Latest / the Dr Gilbz pod / Ep. 5 | Climate Change, but make it sexy | Jessica Riches

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Ep. 5 | Climate Change, but make it sexy | Jessica Riches · the Dr Gilbz pod

• speaker-0: ClimateComs can often fall into the trap of being pretty doomy, gloomy, and often preachy, or at least very earnest. So bringing a little bit of humor, of levity, and dare I say, even sex appeal, is, you know, it's pretty refreshing. And sex appeal is definitely what this week's guest is bringing to Climate Comms. Jessica Riches is one of the minds behind Headline Nudes, a project which uses adult content creators to communicate the science of climate change. And the politics of climate action. The project is backed by Yellow Dot Studios, and they've just released a second series following the runaway success of their first. I spoke with Jess way back in June, just before London Climate Action Week, and obviously I'm kicking myself now because Simon Clark has already released a very excellent video about this subject, but Hey, you snooze you lose, I was super inspired by Jess and it was so fun to hear her take on Climate Comms. And fun really was the word, because we jabbered on for such a long time, and that is testament to how much fun she is. So with that said, I really hope you have fun too, listening to this episode. speaker-1: I am a climate narrative strategist and screenwriter, and Headline Nudes has been my baby for a while now. And it's out in the world for a little bit in partnership with Yellow Dot Studios, which is Adam McKay's nonprofit. And yeah, it's all very much been a crazy couple of months. I was doing kind of my own short films and working on a couple of features and doing my usual stuff with NGOs and government organizations to talking about how we make climate a thing that people care about. And I've had this crazy idea for a while and now I get to talk to really cool people like you about it. So I'm happy to be here. speaker-0: Amazing. Well, I think it's really very cool. So I guess we probably should start with well, give us the headlines about what headline nudes is. speaker-1: It changes every time, but basically, headline news is a way to explain climate, science, and politics to people who might not usually be engaged with that kind of thing. So we use OnlyFans models and adult content creators to explain complex issues, including like permafrost melting, but also how oil companies lied and covered up their sins for a very long time. it's a series of short videos that are mainly on Instagram, but you can also find them on OnlyFans. speaker-0: Sliding into your DMs here to say if you don't know what OnlyFans is, then ask a man in your life. In all seriousness, OnlyFans is a platform for content creators, mostly adult content creators, but not exclusively, to put out content as a kind of subscription-based model. It's think of it like Patreon, but for spicy content. Anyway, that little clarification was just for all of my buddies who did not know what OnlyFans is because that feels quite essential to this conversation. All right, let's get back. speaker-1: They are, I think, hilarious. If I do say so myself. speaker-0: No, I I can agree with that. speaker-1: Funny as well as very sexy. So and that was important. We had to do both. We couldn't just do one, because otherwise the funny one's been done before. And the sexy one, I don't think people would take it that seriously if we were like trying too hard to be sexy. Like there's a tonal thing that you really have to walk when you're doing something as insane as using like porn parody to make climate sexy. speaker-0: For sure, there's a a tightrope to walk between overly cringe and earnest, but also trying to be sexy, but then not really succeeding if you're being too earnest, and then also on the other side being too piss taky, and then not quite getting the like OnlyFans sex work sort of angle, and also like yeah, I can imagine it was quite a a challenging thing to balance. speaker-1: Yes and no, because I just feel like we had the dream team for it. So I think if you were trying to do something sexy but you didn't have sexy people, that obviously would not work. So we were lucky that we had the sexiest cast ever. and then we also had kind of a team of comedy people also working on it. Everything I do is about kind of people being horny at the end of the world. And that has not changed when it came to this. This was just the kind of biggest version that. And I have a belief that we are seeing people's true selves when it comes to times of crisis and times of emergency, whether that's like in your personal life or in the wider world. And that naturally brings out a lot of comedy potential. but most people don't think that is necessarily that funny, but you have to have a sense of humor about it, because we are here. speaker-0: You laugh or you cry. speaker-1: Or both at the same time while masturbating in the case of this content series. So it's just a lot of emotions and liquids. speaker-0: Very good. Tell us a bit about like the the cast. You said you had the dream team and I've seen that you've worked with loads of different spicy content creators and yeah, they're all bringing something quite different to the videos. Like how did you bring together those people firstly? And how did you bring together the people behind the scenes and what was that experience like? speaker-1: It's it's just one of those things where when you've worked in an industry for so long, like I f I I go to events that are like climate change events or whatever, and I'm like, okay, and when I used to drink, I'd be like, okay, I'm gonna need a lot of champagne to get me through this, because it would just be the same people and the same conversations and this sort of desperate desire to like channel this optimism that we can do something about this. When we know full well that we've been trying to do things about this for a long time, and there's just a really small group of powerful people who are stopping us and not acknowledging that really simple systemic truth was really frustrating me. And so I was really excited when the kind of climate storytelling movement so lame came about. and like the the the concept itself is lame, the people working on it are generally awesome. But I was going to more events with people like Climate Spring and Green Rider, who I could see were number one, sitting at the intersection of where I work, which is obviously film and climate, but also just trying to make it a little bit sexy and a little bit more interesting. And when I say sexy, I don't just mean boobs, although it helps. I mean like bringing an emotion to the screen or the story that people can connect with in some way that isn't just, I'm receiving facts. I'm receiving facts. I'm receiving facts. Which I think hasn't super worked for us because the factual space has become really muddy because of the miss and disinformation created by the fossil fuel lobby and the politicians who are in bed with them. And so I was just like, okay, people are trying to bring emotion, to bring story, to bring human characters. And there could just be like a shift in people's brains because of the way that we experience emotional storytelling versus how we experience being lectured and told that we should recycle, which, as we all know, is bullshit. And created by fossil fuel companies. no, recycling works as a gateway drug to get people to feel like they're having important feelings and they're able to contribute to changing the world and making it better. I will say keep recycling. but basically that was kind of a lot of emotion that I was having. And then I was offered a Churchill fellowship to research climate storytelling, go to America, talk to all of the people who are doing a good job in that. And I basically went there and I was like, great, this is just my list of people I fangirl over. I'm gonna go speak to them. And I had had on my manifestation list or whatever you want to call it, my prayer journal, my hopes and dreams. I've said for years that my dream is to work with Adam McKay. Like I love Don't Look Up. I think it was doing something incredibly different, especially at that point in time. And it does feel really inside baseball to me. But it also feels just like a great film to everybody else. And I remember watching that and being like, okay, we're on a pathway. people, I'm not the only person who feels like they're standing in a crowded room screaming and nobody can hear me, to quote Kate Winslett and Titanic. other people are feeling this exact same thing that the science isn't being listened to, the media is against us, all of these things. And so I've always been like, that's who I would want to work with eventually one day if I could ever come up with an idea good enough. And so I went when I was doing this research fellowship to interview Stacy Robert Steele, who is Adam McKay's co-producing partner, who did Don't Look Up and who founded Yellow Dot Studios. And we'd been introduced by someone, Will Attenborough, who won, who runs Green Rider, which is an amazing organization that gets actors to use their power to get productions to turn greener. and he was like, You guys are both really fun, you should meet. And I was like, Well, that's the best introduction. I can hope for when and I was just so excited to be there. I'm in Hollywood and there's all the signs for don't look up the big short succession. And I'm like, these are all my favorite things. And then I interviewed Stacy about how the climate storytelling space is. And obviously this is a professional interview. So I'm trying to be all like, yes, what are we doing very, very well? And what are we doing that's not working very well? And we both just I don't even remember how sh her memory of this is that I turned off the recording on my phone at this point in time for the interview, but I don't remember if I actually did do that. But I was like, real talk. Like, how can we make this sexy and fun? Like, how can we? And I was like, I've got to shoot my shot. Like this is the only people in the world that I feel like truly understand the despair I feel at this industry. And I think she mentioned the kind of don't fuck anyone who works in oil, which is obviously a great way in to start talking about these things. I think it was maybe James Wonder that said that to start with, but it's a thing that we should all do for sure, is definitely not fuck anyone who works in oil. speaker-0: Yeah, it sends like never kiss the Tory to don't fuck anyone who lives at bucks an oil. speaker-1: Yeah. That's the logical progression of protecting our planet and future for sure. There's some complex issues around people who are just trying to pay their bills and working in very low paid jobs. I'm more talking about the billionaires and their management, but we don't need to get into the intersectionality of it all right now, but I'm aware of it. but anyway, that was not what we were thinking at that point in time. We were just like, How do we make this like thing sexy? And I was like Well, do you know what? I have a lot of friends who do OnlyFans and they really care about the world. And I I just feel like there's something we could do that marries those two those two things together. Like you bring the comedy like relationships and understanding and like genius, and I'll bring the OnlyFans creators who are very sexy and also funny and have huge audiences. And we can bring these things together and we can create something new. And so we had that conversation, and I was like, this is great. we're definitely never gonna speak again. just one of those meetings where everything felt great at the time, but you just, you know, you let it be what it was, which was one perfect afternoon in Hollywood. And then I went to the Tesla Diner, and that was an experience, and irrelevant to the story, honestly, but just I think interesting that there is a Tesla Diner where you can go, and it's like Elon Musk's weird dream of the future that. Is not the future any of us asked for. And I did a strip tease and the Tesla Diner. If anybody wants to watch that at any point in time, you know where to find it. We got back and I said to my friends on OnlyFans, so specifically my friend Meg Prescott, who was in Skins when she was younger, just did an Edinburgh show a couple of years ago about her experience going from like child acting and how she was kind of sexualized on stage on screen at a young age, but then actually like didn't. Get a career or much money from that, and then turned the exposure from that into a career in sex work. she's also the chair of National Ugly Mugs Charity, which protects sex workers from violence. And she talks a lot about how we can use the gift that we have, the sexualized female body, and do what we need to do with it. And then through her, I met Bree, Bri Esserig, who was a YouTube content creator back in the day, very, very funny. Also the greatest meme curator of all time. If you follow her on Instagram, every day she posts six to seven memes, which are perfect. and that is my the greatest compliment I can really give anyone. And she's she's hilarious and she has a huge following. She's massive on on OF as well. And I was just like, I'm gonna invite these guys into this process. And so I'd said to them, guys, maybe nothing will come from this, but Yellow Dot, who are this big deal studio in LA, are like interested in maybe doing something. And then I was just really surprised when we ended up being like, let's all have a call together to talk about this. I was like, my God, this is actually gonna happen. and so we we organized this call. I don't think I particularly communicated well to Meg and Brie what this call was going to be, because Brie showed up and she was. Dressed as she was doing a custom and she was dressed as my god, I forget the name, but like one of the characters from Gorillas, like the cartoon Gorillas, and so had like a blue face and like weird short grey hair and a tooth like scribbled out. And obviously these people have never seen her before, so they're just speaker-0: Perfect. speaker-1: yeah, they're just like Okay, and they didn't know how to react, because they were just like, is this what she normally looks like? what is her OnlyFans vibe? this is crazy. Yeah. And so then we had this call, which was supposed to be kind of a brainstorm, but actually just ended up being Brie and Meg explaining to us, because I didn't have OnlyFans at this point in time, explaining to us like, how does it even work? What do people even want? Like, how do those relationships work? Because the reason that I thought OnlyFans was going to be such a good platform is not just because of the creators and the skill that they have of like, explaining things and communicating with men, which is a skill and a gift and a a really a a trial and tribulation at times, but they they do a great job at it. they are professionals at talking to people who often don't have anybody else to talk to about difficult things in their lives. lots of them say that they're closer to a therapist than they are to what most people would traditionally think of as a sex work. It's like the stereotype of OnlyFans is that it's just people buying porn. And that's just not the case. It's the reason people are on there and not just on one of the tube sites is because they want to feel like they have a personal relationship with someone and to build that ongoing relationship over time. Like even if they don't want the full girlfriend experience or can't afford the full girlfriend experience, what they get is knowing someone in the same way that you do on any social media platform. And that makes their content more interesting. That's just how parasocial relationships work. I've been doing a lot of research into Trump's campaign and how that was so effective, looking at the landscape of I I don't want to talk about climate as a left-wing issue because it shouldn't be, but it obviously has been politicized in this very polarized world that we live in to be seen as woke, to care about, and therefore has become a left-wing issue. And also the the money funding, the different sides of this are it is kind of right versus left, and we can see a really similar funding pattern. In things like Trump's administration and J.D. Vance's rise to the vice presidency. And we can see how the money has gone into now recently, away from electoral spending into all-year-round spending on creators and personalities and parasocial relationships. And that's just not something that we in any space in kind of progressive politics have really invested into in the same way because of impact investment and philanthropy structures. And so this was also as well as just this little fun content series, it was really important to have people who have built-in audiences who might not be the typical people who are being reached by climate change messaging, who we could reach in a really impactful way. And so we had this kind of brainstorm session where we all learnt about how OnlyFans works and we we came up with I think 20 different creative ideas that we could do using this platform. And this network of people that we had in this space. And it was really fun. I really hope we get to do some more of them because some of them were amazing. we were like, we should do parody, Real Housewives of Oil. And just it would be so good. Like ideas. Honestly, I could have at one point I was like writing J-O-Is about like you have been a bad oil billionaire. And I was like, I mean, I'm still hoping to do that. Maybe I'll record some content on that today. I do have to do a CEO cl custom today. speaker-0: Can you talk us about that just very briefly? speaker-1: Yeah, just just quickly talk about just pitch yourself. speaker-0: I really want to I want to hear about the customs. what kind of thing are people asking for? Like when you've got these interactions with people, are they asking you like climate questions? Like what what kind of what is the relationship like and what are you making for them? speaker-1: So I obviously didn't have OnlyFans. I'm not like your I'm not an OnlyFans person. I do not identify my friends, that is their job. They are so good at it. And all of the casts that they brought through for this, who came from their personal networks and connections, are so talented. Like they know, like I've never worked with people. I've worked with like amazing film stars and actors and people who've been in your favorite TV show for years, who are so talented, and I'm not undermining them in any way. But working with OnlyFans creators, I was like, man, like you know your angles, you know how to like stand up for yourself, like you know how to make things happen quickly, you are on another level. And on top of that, they have this like private connection with every single person that they're speaking to and like DMing and talking to them. And I was like, Okay, like wow, crazy world. But I'd never done it and I'd always been like really intimidated. my job is very much like, no, I I write papers for philanthropies and I this is not, I'm a speaker-0: A bit different. speaker-1: it's a bit different. And but my friends were like, but you know what that means? That means you're you're not like other girls. And do you know what men like girls who are not like other girls? And I was like, you're so right, I'm I'm not like other girls. And so I kind of thought I needed to learn how to do OnlyFans to do this project. And I just thought, you know what? Like in this economy. Try it. I it's it's be trying to make films in this economy is not the easiest thing in the entire world. And I just thought I'd try it. I did not I was it's I was I'm really lucky. I'm like a person who, like, even though I'm from a working class background, I went to university. I've had a really good job since then in with like a public profile. I've talked a lot about kind of the things that I do, the things I care about, and I did not feel like there was ever gonna be any stigma. For me, if I joined OnlyFans personally, because I am not gonna go into a job interview in two months' time and then be like, actually, we've seen that you did this, so therefore we can't offer you this job, which is a thing that lots of people have to deal with and lots of people have to focus on an anonymity, which is then really hard to even make money from it if you do that. So I was just coming at it from this really privileged position of, I may as well try it. I chatted with my parents about it and they were like, Yeah, great idea. My dad posted about it on LinkedIn. What a supporting. Incredible. Yeah, he was very supportive. And so I, when I joined it, it was very much knowing that it's probably gonna be a short term thing. I don't have the energy to spend as much time as my friends do, and also I don't have the network and the audiences that they do. But obviously, because someone like me joining it was so unusual, I ended up getting a ton of followers really quickly. My profile's free, so people can just follow me. And I was like, now I've got to post. So I basically started posting largely about Peter Thiel, Palantir founder and general bad billionaire man. And I was like, I'm gonna talk about him because he, number one, like I can talk about surveillance capitalism, but then I can also talk about the infrastructure of like billionaires and stuff. I wasn't just talking about climate to start with, I just am really passionate about Peter Thiel. And I was this was before we did announced headline nudes. And so I was mainly talking about that, and I was like doing a reading group for The Sovereign Individual, which is a book written by Jacob Brees Mogg's grandfather, about The it was written in the 90s about how we can use the internet to basically get rid of the power of nation states and have individuals becoming the most powerful people. And lots of Silicon Valley billionaires took that as their right, let's go and use this and and copy it. So I was kind of doing reading on that. And yeah, I was kind of just talking about those things to see what people were interested in. And then what my friends had told me is that you'll just get like nice messages from people who want to be your friend. And I not expected that. So I did turn on a thing that means that if people wanted to send me a message, they had to pay five dollars. which was so cool because then I would post things that I knew were a little bit incorrect, and then they can't help but correct me. So I'd be like talk I'd post stuff that was controversial, but I maybe I believe it, maybe I don't, but I know that they want to tell me their thoughts and feelings. So I ended up making quite a bit of money just from like mansplaining, which was really fun. Then when Headline Nudes launched, I was like, I'm gonna open up my DMs for free for anybody who wants to message me to talk about climate stuff. We obviously got a lot of attention from it because we no one had really done this kind of thing before. And we were we were in the Guardian, we were an enemy. Yeah, I was like, wow, amazing. I've made it. If I could go back to 15-year-old me and be like, this is where you are, she would be delighted. and so I kind of ended up getting this influx of followers who had seen headline nudes stuff. And I was like, yeah, if you want to talk about climate, let's just talk about climate. And I am not joking, I was inundated with really long messages of people saying, I'm scared. what is happening? I had this one guy, which was my favorite one that came first, be like, Can you tell me what's happening to the sea life under the ocean? I'm really scared. when is it going to be too late for the sea life under the ocean? And then I was like, this wasn't what I was expecting at all. Now I have to find really caring ways to tell people that, Yes, lots of the things that you're worried about are already happening and are inevitable. But these systems that it exists within are things we can change. So it doesn't have to be the end of everything as we know it. And I don't think that's like falling into the optimism trap. I was just trying to explain really clearly. Yeah, speaker-0: pragmatic. speaker-1: like the that's the difference, I think, of like I'm not saying that click your fingers if we all just recycle, everything will be fine. I'm saying like we know what the problem is. We know the people causing the problem, we know that the problem is really bad, and we know we can solve the problem if we change the system, which again, I make that sound like that's easy. It's clearly not, but be at least people being aware of it. And then I'm able to connect it to the bigger problem of billionaires and wealth inequality. And that's stuff that I think if I just made an explainer video, we've all tried to do many times over, people just scroll past. So having the funny, sexy parody side of The OnlyFans creators doing the headline nudes videos, which does take a a porn stereotype, leaning into whatever demographic audience that creator has. You think you're watching porn, and then we flip it and we bring you a ton of science and or political facts or cultural facts. And that brings people in with this sense of humor and this safety to then be able to ask those questions that like have speaker-0: Yeah, that intimacy. speaker-1: like a friendship group. It is intimacy. And that is what I was not expecting. speaker-0: Storytelling and trying to find different ways to get in to talk about climate change is so important because yeah, people like me, climate scientists, I'm a recovering academic. We've been trying the lecturing thing and the explainer thing, and like, here's some science. I'm gonna give you some facts and I'm gonna throw them at you, and this is what it is, and this is what you need to do. People don't respond to that. It's been tried and tested and failed many, many times. And I see my colleagues still attempting the same old ways. over and over and over again, and it's not something that necessarily always yields results. The idea of coming at it from a different angle feels very important. It's trying to harness like a different or tap into a different space, whether that's through, I don't know, sports or OnlyFans creators or, you know, whatever else it is that people are interested in to try and harness that audience. Because as you said, yeah, big oil has been channeling dark money into all sorts of nefarious things, including crazy bot farms on YouTube and social media and all of speaker-1: Hi guys if you're watching. speaker-0: Exactly. And yeah speaker-1: We know you're speaker-0: how do you find that when you're talking well, I guess on OnlyFans, but also on all of your comms platforms around headline nudes, has it been surprising that you've been having more emotional conversations rather than factual ones? Were you expecting and what kind of temperatures are we predicting to have by the 2050s? And then actually you're getting, I'm scared, how do I deal with it? And are people making connections between like the systemic parts you were talking about, the kind of billionaires and the inequality and dare I say structural capitalism? that is driving all of this mess? Are you getting more of that angle? And How are you balancing the need to move away from fear whilst still acknowledging how fucked it is? And I mean, I've I struggle with this a lot. Like I find that the best framing for me as a scientist that feels authentic to my background is to take courage rather than to try this blind optimism because blind optimism is a false promise and false hope doesn't get us anywhere. But also there are still things we can do. And it does we do need to acknowledge that that structural problem that is why we're here in the first place. So how are you finding the balance of that and how are you finding communicating that in this particular niche? speaker-1: You basically just summarized my the thing that I that my insomnia cause. like thinking about that problem is is what keeps me up at night, like every single night. I was really lucky I did a fellowship at the in UCL's Climate Action Unit. It was just so good. And we were the creative storytelling to impact climate policy fellowship. We did like a six months of just really going deep on like the neuroscience of persuasion and how what people actually listen to, what people don't listen to, and the emotions and how we're so led by our emotions and how actually as amazing as every climate scientist is who's dedicated their life to understanding this better, we have really fallen down at taking people out of that space and into the real world space. And that's not the fault of anyone apart from big oil. But also it's like neurologically, and I am not a neuroscientist or anything. All I have done is this six month fellowship and then Went around telling everyone I was a neuroscientist because I was so obsessed with what we were learning. people's brains like shut down when you try to tell them something which threatens their existence. Like I also do a lot of work in the AI safety space and like the existential risk from AI. And I've learned a lot about also how we shut down, like from a very sci-fi perspective in that world. And the thing that sticks with me is have you ever seen Westworld, the TV show Westworld? speaker-0: No. Maybe I to do it as homework. speaker-1: Yeah, you'll be okay. I enjoyed it a lot, but especially the first series. But there's they're basically the premise of Westworld is it's like a theme park you can go to where lots of the people that you interact with, it's like wild wild west themed are robots. but you don't know that. They seem like real people and you can like get involved in these really violent or sexual storylines with them. And basically every time they have a they're into built into their programming, they have a thing that every time they basically realize that they are not human. They just go, doesn't look like anything to me. And that's their defence mechanism and shut shutting them down from accepting their own destiny, which is that they are not real humans with real lives. And that's what I think we do when we're confronted with something which is like a slow moving risk for which we have absolutely no reference for and feel no control over. We just shut down and say, Well, I can't do anything about that, so I'm gonna look over here. And I think that's what don't look up illustrated really well. is out we'd much rather talk about which celebrities having an argument or g argue with each other about something which is overall meaningless, which is if we go back to billionaires, another part of their playbook is to turn us against each other so we don't look up at the structural speaker-0: And there's plenty of research that also shows that climate denial and not just climate denial, lots of the kind of polarization is related to identity, and we we choose to downplay the value of evidence that is contrary to our own sense of identity and sense of self and our values and our vibes, and then we choose to in f take information or take persuasion from info that we feel like reinforces those identities. And I mean I kind of been saying something similar for a long time and not really had the the evidence to back it up. But I think it's increasingly being shown in the social science and the neuroscience that in fact I read a paper literally just yesterday that says pretty much exactly this that's climate denial particularly is an identity thing. And it's the same things we see with conspiracy theory, right? you you end up having this group think because something feels like you have a sense of belonging with this group that all shares the same values and interests and opinions. So you end up getting further and further down the rabbit hole because you're surrounding yourself and you're choosing to take information only from those sources. And that's the root of the problem we have with such incredible polarization in our society and the idea that climate change has become a left versus right issue because it's yeah, we're we're choosing to surround ourselves with people that match our vibes. And that's not necessarily a good thing. But it's really hard to break out of that because I don't necessarily want to go and talk to Farage and his mates. I don't really want to like have a shouting match in the pub with someone who disagrees with my identity or the information. And it's really hard to cross that divide. And actually something like headline nudes or other kinds of left field when it comes to climate change, an approach like that is is actually very valuable because it's on the surface, it's not about climate and it's some a way to bring people in from both sides or all sides, I guess. speaker-1: After my research that I did, which is where I met the the Yellow Dot Studios who we did headline news with, I realized that there's a real need for us to be channeling the communication tactics that we're seeing from the people who understand how messages actually get through. And that was looking, like I say it, like Steve Bannon and Trump's administration flood the zone with shit is literally speaker-0: Very effective. speaker-1: and it works so well. And they're not caring about like the sanctity of every single message. They're just Giving resource to people who broadly agree with them and who will help create the vibe that people will identify with. That means that when it comes to voting or making decisions on key issues and where they stand, where their identity is, it will be with these people they have outsized parasocial relationships with. And so headline nudes is just the first thing that I'm doing as part of this kind of world. I want to make a DD game that explores these issues in a secret way. I want to do more stuff with sports people. I wanna be working with building a solid podcast ecosystem that's not just Hassan Pika, our Lord and Savior. Diversify the number of parasocial relationships that aren't just dominated by right wing narratives to be able to bring the messages that matter to people in spaces that also like they might trust. Because that's the thing about doing this through OnlyFans, is like we are doing it through trusted voices because we don't feel like we're we're not lecturing anyone. We're kind of giving you an entertaining experience that you can take it or leave. I had Two people re reply to one of my things or or contact me on OnlyFans who were, I wouldn't say denialists, but more I guess just like quite unbothered. I had one guy who was like, Well, I live in landlocked England, so it's not gonna really affect me if like the sea levels rise. And I was like, Okay, well, and I got to do it in like a fun, like naughty boy. I'm gonna tell you what you you did wrong. I'm marking your homework and That's quite a fun way to correct people's misconceptions. And I was explaining, like, well, just because where you live geographically might not on a map to you right now look like it's gonna be effective. Number one, we're not just talking about sea level rises, we're also talking about massive temperature changes if something like Amok collapses, but beyond that, it's about everything else. It's like I'm gonna assume you're person who doesn't love the concept of migration. Where's everybody gonna go if their places are effective? What's gonna happen to our food supplies? Like speaker-0: The connections between everything that you might care about that you don't necessarily see. Yeah. speaker-1: I explained it in a way where it wasn't like, well, actually, here are four articles you can read about how you will in fact be impacted. and I just did it in this quite fun role-play way. and I was like, I can't believe this guy's not paying for this. This is stressing me out. But I feel like I did a surface to humanity. And so I think taking that perspective with it, and there was another person who like this shows you how amazing and lovely everyone who's followed me on there is in the conversations I've had. But like one guy was just like, Turning it constantly to just being like, yeah, but it's good that it's getting hot, right? you're gonna be taking more clothes off and just stuff like that. And that was the only one I had that used the space really actually effectively, creatively, I would say, for the messaging. but wasn't really engaging everybody else. It really was like an in-depth engagement that really we were talking about what it means locally and how your voting and stuff can impact it. Cause you say you don't really want to be talking to Farage and his mates and stuff, and I Wholeheartedly agree, that is just not how I want to spend my time. But it is a gift I have learned over the years of like being in pubs with my dad and being forced to talk to people and now being on OnlyFans. We had a by-election here before the local elections. I live in Margate, an amazing place. And we had a by-election, which was where we're in a massive like reform area, and the Green Party put a lot of energy into here. and on the day of the election, I went down to the local polling center and I saw these like reform guys who were just like hanging out there and trying to collect everybody's details. And I was like, I have a skill that I can actually use for the benefit of society here. So I just kind of played dumb and I went up to them and I was like, Guys, can I talk to you? I'm not sure who I'm gonna vote for. And they're not allowed to talk politics, obviously, on at the polling station. And so we I walked away and I ended up chatting with them for like an hour with them just like. man splaining things to me and saying some of the most insane things I've ever heard about climate policy. Like they were saying like the reason we can't depend on wind farms is because they have these new like whatever blowing up device thinging is I don't really care about like I don't like war so I don't really know but like weapons that you could like put under the sea that can actually if we relied exclusively on wind power, then we would like the the wind farms would collapse. So we can't switch to renewable energy because of these weapons that they have in the middle. I know and then happy happy ending is that we did have a green candidate Wynne who is amazing and who actually used to be like a wind farm engineer. So it was like a lovely irony speaker-0: We love that. speaker-1: and he's gonna do great for us. So yeah. And that's before like the green surge that we saw in all of the local things. So it's about having those conversations about what you can do locally and even if you feel like voting doesn't change anything, like having control over something and also what you were saying about like identity, if people believe that they I'd like this what I say is good about recycling. People have to keep self persuading and saying, see, I did a thing and it means something. speaker-0: Yeah, and it is a gateway drug and it is a way that people can feel like, I'm having a direct influence and I am contributing. And then it is, what can I do next? That's doesn't feel like enough, but it's this gives me a little warm glow. So what's the next thing that'll give me another little warm glow? And I guess this is kind of what I wanted to talk about next is like the the idea of the message, the messenger, the venue of the message, and like how it's delivered, having a different approach to that, whether it's on the side of the polling station or in the pub or on OnlyFans, has it changed the way that you view climate messaging? have you rethought anything about what you need to do and who needs to be telling those messages? Because I think in some ways climate scientists are good for communicating on some things. And I'm Aware that most of my colleagues are not necessarily the best communicators always. And the ones who are good are really good, but there's not that many of them. So like trying to come at it from like a different angle and having like diversified voices and diversified messengers who are able to talk about it from a different perspective, particularly when it's an emotional one, that feels like very valuable. speaker-1: It's a stay in your lane thing. It's like you didn't become a climate scientist because you want to talk to everyone all of the time, most of the time, I would imagine. Like that's like you're probably in a unique position where that's a skill. speaker-0: Well, I wanted to be an actor as a kid, so unfortunately I'm in a very strange position 'cause I'm I'm from a long line of thespians. So actually this is actually just coming full circle for me. speaker-1: So actors, when that doesn't work out, you can either become a cult leader, an entrepreneur, or a climate scientist. three options. Or YouTuber. So yeah. So I think finding a couple of those, tick that off. At least you'll be fulfilled. but yeah, I think most of the time when I speak to climate scientists, like I am in awe and I'm just like, you know so much stuff. But then even I, someone who this is like my hyperfixation special focus passion and has been for a long time. Do you find myself being like, okay, bored now, want to go and scroll through something or watch porn, let's say. like, how do you find the connection between the thing that people like actually want to be doing and the thing that like sometimes feels medicine? Because the most of the time that people engage with science was at school. Yeah. And lots of people who don't continue with that in a career, like they net they they remember those lessons that they didn't get good grades in, they didn't like the teacher, it wasn't engaging. And so even put positioning it as science is kind of like and also science isn't true to like half the population now as part of their like vibe check identity. So I think like what I just really wanted to do with headline news and we the the what everything that we were just really passionate about is like making funny, sexy videos that just like happen to use the the science and the politics of it all as a way to make it funny. Climate Springs is the amazing amazing organization that does so much of this stuff in terms of getting like TV and film creators to be talking about. climate naturally in their stories. And we've seen some really great case studies of how that's worked. And it tends to work really well. And this is something I'm also looking at in the AI space. When you view it as a creative challenge rather than you've got to put this in because everybody needs to know climate change is happening and it's bad. It's like actually where are the interesting things that are reflecting our society as a result of the climate changing. And every single geography has an example of those. But the really big example that everyone's been talking about is the heat dome a storyline in Grey's Anatomy where if you're a T V writer, Grey's Anatomy's had seven hundred and ninety-four series or something ridiculous and they have to just be coming up with story constantly. So if they're coming up with story, this is the world, this is like the reality of what's happening. If we keep viewing it as like science or politics or history, then that's just not reflective of the truth. speaker-0: Is the idea of traditional credibility dead? Like the idea of the the expert that comes on a TV show as a talking head with the the white hair and the OBE and the degree and all of that stuff, is that being less and less is that now less and less important? And is it more those parasocial relationships, those trusted relationships, those messengers that you vibe with? Is that now more important? Or is it just separate and different? speaker-1: I think it's experts are coded as elite now. And like anyone who's had the privilege, because it is a privilege to like dig into something like that, like that is probably gonna turn off like a large percentage of the population. So we need to turn them on. and I sorry, the puns just come thick and fast with this. See it's So yeah, we could do this all day. We could literally. my gosh, it just doesn't end. So yeah, I think that there's like I w I'm a big conspiracist. I think we are living through like the biggest conspiracy theory of our time, which is like that this is a planned like end of civilization event. and, you know, I say that on Reddit, but like I don't say that in like and I say that now on YouTube with you, but like that is not Thing that I talk about when I'm like at climate conferences, and I really want someone to give me the money to make a documentary that will speak to my fellow conspiracists and say, You really want to believe conspiracy theories about our world? we're in one. here's all of the evidence that shows how you've been lied to by a group of elites and they're making your life much less viable while theirs is continuing very comfortably. And the AI question comes into that a lot as well because it's the same concentration of power. But the thing is, is I I also think therefore about aliens a lot, because they spend a lot of time on conspiracy subreddits. I was talking about this with my friend who's like a really serious and normal person who does a lot of great work, also campaigning against concentration of power and billionaires. And he was like, I do think there is some we went to go see Disclosure Day, and he was like, I do think there is something in aliens, but I've just never seen an expert who can talk to me about it in a way that I believe because it feels like all of the people who are t telling these stories are really not credible. That that just to me was a really clear example of how there are lots of people who really believe in aliens because of the people that have told them, who aren't scientists and who don't have government backgrounds or who who do but sketchily left the government in quite strange circumstances. And so I think we need to lean into that fact. And it's not about being dishonest and lying, because the facts are all there. But I can tell different people the same thing in different ways, knowing how they'll react and When we're talking about something like headline nudes, it's that first stage of just catching people's attention and actually maybe some people didn't realise about how Exxon knew the entire time about what they were doing. And so if we put an incredible stripper and pole dancer there, grinding and licking her leg while she talks about it, they will maybe listen. And that's shout out to Sabrina, who is phenomenal five stars and who I literally am writing a film to cast her in now because she came from Babe Station and she's just incredible. Explained in two takes how this It was incredible. I've never been so delighted watching my words come to life. but that's one way in for people who have maybe would just scroll past if they said, Here's a thing you didn't know about oil, or but then there's other people where we could have positioned it as here's the conspiracy theory that you don't know that they would have leaned in, whereas other people would have like, Well, I actually need a scientist to confirm this, otherwise I won't believe it. And so I think it's just being aware that people's beliefs come from different places now. And if we want to reach a widespread of people, we just have to be coming in with different angles, different creative opportunities, different creator opportunities, different messengers. And we've been because of the way that this industry in terms of climate communication is funded, it largely comes through quite traditional academic and philanthropic sources, which means it has to be portrayed and presented in a way that ticks those boxes. And you have to really try hard to we need money to do stuff. That's really what's missing out. I I am a person who c I can't just spend my life being like I've had a great idea about how we communicate climate. Yeah. And I'm gonna do it by myself, which is speaker-0: Wind lobby, where's the big solar money at? speaker-1: Guys, we were told that you were there doing all of this stuff. this is when I need the conspiracy theorists to be right. And so we were really lucky with headline nudes in that because we were like, I'm a great producer. I make short films that I basically like do consulting work to earn money to make short films with my collaborator. And so I know how to make like low budget content like look really good. I think that like that gave us the freedom, as well as the support of Yellow Dot to make headline nudes in a way that feels like people want to pay attention to it and it has some level of credibility to it because of the production value and the incredible talent and the very funny writing, if I do so so myself. And I think that that gave us the ability to reach into multiple different audiences. But if we as an industry and as a side of the debate, which apparently is a thing we're in when it comes to climate, want to be reaching different people, we have to be investing in like different messengers, different platforms. But unfortunately, That's not where the investment is going. And you have to prove 25 years worth of impact and stats to be able to do anything, which is just not what the other side is doing. So this whole thing is basically a way of me saying, you paid attention because we put boobs in it. Boobs are not the only way. There are many other ways, but you are not investing in those ways. And we do not have time to keep doing this badly because there are systems we need to disrupt. Like we are the the party we're throwing at London Climate Action Week is called Last Chance Saloon. Because it's for climate communicators and we are like, genuinely guys, if we don't get this right now, this is not the only issue, but it's like a very big issue that I think this year with Super El Nino is gonna really shock people to where we are that they didn't believe we were. Because also the problem that you all scientists have, bless your soul, is that you don't wanna be told that like you well, actually like you said this was gonna happen and it didn't, so I never believe you again. You have to be really careful about what you say. speaker-0: The tiptoeing around is so it's so jarring because I s I know exactly why people do it, and especially I've I've been guilty of it myself as a scientist. Like you have to be so measured about what you say, and actually a lot of the time it it people don't really understand the scientific method, and scientists are such a very specific type of person who do this very specific type of work, and the structures of science as the scientific method does not re it's not conducive to like good communication. which comes from the heart. You have to s say things from the chest if you want people to believe you and come along for the ride. But you look at, I don't know, religious leaders who forecasted the end of the world twenty seven times and it's never happened and people still believe them. So how do you use that angle instead of someone being like, well, you said that it was going to rain last Tuesday and then it rained in the afternoon instead of the morning. Like that is a different kind of communication if you're super hyper specific, it doesn't always work, but sometimes it does if you've got the values and you've got the vibes. And yeah, I think the like some of the stuff you were saying about like the messenger, we take ourselves too seriously a lot of the time in climate and trying to use alternative measures that respect that people don't always want to be lectured and that People don't want to hear bad news all the time is very, very important 'cause we need to laugh as well. And I know it's the end of the world, but like gotta enjoy yourself at some point. surely. Otherwise you just end up in despair. speaker-1: Yeah, and I I've I'm guilty of that as well. it's really funny, obviously, you look to your favorite, I'm not a comedian, but you we always say the comedians are the saddest. And I like I channel a lot of the fear and anger that I have about the world into my silly projects like having an OnlyFans that's dedicated to like billionaires and climate change and the films that I make and projects like Headline Nudes because I otherwise do not know how to get through each day. my mum literally said to me the other day, she was like, How do you sleep at night? Because I was explaining to her the AMOC collapse or something. speaker-0: Yeah. speaker-1: Because sometimes my parents like they I grew up reading The Sun. I did not have media literacy. They ha my mum just they just don't know who's paying for the news that arrives on their doorstep every day and the vested interests that are there and the narratives being created. And they didn't have the education that I have. So I am able to sort of break things down. And then they look at me and they say, How does she know all of these secrets? How is she surviving in a world that's so like that she sees as pure evil? And I'm like, Well, the only way I can is because I am like, I'm gonna mm write jokes about it and make sexy films about it and go on OnlyFans and talk about it and that's how I do it and it's really stressful but I don't I'm not a scientist. I have I don't have to be measured. Like I do not have to be measured. I could like probably start a live stream of like me screaming and crying. It wouldn't be helpful but like I could speaker-0: Might be helpful, you never know, might get people to join in with the screaming into the sea idea. speaker-1: Yeah, I d I tell you I went and screamed into the sea the other day. speaker-0: He did not and I I love that and respect that. can you invite me next time please? speaker-1: Yeah, come to Margate. But I went to go see a film, one of the many horror films that have come out this this last couple of weeks. was it Yeah, after that I was just like, Do you know what? And I I came out of the cinema and I was like terrifying horror films scare me, but they also are like a really cathartic way of dealing with things. And obviously I wanna make a ton of horror films because I think that's probably a really great way to communicate what we're going through right now. not a joke, I'm working on those, and so I wanted to see these to be inspired. And I went with the Green Councillor who got elected over a reform in our local by-election, which I should say happened because the reform counselor had beaten his wife. And therefore had to step down. So I'm not making any statements or judgments based on that, but that is a fact of what happened. and then afterwards he was like, Should we just go scream into the sea? And I was like, Yeah, let's let's go scream into the sea. And we literally went and did it and like had to like warn people. We were like, just so you know, like we're doing this now, like don't be freaked out. And it was so cathartic to just literally let everything out and scream into the sea, which is this. vast body of nature. And he said something afterwards really smart. He was like, and the sea just doesn't care. It just doesn't change. And we and I was like, okay, I I I believe in the power of nature. And I'm not like a nature girly. I'm not like a science girly. I only started going in the sea last year because I I literally had never been in the sea before. And then I was like, I'm doing all of this work to protect this planet and I know nothing about it. And it freaks me out. And we've got an amazing person here as well who's like opening a community garden because we have so many people who are racist around here and it's like you have claim of this land, but you don't know this land. And so feeling and connecting with nature, as well as being angry and telling jokes, are the only coping mechanisms that I feel like I've found as a climate communicator who sees the reality of the world that my mum says, How do you sleep at night? I'd rather shut it out to be able to keep doing hopefully productive things to just get more people aware. So that then maybe one day they'll be ready to listen to scientists. But those all feel really radical at first. speaker-0: Those feel like radical approaches to take that local versus global action. maybe we all need to scream more into the sea and put our hands in the soil more. probably we all need to do that more often. But those do feel like radical approaches. And I was wondering if you have any other kind of radical approaches up your sleeve. Do you have any other things that are on the on the horizon, beyond the sea where you're screaming into that are going to start percolating into what you're actually doing at the moment? speaker-1: Yeah, we are hopefully going to be continuing the headline nudes universe. We will be sharing more about that soon. I've launched an organization called Saturate Media, which check our website out, saturate media.com, which is very much about how do we flood the zone with messages that actually might get through. and I think it's early days and it's a it's a funding. landscape to be navigated for sure because the whole thing is is I want to try stuff no one's tried before. I can't guarantee it's gonna work. With headline nudes, it's the first time in my life I've done a climate campaign and I've done many with some huge philanthropies and organizations where you spend nine months working on this campaign to explain this a very important science and then you have to spend thousands and thousands and thousands to get people to actually see it. The engagement levels low. A lot of people are like, don't lecture me or want to argue with you. With headline nudes, every single creator that we worked with had their own audience, but they're shadow banned because of the way that social networks treat sex workers, is that they don't want them to be making money from their own bodies. They'd like much prefer that adverts make money from women's bodies. and so they don't like I was shadow banned within two days of talking about OnlyFans on Instagram. And that means that when you're shadow banned, your content doesn't get seen or recommended to people beyond your network. And you can see if you've been shadow banned, it's in your settings on Instagram. And all of the sex workers and creators that we worked with are shadow banned just because of the types of content that they create. So despite that fact, despite the fact that we launched a new channel for headline nudes, which had no followers before, we did collab posts with creators who are all shadow banned. We had hundreds, actually, we've had views in the millions on these videos. With so many comments, so much positivity, so much excitement, genuine engagement, which followed through onto a second high barrier platform. OnlyFans is not easy to join and engage on. You have to have ID to show your age. You have to it's you have to literally scan your driving license to be on there. It's not like I can just quickly pop over and do a three-part quiz. It's difficult. And we had such a sustained journey of engagement because of the relationships, because of the humor, because of the sexiness, because of the production value. Because of the story that surrounds it. So it does work. We just could never have showed that to a potential funder to be able to get them to sign this off. And we did that from a really, really difficult place. So all of the things that I'm working on now are taking that same risk and saying, I don't know if this is gonna work, but we sure as hell haven't tried it before and we need to try it now. speaker-0: Yeah, you have to throw the kitchen sink at it. Like there's speaker-1: That's what they did. Like that's that like you can probably look at like a lot of the stuff they did for like Trump's election and say, that wasn't effective. But we don't look at the uneffective ones, ineffective ones, because we just see what worked. And so I'm sure I'm gonna do like many things that fail and like nobody pays attention to. And like, you know, that's soul destroying for two days, but you just get up and there's literally no other way I could sleep at night. So yeah, I'm trying to do loads of stuff. I wanna do I wanna do all the things. I want us to have another podcast in a couple of months' time where you're like, wow, I didn't know you could go crazier than headline nudes, and yet Here you are, and now millions of people are talking about the climate problem. speaker-0: Here we are. so last little shout, tell us where we can find you, tell us where people can find headline news, where they can find your work, all that kind of stuff. speaker-1: I mean the blue and white site. no. If you actually want I I need to start posting more consistently on other channels, but on Instagram, I'm Little Miss Wild, Wild with an E like Oscar, because I was a pretentious 18-year-old before I was a content creator for adults. and from there you can go to my website and see everything I'm doing. And also Headline Nudes is just at Headline Nudes, but we had to spell it not like nudes as in naked pictures, but nudes is in N E W D S, due to the fact that if you say nudes, you will be further shadowed. speaker-0: What a wild listen. Thank you so much to Jessica Richards for coming on the podcast and telling me all about the exciting and amazing work that she's doing. It was super, super fun to hear about all those innovative techniques and the reasoning and the origin stories behind headline nudes. I really love what she and the team are doing right now and long may it continue. And it's also clearly not just me that loves headline nudes, because the second series has been an absolute raging success. So If you're interested, make sure you do go and check out that series either over on Odifans or other slightly more vanilla sites. Links in the description where you can check them out. In the next episode of the pod, I'll be talking to a professional athlete about how sport can be a force for climate good. And I'll also be in the meantime bringing you to other videos, but I don't know what they are yet. If you're watching this on YouTube, then you can support the channel over here on Patreon. And if you want to stick around on YouTube, then watch this video next. I think you'll like it. Alright, see you next time.