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Karma Sutra For Senior Citizens And Other Poems On Aging From Poet Zach Rogow · Arroe Collins Like It's Live

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  Speaker 1: Hey, I've got an invitation for you to visit aero
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  Speaker 1: Right out of nowhere. They would say something, and you
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  Speaker 1: were stuck going what what? Something? Our parents would say.
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  Speaker 1: It's such a valuable tool even today only on ero
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  Speaker 1: dot net A R r oe dot net. Enjoy your exploration. Hello,
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  Speaker 1: and good morning party people. How's everybody doing good? How
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  Speaker 1: are you fantastic? What a beautiful day it is to
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  Speaker 1: have you on the on the line here, dude.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you so much for inviting me.
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  Speaker 1: Well, it's because you understand this present place of now
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  Speaker 1: and you've you've learned that path on how to get there,
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  Speaker 1: how to achieve it, and more importantly, how to remember it.
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  Speaker 1: And that's what I love about what you're doing on
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  Speaker 1: this journey.
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  Speaker 2: I appreciate that.
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  Speaker 1: How did you step onto that path because it just
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  Speaker 1: couldn't have come to you in the middle of the night,
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  Speaker 1: or maybe it did.
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  Speaker 3: Well, what part of it are we talking about? You mean,
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  Speaker 3: becoming a poet? Or writing this particular book.
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  Speaker 1: How about both of them, because you know, becoming a poet.
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  Speaker 1: I was on the Barnes and Noble tour for two
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  Speaker 1: and a half years with a bunch of writers and poets,
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  Speaker 1: and we work together on where poetry is. And I
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  Speaker 1: still believe that a lot of a lot of everyday
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  Speaker 1: average people are missing out on a lot of great
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  Speaker 1: life by ignoring the poetry section. And we need people
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  Speaker 1: like yourself who are going to bravely step out there
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  Speaker 1: and say, by the way, let me share with you
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  Speaker 1: a thought, not a book, but a thought, and it's
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  Speaker 1: going to take you through the rest of the book.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I like that you are talking about the importance
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  Speaker 3: of poetry, because well, it is Poetry Month for one thing,
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  Speaker 3: and I feel that poetry reaches parts of the human
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  Speaker 3: heart that no other art can really touch.
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  Speaker 1: So now, one of the things that I find so
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  Speaker 1: interesting about your book is that you know inside your
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  Speaker 1: heart this isn't just for seniors, that this is for
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  Speaker 1: all people, because I mean, everybody has questions about love,
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  Speaker 1: and you give people that opportunity to see a different
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  Speaker 1: side and to use words, and how we can use
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  Speaker 1: that opportunity to really kind of seize in the moment
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  Speaker 1: and create great memories.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I think maybe my favorite comment that anyone has
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  Speaker 3: made about this book is from the poet Tess Gallagher,
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  Speaker 3: who said, this book isn't just for seniors, It's for
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  Speaker 3: anyone who wants to feel what it is to be
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  Speaker 3: fully alive.
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  Speaker 2: And I was so moved when one of my favorite.
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  Speaker 3: Poets said this about the book, because there are so
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  Speaker 3: many things about love that are universal throughout our whole lifetimes.
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  Speaker 1: One of the things that you cover inside this book
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  Speaker 1: is that that you know, grandchildren do bring the parents
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  Speaker 1: of their parents some chaos in their life, and the
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  Speaker 1: goal is is that how can we get them to
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  Speaker 1: the poetry that most grandparents do write. We just tend
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  Speaker 1: to hide it and it goes into a box until
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  Speaker 1: the day of transition.
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  Speaker 3: Well, one of the things I've tried to write about
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  Speaker 3: in my book, The Commissature for Senior Citizens and other
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  Speaker 3: poems on aging is this experience of being a grandparent
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  Speaker 3: and seeing the.
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  Speaker 2: Whole cycle of life.
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  Speaker 3: And I think that that's one of the joys of aging.
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  Speaker 3: The book tries to deal with both the pain, both
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  Speaker 3: physical and mental, of aging, because we not only go
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  Speaker 3: through physical changes, but we lose friends and.
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  Speaker 2: Memories and so on.
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  Speaker 3: But also the book talks about in a very lighthearted
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  Speaker 3: way the things that are so fun about being older,
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  Speaker 3: and one of them is the chaos of grandchildren.
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  Speaker 1: In writing what, it's almost like that you've invited us
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  Speaker 1: into something that you have personally experienced. You are so
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  Speaker 1: genuine and transparent with this that you allow us to
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  Speaker 1: really kind of see ourselves.
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  Speaker 3: Zachary Well, I appreciate that because one of the things
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  Speaker 3: that I do write about in poetry is things that
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  Speaker 3: are very personal, and I feel like a lot of
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  Speaker 3: people have this sense that poetry is obscure or poetry
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  Speaker 3: is difficult, and.
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  Speaker 2: There is a lot of poetry like that.
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  Speaker 3: I admit that, but I try to write in a
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  Speaker 3: way that really relates to people's lives and the daily
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  Speaker 3: experience that a lot of people have.
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  Speaker 2: So I really appreciate that that resonated with.
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  Speaker 1: You in bringing the book forward. How many conversations did
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  Speaker 1: you have to have with yourself first? Only because when
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  Speaker 1: we're talking about love, I realize that it can be
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  Speaker 1: two or more people involved, but it has to start
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  Speaker 1: with self first. So therefore, what was that journey like
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  Speaker 1: for you as that writer and somebody who's embracing what
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  Speaker 1: love is.
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  Speaker 3: Well, that's a good question because one of the things
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  Speaker 3: that led to this book, The Commissarature for Senior Citizens
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  Speaker 3: and other poems on aging was that I became single
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  Speaker 3: when I was sixty six years old, and I never
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  Speaker 3: expected that to happen. So that was, in a sense
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  Speaker 3: the launching pad for this book, in the sense that
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  Speaker 3: suddenly I was having these experiences, both emotional and physical
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  Speaker 3: in terms of aging, that were very strong, and I
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  Speaker 3: had to process them in some way. In poetry is
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  Speaker 3: wonderful in that it allows us these moments where we
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  Speaker 3: can express what's happening and also come to some understanding
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  Speaker 3: about it.
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  Speaker 1: So let me ask you this question about poetry because
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  Speaker 1: my wife, she's very open with how she feels about
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  Speaker 1: my poetry. In the way she goes, don't cross out
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  Speaker 1: the words. Let me see where you change. But don't
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  Speaker 1: cross out the words that you that you felt didn't fit,
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  Speaker 1: because to another reader they're very very important. How do
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  Speaker 1: you feel about that? Are you crossing out words?
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  Speaker 2: Do you?
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  Speaker 1: How do you deal with editing?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I'm the kind of editor who doesn't look back.
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  Speaker 3: Usually I don't keep multiple copies of a poem. If
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  Speaker 3: I make a change, there's kind of no going back
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  Speaker 3: at that point, So I do many, many giraffes of
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  Speaker 3: my poems. But once I've made a change, I feel
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  Speaker 3: like it's a change for the better, I hope. And
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  Speaker 3: I also show my work to a lot of people.
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  Speaker 3: Yesterday I met with my poetry group. I have a
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  Speaker 3: wonderful group of poets and we meet once a month
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  Speaker 3: and we get together and we have a kind of
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  Speaker 3: a round table where everybody reads their recent work and
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  Speaker 3: we talk about what we like and what we feel
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  Speaker 3: could be better. And I find other people's opinions so
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  Speaker 3: crucial to being a good editor, because you can't see
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  Speaker 3: everything from one point of view. One of my favorite
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  Speaker 3: places in the world is that garden in Kyoto that
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  Speaker 3: has it's a Japanese rock garden, and it has these
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  Speaker 3: white pebbles that are raked into kind of like waves,
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  Speaker 3: and in between the pebbles there are these black stones,
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  Speaker 3: and it's impossible to see any of the black stones,
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  Speaker 3: all of the black stones, from any one vantage point.
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  Speaker 3: And I feel like editing poetry or anything, or getting
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  Speaker 3: better at anything is like that. You can't see it
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  Speaker 3: all from your own vantage point. You need other people's
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  Speaker 3: input to improve your work, and the more you can
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  Speaker 3: listen to that, the better you are a as a writer.
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  Speaker 1: I feel, well, it says a lot about you in
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  Speaker 1: the way of having courage to be able to be
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  Speaker 1: open with other writers as well as having the confidence
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  Speaker 1: to believe in them as well, because you're right, we
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  Speaker 1: all do believe that we can write a piece of poetry,
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  Speaker 1: but is it effective poetry? And I'm very interested to
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  Speaker 1: find out what you do for exercises, because what I
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  Speaker 1: did at Barnes and Nobles is is that I would
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  Speaker 1: have them sit in the poetry section and tell me
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  Speaker 1: everything that goes on in that area for fifteen minutes.
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  Speaker 1: Of course, they came back and said nobody came in there,
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  Speaker 1: And I said, okay, what are you going to add
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  Speaker 1: to it?
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  Speaker 2: Then?
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  Speaker 1: How are we going to get people to your book?
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  Speaker 1: Do you do that in the way of just open
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  Speaker 1: them up and allow them to feel what is going
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  Speaker 1: on in our presence of Now.
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  Speaker 2: Well, that's a great question. I feel.
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  Speaker 3: One of the ways that you learn the trust and
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  Speaker 3: engagement of a reader is through humor, and a lot
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  Speaker 3: of poets don't necessarily put.
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  Speaker 2: Humor in their work.
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  Speaker 3: I feel like humor is absolutely essential to art. And
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  Speaker 3: if you sit through a play and you just kind
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  Speaker 3: of watch the audience and not necessarily the play, you
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  Speaker 3: will see that it's that moment when the audience feels
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  Speaker 3: they have permission to laugh, even at a moment in
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  Speaker 3: an early stage of a tragedy, that allows the readers
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  Speaker 3: of the audience to relax and trust the writer and
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  Speaker 3: feel that they can engage deeply with the experience of
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  Speaker 3: what they're hearing or reading.
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  Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with zach Rogo coming
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  Speaker 1: up next, the name of the book, The Karma Sutra
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  Speaker 1: for Senior Citizens and other poems on aging. We are
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  Speaker 1: back with poet Zach Rogo. I would love to be
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  Speaker 1: a part of a focus group when it comes to
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  Speaker 1: people reading your book. And the reason why is because, yes,
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  Speaker 1: it is geared toward the gray haired club, which er
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  Speaker 1: but anyway, the but I you know, the seniors. But
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  Speaker 1: the thing is, though, is that as seniors get older,
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  Speaker 1: what do we do. We become a little bit more
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  Speaker 1: silent and we allow us sounds to be our words.
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  Speaker 1: For instance, like with my grandmother, she would just sit
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  Speaker 1: there and go mm mm mmm mmm, mmm, And I
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  Speaker 1: would love to know the sounds that people are making
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  Speaker 1: when they finish a piece of your poetry, because I
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  Speaker 1: bet the going oh. In other words, they're receiving something
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  Speaker 1: that gets the emotion from the inside of the soul
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  Speaker 1: without having to say one single word because you said it.
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  Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting you said that, because I did a
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  Speaker 3: reading the other night from this book, and you can
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  Speaker 3: feel palpably as you were saying. The reaction of an
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  Speaker 3: audience how they breathe after the poem, and it's different
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  Speaker 3: depending on the emotional charge of the poem. Like if
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  Speaker 3: a poem is funny, that's one reaction. If a poem
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  Speaker 3: makes you reflect, that's another reaction. If a poem touches
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  Speaker 3: you in a way that makes you sad or that
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  Speaker 3: gives you that pathos, that's a whole nother breath that
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  Speaker 3: the audience takes after a poem. So all of those
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  Speaker 3: things matter to me as a writer. And I like
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  Speaker 3: all those responses.
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  Speaker 1: You said something and I just feel like that my
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  Speaker 1: heart is saying, you got to go back to it,
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  Speaker 1: and that is is that you said that you became
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  Speaker 1: single at the age of sixty six, and my heart
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  Speaker 1: was saying that at sixty six you should be surrounded
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  Speaker 1: or you were surrounded by a ton of people. So
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  Speaker 1: I know that there are listeners that are going to
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  Speaker 1: be our age and they're going to be going, well,
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  Speaker 1: what did he do at sixty six if he's surrounded
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  Speaker 1: by so much love, by friends and family and people
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  Speaker 1: he's going to meet today, and then now he's in
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  Speaker 1: this situation. Because I want people to be able to
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  Speaker 1: feel exactly what you're talking about, because you you looked
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  Speaker 1: at the storm, you walked into the storm. You're leading
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  Speaker 1: people to go find their peace. Dude.
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  Speaker 3: Well, I do talk in The Common Searcher for Senior
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  Speaker 3: Citizens and other poems on aging my new book about
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  Speaker 3: the loneliness. You know, there was a very great loneliness
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  Speaker 3: that I felt when I became single at that age,
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  Speaker 3: and that is, in a sense, one of the starting
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  Speaker 3: points of the book. But it's also a reflection on
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  Speaker 3: what I felt that I had gathered or appreciated about
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  Speaker 3: my life up to that point. So even though the
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  Speaker 3: relationship I was in that led to my being single ended,
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  Speaker 3: I didn't want to trash that relationship. I wanted to
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  Speaker 3: appreciate what was good about it. So the beginning of
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  Speaker 3: the book is about both what happened that led to
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  Speaker 3: me being single, but also appreciating what was good about
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  Speaker 3: it and appreciating what in my childhood my mother gave
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  Speaker 3: me because I was the child of a single mother,
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  Speaker 3: not through any fault of her own, and what she
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  Speaker 3: taught me about love that has stayed with me my
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  Speaker 3: whole life.
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  Speaker 1: Isn't that amazing how mothers do that? Because I mean,
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  Speaker 1: I swear to God that my relationship with my wife
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  Speaker 1: right now is do one hundred percent because of the
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  Speaker 1: way my mother loved my father. And it's because I mean,
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  Speaker 1: it served as that mile marker, and I mean the dancing,
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  Speaker 1: to having fun together, the holding on to hands. And
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  Speaker 1: then and yet my heart swells to hear that you
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  Speaker 1: were alone by sixty six. And it's like, Okay, what
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  Speaker 1: can we do for Zachary here as a community, Let's
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  Speaker 1: let's figure out a way to get him somebody who
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  Speaker 1: can see he can start sharing with again. And then
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  Speaker 1: what do you do? You write a book and you
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  Speaker 1: share it with the world. Oh, my god, Zachary.
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  Speaker 3: Well please call me Zach by the way, I publish
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  Speaker 3: under the name Zach Roco.
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  Speaker 2: And well, the book has a happy ending.
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  Speaker 3: You know, after seventy five first dates on the dating apps,
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  Speaker 3: I did find a new partner.
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  Speaker 2: And one of.
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  Speaker 3: The fun things about the book is that there are
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  Speaker 3: love poems in the book, and there are love poems
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  Speaker 3: about falling in love as a senior, which it's different
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  Speaker 3: because you know, both of you have histories at that point,
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  Speaker 3: and you've learned how to love and now not to
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  Speaker 3: love at that age. So it's very different from falling
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  Speaker 3: in love when you're a teenager and everything is a
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  Speaker 3: sort of a waterfall of emotions and hormones. You know,
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  Speaker 3: it's a different kind of experience, but it's also beautiful
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  Speaker 3: in it some way.
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  Speaker 1: Well, speaking of beautiful, your voice does not sound like
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  Speaker 1: that it's up there in those years. You sound like
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  Speaker 1: you're a twenty one year old. So you look at
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  Speaker 1: what writing does to the core of your soul. It
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  Speaker 1: makes you vibrate with that young feeling. But yet you're
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  Speaker 1: carrying with you the honest transparency of what it's like
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  Speaker 1: to be up there. It's almost like you're bringing it
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  Speaker 1: back to those who are just falling in love right now.
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  Speaker 2: Well I hope so.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, one of the things about a love poem
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  Speaker 3: is it's something you can share with someone.
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  Speaker 2: You know.
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  Speaker 3: There's this famous story about the great South American writer
• 15:02
  Speaker 3: Pablo Naruta, who wrote a very beautiful book called Twenty
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  Speaker 3: Love Poems and a Song of Despair. And he was
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: in a bar in Santiago, Chile, which is where he
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  Speaker 3: went to college, and some guy, some tough guy in
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  Speaker 3: the bar was was kind of picking on him, and
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  Speaker 3: you know, called him out and told him to come
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  Speaker 3: outside the bar and he was going to beat him up.
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  Speaker 3: And sure enough, he was going to beat him up
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  Speaker 3: because this guy was much bigger and stronger than Pablo Naruta.
• 15:33
  Speaker 3: And so they go out in the alley and the
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  Speaker 3: tough guy looks at Neruda and he says, you're Pablo Neruda.
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  Speaker 3: You wrote that book of love poems. My girlfriend and
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  Speaker 3: I read that book together, and then he let him go.
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  Speaker 2: You know. So you know, there's something.
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  Speaker 3: About a love poem that can that other people can
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  Speaker 3: share that that appeals to me greatly.
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  Speaker 1: Let me ask a question here real fast about your poetry.
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  Speaker 1: Is there any of those poems that you could take
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  Speaker 1: and let it grow into a novel. And the reason
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  Speaker 1: why I bring that up is because one of my
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  Speaker 1: last pieces of poetry. It was called the Sadest Song
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  Speaker 1: I've ever had to write, became a book about John Lennon.
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  Speaker 1: And so therefore I ask another poet, is there a
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  Speaker 1: piece of poetry that you have that you know is
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  Speaker 1: far greater and far bigger than just a piece of poetry?
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  Speaker 1: And I don't mean that anything negative. I just mean
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  Speaker 1: that it's like, oh my god, you can grow this
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  Speaker 1: in another farmer's field and get even bigger fruit.
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  Speaker 3: Well, if someone can write a novel based on one
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  Speaker 3: of my poems, more power too.
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  Speaker 2: I don't think I can.
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  Speaker 3: My way of thinking as a writer has to do
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  Speaker 3: with these moments that stand out, and the moment tells
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  Speaker 3: a whole story.
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  Speaker 2: In the way a novel does.
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  Speaker 3: But nice it sort of opens up a past and
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  Speaker 3: a future, but only in that two minutes that it
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  Speaker 3: takes to read a poem.
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  Speaker 2: I'm wondering if I should read one of my poems.
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  Speaker 1: If you've got it inside your soul, I would feel
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  Speaker 1: so blessed if you would share one.
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  Speaker 2: Thank you. I think I will.
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  Speaker 3: I'm going to read from my book The Commisature for
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  Speaker 3: Senior Citizens and Other Aging, a poem about falling in
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  Speaker 3: love as an older person.
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  Speaker 2: It's called other times.
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  Speaker 3: We might have met Ooh, we might have met when
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  Speaker 3: we were seventeen, when we didn't even know how it
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  Speaker 3: felt to touch a body unlike our own. We could
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  Speaker 3: have snuck from the floral sofa to your bedroom while
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  Speaker 3: the parents were snoring, and spent the whole night exploring
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  Speaker 3: new landscapes. Or we could have met after college, when
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  Speaker 3: bosses and mortgages were our treasured worries. We might have
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  Speaker 3: made a child then, with your azureite eyes and the soft,
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  Speaker 3: wiry brown hair I still had.
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  Speaker 2: In those years.
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  Speaker 3: Or we could have encountered each other right after our divorces,
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  Speaker 3: when our kids were puzzling over algebraic expressions or practicing
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  Speaker 3: jazz trombone. We happen to meet now, though, when the
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  Speaker 3: children have scattered to their own homes, when more about
• 18:13
  Speaker 3: me is a wrinkle than my sheets, when our bodies
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: still glow with a beauty that once blazed, but without
• 18:21
  Speaker 3: having lived through love gone sour, would we have understood
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: how rare our meeting is. Like finding a beach stippled
• 18:31
  Speaker 3: with scallop shells, all split, chipped, cracked, crushed, and then
• 18:37
  Speaker 3: lifting one complete one out of the sand and rinsing
• 18:42
  Speaker 3: it in a clear sheet of water.
• 18:45
  Speaker 2: Oh my god.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: Oh this you know, as a writer, I can the
• 18:50
  Speaker 1: hopefully you'll understand this. You can paint a room. You
• 18:53
  Speaker 1: know how to paint a room, and I mean you
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: bring it forward. We envision it, we see it, we
• 18:58
  Speaker 1: smell it, we can feel the texture of what's going
• 19:01
  Speaker 1: on in the air. That is absolutely stunning.
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Thank you so much.
• 19:08
  Speaker 3: You know, it's funny that you said you can smell it,
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: because I do think that, you know, good writing appeals
• 19:15
  Speaker 3: to all the five senses. And I have a blog
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: also called Advice to Writers, which you know as if
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: you look for my name Zach Rogo and Advice to Writers,
• 19:27
  Speaker 3: you'll find my blog.
• 19:28
  Speaker 2: And one of the blogs.
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: I enjoy the most is one that was guest written
• 19:33
  Speaker 3: by a writer named Nancy Lord, who was at one
• 19:35
  Speaker 3: time the writer Laurian of the State of Alaska. And
• 19:39
  Speaker 3: she wrote this wonderful blog about the sense of smell
• 19:43
  Speaker 3: in writing. And it's true that you know, when you're
• 19:46
  Speaker 3: a writer, you have to really stimulate all the senses
• 19:50
  Speaker 3: of the reader.
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: Wow, You've got to come back to this show anytime
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: in the future. I love that your party is Zach,
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: I really do love it, and we need to get
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: more word out there about poetry.
• 20:03
  Speaker 2: I would love that. I'm enjoying this conversation and.
• 20:08
  Speaker 3: You kind of took me by surprise because you know,
• 20:10
  Speaker 3: I dialed the number and then suddenly we were talking
• 20:13
  Speaker 3: and it was a very stimulating way to begin a discussion.
• 20:17
  Speaker 2: So I'd be very happy to do this again.
• 20:19
  Speaker 1: Oh I love it, man, Will you stay beautiful?
• 20:21
  Speaker 3: Okay, I'm going to try, and I hope people will
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: look for my book The Commisature for Senior Citizens and
• 20:29
  Speaker 3: other poems on aging.
• 20:30
  Speaker 2: And this is Zach Rogo and so happy to be
• 20:34
  Speaker 2: in conversation with you. Thank you.