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Female Firsts: Lin Huiyin · Stuff Mom Never Told You

• 0:05
  Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stephan
• 0:07
  Speaker 1: Never Told You production of iHeartRadio. And it's time for
• 0:20
  Speaker 1: another edition of Female First, which means we are once
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: again joined by the wonderful, the magnificent, the fabulous Eve.
• 0:29
  Speaker 2: Welcome Eve, thank you, thank you.
• 0:31
  Speaker 3: Happy to be here and as always, happy for that
• 0:34
  Speaker 3: very grand introduction.
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: I like doing a grand introduction, and I feel like
• 0:40
  Speaker 1: today we are. We're coming in various energies. We've got
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: Samantha whose has sort of a tough, annoying morning.
• 0:52
  Speaker 4: Perhaps it's just one of those like human error days
• 0:56
  Speaker 4: where I'm mad at everything. It turns out it's my fault,
• 0:58
  Speaker 4: so I'm even madder because I can't make sense of things.
• 1:03
  Speaker 4: So it's it's a double whammy. But it's okay because
• 1:05
  Speaker 4: it's Annie's birthday that the day we're recording, So happy birthday.
• 1:08
  Speaker 3: Birthday, Annie, thank you, thank you, and I get to
• 1:12
  Speaker 3: talk with you all, even.
• 1:14
  Speaker 1: Though I just had a very fun conversation about the
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: kei we fruit and continents and how nice it is
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: to have days where you can do nothing.
• 1:26
  Speaker 2: It was lovely. So it's been a lovely start to
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: my birthday.
• 1:29
  Speaker 3: So what would you describe your energy ass Yeah, right now, Annie,
• 1:33
  Speaker 3: if hers is aggressively annoying.
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: Oh, it's it's the intersection of anxious and goofy, very
• 1:43
  Speaker 1: goofy energy. Because I've been up and I've been trying
• 1:46
  Speaker 1: to like get stuff done, and then I've been like,
• 1:48
  Speaker 1: but I could watch Star Wars Zone, So it's like
• 1:50
  Speaker 1: a weird it's like a work day. So trying to
• 1:57
  Speaker 1: balance that out. And I was telling you, I don't
• 1:58
  Speaker 1: get contacted by this many people often, and it's great,
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: like that's it's so nice to have people that care
• 2:06
  Speaker 1: about you or they like no know you and they
• 2:09
  Speaker 1: send you puns and gifts and all this stuff. But
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: it's also like every time I get a notification, I'm
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: such a anxious person. I'm like, something's as terrible as happened. Yeah,
• 2:20
  Speaker 1: So I feel like that that kind of intersection, that's
• 2:23
  Speaker 1: where that's where I am okay.
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: Solid place to be.
• 2:28
  Speaker 3: What about you, Eves, I am at once tired and also.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Pleasant.
• 2:39
  Speaker 3: I was trying to figure out a where for it
• 2:41
  Speaker 3: because like, I feel okay, but you know, I'm still
• 2:44
  Speaker 3: I'm a little there's like some tiredness sitting to me somewhere.
• 2:48
  Speaker 3: It's cool though, because I'm going to take a nap.
• 2:50
  Speaker 3: You know, then I think the people know that I'm
• 2:53
  Speaker 3: here for a nap.
• 2:54
  Speaker 2: So I love that.
• 2:55
  Speaker 1: I love it. I love it too. I love it
• 2:58
  Speaker 1: through We were just talking about you had so many
• 3:03
  Speaker 1: good quotes. We need to start writing gun quotes about
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: like your your Friday, and I was.
• 3:08
  Speaker 2: Like, don't take my Friday from me.
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't want it Friday to be by yours.
• 3:15
  Speaker 2: I love it.
• 3:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:17
  Speaker 3: Yeah, this Friday for me, I'm not doing anything, so
• 3:20
  Speaker 3: I need it for myself.
• 3:21
  Speaker 2: I need to be by myself. Mm hmm. And that's
• 3:24
  Speaker 2: how it's going to be nice.
• 3:27
  Speaker 1: Yes, that is nice.
• 3:28
  Speaker 2: It's important. It's very important.
• 3:31
  Speaker 1: Yes. Well thanks, it's always for taking the time to
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: join us. I have to say this story was fascinating,
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: but I am very eager for you to help me
• 3:40
  Speaker 1: understand it because it was like a lot going on
• 3:43
  Speaker 1: in this Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: There is.
• 3:45
  Speaker 3: So Today we're talking about Lean Hi Yeen and Lin
• 3:49
  Speaker 3: hy Yeen was an architect. She often you might see
• 3:52
  Speaker 3: her named Phyllis in certain sources, because she did go
• 3:57
  Speaker 3: by the name Phyllis at times English speaking company. She
• 4:02
  Speaker 3: was the first female architect in modern China, and she
• 4:07
  Speaker 3: and her husband Leong Shuchang, they created the first systematic
• 4:12
  Speaker 3: history of Chinese architecture. And her husband is the one
• 4:16
  Speaker 3: who's often highlighted in conversations about this period of architecture
• 4:20
  Speaker 3: because he's considered the father paternalism and patriarchy point of
• 4:28
  Speaker 3: modern architecture in China. But the two of them were married,
• 4:32
  Speaker 3: so their story is very interlinked, and I think the
• 4:34
  Speaker 3: complexity of their story has to do with that because
• 4:37
  Speaker 3: so many of their accomplishments were done together. And that's
• 4:41
  Speaker 3: not done in a way of detracting from Lean's legacy,
• 4:46
  Speaker 3: because hers is part of it. It's just that Leong
• 4:51
  Speaker 3: did a lot too, and a lot of their work
• 4:53
  Speaker 3: was together. So in times, in looking back at her
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: biography and the course of their history together, she was
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: not as recognized as he was as often as the case.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: But unlike other cases and other cases we see this
• 5:07
  Speaker 3: kind of story, It's like there is a man and
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  Speaker 3: the woman who did a lot of integral work, and
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  Speaker 3: whatever their discovery or accomplishment was, they weren't related. They
• 5:16
  Speaker 3: weren't partnered in any sort of romantic or way other
• 5:20
  Speaker 3: than their work. So the woman's work will get buried.
• 5:24
  Speaker 3: But in this case, it's just a matter of how
• 5:27
  Speaker 3: things work when it came to gender, who gets recognized
• 5:30
  Speaker 3: and who's doing the writing of the history, and he did. Actually,
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: they both had their own accomplishment, separately and together.
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  Speaker 2: So that is part of Lin Huyin's story.
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  Speaker 3: And her story goes back to the early nineteen hundreds
• 5:46
  Speaker 3: because she was born in June of nineteen oh four
• 5:50
  Speaker 3: in Honjo, China. Her father was Lin chog Mien. He
• 5:55
  Speaker 3: was a scholar, an activist and a politician. She didn't
• 5:58
  Speaker 3: see how much when she was a young child because
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: he was away overseas for a period, but her family
• 6:04
  Speaker 3: was well off and prominent, so that wasn't too big
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: of a deal for too long because she was able
• 6:09
  Speaker 3: to travel as well. She had access to a lot
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: of educational resources, and her father, being the prominent person
• 6:15
  Speaker 3: that he was and the person who was interested in
• 6:17
  Speaker 3: politics internationally and in China, had a lot of privilege
• 6:23
  Speaker 3: and resource. They were well resourced. So she went to
• 6:26
  Speaker 3: the Peihua Girls High School that was established by the
• 6:30
  Speaker 3: Church of England, and when her father was overseas, she
• 6:34
  Speaker 3: moved to Europe with him. When she was in high school,
• 6:37
  Speaker 3: and she went to Saint Mary's College in London. Her
• 6:40
  Speaker 3: father put a really strong emphasis on her education, so
• 6:43
  Speaker 3: he was all about her learning and not just learning
• 6:46
  Speaker 3: in the classroom, learning through the world, teaching her things
• 6:50
  Speaker 3: in that way. So she was very hands on and
• 6:53
  Speaker 3: working with him and him raising her up to think
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  Speaker 3: about her own education and what she was capable of
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  Speaker 3: in that way in England is often talked about in
• 7:03
  Speaker 3: her story. She had a brief romance with the Chinese
• 7:05
  Speaker 3: poet Hu Gimo that was around nineteen twenty to nineteen
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  Speaker 3: twenty two, and he was like seven years older than her,
• 7:13
  Speaker 3: so there's a whole kerfuffle, like a scandal basically around
• 7:17
  Speaker 3: the fact that he was married to someone already when
• 7:21
  Speaker 3: he was like ooh, like I'm really liking Lin Hui Yin,
• 7:25
  Speaker 3: and he ended up divorcing his first wife, supposedly because
• 7:30
  Speaker 3: he wanted to be with Lian, but that ended when
• 7:33
  Speaker 3: Lean went back to China. Her father was not having it.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: Her father was like, this man is married. This is
• 7:39
  Speaker 3: also not the man for you, because we already have.
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  Speaker 2: Someone in mind.
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  Speaker 3: And that man was the person who would end up
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  Speaker 3: becoming her husband, and that is Leang Sichang.
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  Speaker 4: So.
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  Speaker 3: In nineteen twenty four, Lean enrolled at the Universe of
• 8:00
  Speaker 3: Pennsylvania along with her to be husband Leong and his father,
• 8:05
  Speaker 3: was also a politician and a scholar, Leon chichaw So.
• 8:11
  Speaker 3: The curriculum at the University of Pennsylvania and its architecture
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  Speaker 3: program was based on the Acole de Bouzar in Paris.
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  Speaker 3: That was a school that was associated with a style
• 8:22
  Speaker 3: of architecture popular in France at the time. Leon got
• 8:27
  Speaker 3: a bachelor's there and later a master's degree in architecture.
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  Speaker 3: But Lean, on the other hand, she majored in fine
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  Speaker 3: arts because women couldn't enroll in the architectural program there
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  Speaker 3: at the time. That said, she skirted the rules and
• 8:43
  Speaker 3: found the loopholes as people who want to bend the
• 8:46
  Speaker 3: rules and are trying to find their way and things do.
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  Speaker 3: She took courses in architecture still and she taught architectural design,
• 8:53
  Speaker 3: so she was still able to get an education that
• 8:56
  Speaker 3: allowed her to learn about architecture and find a career
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  Speaker 3: pass in it. So she made good use of her
• 9:01
  Speaker 3: time there and she was invested in educating people in
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  Speaker 3: China and around the world about historic buildings in China,
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  Speaker 3: Lean said in a nineteen twenty five interview with the
• 9:14
  Speaker 3: Philadelphia Public Ledger, quote, I dream of the homes. I'm
• 9:18
  Speaker 3: going to build real homes with children and gardens, goldfish,
• 9:22
  Speaker 3: kittens and puppy dogs, Chinese spirit and modern strength.
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  Speaker 2: So you'll see a lot throughout the course.
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  Speaker 3: Of Lien and Leong's story that they were very invested
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  Speaker 3: in the preservation of Chinese buildings, Chinese structures and architecture
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  Speaker 3: and design, and including that as things were becoming more new,
• 9:43
  Speaker 3: there was a lot of emphasis on these international styles,
• 9:46
  Speaker 3: and they really wanted to make sure that they were
• 9:51
  Speaker 3: forefronting Chinese design and tradition at the same time that
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  Speaker 3: these new principles were coming in and co mingling with them.
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  Speaker 3: But Lean had this whole other track in her story
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  Speaker 3: as well.
• 10:03
  Speaker 2: I guess where you.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: Talked about all these different things going on in the story, Annie,
• 10:06
  Speaker 3: and one of those was also her writing and her
• 10:10
  Speaker 3: interest in other arts. But it all does make sense
• 10:15
  Speaker 3: because Lean herself from an early age had an interest
• 10:19
  Speaker 3: in the art side of things and also the technology
• 10:22
  Speaker 3: side of things, So then it makes sense that she
• 10:26
  Speaker 3: became interested in architecture, and through her travels she was
• 10:29
  Speaker 3: able to see in Europe all this different architecture when
• 10:32
  Speaker 3: she was young and gained an interest in it, and
• 10:34
  Speaker 3: so that translated to stage designs. She went to Yale
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: University to study stage design in nineteen twenty seven and
• 10:43
  Speaker 3: was able to be involved from that way where she
• 10:46
  Speaker 3: was still moving things around, interested in design and the
• 10:49
  Speaker 3: way things looked, in the way that sets looked.
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  Speaker 2: So that's what she went there for.
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  Speaker 3: And in nineteen twenty eight she married Leong Sachang in Canada.
• 10:59
  Speaker 3: They eventually had two children. So after the two of
• 11:03
  Speaker 3: them they got married, they went to visit several countries
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  Speaker 3: around Europe, and so they both had this interest in architecture,
• 11:11
  Speaker 3: so it was kind of a double thing. It was
• 11:13
  Speaker 3: a honeymoon for them, but it was also them getting
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  Speaker 3: to see a bunch of architectural design while they were there,
• 11:19
  Speaker 3: so they were seeing a lot of the things that
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: they had studied when they were in school. After their
• 11:24
  Speaker 3: time in Europe, they went back to China and along
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: with some other colleagues, they founded the Department of Architectural
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: Engineering at Northeastern University in Shanyanan. Leong and his colleagues
• 11:36
  Speaker 3: also soon formed a practice, with Lian being a kind
• 11:41
  Speaker 3: of informal partner. All the other colleagues who had begun
• 11:44
  Speaker 3: teaching there, who they had already known, who had come
• 11:47
  Speaker 3: over from the US that they had met, were men.
• 11:52
  Speaker 3: But obviously Lean was also still very involved in this,
• 11:57
  Speaker 3: so yeah, she was also a writer. She published poems,
• 12:00
  Speaker 3: short stories, and plays. And Lien and Leong were educated
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: in the BuzAr system, but in the early nineteen thirties
• 12:10
  Speaker 3: they began regularly exploring China looking for old wooden buildings,
• 12:18
  Speaker 3: and they became committed to modern architecture as well. According
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: to Harold Kalman in the article Chinese Spirit and Modern Strength,
• 12:27
  Speaker 3: Lean Sachang Lin huiin and Early Modernist Architecture in China,
• 12:32
  Speaker 3: Leong Quote was the more dedicated scholar, while Lien Quote
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: showed a greater enthusiasm for architectural design and was the
• 12:42
  Speaker 3: more creative of the two. The author also said in
• 12:47
  Speaker 3: that article that the couple's son Quote believes that the
• 12:52
  Speaker 3: majority of the buildings traditionally ascribed to Leon actually came
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: from the hand of Lien. That author also, and explaining
• 13:01
  Speaker 3: their work, that they didn't adhere to Western modernism, and
• 13:05
  Speaker 3: for them, modernism was about a return to order a
• 13:10
  Speaker 3: quote reconciliation of Chinese tradition and Western innovation that was
• 13:14
  Speaker 3: tempered by rational Boozar principles. So the two of them
• 13:21
  Speaker 3: were fusing those things together. And also the way that
• 13:25
  Speaker 3: they were working together really seemed to be in a
• 13:28
  Speaker 3: supplementary fashion, to where a lot of the history and
• 13:34
  Speaker 3: the way that things were attributed to them may have
• 13:38
  Speaker 3: made it seem like Leng was the one who was
• 13:41
  Speaker 3: more so responsible for the design, but it seemed like
• 13:44
  Speaker 3: Lian actually had a very integral hand in the design
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: of the works that they created together. So all the
• 13:53
  Speaker 3: while they're doing this architectural design together. By the early
• 13:57
  Speaker 3: nineteen thirties, Lien had also become well known in the
• 14:00
  Speaker 3: literary world as a poet, an essayist, and a short
• 14:04
  Speaker 3: story writer, and she was also gathering writers and other
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: intellectuals in these salons that she would have. It seemed
• 14:13
  Speaker 3: to be also another thing that she liked to do,
• 14:15
  Speaker 3: and she was a member of literary groups like the
• 14:17
  Speaker 3: Beijing School, which was a collection of modernist writers, and
• 14:21
  Speaker 3: in a literary society called the Crescent Moon Society. She
• 14:25
  Speaker 3: moved to Beijing in nineteen thirty and then Leon moved
• 14:29
  Speaker 3: there a year after she did. And around that same time,
• 14:32
  Speaker 3: in the early nineteen thirties, they met the American couple
• 14:35
  Speaker 3: Wilma and John Fairbank. I mentioned them because they became
• 14:39
  Speaker 3: pretty close friends and they corresponded with each other for
• 14:45
  Speaker 3: the rest of Lean's life, like for a really long time,
• 14:49
  Speaker 3: and so they were pretty close. And the work that
• 14:51
  Speaker 3: they did later to uncover some of their works and
• 14:56
  Speaker 3: share it with people was important in the preservation of
• 14:59
  Speaker 3: their li legacy too. But yeah, Lan and Lyon would
• 15:03
  Speaker 3: travel to these remote places. They would walk, they would
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: go buy mule, and they would go by rickshaw and
• 15:10
  Speaker 3: all these different modes of transportation and to get to
• 15:13
  Speaker 3: the places that they needed to get to because they
• 15:15
  Speaker 3: were so remote, they squeezed themselves into these dirty rooms
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: and potentially dangerous places.
• 15:21
  Speaker 2: They talked about things.
• 15:22
  Speaker 3: Like bedbugs and all these other hazards being in the
• 15:26
  Speaker 3: places they would go to to find and learn more
• 15:29
  Speaker 3: about Chinese architectures. One of their most notable discoveries happened
• 15:36
  Speaker 3: in nineteen thirty seven when they dated and cataloged Fogwans
• 15:42
  Speaker 3: or the Temple of Buddha's Light in shaun Sea Province
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: that was built in eight hundred and fifty seven CE,
• 15:49
  Speaker 3: so at the time it was known the oldest known
• 15:52
  Speaker 3: building in China, and since then, though older structures have
• 15:57
  Speaker 3: been found, it's still considered one of the oldest surviving
• 16:01
  Speaker 3: win in structures in China. So I just think about
• 16:04
  Speaker 3: them traveling to all these different places, it seems like
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: a pretty adventurous life. Not to say that adventure only
• 16:12
  Speaker 3: means like the fun kind of adventure, because war was
• 16:17
  Speaker 3: also part of their story. Japan invaded China in the
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: Second Sino Japanese War which started in nineteen thirty seven,
• 16:26
  Speaker 3: and that conflict drove them out of the big cities
• 16:29
  Speaker 3: like Beijing and Nanjing, and they ended up moving around
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: the country to smaller cities to escape the conflict. They
• 16:38
  Speaker 3: moved to a village after other places, but at a
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: certain point they moved to a village called li Jhuang
• 16:44
  Speaker 3: in southwest China. That was in nineteen forty and while
• 16:48
  Speaker 3: in that village, Lean designed the only home that they
• 16:52
  Speaker 3: ever built for themselves near Kumming, But in li Juang,
• 16:56
  Speaker 3: they didn't have the best experience there and they were
• 17:02
  Speaker 3: living near poverty. So a lot of the buildings that
• 17:07
  Speaker 3: have been attributed to Leong.
• 17:10
  Speaker 2: Solely.
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: Lien also had a hand in designing. One of the
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: buildings that she helped with is a railway station in
• 17:17
  Speaker 3: Julen that she designed in nineteen twenty eight, and also
• 17:22
  Speaker 3: a geology building and a women's dorm at Peking University.
• 17:27
  Speaker 3: She also co wrote the book A History of Chinese
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: Architecture with Leon. After the war in nineteen forty five,
• 17:35
  Speaker 3: Leong went to the US for work, while Lean stayed
• 17:38
  Speaker 3: in China with the rest of the family, and eventually
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: she and Leong began working at Qinghuan University in Beijing,
• 17:48
  Speaker 3: and they designed the national emblem of China as well
• 17:54
  Speaker 3: as the Monument to People's Heroes that sent Tianaman Square.
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: But they were at odds with the fact that the
• 18:02
  Speaker 3: regime wanted to tear down the old There was a
• 18:05
  Speaker 3: lot of demolition and tearing down of these old structures,
• 18:14
  Speaker 3: while Lean and Leon knew how important it was to
• 18:18
  Speaker 3: preserve old structures and tradition. So Lean ended up dying
• 18:26
  Speaker 3: of tuberculosis on April first, nineteen fifty five, when she
• 18:29
  Speaker 3: was just fifty one years old. Her niece Maya Len
• 18:34
  Speaker 3: designed the Vietnam Veterans Memorial in Washington later and Wilma
• 18:40
  Speaker 3: Fairbank and Lean Ju, who was Lean's second wife, put
• 18:43
  Speaker 3: together a book of their visual and written work called
• 18:47
  Speaker 3: A Pictorial History of Chinese Architecture, which was published in
• 18:51
  Speaker 3: nineteen eighty four, and there was also a CCTV documentary
• 18:57
  Speaker 3: about the couple's life their work that came out that
• 19:03
  Speaker 3: can be watched on YouTube now that goes into detail
• 19:06
  Speaker 3: about the context of the architecture, what it meant for
• 19:11
  Speaker 3: them to do this work that wasn't being done in
• 19:13
  Speaker 3: a lot of ways of preserving and finding Chinese architecture
• 19:18
  Speaker 3: at a time when these international standards and ideals were
• 19:24
  Speaker 3: being spread around the world, but also really taking hold
• 19:29
  Speaker 3: in China as well. That is the story of lin Huii.
• 19:43
  Speaker 2: I feel like a lot.
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: Of times one when we do these, we come out
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: and say this should be like this should be a
• 19:49
  Speaker 1: mini series, and I think it should be.
• 19:50
  Speaker 2: I think great.
• 19:52
  Speaker 1: But also I do love when people have these like
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: multifaceted interests because that totally makes sense, and you know,
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of times we mistakenly put
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: what we view as like maybe a more technical thing, like.
• 20:10
  Speaker 2: It's not creative, like it isn't related to art or
• 20:13
  Speaker 2: something like that.
• 20:14
  Speaker 1: I did that for a while when I first started
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: and I was editing, I thought I was gonna hate it.
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: So technically she can be really creative in how you
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: do something like that. There is creativity in that, and
• 20:24
  Speaker 1: so I love it that we got to see, We
• 20:28
  Speaker 1: got to see that she did those things, She did
• 20:30
  Speaker 1: all of these different things, and that you brought that
• 20:34
  Speaker 1: to us because that is a part of how she
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: was creating and how she was thinking.
• 20:39
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and they were all intermingled too, because she, you know,
• 20:44
  Speaker 3: her written work was also related to her architectural work
• 20:47
  Speaker 3: and the things that were happening in her life, so
• 20:50
  Speaker 3: it wasn't like they were two distinctly separate things. Her
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: writing and obviously her the stage design that she was
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: learning about on the drama side, and then also the buildings.
• 21:01
  Speaker 3: Also just in general thinking about architecture as an artistic form,
• 21:07
  Speaker 3: it is all those things that we were just talking
• 21:09
  Speaker 3: about happen in structures and thinking about her being involved
• 21:13
  Speaker 3: in designing a building for a dormitory where students are
• 21:15
  Speaker 3: creating and able to come to these places and learn
• 21:19
  Speaker 3: in the ways that she did. It is also I
• 21:21
  Speaker 3: think pretty like cool to think about yeah.
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: And I before this, when sam Anthem was having her
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: tough time, we were talking about like the human nature
• 21:32
  Speaker 1: of you know, struggling over something and wanting to break something.
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: I had to take a set design class and an architecture.
• 21:40
  Speaker 2: Cost and there were just so many things you have to.
• 21:44
  Speaker 1: Think about that I was like, of course, of course
• 21:47
  Speaker 1: I should think about that, but I've never had to.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: And I was so, yeah, I gotta get these angles, right,
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: I gotta think about those. I gotta think about this.
• 21:56
  Speaker 1: So it is, and you're right, it's fun to think
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: about it in that way that she was creative, but
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: she's also allowing for people to come to spaces to
• 22:07
  Speaker 1: be creative by making these things and making them well.
• 22:13
  Speaker 1: But also one of my big the things that I
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: said at the top, when I was very excited for
• 22:17
  Speaker 1: you to come and elucidate things, is that I did
• 22:22
  Speaker 1: get confused because her husband, in some sources I would
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: read it made it sound like he did the whole thing,
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: and then yes, so I just got really like, way, wait,
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: And that's the importance of you know, people who were
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: doing the work and writing the history and doing it
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: well and doing it giving people the accolades they deserve
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: and the story telling the story in a way that
• 22:52
  Speaker 1: it gives them what they deserve. Because I really I
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: got so confused. I was like, wait, what, Yeah.
• 23:01
  Speaker 3: That in some instances to it seems like it was
• 23:04
  Speaker 3: a matter of what women could even have be attributed
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: to them. So it was a matter of what society
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: deemed acceptable, and it wasn't just a nefarious neglect of
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: attributing things to her. It was like, well, we can't
• 23:21
  Speaker 3: say you're a partner in this operation. You're a woman,
• 23:26
  Speaker 3: this agreements friend to me, so you know, we can't
• 23:30
  Speaker 3: say that, but you know she was.
• 23:34
  Speaker 2: And I think over.
• 23:35
  Speaker 3: Time our understanding of that through the discovery and uncovering
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: of their work, through people like the Fairbanks and their
• 23:46
  Speaker 3: children and their children's children and nieces and things like
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: that to be able to talk about it, and the
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: work of other scholars and researchers to understand how much
• 23:56
  Speaker 3: of a hand Lean actually did have in it, even
• 23:59
  Speaker 3: though her name may have been purposely left off of
• 24:03
  Speaker 3: documentation and record keeping because of the standards of the day.
• 24:09
  Speaker 3: So I think that's being rectified in real time.
• 24:12
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and that's wonderful to see you, but it's also
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: kind of fascinating. Like I wonder if you, you know,
• 24:19
  Speaker 1: have the eye for it, how you can be like,
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: even if her name is not on it, you're like, no,
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: she she was behind us or something like that. But yeah,
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: I also think it's a great reminder of both the
• 24:29
  Speaker 1: importance of context and always wondering about your sources, just never.
• 24:34
  Speaker 2: Taking things for granted. It's always a good remind yea.
• 24:39
  Speaker 4: So she now called them mother of architects. As we
• 24:42
  Speaker 4: have the father, we should have the mother.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe do you think we should do that, Samantha, Shit, we.
• 24:49
  Speaker 4: Call her the mother something?
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: The parents?
• 24:51
  Speaker 4: Can we just call them.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Parents like that? The parents of modern architect sure in China.
• 25:01
  Speaker 4: Chinese are Yeah, And it's so funny. We actually talked
• 25:03
  Speaker 4: about the niece and because I was like, this name
• 25:05
  Speaker 4: sounds familiar, why am I like? And then I was like, oh, yeah,
• 25:09
  Speaker 4: we briefly mentioned.
• 25:10
  Speaker 3: Her, yeah, bab yeah yeah, so she followed in the footsteps.
• 25:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, and her niece's work is awesome, Like you start
• 25:17
  Speaker 4: looking at the context and then the love like cross
• 25:20
  Speaker 4: cultural love and activism that they both yeah shared, It
• 25:23
  Speaker 4: is kind of it's nice to see.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that just keeps going exactly yeah.
• 25:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. That did also add to my confusion though, because
• 25:31
  Speaker 1: I was like, wait, a lot of people were talking
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: about this niece, just trying to get to this story,
• 25:36
  Speaker 1: what's going on? But no, it's what's really cool. So
• 25:40
  Speaker 1: thank you Eaves as always for illuminating us and bringing
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: this to us and just hanging out. It's always sad
• 25:46
  Speaker 1: to like to see you. You're welcome, Yes, always get
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: to be here. Yes, I look forward to next time.
• 25:54
  Speaker 1: But in the meantime, where can the good listeners find you?
• 25:57
  Speaker 3: You can find me on Instagram at not apollog. You
• 26:01
  Speaker 3: can also just go to my website, which is Eve's
• 26:03
  Speaker 3: jeffcot dot com. That's spelled y v E s j
• 26:08
  Speaker 3: E F F C O A t dot com and
• 26:11
  Speaker 3: you can get to all the other things from there.
• 26:13
  Speaker 3: You could also hear me on many previous episodes of
• 26:16
  Speaker 3: Sminty on femail first talking about other women in history.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Who had long and storied lives.
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: Yes, well, I hope you get your nap and you
• 26:28
  Speaker 1: have your Friday.
• 26:29
  Speaker 2: Thank you. Yes, we're in your corner.
• 26:33
  Speaker 1: And listeners, if you'd like to contact us, you can
• 26:36
  Speaker 1: Our email is stuff Media Mom Stuff at iHeartMedia dot com.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: You can find us on Twitter at most Stuff podcast,
• 26:41
  Speaker 1: or on Instagram and TikTok at Stuff.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: I've Never told you.
• 26:44
  Speaker 1: We have a tea public store and we have a book.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: You can get it Stuff You should read books dot com.
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: Thanks as always to our super producer Christina, our executive
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: producer Maya, and our contributor Joey.
• 26:53
  Speaker 2: Thank you and.
• 26:54
  Speaker 1: Thanks to you for listening. Steffan never told you use
• 26:56
  Speaker 1: a protection by Heart Radio. For more podcast from my
• 26:58
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• 27:00
  Speaker 1: podcast wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H