Latest / The Parent Tap / Working Dads: Present but Not Enough

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Working Dads: Present but Not Enough · The Parent Tap

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_01: And when he found out what I did, like within a couple minutes, he's like opening up and telling me this story about like when he would be at his son's baseball games because he was extremely busy.
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_01: And he would make it a point to be at his kids' baseball games, which for him like felt like this kind of almost Herculean task because his time was so scarce and so valuable that he's like, you know what?
• 0:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to make it a point to be at my son's baseball games.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when his kid got older and they were having a conversation, and his son, who was now like, you know, 17 or 18 at this time, he said, Dad, I gotta be honest with you.
• 0:41
  SPEAKER_01: I know you were always at my baseball games.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: But every time I looked over in the stands, you were on your phone.
• 0:49
  SPEAKER_01: And what that meant to me was that I come second to your work.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: And he's he's like pouring his heart out to me.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, What I wouldn't give to go back.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: He's like, I I want to slap that past version of me in the face and say, put the phone down.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, great, you should feel good that you made it a point to arrange your calendar so you could be at your son's game.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool, that's not easy.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: You did a good job there, but you missed it.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_00: My guest today is John Horde.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_00: He spent two decades doing exactly what society told him to do climbing the corporate ladder and bringing home the paycheck until his body physically revolted and he realized his success was costing him his family.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_00: John, welcome to the show.
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_00: Let's bypass the surface level stuff and get right into the collapse.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_00: John, then use the I'm providing this for my family excuse as a literal shield to justify being emotionally absent.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_00: When you were at the peak of your 20-year corporate climb, what was the brutal realization about how your wife and kids actually viewed your financial success versus your physical presence?
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think one thing that's really interesting that I that I realized after the fact was that like my family doesn't really care.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like they I was doing like this path of you know being really successful in in business and you know earning a large salary.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_01: My family, like now that that's gone, like I've left that life behind me.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_01: Turns out like I was doing it for them, but they didn't ask me to do that.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: And like that's not what they wanted from me.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I am I'm so thrilled that I realized that before it's too late.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_00: My brother, it seems like he kind of he puts a lot of pressure on himself and he's a manager of sales, and like he's always working those I hear 60 to 80 hour weeks, and which for me is crazy.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_00: So let's talk about the physical toll.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_00: You suffered a panic attack that completely derailed you.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_00: So walk us through the exact psychological collapse of that moment.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_00: So, like, what happens to a successful man's ego when his body finally hits the wall?
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it certainly is a wake-up call, right?
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like when, because I was going through a lot of stress and anxiety at the moment that was, you know, largely work related, but like also, you know, life and family related.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like I fully believe that there was a part of me where like my mental energy was going toward work when I was there and when I wasn't there.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: And like, so that was one of the signals where it's like, oh, like even when I'm in the room with my kids, I'm not present with them.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like mentally, I'm I'm you know, troubleshooting problems at work.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: And so it was understandable and kind of and easy for me to see that most of my energetic capacity was going to work.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: But I think in addition to that, there was this stress that was building up where it's like by by giving the lion's share of my energy to work, it was this increasing weight of like knowing that I'm not ultimately living my life that I weigh the way that I want to live my life.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: And that was sort of in the background.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_01: And so I think those two things sort of piling up in conjunction is what led to, you know, what I what I believe to be is a panic attack, right?
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: I didn't, I did, I wasn't diagnosed with it, but my experience was that like my body like lost control, like that I wasn't in control of my body, of my breathing, like I mentally couldn't like regain control of the situation, and it's the the one and only time in my life that I've experienced that or anything close to that severe.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: So my understanding is that that description sort of fits the definition of a panic attack, but you know, definitions aside, it to say that it was startling to be in a position where it's like um where you can't control your body the way that you've been so accustomed to doing for all your life is it's unsettling and it sucks.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it certainly, you know, isn't fun to go through in the moment.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's a huge understatement.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: However, um, and I tell people this all the time like that's one example of pain that I wouldn't give back now if I could.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like if I if I could omit that from the records now, if I had a delete button on that, I'd I wouldn't do it because it was a really valuable signal to me in the long run.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_00: How do you pay the mortgage and pay the bills and like how did you operationally and financially restructure your family's life to allow you to be a present father without you know without the financial worries?
• 5:54
  SPEAKER_00: And I think a lot of you know a lot of dads are wondering wondering how you do it too.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: So uh do you mind do you mind sharing that?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't mind at all.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, like to say that I've done it without financial worry, that wouldn't be a like a an accurate description of it.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_01: But like, you know, I was I was fortunate enough to be in a position that I was.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_01: So like I started at this company part-time and over the course of 18 years got to vice president level.
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like, and the the goal the whole time was like I thought that you know, like happiness was gonna be waiting for me there, like a like a pot of gold.
• 6:28
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, if you would have asked me that when I got the job there, like part-time, like, hey, what would it be like for you if you're vice president and like running two teams and like getting all these incredible perks?
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_01: And like, yes, there's travel involved, but like some of it's just straight up fun travel, and you know, being on the senior leadership team, I would be like, oh, yeah, like sign me up.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's what I thought would make me really happy.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: I got and then fast forward 18 years to get to that point, it's like this isn't fulfilling in the way that I thought it would be.
• 7:07
  SPEAKER_01: I thought, like, you know, when I have this, then I'll be happy or then I'll be content and fulfilled.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_01: And like when those boxes get checked and you're like, well, I'm not happy.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I can find happy moments.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: It's not like I was a like just miserable person, but like that sense of fulfillment wasn't there.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And in addition, like I'm dealing with levels of stress and anxiety that like that nobody would ever want to invite into their life.
• 7:37
  SPEAKER_01: And so, you know, that realization for me just let me know, like, okay, this isn't this isn't where I want to be.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was making a good salary, you know, during my the end of my career.
• 7:48
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was able to build up some savings that let me just make a clean break from that and take time to like really do a lot of transformational and like introspective work on myself.
• 8:02
  SPEAKER_01: I I needed the time and the space to do that.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I understand that not that everybody doesn't have the ability to do that, and that's great, like that's good news because like you don't have to quit your job to start being like a more intentional parent for your kids, and you don't have to quit your job to like get a level of clarity that you've never experienced before when it comes to defining like what type of dad do I want to be for my kids, and like what things did I inherit inherit from my parents that I'm not interested in passing on to my kids.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you don't have to quit your job to do that, and actually, like it doesn't take that much time, but it has to become a priority.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: The father to be like, you know what, it's too important.
• 8:49
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, I can't just keep putting this off because you know, there's a a stat that I like, you know, to share is that like uh by the time our kids turn 12, they say that like 75% of all of the face-to-face time that we're gonna get with them is gone.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_01: And by the time they turn 18, that that percentage goes up to 90%.
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so we think that we have time as parents, but talk to any parent that has kids that have you know grown up and left the house, like it's cliche at this point.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_01: Everybody says, like, oh, it goes so fast, like you know, that advice gets tossed around to any new parent.
• 9:26
  SPEAKER_01: And in spite or despite hearing that so regularly, we still get caught off guard.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_01: And our kids are like 14, 15, they're like, oh my god, they're about to get their driver's license.
• 9:38
  SPEAKER_01: And once they get their driver's license, like, then I'm really never going to see them.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_01: So we don't, we don't have as much runway as we think that we do.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, to any dad that like is hearing this right now, like, are you are you comfortable with the way that things are going right now, knowing that you have far less time than you think that you do?
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: Like, be honest with yourself.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like, is this the version of the dad that you want to be during these really like important informative years for our kids?
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Because like, it's not like we stop being a dad when our kids get older and and leave the house and go, you know, get a job or go to college or start a family, whatever path is right for them.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: We don't being a father doesn't end there.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_01: But these formative years where I think of kids as almost being like a like a wet ball of clay, like where they're still impressionable and we can model behaviors for them that we want them to carry forward into their life so they can, you know, live a happy and productive and and satisfying life, like that window's really short.
• 10:43
  SPEAKER_01: And so, again, back to that dad that's listening to this, like, are you happy?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if if you're really content, if you look, if you honestly examine your life, your role as a father through that lens, and you're like, you know what?
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really content with this.
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, great, that's awesome.
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, then just keep doing what you're doing, like you've got awesome clarity, but that's that is way more uncommon than it is common.
• 11:11
  SPEAKER_01: Where like what is most common is like these dads, like we're busy, and life is hectic, and there's sports and after school stuff, and we may or may not have a partner in all this, and all these things, and life just seems really busy and hectic, and it is, and it's like a it's like surviving the day, right?
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm I'm providing, basic needs are met, like one week a year we go on a vacation, and that's great, but it's like a day-to-day battle, and if we don't, if we don't stop and like pick our head up and like do some planning when it comes to the type of dad that we want to be, what we risk is the house getting quiet at some point because the kids grow up and leave.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: And we look back with this like incredibly heavy feeling of weight and regret, realizing like I missed it.
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: And that uh unfortunately, and I've talked to a lot of dads that are in their 60s and 70s, feeling it my my father's included in that in that group of people.
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's it's awful.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so this is like uh this is an SOS message going out to people where it's like if you don't want to feel that, like, cool, like let's dig in and do the work.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my god, like I I got the chills right now because those statistics like scare me as a dad of two young toddlers because you you do feel like oh man, there's so much time.
• 13:19
  SPEAKER_00: I have a four-year-old, I have a one-year-old, like, but but you know, like knowing that it's you know, like during the formative years, as you describe it, like that's basically like you know, the m the the most time we're gonna get with them.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: And as I get older, it's like, you know, there's friends, there's jobs, there's there's really you know relationships, there's a lot of stuff that's gonna take their time, and we're like we're gonna see them less and less.
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't want to have those regrets.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: Like, I miss the heck out of them.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: And it's I I don't want to, yeah, man.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's my worst nightmares to get to 60 or 70, realize those years are gone, and we want them back, knowing you can't get it back.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I've talked to there's one guy in particular that I had a conversation with, and when he found out what I did, this guy is probably late 60s, massively successful, like celebrity A-level contacts and business deals, and like from the outside looking in, you'd say, like, this guy like really lived the life.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: And when he found out what I did, like within a couple minutes, he's like opening up and telling me this story about like when he would be at his son's baseball games because he was extremely busy, and he would make it a point to be at his kid's baseball games, which for him like felt like this kind of almost Herculean task because his time was so scarce and so valuable that he's like, you know what?
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to make it a point to be at my son's baseball games.
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, when his kid got older and they were having a conversation, and his son, who was now like, you know, 17 or 18 at this time, he said, Dad, I gotta be honest with you, I know you were always at my baseball games, but every time I looked over in the stands, you were on your phone.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_01: And what that meant to me was that I come second to your work.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_01: And he's he's like pouring his heart out to me, and he's like, What I wouldn't give to go back, he's like, I I want to slap that past version of me in the face and say, put the phone down.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like, great, you should feel good that you made it a point to arrange your calendar so you could be at your son's game.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool, that's not easy.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: You did a good job there, but you missed it.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_01: Like you got it to the one-yard line and you fumbled the ball.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: And his kid grew up with this really like stinging example of how much of a priority work was for his dad, and all these examples of how he felt like that work came before him as the son, and it it crushes this dad now.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_01: And again, like anybody that looks at him is like, this dude's got the life, and and he was a good dad, right?
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_01: But like he wasn't fully there, present.
• 16:14
  SPEAKER_01: And so it's those examples where you know, we're it's not about lack of effort, right?
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: Like, there are so many dads that are out there working so hard.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not a lack of effort, it's not a lack of like good intentions, you know.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_01: Dads, they want to provide a better life for their kids than they had themselves.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's fine to want that, but we we can't hide behind that as a mission, as to be like, hey, I'm going to do this at all costs, and this will be my cross to bear as the father.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: I'm going to like, you know, commit so heavily and work 60 to 80 hours.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it and it feels like it's this noble gesture to do because we are sacrificing ourselves, doing the hard work, and we're doing it through the lens of we're doing this to to provide for our family in a meaningful way.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_01: But like I said earlier, like maybe your family doesn't actually want that.
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like, maybe, like, maybe when your kids grow up and leave the house and you want to work 60 hours a week because like you love doing that, great.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_01: But like, maybe now's the time to find a way to like move that 60 hours a week down to 40.
• 17:30
  SPEAKER_01: Or like, even if you know, we can't reduce the number of hours.
• 17:34
  SPEAKER_01: So let's say they're working an hourly job and they need X hours a week just to cover basic needs.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, great.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: If that's not the variable in the equation that we can adjust, then it shifts into like, okay, how can we truly maximize the quality of the time that we do have with our kids?
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: If we can't get more of it, how do we put more into it to the time that we already have?
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: And like, that is introspective work.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's where we have to be honest with ourselves as a father, as a man, as just a human being with feelings and emotions.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, where am I where am I not, you know, measuring up to the to the way that I want to?
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: Where am I emotionally shutting down when things get hard?
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because that's what I saw my dad do.
• 18:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's hard to see those things.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And like these changes are incredibly significant to make, but they're not easy to see.
• 18:36
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where we need, you know, a trusted individual that can help us see these things.
• 18:41
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that person is your partner, maybe it's a really reliable friend.
• 18:46
  SPEAKER_01: For a lot of people, like working with a coach, like here, here's a biased perspective.
• 18:52
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a coach, I really believe in them.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I have a coach.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: Other people that don't have a like a personal relationship with us are able to see things that we're doing in our lives far better than anybody else does.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_01: And oh, by the way, like this coach, as long as they're a good coach, they're not gonna judge you for it, right?
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Like, so they can speak really openly and honestly, and you can say things to them that you wouldn't say to anybody else.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_01: And so all of a sudden, the language that's coming out of the father is different, and the and the input that's coming back to them is different than it would be anywhere else.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_01: So, like, dads, like if something just feels out of alignment right now, do the work.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: And if you don't know how to do the work, like call me, email me, we'll talk.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: We can have a conversation.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: Like, if you want to like have a 30-minute conversation to just like get an idea of like how things are going, or just to offload something off your chest, like reach out to me.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: We'll we can talk, and there won't be any charge to do it.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: It's fine.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_00: Is it as simple as just kind of getting down the level as our kids, or is there more to it than that?
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, the phone is an absolute great place to start because you know, these devices, they are they are designed by people way smarter than us, and like teams of some of the like brightest people on earth, they are finding ways to make sure that these things hold our attention.
• 20:23
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not even like a fair fight, and and it's not just like finding ways to like offer value.
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not I don't want to get caught up in like a whole tangent on like phones, but like they're designed to sort of like manipulate how our brain interprets signals and dopamine and to keep going, like doom scrolling, like that exists for a reason.
• 20:43
  SPEAKER_01: That's not an accident, like that is there by design, and so phones are an awesome place to start.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: One of the clients that I worked with, he and his kids created a no-phone zone, and so the kids' bedrooms were upstairs, and the phone could never go past the like the banister to go up the stairs, it would have to sit on there because upstairs is where the two bedrooms were, and that's a no-phone zone.
• 21:09
  SPEAKER_01: And so, like, it designing your environment around something that's important and meaningful to you is like a really great place to start.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_01: Again, another one on phones, give your kids permission to tell you, like, hey, you're on your phone again, or hey, get off your phone.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like, tell them, like, what would it feel like?
• 21:29
  SPEAKER_01: So many people tell me that getting off their phones is like where they want to start.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's a habit that they can feel is a problem for them as a dad.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_01: It's like, cool.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_01: So tell your partner or tell your kids, hey guys, I don't want to be on my phone as much because this time with you means way too much to me.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like, think about how that feels for a kid.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, oh my god, that's a big deal.
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: And to prove it to you, I'm gonna let you tell me when I'm on my phone too much.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: Or, like, maybe as a family, like, let's create like a phone box.
• 22:03
  SPEAKER_01: There's somebody else that I know.
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: He's a he's a friend of mine, but his kids designed this box and they colored it, and it's the phone box.
• 22:11
  SPEAKER_01: And his kids have permission to go up and ask their dad for his phone, and then they put it in the phone box, and then it's like it's a signal of like, hey dad, like I want time with you.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so they come up, they ask for it, he gives it to them, and then you know, they go build Legos or they go throw the baseball, or he lays down on the floor and like gets tummy time like with his youngest daughter.
• 22:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, phones are a great place to start.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned like being intentional.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: Getting on their level.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, like there's those are also great ideas.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_01: There are so many ways that we can increase the quality of time with our kids.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: If we can't get more quantity, how do we make the quality better?
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_01: And that's part of the work that we do inside of the Engaged Father Project is to help dads define what that looks like.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: What is what is the like A plus version of you look like as a dad?
• 23:12
  SPEAKER_01: That that you define, not me.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like this this program is not like, oh, I figured out how to be such a great dad.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_01: You do what I did.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's not that at all.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: It is what is being a great dad mean to you, and then we turn you into that version of that dad.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, again, like take the time, do the work, get clear, and start taking steps.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_00: They might want to let's put this into action, right?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, like if a dad's listening out there, he's on the car right now, driving home, 10-hour day, brutal traffic, you know, he's telling he's about he's about to walk to the door, tired, exhausted, irritable, perhaps, detached, you know, from work.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_00: What is the exact step-by-step system he needs to execute the second he puts his keys on the counter so he doesn't ghost his family?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_01: It starts before he even walks in the house.
• 24:03
  SPEAKER_01: And I would use the threshold of the house as a signal.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: It is one of the exercises that we do when I take people, you know, through the program that I offer, but we design what that process looks like and feels like for you.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like, what are the results that you want to achieve?
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's like, okay, cool.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how do we do that?
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: There's a a gentleman that I met, he has a he's a podcast host and he's become a friend of mine, but he's active duty military.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_01: And so his process is he takes his boots off in the garage because symbolically, like that is him leaving his military life in the garage, and he doesn't take it into the house.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: And like you can imagine how hard it is, how how hard work and life is for him right now.
• 24:55
  SPEAKER_01: With the state of things, being active duty military is stressful.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_01: And my heart goes out to anybody that's in the military right now and the families that support the people that are in the military.
• 25:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's hard times.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm sorry that it this added level of stress is there for you.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: But he has made it a point to not bring that outside stress into his house.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so for him, he takes his boots off and he feels good about it.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like tying in a physical action into something like emotional that we want to do is like a really great way to like signal to ourselves, like, okay, this is what's going on.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_01: And so he has designed this process to when he walks through the door, like before that, the boots are coming off, and then like he's clear about the type of dad that's going to walk through the door.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: He's not wearing the day's worth of stress on his face, he's not work, you know, the the worry that he has about the future is not on his face.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: He's walking through with a smile because he's like, I get to be with my girls.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_01: And he's like, not only do I get to be with my girls, but I want them to know that I'm excited to be with them.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm going to show that look on my face.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And when I see my my wife, I'm going to go up and I'm going to give her like an actual hug that she can feel.
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_01: And it's not a check the box, you know, peck on the cheek, give a quick hug, and then move on.
• 26:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm going to take five or ten seconds and actually create a meaningful interaction there.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: So to answer your question, have a plan for how you enter the home because your kids don't have any understanding for what your life is like at work.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_01: And nor should they.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, it's you don't have to keep it a secret, but their kids they don't know the stress and pressure of everything that's going on.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: And and nor should they.
• 26:57
  SPEAKER_01: They want time with their dad, and they want to feel safe and loved and happy and all these things.
• 27:05
  SPEAKER_01: So do that.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love that.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the mindset of I get to do this versus I have to, for me personally, that's been one of those things where I'm like, you know, like I have to watch the kids.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_00: No, I get to watch the kids, I get to hang out with the kids.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that as simple as that for me.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_00: That mindset shift is really just important.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_00: There's something beautiful about that.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_00: So, John, from VP to current coach, how do people find you?
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_00: How do people get your offerings?
• 27:35
  SPEAKER_00: Find out what's coming up with your future projects and all that.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, thank you.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: To get in contact with me, Instagram, TikTok, or YouTube.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's at the Engaged Father Project.
• 27:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I also have a community on school.com, which is S-K-O-O-L.
• 27:54
  SPEAKER_01: That community is free to join.
• 27:56
  SPEAKER_01: There's over 90 dads that are in that community now.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we're doing daily challenges and we're supporting each other and challenging each other and sharing wins and like people are like giving advice in there, having like live calls.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, like if somebody like you know, if they know that now's the time and they want to jump in the deep end and do this work, great, we'll talk.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: But like if they're not sure and they just like want to start to ease into it, join this community on school.
• 28:24
  SPEAKER_01: Again, it's free, and there is so much value that's happening in there because there's something really special that happens when as a dad, where we have a space where we can sort of take our armor off and be around other dads and like to have a space where it's like, hey, you know, this is hard.
• 28:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm struggling with this, or life feels hard.
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: And it's, you know, I don't want to paint the picture that it's just a bunch of guys and they're sobbing about what's hard.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're going through something and it's hard and you're like, hey guys, like I don't know how to handle this situation, never been in this before, or like there's a reoccurring thing and we just can't seem to get it right.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what has worked for you guys to have a space?
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because like that's not conversations that are happening for groups of guys, right?
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, guys don't go out for to watch a game at like a sports bar, and they don't sit there and just talk about like how hard it is to have you know two kids in diapers, right?
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like that, or just how hard it is to carry the weight of being a father and working a full time job.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_01: It does just aren't the conversations that happen.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_01: But like, those are important conversations where we should have a space where we can talk about those things and get support and feedback from other people.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_01: And and that's what this community is is built to do.
• 29:45
  SPEAKER_01: So if that sounds of interest, come check us out.