Latest / Recovering Out Loud / Two Cops Ended His 32-Year Addiction : I Used Daily in a Motel For 5 Months

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Two Cops Ended His 32-Year Addiction : I Used Daily in a Motel For 5 Months · Recovering Out Loud

0:18
Steven, yes. Thanks for coming down, man.
0:20
I appreciate it. Thank you for inviting.
0:22
Thank you for the invitation. I want to say this off the top
0:24
for people that don't don't know, this is the power of
0:29
recovery and helping somebody else.
0:31
So I met you in a treatment center that I was in.
0:37
You came in doing an alumni meeting and you came back to
0:40
carry the message and continue to do what was done to you,
0:45
right. And so the first time I saw you
0:48
come in the first, this is the usually the first thing I notice
0:50
about people that are in recovery and have been in
0:52
recovery and, and have that sort of look about them is that, that
0:58
twinkle in, in their eyes. And when you're.
1:00
So when I relapsed after 7 1/2 years, I saw you guys walking
1:05
through the door. You just the first thing I
1:06
thought was, wow, look at these. These guys are happy for one.
1:09
They're happy to be here. Yeah.
1:10
This and this is when you came back, right?
1:12
Yeah. This is when I came back and I
1:13
was in that rehab. I'm like, I'm a piece of shit.
1:15
How did I end up here? I see you guys walk in week
1:18
after week and it reminds me of, Oh my God, that's I used to look
1:21
like I, I remember that feeling of just being happy to live
1:25
life. And I hadn't had that for a
1:27
while. And so you came in with that,
1:29
that sparkle in your eye. You had recovery in you.
1:32
You were talking about recovery and I could tell how passionate
1:34
and how much it meant to you. I just want to say thank you for
1:37
that. And I've, I've told you this
1:38
before and you know, but that that's what we need to do here
1:41
because that's how that helped me in the beginning.
1:43
Remember that I could get back there and that I wasn't a piece
1:46
of shit. I wasn't done.
1:47
I wasn't. I could get back there.
1:51
We we talked about this before you and I sat down.
1:54
We kind of touched on it. This is what was done for me and
1:59
how you just expressed how you saw the twinkling and eyes and
2:02
you saw like people who seemed seemed happy, seemed to have a
2:06
calm, seemed to have some surrounding.
2:08
I saw the same thing when I was in your shoes 6 1/2 years ago.
2:13
People walked in. I was skeptical, but they had
2:16
they were, there was just something.
2:17
There was just something and I and I want and, and, and it made
2:20
me feel feel a part of something.
2:22
So I, I know what it's like, man.
2:23
And this is what we do. We give back, right?
2:26
Yeah, without expectation either.
2:28
It's like I'm just going to show up.
2:29
I'm going to tell my story. If some if it helps somebody,
2:32
great. That's the goal.
2:33
But if it doesn't, I'll try it again next week.
2:36
Yeah, yeah. And, and, and look, I got that
2:38
place was right around the corner from home, right.
2:40
So like for me, every, it was, it was Wednesday nights, every
2:44
Wednesday I'm going home, I'm going back to treatment, right.
2:47
I'm going back to treatment. And if somebody's there and,
2:49
and, and I make a connection, great.
2:50
If not, it's a good remember one for me too.
2:53
So it it was self-serving almost in a way, if you know what I
2:55
mean. Like if, if so, if it helps
2:56
somebody, great, but if not, that's OK.
2:58
Yeah, yeah. So tell me usually like to start
3:02
off the podcast with what paint a picture for everybody what
3:06
your last day of using looked like?
3:10
Oh boy, the last day. So it's a I'll give you the date
3:17
Friday, December the 14th of 2019.
3:20
I come to, you know what I mean when I say come to wake up,
3:25
right? Wake up.
3:28
And I think I'm pretty sure it's about 9:00 AM, but I have no
3:33
idea what what day it is. I have no idea what time it is.
3:35
And I'm in a hotel room and I've been in this hotel room for five
3:39
months in isolation. Got.
3:42
Goosebumps right now exactly, I remember that.
3:45
Yeah, you've heard me talk about this before.
3:46
I'm sitting in this hotel room and, and prior to that last day,
3:50
it was Groundhog Day, day after day after day after day.
3:54
And I'd, I'd accepted that I was never going to leave here.
3:58
And there was no sadness. There was no poor me because I
4:01
was just numb the whole time at this point when I was when I was
4:04
awake. And, and you know what you hear
4:09
these, these these terminologies like hopelessness, despair,
4:18
terror, bewilderment, things like that.
4:21
Those phases are, are, are those are phases in those moments of
4:24
clarity. But but that day are that that
4:26
last day you specifically asked about coming to and and hitting
4:32
it right, hitting it, getting high, getting high, thinking
4:37
it's just another day in the five months.
4:39
And that last day there was a knock on the doors, 2 police
4:44
officers and I had no idea that it was about to end.
4:49
That was that last day, man. It was it was Groundhog Day
4:51
interrupted by a couple of police officers do doing AI
4:57
thought it was a Wellness check. It turned out to be a form, too.
5:02
No, What's that? A Form 2 is issued by a justice
5:06
of the peace. They sign off and it it
5:11
recognizes or it, it allows the police to, to, to find the
5:15
individual, take away their rights for 72 hours because
5:19
they're considered a threat to their own well-being.
5:22
But a judge has to be convinced to sign that.
5:24
And that was my mother's doing. So they served me the Form 2.
5:29
I'm high, I'm trying to read this and, and I'm trying to
5:32
manipulate too, right? I'm, I got, I got 2 cops at the
5:34
door to the hotel room. It's, it's, it's all garbage
5:36
behind me and I'm high and I'm thinking I'm going to get busted
5:39
because there's paraphernalia everywhere.
5:41
They're like, we got a form too. And I'm like, OK, let me read
5:43
this thing. But I'm just sketching out in my
5:45
hand. I'm just like, how do, how do I
5:46
get these guys out of here? And how do I get back in there
5:48
to hit the pipe? And then, and then we laugh
5:52
tonight. All I'm thinking is I'm going to
5:54
get back here soon. I'm going to get back here soon.
5:56
But that was it. That was the last day, man.
5:58
They took you with them. So what?
6:00
Does that look like you go what happens after that and you were
6:03
doing stimulants just just to be clear here like at this point?
6:06
I was doing smoking crack cocaine, smoking crack cocaine
6:10
freebase in it in the hotel room had my set up there.
6:15
So what does it look like? They, they hand me the form too.
6:17
They say they want to come in, help me get my clothes.
6:19
And I'm thinking, man, they're going to find the bag and I'm
6:22
and I'm cooked. And they looked right at it and
6:24
they didn't even say a thing. And I was, I was kind of freak.
6:26
I, I look back in retrospect and I realized these, these, these
6:29
guys, I don't know if angel's the right word, but, but they,
6:33
they picked the right people. Like I could tell that these
6:35
officers, they, it seemed to me they had experience with people
6:39
who are sick because they treated me with kindness,
6:41
compassion, they were gentle. I was scared just because they
6:45
were cops, but they, they did not do anything to make me feel
6:48
afraid, whether it was their behavior or anything like that.
6:51
They were like, hey man, let's just come with us.
6:52
We're just going to take you to the hospital for an evaluation.
6:56
So I grabbed, I grabbed a backpack.
6:59
It was December and I'd been in the hotel room since July.
7:02
So all I had was a little backpack.
7:03
I was wearing a hoodie AT shirt. I had socks on underwear.
7:06
I'd been wearing the same thing for five months.
7:08
So like there were holes in it soiled.
7:10
It was. And I thought, OK, I'll just go
7:13
to I'll go, I'll go do what I got to do and, and, and I can
7:17
weasel my way out of this and get back to the room.
7:19
Never happened. That was it.
7:22
So that form 2 essentially stated that I was a threat to
7:25
myself. I go to the hospital, I'm under
7:29
psychiatric evaluation. So I go through a process where
7:31
it's an intake nurse, another nurse, a psychotherapist,
7:38
another healthcare professional. So like, 3 or, you know, it's
7:41
still a bit of a blurb, but there were three or four people
7:43
who analyzed me from 11:00 AM starting at about 11:00 AM, And
7:49
by 6:00 PM they said, yeah, we're keeping you overnight.
7:51
Yeah. And I was pissed all right,
7:53
because I thought I thought it was going to weasel my way out
7:55
of that. And you're there all day not
7:58
using, right? So you're like jonesing and
8:01
sketching out and all these emotions are going through your
8:03
mind. And in the hotel room when the
8:05
cops came, so there's the two beds, and between the beds is
8:11
the night table. You ever seen Mentos?
8:15
Yeah, there's mints. So I got the perfect Mentos
8:18
cooked rock. And then I want to, I want to
8:21
hear the knock. I stick it in the drawer and the
8:25
whole time, like you just said, I'm jonesing and I'm sitting in
8:28
the hospital. You don't you know what's on my
8:29
mind that Mentos looks like I'm like I, I, I know where it is.
8:35
I can vision it, right? That's I'm obsessing and I don't
8:38
even know it right. I'm just got to get back, got to
8:40
get back, got to get back, but that that was it, man, that was
8:46
it. And.
8:47
Then so from there you got did you go to treatment right away
8:50
or how did, what did that look like?
8:55
You know, before, before I, about two weeks before they
9:01
knocked on that door and I told you I was in there for five
9:03
months. There was a moment where, you
9:08
know, the hopelessness, despair and all of that stuff.
9:11
I would have these, I would have these sober moments.
9:13
And I'm like, I can't believe, I can't believe I'm in this
9:17
position because just three years early, I'm travelling the
9:22
world. I got a small business,
9:23
everything's great. My relationships are amazing
9:26
with my friends and my family. So I think, and I'm sitting
9:30
here, I'm sitting in that hotel room and I and I say to myself,
9:33
please make this stop. Please make this stop.
9:36
And I don't know, you know, I look back again, a lot of this
9:39
is looking back. I don't know what made me say
9:44
that. I don't know who I was talking
9:45
to. It was a fleeting moment.
9:47
And then I just went back to getting high.
9:48
Well, two weeks later, these guys knock on the door and, and
9:56
they take me to the hospital. And after I told you, you know,
9:59
they kept me for a little while and I fell asleep on the Gurney,
10:02
I figured they're going to keep me overnight.
10:04
I had no idea how this form 2 had been issued.
10:08
And then they tapped me on the shoulder, one of the nurses, and
10:10
they said on the other side of that door is your mother and I.
10:16
And I kind of freaked out, all right, cause 'cause I love my
10:19
mom and, and our relationship is never, ever, like it's been all
10:24
a great, a great relationship my entire life.
10:26
And they said she's on the other side of that door.
10:28
Should we let her in? And I said no, I blurted it out
10:34
and they said, well, you want us to tell her to leave?
10:36
And I'm like, no, because I was caught off guard, right?
10:39
And, and I'm like, my mind, my mind's racing, my mind's racing.
10:43
I know now that if I had to said yes right away, it means the
10:46
game's over. And I thought about that moment.
10:48
I was on the bed going, please make this stop.
10:50
And here's my chance. And I said, let her in.
10:54
So you ask the question, what happened?
10:56
She walks in. We hadn't seen each other in
11:00
five months. I hadn't shaved, I hadn't
11:01
showered, I hadn't brushed my teeth.
11:03
Probably looked like a Neanderthal at that point.
11:06
I saw the photos. It kind of did.
11:09
And she walked over and in behind her within 5 minutes
11:13
walks by two high school friends, my best friend Scott,
11:16
since I was 16 years old or 14 years old, my high school friend
11:19
Shawna. And I'm, I'm still high, right?
11:22
And it's Saturday and I'm thinking to myself, this is what
11:23
a coincidence? Everybody's showing up, right?
11:29
I would, I think you figured it out, right?
11:30
They, they had, they had coordinated in an effort to find
11:33
me and to and to and, and, and to get me help.
11:35
So they said, listen, if we love you.
11:38
I was so humiliated and embarrassed.
11:40
I was in tears and there and, and, and Shawn is like grabbing
11:42
my face and she's like, I don't want to hear you cry.
11:44
We're going to fix you up. And my best friend Scott, he's
11:47
like, hey, man, you want to go for a smoke?
11:48
I'm like, yeah. And my mom's chilling out a
11:51
little bit now because she's finally seeing me, but she's
11:53
still in tears. And, and and they're like, OK,
11:56
if you want help, we're going to help you.
11:59
And the nurse comes over and says, you know, it's a 72 hour
12:05
form too. They get to keep take me up my
12:06
rights away for three days. But they said, we're going to
12:09
let you leave if you have a plan.
12:12
And my mother leans in and goes, we have a plan.
12:16
And I said, what is that? And the nurse goes, what is
12:18
that? And they said we're taking them
12:19
to rehab. And she looks at me.
12:20
She says, is that OK? I said, yeah, that's OK.
12:23
I didn't even question it at that point because I had my
12:25
family with me. When I say my family, I mean
12:27
Scott Schoenhart and my mom. So like, so like there was this
12:31
instant, everything is going to be OK Kind of feel it's kind of
12:36
weird in the moment because you know, I'm high, I'm freaked out,
12:41
but I'm also going into withdrawal.
12:44
And now I've got my family here and my friends here saying we're
12:46
going to get you help. Like everything seemed to be
12:47
moving so fast. But, but because of the
12:50
relationships I've had with everybody, I just knew
12:52
everything's, I just, I had this feeling everything's going to be
12:54
OK If I just, if I just do what my friends and my family tell me
12:57
because I know they care about me.
12:59
And they took me to rehab at about by the time I got to
13:02
rehab, it was 1:00 in the morning and, and, and we're in
13:08
hospital clothes and it's December, it's December 15th
13:10
now. All right, it's cold.
13:13
It's it's cold. Your ass is peeking out and
13:16
you're. Just ass is hanging out.
13:18
I got these socks. They took my gold necklace away.
13:21
They took they took my jewelry away.
13:23
They took everything away, my watch.
13:26
And I'd never been through anything like this before too,
13:29
right? So it's like just this on this
13:32
uncertainty. What's going to happen?
13:36
Where am I going? I'm going to rehab.
13:41
I'm 46 years old. I'm going to rehab.
13:46
Fuck. How did I get?
13:48
Here Yeah yeah, yeah You know what I think that's exactly what
13:51
it was it's like. And all of that all of that
13:55
frustration and and like bewilderment.
13:58
How did this happen, man? But I got Mom sitting beside me
14:03
and I got Scott sitting beside me and I got Shona there and I'm
14:06
so it, it, it was it, it was like so many crazy emotions
14:09
going on at the same time. You, I love what you said there.
14:12
You pretty much summed up all of recovery to me anyways, which is
14:17
I don't know what's going to happen next.
14:18
This, this sort of faith that just has to happen for us.
14:24
I'm going to, I'm going to trust that this is going to work out
14:29
because I don't see any other way on my own.
14:31
So I'm going to listen to somebody else for a change and
14:35
I'm going to jump. It is, it's a leap of faith, but
14:39
something that deep down inside of me is just telling me that
14:42
it's going to be OK. I don't know that it's going to
14:45
be perfect. It's not going to, I don't know
14:47
if it's going to work, but it's, I'm going to be OK.
14:50
And so that, that leap like that right there is the crux of
14:56
recovery. I, I still do that today.
14:58
I don't want to go to this recovery thing.
15:00
I don't want to go to this meeting.
15:01
I don't want to help this person, but I'm going to do it
15:04
anyways because I know I'm going to be OK and I know I need to do
15:08
that thing. So you use, you use the, you use
15:10
the the three words leap of faith.
15:14
I've lost track of how many times I've either said that out
15:17
loud or thought about it. And I think about it and when I
15:20
and when I and when I more often it's a thought and it's, it's
15:24
just and it and like you said, it's something within saying
15:27
it's the right thing to do. It might be the uncomfortable
15:29
thing to do, but my, but my, my gut is saying it's the right
15:34
thing to do. That's that thing that I always
15:35
ignored before because it wasn't self-serving for for 46 years.
15:39
Or I'd or I'd listen to it if if I if sparingly.
15:42
Yeah. When it was.
15:43
Convenient, yeah, when it when it served my immediate needs and
15:45
wants right. But but that term, that term you
15:48
just use leap of faith. I can look back now over 6 1/2
15:52
years and and and say how many times have I taken a leap of
15:54
faith? I've lost track.
15:58
I've done things now not, not, you know, I use the, I use this,
16:02
this analogy of to get from point A to point BI, always
16:08
needed to see the straight line and know what that what, what's
16:11
going to happen in that path. If I'm willing to to walk that
16:13
path now, it's like point A is is where I'm at right now.
16:19
Point B is where I want to be. I don't know how, I don't know
16:23
the path, but I'm going to take a leap of faith.
16:25
And that leap of faith is usually because I'm following
16:28
somebody else's direction. I'm trusting in in people who
16:35
seem to seem to have how you described at the beginning of
16:39
all of this, the spark in their eye, a calm.
16:43
Serenity. A genuine desire to help others
16:50
and, and it's not necessarily expressed in their words, but
16:52
it's, it's, it's a vibe. It's a vibe 100%.
16:56
It's a body language. It's a feeling when I'm around
16:59
those people, I feel safer. I feel calm.
17:02
It's like taking a benzo when I'm around certain people,
17:04
right? Like there's, there's pillars in
17:06
my recovery today, men that I just, I want what they have and
17:11
what they have is not cars. It's not a the, the, the job,
17:15
the money, the income, the, the house.
17:17
It's things just seem to like roll off of them.
17:21
So let so let me ask you a question, though I've shared
17:24
this with people who sometimes that will ask, will ask a
17:27
question or, or when I see that I think that somebody has
17:30
something to give and they don't even know it, I'll say, I'll
17:34
say, I'll say something along the lines of you have this thing
17:37
about you and when you are in the room, others feel better.
17:41
You may not know the impact you have on others.
17:44
You may not know how you are perceived.
17:46
Have you ever been in a situation where sometimes
17:48
there's just somebody in the room and you just feel better
17:51
and they have no idea? They have no idea unless you
17:55
tell them. Absolutely it it happens when I
17:57
go to the recovery meetings. I I walk in and I'm having a
18:00
loud day happens all the time. I'm having AI don't want to do
18:04
this. I'm not.
18:05
I have to do. I'm in a have to mood.
18:07
You, you know those have to I have to do this.
18:10
I have to instead of a get to I I get to do recovery, I get to
18:14
show up, I get to be sober. What a blessing.
18:16
I'm in a have to mood and I have to sit in traffic on the way.
18:20
Bah Bah Bah, whatever the thing. And then I show up and I'm like,
18:24
wow, I get that relief that alcohol and drugs used to give
18:27
me. Except this time it's real and
18:28
it lasts and it's, it has depth and weight to it.
18:31
So absolutely. That environment you spoke
18:33
about, I, I can feel what you just talked about because,
18:37
because I'll, I'll walk into those same, those same recovery
18:41
meetings and, and there'll be certain people, not all.
18:46
In fact, it's it's, it's a small amount, it's a handful, but
18:51
they'll walk in and just something like, I'm glad they're
18:54
here. Oh, it's good to see.
18:55
You or they smile at you, yeah. And say hey, Steven, Yeah, yeah.
18:59
People know my name. Yeah, that was a that was a,
19:02
that was a that was a big one. People remember my name here and
19:05
they care about how I'm doing. Yeah, yeah.
19:09
How many times you spend, you know, out using a trap house bar
19:12
where people don't give a shit. No, right.
19:15
You know, you talked in in the beginning of this, you talked
19:17
about how how we met at a treatment center through an
19:20
alumni program. And, and when I was in the
19:24
treatment center as a client and alumni members were coming, I
19:29
remember I thought they were paid actors because because it
19:33
was, it was not a free treatment.
19:36
It wasn't, it wasn't. It was a private facility.
19:39
And I'm fortunate that my family had the resources, extremely
19:43
fortunate. So I knew that there was a it
19:46
was a pretty penny to go there. So when I was new and I knew
19:49
nothing about recovery. And they said, listen on, on on
19:51
this night, alumni members are going to come in and talk to
19:54
you. In my head, I'm like these paid
19:55
actors, man. They're going to come in here
19:56
and they're going to wave their finger in my face.
19:58
And you got say you got to do this and you got to do that.
20:01
And I'll never forget they they came up and they just said, hi,
20:04
my name is so. And so what's your name?
20:06
And I said my name is Steven. And they said nice to meet you
20:09
and they would just walk away or they just just like they didn't,
20:12
they didn't wave their finger in my face.
20:13
And further to your point, they came back the next week and and
20:18
now I got this attraction to them, but I still don't trust
20:20
them. And they came up to me and they
20:22
said, your name's Steven, right? And that moment, like you said,
20:25
they remembered my name. They remembered my name.
20:28
And and when you're at your lowest point, something so small
20:30
can mean so much. Yeah.
20:32
That felt good. That felt good.
20:34
That felt good. It felt good.
20:36
And that. And that comes back to that
20:37
thing like, you know what? Everything's going to be OK.
20:40
Everything's going to be OK. And I'm not alone.
20:42
I'm not alone. So we you talked about how did I
20:45
get here? Let's go back a bit.
20:47
How did you walk me through the progression of your illness,
20:50
your disease? How did it start and how did you
20:53
end up in that motel room? OK, I'm going to condense 32
20:57
years of drinking and drugging. I'm going to try.
20:59
Give us the highlights. Yeah, yeah.
21:02
The highlights, OK, I, I see, I, I see, I see what alcohol, you
21:07
know, again, so much of this is in retrospect.
21:09
I see what drugs and alcohol did for me in the mean.
21:12
I hear, I hear people talk about all the time, it's like a
21:14
pressure relief valve, right? Just and, and, and once that
21:21
pressure relief valve has been released, now I can dance, now I
21:25
can talk. The mind's quiet and I don't
21:30
even know all of this stuff, but that happened for, for decade,
21:34
for like 20 / 20 years. So when you, you know that, that
21:39
progression, it also it, it, it starts with, with, with, you
21:44
know what? I know that I can find relief
21:47
every day just just by, just by having a drink.
21:51
And it's all I thought about every day.
21:52
Even when I'm working every day, I'm thinking at 5:00, man, when
21:55
the day's done, I'm going to have a couple of beers, maybe
21:58
smoke a joint, you know, ten years later, you know, we got a
22:03
got a little baggy, have a couple lines.
22:09
It the progression was, was, was, was for me, seems so long
22:13
because I hear so many stories about how it's quick alcoholism
22:17
and, and addiction. It was slowly, slowly, slowly
22:22
reeling me in, but it had me here for the longest time and,
22:25
and, and it's like I was just doing this my whole life.
22:28
Just keep my chin above water and just trying to put on this
22:33
mask of like car, women, money, property, shoes, stuff and never
22:42
never ever finding any kind of like long term happiness.
22:47
So all I'm thinking about is drinking for decade, for 20
22:51
years, trying to, to find something to fill this
22:54
emptiness. This photo, Anthony, I used to
22:56
ask myself, I used to have this question with my mom and my
22:58
brother when things were good. I'm like, what's the point,
23:01
right? What's the point?
23:02
You know what I mean when I say that?
23:04
What's the point? What's, why am I here?
23:09
What, what, what's, what's my legacy?
23:11
What's my purpose? Where am I going to find
23:12
fulfilment? And, and to come back to your
23:17
question, like what, what this progression?
23:19
I'm searching. I'm searching for something
23:21
because this thing just won't shut off.
23:23
I can't find purpose. I can't find happiness.
23:25
I can't find serenity. But when I have a drink, all of
23:27
that stuff goes away. And then, and then two years
23:32
before that hotel room incident, I'm drinking every day.
23:37
But I'm going to work every day. I'm drinking every day, but I'm
23:41
playing golf. I'm drinking every day, but I'm
23:44
going on vacations. I'm drinking every day, but I'm
23:46
showing up the birthday parties. I'm showing up the family
23:48
events. I'm showing up the Christmas.
23:50
I'm showing up the birthday dinners, Christmas dinners,
23:52
birthdays like I'm, I'm, I'm meeting what I perceive to be my
23:57
responsibilities and, and, and, and fulfilling my part of
24:00
relationships. But this void, man, this void, I
24:05
can't fill it. And then and then in 2016, it's
24:07
like, you know what, man, I'm just going to go on a little bit
24:08
of a Bender. Christmas is coming.
24:12
I just got back from vacation. I'll just, you know, I'm
24:17
self-employed at this time and I got lots of money in the bank.
24:19
I got no debt, got property. The business is doing OK.
24:23
I can afford to just take like a, you know, a six week just hit
24:26
it man for six weeks when it's Christmas and New Year's is
24:29
done, I'll go back to work. That day never came.
24:33
That's when this, this, this inability to stop happened, this
24:42
inability to put it down, this inability that 1:00 AM, I'm
24:45
going to close the bag. This inability at 2:00 PM, I'm
24:48
going to or, or sorry, 2:00 AM, I'm going to, I'm going to close
24:50
the bottle and go to work tomorrow.
24:53
I, I, I couldn't put it down. And for three years I went
24:58
through that, that phase of, you know, that, that knot, you're
25:02
that knot, Oh, oh, I'm in some serious trouble.
25:05
And in that three years, that would eventually lead to that
25:09
point where it's like, man, I can't imagine continuing like
25:13
this, but I can't imagine stopping that dilemma, that big
25:17
dilemma, right? So that it took a long time.
25:22
You know, I told you when I was in my teens, it, it got me, but
25:25
it took 20, it took 25 to 30 more years before it finally
25:30
pulled me under. And if not for that knock on the
25:36
door and the lead up to it, you know, I asked, I asked my
25:40
mother. I said to my mom.
25:41
I said, how did you get a judge to sign a form too, right?
25:46
The form too is that form that says I'm a threat to myself
25:49
because I never said to you I was going to harm myself.
25:53
And she says to me, she says it was 1 mother talking to another
25:56
mother. The judge she spoke to when she
26:00
got that appointment to meet with a justice of the peace, she
26:05
told me how she said to that judge, do you have children?
26:11
And she said that when she saw the judge's name on the on the
26:16
desk, she wanted to be respectful and say, your honor,
26:20
your honor. But in this moment, she was
26:22
desperate to save her son. So she's dressed the judge by
26:25
the judge's name and said, do you have children?
26:30
So. Wow.
26:32
Things things worked. Things worked out behind the
26:36
scenes without me even knowing. I mean, talk about divine
26:38
intervention, man. Like, what are the chances in
26:41
that moment, you know, that that links up and who to your point,
26:45
who knows where you'd be today if if that moment didn't come?
26:50
The moment I said please make this stop, that fleeting moment
26:53
and, and I'm and who am I talking to, right?
26:56
Probably around the same time my mom's sitting with a judge. 2
27:00
weeks later, the police are at the at the door. 12 hours later,
27:04
I'm in the hospital. Within an hour, my friends show
27:07
up. 12 hours later, I'm in. I'm in a treatment center.
27:13
And then people are walking and giving me hope.
27:15
Like how you talked about our we were both in the treatment
27:18
center, and you've seen alumni members walking.
27:20
What happened in such a short amount of time?
27:25
Is that odd? Yeah.
27:28
So tell me, let's walk me through because a lot of people
27:31
go to rehab and most of them don't get it right.
27:36
What do you think you did differently to have that
27:39
recovery Click? To have that gift of desperation
27:43
last long enough where you could get some months, some some
27:47
months, and then some years? We, we, we use the word hope,
27:55
right? A lot, right?
27:58
We're, we're, people like us are often hopeless and we're looking
28:02
for hope. So what's going to give us hope
28:06
Usually, I shouldn't say usually for me, hope, hope started with
28:11
with the support of the family. But you said when I'm in
28:13
treatment, what changed or or or what, what was the catalyst?
28:18
I guess, right. What was the catalyst?
28:20
The catalyst for me was, and this is part of that, the
28:27
sequence of events were, were were divine intervention.
28:31
You said the people who were there when I arrived were the
28:34
right people at the right time for me.
28:38
There were counsellors who I had immediate trust in.
28:42
Look one, one guy said to me, he goes, Steven, did you try to
28:46
quit? And I remember thinking to
28:49
myself, is this a test, right? Like I'm in school, right?
28:53
Like what's the right answer? And and in my head I'm like, and
28:59
I spit out the truth. I say, yes, I tried to quit and
29:01
I was I felt so humiliated and embarrassed because I felt like
29:04
I failed, right? And he put his hand on my
29:07
shoulder. He says, I believe your kid
29:08
because I tried to moments, right?
29:11
They're moments, right? Like, oh, OK, I'm not the only
29:14
one. And you seem pretty happy.
29:17
So maybe I should ask some questions.
29:19
So, so, so now I'm getting now I'm getting hope.
29:21
And I told you about the alumni members, right?
29:23
They're giving me hope. But there was another turning
29:25
point. So there's six clients in the in
29:28
the house when I get there, 5 or 6, and they're all young and
29:33
we're sitting around in Group sessions and they're bitching
29:35
and complaining. They're bitching and
29:37
complaining. My mom, my dad, my boyfriend,
29:41
this and that. Nobody's taking responsibility
29:43
right now. I'm new, so I'm like, all right,
29:46
this is how people talk. Well, I'm blaming everybody else
29:49
now. Too I got problems.
29:50
Too. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
29:51
I, I'm, I'm you want to play victim card?
29:54
Yeah. Let me tell you about let me
29:55
tell you about all the people that have wronged me.
29:57
Yeah, it's not my fault I'm here.
30:00
But then two women, two women walked into the treatment
30:04
center, 2 new clients. And every morning we would
30:07
share. And and it's funny because I
30:09
was, I was enamored by these women because I was physically
30:14
attracted a little, right? They were cute.
30:15
That was my first thought, right?
30:17
And I'm like, yeah, they're pretty cute.
30:18
But in those morning sessions, instead of bitching and
30:22
complaining like everybody else was doing, they said, you know
30:25
what? I had sobriety and I lost it
30:29
because I didn't do this. They started taking
30:31
responsibility for their everybody else was playing the
30:34
victim card. They were playing the they, they
30:39
were taking responsibility for their actions and being honest
30:44
about their shortcomings. And I was sitting there in that
30:46
room going what the fuck is this?
30:50
Yeah, a different language at that.
30:51
Point completely. They were speaking a language of
30:54
recovery. Spiritual ease.
30:56
Yeah, spiritual ease. Yeah, so, so, so it's funny
30:59
because because I'm looking at them going, yeah, she's cute.
31:02
But then it turned into holy shit, man.
31:05
And these are women, right? What?
31:08
I don't mean to diminish the others, but they were younger
31:10
and, and, and, but these were grown ass women.
31:16
And I've realized right away they've had recovery.
31:18
They're taking responsibility. I'm really interested in what
31:21
they're, what they have to say. And I stopped hanging out with
31:25
these people in rehab and I started to follow them and
31:29
listen to them. You know, you talked about
31:32
having been in and out before. It's like, it's like, it's like
31:39
I had an unfair advantage because they were there as
31:45
opposed to if there was nobody there who had any experience
31:47
sitting beside me like my, my colleagues, I'll call them,
31:51
right. So, so that's what, what changes
31:57
the people I met, the alumni members, the counselors who
32:00
expressed that they understood what it's like.
32:02
They tried to quit too. And hearing, hearing these,
32:07
these two women talk about how come, what they stopped doing
32:11
that led them to going back out. And there was one other moment
32:15
too. We would watch these videos,
32:17
Anthony, and we had literature and I'm still in the fog.
32:20
I'm in my first couple of weeks. So I'm not retaining a whole lot
32:23
of information. I'm hearing stuff in the early,
32:25
but by the end of the day, I'm like, what is it they said that
32:27
got me so excited earlier in the day?
32:29
I can't even remember. And they said that I think 4% of
32:35
those who get 24 hours of recovery will make it to one
32:40
year. I looked around the room and I
32:42
said, I'm better than you. I'm better than you, I'm better
32:44
than you. I started to compare myself to
32:45
everybody, right? And, and it's, and it's like I
32:49
took it as a challenge. I don't want to be that 96%.
32:53
And I realized the odds were stacked against me.
32:55
So, so like I, I, I, I remember making this commitment.
32:58
I'm going to do everything. I'm going to, I'll show you,
33:01
I'll show you. It's kind of how I felt.
33:03
I will do. I will give this my best effort.
33:07
It was ego. It was literally it was ego
33:09
driven at that point, right? It was my ego going out.
33:11
I'll show everybody. Yeah, which is interesting
33:13
because you know that it ends up hurting you more than any.
33:16
But ego's a funny thing because we still need it, right?
33:22
So when we talk about deflating the ego, I need some of that ego
33:25
to thrive in life and and in recovery.
33:28
So to your point, that's why you hear a lot of people say fake it
33:31
till you make it. Like for me, that works in the
33:33
beginning. It does.
33:35
Fake it till you make it. I'm going to do all these things
33:37
to show them to be because it's ego.
33:40
I want pride, I want to look good, I want to recover.
33:42
I want to you. Want to feel good I.
33:43
Want to feel good. I don't want to be the the
33:45
loser, if you will, of whatever in your mind.
33:49
It works in the beginning. And so I mean, hey, if that
33:51
works for you, but I can relate a lot to to my first time around
33:56
treatment. I was at AI was 23 and I had
33:59
this was in Minnesota in 2015. It was all young guys.
34:03
I was the oldest one there as well.
34:04
A 2323. I went to a kids treatment
34:06
center. Yeah, dude, there was there was
34:08
people there, there was kids there 141516 abusing drug.
34:13
They look like zombies. Yeah, 16 years old.
34:15
It was heartbreaking to see. And I did the exact same thing
34:20
you did. I, I, I turned a corner at some
34:23
point where I was like, you start to separate the people
34:26
between the people that want to want recovery and the people
34:30
that are just checking the boxes and doing it or it's their 6th,
34:33
7th, 8th rehab. Like I had run into people that
34:36
they, they had been in the US. It's a lot different cause
34:38
insurance covers a lot of rehab. So these kids were just in and
34:42
out, in and out, in and out. Yeah, they're recycling and it's
34:44
like a break too, right? It's like, you know, I'll go go
34:46
get some. Reset my tolerance, yeah.
34:48
Yeah, yeah, I got a good night's sleep.
34:50
Get some food in me, get a little exercise.
34:51
Exactly detox safely so I don't have to kick kick withdrawal.
34:55
A lot of people are in there for opiates as well at that point.
34:58
But I, I, I just, I was attracted to that thing.
35:01
These, these these kids younger than me, happy, purposeful,
35:07
trying to help other people, smiling.
35:09
I was like, I fucking, I don't know what this is, but I want
35:13
that. And so yeah, I started hanging
35:15
out with them. If they went left, I went left.
35:17
If they went right, I went right.
35:19
Do you? Do you?
35:20
Did you ever go through moments where there's like, clicks?
35:24
Yeah. Right, in my perception, because
35:28
listen, I'm, I'm, I'm sizing everybody up.
35:30
I still catch myself doing it all the time, right?
35:32
I catch myself doing it all the time.
35:34
Everything, everything is either better than or less than.
35:35
Very rarely is equal to if you're less than I, you know,
35:39
then then I don't need your adulation or your affirmation.
35:42
And and I might want to tell you what's wrong with you.
35:44
And if I think you're better than I want your affirmation, I
35:47
want you to notice me. And if you don't, well then fuck
35:49
you, right? I'm jealous of you.
35:50
And he must have. He must have got that car from
35:53
his. Parents or whatever.
35:53
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Everything I liked about you,
35:56
but you didn't give me you didn't acknowledge me.
35:58
Well, you don't deserve it, right?
36:00
Yeah, you did work for it. But but the click thing, right,
36:03
Like you, you talked about, you saw things and and I remember
36:07
sometimes making that semi conscious decision.
36:11
Do I want to hang it? That looks like fun, but that
36:15
doesn't look like I'm going to get better doing that.
36:17
All right, so they're hanging out in the back of the treatment
36:20
center smoking Butch talking shit.
36:22
Yeah, yeah, yeah. These are the shares of the
36:27
nerds over here, you know, reading their literature, doing
36:30
their homework, you know, showing up on time.
36:34
You know they're not watching. I forget that show Something
36:41
island. Love Island.
36:43
Gilligan's Island. No, no, It was one of those.
36:45
One of those matchmaker wins, right.
36:47
Love Island. Yeah.
36:49
Every night they're pushing the couches together and they're
36:51
sitting around. We got to watch this.
36:53
I'm like, oh, my God, I got to get out of here.
36:54
Yeah, I got to get out of here. But building a resentment, I'm
36:57
playing ping pong just to piss them off.
36:59
So they could hear the ping, Ping, ping, ping ping ping ping.
37:03
But it's it's the difference between like performing or and
37:07
like truly wanting to change, right?
37:11
Yeah, I don't even, I don't remember, you know, it's, you've
37:17
been through it twice, you know, going to treatment.
37:20
Three times. Three, OK.
37:22
I don't recommend it. No, not going back.
37:26
Maybe the first time if you need it, Yeah, try not to go back.
37:32
So many, so many of the decisions that I made early on,
37:36
I feel like like I wasn't, I wasn't consciously making a
37:40
decision. I was listening to something
37:43
inside of me for the first time saying, hey, man, you might want
37:47
to keep your mouth shut and do as you're told this time.
37:53
And a big part of it was, hey, man, your mother saved your
37:56
life. You know, your brother's on the
38:00
other side of the world and he's, he's trying to save your
38:05
life. Your best friend showed up and
38:08
walked you to the through those doors of treatment.
38:11
Like part of me wanted to do it for them.
38:15
You know, I, it was, it's, it was an interesting time.
38:19
It was an interesting time. The uncertainty, the fear, the
38:22
anxiety, but all rooted, but all but what, what, what soothed all
38:27
of that. And we talked about in the
38:28
beginning, if I just do what I'm told, everything's going to be
38:32
OK. And I had this.
38:33
I had, I had faith and I didn't even know it.
38:36
I had faith. You, you, I'm happy you brought
38:41
that up because I actually wanted to go into that.
38:43
And I, I talk about it a lot on here, you know, the, the word
38:45
God and faith. And it can be hard to talk
38:48
about, right? But I, I try not to shy away
38:50
from it because it's such an important part of my recovery.
38:52
And for me, it's spirituality. It's not religion.
38:54
Talk to me about faith and how it's changed over time and where
38:59
it kind of plays a role in your recovery.
39:02
OK, so, so we're two guys talking, we kind of know each
39:05
other a little bit. We got to know each other a
39:07
little bit over time. Let me, I want to ask you
39:09
something because it might help me to, to articulate where this
39:14
fits into my life before you got sober.
39:18
And if I said, if I asked you what was God, what would you
39:21
say? I would say church.
39:24
I would say Christianity. I would say religion.
39:31
OK. And if you didn't do what you
39:33
were told were the consequences? Yeah, so I you, you, you sit in
39:37
line, you stand in line, act in line, or you're not going to
39:42
make it to heaven. Really.
39:43
Like that's sort of the preconceived notion, right As a
39:46
child? Yeah, so I so I grew up with a
39:50
Muslim mother. Sorry, a Muslim father and a
39:52
Hindu mother. I'm a little boy and I asked my
39:56
father, what does it mean to be a Muslim?
39:58
He's like, I don't know, go ask your grandmother.
39:59
He doesn't practice it, right? So I don't know much about it.
40:05
Hinduism, I think it's kind of cool.
40:07
My mom's a moderate. We wear these, you know, I'm a
40:10
kid. I'm like, we wear these
40:11
costumes. We throw rice, we burn stuff,
40:14
you know, we eat food. But I don't think anything and
40:19
I'm I'm a kid. I'm just doing as I'm told.
40:21
But then there's a turning point.
40:22
I'm 25 years old and my father passes away.
40:26
And I know now that people were doing the best they could in the
40:30
moment. But when I was consoled at the
40:32
funeral, people came up to me. I'm 25, so I might be physically
40:37
a man, but I have the emotional maturity level of a, of a kid
40:39
like a 16 year old or a 17 year old because I'm, I'm drinking
40:42
and drugging at this point. I'm stunted emotionally and
40:45
people say to me, God takes the good ones and I'm pissed.
40:50
I'm fucking pissed, man. I'm pissed.
40:54
I'm like, you take away my dad. He's 49 years old.
40:56
That's what God does. My mom's 44.
41:01
I have two brothers and God takes.
41:04
That's what I don't want nothing.
41:06
I don't want nothing to do with you and I, I do this motion
41:09
because I have this perception that God is the man in the sky
41:12
with a stick and the beard. And for the rest of my life at
41:19
the age of 25, until I recover, until I get into recovery 21
41:22
years later, I carry this deep, deep, deep seated resentment to
41:25
anything God, spiritual, religious.
41:27
I just lump it all into the same group, right?
41:29
And, and, and I ignore the fact that people who seem to be
41:34
living by spiritual principles or by going to church or by
41:39
practicing religion seem to be living relatively productive and
41:43
happy lives. But I judge them based on the 1%
41:48
that I read about in the news that are doing bad things or the
41:52
wars that are going on all over the world, people killing each
41:55
other in the name of their religion.
41:56
And I say that's what God is. And then I find myself in
42:00
recovery. And it's been suggested to me
42:04
that I can't do this without some spiritual guidance with
42:10
some spiritual help. But I don't know what that means
42:14
because I put it all in the same thing.
42:15
And moment I hear spirituality, I'm thinking back to when people
42:18
told me God takes the good ones 21 years ago.
42:21
So I'm now I'm at another crossroads.
42:23
I want to get well. It's being suggested that I that
42:27
I seek spiritual help or they accept spiritual help.
42:30
But I'm blocked, man, I'm blocked.
42:31
I cannot let go of what happened.
42:35
But then that same gentleman who said to me, hey, hey, Steven,
42:40
did you try to quit? And I said yes.
42:41
He says, I believe you, kid, 'cause I did too.
42:43
He says to him, he goes, what's he said?
42:45
He said you're in treatment, man, you know, you've tried to
42:48
quit. I said, yeah.
42:49
He goes, well, just keep an open mind.
42:51
Why don't you try something, right?
42:52
If it doesn't work, it doesn't work.
42:54
Remember I talked about ego. I'll show you.
42:57
I'll keep an open mind. You want me to keep an open and
43:01
I'll show you the best open mind ever.
43:05
My mind right now I'm comparing myself to everybody in the room
43:07
again. You think that you have an open
43:09
mind. I'll show you how open my mind
43:10
is, but a bit So. So when I asked you what God was
43:16
right, you talked about symbols, I guess kind of right or.
43:21
And I was the same way I could, I couldn't remove my old ideas,
43:26
these prejudices that I had and I didn't even know I had them.
43:29
So he says to me, he says, if there was a God, Steve, I said
43:31
there isn't. He says, OK, but hold on.
43:32
You said you're going to keep an open mind.
43:33
I said, yeah, he goes, but if there was an open God, what
43:36
would he be? And I said, what do you mean?
43:38
He said like, like what? You know, what would it be?
43:39
Some of his principles. I remember talking about loving,
43:42
compassionate, considerate, tolerant, forgiving.
43:48
And he wrote it down on a piece of paper.
43:50
And he goes, there's your start. And something shifted because I
43:55
no longer saw God as a thing. I saw spirituality as
44:03
principles. So now my mind's not just open
44:09
because I'll show you. My mind's open now because I'm
44:12
actually feeling like, OK, this is starting to actually make
44:14
sense. It's stop.
44:16
I had to stop thinking about the man in the sky.
44:18
I start thinking about how do I want to be?
44:22
Do I want to be kind? Do I want to be loving?
44:24
Do I want to be forgiving? Do I want to be compassionate?
44:28
So, so, so to me, there was a transition from from God as a
44:33
symbol to spirituality as principles that I practice.
44:40
I don't know if that makes any sense.
44:41
Absolutely. And a concept and a guiding.
44:44
For an idea. An idea much more less rigid
44:49
too, right? Like less boxy, less.
44:52
I didn't put it. I I stopped putting it in a box.
44:55
I could. It could be this, it could be
44:56
that it could be. And then when someone else
44:58
shares, oh, my idea is virtual. It could be that, right?
45:02
Like I'm and when you said less rigid, it reminded me of of non
45:06
punishing, non judge, mental and forgiving, right, because I was
45:10
taught similarly. Remember I asked you about
45:12
consequences. Well, if I don't do it, I'm
45:14
going to get punished. If I don't do it, I'm not going
45:17
to get accepted. If I don't do it, I'm going to
45:19
get kicked out of the cult of religion, which is my
45:22
perception, right? But this new way of thinking is
45:25
like, just do the best you can. You're going to make mistakes,
45:27
and that's OK. Yeah.
45:28
Yeah, absolutely. And and you're going to be
45:31
forgiven. And I have to remind myself that
45:32
of that everyday, right. I think for me as as of late
45:37
especially, I've had so many moments I talk to my, my God, my
45:40
power, my higher power. I can't explain to you what it
45:44
is, right? And that's my life is better
45:46
when I can't really explain to you what it is because that
45:49
means that it could be anything. And it's again, it's an idea.
45:52
It's it's growing, it's changing, it's morphing, it's
45:54
evolving in my my way. But for me, it's like, and I
45:58
talk about this a lot, but my perception is constantly needing
46:04
to be adjusted, shifted. And when I talked about being in
46:09
the have to do life, have to do this, have to have to have to
46:13
have to have to poor me, blah blah blah to get to a a place of
46:18
gratitude. I'm constantly man like this.
46:21
Last week especially, I've been in such a place of turning it
46:25
over and accepting doing the next right thing as simple as
46:30
brushing my teeth, leaving the results up, making my bed,
46:33
leaving the results up, checking for applying for new jobs,
46:37
leaving the results, calling the CR like this CRA stuff that I'm
46:41
dealing with out of my control. Just relinquishing and stop
46:46
stopping this story spinning about it.
46:49
Oh I'm I'm broke so I'm going to lose my house.
46:51
Oh, I'm attaching all these. The catastrophes.
46:54
Catastrophes and outcomes and stories and it's going to be
46:57
this way because just stop to to me, that's what it's been
47:03
recently. Was it but, but so when we
47:08
talked, when I, when you asked me where, where, where the
47:10
spirituality entered and I asked you what what happened with you?
47:16
I'm going to ask you again. So, so you know, you've had your
47:21
ups and downs. You've talked about that.
47:25
I often hear people who, who, who, who relapse or slip as they
47:30
call it, they say they lost their connection amongst other
47:36
things. Can you look back in retrospect
47:40
and see that because you're, because you're talking about,
47:42
you're talking about in, in in a manner which I can identify
47:45
with, right. Relinquishing, relinquishing,
47:47
relinquishing. But then you go through that,
47:50
you know, you went back out. Yeah.
47:53
Yeah, and I'm happy you asked that because that is exactly how
47:55
I identify it. My primary purpose today, right
47:58
now as I talked to you, I don't know about tomorrow, Yesterday
48:01
was the same, but today is to help others and stay sober and
48:07
carry the message, help others. There was a point in the 7th
48:10
year and you talked about this before you came into recovery.
48:14
I did this exact same thing. I'm not connecting.
48:19
I'm not. I'm disturbed, OK?
48:21
It always starts with I'm disturbed and we talked about
48:23
this before you walked in here. I love the word disturbed
48:25
because it encompasses how I feel so often.
48:29
It always starts with, I'm disturbed because things aren't
48:31
going my way, but I'm attaching ego.
48:32
Whatever circumstance happens, disturbed, that person doesn't
48:36
say something. I don't like disturbed.
48:38
And it's like the state of Oh my God, overthinking things and
48:41
blah, blah, blah. I'm I'm scanning the
48:43
environment. I'm on high alert.
48:44
Starts with disturbed and instead of going to my recovery
48:47
community, going to my higher power, my prayer, my meditation,
48:51
my practice that I've been doing for seven years, I start to look
48:54
for outside things. You, you nailed it on the head.
48:58
Process of elimination. First I go to the body.
49:01
I'm fixing my body. I'm fat, body is more I.
49:03
Remember you spoke about I'm. Working out I need to do
49:05
steroids because I don't feel good about my body.
49:08
That doesn't work. OK, next ADHD hold.
49:11
On let me just but did, but did it work for for a brief moment?
49:13
Yeah, OK. Yeah, yeah, there.
49:14
Was moments of but then you know this, it's never enough.
49:18
To yeah, yeah, It's like getting high.
49:20
It's like getting high. Right.
49:22
My biceps not big enough? Yeah, my chest, my PEC isn't my,
49:25
my, my abs aren't showing. There's always something wrong.
49:29
There's never enough. So it's, it's a, it's a moot
49:32
point to chase these things. And so that's why I go to the
49:35
next thing because steroids didn't work.
49:38
I start hearing about ADHD medication and this is like a
49:40
high level thing that I'm sure there's like micro processes
49:43
happening throughout the day where I'm looking for food
49:45
that's not working. I'm I'm running a lot that's not
49:47
working the job. I get a promotion at work that's
49:50
not working. The next thing it eventually it
49:52
progresses and this is over a year period into.
49:56
I've never solved this ADHD problem that I suddenly think I
50:00
have. And how long has this been going
50:02
on now, If you, if you. Have like the this is over a
50:04
year period so. And what's going on with your
50:07
connection? I'm not, I'm not praying, I'm
50:09
not meditating. I'm still going to recovery
50:11
meetings. I'm still doing that.
50:13
But I talk about this a lot. I'm I'm performing.
50:14
I'm. Taking up a seat.
50:15
I'm taking a seat. I'm not actually practicing.
50:18
I'm not. I'm not a member.
50:20
You're a pretender. Pretender and I'm so I'm
50:23
pretending to do recovery because I know I need to and I'm
50:26
going through the motions and I'm showing up to places and
50:30
people are asking me how I'm doing.
50:31
I'm not doing well because I'm, I'm already having secrets,
50:34
right? That this is another huge part
50:36
of it is secrets. It's it, it comes back to
50:38
secrets. I'm not and I'm not talking
50:41
about when I say secrets. I think sometimes it gets
50:43
confused with, oh, I need to tell everybody about my past
50:46
like I was. You know those.
50:48
You know those deep, real dark secrets.
50:50
That yes, yeah, yeah. And this didn't happen to me,
50:52
but I was abused or whatever. That's all I'm talking about.
50:56
The things you're ashamed of, you're humiliated about your
50:58
better. But I think I hear what you're
50:59
saying. You're saying whatever,
51:00
whatever's weighing you down, you need to get it out of you.
51:03
Those current plans and ideas for me, Oh, I'm going to fix
51:07
this by doing this. Those plans and ideas, those are
51:11
the secrets that kill you, that that take you out and so.
51:14
Or the financial, the financial stress that you and I both talk.
51:17
We're both, we're both dealing with stuff, right If I don't
51:20
talk about it, right, Yeah. It's going to take me down.
51:22
That's no dirty secret, that's just what I'm dealing.
51:24
With exactly, but it's important.
51:26
It's getting current and that's why on this podcast I love to
51:28
get current and talk about that because it's so important,
51:30
right. I can tell you six ways till
51:32
Sunday how I've recovered from alcoholism and and addiction and
51:35
my life was so mad and now I'm great.
51:37
What the fuck are you? What?
51:38
Was your week. Look, dude.
51:41
And that's why when I come into recovery space, I want to hear
51:43
about that shit. Tell me about how you're
51:45
struggling if you sit here. Not you.
51:47
But if if someone sits in front of me and tells me they don't
51:49
have unmanageability or they gloss over it, you're a fucking
51:52
liar. I don't care what you're lying
51:54
to. Everybody in this world,
51:55
including people who are on the top of their recovery game, has
51:59
unmanageability. Look, removing the obsession,
52:02
that's great. That's clearly an objective.
52:06
But how you living? Exactly how you living?
52:08
I want to hear about how you you flipped off the old lady on the
52:11
street and then like we're so embarrassed that you did that
52:13
right or yelled at the Uber bike.
52:15
This is what I do. Uber bikes bombing down the the
52:18
fucking sidewalk take almost taking people out.
52:20
I scream at him and I haven't done that recently.
52:23
The guy who's tailgating me on the drive here coming down the
52:25
400 and I see him. So I'm not tapping my brakes.
52:27
I'm just letting off the gas. I'm letting off the gas.
52:29
But your motive, right? Oh.
52:31
My motives are like, oh, you want, I'm going to make you eat
52:33
my bumper, motherfucker. That's the shit I want to hear.
52:36
And people need to hear that too, because it's like, oh, I do
52:39
that too. No, we're not perfect.
52:41
Right? So I can spin this recovery
52:42
story ANYWAYS, just to quickly finish my my relapse point.
52:46
Eventually I start seeing ADHD medication and I'm like, I have
52:50
ADHD. That's it.
52:51
And I'm not self diagnosed. No, yeah.
52:53
I mean, I was, I was diagnosed, but I lied like through my teeth
52:57
to get the diagnosis. I manipulated the doctor.
52:59
I shopped around and I don't think I have ADHD, but I'm not a
53:02
doctor, right? I've been.
53:03
My point is, I've been fine in the seven years.
53:06
Not fine. I've been thriving in the seven
53:08
years I lost my connection with a higher power, with a, with
53:11
power granted myself with helping others, the principles
53:14
of our, you know, of our, of our life that we work.
53:18
They start to fall off 1 by 1. I'm, I'm, I'm not as honest, I'm
53:21
not as humble. I'm not.
53:23
And, and then I lose my connection and I'm not telling
53:26
people. And then I, I, I manufacture
53:29
this problem. That's what it is.
53:31
I'm manufacturing problem. I, I can't focus at work.
53:33
Meanwhile, I've been promoted. I'm, I'm doing great.
53:37
I'm not connected, I'm not feeling that God sized hole.
53:40
And then I look to eventually ADHD medication.
53:43
Oh, this is fun. You know what was?
53:45
Remember what was really fun, Anthony?
53:47
Chopping up and snort it. There you go.
53:49
Yeah, cocaine. And now I'm benzos and I'm
53:52
getting into all these. See.
53:53
And I hear, I hear this, I hear this story countless times.
54:00
The slow drip, The slow drip. My curiosity.
54:05
It might be insidious and, and it's funny because when I was
54:09
new, I used to when I'd hear people relapse, I'm like, I want
54:11
to know what happened. I want to give me and and and
54:14
I'm telling you, I still want to know that's.
54:16
That tells me. That tells me you're working a
54:18
good. Program because because, because
54:20
by the time you're chopping up the benzos, shit had long gone
54:24
sideways. And where does it and and and
54:28
you hear the stories it I look back and I and I emotionally
54:31
relapsed long before I picked up a drink.
54:34
I emotionally relapsed long before I I bought a bag.
54:38
But in it, but in it you don't see it.
54:40
But as you're telling a story, we can clearly see it.
54:42
Hindsight 2020 you You said it perfectly.
54:45
Life has lived forward and understood in reverse.
54:47
And well, and, and maybe what I'm searching for it in this
54:50
insidious questions that I asked my friends who, who relapse or
54:53
others is, is there, is there a moment?
54:57
But most of the time the, the, the answers I get is there's not
55:00
a specific it's, it's, it's so gradual, baffling, powerful.
55:05
Yeah, yeah. It's chipping away, chipping
55:08
away, chipping away, chipping away.
55:10
It's waiting for that weak spots.
55:11
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's like a those those ticks you get
55:17
right. They start to embed themselves
55:19
and they dig and they dig and they dig and they dig and
55:21
eventually they're in ya, yeah. And now you have a whole
55:23
ecosystem of them, Yeah. And.
55:25
You got no idea you. Know what moments I can
55:27
remember, though? It's a great question because
55:29
it's important to know, right? How do I catch myself before I
55:31
relapse? That tells me you're working in
55:33
a good program. When people ask me, I'm happy.
55:34
They ask me because I have a new experience to share.
55:37
Yeah, I'm. I hate that I went through that.
55:39
Let's turn this into a positive so I so that you can avoid the
55:43
pain that I went through because if you and I go back out here
55:46
today, it'll get worse. There is, I would bet every
55:50
dollar I have in my bank account, including all my, you
55:53
know, assets, anything that whoever, if you go back out and
55:57
you were like us, it will get worse.
55:59
So. So did you have a sponsor at the
56:03
time? Yes, yeah, but I wasn't talking
56:06
to him honestly. I wasn't sharing honestly with
56:08
other people. Yeah, I was.
56:10
Again, I was showing up and performing.
56:11
The reason, the reason, there's a reason why I asked you that
56:17
part part part of what part of what keeps me keeps, keeps me
56:21
safe and protected is, is having a sponsor, a huge part of it, a
56:26
massive part of it. And it's not just having a
56:29
sponsor, it's having the relationship with the sponsor
56:31
that I have, right, Right. It's even after six years, we're
56:35
still talking 3-4 times a week. We're still seeing each other
56:38
once or twice a week. And he is not afraid to call me
56:41
on my bullshit. And he does because like you,
56:46
like we just talked about shit happens.
56:49
Everything's not rainbows and butterflies.
56:52
I'm no St. and he and he will say, he told me, he told me a
56:55
couple months. So you're getting controlling
56:56
again. Your ego's coming back, you're
56:59
getting clicky hanging out with these people and you're ignoring
57:01
the newcomer. Like he calls me on shit, man.
57:05
I and you know, so when I ask you there what, what led you to
57:09
go back out, right? My belief and, and you know, I
57:15
work with some of you guys is that if you got people around
57:18
you, if you got a good fellowship and people in
57:23
recovery close to you, they will call you on your shit.
57:26
If you surround yourself with the right people, and your and
57:29
your and your and your and your, tumble enough to allow them to
57:35
tell you. Accept the criticism.
57:36
Yeah, yeah. To know that it's coming from a
57:38
place of love. They because they have a
57:40
subjective angle on your. Life, They're not emotionally
57:42
detached. Yeah, I need that, right?
57:45
And it's one thing to have that person in your life to see it.
57:47
They got to tell you too. And then you, it's like a
57:49
three-part process. You got to be around them.
57:51
They have to see it, they have to tell you, and then you have
57:54
to do something about it, right? There's a wise man who once who
57:58
once said that if after 30 years he still needs a sponsor, he can
58:02
tell you what's wrong with you. But when it comes to him, he's
58:04
got this thin veil and he cannot see it.
58:07
He cannot see it himself. So he needs somebody else to
58:09
tell him great words of wisdom from the people who came before
58:12
us. God works through other people.
58:14
Yeah, that's. That's my higher power right
58:16
there is when people point me out on things.
58:18
Oh, yeah, I need to. I need to do that.
58:20
Yeah, don't. Get me wrong.
58:21
Like when, when, when my sponsor tells me stuff in, there's a
58:24
moment where I'm like oh that fuck that hurts.
58:27
But then it's almost immediately overcome with fuck, he loves me
58:30
and he's just telling me what's good for me.
58:32
Your ego is just taking a knife. Yeah, yeah.
58:36
OK, let's, let's close with this.
58:40
What? What?
58:41
Like I guess, what are some current unmanageabilities in
58:44
your life today and how are you working on them?
58:48
We talked about, you know, the one thing that's that's big in
58:50
my life right now is financial insecurity.
58:52
Like, this one's not out of me, man.
58:54
This one's keeping me up at night.
58:55
This one's got my head spinning. This one's got me playing out
58:59
delusional fantasies in my head. When I lay my head down at
59:03
night, when I wake up in the morning, it's, it's, it's always
59:06
back there on the drive down here.
59:07
It's here I come into recovery. And I think, you know what?
59:13
I've got this debt and within two years I can get rid of it if
59:16
I do the right thing. And here I am 6 1/2 years later
59:19
and the debt still, it's still eating me up, man, still eating
59:23
up, eat, eat me up. So that how am I dealing with
59:26
it? Not well, Anthony, not well, not
59:29
well. I have, if I do the next right
59:35
thing, everything's going to be OK.
59:36
Take a leap of faith and have faith like that's, that's
59:38
ingrained in in me today and yesterday and the days before,
59:42
right? Spiritual faith, everything's
59:45
going to be OK. Everything's going to be OK.
59:47
What's the worst thing that's going to happen?
59:49
But man, it's tough. It's tough.
59:51
What am I doing about it? Looking for a new job, looking
59:56
about going back to school, trying new things at the job
1:00:00
that I'm in now because it's, it's Commission based and it's,
1:00:03
and it's, it's not, it's not, it's not me, my, my needs or my
1:00:07
wants. I'm, it's, it's, it's, it's my
1:00:10
biggest challenge right now. I'm struggling to deal with it.
1:00:13
I'm struggling to deal with it. I'm putting my head in the sand
1:00:15
sometimes and distracting myself with other things, right?
1:00:19
Yeah, let me focus on this and not worry about this.
1:00:22
It's tough, man. It's tough.
1:00:23
That's, that's, that's, that's the most current 1.
1:00:26
You know, you talked about the, the body stuff.
1:00:34
I, I, I'm 52, I put on, I put on 30 lbs after I got sober and I
1:00:42
was always in good shape and I got, I got, I got body image
1:00:46
issues that I deal with. I remember when you spoke
1:00:48
recently and you said it and I'm like, fuck, man, he said what
1:00:50
I'm going through, but you gave me permission to, to say that
1:00:55
right here, right now, right? I struggle with that.
1:00:58
I struggle with that. And the way I cope with that,
1:01:01
it's much easier than I'm coping with the financial security.
1:01:03
Because you know what, let me just continue to eat the berries
1:01:05
and the bananas and do a little exercise and have some protein
1:01:08
and stop eating as many potato chips and chocolate.
1:01:11
It's just, it's a diet and acceptance. 52 man, gravity's
1:01:16
going to happen. Put on a couple pounds.
1:01:20
It's OK. Get a little chin.
1:01:23
It's coming. Yeah.
1:01:23
You nailed it, though. I mean, we're so alike in that.
1:01:26
And it's it's, I'm happy that you're sure about it.
1:01:28
And it's great to hear about it because, yeah, it's every day.
1:01:31
It's like, what can I do about this right now, in this moment?
1:01:36
Am I going to die if I don't lose weight right now?
1:01:39
Am I going to die if I don't pay off my debt right now?
1:01:42
And let me hit you with this one.
1:01:43
OK, so you talked about self diagnosing ADHD so you can get
1:01:50
medication. And the next thing you know,
1:01:53
you're chopping it up. And then you meet, you and I
1:01:56
meet for the first time because you've relapsed.
1:01:59
You're back in treatment as a client, and I'm an alumni
1:02:03
member. I just told you the story about
1:02:06
sitting in a hotel room we come to at 11 AM after being in it
1:02:10
for five months smoking crack cocaine, thinking I'm never
1:02:13
going to get out of here. And here I am worried about
1:02:20
nothing is ever, ever going to be as bad as it was on December
1:02:25
the 14th of 20190. That's such a great way to end
1:02:30
it. Remember when so true.
1:02:33
It's so fucking. Just I just got goosebumps
1:02:35
thinking about that. You've been through the worst
1:02:37
part of. Your life.
1:02:37
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing's ever going to be that
1:02:40
bad, right? So.
1:02:42
So I might be lazy. I might be sloth.
1:02:45
That's what that's those are my problems too, right?
1:02:48
Laziness, Sloth. But everything's Anthony.
1:02:52
Everything's going to be OK. Everything's going to be OK,
1:02:54
love. It man thanks you.