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How Rehab Works · Stuff You Should Know

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  Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.
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  Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to Stuff you should know
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  Speaker 1: from house Stuff Works dot com. Hey, welcome to the podcast.
• 0:17
  Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark. There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant doing his cheeks.
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  Speaker 1: He's just informed that he has to do that for
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  Speaker 1: the rest of our career, whether he likes it or not,
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  Speaker 1: because that's our lucky thing. My cheeks are actually expanding,
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  Speaker 1: they're actually looser than they were two and a half
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  Speaker 1: years ago. I know, you look like Walter Matthoud. I
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  Speaker 1: love he's one of those guys that he looked elderly
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  Speaker 1: when he was like in his forties or twenties. I
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  Speaker 1: think he kind of had that hunched overlook, that sarcopenia,
• 0:46
  Speaker 1: yeah if you will, yes, nice, And that sarcopenia that's
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  Speaker 1: muscle loss age related muscle I thought that was literally
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  Speaker 1: the hunch bad. That's where you get the hunch. Sure, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: like you lose control or you just lose your muscle mass,
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  Speaker 1: including the stuff that had you stand up right, So yeah,
• 1:03
  Speaker 1: you're right, okay. But he also had like the jewels
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  Speaker 1: in like a five o'clock shadow that was ever present.
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  Speaker 1: But he was just a great actor, dude, I love him. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: he was great in that Bad News Bears everything else.
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  Speaker 1: Starting Bad News Bears is a good one to start
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  Speaker 1: this one with. Because he was a drinker. He was
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  Speaker 1: a drinker. Um. He was what you might call an alcoholic,
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  Speaker 1: all right. Yeah. In the seventies though, it was everybody
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  Speaker 1: was an alcohol driver around with the Schlitz in your car.
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  Speaker 1: And it is no big deal. Now, let's say, but
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  Speaker 1: we remember check this is the third out of three.
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  Speaker 1: This is the end of the trifecta. This is the
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  Speaker 1: jewel in the Crown Jewels and the Family Jewels. This
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  Speaker 1: is it. Um, we did addiction, prohibition and now rehab. Yes. Uh.
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  Speaker 1: If Walter math How had wanted to go to dry out,
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  Speaker 1: as they say for is alcoholism in bad newspairs in
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  Speaker 1: the mid seventies, he would have had a very limited
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  Speaker 1: choice of where he could go. Probably most likely he
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  Speaker 1: would have gone to what is called a sanitarium a
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  Speaker 1: k A. An insane asylum a k A. A mental
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  Speaker 1: hospital or a regular hospital. Yeah yeah, but most likely
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  Speaker 1: it would have been uh, some sort of medical clinical
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  Speaker 1: setting where his addiction was treated. Yeah. It wouldn't be
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  Speaker 1: uh private Malibu Promises by the Sea Shore. Not yet
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  Speaker 1: because rehab as we know it today, UM, which which
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  Speaker 1: makes the cover of tabloids as frequently as any celebrity,
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  Speaker 1: just the concept of rehab does um didn't start until
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  Speaker 1: the eighties. Actually that I thought that was very shocked
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  Speaker 1: by that. Have you ever seen Value of the Dolls?
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  Speaker 1: I have not, believe it or not. That's a good movie.
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  Speaker 1: I had actually forgotten that i'd seen that movie until
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  Speaker 1: I reread this article that I wrote. Right, I think
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  Speaker 1: I've seen the movie. It's I guess at some point
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  Speaker 1: around there was like, oh, yeah, Value the Dolls. It's perfect.
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  Speaker 1: If you have not seen Value the Dolls, go see it.
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  Speaker 1: It's an excellent movie. And Petty Duke's character goes to
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  Speaker 1: dry out at you know, a sanitarium, which means you know,
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  Speaker 1: shock treatment and being strapped down so you can't drink.
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  Speaker 1: It could be and like if you had been going
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  Speaker 1: to one, you know, far enough ago and say the thirties,
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  Speaker 1: and you're a particularly rebel rousing alcoholic or drug addict,
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  Speaker 1: they may have lobotomized you. Yeah McMurphy style, yep, exactly,
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  Speaker 1: So Josh, you kind of blew the cover off of
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  Speaker 1: the fact. Well that was the first fact. Let's start
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  Speaker 1: till the eighties. Hey, I've been doing this a while.
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  Speaker 1: Uh so where are we now then? Well, um, now
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  Speaker 1: as they exist now, as I exists now, one of
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  Speaker 1: the other things that would have changed. Um that anyone
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  Speaker 1: listening to our prohibition an addiction podcasts, I would know
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  Speaker 1: that when the other things that changed and burgeoned alongside
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  Speaker 1: of rehabs as we know it, um, non medical facilities. Right, Um,
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  Speaker 1: is the idea that addiction is a brain disease, which
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  Speaker 1: we should cover real quick. Yeah, a little rehash. So
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  Speaker 1: before it was stunt gravy. It was blamed on the
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  Speaker 1: demon juice, right, it was inherent in that substance. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: that was the evil thing, was the substance itself. Then
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  Speaker 1: it shifted and all this started about the nineteenth century,
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  Speaker 1: late eighteenth century, early nineteenth century. The concept of addiction
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  Speaker 1: came about. Then it shifted from the stunt gravy to
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  Speaker 1: the person. It was a character flaw, right, Yeah, exactly,
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  Speaker 1: something's wrong with you because you are not able to
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  Speaker 1: drink and you have a weak will, not able to
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  Speaker 1: not drink until you fall down flat right exactly. And
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  Speaker 1: then finally in the eighties, I would say about the eighties,
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  Speaker 1: the the idea that addiction is a brain disease, that
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  Speaker 1: there is a process that an adict undergoes, a substance
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  Speaker 1: user undergoes and becomes a substance abuser. That is the
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  Speaker 1: direct result of this substance hijacking that person's reward center
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  Speaker 1: in their brain. That the the decision of whether or
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  Speaker 1: not to um engage in the that risky behavior or
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  Speaker 1: um do that substance, snort to shoot it, smack it,
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  Speaker 1: slam it, drop it, that kind of thing, UM is
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  Speaker 1: out of the user's hands, and therefore they're an addict.
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  Speaker 1: It's a disease. It's a chronic disease. UM that will
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  Speaker 1: that that has relapses and all that kind of stuff.
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  Speaker 1: It needs boosters. So that model, the brain disease model,
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  Speaker 1: along with the creation of rehab, uh, is where we
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  Speaker 1: are now. Well yeah, and it's it's uh, well, it's
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  Speaker 1: not funny because I'm sure you're playing this, but the
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  Speaker 1: fact that you mentioned UM, the temperance movement and prohibition UH.
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  Speaker 1: In figuring out what addiction was, they actually ended up
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  Speaker 1: leading to rehab because back in those days. They what
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  Speaker 1: you what were they called sober houses? Yeah, so we're
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  Speaker 1: locked up basically right where you can't drink. Did you
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  Speaker 1: see them? Did you see the picture? You don't get
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  Speaker 1: the pictures to you know, Okay, so check that picture out.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's Carrie Nation, the head of the Women's
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  Speaker 1: Christian Temperance Union, standing next to you. A man who's
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  Speaker 1: taken a sip and standing at a bar looking a
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  Speaker 1: little upset. The definition of buzz kill exactly. So the
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  Speaker 1: temperance movement definitely gave rise to rehab by setting up,
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  Speaker 1: like you said, what are called sober houses like the
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  Speaker 1: drunk tank. Almost like on Andy Griffith you would lock
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  Speaker 1: up the drunk of course, you know on Andy Griffith
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  Speaker 1: they were the guy was in the drunk tank. Otis
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  Speaker 1: I think for weeks and we think they more resembled
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  Speaker 1: like you know, halfway houses for that are like transitional
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  Speaker 1: homes between prison and society. I wouldn't know about those.
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  Speaker 1: I think you know, your dad's house, okay. I think
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  Speaker 1: that um that they they resembled that. It was like
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  Speaker 1: this house is among houses and you can't get booze there.
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  Speaker 1: You can't bin bring booze you kind of need to
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  Speaker 1: say where you're going and why, and um that they
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  Speaker 1: set up these houses called sober houses that were sequestering
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  Speaker 1: people from regular society because alcohol was out there, and
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  Speaker 1: that was like the first rehab centers in the United
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  Speaker 1: States and the forties. I think, man, that's crazy they
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  Speaker 1: did this that long ago. And then we did the
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  Speaker 1: failed Noble experiment prohibition, which was basically like, if you
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  Speaker 1: can rid society of alcohol, you can rid society of alcoholics.
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  Speaker 1: But you can't. So maybe we can only set up
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  Speaker 1: places for them if they have troubles. Right, they went
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  Speaker 1: back to the sober house idea. It's interesting that prohibition
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  Speaker 1: actually kind of lead to rehabilitation clinics and more drinking.
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  Speaker 1: Well that's not true because they said, overall I went
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  Speaker 1: down butt across the board, but the alcoholics, the number
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  Speaker 1: of alcoholics increased, Yes, exactly, right, So Chuck, where are
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  Speaker 1: we were past the nineteen thirties. Oh. One of the
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  Speaker 1: other things that came up, not just rehab like as
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  Speaker 1: we understand it today, like a place where you go
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  Speaker 1: that's sequestered from the temptation of society to to rehabilitate yourself. Um.
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  Speaker 1: One of the other things that came about as a
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  Speaker 1: director's role of prohibition in the Temperace movement is UM
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  Speaker 1: twelve Step programs specifically alcoholics anonymous, right yeah, Dr Bob
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  Speaker 1: and Bill w Robert Smith and Bill Wilson created this
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  Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty five. And I don't think I realized
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  Speaker 1: it was that old either. Yeah, long time. And remember
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  Speaker 1: Bill w wanted to um give everybody acid who came
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  Speaker 1: through the program because he was like really great, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: he thought it might help. Uh yeah. That was the
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  Speaker 1: first support group treatment program in the twelve steps has.
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  Speaker 1: Uh well, let's not jump there, let's let's just finish
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  Speaker 1: the history out. Well, the the International Order of Good Templars,
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  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, they they were a society dedicated to assisting
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  Speaker 1: UM alcoholics during the Temperace movement, supporting and they created
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  Speaker 1: the support groups that eventually gave rise to this A
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  Speaker 1: A model that's improven, like you're about to say, so successful, yeah,
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  Speaker 1: which we'll get to and then chuck right at this
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  Speaker 1: point thanks to a a almost exclusively and the idea
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  Speaker 1: that um, you you can you can treat, you can
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  Speaker 1: lick it, yeah, you can treat addiction, especially in a
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  Speaker 1: medical setting. UM. Before the advent of the eighties. UM,
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  Speaker 1: the the US started throwing money not just that eradicating UH,
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  Speaker 1: the the supply of illocent substances, but also the demand
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  Speaker 1: and even more so the demand. Under Nixon, right, Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: Dick Nixon put two thirds of his drug kind of
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  Speaker 1: anti drug policy money toward UH recovery and treatment, which
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  Speaker 1: is a really kind of a forward thinking thing if
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  Speaker 1: you think about it in today. For Nixon, you would
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  Speaker 1: have thought he like, let's throw all of it towards
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  Speaker 1: locking people up. But Ford came along and read distributed
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  Speaker 1: that to about a half and half model, half toward
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  Speaker 1: policing and arresting and trying to get drugs off the street,
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  Speaker 1: and half towards treating people with the disease. Why is that,
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  Speaker 1: I chock, it's ironic because you might have heard of
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  Speaker 1: the Betty Ford Clinic, and that was his wife who
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  Speaker 1: had a pretty bad pill addiction and alcoholism problem, and
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  Speaker 1: she started it. She was like, oh, I can get
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  Speaker 1: clean and I should set up a treatment center. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and she did. In Rancho Mirage, California, the Betty Ford
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  Speaker 1: Clinic UM in two had opened its doors, and that
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  Speaker 1: I think was one of the models for the current
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  Speaker 1: incarnation of rehab. That was the first big and I
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  Speaker 1: know celebrities went there, but that was just the first
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  Speaker 1: all star treatment center that you heard on the news
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  Speaker 1: and probably not probably most definitely because her name was
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  Speaker 1: on it, and it also um her lending her name
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  Speaker 1: to that treatment facility and admitting that she had been
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  Speaker 1: addicted to you know, pills and booze um it was.
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  Speaker 1: It also had a lot of a big effect I
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  Speaker 1: think on getting people into treatment because she it's it
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  Speaker 1: was it is still but it was at the time
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  Speaker 1: even more so such a shameful thing to be addicted
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  Speaker 1: to something. Um still is, but it's way more accepted now.
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  Speaker 1: But because in like religious circles, I know, it's still
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  Speaker 1: pretty pretty shameful. Sure, I would definitely imagine so um
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  Speaker 1: but but I think hers putting her still, like even
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: the first lady can get hooked then, you know, but
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  Speaker 1: again yeah, and if the first lady can kick it,
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  Speaker 1: then I can too. You know what other effect it
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  Speaker 1: had a dobt what people with the name Ford not
• 11:24
  Speaker 1: naming their daughters Betty. I'll bet you would name your
• 11:29
  Speaker 1: daughter Betty Ford, would you know? Well, I might, but
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  Speaker 1: I'm kind of a jokey kind of guy. Betty Ford Clark,
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  Speaker 1: Betty Ford Clinic Clark. That reminds me. Actually, I think
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  Speaker 1: I might have told you this. My friend Joey used
• 11:41
  Speaker 1: to say that if he ever had a son, he
• 11:43
  Speaker 1: would name him Thomas Magnum Dorlc. His last name is Dorla.
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  Speaker 1: I think that's a good I thought was pretty good.
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  Speaker 1: It's a good name. But he had like three sons
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  Speaker 1: that didn't name any of them that. So, so he's
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  Speaker 1: a liar. He's a liar, and he's been called out
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  Speaker 1: as a liar on that's I don't think he listens. UM.
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  Speaker 1: Once Reagan got into UH to office, the UM policy
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  Speaker 1: of UM paying more for policing the supply side than
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  Speaker 1: paying any attention to the demand side, it was continued. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: the war on drugs, the war on drugs in earnest,
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  Speaker 1: but by this time people were seeing like, Okay, rehab
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  Speaker 1: can work. It's a viable solution to treating our nation's
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  Speaker 1: substance abuse problems. And UM it was kind of etched
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  Speaker 1: in popular culture and then in the American psyche. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: and it boomed, like private institutions all over the country
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  Speaker 1: started popping up. Yeah, And I think also that just
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  Speaker 1: say no campaign, and like the idea of like, you know, drug,
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  Speaker 1: the drug addiction and how bad it was probably got
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  Speaker 1: a lot of kids, a lot more kids thrown into
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  Speaker 1: rehab by their parents than it ever been before. You know. Yeah,
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  Speaker 1: like thirteen year old to snugs and beer out one night.
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  Speaker 1: They're all of a a sudden in rehab exactly. I've heard
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  Speaker 1: stories about that. Didn't you go to high school. I
• 13:00
  Speaker 1: did go to high school. So check. Let's talk about
• 13:03
  Speaker 1: different types of treatment. There's four really actually three technically four.
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  Speaker 1: And by the way, I need to change the headings
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  Speaker 1: of this. I need to switch to chapter headings, I
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  Speaker 1: realized because it's very misleading. Well, we can do it
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  Speaker 1: on the fly. I'm gonna start with inpatient. Is that
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  Speaker 1: still correct? Yeah? Okay, impatient? And this we should point
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  Speaker 1: out this can take place, um in a private facility,
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  Speaker 1: it can be in a hospital. Still um. I think
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  Speaker 1: prison you said is a is a big place for
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  Speaker 1: a forced rehab. It is technically, um an impatient facility
• 13:39
  Speaker 1: very much impatient. Yeah, you're not going anyway what impatient
• 13:42
  Speaker 1: is though, just like being a hospital stay, it means
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: you're they're living there. Yeah, usually for that twenty eight
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: days for any SANDERD. Bullock fans, probably more for this podcast,
• 13:54
  Speaker 1: for any Vigo Mortenson fans, twenty eight days, not twenty
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: eight days later. The other one was he in twenty
• 14:01
  Speaker 1: eight Days Did We Go? Yeah, he played a sex
• 14:04
  Speaker 1: addicted like football star or something like that. That's funny.
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: I ran into him like three times on one week
• 14:09
  Speaker 1: in l A. One time to the point where he
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: looked at me and he was like, are you following me?
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: I thought he was gonna kill me? So, oh no,
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: not Vigo Mortenson. I was thinking he's the creepy guy
• 14:20
  Speaker 1: from Buffalo sixty six. Vincent Gallo, Yeah, disregard that whole story.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: I could see him. Yeah, I wouldn't want to run
• 14:27
  Speaker 1: into him that third time. I'd be afraid of him
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: for thinking anything like that. Have you seen um Hide
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: and Seek? Now? It's an awesome movie. It is so twisted, interesting,
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: it's a thriller. Uh, Vincent Gallo, Um, Jennifer Tilly is
• 14:47
  Speaker 1: excellent in it. Darrell Hannah actually does a really good job.
• 14:51
  Speaker 1: That's pretty much the cast and it's um really something.
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: I'll have to check that out, all right. So where
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: were we? We were impatient we were staying overnight, John,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: just where we were, and that can range, like you said,
• 15:02
  Speaker 1: from twenty eight days all the way to basically when
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: you need to leave six months a year or when
• 15:07
  Speaker 1: your insurance runs out. Yeah, if you're in there for
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: a year, then you might be a hopeless case. Well
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: that'd be pretty bad. But you really just inspired the
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: hearts of a lot of people who have been in
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: rehab for eleven months. Just say that, and it can
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: be court ordered as well. And they also in some
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: of these long term programs can offer you like resocialization
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: because imagine being in a rehab clinic for three or
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: four months, six months, they're they're like keep your milk
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: and a refrigerator or failing that, a cool wet sack
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: out patient is next. That's UM basically where you go
• 15:45
  Speaker 1: in to visit on a set schedule. It could be
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: daily UM. But you're you're doing your regular life, you're
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: sleeping at home, you're going to work, and then probably
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: in between work and going to sleep, you're spending a
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: significant amount of time time UM in counseling, in group sessions,
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: twelve step maybe receiving medication. Methodone treatment usually takes the
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: form of outpatient treatment, and that's actually one of the
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: longest treatments apparently is um is methodone, prescription methodone treatments
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: for yeah, to get you off of the white pony. Yeah,
• 16:20
  Speaker 1: Whenever I see those on the documentaries, it's it's very
• 16:24
  Speaker 1: much outpatient. Like you literally see the junkie walk up
• 16:27
  Speaker 1: to the window to get his daily dose or her
• 16:30
  Speaker 1: of methodone. Lastly, there's partial hospitalization. Um. This is basically
• 16:37
  Speaker 1: the opposite of outpatient right. Um, well, it's not the opposite,
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: but it's pretty close. Rather than go to work from
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: nine to five, um, and then go to rehab, you
• 16:48
  Speaker 1: go to rehab from like nine to five during the day,
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: but you you stay at home and all that. Now,
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: what's I don't understand the difference between that and outpatients.
• 16:56
  Speaker 1: Outpatient you're just not necessarily there all day. You might
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: go for like your two hour meeting and leave every day, yes, okay, yeah,
• 17:02
  Speaker 1: whereas like partial hospitalizations, you're spending way more time there
• 17:06
  Speaker 1: during the partial hospitalization and treatment because you know, um,
• 17:10
  Speaker 1: after work. For outpatient, you're there for maybe a couple
• 17:13
  Speaker 1: of hours, three hours, but it's like a part of
• 17:16
  Speaker 1: your day instead of going home and sitting on the
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: couch and watching TV. You're going to rehab or going
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: to happy with with you don't want to do that, Well, no,
• 17:24
  Speaker 1: that's what I'm saying. I mean, oh yeah, we're going. Yeah,
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: after work. It's probably a good time for a lot
• 17:28
  Speaker 1: of people because a lot of people associate the five
• 17:31
  Speaker 1: o'clock bell ringing with that first drink exactly, and I'm
• 17:35
  Speaker 1: sure that's a huge part of it as well. Partial
• 17:37
  Speaker 1: hospitalization is where you're spending your days in rehab and
• 17:41
  Speaker 1: then you go home. That is your job. Yes, your
• 17:44
  Speaker 1: job is to get well. Prison. You mentioned prison or
• 17:47
  Speaker 1: I did, And when they do this in prison, they
• 17:49
  Speaker 1: take you out of the general population typically, didn't we
• 17:52
  Speaker 1: have somebody right in after the prison? Um? Yeah? The
• 17:55
  Speaker 1: listener mail on prisons, the guy was like, it's the
• 17:58
  Speaker 1: it was the easiest place to score drugs and then
• 18:01
  Speaker 1: I've ever been was prison. Yeah, so they I think
• 18:04
  Speaker 1: that's kind of cool though. It shows like a real
• 18:05
  Speaker 1: dedication to um rehab among prisons by by taking the
• 18:12
  Speaker 1: people away rather than pretending like there's not a problem exactly.
• 18:16
  Speaker 1: And I could actually see that being the case where
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: they said, no, we're rehabing people, but they're you know,
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: getting drugs being passed between the bars and readily and
• 18:25
  Speaker 1: other things. It's key stirred. So, Chuck, let's talk about treatment. Technically,
• 18:31
  Speaker 1: I would call this one how rehab works. I wanted
• 18:34
  Speaker 1: to switch those two children, because really types of treatment
• 18:38
  Speaker 1: was what we just talked about, right, and then how
• 18:40
  Speaker 1: rehab works is what we're about to talk about. I
• 18:43
  Speaker 1: just don't know how that got passed. Well it did.
• 18:46
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about how rehab works. Man. Well, it's
• 18:49
  Speaker 1: a long process. Don't expect to be out of there
• 18:52
  Speaker 1: in a week, although that one program that you point
• 18:55
  Speaker 1: out says they can do it in six days, which
• 18:57
  Speaker 1: one six months? Oh six months program? Yeah it was
• 19:03
  Speaker 1: that or six weeks, six weeks, I'm sorry, Okay, six weeks, Chuck.
• 19:08
  Speaker 1: So I would say, don't plan on spending more than
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: like a week in your rehabilitation clinic, would be my guess. Yeah, um,
• 19:15
  Speaker 1: you can. Also, we we failed to mention e r
• 19:18
  Speaker 1: S can technically be an inpatient rehab that lasts long
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: enough to get you over your withdrawals or to bring
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: you back to life from an acute drug overdose. So
• 19:28
  Speaker 1: if you are taken to the hospital odeed they'll keep
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: you there as long as you're physically or until you're
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: physically well, yes, which can drug that can yeah, it
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: can rehabilitate you, I mean you can, yeah, but so
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: it can last for as little as several hours, like
• 19:45
  Speaker 1: you said, months and months, possibly a year, right, but yeah,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: everybody who buys into the brain disease model of addiction says, okay,
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: because of this, there's there's a lot of facets to addiction,
• 20:00
  Speaker 1: which means there's a lot of facets to rehabilitation. It's
• 20:03
  Speaker 1: gonna take a while, yeah, yeah, yeah, but step one
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: is always just withdrawal, get the drugs out of your
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: body and get clean physically. Um. And you're not gonna
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: have any physical withdrawal from behavioral addiction compulsive behavior, but
• 20:18
  Speaker 1: you're still probably going to have a rough time at first,
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: you know, with the desire to do that. Um, when
• 20:25
  Speaker 1: you are stable, I guess, and probably before you're stable,
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: you're probably going to be introduced to a twelve step
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: program of some sort. Right now, did a A create
• 20:35
  Speaker 1: the twelve step? Yes? Okay, yeah, there was no such
• 20:38
  Speaker 1: thing as the twelve step before that. But there's all
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: sorts of variations on the twelve step. Now, yeah, and
• 20:42
  Speaker 1: one of the things, like we were saying, a A
• 20:44
  Speaker 1: is incredibly successful. It's been study after study after study
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: done on A A and um any kind of UM
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: relapse associated with the people who go through it, and
• 20:55
  Speaker 1: UM it's a very successful program. But it's also very
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: criticized often because one it's criticized for being too indulgent
• 21:02
  Speaker 1: on the addics ego right like this is not your fault,
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: it's all okay, or if you go through these steps,
• 21:09
  Speaker 1: you're going to be a great person. Um. And it's
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: also very reliant on a belief in God. Yeah, I
• 21:17
  Speaker 1: don't think there's it's not like a Christian God or
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: Judeo Christian God or any specific god. But I think
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: they call it like a higher power. And there's plenty
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: of atheist addicts out there, well they call it. I
• 21:26
  Speaker 1: actually looked at the original twelve steps today and they
• 21:30
  Speaker 1: say the word God in four of the twelve steps.
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: But on the before that first mention of God, it
• 21:37
  Speaker 1: says God as you understand him to be. So that's
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: the little caveat like we're not saying, like like you said,
• 21:45
  Speaker 1: the Judeo Christian God must be the one, but they
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: definitely say you've got to have a higher power here
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: or else. That's not gonna work, right. And the problem
• 21:52
  Speaker 1: is that there's a lot of people whose conception of
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: God is that they understand him to be non existent
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: or that I am God. Right. Yeah, Um, there was
• 22:03
  Speaker 1: like a joke that just flitted right through my prefrontal cortex.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: It wasn't funny, um, So chuck, Narcotics Anonymous, I believe,
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: and some others, but most notably Narcotics Anonymous UM has
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: adjusted the twelve step model to accommodate atheists as well.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: And you know, I bet regular a eight meetings or
• 22:24
  Speaker 1: a little less centered on that. Now, that would be
• 22:27
  Speaker 1: my guess. They probably wouldn't refuse you at the door
• 22:29
  Speaker 1: if you said you were an atheist. Oh, I don't
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: think they refuse you. I don't think it's it's to
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: think what they're what they're saying is like, if you're
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: an atheist and you don't buy into the God thing, like,
• 22:39
  Speaker 1: you're not going to be as successful as somebody who does,
• 22:42
  Speaker 1: because part of his like giving it over to this
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: higher power. So I don't think that they're exclusive or
• 22:48
  Speaker 1: anything like that. I think that it's like atheists aren't
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: going to do as well. All right, they didn't studies
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: on that winder. I'm sure they have. I didn't go
• 22:57
  Speaker 1: to that detail though, It's okay. CBC is that next
• 23:01
  Speaker 1: cognitive behavioral counseling, which is psychotherapy, and that is when
• 23:08
  Speaker 1: they I mean, they can treat mental disorders, they can
• 23:10
  Speaker 1: treat depression PTSD, and basically they're they're trying to eradicate
• 23:17
  Speaker 1: addiction from the life of someone by looking at their
• 23:19
  Speaker 1: behavior very thoroughly. That's most, um, most therapy that anyone
• 23:25
  Speaker 1: goes in for these days is cognitive behavior therapy. It's
• 23:28
  Speaker 1: like one of the most prevalent um and yeah, it's
• 23:31
  Speaker 1: it's looking at behavior first of all. It's recognizing the
• 23:34
  Speaker 1: patterns of behavior, especially destructive patterns of behavior, and then
• 23:38
  Speaker 1: figuring out why you're doing that and then eradicating it. Uh.
• 23:41
  Speaker 1: And it's this multi step process. Um. CBC is less
• 23:46
  Speaker 1: effective according to studies as twelve step programs by itself,
• 23:51
  Speaker 1: either one by themselves. Uh, twelve step usually beats cognitive
• 23:55
  Speaker 1: behavior behavioral counseling. Right, yes, what about meds. Well, if
• 24:01
  Speaker 1: you know you need MADS like methodone to get through
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: your treatment, then your rehab centers probably gonna have them
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: for you or and A. Depressants are a big one too,
• 24:10
  Speaker 1: And one of the things that's very effective is identifying,
• 24:15
  Speaker 1: usually through cbc UM other underlying comorbid conditions, like if
• 24:22
  Speaker 1: you have a binge eating disorder or you are depressed
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: and an alcoholic. Treating those two things simultaneously in the
• 24:30
  Speaker 1: same umbrella has been shown to provide the most success. Sure,
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: because if you're depressed and you can't get treatment for alcoholism,
• 24:39
  Speaker 1: if you're suffering through depression, and just leave the depression
• 24:42
  Speaker 1: alone because you're probably an alcoholic because of your depression,
• 24:45
  Speaker 1: probably or it could be because you're an alcoholic, if
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: that doesn't necessarily mean that carrying your alcoholism will carry
• 24:51
  Speaker 1: your depression, if you've gone into a clinical degree of depression,
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: right like a chicken or the egg kind of scenario. Yes,
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: to get to the other side. And acupuncture, Josh, you
• 25:04
  Speaker 1: mentioned a few non traditional methods. Acupuncture is one of them.
• 25:06
  Speaker 1: Have you ever done that? I have not, have you
• 25:09
  Speaker 1: It's awesome, Yes, I can imagine. It's one of the
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: most relaxing things I've ever done in my life. Actually,
• 25:15
  Speaker 1: I went to a place in l a that had
• 25:17
  Speaker 1: it was a school where you could get really cheap acupuncture.
• 25:21
  Speaker 1: Was Vincent Gallow Your acupuncture was actually but he used nails,
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: Tinpenny nails. It's very relaxing. It's not painful at all.
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: If you're a little weirded out by needles, because I'm
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: I'm totally freaked out by needles, but it's not like that.
• 25:34
  Speaker 1: I'm freaked out about them not um thoroughly cleaning their
• 25:38
  Speaker 1: needles enough. I've heard accusations of that other new though
• 25:42
  Speaker 1: not all the time. The ones I got were taking
• 25:44
  Speaker 1: out a little package. They're right in front of me. Yeah. No,
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: I'm sure like most of them, but there's ones out
• 25:49
  Speaker 1: there they're just like, yeah, just used some other guy
• 25:53
  Speaker 1: because I'm cheap. If they're wiping blood off the end
• 25:56
  Speaker 1: of them, I wouldn't get that. If you are a scientologist,
• 25:59
  Speaker 1: you might go in for l Ron's um patented addiction treatment.
• 26:05
  Speaker 1: Maybe we'll call it. Yeah, it's like a vitamin regimen
• 26:08
  Speaker 1: and exercise sauna sauna as part of it. Um what
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: else the Jude Daddy Is program we talked about that, Uh, nomads,
• 26:19
  Speaker 1: no meads at all, And I got when I don't
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: remember because I didn't go back and look, but I
• 26:23
  Speaker 1: got the impression that this they're kind of this is
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: something of a closely guarded secret, and it may or
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: may not be viewed suspiciously by conventional rehabs. But they
• 26:35
  Speaker 1: boast a six success rate for their six weeks days.
• 26:40
  Speaker 1: And yeah, they don't they don't use meds. It's all
• 26:43
  Speaker 1: just like you were bad. You're a bad person, can
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: they They're like, you eat like this, and they push
• 26:49
  Speaker 1: your head down into a dog bowl and then they
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: do a clockwork orange movie viewing experience, right, and then
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: six weeks later you're like, I'll never do that again, Josh.
• 26:58
  Speaker 1: Let's say you love Eastern medicine and things like acupuncture
• 27:03
  Speaker 1: and you're afraid that if you go into your traditional
• 27:06
  Speaker 1: rehab clinic that they won't oblige to those kinds of things.
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: That that is that a worry that you should worry about.
• 27:11
  Speaker 1: It depends on how much money you have. Really, Yeah,
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: some of the higher end ones will um combine a
• 27:18
  Speaker 1: lot of stuff, even cool stuff like helicopter rides or
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: wilderness survival, based on the idea that um things like
• 27:26
  Speaker 1: wilderness survival can can show you how self reliant you
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: can be. Um or. A helicopter ride is meant to
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: just be like, Wow, look how beautiful life is even
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: without booze um or. Yeah, maybe acupuncture, spot treatments things
• 27:42
  Speaker 1: like that, Like the higher end you go, that more
• 27:45
  Speaker 1: pleasurable the experience is going to be. I imagine, I'm
• 27:49
  Speaker 1: glad that works. But when I hear something like that,
• 27:52
  Speaker 1: I think, you know, look how beautiful that the world
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: looks from a helicopter flight along the shore of the
• 27:59
  Speaker 1: Pacific coast, Like you don't need drugs to witness this,
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: but you need a helicopter. Yeah, yeah, exactly, you come
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: out like hooked on helicopter. I guess they're what they're
• 28:09
  Speaker 1: looking for is just to inspire you with that notion
• 28:11
  Speaker 1: that yeah, I don't need it. So um, I agree
• 28:14
  Speaker 1: with you, though I think that's trying to be funny. No,
• 28:16
  Speaker 1: but it was funny and true, Chuck, which is the
• 28:19
  Speaker 1: best kind um there? This stuff actually does work. As
• 28:23
  Speaker 1: we said, people have been studying the stuff since they
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: started in the eighties, um, And one of the things
• 28:28
  Speaker 1: that they found that the most effective kind of treatment
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: is rehab where you are sequestered away or you have
• 28:36
  Speaker 1: some form of rehabilitation treatment. Right UM, a twelve step group,
• 28:43
  Speaker 1: and weekly counseling like cognitive every counts throwing everything at it. UM.
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: Meds are not necessarily included in that, but UM being
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: part of a group, especially twelve step group plus counseling
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: plus a stint at rehab UM is the most successful.
• 28:59
  Speaker 1: Is far as the rate of relapse goes to the
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: tune of eighty seven percent. The Target Cities Project study quoted.
• 29:06
  Speaker 1: If you do all those three things, that's an eighty
• 29:08
  Speaker 1: seven percent chance of not relapsing after six months. Yes,
• 29:12
  Speaker 1: and get this, this is surprising to me. I remember
• 29:14
  Speaker 1: this when you factor in treatment drop out to people
• 29:18
  Speaker 1: who just you know, we're like they were like, I'm
• 29:21
  Speaker 1: not gonna stay the whole twenty eight days, but I'm
• 29:23
  Speaker 1: gonna keep going to a weekly twelve step meeting and
• 29:27
  Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to counseling five times a week, which
• 29:29
  Speaker 1: is a lot. Oh yeah. Um. They still had a
• 29:32
  Speaker 1: success rate the abstinence rate with SEV so even without treatment,
• 29:38
  Speaker 1: Yeah no, no, and then at sixty actually it keeps
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: going down if you complete the treatment program aspect, but
• 29:47
  Speaker 1: you didn't go to the twelve step meetings and you
• 29:50
  Speaker 1: did go to counseling. So the two out of the
• 29:53
  Speaker 1: three minus the twelve step, you have a sixty two
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: percent chance. Right, So the twelve step, as they found
• 29:58
  Speaker 1: is is the most significant, followed closely by UM individual
• 30:03
  Speaker 1: counseling Yeah, usually CBC UM. And what they found is
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: that a person who goes to four twelve Steps sessions
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: a month or one even one counts individual counseling session
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: from a month more than anybody else has a better
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: chance of of success in in remaining abstinate. Well, that
• 30:26
  Speaker 1: says that these work. These programs work. They actually do work.
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: But here's the thing they work best. Again. Studies show
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: when the person is ready and willing to give up
• 30:38
  Speaker 1: this behavior. Yeah, that's what they always say. When you know,
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: you've got to be ready to change anything in your
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: life in order for that to change. And that makes sense.
• 30:46
  Speaker 1: Otherwise you're just going to be You're just doing it
• 30:49
  Speaker 1: for your your parents, or your wife or your husband,
• 30:53
  Speaker 1: and if it's not coming from you, then good luck.
• 30:56
  Speaker 1: Do you know what's funny though, what's that I just
• 30:58
  Speaker 1: realized this That was conventional thinking. But with the advent
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: of prison rehab, yeah, new information. Studies have also shown
• 31:07
  Speaker 1: that UM if you force someone into rehab in prison specifically, UM,
• 31:12
  Speaker 1: they will still there's they still have a pretty high
• 31:15
  Speaker 1: success rate and abstinence rate and even a lower rate
• 31:19
  Speaker 1: of recitativism recidivism. Right, it's a bone head word. Yes,
• 31:27
  Speaker 1: you're right. Oh was that the end? Well, and to
• 31:31
  Speaker 1: that tune, Josh. They've now got these awesome situations called
• 31:35
  Speaker 1: drug courts where they pass out drugs you take before
• 31:39
  Speaker 1: your sence. H. Drug courts actually are when UM it's
• 31:43
  Speaker 1: set up specifically for drug cases and instead of putting
• 31:46
  Speaker 1: you in jail, they sent it to you to treatment programs.
• 31:50
  Speaker 1: And out of the of people in treatment programs in
• 31:54
  Speaker 1: the United States were referred there by the courts into
• 32:00
  Speaker 1: and for Yeah, that's a lot. Yeah, let's talk. Let's
• 32:02
  Speaker 1: talk some stats, buddy. UM in two thousand eight, so
• 32:07
  Speaker 1: I wrote this, and I think two thousands seven maybe, yeah,
• 32:12
  Speaker 1: And UM, the I think that the most recent statistics
• 32:16
  Speaker 1: I could get, we're about two thousand five. So it
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: was about three point nine million people in two thousand
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: five that went in for treatment. UH. In two thousand
• 32:25
  Speaker 1: and eight it was pretty much the same four million
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: UM people in the US aged twelve or older, UM
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: went for treatment for drugs or alcohol or possibly both. Right, Um.
• 32:40
  Speaker 1: Of that four million people, that was a fifth of
• 32:44
  Speaker 1: the estimated people who were current illicit drug users in
• 32:49
  Speaker 1: the US in that same year, So not very many
• 32:52
  Speaker 1: people are going to rehab. No, But I also wonder, like,
• 32:55
  Speaker 1: what what percentage of that twenty million illicit current drug users,
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: which are people to admit to have used who to
• 33:02
  Speaker 1: have used a drug within the past month, aged twelve
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: year older, Uh, admitted to using pots and just pot? Right? Sure,
• 33:10
  Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think they take you at rehab
• 33:13
  Speaker 1: for pot. Oh, no, they do, do they really? Oh? Yeah,
• 33:16
  Speaker 1: there's pot. There's pot marijuana specific rehabilitation groups. I don't
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: know about clinics where you actually stay, but I know
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: there's there's there's marijuana addiction groups for sure. I did
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: not know that. Yeah. Seventeen million though, Hold on, this
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: is a much better stat seventeen million heavy drinkers in
• 33:36
  Speaker 1: the US age UM twelve year older. I wonder how
• 33:41
  Speaker 1: many of the twenty million and the seventeen million overlap. Right, Well,
• 33:45
  Speaker 1: you mentioned four million, and you said some were in
• 33:47
  Speaker 1: there for both. You actually had the stat um one
• 33:49
  Speaker 1: point three million out of the four million. We're in
• 33:52
  Speaker 1: there for both drugs and alcohol. Point eight million for
• 33:55
  Speaker 1: just drugs and one point six million for just alcohol.
• 34:00
  Speaker 1: So what does that say about what's the uh, the
• 34:03
  Speaker 1: real gateway drug I don't know, because we talked about that,
• 34:06
  Speaker 1: remember during the Prohibition podcast, and I predicted that if problem.
• 34:12
  Speaker 1: I think I predicted you. You didn't necessarily agree that
• 34:15
  Speaker 1: prohibition has taught us that if you legalize something, if
• 34:18
  Speaker 1: you prohibit something, that makes it more forbidden. But apparently
• 34:21
  Speaker 1: it's not the case. No, I agree with that. Well,
• 34:24
  Speaker 1: these numbers show different. I mean alcohol you can get everywhere.
• 34:27
  Speaker 1: So yeah, it's and it's clearly a big problem. That's true.
• 34:34
  Speaker 1: Maybe we're both wrong. Maybe let's talk about money, because
• 34:39
  Speaker 1: these things ain't cheap necessarily when you look at the
• 34:42
  Speaker 1: grand total, and especially if you want to meet Eric Clapton,
• 34:46
  Speaker 1: it's not cheap. Uh. In two thousand two, Josh, the
• 34:49
  Speaker 1: average cost of a program was about four hundred bucks
• 34:53
  Speaker 1: residential at thirty eight hundred and outpatient and method on
• 34:58
  Speaker 1: treatment for seventy undred dollars for the average cost of
• 35:01
  Speaker 1: a full treatment program. And that's on the that's the
• 35:06
  Speaker 1: average costs. They go up, you know, considerably if you're
• 35:10
  Speaker 1: interested in the luxury tour, right. UM, I had down
• 35:14
  Speaker 1: that promises from or not promises UM Crossroads, which was
• 35:19
  Speaker 1: founded by Eric Clapton's in the West Indies in Antigua. Um,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: there's fifteen grand per month. Apparently it's gone up since
• 35:26
  Speaker 1: two thousand and seven. It's now nineteen five a month.
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: All right, Yeah, it's a lot of money. That is
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: a tremendous amount of money, but it is far and
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: away not as expensive as the most expensive one that
• 35:40
  Speaker 1: I found that you found, I should say, um is
• 35:44
  Speaker 1: the Sanctuary Enviyron Bay, Australia. Holy cow, I didn't see that.
• 35:48
  Speaker 1: Eighteen thousand, five hundred dollars per week, per week a week.
• 35:53
  Speaker 1: So Clapton's is nineteen thousand, five hundred for a month.
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: It's a bargain. Passages in Malibu is forty to fifty
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: grand a month. Promises which you've all heard of because
• 36:05
  Speaker 1: been Affleck and Robert Downey Jr. Had a lovely stay there,
• 36:08
  Speaker 1: among others, thirty three thousand per month and they've you know,
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: they've all had their roster of celebrities depending on where
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: you live. Yeah, and isn't that just isn't that kind
• 36:21
  Speaker 1: of odd if you step back and look at it,
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: like like, celebrity and rehab is just their hand in hand.
• 36:28
  Speaker 1: Our fascination with both are equal well and in earlier
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: career publicity wise, So sure, ken which is weird. It
• 36:36
  Speaker 1: is weird. It's also weird when you look at the
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: fact that it says, uh, it's there's like a one
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: to one correlation of how how luxurious the rehab is
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: and what list a list or be list your honest
• 36:46
  Speaker 1: sen actor because promises, like I said, Charlie Sheen, been Affleck,
• 36:50
  Speaker 1: Robert Downey and then you work your way down to
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: uh Cottonwood in Tucson at a mirror, thousand dollars per
• 36:58
  Speaker 1: day has had the likes of Rowan Atkinson and Spice
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Girl Jerry Halliwell, thousand dollars per day is still that
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: ain't cheap? Okay? I take that back, then, Rowan Atkinson's
• 37:10
  Speaker 1: making some cheese. Apparently I didn't know that Mr Bean
• 37:13
  Speaker 1: went to rehab. I didn't either, And we shouldn't make
• 37:17
  Speaker 1: fun of Jerry Halliwell, because the Spice Girls are the
• 37:19
  Speaker 1: best selling female band of all time, is the right?
• 37:21
  Speaker 1: That was one of her tribute questions so it took
• 37:24
  Speaker 1: people are um kind of like, yes, yes, celebrities can
• 37:27
  Speaker 1: afford this. What if I'm an average Joe who's trying
• 37:30
  Speaker 1: to kick the dope. Well, insurance can cover a lot
• 37:33
  Speaker 1: of it. It used to cover even more. It used
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: to be about thirty was paid by insurance right um.
• 37:39
  Speaker 1: And then by two thousand three, UM, the burden of
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: cost had shifted away from not just the insurers, which
• 37:48
  Speaker 1: we're paying about eight percent, and not even the patients
• 37:51
  Speaker 1: who were paying just ten percent, but to the state
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: generally society taxpayers. Medicaids started picking up a lot of
• 38:01
  Speaker 1: the tab, up to sixty percent of the tab and um,
• 38:04
  Speaker 1: so let's say seventy percent between the insurance company, medicaid
• 38:10
  Speaker 1: and the patient, and then the rest was being picked
• 38:12
  Speaker 1: up um by um other state agencies. Uh. And so yeah,
• 38:17
  Speaker 1: the burden of cost shifted to the society, which made
• 38:19
  Speaker 1: a lot of people start to wonder, wait a minute,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: wait a minute, what are we doing here? Right? And
• 38:25
  Speaker 1: so the cost benefit analysis was born as far as
• 38:29
  Speaker 1: rehab goes, right. So there's something to that though when
• 38:32
  Speaker 1: you look at the fact that in two thousand three,
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: uh twenty billion dollars and change was spent in all. Overall,
• 38:39
  Speaker 1: Medicaid picked up six of that, so about twelve or so.
• 38:43
  Speaker 1: And you think that's a lot of money, twelve billion dollars.
• 38:45
  Speaker 1: But they did a study that they looked at the debt,
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: the cost of alcohol and an illicit drug use, including
• 38:51
  Speaker 1: tobacco tobaco, uh, and that includes healthcare, crime, property, theft,
• 38:57
  Speaker 1: stuff like that. Prison, prison, billion dollars and two thousand
• 39:01
  Speaker 1: two alone. That's so okay. So twelve billion paid by
• 39:07
  Speaker 1: the state to offset five billion in cost to society.
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: That's a pretty good deal. But well, that's what I think.
• 39:13
  Speaker 1: You get some of these people healthy. They might not
• 39:14
  Speaker 1: be robbing you, they might not be crashing their car
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: into your loved ones, they might not be uh stealing
• 39:20
  Speaker 1: things and go into prison, and you're footing the bill
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: for all that. There was a study by the National
• 39:26
  Speaker 1: Institute of Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholics that also found that
• 39:30
  Speaker 1: um for every dollar spent on rehab, three dollars received
• 39:33
  Speaker 1: in uh larger cost to society, which is not bad.
• 39:39
  Speaker 1: It's pretty good return on investments. What they call that. Well, yeah,
• 39:42
  Speaker 1: and you know when you break down those numbers sound
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: expensive and obviously the luxury places are expensive no matter
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: who you are. But I think they also skew the
• 39:50
  Speaker 1: average quite a bit as well. Yeah. Um, but if
• 39:53
  Speaker 1: you look at a per visit treatment average cost, it's
• 39:57
  Speaker 1: really not that bad. Out paid outpatient on methodone treatments
• 40:01
  Speaker 1: are about twenty six bucks per visit. That's the one
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: where you go to work and then go to rehab
• 40:05
  Speaker 1: after work, right, non hospital residential treatments, it's like promises
• 40:10
  Speaker 1: and in Crossroads seventy six dollars per day on average.
• 40:14
  Speaker 1: That's including every place. That's including like the place in
• 40:17
  Speaker 1: the back of Joe's crab Jack where they lock you
• 40:20
  Speaker 1: up for twenty eight days to you know, the place
• 40:23
  Speaker 1: in Byron Bay, Australia. So but when you break it
• 40:25
  Speaker 1: down like that, it's not that much money now and
• 40:28
  Speaker 1: even more so um methodone, which you will remember the
• 40:32
  Speaker 1: average is about sucks in two thousand two. It's also
• 40:36
  Speaker 1: the longest um overall, the longest treatment overall, and that
• 40:40
  Speaker 1: broke down to seventeen dollars and seventy eight cents per
• 40:43
  Speaker 1: visit to get somebody off of the dope, which is
• 40:46
  Speaker 1: pretty I think that's worth investing in, and that includes
• 40:49
  Speaker 1: the methodon too. Right, the actual Yeah, that's the whole,
• 40:51
  Speaker 1: the whole shebangah um. And then Chuck, there's also the
• 40:54
  Speaker 1: human uh expense that you're you're you're saving that cost
• 40:59
  Speaker 1: and invest in treating addicts. Right. Um. There was a
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: study by Biotie I think that said that there are
• 41:11
  Speaker 1: twelve million alcoholics in the United States roughly, right, And
• 41:15
  Speaker 1: if you consider that each alcoholic has a spouse, possibly children,
• 41:18
  Speaker 1: and family in some way, uh say, five people that
• 41:22
  Speaker 1: are in that alcoholics life, that means that sixty million
• 41:25
  Speaker 1: Americans are affected by alcoholism and affected not in good ways. Well,
• 41:32
  Speaker 1: I'm possibly creating new alcoholics for future generations to pay
• 41:35
  Speaker 1: for two. Yeah, you gotta think about that. So, Chuck,
• 41:38
  Speaker 1: I would say that that is the end of the
• 41:41
  Speaker 1: addiction rehabilitation trifecta. Actually, you know what we should mention though.
• 41:48
  Speaker 1: Did you read A Million Little Pieces, the book by
• 41:52
  Speaker 1: James Fry that was the specifically told by Oprah not
• 41:57
  Speaker 1: to read. Well, that's the deal is. That was the
• 42:00
  Speaker 1: infamous bestseller about a memoir quote unquote memoir about um
• 42:05
  Speaker 1: one young man's stay in rehab and it is awesome.
• 42:11
  Speaker 1: It was found out afterward famously to not be true.
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: After Oprah had said it was the best memoir she'd
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: ever read, and um, so if he took a lot
• 42:21
  Speaker 1: of heat over that. I read the book and it's
• 42:24
  Speaker 1: amazing and you should read it. I wrote the guy
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: letter saying, dude, I don't care whether it's true or not.
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: Just call it a novel and call it great. And
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: he was like, thanks, man, I really appreciate that he
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: wrote you back. Yeah, a letter and that well an email.
• 42:37
  Speaker 1: So I recommend people read it. Just don't get all
• 42:40
  Speaker 1: mad and today this isn't true. Just considered a novel,
• 42:42
  Speaker 1: and a very good novel at that. That's what I said. Okay,
• 42:45
  Speaker 1: it's really really good. And for every dollar um spent
• 42:49
  Speaker 1: on James price book, a million little pieces, Chuck, it's
• 42:53
  Speaker 1: fifty of that. Which so if you want to learn
• 42:57
  Speaker 1: more about addiction, rehab, prohibition, any thing like that, type
• 43:00
  Speaker 1: those words into the search bar at how stuff works
• 43:03
  Speaker 1: dot com and will bring up some delightful articles. And uh,
• 43:07
  Speaker 1: it's time now at long last listener meal, Josh, I'm
• 43:17
  Speaker 1: gonna call this email from a new twelve year old fan.
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: I saw this one from Emma, or maybe that was
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: Emma's mother's email address. I'm not sure. But it said, Emma,
• 43:28
  Speaker 1: no kids these days, they have their own email. Uh hi,
• 43:31
  Speaker 1: Josh and Chuckers and Jerry. I don't know when I
• 43:33
  Speaker 1: can do this, but I'm going to donate to Kiva.
• 43:36
  Speaker 1: I'm twelve years old and I'm going to get a
• 43:38
  Speaker 1: job walking dogs and babysitting, etcetera. As soon as I
• 43:41
  Speaker 1: do get twenty five dollars, I will donate it. But
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: to get the job, I have to print flyers to
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: pass out. To print flyers, we need to buy ink.
• 43:49
  Speaker 1: To buy ink, we need extra money. That isn't going
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: to stuff we need right now. But you do have
• 43:55
  Speaker 1: to break a few eggs to make an omelet. Emma.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: That's right. And if you want to work at the
• 43:59
  Speaker 1: omelet station, especially if you want to be the squire
• 44:02
  Speaker 1: of the OLEMT, that's right. You gotta break a few eggs.
• 44:05
  Speaker 1: But please read this part on the podcast, guys. Whenever
• 44:09
  Speaker 1: it happens, I am going to save up the money
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: because I'm getting this babysitting job, babysitting snotty nose kids,
• 44:16
  Speaker 1: so I can give this money to Kiva and tell
• 44:19
  Speaker 1: everyone if they have no excuse, if you have a
• 44:22
  Speaker 1: real job. That was from Emma and thank you very much. Emma.
• 44:27
  Speaker 1: I think my hat is off to you, Chuck. We're
• 44:29
  Speaker 1: wearing a cap. He would tip it. If you're one
• 44:32
  Speaker 1: of Emma's neighbors, please forgive her for her description of
• 44:35
  Speaker 1: your kids and hire her anyway because it's going to
• 44:38
  Speaker 1: go toward a good cause. That's right, right, um. And
• 44:41
  Speaker 1: if Emma can do this, you can do this too.
• 44:43
  Speaker 1: If you want to donate to the donate heck, Lynn,
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: you get the money back if you want, yeah uh
• 44:50
  Speaker 1: in twenty five dollar increments. You can go onto www
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: dot k i v a dot org slash team lash stuff.
• 45:01
  Speaker 1: You should know. Join our team, leave some messages on
• 45:04
  Speaker 1: the message board, make some donations, have a good time,
• 45:08
  Speaker 1: right agreed. And if you want to email us to
• 45:10
  Speaker 1: let us know what you're doing to save the world,
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: whether it be dog walking or babysitting, snot knows kids
• 45:18
  Speaker 1: or what have you, we want to hear about it
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: in an email. Send it to Stuff podcast at how
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: stuff works dot com for more on this and thousands
• 45:31
  Speaker 1: of other topics. Does it how stuff works dot com,
• 45:34
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• 45:36
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• 45:43
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• 45:46
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• 45:53
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• 45:56
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