also thought of,
• 49:03
  Speaker 2: is that you know, they have similar goals. We've talked
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: a lot about that. The motivations and the intentions behind
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: these goals is what really separated them and was different
• 49:14
  Speaker 2: as you just mentioned. You know, we know that during
• 49:17
  Speaker 2: this time Dumbledore was very very like turned up by
• 49:27
  Speaker 2: like what happened to his sister Arianna, and of course
• 49:30
  Speaker 2: it was at the hands of Muggle boys, right, So
• 49:32
  Speaker 2: to your point, there's a clear motivation right there, like
• 49:35
  Speaker 2: why are we letting these non magical people do this
• 49:43
  Speaker 2: to us when we literally have the means to stop
• 49:47
  Speaker 2: them or overpower them. And you know, we know that
• 49:53
  Speaker 2: Dumbledore is plagued by the fact that like he couldn't
• 49:55
  Speaker 2: stop what happened to his sister, and then of course
• 49:59
  Speaker 2: it just ultimately disrupts their entire family dynamics because we
• 50:03
  Speaker 2: know that Papa Dumbledore goes to ask Cavan for taking
• 50:08
  Speaker 2: revenge on the Muggle boys, and there again we've got
• 50:11
  Speaker 2: another situation where we've got muggles who have done something,
• 50:18
  Speaker 2: and of course we don't know exactly what it was
• 50:21
  Speaker 2: that was done, but obviously very bad. And it's like,
• 50:31
  Speaker 2: because we are the ones that have to be in secret,
• 50:35
  Speaker 2: we can't use our magic to stop these things happening
• 50:38
  Speaker 2: to us. And now look at what happened, Like our
• 50:41
  Speaker 2: sister is forever changed. I mean, it's so bad that
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: she suppresses her magic and becomes an obscurial. We've got
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: the dad who's now in askaban for taking revenge in
• 50:54
  Speaker 2: defense of his daughter. And the reason this all happens
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: is because at the end of the day, they're are
• 51:00
  Speaker 2: the ones that are supposed to be in secret. And
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: if you really think of it that way, like I
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: completely understand Elvis's motivation and him wanting to have the
• 51:12
  Speaker 2: power to protect his loved ones. And I think because
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: Dumbledore is good, like we said, right, I think he
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: really saw this as we have the power to protect people.
• 51:24
  Speaker 2: We have the power to stop these bad things happening
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: ning to people and the cruelty that's in the world
• 51:31
  Speaker 2: and all of that, and but we can't do anything
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: about it because we're being forced to hide in secret
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: because where other like and the Muggles, Like, you know,
• 51:45
  Speaker 2: it's like I under I can understand his motivation and
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: like it really came for like the love of his
• 51:52
  Speaker 2: family and the love of his sister. And it goes
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: back to exactly what we were saying that the end
• 51:56
  Speaker 2: of the day for Dumbledore, love is such an important
• 51:59
  Speaker 2: thing for him.
• 52:02
  Speaker 1: Which on the flip side of that, I feel like,
• 52:07
  Speaker 1: because we don't know anything about Grindelwald's family, that to
• 52:11
  Speaker 1: me signals that he's very much independent and kind of alone,
• 52:21
  Speaker 1: so his motivations are less about the people he loves
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: in more selfish reasons. So you have that very like
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: polar opposite, like I want this because this happened to
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: my family and the people close to me, and I
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: want this because it's going to put me in a
• 52:41
  Speaker 1: position of power.
• 52:43
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and I mean I will say, I
• 52:46
  Speaker 2: guess in defense of Grindelwald, I will say that I
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: don't know if his motivations were I think they're much
• 52:56
  Speaker 2: more selfish than Albus's were. Also feel like, and this
• 53:03
  Speaker 2: is where I think maybe Grindelwald and Valdemore differ a
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: little bit. I think that like Valdemore was ultimately selfish,
• 53:12
  Speaker 2: everything he did came down to him and him alone
• 53:17
  Speaker 2: and his immortality and him being on top and nobody
• 53:24
  Speaker 2: could touch him. I truly believe, again just my opinion,
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: that Grindelwald was doing what he did for his own sake,
• 53:37
  Speaker 2: but also how use their words to explain myself here
• 53:42
  Speaker 2: for the greater good of the wizarding world. I think
• 53:50
  Speaker 2: that I do think that he did have I don't
• 53:58
  Speaker 2: think it was just all about him in the way
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: that it was for Baltimore. I think that he truly
• 54:05
  Speaker 2: did not like that wizard kind was having to be
• 54:10
  Speaker 2: suppressed in the shadows and having to be the hidden other.
• 54:16
  Speaker 2: And I think that what he was doing he was
• 54:22
  Speaker 2: He obviously had motivations to be on top, especially when
• 54:25
  Speaker 2: he eventually runs for like political positions and stuff like that.
• 54:28
  Speaker 2: But I do think part of him was trying to
• 54:30
  Speaker 2: do it for the greater good of wizard kind. Now,
• 54:35
  Speaker 2: what we don't know really is did he have some
• 54:38
  Speaker 2: kind of prejudice maybe built in there right like for him?
• 54:41
  Speaker 2: What did that mean? Did you think that did he
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: believe that that only applied to pure bloods? Did he
• 54:49
  Speaker 2: believe that that applied to all which is in wizards?
• 54:52
  Speaker 2: Regardless of their blood status. He just thought that which
• 54:55
  Speaker 2: isn't wizards should be. And it's like and in his defense, like,
• 54:59
  Speaker 2: I and this is why I think villains are so cool.
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: I get that ideal, Like I get that of like
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: we have something so special. We are clearly this is
• 55:14
  Speaker 2: my not how I'm thinking. How I think he thinks, Yeah,
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: is that like we are better, Like we are the
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: superior human here? Why are we the ones that are hiding?
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: Like I understand that mentality, but I think that because
• 55:31
  Speaker 2: he was still a little bit more twisted. Again, I
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: think it really comes down to like the means that
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: he was willing to go to to achieve that that,
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: like Elvis just was not willing to go that far.
• 55:45
  Speaker 2: So yeah, I have a lot of questions about his motivation.
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: I mean it literally could just come down to like
• 55:50
  Speaker 2: what we've been talking about, right, that he just really
• 55:52
  Speaker 2: feels like why are we in the shadows? Why? And
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: I think that that's enough motivation.
• 56:00
  Speaker 1: Or he could have just witnessed small incidents throughout his
• 56:04
  Speaker 1: early life that just really influenced that.
• 56:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean even like becoming friends with like Dumbledore
• 56:12
  Speaker 2: and stuff like that too, and seeing how what happened
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: to like Ariana affecting Dumbledore. That could have played a
• 56:18
  Speaker 2: role too. I could see him using that. I could
• 56:22
  Speaker 2: also see him using that as an example of a
• 56:24
  Speaker 2: way to manipulate Elvis to be like, this is what
• 56:27
  Speaker 2: I mean. If we weren't hidden, and if we couldn't,
• 56:30
  Speaker 2: if we didn't have to hide who we were, what
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: happened to your sister wouldn't have happened. I could see
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: him using that to get to Dumbledore. I mean, we
• 56:38
  Speaker 2: see him use stuff like that the credence crimes of Grindibald,
• 56:42
  Speaker 2: like and everybody with Queenie Queenie. So I'm positive that
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: conversation probably came up, and I'm sure that that was
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: really hard for Elvis because I think, like, yeah, like
• 56:55
  Speaker 2: that's where you get those like gray morally gray kind
• 56:58
  Speaker 2: of characters and that, Yeah, I agree with you, and
• 57:03
  Speaker 2: I think it's just really like fascinating, because yeah, I
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: think just villains are really fascinating, and I think especially
• 57:10
  Speaker 2: villains that kind of have a point are even more
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: interesting to me than like Valdemore, who's just like I'm
• 57:19
  Speaker 2: just bad for the sake of being bad, and I'm
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: it's all me, me, me, and I need to be
• 57:23
  Speaker 2: the only one who's immortal forever, and you will all
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: bow to me because I'm the only one that's a
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: mortal that wasn't Grindelwald's mojo. Like I do truly think
• 57:32
  Speaker 2: that he was trying to do things for the greater good.
• 57:34
  Speaker 1: I do.
• 57:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And actually like again to kind of like compare
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: their ideals and stuff too, like we know that like,
• 57:43
  Speaker 2: for example, like when it came to like their quest
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: for the Hallows, like they each had different kind of
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: motivations for like why they wanted to find them too.
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: So like what we've just been talking about, like Dumbledore
• 57:57
  Speaker 2: really viewed like getting the Resurrection Stone as a way
• 58:01
  Speaker 2: of like returning his family to what it was, and like,
• 58:06
  Speaker 2: you know, because we know he loses his mother and
• 58:08
  Speaker 2: like right, you know, so there's whereas you've got Grindelwald,
• 58:12
  Speaker 2: who's like right, but if I get this Resurrection Stone,
• 58:15
  Speaker 2: I can create this army of like in theory that
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: will like help me with this domination. And I think
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: that's a really good example to show, like we have
• 58:24
  Speaker 2: this common goal of wanting to find the Hallows. But
• 58:27
  Speaker 2: this is where we're diverging in terms of what we're
• 58:30
  Speaker 2: going to do with it once we have it, right,
• 58:35
  Speaker 2: So then this is kind of like so we get
• 58:38
  Speaker 2: to the point where like everything kind of like really changes,
• 58:41
  Speaker 2: and we have Aberforth, you know, learning of his brother
• 58:48
  Speaker 2: and Grindevald's plans to leave Godric's Hollow and in search
• 58:52
  Speaker 2: of the Deathly Hallows and begin their revolution, and Aberforth
• 58:56
  Speaker 2: like very understandably like becomes concerned also a little bit
• 59:00
  Speaker 2: appalled at Elvis's ambition because I think like grendel Vald
• 59:05
  Speaker 2: probably brought out a side of Elvis that was there
• 59:09
  Speaker 2: but had never really flourished before because he never met
• 59:12
  Speaker 2: someone who he could share those ideals with. Yeah, so
• 59:15
  Speaker 2: it makes sense that Aberfourth would kind of be like
• 59:18
  Speaker 2: who are you and what are you doing? And so
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: Aberfoorth like tries to convince Elvis that he can't go
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: searching for the hallows and reminded Elvis that like, you know, you,
• 59:30
  Speaker 2: like you know the care that our sister needs, you
• 59:33
  Speaker 2: can't take her with you, Like are you crazy? You?
• 59:37
  Speaker 2: What are you doing? You know? I just I literally
• 59:40
  Speaker 2: see That's exactly how Aberforth sat it to him.
• 59:42
  Speaker 1: The voice of reason. Yeah, why is that always the
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: younger sibling?
• 59:46
  Speaker 2: It as you know, I'm the Elvis. So like I
• 59:48
  Speaker 2: guess I can't say, but like, yeah, Aberfourth, he probably
• 59:52
  Speaker 2: wasn't the most like eloquent in his words, but he
• 59:55
  Speaker 2: was definitely the voice of Rison here. Yeah. So this
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: whole thing turns into a pretty tense confrontation and Grindovald
• 1:00:08
  Speaker 2: like takes it to the next level like he does
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 2: as always. Yeah, he uses a cruciatis curse on that's
• 1:00:15
  Speaker 2: a little extreme, a little extreme, and now here's what
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 2: you want.
• 1:00:19
  Speaker 1: To do when like, yeah, your partner, when his motivation is,
• 1:00:26
  Speaker 1: you know, I want to protect my family, and then
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: you go and crucio the yep, yep, that makes sense.
• 1:00:34
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think that like I could see Grendovald
• 1:00:38
  Speaker 2: maybe like panicking in this scenario of like I just
• 1:00:41
  Speaker 2: convinced him to come with me and to go with me,
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 2: and I bet you Elvis agreed, and now you've got
• 1:00:47
  Speaker 2: Aberforth coming in and now it's creating this, you know,
• 1:00:51
  Speaker 2: and then you've got Elvis kind of stuck between a
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 2: rock and a hard place. Right, You've got this new
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: friend and partner and you're ready to do this, and
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 2: then now you're reminded of your family and you're having
• 1:01:03
  Speaker 2: to choose, and then it just gets extra complicated when
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 2: your partner, then Crucio is your brother, and like what
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 2: do you do? And so in that moment, like you know,
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 2: Elvis does try to defend Aberforce and that's you know,
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: and so then basically this whole like duel ensues and
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: there's chaos and everything, and we know that in the
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: midst of all of this, Arianna is killed, which is
• 1:01:35
  Speaker 2: obviously a huge turning point for everything. So after this duel,
• 1:01:40
  Speaker 2: Grinovald flees the country. He's blamed for Ariana's death, though
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 2: we never really have any confirmation of who casts the
• 1:01:50
  Speaker 2: spell that ultimately killed her, which I always think about this,
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: and I always think, like, do we think that it
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: was Grinivald that cast the spell that ultimately killed her?
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 1: I don't know that it was, and I don't know
• 1:02:10
  Speaker 1: that it necessarily matters, because regardless of if the spell
• 1:02:17
  Speaker 1: came from Grinniwald's wand he set this into motion and
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 1: he started this by literally physically torturing Aberforth, he absolutely
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 1: carries the blame.
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: Whether relating to that level, to the point of Ariana
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 2: getting involved, even coming out her brothers in this duel.
• 1:02:46
  Speaker 1: And yeah happened.
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean if we want to go, I mean,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: the duel would have never even happened if Aberforth didn't
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 2: come in and say, bro where are you going? Just
• 1:03:01
  Speaker 2: playing Devil's advocate. But yes, I think I think that
• 1:03:05
  Speaker 2: I think that maybe Aberforth started the confrontation. Yes, what
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 2: Grindelwald escalated it.
• 1:03:12
  Speaker 1: Brought the wands into the situation, he brought the weapon.
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: Yes, I am, I actually think that I agree that
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: it does not matter who. I don't even think necessarily
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 2: that her death was like at the hands of like
• 1:03:31
  Speaker 2: I don't even think it has to be at the
• 1:03:32
  Speaker 2: hands of like a Vata Cadavra. I mean, you've got
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: these people throwing spells, this crossfire, there's tons of spells
• 1:03:40
  Speaker 2: that can maim you or injure you.
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 1: Things could have combined, two spells could have hit at
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 1: the same time.
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: You could have been pushed into a brock. Like There's
• 1:03:49
  Speaker 2: so many things that could have happened. And so I
• 1:03:50
  Speaker 2: think that's what makes it hard to really determine. Like,
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: you know, we don't know what the spell was, we
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: don't know who it came from, Like we just don't know.
• 1:04:00
  Speaker 2: And I don't think it matters. I think that could
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: we say all three of them are at fault for
• 1:04:07
  Speaker 2: how that all escalated. I think so. I think some
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: people are more to blame than others, but I think
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 2: that all three of them could be potentially at fault
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: for I mean, escalating to the level that it did.
• 1:04:20
  Speaker 1: Obviously, Alvis carries blame as well, because he could into
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: there were warning signs, and he could have gotten out sooner.
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: He could have understood his responsibility to his family and
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: said no, I'm not going with you. There's yeah, so.
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 4: Blurred in by the lust for the adventure and the
• 1:04:46
  Speaker 4: and the person I think, I think also the person
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 4: blinded by love.
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: He was blinded by love in that moment. Yeah, And
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 2: I do think I mean, this is definitely a question
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: that's still being asked, and I think people still want
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 2: the answer to and we thought we'd finally get the
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 2: answer with the Fantastic These series, and now it looks
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 2: like we're not going to get to that point. But
• 1:05:09
  Speaker 2: I agree with you that I don't think it matters.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 1: I kind of like not having the answer because I
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: think that it is important to the characters that they've
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: gone through their whole life not knowing, Like, I think
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 1: that's very important to how things play out, and so
• 1:05:30
  Speaker 1: it makes sense that we also wouldn't know.
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: I also think that it's good to not know because
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: I think that it's how do I want to say it?
• 1:05:42
  Speaker 2: It's easy. Grindel Wald was the easy one to blame
• 1:05:48
  Speaker 2: because he was the out like he was the outsider, right,
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 2: Like he wasn't the family member. We then know what
• 1:05:55
  Speaker 2: he came to become. He's our villain and I don't
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 2: know if but that doesn't mean that it was him
• 1:06:08
  Speaker 2: just because he was the villain, right, And that's a
• 1:06:11
  Speaker 2: really hard plot point to contend with as a reader
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 2: and to watch the characters go through. If it wasn't Grindewald, right,
• 1:06:23
  Speaker 2: that's heavy, right, And so it's easy to just think
• 1:06:28
  Speaker 2: it with him because he's our villain.
• 1:06:30
  Speaker 1: And I think you get that heaviness with leaving it unknown, correct,
• 1:06:36
  Speaker 1: because that is such mental torture.
• 1:06:39
  Speaker 2: And the guilt that the brothers feel for the rest
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: of their life. Yeah, because they don't know either. I
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: think they recognize in that moment. Okay, it's easy for
• 1:06:47
  Speaker 2: us to blame Gellert because he fled. He's the villain here.
• 1:06:52
  Speaker 2: Look at what he became. But I think deep down
• 1:06:55
  Speaker 2: they all there's this there's this common understanding of we
• 1:06:59
  Speaker 2: don't know who it was. We were all throwing spells.
• 1:07:02
  Speaker 2: It could have been any of us.
• 1:07:04
  Speaker 1: Yes, they all blame themselves, but they all also blame
• 1:07:08
  Speaker 1: each other. Yes, and that's important because that affects the
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: relationships between those characters, but it also affects internally how
• 1:07:18
  Speaker 1: they process and how they go about life later.
• 1:07:23
  Speaker 2: For sure. Yeah, And I think, like, like we mentioned earlier,
• 1:07:29
  Speaker 2: there's a quote that I just wanted to read that
• 1:07:33
  Speaker 2: is from Dumbledore when he talks about his relationship with
• 1:07:36
  Speaker 2: Grindelwald that I think really plays into some topics we
• 1:07:41
  Speaker 2: mentioned earlier in terms of, like I guess, sub blinded
• 1:07:44
  Speaker 2: by the love kind of thing. Right, So he says, Grindelwald,
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 2: you cannot imagine how his ideas caught me, Harry inflamed me.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 2: Just side note, that's a very intense way to describe.
• 1:07:59
  Speaker 2: Like I said, I I think their relationship was just
• 1:08:01
  Speaker 2: like what did he say? Insanity? Insanity, in flame of insanity,
• 1:08:07
  Speaker 2: inflamed me? Like those are deep words.
• 1:08:09
  Speaker 1: It's very passionate, very power.
• 1:08:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, carry on, So Muggles forced into subservience. We wizards,
• 1:08:17
  Speaker 2: triumphant Grindovald and I the glorious young leaders of the revolution. Oh,
• 1:08:23
  Speaker 2: I had a few scruples. I assuaged my conscious with
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 2: empty words. It would all be for the greater good,
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: and any harm done would be repaid one hundredfold and
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: benefits for wizards. Did I know in my heart of
• 1:08:35
  Speaker 2: hearts what Gellert Grinivald was. I think I did, but
• 1:08:39
  Speaker 2: I closed my eyes.
• 1:08:41
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, he says it best, like, yeah, he knew,
• 1:08:49
  Speaker 3: and he knew what he was going along with, and
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 3: he knew it wasn't good, but he kind of just
• 1:08:55
  Speaker 3: wrote it for as long as he could and then.
• 1:09:00
  Speaker 2: And that's a heavy thing too, to like and to
• 1:09:03
  Speaker 2: wait to have to you know, a heavy thing for
• 1:09:07
  Speaker 2: your own conscious as well, because it's like if he
• 1:09:14
  Speaker 2: hadn't formed the blood packed, if he had stopped it earlier,
• 1:09:17
  Speaker 2: if he hadn't gotten so swept up in the moment
• 1:09:20
  Speaker 2: of everything, you know, you have those moments of could
• 1:09:24
  Speaker 2: I have prevented everything that then happened after? And we know,
• 1:09:30
  Speaker 2: and I think we see this throughout, you know, especially
• 1:09:35
  Speaker 2: crimes of Grindelwald and stuff like that as well. Like
• 1:09:38
  Speaker 2: Dumbledore kind of reckoning with this fact of like, you know,
• 1:09:40
  Speaker 2: he says like I can't move against him, like I
• 1:09:43
  Speaker 2: literally can't. And is that a moment? Is that something
• 1:09:48
  Speaker 2: that's a huge moment of regret for Elvis, is that
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 2: moment when you know, we made that blood packed or
• 1:09:54
  Speaker 2: you know, I think maybe it could also be a
• 1:09:56
  Speaker 2: part of him doesn't regret the blood packed because of
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: what it met in the moment and how it felt
• 1:10:02
  Speaker 2: in the moment, And they could have still had that
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 2: blood pack and have Grindovald not become what he was.
• 1:10:11
  Speaker 2: But I also think that if Elvis had never just
• 1:10:16
  Speaker 2: blindly gone with him and done it, it would have
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 2: always ended up that way because of what we said earlier.
• 1:10:24
  Speaker 2: It's like either if you're not with me or against me,
• 1:10:28
  Speaker 2: because they were such equals in a lot of ways. Yeah,
• 1:10:34
  Speaker 2: it's pretty deep stuff. Their relationship is pretty deep stuff.
• 1:10:37
  Speaker 2: So then we transition, so he flees the country, and
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 2: this is when we really see him kind of like
• 1:10:44
  Speaker 2: rise to power. He continues to pursue the plans that
• 1:10:48
  Speaker 2: he had, and so now we're in the time period
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 2: of like the nineteen tens to like the nineteen twenties,
• 1:10:55
  Speaker 2: so Grindovald continues his research in pursuit of the Hallows,
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 2: obviously on his own now without Elvis, and at this
• 1:11:03
  Speaker 2: time too, he's also really focusing his attention on trying
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 2: to find the Elder Wand because of course, right, that's
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 2: like the wand you want to have if you're trying
• 1:11:12
  Speaker 2: to dominate. We see Baltimore also later in pursuit of
• 1:11:16
  Speaker 2: the Elder Wand. So it had been rumored at this
• 1:11:19
  Speaker 2: time that the wandmaker Grigorovitch was in possession of the
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 2: wand was trying to duplicate it. And so that's where
• 1:11:29
  Speaker 2: Grindovald goes, is to Grigorovich And so he goes to
• 1:11:35
  Speaker 2: you know, the workshop, stuns Grigorovitch, steals the Wand and
• 1:11:39
  Speaker 2: thus becomes its new master. So then like basically like
• 1:11:45
  Speaker 2: for all intents and purposes, like all hell breaks loose
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 2: at this moment. So we then enter the era of
• 1:11:53
  Speaker 2: the First Wizarding War. So we're in like the nineteen
• 1:11:56
  Speaker 2: twenties to the like nineteen forty five time. So after
• 1:12:01
  Speaker 2: Grindovald acquires the Elder One, he launches several attacks across Europe.
• 1:12:06
  Speaker 2: He gathers a lot of attention from both wizarding authorities
• 1:12:10
  Speaker 2: as well as the Muggle world at this point, because
• 1:12:13
  Speaker 2: we know that if we've got some people doing a
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 2: lot of stuff in the wizarding world, it does gather
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: attention in curious ways to the Muggle world. Yes, and
• 1:12:24
  Speaker 2: so this became a problem because his actions were now
• 1:12:28
  Speaker 2: risking exposure of the wizarding community as well as just
• 1:12:31
  Speaker 2: war mm hmm. So in response to this, they're an
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 2: international wizard hunt ensues and grindaval does hide at this point,
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: and so then we kind of like get to kind
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 2: of get into like Fantastic Beast movie kind of time
• 1:12:59
  Speaker 2: peer and so there is there does become a time
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 2: towards the end of the year in nineteen twenty six
• 1:13:09
  Speaker 2: where Grindovald was discovered where he was he was almost
• 1:13:14
  Speaker 2: almost captured, but he was able to like kill off
• 1:13:17
  Speaker 2: those for those who come from.
• 1:13:19
  Speaker 1: This is what we see in the beginning of the
• 1:13:22
  Speaker 1: first Fantastic Beasts, right when he is like walking and
• 1:13:25
  Speaker 1: we see the back of his head and then we
• 1:13:27
  Speaker 1: see him like, I guess kill the the oors.
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, And then we get the quote later from Macusa
• 1:13:38
  Speaker 2: President Seraphina Picker late where later she says that she's
• 1:13:43
  Speaker 2: talking to Heinrich Eberstadt. I don't know if that's exactly
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 2: how I say the same, but Heinrich and she basically
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 2: places the blame for Grenovald's escape on him and says like,
• 1:13:53
  Speaker 2: I will not be lectured by the man who let
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: Giller Grenovald slip through his fingers. So so I do
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: think and this is where I think that Grindivald does
• 1:14:03
  Speaker 2: have necessarily like some paranoia. And I don't think that
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: Grindivald has like a god complex like Valdimore has. I
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: think he does realize that he's infailable. And so when
• 1:14:18
  Speaker 2: you get to this point of like realizing that okay,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 2: they are coming after me, I could possibly be captured,
• 1:14:23
  Speaker 2: this is when I think he starts to really gather
• 1:14:26
  Speaker 2: like an army of followers. I don't think that he
• 1:14:31
  Speaker 2: was always like this person who was going to have
• 1:14:33
  Speaker 2: this big followers, like I think like Valdemore was like,
• 1:14:36
  Speaker 2: I need to have this army of people behind me.
• 1:14:39
  Speaker 2: I could see Grindivald like trying to act as this
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 2: like one man show like you mentioned earlier. I think
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 2: he's always been very independent. But when you've got your
• 1:14:49
  Speaker 2: and you get to this level, right, you just kind
• 1:14:51
  Speaker 2: of sometimes get to the point of like I do
• 1:14:53
  Speaker 2: need some kind of like protection, so we start to Yeah,
• 1:14:57
  Speaker 2: he starts to kind of do things to followers. During
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 2: this time, he also establishes the prison in Austria at
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 2: Norman Guard Castle to hold his enemies.
• 1:15:11
  Speaker 1: How does he hold his enemies if he's actively being
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 1: hunted and like wouldn't go to this prison.
• 1:15:24
  Speaker 2: I don't know if they knew though, that like that
• 1:15:27
  Speaker 2: was his prison, because we do see like him at
• 1:15:35
  Speaker 2: like at Norman Guard Castle, like with Credense.
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 1: Maybe they don't know where it is until after.
• 1:15:41
  Speaker 2: The fact, or don't know that he was holding people there.
• 1:15:47
  Speaker 2: I couldn't see it being like an after the fact thing.
• 1:15:49
  Speaker 2: I think that especially to once he was able to
• 1:15:51
  Speaker 2: get like followers. And I think too that he's like
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 2: traveling all over the place and stuff. I mean Baltimore
• 1:15:58
  Speaker 2: like really stuck in likeingand whereas like Grindovald was kind
• 1:16:02
  Speaker 2: of all over the place, which I think makes it
• 1:16:05
  Speaker 2: like trickier. There's a lot of like missing details here
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 2: that we don't really know about certain things here. I mean,
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 2: we know a lot more now because we've got the
• 1:16:15
  Speaker 2: fantastic Beast films that we knew before, but there's still
• 1:16:18
  Speaker 2: a lot of like what exactly was going on in
• 1:16:22
  Speaker 2: all these years when he was kind of just doing things,
• 1:16:26
  Speaker 2: because he also was like murdering a lot of people
• 1:16:29
  Speaker 2: during this time period too, But like you know, how
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 2: do you there's there's a fine line between doing all
• 1:16:36
  Speaker 2: these things and not drawing a lot of attention to
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: yourself because obviously that didn't work for him before because
• 1:16:43
  Speaker 2: he was drawing too much attention to himself before. And
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 2: we do see that, I think, like especially in like
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 2: Crimes of Grindelwald, like we see a lot of like
• 1:16:56
  Speaker 2: things are being done, yeah, and they're being done like
• 1:16:59
  Speaker 2: by his followers so that he can stay kind of
• 1:17:02
  Speaker 2: like hidden and in the shadows a little bit, which
• 1:17:06
  Speaker 2: is really ironic because the whole point of his thing
• 1:17:09
  Speaker 2: is so that people don't have to be hidden and
• 1:17:12
  Speaker 2: in the shadows. So just a little bit irony. But
• 1:17:17
  Speaker 2: so yeah, as we mentioned before, like we know that
• 1:17:20
  Speaker 2: Grendelvald like knew that Dumbledore was like the only wizard
• 1:17:24
  Speaker 2: like powerful enough to defeat him, but they could not
• 1:17:27
  Speaker 2: fight directly because of their blood packed. This is when
• 1:17:30
  Speaker 2: he then seeks an obscurio. And we really see this
• 1:17:34
  Speaker 2: story play out in the first Fantastic Beast film, so
• 1:17:38
  Speaker 2: won't rehash all of that, but we see obviously him
• 1:17:40
  Speaker 2: impersonating on Graves. He befriends Credence, who we know is
• 1:17:45
  Speaker 2: an obscurial, and you know, we know what happens here.
• 1:17:47
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is where we kind of connect the
• 1:17:51
  Speaker 1: dots that Ariana was an obscurial and Grenivald probably was
• 1:17:56
  Speaker 1: fully aware of what happened when she lost control and.
• 1:18:00
  Speaker 2: What eventually do And I could see him thinking, you know,
• 1:18:06
  Speaker 2: you know, Elvis is such a skilled wizard and there's
• 1:18:10
  Speaker 2: really not a lot that can happen here to like
• 1:18:12
  Speaker 2: take him down, but like he's no match against this
• 1:18:17
  Speaker 2: powerful obscurial, Like nobody is, like nobody can control them.
• 1:18:21
  Speaker 1: And not only that, but would Dumbledore want to hurt
• 1:18:26
  Speaker 1: And it's.
• 1:18:27
  Speaker 2: Something that reminds him of his sister.
• 1:18:29
  Speaker 1: Again, I never mind the fact that, like, you know,
• 1:18:31
  Speaker 1: we later learn of the relation.
• 1:18:34
  Speaker 2: But right I think that again, this is where he's
• 1:18:37
  Speaker 2: still manipulating the emotions of Dumbledore. M So it makes
• 1:18:41
  Speaker 2: sense that he would then, you know, seek that. So
• 1:18:46
  Speaker 2: then we get into crimes of Grindelwald kind of territory,
• 1:18:52
  Speaker 2: you know, we see him of course at the end
• 1:18:54
  Speaker 2: of Fantastic Beasts he gets captured again because of our
• 1:18:58
  Speaker 2: boy Newt and just oh, I love that line. I
• 1:19:02
  Speaker 2: love that line. Have no idea what it means, no
• 1:19:05
  Speaker 2: idea what it means, We'll never know, but yeah, yeah,
• 1:19:11
  Speaker 2: I have no interpretation of that. But yeah, so new
• 1:19:14
  Speaker 2: and a nice little Ravellio spell and he gets captured.
• 1:19:18
  Speaker 2: So then like yeah, we transition into Crimes of Grindevald.
• 1:19:22
  Speaker 2: We see him escape from Mkuza that big you know,
• 1:19:25
  Speaker 2: opening scene, and then he once again kind of resumes
• 1:19:29
  Speaker 2: his search for credence and they get credence like on
• 1:19:31
  Speaker 2: his side. And then again won't rehash, but we see,
• 1:19:35
  Speaker 2: we know what happens, and Crhymes of Grindivald. So I
• 1:19:38
  Speaker 2: do want to talk obviously about the pinnacle of this movie,
• 1:19:42
  Speaker 2: which is the rally in the Musleum the Strange Muddle,
• 1:19:46
  Speaker 2: such a scene, such a good scene, and really, you know,
• 1:19:50
  Speaker 2: during this speech that Grindelwald gives we get to get
• 1:19:54
  Speaker 2: such a good insight into his perspective of Muggles, the
• 1:19:58
  Speaker 2: visions that he's having of the future where he warns
• 1:20:01
  Speaker 2: of another war, and spoiler alert, he was right, and
• 1:20:07
  Speaker 2: we just get, yeah, this is our this is our
• 1:20:10
  Speaker 2: biggest clue as readers or in movie watchers, into his
• 1:20:16
  Speaker 2: motivations and his ideals. And so then we then get
• 1:20:24
  Speaker 2: into like Secrets of Dumbledore. We get the reunion of
• 1:20:30
  Speaker 2: like Elvis and Grindelwald in that conversation between them, which
• 1:20:35
  Speaker 2: is a really great scene. We see the fall of
• 1:20:38
  Speaker 2: the Germany Ministry of Magic under the control of Grindelwald,
• 1:20:42
  Speaker 2: his run for political office, the walk of the killing
• 1:20:45
  Speaker 2: chillin how do you say it? Chilling, chill, chilling, Yeah,
• 1:20:49
  Speaker 2: and his declaration of war against the Muggles, and then
• 1:20:52
  Speaker 2: we get that really climactic scene where we have the
• 1:20:55
  Speaker 2: duel between Grindovald and Dumbledore, but not the duel, the
• 1:21:00
  Speaker 2: a duel. We get a duel in that like weird
• 1:21:04
  Speaker 2: university kind of thing where you know, after the blood
• 1:21:07
  Speaker 2: pack is destroyed and they can finally kind of go
• 1:21:09
  Speaker 2: at it, but again it's not the duel. Yeah.
• 1:21:14
  Speaker 1: I think it's so interesting because I feel like he
• 1:21:17
  Speaker 1: was always destined to try and be a politician, just
• 1:21:26
  Speaker 1: from the very very early on, like, here's my vision
• 1:21:32
  Speaker 1: for society, here's how I view the order of things going.
• 1:21:39
  Speaker 1: And then like just being like you said, very I
• 1:21:49
  Speaker 1: don't know how to put it, but like having others
• 1:21:53
  Speaker 1: kind of carry out his vision in doing his bidding
• 1:21:58
  Speaker 1: rather than getting it start.
• 1:22:00
  Speaker 2: And I think that what makes him really good as
• 1:22:02
  Speaker 2: a politician, and what makes him really good as a villain,
• 1:22:05
  Speaker 2: and makes him really good in this role that he
• 1:22:08
  Speaker 2: assumes is that he's a great orator, which we see
• 1:22:14
  Speaker 2: in I mean, I'm captivated in this end part of
• 1:22:17
  Speaker 2: it is like Johnny Depp acting, but like I'm captivated
• 1:22:19
  Speaker 2: in that scene to the point where I'm like, gosh,
• 1:22:22
  Speaker 2: would I join him too? You kind of see, like
• 1:22:25
  Speaker 2: you can understand why Queenie went, Like you can get into.
• 1:22:29
  Speaker 1: That he's very good at laying out stuff in a
• 1:22:34
  Speaker 1: logical way.
• 1:22:35
  Speaker 2: And preventing good examples, providing good examples of.
• 1:22:38
  Speaker 1: It, yes, and withholding the information that needs to be withheld. Yes,
• 1:22:45
  Speaker 1: he did it with Dumbledore. He does it in this
• 1:22:48
  Speaker 1: scene in the mausoleum.
• 1:22:50
  Speaker 2: He does it with Queenie like going forward all their conversations.
• 1:22:54
  Speaker 1: He does it throughout his political campaign, Like, yeah, he
• 1:22:58
  Speaker 1: was always going to be a Polian.
• 1:23:01
  Speaker 2: And I think we really see his like intelligence in
• 1:23:04
  Speaker 2: these moments, because that takes a lot of intelligence. And yeah,
• 1:23:09
  Speaker 2: and I think again, I think what makes him scary
• 1:23:12
  Speaker 2: as a villain is his charisma, because that's how that's
• 1:23:19
  Speaker 2: how there's people in real history that you can compare
• 1:23:24
  Speaker 2: him to. And I do think that, like, probably because
• 1:23:32
  Speaker 2: of the time period of all of this, I do
• 1:23:34
  Speaker 2: feel like Grindelwald and everything that happens there does get
• 1:23:37
  Speaker 2: compared a lot to like Hitler, and I think it's
• 1:23:41
  Speaker 2: a fair comparison. And I think that that was also
• 1:23:46
  Speaker 2: like a lot of people describe Hitler as being a
• 1:23:49
  Speaker 2: very good orator and very good, very charismatic, and to
• 1:23:56
  Speaker 2: me that is terrifying in a villain. Yeah, because you've
• 1:24:03
  Speaker 2: got like people like Valdemore and Bellatrix that are just
• 1:24:08
  Speaker 2: that bleep crazy and you're like, I want to say
• 1:24:12
  Speaker 2: the heck away from them, unless you're you know, also
• 1:24:16
  Speaker 2: yeah bad. But like when you've got these villains that
• 1:24:20
  Speaker 2: are charismatic and speak arguably maybe some truths or some
• 1:24:27
  Speaker 2: things that like people can really relate to. I mean,
• 1:24:30
  Speaker 2: we see Queenie really relating to what he's saying. That
• 1:24:35
  Speaker 2: is how you get people. And then he kind of
• 1:24:37
  Speaker 2: does all these bad things like on the side in
• 1:24:40
  Speaker 2: the sly or has other people do it for him.
• 1:24:42
  Speaker 2: He's not awkwardly evil.
• 1:24:44
  Speaker 1: And what I think is interesting is Grinnelbald, to me,
• 1:24:51
  Speaker 1: understands that in order to achieve anything, he has to
• 1:24:57
  Speaker 1: legitimize what he's doing. And his way to legitimize it
• 1:25:03
  Speaker 1: is to be a respectable quote unquote respectable candidate for
• 1:25:07
  Speaker 1: office quote unquote legitimately because we know when he rigs it,
• 1:25:13
  Speaker 1: win the vote and then be in power, because then
• 1:25:17
  Speaker 1: he can be like, well, what do you mean, I'm
• 1:25:21
  Speaker 1: not going rogue, I'm the government. You voted for this,
• 1:25:27
  Speaker 1: instead of just you know, being this crazy villain who's
• 1:25:30
  Speaker 1: just going to go do his and just like right,
• 1:25:35
  Speaker 1: he instead of going against society and government and he
• 1:25:42
  Speaker 1: works with the system, he becomes the system. And that
• 1:25:48
  Speaker 1: is terrifying.
• 1:25:50
  Speaker 2: Well we see that with Umbrage. I mean, it's very
• 1:25:53
  Speaker 2: similar to I mean a lot of things we're talking
• 1:25:56
  Speaker 2: about here reminds me of things we talked about in
• 1:25:58
  Speaker 2: her character deep Dive. Is that she's not big and
• 1:26:01
  Speaker 2: scary like Valdemore. It isn't this brute force evil. It's
• 1:26:07
  Speaker 2: exactly what you said, it's okay, I'm going to just
• 1:26:10
  Speaker 2: work my way up and become the system, and then
• 1:26:13
  Speaker 2: I'm in the position to enact my ideals and my beliefs.
• 1:26:16
  Speaker 2: Who again, she was very similar. I mean, I argue,
• 1:26:20
  Speaker 2: and I guess I'm jumping ahead to like this comparison
• 1:26:22
  Speaker 2: of them, but she's almost more similar to Grindelwald than
• 1:26:26
  Speaker 2: Valdemore is in this way of I'm doing this for
• 1:26:29
  Speaker 2: the greater good, and I'm going to do it in
• 1:26:33
  Speaker 2: a legitimate way.
• 1:26:35
  Speaker 1: Once you infiltrate the system and put things into law,
• 1:26:40
  Speaker 1: it just becomes how it is and it doesn't become
• 1:26:44
  Speaker 1: some crazy like outside villain force.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 1:26:48
  Speaker 1: So that's kind of what they're thinking, is like, to
• 1:26:52
  Speaker 1: change society, you have to rewrite the rules of how
• 1:26:57
  Speaker 1: it is. To do that, have to be the legitimate
• 1:27:01
  Speaker 1: government that people are actually going to listen to to follow.
• 1:27:05
  Speaker 2: Those rules, right, And I think the best villains do that.
• 1:27:09
  Speaker 2: I mean we also see I mean, like we also
• 1:27:12
  Speaker 2: see it in Star Wars, especially before before Pelpatine becomes
• 1:27:18
  Speaker 2: full on emperor and becomes actually the grotesque kind of villain,
• 1:27:23
  Speaker 2: quintessential villain that then uses force. He's manipulating the strings
• 1:27:28
  Speaker 2: for years and years and years as Senator Palpatine. I mean,
• 1:27:32
  Speaker 2: he famously says, like I am the Senate, what are
• 1:27:35
  Speaker 2: you talking about? Like that, you know, And it's I
• 1:27:37
  Speaker 2: think that that is that is what really makes a
• 1:27:40
  Speaker 2: good villain. I mean, the villains that are pure evil
• 1:27:43
  Speaker 2: and take things by force are also good villains. But
• 1:27:46
  Speaker 2: I think the villains that are extremely compelling are the
• 1:27:50
  Speaker 2: ones that are more like Grindelwald. Yeah, no, very interesting. So,
• 1:28:01
  Speaker 2: like I mentioned too, like around this time, the Second
• 1:28:04
  Speaker 2: World War also begins within the Muggle world, just as
• 1:28:07
  Speaker 2: Grindovald had foreseen, he declares open war around the same
• 1:28:13
  Speaker 2: time as well, Dumbledore is still being very hesitant to
• 1:28:20
  Speaker 2: step in and fully end Grindovald at this point. And
• 1:28:28
  Speaker 2: you know, I think, to go back to our conversation
• 1:28:31
  Speaker 2: of like ultimately like who like killed Ariana and all
• 1:28:36
  Speaker 2: of that, Like, I do think that Dumbledore also saw
• 1:28:40
  Speaker 2: Grindovald as like having more knowledge about what actually happened there,
• 1:28:44
  Speaker 2: but not wanting to confront him and not wanting to
• 1:28:46
  Speaker 2: find out because like I said earlier, right, there's that
• 1:28:49
  Speaker 2: fear of finding out like it wasn't Grindelwald, it was
• 1:28:52
  Speaker 2: actually Elvis who did it right? And Dumbledore says, you know,
• 1:28:57
  Speaker 2: for the most part, says, you know, while I busy
• 1:29:00
  Speaker 2: myself with the training of young wizards, Grindevald was raising
• 1:29:04
  Speaker 2: an army. They say he feared me, and perhaps he did,
• 1:29:08
  Speaker 2: but less I think than I feared him. It was
• 1:29:11
  Speaker 2: the truth I feared. You see, I never knew which
• 1:29:14
  Speaker 2: of us in that last horrific fight had actually cast
• 1:29:17
  Speaker 2: the curse that killed my sister. I think he knew it.
• 1:29:20
  Speaker 2: I think he knew what frightened me. I delayed meeting
• 1:29:23
  Speaker 2: him until finally it would have been too shameful to
• 1:29:26
  Speaker 2: resist any longer. People were dying. He seemed unstoppable and
• 1:29:30
  Speaker 2: I had to do what I could. But a lot
• 1:29:37
  Speaker 2: happened before Dumbledore got to the point of saying I
• 1:29:41
  Speaker 2: can't keep resisting. And I think, like, what do we
• 1:29:45
  Speaker 2: think of Dumbledore in that moment? Or was he being
• 1:29:49
  Speaker 2: really selfish at.
• 1:29:51
  Speaker 1: The hands and kind of cowardly?
• 1:29:54
  Speaker 2: Yep, I agree, and I think he realizes that, and
• 1:30:00
  Speaker 2: I'm sure that's something that is is guilt that he
• 1:30:06
  Speaker 2: feels again, right, I just think there's so much guilt
• 1:30:09
  Speaker 2: in so many things, but it's this, This is something
• 1:30:12
  Speaker 2: that disappoints me about Dumbledore because like what happened to
• 1:30:20
  Speaker 2: like for the greater Good, right, I know that the
• 1:30:24
  Speaker 2: for the greater Good was like, you know, their thing,
• 1:30:26
  Speaker 2: but in this moment, he also wasn't doing what was
• 1:30:30
  Speaker 2: good for the greater good. For the greater good going
• 1:30:33
  Speaker 2: in and destroying Grindebald and stopping him from what he
• 1:30:36
  Speaker 2: was doing, that is what the greater good is good.
• 1:30:38
  Speaker 1: How many lives could have been saved.
• 1:30:40
  Speaker 2: If he just faced just got over it.
• 1:30:44
  Speaker 1: Because what happened already happened. I said earlier, It doesn't
• 1:30:49
  Speaker 1: matter who casts a spell, the end result is the same.
• 1:30:54
  Speaker 2: Mm hm hmm. Yeah. So then we kind of transition
• 1:31:02
  Speaker 2: into like the end of Grindevald's life right in his
• 1:31:05
  Speaker 2: fall from power. So as we just mentioned, eventually Dumbledore
• 1:31:09
  Speaker 2: comes to his senses and stops it. In nineteen forty five,
• 1:31:14
  Speaker 2: we have the Duel of Duels between Grindovald and Dumbledore
• 1:31:19
  Speaker 2: in what is often described as the greatest duel ever
• 1:31:22
  Speaker 2: fought between wizards. Still very mad that we're not going
• 1:31:25
  Speaker 2: to be able to see this on screen, but I digress.
• 1:31:30
  Speaker 2: So even though Grindvald had the elder wand Dumbledore was
• 1:31:33
  Speaker 2: still able to win the duel because at the end
• 1:31:36
  Speaker 2: of the day, Dumbledore is still the better, more skilled
• 1:31:39
  Speaker 2: wizard of the two of them. And then obviously this
• 1:31:42
  Speaker 2: is when Dumbledore then becomes the Master of the Elder
• 1:31:44
  Speaker 2: Wand so we know that Grindelwald is defeated, not killed
• 1:31:51
  Speaker 2: at the hand of Dumbledore. Grindelwald very ironically becomes imprison
• 1:31:57
  Speaker 2: at Norman Guard and he remains there for the rest
• 1:32:02
  Speaker 2: of his life, which is a very long time to
• 1:32:07
  Speaker 2: live in a prison.
• 1:32:10
  Speaker 1: Nineteen ninety eight, Like, yes.
• 1:32:13
  Speaker 2: And because of that though, so and when I was
• 1:32:16
  Speaker 2: researching everything, you know, it's there is a lot of
• 1:32:21
  Speaker 2: speculation that, like in this time, that he was sitting
• 1:32:24
  Speaker 2: there and reflecting on everything in his life, and that
• 1:32:28
  Speaker 2: he started to reevaluate his actions and the war, and
• 1:32:34
  Speaker 2: that he perhaps had expressed some shame and remorse for
• 1:32:37
  Speaker 2: his actions. And I think this is also where he
• 1:32:39
  Speaker 2: differs from other villains in that I don't ever see
• 1:32:43
  Speaker 2: a villain like Valtimore ever ever feeling shame or remorse
• 1:32:47
  Speaker 2: in any way. But I can absolutely see Grindelwald feeling that.
• 1:32:51
  Speaker 2: Especially I think Dumbledore could really be the driving force
• 1:32:57
  Speaker 2: for his remorse. I mean because I again going back
• 1:33:02
  Speaker 2: to what we said earlier, I think there was true
• 1:33:04
  Speaker 2: love there and to have this ultimate ending of endings
• 1:33:09
  Speaker 2: be with him, and I'm sure that was so that
• 1:33:13
  Speaker 2: was such a duel of emotion as well of everything else,
• 1:33:22
  Speaker 2: and I don't know, maybe it reminded him of what
• 1:33:23
  Speaker 2: they what they could have been, what their front, what
• 1:33:25
  Speaker 2: their relationship could have been. And now look at where
• 1:33:29
  Speaker 2: they are or where he is. Was it all worth
• 1:33:32
  Speaker 2: it in the end? And so then we get to
• 1:33:38
  Speaker 2: jump forward to nineteen ninety eight where Lord Valdemore finds
• 1:33:46
  Speaker 2: Grindevald in his prison cell because now Valdemore is obviously
• 1:33:50
  Speaker 2: in search for the Elder One to be able to
• 1:33:52
  Speaker 2: defeat Harry, and Grindovald like kind of like stands up
• 1:34:00
  Speaker 2: to like, you know, and he's just like, no, I'm
• 1:34:02
  Speaker 2: not giving you the location of the elder wand and
• 1:34:06
  Speaker 2: he's he just becomes very resolved, you know, he says,
• 1:34:11
  Speaker 2: kill me. Then I welcome death, but my death will
• 1:34:14
  Speaker 2: not bring you what you seek. That wand will never
• 1:34:17
  Speaker 2: ever be yours. And I do think this is very
• 1:34:20
  Speaker 2: important because you've got a villain telling another. I mean,
• 1:34:23
  Speaker 2: I don't think he's a villain anymore at this point.
• 1:34:25
  Speaker 2: But that you've got this villain telling another villain, I
• 1:34:30
  Speaker 2: will not help you and what you want it will
• 1:34:33
  Speaker 2: never be yours.
• 1:34:34
  Speaker 1: It's not going to work out the way you think
• 1:34:36
  Speaker 1: it's going to work out.
• 1:34:37
  Speaker 2: Take it from me. Look at where I am right.
• 1:34:42
  Speaker 2: And I think that this could also be some evidence
• 1:34:45
  Speaker 2: of his remorse and stuff that he felt.
• 1:34:47
  Speaker 1: I also see this as protection over Dumbledore.
• 1:34:52
  Speaker 2: Yes, because he.
• 1:34:54
  Speaker 1: Knows that the Wand is with Dumbledore. He doesn't want
• 1:34:58
  Speaker 1: Voldemort going after Dumbledore at this point, Like I would
• 1:35:01
  Speaker 1: assume that he knows that Dumbledore is dead. If he doesn't,
• 1:35:07
  Speaker 1: then this is a protection of he doesn't want Dumbledore
• 1:35:10
  Speaker 1: to be killed by Valdemort for the Wand. But if
• 1:35:13
  Speaker 1: he does know that Dumbledore is dead, he probably assumes
• 1:35:17
  Speaker 1: that Wand is buried with Dumbledore and doesn't want that
• 1:35:21
  Speaker 1: disrespect of Valdemart going to his grave.
• 1:35:26
  Speaker 2: And I think that this is really pivotal because like
• 1:35:29
  Speaker 2: you would assume that a big bad villain would want
• 1:35:33
  Speaker 2: to help another big bad villain. But I think that
• 1:35:36
  Speaker 2: exactly your point, Like I think that this is out
• 1:35:40
  Speaker 2: of affection for Dumbledore. Yeah, I do think this is
• 1:35:44
  Speaker 2: a sign of his remorse. I do think this is
• 1:35:46
  Speaker 2: a sign of his change of opinion.
• 1:35:48
  Speaker 1: I do think too. And we can get into this
• 1:35:50
  Speaker 1: more when you kind of ask the question grinnell Wald
• 1:35:54
  Speaker 1: versus Valdemart. But I do think there are fundamental differences
• 1:35:59
  Speaker 1: in their ideology as well that are similar on the surface.
• 1:36:02
  Speaker 1: But I think there's things that Valdemort wants and things
• 1:36:08
  Speaker 1: that Valdemort does that are even crossing the line for Grinifald.
• 1:36:12
  Speaker 2: I don't think.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 1: I don't.
• 1:36:13
  Speaker 2: I agree. I don't think he'd be a supporter. I
• 1:36:15
  Speaker 2: don't think Grendovald would be a supporter of Baltimore.
• 1:36:17
  Speaker 1: Grinivald, I think fully, like you said, believed what he
• 1:36:21
  Speaker 1: was doing was quote for the greater good, and I
• 1:36:24
  Speaker 1: think that he would look at Baltimore in his regime
• 1:36:28
  Speaker 1: and be like, hmm, that's not the.
• 1:36:32
  Speaker 2: Way that I like helping.
• 1:36:35
  Speaker 1: Are causing problems, you are hurting other wizards. You are like, yeah,
• 1:36:41
  Speaker 1: I think there's a difference in what they wanted.
• 1:36:46
  Speaker 2: I think there's a difference in what they want. And
• 1:36:48
  Speaker 2: I think to the point you made earlier, I think
• 1:36:50
  Speaker 2: that in that time, Grindelwald had a lot of reflection
• 1:36:54
  Speaker 2: and realizing that he did some dumb things in his
• 1:36:58
  Speaker 2: youth too, and now seeing Baltimore doing those same things. Yeah,
• 1:37:06
  Speaker 2: I don't know, it's very interesting, and I do love
• 1:37:09
  Speaker 2: that we get this kind of clash of these two
• 1:37:14
  Speaker 2: two big villains that we know he is a yeah, yeah,
• 1:37:20
  Speaker 2: but I mean, I guess ultimately like Baltimore has the
• 1:37:22
  Speaker 2: last laugh because he kills Grindlevald using the killing curse
• 1:37:27
  Speaker 2: in this moment, and then of course we know how
• 1:37:29
  Speaker 2: it ends up, he does end up still getting the
• 1:37:31
  Speaker 2: elder one. Yeah, So that's I mean, the life of
• 1:37:40
  Speaker 2: Grendelvald that we know. There's obviously, yes, yes, there's obviously
• 1:37:45
  Speaker 2: a lot of things we don't know. There's a lot
• 1:37:47
  Speaker 2: of like speculation obviously, and we've speculated a lot. But
• 1:37:50
  Speaker 2: I think just I think a very interesting character. And
• 1:37:54
  Speaker 2: I know that we've touched on this a lot kind
• 1:37:56
  Speaker 2: of throughout our discussion, but I think that, yeah, I
• 1:37:59
  Speaker 2: wanted to add the question, like who do we think
• 1:38:02
  Speaker 2: is worse in the end, grendel valdor Valdemore.
• 1:38:07
  Speaker 1: I think scariest and most probable for like actually getting
• 1:38:16
  Speaker 1: where they want to go and doing the damage is
• 1:38:18
  Speaker 1: Grenivald worst I think is Valdemore, right, I just I mean,
• 1:38:30
  Speaker 1: like I already alluded to, like, I think Valdemore also
• 1:38:35
  Speaker 1: believed in wizards rolling over muggles, but he took it
• 1:38:38
  Speaker 1: a step farther to include blood status as well, and
• 1:38:45
  Speaker 1: there were a lot of things that he wasn't afraid
• 1:38:50
  Speaker 1: to do and things that he didn't need to mask
• 1:38:54
  Speaker 1: over in the way that Grenivald did that he just
• 1:38:57
  Speaker 1: flat out would just do. Yeah, which is yeah. But
• 1:39:04
  Speaker 1: like I said, Grindevald being I guess, for lack of
• 1:39:11
  Speaker 1: a better word, a more tame villain is arguably a
• 1:39:19
  Speaker 1: little bit scarier in that it's easier for him to
• 1:39:24
  Speaker 1: get people on his side to get what he wants
• 1:39:27
  Speaker 1: because it is a little more realistic and not so obvious.
• 1:39:34
  Speaker 2: Yes, so yeah, I mean I think that I've probably
• 1:39:38
  Speaker 2: like answered how I feel like about it a little bit,
• 1:39:41
  Speaker 2: but I think that I agree. I think that ultimately
• 1:39:46
  Speaker 2: I find Grendelvald to be the scarier villain. I think
• 1:39:55
  Speaker 2: Valdemore is arguably worse, and that he's like pure evil
• 1:40:02
  Speaker 2: and Grindleval is not guilty either, right, like he has
• 1:40:06
  Speaker 2: blood on his hands as well. I think of when
• 1:40:10
  Speaker 2: we if I remember, right, I think we did this
• 1:40:12
  Speaker 2: kind of same comparison between like Umbrage and Valdemore. And
• 1:40:16
  Speaker 2: obviously the difference was she's got like no like true
• 1:40:18
  Speaker 2: blood on her hands like grindelval does, right, and he
• 1:40:21
  Speaker 2: has killed people. So I think they're more equal in
• 1:40:25
  Speaker 2: that way than comparing like Umbradge as a villain to them. Right,
• 1:40:31
  Speaker 2: But I like agree, like with Baltimore, like you know
• 1:40:35
  Speaker 2: what you're getting, Like he acts evil, he looks evil,
• 1:40:38
  Speaker 2: he talks evil. You just see him walking down the street.
• 1:40:41
  Speaker 2: You know that person's evil. You're like you expect him
• 1:40:44
  Speaker 2: to do evil things. He does evil things, you don't
• 1:40:47
  Speaker 2: question it. He's scary and that he's so unhinged, right, and.
• 1:40:52
  Speaker 1: Like if he lots the room, I'm going to be like, well,
• 1:40:54
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna die right now. He's just gonna kill. Oh yeah,
• 1:40:57
  Speaker 1: would walk in and I'd kind of be like he's
• 1:41:00
  Speaker 1: probably gonna try to like talk me into his side,
• 1:41:05
  Speaker 1: Like yeah.
• 1:41:06
  Speaker 2: I mean, and I don't think because I think he
• 1:41:08
  Speaker 2: was more he was more calculated in his killing I
• 1:41:16
  Speaker 2: think than Baltimore. And I can see Baltimore just killing
• 1:41:20
  Speaker 2: to kill. I mean he did, I mean create the
• 1:41:23
  Speaker 2: whole creation of horcrepsis is literally to kill, to kill,
• 1:41:27
  Speaker 2: where Grindelbald I could see being more like I mean,
• 1:41:31
  Speaker 2: think about like the rally, Right, he didn't go into
• 1:41:35
  Speaker 2: that like I'm gonna kill you all. That was not
• 1:41:39
  Speaker 2: at all. And at the end of the day it
• 1:41:43
  Speaker 2: was like, I'm giving you the choice to join me
• 1:41:47
  Speaker 2: or this fire of truth will decide your fate. Like
• 1:41:53
  Speaker 2: whereas I could see exactly what you said, Baltimore walks
• 1:41:55
  Speaker 2: into a room and he's just gonna avat a cadaverra
• 1:41:59
  Speaker 2: the place for the fun of it. I don't see
• 1:42:03
  Speaker 2: Grendaval doing that. It's more I don't think that he
• 1:42:06
  Speaker 2: would want to spill wizard blood for no reason, right,
• 1:42:12
  Speaker 2: And you mentioned that too before about like in Voldemort's quest,
• 1:42:16
  Speaker 2: so many witches and wizards were getting caught in the
• 1:42:21
  Speaker 2: crossfire of it. But there is something about that charismatic, ambitious, manipulative, persuasive,
• 1:42:34
  Speaker 2: very skilled at speaking, very articulate. There's something very scary
• 1:42:40
  Speaker 2: about that type of villain.
• 1:42:43
  Speaker 1: I think the scary thing about that type of villain
• 1:42:46
  Speaker 1: isn't necessarily the villain themselves, but what they can convince
• 1:42:52
  Speaker 1: hordes of other people to do with their words. So
• 1:42:56
  Speaker 1: then it becomes you're not just dealing with this one
• 1:42:59
  Speaker 1: singular villain, You're dealing with a sect of society that
• 1:43:09
  Speaker 1: that is going to carry out what they.
• 1:43:11
  Speaker 2: Want, right, And I think the arguably too. What's scarier
• 1:43:20
  Speaker 2: about it is that like he wasn't I'm not going
• 1:43:30
  Speaker 2: to say that he had a point because I don't
• 1:43:32
  Speaker 2: agree with that. But like we said earlier, his motivation,
• 1:43:37
  Speaker 2: right was I want my people to be out of hiding.
• 1:43:43
  Speaker 1: And on the surface, right, that sounds good, right, but.
• 1:43:48
  Speaker 2: That doesn't sound but unfortunately, what it means for them
• 1:43:54
  Speaker 2: to be out of hiding, what it means for them
• 1:43:57
  Speaker 2: to be dominant over muggles. The fact that he is
• 1:44:00
  Speaker 2: kind of doing this us versus them, that's the problematic
• 1:44:06
  Speaker 2: part of it. But on the surface, like like, like
• 1:44:12
  Speaker 2: I keep saying, I understand, I can understand Queeney's thought
• 1:44:16
  Speaker 2: process in walking through that circle and joining him. Obviously,
• 1:44:20
  Speaker 2: she then got there and saw behind the scenes of
• 1:44:23
  Speaker 2: some things and was like, okay, she was personally you
• 1:44:27
  Speaker 2: know me, she was persuaded by what he was saying
• 1:44:31
  Speaker 2: in that moment. And I think again, the fact that
• 1:44:35
  Speaker 2: he was like a seer, and he was telling people
• 1:44:39
  Speaker 2: things that were actually happening, you know, and think of
• 1:44:42
  Speaker 2: that really great scene and he's showing them scenes of
• 1:44:45
  Speaker 2: World War and Hiroshima and things that happened, And like,
• 1:44:51
  Speaker 2: I could see people putting very easily putting their faith
• 1:44:55
  Speaker 2: and their trust in somebody who's not fully lying to them, right,
• 1:45:01
  Speaker 2: And that's scary because exactly what you said, Baltimore is
• 1:45:06
  Speaker 2: scary because of what he physically can do and what
• 1:45:11
  Speaker 2: he's physically willing to do, able to do, has no
• 1:45:14
  Speaker 2: remorse doing. Grindelwald is scary because he has the ability
• 1:45:20
  Speaker 2: to really gather a following. Yes, Baltimore had a following two,
• 1:45:26
  Speaker 2: but did they really know what they were even following?
• 1:45:30
  Speaker 2: Like all the people that were following Baldemore for what
• 1:45:34
  Speaker 2: he was all about himself. The whole thing was selfish, right,
• 1:45:37
  Speaker 2: You wanted a world where you could just be bad
• 1:45:40
  Speaker 2: and just do bad things. But like Grindelwald had a purpose,
• 1:45:45
  Speaker 2: a point, a motivation of this is how I'm going
• 1:45:48
  Speaker 2: to better your life, and that is scary. So yeah,
• 1:45:55
  Speaker 2: I don't know if we actually answered the question of
• 1:45:57
  Speaker 2: like who's worse.
• 1:45:58
  Speaker 1: I don't know if there really is an answer.
• 1:46:01
  Speaker 2: It's not as clear as it was with Onmbridge. I
• 1:46:03
  Speaker 2: don't think. I think it's also not as clear as
• 1:46:06
  Speaker 2: it is with someone like Bellatrick. I think what's interesting
• 1:46:13
  Speaker 2: about comparing Grendevald and Valdemore though, is like or maybe
• 1:46:16
  Speaker 2: the more interesting comparison is like Grendelvald and Tom Riddle. Mm,
• 1:46:23
  Speaker 2: because I do see Tom Riddle and Valdemore as like
• 1:46:28
  Speaker 2: obviously two sides of the same coin, but their styles
• 1:46:32
  Speaker 2: are very different.
• 1:46:33
  Speaker 1: Yes, I see that exactly, like Tom Riddle would be
• 1:46:37
  Speaker 1: the more persuasive, charismatic, good looking mm hmm. Yeah.
• 1:46:43
  Speaker 2: Or you could you see like a young Geller at
• 1:46:47
  Speaker 2: Grendivald and a young Tom Riddle really teaming up. Yes,
• 1:46:52
  Speaker 2: but then it's like unfortunately similar, like as Baltimore is
• 1:46:58
  Speaker 2: everything happened to Tom Riddle and he morphed into Baltimore and
• 1:47:02
  Speaker 2: became this completely unhuman thing. I think that's where it
• 1:47:09
  Speaker 2: would have divulged for Grindelwald.
• 1:47:14
  Speaker 1: Yes, I think it would have had the same outcome
• 1:47:17
  Speaker 1: as grindovalden Dumbledore and how that's splintered. I think a
• 1:47:22
  Speaker 1: Grinavald and Tom Riddle would have also splintered for the
• 1:47:26
  Speaker 1: same reasons, and that one of that would have been
• 1:47:29
  Speaker 1: going farther than the other was necessarily comfortable with m
• 1:47:36
  Speaker 1: just to a different extreme because obviously Grinda Wald and
• 1:47:39
  Speaker 1: Baltimore were pretty willing to go pretty darn far so.
• 1:47:44
  Speaker 2: But yeah, hmm, yeah, well, I mean I think that
• 1:47:54
  Speaker 2: I'm glad we talked about little Grindy here because I
• 1:47:59
  Speaker 2: think he's I think he's a very interesting character. And
• 1:48:04
  Speaker 2: like I said, I'm so really sad at what happened
• 1:48:07
  Speaker 2: with Fantastic Beasts because I was one of the people
• 1:48:10
  Speaker 2: that was really excited when the story started taking the
• 1:48:15
  Speaker 2: turn of being about Dumbledore and Grindewald, Like that's the
• 1:48:18
  Speaker 2: story that I want, Like, I want to explore that relationship.
• 1:48:21
  Speaker 2: I loved that. I wanted to see the duel in
• 1:48:23
  Speaker 2: the end.
• 1:48:25
  Speaker 1: How cool would it have been in the Last Fantastic
• 1:48:28
  Speaker 1: Beast movie after the duel happens, Grenavald Is defeated and
• 1:48:33
  Speaker 1: imprisoned an end credit scene of Valdemort going into the
• 1:48:40
  Speaker 1: prison cell.
• 1:48:42
  Speaker 2: Yes, like we flash forward.
• 1:48:45
  Speaker 1: That would be amazing. That is an end credit scene.
• 1:48:49
  Speaker 1: And then like you could then like go watch Deathly House,
• 1:48:54
  Speaker 1: like oh.
• 1:48:55
  Speaker 2: Perfect sold and so yeah, I mean we were robbed,
• 1:49:02
  Speaker 2: absolutely robbed. They didn't do this for the greater good.
• 1:49:06
  Speaker 1: They did not not do it for the greater good.
• 1:49:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah. I also believe I could totally see Dumbledore going
• 1:49:18
  Speaker 2: to visit Grindelwald in his cell at some point in
• 1:49:22
  Speaker 2: those years that he was there.
• 1:49:26
  Speaker 3: Be interesting.
• 1:49:27
  Speaker 2: I would love to see that in that conversation. And
• 1:49:32
  Speaker 2: does Grindelwald eventually forgive Dumbledore for what Dumbledore had to do?
• 1:49:38
  Speaker 2: Does he? I think Grindovald could have an understanding what
• 1:49:43
  Speaker 2: Dumbledore had to do, because obviously, right we see him
• 1:49:45
  Speaker 2: so afraid that Dumbledore is gonna he's he's doing things
• 1:49:50
  Speaker 2: to actively defeat Dumbledore's before Dumbledore can come for him. Yeah,
• 1:49:55
  Speaker 2: so I could see there being this understanding. And I
• 1:49:58
  Speaker 2: just think about like that scene we get at the
• 1:50:01
  Speaker 2: beginning of Secrets of Dumbledore with them at the table
• 1:50:03
  Speaker 2: and talking and just that and there like later like I.
• 1:50:09
  Speaker 1: Want to see, like looking back on it, old.
• 1:50:11
  Speaker 2: Man Dumbledore and old man Grindevald, like there's just so many,
• 1:50:15
  Speaker 2: so many things that could have happened there that. Yeah,
• 1:50:20
  Speaker 2: but yeah, that's Gellert Grinivald.
• 1:50:31
  Speaker 1: Specialis Okay, So for this segment of specialis Velio. We
• 1:50:44
  Speaker 1: are going to talk about the etymology of Gellert Grindovald's name.
• 1:50:49
  Speaker 1: So obviously we speculated a little bit on where Grinivald
• 1:50:55
  Speaker 1: probably was born and grew up. The etymology definitely points
• 1:51:02
  Speaker 1: to us being correct in our assumption. So Geller is
• 1:51:08
  Speaker 1: of Hungarian origin. It's also the German version of the
• 1:51:14
  Speaker 1: name Gerard. So also obviously Geller is his first name,
• 1:51:24
  Speaker 1: but if it was a surname, it's a variant of Geller.
• 1:51:29
  Speaker 1: If you break down the elements of Geller, we've got
• 1:51:33
  Speaker 1: gar or gerr, which means spear or lance. Well, heart
• 1:51:39
  Speaker 1: means hearty, brave, or strong, so we've got kind of
• 1:51:46
  Speaker 1: weapons in the name already. That's typically a sign of
• 1:51:51
  Speaker 1: some sort of war or violence going on. Later, then
• 1:51:57
  Speaker 1: moving on to the last name of grimnal Wald. Grenovald
• 1:52:01
  Speaker 1: is a real village in the Swiss Alps and it's
• 1:52:05
  Speaker 1: located in the Canton of Berne in Switzerland. The village
• 1:52:11
  Speaker 1: was first mentioned in text in eleven forty six, so
• 1:52:18
  Speaker 1: is quite old. So the name Grenovald is most likely
• 1:52:25
  Speaker 1: derived from the Old High German words Grindl meaning bar
• 1:52:29
  Speaker 1: or barrier, and walt, which means forest, which makes sense
• 1:52:34
  Speaker 1: in terms of the location of Grenovald the village because
• 1:52:39
  Speaker 1: of the way the Alps fries around it. It creates
• 1:52:41
  Speaker 1: this like natural barrier around the village for our Grenovald character.
• 1:52:49
  Speaker 1: The best I can think is maybe he's a barrier
• 1:52:52
  Speaker 1: that Dumbledore has to get through, kind of like a
• 1:52:54
  Speaker 1: trial in a way. That's the only way I could
• 1:52:59
  Speaker 1: think to tie that in.
• 1:53:00
  Speaker 2: But yeah, interesting, it's annoy So in our last episode,
• 1:53:12
  Speaker 2: we asked what spell do you wish you could cast
• 1:53:15
  Speaker 2: in your daily life, and Jerry shared that she thinks
• 1:53:19
  Speaker 2: the spell she would most want to be able to
• 1:53:21
  Speaker 2: use in the Muggle world is the extension charm. I agree, Jerry.
• 1:53:26
  Speaker 2: Jerry said, to be able to allow a small car
• 1:53:29
  Speaker 2: to see lots of people, to let a small bag
• 1:53:31
  Speaker 2: hold an entire library and lots of supplies, to let
• 1:53:34
  Speaker 2: a small case hold a workshop, and environments for lots
• 1:53:37
  Speaker 2: of wonderful pets and beasts and friends, and so much more.
• 1:53:41
  Speaker 2: Jerry also said, a park bag that holds everything I need.
• 1:53:45
  Speaker 2: I totally agree with that, And to have it be
• 1:53:48
  Speaker 2: just like a small little fanny pack, but it holds
• 1:53:50
  Speaker 2: everything that you need. So it can still, Jerry said.
• 1:53:56
  Speaker 2: Also a carry on that holds everything for the trip.
• 1:53:59
  Speaker 2: A room in that house that holds all of my
• 1:54:01
  Speaker 2: books and all of my Harry Potter and fantastic based merch.
• 1:54:04
  Speaker 2: We agree. Jerry also said, of course, lots of other
• 1:54:08
  Speaker 2: spells would be nice also, but to pick one, this
• 1:54:11
  Speaker 2: is it.