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Choosing Your Hard: From Corporate to Calling · Your Mic

0:00
I'm changing things up again because I've got to play this conversation for you.
0:04
It's an episode of Beauty Unveiled with my friend, and also one of Speak Podcastings
0:08
long as clients, Dr. Angela Stern.
0:10
She invited me to be a guest, and the conversation got really raw.
0:16
Corporate medicine versus private practice, corporate radio versus entrepreneurship in the
0:20
brutal math of 455 applications with almost zero callbacks.
0:26
This is two entrepreneurs comparing scars and showing exactly what it looks like to stop
0:31
playing somebody else's game and build our own.
0:35
And if you enjoyed this episode, please consider subscribing to Dr. Stern's Beauty Unveiled
0:41
and your favorite podcast app.
0:45
We've done this before, but it's been a while, and now that I have a little bit more practice,
0:50
I want to try.
0:51
Not that you ever made a practice.
0:53
I mean, come on.
0:55
Well, thanks.
0:57
And something that we have in common is that you worked in radio for a while, and then
1:02
you decided, I want to go out on my own, and I'm going to be an entrepreneur, and I kind
1:07
of wanted you to talk about that.
1:09
So tell us a little bit about it.
1:13
Absolutely.
1:14
Speak podcasting should never even exist, because at the end of 2021, and at the time of
1:21
this recording, about four years ago, I was made an offer that I could refuse, and I
1:26
refused it, and so by the end of the year, I was guaranteed, because I'm Freddie Effing
1:33
Cruz, and I want to find a job doing something.
1:37
I want to find a job, and I told my wife.
1:38
And I'm like, the writing was on the wall, and I saw the writing, and it was right here,
1:43
and don't worry, though, because I want to find a gig.
1:45
I'm going to find a gig.
1:47
455 applications, a handful of interviews, it didn't turn out, about 55, mostly form
1:53
rejections later I figured, I'm good at hearing no and getting ignored, so maybe I might
2:01
be cut out for this business.
2:03
And pitching yourself, and being confident in yourself, and putting yourself out there.
2:11
Yeah.
2:12
Well, working with people like you, and we met at a charity function for an animal shelter,
2:20
here at your practice, and getting to work with people like you, and the Rose, and the
2:25
funeral history museum, and the bank, and all of our clients, has really restored a lot
2:31
of my confidence in being a business owner.
2:35
And I'd like to get your thoughts, because you went off, obviously, different professions,
2:42
obviously, different professions, your plastic surgeon, big difference from a goon behind
2:47
a mic, but you went off on your own in 2020, while pregnant, and then you had a two year,
2:54
you have, well, she was too at the time.
2:56
She was too.
2:57
And so what you did, and have done and accomplished in the past five, almost six years, is extraordinary,
3:05
so I'd like to get your thoughts on all of that.
3:10
I think, regardless of the field, it's that same stepping off into nothing, feeling
3:15
of like, yeah, it's going to be fine, it'll be fine, it'll be great, and it was, I don't
3:24
know if it's the same feeling you had, like yours was an offer you could refuse, and mine
3:28
was, this isn't going to go anywhere, like I've been trying to work at this forever.
3:34
There was the offer that wasn't an offer, that for seven years was, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
3:39
there'll be a buy-in, there'll be a buy-out, and then it came down to it where I pushed
3:44
come to shove, and I get, you know, professionals involved at looking at numbers, and it's not
3:49
there, you know, it wasn't the right time.
3:52
It wasn't the right time, I wasn't the right person, and so you'd say, well, I'll just
3:58
do it on my own, and no idea how this will go, but there was no plan B.
4:05
Yeah, is it Arnold Schwarzenegger who said that if you have a plan B, you're already pretty
4:10
much doomed to failure, is sort of a paraphrasing of that?
4:13
Yeah, I don't know if his own, who it was, but that's a good saying though, like, you know,
4:19
if you believe like, this is what's going to happen, and I'm going to make it work, you'll
4:22
find a way to make it work, you know, so that was, okay, we're going to go, and we found
4:28
this space that was, I was looking for 2,500 square feet, and then I fell in love with
4:33
the view, and it's like, twice that.
4:35
It's a great view.
4:36
That's the best view.
4:37
I mean, I'm looking right now.
4:38
That down to people, I mean, where I'm sitting, I can see it, I don't know if you can see
4:42
right, but I mean, it's beautiful.
4:43
Yeah, you got the whole city, and so I said, again, it'll be fine, we're going to take
4:48
it.
4:49
It'll be fine.
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And now we're looking at expansion, so it's exciting, going from me and one employee to
4:56
now we have our little, little family of employees.
4:58
You have a squad.
4:59
We have a little squad.
5:00
Yeah.
5:01
I think it's a great squad.
5:02
Yeah.
5:03
I think it's great people, and you know, that's learning too of finding the right people.
5:09
What is your thought on learning?
5:13
I know that in our talks off mic, we, it seems like we follow some of the same people,
5:19
the Hormoses.
5:20
It's been like the podcast world has been a great learning tool for me, of like listening
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to other people talk and what they're doing, and so you've helped me grow to figure out,
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okay, well, there's this and that, and you know, listen to people and what they're talking
5:34
about, and there's stuff that's like you know in your mind, but then someone says it
5:40
out loud, and you're like, yeah.
5:42
Yeah.
5:43
That's it, you know, that someone's willingness to learn and willingness to be coached is the
5:50
most important thing.
5:51
Yes.
5:52
And if they're not, you're just, you're not going to be able to get anywhere, but as I'd
5:57
always had that thought in my mind, but didn't say it out loud, and I was like, my, I can
6:01
teach you to do a lot of things, but I can't teach you to give a, give a, you know what,
6:06
you know.
6:07
Yeah.
6:08
But they said it much more eloquently.
6:09
Right.
6:10
And it takes, maybe that's what it takes, is that someone says something in a different
6:16
way that you knew intuitively, but just couldn't maybe connect, like there have been things
6:22
that Alex Formozia said that it took him saying it a certain way for me to connect the dots.
6:29
I'm like, oh, yes.
6:32
Yeah.
6:33
That's what I was thinking.
6:34
That's the words I'll put together.
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That's, that makes sense.
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And it's validating because you think, oh, well, I, whom I, and what do I know?
6:42
And then somebody like that says it and you're like, okay, there's something to that.
6:46
Yeah.
6:47
Crazy.
6:48
Yeah.
6:49
So how did you find all your clients?
6:52
They found me, I mean, you know, yeah, I mean, it's in, I have jokingly say that.
7:01
My first two clients, so you're the third.
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We found each other when I came to your practice for the event and we connected for the podcasts.
7:13
But the rose and the funeral history museum, we go way back.
7:17
So I had, and this is a sort of a mindset thing.
7:22
And this is applicable for anybody who's still working at W2, still working at nine to five,
7:27
is that when you get violent told to do something, suck it up and treat it like it's the
7:33
best thing to ever happen to you.
7:34
I was violent told to host a Sunday morning show, community affairs.
7:39
And I mean, let's be real, no one's awake on Sunday morning at six unless you are working
7:44
at third shift and, I mean, you know, so no one's listening to that show.
7:50
But it was three eight minute segments that I was charged with looking for guests, scheduling
7:58
the guests to come in, interviewing them, recording, producing and scheduling and managing
8:06
all of that, oh, I'm preparing for the interview.
8:08
So if it's, if it's the Dr. Angela Stern Foundation for Plastic Surgery, I need to know what
8:14
the heck I'm talking about.
8:16
But for three guests, every single and we would sometimes record weeks in advance and we'd
8:21
have two or three days.
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And so we're talking nine segments in addition to the copywriting and production that I was
8:26
doing and the midday show, preparing for the midday show and then running social media.
8:32
I'm getting hives just thinking about all the things you're running the business.
8:36
I mean, it kind of seemed that way.
8:39
And so long, this is very long when I'm getting to the answer, but I had run out of potential
8:46
guests for this show.
8:48
And so I did this thing called looking up Google for interesting nonprofits.
8:55
And I found the Funeral History Museum like, wow, they're cool.
9:00
Yeah, that's interesting.
9:01
Yeah, I was reached out to by the Rose to MC their shrimp boil.
9:07
All these years later, I'm still MCing their annual shrimp boil, which is probably one
9:13
of the most fun, fun, fun razors.
9:17
I mean.
9:18
Yeah, that's a great fun, razor.
9:19
Yeah.
9:20
That's much better than, you know, baked chicken on a Thursday night.
9:23
On a Thursday night with a tuxedo and a comfortable in your suit and your dress.
9:29
That's how I met them.
9:30
And then when I branched off and did my own thing, they were my first two clients.
9:35
And so it's like, hey, you know, there's this thing called podcasting.
9:41
It's Dorothy and I will tell you and this is the story.
9:44
It's, this is back to Alex Hormozzi.
9:47
When you have got your backing in the wall, what do you do anything?
9:51
You have no shame about it.
9:52
So I'm reaching out to people on Facebook, Dorothy Givens.
9:55
All right, I'm down to the G's, Dorothy Givens, and I'm on Facebook.
9:59
Let's me for coffee and she's like, Freddie, if you're going to sell me something, you
10:02
are coming to me.
10:03
Yeah.
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And so.
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Smart lady.
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Yes.
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Very smart lady.
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And so we met at her office and I had a little presentation and you saw a variation,
10:16
you got your own presentation so you know what it looks like.
10:19
And her response was, Freddie, we've been wanting to do this for years.
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You just didn't know how and I'm like, there's no way it's that easy.
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And it's not.
10:28
It is not that easy because it was a bunch of nose after that, but it was the yes that
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I needed at the time.
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And we only that little, you know, spark that you're like, okay, I'm going in the right
10:39
direction.
10:40
I mean, when was there were some patients that followed me and came in to see me right
10:44
after I left that practice and so you're like, oh, yeah, you do love me.
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Oh, this is good.
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Oh, I'm going to be okay.
10:51
That is so cool that, I mean, that you have that kind of clout.
10:57
And people that are just wonderful people, you know, and I saw one this week actually that
11:02
she's been my patient since forever and we were talking about it and she brings it up
11:06
frequently.
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And she's like, I bet you didn't think I was going to come along with you.
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And I was like, I didn't really know actually, but I'm so glad you did because she's just
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such a sweetheart.
11:18
Yeah.
11:19
We've got just really great patients.
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And it seems like your clients are that way just really nice people and good people and
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it was a doctor I work with actually and he said that he works with people he likes,
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you know, that he would actually go to dinner with like, that's the people he operates
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on and that's the people he likes and, I don't know, yeah, you have similar clients,
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but your clients seem really nice.
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All those, all those vibes, like all those vibes.
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And I'll tell you, Dr. Stern, that I don't say this lightly, I really believe in my
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heart and I know this to be true based, I mean, it's you are the people that you surround
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yourself with.
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I really believe that you are all icons, period, end of story, period with us, I'm just
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a guy that didn't even, I needed to make money and I didn't all do it.
12:18
I was tired of getting hurt, getting told no and again, I speak podcasting should never
12:25
have existed because I was convinced that I was going to do some kind of corporate job
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because it's all I've ever known all the way down to my first job in McDonald's.
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All I've known was to be a corporate shield.
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And the universe said no, that's not what you're supposed to be.
12:43
Right, yeah, and I've never said this in a public forum, but I'm going to ask you, do
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you know how I know that I'm doing what I was meant to be doing?
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No, I really want to hear this answer.
13:00
Twice, since I started my business, I thought about giving up.
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And tried to apply for gigs at cross sound radio stations, that for direct competitors
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and crickets.
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Now, the universe was like no, no, no, you're supposed to be, yeah, no, it's telling you,
13:22
you're good at this, you connect with people, you're, you know, this is your thing.
13:27
This is where you're supposed to be.
13:28
And I was talking to a young facial plastic surgeon and we were talking about how hard
13:34
life is.
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And you know, she just had a baby and just got married and is starting her practice and
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it's all very scary.
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And I'm like, well, it's all hard, it's all hard, it's all hard.
13:45
It's like, but, you know, you're, you're where you're supposed to be and that's you had,
13:52
you know, somehow it's a little bit more peaceful when you're like, I chose this, you
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know, I mean, I chose this hard.
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And I'm learning these lessons for a reason and I'm going to help somebody else because
14:04
I've went through this crappy thing, you know, and it's going to make me better able
14:10
to help someone else and it's kind of a funny conversation because I don't think she
14:14
really got it.
14:15
She was like, well, I learned rhinoplasty at this place and I'm like, okay, give it a
14:18
few years.
14:19
Come back to me a few years.
14:20
You'll know what I'm talking about when you're like, you know, like the hard things,
14:23
like life changing, you know, like, I'm not doing this anymore and then you're like, well,
14:31
I guess, I guess I am because what does Cody Sanchez talk about how her dad says that
14:37
you're not really a business owner until you're up at two in the morning wondering how
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you're going to pay the payroll or what not.
14:44
Head in your hands.
14:45
Head in your hands.
14:46
Yeah.
14:47
What am I doing?
14:48
Yeah.
14:49
Why am I doing this?
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I should quit and just go get a job and, you know, I think we've all done it.
14:55
I just realized I can't work for anybody else.
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I just can't do it because I can't have too many opinions.
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I think things are supposed to go a certain way and I like getting away.
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That's the thing.
15:11
And it's the vision, you know, like that's an entrepreneur vision.
15:14
And whether you're like conscious of it at the time or not, like, this is what I'm going
15:20
to do.
15:21
And I think the clear you are in that vision and the more you're like, submit to it a little
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bit.
15:26
You know, we're like, okay, okay, this is what I'm going to do and this is, you know,
15:31
what I want it to be and what I want it to look like if there's no limitations and just
15:36
thinking big picture, it's that entrepreneur vision that there's always there.
15:41
It's like, no, but this is how it is.
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And you're like, you want to do it and I'm like, no, this is how it is.
15:46
In my vision, this is how it goes.
15:48
We're going to will this into existence this way.
15:51
Yeah.
15:52
We'll like part German, it's we're going to make that happen and I don't understand why
15:58
you don't see what I'm saying.
16:02
Yeah.
16:04
And you know, and that's that's important and then anybody really, but especially entrepreneurs
16:10
that you have vision for your life and your goals and your thing, it looks different
16:18
than I thought it was going to, but.
16:20
And how you have integrated this perfectly, it seems from an outsider's view, perfectly
16:26
into your life.
16:27
So art is integrated into this and I see your beautiful young girls, you know, frolicing
16:35
through the hallway sometimes and there's so adorable and a little, you know, you hear
16:41
the little voices and a little better of the feet sometimes and I'm like, wow, this
16:46
is, you know, I mean, yeah.
16:51
It works, it probably wouldn't work if I was an employee, they would not be happy about
16:55
those things.
16:56
Yeah.
16:57
But it works for us because it's just us, we don't have family that's close, we don't
17:01
have other people to help us out.
17:03
So it's just, you know, he goes to get the kids and bring them up here if we don't have
17:08
anywhere else for him to go.
17:09
So thank goodness it works out that way and arts working out well here.
17:13
I did fire him once and I did rehire him.
17:17
What?
17:18
How did that go?
17:19
Not great.
17:20
I was at dinner.
17:21
Not good for a while.
17:22
There was no dinner here.
17:23
Oh, no.
17:24
Nobody cooked that night.
17:25
No, no McDonald's.
17:26
I'm sure.
17:28
Oh, wow.
17:30
And, you know, it's hard working with your significant other and you know their, their
17:37
strengths and their weaknesses more than anybody else.
17:40
True.
17:41
And so what I've found is people know that and they will hate to say exploit because that
17:48
sounds strong, but like work those things because they know that it's exploit and trying
17:54
to be nice and I can't think of another word.
17:56
No, it sounds about right.
17:58
There's things to, oh, it's arts fault because of this and that and they're, oh, it's
18:01
arts fault because he forgot to do this because he's, you know, like there's the visionary
18:06
and there's the implementer and he is the visionary, big picture, social sales guy and
18:14
he'll talk to anybody and, you know, make, he'll be their best friend by the end of
18:18
the night and the people love him and, but if you tell him he needs to send 10 emails
18:24
that's, that's a no go.
18:25
Just not going to happen.
18:26
He is not a sit down and do a bunch of paperwork guy, like there's sales guys or never
18:30
your paperwork guys.
18:31
And so I'd find people that would find a way to be like, oh, that's, that's his fault
18:36
and this felt the cracks and so that's difficult because it becomes between us and I've gotten
18:44
better at, okay, here's your strength and this is what I want you to do all day long and
18:48
I don't want you to do anything else.
18:52
If anyone asks you to do the paperwork, that is not your job.
18:55
And that has been made clear to them too.
18:57
Yeah, like this is his job and this is your job and everybody knows like this is your
19:02
job, that's not your job and yes, they can do it in a pinch, but there's very little overlap
19:09
because they like accountability, like yeah, no, you can't blame this on someone else
19:14
and then you're like, wow, it's, yeah, I mean, to me and I'd love to get your thoughts
19:19
on this.
19:20
Like to me, even when something is, something is like legitimately not on me, I hate saying
19:31
well, like I almost find the way to blame myself, like well, I'm sorry that I didn't bring
19:36
it up earlier.
19:37
Right.
19:38
However, this was John Doe, you know, John Doe did this and this and this.
19:42
But again, I'm really sorry that I didn't notice it.
19:44
Right.
19:45
Because you're that like highly accountable person that cares, right, yeah, but also I'm
19:51
just like, I just don't, I don't want to be the good cop back hop, town tail, you know,
19:58
yeah.
19:59
Dr. Stern.
20:00
Yeah, this happened, you know, I didn't fill out the paperwork.
20:03
Oh, no, it's weird to me.
20:05
It's, it's a weird dynamic.
20:07
Yeah.
20:08
But we're in a better place now that I've rehired him and I was like, okay, here's the
20:12
rules that, and like, you can't talk about work after work unless it's like important,
20:19
you know, I can't do it all the time.
20:21
I don't know.
20:22
So you're able to separate.
20:24
I need separation.
20:25
You need separation.
20:26
You will talk about it day and night.
20:28
I don't know.
20:29
How is your household?
20:30
You all talk about, because what does your wife do?
20:34
So she's a funeral counselor, permanent real estate, if you will.
20:39
You know, I talked to someone that they did something similar to that and then they transitioned
20:45
into plastic surgery and they said they were the best salesperson that ever met because
20:50
they're used to very delicate conversations.
20:52
Yeah.
20:53
Someone dies.
20:54
That's the worst thing to happen to your family and to have close to you, yeah.
21:01
So John Doe, let's talk about where you're going to, you know, all your options and here's
21:08
your options for your coffins.
21:10
Oh, do you, we have these kinds of earns in this model.
21:13
Why is it cost this?
21:14
Oh, well, that's an outer burial container.
21:17
Let me take you on a tour of the cemetery.
21:20
Meanwhile, they're loved one.
21:23
But they're, it's an art and, you know, to have those conversations and it's really amazing
21:31
at it.
21:32
Yeah.
21:33
I don't think that that would be a specific personality that you can handle their grief
21:38
and their needs at that time and they do have to make these purchases and make good decisions,
21:43
but you're probably not in the best headspace to do it, you know, be able to help people
21:48
through that.
21:49
Yeah.
21:50
I mean, sometimes you don't realize what you're meant to do on this earth until you've
21:56
collected a lot of birthdays.
21:57
Yeah.
21:58
Yeah.
21:59
No, it takes time because you don't, I don't even think you're aware enough to try to think
22:05
about that on that level.
22:06
Yeah.
22:07
Yeah.
22:08
Like college kids, you know, I've got two of them and, you know, I've made it very clear
22:15
to both of them that obviously I want you to do very well and I want you to do what you
22:20
want to do as a career.
22:23
Also, if it doesn't pan out, you are so young and it's Gary Vaynerchuk who talks about
22:29
how when you're in your 20s, you can just fail and fail and fail and you still got time
22:34
on your hands.
22:35
If you are healthy, you are in the United States and you are young, you've got time on
22:42
your side and, you know, they're not married, they don't have kids.
22:46
You know, you and I were talking about the older one.
22:50
She's book smart and street smart, which is way dangerous.
22:53
Yeah.
22:54
Really dangerous.
22:55
But I mean, you know, if you've got any sort of, even if you're average, maybe even
23:02
below average intellect, if you've got time on your side to learn and to make the mistakes
23:08
and learn from those and over and over and over again.
23:12
And I would even say, if you're in your 30s and still, you don't have a lot of commitments.
23:18
You can still make mistakes over and over again until you quote unquote to get it right.
23:24
Yeah.
23:25
It's all a process.
23:26
It's all part of the journey you're supposed to be on, you know, that you're supposed to
23:33
do this and then that not work out and then this other thing and that not work out because
23:37
you're collecting all those experiences to do whatever you're, I don't know, I think
23:42
the whole thing is purposeful and there's a point where you're like, oh, I feel like
23:47
this is the right thing, you know, but it's all purposeful, you know, it all kind of
23:54
comes together at one point and then you're like, oh, all the pieces come together and
23:57
I see it.
23:58
And sometimes it's doing the thing that you don't know for sure you're going to be good
24:02
at, but it's kind of how I picked facial plastics as I liked it.
24:07
I was really into like the artistic part of it, but I was like, I don't know that I'm
24:11
going to be good at it from a personality perspective because all the guys that I knew
24:15
that did it were like, use car salesman a little bit, you know, you know, slick and
24:23
fresh.
24:24
I'm not at all and all the people I knew were guys, you know, I was a girl that I'm just
24:31
going to tell you how it is and that's the only way I know how to be and I'm not going
24:34
to be able to, you know, pull a fast one on you because I don't have that ability.
24:39
Yeah.
24:40
And look at the wall of awards.
24:42
Well, and I think it's good because that is what people like that I'm just, I'm going
24:47
to tell them my honest opinion.
24:49
Yeah.
24:51
At the time, it didn't seem like a good thing because that's not what anybody else.
24:55
I knew how they knew the era.
24:57
Everyone wants to be like, maybe not everyone, but sometimes people just want to be coddled
25:03
and just told what they want to hear.
25:05
Yeah.
25:06
And maybe that's a corporate thing.
25:07
I don't know.
25:08
Like the game, the corporate, the whole game, and it's like, what if I don't want to play
25:13
the game?
25:14
Yeah.
25:15
I have a hard time understanding how you could play the game forever, you know, and I
25:20
know some people do.
25:21
Yeah.
25:22
And they're probably pretty good at it.
25:23
Yeah.
25:24
I'd rather have my game, my business, my roles, and guess what?
25:30
I can pick up my game, fold it up, put the paper back, and then start over with...
25:35
Yeah.
25:36
Yeah.
25:37
Exactly.
25:38
And that way I can own all of the decisions, the good ones, the bad ones, the, you know,
25:47
it was me.
25:48
I can't say, oh, I was put into this position because of this and the other.
25:52
Yeah.
25:53
Yeah.
25:54
Like, I see myself doing this forever, you know, like there are people in my age, 50,
26:03
that talk about, you know, retirement and this, that and the other, yeah, that sounds cool.
26:10
Not really.
26:11
It sounds miserable.
26:12
Yeah.
26:14
That's, to me, that's a sign you're doing what you're supposed to do is you can see yourself
26:18
doing this forever.
26:19
You don't really want to stop doing this, like my dad, he's a farmer, and he will never
26:23
stop doing...
26:24
Is he still in the fuels?
26:27
He, he manages people.
26:29
So he's out there, and he'll see them, and he tells them what to do, but he's out there.
26:34
He's out there.
26:35
He drives from one, you know, farmer ranch to the other one, and he's never not going to
26:40
do it because he loves it, you know, there's no retirement, he's going to retire.
26:45
If there's joy in it, right?
26:46
Yeah, he finds joy in it, he loves being out there, he loves seeing the cows, he loves
26:50
seeing the crops, and so he's never going to not do it.
26:56
He just figures out how to not do the like physical part that's for the young guys.
27:01
Right, yeah, yeah, yeah, like, it seems like there are obvious things that as we collect
27:09
more birthdays that were less likely to be able to do, but I mean, I was just thinking
27:17
the other day, I got, oh, I got at least 30 years, that puts me at 80, maybe I'll retire,
27:24
but I plan to live into I'm 105 at least, so 25 years is still a long time than not to
27:30
be retired, right?
27:31
Yeah, I see these forms of physicians and things like that, they're like, oh, I want to retire
27:38
early.
27:39
I don't want the other day that said, oh, well, I sold my practice to PE, and now I'm retired,
27:44
and they were bored, they're super bored, like, I don't know, I'm trying to figure out
27:48
what to do next, you know, if you don't have that next thing going, you're, what do you
27:53
do?
27:54
Because if you're that person now and you always have things going, I don't know, I would
27:59
have to have another iron in the fire.
28:01
What's it like for plastic surgeons?
28:03
I mean, do they typically work under their 70s or do they kind of hang it up?
28:08
You know, age generation has been a little different.
28:12
The generation that taught me, that was your life, you know, you put everything into
28:17
that.
28:18
That was, that, when they trained when you really were a resident, you really did stay
28:21
at the hospital sometimes for long periods of time, like, there's the stories of Debaki,
28:28
you know, because he was still working when I was a resident, but he was towards the end.
28:32
But, you know, the stories are he had his residents stay in that ICU for a month, and you
28:37
did not leave.
28:38
You did not leave.
28:39
You did not go anywhere.
28:40
That was where you lived.
28:41
That's why they call it a resident seat.
28:43
That's why they call it a residency, because you lived there.
28:47
You lived it.
28:48
You breathed it.
28:49
You, everything.
28:50
And so those guys are in their 80s and still practicing because they don't, because that's
28:56
their whole identity.
28:57
Yeah.
28:58
There's the, it's your identity.
29:00
You have a, you have a family, but maybe that dynamic looks different than what others
29:07
people might, and then you just haven't had the time to develop any other interests.
29:11
So like, what else are you going to do?
29:13
You don't have hobbies.
29:14
You don't, you do this.
29:16
This is what you do, you know, and it's your, so they'll work until somebody's like,
29:20
hey, I'm going to just stop doing that.
29:23
I noticed your hand, Jiggly.
29:24
I'm going to go with that scalpel.
29:25
Hello.
29:26
Hello.
29:27
Wiggle there.
29:28
That's probably a little too much, you know.
29:32
Yeah.
29:33
And it, it was almost becoming a problem when I was at the end of my fellowship, because
29:40
they started to do tests for physicians, like they replaced, they were doing tests, and
29:44
it was not required, but they were testing it out to make it required that you go make
29:50
sure your vision is okay.
29:51
Your mental capacity is okay.
29:53
Your hands are okay.
29:54
And that is, I mean, that is a hard ego hit, but it's also fear.
30:01
I think so.
30:03
So this was an issue, like at the end of my fellowship in like 2012, but the generations
30:10
after have sought more of a balanced life, I don't know if you can ever truly be balanced
30:18
if you want to be like amazing at something, but more so that they're looking at retirement,
30:24
planning for retirement, planning for spending time with their kids.
30:27
That's part of their goals, you know, like that's part of when I sit down and look
30:31
at all my goals, part of it is I want to be there for my kids whenever they're in high
30:35
school sports or whatever, you know.
30:38
So it's not as much of a problem anymore, because we're like, my generation now is like,
30:41
yeah, we're going to retire, we're planning on that, we're going to do something else
30:45
at that time.
30:46
I think the perfect right off into the sunset is to create a practice where other people
30:50
want to be, and other people want to be there in practice, and they, they want to be there
30:55
because that's where they, they like to practice.
30:57
The people are good, the processes are good, and, and I can be a part of it, but I don't
31:02
actually have to do the cutting anymore, you know, but other people do that.
31:06
It doesn't rely solely on Dr. Stern.
31:08
Right, like that's the goal is like, there's a point where I practice because I want to,
31:13
but the practice runs fine without me.
31:15
And then there's a point where I'll be like CEO, and I can do that from a beach if I need
31:20
to.
31:21
That was sound amazing, Fort Walton Beach.
31:24
It's just, you know, take some calls and you mentioned something and I want to, I want
31:30
to know what you think.
31:32
So from a patient's perspective, like when someone's going to be like, well, I, it's
31:38
your hands that I want operating on my nose, but it's Dr. Stern's and you've got this
31:43
amazing team in place, but it's Dr. Stern's practice.
31:47
And so I ask because I remember being on a call and it's like, well, are you the one
31:52
that's going to be editing the podcasts?
31:54
And I'm like, I trained monkey can edit audio, but, you know, I will be scaling up soon enough,
32:04
but all law, right?
32:07
So that's the problem with medical practices is your practice is not particularly purchasable
32:13
at the end of the day, like that's not actually valuable what I do with my hands.
32:18
Like it's only valuable for me while I'm doing it.
32:21
Once I'm not able to do it anymore, there's really very little value to anyone else.
32:25
And so that has been a problem of people getting into their career and they want to sell
32:29
their practice and there's nothing to sell, you know, and I've known people very well-known
32:33
people that have had to just close their doors because there wasn't anything to sell.
32:38
So you have to like plan ahead and put in the people and the processes and create that
32:43
place where other physicians want to be and have the right people that that's what they
32:50
want.
32:51
They want their name on their door, but they're really okay with it being a group of people
32:55
and not taking on the sole liability, you know.
32:59
And so that works for them is I work here.
33:04
I think physicians always have to have their own brand.
33:06
I don't care where you work, you know, if you work at, you know, whatever plastic surgery
33:11
and it's just a plug and play, you don't really have a practice.
33:15
You're truly a cog in a wheel, but I think to really grow the practice and be successful
33:20
like you have your own brand within a brand and grow other people.
33:25
So there's a point where you have to hand off and you have to empower the other people
33:31
that you're working with and validate them.
33:34
So once you've built your name, you validate them as surgeons and have to be, you know,
33:40
to the level that you're comfortable doing that and you're like, they really are a good
33:43
surgeon.
33:44
They really are good with people and it's been more of your time developing those younger
33:49
people to have a practice that at the end of the day, either those people want to stay
33:54
there, you know, and then some people sell to PE and just sell their soul, but that's
34:00
not what I'm going to do.
34:01
Yeah.
34:02
Gotcha.
34:03
You can do that.
34:04
Like you're not going to do that if you're a sole practitioner because there's, you leave
34:08
and there's nothing.
34:12
So that's stuff that no one puts that much thought into whenever they're saying they
34:17
want to be a doctor or going into it or, you know, a lot of us get to that point where
34:23
I don't want to be an employee.
34:25
I feel like I'm being taken advantage of as an employee and so that's your option is
34:29
going out on your own.
34:32
But they don't teach that in medical school because you're learning how to do surgery.
34:36
Right.
34:37
And to be a good doctor and a surgery and my own conspiracy theory is they purposefully
34:43
don't because they could have business classes in med school.
34:46
You could have that that would be easy to add in, but do they do that?
34:50
No, because these are academic institutions that employ physicians.
34:54
If you were smarter about negotiating your contract, that is not to their advantage.
35:02
There'd be a lot more private practice.
35:03
It seems.
35:05
Could be a lot more private practice and then they would just have a harder time because
35:09
there's really, I don't know if I should say it or not, but there's actual like publications
35:17
that have looked at this too is they will burn you out.
35:22
Like they know that doctors will give 110 percent.
35:25
You have a credit code.
35:26
Yeah, that's what you're, you signed up for, you know, you signed up for this.
35:31
You know what you're doing?
35:32
You will give 110 percent until you're absolutely burned out.
35:34
And the problem is that you're running in someone else's wheel.
35:37
It's not yours.
35:38
So is, you know, 110 percent is a whole lot different when it's your own wheel and you
35:43
can see the fruits of it and you can see things growing.
35:45
But if you're not really seeing the fruits of that and you're just an employee, they don't
35:50
care if they burn you out and they go on to the next one because they're going to get
35:54
somebody who's going to take a, you know, cheaper deal because they just came out of school
35:59
and they don't really care if it's someone with 10 years of experience or two years of
36:04
experience, the billing is still going to be the same, you know, so that's my conspiracy
36:10
theory of I don't think we advocate for ourselves enough.
36:14
I don't think that we speak up for the people that need, the people under us, the people
36:23
younger than us that need that financial education and because once you get up and you're the
36:30
dean of the department, you're in those meetings or maybe you're not if it's a bigger institution
36:37
and you don't have to say so my conspiracy theory for it seems legit to me.
36:44
Good business classes in there.
36:47
We had, you could make it an elective.
36:50
We had electives on what kinds of ridiculous things.
36:52
Oh, like what?
36:53
Were you learning about Taylor Swift?
36:55
No, that would have been fun though.
37:00
You know, I wish I could remember all of them now.
37:03
History of rock and roll.
37:05
That was one of my electives at St. Hosenstead, the one year that I went.
37:08
That sounds really fun.
37:10
Oh, there's different things that I remember what it is, but there was stuff that is
37:15
just totally not relevant to me now, but.
37:18
Underwater basket weaving.
37:21
Yes, but it could be done.
37:25
Influential people just love to get their way at that's how they got there.
37:32
The expense of others, unfortunately, yeah, yeah, it's, it does happen and I just think
37:43
we could advocate for ourselves and for our patients better because we could provide
37:46
better patient care if we weren't burning people out, you know, if we weren't asking
37:51
people to work more than they probably should and, you know, 80 hours a week, but you
37:58
know what, Dr. Smith, you're doing it for the patients.
38:02
It's for the patients.
38:03
It's for the patients.
38:04
Yeah.
38:05
I was, I was resident before the 80 hour week rule.
38:08
Oh, well, I was only saying 80 hours.
38:10
I was a, that was a rule, so they cannot work more than 80 hours now.
38:15
Oh, geez.
38:17
So when I was in residency, they implemented that rule and took a few years to actually really
38:23
implement it.
38:24
Wow.
38:25
So we were working, I have no idea how many hours we worked, but it would be a 24 hour
38:31
shift and then a eight hour shift and then another shift and after your 24 hour shift,
38:36
you would work to like noon the next day and then you'd have the rest of that day off,
38:40
but then you'd come in for your next like normal shift and then have two normal shifts
38:44
and then a 24 hour shift and I don't know how many hours that is, but we were also young
38:50
in 24 hour shift.
38:51
We were young and stupid and when we had a half a day off, we're like, you're going to
38:55
go to the pub and I'm sure it is.
38:59
So it wasn't like the best, you know, you're 20 something or I mean, you are in effect
39:05
invincible.
39:06
You think you're invincible and you're not for obvious reasons.
39:10
There were laws past that that's a bad idea, but so can't have you cutting people open
39:17
and you're we're on a 20, you're on hour 23 of a 24 hour shift and yeah, bad idea.
39:26
But so there's rules against the eight hours, 80 hours.
39:31
That's nuts.
39:32
I learned a lot about people in medicine and surgery life hours.
39:41
Well, thank you for doing this with me and thank you.
39:43
Thank you.
39:44
I really appreciate it.
39:45
Yeah.
39:46
Sharing your stories and your wisdom and your well, Dr. Sturm, it has just been, it's been
39:53
a blast working with you and so thank you for trusting us to do what we do with you
40:00
for your podcast.
40:01
Thank you.
40:02
Thank you for podcasting for all your podcasting.
40:05
Thank you.
40:06
Yeah, you really do an amazing job and you make my life very easy and you do really great.
40:11
So well, thank you and I can accept no credit.
40:15
It's all my video producers.
40:17
So, but Kayla and she ain't.
40:20
Well, thank you for watching.
40:22
You can find me at www.Drangelisturm.com, our beauty unveiled and Freddie, how can they
40:29
find you?
40:30
Now, speak podcasting S-P-E-K-E podcasting.com, misspelled because of my boys, Sparrow and Z,
40:37
named after my two dogs.
40:38
I love it.
40:39
Thank you.