Latest / WIPTHENRIP / Episode 4 - Loc Huyhn

Transcript

Episode 4 - Loc Huyhn · WIPTHENRIP

• Ryan: Hi everyone, I'm Sydney. And I'm Ryan. And this is Whip, then Rip. And for our fourth guest, we have Brooklyn-based artist Locke Wen. If you want to support us, like this video, follow us, and consider signing up for our Patreon at patreon.com/slash whip then rip. You can become a member at the Grower Tier for $1 or the Gutsy Tier for $5. Stay tuned and see how our conversation goes. It's weird how these wired headphones have come back in style. I know. I think about that too, where like you would think the AirPods I don't know about you guys, but I feel like I those things always die on me. I don't know if it's like the Gen Z and Gen Alpha kids or something, but it's like people are wired up like all over Brooklyn. That's so funny. I remember I don't know if anyone still does this, but there was like a brief point where they were trying to sort of like they do the TikTok voice and it's like I was just walking. So gripes, what's frustrating, broken, or irritating in art and culture right now for you? I love ironic work and I love work that's ⁓ you know, a bit cheeky and self aware, but I think there's this idea that being ironic and being like too cool to care is seen as a smart way approach art. Cause I'm I'm a deeply sincere person. Look, I had a great time in grad school, but there was definitely like this idea where it's not enough to make a painting because you think it's cool and you have to kind of steep it in history and over academicize it all and approach grad school in this detached academic way or approach your your work, especially like painting in this detached academic way. I know after grad school I felt like I had to almost kind of fall back in love with painting because like the last semester of grad school, I didn't even really paint. I just spent five months working on like a paper, ⁓ which was a bit depressing. kind of not working as much on painting itself. Was that because of the kind of stance of the people around you or like what was expected of the paintings? Yeah, I mean, it's working for the dissertation and stuff. I straight up had a professor on my committee, gave great advice, but he straight up told me that's like, look, the last semester, you shouldn't even be working on painting. You should be focusing on this dissertation. Like I said, I'm very sincere and I had to kind of fall back in love with painting for myself. A lot of the Works that I made after grad school were the kind of the beginnings of like my real artist career. And that all stemmed from me painting a picture of my mom cutting up fish. And solely it was just because I miss my mom and I missed her cooking and I missed our family dog. And so that made its way into a body of work that I worked on for over a year. Actually had a similar experience when I was at Micah. My last semester was like, okay, now you have to write your thesis. And I really didn't have studio time either. And so when you graduated, did you feel lost? Like who am I and what are the paintings I'm gonna make now? I'm kind of interested more about the experience of grad school and if they tried to lead you astray from things you were doing. If they did lead you astray, was that growth for you? I don't think that I was led astray. It helped definitely help me articulate what I was interested in, which anyone's curious, my whole dissertation and stuff was about semantics and semiotics and kind of signs and symbols and how they're attached to painting and very much a linguistic approach to painting, which has actually like forever changed the way that I looked at painting. I think for the better and in a positive way. Honestly, after grad school, it felt kind of more relief that I'm not shackled by this like body of work and this paper and all this previous baggage of doing the work of it all. And ⁓ yeah, I felt like I had to go back to the drawing board in a way and where I had to be like, okay, what do I genuinely want to paint? I've always been a figurative artist and I love figurative work. And I make paintings that I want to make and that I of things that I like. I think you're completely right. I think about that a lot and wonder if there's a broader shift to culturally away from The ironic because I just think of the nineties into the early two thousands, there was I mean, really I think about it a as attached to this idea of postmodernism, right? And everything's a critique of a critique of a critique, and everybody is thinking about themselves being watched. And so there is something that feels like is breaking open with that. I'm really curious because you're in Brooklyn and because I no longer am, cause I associate that sort of at least what we would have called kind of a hipster affect. Do you still see that as being present generally or do you feel find sincerity in the streets in Brooklyn and Ridgewood? I mean there's still that kind of detached affect, but there's there's sincerity here. There's sincerity around. It comes a lot from the New Yorkers, less so from the transplants. And I think even about Mom Dani, his appeal to me, I mean the The politics, but also just like his general way of being in the world. That feels like what, you know, is so refreshing about him is he feels like a real dude. He feels like an actual human being. It does seem like with the semiotics and ⁓ your work that it's sincere, but it also does seem like you're playing with different forms of visual association. because like you're thinking about your heritage. I know I saw you talking about, I don't know if you use the word comics. Perhaps graphic novel or illustration. And I wonder like how you think about those visual influences. Because that painting, the the fish painting you were referring to is really beautiful. Perhaps nostalgic feeling or tender, but there also is a little bit of a humor in it, like with the way that the fish is being cut. I don't know if that's how you think about it or if that's intentional. Yeah, I mean like I I think humor is a good way to also make work accessible to And ⁓ I know I try not to be as ⁓ mean spirited about my humor, ⁓ just deriving or like drawing influences from the graphic languages, whether it's cartoon, comics, or even designs from skateboards and t-shirts and stuff like that. I mean, that comes from like a genuine love for those source materials. And I kind of put that kind of visual vocabulary, not as, you know, to me, I don't think of them as low brow or anything like that because they're commercial and readily accessible. I pulled them in the same esteem as, you know, the vibrant history of painting. Like to me, Ed, Ed and Eddie can hang in there with Rembrandt. You know? It's so funny. It's so funny that you mentioned that particular show because I've started doing at the beginning of my classes, they'll ask students, share your favorite artwork. And it can be anything, regardless of ⁓ medium regardless of genre. And in the same class I had someone who shared Ed, Ed, and Eddie. And then there was other people who were like Van Gogh or, you know, Matisse or whoever it was. So I'm with you. And I feel like there's a connection between what you're saying about sincerity versus irony and the slapsing of the low and or I should say like low in quotation marks, like low brow and highbrow. ⁓ is that the same impulse to accept it all as equally human and equally important? Yeah, I think so, especially since they're all mediums telling a story. They're just different mediums, but to me they rely on a visual lexicon. So I think it's all fair game to me. I think they can all express ⁓ vulnerability, which I don't know, I strive to in my work to be vulnerable. And I think the I think the art world has lost a plot to a certain degree in being afraid to be vulnerable, or especially like a lot of younger artists being afraid to be vulnerable if they're seeing well these hotshot artists approaching things from this detached, ironic way. And they're like, maybe this is what I gotta do too. Yeah, I mean, vulnerability is such a complex thing in artwork and in life, right? Because it can be seen as a weakness, even though I tend to think of it as such a strength. And I wonder, like, do you ever get, I don't know, misunderstood in the work for it being kind of vulnerable in that way, or maybe even in life? ⁓ yeah, I I do, especially since I, you know, I use an airbrush. That feel comes it with its own type of baggage. ⁓ especially in the last kind of decade. There's like and I there's a lot of artists that I love that use the airbrush, but it's kind of associated with A certain type of visual trope, you know, a certain type of artist that will use the airbrush kind of ironically in a way where it's kind of yeah, not taking the craft seriously. Where it's I generally love the airbrush as a neat painting tool. Anything. I learned a lot about airbrushing, not from just looking at other people who've used the airbrush, but ⁓ from people who kind of use it in a utilitarian way, people who paint motorcycles or people who paint. Taxidermied animals or little war hammer figures. That's the stuff that I watch to essentially teach myself those airbrush tricks. Wow, I love that. How do you start incorporating that into your paintings? We're going on like maybe 10 years now or something, because Zach anything is because ⁓ Tommy actually gave me my first airbrush kit. ⁓ that's so sweet. Yeah, well, it was yeah, it was really nice of him, but it was also him kind of I d is like, I don't like what I'm making with this. You might find use out of it. I'm like, okay. That's funny. W were you just using kind of traditional brushes before that? Yeah, I was just using a lot of brush and a lot of like trying to figure out how to do things and blend them out kind of smoothly. And then once I got introduced airbrush, I was like, ⁓ this is this makes the blending a lot easier and it's acrylic paint. And I describe myself as an impatient painter. So this this works out well for me. But I mean lately I've been reintroducing oil paint to back into my practice as well. Not distance myself from the airbrush, but also kind of give the airbrush a partner to have a conversation with in my paintings in a way. It's so interesting how all of those, like the associations you mentioned again, lowbrow and ironic, ⁓ both are things that I think, you know, yeah, are associated with a certain type of painting that is done with an airbrush. ⁓ like you said, particularly, you know, in recent years. And I think it's You know, there's something in there about the way that ⁓ those associations can dog us or like chase us. But you know, it's funny because in your actual work, I'm trying to think of how to phrase this so it doesn't come off wrong, but it's like it almost doesn't matter, you know, because the work is so strong. And what I mean by that is I would imagine the style, you know, if it was any given material, even if it was charcoal, you would still come through. And I I maybe this is too broad of a statement, but in a way, I think some of that ironic work. That I think we're probably both thinking about similar things, it almost relies on that tool in this way to do a lot of the work. So, like when you're talking about symbolism, it's like the airbrush itself or the that particular effect is what's doing the heavy lifting, whereas subject matter and the content of your work is doing something entirely different. Maybe that's more of a comment than anything. ⁓ but I think it's interesting the way that you're using, you know. vulnerability, you're using sort of a nod toward the lowbrow, like collapsing of that lowbrow and highbrow. You're using it as material in a way. I think about airbrush as like boardwalk t-shirts too. which I actually I like love. I remember as a kid. For some reason I remember this specific trip to California where really wanted palm trees on a white t-shirt, you know? ⁓ yeah, I guess the question in there is just you know With the introduction of the oil paint again and and that conversation, is it something? Are those materials something that you think of as signaling certain things? Or is it just the most efficient tool? I think it's ⁓ I think it is a certain type of signal and kind of again, kind of rooting it back into history of painting and and I was already using like different materials. Like whenever I work on paper, I actually don't airbrush, I use a watercolor and Color pencil to get a similar effect. And I do watercolor studies for a lot of my paintings, very thorough graphite or charcoal sketches. A much more rooted in traditional painting practice than the work makes itself out to be. So I think it's a nod to. that and kind of like I mentioned giving the airbrush partner to have a conversation with when it comes to like the material. Like a lot of the works lately have been kind of mixed media to that degree in which it's not just relic from an airbrush. It's also oil or like I'll like introduce like oil pastel or something into it to give the texture a bit more variation. I'm wondering too just while we're on the gripes and the irony and detachment and everything. Do you get placed in shows with folks who are more working in that realm? Yeah. ⁓ and then again, this this is not a knock on them. Like a lot of them are like really good people and great artists. But I do like again, because I like use the airbrush I do like get lumped in sometimes with a certain type of artist. Yeah. I mean like I don't think it's a bad thing, but I think it's just interesting to see how other people perceive the work or how they see it fitting in. ⁓ like I said, just because I've I think of myself as very much a painter's painter. Me, airbrush is not like a silly tool that can make dumb squiggly lines or like make it look like an MS paint painting. ⁓ to me, I think it's been doing this lately where it's like I treat the airbrush kind of any other brush. It's just, you know, if I want to make a soft background that looks like an impressionist painting, airbrush for me at least the perfect tool for that. Yeah, yesterday when I saw your Instagram story and just seeing your painting next to Katherine Bradford's painting, I was I these complement each other so well and they're rendered so differently, you know. But I think it's interesting that people do put you in the box and I kinda hate that for you if you don't really love that because I think It's just work being next to other work really can just add different context and I I just loved seeing it next to Catherine Bradford's painting. I was like, wow, this looks amazing. Kathy Bradford is such a good ⁓ example of an artist who just feels deeply, deeply sincere. So I don't think I saw that post. Is that a current show? Yeah, it's a show that's put on by a collector of mine over in Rhode Island, I think. ⁓ but yeah, no, I know I've also kind of conceded like certain things like as an artist and that it's curation of like certain shows and stuff like that. That's not up to me. That's in the hands of the director, the curator, the gallerist, stuff like that. Rarely disappointed in the curation of show. I just think in a group show it's always cool to see the work in conversation with everyone else's work. ⁓ it's I don't know, I always view group shows as like a really cool kind of potluck in a way. I mean funny enough, a few years ago I was still I've been in shows called Potluck at Hashimoto back in their LA gallery RIP. You you were making me think too, ⁓ not to go backwards, but with the airbrush about how it makes me think of Fiji painters who were really good with spray caps. And I think both with ⁓ paint cans and with airbrush, I can't say it's something it it feels like it takes a kind of precision that ⁓ You definitely have a handle on I can't say the same. I feel like insofar as I'm painterly, it's that I'm ⁓ a little bit messy. And again, I don't even know exactly what the question is there. Perhaps, you know, how much ⁓ like graffiti language is in there as well. ⁓ for you. That's one. And then also what I'm really wondering is how good you are about cleaning the ⁓ the airbrush. I mean I I take it apart like once every other week, just douse it in like acetone, just to like strip it of all caked up and gumped up paint. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, it's ⁓ it's a bitch to like take apart. It is a bitch to maintain, but only way to kinda like keep it flowing consistently. And ⁓ yeah, no, I mean that ⁓ graffiti language very much is in there. I mean I've dabbled in graffiti. I wouldn't call myself writer just 'cause it'd be an insult to a lot of friends who actually I have a lot of friends who are actual graffiti writers who will go bomb a train and stuff like that. And ⁓ yeah, I mean I've dabbled in it and few things, but some of yeah, some of it isn't there. I mean like a lot of tattooing, like I mean, before going to school for art, I wanted to be a tattoo artist and also took up a interest in watercolor because a lot of the shops will paint flesh with using watercolor and stuff like that. And then also going back over and touching things up with like color pencil. Like I've learned certain tricks from that. Again, it's that language that made its way into my practice. It sounds so corny and academic to say like the counterculture experience. that has made its way into my work 'cause I was just a I was like a grubby punk metal kid that like I did didn't know how to play an instrument. So I figured the next best thing I can do to be involved with like my f in the music scene was like just draw band shirts for my friends. Do you still ever do any of that kind of stuff? Like album covers or things like that? Only drew like a couple album covers for like some friends and every now and then I'll take up like a design gig like I anyone's ever out in Houston, I designed like some matchbook covers for a neat Asian American diner called Agnes and Sherman. So check them out. So you were living in Houston, but you're you're you were born and raised in Austin, right? And now you're living in New York. Was there something in Houston that you were just like craving more of which led to the transition to New York? People described New York more of an art world than potentially Houston. Why did you shift and decide to just pick up everything and move to New York? It was a very much a right place and right time. And I've always entertained living in New York, like ever since undergrad, honestly. So I just like, okay, I'll make my way out there and meet up with like a couple of sketchy Craigslists. people and see how this goes. And I just happened to be having coffee with some friends one day and was telling them about how it's like, yeah, it's like my lease in Houston is up and I'm gonna be looking for a place and trying to see if I can maybe find a place here in New York. And they just happen to be like, well, we got a roommate that's leaving. If you wanna check out the room. And it just happened to be right place, right time kind of situation. I still have a lot of love for Houston. I mean like ever since living here, I Still been kind of like back and forth between here and Houston. I get that it's like, you know, New York is definitely more of an art world than Houston, but I think Houston is definitely underrated in the conversation, at least here in the States, just 'cause there's so many great institutions there. The Manil Collection, like just that whole complex. I tell people all the time, it's like, check out the Sai Twambli Gallery, because that place is amazing. Yeah. don't even really like Situambly all that much. But seeing his work in that gallery that's only lit with skylight, that's something ethereal about it. It's like seeing poetry take over a building. There's something, having come from New York, it's been so interesting to realize how the politicians and the reputation they've created for Texas really because that kind of poetic almost like transcendent experiences make me think of Martha too and you know, being around the the Judd work and how unless you're in the art world, you don't really get to hear about that as much. Our second category is good stuff. So what feels exciting, alive, or worth paying attention to right now? Being here and being green in New York. Like I've been here for like I moved back in October. I'm encroaching on my nine months since being here. I'm still excited to be here. What's your favorite stuff in New York? Look, I I love my truck like when I was back in Texas, but like public transit is a blessing. I love taking the train. I love people watching. I love seeing the view of the city as I am crossing that Williamsburg Bridge on the J or ⁓ train. ⁓ I still think it's magical. I don't know if that's gonna wear off in a year or two, but I still think it's magical. I love how accessible art is here and not just like Brooklyn either, because that's where all the artists live. But Even in like Queens and the Bronx too, like there's artists everywhere in New York. So that's been cool and it's been cool like meeting people too. I always found the relationship to New York to be a a little bit like an abusive relationship. And what I mean by that is that feeling doesn't ever wear off. So you're like, Fuck you, New York, but also you're so amazing and I love you. ⁓ yeah. That's so funny. Because it'll wear you down. ⁓ trust me. It's like I lost like forty pounds since moving here. You know, I'll I Walk a lot. Yeah. Is it stress too, if you don't mind me asking? Like I don't know. There's been a lot of stressful moments. So I don't know if that has anything to do with it. Like looking at your more personal Instagram that I recently followed you on, I just think it's so funny your stories, it feels like a treasure hunt. It's like you're you're navigating New York and like seeing what you can find that is humorous to you or is silly or I don't know. It's just so humorous to see. Yeah, like I said. There's never a dull moment here, so I I love that. And there's just art everywhere. Like not at just at the museums or galleries, but it's like if I just look outside my studio right now, I feel like that chain link fence with the railroad tracks behind it, that could easily be a painting or like a garbage bag that's tied to l a fence post or something could easily be a painting. That's just me being my corny romantic self. No, no. I you know, I've been I don't know if either of you have ever fucked with décollage, ⁓ which is almost like the reverse of collage where you pull things away. But having just been up there, one of the things I had kind of forgotten about that I love so much is when people, you know, they'll they'll put up the wheat paste advertisements in the subway and they'll get layered on top of each other and people come in with a knife and cut out sections of them and peel it away so it'll like reveal something behind it. ⁓ my god. Yeah, so yeah, I've seen stuff like that in the subways. I've also seen the layers of paint on the bricks or on the subway, and it looks like a fucking jawbreaker layer or something like that. It's insane. So this I don't know, the city has been inspiring me a lot. And I don't know, I feel like a lot of the times my work is definitely influenced by my like environment in terms of like the limitations, but also possibilities of it, just because I did feel like my work changed a lot when I moved. To Houston and that just happened to also coincide with me finishing up grad school too. And that was a very pivotal moment in my career. When I was in Houston, I felt like when I was even just changing studios, like getting done with Lawndale and then going to another studio, that had a profound influence on my work. And then when I had to move to a different studio that had another profound influence on my work. So I definitely feel like my environment subconsciously influences my work and what I'm looking at too. You'd mentioned before, you know, kind of looking back and the things you miss, and I'm wondering, do you envision actually making those paintings that you're talking about? Like the garbage bag on the chain link fence? I feel like seeing those moments and stuff out in the wild is more like me walking through the impressionist wing of a museum. This whole city is like a strange, wacky museum. So ghost is your influences, histories, and lingering presences shaping your work. I'm very much entrenched or indebted to the history of painting. Even though I'm drawing like my own Eastern or Asian influences into my work, I first fell in love with other European painters and stuff like that. But a lot of other paintings from around the world have also made their way into my work. It actually was something that I started in grad school where I would copy the compositions from still images from like cartoons and paint those. in like a reduced way. And again, even then that I wasn't even being creative there. I was just essentially doing what Liechtenstein was doing. Then I turned to history painting and genre painting in general and started kind of like, okay, what if I were to like take these kind of classical European paintings and insert people that look like me and my family? Even then that's not even a that original of an idea 'cause like Carrie James Marshall and Kenny Wiley did that. That big installation at Rice University, that was a common sight I actually saw at the Hong Kong City Mall in Houston, where I'd see just these middle-aged men playing checkers all day. And I was like, this looks like that Saison painting of two guys playing cards. And I was like, I can pose this. And it's weird because that image is kind of like a third image that came from me referencing photos and then combining that composition from that Saison painting and it produced this. And in a way, my work is kind of this emblem of this kind of third culturalism that I feel like I've experienced my entire life. Even the painting that's actually recently got also blown up and installed on a window of like people eating dinner around a table. Grown-ups table that was recently shown at Inman Gallery. That composition was derived from Van Gogh's The Potato Eaters. Hmm. Yeah, I can totally see that now that you're talking you're saying it. But I feel like that kind of reclamation and use of these other artists' composition, I feel like on the one hand, you're talking about it in this very conscious way, where it's like revisiting it to introduce perhaps what was not being Elevated in the way that it should have been, right? But then on the other, you're talking about influence and the way that it always works, right? Which is really interesting. And the grown ups table, maybe this is going in a different direction, but I'm thinking about how the light is just as much of a statement in that because I think of the potato eaters as such a dark, sort of depressing painting. I mean, a beautiful painting, but a dark one. And there is something that feels both light in Visually a and with light kind of you can see the light streaming through the blinds in that painting in your painting. ⁓ but then also the the scene, unless I'm misreading something, feels ⁓ sincere, feels light in spirit. And so I don't know i if that was at all conscious. Very much so, just because like the potato eaters painting, that's ⁓ very dim and dark painting. Yeah. But like I said, I wanted to like put my own spin on in that's like I'm familiar with this scene with my own family, but I never saw it as like this glib kind of a vent. And yeah, wanted to take the composition but do kind of an inverse of the palette and where it's very bright and lively. And another thing that I also pick up from like other artists is the usage of colors and like I use a lot of like fluorescence and like bright colors in my paintings. And that's all from my love for you know, if Peter Saul is not my favorite painter, then it'd be Matisse, honestly. I I love Matisse. I fucking love Peter Saul too. Yeah. It's interesting you saying that and thinking about your work too, because now that you say it, I'm like, ⁓ yeah. Okay. Yeah. It's weird. I did just harp on about like this kind of ironic detachment earlier. And Peter Saul is kind of emblematic of it, but I feel like he was kind of doing it before everyone else caught on and thought it was cool. Yeah, different era. And I I do think that there is the political kind of like meat. in his work. You know, sometimes it's just like wacky stuff, I guess. But a lot of the time I'm just thinking of like Ronald Reagan and and people who pop up in his paintings that it feels very pointed and critical in a way that I think of as the more ironic sorts of work in the world. Usually seems a little bit like apprehensive to actually say anything. And I'm realizing I I said light and I'm realizing that it's warmth. That might be a better way to Phrase what I was trying to say before is that your piece, the grown-up stable, feels really warm, whereas the Van Gogh is very cold. That's a distinction or a difference between what perhaps Carrie James Marshall or Kende Wiley is doing, that they're all considering similar things, considering art history, considering cultural history ⁓ or histories, but also with slightly different considerations. And a lot of that consideration seems to be in the formal approach. Every time I see your paintings, they make me so happy. And I don't know if it's the color. I feel like memories and you mentioned the word sincere. And I do feel like love and care in them. And I think that reflects in the work. A lot of the times I'm painting my family or like there was a period where I was painting like Western fantasy type of motifs with blending the kind of like said the East Asian visual tropes with the kind of cowboy Texas tropes, just 'cause I grew up in both cultures in a way. And even then it's like that's done in a very sincere way. Like, yeah, I used to like hate like I used to hate the rodeo and stuff like that, but I don't know as I grew up I like Texas is actually pretty cool. It's like barbecue is actually nice. I paint things that I care about and I care about my paintings. Sometimes I feel like I know, like, yeah, I can over academicize it, but sometimes it doesn't have to be to me like that deep. What I feel like you're describing is that you don't have to make excuses because the depth is already there. Okay, guts. Okay, so process, risk, and what it actually takes to make the work. I'm very traditional minded when it comes to making these works. Like I'll do studies or like a very in-depth graphite or charcoal or ink sketch. So there's a lot of Planning involved, but there comes a certain point where you just have to kind of just dive right in and say, fuck it. I work on multiple things at a time solely because it keeps me from being bored or I can take a break from one thing to go work on another thing, especially when I've been stressed out about work or like stressed out about something not resolving itself in a painting. I kinda also have to go back and give myself some advice that I've given to my own students, which is it's a painting, it can't hurt you. I was like scrolling back to paintings that you were doing in twenty nineteen and then looking at the most recent ones and your figures used to be more geometric and abstracted. And then I don't want to say that they're more realism, but they're more organic and I'm curious about the shift that happened there. It's very interesting 'cause I never would have thought like how much like photography or like photographs would be like such a important part of my practice, but I Prior to that, I was kind of like just going off and off the cuff with drawing these ⁓ yeah, like these figures in kind of a cubistic way and kind of reducing like the human form into like geometric shapes. When I was in grad school and yeah, twenty nineteen I was in grad school. So I would do things like reduce the nose down into like trapezoids and triangles and stuff like that. So when it was purely, if I understood you correctly, it's like when it was purely from your imagination, it was more graphic, it was more like almost modernist. And now as you are using these visual references, it's moving toward realism. And do you envision that turning into live painting? Are you asking if my final form is being a photorealist painter? Yeah, I yeah. I guess actually th my roundabout way was like. How how far are you gonna take that? Yeah, I mean, that's a good question. It's weird because a lot, I mean, and I have a love for photorealism painting just because there's like a cool, uncanny quality to it. I think to me, the photograph will always be kind of supplementary to the work. And I again even with photos that I use as reference, I take great liberties with them. Sometimes it'll be like a hmm, this fencing or this piping doesn't look good. here, but it's in the photograph. ⁓ wait, I'm making a painting, not a photo, so I could just get rid of it. I don't know. That's how I see it. Growth is the next category. It's funny, the way I have that phrase on my notes here is just what are the solutions you see? That could be in relationship to that question of irony, but it could also be really like, well where will you be in five years? I mean I hope to still be painting and making work here in New York. I'm still really green here, so I'm excited to see like what influences that I've been like kind of soaking up as like a sponge and how it'll affect my work. I like looking back on old work, not to be like, ⁓ and that wasn't as good as it used to be, but that is a very interesting thing. Is it sometimes I'll I will revisit a painting or like a motif. I know it's something that artists have been doing forever. And I always paint an up to date self portrait every year to like chart my growth, I guess. How long have you been doing that? I think since the second year of grad school. So that would have been like twenty eighteen. Eighteen. You have painted your family when you were away from them, potentially. So I'm assuming it's even more so now, but how does it feel to be so far away from everybody? I do miss my community and my family and friends back in Texas. But I mean, I call my mom every night to see how her day was and to say goodnight. I'm a mama's boy. Raised but I mean, raised by a single mom. So yeah. It's interesting, especially since the work I was making, even though it was about my family and I was away from my family, I was still very back in Houston. I was still very intimately and very familiar with Houston prior to moving there just because we went to Houston a lot growing up because of the large Vietnamese community there. And you know, we'd go and get dim sum and do like bulk grocery shopping because there's like Vietnamese groceries and Vietnamese produce and things that my family could find in Houston that they couldn't find in Austin and sometimes my aunties that had nail salons would buy things in bulk there and bring it back to their businesses in Austin. I was deeply familiar with Houston like prior to moving there. Granted it was like up until I was maybe thirteen or twelve. I just thought Houston was just a big Chinatown. Yeah, it's different being away from all that just because I think I've clung on to like these images of my family even more, but I've actually have been painting a few things that I've seen like around Brooklyn too. So I'm working on a series of these things that you would find in like ⁓ playgrounds and amusement parks. And it's for a show that I have coming up in Pittsburgh that's about like these amusement park attractions. And ⁓ I've been painting like fiberglass whales that are all over Brooklyn and kind of pairing them with things that I would see in like amusement parks and stuff like that too. Examining this interesting idea of these strange things that are made for play, ⁓ created by adults, and also this strange bastardization of like the natural world as well. Is that whale behind you now? Is that the whale you're talking about? Yeah, yeah. This is one of the whales. I've painted a couple others that I'll be showing. As you were saying that about the amusement park, it just is making me connect with how there's such a childlike quality to a lot of the themes. I mean, it's the most obvious thing in the world, perhaps to say. But when you mentioned amusement parks, it just made me want to ask. And I don't know if you'd agree with this, but I'm wondering if there's like a boyhood gaze that you're thinking through it's definitely kind of like examining these like childhood moments as an adult and also thinking of the adults who are like taking these pictures of like me as and doing these self-portraits of me as a kid and kind of thinking about context and how big the world like outside of like a picture like this is in comparison to like my tiny existence as a kid or something. It is strange like painting a self that you're no longer familiar with. Is there like a specific time frame of boyhood? Is it generally birth to 18 years old? Yeah. No, that's interesting because I think for me, like as I'm digging through like these photographs that I brought from Texas Over here to New York, the cutoff seems to be like ten and eleven. And I think that's when things like MySpace, digital cameras and all that stuff started coming about. Cause I'm referencing like the printed out like photos and stuff like that. And for me, I feel like that's been the cutoff age for at least this kind of body of work when it comes to boyhood. And I don't think that meant like boyhood for me, like ended there. It just meant access to those specific memories are now in a sim card that's like lost. In Leander, Texas. That's really interesting though, because it's not pre-digital, but it's like pre-social media, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe there's a question in there about social media now and like how you feel about putting this all under the maw of the like social media beast. Yeah. I don't know. I feel like the social media thing can go under gripes as well. Yeah. Where it's I don't know. It's a double-edged sword for sure, because I've gotten many amazing opportunities because of Instagram and stuff. It is a bit of a performance and act to like how you like present yourself on social media as well. Yeah, it's hard a very hard space to be vulnerable in. I feel like there's a lot of feigned vulnerability that happens. Before you'd mentioned pop art, I was also think thinking about the pictures generation folks and like Jenny Holzer. And it really actually that was when you were talking about the city and I think The thing that I'm becoming fascinated as we talk essentially is about media itself, you know, and I I think like the social media point and also I think maybe time is what I think about a lot in that and and how you're thinking about boyhood, but also there's the question of time as it relates to actually making a painting, the sort of distance between you and a memory and like filling that gap with the painting itself. I do like the idea that it's like these paintings like mark out like or are very idiosyncratic to like specific time and place. Like the Coca-Cola can that's in that grown-up sable painting. That's a nineties Coca-Cola can. As I'm working on like these paintings of these like weird fiberglass whales that I come across in Brooklyn and kind of pairing them with old images that are derived from like photographs of me in the nineties at like SeaWorld or Six Flags. There's like a strange to me, like timeless quality of these and what it's like ⁓ these weird attractions or these weird things that kids are supposed to climb on are kind of like prevalent and feel like they could take place in any year. Yeah, so you're getting very specific with time, but also playing with something that feels timeless kind of simultaneously. So I mean the grown up table side note is I know there's also a kids' table painting, but that's also a really interesting kind of division. But anyway, it's just the dinner table itself is this classic. Breaking of bread that happens across cultures happens everywhere, virtually every time, but then you have these specific markers that give us exactly the place and time. Still know what Barney is, or is it just cocoa melon and paw patrol or what like? Well, I Sydney can tell you I had to ask her, Do you know who Crackhead Barney is? Crackhead Barney? It's cracking me up that nobody knows who she is. She's she is on social media and is kind of a performance artist who but I saw her on the street and introduced myself and got a picture with her when I was in ⁓ I was on the Lower East Side last week and I sent Sydney a text and I'm like, do you know who Crackhead Barney is? And she had no idea. But it's been making me think about Barney. I think they tried to reboot it or something recently. ⁓ and I watched a few episodes with my kids when they were really little because I was like, maybe this was good and it it wasn't. It was that sounded like was it still like a guy in a purple dinosaur suit? Like Yeah, I'm I only having a vague memory of the reboot. I feel like they tried to do something with it. I don't really remember. But I watched the old ones with my kids, like 90s episodes and what's so weird about that era of TV, I don't know if they still do this, but it's so clearly just like a soundstage. You know, there's so there's something almost like eerie about it because you can kind of hear like an echo, even though they're supposed to be outside and like yeah. It's innately artificial. Yes, yeah, yeah. It feels really disturbing for that reason. ⁓ the other thing I want to just ask ⁓ is if you've seen that documentary about The comic book artists who are basically calling bullshit on Liechtenstein. Yeah, how they would talk about how it's like he gets p paid millions for essentially just copying like their works and stuff. And I think there's I think there's validity to it. Cause c I mean, like when it comes to comics, I feel like artists are ripped off so much in the comic industry. Yeah. I had really complicated feelings because I agree with you that like They made really good points and the documentary was pretty effective. And I still I love Liechtenstein, but what it is, Sydney, if you haven't seen it, is like they'll show the panels of the comic that he was referencing and think it's some of the artists who actually made the work that are still around and they're just like, This is bullshit. I got paid like fifty cents to make this thing. Damn, that's crazy. And it's a straight one to one. Pretty much. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He wouldn't really alter. But I I also I love appropriation art. ⁓ when you were talking about cowboys before, I was thinking about Richard Prince and Yeah, I mean I was making those cowboy paintings because ⁓ my first museum show was at the Museum of the Southwest in Midland, Texas. And I I remember I was ⁓ talking to the director at the time and he was telling me about their permanent collection and stuff and how it was a bunch of, you know, Remingtons and stuff like that. And I'm like, hmm, what would If I painted a Remington, what would that look like? And so that's That's awesome. Yeah. I mean, I feel like being such a dumbass and northeasterner when I moved to Texas, I like had this slow realization that I'm like, the sun is very bright. There's a reason you need a hat like this and ⁓ the The grass is very tall and there are snakes. There's a reason you need boots like this. And like I think I had always, and I guess to some degree it is, but I had always processed that kind of like iconography as purely aesthetic. Cause you'll see, actually, I saw when I was in New York ⁓ somebody wearing a cowboy hat and just doing it for the style, but I think maybe it connects again to the like lowbrow, highbrow thing again, where it's like some of that stuff is just practical. ⁓ but obviously there's history attached to all of it. Do you want to ⁓ tell us like any shows you're having to promote or like your Instagram? Plug your Instagram. Yeah. My Instagram is my first name, X, and my last name. I made that back when I was straight edge and 19 and thought I was gonna be straight edge forever. And yeah, I mean, I have a couple shows coming up. I'm gonna be doing a show at Bunker projects in Pittsburgh. That's gonna open in the first week of August, August seventh. And I'm gonna be part of a show at Brea Gallery in California. I'm gonna also have a show at the University of Texas in the Rio Granley in November. ⁓ awesome. U T R G V. Mm-hmm. ⁓ that's so cool. That's my hometown. word. Yeah. ⁓ so that's so awesome. Okay, cool. Yeah, I mean if you're coming through in November, like let me know. No, yeah. I was gonna say we should go. Thank you so much. Yes. Thank you for having me. Okay, awesome. This was great. Yeah. I really appreciate you taking the time. No, yeah. Thanks for taking the time to talk to me and virtually be here in my studio. Yeah. It was so great. All right. Bye guys. See you later. Thank you again.