Latest / Buying Local Podcast / Episode 24: Andy Liporace and Joe Cerrone (Blue Flame and Cerrone Plumbing & HVAC)

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Episode 24: Andy Liporace and Joe Cerrone (Blue Flame and Cerrone Plumbing & HVAC) · Buying Local Podcast

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The superpower that every citizen has is the ability to
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control where they spend their time, money and attention by
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focusing. These on supporting local
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businesses who are having a profound impact on your friends,
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your family and your local community.
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So if you want to change the world, you can start with my
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local. Welcome everyone to buying local
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Glens Falls and Saratoga. We're actually doing a little
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double dip on this episode to put it out on both markets.
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Kind of a special episode today been trying for a few weeks here
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to put together and really want to thank our guests for coming
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in and helping us talk about the new heat pump laws.
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That's the subject that we're going to be talking about.
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He pump installations the requirements that are changing
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kind of getting some of the viewpoints of Joe Cerrone from
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Cerrone, plumbing and heating. Thanks, Joe for coming in.
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Absolutely, and Andy leprous, who owns blue flame, and they
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are a, your natural gas supplier, right?
1:01
No, we are propane. Only propane only?
1:03
Okay, our natural. I said natural gas.
1:05
I met propane. Sorry.
1:07
That's one of the silly things that I'll say during the Elsa.
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Yeah, close enough, right? So, so one of the main guys,
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both in and kind of talk about this new law on, I hate, I don't
1:17
want to call it. Hulk has law, but it is
1:19
Something that she's really pushed as far as the new green
1:21
energy initiatives that we have in New York state and across the
1:25
country. And you know, so I'm going to
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kind of give you my quick understanding of the law itself
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and then and please tell me where I go astray here.
1:34
So my understanding is that 2024 or maybe 20 25?
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Yeah, that's again, when I, when I was reading it go ahead and
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jump in there and it's still rumored.
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She's scheduled to pass her budget at the end of this month
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and which will dictate Tate, whether it makes it in or
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whether the legislators push it out till 28 or 30 and just what
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some of the speak about it. But yeah, that and that was when
2:03
I was, you know, doing some research getting ready for the
2:05
episode. That was one thing I couldn't
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really nail down. Some, some sources said 2024
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other said, 20 25, and that's just for the first part of it.
2:13
Which basically, if I understand correctly requires any new
2:17
construction residential construction, I don't know if
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this applies to commercial or not, I thought it was just for
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multi families to start and then trickle down into single.
2:27
Yep. So I heard that residential
2:29
homes. They wouldn't be putting Natural
2:30
gas meters in anymore and they'll be don't, you know
2:34
pushing down towards electric. Yeah.
2:36
What I read was single-family to multifamily up to three units
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that they would be requiring heat pump installations and
2:43
again depending on where you're reading the information from.
2:45
And some of this is from nyserda.
2:47
Some of this is from New York State's and and when and where
2:50
you can find information as a bit on the sparse side as well.
2:52
So and so my understanding is, it's a to kind of pop art
2:58
movement into this whole initiative, the first Art, being
3:01
new construction, only new builds.
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And then the second part would be that as of 2030 or whenever
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they end up doing the second part of this law is that you
3:12
basically would not be able to get anything other than a heat
3:15
pump in New York state. So, when it came to like Joe
3:17
repairing, my furnace, he would not be able to do that after
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2030. He would have to recommend that
3:24
I put in a heat pump or go without heat.
3:27
It's my husband. Yeah, yeah.
3:29
So So again, guys, I really appreciate you coming in the
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kind of give us your view, point of the whole situation kind of
3:36
educate our listeners myself. Definitely, I have so many
3:39
questions about this whole situation.
3:42
So, so let's just get into it. So you know, we started talking
3:47
before the show started before I hit the record button, which I
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always do and I never should do because all the good stuff comes
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out before you hit record. But one of the things that we
3:55
were talking about was How this is going to affect the business
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owners that are in the gas business.
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Whether, you know, now and what you said you're in propane, but
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then there's also, you know, they got the, the men and women
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out there that own heating oil businesses.
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And so, I'm just, you know, kind of fill us in on how this is
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going to affect your business if at all So as a whole as your
4:19
rights this code in its going to start diminishing our gal, we
4:26
can output essentially since a home will become more efficient.
4:31
He more airtight better insulation, better building
4:34
codes. So overall will start delivering
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less gal to new homes which we already see the past five or six
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years. And that's just because they're
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so efficient and the heating element, you know, whatever
4:50
they're using for, he is so efficient.
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I mean it's we are insulation used to be our nine, right?
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And now the building code for an attic or roof is like R38.
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Yeah. That's just a massive change of
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insulation. So as to become tired of the
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more efficient, they are in a less Castle use.
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You know, we've been seeing for a decade, you sure?
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Yeah, yeah. I mean going from heating oil
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to, then the natural gas and propane and, you know, it's
5:21
bound to happen sooner or later, right?
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Then homes are so efficient again.
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People, you know, the consumer the right.
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I mean, I know myself, you know, I like you Andy, but I would
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like my propane Bill to be smaller.
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I went to a bar, you, I like you very much as a customer then and
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for those of you listening at, you know, we live in an old
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farmhouse. House.
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That is not well, insulated and was built in the late 1700s
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early 1800s. So we can a lot of drafts and
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pretty much our furnaces run from mid to late October until
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about June, just to keep that place warm.
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Which shows you how far along the building codes have come
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where my average customer used to be eight to nine hundred
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gallons, for an average home is now in the 526.
6:06
Barely, a 700 gallons a year. Yeah, account for just God.
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I wish that was the case. Yeah, I mean, we've got 1,000
6:12
gallon tank for the main house and we felt that up two or three
6:15
times. And then we've got to, I think
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they're 80 gallons on the garage and hundred got 200.
6:22
Okay. And we fill those out.
6:23
We fill those up like quite a bit.
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We had to hard like every month. I feel about every six weeks
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man. It's crazy.
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So it's a lot of propane anyway and for single family residence.
6:35
That's a massive amount. Yeah.
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And so you know, to jump over to John this.
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Like we were talking like is a heat pump going to be able to
6:43
sustain a home. Like mine depends on the
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application. You know what, we're seeing that
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in the newer homes just because they are building them Tighter.
6:52
And more efficient, it's more realistic for a heat pump to be
6:56
able to take care of the heating load for you know something that
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is more well insulated and are tight you know heat pumps have
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been out for a long time. For those of you who don't know
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what a heat pump is he Biz. It's basically an air
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conditioning system that works in Reverse to create heat, it
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draws heat from the outside air to, you know, basically heat
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your home. So the colder it gets outside,
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the less efficient a heat pump is going to is going to perform.
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So you know, ductless heat pumps have been out for a long time
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and they're, you know, they're getting more and more efficient
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and now, you know, we're seeing more and more manufacturers.
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Going out with ducted heat pumps you know so you can actually
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hook duct work up to it, you know.
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And you know do basically a forced hot air heat pump you
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know for your home the you know the you know up to standard
7:52
house you know typical you know 1200 to 1800 square foot you
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know they used to be able you know they used to need like 80
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to 100 thousand BTUs just to heat the home and now we're
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seeing it's more towards you know, 50 and 60.
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You know, thousand BTUs to heat the home, where it sits in the
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reach of a heat pump. You know, these sickly we do,
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you know, a heating and cooling load on a house.
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And we try to see, you know where, you know, if you need
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supplemental heat besides a heat pump most applications, do you
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know? And you know, it's, you know,
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kind of opening up a can of worms as far as, you know, if
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you want to go all electric, you know?
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That's great. You know we're just been running
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into situations that you know you have a heat pump that will
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perform down to you know zero degrees.
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And then it'll start you know losing a little bit of his
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capacity and then you'll need supplemental heat to kick in and
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you know, if you need electric resistance, heaters, you know,
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for that, we've been running into the application where, you
9:00
know, they're they don't have enough amperage and their
9:03
breaker panels, you know, to cover that.
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Yeah, that was something we started to get into as well as
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and I wanted in a minute. We'll jump back to Andy cuz he
9:12
was doing a great breakdown of the cost analysis of what it
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costs you to heat your home with propane versus what it's going
9:19
to cost an electron electric but that is a so To kind of back up,
9:25
right? When we're looking at,
9:26
installing these heat pumps. Tell us what that because I
9:30
think you guys just went through some training for this or so and
9:32
yeah. So, National Grid is offering a
9:35
lot of rebates out right now. So they're depending on how much
9:39
of the home that were, you know, heating with the heat pump.
9:42
You know, they're offering anywhere from 500 to 5,000
9:46
dollars in rebates right now. Which is, which is kind of crazy
9:49
and something that we've never seen before.
9:51
Well, I mean not to interrupt your cut you off, but they got
9:55
to be really excited about this lot National Grid.
9:58
I mean, how You know, just delivery fees alone based on
10:02
what your electric usage is. I mean, there they stand to make
10:06
a disgusting amount of money from this law and there's no
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competitor. Like there's nobody else other
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than National Grid, like a very good captive, audience all the
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time, all the time, all the time.
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I built it margin. Yeah, I'm just, I'm
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flabbergasted by this whole thing.
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That we're essentially handling the entire States election.
10:29
You know, ability to heat their homes, power their homes,
10:31
everything over to one company and there is not even a chance
10:36
of any sort of competition whatsoever for someone to come
10:38
in out come in and be able to because National Grid lines
10:41
lines. They on the polls.
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Even if there is competition is only coming in on the supply
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side. Right, right.
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So you could choose your provider technically, sure.
10:50
But you have two bills. One from your supply company and
10:54
one from National granny. Yeah always So your savings is
11:00
maybe you can get a guaranteed rate for 123 years.
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Yeah. And that's it and that's it.
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And then at any point in time they can just change their
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delivery fees. I and so again and that's a
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hijack. What you're saying Joe?
11:14
But you talked about the National Grid and I just again
11:16
so amazed by everything with this laws doing and and one of
11:19
them is just handing the keys to the kingdom over the National
11:23
Grid folks like is the removal of consumer Choice.
11:26
Yeah. It's what I mean, it's what
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happens. It is so, so sorry before I
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interrupted their jaws. What was I saying?
11:35
I know I'm all fired up now but National grassland.
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Oh, yeah, the rebates for National Grid so there's the,
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you know, they're offering like I said, crazy rebates, anywhere
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from 500 to 5000 depending on how much the heat pump is
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heating? You know your home and you know
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how much it'll load is taken care of.
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You know it's we're just running into situations where the heat
11:56
pump you know? Like I said, it just as it gets
11:59
colder, it gets less efficient. So, you know, when it's super
12:01
cold out, it can't really cover the whole load of the house.
12:05
So you will need some sort of supplemental heat in most
12:08
applications that were that were looking at right now.
12:12
Smaller rooms and smaller Apartments heat pump can carry
12:16
the load and take care of it. No problem without supplemental
12:19
heat. It depends on how tight the
12:21
houses and you know, strictly the application.
12:24
So I mean, I guess, you know, I just again that you as you say,
12:31
you're going to need supplemental heat.
12:33
That's not electric driven or if it is electric.
12:36
Let's say you put extra space heaters or whatever.
12:38
Do you think? I mean you could do electric
12:41
baseboard heat for backup or like if it's a ducted system,
12:44
you know, there's the option of putting electric resistance
12:47
heaters as backup to the heat pump in that actually works
12:51
together with the heat pump. So they'll work, you know, at
12:54
the same time and You know, that can, you know, cover the load
12:57
depending on, you know, how much, you know, how big of a
13:01
panel you got and how much room you have in there, honestly.
13:03
So that's, that's getting added to my list of questions that I
13:06
have for the Governor's. We're being forced into a
13:11
situation to install heating systems that will not cover the
13:15
heat load for this part of the country.
13:17
We often have below zero temperatures, sometimes for
13:20
extended amounts of time in January and February this year,
13:24
we were lucky right that we were Get a mild year, but, you know,
13:28
essentially what's going to happen is you're gonna have to
13:30
pay for the installation which will come back around on the
13:33
cost of that. But we got to pay for the
13:35
installation of the heat pump and more than likely will have
13:38
to install additional heating sources that are electrically
13:42
driven according to the laws in some applications.
13:46
Yeah, depending on the size like right, you know this room you
13:50
know my farmhouse. Yeah your Farmhouse is that that
13:53
would be tough to eat with a heat pump we're screwed.
13:54
Yeah. I know that you could.
13:57
Yeah or it wouldn't be so oversized to meet your load.
14:00
It would be your cost. Would be a fifty thousand dollar
14:04
heat pump. Yeah.
14:05
So like, you know, you would need multiple heat pump systems
14:09
to cover the load, you can cover the load, you'll just you'll
14:13
need a lot of systems on these a lot of systems.
14:16
So we'll not only that. But you also have to don't
14:19
forget most of these ratings that they tell you about them,
14:22
45 degrees. Hey right?
14:25
So as you go though, Go to 0 but your BTU load that they can
14:29
handle drops off significant. So it's math.
14:33
Yep. So they're get, like I said,
14:35
they're getting better and better.
14:36
Like there's there's some heat pumps that, you know, will he
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down to negative 30 right now? Like they are getting better and
14:43
better? And, you know, say if it's, you
14:45
know, a you know, 40, you know, thousand BTU unit, it'll still,
14:51
you know, at -30 we're still seeing you know, that they're
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throwing off. Like still 85 percent of that.
14:58
So they're still throwing off like you know, a good 30,000 BTU
15:01
so it's not I mean, they're not, they're not bad systems, do you
15:05
know and it's for certain applications, you know it's it's
15:09
a smart move, I think so what you're that's you know.
15:12
So that's the thing right? Is that I also late back and
15:14
forth between like yeah you know I mean we want to be better for
15:17
the environment. We want to do things that are
15:18
good but the same time like is it?
15:21
You know, we talk about sustainability like is that
15:23
sustainable for the Adirondacks is Sustainable for this sole
15:28
Northeastern United States when we're doing a heating and
15:30
cooling or heating load, you know, for for a house, the
15:35
design temperature that we have to, you know, pull the load
15:39
against is negative 2. You know, that's that design
15:41
temperature. So when we do a heating
15:44
calculation for, you know, a room or a house where you know
15:48
figuring - to, you know, it's outside -2 and we do, you know,
15:53
an insulation value in everything.
15:56
Thing, and we see how many BTUs that space needs, you know, to
15:58
properly, heat it. And, you know, sometimes, you
16:02
know, the heat pump can take care of it.
16:04
Yeah, it's going to be interesting to see now.
16:06
And so in the I want to jump over to the cost comparison, the
16:09
cost analysis because I think this is important and I think
16:13
one of the big parts of this. And again, I say, as I oscillate
16:16
back and forth between this being a good thing and being a
16:18
bad thing, one of the things I see outside of National Grid
16:22
having the market cornered is that or having a monopoly?
16:26
Realistically speaking is The cost to not only put the systems
16:31
in which I understand they're not cheap.
16:33
And I think it's great that National Grid is offering
16:36
rebates and I think I believe nyserda is going to be offering
16:40
some rebates as well, you know, let's hope anyway.
16:45
But the cost of the system is going to be thousands of
16:47
dollars. I mean from the research that
16:48
I've done, you're not getting into a heat pump system for
16:51
under 5,000. And really, it's more like 8 or
16:54
10. Yeah, the IAA can vary, but like
16:58
I said, like, it depends on what we're doing, you know.
17:00
Yeah, you can have up to five thousand dollars in rebates,
17:03
right? And so that's great.
17:04
If your system only cost 5,000, but again, if you're a property
17:08
like ours, where you know, we're a farm right, you know, like
17:12
we're looking at a system that's going to be north of 50 thousand
17:17
dollars to be able to put that system in systems.
17:19
I should say, because it's multiple systems your house.
17:21
Yeah, yeah, I mean, you've been in my house. - yeah, it's
17:24
terrible. Oh, and so outside of the cost
17:27
of insulation, though, let's talk about the cost of use.
17:29
So any before we get started, you are doing a great comparison
17:33
of talking about what your gas cost would be in a current
17:38
market versus what the electric cost would be.
17:40
Can you kind of give us that break down again?
17:42
Yes, what I was saying earlier was for my average customer if
17:45
you take a 600-gallon home for propane use And you break it on
17:51
a per BTU basis, right? So we're bringing it down
17:54
because the sixth on a gal. Equal ax B to use which you need
17:59
to heat your current existing home.
18:03
One gallon of propane is ninety one thousand five hundred of
18:06
each use. A kilowatt hour is approximately
18:11
3,100 BTUs, right? So, it's raw meth.
18:15
So in one gallon of propane is twenty six kilowatt hours, okay?
18:21
So, you know, so if you take your 600 times here, 90 1500,
18:27
it's 15 million btu somewhere in there.
18:32
And then divide it up by your kilowatt hours and you get a
18:34
massive number. Right.
18:36
You know today's cost propane. Retail is around three dollars
18:40
and twenty-nine cents. So your average on one delivery,
18:45
if you got all six on a gal is about nineteen hundred dollars.
18:49
Now if you take just the delivery or just the supply
18:52
charge currently, which was on nicer, which is around 22 cents
18:58
per kilowatt hour. Hmm.
19:00
You're somewhere around twenty three hundred dollars.
19:02
First for the year, all in one lump sum not right.
19:06
Your average just all at once. So it's currently more expensive
19:11
plus there's no competitors for electricity, right?
19:15
So it could get even more expensive.
19:17
Well, it will if as demand goes up, there are too many things
19:21
that need to be changed currently in our electrical
19:23
grid, right? Because our grid is not even set
19:25
up to handle. All of this.
19:27
Is that fair. In from what I know and I don't
19:30
know much about the electric side.
19:32
Yeah that's not my specialty but math is pretty good, at math is
19:39
math man. Yeah, what?
19:41
Yeah what I've been running into you know with going back to the
19:44
electrical issue is in these older houses that have like 150
19:49
amp you know panel coming into their house and they need they
19:52
want to go all-electric. The panels are too small
19:56
honestly. Yeah dude to to do with The heat
19:59
pump and a have backup electric heat, and go all electric.
20:03
There's been several cases are ready where they just couldn't
20:06
do it because they don't, you know, they don't have enough
20:09
room in there panel. And I'm, we're adding another
20:12
panel onto the property right now because our 200-amp panels
20:16
too small for the things that we have going on there.
20:18
And I can tell you the costs at a 200 amp panel, is it's gross.
20:27
So, like, you know, you look at like, just Simple.
20:29
Let's say at that house. That's got that 150 amp panel,
20:31
right? And so they're going to be
20:33
putting in a heat pump system, that's let's just say it's eight
20:35
thousand dollars, right? From all the numbers I read on
20:39
this far as pricing for these things.
20:40
That that's a good ending on the application.
20:43
Yes. Right.
20:43
Good number to use. Right so so we've gone eight
20:46
thousand dollar heat pump. Now we've got I'll be generous
20:51
and say it's only going to cost them three thousand dollars for
20:53
that panel but I know the one that we're putting in is more
20:56
than that. So like let's just be generous,
20:58
though. I'd say it's 3,000 now, there
21:00
are 11,000 dollars, which I don't know that, there's any
21:03
rebates for that panel installation, not right?
21:07
And then, it's going to cost. What was the cost difference?
21:09
Almost a thousand dollars between per year per year,
21:13
right? So just in just in year one,
21:15
we've got I mean, mom, not so great at the math, but that
21:19
sounds like twelve or thirteen thousand dollars.
21:22
How long are you gonna stay there for 20 years?
21:24
Right? Because when is your payback,
21:26
realistically? Which people always like to put
21:29
doesn't sound like there is one not Monsieur there for 30 years.
21:32
Maybe your kids would take it over, my kids want nothing to do
21:37
with the farm. So, again, I'm just, I'm so
21:41
confused by all this. I mean, because what I hear is
21:44
that, From a monetary standpoint, none of this policy
21:49
is good for the consumer or am I wrong on that?
21:53
I mean, take the environment out of it.
21:55
I'm just saying from a money standpoint, which right now
21:58
we're in some you know, turbulent Financial Times.
22:02
So like I would recommend like any you know, any people that
22:06
have to replace their air conditioning system or their air
22:09
conditioning system goes, you know this year, I would put any
22:15
heat pump Keep your furnace, you know?
22:17
And then your heat pump. We can program it.
22:19
So the heat pump can take care of the load of your house and
22:22
then when there is a couple of degree, differential will have
22:25
do you know have the furnace kick in is makes the most sense
22:28
you know right now? Because we're still installing
22:32
more furnaces and heat pumps right now.
22:34
Yeah, you know I think that's a smart move.
22:36
It's the hyporheic. It's not all one way or yeah.
22:39
The other, right? If you want to add air
22:42
conditioning, want to take out that window unit, put it in
22:45
many, It to add the heat. Pump side is, maybe a couple
22:49
hundred bucks. Yeah, if you were just doing a
22:52
see, only you add the heat pump, it's fractions, right?
22:57
Of what it would be just to do it if you're going to do the
23:00
whole house. So that makes sense.
23:02
Your propane. Bill comes down your natural gas
23:04
bill, come down your electric bill creeps up slightly but not
23:08
enough to really probably notice right now and then when that
23:11
heat pump starts to get a little inefficient when it gets very
23:14
cold out you know it It's going to it's going to shut off and
23:17
your furnace is going to kick it.
23:19
And you know, in another question I had from a monetary
23:23
cost standpoint is what will let's say 10 years down the
23:28
road, right? Because that's really what we're
23:30
looking at right now. So 2025 we start to see this
23:34
really like you said earlier it's not really going to have a
23:36
big impact on your business immediately.
23:38
Right because it's not going to effect.
23:42
Propane usage. More than we already seeing
23:45
naturally in the in the market, right?
23:47
But ten years down the road, let's just say what now we've
23:49
got 60 or 70 percent of the homes on the market are now
23:52
using heat pumps as opposed to using propane.
23:55
Furnace has, what does it do? You know, obviously, like you
23:59
said, there's still going to be uses for propane, right?
24:03
They will see a higher percentage in 10 years, okay?
24:07
Think about it. I'm going to average number of
24:10
home. Yeah, what's our new Action.
24:13
The governor's, trying to push 800,000 new.
24:16
Well, five years, we don't see that growth in Europe.
24:20
More people are leaving the government.
24:21
Yeah, so I think that's about the number of people actually
24:24
left New York State last year was.
24:26
Yeah, 100,000. So, the new building is not that
24:30
goal. She setting it's nowhere near
24:32
close to it. So, in 10 years, two percent of
24:37
new homes with this will be smaller than you really what we
24:41
want to think. Think it is yeah.
24:43
Or the lofty goals are projecting is not there.
24:46
They're grossed out there. Yeah well that's another I keep
24:48
seeing that they want to be at 70 percent Renewables by 2020
24:53
2030. So that's another interesting
24:56
number. I mean, we're we do a lot of
25:00
service and we service systems that have been out there for 20
25:03
plus years. Yeah.
25:04
You know, that haven't broken yet and you know why swap it out
25:07
and replace it if it's still working.
25:09
So, you know, I don't see it happening right away.
25:12
Expect especially to existing houses because, you know, all
25:16
these houses is houses are sized for you know, you know, furnaces
25:21
and they have furnaces in them right now and that are going to
25:23
be out there for another 20 years and what you need going
25:27
forward. Again is the new building codes
25:29
for efficiency because you need that house to be tighter if you
25:34
want to do with electric because the the older he tosses are too
25:39
big. That the heat pumps can't keep
25:42
up. Up at low temperatures when you
25:44
want your heat. Yeah.
25:46
So so from a propane supply and demand standpoint really, not
25:52
going to see any effects from this for a long time.
25:56
We've been seeing it for the past five to eight years, right.
26:00
More people are doing many splits there, they're going to
26:03
hybrid route so their demand is coming down as they make
26:07
improvements to their house, okay?
26:09
So another 10 years will see a More drop-off.
26:14
But we'll still have some new users coming on.
26:16
You're just not using as much propane, but we have a large
26:20
share, that's old. So our Gallant will fall off,
26:24
but not not at a rapid rate that people want to say, it's going
26:29
to, I think in new construction, it's going to be a lot more
26:33
rapid because after a certain time they're going to say no
26:36
more natural gas meters, right? And then then there everyone has
26:40
to do, he pumps, you know, There is a lot of new construction up
26:43
here. No more natural gas meters.
26:45
But still propane usage, though. Interesting.
26:51
See, what? Which way that's going to shift
26:53
people if they're going to, you know?
26:55
Because again, I just I feel like I'm trying not to be biased
26:58
on this because I am against on some sighs.
27:01
I think it's a great idea to be more environment or mentally
27:04
friendly, moving away from fossil fuels, when we can and
27:08
when were able to so long as we have the technology, which
27:11
again, I'm not. Sure, that we do to be able to
27:14
move fully away from fossil fuels, especially in this part
27:17
of the country where we get so cold but I'm also not too.
27:21
I'm going to propane's horn but we are developing renewable
27:24
propane. It's on the market, they can be
27:27
bought, they are increasing capacity all over.
27:31
So in 10 years Today I could sell renewable program, huh?
27:37
I can take a certain percentage of my gal that I sell and bring
27:42
a renewable to your home. If that's, you know.
27:45
So, there are other aspects of renewable even within the fossil
27:49
fuel categories potential for electrification is interesting.
27:55
When you have an exhausted, all of your renewable stuff
27:59
renewable propane. Had not heard about that.
28:02
It should be. A decent size of the market and
28:06
5 to 10 years. I like that that's going to have
28:08
to be a topic for another show when I have to do some research
28:10
on that man. So if you're someone that's
28:13
listening to the show right now if I'm trying to I want to make
28:19
sure that we leave our listeners with some good information as
28:23
far as actionable items, right? So like if I'm a homeowner that
28:26
has a furnace, that is nearing end of life and I'm afraid of
28:31
the heat pump situation or the cost of the heat pump situation.
28:34
Because that's really, I think one of the biggest barriers
28:36
right now for your, your normal human in New York state is going
28:41
to be the cost, right? So if I'm worried about having
28:45
to drop 10 15 20 thousand dollars on the Pump system in
28:49
the next five years. Should I be doing something else
28:53
student? So one thing that ashlar grid
28:57
said in some of the trainings for the rebates is these rebates
29:00
won't be available forever. It's just going to be mandatory
29:04
at some point. So it's really application by
29:08
application. Depends on the house.
29:11
Depends how old it is and I would say, you know, we give
29:14
free estimates, you can weigh it out both ways.
29:18
You know, we can factor in the rebate and see your app, but
29:22
like, going forward, like the simplest thing to do, especially
29:27
if your air conditioning system breaks down and needs to be
29:30
replaced, you're putting, you know, set up, put an AC coil on
29:33
your furnace, you put a heat pump coil to a heat pump, you
29:36
know, outdoor unit. And you know, you're headed in
29:39
that direction. You get a nice rebate and, you
29:41
know, like I said, it doesn't necessarily mean it's going to
29:44
be more expensive because of the rebates, even though the
29:46
equipment is more expensive, And so basically what you're saying
29:50
Joe is give you a call and you'll help make that decision
29:54
make the right decision because we can, you know, our estimates
29:56
are free and we can weigh it out, both ways for them and give
29:59
them options, you know, to see what best suits their needs.
30:02
You know, because every house is is different in the system has
30:06
to work with the existing ductwork, you know and you know
30:10
that you have in the house. So you know it's it's
30:13
application my application. Okay?
30:15
And again is that something that People should wait or shouldn't
30:19
wait on like this is something they should start looking at.
30:21
Now I Mena, if it's not broke, don't fix it.
30:26
Kind of deal. Like your system is working
30:27
properly right now. I mean it doesn't make sense
30:30
just to swap it out for, you know, because you know the laws
30:33
are changing and several years. So I would you know if the
30:37
system is nearing the end of its life.
30:39
I'd say that'd be more the, you know, other people that that
30:43
need a step in that direction, right?
30:45
You know because systems, you know, lasts up to Twenty twenty
30:49
years. So it could, you know, you could
30:51
be stuck without being able to get parts for you know, gas
30:55
furnaces 20 years down the line, you know?
30:58
I'm not sure how that would go about.
30:59
Okay. All right.
31:01
And then Andy with the really curious about the renewable
31:05
stuff, but it I just never heard of renewable prompt and like,
31:09
I'm not my mind. I'm like, how do you doing
31:11
renewable propane leak. What someone, you know, if
31:15
someone is a propane diary, or if they have a system for
31:19
propane, and any words of wisdom that you would give them as far
31:22
as with the up-and-coming laws, or I really think it's
31:26
individually tailored for your home and your needs, and what
31:31
you want to do, you know, a lot of its finances.
31:35
Yeah, so if you know, if it's going to be cheaper one way,
31:40
everyone's gonna look at that option, I know.
31:44
There's no great advice for you that I really have.
31:49
Unfortunately, you know I would I say keep using your propane
31:52
but when you start to get regulated out of it it's hard to
31:56
keep them something, you know. I'm like Not great.
32:01
Wisdom. That's all right.
32:02
Well you've had plenty of great information so far so that you
32:05
know math is always your friend. Right right.
32:07
It doesn't work for you financially and economically
32:11
knowing what you end up with what we know today.
32:15
Well, that's I think everyone loves the idea of being more
32:17
environmentally responsible and being good stewards of the
32:21
planet, but at the same time, like it has to be doable.
32:26
Like there's a lot of families out there that are, you know,
32:29
Having trouble making ends meet and the current environment that
32:32
we are in and have been in and then to sit there and turn
32:35
around and say, oh, by the way, you know, you're going to be,
32:38
you need this big expensive system and using this system is
32:40
going to be your costs are going to go up but don't worry, it's
32:43
good for the environment. I think that's a tough pill to
32:45
swallow for a lot of people very much.
32:47
So so guys, I really appreciate you coming on the show and
32:51
helping to educate me. Hopefully, educate and
32:53
listeners. I know, I definitely take a lot
32:54
more away from this. I feel a little bit of I feel
32:57
better, guys. Well, thanks, Absolutely one
33:02
more time. Joe, if people want to get ahold
33:04
of her own plumbing and heating, where can they find you guys?
33:07
Yeah, we're located out of Queensbury.
33:09
You know, they can always give us a call and, you know, we'll,
33:13
we'll get them a free estimate. That's awesome.
33:15
And I obviously, you guys are Community partner with Glens
33:18
Falls today, which we greatly appreciate.
33:20
Also, you've been a client for years and a friend and you're
33:24
also our HVAC and plumbing company.
33:25
So they do a great job everybody.
33:27
So I'm not just saying thank you.
33:29
Welcome and Andy who is also our propane supplier over at the
33:33
house. Thank you.
33:35
And they want to get a hold of you or they have questions or
33:38
they're looking for a new propane supplier.
33:40
The best way to reach us is probably on the web.
33:43
We cover a great distance. We do sell a Vermont.
33:46
Almost Utica. Wow.
33:48
So our website is blue flame, gas, co.com.
33:53
That's amazing. Thanks again guys, appreciate it
33:56
and you're sure the superpower that Every citizen has is the
34:00
ability to control where they spend their time, money and
34:03
attention by focusing. These on supporting local
34:06
businesses who are having a profound impact on your friends,
34:09
your family and your local community.
34:11
So if you want to change the world, you can start with my
34:15
local. Every citizen has is the ability
34:00
to control where they spend their time, money and attention
34:04
by focusing. These on supporting local
34:06
businesses who are having a profound impact on your friends,
34:09
your family and your local community.
34:11
So if you want to change the world, you can start with my
34:15
local.