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Building Team Capacity: The Path to High-Performing Teams · Leading in Change

• Building Capacity Audio Only: Change used to feel like a one-time event. Something you managed and led through, then came out the other side. But we are not living in that world anymore, and change is constant now. That means the job isn't leading through it, it's learning to lead in it. So how do you actually do that? That's what this show is all about. I'm Adrienne a partner and consultant at Success Labs, and this is the Leading in Change podcast. And every episode we dig into the real questions leaders are wrestling with right now. Everything from delegating effectively when the target keeps moving, to managing your career in the age of AI. Topics are coming directly from our clients, listeners, and leaders just like you. If you want to lead your people well and manage effectively in the chaos, you're in the right place. Let's get to it. Hi, I'm Adrian. Hi, I'm Devin. And this is the Leading in Change podcast. And today we're going to talk about team capacity building. And so we'll explain exactly what that means. You know, and I think there are three big reasons that we wanted to be having this conversation today. number one, we are seeing, you know, a lot of people talk about the great wealth transfer. I think what this also equates to is a great leadership transfer, right? So More and more organizations are turning over leadership. At the same time, that has resulted in a number of what we refer to as a lack of at bats. So people who have not had the experience in the leadership level roles that they need to be successful for the next stage of growth and leadership. And then number three, organizations need to be flatter and faster to function in a dynamic world. And that requires increasing distributed leadership. There there needs to be distributed leadership across teams. So we're gonna talk about okay, what do you do in that scenario and how do you get your team up to capacity to meet the demands of a changing world? Sounds great. Cool. so Devin, I'd love to start. how do you think about team capacity? What does it really mean to you and how do you encourage organizations to think about it themselves? Yeah, so a lot of times when I'm working with leaders, I really try to lay out a really simple way to think about this. And that is that you've got this team, and I'm gonna use a sports analogy, as I love to to use those. You've got this group of people, and whatever sport you're playing, whether it's, you know, right now we've got a lot going on, baseball, football, but you need to take this group of people and really understand one, what are we trying to do? And what are the positions and what is the knowledge and what is those the experiences and the capacity and the skills that we need. Where are these individuals on the team? what have I actually got? this person's got a great arm? All right, I know I got maybe a third baseman here if they can also stop the ball. who can hit? Who can field? Who can pitch? And I'm trying to understand where everybody's at so that I can actually increase the capacity of those individually individuals, right, which is what we're trying to do so that we can win this game. We're trying to make sure that we're maximizing their strengths, increasing the capacity and also understanding what our risk and our needs are, where are their holes and spots to fill in. And so if you're actually laying that out for your team, just like you would if you were fielding a football or baseball or basketball or volleyball team, you're really thinking about what have I got? What do we need? How do I increase capacity individually and collectively in order for us to win this game? Yeah. I love that. So let's start by talking about distributed leadership, you know, and why capacity growing to distribute discernment, rapid decision making, both individual effort and collective effort is so important in times of change. I mean, I think one thing is just that we've got to move faster. There's no time for things to, you know, to slowly go up and down an organization. If we're going to compete, then we have to allow people, people need to be able to make decisions. As close to the ground as possible where the action is. And we also need more people's input, more people's creativity. We need those generational differences too. I mean, all those things matter when we're talking about competing in a fast, high-tech environment. And so we have to start that earlier. I'm a big believer that we should be helping people manage their careers and have input and even be part of. strategy early on because it doesn't make sense just to do it f from the top, how where we're only thinking one way, and also where things become are really slow. And then also how do you get people involved? People want to be involved. That's right. And so getting people involved earlier, and if we're leaner and we're faster, then I think you've got to Do that. And we're doing things we've never done before. Yeah. And who do you want to do that? Well, you want people also, right? Best way to do things you've never done before is to include people who've also never done it before in some ways. Yeah. Right. It's like, how do you do that? I think about a lot of people get hung up on titles, right? And think that leadership has to be really positional or or sit with a certain level within the organization. And one of the things I think is helpful to think about for every role is. think about the time horizon in which they have to make decisions, thinking about the budget scope in which they have to make decisions. But at the end of the day, the more that you give people autonomy and experience and those at bats that you're talking about, leading and I think leadership is is there regardless of what level you are in the organization. It's can't do you have the ability to influence the work and influence others in the work. And so people should be getting as many reps in doing that as possible as early as possible. And I think that's what you're saying. A hundred percent. When you think about, if we even go back to sports and the idea that leadership is happening at all levels out on the field, right? that person next to you, you're expecting them to lead. That that that individual person is might be helping fire up the team during a quiet time. They might be doing something that needs to be done. They're backing each other up. And so this idea that leadership comes from everywhere, that the attributes of leaders though you can do that from any position. And that happens on in sports teams. And it also can happen and should happen more in work environments. And so that whole idea of teams, I think. I think there's something interesting in this. you know, I when you think about sports, there's a finite number of people that make the team. And a lot of times when I'm working with organizations and they're thinking about capacity building, they think about headcounts. I was just interviewing an organization that's going through this exercise. And I said, What would you like to be an outcome of this? And she said, Well, I'd really love to add more people to the team. And that might need be a need, that might be an outcome from this exercise, right? But what I I think people should also consider is how do I expand my capacity to do more? And I'm not talking about from a burnout perspective, but I'll give an example. When I was working with one organization, a consulting firm had come in and recommended literally doubling the number of people in a certain position. And my team went and looked at the data and said, actually, if we took the team we have now and we increased their capacity, we increased the number of asks that they're making, we increased their at-bats, statistically, we should get to exactly the same place without any new additional headcount. Now here's what it's going to take to get there. We've got to create greater visibility into the data. We've got to incentivize metrics differently. But if we give access to data, we incentivize metrics differently, I think we can get there. And guess what we did? Without adding a single new person to the team, we still hit those same fundraising revenue goals. Yeah, I I love that because I do also think you're not being creative if you're just adding people. Yeah. And you're allowed not digging into the team and even understanding. where some people might like to work or what they might like to learn. So if you skip that whole piece where and that's why I think really digging in and understanding what you've got, but also what people are interested in and what you think their capacity is to do more, learn more. And there's a a an analogy, it goes back to sports, but I I talk about little league. And it was like when you coach and and having coached volleyball, you know, middle school volleyball, and I know plenty of people out there have coach teams. It's like when you coach a little a little, you know, a a a little team, when people are still in learning phase, so young people, and you're not I'm not talking about, you know, the the kind of like road teams where you travel. I'm talking about just like basic teams. You basically got this group of kids and it's like this is the group of kids I got. We got a little talent, we got a lot of learning, we got, you know, some skill building to do. But this is the team I've got and and my job is to maximize them because you don't get to bring more people in. And by the way, you have to play everybody because it's little like everybody gets a shot. you can't just use take the best people. So I always say there's you know three things going on. You got what you got. You gotta play everybody. And their parents are in the stand, so you can't be really mean to them. Yeah. Yeah. So you basically have to like figure out how am I going to and The great thing about it is that's an opportunity, right? It's an opportunity. If you don't play those those kids, if you don't increase their capacity, they're never gonna probably be good. It's the same thing, right? It's like, first, what do we have? And are we maximizing what we have? And do I even really understand what I have? I mean, let's start with that. Again, Devin, how do you start to think about it? So what one of the things you always say is keep start with the future in mind. And so what do you mean by you know, starting with where we're going when you're thinking about team capacity? So I think a lot of times when the team capacity Capacity conversation comes up is when you're like, what do, you know, we're kind of at a crossroads. Do we need to add people? We've got new things to do. Things have changed, and we need to figure out, I need to figure out, do I have the team that I need right now to drive this business plan or this future plan? And so I think one of the first things you want to do is you want to say, is like, what does success look like? And what are the skills and and things that we're gonna need to be able to do? And so I actually Are there any attributes that you see consistently that just across the board are really critical for leading communication, adaptability or two that come up a lot? Learning agility. Yeah. And and just and being able to go with the yeah, learning agility, adaptability, communication, teamwork. Those are so you've got there are two kinds of things that come up on this list, right? It's some of it's just the very practical. I need certain technical functional skills. But the rest of it is these other these other things that that help people deliver and be good at the work. And so how do you think about the about the balance between soft and hard skills? When I say hard skills, I mean technical skills versus I hate the phrase soft skills, but you know, the skills like developing learning agility, like developing an ability to be adaptable and and go with the flow. I mean in some cases those well I sometimes I call it the what and the how, right? Like I that what are the things that we need, right? Like just the practical, functional, technical skills that we need. And then the how, it's all the kind of what you might call the the human or the soft skills, right? It's the intangible. They were intangibles. And I would say arguably depending on The kind of functional and technical skills, a lot of times those are teachable. And sometimes the other things can be harder to get people to develop. And so sometimes you look for those things and say we can teach some of these things. Now there are some things, right? Like if I need an actuary, I probably need those skills, right? Like they're not just gonna grow off, you know, and not like, well, just hire this great person and we'll teach them to be an actuary. but you can put people on development plan if you have enough time, right? That builds certain technical competencies. Well, if I need somebody great at something in Excel, I mean that is doable. And I it's easy to measure. I can say, okay, go take this Excel class. Now you can make pivot. Can you make a pivot table now? Okay, yes, you're making pivot tables for us. And I think some of the other things are harder to one define and help people understand what I'm looking for. And also sometimes hard to figure out. How do I grow that and how do I measure that? but when we're going back to practically, like I'm all about, I want to see it on paper. I know things in my head, and that's the exercise I get people to do. I'm like, okay, we're gonna lay out what are the functional and technical right, t skills that you need, that that your team needs to have. And then what are the other things that are really important if this person and this team are gonna function well and be able to be effective? Yeah. So when you're thinking about building team capacity, you're looking at the future strategy of the organization. Where are you trying to go? What are our goals? What what's what do you think is the right timeline? Three years, 18 months, longer, shorter? I think a lot of times it's apparent. right now, I think so many people are like, what is our next what does our next 12 to 18 months look like? Yeah. And in some cases, right now, as we we're talking to a lot of people who are really in high change. We're talking about AI. We're talking about really looking at teams and even reorganizing them for the future. And so, but you can kind of guess on some of them. You know some practical things that you're probably looking. You're like, we're gonna need people to be doing this. We're gonna be people to drive these kinds of things. So what are some of the practical skills they need? But the other pieces, and that's the most important piece, is like who are the people that can work in this environment that can be agile and adaptable and strategic and d have discernment and all and be out and work autonomously and out so we can move really f faster. And so when you're looking at all those things, literally I have people write them down and then maybe across let's think think about it. I've actually got a little worksheet, write that across the top. And then down the the left side, right, I'm gonna put all the people my team and I'm gonna I'm gonna start a assess, do a quick assessment of where I think they are. can be a really simple thing, can just be they're really operating at a if if we use three as the high and one as the low, or three is more they've got some solid talent and expertise, they're okay, maybe the two, and they're really struggling, or or just lack of experience, which is different, right? Definitely those are two different things, but they're still a one. And so if you go and you fill that all in and you look across, you can see each individual Where are they strong and weak? Yeah. And and can we close some of those gaps? But if you start looking down those knowledge silos or those attribute silos, that's when you start seeing like, wow. I got there's no redundancy, right? Yeah. Or sometimes there's too much redundancy. It's like I got tons of skill here, but we don't really need that as much anymore. We need some of these other things that were lacking. And so you're basically looking across and down for gaps with individuals. Or it gaps and opportunities because sometimes you go, like, man, I wasn't thinking about this way, but I or I kind of knew it, but this really this person's ready, right? or God, I know exactly how to get this person this experience. I just we haven't slowed down and do it. And then looking down is where you really see some, okay, organizationally, what does that mean for us? Can we build that? Can we close that silo or do we need to go higher, make a strategic higher? Or automation and you know, AI automation. I think we're more and more thinking about that as like work planning. Right? Like the six man, right? And basketball, like you know, six woman right there. You know, it's like how are we using this to make help us be efficient because most of us are not in positions to add people. Yeah. I think that's exactly right. So the question is are we using our team to our fullest capacity? Number one. And number two, can we use technology to add capacity above and beyond what we think we can max out with our I think if you're not asking that question right now, you're missing something huge. Yeah. I agree. Absolutely. You know, so one thought that popped into my mind is I think a lot of organizations go through this exercise all the way at the top. And my experience is if you really want an accurate assessment of team capacity, you need to be talking to the people closer to who's actually getting the work done. Right. And the people closer the the closer s level of leadership to the work that you can get, I think the more clear view you're gonna have. And so how do you help organizations kind of work through, okay, we've gotta be talking about this strategy at a high level, but we also need to have a really accurate picture of where people are at. How do you how do you help teams think about that? I think Your your all your risk and opportunities in the middle of the organization and below. What and exactly what do you mean by that? people spend so much time doing succession planning for the top of the organization. And I I'm I was always like, you know, you you're you're gonna be able to figure that out a couple of different ways. One is hopefully you've got a couple of people in your organization that you've been ready and there were only one or a couple of those positions. Now are they important? They are, but almost always you can go hire that talent. If you really don't have it. certainly there's some if if you're just like we're we never have anybody ready at the highest levels, that's a concern. But people spend so much time doing succession planning at the top of the organization, and where the real risk is, is typically at your it's managers to directors and VPs, it's supervisors to managers. That's where and they're much more of those positions. So if you're not doing planning, succession planning capacity building at that level. It's really gonna start to hurt. Yeah. and so And so some of the signs that you might be underusing people at that level, you know, I see so many organizations keep giving stretch assignments to the same people. Like I've been that person, right? Who got like every person, right? But th that, you know, starves the other people a around the you know, potentially burns out your go to person. Yeah. It creates resentment of the from the go The go to people. It's like I like this. I love these opportunities. But at the same time, what are these other people doing? Yeah. And then there are some other people who maybe are not as vi you know, visible or forward that you're just missing. and then sometimes you're like, We got a performance problem. We've got people just not doing their thing. And so I don't think people can afford any of those things. Can't afford to burn out your great people before it before they have a chance to do the next thing. You can't afford to create resentment. And people do if they don't feel like people are delivering people stay at organizations where they feel like they can grow and be developed. And you know, they also you're missing you're probably if you've not taken a look, almost always when people do this exercise, they find a couple opportunities. They they were just Not taking advantage of it. That's exactly right. Because they're seeing it on paper just like you would your lineup, you know, when you're going into a game. You can see it. And I think part of why this happens is like path of least resistance. It's just easy to have your person. You know, have some a lot of times it's just easy communication, easy language. You know, can handle it. People who are easy for you to lead or easy for you to lead. And people who are hard for you to lead or hard for you to lead. That's right. And that's very simple. But becomes a problem at some point. I I think your reframe is helpful of you can't afford to not tap into the full talent y capacity that you have. It's too much at first, but it feels like I can't afford to take the time to hand this off to somebody. I can't afford to go with an unknown, but you kind of have to just like rip the band-aid at some point. Yeah. Then we roll back to just like what are the barriers to delegation? Yeah. Because we are talking at the end of the day when we talk about team capacity, it involves some Handoffs and delegation and knowledge transfer and those things take time and we're not good at Yeah. Okay. So let's talk about that. how do you start to develop team capacity? What are three things that you can do to take some of those people who maybe and now you're looking at it on paper, you realize they've been overlooked. How do you start to develop that talent? So there are a couple of things that you should be doing. Number one, having a good idea of what's out there, right? Like what are the projects? What are the initiatives? What are the things coming up? you've if you've completed this worksheet, this capacity building worksheet, you've also potentially written down and identified some things that you might just not be thinking about explicitly when it's just in your head. So assuming that you've done a good job of that, then you're going and assessed your people well. Then you've got to figure out some things. It can be training and development. Sometimes some of these things are changed can be trained. The second thing is just actually delegating and turning things over. And there's also some explicit knowledge transfer. That kind of goes into do we have the things that we know captured and people know where to access it. And so a lot of times when you start doing this, you start realizing that. And probably we're a good example of that, right? Is that you realize that it's hard for people to learn because most of what the knowledge and the it's it's tacit knowledge, right? It's the it's the muscle memory and the things like that. Well, that's really hard to do. but there's some great documents like knowledge transfer and succession documents that kind of force you to think about who are the people, you know, where does this exist? And so that's getting a little deep, but a lot of times what people realize is that they don't have good infrastructure to support all this. That's right. And so that's another thing that comes up. And so that becomes another barrier, but also an opportunity. So what I heard is to start building capacity, one, you've got to think about how you're developing your people. So that can be things like stretch assignments, you know, doing something that's a little bit outside your comfort level. that can be Coaching and developing. So we're taking on a number of coaching clients right now as part of a succession and team planning exercise. I think cross-training. So we talked about if you d see where you don't have duplication, or overduplication, how are we cross-training to build capacity there? I think something that doesn't get talked about enough is mentoring, you know. And I think I'm I talked to a guy this weekend at the football game. He's on a sabbatical. And he's stepping back intentionally to think about, okay, how do I go back into my organization that's been in high growth? He was burned out. He's the leader of this organization that's quadrupled in revenue over the past five years. they're going gangbusters. How do I come in back into the organization, really mentor the next generation of leadership so that way I can step away in five years like I plan to? And so I think, you know, for him, that's gonna be more of a mentoring exercise than a capacity building or coaching or training because he thinks his people have got it. It's just that kind of seasoned wisdom. that he wants to figure out how to impart, the decision making. Yeah, and and people learn from experiences. People learn to make decisions by making decisions and making bad decisions sometimes. And I think that if you're Coming up and knowing, what are the things that the new stuff, the things they're gonna be doing, and plugging people into those, that is so the way in fact, when I'm telling people about how I manage their careers, I'm like, look for the new stuff. If you'll jump in and do the new stuff, you will learn so much and you will be well thought of. And in some ways, we want to create a push and a pull, right? We want to push development towards people, but we also want to create a culture where people are pulling experiences. And learning towards themselves. And that's really an old school thought of just how do we create a development culture? And I think a development culture is an agile culture a culture. it's a culture where people can be more ready for yeah, for change. So can we talk about delegation as capacity building for a minute? Because you touched on that, but I think it's an interesting idea that people don't think about, right? Delegation isn't just about you. And getting things off your plate. It's also about developing the capacity of the people around you. Yeah, so I think we all the barriers that we talk about, like time and you know, trust and things like that. One thing that can help is if you've got a really good way to delegate. And I think one of the first things is to when we're gonna delegate to help people understand why we're delegating to them. Anytime someone takes on something new. gets delegated to, takes on a project or an experience, they have an opportunity to do three things. I think we talked about this in one of our maybe in an earlier podcast. And that is one, I'm probably going to build some sort of technical or functional skill. Right? I'm I'm gonna by doing this, I'm going to learn something functionally. The second thing is anytime I do something new, I increase my business acumen because I'm exposed to something that helps me connect dots. Again, what does that do for you? It makes you stronger and builds your capacity, your decision making. Builds context. Context, a hundred percent. And the third thing is if I do it right, if I take on this as with an intentional and I'm learning something, I'm connecting dots and building business acumen. The third thing is I'm building relationships because I'm getting a chance to work with people I've never worked with before. And that also gives you access to information. Right? Relationships are access to information, to advice, to expertise. To connection. and so all those things are important. So if you're not just dumping, but to do that, I've got to slow down and say, this is why I'm turning this over to you. Yeah. And this is what I want you to get from being on this task force or taking on this project. And these are the three things, you know, I want you to get from this. And then maybe I think explaining that why and what if what your expectations are for the other person coming at. What does success look like? Absolutely. I think that's so important. I want you to really be intentional about the relationships you're going to build through this special project because I think it is going to help you have the resources that you need to be successful in the future. Yeah. And look, let's be honest, when we're delegating, sometimes it's not all that sexy. Sometimes it's like, look, I need you to work on this report and it's due every week. But if I give you context to that and say, listen, this report, this report goes to my boss. And once it goes there, it goes to the board. And so Accuracy is important and making sure that our our takeaways are accurate when we give this to them. So it can feel like, I'm just doing this, you know, I'm just doing this report every week. But if I understand what this report's used for, if where it's going, how important accuracy or the right takeaways are, then that gives it different kind of meaning. Because look. Sometimes we got to delegate some things that are that sometimes we delegate really cool, sexy things that everybody's like, why can't I do that? And sometimes, right, you're delegating, doing things that can feel kind of rote or they can feel kind of like, is this really a developmental opportunity? And it kind of is because we learn from even the simple things, even simple, everyday kinds of tasks, if we explain them right, help feed the bigger picture. Yeah. I think that's exactly right. And when we miss those things, we also miss opportunities to build discernment and learning and all those things. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And you don't realize how much diversity of experience creates resilience because you have, you know, I think agile, adaptable people have brains that connect disparate experiences with one another. So you know how to say. This ex this experience I got over here, I can actually translate it over here. And I think that you can't do that if you don't have diversity of experience. And so that's I I I think really good advice to just jump in and do something you haven't done before. so before we wrap up, I'd love if you let's trade some stories from the field. So do you have an example of a client maybe where capacity, building capacity or sharing. leadership or having distributed leadership paid off during times of change or growth. Or maybe where it was the bench was thin and it's causing problems. I think there's some good examples. right now this feels like a really hot thing. And I say hot thing, it's just that I think, you know, we've even in just the last few weeks Not only are we actively seeing people, you know, I've got a coaching client right now and she's like, I gotta I gotta look at my team, I've gotta figure out how we're gonna do this because I've lost a couple of key roles and feeling pretty vulnerable. And I think that's what people are feeling. They lose a key role, something happens. In this particular case, it was one person who had some special skills. And that made them very seductive to other people, right? So this person got plucked, an offer they couldn't refuse leaves a big hole. And I think most of the time people get to this by being like, my God, like what am I gonna do now? And then you realize we got some big gaps and holes. so it's very reactive right now, I think. Yeah, we've got we've got two clients recently, a big healthcare organization and actually a sales organization that both are like, we have to start looking at this more comprehensively. Because we realize some things are happening in the organization and we're feeling the risk and the gaps. it does not take a whole lot to feel that. And I think there's old school, what I felt like we were seeing a few years ago is people just like, yeah, we lost this person. We're just gonna plug this hole, plug this hole. And now what we're seeing, I think it has everything to do with the high change environment, this really dynamic environment, is that we're seeing people saying, We have got to back up. And we've got to look at this comprehensively. And when when they do that, right, and and I think we're gonna maybe cue this up for our next podcast or one of the ones coming up, we're really taking a step back and we're saying, what am I trying to do? Now that can be for your team, it can be for the whole organization. You know, what does that mean for the skills and people that we're gonna need? what do we've got? What do we have? So we're kind of describing that on a small basis today. and what are gonna be our gap closing strategies? And then I think you gotta have it on repeat. Yeah. Because you can't sleep on this. You need to every six months to a year at the latest be re-looking at everything. Where are we at? What do we got? What do we need? Yeah. How do we keep building this team or making smart decisions for this team? Yeah. I'll give one really specific granular example. I was working with an organization that had grown pretty significantly, but then, you know, their their kind of revenue s path changed. They're gonna have to generate revenue from a totally new service line. And so the team had to step back and say, okay, are we organized the right way? They'd been very organized around kind of an engineering project management perspective. They were gonna be moving much more to a services-based kind of revenue model. and projects were gonna look different. They needed to build out a whole policy arm as opposed to, they had a a policy arm and then, a kind of more execution arm. And spent, you know, spent the time to really say, okay, what is the team that we need to build around this new strategy? And then looking at that org chart and doing the exercise that you talked about, here's the capacity that we need, here's the skills and competencies that we need, plugged everybody in. looked at the individuals on the team and said, okay, who can fit where? And then that made it really clear, okay, this is where we need to add, and to do that, we're gonna have to shed some people on the team, but we're also gonna have to add some new talent. Here's where we've really got to skill up and train. And so this is the training that's gotta happen. Here's where we need to develop leadership capacity. And so they they're putting those people into coaching engagement. So that way they're getting the leadership capacity building that's gonna be necessary. And then, the goal is to come back and revisit this in 18 months, just like you said. So let's start to implement this change, see if it's working, and if not, iterate until we get there. And so I think that, just to recap everything we said is like exactly what you do. what's your strategy? let's map the team against it. Where do we see gaps? Let's build a plan to fill those gaps, and then let's execute the plan and then let's kind of evaluate and iterate after that. think a hundred percent. Yeah. Okay, cool. so is there you know, I I I kind of recapped I I guess how you should be thinking about team capacity. Are there any challenges or risks that we haven't talked about? Because I think we've made it look sound really like you said, sexy, easy, you know, intuitive, but i I I feel like you think the risk I think the risk is a couple of things. One is that we covered delegation in in an earlier podcast, but the truth is we're pretty bad at it. And so setting it up well and then helping people be successful, you know, turning it over with a plan, right, where you they really understand what success looks like. There's appropriate level of checking in. You're not just like turning it over and waiting and then going like throwing your arms up and like they didn't do what I need them to do, it's wrong, it's not good. It takes time. Building capacity takes time. And I think doing it right and making sure that they have the support and the resources and they really understand and you're checking in along the way to make sure they can be successful. Because I think otherwise you're going to not do it well and then be frustrated that the team isn't performing like you need them to do it. And a lot of times it's our fault. It really is. if people aren't you know, if if you can't stick with that process and do it well, I think you end up in the same place. And people need different things. And a lot of times we're talking about people who have very little ex experience that we're trying to build up. I mean, that's where see the rubber meet the road sometimes is you look across the organization and you realize you have a lot of talent that can do one thing really well. But doesn't have the capacity to do all these other things, right? So, you know, how do you think about kind of like atrophied and underdeveloped talent when you really take a hard look at it? And that can feel overwhelming, right? But that's where you just you've got to get in and build a plan and see who's responsive, right? I I love to find talent. I always say hungry, humble, hardworking. You know, who's gonna be hungry and eager for development? I you know, one of the things that we talk about is young people really want this. so how are you and there's this kind of myth that Gen Z is jumps around all the time and even millennials that they jump around all the time. It's because they don't feel invested in. And and the data are actually shows that they're very willing to be long tenure employees if they feel like the organization is investing in them. But they're not gonna be loyal to an organization that feels extractive. That's the language that they use, right? Okay. And so that's how organizations need to be thinking about it, is this is also a retention strategy. Right. We're gonna be able to break this cycle of constant churn by building the capacity of our people. Yeah. And I think when you are developing people, you know, when you've been doing something 25, 30 years, which that's baby boomers have been doing it that long at least. If we're talking about going back to the beginning, right? The transfer of knowledge and and leadership roles, what you realize is that. We think we knew a lot more than we actually did and we think we were better than we actually were at that stage. I look back and I think how I was not good all the time and I did not know what I was doing. And I'm, you know, and you forget what it's like to be in that stage where you don't have those experiences and you haven't learned it yet. But the way that you learn is you screw up, right? You you try things, and so you also have to create an environment where people can do that. Yeah. They are not gonna be perfect. th y you turn over things and people are not ready all the time. And that's good. The way you get ready is by doing the things. Yep. So I think that's the biggest thing that we need to do is how do we get better at delegating and better at transferring knowledge. And those are hard things to get good at for a variety of reasons that we talked about today. Yeah. I think that's a good place to end it. Okay. Cool. Thank you, Devin. Thank you. If you all enjoyed this episode, we would love it if you leave us a review, follow us on wherever you are listening, whatever platform you're listening on. you can find us on social at Success Labs and Do we have any resources from today? We might have a resource that we can put together. Yeah. Yeah, we have a little capacity building matrix that can give you an idea of what this could look like. Very simplistic. I often even recommend when I'm going through this in my leadership classes. I'm like, look, look at this, but then build your own. But don't overcomplicate it. Like keep it simple, just like you would your lineup when you're, you know, fielding a team. I love that. Keep it simple. I love that. So we'll share our capacity building matrix in the show notes. And thank you all again for watching. Thank you all for tuning in. If this conversation was useful to you, the best thing you can do is share it with someone who might use it. Leave us a review, and please subscribe wherever you're listening. You can learn more about our work at Success Labs and connect with us at SuccessLabs.com. We're on LinkedIn, Facebook, and Instagram. Just search for Success Labs. We'd love to hear from you. Until next time, keep leading well.