Latest / I Hate Soccer with Jason Collinsworth / I Hate Soccer #124 - Erwin van Elst, we need more technical soccer players in the USA

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I Hate Soccer #124 - Erwin van Elst, we need more technical soccer players in the USA · I Hate Soccer with Jason Collinsworth

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: Erman Van Naust is a technical director at Midwest United.
• 0:04
  SPEAKER_01: This is the fifth episode of my club partnership with Midwest United.
• 0:09
  SPEAKER_01: We discussed technical development, how it's lacking, how it's lacking in the country, how it's lacking in the world, really.
• 0:18
  SPEAKER_01: And we discussed his his career coming up as a player and coach in Holland and then coming over to the United States and really hitting the Midwest and really being focused in Michigan and a little bit of Chicago and Indiana with the Muellenstein method.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_01: Him and Renee Muhlenstein go way back.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: And within player development, we discuss all the technical components that you need from all the different ages and stages about why we why we rush to get to the 9v9 game or to the 11v11 game and how that is um hurting development as a whole.
• 1:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it's all about what you can do on the ball.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: We just hit 5,000 subscribers last week, and I cannot thank you all enough.
• 1:14
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• 1:19
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• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Always trying to grow this so that I can continue to talk to people all around the country, just like Erwin.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: I hate soccer.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: How long do you you think that you need to work with a player to realize what they don't have?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_01: To realize what they don't have?
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: Could it be one session?
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: What they're missing, what they like, what they're missing, yeah, like what you were just saying.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_00: Young ages, yes.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: I would think, I mean, it it it's it's it can sound like very inarrogance, like what can you see in one practice and one training?
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_00: But when in in the training of young kids, it's it's really about do you control the ball, how comfortable are you with the ball?
• 2:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, what what do you see beyond the ball?
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: What what is your vision?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_00: What is it?
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_00: Is it uh is it a uh four by four square uh yards?
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_00: Is it gonna be ten?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Is it twelve?
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see lines?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see depth?
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: And some kids do.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: They they look and they they can see and pick different areas that are beyond most of them.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_00: These are telling the kids, right?
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_00: But in general, we we struggle with the ball.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_00: When we struggle with the ball, we look down.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: When we start looking down and we start dribbling and we don't know why, we get in trouble.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_00: When we get in trouble, we don't have the out because we're not prepared for it.
• 2:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's easy to see that you need to go down and back to ball control, ball comfort situations that help them to get through.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: How often do you think that that is missed or neglected uh in today's game with coaches that don't want to work on that stuff, they want to work on the tactics, the 11v11 tactics.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: So then they rush their teams to get to 11v11 as early as possible.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then what I came up luckily under some mentors that were more like you and Renee of it's all about what you can do with the ball because once you can do anything on the ball, you can do anything tactically, and we are have like a reverse uh model or uh uh philosophy that no, we're gonna teach soccer IQ and we're gonna teach them decision making, but they can't solve all of those decisions because they don't have the technique, they can't solve the problem.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 3:58
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's it's it's it's I mean it's a big problem, and um, it's a problem that's that has been there for I feel almost as long as I've been here because I remember coming in here when soccer was at a at a low level, you know, there were a couple of clubs.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um what year was that?
• 4:16
  SPEAKER_00: 1996, 1995, 1996, something like that.
• 4:21
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and um it was clear right away that we always try to push teams a level up in the next in the next system of formation.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_00: The 7v7, do you know the second year?
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_00: We want to skip the second year because we are too good.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_00: 7v7.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: We go for 9v9, and then you go 9v9 complexity increases dramatically.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: The the the you have formations now that become much more complex, and and you need to understand those, right?
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_00: You need to have also the ability technically, tactically, um, you need to understand it, and and they don't.
• 5:00
  SPEAKER_00: And we know, and I see it up till today.
• 5:04
  SPEAKER_00: It's very simple.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_00: When you are not able to pass three times with purpose to each other, are we playing soccer, playing kickball?
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So it you know, and three is just a very marginal number, that's not even a number that I would I would use for a team to go up, right?
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: And it needs to be much, much more.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_00: You know, they should be stringing you know, eight or ten passes together, and you can say, Okay, we're starting to have an understanding, an ability, a togetherness, a team understanding, and that's what you look for if you put teams up.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_00: I always say uh we do it wrong here because because everywhere else in the world we put a player up that's ready.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_00: You put a player up, yeah.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we have five players that are too good, so the whole team goes up.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't make sense.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we are we are literally not doing the service to eight or nine kids that are not ready for it.
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: The other five, maybe they are ready for it.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: I still argue they're not.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_00: There's still very many flaws, but we just so eager to play the 11v11 game or to always play the next level up a year before we have to, to prepare for the play when we have to.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's like that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: We we play at this level because it is the best for us to learn to get repetition, to get success, and then we move into when we have to, we go into the 9v9, and now we're gonna learn the 9v9.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_00: There's no sense in learning the 9v9 when we're not ready for it, and that's typically what happens, right?
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: And everything is rushed and is microwaved, and everybody they want instant, they want to see their ROI immediately, they don't give you a chance.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Let's say uh uh somebody outside the club wants to come and train with the Muellenstein method, and then they expect in one camp that you're gonna change my player.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it doesn't work like that.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is years, and development takes years, but we want that instant, I don't know, growth or uh yeah, ROI from parents.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's crazy, yeah.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: And and as a club, and again, you know, we I've been part of different clubs, and and anywhere else is the same now.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: Uh as a club, we we don't always agree with with what's happening, but but there is a certain um demand from from the outside, and a lot of times it's the parents that we we we have to kind of go that route because if our top three teams that we're competing against, that the U7s or U8s or U9s, whatever level it is, that they are all moving up in age group, or they're gonna go into you know from 7v7 to 9v9 uh as a second year 7v7 team, and the top three leave, then yes, we will not have adequate competition to literally compete at the right levels as well, which is also part of learning.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_00: So, so then it becomes like, well, if you guys don't do it, we we bring our kids to the other side because it's it's better for them, and it's like, well, yes, it's not better for them.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but in the end of the day, you you you you have to to go along uh for lack of better wording, but internally, and this is where I'm at with my technical director here.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: Uh is we cannot just settle then for that.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_00: We have to do the best training, we have to provide the training that's still ready for them, not get blindsided by we have 9v9 now and we need to teach 9v9 tactics.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_00: We are not, we are 7v17 playing 9v9.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_00: We still have to work with every player to create better decision making, better control, uh, better understanding at their level, not the level that we're competing at per se.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: And that's hard for coaches to understand because they want to go in this.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we have to do this now and that, in order for us to to survive in this older age group.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the better players have to play much more.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_00: We are easier and and and quicker to say this is your best position, because we can't rotate as much, particularly the players that are not ready.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: You can't rotate them, you have to put it inside where you almost hide him or say, Exactly, don't make mistakes, or at least we make you work on one section and and hopefully you understand it by the end.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_00: The best players you can rotate almost anywhere, exactly, they survive.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's not the best scenario for everybody, and that's unfortunately where we are at times.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_01: So you're the technical director, and not but uh when I look at you and I listen to you, you are a technical coach.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_01: That's like your focus.
• 9:51
  SPEAKER_01: When I look at other clubs that have technical directors, it's not even properly defined.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: It's just well, really, I'm a coaching director, or but they're not really looking at the technical focus.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: It how would you define technical director or what a technical director should do?
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: It's I mean technical directors we there are two two two definitions almost for it.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: One is a technical director that oversees the curriculum piece, which is important, which I do as well.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_00: But but it's more um connected with the platforms that you're within, uh the formations that we want to play.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a style that we want to create from from from young age all the way up to to the end phase, U19s?
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, it's recruitment, it's it's a lot of pieces that come with it.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_00: It's an open description here because it's the first time that we have a technical director.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm the first technical director that came here.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um Lewis, our our general manager, uh knows me for a long, long time.
• 10:58
  SPEAKER_00: And he knows what my strengths are, he knows what my passion is, he knows what I'm good at.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_00: And and I like to believe that that he wanted me at this position for those qualities, which means I'm focusing heavily on technical ability of players, uh, of making sure that our coaches understand when is the player ready for the next challenge, the ages and stages.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_00: This is something that many coaches do not understand.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_00: They do not understand when are we ready for more complex things?
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_00: When are we ready?
• 11:34
  SPEAKER_00: When is the player showing that it's ready for something that that that becomes more challenging, that becomes uh larger numbers, uh, different areas of the pitch.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and we we plow through, we've just mentioned that we want to to go quicker than what the players are, right?
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, this is more for me to make sure that we stay longer within the capabilities of the player rather than trying to force the player to follow where we want to go, it's a complete different thing.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_00: We all want to go to 11v11, and we want to play the real game, and we want to be the tactics, and we want to play the formations and the wing backs coming over and over.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't work, right?
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: 7v7 and and 9v9, we are not dealing with that, guys.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_01: By the time uh you just overlaps, right?
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: By the time the ball is here and you're and your overlap is right here, we've already lost the ball, and you gotta chase.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: It's like what are we doing?
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_01: Why are we working on so it's elaborate stuff when you guys we when we keep aren't strong enough to keep the ball, we're not good enough, we're not smart enough.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, everything thinks uh everything has to go forward, just protect the ball and and keep it.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_01: I know not everybody loves the word or the term or the phrase, keep it, but do you have technical standards in terms of not necessarily testing, but do you want uh kids to be proficient in all these things?
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because what how I'm starting to look at the game is that there's seven v there should be seven v7 technical standards.
• 13:17
  SPEAKER_01: There's 9v9 provides yes, new tactical challenges, but it's new technical challenges too.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: And then obviously the 11v11 game, everybody uh focuses on the tactical challenges, but they neglect the technical challenges of raising up to 11v11.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_01: So, do you have standards that you guys run all of your players through or anything that you personally do?
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so that no, it's a very good point.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, yes, that there's technical standards.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and the standards that that we're integrating more and more now, and then this is part of why I'm here, is guys, we have in our certain ages and stages, you know, in our age groups, and then the experience levels of of these players that we working with the 4-1v1 situations.
• 14:07
  SPEAKER_00: I know Renee talked about it in a previous podcast with you.
• 14:10
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, the 4-1v1, right?
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: The player in the front.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's a skill set that's attached to what are the moves to beat you and get behind you.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_00: There's a skill set that works with the player that's on the side, the up-down moves.
• 14:23
  SPEAKER_00: There's a skill set that comes with what happens when you're in the center midfield and and you're dragging the ball to the right side, and there's a player coming on an angle, as we call it, and you simply have to change the point of attack.
• 14:35
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of moves do we have?
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then the last skill set is when the player's in the back, how can we try to you know shake him off, uh, roam foot him, to see if that we go to the left and go to the right.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_00: And so every one of those situations has skill sets, and in the skill sets there's five or six moves.
• 14:53
  SPEAKER_00: Those moves have to be have to be uh taught in our youth academy program.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's our program between five and you six and you eight.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we're doing right there.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: U6 and you eight.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_00: We want to teach these kids to introduce them to those moves.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh if we do it right, I can go on the field, and I know the first three weeks we work on up-down moves.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_00: So I can go on the field and I'll say guys to little Johnny.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: Johnny, can you show me after three weeks?
• 15:24
  SPEAKER_00: Can you do an up-down move?
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And he will not say what do you mean, up-down move, because he will know, because we have explained that.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then he will be able to show it up down.
• 15:33
  SPEAKER_00: Can you do an outside hook?
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, coach.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: I can do an outside hook.
• 15:36
  SPEAKER_00: Can you do an inside hook?
• 15:37
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, I can.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_00: Now, this is him doing it without any context within the game.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_00: This is just him knowing a move, right?
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_00: And what it will do, it will just bring me back.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_00: Ultimately, in the 7v7, we will repeat a lot of these exercises, but now we're starting to put it in combination with passing and receiving.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_00: So we do have passing, receiving, first touch, and then you have your turns.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: We do it with uh passive defenders coming in, you know.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_00: So now we're learning the timing part.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: This is when we do it, yeah.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then you learn is it the left foot or the right foot?
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_00: Because we need to turn away from the player, not into the player.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_00: So these are the tactical implications.
• 16:16
  SPEAKER_00: So this is tactics individual, and when they can do that right, and they have it more right than wrong, we can see that we are receiving or creating players with an IQ.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's the first sign.
• 16:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's an IQ behind it.
• 16:31
  SPEAKER_00: This player knows the turn when and where.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic, it's a good step for us.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_00: If we can get it with all players in 7v7, in those two years, they know the turns, they can apply them, and most of the time they can apply them the right way.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean we always get away with it the way we want, but we know here in their brain, everything is starting to click.
• 16:56
  SPEAKER_00: The feet might still need more, but it's clicking, and then you go into the 9v9s, and then again, we've rebuilding this now.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: It's passing comes more important, you know.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Um, recognizing do we have to get a 1v1 or can we actually avoid a 1v1 and can we play out of the back?
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want 1v1s, right?
• 17:16
  SPEAKER_00: So now we start thinking okay, we're in the build-up phase 9v9s.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's where we can expect us to start having good decisions, but it is good decisions because we've taught them to stay calm.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_00: We don't we know that they have control over the ball.
• 17:33
  SPEAKER_00: Control over the ball remain it tells me that you're calm, that you are able in your head to make better decisions because calmness allows us to breathe, allows us to see that the panic button is not hit, so then we see better results, you know, better end products.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: And and if that's true, then we've done a good job in those fundamental phases.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_00: Now we're setting them up for success, and none of this has to do with me saying that I want to win games, I want you to be better.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_00: And if you're better, and we have nine players better in 9v9, we know we're gonna be very good, right?
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's a whole different idea than coaching 7v7 to to show your muscle and say, you know what, I can win a game.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really care if we win a game.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: Of course, we want to win games, of course, we don't win games, we're gonna lose games.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: Fine.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_00: 500 is a beautiful thing at that age.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: 500 is learning how to lose is beautiful.
• 18:33
  SPEAKER_00: Teams that only win become very, very, very uh teams that have an entitlement and fragile because as soon as they do lose, they don't know how to handle it.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: How so I think with older players, let's say 11v11 players, 1v1 for me isn't always about penetrating the player, it's about moving the player to set up a pass or set up something else.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_01: When does that come along with you guys?
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_01: Like when do you guys just start about just manipulating the defender, move the defender?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's one of the hardest things to do.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: As soon as you start playing 2v1, 2v1.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that could be at the youngest of ages because we start into for for the player on the ball, does it make sense?
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: If we play 2v1, you know, and the defender, this is often what happens, the defender plays into the forward or into a midfielder, whatever it is, right?
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: The defenders next to the goal, goalkeepers in the nets.
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we have a 2v1 situation, defender plays the ball in, we have two attackers, ball comes in, there's oceans of space in the beginning, and you will see that the first player here makes a pass right away to the next player next to him.
• 19:48
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, doesn't move to defender, doesn't do anything.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's so easy for the defender to just react to that pass.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: So it's all about the timing of the pass.
• 19:56
  SPEAKER_01: Engage that defender and then pass.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, horse wine.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: When I attended uh a course from Horse Wine, he was big into that.
• 20:06
  SPEAKER_01: It's all about uh engaging the defender, then pass, and then and then that player become it's so much easier to get a player in versus pass early just to accumulate passes.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: How often?
• 20:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because of the pep guardiola effect.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, hey, we just had 20 passes, yeah, but you didn't move a single defender and you didn't manipulate and it didn't go side to side and whatnot.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_01: Horse wine, in one of his books, and what and he was teaching this course, he says that the atom of soccer is the 2v1, not the one v1.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think of that?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it's it's it's it's it's certainly, I mean, it's it's it's it's a statement that there's a lot of truth in it, but you need to understand again what is behind the statement, right?
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_00: We can all come up and look very smart.
• 20:57
  SPEAKER_00: He understands no, he understands what he wants out of it, and and and where he puts it into the game, and and that's it means that's his philosophy as well.
• 21:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's part of who he is and what he does, but it has a different philosophy.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_00: Renee has his philosophy, right?
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um but 2v1 is all about its decision making at the at the lowest level with a partner, and if we can start making those decisions right, more right than than wrong, then we can start moving into the next level, and which is then the 2v2 and the 3v2.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_00: But how many coaches are are going already past that point all the time?
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_00: And guys, and I can go back and I said, Guys, why are you playing these these complex games and you see no result and you get frustrated?
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: And the players see that you're frustrated, they get fearful, and frustrated and fearful doesn't produce better players.
• 21:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, my facility was about the size of one of those fields.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: There and I would get teams in, and we would play 3v3, 4v4.
• 22:04
  SPEAKER_01: They can handle 3v3 and 4v4.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: Why are you guys playing 9v9?
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_01: You guys can't you guys can't handle 4v4 or have the proper uh shape and spacing and uh whatnot.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's like we are there's so there's so many layers to this, and again, we want to rush, we want to play in the highest leagues, we want to go to the highest tournaments, we want to be in the top brackets, and it's wild to me when they can't properly solve a 2v1.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and then and then I think we're gonna we're gonna go.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it is over there.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_00: I think we also have to to talk about about coaching, right?
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_00: As in in the quality of coaching, the experience that coaches need to have.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_00: Um we all know now, particularly in this era, I feel, our our top coaches, our most experienced coaches are roaming in the top levels.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_00: That's typically always the case, right?
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you know, you talk about the MLS next now, and you talk about ECNLs and the GAs.
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_00: So so our top A license, B licensed coaches have always two teams there, and then we try to get them into a lower level team because yes, they have they have more uh understanding and and they should be able to to help uh a talented team, a talented player, let's say at U10, DA for us directors academy, and uh that's typically where we at, but now we have a large group.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: We you know, years ago when I was entering USA, you know, U10 was kind of where soccer started.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, U10 U9.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_00: And and literally we all sat as a director of coaching of a club at uh at the tryouts at the U9 level.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_00: We all sat there and and and you know, we were praying that we get players because we didn't have anybody anything underneath us.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: We had nothing, so we were hoping that people would find us, right?
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_00: Uh now we all see big shift.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, we have youth programs, rec programs connected with with bigger clubs, we have academy programs.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, we have one, but many others have them.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_00: U6, you eight.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and that's where coaching happens, that's where we need to see that foundation.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_00: But what kind of coaches do we get?
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: And and I'm saying it with with all all the the respect to to the coaches and and the situations that we're in.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_00: But we obviously uh there's a shortage of coaches across America right now, uh, just coaches.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: More people need to realize this, yeah.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_00: But there's there's a shortage, and and there is a tendency that parent coaching that conversation has been that was maybe in 2010 to 2015, 16, where parent coaches was like, Okay, it's allowed if you were a good player, if you you know you played college and now we can have you.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: But that's almost no longer true, neither.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody wants to have the professional coach, they would demand the licensing, and yeah, what level have you been?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Who have you coached?
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and and we don't have enough of those coaches, so we will have coaches, and we do have coaches, and every club has coaches that are coming, they either still in college, they're still playing, and they have a likeness to soccer, and they they like working with kids.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's a good good foundation, right?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_00: And it's a good start.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_00: But we are throwing them into this high performance culture, even at our U7, U8, U9, the expectations of parents are are are pretty good, you know, and then they most likely much more than the reality can handle.
• 25:48
  SPEAKER_00: But a young coach feels pressure the moment it steps on the field, and it doesn't have the backdrop that we have, as in coaches that have been around the block.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 26:00
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, many of us have children, right?
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_00: We know how how how you know how how tender they are at times.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_00: We also know how tough they can be.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_00: We also know um that it takes time to learn things.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_00: We also know they will fail, and how they handle failing is much in how we handle their failing.
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Are we highlighting that they failed?
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Are we saying, you know what, it's part of life, let's get back in the saddle.
• 26:26
  SPEAKER_00: You know, if you need some help, we are here.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_00: Are we helping?
• 26:30
  SPEAKER_00: We showing, we modeling.
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, none of that is known for them yet.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_00: They just know that I think I know soccer, 11 V Land of soccer, that's all they remember.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, and that's what they do, so they go back to what they know that's their safety cushion, and it's not what the kids need.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we immediately we are we are in in conflict.
• 26:49
  SPEAKER_00: The player and the coach is in conflicts, right?
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_00: They don't know it, they don't recognize it from each other, but the parent stands on the outside and sees the conflicts, and it's very quick to just immediately attack the coach to you're not doing it right.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_00: And the coach is like, Well, you know what, I'm do my best, right?
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And my the best is not right enough, and so we have to, as coaches, this is my my role as director, a technical director again.
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I focus on because I want these young coaches slash players, I want them to stay in the game because we need them, we're gonna need them long term, we're gonna need these guys to become coaches, and uh they need to also learn, and we need to provide them guidance and mentorship.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: So, a lot of your role is developing the coaches, yes, because if you develop the coaches properly, they will coach so many more players, and you all have the capacity of coaching, and then it just spreads, and your methodology and your just philosophy grows and grows and grows, right?
• 28:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like there's a lot of clubs that don't have a full-time coaching developer, you know.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: There's directors of coaching, but they also have three teams, or they're dealing mostly with parents, where you in your role, you get to just deal with the set the standard for for the players technically, and then the coaches and develop the coaches and talk to the coaches and see like I like that.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_01: How would you change that?
• 28:31
  SPEAKER_01: How would okay if you had one more player?
• 28:33
  SPEAKER_01: How would you change that and and and be that person for this club?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: How long have you been at Midwest?
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I've got this is my second year, so coming in the second year.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_00: So I just finished my full year here last year.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and then that was, you know, honestly, it's a learning curve too, uh, for for all.
• 28:51
  SPEAKER_00: It's a new position.
• 28:52
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I've never been in a position where I didn't have to coach.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_00: So I've been director of coaching for 25 years, but I've also, you know, in order to get your full salary and everything else, you had to coach teams.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_00: And right immediately, and every director of coaching though will recognize that immediately it's it's like it's overwhelming because you can never do what you need to do.
• 29:13
  SPEAKER_00: It's impossible.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's impossible to to to be with the coach that people talk about that he struggles, and for you to say, you know what, I'm gonna I'm gonna stake my time with this coach, we're gonna figure out why and and how we can set up a plan to make this coach better, or or to just even say to the parents, I've seen this coach, he's doing the right thing, and and you have to do that with confidence because we we are representing the player, the parent, the coach, so it it has to be right.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to just say he's a good coach, and then I actually find out who that there's some real issues here because I didn't have the time, yet I still want to give an answer.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_00: That's a dangerous thing, right?
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: So, not having teams last year for the first time uh provided obviously time, it provided me to to to to first see the infrastructure, to see coaches at work, to just see what Midwest United was about, you know, from the inside.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_00: Now, I always fought them from the outside.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_00: We competed with each other, right?
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_00: But there's something completely different once you're part of it and you see what actually happens every day.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_00: And um for me it was eye-opening because it was it was much more positive than I I expected it to be, which is good, you know, it's very good because when when you when you go against each other, it's very easy sometimes to just listen to some negative comments from people that are at the club and think, okay, that's the whole thing.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_00: It's not correct, it's not.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um so there's some great things that we have here.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_00: We have a great coaching staff, we have a very uh, you know, we have facilities.
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_00: You've been here, you know.
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we we we we have our own way of running these facilities.
• 30:59
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have to adhere to others coming in, we don't have to ask the question, can we we we create it?
• 31:06
  SPEAKER_00: And and and again, Lewis and everybody before has done a fantastic job in getting us to this level, and and for me now to come in, um it's it's something that's unique and it's a responsibility, but it's it's an opportunity, right?
• 31:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's an opportunity for me, but it's an opportunity for coaches.
• 31:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's a mentor now that the mentorship that can happen, um, and and we can help the coach and the player.
• 31:33
  SPEAKER_00: What brought you to the United States in '96?
• 31:37
  SPEAKER_00: We playing still adventure first.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh adventure, honestly.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_00: I I was, and I'm I still have many of those traits.
• 31:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm an impulsive, uh, I love life.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I'm I'm uh you know, I love life.
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_00: Life is short, and uh, let's make the most of every day.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, that's number one, right?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_00: Make the most of every day.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do good.
• 31:59
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's that's the main theme.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_00: Try to do good.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_00: It doesn't mean we always do or it's perceived that way.
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_00: But I came, um, I was part of the CEOs, the sports school.
• 32:09
  SPEAKER_00: Actually, Renee went there too at a different time than me, but it's a it's a unique school that's foreign in the Netherlands.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, it prepares you for coaching, it prepares you for coaching of all levels and all sports, not just soccer.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I had Tom the Hope, he was a uh K and V instructor.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, and uh and Ton was was our you know was our instructor, our our teacher, um, our mentor when we were going for our coaching courses.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so we got I got uh my UA for B license and I was 19 years old, you know.
• 32:44
  SPEAKER_00: 19 years old years old.
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_00: We're still playing.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh at that time I went uh uh just went into Helmand Sports, which was the first division, so that's that's our second division, it's called first division within Holland.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: The Ede Divisie is the first is the highest level, that's our top level, and then the erste divisie, which is the first division, is actually our second tier.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_00: So I played in the second tier at Helmut Sport.
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but for three years prior, when I was in the sports school, we went in the summer to America, and and the camps were winning mood, that was the name.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: Winning moods, and and so we traveled all across uh America for three three summers, made connections.
• 33:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we did, right?
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_00: I did made connections, and then the last year.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_01: So you were like 17, 16, 17, going to those schools, yeah.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_00: And you would okay, cute, and then when we were coaching, yeah, we were coaching here as 18-year-olds, uh, and we we we all were players, we were motivated, and we were we were gearing to be coaches, and and ton de hope was very smart because he was coaching our you know, the students, and he said, Man, these are some good, good players, they want to be coaches in America.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_00: There's there's opportunity, and so he created winning mood and he had plenty of coaches to choose from.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_00: And and who didn't want that 17 and 18 year old to go six weeks to America, right?
• 34:16
  SPEAKER_00: I did, right?
• 34:17
  SPEAKER_00: First flight ever, first time America.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_00: It was just beautiful, it was fantastic.
• 34:23
  SPEAKER_00: And um, so but going back to why did I stay here when the last year, the third year, when everybody went back home, I was out of Hellman Sport, and um I just said, you know what?
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_00: Buy a motorcycle and tour.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I did.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: I bought a motorcycle every state in Chicago, that was kind of my hub, and from there I went all over the place.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_00: Came back with the idea, like three months, came back because visa issues at that moment, so I had to go and said, you know what, I'm just gonna sell my bike again.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_00: So I had three months of you know, almost for free, sell the bike for roughly similar money, and then go home.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I met the doctor and he bought my bike so I could fly home for for the for the money.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_00: And um then I came back because I loved it, and I got an opportunity to play at Trinity Christian College, very small college, it's actually closed this year, 2026 was the last graduation year.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's in Chicago and uh in Suburb.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: And uh there were some people that I I met when I was on my trip, and uh there were three three f families, wealthy families that our kids were playing on the team, and they they they basically funded me to to go to school for two years, which I did.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: And so I played for two years, I coached, and uh that's how I came here.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: Then I met my now ex-wife who went uh to Grand Rapids, and then the rest is history in a way, right?
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_00: So here I am.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_00: Um what year did you come to Grand Rapids?
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_00: 19 yeah, again 1996, 7, something like that.
• 36:13
  SPEAKER_00: So same year, kind of.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: So okay.
• 36:18
  SPEAKER_01: Where or uh go into what your roles were and where you were before Midwest.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Started really, so I came to Grand Rapids.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um Georgetown Rangers was the club.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_00: Georgetown Rangers, which then became Rangers, and now I mean a fire, sorry, and then became Rangers.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so Georgetown Rangers provided me the first um full-time uh director of coaching job.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: There were I to be honest, I don't think we had any.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think there was any, so I got the opportunity to do that, most likely six, seven years that I was there.
• 36:58
  SPEAKER_00: Then um I had a short period where I started crew west, so the crew, which now and I was like Rempo, or is this before Rampo?
• 37:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, no, Remco was here, okay.
• 37:13
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and Josh Sheldon was the general manager.
• 37:16
  SPEAKER_00: Uh but things there in Georgetown went a different direction.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I went out, then I I firmly believed in what I did was the right thing.
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_00: So I had a following, and yes, there's there's there's players that came from from Georgetown Rangers, there are players that are coming in from different areas, and I was basically setting the club up where I lived, and I was kind of in Grandville.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um, that that's where I Wyoming Grandville is where I lived, and that's where I planted Crew West, and uh we did that for two years, and then I started also a Millenstein Method company with Renee, because that's kind of in that in that same time, 2008-2009.
• 38:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um, well, it's it's most likely good to say, Jason.
• 38:05
  SPEAKER_00: I went out of soccer actually for two years as well.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_00: I coached my kids, but I didn't do anything else, it was not my full-time job at all.
• 38:12
  SPEAKER_00: I hardly made a salary.
• 38:14
  SPEAKER_00: I went out because that was the time when clubs started to picker with each other, and it became a very, very unfriendly environment.
• 38:22
  SPEAKER_00: And there were the first parents that were were hopping clubs because of no longer good enough, and they were recruited and they went to other clubs, new platforms, yeah.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: So that was just the start, yeah.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: And um, I I just didn't do well with that.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's I'm a purist, I still am.
• 38:40
  SPEAKER_00: I'm a purist.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: I I look at every kid, and I want to make sure that technicality and their decision making, and that that we treat them well, we treat them well, right?
• 38:50
  SPEAKER_00: Part of that is coach the right way, and coach what matters, right?
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_00: Those are the things that I that's my philosophy, that's where I go by every day, and and and it's it's passion that we breathe and and they will see it and they'll bring it over.
• 39:08
  SPEAKER_00: That's what I still do, and I never get tired of that, period.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um but then I went to so I started Millenstein, and we started to do coach clinics all over the place.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_00: Indiana became a Milan State Method state, so to speak.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I was every weekend in the for eight weeks.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Every weekend we had courses in Indiana.
• 39:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it also took notice here on Score Soccer Club of Rockford.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 39:38
  SPEAKER_00: So I uh I started there to they became a member club of Millensday Method, and as part of that, we gave them two coach sessions, clinics, so to speak, uh curriculum, and then they said, Well, we want more, we kind of want you to do this all the time.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_00: We want our coaches to be not just two times having the moment, we want them all the time to have this moment.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: So that's where I became director of coaching at at our our score club.
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, they agreed to change the name from score to score Millenstein, which which was great on my end because that that's what I wanted.
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted the club where I could actually show that this program works, right?
• 40:22
  SPEAKER_00: The Mellenstein method, what we believe in.
• 40:24
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Renee's, it's it's it's Renee's program.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: I'm 100% in.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh and that's what we did.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_00: And and to be honest, I'm gonna be very honest about this.
• 40:35
  SPEAKER_00: It worked.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: We had clubs coming in from outside after two, three years.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_00: I said, What happens with this club score?
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_00: These players play completely different than they did before.
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_00: I love how technical they are, I love, I love the vibe that they have, I love how creative everybody is.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_01: Confidence, yeah.
• 40:52
  SPEAKER_00: And so it worked, right?
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's a beautiful thing.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but like everything, uh, you can only go so long and so far in in all this.
• 41:01
  SPEAKER_00: And um, in well, when when I announced my private life comes out, then I got through divorce, and it was covert, came in, and and all the partner clubs.
• 41:12
  SPEAKER_00: We have 13 partner clubs, all the partner clubs at that moment.
• 41:16
  SPEAKER_00: We said, you know what, stop.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_00: There's no obligation anymore.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_00: It's covert financially.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_00: You have to take care of your coaches, you have to take care of so much refunds, whatever you'll have to do.
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: So we gave everybody just let's stop, let's see how long this lasts, and then you know, we can jump back.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the the problem of what you'd never foresee is what is the effect of a covert.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody knew at the time, right?
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_00: We were in uh unfamiliar territory, and when you go back 2021, and there was still a lot of apprehension, and there was still you know a lot of issues, a lot of rules, yeah, anxiety.
• 41:53
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I think the parents had anxiety, players had anxiety, and and and clubs were recovering uh from what happened.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_00: So uh it wasn't as easy to get back to the clubs, and and and and I understood that.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so that that that was one thing, so we lost a lot of business, so to speak, and and that was just the way it was, and that was okay.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_00: And then on my my own, I went through through a divorce, and then ultimately I met uh the uh the person, the significant other that I'm still with now.
• 42:25
  SPEAKER_00: So we are five and a half years in, but she lived in Rochester Hills.
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_00: So after a year and a half relationship long distance, it was like okay, I went to Michigan Stars um and and Rochester Soccer Club, RSC.
• 42:39
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you know, and I first came in there just to coach, and uh from there I went into director of coaching at Michigan Stars.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: Goran was there.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_00: Goran, you know, we had his things going on in his life, so he he stepped down.
• 42:56
  SPEAKER_00: I became there, then I shortly became the director of coaching at RSC.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_00: So I had two director of coaching jobs and three teams, and and ultimately that whole package was great.
• 43:07
  SPEAKER_00: I loved it, but it was just it's just too much, right?
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_00: You crave yourself, and uh, and and with that, I'm in an area where I've never been, and uh, I like it.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_00: Nothing wrong with the east side, but guys, west side, come on.
• 43:20
  SPEAKER_00: I know.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_00: So I like my bicycling, I like my motorcycling, and over there, I'm almost like it would be dead by now, right?
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_00: You can't do things like that on the street.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, so I'm I'm back here, and that's where I came here.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that's and then just Lewis just like how how long did Lewis try to get you to come over here?
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, it's funny before you finally said, Okay.
• 43:43
  SPEAKER_00: It was first Josh Sheldon always.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 43:45
  SPEAKER_00: It was, and and Lewis picks up right where where Josh left when Lewis got the position.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_00: It was always, hey guys, you know, February, March.
• 43:55
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, what are you doing?
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, that was just my annual call.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_00: How are you doing?
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_00: And just want to see if you want to, you know, you want to come over.
• 44:03
  SPEAKER_00: And then, you know, obviously, many, many, many, many times I said, sorry guys, I'm I'm good where I'm at.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm happy.
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm I'm doing things that I enjoy.
• 44:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think I make a difference.
• 44:13
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, see you next year.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_00: And uh so that happens all the time, and um up till two years ago, where I was at MFA for a year, my first year when I moved back.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, I was at the North Shore from MFA, and quite honestly, I enjoyed it tremendously.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_00: It was a transition year, uh, just to get to you know, kind of kind of used to a new new era, new area to live in, a new house, a new place.
• 44:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, I I dragged my uh my girlfriend with uh out of a familiar area for her, but not familiar here.
• 44:49
  SPEAKER_00: So I didn't want to be gone all the time, right?
• 44:51
  SPEAKER_00: I would that would not be right.
• 44:53
  SPEAKER_00: So I found a way to to coach, but no big platforms, just local 20 minutes away from me.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_00: Two teams, helped them out.
• 45:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and and and they were good people too, you know.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_00: We compare competitors, Midwest and MFA, but on my end, uh I never left because of of negatives, right?
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_00: I I just this was a position that I couldn't refuse.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_00: It was a great uh opportunity for me to to do something different, more to what I want to do at my age and with my experience.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that that's where that was.
• 45:28
  SPEAKER_01: When you guys were working with the clubs, go into like the curriculum that you would provide them, or was it really just through the courses or through those, you know, those clinics, and then they just took the ball and and the coaches go, or was it your like actual week-to-week curriculum that uh they used?
• 45:54
  SPEAKER_00: So we we created it at Melissa Math like years ago.
• 45:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh I created uh five books, so to speak.
• 46:02
  SPEAKER_00: So they are there is 2448 training sessions.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, U7, U8.
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_00: So the ages and stages, U7, U8 fit very well, U9, U10, 77, U11, U12, 9v9, and then U13, U14, because that's a whole different ball of wax from U15, U19.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_00: So those those five stages uh we create created all training sessions for.
• 46:31
  SPEAKER_00: So you had a 12-week program, and you had uh training one and training two.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_00: So that was 24, and then you had another 12-week because that type typically was well, it was what it was fall, 12 weeks, spring, yeah, 12-week-ish, you know.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_00: And so we created complete training sessions, and we understand that I understand nobody follows them exact, but but these were all sessions that were created within the Melanesty method uh vocabulary, um from an organization, from from from how we approach learning from the the technical aspect, right?
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_00: Right, the technique into skill, as we talk about, technique into skill into strategy.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's the our that's our our our line.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_00: Technique into skill into strategy.
• 47:23
  SPEAKER_00: Young kids need to know the technical, uh what we just talked about, you six, you seven, you eight, you're nine.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_00: Right you should know all the turns, all the skill sets that come with a 1v1, and the fundamentals, passing, receiving, right?
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_00: Right, dribbling, shooting, those are always there, these are constant.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_00: Every coach does that.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_00: Well, we add those four 1v1 situations and skill sets because we believe that's where we can make the difference, that's where players make the difference, and we need to do that right away when they touch the ball.
• 47:58
  SPEAKER_01: And then how would you kind of rate it?
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_01: Would you rate the clubs of how well they I guess would you uh go in week one, week two, and see, and then you go back in maybe the spring, and you're like, hey, you guys have really been following our curriculum, and then you have a club over there like you guys haven't been doing our curriculum at all.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_01: Was it like that?
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_00: We we we didn't have uh at that time we we just started and you know, and and then I was there first by myself, then I got a a business partner with me.
• 48:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, he did fantastic work on on setting up the contracts and and then just putting more um structure you know to everything because I'm the on-field guy.
• 48:52
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I love to do, you know.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 48:54
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm on the field, I'm doing all the moves, the turns, I'm writing the curriculum, and so that's what I did.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_00: And he had more the business element of it.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and together that was a very good combination.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but what we didn't have at that moment, we were selling and we were growing the business.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: Uh they were happy with what we offered, number one, they were happy, but we also knew to some degree that that there is more to it than than uh than just giving a book and and and having a coach education at one time, right?
• 49:24
  SPEAKER_00: But we weren't at the stage where we could really do, let's say, the testing, the video recording wasn't even there in the beginning.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: We we have gotten so far to so little, right?
• 49:33
  SPEAKER_00: The huddles and the videos right now are everywhere, but at that time they weren't.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_00: You you're talking, you don't have to go back too far.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_00: 10 years, 12 years.
• 49:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:42
  SPEAKER_00: So we go 15 years ago, it wasn't there, and and um, so we didn't have those tools in a way to to kind of see what was happening, right?
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_00: But we just listened to the clubs, what they wanted, and we tried to help them out, and you know, obviously the Zoom just kicked in, so we could do some of that, but even that was not that you know common, right?
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_00: Uh 2010, 11, 12, 13.
• 50:06
  SPEAKER_00: Not not for the common club, didn't have all the tools for us neither.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um so then there were things that were very good, well received.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I think we helped a lot of clubs.
• 50:19
  SPEAKER_00: I think right now the landscape has not changed much.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that that we've we are a lot further now than we were before.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: I think we are a lot further in our competitive mindset and pushing teams on quicker than ever before into platforms that they're not ready for.
• 50:39
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and therefore it becomes even more obvious that we are not having the foundation right, and and that is that is where I I roam.
• 50:51
  SPEAKER_00: And I know that not everybody's gonna agree with me, and that's fine, but I can see it, and I can do a training session and make them believe that or believe, make them see that they don't have the tools.
• 51:03
  SPEAKER_01: How much of that is player-led?
• 51:05
  SPEAKER_01: How much do you think that the coach needs to give the players the ideas to work on to work on things at home?
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like Tom Byer always says soccer starts at home.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_01: How within the curriculums that you would give the clubs and what you're doing now, how much of it is like, hey, you need to go home and work on these things to uh an 11-year-old, to maybe a 16-year-old.
• 51:36
  SPEAKER_01: Hey, how much of it is that little push of hey, you can't just rely on three training sessions if you want to be a world-class player, obviously.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh Jason, that this is a piece that that I it's always uncomfortable for me to hear this.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, and I'll explain why.
• 51:59
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I was raised in a completely different culture, right?
• 52:03
  SPEAKER_00: In the Netherlands.
• 52:04
  SPEAKER_00: That's where I grew up.
• 52:06
  SPEAKER_00: That's my whole playing career, my true playing career has been in the Netherlands.
• 52:10
  SPEAKER_00: My my joy, my my my my being as a player is all touch experiences, right?
• 52:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and we we practice twice a week.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_00: We played every day, we played every day, right?
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_00: My friends and and and myself, we were out there every day.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, and we know what it is here because we have basketball that that that inner city basketball I always relate to when I came.
• 52:33
  SPEAKER_00: That was that big inner city Chicago, and and there was this inner city basketball out there, and and that's what that is most likely the closest we can we can come to street and unorganized uh play, right?
• 52:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, soccer was not like that.
• 52:48
  SPEAKER_00: We don't have the fields, the infrastructure, and soccer was an upcoming sport, it's right, and the culture, we just we're not born into it, yeah.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's not in the genes, so to speak, exactly.
• 52:58
  SPEAKER_00: So that is for me the biggest issue, and and the second one is is this notion that we believe that everybody can reach a certain level.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's not, guys.
• 53:12
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not gonna tell you that you can play college if you don't have genes to get there, if if if you don't have certain abilities, Rene is a perfect example for me, you know.
• 53:23
  SPEAKER_00: Renee was a perfect example because Renee had all the tools, he checked all the boxes of a professional player of the qualities, except for speed.
• 53:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and when I'm saying speed, uh he just lacked what the minimum requirements are.
• 53:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_00: He just didn't have that gear, and and he knew it, believe me, he he will he will admit it.
• 53:44
  SPEAKER_00: But he had all the things, he was a smart player, he had the skill, unbelievable, he he had an intellect, he has everything that he's teaching right now, right?
• 53:52
  SPEAKER_00: He knows why he's teaching this.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely, because he knows the benefit, because he is that player, right?
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_00: He is that player, and if you've seen his puzzle pieces, there is this physical piece to it, and he had all the we talk about colors in puzzle pieces, yeah.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_00: We have different colors, and and the brighter the color, the more of that you have, right?
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's how we talk when we talk to each other.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: I like that.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_00: And and Renee just didn't have red, is the mental physical piece, and the physical piece was just not bright red for him, it was flat, you know, and then you have the green is the technique, boom, yeah, off the chart.
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: Brightest green sunglasses on Renee's coming in, and then we have, you know, then the yellow was the tactical.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh-huh.
• 54:36
  SPEAKER_00: What should decision making look like?
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: And Renee was a good decision maker.
• 54:40
  SPEAKER_00: I played against him, you know, good decision maker, very smart, very smart guy, knows exactly what he wants out of the ball, the movement, everything.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_00: And then ultimately the mental part, too.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_00: And Renee was mentally very strong as well.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, but did he do everything he could to maybe make the red better?
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe not, but fit you know, he could go in the in and workout more, perhaps.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but that was something that wasn't there at that time neither.
• 55:07
  SPEAKER_00: We we just didn't go really too.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: Everything was about the ball when you guys were growing up.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_01: When you said pull you would play every single day, yeah.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_01: That's not always with somebody else, right?
• 55:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's sometimes it was just you and a ball.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_00: That's where we juggle, that's where we find uh a wall and hit the ball.
• 55:24
  SPEAKER_00: I have two brothers, so a lot of it was with others.
• 55:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, but I remember vividly we we didn't always compete, but there was many times that we spent half an hour till till 45 minutes, where it was just 10 yards, 20 yards, 30 yards out, and and the goal was just and it's windy in Holland.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_00: We have wind all over the place, so we we learn how to play with the wind, bend the ball, yeah.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: And the game was very simple.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_00: If I play the ball to you and you have to make more than two steps to get to the ball, I fail my my my my my pass.
• 55:56
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, so we have these things going on.
• 55:58
  SPEAKER_00: So, how many passes can I get?
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we didn't play pick, we didn't understand, we didn't have PIG, right?
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't play that, but we knew that's a shitty pass, right?
• 56:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh oh, and that one is beautiful.
• 56:11
  SPEAKER_00: And we played it for 45 minutes.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: That's how we learn how to pass.
• 56:14
  SPEAKER_01: Throughout my like training company, I was was obsessed with how the ball spins.
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_01: How many spins can you put on the ball with your right and your left foot in different surfaces?
• 56:26
  SPEAKER_01: Can you go can you go right to left?
• 56:28
  SPEAKER_01: Can you go left to right?
• 56:29
  SPEAKER_01: Backspin, no spin.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: Can you do all those things?
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, now do it with your weak foot.
• 56:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that to me is also a technical piece that is that is missing a bit.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm watching college soccer, and I'm watching a player trying to ping a ball, and it has this spin and it's spinning out of bounds.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, no, that needs to be that needs to have top spin or that or back spin.
• 56:55
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like just those little things that can be broken down into technique, and that is through so many repetitions, and we just aren't getting that those, we're not getting those repetitions because sadly, you either train the two or three times a week and then don't touch a ball outside, or you're going to a technical trainer to be able to get those reps.
• 57:23
  SPEAKER_01: Because in a team environment, we're just not getting those reps.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_01: How are you how do you make sure back in those curriculum days where you had the all the clubs, but also what you're doing here at Midwest, how are you making sure that these coaches are getting these kids the reps that they need?
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_00: Proper training.
• 57:41
  SPEAKER_00: Uh ultimately, we know what we have.
• 57:43
  SPEAKER_00: We have the three training sessions.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: That is what we have, yeah.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and so we need to maximize those 100%.
• 57:51
  SPEAKER_00: From the first second till the last second, it has to have purpose, it has to have a certain intensity.
• 57:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it has to have repetition.
• 57:59
  SPEAKER_00: Young age, particularly, it has to have repetition, it has to have the success that comes with it so they come back.
• 58:05
  SPEAKER_00: Uh positive coaching.
• 58:07
  SPEAKER_00: Positive coaching.
• 58:09
  SPEAKER_00: You know, understand that they do not have a hundred percent output.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, some of them they have they they they struggle just kicking a ball, but we need to make them believe that they're gonna be good, yeah.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: And that that is uh not everybody's forte.
• 58:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um, and not every coach roams in in the right age group.
• 58:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's the other thing.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_00: So we have coaches that are very competitive coaches, and we bring them into the U7, U8.
• 58:40
  SPEAKER_00: It's not gonna work.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: They don't have maybe the patience, and they want to go, they want to go to 11v11 in their heads with seven-year-old kids.
• 58:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's failing, it's it's it's a mismatch, right?
• 58:51
  SPEAKER_00: Right, and and so we have we need to find the right place for the coach.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: There's great coaches that can do skill development, they're good at saying, Okay, this is the next two years, I'll make this player a great decision maker because they have a way of setting up their practices in in talking, in in managing the game where they focus on that piece, you know, while playing the game.
• 59:16
  SPEAKER_00: They focus on the things that need to be done at the individual level, not sacrificing, you know, a strong player to always be in the back or in the front, but put them in the middle sometimes and let them let them work with different angles and decision making versus always look at the same and look forwards and play the ball high and strong uh and far.
• 59:35
  SPEAKER_00: Let's put that player in the middle sometimes where it has to work with different angles, and he needs to dribble and he needs to make decisions different than being the back.
• 59:46
  SPEAKER_00: Just an example, but um we need to work with if we get it right in the first four years, first six years, then then we can move forwards and and really enjoy the game, and we can create players that most likely have more passion because when you when you can do things well, you gain confidence and you like it, right?
• 1:00:09
  SPEAKER_00: And and and I think at the level where we're the players are starting to understand who they are.
• 1:00:15
  SPEAKER_00: No longer a coach, you're good or or a parent, you're a good, you're a good player, you're better than this and this.
• 1:00:22
  SPEAKER_00: You in the beginning don't know, you're not measuring yourself, right?
• 1:00:25
  SPEAKER_00: But when we start playing the system 11 v11, and we're asking, coaches are asking now, all these demands are coming in, the overlapping runs, and we we need to make the you know, we were stretching the the field of play, the point of attack, and it's a 30-40-yard pass, and you cannot do it, or it's a 20-yard pass that you can't deliver, you can't control.
• 1:00:46
  SPEAKER_01: You can't get it down.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_00: So, what now you start thinking is I'm not that good.
• 1:00:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, I always thought that was okay, but now there's no more, nobody can lie anymore to you.
• 1:00:56
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:00:57
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people do lie, or they rely on stats.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: I had a player back in uh western New York where he was 12 years old, but he was like a bull in a China uh China shop where he was big, fast, strong, nobody can stop him, everybody was scared of him, and he scored a boatload of goals.
• 1:01:18
  SPEAKER_01: But I told his parents, I go, he really needs to improve uh like on his weak foot, he really needs to get better on the ball.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_01: His first touch is like three yards that way, three.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_01: We never know where it's gonna go, and he never knows where it's gonna go, and he's gonna need to improve that.
• 1:01:32
  SPEAKER_01: And the parents like attacked me for saying that like he needed to work on something because he's like, Well, he just scored 30 goals this this past season.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, it doesn't matter, and then fast forward four they stopped training with me.
• 1:01:47
  SPEAKER_01: Fast forward four or five years, he's gone from club to club to club to club, and then he didn't he stopped playing because those coaches down the line ended up saying the exact same thing that I said when he was younger.
• 1:01:59
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's almost you gotta like I don't know, is it education or is it just it's all about what you can do on the ball, every single thing.
• 1:02:12
  SPEAKER_01: Isn't it funny how the game has changed, right?
• 1:02:16
  SPEAKER_01: It was Italy with the flatback four, and then it was uh obviously Tikitaka and uh Cruyff had a uh had a big influence, and then Brazilian with just you know uh play to a rhythm, but it's the technique of the player that really hasn't changed.
• 1:02:38
  SPEAKER_01: Pele was doing things that Messi is doing the that part, and I feel that if you nail that part of player development, those players are gonna go on and be pretty good players.
• 1:02:52
  SPEAKER_01: But if you fast forward and you just focus everything on decision making or everything on tactics, they're gonna miss that piece, and that's harder to add on when they're 15, 16, and the confidence.
• 1:03:03
  SPEAKER_01: You talk about the confidence of one-on-one.
• 1:03:08
  SPEAKER_01: If if a player doesn't have that confidence to take a player on at 12, good luck getting that at 14 or 16, because that is that's very hard to do.
• 1:03:20
  SPEAKER_01: And when you're not good on the ball and not confident in taking one-on-one, and aren't good at taking players one-on-one, you enjoy the game less, and that's why our dropout rate is at 13 or 14.
• 1:03:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's not because they hate soccer, it's because they realize that they're not good, they're not as good as they're self-awareness kicks in.
• 1:03:46
  SPEAKER_00: Self-awareness kicks in.
• 1:03:47
  SPEAKER_00: You you you start measuring yourself with others, and you start measuring yourself with the demands of the game, and the demands of the game at the higher level becomes faster, it becomes quicker decision making.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, comfort on the ball has to be very high.
• 1:04:01
  SPEAKER_00: Confidence levels, obviously, confidence gives you the feel, gives you feeling good, wanting the ball, you know, wanting the ball, being on the ball, being on the ball is what you're there for.
• 1:04:10
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, touching the ball is what you want, right?
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_00: But if you don't have that same confidence, you actually don't want the ball.
• 1:04:16
  SPEAKER_00: You don't want to make the run to get on the ball.
• 1:04:19
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, you're scared to once you have the ball here.
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: Internally, you don't always understand what it is, but it's just it's a feeling of not feeling confident together.
• 1:04:29
  SPEAKER_01: I think it was like in the 2010, maybe 2006 World Cup, they did a study.
• 1:04:34
  SPEAKER_01: What is if you played 90 minutes, how often are you on the ball?
• 1:04:39
  SPEAKER_01: And it was something like two minutes, right?
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_01: Average player was on the ball for two minutes out of a 90 minutes.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel that a lot of sessions at the youth level are towards those 88 minutes, and not enough are on that two minutes.
• 1:04:57
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 1:04:58
  SPEAKER_01: I think they just abandon the two minutes, and they expect there are a lot of coaches that expect players to work at home on their own, and it just isn't happening.
• 1:05:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, coaches here do need to spend more time on those two minutes.
• 1:05:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's very hard, Jason.
• 1:05:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think again, we go back to to the coaches that are typically roaming there, and these are newer coaches, or there's some some, you know, I've I've been there myself as well for years, but you coach one or two teams and then you coach the higher-level teams.
• 1:05:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but very few can can live with within in a very small spectrum of what they can and cannot do, right?
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, they there's a lot of things they cannot do, there's very few things they can do right in soccer.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: So now the very few things they can do, we need to expand that.
• 1:05:51
  SPEAKER_00: And we need to get them better with it, better dribbling, better turning, the basic fundamentals.
• 1:05:56
  SPEAKER_00: But you need to live almost four years because we're starting at U6 now.
• 1:06:00
  SPEAKER_00: U6, U7, U8, U9.
• 1:06:03
  SPEAKER_00: We need to live with very few ingredients.
• 1:06:06
  SPEAKER_00: There's no team play in it.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_00: Very few teamplay.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:06:09
  SPEAKER_00: Very few passing.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_00: It is individual and that is based because that's how their brain at that moment operates.
• 1:06:16
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 1:06:17
  SPEAKER_00: We all know that.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now, parents don't understand it, and they should because they know the kid better than anybody else.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_00: Pass, pass, pass, pass.
• 1:06:23
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, you're not giving him the keys to your car because you know they're going to crash.
• 1:06:28
  SPEAKER_00: It can't even have to reach the pedals.
• 1:06:30
  SPEAKER_00: They're not ready for it physically, mentally, emotionally, everything.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_00: So now if we talk about a soccer player that's six years old, the parents think that they should be spreading out.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_00: The kid sees the ball and at six years old.
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's the only thing I'm there for.
• 1:06:46
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_00: I want to get that ball before you or teammates.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_00: You don't care about the teammate.
• 1:06:51
  SPEAKER_00: I want that ball because the ball is what it's about.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_00: And they don't understand.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_00: And we as coaches need to be strong and say, parents, nonsense.
• 1:07:00
  SPEAKER_00: What you're saying, nonsense.
• 1:07:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I can stop the game.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I can spread them wherever they need to be.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think happens five seconds from now when the ball rolls?
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_00: Well, they'll be back to it again.
• 1:07:12
  SPEAKER_00: So we know that it doesn't matter.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: I can do that 20 times, and 20 times the balls, everybody will come together again.
• 1:07:18
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not about spreading out.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_00: Now, what we can do is limit numbers.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: So let's not play 4v4 even at U6 or 6v6.
• 1:07:27
  SPEAKER_00: Let's find the 1v1s.
• 1:07:29
  SPEAKER_00: Let's find the 2v1s.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but that's not what the game is about.
• 1:07:33
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to see those games.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_00: We want to see real games.
• 1:07:36
  SPEAKER_00: What does a real game look like at U6?
• 1:07:38
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:07:39
  SPEAKER_00: Is it well 4v4s, I guess, is what we determined.
• 1:07:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but is that even right?
• 1:07:43
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's not.
• 1:07:44
  SPEAKER_00: Because now there's there's the tendency of 2v2s, right?
• 1:07:48
  SPEAKER_00: And there's nations that have figured that out as well.
• 1:07:51
  SPEAKER_00: Less numbers, less complexity, more success, more touches on the ball, more decision making, more involvement, more learning.
• 1:08:01
  SPEAKER_01: In 2009, 2010, U.S.
• 1:08:06
  SPEAKER_01: Soccer had this uh document.
• 1:08:08
  SPEAKER_01: It was called uh Best Practices for Player Development.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_01: And it was excellent.
• 1:08:13
  SPEAKER_01: I almost like I lived by that thing.
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_01: But it said, and somebody, I think it was like Manny Scheit or whatever his name is, he said something where it was soccer is not a team sport until 11 years old, and we want to teach pass, pass, pass, pass, pass and shape and patterns, even at like nine years old.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, what are we doing?
• 1:08:38
  SPEAKER_01: Because it's all about just the player's individual relationship with the ball.
• 1:08:43
  SPEAKER_01: The entire sport is all about relationship building, and the one that gets neglected the most is most likely the player and the ball.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_00: Drives me nuts.
• 1:08:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, because we again we we just have in our heads we know what soccer looks like at the end.
• 1:09:02
  SPEAKER_00: At that side, the end.
• 1:09:03
  SPEAKER_00: We're looking at 11v11, college, high school.
• 1:09:07
  SPEAKER_00: That's where we're we're parents, that that's where the memory is always, and that's where we as players, ex-players, are thinking of.
• 1:09:13
  SPEAKER_00: I I don't know what it was when I was seven years old.
• 1:09:16
  SPEAKER_00: I actually think at that time, quite honestly, the now we played 11v11.
• 1:09:20
  SPEAKER_00: I remember running on a big field when we were like eight, nine years old.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, yeah.
• 1:09:23
  SPEAKER_00: And we had 31 here.
• 1:09:24
  SPEAKER_00: 31-0 games, honestly, because we had a good little kids group.
• 1:09:28
  SPEAKER_00: 31-0 was a score, 20-0 was a score at that time, right?
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but but we would so a lot of things have gone the right direction.
• 1:09:38
  SPEAKER_00: I like where we are.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think there's a coup there's a conversation happening more and more.
• 1:09:44
  SPEAKER_00: Um, the biggest struggle is that we just don't have, I think, enough coaches that have the real know-how of how to coach seven, eight, nine, ten, eleven-year-olds with very limited ingredients.
• 1:09:58
  SPEAKER_00: That's very limited things.
• 1:10:00
  SPEAKER_00: How can we stay and build practices every single time that's different?
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, and and Renee always used the ingredients like you know what, you have very few things at U6 and U7.
• 1:10:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you you have a potato, uh and and that's where you work with, you know, you're the cook and you gotta make something with with the potato and and with uh with the veggie, and that's it.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_00: You're not going to to create a four four course course meal, right?
• 1:10:28
  SPEAKER_00: That is a whole different thing.
• 1:10:29
  SPEAKER_00: That's a four-star restaurant that comes in with all that, but you just learning how to cook, and and what can you do with this potato, and then how many different ways can you can you present it to your clients, right?
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what we do, they have very limited understanding, dribbling, churning, shooting, passing, but that has to be done at their level, and then we have to slowly present it in different ways for years and years and years before we read it.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_01: Years and years and years.
• 1:10:57
  SPEAKER_00: Now we think we've done this the scissors, and everybody can do the scissors, I've seen it, and now it has to happen in the game.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_00: It will never be how it works, it's not so we have to help them more, and we have to remind them, and we have to coach them towards guys.
• 1:11:11
  SPEAKER_00: This game today is about what have we practiced the last two, three, four weeks.
• 1:11:18
  SPEAKER_00: How we worked in these up-down moves, spin moves.
• 1:11:20
  SPEAKER_00: Good.
• 1:11:21
  SPEAKER_00: I want you to have the courage to find and do the spin move in the game.
• 1:11:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's it.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we want to see.
• 1:11:27
  SPEAKER_00: You know, I know there's the goal, and yes, we want to go there, and we will go there, but more importantly, is that we see sometimes this the turns that we've worked on, the courage, the understanding, the trying, even just having the sense of I can do this.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we do because once they get it, they they know the power, they feel the power of oh, I just beat this kid with this move.
• 1:11:51
  SPEAKER_00: I just beat this kid with that move, and suddenly this move becomes a whole different animal for him.
• 1:11:57
  SPEAKER_00: It wants to do it again and again and get success.
• 1:12:00
  SPEAKER_00: Now it solves that situation.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_00: Now we can go to the next level.
• 1:12:03
  SPEAKER_00: What do you do next?
• 1:12:04
  SPEAKER_00: Because now you have time.
• 1:12:06
  SPEAKER_00: You just beat a player.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_00: Now you have time.
• 1:12:07
  SPEAKER_00: What are you gonna do?
• 1:12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Dribble, pass, whatever it is.
• 1:12:10
  SPEAKER_00: So now you can now you can build.
• 1:12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Now you build from another ingredient comes in, passing comes in now.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 1:12:17
  SPEAKER_00: So that's kind of how I see the coaching from a young player.
• 1:12:21
  SPEAKER_00: You keep adding on and plugging in these things that become more complicated, and you create the player so it can play when it matters most.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_01: You talked about self-awareness as a player.
• 1:12:33
  SPEAKER_01: When when did you get your self-awareness as a coach of like individual player development?
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_01: That's where what I want to focus on.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_01: It didn't happen for me until I coached at nearly every level.
• 1:12:47
  SPEAKER_01: I coached from U6 all the way up ECNL, the old DA, college, and then NWSL.
• 1:12:57
  SPEAKER_01: When did you know that like individual player development?
• 1:13:02
  SPEAKER_01: The 11v11 game is wonderful, and being able to coach teens is wonderful, but it's about the individual one-on-one.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_00: When was that for you?
• 1:13:10
  SPEAKER_00: A young age, very young.
• 1:13:12
  SPEAKER_00: I was not a coach.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, Will Kurver, obviously Dutch, and and Will Kurver came in uh at that time when he was introducing his his program.
• 1:13:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:13:23
  SPEAKER_00: Uh he came to Dutch clubs, so he happened to come into my town, and that was Olympia.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_00: Is it the booksmeer?
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_00: And the club was Olympia, uh, Olympia 18, 1918.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_00: That's how old the club was.
• 1:13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I was a player, and I think at that time I was about 11 years old.
• 1:13:39
  SPEAKER_00: So he came in town, and he was a name for us already.
• 1:13:42
  SPEAKER_00: We knew Will Cover coming in town, you know.
• 1:13:44
  SPEAKER_00: He was a coach that has coached at high levels, and now he comes over here to teach us skills.
• 1:13:49
  SPEAKER_00: And we were selected.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_00: I was selected with another group of I don't know, I think 12 or 14 players.
• 1:13:55
  SPEAKER_00: So he did all the work, and I was very systematic.
• 1:13:58
  SPEAKER_00: It was everybody in lines, you know, you had rows of four and three deep, and everybody did at the same time the moves and this and that.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_00: But that's where that has never been shown to me at that time.
• 1:14:09
  SPEAKER_00: I never had that experience.
• 1:14:10
  SPEAKER_00: And and suddenly I think, man, all this stuff, it's it's cool, it's fun.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Number one, number two, I can do it if I keep doing this.
• 1:14:19
  SPEAKER_00: And and I start to say that this is most likely something that that I need to really work on because I can see there's benefit to it.
• 1:14:26
  SPEAKER_00: That was just as an 11-year-old, like this made sense to me.
• 1:14:29
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but then obviously, being in Holland, we are a technical nation.
• 1:14:33
  SPEAKER_00: We we we we we take pride in technique, creativity, particularly then.
• 1:14:36
  SPEAKER_00: You know, when you talk about the 80s, uh 90s, obviously, just came off the 70s and the 74-78.
• 1:14:43
  SPEAKER_00: So there was a lot of good vibes in Holland, and we were well respected, but it was technical training, it was technic technique training.
• 1:14:51
  SPEAKER_00: So we've we've we've gotten that quite a bit.
• 1:14:54
  SPEAKER_00: I know the value of it.
• 1:14:55
  SPEAKER_00: I came here, I saw American teams, and uh, I coached a bunch of them early on, and and and I think, man, we we are lacking, we need corresponding.
• 1:15:06
  SPEAKER_00: We are lacking, we are strong, we have a mindset.
• 1:15:09
  SPEAKER_00: We back to the puzzle piece, blue mental, the American player at that time, and still is I feel is a strong, mentally strong player.
• 1:15:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um, then you have the tactic, not so much because we don't play enough.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_00: No, we just don't play enough situations, and then there was that skill factor, and there were players that had good skill, but if you don't know when and how, right, it it becomes just a waste, right?
• 1:15:38
  SPEAKER_00: It becomes frustrating almost.
• 1:15:40
  SPEAKER_00: And then that's uh that uh physical parts I said was strong overall, but but it was not connected with the game of soccer, right?
• 1:15:49
  SPEAKER_00: Just the understanding of what to do, what we have.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_00: Who am I and what am I bringing to the game?
• 1:15:55
  SPEAKER_00: And what does the game need?
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_00: And can I have answers for that game?
• 1:15:59
  SPEAKER_01: And yeah, the answers and decision making, and I feel like the better the the better you are on the ball, the easier the decisions are to even see.
• 1:16:12
  SPEAKER_01: Because how often when a kid struggles on a ball, they're only looking at the ball, and then we yell at them for the decision that they made, but they didn't even know the decisions that they had to choose from, right?
• 1:16:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then so many times they play one pass, and it's because they're rushed, they're not confident on the ball, they've played to the one person that they see, and they don't even know that there's somebody there wide open, and it's because they're not confident on the ball, but when they are confident on the ball, everything slows down, and then their vision gets better, and it's all related to tactical decision making, and I think it's all part of that, yeah.
• 1:16:58
  SPEAKER_00: It is, and then you but but you have to build your your buildings don't your foundation has to be strong, right?
• 1:17:04
  SPEAKER_00: And and the and the poor foundation gives a poor result long term, right?
• 1:17:07
  SPEAKER_00: It won't last.
• 1:17:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we talk about the houser in the foundation that's terrible.
• 1:17:11
  SPEAKER_00: We all know that the houser is not going to stand up for 200 years, it's not gonna withstand the wind and the time and everything else.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_00: But but if we so we're coming back to to the same issue, and the same issue remains that we want to fast-track players, coaches want to coach what they want to coach.
• 1:17:31
  SPEAKER_00: This is the team that I have for you.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_00: What they don't do enough, and I don't want to just put everybody in that same category, but but by far I see coaches in the young age, coaches working with young ages, and it's about what can you as a as a player give me to make me the game successful.
• 1:17:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're not looking at what is it that I need to give the player.
• 1:17:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's almost like I want to take from the player so we can compete.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_00: Rather than I want to, I want to give to the player, I want to give all my knowledge, my understanding, and and my knowledge and my passion.
• 1:18:10
  SPEAKER_00: I want to give that and I bring that to you.
• 1:18:12
  SPEAKER_00: That is that is what I do.
• 1:18:14
  SPEAKER_00: That's what we do.
• 1:18:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's what we that's the relationship you should have.
• 1:18:19
  SPEAKER_01: I should give.
• 1:18:20
  SPEAKER_01: You want to give to players, not take from players.
• 1:18:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:18:24
  SPEAKER_00: That that's that's kind of where a lot of us go wrong.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_00: We we're robbing the player from actually becoming a player.
• 1:18:31
  SPEAKER_00: Because we want what we want out of that player to be successful in games.
• 1:18:38
  SPEAKER_00: That's the end phase for us, the game.
• 1:18:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's nothing.
• 1:18:40
  SPEAKER_01: How often is that coached out of players?
• 1:18:44
  SPEAKER_01: Let let's say it's a player that is trying different skills, or a player is trying to take a player on over and over and over again.
• 1:18:55
  SPEAKER_01: How often do you think that is actually taken from the player of taken out of the player?
• 1:19:02
  SPEAKER_01: What do you think?
• 1:19:03
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is way too much.
• 1:19:05
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's coached out of them, and it's and it's almost their personality.
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_01: The kids that do that, that's in their personality, and you're robbing the kid of putting their personality on the game.
• 1:19:17
  SPEAKER_01: Ronaldo played with personality, he played with his personality, I'm pretty sure.
• 1:19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Imagine taking that from him, and you do, Jason, you do.
• 1:19:30
  SPEAKER_01: Remember Renee at the expo, you're talking about what can I add to this player, not not change.
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 1:19:37
  SPEAKER_00: It was not about changing at that level, and and that's for us too.
• 1:19:41
  SPEAKER_00: We don't want to change the young player.
• 1:19:42
  SPEAKER_00: What is there to change?
• 1:19:44
  SPEAKER_00: We just want him to become better at what they do, give him more tools.
• 1:19:49
  SPEAKER_00: So, our our we're reaching out with new tools, new ideas, new opportunities.
• 1:19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Now, they don't get it right, obviously, right away, but but we're giving them the time to to you know to get it right, which means what you said to your point.
• 1:20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um, how many times can a player fail in a 1v1 that it tries to attempt?
• 1:20:13
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a number to it?
• 1:20:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know.
• 1:20:16
  SPEAKER_00: In my opinion, there's no number to it.
• 1:20:18
  SPEAKER_00: We we can be every time it happens and there's something not working, there is this why is it not working?
• 1:20:24
  SPEAKER_00: And and how can we make this better?
• 1:20:26
  SPEAKER_00: There's no doubt that that is a responsibility on our end.
• 1:20:29
  SPEAKER_00: There's freedom, and then there's a moment that we say, Okay, you've done this 10 times, it doesn't work.
• 1:20:34
  SPEAKER_00: So now let me help you a couple times.
• 1:20:36
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe this is what you can do, maybe this move has to be done better.
• 1:20:40
  SPEAKER_00: But maybe after three times, let's not do this five times in a row.
• 1:20:44
  SPEAKER_00: We also have we have some responsibility to our teammates.
• 1:20:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, maybe you do an up-down move rather than making the move to go past them.
• 1:20:53
  SPEAKER_00: Let's bring them in, do an up-down move, and find somebody that's behind you.
• 1:20:58
  SPEAKER_00: So now there's success as well, because I want you to be successful as well.
• 1:21:02
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to discourage you from on V1, but I also want an end product that makes you feel good.
• 1:21:07
  SPEAKER_00: So that these are the things that we need to have in our heads, and then we need to address that the right way.
• 1:21:13
  SPEAKER_00: So the kid feels like you're helping them, not going uh negative on them.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_00: But think about the parents, what happens on the parent side?
• 1:21:21
  SPEAKER_00: So, coaches are one part of of this process, but every parent will say, Go, go, go, travel, go, pass them, beat them, pass.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_00: And this player has no clue anymore what to do, right?
• 1:21:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so we are all at at odds with what actually needs to happen, right?
• 1:21:40
  SPEAKER_00: When you stay calm, the player stays calm.
• 1:21:43
  SPEAKER_00: Bingo, and calmness allows people to make better decisions, um, and and it gives the autonomy of decision making to the player, which is really where it should be.
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And yes, three, four years, you will be frustrated at times as a parent, but oh man, will you ever get it?
• 1:22:02
  SPEAKER_00: And then there it is, bam, he gets it.
• 1:22:05
  SPEAKER_00: And now you say, Wow, there's a whole different player coming out of it.
• 1:22:09
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, but it took three years, it took two months, it took two years, it doesn't matter.
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_00: You just have to believe that this is the right way of doing things and keep your mouth shut.
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_00: Just keep your mouth shut.
• 1:22:21
  SPEAKER_00: And coaches keep our mouth shut sometimes, you know.
• 1:22:24
  SPEAKER_01: I would always ask my young, like especially girls players.
• 1:22:28
  SPEAKER_01: I go, Do you like watching men's soccer?
• 1:22:31
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, No.
• 1:22:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I go, why?
• 1:22:34
  SPEAKER_01: And it's always the same answer.
• 1:22:35
  SPEAKER_01: That's too boring.
• 1:22:37
  SPEAKER_01: I go, okay, when you're watching men's soccer, why is it boring?
• 1:22:41
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking like the highest, highest level.
• 1:22:43
  SPEAKER_01: Why is it boring?
• 1:22:46
  SPEAKER_01: Usually it's boring because they are all calm on the ball, they rarely make technical mistakes that youth players make.
• 1:22:55
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how often my favorite skill in the entire sport is when a ball gets switched in the air over 45 yards, and this guy brings the ball down in a dime.
• 1:23:07
  SPEAKER_01: How many players?
• 1:23:09
  SPEAKER_01: I noticed this in the World Cup, that even the smallest, uh, smallest countries, Curaçao, those players can bring that ball down on a dime.
• 1:23:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's why it's boring because it's it's just they're so calm on the ball, their their decision making to be able to keep the ball is so good.
• 1:23:33
  SPEAKER_01: And we listen to parents saying, go, go, go, go, go, everything has to be as fast.
• 1:23:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like when we watch, when I watch you soccer, it's almost like they have a shot clock.
• 1:23:45
  SPEAKER_01: Sure, we're gonna be patient in the buildup, but then once we get to half, can we score in 24 seconds?
• 1:23:53
  SPEAKER_01: It's a wait, what happened to the patience?
• 1:23:56
  SPEAKER_01: What happened to the the the calmness?
• 1:23:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it goes way out the window, it's frustrating.
• 1:24:02
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then I don't know why why I mean I wish that we, you know, we can all come up with answers, I think.
• 1:24:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh in in in in reasoning why, but there's a lot of variety in our answers, I feel we don't have a true vision about what it is that we need to do better as a whole, as a whole country.
• 1:24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we all have different different vibes, and part of it is we are a culture of that with many mini cultures, exactly.
• 1:24:29
  SPEAKER_00: And and uh that can work for us, it can work against us, uh, but but the biggest piece, I think, the biggest force is the um is is the is the parent culture um of of almost being impatient with our own kids.
• 1:24:47
  SPEAKER_00: The expectation, the expectations that we have towards our kids in school, in getting good grades, and in you know, failing is no longer allowed, you know.
• 1:25:00
  SPEAKER_00: Learning is almost something that is no longer allowed.
• 1:25:03
  SPEAKER_00: We just need to be.
• 1:25:05
  SPEAKER_00: You need to be here, you need to be there, otherwise, nothing good will happen to you long term.
• 1:25:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I mean, and I that's just the way I I view it.
• 1:25:14
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I could be completely out of my mark, but that's just my my viewpoint.
• 1:25:19
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I see that there's a tremendous amount of pressure on kids, uh hence the parents are always involved, and that creates pressure.
• 1:25:27
  SPEAKER_00: That's easy for me to to defend that statement because that's what I see everywhere.
• 1:25:33
  SPEAKER_00: And and what it does, do you think it stops just at the soccer field?
• 1:25:37
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe so.
• 1:25:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, I think that carries on and many other things.
• 1:25:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the other side, they cannot see their kit fail, they cannot handle failure, even from a kid.
• 1:25:50
  SPEAKER_00: It's it just can't happen.
• 1:25:52
  SPEAKER_00: There's somebody is it's somebody's fault.
• 1:25:54
  SPEAKER_00: It's the referee's fault.
• 1:25:55
  SPEAKER_00: He didn't call his fault, it's it's the coach's fault, he doesn't train well.
• 1:26:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's the teacher's fault.
• 1:26:02
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:26:02
  SPEAKER_01: If I didn't do my homework, I would get yelled at.
• 1:26:05
  SPEAKER_01: Nowadays, the teacher gets yelled at for not like repeating themselves before the the ranking too much homework, or giving too much homework, exactly.
• 1:26:15
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, these kids cannot have three hours of homework, really.
• 1:26:18
  SPEAKER_00: Well, so what what what do they have then?
• 1:26:20
  SPEAKER_00: Do they have any responsibilities?
• 1:26:22
  SPEAKER_00: Do they have any homework?
• 1:26:23
  SPEAKER_00: That's not good, you know.
• 1:26:24
  SPEAKER_00: So I mean I'm I'm I'm a little bit uh I'm old school and I know that, and I'm starting to be the old man in the club.
• 1:26:31
  SPEAKER_00: Uh there's a disconnect coming with players slowly.
• 1:26:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:26:35
  SPEAKER_00: Um I notice it.
• 1:26:37
  SPEAKER_00: I it it's it there is a disconnect in how I was raised, my my value system, the standards that that I hold myself to as a coach, but also when I was a player, my parents were 100% not involved in anything.
• 1:26:51
  SPEAKER_00: Now they weren't bad parents, but they never ever expected my two brothers and myself from a soccer perspective to to be something that we were not, or to go outside and practice more, or it wasn't there, it was never there.
• 1:27:10
  SPEAKER_00: They watched the games only home, home games.
• 1:27:12
  SPEAKER_00: You said we have three kids, we have lives, we have a yard to take care of, we have our hobbies for ourselves, we have work, and so we're only gonna come and watch our home games, and they were never hurt.
• 1:27:24
  SPEAKER_00: I could never hear them talk and yell and scream, and afterwards, no matter what we win, loss, if I scored three goals, or I scored zero goals, or we lost three zero, and I was in a pissy mood for a while, they just left me alone.
• 1:27:37
  SPEAKER_00: Hey, how are you doing?
• 1:27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Sort of game.
• 1:27:41
  SPEAKER_00: Never even like, well, there were some great goals, you are good, or whatever.
• 1:27:44
  SPEAKER_00: None of that, just did you enjoy it?
• 1:27:46
  SPEAKER_01: That was it.
• 1:27:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's almost like soccer is being a soccer parent is their hobby, it is their identity.
• 1:27:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like the kids they identify as a soccer.
• 1:28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Player the parents identify as talker parents.
• 1:28:02
  SPEAKER_01: Do you ever get back home?
• 1:28:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 1:28:06
  SPEAKER_01: So how okay our country has a Dutch influence, especially on the coaching side, the coaching development side over the years.
• 1:28:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right now we're very we have a lot of French.
• 1:28:23
  SPEAKER_01: We have a lot of French influence.
• 1:28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Oh it's Didier.
• 1:28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 1:28:26
  SPEAKER_00: The head of coaching.
• 1:28:28
  SPEAKER_01: So we have we have obviously South American influence.
• 1:28:32
  SPEAKER_01: And we can't.
• 1:28:34
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that we could ever have one uniform style or identity.
• 1:28:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's just gonna be too complicated.
• 1:28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's talk about back home.
• 1:28:48
  SPEAKER_01: Do you feel like you guys have lost that technical component a little bit?
• 1:28:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um yes.
• 1:28:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or is it still there?
• 1:28:57
  SPEAKER_01: But it's like too many of your players now go away from your league and they go to EPL, they go to Bundesliga.
• 1:29:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think I think that yes, at the at the highest level where we see talented kids, I I think uh Holland will always have technical players, you know, the 16, 17, 18-year-old top players.
• 1:29:19
  SPEAKER_00: They they they are technical, they've been they play soccer a lot more than than just inside a club.
• 1:29:25
  SPEAKER_00: They are they're finding opportunities.
• 1:29:27
  SPEAKER_00: They are top, right?
• 1:29:28
  SPEAKER_00: They're passionate, they they are just players, they've always played.
• 1:29:32
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think they are just very creative still, but yes, leagues and and going to the top and knowing that a win and a loss can can can be a difference of millions and you know, hundreds of millions at times, uh is has changed the game as well.
• 1:29:49
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you will see that uh every team is very organized, every team has uh incredible tight spaces now.
• 1:29:56
  SPEAKER_00: The lines are compact.
• 1:29:58
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, nobody has an open game plan anymore, like you saw in the 70s, 80s, and 90s, when there were where there really lines were open, you could play through it, and it was like waves coming left and right, right?
• 1:30:08
  SPEAKER_01: Everything beat each other up.
• 1:30:10
  SPEAKER_01: Everything is now about beating uh uh breaking down a block of eight or block of ten.
• 1:30:16
  SPEAKER_00: Everything, everything is now indeed.
• 1:30:18
  SPEAKER_00: The conversation is a block, a block of five, even in the back, right?
• 1:30:22
  SPEAKER_00: So defending, we're sitting in our eighteen.
• 1:30:24
  SPEAKER_00: We be defending as deep as the eighteen, and sometimes the twelve.
• 1:30:28
  SPEAKER_00: That's that's where a block can go in.
• 1:30:30
  SPEAKER_00: If you're England, the six, yeah.
• 1:30:33
  SPEAKER_00: But but but what it does is it's it creates again another type of player in the end.
• 1:30:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's it's uh it's a lot more passing moving, it's a lot more um finding that one moment to to break down, and you still, yet you still need those those those skillful players that can break open the game.
• 1:30:51
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly, you know, so that demand is is most likely even higher, you know.
• 1:30:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that you will see that in the World Cup, you will see the teams that were successful, you see it in the in the Champions League, and and in all the top leagues, you will see that those players, those are the players you need to have those players.
• 1:31:08
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and man, you in this case, that's still where where the heart is here too for me, right?
• 1:31:12
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, don't we don't have those players at this moment, certainly not enough to make uh make an impact.
• 1:31:17
  SPEAKER_00: And and those are the players that we had, you know, with the the Ronaldos or the Rooneys, the the Gigs with our runs, Vanilsoroid, like those play like I miss those teams so much.
• 1:31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and there's less of them, I feel, you know.
• 1:31:32
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, you we all know that at the top, but it's yeah, I think it's fewer.
• 1:31:37
  SPEAKER_01: I feel I don't know the obsession with building out of the back, right?
• 1:31:44
  SPEAKER_01: We brought it up.
• 1:31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Was it Renee or somebody else?
• 1:31:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh no, it was um it was with uh Pete Pizaski from from Jads, and he was talking about like if the goalkeeper just passes every single time he has a goal kick, that's not a decision.
• 1:31:59
  SPEAKER_01: If if he only lumps it forward, that's not a decision.
• 1:32:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then somebody comes in and is like, well, we're never gonna arrive as a country until we can build out of the back.
• 1:32:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, hold on, that's all a lot of coaches work on is building out of the back.
• 1:32:15
  SPEAKER_01: What we can't do, and what a lot of the world seemingly can't do, is block is break down an organized defense.
• 1:32:24
  SPEAKER_01: Because at the end of the day, yeah, there's counterattacks and there's that moment of transition that used to be the most important part of the game, and it still is.
• 1:32:33
  SPEAKER_01: But when you have a few passes and that and that allows that team to have an organized defense in front of their goal, it is almost impossible for us, the United States, to score against that.
• 1:32:47
  SPEAKER_01: And that building out of the back isn't gonna solve that.
• 1:32:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be we need to work in the final third.
• 1:32:55
  SPEAKER_00: It's unpredictability, right?
• 1:32:57
  SPEAKER_00: It's the players that can do things that we cannot follow, that we cannot anticipate, uh, that that's hard to understand.
• 1:33:03
  SPEAKER_00: Um, players that that can do things intuitively, that that can uh move into spaces quicker with an understanding already what's what you're gonna accomplish with that move.
• 1:33:16
  SPEAKER_00: Are they gonna go behind?
• 1:33:17
  SPEAKER_00: Are they gonna make a spin move?
• 1:33:18
  SPEAKER_00: Are they whatever they want?
• 1:33:19
  SPEAKER_00: Are they gonna go to their weak foot, like a messy against England?
• 1:33:22
  SPEAKER_00: Yep, you know, so these are the those are the those top players, and you know, every nation needs to create those.
• 1:33:29
  SPEAKER_00: And uh, of course, there's a there's a natural talent, there's a god's gift, there's no doubt, of course, they are god gifted, but that's not enough.
• 1:33:36
  SPEAKER_00: They they still need to be trained and and and hammered into uh you know to save the game situations that they get, and they need to handle it.
• 1:33:45
  SPEAKER_00: And it starts at a young age, it starts again.
• 1:33:48
  SPEAKER_00: That's why we don't have them, in my opinion, because at a young age, even those God-gifted players are not getting the time and they don't get the amount of of um opportunity to to get it.
• 1:34:02
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and and I think it's it's a statement that has been made by thousands of of coaches.
• 1:34:07
  SPEAKER_00: If Messi was in America as a six-year-old, would Messi be this messy?
• 1:34:12
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely not.
• 1:34:12
  SPEAKER_00: No, absolutely not.
• 1:34:14
  SPEAKER_00: And if anybody says he would, they're just a line.
• 1:34:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's it's not in our culture to to accept what Messi was.
• 1:34:21
  SPEAKER_01: He arguably wasn't in Argentina, he wasn't even in Argentina considered that special of a player.
• 1:34:30
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't until he went to Barcelona and they fell in love with him.
• 1:34:37
  SPEAKER_01: If he doesn't go to Barcelona, he might not make it even out of Argentina.
• 1:34:42
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe he does, maybe he doesn't.
• 1:34:43
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know.
• 1:34:44
  SPEAKER_01: But when you're not okay, so you're filling in today because the guys are taking their B license.
• 1:34:51
  SPEAKER_01: What is your normal, like, how often are you here just observing sessions and walking the fields and watching the players and watching the coaches?
• 1:35:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, so so our our expectation, the expectation is there to be at the field two evenings.
• 1:35:08
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so I'm doing it two times, and then I'll just spend time with, you know, I'd look at I'll look at the overview with training um blocks, see which coaches are there.
• 1:35:19
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, the further we go in the season, we start thinking we start hearing things, we start seeing things, we we get in score lines.
• 1:35:25
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 1:35:26
  SPEAKER_00: We we we hear there's a there's a problem, uh coach has a hard time maybe relating with the players, or the training sessions are not up to par, or it's a great job, but let's focus on something different, whatever it might be.
• 1:35:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um, obviously, I have to categorize the importance or of of uh urgency in a way, you know.
• 1:35:45
  SPEAKER_00: What what can I do?
• 1:35:46
  SPEAKER_00: Can I do something?
• 1:35:47
  SPEAKER_00: And and then we uh we have to go for a plan.
• 1:35:49
  SPEAKER_00: I have to watch the session off, you know, that's where it starts.
• 1:35:52
  SPEAKER_00: You watch the session, um, you check out if there is a problem.
• 1:35:56
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and the problem is not a negative, it's just like how can we help each other?
• 1:36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Right?
• 1:36:00
  SPEAKER_00: Are you missing something?
• 1:36:01
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what is missing?
• 1:36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, are your training sessions too stagnant?
• 1:36:05
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you can see that the coach that the player is starting to lose interest because you've done something too long and you haven't added something new to it, you know.
• 1:36:14
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it just becomes part of coaching, yeah.
• 1:36:17
  SPEAKER_00: It truly is.
• 1:36:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
• 1:36:19
  SPEAKER_00: And and and are your sessions, number one, age of stage appropriate.
• 1:36:22
  SPEAKER_00: That's always the first thing I I would would address.
• 1:36:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what you teach is that appropriate for the kids, or is it again, is it what you want?
• 1:36:29
  SPEAKER_00: I want to take a what I want this to happen.
• 1:36:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if that's what you want, is that the right thing for the players?
• 1:36:37
  SPEAKER_00: If it is, fantastic, you're on the right track.
• 1:36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Now we have to figure out is it too long?
• 1:36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Is there a challenge?
• 1:36:42
  SPEAKER_00: Is the intensity right?
• 1:36:44
  SPEAKER_00: That's the thing that we then work with.
• 1:36:46
  SPEAKER_00: If it's wrong, I have to say, okay, scale it down, right?
• 1:36:50
  SPEAKER_00: This is too complex, and I can see this is too complex because this, this, and this doesn't work consistently.
• 1:36:56
  SPEAKER_00: So there's no success.
• 1:36:57
  SPEAKER_00: If there's no success, we have to wonder why.
• 1:37:00
  SPEAKER_00: Don't assume that it's the player not wanting to have success and that they're lazy and all that stuff.
• 1:37:06
  SPEAKER_00: Again, that's coming from a coach that doesn't look internally.
• 1:37:09
  SPEAKER_00: It is we need to look internally first.
• 1:37:11
  SPEAKER_00: Believe that every kid wants to be here and wants to play.
• 1:37:15
  SPEAKER_00: But we need to do something different.
• 1:37:17
  SPEAKER_00: So, that's what is that different going to look like?
• 1:37:19
  SPEAKER_00: It could be we have to scale it down.
• 1:37:21
  SPEAKER_00: The 4v4, the 6v6.
• 1:37:23
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's better to have two games of 3v3.
• 1:37:26
  SPEAKER_00: We'll see more results coming.
• 1:37:27
  SPEAKER_00: It's simpler, right?
• 1:37:28
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe the numbers have to be uh, you know, negative without the ball, or it's two two v3s, three v2s.
• 1:37:35
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, what is it that you want to accomplish?
• 1:37:37
  SPEAKER_00: What is your topic?
• 1:37:38
  SPEAKER_00: So all these things come out in that conversation afterwards to figure out where we can improve, where we can uh serve the player better.
• 1:37:47
  SPEAKER_00: That's maybe even the better way.
• 1:37:49
  SPEAKER_00: Serve the player better.
• 1:37:50
  SPEAKER_00: This is not you and me battling.
• 1:37:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't want to battle, but we need to get something good for them, and uh we can do better.
• 1:37:58
  SPEAKER_00: Let's do better.
• 1:37:59
  SPEAKER_01: How are you implementing the Mulancy method in any of the age groups or with any of the coaches yet or not yet?
• 1:38:09
  SPEAKER_00: Or well, the answer is yes, uh, but it's not coming from the business Mullenstate method side.
• 1:38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Correct.
• 1:38:15
  SPEAKER_01: I I bring this philosophy like your own philosophy, your own curriculum, which is the Mullenstein method, right?
• 1:38:22
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, but but you know, in this case, I'll I'll I'll I'll teach, I'll uh instruct, I I analyze with always my philosophy.
• 1:38:31
  SPEAKER_00: Everybody does, right?
• 1:38:33
  SPEAKER_00: You you have a footprint, you're you have a you have a blueprint that that that that you believe is the right way to develop players, uh, which is another thing that we talk about with coaches.
• 1:38:43
  SPEAKER_00: I said, coaches, every single one of you should have a clear understanding of what it is that you do.
• 1:38:50
  SPEAKER_00: You know, you're working with U10s.
• 1:38:52
  SPEAKER_00: What does that mean for you?
• 1:38:53
  SPEAKER_00: If a parent says, Why are you doing this activity?
• 1:38:56
  SPEAKER_00: You should have an answer.
• 1:38:58
  SPEAKER_00: You should start with, Well, they're coming from this.
• 1:39:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now I have them here in this age group, and they need to go there, so you need to understand the connectivity of development, and then I'm operating here.
• 1:39:11
  SPEAKER_00: This is what I have, and this is why I do what I do because long-term is leading to this.
• 1:39:18
  SPEAKER_00: Now, that's a long story, it shouldn't be that long because we can make this very short, right?
• 1:39:22
  SPEAKER_00: You know, but you need to be able to do that uh rather than feeling attacked.
• 1:39:28
  SPEAKER_00: Every parent has the right to say, Can I ask you a question?
• 1:39:32
  SPEAKER_00: Why did you do this or why did you decide that?
• 1:39:34
  SPEAKER_00: It's not an attack on me, it's not an attack on you, it's just a parent that wonders.
• 1:39:39
  SPEAKER_00: It's a parent that's asking a question, and we should be very open to that, and we should say, No problem.
• 1:39:45
  SPEAKER_00: That's actually very glad that you decide because we know parent education is massive, and maybe I haven't been clear enough in my parent meeting, right?
• 1:39:55
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of coaches that don't want to see parents at all, they want parents to be scared of them.
• 1:40:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a lot of coaches out there.
• 1:40:02
  SPEAKER_00: That time has passed.
• 1:40:03
  SPEAKER_01: That time has passed.
• 1:40:04
  SPEAKER_00: That was 10 years ago, 15 years ago was parents out of the way.
• 1:40:08
  SPEAKER_00: Parents are educated, parents can find answers themselves everywhere now.
• 1:40:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's full of it.
• 1:40:14
  SPEAKER_00: They can watch videos, they can they can they can go to the best, you know, podcasts.
• 1:40:19
  SPEAKER_00: You have plenty of them.
• 1:40:20
  SPEAKER_00: They come up with some some great responses from people that are very well educated and they can get their answers.
• 1:40:27
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but it's more about you being able to answer because it helps you to understand what you need to do.
• 1:40:34
  SPEAKER_01: I wanna hopefully what people can gain from this as well is that even Messi who just retired from international when he's at his sessions with Miami, he's still working on his technique, he's still making sure that he's sharp technically.
• 1:40:56
  SPEAKER_01: People uh like players at 16, 17, and 18 years old, college players, they need to make sure that they're not that they don't think that their technical is good enough because it's all it can always be better and it can always improve, and you can always close the skill gap between your weak your your good foot and your weak foot, you know.
• 1:41:18
  SPEAKER_01: It doesn't but that that's my thing is that I just want everybody to be as technically clean so that they can bring that 60 yard ball down on a dime.
• 1:41:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's all I want.
• 1:41:32
  SPEAKER_00: Jason, just a realization, right?
• 1:41:34
  SPEAKER_00: We have this conversation, I don't know how long we're in, but we keep coming back.
• 1:41:39
  SPEAKER_00: We keep coming back to the one thing that's 100% necessary for players to be successful.
• 1:41:47
  SPEAKER_00: It's not how strong you are, it's not how fast you are, it's not even how smart you are.
• 1:41:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's can you deliver what you see?
• 1:41:56
  SPEAKER_00: Can you deliver what your brain wants to do?
• 1:41:58
  SPEAKER_00: Can you do it with your feet?
• 1:42:01
  SPEAKER_00: And that means the feet is the end product of everything that we see.
• 1:42:05
  SPEAKER_00: See, I always say to the young kids, you know what?
• 1:42:07
  SPEAKER_00: Our eyes, our brain, and then our feet.
• 1:42:10
  SPEAKER_00: And everything we do at young age is everything is feet, and then we say, Why did I lose the ball?
• 1:42:19
  SPEAKER_00: Well, because your eyes were never even involved, yeah, when you would touch your eyes.
• 1:42:23
  SPEAKER_00: Everything starts with your eyes, slow the game down so you can see better, and then your decision making will be better as well, and then your feet have to do it.
• 1:42:32
  SPEAKER_00: So, but still, if the feet can't do it, and that's where at 14, 15, 16 you are, because now their brain is developed, they can see better, they understand the game better.
• 1:42:41
  SPEAKER_00: All that has increased.
• 1:42:44
  SPEAKER_00: But the feet are not ready or they have never been prepared.
• 1:42:48
  SPEAKER_00: Now the game is a frustration game.
• 1:42:50
  SPEAKER_00: Now you quit because you can do what you want to do, and that is because again, we we come back for years.
• 1:42:57
  SPEAKER_00: We talk about this.
• 1:42:58
  SPEAKER_00: Technical training is the foundation of success.
• 1:43:02
  SPEAKER_00: Technical training is the foundation of becoming the best you can be.
• 1:43:08
  SPEAKER_00: And uh the time that we spend already now with U12 and U13s in weight rooms.
• 1:43:14
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sorry, guys, and then we see it here as well at times.
• 1:43:18
  SPEAKER_00: Spend that hour doing with a ball, maybe even just play the game, play, just go on the field, third training session is on the field, coach is there, but it's not doing anything but observing.
• 1:43:30
  SPEAKER_00: You play your 3v3, 4v4 little tournaments, whatever you want to do.
• 1:43:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think it has tremendous value, or make it a complete technical session with an expert, an expert, a guy that knows exactly where this group is, how to get it to the next level, give it meaningful repetition, and then we can go somewhere.
• 1:43:51
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 1:43:52
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for doing this.
• 1:43:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you're welcome.
• 1:43:55
  SPEAKER_01: What's next for uh Mule and Steam Method?
• 1:43:57
  SPEAKER_01: Are you guys doing anything over the winter?
• 1:44:00
  SPEAKER_00: Um December 18 and 19.
• 1:44:04
  SPEAKER_00: We are in um Carmel.
• 1:44:07
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, in the Indian Indiana, right outside of Indianapolis.
• 1:44:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um family center.
• 1:44:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's an 11v11 indo facility, okay, much like the stars has in Washington.
• 1:44:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:44:20
  SPEAKER_00: Uh it's it's it's like three years old, I think.
• 1:44:23
  SPEAKER_00: And uh we'll run the uh run the US technical championship there.
• 1:44:27
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, it's in its 12th edition.
• 1:44:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's celebrating technique, creativity, personality.
• 1:44:37
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and that's what we see.
• 1:44:38
  SPEAKER_00: So we have players that come from most likely at this moment, four or five different states.
• 1:44:45
  SPEAKER_00: They are getting invites from us, they've been selected, identified, whether it be through camps, whether it be through clubs that we have very good connection with, whether I see him on the field, right?
• 1:44:56
  SPEAKER_00: I say that's a great kid.
• 1:44:57
  SPEAKER_00: I I have an invite for you, and then they go over there and then we run uh about a day and a half, all 1v1s, 2v1s, 3v2s, 4v4s, and we have a championship.
• 1:45:10
  SPEAKER_01: Are you still are you guys still providing curriculums for any clubs or partnering with any clubs out there?
• 1:45:20
  SPEAKER_01: Because there's some people that are listening to us that they might be interested.
• 1:45:24
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what I can say is we have what we have, and that's not bad because it's still current in their regard.
• 1:45:29
  SPEAKER_00: So the need has never changed, or our our um training per se hasn't changed.
• 1:45:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh, we believe this is the way to train.
• 1:45:39
  SPEAKER_00: There's only so many things you can do.
• 1:45:41
  SPEAKER_00: This is this is what we believe.
• 1:45:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:45:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um, is that age is a stage is technique and the skill and the strategy.
• 1:45:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:45:47
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then uh coach education will come back.
• 1:45:50
  SPEAKER_00: So the the goal for me is to to update coach education to the point that we can go back to the clubs because the beautiful thing about our coach education is you bring it to the club, so coaches don't have to spend time away and spend another weekend away and take vacation days away from family.
• 1:46:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, we come to the club, it's a six hour course, the all one day courses, like six, seven hours, and um that that's what we're gonna do again because there's a need for it, and they can find that at Millenstein Method.com.
• 1:46:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so it's www.millensteinmethod.com.
• 1:46:24
  SPEAKER_01: Correct, perfect.
• 1:46:25
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much.
• 1:46:27
  SPEAKER_01: I hate soccer.