Latest / Random Heathen Ramblings / Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP26 - A Heathen's Experience At A Christian Retreat For Men [feat. Chris Martino]

Transcript

Random Heathen Ramblings: S5, EP26 - A Heathen's Experience At A Christian Retreat For Men [feat. Chris Martino] · Random Heathen Ramblings

• 0:03
  Hello everyone, and welcome to the Random Heathen Ramblings
• 0:06
  podcast where we discuss all sorts of things Germanic
• 0:09
  Heathenry related. My name is Jesse and I am your
• 0:11
  host. Let's get into it.
• 0:37
  The elevator workshop is dedicated to the old ways,
• 0:40
  offering a wide selection of animus, ritual supplies,
• 0:44
  divination tools, altered goods and home decor, including
• 0:47
  premium reindeer hides imported from traditional herders in
• 0:51
  Northern Finland. Whether you're just starting
• 0:53
  your spiritual journey or looking to expand your
• 0:56
  collection with a custom drum, we have everything you need.
• 1:00
  Visit our online store at the All They hear.com and discover
• 1:04
  the beauty of Mountain Spirit. All right everybody.
• 1:11
  Hey, welcome back to the Random Heathen Ramblings podcast this
• 1:14
  week, and thank you for tuning in on your preferred streaming
• 1:18
  service. Whether you're listening on
• 1:19
  Spotify, Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, heck, I don't know
• 1:25
  wherever it is that you're catching, I sure appreciate it
• 1:27
  and want to thank you so very much for helping keep this
• 1:31
  podcast ranked in, you know, somewhere out there the people
• 1:35
  keep wanting to check it out, new followers every week.
• 1:38
  So that's pretty awesome. If you are a patron here on
• 1:41
  Patreon and you're watching the video versions of the podcast, a
• 1:45
  very special thanks to you as well.
• 1:47
  For those of you listening that don't know what I mean, you can
• 1:51
  catch this podcast in video format on my Patreon page.
• 1:56
  If you head over to patreon.com/midgard Musings, you
• 2:00
  can join at just a dollar a month.
• 2:03
  So just the $1.00 Carl tier gets you access to the videos.
• 2:08
  You get a little credit on the end screen, you know, credit
• 2:11
  screen there with your name and your, your, your, the, the tier
• 2:15
  at which you pledge your support.
• 2:17
  So again, that $1.00 tier pledge to get you access to the video
• 2:21
  and then there's additional tiers as well.
• 2:23
  So you can peruse that link for that's going to be in the show
• 2:26
  notes for all you listeners out there.
• 2:28
  Just click on that link, tree link.
• 2:30
  There's a bunch of things you can do there.
• 2:31
  You can follow me on all my socials.
• 2:32
  You can buy merchandise through spring, of course, become a
• 2:36
  Patreon on Patreon. So yeah, just check it all out,
• 2:39
  see what they're what fits you and appreciate any added support
• 2:43
  that you are able and willing to give to help keep this
• 2:45
  production of the show going strong the way we do.
• 2:49
  So this week's guest we've got coming on here just in a in a
• 2:52
  moment. He is a, a heathen himself of,
• 2:56
  as I understand it, about 13 years or so.
• 2:59
  He also helps Co moderate the high lung mental health
• 3:05
  spiritual community group on on Facebook that my good friend and
• 3:08
  brother Patrick Walsh kind of founded and runs and admins.
• 3:13
  I kind of help Co moderate the group as well.
• 3:15
  So between Patrick, myself and Chris Martino, who's joining us
• 3:20
  today, he is a great guy. And he's he's going to be
• 3:24
  talking to us today about an experience that he had just a
• 3:29
  few months ago, back in April, end of April.
• 3:31
  So less than a few months, just a couple of months ago where he
• 3:34
  was invited to a men's retreat, but it was a Christian men's
• 3:39
  retreat. So what's, what's cool is that,
• 3:43
  you know, Chris has been kind of following what I do for a while
• 3:46
  now and we've talked around having him come on the show or,
• 3:50
  or at least, you know, have a presence on a, on a, on an
• 3:54
  episode one time for, for a little bit now.
• 3:56
  And it's just, it just hasn't worked out.
• 3:59
  Different things have happened. And, and we actually had this
• 4:01
  scheduled for a few weeks ago. I think at the end of May was
• 4:06
  when we originally started. So we're here now and we're
• 4:08
  going to be talking about this experience that he had at a
• 4:11
  Christian men's retreat, being a heathen there, you know, so it's
• 4:16
  going to be really interesting getting to hear his experience,
• 4:19
  you know, how did it all happen? Why did he go and hear a little
• 4:24
  bit about, you know, Chris's background and, and just what
• 4:27
  something like this could potentially maybe do for others
• 4:31
  if given the opportunity or given the chance.
• 4:34
  So, you know, where we're going to be talking today about, you
• 4:36
  know, sharing space with people of differing beliefs, you know,
• 4:40
  and and when you're away at a retreat of any sort, usually
• 4:45
  those types of things are designed to disconnect and sort
• 4:47
  of separate you from the normal everyday life of things.
• 4:51
  So it's very immersive, but I don't want to assume anything.
• 4:54
  So without further ado, let's go ahead and bring Chris on the
• 4:58
  show and see what he has to say about everything that we just
• 5:02
  kind of, you know, introduced about.
• 5:06
  So here we go. Hello.
• 5:10
  Hey there, Chris. How's it going?
• 5:12
  Good, good, good. Thanks for thanks for finally
• 5:15
  coming on the show. Man, It's been a while since
• 5:17
  we've, I know, initially started talking about you coming here
• 5:22
  and then we've had a few hiccups along the way, whether it's
• 5:25
  been, you know, sickness or a family member dying or some,
• 5:29
  some other sort of thing. It's it's been, it's been crazy.
• 5:32
  So but we're here now. So thank you again for reaching
• 5:34
  out and wanting to come on the show today.
• 5:36
  Amen. Thank you for the opportunity
• 5:38
  and for being patient with me and for being a accommodating,
• 5:42
  though we really don't need to. Yeah, no, of course, man.
• 5:46
  I know that life gets sometimes this, you know, life.
• 5:49
  Obviously life gets in the way. Life.
• 5:51
  Life finds a way. Yeah, it does.
• 5:56
  There you have it. But but you are a heathen and
• 6:00
  you are going to be talking to us today about an experience
• 6:03
  that you had with some non heathens as I understand it,
• 6:06
  right? Yeah.
• 6:07
  OK. 400 Christians. 400 Christian men.
• 6:12
  A bunch of Christian men, you know, So I mean, you know it.
• 6:16
  What's interesting for me is that there's been a lot of
• 6:18
  different episodes that have come out this year on in this
• 6:21
  season where I've had different folks come on here and we've
• 6:25
  we've talked about, you know, sharing space with others who
• 6:30
  don't necessarily subscribe to the same beliefs.
• 6:32
  They might be respectful of them or whatever, but they're
• 6:36
  definitely not adhering to those beliefs and this this
• 6:40
  circumstance that you got to be a part of definitely sounds like
• 6:44
  that, right? They're definitely it's apples
• 6:47
  and oranges if you wanna. That's.
• 6:49
  Right, So if you don't mind real quick, if you would please give
• 6:54
  people just a little bit of a background about you.
• 6:57
  Like I've mentioned earlier, your, your heathen have been so
• 7:00
  for, you know, over a decade, 13 years, give or take.
• 7:03
  So, so what's your story? What's the back story of of
• 7:06
  Chris Martino and being a heathen?
• 7:08
  So my back story is it kind of like, OK, so I didn't grow up
• 7:13
  religious. My dad, he's a Roman Catholic,
• 7:15
  but he wasn't one to like force it on me.
• 7:18
  So when I was around the team in my teenage years, he would just
• 7:23
  give me books, like give me a Zen book on Buddhist Zen
• 7:27
  Buddhism, a book on the the Tao XI Ching and the Koran.
• 7:32
  He said, like, choose your own path.
• 7:34
  I'm not going to force anything on you.
• 7:36
  So here's some books. Learn it, figure out where you
• 7:39
  want to go. And so I was like, I'm like a
• 7:42
  kid. I'm also an atheist at the time.
• 7:44
  And I'm just like, I don't know, this religious stuff just isn't
• 7:47
  for me. And then somewhere around like
• 7:51
  my late teens, I just like something snapped in my head and
• 7:54
  just like not like crazy. Yeah, I went nuts and snapped.
• 7:58
  But it just like something clicked in my head and it said
• 8:01
  there's something greater than me.
• 8:02
  I just don't know what it is. But I kind of like went on this
• 8:05
  journey. I first started out with
• 8:07
  Buddhism and it's a great religion, great spirituality for
• 8:12
  if you, if you ever want to get to it, but not get into like the
• 8:15
  whole supernatural part aspects of it, It's perfect.
• 8:19
  But I just couldn't get into like the whole vegetarian thing
• 8:23
  because I tried it for two weeks.
• 8:24
  I smelled steak after two weeks and I was just like, I can't do
• 8:27
  this anymore. I need that flesh.
• 8:30
  So then for I was like kind of like for a while, just like
• 8:34
  dabbling with like Roman Pagan. I got into like Roman history
• 8:38
  and culture, like ancient Roman history and culture.
• 8:43
  And then I started reading about the religion.
• 8:47
  It's like, this is actually kind of cool.
• 8:48
  Multiple gods, they all do different things, you know, like
• 8:51
  in the background, you know, this, you've heard about like
• 8:53
  all the different mythologies, especially with Greek.
• 8:56
  So but when you actually dive into it, it gets a little bit
• 8:58
  more interesting, a little bit more personal.
• 9:01
  So I started babbling with that, but it wasn't like
• 9:03
  straightforward paganism. And this is like about maybe
• 9:08
  2005 S around 2006, some things happened.
• 9:14
  I ended up with a book that was called a Wiccan Bible by AJ
• 9:17
  Drew. And I was like, I'll read this.
• 9:20
  So what was interesting about this book, even though it's like
• 9:23
  a Wiccan book, it had all kinds of different information.
• 9:26
  It had like all different information about like the Greek
• 9:28
  pantheons, the Norse pantheons and so on.
• 9:30
  And then different aspects about like what different pagans
• 9:34
  believe about like the afterlife.
• 9:36
  So it just kind of like went from there on.
• 9:38
  I was in the eclectic Pagan for up until like the end of 2009
• 9:42
  where I just decided to become Morse Pagan.
• 9:47
  And this is before, you know, like Vikings or anything like
• 9:49
  that. And you know, you know, like how
• 9:52
  some people kind of convert that way.
• 9:54
  This is all before that. So it's just like, it's just
• 9:59
  like something that just like felt good.
• 10:01
  You just felt right. And it just kind of like clicked
• 10:04
  into place. It's hard to explain, but it's
• 10:06
  just like something that just like felt good to me.
• 10:08
  And I felt like something was pulling at me from that, from
• 10:11
  the Nordic, you know, you know, direction.
• 10:15
  So that's how I am here. That was long winded.
• 10:21
  Like I said I would. Be kind of like Ben Shapiro
• 10:24
  almost. He's like Caffeinator or
• 10:27
  something. Well, it's definitely, I mean,
• 10:30
  we could go, we could probably spend half the episode of just,
• 10:33
  you know, going into our backgrounds and stuff,
• 10:35
  especially when you go like over a decade.
• 10:38
  Yeah, you know what I mean? Like, and I'm sure when you,
• 10:40
  when you first discover Norse paganism, you know what the, you
• 10:45
  know, the Pagan, the heathen you've become is definitely not
• 10:48
  the person who you were when discovering it.
• 10:51
  It's a progressive journey. And I feel like that's with any
• 10:54
  really, you know, any spirituality or any religion.
• 10:58
  You know, you don't stay stagnant in the same thing.
• 11:01
  You grow and you. You know, kind.
• 11:03
  Of branch out in different ways and you know, some people tend
• 11:06
  to go in a very, you know, reconstructionist way.
• 11:10
  Some people like a bit a bit more of the, you know, new age
• 11:14
  type of eclectic approach to things.
• 11:17
  Some people like animistic approaches.
• 11:20
  I mean, so there's, you know, so many different branches you
• 11:22
  could go off in that, you know, we, we, we really could probably
• 11:25
  just make an episode about that in itself.
• 11:28
  But but yeah, so I mean, a decade or over a decade.
• 11:32
  And I mean, that's definitely you.
• 11:34
  You've got tenure. You've probably learned a lot
• 11:37
  and seen a lot over the years just in that and you stuck with
• 11:40
  it. You know, I noticed a lot of
• 11:42
  people when they find something, they'll dabble in it for a bit
• 11:48
  and then get bored with it, you know, because it wasn't speaking
• 11:51
  to them. But it's what's interesting you
• 11:53
  said is like the other things that you were exploring or
• 11:55
  learning about, they were they didn't see, they didn't seem to
• 11:58
  speak to you or call to you in the same way as as the the Norse
• 12:03
  Pagan stuff. Exactly.
• 12:06
  Yeah. So that's cool.
• 12:08
  And you, you also, we, I mentioned just briefly earlier,
• 12:13
  you know, you found, I don't know if it was through high lung
• 12:18
  or if it was through other means, but you, you, you are a
• 12:20
  Co moderator for one of the high lung mental health and spiritual
• 12:25
  communities on Facebook, Patrick Walsh, a good friend of ours,
• 12:27
  brother of mine, admins that did you, did you discover, how did
• 12:34
  you, how did you, how did you find out about that part of, of
• 12:37
  things 'cause obviously a lot of folks that are heathen lean
• 12:41
  heavily into the, the imagery and, and the whole aspect of
• 12:44
  high lung too. Yeah, so I met Patrick on
• 12:49
  Facebook around like around like March or April 2021.
• 12:54
  And he and I so like I, I met him, I think it was under this
• 13:02
  is Matthew Petrie's ear like ears and brace.
• 13:06
  Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
• 13:07
  Yeah, I like and I think there's like also like another Heilong
• 13:10
  group that me and Patrick were also in meddled through one of
• 13:13
  those two. I'm not entirely sure, I mean I
• 13:15
  can remember date but I can't remember the exact thing.
• 13:19
  But him and I, we just had hit it off well, we shared our art
• 13:23
  with each other and we've been friends since then.
• 13:26
  And then he just invited me to the Highland group and then made
• 13:30
  me an admin. So very short story, but he's a
• 13:36
  cool dude. Yeah, he is.
• 13:38
  I've, I've had the pleasure of getting to know him on a
• 13:40
  personal level off of Facebook, you know, off of social media.
• 13:45
  I've invited him to my house. He's been here a couple of
• 13:47
  times. Yeah, we go to, you know, he's
• 13:49
  been to a fire on the mountain. He's he's, he's, he's the real
• 13:53
  deal man. He's as, he's as genuine as they
• 13:55
  come. And so, yeah, I know he's gonna
• 13:59
  be excited to to listen or, or or watch this episode with you
• 14:02
  'cause he's speaking highly of you as well.
• 14:04
  So. He might like to have second,
• 14:05
  like second thoughts when he sees this.
• 14:07
  And he's like, man, this guy's a bumbling fool.
• 14:11
  I'm a bundle over along with you though.
• 14:13
  It's OK, we just. It's the random here.
• 14:15
  This is this is a whole new Ave. for me and this is like like you
• 14:20
  say, like your one of your questions you asked was how like
• 14:24
  why did I do it? But I'm gonna answer that now.
• 14:26
  So I have like really bad anxiety and I just, I'm getting
• 14:31
  tired of it. You know, it makes me like, you
• 14:34
  don't want to do this, but God, all those people, you know,
• 14:38
  going on the podcast, all those people have been looking at me
• 14:41
  and like making snap judgments. But you know what?
• 14:44
  Don't care anymore. I'm tired of caring about that.
• 14:47
  So that was part of my kind of like New Year's resolution for
• 14:52
  2024 is to do the uncomfortable thing.
• 14:55
  So being on the podcast, having like probably like hundreds of
• 15:00
  people just seeing this, seeing me.
• 15:04
  So this is a new experience for me.
• 15:07
  And this is part of it, part of getting over that whole anxiety
• 15:09
  thing. And that's why I went to the
• 15:12
  retreat because one, I never spent like more than maybe like
• 15:18
  an hour or two alone with my wife's father.
• 15:21
  So I mean, he's a good guy. He he knows there's like no, you
• 15:27
  know, Atomus between any of us, we're all good, we get along no
• 15:30
  problems. But it's just like that idea,
• 15:33
  just like spending time with someone that you haven't spent
• 15:36
  time with that much on like a couple days scale.
• 15:41
  And the second thing is the fact that I'm going into, you know, I
• 15:46
  don't want to say enemy territory because that's kind of
• 15:48
  melodramatic, but there's like you're going with 304 hundred,
• 15:56
  you know, people, men that are all Christian.
• 16:01
  That's. That's a big, that's a big turn
• 16:04
  out. Yeah, it was a bit like, 'cause
• 16:06
  like they said, like the the turn out last year was 300, so
• 16:10
  they gained more people on this one.
• 16:13
  So that's kind of impressive. So.
• 16:17
  So it was. It's your father-in-law who
• 16:19
  invited you to go on this thing? Yep.
• 16:23
  And was this the first time you got an invite or has he tried
• 16:26
  before and you've declined? There was another Christian,
• 16:30
  like another Christian's retreat that was, I think it happened in
• 16:33
  New Jersey, and this is back in 2023.
• 16:35
  And I just declined it. And I was just like afterwards I
• 16:39
  was like, maybe I should just try and see.
• 16:42
  I mean, I mean, I know myself, I'm strong in my faith.
• 16:45
  No one can convert me. Nothing can change my mind about
• 16:48
  what I believe in. So it's like that whole anxiety
• 16:52
  thing, just like, I don't know. So if I, I thought to myself
• 17:00
  maybe into the gods of my ancestors that if I had the
• 17:03
  chance again, if he asked me again, I would do it.
• 17:06
  And lo and behold, February, he asked me.
• 17:09
  I was like, we're OK, let's do this thing.
• 17:12
  But like, you know, like the week's leading up is fine.
• 17:16
  And then like a day the day before.
• 17:19
  And that day I was just like, I hope, I hope he cancels.
• 17:25
  Then I was like, no, no, no, no, just gotta go.
• 17:28
  Just do it. And I did it for three days.
• 17:34
  OK. That's going to be my next
• 17:35
  question. Is that how long did it last?
• 17:37
  Yeah, it's like from like got because it took place in West
• 17:40
  Virginia. West Virginia, No, Virginia,
• 17:45
  Virginia. It was like almost like on the
• 17:47
  border, West Virginia where it was at, but it was like from
• 17:52
  midday Thursday, Friday full day, Saturday full day, and 1/2
• 17:56
  day on Sunday. So yeah, about 3 days right
• 18:02
  total. How, how you know how, how much
• 18:08
  did you have to like separate from society?
• 18:13
  How rural was the retreat Now you know what I mean?
• 18:15
  Like, how disconnected were you from like the everyday sort of
• 18:18
  life and. So no Internet.
• 18:22
  So like the, our cell phones wouldn't work.
• 18:25
  We're like right in kind of like a mountain is like a mountain
• 18:27
  valley basically. They're like mountains on each
• 18:29
  side. And it was like hard to get like
• 18:33
  any kind of reception because like when we first got there, we
• 18:36
  wanted to call, you know, you know, our spouses and say like,
• 18:39
  hey, we got here and it's just, it's hard.
• 18:42
  But then you see like other people that are walking around
• 18:44
  with their cell phones. So I guess they had a better
• 18:46
  service than we do, or they had a satellite phone, I don't know.
• 18:50
  Yeah. But it was.
• 18:53
  Was it like a, you know, hotel rooms or camp cabins or camping
• 18:59
  or what, what was the, what was the lodging situation?
• 19:01
  Like it's like, it's like a little campground.
• 19:03
  It was kind of actually cool looking and almost kind of like
• 19:06
  how the setup was. It almost looked like a little
• 19:07
  like little town. But so you have like these
• 19:10
  different cabins and the one I was in was called Bitter
• 19:13
  Mountain and the rooms we were in was called Flat Rock.
• 19:18
  So you have like these different little cabins and you're like, I
• 19:23
  don't know how many of them were, but there's quite a few.
• 19:25
  And then there was like a central location where the we
• 19:29
  had lunch at and off to once to like this other bigger building.
• 19:33
  That's where like the sessions took place.
• 19:37
  So that's a good sized campground that is was pretty
• 19:40
  rural. That's beautiful there.
• 19:42
  I mean, like to give an idea how, like how rural this was
• 19:46
  when you were outside at night, you looked up in the sky.
• 19:48
  It's just stars, lots of stars. Can't see that here and where
• 19:53
  I'm at. Yeah, that's like, man, when I
• 19:55
  go out to the Blue Ridge Mountains, you know, Appalachia
• 19:59
  for Fire on the Mountain, every year, it's it's up in the
• 20:03
  mountains, man. And you know, where I live is in
• 20:07
  the city of Murfreesboro, TN and, and there's light pollution
• 20:10
  everywhere. So even on a clear night.
• 20:12
  What stars you can see are polluted by the city lights and
• 20:16
  so and so forth. So going out there to, to, you
• 20:20
  know, to, to the Blue Ridge Mountains and, and being up in
• 20:23
  that landscape and just getting the pure crystal clear night
• 20:28
  skies, seeing every little star, every glimmer, every glow, man,
• 20:33
  it's, it's the Gray. It's the best.
• 20:35
  I love it. It's similar to what you're
• 20:37
  describing, you know. And also like the at night,
• 20:41
  because I'm used to like where I'm at, it's like a small town.
• 20:44
  I got Philadelphia maybe a couple miles to the east, West
• 20:48
  of me. So that's their light pollution
• 20:51
  right there. And then I have like the main
• 20:53
  like right nearby. It's just like maybe a couple
• 20:55
  minutes, like minute or two drive to the main highway, which
• 20:59
  is 295. You just like if you go out
• 21:02
  there right now, you can hear like the traffic going back and
• 21:04
  forth. But when I was in those
• 21:06
  mountains at night, quiet except for frogs and whatever other
• 21:10
  animals, but it's just so nice. Yeah, the wildlife.
• 21:14
  Yeah. So you said that they, I mean
• 21:18
  the, the whole set up sounds great.
• 21:19
  And, and if you know, just to be honest, regardless of what the
• 21:24
  retreat was for, I would take any opportunity to to go to
• 21:28
  something just to experience that.
• 21:30
  Yeah, that was like the other part too.
• 21:32
  I just like, I really want to go check out some mountains and
• 21:34
  just get away from like, you know, urban life, suburban life
• 21:39
  actually. Yeah, yeah.
• 21:42
  I tried a city life. I can't do it.
• 21:45
  Yeah, you know, like I live, I say, I mean I live in the city
• 21:49
  of Murfreesboro, but it's it's it's it's getting so developed.
• 21:54
  It's you know, all the all the politicians that get voted in
• 21:57
  are all developers. So the the city was used to be
• 22:00
  kind of like a small town is it's like Nashville two point O
• 22:04
  getting that way. So it's getting super crowded
• 22:07
  and, you know, even in the last eight years since I've lived
• 22:11
  where I live now, it's, it's grown exponentially, you know,
• 22:16
  and I just can't, you know, it, whatever it's going to be like
• 22:20
  in the next 8 to 10 years. I I don't even want to hope
• 22:23
  we're out of this area, but by then, just like it's going to be
• 22:27
  asses to elbows. Yeah, it sounds like getting
• 22:30
  here in New Jersey. I mean, like, you got a band of
• 22:33
  buildings all over the place, but then they're like taking
• 22:35
  every like scrap of like what used to be farms and turning,
• 22:38
  putting condos in there. It's just horrible because like
• 22:42
  we're known as the Garden State. We're no longer look like a
• 22:45
  garden anymore. If you go like a little bit down
• 22:48
  South in New Jersey, you still have some of the Royals rural
• 22:52
  areas and maybe some of like the middle parts of New Jersey, but
• 22:56
  for the most part they're just cramming people in here like
• 22:58
  sardines. Yeah, it's unfortunate and it
• 23:02
  ain't that big of a state to begin with.
• 23:03
  So, you know, a little, a little space you got like, man, can you
• 23:08
  at least leave us something here?
• 23:09
  Yeah, so, but So what were the what were the.
• 23:14
  You said there was a building where they had, You said
• 23:16
  sessions. Yes, the sessions.
• 23:18
  Were those like talk about that at all?
• 23:21
  OK, so I wrote out a bunch of notes here because my mind is a
• 23:26
  is like a mess. I can't keep things like
• 23:30
  together, like I'll go from one thing to another.
• 23:33
  So if I don't have any structure, it'd just be like
• 23:36
  what the hell is this guy saying?
• 23:38
  OK, so the sessions they were there were there was like 3
• 23:43
  sessions in a day in the full days anyways, so it was like a
• 23:47
  morning session. Well, first you got up, but we
• 23:50
  got up like like 6:00 AM. It was like still dark out when
• 23:54
  we got up. So we got up, went to go have,
• 23:57
  you know, have breakfast and that's like around like that was
• 24:00
  actually like it experience on its own because like you're not
• 24:04
  just like at a small table, you're like a big table and you
• 24:06
  got the different other people. So you get to talk to different
• 24:09
  people that are some are actually like they're really
• 24:13
  cool. And then there are some that are
• 24:15
  just like, man, I don't know, I don't know about you, because
• 24:21
  like there's like these. It's like one of those things
• 24:23
  where you don't you can't judge by looks because the guy, the
• 24:28
  people that looked kind of crazy, they were actually the
• 24:30
  coolest, more down to earth people.
• 24:33
  And the ones that kind of like like they were like all nicely
• 24:35
  dressed hair slice you cut and they're weird.
• 24:41
  I mean, like, for example, this one guy, he was talking about
• 24:44
  how I'm totally getting off topic, but what he was what he
• 24:50
  talked about was like he went to like some area out in the
• 24:55
  Midwest and his joyfully talking about how he was blowing away
• 24:59
  Prairie dogs with a shotgun and he's actually keeping count.
• 25:02
  And I was just like, I don't know about you, dude.
• 25:07
  All of this while at a, at a Christian retreat too.
• 25:11
  I, I mean, you got to figure like, you know, when we're
• 25:14
  talking about retreats, like we're talking about events that
• 25:16
  are usually held or put on with the intention of growth in that
• 25:22
  spirituality or something, I mean.
• 25:23
  Obviously there's a. Retreat in everything that
• 25:25
  they're going to do. Their programs, I'm sure are
• 25:27
  gonna be heavily, you know, focused in that Christian
• 25:30
  worldview. So, yeah, but like, when you
• 25:33
  get, you know, hundreds of people showing up, I'm sure
• 25:36
  you're gonna get like, those Dahmer types or those, you know,
• 25:39
  Ted Bundy types or whatever that are.
• 25:40
  Like, let me tell you about how many Prairie dogs I blew off
• 25:43
  last week, you know? Yeah, we're sitting there eating
• 25:46
  and he's talking about this and it's like.
• 25:47
  OK dude. Like.
• 25:49
  I had to keep quiet and it's like not yet.
• 25:50
  Like that's great. Then like by in the back of my
• 25:53
  mind, I was like thinking like, I don't really want to get away
• 25:55
  from this guy, but I don't want to leave my, you know,
• 25:58
  father-in-law. I don't want to be seen like a
• 25:59
  douche. So I'm going to stay in this
• 26:02
  smile. And that's the thing.
• 26:04
  I had to like, you know, I don't want to make it sound like I was
• 26:07
  there and like saying like, yeah, man, I'm heathen.
• 26:09
  I'm heathen. No, I kept that secret because
• 26:13
  when I didn't want to embarrass my because like, you know, my
• 26:17
  father-in-law, he's a born and gone Christian and I don't want
• 26:20
  to put him in a place where he has to explain why, you know,
• 26:24
  why is your son-in-law not a Christian?
• 26:27
  Why didn't, why haven't you done anything to get him towards God?
• 26:31
  So I didn't want to put him in that position.
• 26:33
  So I just, and plus I didn't want to have any kinds like like
• 26:36
  you said, there's 400 men there men.
• 26:40
  So there's going to be some that probably want to be
• 26:42
  confrontational. You never know.
• 26:44
  So I just kept a cigarette. I was like undercover, but I'd
• 26:48
  never said anything that made me seem like I was Christian.
• 26:52
  I just like, just kind of like when I started going about the
• 26:56
  Christian teachings, I just kind of like, kept quiet because it's
• 27:00
  not my place. And yeah, I know.
• 27:04
  I just don't want to seem like I'm lying, you know?
• 27:07
  Sure. No, I think that's, I mean, I
• 27:09
  think under the context of of, you know, you going there, I
• 27:13
  think that was probably a really smart move.
• 27:16
  Yeah. Not to out yourself and not to
• 27:18
  seem like, you know, the odd duck out, but just to kind of go
• 27:21
  along with it. And you're, from the sounds of
• 27:23
  it, you weren't the, you weren't the oddest, you know, Huck in
• 27:27
  the in in the bunch there. You know what I mean?
• 27:35
  So yeah, yeah, there's some really cool people there.
• 27:39
  So OK, back to the sessions. So after you had your like, we
• 27:44
  had like morning, afternoon, evening sessions and it lasted
• 27:48
  for a couple hours. Like the morning session.
• 27:51
  This one was a little bit different because what it was
• 27:54
  was that there was like maybe like maybe 45 minutes to an hour
• 28:01
  of like, you know, the, the main speaker and other guest speakers
• 28:05
  getting their talks about like, like their different experiences
• 28:09
  in life, what made them, you know, hurt people.
• 28:13
  And then there's like, then like 45 minutes was set aside, 4:00
• 28:18
  in the morning, a session called alone Time with God where people
• 28:23
  just like went by, went often to wherever they wanted to go by
• 28:26
  themselves with the journal and just wrote down like there's
• 28:28
  like a question given. And you had like kind of like
• 28:32
  like pondered a question and then write it down in your
• 28:35
  notebook in a journal. So you that was like, you know,
• 28:39
  for like Friday, Saturday and Sunday mornings, that's what we
• 28:43
  did. And then you came back and then
• 28:45
  finished off the session. And then you know, you like
• 28:50
  after the morning session, there's like all these
• 28:53
  activities because the idea behind that was behind having
• 28:56
  like all these different activities like blacksmithing,
• 28:59
  skeet shooting, if you wanted to, you could just go and sleep.
• 29:05
  And there was like these nice little, which I should have
• 29:08
  done, but it was it was like this little like hammock type
• 29:12
  thing. And it's right next to like this
• 29:14
  little like stream. And it was like a good sounding
• 29:17
  stream. It's like one of the type of
• 29:19
  stream you just want to sit there and just meditate too.
• 29:22
  And you can do that if you want to.
• 29:25
  But the whole idea of trying these like activities was that
• 29:28
  you just dealt with like some really deep emotional stuff.
• 29:33
  So instead of just like you get it out of you by doing like
• 29:39
  these activities. And I thought that was kind of
• 29:41
  cool. That's an awesome concept where
• 29:43
  you like, you know, some people like they get like the emotional
• 29:47
  things and they just dwell on it and then you don't feel like you
• 29:51
  want to do anything with anything.
• 29:53
  You just want to think on it. But it gets worse.
• 29:55
  So, so this way, I think this way was it's like a good idea
• 29:59
  where you just like you dwell on it, write it down and then you
• 30:04
  got to do some cool stuff and get get like all that activity,
• 30:07
  you know, all that out of you maybe probably even be tired out
• 30:10
  by then. And then there's like the
• 30:13
  afternoon sessions that was like after was all the activities
• 30:19
  done like that. And then like around maybe like
• 30:20
  4:00, 4/30 and then moved on to the afternoon sessions and, you
• 30:28
  know, some more talks, more more in the main speaker talking some
• 30:31
  guests and then go to go to dinner, dinner's done and you go
• 30:36
  to the, you know, like the evening session, same stuff as
• 30:40
  the afternoon and then you go to bed.
• 30:43
  So like what happened with these sessions was that you started
• 30:47
  talking about what it was talking about was like certain
• 30:49
  things like the father wound, the mother wound, the relative
• 30:53
  wound, the friend wound, stuff like that.
• 30:55
  Stuff that kind of like like you experience when you were young
• 31:00
  that you have brought with you into your adulthood that has
• 31:04
  like harmed you, that has like made you, you know, depressed,
• 31:09
  angry and so on. So like, I'm sure we'd like, we
• 31:13
  all come up with those concepts. For me, that was kind of new to
• 31:16
  like even think about that. And it just could be like, I've
• 31:22
  already figured out like what my problem is.
• 31:25
  So it just kind of like helped reinforce that, you know, the
• 31:31
  conclusions that I had come to. So it's helpful in that way.
• 31:37
  And I think like a lot of people like beyond like, you know, if
• 31:40
  you get rid of like the Christian trappings, yeah, you
• 31:43
  you can see that like you can actually use this towards like
• 31:48
  more secular non Christian, you know, application.
• 31:55
  Yeah, like so like the philosophies and the and the the
• 31:58
  stuff behind it could could be applicable regardless of your
• 32:02
  religious views. Yeah, exactly.
• 32:04
  I mean, even like use like different like movie clips.
• 32:10
  I mean, it was kind of like a good idea because a lot of us
• 32:14
  are kind of geared through pop culture and stuff.
• 32:16
  So he, the main speaker, used a lot of movies and not not not
• 32:20
  like just Christian movies. There was like maybe one was
• 32:23
  like called the Shack with the guy who plays Jake Sulley and
• 32:29
  Avatar. But there was also other
• 32:31
  different movies that were there aren't like overtly, they
• 32:35
  weren't even religious. You can even think, but like you
• 32:38
  like look at the eclipse and you're like, huh, never even
• 32:42
  thought about that, 'cause I'm just watching a movie to get
• 32:44
  entertained and I just don't really look deep into it that
• 32:46
  much. Not even many people probably
• 32:49
  don't do that. Oh, man, you're talking about
• 32:51
  stuff that, you know, movies that I grew up watching.
• 32:56
  Like, I, you know, my mom passed away on Father's Day this year
• 33:02
  and one of her favorite movies of all time was Fried Green
• 33:05
  Tomatoes. I don't know if you've ever seen
• 33:06
  it. I think I've seen that one as a
• 33:08
  kid. Yeah, it's got Jessica Tandy,
• 33:10
  Kathy Bates, you know, place in like the Deep South.
• 33:16
  So there's this one scene where one of the main character's best
• 33:21
  friends her like her best friend 'cause it goes back from like
• 33:27
  the, you know, they're reminiscing, right?
• 33:31
  So, so the, the, the main character is, is remembering
• 33:34
  about something from the past. And so at, in that time frame,
• 33:39
  in that past remembrance, you know, that that main character's
• 33:42
  friend had was dying of cancer, like on her deathbed, you know,
• 33:48
  and, and taking her last, taking her last breaths.
• 33:51
  And I've seen this movie dozens of times, you know, from, from
• 33:56
  growing up. And it was again, one of my
• 33:57
  mom's favorite movies and one of the lines of the movie, like
• 34:01
  when I 'cause I watched it the, the night, you know, the, the
• 34:05
  day that my mom passed, 'cause I was like feeling nostalgic,
• 34:08
  like, let's watch something that makes me think of mom.
• 34:11
  Anyway, there's a line and there's a scene in that movie
• 34:14
  where, which like, of all the times that I've seen it, it
• 34:17
  never struck a nerve to me that day.
• 34:22
  I mean, I, it's like a, like open the water faucet.
• 34:25
  Just, you know, the waterworks are, are, are running like
• 34:27
  crazy. Cause the main, you know, like
• 34:29
  that, that friend, that of the main character, she's, she dies
• 34:32
  of cancer and her friend is, is, is crying for her, you know,
• 34:36
  like her best friend just died. One of the, one of the ladies of
• 34:40
  the house that was kind of with her taking care of her is
• 34:44
  comforting that friend. And she says, and the lady who
• 34:47
  passed her name was Ruth, you know, and she was the main
• 34:51
  character. She said you've got to let Miss
• 34:53
  Ruth go because you know Miss Ruth was a lady and a lady
• 34:57
  always knows when to leave. And.
• 35:00
  I, I, when I watched that scene, dude, I'm like, it just 'cause
• 35:06
  it made me think of my mom, you know, how passing and
• 35:09
  everything. And it, it, it struck a nerve.
• 35:11
  So similarly, like, like we can probably have something that
• 35:15
  we've, you know, a favorite movie or a favorite, favorite
• 35:18
  line of a movie that, you know, we've liked or just the
• 35:22
  enjoyment factor. And then years go by or
• 35:25
  something happens in our life and then we rewatch it.
• 35:28
  We we see it through different eyes, through a different.
• 35:30
  Lens. There's like a lesson there for
• 35:32
  us in a way, you know. Yeah, exactly.
• 35:37
  I think that's pretty cool that that's the approach that they
• 35:38
  took, that it wasn't like from at least from the sounds of it,
• 35:42
  it wasn't like, you know, you went down there out in the woods
• 35:45
  and you walk into a building and it was like church 3 days, 3,
• 35:47
  three times a day. You know, you got some dude up
• 35:50
  there with the Bible just being like, you know.
• 35:53
  Yeah, that's the thing. It wasn't like like I thought I
• 35:55
  was like going into it. I thought I was going to fall
• 35:58
  asleep because I was like, like you thought, like you said, I
• 36:02
  thought I was gonna be walking into like church sermons and I
• 36:04
  was gonna be like, Oh my God, I'm gonna go to sleep.
• 36:07
  But no, I mean, if you stripped away all the, you know, like the
• 36:10
  mentions of God and Satan and all that, you had thought you
• 36:13
  were just that like, just like some kind of guy's get together
• 36:17
  or whatever. Yeah.
• 36:20
  Well, you got. Let's do.
• 36:21
  It again if if you got, if you got invited back to it, would
• 36:24
  you get? Would you get?
• 36:24
  Would you do it again? Probably because I know what I'm
• 36:27
  getting into now and my anxiety levels probably won't be so high
• 36:31
  because like, you know, I got like, it's like getting, you
• 36:35
  know, like anxiety, the homesickness.
• 36:38
  Because I just like want to be home with my dogs, my wife and
• 36:40
  all that. And now that I kind of like get
• 36:43
  past anxiety, it probably won't be as bad.
• 36:46
  And I'd probably like do a little bit more because, like, I
• 36:48
  really didn't get to do any of the activities because I didn't
• 36:50
  want to leave my father-in-law by himself.
• 36:54
  So it was like. Yeah, but experience.
• 37:00
  Yeah. So if I can invite, I'll go back
• 37:01
  again. I forgot to talk about like,
• 37:03
  what this whole, what the whole theme was.
• 37:05
  It's basically because, like, it's called the heart of the
• 37:09
  warrior encounter. And the whole idea is to it's
• 37:14
  about men's mental health. And I mean, for, I mean, like,
• 37:18
  it's we live in a weird society where we talk about like, you
• 37:23
  know, masculinity being toxic. But when you talk about toxic
• 37:27
  manual masculinity, it's like those Andrew, that Andrew Tate
• 37:31
  guy, I mean, like, he's like the definition of it.
• 37:35
  But then there's like the masculinity that was like talked
• 37:38
  about here. It's just like, you know, not
• 37:42
  like what you expect. You know, it's not like it's
• 37:46
  hard to explain. It's not like, yeah, man, I'm
• 37:51
  gonna be tough and I'm gonna tough it out or whatever.
• 37:54
  But like I said, we live in a weird society where if we talk
• 37:58
  about, we condemn toxic masculinity and which ends up
• 38:02
  being all kinds of masculinity. But then when a guy comes out
• 38:07
  and says, like, man, I'm feeling depressed.
• 38:10
  Society, just society in general, just says, well, tough
• 38:13
  it out. You're a man.
• 38:14
  So it's like we're getting like two different messages here.
• 38:17
  And that was basically the gist of like this, you know, like
• 38:20
  this, like this convention retreat.
• 38:26
  Yeah. So it's like, yeah.
• 38:29
  There there's a, there's an interesting, like you say, like
• 38:32
  we live in an interesting time. It's, you know, genders get like
• 38:40
  the lines of, of gender identity are so blurred nowadays.
• 38:44
  And I know you know what I'm talking about, you know, where,
• 38:47
  you know, just I, you know, I feel I identify a certain way.
• 38:49
  And so therefore, that's what I am and this and that.
• 38:51
  And you know, don't need to get into the minutiae of of that
• 38:55
  whole thing. But there is a there is a like
• 38:59
  an important thing to take away from the fact that, you know,
• 39:04
  men need to be men. And.
• 39:08
  Men need to be able to be open and vulnerable with other men
• 39:16
  and learn how to control and learn how to manage the things
• 39:21
  that we feel. You know, it's one of the
• 39:23
  beautiful things that that has become what Fire on the Mountain
• 39:26
  is every year. I mean, that is a men's only
• 39:27
  retreat, you know. And when asked about that, you
• 39:30
  know, 'cause inevitably, you know, you get people that were.
• 39:32
  Why is it men only? You know why?
• 39:34
  And. It's like, well, you know, we
• 39:36
  need, you know, men need a place that where they can feel safe
• 39:40
  and open to be vulnerable with each other without feeling like
• 39:45
  they have to be a certain way because a woman is there.
• 39:49
  No. Matter what like we, we, we
• 39:51
  behave differently. We have a demeanor, we have a
• 39:54
  character, we, we have a way of being when it's just the guys
• 39:58
  and and there's a different way that we are when there's it's
• 40:01
  Coed when there's a mixed group there and that's the way I feel
• 40:05
  like it ought to be. You know, I mean, that's proper,
• 40:07
  that's natural. There's nothing inherently wrong
• 40:10
  with that. So getting the chance to.
• 40:14
  Kind of let your hair down and be a man and be vulnerable and
• 40:18
  know that it's a safe space, that it's judgment free and that
• 40:21
  you're going to get something out of it to better yourself and
• 40:24
  become a stronger you is absolutely important and
• 40:28
  critical. And, you know, not just for men,
• 40:30
  I think, you know, this is something for women too.
• 40:32
  And women, you know, like they have the same type of thing.
• 40:37
  So everybody's, you know, needs to have that, I feel.
• 40:42
  And whether you make it a, you know, a Christian themed thing
• 40:46
  or whether it's a open spirituality where there's
• 40:50
  really no one specific focused on the, the religion or this,
• 40:56
  you know what I mean, behind it, Which I mean, even though it was
• 40:59
  a Christian retreat from what you're making it sound like it
• 41:02
  was, you know, it was, it was open enough to where somebody
• 41:06
  who wasn't Christian could get something out of it.
• 41:08
  Yeah, that's the thing. Like that's like the important
• 41:11
  thing. And that's like one of the
• 41:12
  things I wanted to see is like, what can I use?
• 41:15
  What can I learn from this, you know, like, what can I learn
• 41:19
  from them? Because like if Christian, like
• 41:23
  Christians themselves, like especially the Catholics, they
• 41:26
  tend to like Revere, like Pagan philosophers like Aristotle,
• 41:33
  Socrates and all that. Why can't it be a reverse where
• 41:36
  like I can you know, or anyone I'd like a different religion,
• 41:41
  like get some helpful information from what they can
• 41:46
  you know, put forward, you know. Yeah, exactly.
• 41:51
  You know, like, like you said before, like take the, the, the,
• 41:55
  the Christian trappings off of it and realize that, you know,
• 41:59
  philosophically, anybody can be that this could apply to
• 42:05
  anybody. Yeah.
• 42:08
  And, and I, you know, I think, I think that's a really important
• 42:11
  way of going about it 'cause so much of religion gets like they,
• 42:19
  they pigeonhole it, that it, you know, you've got to believe it
• 42:22
  and it's got to be this religious view and that's it.
• 42:26
  Like there's no other acceptable way.
• 42:28
  You know, it's, it's this way or the highway.
• 42:30
  It's black or it's white. They don't have any room for the
• 42:33
  Gray, the Gray area, which is that's where it all happens,
• 42:38
  man. Like, you know, the deal in
• 42:40
  absolutes, like, I don't know, it's, it's limiting to me.
• 42:45
  Like yeah, sure. There there's certain aspects of
• 42:51
  even Heathenry, you know, like there's certain things about it
• 42:53
  that, you know, if you take it and, and go in a dogmatic
• 42:56
  approach, you're limiting it. It, it, it's, you know, you're,
• 43:03
  you're restricting it. I should say maybe not limiting
• 43:05
  it, but it's, it's restrictive. It's, it's, you know, you, you
• 43:07
  can't really go much further than out of, of that barrier
• 43:12
  that, that, that border that it has created.
• 43:14
  You know. And if that works, and if that's
• 43:17
  the, the way that it works for, for, for people that want to
• 43:19
  approach it that way, then OK, fine.
• 43:22
  You know, but like for me, you know, like so much of my growth
• 43:26
  in, in heathenry has been in the Gray, you know, kind of.
• 43:30
  Stepping out. Learning more about other
• 43:33
  philosophies and other teachings and other ways of how these
• 43:39
  ancient civilizations, you know, viewed the world you know.
• 43:42
  What we can. Learn from it kind of like in a
• 43:44
  way, you know, you going to a Christian men's retreat, it's
• 43:47
  you know, that that that sort of Odinic wanderer aspect, you
• 43:51
  know, what can I learn outside of my immediate walls of what I
• 43:56
  am comfortable in, you know, exactly.
• 44:00
  Exactly. I mean, like you think about oh,
• 44:02
  and he like says he wanders and he's a God of wisdom and island.
• 44:07
  And so you're kind of also doing him service when you go out
• 44:11
  beyond like your comfort zone, when you go out and learn a
• 44:15
  little bit more from different people.
• 44:18
  So in a way, it's kind of like a veneration of him.
• 44:20
  And as well, I could go even deeper into like the whole
• 44:28
  latest stuff, especially like, I mean, you think about like how
• 44:33
  let's take the Roman religion for example.
• 44:36
  You know, they had like their own pantheon.
• 44:37
  They had like, you know, their own gods.
• 44:39
  But when they were conquering like these different
• 44:41
  territories, like when they conquered Gaul, they didn't just
• 44:44
  get rid of the gods. They actually accepted some of
• 44:46
  the gods, like opponent of the horse goddess.
• 44:48
  And then when they went to like the Far East, they got Mithras,
• 44:51
  they got all kinds of other different gods.
• 44:53
  They went down to, you know, Alexandria and so on.
• 44:59
  They just accepted all those gods.
• 45:01
  They didn't just like reject them entirely and they just.
• 45:04
  Right, Yeah, they weren't abolished.
• 45:07
  And. That's that's one of the reasons
• 45:10
  why I personally enjoy the writings of Tacitus, because
• 45:16
  Tacitus was a Roman Pagan. You know.
• 45:19
  He wasn't trying to write from the perspective of a Christian
• 45:24
  monk, and there was no bias there.
• 45:26
  He was just documenting things the way the Germanic tribes
• 45:29
  were. And he was, you know, relating
• 45:32
  to it because of the similarities or to the nuances
• 45:35
  of of his paganism, you know, as a Roman, you know, so he would,
• 45:40
  you know, refer to their gods and he would say, you know, the
• 45:42
  which, you know, we would call Mercury or Mars or whatever, you
• 45:45
  know what I mean? Like he would have that relation
• 45:48
  that that relative understanding of the way they saw things.
• 45:51
  And it was just a different name, you know, for the same
• 45:55
  thing. We're calling them.
• 45:56
  Different names, but ultimately the, the essence of it, the,
• 46:00
  the, the spirit of it, if you will, was almost identical.
• 46:06
  So, you know, getting to travel, getting to see things, being
• 46:12
  open and willing to kind of step out of that box.
• 46:19
  It's a great opportunity for folks to to take and, and learn,
• 46:25
  you know, and then you can apply what was what were some of the
• 46:27
  things that you left that retreat from having learned that
• 46:31
  you could apply? So, so OK, I know my notes here.
• 46:39
  So like they have like a different kind of like a bunch
• 46:41
  of like little different concepts.
• 46:43
  Like, like there's like the breaking down of potential
• 46:48
  sources, like you're different where like you had your where
• 46:51
  you got danger issues. But like these like little
• 46:54
  tidbits of wisdom I caught was like judgement is a boomerang.
• 46:59
  That actually makes sense if you think about it like you're
• 47:03
  judging people, but they're also judging you.
• 47:06
  So it just goes back and forth and just kind of kind of like
• 47:09
  builds up. And another thing was listening
• 47:11
  is healing, which really struck me, especially like when we were
• 47:16
  in like the Highland group where even if you don't have any
• 47:22
  problems, even if you don't have, like you can't, you know,
• 47:28
  you didn't, don't have, you don't share the same experiences
• 47:31
  that other person is having issues, but just you listening
• 47:35
  and you just like saying like just maybe like a little couple
• 47:39
  words, I encourage and saying like, you know what, you got
• 47:42
  this, we're here with you, we got your back.
• 47:44
  That's all that's needed because you're still listening, which is
• 47:48
  helping the other person heal. And then this last piece, this
• 47:53
  kind of touches in what we just talked about with like
• 47:56
  exploration. Life is found when you explore.
• 47:59
  It's like life is not a stagnant pool.
• 48:03
  And if you just swallow in there, you just start to get
• 48:06
  filthy and smell. So you got to get out of that.
• 48:09
  You got to go forward and you just keep on building on onto
• 48:13
  like your experiences, onto your personal philosophies or beliefs
• 48:18
  and you just keep going and it just kind of like builds up
• 48:21
  around you like all this goodness if you just go out and
• 48:24
  explore. And it makes sense, especially
• 48:28
  when I did this whole thing, going to the retreat, it like I
• 48:33
  learned some new things. I learned about other people
• 48:36
  like what they think, what they feel, how they act.
• 48:39
  Because you get like this, you get into like this tendency to
• 48:42
  see like this one-dimensional view of Christianity.
• 48:48
  And like, I remember just like a couple months ago, you had some
• 48:50
  guy that was like complaining that you say you were, said you
• 48:53
  were attacking Christianity or something.
• 48:56
  And yeah, remember that comment? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 49:01
  And it's just like, well, for one, I don't understand where
• 49:05
  you got that from because you've never done that.
• 49:09
  But I don't know where the hell is going with that.
• 49:13
  There's a lot of country. Sorry man, it's been a long day.
• 49:17
  I wonder too sometimes that, you know, it's like, are you just,
• 49:19
  are you just like seeing the fact that you know, the imagery
• 49:22
  or the name of the channel or, you know, are you just like
• 49:26
  letting the algorithm point you in a direction and then you're
• 49:29
  trolling me, you know, like the deal here, like, cause clearly
• 49:33
  you, you don't know anything about me, if that's what you're
• 49:35
  saying. Your.
• 49:37
  Accusations are are, you know, they, they, they're not based on
• 49:40
  any actual facts, so. And I think it was like a really
• 49:44
  an assumption on his part, on his part that like, you know,
• 49:47
  people who are not Christians see Christianity as like
• 49:50
  one-dimensional, kind of, I think that's where I was going
• 49:53
  as A1 dimensional thing, but without knowing.
• 49:58
  Same way. What's that?
• 50:00
  Like as in as in, all Christians are thinking the same way.
• 50:04
  Yeah, but it was like a whole different, like, even like they
• 50:11
  like, the main thing that preaches them together is to,
• 50:14
  you know, Christianity. But they all had like, different
• 50:16
  views on different things. And I think it was helpful
• 50:19
  because helpful like, because like this, you know, it wasn't
• 50:25
  one, just one denomination. It wasn't just Roman Catholics.
• 50:27
  It wasn't evangelists, it wasn't Protestants.
• 50:29
  It's all like these different Christians coming together.
• 50:32
  They all have like different ideas, like minor ideas about
• 50:37
  Christianity, but they all come together on the one point, you
• 50:40
  know, focal point God, Jesus and all that stuff.
• 50:45
  But it's interesting to see that dynamic going on, you know, but
• 50:50
  you know, different ideas of how I like to approach Christianity.
• 50:53
  But they're respectful enough to not get into fights about it and
• 50:59
  able to see that like they have like the commonality, the
• 51:02
  commonality that bridge them together.
• 51:05
  And I think that's also what I wanted to find too, because I'm
• 51:08
  always about bridging all these different faiths to faiths
• 51:12
  together because like, let's face it, we're not going
• 51:15
  anywhere. None of us, none of our police
• 51:17
  are going anywhere unless you strictly outlaw it.
• 51:20
  But even then that doesn't help because that just makes people
• 51:23
  want to believe it anymore because you look at like.
• 51:26
  Yeah, it's like that. It's not.
• 51:31
  Sorry to interrupt, but you made me think of that.
• 51:32
  Like that line from the from the the.
• 51:34
  Do you watch the Office? Not so much.
• 51:39
  OK, well, this, this might not hit a nerve, but there's a
• 51:41
  there's a like there's a part in there where like Michael Scott
• 51:43
  is dating the mother of the receptionist Pam.
• 51:47
  And and Pam's pissed, you know, when she finds out she's like,
• 51:52
  don't ever date. You're not dating my mother.
• 51:55
  And then Michael's like, you know what?
• 51:57
  I'm just going to date her harder now because when you said
• 52:01
  what you said, it's like, yeah, you tell somebody not to do
• 52:03
  something. Well, what's the first almost
• 52:05
  knee jerk reaction? Yeah, I'm.
• 52:07
  Going to go do that. Yeah, exactly.
• 52:10
  It would be even harder you. Know it's like, why don't you
• 52:13
  want me to do that? Let me go see why you don't want
• 52:15
  me to do that. Yeah, yeah.
• 52:17
  I mean, there were times when I was a kid and, you know, parents
• 52:19
  said, you know, don't go here, don't touch that, don't do this.
• 52:22
  What did I do? I went there.
• 52:24
  I touched it, you know. Yeah, like for me, because like
• 52:29
  I grew up like around like the Cold War era.
• 52:31
  So like the whole idea of communism was like it's evil and
• 52:35
  all that stuff. And then what did I go do when
• 52:39
  I'm a young adult, I become a communist.
• 52:41
  I was like, I had to know why. Why do I hate?
• 52:45
  Why am I supposed to hate this? So I learned about it and I just
• 52:48
  like, you know, at first I was like, you know, people equal and
• 52:51
  having all these equal status. And but then I started like
• 52:54
  looking at the history of it and I was like, yeah, maybe this is
• 52:56
  not such a good idea. I mean, like, if you believe in
• 52:59
  it, I'm totally cool with that as long as you're not trying to
• 53:03
  impose it on me. I mean, like, that's my personal
• 53:05
  philosophy. I don't care what you believe
• 53:08
  in. I don't, I mean like, unless
• 53:12
  you're a Nazi, I think that's where I draw the line.
• 53:15
  But if you're not trying to hurt people and your ideology doesn't
• 53:18
  say like to directly hurt people, I'm I'm kind of, I'm
• 53:23
  fine with it. You do you, like you say, like
• 53:27
  your call, your call. Yeah, it, it, it fits in so many
• 53:32
  different applications. Like it it's it's it's kind of a
• 53:36
  mantra that you could just apply to anything.
• 53:38
  And you know, I, I, I wonder with as many people as have gone
• 53:43
  to this thing that you went to, you know, you have to wonder if
• 53:48
  there are more undercover pagans if, as it were, you know what I
• 53:53
  mean? What, who, who else was there
• 53:55
  because their in law or their friend or whatever invited them
• 53:59
  to it. And they, you know, we're like,
• 54:01
  well, whatever, I'll just go because, you know, I want to
• 54:03
  hang out with this, that or the person or the other.
• 54:05
  And they themselves not a Christian, you know what I mean?
• 54:08
  Like you don't know. And it's interesting to to see
• 54:12
  how you know, sure, like, yes, it's a Christian retreat and and
• 54:17
  the majority of the attendees there were probably of some sort
• 54:20
  of Christian denomination, But even in Christianity you've got
• 54:25
  many denominations. And so you know what what the
• 54:29
  what the Methodists think about one thing is going to be
• 54:32
  slightly different than the way the Baptists think about it.
• 54:35
  Or the. Or the Episcopalians or the
• 54:38
  Catholics or, you know, with this or that.
• 54:40
  And, you know, sharing space with people that have different
• 54:45
  beliefs has has been kind of the theme here a lot on the on the
• 54:49
  podcast this season. A lot of it goes back to, you
• 54:53
  know, like you, what, you know, you went there and you weren't
• 54:56
  trying to, you know, it's like you didn't wear, I don't know,
• 54:59
  maybe you did or didn't, but like, you know, openly admit or
• 55:02
  openly show that you're heathen, like wear a hammer your neck
• 55:05
  when you're sitting here with a bunch of guys and they're
• 55:07
  talking about, you know, God and, and Christianity and it's
• 55:11
  like, well, what's that thing around your neck?
• 55:13
  And then it sparks a conversation.
• 55:14
  It becomes a whole bit that you now have to deal with.
• 55:18
  Not like that right there. So there's it goes back to this
• 55:21
  mutual respect, right? I'm me, I'm doing my thing and
• 55:24
  I'm here for my own reasons. And you know, hopefully one of
• 55:28
  those reasons is not to be a jerk to everybody else who's
• 55:30
  there for their own reasons, right.
• 55:31
  Not trying to trying to be confrontational, you know, and
• 55:36
  just learning what you can, seeing what you can learn out of
• 55:39
  it. Yeah, No, I think that's the, I
• 55:44
  think that's more of what needs to happen.
• 55:48
  I think if people got, you know, and you know, maybe there's more
• 55:51
  of it out there than I realize, but you know, if people were a
• 55:54
  bit more open minded to the opportunities that stuff like
• 55:58
  this can present for them, you know, So what if it's a just
• 56:01
  take Christianity out of it? So it's a it's a men's retreat.
• 56:04
  Right. Yeah.
• 56:07
  Maybe that's what you need as a man, right?
• 56:09
  Or whatever. Like that's what you would need
• 56:10
  to go and say, 'cause everything that you're talking about, like
• 56:12
  what you said that the theme was something about a warrior, what
• 56:16
  was it called? Yeah, Like, yeah, it's called
• 56:18
  the heart of a warrior encounter, which is like
• 56:20
  basically trying to reclaim like your masculinity in modern
• 56:24
  times, but not being like, yeah, stereotypical toxic masculinity.
• 56:30
  Yeah, but that that that strength, that grace.
• 56:34
  Yeah. That, that, that, that, that the
• 56:37
  tactical, you know what I mean? Being a tactician, being kind,
• 56:44
  being, you know, like all of these things that you know,
• 56:47
  it's, it's not, you know, to be a man.
• 56:49
  It's not just, you know, out here and and beat your chest
• 56:51
  like a gorilla and see, you know who can crap the loudest?
• 56:55
  Whatever, you know what I mean? Like, that's that ain't it, man.
• 56:58
  That ain't it, my guy. Like you said, you know
• 57:01
  sometimes it just takes to listen to shut up and listen.
• 57:05
  Yeah. Yeah, go ahead.
• 57:10
  Yeah, so like you kind of almost got like what?
• 57:13
  Like basically what I'd like to be like one of the main
• 57:17
  imageries that was on at like this at this retreat was
• 57:22
  Braveheart. Yeah.
• 57:23
  Like the like, the like on the posters they had like the
• 57:26
  claymore Scottish swords. So that's what they were basing
• 57:30
  them off around like. And you like if you were.
• 57:34
  And they showed some clips of that and it just made sense.
• 57:38
  And it's basically kind of like you said, just like not beating
• 57:44
  your chest but also but having some kind of strength of will
• 57:49
  and character and try and make the good of it instead of us
• 57:55
  like being a total douche bag for lack of a better term.
• 58:01
  Yeah, I mean, look like nobody's gonna, nobody's going to.
• 58:08
  And I'm not saying like this is the, the, the, the what you
• 58:11
  should be like trying to do in terms of, you know, we don't,
• 58:14
  don't do what you're doing so that people are gonna follow
• 58:18
  you, but do the things that like be the change that you want to
• 58:25
  see happen. And.
• 58:27
  Then what naturally ends up happening by default, because
• 58:32
  you're doing it that way, is those individuals who share in
• 58:38
  that vision that you have that that want to be the change that
• 58:41
  they want to see will align with you.
• 58:43
  And then next thing you know, you have this this tribe, you
• 58:46
  have this, this, this sub unit of a family that can, you know,
• 58:52
  be there for you when you need it.
• 58:54
  That can be that listening ear, that can be that shoulder to cry
• 58:57
  on. That can be that shield wall to
• 59:00
  be beside you when you're facing the the tough stuff, You know
• 59:03
  what I mean? Yeah.
• 59:04
  It's not because it's not because you're doing it so that
• 59:07
  way. Oh, I got all these followers
• 59:08
  behind me that that, you know, I can lead them and this and that.
• 59:12
  You're putting yourself really kind of in, in the forefront of
• 59:16
  the worst of it, right? Like putting yourself through
• 59:19
  the worst of it and enduring the worst of it to be conditioned to
• 59:24
  take it on. And then again, those of like
• 59:27
  minds and those of a similar enough of a similar approach to
• 59:32
  things will see that, hey, this is this is a man who I could
• 59:38
  follow. This is a man who I can get
• 59:40
  behind. This is a man who I could stand
• 59:41
  beside. There is strength here.
• 59:43
  There is wisdom here. There is a stoic resolve.
• 59:48
  There is grace. There's all these things.
• 59:50
  That's what you know, I feel is, you know, to to to be a man is,
• 59:56
  you know, not not being this authoritarian dictator prick.
• 1:00:00
  You know what I mean? Like.
• 1:00:02
  Exactly you. Know you're gonna lose every
• 1:00:04
  time if that's if that's your approach on it.
• 1:00:08
  What kind of sucks is like, like we got so like into like this
• 1:00:12
  trappings of like what masculinity is because of like
• 1:00:15
  how society portrays it to us. But then we have a hard time,
• 1:00:19
  you know, when you how do you see masculinity?
• 1:00:23
  And it's like, it's like, it's hard to describe it, you know,
• 1:00:28
  like accurate terms because it's not like how like, you know,
• 1:00:33
  Andrew Tate and all those morons out there like who exude like
• 1:00:37
  this false sense of like masculinity and buzz.
• 1:00:44
  What we're, what you and I are talking about, what we're
• 1:00:47
  putting out there is like what it is, what real masculinity is.
• 1:00:51
  And it's such a hard thing because it's like going down
• 1:00:54
  like this really long branching Rd. you go into One Direction to
• 1:00:58
  the other and to the other direction.
• 1:01:01
  I mean, it really shouldn't be. I mean, like, where do we go
• 1:01:04
  wrong with this? You know?
• 1:01:06
  And that's like always my issue trying to figure out where did
• 1:01:10
  everything go to hell, what is causing it and why can't we get
• 1:01:15
  back to it or why is it so hard to get back to it.
• 1:01:19
  And I don't have the answers. If I had the answers I'd
• 1:01:22
  probably have self help gurus or whatever, but I don't.
• 1:01:27
  Be a happy hell. Yeah.
• 1:01:28
  I mean, that'd be a hell of a podcast.
• 1:01:30
  And, you know, I think that's that's, that's part of the
• 1:01:32
  beauty of it is that, you know, folks like us who can admit we
• 1:01:39
  don't have the answer, not yet, but we are collectively doing
• 1:01:45
  things that are in search of the answer or in search of an
• 1:01:51
  answer. You know, maybe maybe it's not a
• 1:01:54
  one-size-fits-all sort of a thing, But maybe there's enough
• 1:02:00
  out there that when we, you know, the the bits and pieces
• 1:02:03
  that we collectively bring back to the camp, you know, it's like
• 1:02:07
  that old, you know, hunter gatherer culture.
• 1:02:11
  That's what the men were in ancient civilizations.
• 1:02:13
  You know, they, they went out and they did the hunting and the
• 1:02:16
  gathering and they brought it back to the tribe.
• 1:02:18
  And then, you know, the tribe benefited from it in a way.
• 1:02:23
  That's an awesome analogy. I like that.
• 1:02:26
  Yeah. Like, you know, I mean, maybe in
• 1:02:27
  a way, you know, going to these types of things, going on these
• 1:02:30
  retreats, going on these excursions, these these, these,
• 1:02:33
  these moments where we're kind of forced to separate from
• 1:02:37
  everyday life that we're a customer used to.
• 1:02:42
  That is that is our way of going out and gathering.
• 1:02:49
  You know, like maybe we're not literally hunting for food, for
• 1:02:53
  our physical food. We're not going out on a on a
• 1:02:55
  hunt, but we are going hunting for something to feed us.
• 1:02:59
  Yeah. Like spiritual food?
• 1:03:02
  Yeah, you know, and then we bring it back and we talk about
• 1:03:06
  it in platforms like this or, or in our own respective circles,
• 1:03:09
  right. If it's something of, of, of a
• 1:03:12
  more private nature, we, we, we talk to people about it around
• 1:03:16
  the, the table around dinner time or around a campfire maybe.
• 1:03:20
  Or, you know, we have those, we have those moments of, and I've,
• 1:03:25
  I've, I've experienced that, you know, like I've gone on things
• 1:03:28
  and then I, I come back and I, and I get, you know, text
• 1:03:31
  messages or phone calls from people.
• 1:03:32
  And it's like, man, I'd love to hear about that experience if
• 1:03:35
  you'd like to talk about it, you know?
• 1:03:37
  And then I get that opportunity to bring it to them and tell
• 1:03:39
  them like, it's. Yeah.
• 1:03:41
  It's almost like a, a, a sort of metaphysical way of, of bringing
• 1:03:46
  back your trophy, you know, showing your people what you
• 1:03:50
  were able to do. And it's not to boast or to brag
• 1:03:53
  so much as it is to be like, I learned this now, can you learn
• 1:03:58
  something from this, too? Does this apply?
• 1:04:00
  Can can you take this food and feed yourself with it, you know?
• 1:04:05
  Yeah. It's also that we come to this
• 1:04:07
  point because like earlier in the day I was like thinking
• 1:04:10
  like, why am I doing this? It's like that and the whole
• 1:04:12
  anxiety in the back of your head.
• 1:04:13
  It's like, why are you doing this?
• 1:04:16
  Do you really need to be doing this?
• 1:04:18
  Is this be like? But then I like answered and I
• 1:04:21
  said like it's through all like the ramblings.
• 1:04:24
  My my anxiety ridden ramblings can get to someone that's
• 1:04:29
  watching this and they can like maybe take a little piece of it
• 1:04:34
  and maybe like, maybe we're in like a really bad place and they
• 1:04:38
  just think on that one little tiny piece that really spoke to
• 1:04:42
  him and it makes them just a tad bit better.
• 1:04:45
  Why not? You know, I mean, I don't know
• 1:04:50
  if people are going to look at this and like think like I'm a
• 1:04:52
  rambling mess. But like I said, I'm anxiety
• 1:04:55
  ridden this. I mean, like when I put myself
• 1:04:59
  into like, you know, in two situations, I start, I it just
• 1:05:05
  nags at my head all day and it becomes tired.
• 1:05:08
  You know, I get tired, actually, I get physically tired.
• 1:05:10
  I'll be sleeping like a baby yet tonight.
• 1:05:13
  But where does it go with this? Like see, that's the problem.
• 1:05:19
  Now I get it man. And, and, and I do want to say,
• 1:05:22
  though, considering that that is something that you contend with
• 1:05:27
  or, or, or battle with, I think it's, I think it's a real
• 1:05:30
  testament to your resolve and, and your strength to go through
• 1:05:36
  with it anyway to, to, to step out of that comfort zone and to
• 1:05:39
  be here and, and talk about these things.
• 1:05:43
  And there's no expectation, you know, like it, you know, but I
• 1:05:46
  know what you mean. Like you think I gotta have it,
• 1:05:49
  You know, all my IS dotted and my TS crossed.
• 1:05:51
  Like, guess what, man? Sometimes my sentences are I
• 1:05:54
  sometimes I misspell half the words that I'm typing out here.
• 1:05:58
  Probably right. Like sometimes my IS are are are
• 1:06:01
  cues. And you know.
• 1:06:02
  And like it, it, it happens, but that's, that's, you know, the
• 1:06:05
  beauty of it is that you're, we're doing it, we're doing
• 1:06:07
  something. And the beauty is in the, the
• 1:06:09
  imperfections along the way. It makes it feel more organic
• 1:06:13
  and makes it feel more natural. The fact that we can stumble
• 1:06:16
  along together and not be judgmental about it is, I think
• 1:06:22
  a beautiful thing. It, it shows all reality of just
• 1:06:26
  how we are, how we process things, like things that you
• 1:06:28
  talked about makes me think and then I talk about it and makes
• 1:06:31
  you think and it's this back and forth exchange happening
• 1:06:36
  literally in real time and then people.
• 1:06:38
  Exactly. Will watch it later.
• 1:06:40
  So congratulations, man. Look, you, you, you're doing
• 1:06:42
  great on this show and I appreciate you just being.
• 1:06:46
  I appreciate being all here, man.
• 1:06:47
  This is actually, I mean, like, you know, as I've been like a
• 1:06:51
  couple other times, like the past couple years where I was
• 1:06:54
  supposed to be on your show and I I'm going to be honest, I
• 1:06:57
  fucking chickened out. I mean, I got like that anxiety
• 1:07:01
  in my head and it just really knocked me for a loop and that's
• 1:07:05
  all. I want to apologize for that.
• 1:07:07
  It's not fair to you and not fair to me actually as well.
• 1:07:11
  So because I lost out on an experience, you know, so like
• 1:07:16
  that's why I want by this year had to be a year where I just
• 1:07:22
  said fuck it and just, you know. Do it, Yeah.
• 1:07:27
  Even no matter how like intensely my anxiety is, I just
• 1:07:31
  got to do it. I did it.
• 1:07:35
  I hope I can get to do it again like these days.
• 1:07:38
  Oh, for sure. And you know, man, I always
• 1:07:42
  count these types of things when I hear about them.
• 1:07:46
  They're victories, you know what I'm saying?
• 1:07:48
  Like you have achieved a victory and that's victories are meant
• 1:07:53
  to be celebrated. And now, you know, you can
• 1:07:56
  celebrate a victor yourself. But then everybody that hears
• 1:07:59
  this and watches this can celebrate alongside with you and
• 1:08:03
  be, you know, congratulatory of your bravery and then that can
• 1:08:07
  inspire them. So look what you've done.
• 1:08:10
  You know what I mean? Like.
• 1:08:11
  Look. I, without even thinking about
• 1:08:13
  it, without even trying to by default it, it becomes an
• 1:08:15
  inspiration to others. And, you know, one of the things
• 1:08:21
  that I think about when it comes to retreats, it's I, I, I think
• 1:08:25
  I maybe mentioned it before you came on camera, but we, we,
• 1:08:28
  we've talked a little bit about it.
• 1:08:29
  It's, you know, retreats are designed to separate you from
• 1:08:35
  mundane, you know, day-to-day activities that you're used to,
• 1:08:40
  to being in, you know, you went to a space that had little to no
• 1:08:43
  cell phone reception. So you were quite literally, you
• 1:08:46
  know, attached from that technology.
• 1:08:50
  You couldn't communicate, you couldn't update your your social
• 1:08:53
  media, you couldn't stay in tune with the outside world like
• 1:08:57
  that. So you were forced to be
• 1:08:59
  immersive in the environment that you were in.
• 1:09:03
  And like Fire on the Mountain when I go every year, like,
• 1:09:05
  yeah, sure there is, there is electricity and there is, you
• 1:09:08
  know, the ability to connect to the outside world.
• 1:09:13
  But there's, there's plenty of opportunity to, to, to not be,
• 1:09:18
  you know, you mentioned earlier about, you know, lessons or
• 1:09:21
  sessions and then going and doing physical activity.
• 1:09:24
  Yeah, there, there's so much of that that happens at, at, at, at
• 1:09:28
  Fire on the Mountain. There is, you know,
• 1:09:30
  introspection. There is these, you know,
• 1:09:32
  declarations of purpose to say what it is that we're here for
• 1:09:35
  and to sort of outline it all and make it a, a, you know, map
• 1:09:39
  it all out. And there's that.
• 1:09:41
  Yeah, and. There and there's.
• 1:09:43
  That declaration of purpose. Yeah, right.
• 1:09:47
  To, to, to let everybody know why you're here, right.
• 1:09:49
  What do you mean? What's what's the purpose of
• 1:09:51
  this thing that you're, you're to attend.
• 1:09:54
  But then you know, and then there's that there's that moment
• 1:09:57
  of healing, there's that moment of, you know, medicine work,
• 1:10:01
  there's all these things that happened.
• 1:10:02
  And then following that, usually there is physical activities to
• 1:10:07
  do. There's hikes, there's, there's,
• 1:10:08
  there's stuff to do out in nature that puts you in a frame
• 1:10:10
  of mind of like, OK, I, I went through this whole ordeal.
• 1:10:15
  I went through this, you know, really in my mind or with other
• 1:10:19
  people, like, and sort of letting your hair down and being
• 1:10:22
  vulnerable. But now, you know, we're not
• 1:10:24
  just sitting around in a Hut or in a tent around a fire and
• 1:10:27
  having to like smolder and, and marinate in our own thoughts.
• 1:10:31
  We're out doing things. We're out putting, you know,
• 1:10:34
  physical exertion of, of energy into our, into our lives.
• 1:10:38
  We're doing things that kind of almost push us beyond our
• 1:10:41
  comfort zone in a physical way, right?
• 1:10:42
  Whether it's a hike or whether it's a cold water immersion or
• 1:10:45
  whether, you know, whatever it is, you're all done in in, in
• 1:10:50
  the IT by design. It's to do though, and it's to
• 1:10:54
  do that thing that pushes you outside of that comfort zone.
• 1:10:57
  It gives the ability to say, I've achieved this thing.
• 1:11:02
  I've, I've, I've won this victory and it empowers you and
• 1:11:06
  it, and it not only empowers you in the moment, but it, it
• 1:11:09
  empowers you thereafter. You can take that experience.
• 1:11:13
  You can take everything that you've felt in that moment and
• 1:11:18
  apply it for the future. And it kind of builds the
• 1:11:22
  momentum with it. Yeah, or the way we look at it
• 1:11:26
  is, is, you know, we are, we are carriers of this fire.
• 1:11:30
  This fire on the mountain doesn't stay on the mountain.
• 1:11:33
  We go here and we carry this flame and we, we, we are the
• 1:11:37
  carriers of that fire, you know, so we use that to illuminate and
• 1:11:42
  enlighten others and, and, and inspire others and, and, and
• 1:11:45
  that sort of thing. And it's become a very
• 1:11:48
  interactive and immersive thing. You know, it, it started off
• 1:11:51
  four years ago as, as you know, two guys meeting together and,
• 1:11:55
  and sharing and ceremony. And then and it's, you know,
• 1:11:58
  this year it's become a, a, a fully immersive interactive
• 1:12:01
  thing with multiple cultures and, and, and customs interwoven
• 1:12:05
  traditionally. You know, you've got Norse,
• 1:12:08
  Germanic stuff, we've got Toltec traditions being intervaled.
• 1:12:12
  We've got, you know, indigenous American native customs and
• 1:12:15
  things. And it's all being, you know,
• 1:12:18
  mixed in this pot, you know, as a heathen, you know, we talk
• 1:12:20
  about this, you know, the, the, the well of, of weird or the
• 1:12:23
  well of, of Hooters, you know, and, and what or log is and,
• 1:12:27
  and, and adding to the well. And, and that's philosophically
• 1:12:32
  as, as a heathen, that's kind of what we understand it to be.
• 1:12:37
  But other cultures have different words for it or
• 1:12:39
  different understandings for it. And we're getting to, to
• 1:12:41
  experience all that. And even in the Christian
• 1:12:44
  context, you know, like faith without works is dead.
• 1:12:49
  You can believe all you want. If you're not doing it, you're
• 1:12:52
  what do you, what do you really, what are you even doing?
• 1:12:55
  You know you can, you can know all this scripture, you can
• 1:12:58
  spout all these verses. Well, if you're not living, if
• 1:13:00
  you're not experiencing, you're not.
• 1:13:01
  But if you're not being alive in it, what good is it?
• 1:13:07
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 1:13:10
  That's why you see like a lot of like, not to bash on Christians.
• 1:13:14
  I don't want to bash on them. But you do have your, your milk
• 1:13:18
  toast. Christians who just like they go
• 1:13:20
  to church on Sundays, but they really don't do anything.
• 1:13:24
  I mean, like, I can at least say that like my father-in-law, he
• 1:13:28
  does try to do stuff because like for a while we were, we did
• 1:13:32
  do a volunteer thing from like 2018 to 2020.
• 1:13:36
  You can, you can imagine why it ended 2020.
• 1:13:38
  I don't know what happened then, but we used to go to like mainly
• 1:13:46
  Trenton, NJ, but we used to go to like areas that were very
• 1:13:50
  like really impoverished. And we just like was, it was
• 1:13:53
  kind of like a dual thing 'cause it's called Valor Clinic and it
• 1:13:56
  was for like helping homeless and at risk veterans.
• 1:14:00
  But it was also like another part of it where it helped like
• 1:14:03
  just for like regular civilians. So we're kind of like, you know,
• 1:14:07
  you know, veterans got like these like the newer stuff and
• 1:14:11
  you know, like civilians got this other stuff.
• 1:14:13
  It wasn't like crappy stuff. It was really good stuff.
• 1:14:15
  I mean, but that was like, that was like one of the things where
• 1:14:20
  I realized my anxiety, like I kind of just another thing where
• 1:14:23
  I just like kicked my anxiety to the side and I started, you have
• 1:14:26
  to like walk these people around you have like kind of like a
• 1:14:29
  checklist and you check off like for like kind of like making
• 1:14:34
  like seem like you checked off what they took because you
• 1:14:38
  wanted to make sure that in the future you had more of that
• 1:14:40
  stuff. If like more of a certain item
• 1:14:43
  was going like say a pair of pants was going out more than
• 1:14:45
  like a, you know, T-shirts or his long sleeve shirts.
• 1:14:49
  So you walked around this checklist.
• 1:14:51
  But then, you know, for me, it was kind of awkward just
• 1:14:54
  standing there silently checking off stuff.
• 1:14:57
  So I just struck up conversation with them and I made a couple of
• 1:15:00
  friends off of it. It was like this one veteran.
• 1:15:03
  He was just like, where's my guy at?
• 1:15:05
  I want him to take me around. And so I was like, I'm right
• 1:15:08
  here. I'm free.
• 1:15:09
  And it was like a really cool experience.
• 1:15:12
  I mean, you got to meet all kinds of different people and
• 1:15:17
  it's like, once again, like that whole idea that like just
• 1:15:21
  treating them as you want to be treated yourself like a human
• 1:15:25
  being, if that helped them, that's awesome.
• 1:15:29
  I mean, there's no amount of money that you can pay me that
• 1:15:33
  would make me feel as good as I did in helping these people.
• 1:15:38
  I mean, it's such as simple as that.
• 1:15:42
  Yeah, yeah, 'cause I mean, you can't, again, you can't put a
• 1:15:46
  price to that. Yeah.
• 1:15:47
  You know, you know that the, the knowing that what you gave them
• 1:15:51
  is invaluable or the, you know, how it made them feel was
• 1:15:57
  something that couldn't carry a price tag.
• 1:16:00
  And that, and that's, you know, so much about, I mean that.
• 1:16:05
  Yeah, sure, you could say that. That's a, you know, talking
• 1:16:10
  about like world views and values of, of, of different
• 1:16:13
  beliefs. You know, you were talking about
• 1:16:15
  how, you know, bashing on Christians or because they
• 1:16:17
  don't, they don't, they don't really live that life.
• 1:16:19
  You know, they, they go to church on Sunday and then the
• 1:16:22
  rest of the week it's, you know, fuck all.
• 1:16:26
  Yeah. There's plenty of, I mean that,
• 1:16:27
  and that's just people in general.
• 1:16:28
  Like there's plenty of people that like the idea of what they
• 1:16:31
  believe in. Say the same thing about
• 1:16:33
  heathens too. You know, how many heathens know
• 1:16:36
  what bloat is and how many heathens really take to heart
• 1:16:40
  the values of, you know, these, these worldviews, things like
• 1:16:44
  hospitality, things like the gifting cycle, things like, you
• 1:16:48
  know, all of the various fundamentally heathen concepts
• 1:16:53
  with, you know, conceptual worldviews and, and morals and
• 1:16:58
  ethics and things like that. It's more than just, you know,
• 1:17:01
  wearing a hammer and and saying hail four and and celebrating
• 1:17:05
  Yule. Yeah, you know.
• 1:17:08
  What I mean like it's, it's, it's more than all of that.
• 1:17:11
  And so, you know, sure, you could say, you know, well, the
• 1:17:14
  Christians are this or that, you know, that's people.
• 1:17:17
  And you know, if, if you live, if you believe in it, I feel
• 1:17:21
  that you're going to live it because leave means to be alive.
• 1:17:27
  So if I believe in something that I'm going to be alive in
• 1:17:30
  it, I'm going to, it's going to, it's going to be reflected in my
• 1:17:32
  lifestyle, 'cause that's what I believe in.
• 1:17:37
  Like, I mean, that's what's at my, in my heart.
• 1:17:40
  So my lifestyle is going to reflect that.
• 1:17:43
  It's not a flex. It's not a, it's not a, a brag
• 1:17:45
  or anything to be like, well, Leah, look at me.
• 1:17:47
  No, it's just, shouldn't we all be that way?
• 1:17:50
  Shouldn't we all be that convicted in, in what we believe
• 1:17:52
  in? If we say we believe in
• 1:17:53
  something, then shouldn't we be alive in it?
• 1:17:56
  Yeah, I totally got railed off my wrong, my wrong comment.
• 1:18:00
  Like what was getting to is that, you know, even though my
• 1:18:09
  father-in-law, I mean, he tries hard and like, that's why he got
• 1:18:13
  into this into like the whole volunteering thing was to, you
• 1:18:18
  know, live it, you know, live in the footsteps of Jesus Christ to
• 1:18:23
  go and help like the needy and the poor.
• 1:18:27
  But there's like other people out there and you look at them,
• 1:18:30
  they're just like, they don't do anything.
• 1:18:32
  They don't want to help and but they'll go to church and do all
• 1:18:36
  that stuff. Yeah.
• 1:18:38
  Oh, you're in my prayers, you know.
• 1:18:42
  OK, but what are you doing? Yeah, you can pray all day, you
• 1:18:45
  can blow, you can do all this, whatever you name you want to
• 1:18:48
  put to it. But what are you doing?
• 1:18:50
  Yeah. Make a difference, you know, but
• 1:18:55
  I'm so glad, man, I'm so glad that your experience there at
• 1:18:58
  this, you know, Christian getaway retreat that there were
• 1:19:03
  fundamentally things that you found important and
• 1:19:07
  philosophically could apply to your life as a heathen.
• 1:19:10
  And I think great testament to show others and and to sort of
• 1:19:14
  showcase the fact that, you know, if given the chance, if
• 1:19:18
  given the opportunity, think about giving yourself that
• 1:19:23
  opportunity, right? Think about walking a bit
• 1:19:26
  outside of that comfort zone and allowing you to be exposed to
• 1:19:32
  something that could really help you, you know, grow as a person.
• 1:19:36
  Just, you know, see things through another lens.
• 1:19:42
  Be be like you mentioned, you know, being confident and, and
• 1:19:45
  not having like a, a, a, a, a, a, a crisis of faith, you know,
• 1:19:52
  oh, I'm going to this Christian retreat.
• 1:19:54
  And what does that make? How does that, what does that
• 1:19:55
  mean for me as a heathen? Like let's put labels aside.
• 1:19:59
  Let's but look at what this is for, right?
• 1:20:02
  This, this heart of the warrior thing, man, you could, you could
• 1:20:07
  I, I would go to that. That sounds great.
• 1:20:09
  You know, like that sounds pretty awesome.
• 1:20:13
  And I'm so glad that you were able to or, and willing to, you
• 1:20:17
  know, after going to that, that you were willing to come and
• 1:20:20
  talk to other people and share this to the world, you know,
• 1:20:23
  'cause you could have kept it private and could have kept it,
• 1:20:24
  kept it to yourself. And that would have been your
• 1:20:26
  prerogative. And that's totally fine.
• 1:20:28
  Yeah, you opted to say I'd like to.
• 1:20:30
  I'd like to share and talk about this with others.
• 1:20:33
  That's great. Yeah, like one of my other
• 1:20:36
  things for like New Year's resolution is to just like help
• 1:20:42
  people, help all living beings basically, but also help people.
• 1:20:46
  And like one of the things I want, like I said, I think I
• 1:20:49
  said it earlier, can't remember, but is to learn how I can help
• 1:20:54
  people if I can get like other different people's perspectives
• 1:20:56
  because I didn't live like a really, you know, shitty life.
• 1:20:59
  I had great parents. They did their best at the time,
• 1:21:04
  you know, like my dad was a trucker.
• 1:21:06
  He was gone like throughout the week.
• 1:21:08
  But when he was there, he was there.
• 1:21:11
  He, you know, was a father to me.
• 1:21:14
  So I didn't have any problems there.
• 1:21:16
  My mom did her best. She wasn't, you know, there was
• 1:21:19
  like issues there. But for the most part, I'm not a
• 1:21:24
  drug addict. I didn't do anything.
• 1:21:27
  So she did a good job with me. So I can never fault her for
• 1:21:31
  that. So it like, so it's like hard
• 1:21:33
  for me to like when I hear other people's stories, it's hard for
• 1:21:38
  me to like say, like, think of like, what can I say to like
• 1:21:41
  help, you know, help ease their pain?
• 1:21:44
  And by listening to stories that like some of these people told,
• 1:21:48
  like the speakers at this retreat told, I was able to get
• 1:21:51
  kind of like a little bit better perspective and what I can do.
• 1:21:55
  And like one of the things that never, you know, like I think
• 1:21:59
  about like, you know, just like, OK, I can be like an, you know,
• 1:22:02
  shoulder for someone to cry on, right.
• 1:22:04
  But I never thought about in this perspective, like listening
• 1:22:08
  is healing. So that kind of helped out a big
• 1:22:12
  deal because like I don't have to have all like the answers.
• 1:22:16
  I can just listen. And if it helps, that's it.
• 1:22:18
  That's great. Yeah, that's a tough one to to
• 1:22:24
  get past for some folks. I mean, myself included,
• 1:22:26
  admittedly. You know, I, I feel like, well,
• 1:22:30
  if you're talking to me, then I have to talk to you.
• 1:22:32
  I have to give you some sort of, or I have to give you some sort
• 1:22:36
  of a, you know, a solution. And I've had to learn like, no,
• 1:22:41
  no, you don't. Not all the time, really.
• 1:22:45
  Sometimes all you just need to do is just shut up and listen.
• 1:22:49
  Yeah, exactly. And in the same boat it.
• 1:22:52
  Is. So I'm glad you can like, you
• 1:22:57
  know, you know where I'm coming from with some of this.
• 1:22:59
  It's just like got to have answers.
• 1:23:01
  I got to have answers. And I think it's also primarily
• 1:23:04
  because like I'm in like the science field, so I have to have
• 1:23:08
  answers for certain things. And I got to disassociate that
• 1:23:12
  part of me from everything else and just say I don't need to
• 1:23:16
  have to have the answers. I can just listen and just be
• 1:23:22
  there for someone. Yeah.
• 1:23:25
  Yeah, that's what I like about the high like the highland
• 1:23:27
  tribe, not to keep on like, you know, kind of putting out there
• 1:23:31
  in the into the ether, but it is a good group.
• 1:23:35
  It is great. I mean, I see like a lot of
• 1:23:38
  people get, you know, they're on like their dark side and then
• 1:23:44
  just having people there just listen to help out and just be
• 1:23:47
  there. Is this does the world good
• 1:23:49
  from? Yeah, exactly.
• 1:23:55
  There's, there's, you know, it's, it's, it's a beautiful
• 1:24:00
  space I got to admit to. And again, knowing Patrick and,
• 1:24:04
  and why he, he started it and it came from a space of a place of
• 1:24:10
  being genuine, you know, and me and him have talked at length
• 1:24:15
  about that too, right? Like being somebody who has a
• 1:24:20
  platform, you know, on social media, 'cause that's how he and
• 1:24:24
  I met, you know, he met me through my channel, my social
• 1:24:27
  media platforms. And, you know, we've become good
• 1:24:29
  friends and have exchanged, you know, kinship titles with one
• 1:24:32
  another over the years of, of getting to know one another and
• 1:24:34
  being involved with with more than just chit chat or or
• 1:24:39
  whatever. But realizing that, you know,
• 1:24:41
  these, these, these social media spaces can, can be really
• 1:24:46
  cathartic. And his group, you know, I just,
• 1:24:52
  I can say unapologetically and unequivocally that it is it is
• 1:24:56
  great to see how everyone behaves and how everyone reacts
• 1:25:03
  and interacts with one another. It's, it's a genuine space like,
• 1:25:07
  you know, and, and there'll be a link for that in, in the show
• 1:25:09
  notes because you know, people that listen that, that are on
• 1:25:12
  Facebook that want to join, you know, again, Chris and I are
• 1:25:16
  both Co admins or Co moderators for the group.
• 1:25:19
  So you know, there's questions that you'll get asked when you
• 1:25:22
  join, you know, please answer them, but just realize like you
• 1:25:28
  can post anonymously. It's a safe space.
• 1:25:30
  What happens there stays there. Nobody's going to, you know,
• 1:25:36
  compromise your anonymity or your privacy or anything like
• 1:25:41
  that. It's, it's a beautiful safe
• 1:25:44
  space to be in and there's tons of support.
• 1:25:48
  You know, that's one thing that I, I wouldn't, I wouldn't align
• 1:25:52
  myself with anything other than that.
• 1:25:55
  Yeah. But yeah, Chris, this has been
• 1:25:59
  great. I, I'm, I'm so thankful again
• 1:26:03
  and glad that you know, you talked about this and you and
• 1:26:06
  you shared some, some really key and important things about your
• 1:26:10
  experience with this. I hope it's helped others that
• 1:26:12
  are listening to this and that that watch this later on too.
• 1:26:16
  Is there anything else that we, we haven't touched on that you
• 1:26:21
  were really wanting to get out or, or was that pretty much it?
• 1:26:24
  No, I think we pretty much got it.
• 1:26:25
  I mean, yeah, we pretty much got like everything I wrote down in
• 1:26:30
  my notes. So I think we're golden.
• 1:26:33
  All right, cool. Well, I'll touch base with you
• 1:26:36
  real quick after we kind of wrap this up, but I'll, I'll go ahead
• 1:26:40
  and move towards signing this one off and thanking you once
• 1:26:44
  again for again being brave to come out here and step out of
• 1:26:49
  your shell and then outside of your comfort zone.
• 1:26:51
  I feel like this is a win for you, definitely a win for for
• 1:26:56
  others to see and inspired by. So thank you for that as well.
• 1:27:02
  Oh, thank you for having me, man.
• 1:27:03
  Thanks for the patience you've shown SO.
• 1:27:06
  Oh, yeah. I mean, I, I, it was worth it,
• 1:27:08
  you know what I mean? Like if I was if I was less than
• 1:27:11
  that, then I feel like I would have, you know, done you and me
• 1:27:14
  and everybody else a disservice. So it was well worth it.
• 1:27:17
  So all good there on this end. But yeah, so for everybody that
• 1:27:23
  does want to check out the the Highland group that we've been
• 1:27:25
  talking about, it'll be annotated in the show notes of
• 1:27:28
  this podcast. For those of you watching this
• 1:27:29
  on Patreon, head down into the video description to catch the
• 1:27:33
  link. If you're watching this on
• 1:27:35
  Patreon, you probably are either in the group or at least know of
• 1:27:37
  it. But for the listeners that are
• 1:27:40
  on the audio platforms that are new and want to connect with us
• 1:27:44
  on Facebook, there's that. So check all that out.
• 1:27:47
  Check out the link tree link for all the way you can support this
• 1:27:50
  podcast, all the social medias that you can follow the merch
• 1:27:54
  store, become a Patreon, Patreon to get access to the video
• 1:27:58
  versions of the show, plus other perks.
• 1:28:00
  You know, all of that is there so you can see all of that.
• 1:28:03
  So click on that link to show your support in any way that you
• 1:28:05
  can. And thank you once again to
• 1:28:08
  Chris Martino for being my guest this week.
• 1:28:09
  It's been great. And for everybody else here
• 1:28:13
  listening and watching the show, thank you for your support.
• 1:28:16
  Special thanks to my patrons and until we see and talk to each
• 1:28:21
  other again and the gods continue to notice you and may
• 1:28:25
  your ancestors smile upon you, see you in the next one.