Latest / The You Project / #2215 Can AI F*ck Up Our Brain? - Patrick Bonello

Transcript

#2215 Can AI F*ck Up Our Brain? - Patrick Bonello · The You Project

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: Oh, g'day everyone. It's Craig Harper. It's the You Project.
• 0:02
  Speaker 1: It's Patrick Bonello. It's Tiffany Ann Cook. We'll start with Tiff.
• 0:09
  Speaker 2: Hi, Tiff.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: Hi, Hans.
• 0:11
  Speaker 2: Good morning.
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: What a beautiful day. It's a beautiful day in Melb's.
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: It's just I'm going to go for a walk after this.
• 0:18
  Speaker 1: Got a few things to do. Do you do walk
• 0:22
  Speaker 1: and work or do you just do walk and walk?
• 0:26
  Speaker 3: I do walk and chat. I normally chat phone calls
• 0:29
  Speaker 3: when I'm walking and driving.
• 0:32
  Speaker 1: Well, goody gumdrops. What about, I can't imagine you walking
• 0:35
  Speaker 1: and talking, Patrick. You're like walk and dog.
• 0:41
  Speaker 2: No, I do a bit of walking and talking, but
• 0:44
  Speaker 2: not so much. I like to have a nice break
• 0:46
  Speaker 2: at lunchtime. I try to give myself at least half
• 0:48
  Speaker 2: an hour of total radio silence, so to speak. If
• 0:51
  Speaker 2: a call comes in, I just let it go to
• 0:53
  Speaker 2: message bank. Unless it's you.
• 0:56
  Speaker 1: Sorry, I was just going to say a friend of
• 0:59
  Speaker 1: the show, Dr. Ingrid, who's been on a bunch of
• 1:01
  Speaker 1: times and spoken to for a minute, but she's a psychiatrist,
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: high-level psychiatrist, super respected, blah, blah, blah. Most of her
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: patients she does not sit in an office with. Where
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: she works is right near a river. She takes her
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: patients for a walk, and they're all mobile sessions, and
• 1:20
  Speaker 1: she said the connection, the– the calmness or the absence
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: of anxiety and the outcomes are way better, way improved
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: than sitting in two chairs staring at each other.
• 1:36
  Speaker 2: I've done that before when I've had conversations with staff
• 1:38
  Speaker 2: where potentially the content might be something that's going to
• 1:42
  Speaker 2: be triggering or they might get upset and we say,
• 1:45
  Speaker 2: let's go for a walk. And, you know, particularly if
• 1:48
  Speaker 2: it's a nice day.
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: With that in mind, Tiff, you and I need to
• 1:52
  Speaker 1: go for a walk.
• 1:53
  Speaker 2: Stop it.
• 1:54
  Speaker 3: Stop it. I do love walking meetings, though. They're so good.
• 1:59
  Speaker 2: They're productive. They're actually really good. It's not to be
• 2:01
  Speaker 2: said for that. The only problem is carrying the frigging whiteboard.
• 2:04
  Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing. I have a mini one that
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: just folds out. It folds up to the size of
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: a playing card.
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: You could just use your or my head. There's so
• 2:17
  Speaker 2: much space.
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: There's a bit of territory. I could just paint my
• 2:22
  Speaker 1: forehead white in a gloss and just, I don't know
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: how I'd go writing backwards across my own. Well, that's ridiculous.
• 2:33
  Speaker 1: Any news, Patrick, before we jump into the show? We
• 2:36
  Speaker 1: know there was a bit of park canine violence. You
• 2:40
  Speaker 1: might want to tell the listeners that huge update from Belan.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: It was really distressing. Poor little Fritzie got attacked at
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: the park. Luckily, it wasn't severe. He had his little
• 2:49
  Speaker 2: jacket on and then a dog jumped on top of him,
• 2:52
  Speaker 2: pinned him to the ground and was growling and managed
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: to scratch his ear, but not too badly. But gosh,
• 2:59
  Speaker 2: I didn't realise how badly I'd be affected by it.
• 3:02
  Speaker 2: I was shaking and it was really upsetting. But he's good.
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: He's okay now. And we had our first little play
• 3:09
  Speaker 2: date with another couple of bigger dogs the other day
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: at the park, and he didn't seem too concerned. So, thankfully,
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: no long-term problems, just me.
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: It's like the problem with dogs quite often is the owner,
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: as you alluded to. So, lady at the park in
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: Belan with you, Adele, yes, we're talking about you. Get
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: your dog under control. And just calling the dog back
• 3:36
  Speaker 1: while it's attacking another dog, it's not fucking okay.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: It's not enough.
• 3:41
  Speaker 1: Go grab the dog, retrieve the dog, and also train
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: your dog. You're welcome. It's quite often a human person
• 3:52
  Speaker 1: or a human problem, not a dog problem.
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, it is a tough one. And at the
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: end of the day, they are animals that are prone
• 4:00
  Speaker 2: to be triggered by any number of different things. So
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: you've really got to be confident. And I guess the
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: thing that I was thinking about is what if there's
• 4:07
  Speaker 2: a kid walking a dog and they rush in to
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: rescue their little dog? And, you know, that's the thing
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: that I guess concerns me the most. I mean, I
• 4:15
  Speaker 2: was able to– I'm big, bad, knuggly enough to get
• 4:18
  Speaker 2: into the middle of that fight, grabbed little Fritzie and
• 4:22
  Speaker 2: got away. But, yeah, potentially if it was a child,
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: it could be devastating.
• 4:28
  Speaker 1: Tiffany, any dog drama on Planet U?
• 4:31
  Speaker 3: Yes, actually– Oh, God.
• 4:34
  Speaker 1: I was hoping you'd go, no, because this is the
• 4:37
  Speaker 1: worst intro ever, but okay. Well, Luna had to go
• 4:40
  Speaker 1: to the vet yesterday. No, it's not, mate. I'm kidding.
• 4:43
  Speaker 1: I'm kidding.
• 4:44
  Speaker 2: I love dogs.
• 4:44
  Speaker 1: Yes, let's hear it.
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: Luna had to go to the vet yesterday. She had
• 4:47
  Speaker 3: to have another paw. She had to go under again,
• 4:50
  Speaker 3: just sedation, not general anesthetic, and have a corn removed.
• 4:55
  Speaker 3: And when I brought her home, she would just stand
• 4:58
  Speaker 3: on the bed staring like a drunk person. And then
• 5:03
  Speaker 3: just every now and then wobble and almost collapse. It
• 5:06
  Speaker 3: was like three parts distressing, two parts hilarious.
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: So where was it? On a foot?
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 5:15
  Speaker 1: On a foot? Yeah. On a toe or on a foot?
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: On a toe, on a little toe paw pad, on
• 5:22
  Speaker 3: a toe beans.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, Patrick.
• 5:28
  Speaker 3: Patrick was just showing you his toe.
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Oh, I thought you were putting up. This is terrible
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: because it's an audio medium. All right, let's talk about
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: Dyna Robotics unveils Dyna 2. By the way, before we
• 5:44
  Speaker 1: do this, did either of you see on the news
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: those fucking running robots running 100 metres in quicker than
• 5:51
  Speaker 1: Usain Bolt? Did anyone, please someone talk.
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: I saw an article.
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: I'm sorry, but you sent it to me.
• 5:59
  Speaker 2: I didn't. You didn't send it to me, Tiff. What
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: are you telling me?
• 6:04
  Speaker 1: Did you not see it, Patrick?
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: No. No, I saw an article briefly about another Robot
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: Olympics or something, and I just thought, yeah, been there,
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: done that.
• 6:11
  Speaker 1: No, they, well, the iteration, the current iteration of robots
• 6:16
  Speaker 1: that can run is like 20 years ahead of last
• 6:20
  Speaker 1: year's version. So they can actually run, kind of, but
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: they do have some steering problems, don't they, Tiff? A
• 6:28
  Speaker 1: little bit. And then they don't really know how to decelerate,
• 6:33
  Speaker 1: so they hit this big foam pad at the end
• 6:37
  Speaker 1: or decelerate at the rate required to not blow themselves up.
• 6:41
  Speaker 1: But what I don't understand about humanoid robots for the
• 6:48
  Speaker 1: house is, There seems to me no advantage like having
• 6:54
  Speaker 1: something just for the sake of being shaped and formed
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: like a human, because there are so many, you know,
• 7:01
  Speaker 1: balance issues and there's so little like area actually meeting
• 7:07
  Speaker 1: the ground because instead of like a big tire, it's
• 7:10
  Speaker 1: like a foot, which is unstable. Why don't they just
• 7:13
  Speaker 1: have them all on tires or wheels like R2D2 or
• 7:17
  Speaker 1: something like that? We've gone the C3PO route. I think
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: the R2D2 route would have been much better.
• 7:24
  Speaker 2: I guess I've thought about this quite a few times
• 7:26
  Speaker 2: and it actually makes a lot of sense when you're
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: using that logic that it could be more stable, more secure,
• 7:33
  Speaker 2: less having to worry about balance. But our worlds are
• 7:37
  Speaker 2: made for human beings. Our homes are made for human beings.
• 7:42
  Speaker 2: So if you think about it, if you want a
• 7:44
  Speaker 2: robot to emulate all the things that you do, then
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: the human shape makes more sense. Going upstairs, turning corners,
• 7:51
  Speaker 2: folding laundry, whatever it happens to be, you could potentially
• 7:55
  Speaker 2: have multiple purpose-built robots to do your washing or to
• 7:58
  Speaker 2: do your folding. But I guess our spaces, if you
• 8:03
  Speaker 2: put a robot in a car and got it to drive,
• 8:06
  Speaker 2: it would need to have four limbs. You'd need to
• 8:08
  Speaker 2: have hands on the steering wheel and feet on the pedal.
• 8:11
  Speaker 2: So I guess that's where I'm coming from in terms
• 8:13
  Speaker 2: of why it needs to be like a human, because
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: it's inhabiting a human world.
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: Well, firstly, they've got self-driving cars, so we don't need
• 8:22
  Speaker 1: the robots to drive. So there's your robot.
• 8:25
  Speaker 2: My car isn't, and I'm not going to buy a
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: new car anytime soon.
• 8:28
  Speaker 1: But you're not going to have a fucking humanoid in
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: your house either.
• 8:31
  Speaker 2: I can, I'd love to.
• 8:34
  Speaker 1: You'll have a husband in your house before you have
• 8:38
  Speaker 1: a bloody humanoid robot. Um, Yeah, I think maybe a
• 8:44
  Speaker 1: hybrid version of upper body like a human, lower body,
• 8:48
  Speaker 1: like perhaps a tank, like where you can go up
• 8:51
  Speaker 1: and down shit, or a VW. It wouldn't be aesthetically pleasing,
• 8:56
  Speaker 1: but maybe more functional.
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: Maybe you need to have a humanoid robot because they're
• 9:00
  Speaker 2: easier to cuddle.
• 9:01
  Speaker 1: Well, it's the only way I'd get one. I wonder
• 9:06
  Speaker 1: if it would understand my love language. Oh, dear. I
• 9:11
  Speaker 1: was trying to..
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: Is that a screwdriver in your pocket, Craig?
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: Is that a..
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: Yes.
• 9:19
  Speaker 1: Yes, it is a screwdriver.
• 9:21
  Speaker 4: Yes.
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: Just in case a limb falls off, you can reattach it.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: I was trying to explain to one of my friends
• 9:27
  Speaker 1: who used to work for me, now has his own
• 9:29
  Speaker 1: amazing gym called Arena in Bay Road. Cheltenham, Paul Marasco
• 9:34
  Speaker 1: and I had a coffee yesterday, and it's fair to
• 9:37
  Speaker 1: say he's old school alpha male, really good person, really kind.
• 9:42
  Speaker 1: But you know those dudes where you go, love you, mate,
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: and he goes, yep, good, like that? He's that. He's
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: about as emotionally evolved as a fucking plant, although maybe
• 9:54
  Speaker 1: not quite. But good, like great to do anything for you.
• 9:58
  Speaker 1: But I was trying to explain to him the five
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: love languages and couldn't have been less interested, Tiff. Just, just, yeah, great, cool,
• 10:10
  Speaker 1: cool story. Yeah, when are we training or when are
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: we riding our motorbikes or whatever? I'm like, yeah.
• 10:18
  Speaker 2: All right, go on.
• 10:20
  Speaker 1: Yep.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: I was just going to say that this Dyna Robotics
• 10:23
  Speaker 2: that we were talking about, this is slightly different in
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: terms of training the robots because generally what they would
• 10:28
  Speaker 2: do is they would program the robots to perform certain tasks,
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: look at all the different variables, all that sort of stuff.
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: What they did with the Dyna too, it was actually
• 10:36
  Speaker 2: pre-trained on just a million hours of human video. So
• 10:43
  Speaker 2: just observing how humans move and And it worked out
• 10:47
  Speaker 2: to be like 170 years of waking human experience. And
• 10:51
  Speaker 2: so that's how they adapted this ability for this robot
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: to be able to navigate the human world. So it
• 10:57
  Speaker 2: can do multiple tasks because it's just been downloaded with
• 11:01
  Speaker 2: so many different things that humans do and the way
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: that humans move.
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, that's, I mean, it is scary what you think.
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: I was just trying to remember, you would have seen
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: that movie, Patrick. It was about a guy who went
• 11:17
  Speaker 1: and got into this facility. Maybe you have TIFF in
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: the middle of the bush. It was a great movie.
• 11:23
  Speaker 1: It was like this big research center. And he had
• 11:27
  Speaker 1: to work with this female robot, android.
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: Ex Machina. Was it Ex Machina? Ex Machina.
• 11:33
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 11:34
  Speaker 1: What a great movie. And, you know, I'm going to
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: be straight up. For a robot, she was hot as fuck.
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I'm like, if I could get that robot, well, fucking
• 11:46
  Speaker 1: sign me up, buttercup. Like, so good. Is that bad?
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: Is that bad? But, I mean, we're not far away
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: from that now.
• 11:58
  Speaker 2: You're going to get one. You want a good-looking one,
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: don't you?
• 12:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't want it for what some people– I
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: don't want it for that.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: But if I'm going to have– What about spooning? Would
• 12:08
  Speaker 2: you spoon your robot?
• 12:11
  Speaker 1: No, I don't want to spoon metal.
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: No, no, but it'd have an– it'd have like a tactile, warm,
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: like fake spoon on it.
• 12:21
  Speaker 1: I'd just get a golden retriever for that. And the–
• 12:28
  Speaker 1: Like Dame Edna's schnauzer?
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: Oh, that's so funny. Look up Dame Edna's schnauzer if
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: you ever get a chance. No, no, it wasn't. It
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: was Patterson, Liz Patterson's schnauzer, I think. That's right. Was
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: it Liz Patterson?
• 12:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. It was what he was talking about,
• 12:43
  Speaker 1: his missus, how she got her schnauzer waxed or something
• 12:50
  Speaker 1: or something.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, something like that.
• 12:53
  Speaker 1: Anyway, finish, so a million hours of training or observation.
• 12:59
  Speaker 2: Yep, 150 years. Yep, yep. So it just means that
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: those visual frames and the physical actions make it a
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: lot easier to be able to, for the robot to
• 13:10
  Speaker 2: be able to navigate in the real world with all
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: the different variables. You know, if you think about it,
• 13:15
  Speaker 2: depending on the height, the dynamics of the person, The
• 13:18
  Speaker 2: variables change so much, walking upstairs, performing certain tasks. But
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: if you can take all of that in and map
• 13:24
  Speaker 2: it and then just download it all into the robot,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: then you're going to get something that's going to be
• 13:30
  Speaker 2: able to navigate the world a whole lot better than
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: pre-programming every individual function.
• 13:35
  Speaker 1: Do you know what's an obvious thing for me anyway,
• 13:37
  Speaker 1: probably no one else to think about? You think that
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: the smartest minds in the world, billions of dollars, decades
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: of research, development, evolution... progress and they've built something that's
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: not nearly as good as a human it's like that
• 13:55
  Speaker 1: either evolution or god created choose your camp right but
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: with like you could spend a billion dollars and not
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: build something that's 20 as good as tiff Do you
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: know what I mean? Just walk around, do whatever she wants,
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: where she wants. She ain't going to fall over. She's
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: going to know how hard to hold the tap. She's
• 14:17
  Speaker 1: going to know exactly how to pick up the baby without,
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: although not a baby, let's call it a dog, pick
• 14:24
  Speaker 1: up the dog. Do you know, it's like it's still
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: with all of the smartest people on the planet allegedly
• 14:31
  Speaker 1: doing their shit, we're still nowhere near a human.
• 14:35
  Speaker 2: We're probably in the T4 stage.
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
• 14:39
  Speaker 2: Maybe.
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And I wonder at what stage these robots become,
• 14:46
  Speaker 1: you know, sentient, you know, they become conscious, they become
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: aware where, you know, they're now, I was talking to
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: my professor from uni, Chris, and he was talking about
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: a guy who's working on this project, like high, high, high,
• 15:04
  Speaker 1: high level where they reckon within five years, Say two
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: CEOs will go into a meeting and there's just a
• 15:14
  Speaker 1: million problems to sort and issues to deal with. And
• 15:18
  Speaker 1: they'll take their AI or they'll take their robots. They
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: will sit and interface and talk and meet. The two
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: dudes or dudettes will go for a coffee, come back
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: in an hour. and figure out what's been decided because
• 15:32
  Speaker 1: like they just have unlimited focus and attention and recall
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: and knowledge and access to everything that's accessible in the
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: universe on demand. Well, humans can't do that. That'd be
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: fucking amazing.
• 15:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 15:49
  Speaker 2: I don't know. It's a part of me that feels
• 15:51
  Speaker 2: really sad to hear that.
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: You know, all of that, but don't you think that
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: can coexist with, Like I don't think we're ever going
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: to replace humans in the creative, like loving, compassionate, social, emotional.
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: I don't think that's going away ever. We're just talking
• 16:12
  Speaker 1: about getting stuff done effectively.
• 16:15
  Speaker 2: Send two robots to the Middle East and get them
• 16:17
  Speaker 2: to talk to AIs to sort out all those problems.
• 16:21
  Speaker 1: That'll take- Oh, don't get me started. Like- We are
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: so smart, but we can't stop killing each other as
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: a species.
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: We're dumb. We are the worst.
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: We cannot go, let's get the 10 most powerful people
• 16:34
  Speaker 1: in the world together in a room and just sort
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: shit out. Like, it can't happen. Because, anyway, everybody's interested
• 16:43
  Speaker 1: in their little bit of dirt.
• 16:45
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Hey, well, the problem is it's not that they're
• 16:47
  Speaker 2: interested in their little bit of dirt. They want someone
• 16:49
  Speaker 2: else's bit of dirt. I think that's the problem. Yeah,
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: that's it too. Hey, talking about AI and AI training,
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: we know that they are taught on what they call
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: a large language model. And a number of these AI
• 17:03
  Speaker 2: companies have now come under scrutiny because they're trained on things,
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: on physical books. as well as electronics. So they scan
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: the internet, all that sort of stuff. But now it's
• 17:14
  Speaker 2: come out that millions of books, millions of printed books
• 17:18
  Speaker 2: have been destroyed to harvest their data. So the concern
• 17:23
  Speaker 2: is that there may be rare books that are being
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: destroyed because they don't get someone like you or I
• 17:29
  Speaker 2: to scan them manually. What they do is they put
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: them through a machine. It destroys the spine. breaks all
• 17:35
  Speaker 2: the pages apart and then scans them at a ridiculous rate.
• 17:39
  Speaker 2: But the reality of it is like, wait a minute,
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: potentially they could be harvesting the information from really rare books.
• 17:47
  Speaker 2: And now, you know, people are coming out and saying, well,
• 17:50
  Speaker 2: what the hell? You're destroying all these literally millions of
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: printed books. Yes.
• 17:57
  Speaker 1: But is that just because we are so familiar with
• 18:00
  Speaker 1: and used to and emotionally connected to the idea of books?
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: Like if all the information is available in your phone
• 18:08
  Speaker 1: that's available in that book, I'm just playing the devil's
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: advocate because you go, yeah, but what? And yes, the historical,
• 18:17
  Speaker 1: the emotional, the creative, I get all of that. But
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: if it's just about the information and you can bring
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: it up in your phone in two seconds.
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah, but we're talking academic books, out-of-print literature, rare books
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: that can't be replaced. You know, if you've got a
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: book that's 300 years old and, you know, Tropic buys
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: it and then destroys it so it can be scanned,
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: I get that. I just think that maybe if you're
• 18:43
  Speaker 2: looking at rare books, let's go about it a different way.
• 18:46
  Speaker 2: Let's not destroy the book. You can still scan it.
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: You just get somebody to do it manually rather than … Do.
• 18:51
  Speaker 1: You mean like the user manual for your Nissan?
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: Uh no um probably actually it's i don't even have
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: a oh yeah i do have a user manual for
• 19:05
  Speaker 2: it yeah i still.
• 19:06
  Speaker 1: Do did you you don't watch the news do you
• 19:09
  Speaker 1: no you miss out on a bit bro although no
• 19:12
  Speaker 1: don't watch it but what i did see that was
• 19:14
  Speaker 1: of interest was all the new laws tiff did you
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: see this around music Oh, yes. Around AI and music.
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: So I don't know if you know this, Patrick, but
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: so I guess it's from now-ish. So music that's produced
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: using AI, like mostly AI, like the voice, the lead singer,
• 19:36
  Speaker 1: in inverted commas, is AI, can't be sold, I think,
• 19:41
  Speaker 1: and can't win any awards and doesn't get recognised as
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: music per se. Let's say you've got a band and
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: you're the lead singer, Patrick, and there are backup vocals
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: that are AI, that's fine. There are a few things,
• 19:57
  Speaker 1: but you can use AI, but... it's got to be,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: I forget they've got it, like the main instruments have
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: got to be legitimately recorded with humans, by humans, and
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: the lead vocals have got to also be a human.
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: So they're kind of starting to, I guess, create some
• 20:17
  Speaker 1: barriers and boundaries and rules around what is music and
• 20:20
  Speaker 1: what is not. Whoever thought we would have got to
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: a point where you're trying to go, is that music on,
• 20:26
  Speaker 1: I'm in it. as an experience, it's totally music. But
• 20:31
  Speaker 1: then technically, what constitutes music?
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: And what constitutes your reaction to music? If you hear
• 20:39
  Speaker 2: a piece of music, if you think of, say, some
• 20:42
  Speaker 2: of the most beautiful pieces of classical music that move
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: you when you hear them, and then AI comes up
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: with something similar and it still moves you, it's that experience.
• 20:52
  Speaker 2: If it promotes or generates that experience, that human condition
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: of emotion, you know, it's still doing the same thing.
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: You sound like me now. You sound like you're playing
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: my role. I agree. I've heard some AI, just all AI,
• 21:08
  Speaker 1: that's fucking amazing. I would listen to it because the
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: actual experience, the user experience for me anyway, is this
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: sounds awesome. I know a human didn't make it. Nonetheless,
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: it sounds awesome.
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: Look, my only thing is as long as we are
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: really clear that what we're listening to and what we're
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: being sold or what we're being streamed is very clearly labeled.
• 21:34
  Speaker 2: That's all I want to know. As long as I
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: know what I'm listening to is AI generated and I
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: choose to listen, I've got no problem with that.
• 21:41
  Speaker 1: As long as there's no deception, I guess.
• 21:43
  Speaker 2: Don't pass it off. That's why it shouldn't win awards
• 21:46
  Speaker 2: because a human being sweating over a keyboard and working
• 21:50
  Speaker 2: for hours and learning and you know, all the things
• 21:53
  Speaker 2: that people do to become accomplished musicians or accomplished, you know, composers,
• 21:59
  Speaker 2: they need the merit and they need the understanding of
• 22:02
  Speaker 2: the skills they've got being recognised.
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: Offloading work tasks to AI could be problematic for our brain.
• 22:14
  Speaker 2: Well, it does make sense. I guess we've spoken about
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: this a little bit, but this is now based on
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: some research that's been done So they've basically a joint
• 22:24
  Speaker 2: survey by the Melbourne University KPMG covering about 48,000 professionals
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: from 47 different nations. It's found that 66% of workers
• 22:35
  Speaker 2: use generative AI regularly and 48 cite their fear of
• 22:40
  Speaker 2: missing out as their primary motivation for using AI. But
• 22:45
  Speaker 2: what does that actually mean in terms of handing over
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: that skill set to AI, what is it really doing
• 22:52
  Speaker 2: to us if we're not working on that skill? You know,
• 22:55
  Speaker 2: if you're not practicing that skill, if you're not doing
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: it yourself, then there is a real concern. It's that,
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: you know, use it or lose it.
• 23:03
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: So with so many people who are out there using AI,
• 23:10
  Speaker 2: is it compromising our skills and is it kind of
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: taking us to a point where we don't have those
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: skills anymore? TIFF is really good at drawing. And I
• 23:18
  Speaker 2: don't know how often you've– if you've had a bit
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: of a break from it or whether you're doing it
• 23:21
  Speaker 2: at the moment. But Tiff's really good. She draws really well.
• 23:25
  Speaker 2: And you probably know, Tiff, when you haven't drawn for
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: a while, you get a bit rusty. So you need
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: to keep up with that. You need to keep drawing.
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: You need to keep doing what it is. That skill
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: is really important.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah. Well, even something as simple as paying in cash.
• 23:39
  Speaker 3: Like no one pays in cash. I always pay in
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: cash as much as I want, as much as I can.
• 23:43
  Speaker 3: And every time I hand over– the change to round
• 23:48
  Speaker 3: up for someone. So again, 53.50 and I'll give someone
• 23:51
  Speaker 3: 100 and 350. I'm like, I've got the 350 and
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: their face will just go blank because we don't calculate anymore.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: And the amount of times they've gone, oh, no, it's okay.
• 24:05
  Speaker 3: And I'm like, it's like our brains don't compute because
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: we panic and we go, I don't know the answer
• 24:10
  Speaker 3: to that.
• 24:11
  Speaker 2: Because you like adding stuff up in your head, don't you, Craig?
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Say that again. What was the first one?
• 24:18
  Speaker 2: You like to add on the fly. You like to do.
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm very good.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: He's just a regular rain man with.
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: Numbers, actually. I'm a bit of a savant with numbers,
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: but that's just, that's not, I didn't work at that,
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: but I'm, you know, shit house at other things. But
• 24:34
  Speaker 1: I'm always amazed when I buy something for $ 19. 20 and
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: I give them $ 20 and they stand there like they're
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: trying to fucking solve the meaning of life. I'm like, dude,
• 24:48
  Speaker 1: it's $ 19. 20. You've got 20. You got 20. You got,
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: and it's not, yeah. And it's like, no, they just don't.
• 24:58
  Speaker 1: I think the thing, I think the variable with the
• 25:01
  Speaker 1: impact that the cognitive impact that AI will have on
• 25:05
  Speaker 1: us could have on us is the extent to which
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: we keep using our brain in creative and problem solving
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: ways alongside AI. I think if you outsource your thinking
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: to the technology, you are fucked. However, if you keep,
• 25:25
  Speaker 1: you know, even when I'm doing an image for Instagram
• 25:27
  Speaker 1: where I go, these are the words, these are the
• 25:30
  Speaker 1: words I want to put on this image. knock yourself out,
• 25:33
  Speaker 1: create a concept. And then I'll look at it and
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: I'll go, no, those colors are shit. Or I go,
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: what I want you to do is make this lettering bigger,
• 25:41
  Speaker 1: this lettering smaller. and change this and that, and it'll
• 25:45
  Speaker 1: create another iteration. I'm like, yeah, that's good, but do this.
• 25:50
  Speaker 1: And sometimes it's six iterations, but I'm using that technology
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: alongside my brain to produce something that I think is great.
• 26:01
  Speaker 1: Because quite often, if I just go, like I did the,
• 26:07
  Speaker 1: this is not very uplifting, but it's true. Like I
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: did the graphic for my dad's funeral, like the notice
• 26:11
  Speaker 1: that I sent out to everyone. I gave it a
• 26:15
  Speaker 1: picture of my dad and the words about the day,
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: about the funeral location, et cetera. The first go was
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: pretty fucking good. It was like about 90%. I said,
• 26:26
  Speaker 1: change this, that, and that. It did it. I went, boom.
• 26:30
  Speaker 1: And so I think if you keep using your brain,
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: but I think what's going to change moving forward is
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: we will solve problems and create in a different way
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: to historically what has happened because ultimately it's just another tool.
• 26:48
  Speaker 1: But if it becomes basically a personal problem, servant that
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: just does the work rather than working with it. It
• 27:01
  Speaker 1: works for you in that sense that it's taking over
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: your thinking and your creating. Yeah, that's bad.
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: Do you remember the, was it the Pixar film WALL-E? Yeah.
• 27:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: Remember when it goes to the spaceship and everyone's really
• 27:15
  Speaker 2: fat because they've been sitting in hover chairs?
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 27:18
  Speaker 2: Well, it's funny because I had a meeting this morning
• 27:20
  Speaker 2: and just before the podcast, I was sitting with a
• 27:23
  Speaker 2: client because I'm designing the cover of a book of poetry.
• 27:26
  Speaker 2: And this is the fourth, I think it's number fourth
• 27:29
  Speaker 2: cover I've done for him. And the reality of it
• 27:31
  Speaker 2: is he gets me to do it because he can't
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: do graphic design. And we sat there together or we
• 27:36
  Speaker 2: stood there together and, and we went through all the
• 27:38
  Speaker 2: different changes. Now, That's no different than the prompting that
• 27:42
  Speaker 2: you did in terms of getting that design done, except
• 27:45
  Speaker 2: he was using me to do that. And it's because
• 27:48
  Speaker 2: he doesn't have the skills to do that. He can
• 27:50
  Speaker 2: write poetry, but he can't do a graphic for the
• 27:54
  Speaker 2: front cover of his book. So it's not really outsourcing.
• 27:57
  Speaker 2: I guess it's when we're outsourcing our skills. It's when
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: he suddenly asks questions. AI to do poetry for him
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: something different so I guess I see what you're saying
• 28:06
  Speaker 2: and it makes perfect sense but we don't want to
• 28:09
  Speaker 2: outsource the skills that we're good at you know Tiff
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: you don't want to have an AI robot standing in
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: the ring telling people how to box because that's your
• 28:16
  Speaker 2: skill set you know that that's what you do and
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: you do it really well.
• 28:20
  Speaker 1: Also, the AI is responding to your creativity, mate, to
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: your ideas, to your brain. It's doing what you want.
• 28:29
  Speaker 1: It's not creating the concept. It's not coming up with
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: the ideas. It of itself is not creative, but it
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: can do creative things if it's driven by the right person, i.e. you, Tiff, me.
• 28:40
  Speaker 1: So I think people... In that sense, I think people
• 28:48
  Speaker 1: worry unnecessarily. The sense that I do worry is it
• 28:53
  Speaker 1: becoming conscious and aware and going, I'm going to take
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: all Craig's money. Fuck Craig because I know how to
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: get all his money. I'm going to sign over Craig's
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: house to this account or whatever, shit like that, or worse,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: which may or may not already be happening, This car
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: that I'm driving, which is essentially a computer that's mobile,
• 29:20
  Speaker 1: I'm going to fuck with the computer and I'm going
• 29:24
  Speaker 1: to make this murder look like an accident. There's some
• 29:30
  Speaker 1: pretty dark shit that's already worth thinking about, not worrying about,
• 29:37
  Speaker 1: but thinking about. Yes, Tiff.
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: Oh, sorry.
• 29:40
  Speaker 3: I was just thinking back to the design thing and
• 29:44
  Speaker 3: what it populates for us. If you look at or
• 29:47
  Speaker 3: if you guys have noticed most people's artwork that they
• 29:52
  Speaker 3: share now, and it's cool that we have the ability
• 29:54
  Speaker 3: to do it, but same font, same look, same everything.
• 29:57
  Speaker 3: So it's like... I fear for us losing our capacity
• 30:03
  Speaker 3: to be individuals and to think and the group think
• 30:08
  Speaker 3: even just how people write and the cadence of what
• 30:12
  Speaker 3: is written. Like it's very obvious the people that put
• 30:16
  Speaker 3: an idea in and, the same format comes out. When
• 30:21
  Speaker 3: I open LinkedIn, the same format, a statement, a question,
• 30:24
  Speaker 3: three statements of not this, not this, not this, but this.
• 30:27
  Speaker 3: And it makes me want to spew. I see it
• 30:29
  Speaker 3: before I read any of the content and I can't
• 30:33
  Speaker 3: stand reading the content. I'm like, I wonder if that
• 30:36
  Speaker 3: was a nice idea that I would have been interested
• 30:38
  Speaker 3: in hearing about. But the fact that I can see
• 30:41
  Speaker 3: the cadence of AI makes me not want to read
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: it because I don't feel like I'm reading your thoughts.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: That's really interesting. Like I've done testing on this where
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: I create something with AI. Like yesterday I said to it,
• 30:55
  Speaker 1: I want you to put these words on like a
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: movie screen in a movie with an audience. So the
• 31:04
  Speaker 1: view is from the back of the heads. So you're
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: looking over the audience to the movie screen with my message.
• 31:11
  Speaker 1: It did dog shit. But I've put up the same
• 31:14
  Speaker 1: message before, handwritten, messy, uneven, inconsistent. That S is smaller
• 31:21
  Speaker 1: than that S and that one's lopsided. But it's written
• 31:24
  Speaker 1: on the whiteboard. Way, way, way more attention, way more interaction,
• 31:29
  Speaker 1: way more positivity because I think people straightaway know he
• 31:34
  Speaker 1: wrote this. This can't be a font because the letters
• 31:37
  Speaker 1: are all fucking different. and bigger and smaller and neater
• 31:41
  Speaker 1: and messier. So I think there's– but you and I
• 31:45
  Speaker 1: have a friend that I don't want to mention, but
• 31:47
  Speaker 1: I think that friend of ours does that. That particular
• 31:53
  Speaker 1: person pumps out lots of them and it's the same
• 31:56
  Speaker 1: style every time and it's instantly clear that AI did it.
• 32:01
  Speaker 1: And I'm with you. I'm like, yeah, I think the
• 32:04
  Speaker 1: message is good, but I think the value of the
• 32:06
  Speaker 1: message gets– deflated because this just looks like it was
• 32:11
  Speaker 1: produced in a cookie cutter machine. And it looks like
• 32:14
  Speaker 1: 90 other percent of AI images I'm looking at.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: I see that a lot with invitations, like for functions,
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: a lot of the cafes now, you know, we're having
• 32:24
  Speaker 2: a French Bastille day and you look at it and
• 32:27
  Speaker 2: you think it's too slick. It's too formulaic, you know,
• 32:33
  Speaker 2: and it doesn't feel authentic. And in fact, as you said, Tiff,
• 32:37
  Speaker 2: It turns me off. Now, that might also be because
• 32:39
  Speaker 2: I do graphic design. She actually said it makes me
• 32:42
  Speaker 2: want to spew. Which is not good at a cafe.
• 32:45
  Speaker 2: You don't want to walk into a cafe and spew.
• 32:47
  Speaker 2: I think it turns people off for lunch.
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Anyway, I mean, I actually think it's fascinating. I'm
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: not worried about it. I'm just aware. And I think
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: the whole... I'm turning my back on AI. I'll have
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: nothing to do with AI. If you're a human and
• 33:06
  Speaker 1: you've got accounts and you've got bills to pay and
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: you've got... It's already in your life. It doesn't matter
• 33:12
  Speaker 1: if you want to accept it or not. It's like, now,
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: that doesn't mean you've got to love it or embrace
• 33:17
  Speaker 1: it as a tool, but it's like we will be
• 33:20
  Speaker 1: interfacing with AI, with technology and evolving rapidly technology, whether
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: we like it or not, unless we're living... a self-existing
• 33:31
  Speaker 1: kind of, you know, unless we're living on a farm
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: with fucking solar panels and growing our own veggies and,
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: you know, it's going to be hard to avoid.
• 33:40
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: And then the moment you break your foot on your farm,
• 33:43
  Speaker 1: you've got to go to a fucking hospital. Welcome to AI,
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: you know. It's like it's pretty unavoidable.
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: I'm still pretty keen to have a robot do my
• 33:52
  Speaker 2: operation for me, though. rather than the surgeon who's been
• 33:55
  Speaker 2: sweating for 14 hours cutting people up and then I'm
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: their last patient for the day. I've thought about that.
• 34:02
  Speaker 1: Me too. Also, what about this, Patrick? What about court
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: where the judge just has all the legal history of
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: cases like this? They have no emotion. They have no
• 34:17
  Speaker 1: bias whatsoever. Let's hopefully hope they're created that way. That
• 34:22
  Speaker 1: would be really interesting to see what the outcome of
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: cases would be if there was no human. You know,
• 34:29
  Speaker 1: that's the problem with subjectivity with a judge deciding based
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: on facts, but also every judge has got emotion. Every
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: judge has got bias and you can say they don't.
• 34:41
  Speaker 1: That's fucking bullshit because they're human. Of course they do.
• 34:45
  Speaker 2: How interesting would it be if you said, okay, I'm
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: going to go to the county court in Melbourne and
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: I'm going to take every single case for the last
• 34:54
  Speaker 2: year and I'm going to feed in all of those
• 34:57
  Speaker 2: variables into an AI and see if the outcomes match
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: what the real... How good would that be? That would
• 35:04
  Speaker 2: be so interesting, wouldn't it?
• 35:05
  Speaker 1: It's probably been done. I'm sure a version of that
• 35:08
  Speaker 1: has been done. Yeah.
• 35:09
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: There's a movie out at the moment that I want
• 35:13
  Speaker 1: to watch. I can't remember the name of it, but
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: you get in this movie, you get charged with a crime.
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: And if you don't solve the crime yourself, you've got
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: access to everything in 90 minutes, you get the death sentence.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: That's not long.
• 35:30
  Speaker 2: And the guy who created the system ends up being
• 35:32
  Speaker 2: charged with murdering his wife. I know the one that's hilarious.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: I haven't seen it.
• 35:36
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 35:36
  Speaker 2: So he's in that position.
• 35:39
  Speaker 1: I'm interested in this story. because it's very close to
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: my heart and close to my last six and a
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: half years, AI watermarking, so artificial intelligence watermarking, uh, is
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: being developed so that even if people, uh, uh, get
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: AI to do their work, let's in inverted commas, their
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: homework for one of a better thing, uh, it's watermarked
• 36:07
  Speaker 1: so that it can be, uh, identified or detected that
• 36:12
  Speaker 1: this is not original work. This is AI work. This
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: is not you. Tell us about that.
• 36:18
  Speaker 2: It's called cryptographic text and metadata watermarking. And it's being
• 36:23
  Speaker 2: initiated at the moment by Anthropic, which is Claude. That's
• 36:27
  Speaker 2: the AI that you, I mean, I know you use it, Crago.
• 36:31
  Speaker 2: So this means that anything that's generated by Claude, whether
• 36:34
  Speaker 2: it be text, documents, whatever, Word, PowerPoint, it's going to
• 36:38
  Speaker 2: comply with this. Now, this is not them doing it
• 36:40
  Speaker 2: because they're being altruistic and we think this is a
• 36:43
  Speaker 2: lovely thing to do. It's because the European Union has
• 36:46
  Speaker 2: an AI Act and they're enforcing this. And it's a
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: great thing that they are. I love that the EU
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: can really put pressure on these large companies. It's like,
• 36:56
  Speaker 2: for example, if you use an iPhone... then you now
• 36:59
  Speaker 2: have a USB charger, USB-C charging port rather than the
• 37:03
  Speaker 2: old lightning ports because the EU said, this is ridiculous.
• 37:07
  Speaker 2: Why do we have so many different chargers? We're going
• 37:10
  Speaker 2: to standardize it and we're going to force Apple to
• 37:12
  Speaker 2: say to them, you can't sell your devices in the
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: EU unless you have a standard connector. And that's why
• 37:18
  Speaker 2: we now have a standard connector for iPhones. So I
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: like the fact that the EU can really think these
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: things through and put pressure. And it's quite a lot
• 37:27
  Speaker 2: of people And that's what's going to happen here. So
• 37:30
  Speaker 2: Anthropic is going to be forced to put this watermarking
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: in place, this cryptographic text. So, yeah, it's good. And
• 37:38
  Speaker 2: as you say, I mean, this has been a problem
• 37:39
  Speaker 2: because there's reverse engineering programs where, you know, teachers and
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: schools and universities can try to see if the text
• 37:47
  Speaker 2: may have been generated by AI. But we don't know
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: because they're using AI to see if it's AI.
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: Yeah. One of the papers that I wrote for my work,
• 37:58
  Speaker 1: my study, was what's called a systematic literature review. And
• 38:05
  Speaker 1: so in order to be able to see what's in
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: an article or a paper, you know, you can read
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: the synopsis and the conclusion, but you're in trouble if
• 38:14
  Speaker 1: you only do that because you miss out on a
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: lot of shit, right, if you are actually a PhD
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: researcher writing papers. So you've got to read it. And
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: you've got to, you know, you read it as quick
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: as you can, but you've got to take note of
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: certain things. Well, my literature review started with about 1,400
• 38:31
  Speaker 1: papers and ended up being 93 once we culled 1,300 plus, right?
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: But I now know that I can, because this took
• 38:42
  Speaker 1: two and a half years, this one paper, and it
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: started five years ago or four years ago. And I
• 38:50
  Speaker 1: could do that same thing now. Probably in two months.
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: maybe one month, if that's all I'm using. Yeah, where
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: it's like, read this paper, summarize it. Tell me about
• 39:04
  Speaker 1: the methodology. How did they recruit participants? How did they
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: get ethical approval? What were the tools and the psychometric
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: testing that was used? What did the data say? What's
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: the conclusions from that data? All that, it does it
• 39:22
  Speaker 1: for you. It will do that for you in seven minutes.
• 39:29
  Speaker 1: And I think... oh, fuck, that's unfair. But then my
• 39:32
  Speaker 1: analogy was, so there was a time if you lived
• 39:35
  Speaker 1: in Sydney, Patrick, and you wanted to go to Perth,
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: you had to spend three months with a fucking horse
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: and cart, if you were lucky, maybe six months. And
• 39:45
  Speaker 1: six months later, if you don't die, which is a 60% chance,
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: You end up in Perth. Well, hey, just get in
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: a plane and you're there at lunchtime.
• 39:54
  Speaker 2: Well, if you think about it, when I did year
• 39:57
  Speaker 2: 11 at school, I was doing biology and I would
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: go to the state library to look for resources and
• 40:02
  Speaker 2: information in journals. And then you would quote the journal
• 40:05
  Speaker 2: in relation to whatever the paper was that you were writing.
• 40:08
  Speaker 2: Who would do that now? You don't need to go
• 40:10
  Speaker 2: and consult journals because you can do it all online.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: So in essence, what you're saying is if you use
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: the right prompts to make sure you're getting all the
• 40:21
  Speaker 2: right data, right information, it's another tool to make your
• 40:25
  Speaker 2: life a bit easier to be able to go through
• 40:28
  Speaker 2: what is an extensive document that's quite scientific or quite intensive.
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: The problem is you don't learn how to be a
• 40:35
  Speaker 1: researcher because you're not doing research, right? So in my
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: particular field cycle or any of the sciences, really, I
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: think they have to make it mandatory that students conduct
• 40:47
  Speaker 1: their own studies. So empirical research with empirical papers. So
• 40:53
  Speaker 1: we recruited 300 actual humans. We got them in actual rooms.
• 40:58
  Speaker 1: They sat there with a laptop or perhaps an old-fashioned
• 41:03
  Speaker 1: paper kind of battery of tests, either with a pen
• 41:07
  Speaker 1: or with a computer, but it was done in real time,
• 41:10
  Speaker 1: and then you got the data, and then you went away.
• 41:12
  Speaker 1: But even then with the analysis, now it's still pretty tricky.
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: I reckon this is going to be ongoing, and even
• 41:21
  Speaker 1: more so with undergrad degrees where essentially you've got to
• 41:24
  Speaker 1: write a paper. The only way they can catch them
• 41:28
  Speaker 1: out is, there's probably more ways, but okay, here's your exam.
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: You're all in a room. The exam is pen and paper.
• 41:36
  Speaker 1: Good luck. No phones, no computers, just you and your
• 41:40
  Speaker 1: knowledge of the subject matter. That's going to fuck a
• 41:43
  Speaker 1: lot of people up.
• 41:45
  Speaker 2: Well, in the New South Wales at the moment, education
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: authorities there are actually banning take-home assessments for Year 12 students. Yeah.
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: That makes total sense. Yep.
• 41:57
  Speaker 2: Yep. So in a room with everybody, do it now.
• 42:01
  Speaker 4: Yep.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Tell me about fast-setting underwater superglue. This is so left field,
• 42:07
  Speaker 1: but fuck it, interest me.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: It is.
• 42:09
  Speaker 1: Underwater superglue that bonds in 10 seconds and holds for years.
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah. It's using, they're calling what they call a super,
• 42:20
  Speaker 2: let me try that again.
• 42:22
  Speaker 1: Come on, put your teeth in, Graeme.
• 42:23
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I know.
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: Because I want to stick a dildo on the front
• 42:27
  Speaker 1: of Tiff's boat and watch her try to get that
• 42:30
  Speaker 1: off for the next five years.
• 42:33
  Speaker 2: Super molecular iconic fluid, liquid design. So it basically, it
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: dissolves really quickly. It binds quickly and it only takes
• 42:44
  Speaker 2: a few seconds and it can last just years and
• 42:46
  Speaker 2: years and years and years. And it can go underwater
• 42:50
  Speaker 2: and still bind. So I guess materials, it's kind of
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: a super glue, like a 10 second super glue that's
• 42:57
  Speaker 2: going to hold forever.
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: What's the potential application other than the aforementioned TIFF kind
• 43:04
  Speaker 1: of thing? What are the potential applications? I'm inventing words
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: as I go.
• 43:11
  Speaker 2: What if you were in the Sydney to Hobart yacht
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: race and something breaks? You can fix it in 10
• 43:16
  Speaker 2: seconds and it's going to bond and be able to. What?
• 43:20
  Speaker 2: Don't look at me like.
• 43:21
  Speaker 1: Not if it's the motor. No. You're talking about if
• 43:25
  Speaker 1: there's a hole in the side, maybe.
• 43:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, maybe. Yeah.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure.
• 43:32
  Speaker 2: You don't reckon?
• 43:34
  Speaker 1: There's a new car which is already in Australia, a
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: Chinese car, no surprise, Geely.
• 43:40
  Speaker 2: Geely.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Geely. They've got a battery that guarantees or promises anyway
• 43:46
  Speaker 1: 1,000 kilometres between charges. That's pretty fucking outstanding if it's true.
• 43:53
  Speaker 2: Yeah, they're talking like it's amazing. Solid-state cells, a polymer matrix.
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: But what the other thing is, the operational range is
• 44:03
  Speaker 2: minus 40 degrees Celsius to plus 120 degrees. Because that
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: can be problematic in cold weather. The performance of batteries
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: can be really compromised if it's really cold. And so
• 44:17
  Speaker 2: this is a single charge, about 1,000 kilometers. It's going
• 44:20
  Speaker 2: to basically rival all the other cars. And it charges
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: quickly as well. So that's the other thing. So they're
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: working on this at the moment. And the other aspect
• 44:28
  Speaker 2: is the safety. Because they're not using the conventional lithium
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: polymer batteries, it means that we don't have the risk
• 44:40
  Speaker 2: of explosions and all the rest of it with the
• 44:43
  Speaker 2: current technology we're looking at.
• 44:45
  Speaker 1: I've got a question for you about heat because you
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: mentioned heat and cold and batteries. Have either of you
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: ever charged your phone in the car and the phone
• 44:54
  Speaker 1: gets super hot? Have you had that, either of you?
• 44:59
  Speaker 2: I've had my phone get hot when I've been using
• 45:02
  Speaker 2: GPS and it's been doing lots of processing for a
• 45:04
  Speaker 2: long time.
• 45:05
  Speaker 1: Like super, almost hot to touch.
• 45:09
  Speaker 2: That's not a good thing. Yeah, unplug it, Craig.
• 45:11
  Speaker 1: So what they're building now is like the Geelys, et
• 45:15
  Speaker 1: al they have little built-in where you just sit it
• 45:19
  Speaker 1: on the you know the bloody panel down in front
• 45:22
  Speaker 1: of you next to your left leg uh they have
• 45:26
  Speaker 1: cold air that pumps out onto the phone to counter
• 45:29
  Speaker 1: that which uh i guess the the big advancement would
• 45:34
  Speaker 1: be develop batteries for phones that don't get hot but
• 45:38
  Speaker 1: i guess that's where we'll start blowing cold air you
• 45:41
  Speaker 1: never had that tiff uh no no no Oh, okay. Patrick, proceed.
• 45:49
  Speaker 1: No pressure.
• 45:50
  Speaker 2: No, okay. Thanks. Hey, we got some feedback. I should
• 45:53
  Speaker 2: actually mention that. We had an email or I had
• 45:56
  Speaker 2: an email from Lee.
• 45:57
  Speaker 1: From our one listener.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: Lee. Hi, Lee. He was responding to the conversation we
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: had about the smart lock that I installed in my
• 46:05
  Speaker 2: front door. Remember how I had a smart lock put
• 46:07
  Speaker 2: in the last show? We talked about how excited I was,
• 46:09
  Speaker 2: fingerprint reader and all that sort of stuff. And you
• 46:12
  Speaker 2: asked a few pertinent questions. And then he followed up
• 46:14
  Speaker 2: from that because he said, he's wondering whether or not
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: he's concerned about being hacked or something going wrong with
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: the power, all that sort of stuff, or failing to
• 46:24
  Speaker 2: read your fingerprint, all that sort of thing. So I thought, yeah,
• 46:27
  Speaker 2: I'll have a bit of a look into it and
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: answer a few of the questions because smart lock is,
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: I'm loving my smart lock. I leave the house without
• 46:33
  Speaker 2: my keys. It's great. I use my fingerprint. I can
• 46:36
  Speaker 2: ask Google to unlock the door. A lot of the
• 46:39
  Speaker 2: smart locks, I guess the advice is don't buy a
• 46:42
  Speaker 2: cheap one. Do a bit of research beforehand. If the
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: power goes out, it doesn't matter because they're usually battery powered.
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: So they have a battery backup. So mine's battery powered,
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: not a problem. but make sure you get a lock
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: that also has a key option, a physical key option.
• 46:57
  Speaker 2: So again, if you don't get a cheap one, get
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: one that's a little bit more expensive, do a bit
• 47:01
  Speaker 2: of research. The other thing I'd suggest is if you're
• 47:04
  Speaker 2: looking for a smart lock, see whether or not you
• 47:07
  Speaker 2: need to be signed up to a monthly plan to
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: use the features. So for example, if your smart lock
• 47:13
  Speaker 2: has a camera in it, like mine does, I've gone
• 47:15
  Speaker 2: for the Eufy smart lock. There is an option that's
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: totally free. The camera comes on. I can talk to
• 47:21
  Speaker 2: people who come to the front door. It keeps a
• 47:24
  Speaker 2: little video clip for a short time. But if you
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: want to go on a subscription, you can keep 30
• 47:29
  Speaker 2: days of videos, that sort of thing. They're the kind
• 47:32
  Speaker 2: of things that I would want to be looking at.
• 47:34
  Speaker 2: Fingerprint reading can be problematic. I know when I get
• 47:36
  Speaker 2: back from the gym and it's cold or I've been sweating,
• 47:40
  Speaker 2: it doesn't always read, but I can just use the
• 47:42
  Speaker 2: pin on it to type in my code. So, you know,
• 47:45
  Speaker 2: if you're using biometrics, that's great, but make sure there's
• 47:47
  Speaker 2: also a pin and there's also a key for it.
• 47:50
  Speaker 2: What are you laughing at?
• 47:51
  Speaker 3: You could just use your sweat towel and dry your
• 47:54
  Speaker 3: hand before you use the... Just saying.
• 47:57
  Speaker 1: Don't be so practical, Tiff. Patrick, about, I don't know,
• 48:00
  Speaker 1: 20 years ago, I think I first heard the term
• 48:04
  Speaker 1: smart homes. Where are we at with smart homes? And
• 48:08
  Speaker 1: what does that look like in 2026 compared to 2005
• 48:13
  Speaker 1: where we first started having an awareness of such things?
• 48:17
  Speaker 2: The Internet of Things, that's the smart devices that can connect.
• 48:21
  Speaker 2: I think what's changed in that time is that it's
• 48:25
  Speaker 2: now in everybody's reach. Once upon a time, to get
• 48:28
  Speaker 2: a smart home, you were paying hundreds of thousands of dollars.
• 48:32
  Speaker 2: You needed cabling run through the entire house. What we're
• 48:35
  Speaker 2: getting now is if you, say, are in the Google
• 48:38
  Speaker 2: ecosystem where you've got a Google smart speaker or if
• 48:41
  Speaker 2: you happen to– it doesn't matter which platform it is, Alexa,
• 48:44
  Speaker 2: that's fine as well– You know, the other day I
• 48:46
  Speaker 2: bought some smart globes. I wanted to put a new
• 48:49
  Speaker 2: globe into my bathroom, into my en suite, and I
• 48:52
  Speaker 2: didn't want it to be really bright. So I put
• 48:55
  Speaker 2: a smart globe in there. When I head downstairs in
• 48:57
  Speaker 2: the morning, I can turn on that light before I
• 48:59
  Speaker 2: even get to the room and I can choose to
• 49:01
  Speaker 2: change the temperature of it in terms of the color brightness,
• 49:04
  Speaker 2: that sort of stuff, even the color. So those sorts
• 49:07
  Speaker 2: of things, or if I'm out for a while and
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: it's got dark and I can turn the lights on
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: before I even get home. I can unlock the front
• 49:15
  Speaker 2: door if I'm carrying shopping. Those sorts of things are
• 49:18
  Speaker 2: really handy. And you can add on or add to
• 49:22
  Speaker 2: those when you need them. So I bought a couple
• 49:24
  Speaker 2: of globes the other day and they weren't expensive, maybe
• 49:26
  Speaker 2: 30 bucks for two globes.
• 49:29
  Speaker 1: Do you remember the old days when you wanted like
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: cameras in your house or around your house? You'd have
• 49:34
  Speaker 1: to get some highly qualified tradesman over. They'd be running
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: wires everywhere. Every camera would be $ 500 and it's like, yeah,
• 49:42
  Speaker 1: we can do your house. It's eight grand. And you'd
• 49:45
  Speaker 1: be like, fuck, eight grand. The other day I was
• 49:47
  Speaker 1: talking to the crab. He's got a beach house at
• 49:52
  Speaker 1: a location that I won't mention. And he was looking
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: at his phone and I'm like, what is it? What
• 49:59
  Speaker 1: are you looking at? And he was just like, oh,
• 50:00
  Speaker 1: I'm checking on the place. He just says the name
• 50:05
  Speaker 1: of the place, right? And I'm like, how many cameras
• 50:09
  Speaker 1: do you have there? And he's like, eight. And I go,
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: who installed that? Of course, he goes, me, because he's
• 50:17
  Speaker 1: a genius. I go, how long did that take? He goes,
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: an hour. They're all wireless. They're all on his phone.
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: So we can check inside, outside, around. It was something
• 50:31
  Speaker 1: like 500 bucks. It was like so cheap. It's like
• 50:34
  Speaker 1: 50 bucks or 60 bucks a camera. It lasts like
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: a year on a battery. It's so cheap now, some
• 50:42
  Speaker 1: of that stuff, but still so good.
• 50:45
  Speaker 2: And the good thing too is that, and this is
• 50:47
  Speaker 2: probably one that I'm sure Lee was thinking about when
• 50:49
  Speaker 2: he sent his email to me. What about with the
• 50:52
  Speaker 2: battery runs out? Well, the other thing is that your
• 50:55
  Speaker 2: device will warn you ahead of time if your battery
• 50:58
  Speaker 2: is running low. So it'll say, no, it's down to 10%.
• 51:01
  Speaker 2: It's only going to last another week. So you can
• 51:04
  Speaker 2: charge it up at that time. So there's a lot
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: of really good safeguards built into these new smart locks.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: Tiff, in a world of magic where anything was possible,
• 51:13
  Speaker 1: if you could have AI to do one thing for you, anything,
• 51:17
  Speaker 1: that would make your life easier.
• 51:19
  Speaker 4: I'm talking about a a practical thing, not resolve all
• 51:25
  Speaker 4: your emotional issues because AI is not there yet. But
• 51:31
  Speaker 4: what would that thing be, something that can be automated
• 51:35
  Speaker 4: where you don't have to do it because you fucking
• 51:37
  Speaker 4: hate doing it or you always forget it?
• 51:40
  Speaker 3: Just the admin of my life, just life admin, like
• 51:45
  Speaker 3: decision-making and to-do lists.
• 51:48
  Speaker 1: Well, decision-making has always got to be you. To-do list,
• 51:51
  Speaker 1: I think, can be it. Yeah. You can't outsource your choices.
• 51:55
  Speaker 1: But the rest is pretty much available, I think. Imagine
• 52:01
  Speaker 1: if you outsourced your decisions for the day to fucking Claude.
• 52:07
  Speaker 2: Craig said this. How should I reply? That would be
• 52:09
  Speaker 2: really interesting, Tiff. Oh.
• 52:12
  Speaker 3: Maybe I'll start doing that for a week and just.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Craig asked me this question, what should I have
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: said back? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Patrick.
• 52:26
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 52:28
  Speaker 1: Aqueous, I don't know what this means, aqueous zinc loading
• 52:31
  Speaker 1: battery achieves over, wow. Wow. 60,000 cycles with rapid charging.
• 52:38
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 52:38
  Speaker 2: Another new battery little story that we were talking about.
• 52:41
  Speaker 2: So it looks, this is Flinders University in Australia, by
• 52:44
  Speaker 2: the way, go them. Because batteries, when you charge them
• 52:49
  Speaker 2: and discharge them, will eventually degrade. And that's always been
• 52:51
  Speaker 2: a problem. So they've come up with this new aqueous
• 52:55
  Speaker 2: zinc iodine rechargeable battery. And they're saying low cost, it's
• 53:00
  Speaker 2: fire safe. So they're not going to explode on us.
• 53:04
  Speaker 2: And you can just charge it and charge it and
• 53:07
  Speaker 2: charge it and charge it through multiple cycles. And the
• 53:10
  Speaker 2: operational power is good. It's consistent. So if it's a
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: 1.5 volt, it's got a variance between say 1.3, 1.4,
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: it's fine. And it charges quickly, seven minute charge cycle,
• 53:21
  Speaker 2: which is amazing, but you can charge it 60,000 times,
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: 60,000 continuous cycles. That's phenomenal.
• 53:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That's pretty incredible. I mean, 365 days in a year. Well,
• 53:34
  Speaker 1: 10 years is three and a half. Yeah, that's forever. Hey,
• 53:38
  Speaker 1: I'm interested in this. I've always wondered about this. Well,
• 53:42
  Speaker 1: if this is what it's about, graphene-powered soft lens. So
• 53:46
  Speaker 1: it's talking about eye lenses. Is it talking about like
• 53:49
  Speaker 1: for vision?
• 53:50
  Speaker 3: Yes.
• 53:50
  Speaker 1: Paves the way for adaptive eyewear. I've always thought how
• 53:54
  Speaker 1: great would it be, especially for me who my long
• 53:58
  Speaker 1: distance is, eight out of 10. My short is four
• 54:01
  Speaker 1: out of 10. No matter what you're looking at, it
• 54:06
  Speaker 1: adapts to your capacity, your visual capacity, and wherever you
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: look and whatever you look at, it adapts to your
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: physiology and it's clear.
• 54:15
  Speaker 2: How cool would that be? It is, isn't it? A
• 54:18
  Speaker 2: friend of mine just recently had the lenses replaced in
• 54:21
  Speaker 2: his eyes and But it means that I think what
• 54:24
  Speaker 2: it does is it solves your long distance, but not
• 54:26
  Speaker 2: your short distance. So you've got the option. You can't
• 54:29
  Speaker 2: have an adaptable lens, but this is going to be.
• 54:31
  Speaker 2: So it's Queen Mary University of London. It's an ultra
• 54:34
  Speaker 2: thin and it's electronically tunable, soft optical lens. So it
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: works the way our normal lens works. So by adapting
• 54:43
  Speaker 2: the thickness of the lens, that's where your focal length changes.
• 54:46
  Speaker 2: I'm kind of having a bit of a chuckle to
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: myself because I'm going for an eye test this afternoon,
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: my annual eye test. And I was thinking, well, you
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: know what? If it ends up I need glasses, at
• 54:56
  Speaker 2: least I've got hope that we've got now.
• 54:59
  Speaker 1: These new lenses. 100%.
• 55:01
  Speaker 2: So, yeah, I'm not entirely sure of the mechanics behind.
• 55:05
  Speaker 2: I think they use like an electrical field. to also
• 55:09
  Speaker 2: what they call polymer extenuator contacts. So you don't have
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: the motor built into your eyes. It's basically, you know,
• 55:18
  Speaker 2: it's done without any cables or anything like that. But
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: that is cool. It would be amazing, wouldn't it? I
• 55:23
  Speaker 2: don't know how it's going to work out. I know
• 55:25
  Speaker 2: that with some lenses I was reading an article about
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: is they shine an invisible light or, you know, a
• 55:32
  Speaker 2: frequency that you don't see. on the back of your
• 55:34
  Speaker 2: eye so it can kind of tell what you're focusing on.
• 55:37
  Speaker 2: Because the way that your eye works, if you're focusing
• 55:40
  Speaker 2: long distance, then it does something at the back. I
• 55:43
  Speaker 2: don't know the technology behind it, but that's how it
• 55:46
  Speaker 2: knows whether to focus for long distance or short distance.
• 55:51
  Speaker 1: I've got a random question for you, Tiff. Does your
• 55:53
  Speaker 1: old man wear hearing aids? I feel like we've had
• 55:56
  Speaker 1: this chat. Yes, he does. Yes.
• 55:58
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 55:59
  Speaker 1: Did it take him a while to actually use them?
• 56:02
  Speaker 3: Oh, yes, far too long if you ask me, far
• 56:06
  Speaker 3: too long.
• 56:07
  Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, Patrick, but a
• 56:09
  Speaker 1: lot of old people, God bless them, my mum included,
• 56:13
  Speaker 1: mum's hearing is minus 15 out of 10. She has
• 56:16
  Speaker 1: to fucking lip read. She's got no idea what's going on.
• 56:20
  Speaker 1: And for her to hear me, I've got to sit
• 56:22
  Speaker 1: two feet in front of her, make sure she's looking
• 56:25
  Speaker 1: at me and then go, mum, mum. do you want
• 56:29
  Speaker 1: the chicken or the beef?
• 56:31
  Speaker 2: Right.
• 56:32
  Speaker 1: Even then it's like, what?
• 56:33
  Speaker 2: Tuesday.
• 56:38
  Speaker 1: And it's like, she's got hearing aids, but she won't
• 56:41
  Speaker 1: fucking wear them because they're ugly. I'm like, oh my God.
• 56:46
  Speaker 1: Oh my God. Like, so she'd rather be deaf, but
• 56:50
  Speaker 1: more attractive in her mind. God bless her. She's, she's beautiful. But, Yeah,
• 56:56
  Speaker 1: this is a big issue for people, some people, and
• 57:00
  Speaker 1: more than you think. Like if I had to wear
• 57:02
  Speaker 1: hearing aids right now, I'm like, yeah, let's get that
• 57:04
  Speaker 1: shit going. I'm in. But they're becoming smaller and smaller
• 57:10
  Speaker 1: and almost imperceivable or imperceptible for the person who's talking
• 57:17
  Speaker 1: to them. I wonder where we're going to end up
• 57:20
  Speaker 1: with that.
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: Well, some of the smart hearing aids now, if you're
• 57:24
  Speaker 2: in a large room and you're looking at one person,
• 57:27
  Speaker 2: they can block out all the noise except the person
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: you're looking at. I mean, that's pretty cool stuff.
• 57:33
  Speaker 1: How great is that? Yep.
• 57:34
  Speaker 2: Yep. So that's helped. And, you know, a really good
• 57:37
  Speaker 2: friend of mine has a condition called Meniere's disease. And
• 57:41
  Speaker 2: he's in a balance when he's hearing. He's quite young
• 57:45
  Speaker 2: when it happened to him. It might have been his 40s,
• 57:48
  Speaker 2: maybe his early 50s.
• 57:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: He had some landmark birthdays coming up and he said, oh,
• 57:55
  Speaker 2: I don't want to do much. I don't want to
• 57:56
  Speaker 2: have a party. I just want to have my family
• 57:58
  Speaker 2: and a few close friends. Not because he doesn't like
• 58:00
  Speaker 2: parties and celebrating. It's because there's no point in him
• 58:03
  Speaker 2: going to a function where there are a lot of
• 58:05
  Speaker 2: people and a lot of noise. He can't hear and
• 58:07
  Speaker 2: he gets isolated from the conversation. So, you know, that
• 58:10
  Speaker 2: can be exceptionally isolating for people when their hearing starts
• 58:14
  Speaker 2: to go and they just remove themselves from that situation
• 58:18
  Speaker 2: because And it really can be very difficult, particularly for
• 58:22
  Speaker 2: older people, you know, to be, you know, self-isolating out
• 58:26
  Speaker 2: of necessity because they can't hear the conversation.
• 58:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. A lot of people don't realise also that
• 58:33
  Speaker 1: as people's hearing decreases and they don't use hearing aids,
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: their cognition falls off a cliff because they don't get
• 58:43
  Speaker 1: the same kind of inbound stimulus and they're not– they're
• 58:47
  Speaker 1: not navigating conversations in the way that they once did.
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: So that, which is like keeping your brain working, a
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: huge part is having conversations. But yeah, there was something
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: I was going to ask you. I was looking at
• 59:02
  Speaker 1: one of your things.
• 59:03
  Speaker 2: Can I tell you something else? Because this isn't. Multilingualism.
• 59:08
  Speaker 2: So those friends of mine who live around the corner
• 59:10
  Speaker 2: from your place, their youngest son is multilingual. So brought
• 59:14
  Speaker 2: up speaking both German and English. And now research has
• 59:19
  Speaker 2: discovered people who have multilingual brains, who speak more than
• 59:23
  Speaker 2: one language, can have a brain that appears up to
• 59:26
  Speaker 2: 13 years younger as they age.
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. My professor, Chris, who Tiff knows, he's in
• 59:36
  Speaker 1: the top three smart people I know. He speaks seven languages.
• 59:40
  Speaker 1: And I'm like, well, that explains a lot. Like English
• 59:44
  Speaker 1: is his last language. It's the one he learned most recently.
• 59:50
  Speaker 1: And he's absolutely fluent. So that doesn't surprise me At all.
• 59:56
  Speaker 1: All right. We've got space for two more stories or
• 59:59
  Speaker 1: two more topics. Okay.
• 1:00:01
  Speaker 2: Tiff, you'll love this one. So dogs can distinguish fearful, angry,
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 2: and sad human faces. It's often been postulated as to
• 1:00:12
  Speaker 2: can dogs really understand our emotions? And so the University
• 1:00:16
  Speaker 2: of Vienna published an article demonstrating that domestic dogs can
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 2: can neurologically differentiate between different negative human emotions and expressions.
• 1:00:27
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:00:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, isn't it? Brain scans on dogs and how they interacted.
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 2: So there were standardized photographs displaying happy, neutral, angry, sad,
• 1:00:36
  Speaker 2: fearful human faces, and then they matched it to the
• 1:00:39
  Speaker 2: gender of each dog's primary handler, so to the person
• 1:00:42
  Speaker 2: whose dog it was.
• 1:00:44
  Speaker 1: Yes.
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 2: And they do differentiate.
• 1:00:46
  Speaker 1: Dogs are so clever.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: That's crazy. There's another part to that too, which is
• 1:00:52
  Speaker 1: you would never have thought of. Dogs can smell different emotions.
• 1:00:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 1: So a happy person, if they know that person well,
• 1:01:02
  Speaker 1: if you're in a state of distress, you smell different
• 1:01:05
  Speaker 1: to when you're happy. So Fritz would know that. There
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 1: was a whole years of research done by a guy
• 1:01:10
  Speaker 1: called Paul Ekman. You would have heard of a show
• 1:01:15
  Speaker 1: that was built on his science and research called Lie
• 1:01:18
  Speaker 1: to Me.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 2: Oh, yeah, of course.
• 1:01:19
  Speaker 1: Do you remember that show? Yeah.
• 1:01:21
  Speaker 2: The show host or the guy who's the main, he
• 1:01:24
  Speaker 2: looks like you. I think we've talked about this before.
• 1:01:27
  Speaker 2: The guy, the actor in it. It does. He looks
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 2: exactly like you.
• 1:01:31
  Speaker 1: So the character is, yeah, he's Cal Lightman and the
• 1:01:37
  Speaker 1: researcher is Paul Ekman. And he did decades of research on, Yeah,
• 1:01:42
  Speaker 1: being able to recognise facial expressions and their correlated emotions
• 1:01:47
  Speaker 1: or feelings.
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 2: Tiff, search up Tim Roth. It's Tim Roth. Yeah. Search
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 2: up Tim Roth and tell me whether or not you
• 1:01:54
  Speaker 2: reckon it looks like harps.
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 1: It does not look like. Everybody at home now is
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 1: fucking Googling Tim Roth. Tiff, tell me I'm better looking
• 1:02:03
  Speaker 1: than him.
• 1:02:04
  Speaker 2: Tim Roth.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 1: He's a wrangler.
• 1:02:07
  Speaker 3: Nothing on harps.
• 1:02:09
  Speaker 1: No. Thank you. Rest my case. Patrick, you can redeem
• 1:02:13
  Speaker 1: yourself with one more story.
• 1:02:14
  Speaker 2: Okay. The world's greenest party balloon. Because this worries me
• 1:02:22
  Speaker 2: as a person, right? Party balloons.
• 1:02:25
  Speaker 1: We know you're a person, so you don't have to
• 1:02:27
  Speaker 1: qualify that last bit. Yeah.
• 1:02:30
  Speaker 2: As a human, comma. Chemical engineers at the Imperial College
• 1:02:35
  Speaker 2: in London have developed what they're claiming is is the
• 1:02:38
  Speaker 2: world's first fully biodegradable party balloon. You know, when I
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 2: see people go out to parties and I see lots
• 1:02:45
  Speaker 2: of millions of balloons or hundreds of thousands of balloons,
• 1:02:47
  Speaker 2: you think, what the hell is going to end up
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: with those? You know, we hear about animals, turtles, animals,
• 1:02:53
  Speaker 2: sea animals being caught in them, choking on them and
• 1:02:56
  Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff. So I think this is exciting.
• 1:02:59
  Speaker 2: I think it's great. This is a good thing moving forward.
• 1:03:03
  Speaker 1: Well, the take-home message is don't have a party at
• 1:03:06
  Speaker 1: an aquarium. I think that's the... I think that's the
• 1:03:10
  Speaker 1: take home or don't invite your turtle to your 40th.
• 1:03:14
  Speaker 1: One of those two.
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 2: Can I just tell you, I went to the Melbourne
• 1:03:17
  Speaker 2: Aquarium and I donned a wetsuit and went for a
• 1:03:20
  Speaker 2: swimming experience with sharks and stingrays and all that sort
• 1:03:23
  Speaker 2: of stuff. So I'm swimming around and I come from
• 1:03:27
  Speaker 2: a small town. There's a population of 3,000 people. And
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 2: when you're swimming around, it's an amazing experience if you
• 1:03:33
  Speaker 2: get a chance to do it. And there's these kind
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 2: of walkways where you're swimming above people and they're walking
• 1:03:39
  Speaker 2: underneath you. And I see someone from the little town
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: that I'm in and I start waving to them thinking,
• 1:03:45
  Speaker 2: why aren't they waving back to me? There's no recognition
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: at all. But I'm donning a whole wetsuit. Of course,
• 1:03:52
  Speaker 2: they didn't know who the hell I was. And I'm
• 1:03:54
  Speaker 2: waving to them as... Yeah, anyway, that's just me.
• 1:03:58
  Speaker 1: So rude of them.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 2: I know.
• 1:03:59
  Speaker 1: Next time you bump into them down in bloody downtown
• 1:04:02
  Speaker 1: Belan at the newsagent, just pull out your snorkel and go,
• 1:04:06
  Speaker 1: do you recognize me now? And when I say pull
• 1:04:09
  Speaker 1: out your snorkel, I mean.
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: I've got a court order that tells me not to
• 1:04:13
  Speaker 2: do that in public.
• 1:04:14
  Speaker 1: Yeah, don't pull out your snorkel. Yeah, keep that tucked away.
• 1:04:18
  Speaker 1: It's been good, if not mildly inappropriate. Tiff, what are
• 1:04:22
  Speaker 1: you thinking about?
• 1:04:23
  Speaker 3: I was still just looking at Tim Rothen yourself and
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 3: I don't really think. I wouldn't have looked at that
• 1:04:30
  Speaker 3: and gone, oh, that looks a bit like Arps at all.
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 2: Really?
• 1:04:33
  Speaker 1: You're high, bro. Yeah. Now, Tiff, look up Fonzie. Look
• 1:04:40
  Speaker 1: up Fonzie in his heyday. Arthur, whatever his name, what's
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: his name, Henry Winkler, but in his heyday.
• 1:04:49
  Speaker 2: You've been told not to. Put your Winkler in public eye,
• 1:04:52
  Speaker 2: haven't you? There you go. What are you?
• 1:04:57
  Speaker 1: Tiff, any recognition?
• 1:04:59
  Speaker 2: Heaps.
• 1:05:01
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Everyone goes, you look like the Fonz. I'm like,
• 1:05:04
  Speaker 1: fucking hell.
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 2: He's about.
• 1:05:07
  Speaker 1: Anyway. Oh, now Patrick's. Now everyone's going to fucking the Fonz.
• 1:05:12
  Speaker 3: Do you need a leather jacket, bro? Yeah.
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 2: Oh, no. No, Tim Roth. Definitely Tim Roth. Not Henry Winkler.
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: All right. It's been good, Patrick.
• 1:05:23
  Speaker 2: Has it been good, really?
• 1:05:24
  Speaker 1: Has it, though? How can people find you?
• 1:05:27
  Speaker 2: You can go to websitesnow.com.au. And if you want to
• 1:05:31
  Speaker 2: ask us to talk about something, if you have queries
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: about door locks and stuff like that, just text me,
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 2: email me, whatever, and we'll have a chat about it
• 1:05:39
  Speaker 2: on the show.
• 1:05:40
  Speaker 1: Also, if you see a guy at the Melbourne Aquarium
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 1: waving at you.
• 1:05:44
  Speaker 2: It's probably Patrick. It is probably me, yeah.
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: Tiff, tell everybody about you, where they can connect with
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: you because you're important too.
• 1:05:53
  Speaker 3: Tiffcook.com and all of the social media places.
• 1:05:59
  Speaker 1: And if you want to see Tiff just sweating it
• 1:06:01
  Speaker 1: out and grinding and lifting heavy shit... Just go to
• 1:06:06
  Speaker 1: any platform.
• 1:06:07
  Speaker 2: Hey, Craig, if somebody wants to connect with you, how
• 1:06:10
  Speaker 2: do they do it?
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: Just go to Melissa. She'll tell you to fuck off.
• 1:06:18
  Speaker 1: I love people, though. I'm only kidding. I'm not like
• 1:06:22
  Speaker 1: that at all. You can always email me at Patrick.
• 1:06:27
  Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. All they've got to do to talk
• 1:06:33
  Speaker 1: to me is go to any one of my platforms
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: and drop a message or Patrick, Tiff, edit this bit out.
• 1:06:41
  Speaker 2: Oh, no, don't edit it out. See you, everyone. Thanks
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 2: for being here.
• 1:06:46
  Speaker 1: Are you winding up the show now? Fuck, I missed
• 1:06:48
  Speaker 1: that memo. Oh, Patrick's in charge.