Latest / Topeka Bible Church Audio Archive / August 8, 2021 | Good Question - Is God Disciplining Me?

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August 8, 2021 | Good Question - Is God Disciplining Me? · Topeka Bible Church Audio Archive

0:00
SPEAKER_00: Good morning.
0:02
SPEAKER_00: How are you today?
0:04
SPEAKER_00: Love that sprinkling rain outside, sign of God's blessing in the Bible.
0:11
SPEAKER_00: This morning we're continuing a series, this summer series called Good Question.
0:16
SPEAKER_00: Let's talk about it.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: It's the 10th, I think, this morning.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: I think we've got 14 total or 13 total.
0:24
SPEAKER_00: So this morning's question is how do I know if God is disciplining me?
0:30
SPEAKER_00: I remember the first time that I heard that question, uh, it was in the hospital.
0:35
SPEAKER_00: One of the privileges that I have is being invited to visit people in the hospital.
0:43
SPEAKER_00: Just about everyone who's in the hospital, of course, has mixed feelings.
0:48
SPEAKER_00: They want to be there because they know that's where they can get expert help.
0:51
SPEAKER_00: On the other hand, they don't want to be there because being sick is painful and they want to get well and get out.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: So anyway, I walk into this hospital room.
1:04
SPEAKER_00: Uh there's a guy I knew and liked, Christian man.
1:08
SPEAKER_00: And uh and he was in pain.
1:11
SPEAKER_00: You can see it on his face.
1:12
SPEAKER_00: First thing he said, before he even said hi, he looked up at me and he said, Jim, why is this happening?
1:18
SPEAKER_00: Do you think God is disciplining me for something?
1:22
SPEAKER_00: Uh that was a long time ago.
1:24
SPEAKER_00: Since then, I've heard that question uh numerous times.
1:28
SPEAKER_00: So earlier this year, I was not surprised to find it on a list online, a list online of the most common questions that Christians ask.
1:39
SPEAKER_00: So let me ask you, uh as a Christian, when you experience a suffering, a painful providence, you could say, like an illness or an accident or a broken marriage or a rebellious child or a financial hardship or some kind of uh persecution.
2:02
SPEAKER_00: Do you ever wonder if God is punishing you or disciplining you for some sin you've committed?
2:14
SPEAKER_00: Oh, you don't.
2:16
SPEAKER_00: I didn't really want to preach on this anyway.
2:19
SPEAKER_00: So I'm so glad you don't have that problem.
2:23
SPEAKER_00: So, anyway, let's let's talk about it.
2:26
SPEAKER_00: There is one famous passage, more than any other in the entire Bible, that speaks to this issue, that speaks about discipline.
2:32
SPEAKER_00: Uh it mentions the word discipline uh a dozen times.
2:35
SPEAKER_00: The passage is in Hebrews chapter 12, verses 5 through 11.
2:39
SPEAKER_00: Let's walk through it and I'll share with you just a short Bible study: ten principles, ten lessons that come out of these seven verses.
2:48
SPEAKER_00: All right.
2:49
SPEAKER_00: Uh and the background of this passage is that the original uh uh readers of this book, those who got this letter, uh, had been experiencing, it's clear they had been experiencing severe persecution, suffering for some time.
3:05
SPEAKER_00: Then they were tired, they were discouraged, and some of them were uh drifting away from the church and away from the Lord as a lot of people are today.
3:14
SPEAKER_00: They were confused, why would God allow such hardships?
3:18
SPEAKER_00: So uh after writing about doctrine about Christ and all that stuff, in the previous chapter, Hebrews 11, very famous chapter, you know, uh the writer of Hebrews, whoever it is, uh, lists person after person, saint after saint, character after character, example after example of how the life of faith has always been difficult, has always included tough times, even for the very best of saints, such as Abraham, Moses, and David.
3:52
SPEAKER_00: And then he comes to chapter 12, 5 through 11, our passage, and he's still writing about the same topic.
4:00
SPEAKER_00: And um he says, have you completely forgotten the exhortation that addresses you as sons?
4:07
SPEAKER_00: He's talking about a famous exhortation in the book of Proverbs, chapter 3.
4:14
SPEAKER_00: Um, my son, do not take light, do not take the Lord's discipline lightly, or lose heart when you are disciplined by him, for the Lord disciplines the one he loves, ones he loves, and he punishes every son he receives.
4:28
SPEAKER_00: Four lines, typical of the book of Proverbs, typical of poetry.
4:33
SPEAKER_00: Don't take the Lord's discipline lightly.
4:36
SPEAKER_00: Uh don't, don't, don't dismiss it when you're suffering.
4:40
SPEAKER_00: Don't go, I'm sure the Lord had nothing to it.
4:43
SPEAKER_00: Or on the other hand, the other uh imbalance is getting depressed, you know, and shutting down, losing heart when you're disciplined.
4:51
SPEAKER_00: And the third time he uses the word discipline is for the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and then parallel to that is that he punishes every son he receives.
4:59
SPEAKER_00: Some of you don't like seeing the word punishes there.
5:02
SPEAKER_00: Some of you have heard messages by pastors or read articles in which you've heard that the solution to this whole thing is that God only disciplines, he never punishes, he only punished Jesus on the cross for us, and so forth.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: And it uh there's a, you know, we'd love quick doors that answer every question just by using different words.
5:24
SPEAKER_00: We don't like the word punish today just like we don't like the word rod, you know, for discipline, physical discipline in Proverbs.
5:32
SPEAKER_00: We don't like those, and so we find ways of getting rid of them.
5:35
SPEAKER_00: And I listened to a whole message by a famous preacher this week in which he went on and on about how there's no punishment anymore.
5:41
SPEAKER_00: But I noticed that he jumped over this verse as he was reading this passage.
5:45
SPEAKER_00: Because the problem is the Bible does the Bible has no problem using the word punish, has no problem using the word rod, but but it just says, you know, when God punishes his children, he punishes them differently than when he punishes those who he's condemning, those who are not his children.
6:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, just the same way if you a bunch of kids in the neighborhood playing at your house, you know, you treat your children differently than the others, and the children treat you differently.
6:11
SPEAKER_00: When they get hurt, your children run to you, uh, neighbor's children run home, you know.
6:18
SPEAKER_00: And if they do something wrong, you don't usually discipline the neighbor's children.
6:23
SPEAKER_00: You know better than that.
6:24
SPEAKER_00: You discipline your own, okay?
6:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh and uh but anyway, so all I'm saying is this is didn't mean to get into this, okay?
6:32
SPEAKER_00: I've got too much of a sermon to preach.
6:34
SPEAKER_00: But but don't uh let's not make a huge deal out of punish and discipline because God feels free to use the word punish.
6:40
SPEAKER_00: And that's oftentimes what the person in the hospital or you are thinking when you're hurting and you're going, is God punishing me for some sin I've done?
6:47
SPEAKER_00: Is he disciplining me?
6:49
SPEAKER_00: And and and so let's just go with it.
6:51
SPEAKER_00: Okay, now some lessons we learned just from these first two verses are one, that discipline is proof of sonship.
6:58
SPEAKER_00: Isn't that astounding?
7:00
SPEAKER_00: Discipline is actually evidence or proof that you're his child.
7:04
SPEAKER_00: Number two, discipline is also evidence or proof of love.
7:09
SPEAKER_00: That a father, uh, a father disciplines his children because he loves them.
7:13
SPEAKER_00: He's supposed to, and that's why God disciplines so discipline, whatever it is, is evidence of love.
7:21
SPEAKER_00: All right?
7:22
SPEAKER_00: And third, that God's love, true love, is serious.
7:25
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't look the other way.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: Our love sometimes, uh even for our quote unquote loved ones, isn't really serious love.
7:33
SPEAKER_00: We let them get away with murder, and we just don't, you know, we see a close friend or even a child doing something that totally embarrasses them, uh, ruins their reputation.
7:44
SPEAKER_00: Everybody else in the room hates them or in the store, and yet we don't do anything.
7:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay, but God's love is serious, and true love is serious.
7:51
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't let our loved ones get away with things, it goes and tries to help and change them, and that's what God's love is like.
7:58
SPEAKER_00: It doesn't look the other way.
7:59
SPEAKER_00: And fourth, discipline is the word paidea, by the way, famous word in educational circles.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: It's an educational word in the Bible, too.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: Discipline may be verbal or physical.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: And the reason I say that, that's something we we know today in pedagogy, but it's also very clear in the Bible, it's clear in the book of Proverbs.
8:21
SPEAKER_00: The reason I say that is we need to understand what discipline is.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: I uh uh my friend Tony Evans, in his sermon on this passage, uh, took the verse.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: He was preaching King James, whom the Lord loveth, he chasteneth in this verse, and he said, he preaches it whom the Lord loveth, he spanketh.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: Which is clearly what kind of discipline?
8:40
SPEAKER_00: It's it's physical discipline, right?
8:43
SPEAKER_00: But by the way, he had no problem, it's astounding.
8:46
SPEAKER_00: He had no problem using the word spank in a sermon, and nobody screamed out that he was politically incorrect and sent him home.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, um, I need to talk to him about that.
8:54
SPEAKER_00: He needs to clean up.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: So um, whom the Lord loveth, he spanketh, right?
9:00
SPEAKER_00: And uh but that that's not the only way the Lord disciplined.
9:03
SPEAKER_00: Now, I I confess that I uh uh I I grew up in a large family, and my parents uh believed in that.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: Their discipline was very patriotic.
9:15
SPEAKER_00: Uh they laid down the stripes and we saw stars.
9:18
SPEAKER_00: My father was known, my father was actually famous uh in our circles in Portland, Oregon for being stern disciplinarian, meaning he provided the discipline and I provided the stern.
9:30
SPEAKER_00: But that's that was just the way uh we we grew up, and some of you grew up that way as well.
9:36
SPEAKER_00: But the Bible, book of Proverbs, especially clarifies there are two main kinds or types of discipline.
9:43
SPEAKER_00: Yes, there is the physical, but there's also the verbal.
9:46
SPEAKER_00: The rod and reproof give wisdom, but a child left to himself shames his mother.
9:53
SPEAKER_00: Proverbs 29, 15.
9:55
SPEAKER_00: Those are the two forms of discipline.
9:57
SPEAKER_00: And you can see that God, though he uses physical suffering as discipline, the Bible is very clear, he also uses words as discipline.
10:06
SPEAKER_00: He uses our friends to come and rebuke us, right?
10:09
SPEAKER_00: If our Christian friends, if we need.
10:11
SPEAKER_00: But of course, primarily he uses his own word.
10:14
SPEAKER_00: All scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching.
10:18
SPEAKER_00: And here we go.
10:19
SPEAKER_00: Reproof, correction, and training in righteousness.
10:24
SPEAKER_00: And that's why some of you who are really sensitive to the Lord walk out of here on a Sunday morning, out of your Sunday school class, out of this service or whatever else.
10:37
SPEAKER_00: And you're convicted by the Spirit, and you sense it and you make a desire to change because what happens?
10:44
SPEAKER_00: There's been no physical discipline here, but there has been verbal.
10:47
SPEAKER_00: You have heard the Lord through his spirit rebuke you for something that you have said, something that you have done, your lack of forgiveness to someone, and you've walked out and determined to do better.
10:58
SPEAKER_00: That's verbal discipline.
11:00
SPEAKER_00: All right?
11:01
SPEAKER_00: So Hebrews 12, 5, and 6 has already given us four valuable lessons or principles, and he continues, using again the word discipline in every sentence.
11:10
SPEAKER_00: Endure suffering, this is the first command, endure suffering as discipline.
11:15
SPEAKER_00: God is dealing with you as sons.
11:17
SPEAKER_00: So God proves his love, notice, by disciplining us.
11:22
SPEAKER_00: We prove our love for God by enduring it, by hanging out, by accepting it, by receiving it from him.
11:29
SPEAKER_00: Alright?
11:30
SPEAKER_00: So, for what son is there that a father does not discipline, he says.
11:39
SPEAKER_00: And we go, uh, there are a lot of sons whose fathers don't discipline her.
11:44
SPEAKER_00: Um what was it?
11:46
SPEAKER_00: Harry S.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: Truman said, My form of discipline is to find out what my son wants and then give it to him.
11:55
SPEAKER_00: And there are a lot of fathers today that don't discipline, but it was assumed back then, you know, father would discipline.
12:01
SPEAKER_00: And then he says, but if you were without discipline, which all receive back then, I guess, most did anyway, then you're illegitimate children and not sons, which leads to lessons six and seven.
12:14
SPEAKER_00: If God doesn't spank you, it's because you're not one of his kids.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: So, seven, if you have a pain-free life, you don't need to get disciplined, you need to get saved.
12:24
SPEAKER_00: I hope I'm not being too radical here.
12:27
SPEAKER_00: But it but this passage is rather clear, isn't it?
12:30
SPEAKER_00: It suddenly flips everything on its head.
12:32
SPEAKER_00: You're suffering, you're unhappy about it, you're saying is God disciplining me for something?
12:37
SPEAKER_00: How am I supposed to know what that is?
12:39
SPEAKER_00: Am I just supposed to guess at it?
12:41
SPEAKER_00: And God's answer is you're looking at this thing all wrong.
12:45
SPEAKER_00: I'm like a father, you're like my child.
12:48
SPEAKER_00: And since I love you, I discipline you all the time.
12:50
SPEAKER_00: I discipline you as often as I can.
12:54
SPEAKER_00: And therefore, you shouldn't be hoping for a pain-free life.
12:57
SPEAKER_00: That would be evidence of lack of love on my part.
13:00
SPEAKER_00: You should accept and receive what happens to you, recognizing that it may be a clear proof that you're my child and that I love you.
13:11
SPEAKER_00: Hebrews 12, 9, and 10, the next two verses.
13:13
SPEAKER_00: Furthermore, we had human fathers discipline us and we respected them.
13:19
SPEAKER_00: Shouldn't we submit even more to the Father of Lights and so forth?
13:24
SPEAKER_00: So now this is tough for some of you because your fathers, you would say, abused you, whether physically or in other ways, abused you.
13:36
SPEAKER_00: And so it's very difficult for you to hear and accept this idea, God's my father, his discipline is good, I easily submit to it, and to hear statements like you had a human father discipline, you respected them.
13:48
SPEAKER_00: Well, some of you didn't respect your human father.
13:51
SPEAKER_00: You've grown up learning that uh the reason you've struggled for years and finally gotten, you know, are getting some healing through that relationship.
14:00
SPEAKER_00: But but in the ideal world, you know, and in the world of uh three or four of us, uh 75% of us, you know, our fathers disciplined us, and we still respect them.
14:12
SPEAKER_00: And his argument is so shouldn't we submit even more to the father?
14:16
SPEAKER_00: For they, our fathers, our human fathers, disciplined us for a short time based upon what seemed good to them, which, as you know, a healthy percentage of the time was that it was all about them and their frustration and the fact that you had inconvenienced them when they were trying to watch the football game or whatever else, you know.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: But he, God, does it for our benefit, always for us.
14:45
SPEAKER_00: It's about us so that we can share his holiness.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: Lessons.
14:49
SPEAKER_00: Showing respect for God, right, is not whining about how Father is treating you.
14:56
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
14:56
SPEAKER_00: You respect your father, respect your heavenly father, show respect for him.
15:01
SPEAKER_00: Number nine, unlike your dad's discipline, your father's is always with you in mind.
15:07
SPEAKER_00: Always with you in mind.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes, as you know, you uh when you've disciplined your children, you know, it it actually has been more about your inconvenience rather than your child's long-term good.
15:20
SPEAKER_00: But father, father in heaven never makes that mistake.
15:24
SPEAKER_00: Finally, verse 11 no discipline seems enjoyable at the time, but painful.
15:29
SPEAKER_00: Later on, however, it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.
15:34
SPEAKER_00: Now, he's already said that he wants to share, God wants to discipline us so that we can share his character, so that we'll become more like him, or we could say more like his son.
15:47
SPEAKER_00: We'll become more righteous.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: So, so the point, the final point, sort of the summary, is that our father's discipline is always painful now, always painful now, always painful now.
15:57
SPEAKER_00: That's what it says.
15:58
SPEAKER_00: Always profitable, always profitable later.
16:01
SPEAKER_00: It yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who accept and endure.
16:07
SPEAKER_00: Hebrews 12, 5 through 11 gives us these ten principles or lessons about discipline, which help us begin to see more clearly in answer to our question: how can I know right now if God is disciplining me?
16:22
SPEAKER_00: Greg Rochell at Family Camp watching a video at one point said self-discipline is choosing what you want most over what you want now.
16:33
SPEAKER_00: Which is true, right?
16:35
SPEAKER_00: Well, I was thinking God's discipline, according to this passage, is giving you what you need most over what you want now.
16:44
SPEAKER_00: Because all of us want to have an easy life.
16:47
SPEAKER_00: We we want to be healthy, wealthy, and wise, and and have all our uh everybody love us, you know, and never get in car accidents or get COVID.
16:58
SPEAKER_00: But but God's discipline gives us what we need rather than what we always want.
17:05
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know, uh, did anybody else anybody else uh uh no but none of you are as old as I am, but I when I grew up in school, one of the main ways of discipline, the the one that was better than the next step of discipline was going to the principal's office where you had this long ch, you know.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: So, but repeatedly, sometimes, I remember from third to fifth grade, I knew the corner of the classroom well, right, Larry?
17:35
SPEAKER_00: I knew.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: Get in the corner.
17:37
SPEAKER_00: You know, you wouldn't because you were disrupting.
17:40
SPEAKER_00: You're you're making little catty comments as your fourth grade teacher was trying to say something, but you were twisting it, and people around you were laughing, and she knows it's you.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: Without even turning around, she goes, rolling, get to the corner.
17:51
SPEAKER_00: So um, so you go in the corner and you stand in the corner, and after a while you think she's forgotten you in the corner, and it's and it's full of pain.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Now, uh, but I love the story, and I I couldn't find it, but I remember Chuck Swindah once told the story about a grandparents who were raising their grandchildren because the parents weren't involved.
18:12
SPEAKER_00: And they and that was their that was their method of payment, uh uh one one of their main methods with their grandson of discipline, you know, and they hadn't gotten correct yet and learned that timeouts are the only thing you ought to do.
18:25
SPEAKER_00: But anyway, so they'd make him sit on a chair in the corner.
18:31
SPEAKER_00: And the grandmother, who was an artist, just felt such love and compassion for him as she was doing this, and and so one night, as he was in bed, she went and she painted that corner, she painted a beautiful picture, complicated, beautiful picture, so that from then on, when his discipline was standing in the corner, there was beauty there, and there was knowledge that his grandmother was doing this out of love.
19:00
SPEAKER_00: And that I think is the is the main point of this passage in Hebrews 12.
19:04
SPEAKER_00: Yes, you're suffering, but God's probably disciplining you far more than you know, because he's constantly trying to make us better.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: But there's love in the corner.
19:17
SPEAKER_00: There's love in the discipline, there's there's beauty in the discipline.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: So I I think that's Hebrews 12.
19:23
SPEAKER_00: Now, you know, uh I thought, you know what I would do in the remainder of the time, just give you three pieces of pastoral advice, okay?
19:32
SPEAKER_00: Just and I'll I'll not call them pastoral advice, I'll call them biblical advice, okay?
19:36
SPEAKER_00: Because that'll make it sound better and you'll listen harder.
19:39
SPEAKER_00: But these are three bits of what I think are biblical counsel, okay?
19:44
SPEAKER_00: And feel free to argue with me later.
19:46
SPEAKER_00: But uh and they fall into three categories don't limit the options, don't limit God, and don't limit yourself.
19:52
SPEAKER_00: And what I mean by don't limit the options is that when you're going through suffering, it's tempting to jump to conclusions.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: The reason I have cancer is I did that ten years ago.
20:11
SPEAKER_00: Reason I lost my job is is it has nothing to do with me.
20:17
SPEAKER_00: I'm innocent.
20:18
SPEAKER_00: It has everything to do with that evil boss, you know.
20:23
SPEAKER_00: And we limit the option, we think only one thing is happening.
20:27
SPEAKER_00: And and so, really quickly, I could share ten, but I'm gonna just quickly remind you that there are more options, discipline being one of them, but there are more options that we often think of.
20:41
SPEAKER_00: Okay, let me give you five, just five.
20:43
SPEAKER_00: Five reasons that we suffer.
20:44
SPEAKER_00: And the first is that's life.
20:47
SPEAKER_00: It's life in this world.
20:48
SPEAKER_00: We live in a fallen world, Adam and Eve sinned, the world's been broken.
20:52
SPEAKER_00: Romans 8 talks all about it.
20:53
SPEAKER_00: The world's crying out for the day when the new heavens and earth will come.
20:57
SPEAKER_00: And we live in a fallen world.
20:58
SPEAKER_00: We live in a damaged world, the world is damaged by sin, and life in a fallen world means that there is a virus that's circling the world today that there wouldn't be otherwise, and millions of people are getting sick and dying.
21:10
SPEAKER_00: Life in a fallen world means that that bad things happen, and it it's not because of sin.
21:16
SPEAKER_00: I mean, John chapter 9.
21:18
SPEAKER_00: Remember the the guy who was born blind, and the disciples go, what did he sin, or was it his parents, or whatever?
21:25
SPEAKER_00: Jesus' answer was no.
21:26
SPEAKER_00: Uh no, basically, bad things happen in a world that's broken by sin.
21:33
SPEAKER_00: So tragedy, you know, tragedies happen in childbirth.
21:37
SPEAKER_00: Tragedies happen uh as people are born blind, and life in this world means that awful things are going to happen.
21:43
SPEAKER_00: There are going to be car accidents, there's going to be sicknesses, there's going to be death.
21:48
SPEAKER_00: It's going to be all kinds of things like that.
21:53
SPEAKER_00: Um I was going to share something that I've forgotten.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: But it must not have been important.
22:03
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: C.
22:10
SPEAKER_00: S.
22:11
SPEAKER_00: Lewis, this is not funny.
22:12
SPEAKER_00: C.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: S.
22:13
SPEAKER_00: Lewis uh I remember wrote this book when his wife, Joy Davidman, uh died of cancer, young, younger than they expected.
22:21
SPEAKER_00: And he said he cried out to God, why, and so forth.
22:24
SPEAKER_00: And he said it was like God slammed the door shut and double bolted the door, refusing to answer him.
22:31
SPEAKER_00: A part of life in this fallen world is having your loved ones die before you're ready, and part of this world is also the isolation and the loneliness and the feeling of grief and loss that you have, which is why we have uh a grief share class.
22:47
SPEAKER_00: So uh my point is just don't always try to find the hidden message in every car accident or every unexpected thing that happens to you during the week, pondering why did that happen.
22:58
SPEAKER_00: It may just have happened because you live in a world of pain and brokenness.
23:03
SPEAKER_00: And by the way, of course, a subcategory of this is natural, natural consequences, because in a broken world, you and I are full of mistakes.
23:10
SPEAKER_00: We we're we're we're we're we you know I uh uh I go out to do some weed pulling and pruning every week.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: Property requires a lot of pulling, a lot of pruning.
23:23
SPEAKER_00: But I step on the rake, as I have done, and it flies up and hits me in the face.
23:30
SPEAKER_00: Then I load up my arms with tools and I can't see where I'm going, and I trip over the curb.
23:35
SPEAKER_00: And then because I forgot to wear gloves, at the end of uh pulling uh undergrowth, I have a rash from poison ivy.
23:43
SPEAKER_00: Those are natural consequences, they're called natural consequences, painful natural consequences of living in this world.
23:51
SPEAKER_00: And that's just the way it is, right?
23:53
SPEAKER_00: Twisted ankles, car accidents, broken relationships, much of our suffering in this world is due to our own fault, our own mistakes, and the fact that we live in a broken world.
24:03
SPEAKER_00: Second reason, and it has doesn't have anything to do with our sin.
24:06
SPEAKER_00: Secondly, uh uh is the way I'm I'm putting these in a little bit different way than you for.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: God is building leaders.
24:11
SPEAKER_00: The first command that he gave Adam was, I want you to rule.
24:14
SPEAKER_00: I want you to rule over this earth.
24:16
SPEAKER_00: And he said, in the future, Jesus said, you know, I'm gonna make you rulers in the new heavens and the new earth.
24:21
SPEAKER_00: I'm looking for leaders.
24:23
SPEAKER_00: I'm looking for people.
24:24
SPEAKER_00: So in this world, you're in you're in boot camp.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: You are in training.
24:27
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna send you through some tough times so that you can look at Romans 5.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: We rejoice in our sufferings, he says, knowing that suffering produces endurance and endurance produces character, and character produces hope, right?
24:39
SPEAKER_00: So this hasn't, this is not about sin.
24:42
SPEAKER_00: This is not about discipline.
24:43
SPEAKER_00: This is about training, this is about leadership training and soldier training and warrior training.
24:50
SPEAKER_00: And so we understand in some sufferings, this is the second option, that that that we're learning.
24:56
SPEAKER_00: God wants us to learn endurance.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: He wants to make us tougher and stronger and develop better character and and be more hopeful about the future.
25:03
SPEAKER_00: Amen?
25:04
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that that's that's something pastors say when they don't know what to say next.
25:09
SPEAKER_00: But um Oh, I listen, how about Jesus?
25:12
SPEAKER_00: So, so isn't it interesting that Jesus went through this one?
25:15
SPEAKER_00: Jesus absolutely sinless, right?
25:17
SPEAKER_00: But in Hebrews chapter 5, verse 8, uh, Jesus learned obedience through the things that he suffered.
25:25
SPEAKER_00: Remember that verse?
25:26
SPEAKER_00: Which makes no sense to us because hold on, how could Jesus learn anything?
25:30
SPEAKER_00: Well, the answer is Jesus grew up, and as he went through different events in his life, he went from stage to stage of learning and living out obedience to his heavenly father through the persecutions and the sufferings and the hardships that happened to him, having no place on which to lay his head, having his own brothers reject him, having people spit at him and so forth.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: He was enduring, he was learning endurance, he was he was growing in obedience.
25:55
SPEAKER_00: So, if Jesus has to go had to go through that, then of course you and I need to go through that.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: It has nothing to do with us sinning.
26:02
SPEAKER_00: That's another option for why you may be hurting right now.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
26:07
SPEAKER_00: Here's the third one.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: God is using sour ingredients to produce a sweet result.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: Okay?
26:14
SPEAKER_00: Did your child ever come up to you, look on the counter, and see a couple really gross, oozing black bananas and go, ooh, yuck?
26:22
SPEAKER_00: And then you say to him, Do you like my banana bread?
26:27
SPEAKER_00: And he goes, Oh yeah, mommy, that's the best.
26:30
SPEAKER_00: And you go, that's what these bananas are for.
26:34
SPEAKER_00: And in the Bible, it's very clear that God loves to use sour ingredients to produce a sweet result.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: What story most teaches that?
26:44
SPEAKER_00: It's the story, 13 chapter story of Joseph in the Old Testament.
26:49
SPEAKER_00: It was a sour thing that he grew up with his brothers hating him and that they plotted to kill him, that they threw him into a pit, that they sold him into slavery.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: It was a sour thing that he was uh that he was in Potiphar's house.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: He was tempted, and when he refused, he was lied about, and then he was thrown into prison for years.
27:09
SPEAKER_00: All of those things were sour, but at the end of his life, Joseph could say, you know what, you meant evil against me, but God meant it for good to bring about that to bring about that many people should be kept alive.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: He saved an entire nation, including his own family, from death, as they are today.
27:25
SPEAKER_00: So God uses, so none of those things in and of themselves that happened to him, the hatred of his brothers, the selling of him into slavery, the beatings, the imprisonment, the lying, none of that was good.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: And I'm not one of those people that thinks that good Christians should try to figure out why those things happen.
27:46
SPEAKER_00: You can become neurotic that way.
27:48
SPEAKER_00: I don't think God promises to tell us why bad things happen now.
27:54
SPEAKER_00: But we trust him because we know the New Testament uh the New Testament counterpart of the Joseph story is all things work together for good to those who love God.
28:05
SPEAKER_00: Those are called according to his purpose.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: So God uses sour ingredients to produce a sweet result.
28:11
SPEAKER_00: Bad things may be happening to you, not because of discipline or because of sin, but that God has this great purpose, he's gonna do something great, which you don't see right now.
28:19
SPEAKER_00: Number four is even more mystical.
28:22
SPEAKER_00: We're part of a cosmic conflict.
28:25
SPEAKER_00: Remember that story?
28:26
SPEAKER_00: The story of Job where God is in heaven and somehow there's this divine counsel and there's this uh there's this character, this adversary, and and he's always sparring with God.
28:38
SPEAKER_00: And God says, Have you considered my servant Job?
28:42
SPEAKER_00: And Satan says, Yeah, but he's a health and wealth guy.
28:45
SPEAKER_00: He serves you just because you know he's got help and wealth.
28:48
SPEAKER_00: Take that away, he'll he'll leave the faith, he'll leave you.
28:51
SPEAKER_00: And God says, no, he won't.
28:52
SPEAKER_00: Satan says, yes, he will.
28:55
SPEAKER_00: I'll make you a bet.
28:56
SPEAKER_00: And God says, Okay, you're gonna be wrong.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: You can do anything you want up to death.
29:03
SPEAKER_00: I'm gonna limit you here, but you can take away the health and wealth and so forth.
29:07
SPEAKER_00: And I'm gonna prove to you, and I'm gonna prove to all of heaven, and I'm gonna prove to earth for the next 5,000 years as they read this story, that you can actually love God and be faithful to me, even though you've lost everything, and that's exactly what happens.
29:22
SPEAKER_00: There's a cosmic conflict going on.
29:25
SPEAKER_00: Book of Job ends up with this message as it goes to Leviathan and everything.
29:29
SPEAKER_00: There's a cosmic conflict, a war of the worlds, a battle of the gods, and that has been going on since the dawn of time, and God's going to win it.
29:41
SPEAKER_00: But as part of that cosmic conflict, even now, you and I may be like Job called to center stage, and all the angels may be watching as you suffer to see how you respond.
29:51
SPEAKER_00: Frankly, I think that may be Johnny Erickson Tata's life, or that uh is it Nikki Vujisic or whatever from Australia with no arms and legs, you know.
30:01
SPEAKER_00: Uh, and if you don't know Johnny Erickson Tata, she uh uh became a paraplegic at age 17.
30:06
SPEAKER_00: I think in some ways they may be champions, Olympic champions of God in heaven.
30:12
SPEAKER_00: You may be able to point to them before all the demons and Satan and the angels and say, look at here are my champions, no matter what they go through, they stay true to me.
30:21
SPEAKER_00: And therefore, it may be that you're going through something as part of the divine conflict, the cosmic battle between God and Satan.
30:30
SPEAKER_00: You say, You're weirding me out, Jim, move on.
30:33
SPEAKER_00: Okay, so uh, but anyway, we do know there is gonna be a literal war in heaven in Revelation 12.
30:38
SPEAKER_00: So you're gonna see it one day, so I'm not all that weird.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
30:43
SPEAKER_00: Uh but five, here's the fifth one, okay.
30:45
SPEAKER_00: And this is the one that Hebrews 12 is about, and this is the one that I get asked about.
30:49
SPEAKER_00: Papa's disciplining his kids.
30:52
SPEAKER_00: Papa, our heavenly papa, Abba, Father, Abba is best translated as Papa.
30:59
SPEAKER_00: He's our Papa, and he's disciplining us, and he does it constantly.
31:03
SPEAKER_00: Hebrews 12, 5 through 11.
31:05
SPEAKER_00: David says, I used to wander off before you disciplined me, but now I closely follow your word.
31:13
SPEAKER_00: God disciplines us so we won't wander off.
31:16
SPEAKER_00: Preventive, so that he can correct us and move us back to the path.
31:20
SPEAKER_00: God does discipline us, and it's a sign of his love.
31:23
SPEAKER_00: So those are the five things, five options.
31:25
SPEAKER_00: Don't limit your options.
31:27
SPEAKER_00: Could just be life in this fallen world.
31:29
SPEAKER_00: Could be that God is building you into a better leader who's gonna rule in the new heavens and earth.
31:34
SPEAKER_00: Could be that he's just producing something amazing, some banana bread out of the dark bananas of your life.
31:40
SPEAKER_00: He could be that you're on stage as part of a cosmic conflict.
31:44
SPEAKER_00: Or fifth, it could be, yes, it could be that God is doing something personal for you to discipline you and make you more like his son Jesus.
31:54
SPEAKER_00: Right?
31:54
SPEAKER_00: Now, the second bit of these others will be short, okay?
31:58
SPEAKER_00: Is the second is don't limit the house, don't limit God.
32:02
SPEAKER_00: Don't limit God.
32:03
SPEAKER_00: And then interesting how we jump to judgment, we go, God's doing this or God's doing that.
32:09
SPEAKER_00: Why does it have to be either or?
32:13
SPEAKER_00: Why couldn't it be both?
32:15
SPEAKER_00: Why couldn't it be a half a dozen things?
32:17
SPEAKER_00: Don't you think God, the omniscient, the all-power, don't you think he can multitask?
32:21
SPEAKER_00: Donald Carson puts it this way: in any suffering or in any other event for that matter, God is doubtless doing many things, perhaps thousands of things, millions of things, even if we can only detect two or three.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: A 40-year-old woman is diagnosed with stage four cancer.
32:40
SPEAKER_00: Am I being disciplined for something?
32:43
SPEAKER_00: I don't know, maybe.
32:53
SPEAKER_00: I can think that perhaps God wants you to show the world.
33:02
SPEAKER_00: Show the church how you can stay faithful during awful suffering.
33:08
SPEAKER_00: That seems unfair.
33:11
SPEAKER_00: Maybe you have a son in his twenties who who's walking away from the faith, and this is God's way of shocking him back.
33:21
SPEAKER_00: And to realization that there are eternal matters that need to be considered, and maybe you have another child, maybe a daughter.
33:27
SPEAKER_00: And this will motivate her to become a great teacher of the faith.
33:34
SPEAKER_00: And she'll become another Beth Moore.
33:38
SPEAKER_00: Maybe what's happening is also that this is jolting your husband who's always been a little overly busy into realizing that he needs to spend more time at home.
33:49
SPEAKER_00: And and more than that, all of all of the other husbands whose wives are your friends as they see the importance of the fact they need to spend more time at home because they might lose their wives.
34:04
SPEAKER_00: And maybe it's also because at the funeral there are going to be people that you've prayed for for years who you die to have in heaven with you who are going to come to faith.
34:19
SPEAKER_00: But yes, maybe there's also a little discipline in it because as you lie there, you'll remember that there is that one person you've never forgiven.
34:31
SPEAKER_00: And you'll call them and they'll come to your bedside.
34:38
SPEAKER_00: And you'll forgive them, and it'll change their life.
34:44
SPEAKER_00: Don't limit God by saying it has to just be this or just be that.
34:48
SPEAKER_00: Isn't God perhaps doing a dozen things in your life at every moment?
34:54
SPEAKER_00: And discipline is almost always one of the options.
35:01
SPEAKER_00: And finally, don't limit your responses.
35:05
SPEAKER_00: Because there are so many options, wouldn't you want to ask, when you're going through a tough time, if God's disciplining me, what might it be for?
35:19
SPEAKER_00: Ask me.
35:21
SPEAKER_00: So this he asked me, uh this guy I told you about it, he asked me, you think God's disciplining me.
35:26
SPEAKER_00: I said, I said, I don't know.
35:29
SPEAKER_00: Do you do you f feel like maybe spirit's convicting you of something?
35:35
SPEAKER_00: I mean, is there something in your life that is you lying here, you in pain, you're thinking God may be disciplining me for uh no, no, he said.
35:49
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
35:50
SPEAKER_00: I said, you know, the best answer to find out if he's disciplining you for some sin is read your Bible.
35:57
SPEAKER_00: That's the place where you find out what you should be doing, where the Holy Spirit speaks to you through the word.
36:04
SPEAKER_00: But so you ask, well, what will I change?
36:06
SPEAKER_00: But then you also ask, well, what does God want to teach me through this as I'm becoming a better soldier, as I'm becoming a leader?
36:12
SPEAKER_00: Is he teaching me endurance?
36:13
SPEAKER_00: Does he want me to learn how to be tougher, stronger?
36:16
SPEAKER_00: And then what can I use to help others as a leader?
36:19
SPEAKER_00: What can I share with others?
36:21
SPEAKER_00: How can I improve others' lives?
36:23
SPEAKER_00: What should I be sharing with people at my bedside?
36:26
SPEAKER_00: One of the great values for that woman who has stage four cancer.
36:34
SPEAKER_00: Is it even though everybody says, well, I'd like to die really quickly in a car accident, it's a wonderful grace to know that you'll die this year, and to be able to prepare yourself for eternity, and then say words to your loved ones, last words that they'll never forget.
37:00
SPEAKER_00: What will I change?
37:02
SPEAKER_00: What will I learn?
37:04
SPEAKER_00: What will I use?
37:07
SPEAKER_00: Yes, God is disciplining you.
37:10
SPEAKER_00: I can guarantee you, if through this you are convicted, corrected, repentant, resolved to be more like Jesus, more humble, more godly, more forgiving, more biblical, then yes, one of the reasons God's taking you through this is because of discipline.
37:37
SPEAKER_00: And that's a way he has of saying, I love you.
37:45
SPEAKER_00: You're my child.
37:50
SPEAKER_00: Let's pray.
37:51
SPEAKER_00: Heavenly Father, we're we're two minds about this.
37:58
SPEAKER_00: We we naturally want to escape pain.
38:04
SPEAKER_00: And they told us that it's part of part of your love, part of uh us being your children and you being our dad.
38:16
SPEAKER_00: And so we ask that you'd make us strong, help us to endure, help us to receive and accept your correction, whether it comes out of the word this morning or whether it comes physically during the week.
38:32
SPEAKER_00: Because we really do, we really do, we really do want to become more like you, more like your son Jesus Christ, and we recognize that's your divine obsession, and so we make it ours in Jesus' name.
38:45
SPEAKER_00: Amen.
38:47
SPEAKER_00: Thanks for coming.