Latest / Caught on the Mike... / "The Mission is the Future" with DJ Abilities- Rhymesayers Entertainment

Transcript

"The Mission is the Future" with DJ Abilities- Rhymesayers Entertainment · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: Warning due to some language and subject matter.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: If you have ever been to famed Minneapolis nightclub First Avenue, you have seen my next guest name inside of a star on the outdoor mural.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: As a part of the Rhine Stayers Entertainment Record label, he built up a reputation of being one of the best battle DJs in the Midwest and now worldwide.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_00: As one half of the duo Idea and Abilities, his career has spanned 20 plus years.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_00: I am very proud to welcome DJ Abilities to the show.
• 0:51
  SPEAKER_00: We are going to talk about its tour with the far side, its recent release, phonograph Phoenix, and the 20-year anniversary edition of ENA's Firstborn.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: I told you it would be worthwhile.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mike.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, you might know him from Idea and Abilities, and he just got done touring, or are you still touring with the far side?
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's DJ Abilities.
• 1:28
  SPEAKER_00: How you doing, man?
• 1:29
  SPEAKER_02: I'm good, good.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_02: I just got finished.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_02: Our last show was on Saturday.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:33
  SPEAKER_00: Where was that at?
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_02: Los Angeles.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_00: Nice, nice, nice.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: How was the experience for you?
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: It was fun.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_02: I've been a fan of their music for a long time.
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_02: It's one of the reasons I got into hip hop in the first place, it was like all the early 90s stuff was really big into me getting into that whole genre, music.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: So it was like it was an interesting experience because it I was like reconnecting with those early memories, but in like present day.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then all the guys were really cool, the show was really fun.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_02: It was fun.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_02: Touring, though, I haven't toured in two years, you know, because COVID, but nobody's really toured in 15 years.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_02: So I did forget how hard it was, though.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_02: Touring is very exhausting.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't get easier as we get older.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I've been sober now for four months, and that helped me.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_02: Like, because I didn't get sick on the road at all, and I was like able to still exercise, and and I was thinking, damn, if I was drinking, I probably would have got sick.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: And like I'm not young, you know, I'm not 22 anymore where I can just smash it out all day.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, definitely.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like the creature comforts are more welcomed when you get older.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas when you're younger, you're like, whatever.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm gonna say this too, because I often wonder, because I'm in as good a shape as I've ever been into in my life.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: It's just that I think part of it is yes, it does get more difficult when you get older, but I also think you just perceive it differently.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas like it doesn't bother you as much as when when you get younger.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: I think I was probably feeling more or less the same sensations, but I just didn't care or or recognize it as much.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: But when you're older, you start to see patterns and you start to just become more aware of things.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_02: So I I honestly think a lot of it is just a perception thing as opposed to a physical thing, because with some of it is physical, but like I'm in better shape than I was, I'm in better shape now than I was then.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like how much of it is that, you know, and how much of it is just in my head.
• 3:39
  SPEAKER_02: But either way, something's happening where it's harder.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: I know, I know that much for sure.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Some concoction is making it more difficult for sure.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Congratulations on four months, and to go to exactly what you were saying, um, I do think it is very perceptual.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: I don't drink really at all, and I haven't for about two years now.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_00: And it it wasn't because of any sort of problem, it's just I was tired of feeling like shit, to be quite frank with you.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_00: It was like um I could go out, have some drinks with some buddies, and then I'd have like a week's worth of anxiety afterwards, and that never happened when I was younger, you know.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_00: But there was some sort of biochemical effect that was like triggering something, something in my head as well.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_02: So see, and that this is another thing, too, because I do think you know, hangovers and recovery is a longer process as you get older, and I think when you're younger, you bounce back quicker.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that that is probably true, but I also think that I, as you get older, you like I can drink a lot of alcohol.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like what I thought was a lot of alcohol when I was younger really wasn't that much alcohol as compared to what I can drink now.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_02: But I know how to navigate it better, but still my body has to recover from it.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_02: So, again, that's a perception thing where it's like, oh, I was partying like crazy, this and that.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm like, I was probably drinking half as much as I can drink now.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_02: So, like, how how much of it is it me being young, and how much of it is just me being able to do more?
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: So, and the reality is it's somewhere in the middle between those two things.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_02: But that was a big reason why I decided to stop though, for because for whatever reason it may be, not only the time that I use for drinking, so I lost that time to be productive, but it was the time it took me to recover.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: And it was just like, all right, I just lost like a week of my life or something, and like it's just like why?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, that's another thing too.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: It just gets old.
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_02: It is old, like I've done it, I've done like it's time for something new.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_02: So, and I'm not gonna sit here and say that I won't ever drink again, because I probably will, but at right I will never drink how I used to drink.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: Because I used to I would drink for days straight and just work on I would work on music for some of those times, and I actually did come up with I have come up with really good things drinking.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_02: Like I came up with the smile beat drunk on Jack Daniels in a winter night.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: Like I've come up with cool shit drinking, but I've come up with cool shit not drinking, like I don't need it, you know what I'm saying?
• 6:05
  SPEAKER_02: And the reality is it it still just takes so much time.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like I and one thing about getting older is I'm more aware of my time and I don't want to waste my time because it's there's only so much of it left.
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: And but it I mean, if you listen to my new record, you know, there's a song on there called Wasteland that really touches upon my relationship with alcohol.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's I and I specifically titled it Wasteland because of that, where it's like it's a waste, it's like it's a waste of time, but it's land, kind of like Disneyland.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like I it is kind of fun too, you know, and like the pre progression of that song is like the progression of my day of drinking.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_02: Because this thing, I don't like go out and drink a lot.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_02: I just usually just stay home and just drink by myself and like do shit and like just kind of get into my headspace and like watch shows or work on music and just just kind of like push my limits because I know as soon as I tip, I can just go to sleep, or I you know it's like a space for me really to go there.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_02: But again, to get back to what I was talking about, I already I've done it, I've done it a zillion times, like I don't need to do it anymore realistically.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_02: And I at least I can get a song out of it because I do like that song, I gotta say, I still like that song.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and I am sure like experiencing a tour and like a sense of nostalgia to a certain extent, like you were describing on this last tour, was really different being with that level of clarity.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you know what though?
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_02: Uh a long time ago, I actually did an Idea and Abilities tour sober as an experiment because like I've been a heavy drinker for a long time, and I was like, you know what?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_02: I need to do a tour sober to make sure I still love what I'm doing, and it's not just an addition to drinking, like like a drinking buddy, like it is me doing shows just a drinking buddy, like you know what I mean?
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_02: Like, what is it really?
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so by doing that tour sober, I realized okay, I do still want to do this job minus the alcohol.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_02: And so I've done it before, so it wasn't some kind of um it wasn't a new experience or anything like that.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, there were a couple of major landmarks recently.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the 20th anniversary of LP's fantastic damage, and it was the 21st anniversary of Firstborn, also?
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: Holy crap, man.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: How does that feel?
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_00: And where the fuck did the last 20 years go?
• 8:35
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's it's funny because like I feel it does feel like wow, that's a lot of time, but I also feel like, yeah, it's a long time ago.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_02: You know, like I so like I hear what you're saying like that, but at the same time, I'm like, nah, I'm like, I did a lot of shit in these 20 years.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if it is that long ago, you know what I mean?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: But more so when I look uh when I look at those two things is like it's humbling and awesome that people care about it.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: Because it's like, okay, usually you know, when when when time passes, that's when you really get to tell how it resonated with people.
• 9:12
  SPEAKER_02: Because something could come out, oh, it's dope, but then they don't care about it a year later or whatever.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: But if people still care about stuff 20 years later, they're probably gonna care about it forever, right?
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so that that is a really cool feeling because I put a lot of fucking effort into what I do, and to that helps me feel like it was worth that time.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_02: Talking about where time is is this very limited resource, it makes me feel better about choosing to use my time to create those things and be a part of those things when I see the response on those things being so positive.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: Now, your career is pretty interesting because you've progressed through turntablism and now more classify yourself more as a producer now.
• 9:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, could for my audience and for the sake of my audience, could you kind of clarify that for them as if they have no idea what's going on?
• 10:07
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, so I started out just with DJing, which turntabilism falls into DJing, right?
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_02: It's like a fat.
• 10:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I definitely uh focused on scratching in particular, and which is like to me the most represent representative part of turntabilism is scratching.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_02: There's other things, but that one really is like the main one, as far as I'm concerned.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_02: Um so I focused on that, and I I'm really grateful that I did because that enables me to perform live.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_02: Like production is a is a much trickier thing to perform live, whereas scratching is built to perform live, and that's one of the reasons why I focused on it because I really enjoy performance.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like if I just went up there and play my beats and I'm just nodding, I'm I'm performing them, but not really performing.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's why I focused a lot on scratching.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: But I just as I got older, it's like it scratching turned more into just like like the drums or the bass or the keys or the it's just a another instrument, and I happen to be proficient at that instrument, but it it doesn't it's not so much more out of balance important to me as it once was.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: It's still probably the primary, because if you listen to Phonograph Phoenix, obviously the scratching is a major part of that, but it's it's just a spice, it's like it it it it doesn't have more importance than the other things, it needs to cooperate with the other things, it's just it's just a part of the pie.
• 11:48
  SPEAKER_02: It's got a nice slice of the pie, but it really is just part of the pie.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: And yeah, I'm just I'm just more interested in it.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like production is a it has a much wider scope of sound and possibility, and I'll always do scratching and turntablism because again, the performance element of it, and it is a really unique sound, and I still have an affinity for it for sure and an affection for it, but I I I think that production is a more all-encompassing thing and has more um just there's just more to it.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_02: For for me, again, speaking, like I can't say what it is for everybody, but for me, I feel like it's it's it has more to offer for me, and I have more to offer it uh personally speaking.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_02: When when we talk about hip-hop, I love all facets of hip-hop, but if I'm gonna be super real, hip-hop beats are the most important thing to me.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_02: And over scratching, rapping, graffiti, breakdancing, anything, hip-hop beats really is the main thing.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, so that's why it makes more sense for me to focus on that because I'm like, oh, that's really what truly, truly matters to me.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_00: Growing up in the 90s, coming into our teen years in the 90s, when it you know became a larger part of the cultural lexicon and pop culture in general, do you feel that as hip-hop has progressed in age and that style of music has progressed, do you feel that turntablism and DJing in at large has become more organic, or has it become less organic?
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: Or because it wasn't viewed that way initially.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: This was like, man, this is what do you mean by organic?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_02: You're gonna have to that's such a uh broad, you know, I mean that's not a definitive world word, really.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: I mean it in the sense that by the industry's conventional standards, turntables they weren't viewed as an instrument the same way that they are viewed now.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: We view it as as an instrument now, but like older generations, generations that are older than us.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_02: You know what that is though, is like the thing about turntables not being viewed as an instrument has always been and still to this day based upon lack of perceiving somebody using it that way.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: Because you could take anybody in the world, and if they watch D styles scratch, they'll be like, Oh, I get it.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like you can't not see that it's an instrument, but it's just that's not presented to most people.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_02: They see somebody on a controller playing a top 40 track and train wrecking it to another top 40 track, and they're like, that's not music, and I'm like, you're right, it's not, or like that's not an instrument.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_02: In that setting, it's not an instrument, but it's it's just a lack of perception uh on their part of seeing what it what it actually is, because yeah, I mean, you can't tell me when you see that level of scratching that it's not an instrument.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_02: Clearly, it's clearly an instrument, like right, right.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Or like when we watch you, sir, you know.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_02: I mean myself, you know, that would be that would be that would be no good, but I appreciate that.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: I was actually listening to another podcast that you were on, and there were some really great points that you made about how like a guitar and a and drums and other instruments are are thought of as forward moving instruments throughout the song where you're working almost in reverse, right?
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's so cool about turntables is that we're going forwards and backwards.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: And this is the other thing is like in order to make a drum sound, your hand has to hit the drum, right?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, or you have to a good one would be like a wind instrument.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_02: You have to breathe into it, or you have to breathe into the thing to have it make sound, but then you need to catch a breath and to breathe in it to make another sound.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: A turntable, once that fader is over, the sound is infinite.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_02: And then that's why you can get into what we call flaring, where you start take basically playing negative space.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then when you play that negative space, and then when you do the turnaround, the turnaround creates another note because it's like going forward and then it's back.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then so you can start playing off of the forward and the back, and then the cutting those things in half, and that's when it gets like really, really fast.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you have a uh you're like one step ahead of what like a drummer naturally could do.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_02: But then there's tricks for everything, because like what a drummer, a drummer has ghost notes, and they have other ways to do things where like they can get extra notes in that that make it easier.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: So like every every uh instrument has their own things, but that would be like turntabilism's like advantage to a degree, is you have like an infinite note, so to speak.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's awesome.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk a little bit about Phonograph Phoenix.
• 16:38
  SPEAKER_00: You released that in November of 2021.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so did you develop that album throughout the course of the pandemic, or what was it's October 28th?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay, okay.
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a few days early, or a few days late.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: No, not that, but I was just like thinking in my head, I was like, is that right?
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, no, that's not right.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's 28th.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_00: But so was that the result of a longer process?
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like, was it sprung forward through you know the course of the pandemic?
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_00: Or explain your process in putting that album together.
• 17:09
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that was that that record took me years to make.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: And what wound up happening is when Mike had passed, I still needed to do shows because this is my job, this is how I make money, right?
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_02: So I had to learn how to perform by myself.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_02: And so I went the route of DJing, like just doing creative style DJing, but just still just DJing, like playing other people's records in a creative way, a lot of scratching, et cetera, et cetera.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: And I developed uh a show that that worked, that enabled me to keep this job, so to speak.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_02: But what I realized, and it was kind of like a gift and the curse in a sense, is that fans were coming out and they were having fun and they were digging it, but it was like, oh, people want to hear my original music.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: That's really what they want.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_02: And that was like a light bulb moment where I was like, oh, I have to make a new record.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_02: I need to make a new record by myself so that I can go do shows, and and I just set out on that journey.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_02: And then once I had that realization, I was like, well, if I'm gonna do it, I might as well like really challenge myself.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_02: So no matter what happens at the end of that process, I'll be further along.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_02: And some of the things that I decided to do were no guest appearances.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I'm gonna do this thing completely by myself, and then two was all of the music I wrote myself.
• 18:37
  SPEAKER_02: So like I sampled the scratch vocals, obviously, but and then I sampled the drum sounds that I would chop up and recreate.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_02: But it's like so I mean, I I made those my own.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: But and then the uh the melodies though were all played out by myself.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: On well, I didn't play them myself, but I clicked them all out in the in the MIDI and did all the wrote it all out myself.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_02: And that took a long time, and it was really, really daunting.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I you know, I've had people you know talk about the record being shorter, this or that, but like technically, like time-wise, it's kind of short, but the amount of effort I put into that is like an absurd amount of time I put into that record, and I had other things that could have gone on that record, but I love the way that it flowed, and I'm not just gonna put more songs on that just to make it longer.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_02: It was like it's art, you know, it's like that's how long it was, and and I and I like it like that.
• 19:37
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, had I come up with other things that would have fit into it and been up to the standards, like so Ilmatic is my favorite hip-hop album of all time, and that record's short, but I don't give a shit because it's perfect the way that it is, right?
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm I'm always quality over quantity, that's how I live.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_02: I live sparsely, like I don't like a bunch of stuff.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um in hindsight, I actually get as much joy like getting rid of things than I do buying new things.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if I drop some stuff off I goodwell, I'm like, ugh, like I get like that's a dopamine rush as opposed to buying it feels great.
• 20:10
  SPEAKER_02: I've gotten rid of at least four times the amount of records that I have now over the years.
• 20:14
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I'm down to like one shelf of records, and I'm still trying to get rid of them because I just thought I'm like, what's the hottest thing?
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: I like to live in a state of mind where like if I can close my eyes, walk around my place, anything that I grab, I want to be able to look at it and go, I love this, I want this in my life.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_02: No indifference.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's how I approach that record.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_02: Every song, every moment, every scratch, every single thing about that was painstakingly done.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like I would go and I would take the looper in Ableton, I would listen to each bar to two bars just over and over again, getting all the volumes right, the just making it certain, so every single thing, you know, every nook and cranny of the song was exactly how I wanted it to be, was as good as I could make it.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's things where I'm like, oh, maybe I could that could have been better, but I couldn't make it better.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_02: You know, it's like a conceptual being better, but I know I did the best that I could do.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_02: Plus, at some point you need to be like, this is what it is, because you can get to a space where the magic of music is an interesting thing because making it better can actually make it worse sometimes.
• 21:23
  SPEAKER_00: Agreed too.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_02: So, like a good example of that would be kind of like uh like sloppy drums.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like, if you fix a sloppy drum sometimes, you take away the funk, you take away the soul of it.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_02: And that and that's the same thing with scratching.
• 21:35
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes like some sloppy scratching is actually what gives it its character.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: And when when sometimes when you're working on stuff over a long period of time and you go back and listen to it, you could you could start to perceive that you're fixing something, but you're actually changing the magic of that moment.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_02: And and as an artist, you need to try to be as egolist as possible and go, okay, what is the best thing about?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_02: This and not just think that whatever you're thinking in the moment is right.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_02: And so that was a whole learning experience as well.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it was fun.
• 22:09
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I that record did what I needed to do.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_02: Like it made me capable of creating all of my own stuff and being completely self-sufficient.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_02: And I grew immensely as an artist.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, writing all the music from the ground up, that was a daunting process.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm really grateful I went through it.
• 22:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's it's an amazing record.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: I remember when it dropped.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's why I threw out the November time frame.
• 22:33
  SPEAKER_00: Is I remember when it dropped, I was at the gym and I actually was like, oh shit, it popped up, and I like, I gotta listen to this.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I listened to it on Spotify while I was running through my whole damn run.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: So, man, props to you, my friend.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_00: That was it was great.
• 22:48
  SPEAKER_00: And I love what you talk when you talk about the quality over quantity, because I don't think that that's a thing that a lot of artists in particular understand.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody wants to purge their art.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: I I was a lifelong musician as well.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody wants to purge themselves of everything instead of just focusing on their best things and they're putting their best foot forward.
• 23:10
  SPEAKER_02: In addition, I would say this is that I think a lot of artists think, and maybe not a lot, but at least some think everything they do is dope.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it deserves to get heard.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_02: I don't like that.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, there's a a huge amount of stuff that I have that maybe other people would like, but I'm like, that's not up to my standard.
• 23:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like, there's a reason you don't see me producing for a lot of artists, because the only shit I want to get out into the world is stuff I'm like, yes, 1000%.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_02: Like, nobody's gonna be more critical of it than me.
• 23:42
  SPEAKER_02: Like the filters it has to go through is like extreme.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't have this uh sense of myself that anything I touch is gold, you know what I mean?
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Like, far from the I'm like, nah, this needs to be A1, like the best of the best.
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_02: And for me at the time, Phonograph Phoenix, that was the best I could do and the best I could offer.
• 24:05
  SPEAKER_02: And that's why that's exactly what it is.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: It's like each one of those songs was my favorite song at one point.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: When you, if you say, Well, what's your favorite song?
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_02: That's gonna change day to day depending on how I feel.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_02: Because, like, like Wasteland would be a good example.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: Since I don't have that same relationship with alcohol, that song is kind of difficult for me in a way, because it's like glorifying alcohol use in a sense, which feels irresponsible, but but it's true and art is meant to be truthful.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: But from a purely production standpoint, that's one of my favorite beats on there.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like the swing of the drums, there's different key changes in it.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_02: I I'm using D.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_02: Phrygian, which is kind of like a weirder key in of itself, which I like to deviate from just minor, which I I do do a lot of minor, I do love minor.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: But there's parts of that song that I'm like super happy about that make it my favorite song per se.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I could go through each one of those songs and break down why that is my favorite song.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_02: So that's why they all made it onto the record, because I was like, oh, these all truly have something to offer.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_02: Plus, I would add that, at least in my opinion, there's no redundancy.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_02: You a lot of artists, I think that they have these longer records, but track three and track nine and track twelve are kind of the same track.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas like Photograph Phoenix, there is no redundancy on that record.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's each song is definitive to itself, from the subject matter, from the BPM to the key that I'm using, to like it's it's a unique experience each one.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like, you know, you tell me what are you getting more of?
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_02: You know, you have an hour-long album, you only like 10 minutes of it, or do you want 20 minutes, but you like the whole 20 minutes, you know?
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_00: Just recently interviewed another artist, and we were talking about the industry at large, and kind of a less is more approach, more and more artists are releasing songs or more compact releases and only putting forth their best stuff as opposed to doing a long-form release.
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: And there and there's two ways to look at that.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_02: Another reason why my record is the way that it is is because I thought about vinyl, right?
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: About vinyl.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: If vinyl is too long, that it starts to decrease how it sounds as far as quality.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_02: There's it's four songs on each side, and if you listen to the record, it's actually like two miniature albums.
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: There's an intro, there's the middle part, and there's the end.
• 26:36
  SPEAKER_02: And then it like begins again.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_02: Like on the second side, it's um waves, which which I actually had considered starting my whole record out with because the melody that I use has this very like awakening thing to it.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_02: And and then ending um ending the second side or the first side with Batman, it's like it's it feels like when you're watching a movie, that's like where the principal like um problem comes into play.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_02: Where it's like, okay, this is the issue, now we have to solve this issue and move forward.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like it just makes sense, and then it's four and four, and like it just made sense to me.
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: So, but to get back to what you were talking about is is I think one of the reasons that things have gotten into uh smaller uh time frames or whatnot is because people digest their music digitally, where they're making their own playlist.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_02: So another thing about my record is like it's like eight singles, kind of right because people are just pick and choose what they want, anyways.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like it's not like the days where you would go buy a CD or buy a tape, a tape would even be a better example where you buy a tape, you want that whole tape to be slapping because you're not trying to fucking rewind or you know, we've all had to do it.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: It's like fuck.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_02: So having a full length album really mattered, and particularly even further back with vinyl, where you're like, but even vinyl is easier because you could just pick it up and and put it back to where you wanted it.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_02: Tape, you have to really like wait for it to get there.
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: But today's day and age, everybody's just making their own playlist, doing their own things, this and that.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_02: So it makes sense.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, think of like the EDM world, like they they just release singles, it may be an EP, but it's almost never full-length albums.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_02: And one of the things where that's a thing, you know, there's always pros and cons to everything, but one of the pros to that, in in my estimation, is you get to stay on on uh on in time with everything quicker that way.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_02: Because if you're making an album and you're really putting a lot of time into it, that's gonna take you years realistically.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_02: So wherever the world was, your album is gonna be in a different space.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_02: Where like if you can just put that out on a SoundCloud, put it on B core, wherever you want it, you can make that thing and put it out, you know, next week if you want, you know what I mean?
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_02: And there's something cool about that, the immediacy of that.
• 28:58
  SPEAKER_02: There's definitely virtue to that.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_00: Totally agree.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: The physical copies look CD, that's going away.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and it has been going away for years.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_00: But um, people are really taking divinal again, and I think it's because of the ritualistic experience of putting a record on, putting the needle down, and listening to it from start to finish.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I think a lot of us are getting a lot pickier about what we're willing to invest into as far as physical copies for that exact reason.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: And you made a good point.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_00: You can pick up the needle and move it to another song anytime you want, but doesn't that kill the ritualistic experience of listening to a record?
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_02: Big time.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_02: So plus, yeah, this is the thing, like vinyl does sound different, whereas like MP3 and CD, it it's close, like it more or less, it's the same.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_02: But uh vinyl, particularly like if you have a good turntable and a good needle, vinyl is gonna crush digital like big time.
• 30:07
  SPEAKER_02: So you get the this this the fidelity of the sound, plus the big record, and like you're talking about the there's an intimacy to it, there's a whole experience to it.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_02: And I I think it's beautiful that vinyl came back because if digital would have came and just destroyed CD and tape and then just kept going that way, unless like lossless became really popular where people could listen to you know 36 bit 36-bit 96k, because that's for at least for my ears, when I would when I would say because I had a really nice needle, and I would sample vinyl, and that was when I couldn't tell.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: I would A B it when it was 36-bit, either 96k or or or higher.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_02: I don't remember I did it years ago, but I remember A Bing, and I couldn't tell.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_02: I was like, okay, this actually is a difference, or this is about the same.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_02: But when you do anything below that, I could tell because there's like some of the top end gets cut off, and it's just like there's just not a breath to it that's that's it's just not there anymore.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_02: So hopefully that comes.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_02: I mean the vinyl would be awesome because I still like that, but hopefully the the really high-end um bitrate comes, but I think it just would take up too much space or something on the curbers because like you're talking 30, 30, 36 bit, and that those high, that's like a lot of space that it takes as opposed to like an MP3 or MP4.
• 31:36
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I mean, it's like way more.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_02: But that's why we have vinyl.
• 31:41
  SPEAKER_02: So vinyl solved the problem, and I think it's beautiful that vinyl came back.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's just cooler.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's like vinyl would be like like digital is like a car, and vinyl is like riding a horse.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's just cool, it's romantic, you know.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_02: There's like a there's something about it, it's just more real.
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I guess because it's real.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas like digital is just zeros and ones.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's all it is.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: It's just an equation.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_02: There's an equation imprinted on your digital, whatever digital format you're using.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: It reads that equation and then it spits out a solution.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_02: Whereas vinyl, that shit's different.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_02: It's like it's pressed the same, but everybody's vinyl is gonna be a little different over time because it it physically exists in the real world.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: This is a funny thing.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's very quirky.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_00: Uh my friends and I have had debates about it, but different genres of music also sound different on vinyl as well.
• 32:35
  SPEAKER_00: At least that's my opinion.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: I want to hear this.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I love listening to jazz on vinyl, I love listening to hip-hop on vinyl, but I can't put on like a metal or heavy hard rock record on vinyl without wanting like to rip my ears out.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Interesting.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_00: And it and I love everything, and but I think it's because of the high-end impedience of some of the different styles of music, you know, where like blaring guitars might not sound as great, or I'm sorry, modern production of blaring guitars over compressed stuff doesn't sound as good as some of the warmer beats.
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_00: So, like you talked about hip-hop beats and how how that is the most important part of music for you.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_00: It is to me as a listener as well.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like if I'm not listening to throwback 80s, like Tears for Fears and the Cure and stuff, I'm listening to jazz and listening to hip-hop on vinyl.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: It just sounds different to me.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you're it's I'm sure it does.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: And but this is the thing, too, is that probably is in part due to you, I think of the needle that you're using, the turntable that you're using, the turntable preamp that you're using, the speaker thing too.
• 33:47
  SPEAKER_02: It's like so, like years ago, I had some pretty decent studio monitors years years ago.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: And I remember I got off tour and I had like a pretty big chunk of change.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, you know what?
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm pretty good with money though, I save my money pretty well, but I'll I'll spend money on more music stuff.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like I get that that um we all like spending money and buying things, you know what I mean?
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_02: Like it's an enjoyable experience.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: But when I funnel that towards more music equipment, it's easier for my brain to rationalize because I'm like, okay, I'm getting a treat, but I'm also helping my job and and in turn helping other people enjoy my music if if if they so choose to.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I bought like some pretty fucking expensive monitors, and I was wondering, I was like, is this gonna make a difference?
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, I guess we'll see.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_02: You know, I'm rolling the dice.
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: And I shit you not, it felt like I took like earplugs out.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: It was so much clearer.
• 34:40
  SPEAKER_02: I couldn't believe it.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like I was like, damn, I knew I had a feeling it would be better.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_02: Otherwise, I wouldn't have bought them if I if I didn't think it was gonna be better.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_02: Right, but not that much better.
• 34:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I had some pretty good monitors too.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_02: It wasn't like I was just with some home speaker stuff, it was like, it was crazy.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: So, long story short, metal might sound bad on your setup.
• 35:02
  SPEAKER_02: You see what I mean?
• 35:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: Like there might be a setup that you could hear metal vinyl and you're like, oh my god.
• 35:08
  SPEAKER_02: But whatever combination of all those factors you have, hip hop and jazz sounds better on it.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna listen to that.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: I'm gonna I'm gonna listen to my setup and see because I don't really listen to vinyl that off.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because if either I'm working on music or I'm reading or exercising, like I don't listen to music a lot on in my free time.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: And if I do, it's like classical off of my phone while I'm cooking or something, because I only have so many hours I can listen to music during the day.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_02: It's like otherwise I get burnt out, and I I feel like it makes the most sense for me to use that time to create new music.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um, that said though, I I probably should set aside like at least one time a week to like really like listen to some new music because and I I don't want to just sound like I never listen to new stuff because I certainly do.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_02: I find time to right.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_02: But maybe I probably should maybe a little bit more because you never want to lose the fan aspect, you know.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_02: It's like you gotta see what other people are doing.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_00: Man, you set up my next questions all too well, my friend.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like, because I was gonna ask, like, do you ever get to a point where you're making so much music that you avoid the opportunity to just be a fan again?
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_02: Oh yeah, big time.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, like I said, I feel like I have a quota of how much music I can listen to, and so that's usually mainly filled up with me making music.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: So in my free time, that's why reading is such a huge thing for me, because it's quiet.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_02: It's like I still get to be creative and like use my brain, and like I'm still interacting, but it's but it's silent, and so it creates it's just a really nice contrast to music.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_02: I recommend any musicians out there start reading a lot because not only is it a good counterbalance because of the silence, but I've noticed that since I've become a really avid reader, it's made my music making process easier because when you're reading, the thing about reading, even though it's a different medium, it's it's already sequenced out properly.
• 37:11
  SPEAKER_02: And good books, there's rhythm and there's harmony in it.
• 37:15
  SPEAKER_02: And it like gets your brain in that space.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_02: So when I start to write music, I'm like, it's like it's like an art, you know, when you see like basketball players and like the dudes are warming them up and stretching them out, you know, they're just sitting like, ah, and they're getting stretched out.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like when I read a book before I work on music, that's what happens.
• 37:34
  SPEAKER_02: Like the author stretched out my stretched me out, and then I can I sit down and like I'm already in a in a proper like mode because I've already got my head in a proper sequencing of of how of you know, you get what I'm saying.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like I'm kind of ramped.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, like no head in the right space.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: You you hit it dead on.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I typically reference it as heightening your mental acuity.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Like when you are feeding your brain something different constantly, you're able to focus on the other things a lot more attentively.
• 38:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you know what, like what what type of books are are you reading right now?
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_02: I read all science fiction and fantasy.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_02: Like all that's dope.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_02: I just like the creativity.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: Like, I want to go somewhere I can't go.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: Right?
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_02: So, and and maybe as I get older, I'll get more into other styles of books, and like, because there's something to be said, like, oh, this really happened.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: But I do like documentaries for that reason, because I'm like, oh, this really happened, and that's interesting in its own right.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_02: But for me, with reading, I really like diving into somebody else's creativity where they're just like, okay, this is what they can imagine, this is how far they can go.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_02: When you're reading a good book, it's like it's an intimate thing.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_02: You're like, and and when I really got into it is because of COVID, because I was cut off from everybody, I couldn't go anywhere, not building more relationships realistically.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: So it was like, well, what can I do?
• 39:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I was like, oh, I should start reading like religiously, because I'm gonna get it's gonna provide me a lot of things, and it did.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_02: And it's yeah, just like because fantasy and science fiction, it's like you really get to feel people's creativity because it's like, oh, like what about that?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: You know what I mean?
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_02: Because there's no rules, you know, it's just like if something is set in the real world where like it's got real world rules to it, and it's just not as appealing.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_02: At this point, it's not as appealing to me as science fiction and fantasy.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_02: So yeah, it's literally 100% science fiction fantasy.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: So let's uh let's talk about summer plans a little bit.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_00: You got a couple of festivals that you're doing.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_00: How excited are you for that?
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: Should be good.
• 39:47
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, I love performing, I love festivals.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: Um, there's always a good energy there.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_02: Is there always a fucking shit show to get in, and like it's weird like that.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: But once you get there, usually a really good energy.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_02: I like being outside if it's warm, you know, the fresh air, this and that.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_02: And really, I mean, I love performing.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, at the end of the day, I feel like I'm I could conquer a lot of jobs if I if I wanted to.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_02: It was like, I'm gonna become a business dude, or I'm gonna become a lawyer, or I'm gonna become I I feel like I have the mental capacity to challenge myself in any kind of way, and I know that I've established discipline that it would require to achieve those things.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_02: But this is the thing.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_02: Even if I made lots of money, you can't buy like performing.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_02: Like, no matter how rich I was, I can't get that.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: I need to go on stage and perform that energy that you get with the crowd, like, hey, check this out, and then going like, yeah, that's dope, and it's all going to that place.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_02: You can't buy that.
• 40:49
  SPEAKER_02: Like, you have you have to earn that.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_02: And and I really like that.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_02: And that still is why I'm doing what I'm doing.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_02: If that ever starts to go away, you'll see me doing something else with my life because that's that's really what it comes down to.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_02: And I mean, and that and coupled with when I'm making a beat and something clicks, and it's just like, oh, but even that is partially connected to how it's gonna resp, how the response will be to other people when they hear it.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: So it's like I get the, oh, but it's also like, oh, when they hear this, they're gonna, you know what I mean?
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_02: So it's it's really that connection with the audience that that I can't let go of because it's just so unique, and there's nowhere else to get it.
• 41:31
  SPEAKER_02: Like the only other thing that I've thought of doing, which I will do at some point, because I'm really into yoga, specifically hot yoga, like dramatically into hot yoga books, hot yoga music.
• 41:42
  SPEAKER_02: That's like those are my things.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_02: And uh I was like, if I become a yoga teacher, that would be kind of like that, because I could like still guide this energy with the people.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_02: And then I thought about I would make original music to my sequencing of my class so like all of the poses would match up with my original music, which is something that at some point I'll do, but I'll probably do it when I'm like am just really overtouring and like in a different space in my life, and that's probably how I'll fulfill like shows.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: I'll just do a show at the yoga studio with my yoga students.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_00: Oh man, I tell you what, I'm super excited.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna try and make it to the Red Rock show August 28th, Atmosphere Lupe Fiasco, the far side, you that that lineup is stellar.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: Start to finish, sir.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, it's great.
• 42:36
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's gonna be a wonderful time.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_02: Like Red Rocks, too, is one of those places.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, you could go see, you could go watch TV at Red Rocks, and you'd be like, right, this is dope.
• 42:44
  SPEAKER_02: Like, Red Rocks just has that magic to it.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_02: But then I d I do think that lineup is it's a strong lineup because it's like it's it's cohesive, but it's also expansive, if if that maybe you know what I mean?
• 42:58
  SPEAKER_02: Like, and so I think the the the combination of artists is strong.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_00: I when I saw that lineup come up, I was like, shit, I gotta make this happen.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, everybody, listen up.
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_00: Firstborn had its 21st anniversary or 20th anniversary.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually 21, isn't it?
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_02: The 21st, yeah.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_00: Re-released just recently, it was last month.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh check out that record, check out everything, check out Phonograph Phoenix DJ abilities.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: I want to say, on the behalf of as many rhymesayers fans out there, as many Idean Abilities fans out there, as many hip-hop fans out there, thank you for everything you've contributed to the culture man.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I appreciate you.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I think the world is a better place with you in it.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, thanks, man.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you very much.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_02: That means a lot.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_02: But I'm sitting here by myself hating my job and my decisions in life.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_02: It's that kind of shit that put powers me through because let me tell you, particularly when you're working on your own, like when I made Phonograph Phoenix, that's it's hard when you're by yourself.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_02: There's a lot of dog days where it's like, God damn.
• 44:06
  SPEAKER_02: But when I know people appreciate it and it's done, and it and it and it's it is truly appreciated like that, it does make it worth it.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_02: And and I will hold on to that, and that type of energy does help power me through it and keep creating.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: So thank you as well.
• 44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks, brother.
• 44:21
  SPEAKER_00: I want to once again thank my new friend DJ Abilities for this experience today.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: That was awesome.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_00: When we stopped recording, we talked for a little while longer, and I hope to have him on the podcast again very soon in the near future.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: Make sure you give him a follow on all forms of social media.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_00: Search out DJ Abilities and give Rhymestaires Entertainment a follow on all forms of social media as well.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: Special thanks to them for making the connection.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Please visit www.rhymestares.com.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're in the mood to give people a follow, please follow Caught on the Mic on all forms of social media Twitter, Facebook, Instagram, TikTok.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_00: Hit me up on my own website, www.caughton the mic.com.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_00: Please be generous with a five star review on the Apple Podcast app or give me a review on Spotify.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_00: This has been Caught on the Mike with Michael Clark.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Michael Clark.
• 45:20
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time, thank you.