Latest / Caught on the Mike... / Scott Barber- Documentarian: This is GWAR, The Orange Years

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Scott Barber- Documentarian: This is GWAR, The Orange Years · Caught on the Mike...

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Disclaimer: The views and opinions expressed in this program are those of the speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions of any entities they represent.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Listener discretion is advised.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's comforting, and when it is paired with a good sense of nostalgia, it can fix any problems you're experiencing at any moment in time.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_01: My next guest is a documentarian that so far has been able to capture that lightning in the bottle, whether it be through his Nickelodeon documentary called The Orange Bears or the documentary about the band War called This is Guar.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: His next project is a project called Game Changer.
• 0:58
  SPEAKER_01: It is a series about retro gaming with film more from Nick Arcade.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Filmmaker Scott Barber joins me on the podcast today.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: We talk all things nostalgia plus much more.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, this is Caught on the Mike.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, as you know, music and pop culture are the backbone of Caught on the Mic.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: I have fighters on my show, fitness people, paranormal experts, documentarians, actors, actresses, everybody from all walks of life, but it always kind of circles back to people I share a kinship with, specifically in the world of music.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: Now, my next guest, he is the director and creator of a few documentaries, a few you may have heard of, The Orange Years, which is a documentary about Nickelodeon.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: No, not that documentary about Nickelodeon, a more wholesome one about the years that predate some of the controversy.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: I watched it last night.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_01: I was smiling from ear to ear as soon as it was done.
• 2:08
  SPEAKER_01: And he's also directed a film called This Is Guar, about the band Guar.
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_01: And that is equally as fantastic.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: And as a music lover, you know I am totally into it.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_01: His next project is a project called Game Changers.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh features Phil Moore from Nickelodeon's Nick Arcade.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: They are doing a Kickstarter to crowdfund the project.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: Ladies and gentlemen, Scott Barber joins me on Caught on the Mic today.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: How are you, man?
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: I'm doing great.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for having me.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited.
• 2:38
  SPEAKER_00: Like you said, we had a lot, we have a lot in common.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I think there's a lot to talk about, a lot to go over.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_01: What's funny is um what pointed me to you was a mutual friend of ours, Taylor Morden, the director of Pick It Up Ska in the 90s, and the last blockbuster posted your Kickstarter yesterday.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, oh shit, I gotta talk to this guy.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so I just reached out to you through Facebook and we made this happen pretty quick.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, we did.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_01: So how did you know Taylor?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: Is it just from the uh the documentary community or the film community?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, I I do that a lot where if I see somebody that is like other filmmakers that are doing cool stuff, I'll just reach out to them kind of the same way we found each other and just say, hey, I I really like what you did.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_00: You want to chit-chat sometime, just talk, see if I can help you, you can help me.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_00: And uh obviously, you know, Taylor is the the king of crowdfunds, so uh he's given me some advice on this.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but yeah, the the last time I had spoken to him was when he was uh he had just wrapped up The Last Blockbuster, and that was getting ready to come out, which that's a great one, um, for sure.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah, so that I met another guy, Tommy Avellone, that way.
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you know him.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_00: He did uh the uh the Bill Murray stories, and he just did one about uh Barney, why why everybody hates on Barney so much uh for Peacock.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, that's that that's how I met him.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: That's fantastic.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: It is kind of a small world, and the thing that connects the three of us is we're we're all musicians as well.
• 4:12
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I did my time in the band world, and you know, we could talk about that, and Taylor did his time in the band world.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: You know, whenever I watched his movie Pick It Up Ska in the 90s, there were a lot of themes that really clicked with me.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the thing that I've noticed about his films and your films, and just kind of the content that I create, is um, as musicians, we dip our toes into a lot of different portions of pop culture, whether it be retro video games, Nickelodeon, Guar.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, what are some of the things that you're into that kind of inspire you?
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: I like weird stuff, I guess that's what I would I would say.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_00: I like uh I like stuff that both is kind of, you know, stuff that everybody can relate to, but also has a niche kind of at the same time, you know, and that's really like uh this is Guar.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: That was my second documentary.
• 5:08
  SPEAKER_00: On one hand, it looks very niche.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_00: They're this band that dresses up as monsters and and sprays the audience with blood and guts and all sorts of stuff.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it also their story is something that everyone can kind of relate to, even kind of the stuff we've already talked about.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, these do you stay true to your dream?
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_00: What how hard do you want to stay?
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: How hard do you want to go with that?
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, at what point will you back away?
• 5:32
  SPEAKER_00: And uh at what point will you say, no, I'm I'm gonna keep going through all this?
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um and what if you're presented with that golden ticket of, hey, if you just change what you're doing, I can make you a millionaire.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_00: What would we do if we were in that position?
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the whole idea of do you follow your dreams or do you make money?
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's something a lot of people can relate to.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, with a lot of this, and even with you know, the new show that you mentioned, Game Changers, I'm really excited to talk about that with Phil Moore from Nickelodeon, uh, Nick Arcade.
• 6:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that's what we want to do with that one.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_00: You know, yeah, everyone can kind of go, oh, retro uh video games.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's kind of what hooks you and gets you in.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah, I played Nintendo, I played arcades, I played Atari, whatever, PlayStation.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_00: But then once you're there, it's like the human story of these people that were creating this.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's why it's called game changers, you know, video games, but also people that changed the whole industry in a way, you know, somebody that did something that had never been done before at the time.
• 6:27
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it sounds like your affinity for making documentaries is very similar to mine with podcasting.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like taking that onion and peeling the layers back because there's so much more.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_01: The story behind the story is sometimes as fascinating as the story itself.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And totally, yeah.
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_01: So, how did you land on this path?
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: What's kind of your origin story?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, I had gone to school for uh acting, and uh I kind of did that, and I so I kind of made some movies with uh my friends up in Dallas, one of them, Jared Costa, who's also working on game changers.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the kind of idea what Dallas is very, you know, it's it's I don't want to say conservative, but it's more like industrial, commercial, like not as artsy.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to throw any shade.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of cool stuff that comes out of there, but I just wasn't, it wasn't right for me.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we were just making our own stuff.
• 7:26
  SPEAKER_00: We're like, let's just make our own movies, you know, and then and then we I I can be in them, you know, cast myself the way I want to.
• 7:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh I kind of fell in love with that more, you know, we're writing and directing and cinematography.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of like that a lot more than trying to act.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of realized that wasn't for me.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_00: So I started doing that, and then uh I became a father and a husband, and I said, Oh my God, the only skills I have are artistic.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_00: How am I gonna make any money?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_00: So uh I just kind of started a uh video production business, making whatever I could, you know, for money uh within reason, within legality.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, you know, I just I did that.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, then once it worked out well, you know, me and my wife had our own video production business.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh after we were kind of settled financially stabled, I kind of said, well, you know, I want to make a movie now that I know that I can, now that I know my family's taken care of.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_00: But how do you make a movie if you don't have a ginormous budget?
• 8:23
  SPEAKER_00: And I'd always been a fan of documentaries.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: I said, Well, I could, I know I can make a documentary because I was kind of doing that for other people.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'd I'd do like a corporate gig where I'd go interview a bunch of people and then splice, splice it all together in a little promo video.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, that's really the same thing, just on a bigger, cooler scale.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: So uh me and my friend Adam, uh, who had grown up together, and Nickelodeon just meant a lot to us growing up.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_00: We kind of said, Well, if we're gonna make a documentary, let's make something we're passionate about.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_00: So Nickelodeon was something we were passionate about, and we kind of did some research and said, okay, there's actually a story here, more than just member berries.
• 9:03
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and so we just did it.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: We we crowdfunded it and then we we did it, uh, jumped in just head first with no parachute at all, which look, you know, hindsight's 2020.
• 9:14
  SPEAKER_00: Looking at it now, I'm like, that was so stupid.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: But it wasn't because it worked out.
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, we didn't have anybody booked.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't know anybody at Nickelodeon.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but you know, we made that, and then kind of as that was wrapping up, um, you know, I'd always been a fan of Guar.
• 9:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was making a list of things that would be cool to do a documentary about that hasn't already been done, and Guar was one of them.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_00: And randomly one of my friends was opening up for Guar.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: His name's Rocky Moon.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: He's in a band called American Sharks, and he was like, Oh, I know those guys.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_00: I had Thanksgiving at their house one year.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that was actually what kind of made me want to do like my vision for the documentary was just thinking about Thanksgiving with Guar.
• 9:55
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what are these guys like outside of what you know you know about them as these, you know, the story is that they're these, you know, space monsters that came to Earth.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: They hate Earth, they want to kill us all.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: So their concerts are kind of like a little mini musical almost.
• 10:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's acting and there's dinosaurs and all robots that come out.
• 10:14
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so it just worked out really well that I was able to go right from one to the other because he hooked me up with them and I talked to them, and they kind of decided I was the right guy for the job.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: And so we did This Is Guar.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_00: That was an amazing experience.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um so awesome getting to work on that.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: I feel so honored.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_00: And uh that one came out, it debuted at Fantastic Fest, which was really cool.
• 10:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'd always been a fan of Fantastic Fest, uh, big fan of horror and all that stuff.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_00: And so to get to debut there was super cool.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: Unfortunately, COVID happened, so the fest was like we were gonna do this whole thing, like Guar was gonna be there.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: We were gonna do guaraokie, um where people would do karaoke while they're getting sprayed with blood and stuff.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: But the whole thing had to be scaled back because of of COVID, unfortunately.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_00: But it was still amazing.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then uh we sold that one to Shudder, so that's on Shudder and AMC Plus, and those Shudder, I've been a fan of that since it came out.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_00: And so to get to work with them and to get to see, I mean, they're they're hands down, the of all the distribute distributors and streamers I've ever worked with, uh, they've been not even close, the best, so awesome, and have taken taken care of us, even though they're they could they're smaller than some of the other ones.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_00: They've they've actually treated us with respect.
• 11:32
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I just couldn't say enough good stuff about those guys.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I uh I had Steven Cognetti, the director of Hellhouse LLC, on my show this last fall, and I love I love found footage horror myself.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and so I love that that whole uh that whole series and that whole franchise.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_01: And uh yeah, Shudder is fantastic because he's partnered with them now as well.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_01: And gosh, they they are such a great network.
• 12:00
  SPEAKER_01: I couldn't recommend people that are just listening to this that want to be entertained, subscribe to that platform.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: You can subscribe through Amazon Prime and uh what have you, but that's awesome.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: So from these things that have happened and kind of delineating these experiences a little bit, you know, getting to meet and work with Weird Al and Alex Winter, and what's been kind of the most awestruck you've been so far?
• 12:29
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's really this journey is really just kind of starting out for you.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Mm-hmm.
• 12:34
  SPEAKER_00: God, that's so hard to say.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, because that's one thing I I kind of like to say is like that's your payment.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, obviously we're not getting rich making documentaries, uh, but to be able to say, yeah, I've met Alex Winter, I met Ethan Embry, I met Keenan Thompson, I met Weird Al is uh Thomas Lennon is is awesome.
• 12:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I I don't know, you know, there's certain people that are really famous, you know, and the Nickelodeon one, even people that aren't really technically that famous, but they're famous to me because I grew up watching them.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a guy named uh Danny Cooksie who was on uh Salute Your Shorts.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: And he was also the redheaded kid uh with a mullet in Terminator 2, John Connor's friend, who doesn't sell him out.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like we're all only alive because you know, whenever uh Robert Patrick asked him, Have you seen this boy?
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_00: He said no.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but he was in a band called Bad for Good that I was into when I was a little kid because they were little kids too.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was Steve Vai put together uh a group of kid musicians, and he was the singer.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_00: Check him out, it's really funny.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_00: But unfortunately, their uh album came out in 1991, and they were kind of this kid hair metal band, whoops, wrong time.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: But uh so that was really cool to get to meet him because I loved uh him as a musician.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_00: I loved him uh, you know, he was in Terminator 2, he was Budnik on Salute Your Shorts, he was like the metal kid on Salute Your Shorts.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: So if I had to say, I would say the Weird Owl one, and I'll and I'll tell you why.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because there's so many people that it's all a tie, you know.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, right Alex Winter uh from Bill and Tet, that's insane.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: And also he's a he's a great documentary filmmaker.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, he just did one on YouTube.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: His stuff is amazing.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: So the only reason I'll say Weird Al uh beat some of the other ones because it's not it's not just about the person.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_00: We interviewed Weird Al in this recording studio in LA, um, where uh the Beach Boys recorded pet sounds and um like the Foo Fighters, it's like the the recording studio.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: One of our producers, Bill Parks, uh he he lives in LA and he's really good at finding locations.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Yeah, my friend has a studio, he's gonna let us use it for Weird Al.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of a nice studio.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, okay, cool.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's a nice studio.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: And then I get there and I was like, oh, this isn't a nice studio.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_00: This is like the nice studio.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Like all that stuff, like Mamas and the Papas and all that stuff.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: So wasn't that Sound City?
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's not Sound City, it's like North, it's changed names recently.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_00: I want to say like North by Northwest.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, there's a really funny video where the um Foo Fighters recorded concrete uh and gold there.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_00: And there's a really funny video of uh of Dave Grohl talking about what it's like.
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Yeah, I was in the bathroom and next to me was Sean from Boys to Men.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, hey, what's up, dude?
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_00: You want to be on our album?
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_00: And then he's like, Oh, and then Kenny G was in there.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Hey, you want to come be on our album?
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Justin Timberlake was there.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like, that kind of shows you what it's like that just you'll run into all these different people there.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, because everybody records there.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so uh, and then we were there with our little uh documentary crew.
• 15:47
  SPEAKER_00: So that was pretty cool when Weird Al came in to see him be starstruck because he comes in and he's one, he's so nice, you know.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's one where, like, I mean, Weird Al, what a if you're an 80s kid, what a what a hero, you know?
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_00: And to see him be so nice and so kind, he didn't come with a posse, he came by himself.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, with with with documentaries, we always say, you know, we'll feed you, we'll provide transportation, we'll provide hair and makeup.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, dude, I don't need any of that, you know, and it's like, man, like you could command that.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Keenan Thompson was the same way, you know.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_00: Keenan Thompson's huge.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_00: That was for the Nickelodeon one.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_00: He was like, no, man, I'm just gonna come by and have a good time.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: But um, when he sees the, you know, that they keep the the pet sounds um record there on the mixing board uh there at the studio.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Oh, what's up with this?
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_00: And we're like, oh, this is where they recorded it.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like, Oh, really?
• 16:42
  SPEAKER_00: So that was that was just kind of like a double awestruck thing there.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why that one wins out.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I think that is kind of another similarity between like podcasting and uh doing documentaries because I've had several experiences like that.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm four years deep into this podcast, and I've had similar uh experiences like that where you get to humanize people that you would otherwise idolize.
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's there is a saying that goes, uh, don't ever meet your heroes because they're only going to let you down.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I gotta say, I've had the opposite experience.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like you sit down and you have a conversation with them and you talk to them like a human being, you give them an opportunity that you know traditional press and traditional media doesn't give them as a documentarian and as a podcaster.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_02: Mm-hmm.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, is that I 100% agree.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we actually used to say the same thing when we were working on Nickelodeon because that was all childhood heroes, right?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_00: We were interviewing all people from our childhood who you know you can definitely idolize, you know.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um because it's it's different.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's from when you were a kid.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And everybody on that film was awesome.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like every single person, Keenan Thompson, so nice, so cool.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, for that guy to I mean, you know, he's on not only is he really famous, he's also on Saturday Night Live.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that dude's like busy.
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, for him to come by and then at the end he's like, hey y'all, thanks for making this.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think this is gonna be really cool.
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_00: And we're like, Thank us, like, no, dude, like you just made our documentary by by doing this.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, Mark Summers, that's a huge one for me as an 80s.
• 18:17
  SPEAKER_00: And he was like the first one we interviewed.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and he was so nice and so cool.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then obviously, you know, Phil Moore, uh, who we got to interview, he was Nick Arcade.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: That was like the jam, you know, it was like an 80s, 90s.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_00: It was like it was early 90s, so it still had that vibe of the 80s where you know kids would uh play video games, like a game show, but they got to play video games, and Phil was the host, and he was such a good host.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: He kind of was the spiritual successor to Mark Summers.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know how Mark wasn't just double dare, he was like the Nickelodeon guy, like when they needed somebody to just like introduce Nickelodeon Studios in Florida as opening up.
• 18:55
  SPEAKER_00: Well, when Mark left, Phil took that place, like he was like the Nickelodeon guy.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, to get to meet him was super cool, and also just the fact that, you know, I was obviously by what I'm working on, Game Changers, uh, a docuseries about video games.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_00: I was a huge video game kid.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_00: And so to get to meet him was super, super cool.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then getting to work on this was even cooler because you know, we interview him, so I have like about an hour with him, you know, we talk before and after, and then I email everybody to keep them in the loop about what's happening.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: But with this to get to like brainstorm and work with him on stuff and see his passion for video games firsthand is uh is so cool.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_01: That's yeah, so cool.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_01: That's great because that's exactly where I was gonna go with that is because of this Nickelodeon experience, you got to build a relationship, not just not just okay, I've interviewed you, one and done, we're we're done here.
• 19:46
  SPEAKER_01: You got to build a relationship with the childhood hero that you're now working with.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_01: So let's kind of get in the weeds on game changers and what really inspired that because retro gaming has definitely uh blown up even bigger than what it was in the post-COVID world.
• 20:04
  SPEAKER_01: You know, people were looking for things to do, so collecting shit kind of kind of became the thing.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_01: Totally.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: So, so how did what was the genesis of that idea and kind of where are you at on the process?
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: And kind of give us a big overhead on what game changers is all about.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah, you know, um, I'm obvious a fan of like retro stuff of of of um archival footage documentaries, and I love video games, and so I I I like to do stuff that I'm passionate about, not just stuff that I think will sell.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_00: And um so I kind of had been kicking that idea around for a while.
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, how come nobody's ever done that?
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like the movies that made us and they did the toys that made us.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, just something like that, but about video games.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_00: I would watch that.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um and you know, there's also there's a lot of stuff out there that uh I keep track of what I want to make a doc or just ideas for documentaries.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_00: That's how all this stuff comes about.
• 21:02
  SPEAKER_00: And there's so many of them that like that you couldn't make a full documentary about.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_00: There's a lot of ideas, it's like you just you you'd be stretching it too thin, but you could make an episode about it, you know.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_00: So it kind of it kind of was everything I wanted.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: I it'd be passionate, it'd be fun more than anything.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: And then also the stories that maybe couldn't uh last for 70, 90 minutes, but a 45-minute episode will be perfectly fine and really fun, no filler, you know, all killer, no filler.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And so um the other thing was that I really I I made my first two documentaries uh just totally punk rock, raised the money however I could and just made them and then sold them at the end, which I I luckily I did.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 21:47
  SPEAKER_00: Like everybody that invested in me, I was able to give them their money back plus more.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_00: So um, you know, it's good.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_00: You know, a lot of times you you don't make your money back or you just kind of break even, but it's just really risky, you know.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: To spend like a year or two of your life going all working on this thing, borrowing money from people, and then hoping at the end, hope you sell it.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_00: And the documentary industry has changed a lot because there's so many of these big budget, polished ones that are made by Netflix.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, the indie documentaries kind of get pushed out a little bit more and more and more.
• 22:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um and so, you know, I I had a great time making those, but I was I was really scared to do one like that again.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been kind of trying to make a documentary uh with like with a company, you know, like sell an idea to Netflix and make that.
• 22:39
  SPEAKER_00: Pitch stuff to people.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: And kind of what I found is it's like everybody wants murder.
• 22:45
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, uh for the longest time I I was a fan of true crime stuff, and to an extent I still am, but I think at some point it can be a little exploitive, you know.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, you hear about that Dahmer movie they made where um what's his name?
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_00: Evan Peters did a great job.
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_00: That guy's a fantastic actor.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_00: But then you read that like a lot of the murder victims in that were like, please don't make this.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like you're not even telling the story accurately.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_00: Our son was murdered, and you're kind of making it look like it was his fault.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: Please don't make this movie.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_00: And Netflix is just like, who cares?
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: We're making it, and then they make it, you know, and then you look at a lot of these documentaries, and a lot of the family is like, please don't do this.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we don't want everyone hearing these sordid details about how our daughter was brutally assaulted and all the stuff that happened to her.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want that out there, you know, for people and and people are just like, don't care, we're doing it, F off, you know.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: And like, you know, and again, to an extent, I think that true crime can, you know, there's good sides to it because I think it can like give justice to victims.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's a lot of stuff where um cases have gone cold, and then true crime documentaries re-ignite that, you know, and you see you see that happen, you know, documentaries help solve stuff, and I think that's really cool, or just raising awareness for certain things that happen, or just kind of teaching us, you know, hey, this can happen.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe you don't know that there's people out there like this, and you need to.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: All that is to say is um I I just didn't want to do something about murder, and that's literally what everybody wants.
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: I would pitch an idea and they would go, okay, so who dies in this?
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:16
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_00: You know, and there was some stuff that I'd bring because I knew, you know, they want drama and all that.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: I'd bring stuff with like crime and heists and stuff like that that's kind of fun.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like that documentary uh Pez Outlaw.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if you've seen that, but I think that's hilarious.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's all that's awesome.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: And there's another one um about uh art thieves that's really good.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: And there's another one, Pepsi Wears My Jet.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's not really crime, but it's kind of a lawsuit and stuff.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think that stuff's fun, opposed to, you know, hearing about some little girl who was cut up and fed to dogs.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I just don't agreed.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: I I I dude, I couldn't agree with you more.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: It was funny.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: You struck a chord with me because when my wife was like knee deep into that Dahmer series, like I had a little bit of a moral dilemma with it myself.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: And I thought about it and I'm like, man, I don't know.
• 25:09
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if this should be made for the sake of entertainment, because realistically, kind of the the things that you're creating, like are to give a little bit of enjoyment to people.
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_01: And again, and like there's there's a difference between horror and true horror and crime for the sake of entertainment and true crime, and and like you said, being you know, very exploitive, you know, you know, with what you're making.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: So like to hear that you're kind of going out on these this niche and and tapping into people's nostalgia and people's love for retro video games is fantastic.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thanks.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and that was the thing, you know.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_00: I I wanted to do something where, you know, because we're we have a Kickstarter going, um, and it's going really well.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you know, obviously you do need some money to do it.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you can work for free, but you know, you've got all the legal stuff, all the traveling, all of that stuff that you have to pay for.
• 26:08
  SPEAKER_00: And especially when you're trying to do a series, you know, I was like, I really want to do a series, I think that would be really awesome to do.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh yeah, it was just I wanted to do something that I uh that I would have fun with, but also that there would be a community, somebody that wants it.
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_00: A lot of times I struggle with that because there's stuff that I think would be cool, but people are like, dude, that's you, man.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's you and your weird thing.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: But, you know, I think that uh these stories, they are kind of niche, but I think there's a lot of people that are into that niche.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that retro gaming is a niche, but there's a lot of people that are passionate about it.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I think that people would support this and want it.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_00: So um, that was kind of how we settled on doing it that way, you know, because there's other video game documentaries out there, and there's a really great one on Netflix called High Score, and it kind of just walks you through the history of it.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: But there's never been one where it's like each episode is about a different game.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_00: You know, this episode is just about Tomb Raider, this episode is just about Dragon's Lair, this episode is just about Mist.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And so um I just thought that'd be really cool.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_00: And then I thought about it and I was like, what if Phil Moore was kind of like the host of it?
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't that be cool?
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, I feel like that would give people something more.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_00: Because, you know, that's the thing, you there's so many YouTubers out there that do a great job of making their own kind of mini documentaries.
• 27:29
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, well, what am what am I gonna do that's different than that?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: And one, it's like, well, I want to interview the people that actually, I'm not, it's not just me telling the story.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_00: We're actually gonna hear the people, Phil says this in our Kickstarter campaign, the people that put their blood, sweat, and tears into it.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: That's what makes it a little different.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_00: But then I was also, you know, who wouldn't want to see a project of with Philmore on TV talking about retro games again?
• 27:52
  SPEAKER_00: I know there's a whole bunch of people that would want that.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_00: I would want that.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_00: And even just from our crowdfund, you can see he's a natural on camera.
• 27:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I just thought that could be a little bonus thing for the fans as well.
• 28:02
  SPEAKER_00: And he's really passionate about it.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: And so that's kind of how it came about.
• 28:06
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, let's do something that's kind of like movies that made us, but about video games.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we're kind of saying a cross between movies that made us and 30 for 30.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um and uh and then with Phil Moore.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Wouldn't that be awesome?
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 28:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I I just thought a lot of people would be into that, and I thought that I would be really into that.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_00: So um I contacted him, and I kind of had even said in my head, I was like, if he doesn't want to do it, I'm not gonna do it.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna think of something else because I really want to partner with him.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_00: And when he said, I sent him an email and I said, kind of what I'm saying now.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: I want to do this thing where we focus on a different, you know, a different game every episode.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I said, you know, like we could do Tomb Raider, we could do Baldur's Gate, Wolfenstein, Star Fox.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: And his his reply was just, you had me at Star Fox.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I at that point I knew I was like, okay, yeah, this is the right guy.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: This is the guy.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: Amazing.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is there a specific game that you're looking forward to doing in particular, like your favorite game?
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_01: I mean Dragon's Lair.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: I was a I like Dragon's Lair.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like old school Atari Dragon's Lair?
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, like the old Atari game or uh arcade game, you know, that um with Don Bluth.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I love it because I mean, it's I think a lot of people are nostalgic for it.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, one, it's Don Bluth, you know what I mean?
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_00: Like, besides video games, I mean, that's Land Before Time, American Tale.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's the dude that almost brought down Disney, you know.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um and um it's a polarizing game, and I think that's pretty cool because for those that don't know, I mean, the graphics look like a Don Bluth movie.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, it's animated by Don Blut.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: So this is the you know, early 80s where you know, you've got Pac-Man and Cinepede and Zaxon and Asteroids, things like that.
• 29:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then you see this other game that's like, whoa, it's like better than graphics today.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, whoa, I want to play that, I want to play that.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_00: And then when you play it, it's not actually really a video game, it's more of a like a choose your own adventure, you know, it's it ran off of a laser disc, which that's another thing.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've always thought it'd be cool to do a documentary about laserdisc, but there's I don't know if there's enough.
• 30:09
  SPEAKER_00: So there's so many aspects to it.
• 30:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, there's Don Bluff, Laserdisc, it's an 80s arcade.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then also I think the fact that it is universally loved, but there's also a lot of people that are like, screw that game, man.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like I waited forever to play that game, and when I finally got there, you're not even really controlling Dirk.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's just like a you push left here and you push right.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's just a you know, you're just pushing buttons to go to the next chapter.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know.
• 30:36
  SPEAKER_00: That's one of my favorites.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited for Tomb Raider too, though, because I think there's a lot of people.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's a really cool game.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's one of those things that was a zeitgeist, you know, like Laura Croft was like the Mario for that era, you know, like for that era of gaming, not even just like PlayStation or whatever, just in general, she became something like Sonic, you know, something bigger than just the game.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, because there was there was kind of a duality when the original Tomb Raider came out with both being on the first PlayStation format and the first PC format because it was a lot of people, it was their entry level into PC gaming as well.
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's oh man, that's that's fantastic.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_01: That's really exciting.
• 31:19
  SPEAKER_01: So have you reached out to anybody else to participate in the series yet?
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Or can you say, or are you at liberty to say as of yet?
• 31:27
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, we have.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we reached out to um, I actually um met some really great guys that were kind of working on a Dragon's Lair uh documentary.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: And so uh they have all the connections with Don Bluth and all of that already.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I told him about it, I was like, hey, I'm doing this thing.
• 31:47
  SPEAKER_00: You want to kind of merge our projects into one, and the Dragon's Lair can be your episode, you know?
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they were all about it.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, so we have that one uh for sure.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_00: And then the thing that's funny, you know, I live in um I live in Houston, Texas, but I go to Dallas, Texas a lot.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um and Phil was actually working in Dallas for a while on a job.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: He's a producer, he produces shows, so he'll go live in a different city for a couple of months.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_00: And so um, we met there and we recorded our Kickstarter at the National Video Game Museum.
• 32:18
  SPEAKER_00: And if anybody gets a chance to go there, it's amazing.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_00: I was telling Phil about it because he, you know, he's not from Dallas and he wasn't really going outside seeing, he was working.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Oh, I'm gonna record a video at National Video Game Museum.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_00: You're you're gonna love it.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Oh, yeah, cool.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: I was explaining it to him.
• 32:30
  SPEAKER_00: He's like, Oh yeah, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_00: But then when he got there, he was like, Oh, oh my God, it really is.
• 32:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's amazing.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: That's fantastic.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_00: But um, I was really surprised as I looked into Dallas, like how much of the stories we want to tell was in Dallas.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, the the id guys were Dallas, you know, which that's huge as far as 3D first-person shooter, but then also uh Duke Newcomb 3D.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um a lot of those guys uh were out of there too.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: So and they were they kind of all knew each other and they were kind of like friendly rivalry.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_00: So that there was this whole scene because uh Texas instruments, you know, that everyone had like a TI calculator when you're a kid, was based out of Dallas in the uh, you know, I think 60s and 70s, and I think even into the 80s.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: So you had all these tech guys that were there, and they had all these sons and daughters that were teenagers, you know, because so many of us didn't have computers back then.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, to have a computer in the 80s, you know, not everybody had one, and to be like a whiz at it and to be able to do stuff was super rare.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why all those people that were like 19 years old were making these games, they were the children of Texas instrument people.
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_00: So they had those computers there at their house and they learned how to be good at them.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_00: So there, because of that, there was this whole scene in the um, you know, early 90s, late 80s, early 90s of uh of computer software in uh I think they called it like the Silicon Prairie, right?
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, north, north Texas.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_00: So um I'm excited to to talk to those guys.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: I've reached out to them and we're kind of talking with them.
• 34:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and I I hope everything works out because um, you know, we want to do Wolfenstein 3D.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_00: I think that would be really amazing.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then Duke Nukem 3D is another one that we really would love to do as well.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and they're all based out of there.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_01: So, what are some of the other ideas that you have kicked around for future documentaries once you uh cross this benchmark?
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Have you have you started thinking that far ahead, or are you really just centralizing your focus on this right now?
• 34:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I I always try to think of um a couple of like I I just have a Google Doc where I'll be walking around and go, oh, and I'll just write it in there.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I kind of have to do that where I just keep a uh a Google Doc where I just have like hundred ideas, you know, and then I'll I'll go through and cull them.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, this one's stupid, this one's stupid.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: What were you thinking?
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: What were you thinking?
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'll do some research, and some of them I'm like, oh, this would be a cool idea, but there's not enough for a story, so I'll kind of cross those off the list.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_00: So there's a bunch of stuff that I like to do.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: I'd love to do another um another music documentary.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_00: I had a great time with that, just because I kind of get to um put you know two of my passions together.
• 35:17
  SPEAKER_00: I'm passionate about music, I'm passionate about film, and um I'm in talks with the band right now because it I was kind of spoiled though.
• 35:26
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, Guar is that what do I do from here?
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: Because it's it's I mean, they make movies, they got nominated for uh for uh an Oscar, you know, for uh um for one of their movies, you know, for the soundtrack for one of their movies.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they make movies, they they were technically like a trauma-style movie and a punk rock band that came together.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, there's just all this crazy stuff that's happened with them.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm like, everything else is gonna be boring to just tell, oh, here's these four or five musicians that got together, they did some drugs, some guys got kicked out, right?
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Had a falling out, they made it, then they changed their sound a little bit, and you know.
• 36:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but uh there's another one, there's one in mind that feels like a natural successor to Guar that I think would be really fun to work on.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: And they're uh an older CBGB era band uh with a female singer.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, very similar to Guar.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I'm talking with them right now, but nothing's been confirmed.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: But that one would be my if that one happens, I will be beyond thrilled because that would be like my dream to get to do uh after that.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: I do have a couple that we are pitching to kind of like I was saying before, where like you have an idea and you pitch it places.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and luckily I was fortunate enough to find people that aren't just wanting death.
• 36:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we're kind of working on that.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I have a really cool like one that's about like a baseball card heist that we're pitching around.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that one would be really fun.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: And it's funny, it goes back to what you were saying.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the pandemic collecting everything, retro video games, also baseball cards and stuff like that.
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I got back into vinyl during the pandemic.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, so yeah, yeah.
• 37:18
  SPEAKER_01: You're sitting at home, what do you do?
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: Right, exactly.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_01: Well, a lot of us started a podcast now.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_01: See, there's another documentary situation, the podcast boom of the pandemic.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_01: You know, being a guy that's doing it, and I know you know, you and I have talked offline about uh editing podcasts and working on all that stuff.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: I tell you, that was a market that got really saturated really fast, and now you're kind of starting to see podcasters call themselves out and the the everything's plateauing, and only only the strongest survive.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 37:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's I think that's funny that you said I think it's a lot like documentary filmmaking.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_00: You see so many of these Kickstarters that get funded and then the film never comes out, never comes out because it's easy to come up with an idea and you can shoot a really cool video for it, but then I think people get deep into it.
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_00: And making a documentary is really, really, really hard, especially you know, to make a good one that actually has a story.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: The amount of editing, if you don't edit yourself, if you're not a good editor, I mean, you're you're gonna have all this footage and it's just so, so much work.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I think you saw that.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of these people, like and even after Orange Years, I was getting approached by all these people.
• 38:39
  SPEAKER_00: I've got an idea, I've got an idea, and it was just like, well, I mean, everyone can come up with an idea.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: Just think of something from the 80s.
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_00: Alf, let's do an ALF document or TGIF, let's do a TGI, you know?
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: But it's like that those would be cool, but it's just a lot of work, you know.
• 38:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I think people would come up with a cool idea, crowdfund it, and then it makes it harder for us now.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: I think because a lot of people are scared because they're like, well, I donated to this other film and it never came out.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_00: So that was well, that's one thing that I hope helps ours.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I have two movies that did come out.
• 39:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not going to do that.
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'm not going to just take people's money and then never never make anything with it.
• 39:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_01: And one thing that you are doing from checking out all your posts and checking out the posts from the Game Changers Facebook page is you're giving people a piece of the show as well.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's one thing that gets lost in a lot of Kickstarter campaigns.
• 39:33
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I had somebody tell me a long, long time ago that if you want people to invest in you, you have to invest in them first.
• 39:42
  SPEAKER_01: But you're giving people a return on that investment.
• 39:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I know one of the perks was like a producer credit or something along the lines.
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_01: Am I not mistaken on that?
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_01: So no, that's exactly it.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I mean, I I I think if my listeners, viewers, anybody watching this, you know I'm gonna share the hell out of Scott's um uh Kickstarter campaign as soon as this episode drops.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh go check it out.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh make your donation.
• 40:12
  SPEAKER_01: Know that this is going towards a fantastic piece of programming, fantastic piece of art.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_01: And just like Scott just said, you know, the proof is in the pudding.
• 40:23
  SPEAKER_01: The orange year was great.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_01: This is Guar was great.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_01: This is going to be great.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, thanks a lot.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate that.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: I I appreciate that a lot.
• 40:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, I I'd love for people to check it out because yeah, it's it's I I want this to be good for them, you know.
• 40:40
  SPEAKER_00: I I I want to give people the show that they want, you know, that they're that will really make them go, oh, this was cool, this was worth my time, this was worth my energy.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and it's called Game Changers.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_00: We're on all Facebook, Instagram.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: If you just do Game Changer series, um Twitter, and we also our Kickstarter, if you just go, if you Google Game Changers Kickstarter, it'll be there.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, we do have we have a lot of like small perks, you know, and any any bit helps.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we have a couple, one where you can be an associate producer.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we are gonna do a uh a screening of this.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna screen the first three episodes because I think you know making people watch the whole first season in a in a um in a yeah, in a in a theater might be tough, but we're gonna screen the first three.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, you you're if you're an executive producer or an associate, you get to come to that and kind of hang out with Phil and stuff beforehand.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_00: And we're gonna also do a live stream of it just for certain backers, um, where you get to be on that so you watch it with all of us, and we'll do a QA afterward.
• 41:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yeah, that was it.
• 41:44
  SPEAKER_00: And that was one thing, Taylor, you were, you know, director of uh Pick It Up and The Last Blockbuster.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that was one thing he told me is yeah, you know, you gotta you gotta get people involved, make them feel like they're part of it.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh yeah, that's one of those things like, yeah, of course.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: I guess it maybe I would have been afraid, like I would have thought I was asking too much from people, but it's like, no, they want to.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like we're about to drop another one where um you can be an executive producer, but you also get to pick what episode we do.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_00: Because the way we have it right now is um the first season's gonna be six episodes.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but we list a bunch of games that we want to do.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_00: Six of them will for sure be on six of those will be on the first um season.
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, or if not, it'll be with a game that's very similar to that.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_00: But we're those are all the games that we're going to do.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we just kind of wanted to let people know that.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_00: And if you if you donate anybody, even if you donate$10, you get to vote for a game, and whichever game gets the most votes, we will definitely do that game on the first season.
• 42:46
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, wow.
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_00: But we're gonna do an executive producer one.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: We're only gonna do, we're only gonna have two of these where you can be an executive producer, um, and you don't just get to vote, you get to say a game.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: So you can be like, boom, I'm donating to this new executive producer, um, and I want you to do Tomb Raider, and we'll have to do it.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: And by have to, it's not gonna be a chore because we will love to do it.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, it's another one.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's kind of like uh we're gonna call it like executive producer plus, where it's uh it's a new a new one, um, a new um perk that we're gonna drop.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_01: Nice.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: So after you know, beyond documentary filmmaking, have you thought about making any dramatic or feature films, horror movies?
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_01: Because you mentioned you were a fan of horror beyond any of this.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I would really love to.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: I would really love to do that.
• 43:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I have a passion for just all film in general.
• 43:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I love documentaries, but I also love, you know, narrative films too.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's I don't I don't really consider myself a documentary filmmaker.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_00: It was kind of like that was the easiest thing for me to kind of get into.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I did it, but I've always wanted to.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: You know, make a make a narrative film.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so I've I've partnered up with um uh a guy named Casey Pinkston.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: He has a really good film on Hulu called um Red Dog.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's really great.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um and we found out we went to the same high school and then just both ended up making films.
• 44:18
  SPEAKER_00: And so he and I are are writing right now, and you know, we're trying to be clever about it.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_00: Like, okay, how do you write something that you can make yourself?
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, it's like why so many horror films are so successful.
• 44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Get a cabin in the woods, get some people.
• 44:33
  SPEAKER_00: You don't need to have a star, boom, and you can have a successful movie.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so we're trying to do that.
• 44:38
  SPEAKER_00: You know, what we we kind of have this script where we're we're kind of thinking, how can we be creative and do like one location, minimal cast?
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really as a kid, I was a really big fan of Joe Dante, uh, you know, the Burbs.
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: I love the Burbs, you know, mixing comedy and horror.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_00: And so then um Edgar Wright uh is a is a is a is a big um I'm a big fan of him.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_00: I love uh Sean of the Dead, I love uh World's End.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: I love that mixing comedy and horror.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what we're gonna try to do is kind of mix comedy and horror and hopefully um hopefully get that made pretty soon.
• 45:15
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see.
• 45:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's awesome.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: So as we kind of talked about before we started recording, you know, um music tends to be this backbone that kind of feeds the body of other creative endeavors.
• 45:29
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, you can see behind me, you can see the clash, you can see the misfits, but you also see Michael Myers, Roy Kent, Randy Macho, Man Savage, and Dave Chappelle, you know, so it's like, you know, comic books, pro wrestling, you know, Nickelodeon, you know, it's just all music impacts us in so many different ways.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: In what ways has music influenced your level of creativity and where you're at in life, aside from just the War movie?
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think so much, so much.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um, one, in terms of, you know, like you kind of asked before, like, what do I like to do?
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that I like to find a punk rock element to everything.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's gotta have that.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_00: And and not literally, you know, not literally, you know, Mohawks and Chains and stuff like that, but like the Nickelodeon one that we did, you know, what really made me want to do it was it's a story of this teacher.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, Nickelodeon was floundering.
• 46:29
  SPEAKER_00: It was not anything, it was like a wannabe PBS that nobody cared about.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_00: And this, it was a teacher, you know, and this is the very early 80s when women were were, I mean, the idea of a woman running a network was, you know, bonkers.
• 46:42
  SPEAKER_00: And and also she had a background in teaching, you know, and she kind of came in and was like, fuck you guys, I know what's up, I know what's gonna happen.
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_00: And everyone's like, and you know, she had this team, and everyone was like, You guys are idiots, this is never gonna work.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_00: And then look what happened, you know, like I just love that.
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, I love that so much, you know.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_00: And then you look at like the first, you know, there's so many cool um cartoons these days, you know, Rick and Morty and um, I mean, Adventure Time, all sorts of like creator run Bob's burgers, like cool cartoons, and that really started with Nickelodeon.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know, cartoons in the 80s were mainly just I mean, the idea of cartoons for adults was not a thing, really.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then um the cartoons for kids were just commercials for toys, you know.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I that's not really necessarily a bad thing.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like I loved Transformers, I loved He-Man, I loved Ninja Trails when I was a kid.
• 47:33
  SPEAKER_00: There was a lot of people that did breathe art into them, but that was the main, it had to be attached to a franchise already out there, right?
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, Doug, Rugrats, and Ren and Stimpy, those were the first three that they did, and they're still huge, still huge to this very day.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, Rugrats was about babies, and they were all weird looking, you know, they were not cute.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_00: Ren and Stimpy.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, we know that one was very weird.
• 47:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I just love the fact that it was kind of a, I was like, I felt like I got my head around it when that happened.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_00: I was like, oh, this is a punk rock story.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, yeah.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then the same with Guar, too.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: Like, when you start thinking about them as this metal band with all these props and stuff, and some people accuse them of just being, oh, you're just a band with a gimmick, and then being like, oh, these guys are the most, even though they're sound, it was punk rock.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's still what is punk rock?
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: Who the uh who knows this day and age, but um, you know, a lot of people would consider them more of a metal band, even though they're just guar.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: They do everything.
• 48:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but they're the punkest band out there because they do all that shit themselves.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_00: DIY.
• 48:38
  SPEAKER_00: They're doing DIY, but it's not just making shirts and playing shows and booking your own tours and stuff like that.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_00: They're doing all that, also making huge monster costumes, and they create them, they put on that show.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's no big company behind them.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: There's no company that makes that.
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_00: They do all of that stuff themselves, and they found a way to lug it from city to city and set that up every single night.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_00: And those guys tour like constantly.
• 49:07
  SPEAKER_00: So, anyway, that was just what kind of that's my I guess it helps me from an artistic standpoint.
• 49:15
  SPEAKER_00: I look for the punk rock element in everything.
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_00: But then, I mean, more importantly, I think is the work ethic of it.
• 49:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I did I played in bands when I was young, and you know, we would we had a Ford F-150.
• 49:29
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't even have a van, we had a Ford F-150 that we had a camper on it, and we busted out one of the windows and put a window-mounted AC unit through the window of a truck, right?
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: And then had a generator on the back, and we would ride in the back of a truck.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_00: So two guys got to ride in the actual truck, and then the rest of us would ride in the back of this truck with an AC unit through Texas, through the desert on your way to California.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we would stay wherever we could.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes we stayed in the truck.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_00: You know, we at the show, we'd be like, can it can we stay at any of y'all's houses?
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: And we'd find somewhere to do it.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: And um after the show, we'd be like slinging our merch.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: Like I remember we'd brought all this food with us so we wouldn't have to buy food, like peanut butter and stuff like that.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: And we'd be like, if you buy a shirt, you also get this thing of peanut butter.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: Anybody, anybody, anybody, you know, just anything we could do to make make it happen.
• 50:21
  SPEAKER_00: There, nothing is given to you.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think there I would see a lot of bands that, especially because it was around that time when punk rock was getting on MTV and stuff, and I'd see these bands where I would have some elements of your heroes are not good.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I'd see these punk bands.
• 50:36
  SPEAKER_00: I remember we played with one and like people were jumping on stage to stage dive, and they're like, What is this?
• 50:43
  SPEAKER_00: If somebody gets on stage again, we're gonna stop playing.
• 50:46
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, what the hell are you talking about, man?
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you're a punk band.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember when they got there, you know, and they come in with their spikes and stuff, and and they're like, Where are our loaders?
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: Where are our loaders?
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_00: And that became our joke from then on out when we get to a guest show, we'd be like, loaders, loaders.
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_00: They wouldn't, they wouldn't move their own equipment.
• 51:07
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, whatever, you know.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: So to have that mindset of like nothing is given to you.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_00: If you want it, you have to you have to make it happen.
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to do it.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, sometimes it's not fair.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like there were times where I mean, all the bitchwork stuff for these movies, I do it.
• 51:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm never like, this shouldn't fall upon me.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I'm going, I'm I'm on my way to an interview and I'm also trying to go to the Chinese food place to get some food because we have to feed these people, you know, and it's like, you know, if if you think you're above that stuff, good luck, you know, good luck.
• 51:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and so that, you know, that's why I've been able to be successful.
• 51:47
  SPEAKER_00: I think is because I can make these movies when people hear how cheap I'm making them.
• 51:50
  SPEAKER_00: And Taylor does this too, which is funny because Taylor also came from that background, you know.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um, when you have that that mindset of um, I'm just gonna do it, you know, and and and it's um you can make it for way cheaper than everybody else does.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you know, most people would go, well, it's gonna be at least a million or half a million dollars.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: Well, or I'm not gonna be able to do it.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: And you're like, I can do it for a fraction of that.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think you hit the nail on the head by talking about the the punk rock mantra, because you know, if you you take the style of music out of it, you can still be punk if you're sticking your thumb into conventional wisdom and what people expect and just their structure.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_01: If you can be a disruptor and disrupt somebody's structure and still find a way to accomplish your end goal, there's nothing more punk rock than that.
• 52:41
  SPEAKER_01: And if you've been a musician, you know that work ethic, you know what it takes to be successful, because it's one of the hardest businesses to be successful in consistently because everybody's kind of looking for their next big thing, or you know, one day you're relevant, the next day you're not.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: But I can see how that's applicable to all avenues of life for sure, especially in the creative world.
• 53:09
  SPEAKER_00: It totally is.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it it it you know, not just about the work, like I'm really lucky to do what to get to have done what I've done.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_00: And it taught me that love.
• 53:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like I can just remember I was like 20 years old, you know, and I'm we're driving across the country, you know.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm this dude, I grew up in Texas, you know, and not even in like a hit part of Texas.
• 53:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm I'm in this truck and I'm watching, you know, America go past me, you know, through the, you know, on your way from uh I-10, you know, from Texas over to California, and there's just just there's just desert everywhere.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm looking out there, and like we stopped the car, the truck that we were in, and um we just got out because there was, I mean, you could see the Milky Way, you know, you could see it.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: And um I'm like, dude, I am 20 years old, I've never gone anywhere, and I'm here with like my two best friends, yep.
• 54:04
  SPEAKER_00: Getting to go everywhere I've ever wanted to go.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: You know, LA, San Francisco, Oregon, I mean New York, everywhere.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_00: I'm getting to go everywhere I ever wanted to go for free.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't make any money, but our trip was paid for, you know.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_00: We we made sure we made enough money that we never went in the into the uh into the red.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if it cost us this much to get from this city to this city, we knew that's how much we had to make there.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and I I just felt so lucky and it gave me a love for that.
• 54:30
  SPEAKER_00: Like, and that's so like we had said before, getting to we meet Weird Al and go to all these cool places is the payment.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_00: It it made me fall in love with that.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: And um it's just such a fun thing to do.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, and yeah, and I I still I have fun doing that.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_00: I've met the coolest people by doing that, you know.
• 54:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like, can I crash at anybody's house?
• 54:52
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I I throughout the Nickelodeon movie, I was constantly doing that, and I'd I'd stay with somebody, you know, and then um make friends with them, and now they're friends, you know.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_00: I made friends with a guy and he got me into the Magic Castle, which have have you ever heard of that before?
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: The Magic Castle in Los Angeles?
• 55:09
  SPEAKER_00: No, so it's so cool.
• 55:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's like an old, like over a hundred-year-old building in Los Angeles, like an old mansion, and um, it's where the like magician's guild has their home, like the actual legit magician's guild.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, cool, and it's all weird in there and stuff.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and you can't get in unless you're invited by a magician.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, that's so cool.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_00: No matter what, like you have to be invited, and there's like a dress code to get in there too.
• 55:39
  SPEAKER_00: And um, yeah, I was hanging out with this guy Bill.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: I met him through working with the Orangers.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_00: He was a producer on it, and then he became a producer on This Is Guar, and we're still working on stuff together.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: But um, and he was like, Oh, I could get you in there if you want.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, What?
• 55:55
  SPEAKER_00: And he's like, Yeah, I know like a bunch of magicians, I'll get you in.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: So he called up one of his magician buddies, and I got in, and it's the craziest place ever.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_00: It's like all these like winding um hallways and stuff, and then you'll walk into a room and there'll be a magician show going on there, and some are just doing it at the bar, some are like in a big room, some are they have a really large room in there.
• 56:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's just it was so cool, you know.
• 56:18
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and to get to do that, I mean, that's crazy.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: When I say that to a lot of people, and they're like, Oh, that's so cool.
• 56:24
  SPEAKER_00: I'm like, I've been there, and they're like, What?
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, that's crazy.
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but yeah, the Magic Castle, if you can ever get in there, it's it's really cool.
• 56:33
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's awesome.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of what you know we've been talking about is that life experience that these endeavors give you.
• 56:45
  SPEAKER_01: I have had to explain it more than my fair handful of times to people that have taken more of a conventional life path that I pretty much said exactly what you just said in summation was you know what, maybe I didn't take the conventional path in life, but I have probably a million more stories than that guy over there.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 57:10
  SPEAKER_01: And I can pass those stories on to my kids, and my kids can pass those stories on to their kids.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_01: And if my kids want to pursue something creatively, I can also steer them in the right direction.
• 57:21
  SPEAKER_01: I can be the cautionary tale so they do things right uh based off the things I did wrong.
• 57:28
  SPEAKER_01: My dad was a uh musician and he was quite an accomplished one.
• 57:32
  SPEAKER_01: I don't need to be Johnny Name Dropper, but he played with a lot of uh well-known people.
• 57:38
  SPEAKER_01: And now my daughter's kind of starting to dabble into getting into bands and all that stuff.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_01: But I say all of that to say that you can't discount the education you get from life experience.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_01: And sometimes those life experiences come from the most unexpected places.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_00: They really do, you know, and like you're saying, you know, uh it's that balance.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think when I first became a father, it was like this was the right decision, it was just like that was that's it, that's it, that's it, that's it.
• 58:08
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, I think that being a good father is showing your kids like you know that you can follow your dreams and um and and giving them somebody to like you know, yeah, I put food on the table, you know, yeah, I take care of them, I do all this stuff, but also like you said, stories.
• 58:29
  SPEAKER_00: Like they could be like, that's really cool that you did that, dad.
• 58:31
  SPEAKER_00: Like that inspires me to do stuff.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: And um, you know, uh while making the orange years, uh my dad died during that time, and um, it was so heartbreaking.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was awful.
• 58:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I remember the thing that got us through it was me and my brother, and then my dad's brothers and all of his friends were sitting there telling the crazy stories about him.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, you know, your dad did this one time, one guy told a story about how he got a hook stuck in his mouth, he had something to do.
• 58:59
  SPEAKER_00: It was just all these crazy stories, and we're all telling them because my dad was a practical joker, you know, he's a goofy guy, and it was like that stuff got it thinking of him as a human, not just as a dad.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_00: Like, yes, it's awesome that he did all the dad things for me, but like thinking of him as a man, you know, not a dad is like really awesome, really, really great, and I'm grateful that I get to do that.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: So that kind of taught me something a little bit, I guess.
• 59:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, yes, fantastic, man.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: I I've really enjoyed this conversation, so I'm gonna throw my wrap-up question to you.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_01: And this is kind of an off-the-wall one.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_01: I ask it to everybody that does my show, uh, everybody from MMA fighters to musicians and beyond.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's more important that I ask this right now because we've had a tumultuous three weeks in our world.
• 59:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, what's your advice for making the world a better place tomorrow than what it is today?
• 59:58
  SPEAKER_00: I I think that there's this advice when people say it.
• 1:00:03
  SPEAKER_00: People say this and it always they think it applies to everyone else.
• 1:00:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like things like people really need to when there's an important topic, do your research on it.
• 1:00:12
  SPEAKER_00: And people like, uh-huh.
• 1:00:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, they do.
• 1:00:14
  SPEAKER_00: Those people over there do need to do that.
• 1:00:17
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like maybe some of the I would say maybe some of the advice you would give other people take an honest look at yourself, you know, and and like these people really need to get educated over here.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: Instead of doing that, go, am I one of those people?
• 1:00:32
  SPEAKER_00: Am I one of those people that needs to be educated?
• 1:00:35
  SPEAKER_00: Because it I think that this the the social media and stuff like that, um, you know, there's a lot of good stuff to it, but I think it's made us all think that we're smarter than we are.
• 1:00:45
  SPEAKER_00: I think instead of the instead of using the internet to become smart, which we could do, we have everything at our at our uh at our fingertips.
• 1:00:53
  SPEAKER_00: Anything you could want to learn to do, you can, but instead of we instead of using it to become smart, we show the internet how we use the internet to show other people how smart we already think we are.
• 1:01:02
  SPEAKER_00: Use the internet to become as smart as you try to pretend like you are online.
• 1:01:06
  SPEAKER_00: You know, like I say, when you point the finger at somebody, you got the other ones pointed right back at you, is just you know, instead of criticizing other people, maybe take some honest reflection at yourself and think is maybe some of the advice you're giving to other people.
• 1:01:23
  SPEAKER_00: Do I need that advice too?
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's that's that's a great piece of advice.
• 1:01:29
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's funny you say that because I just I think I posted something on Threads the other day about how I missed the era of flip phones when people had to go to a computer to get on uh the internet because people weren't so reactive, you know?
• 1:01:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like people right now have the opportunity to react to everything that's presented to them, so it's emboldened them and it's putting them on soapboxes.
• 1:01:53
  SPEAKER_01: So I wholeheartedly agree with your takeaways there, Scott.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_01: Man, I am so glad we're connected.
• 1:02:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, you know, just just so you know, uh, anybody that does my show, uh, I consider a friend for life.
• 1:02:09
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm glad we know each other now.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad to say we're friends.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh folks, if you have not checked out the Orange Years or This Is Guar, check them out as soon as humanly possible.
• 1:02:20
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you become a contributor to the Kickstarter campaign for game changers.
• 1:02:26
  SPEAKER_01: That is going to be a game changer of a document, documentary show.
• 1:02:32
  SPEAKER_01: Um, Scott, thanks for doing the show, man.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 1:02:36
  SPEAKER_01: Likewise, thank you.
• 1:02:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, the world's a much better place with you and it, my friend.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_01: Once again, I'd like to thank my new friend Scott Barber for doing the podcast today.
• 1:02:45
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you check out his documentaries, The Orange Ears.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_01: This is Guar, and give to his Kickstarter campaign for game changers.
• 1:02:57
  SPEAKER_01: It is going to be a series all about retro games.
• 1:03:01
  SPEAKER_01: It is going to be awesome.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: Give me a follow at Caught on the Mike on all social media platforms.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_01: I would appreciate a subscription to my YouTube channel.
• 1:03:14
  SPEAKER_01: As we are now in both audio and video format.
• 1:03:18
  SPEAKER_01: Visit me at www.cotonhe.com.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_01: You are the reason these exciting episodes are possible.
• 1:03:29
  SPEAKER_01: For more information, you can email me caughtonthemic at gmail.com.
• 1:03:35
  SPEAKER_01: This has been Caught on the Mike with Michael Clark.
• 1:03:38
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Michael Clark.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_01: Until next time.
• 1:03:41
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you.