Latest / Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield / The Rivals Awards Show: Best, Worst & Most WTF Moments of 2025

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The Rivals Awards Show: Best, Worst & Most WTF Moments of 2025 · Rugby Rivals - Sir John Kirwan & Victor Matfield

0:00
It looked like you were having a good time, it looked like the more you drank, the more you became the Greg Cali from WWE.
0:07
The atmosphere before the game was unbelievable and there for almost 60 minutes there was no rugby, it was just going up to GMO, is this a red, is this a yellow?
0:17
World rugby is not fan centric and they don't care about the fan.
0:21
Who was your player of the year in 2025?
0:24
You've lived in the scrum like this so you wouldn't be able to talk about the backs because your head was up, someone's asked for the most of your career.
0:30
Why do you have to dance with each other and do all that?
0:33
Don't talk to us about dancing JK, you like to dance before the game, we all play.
0:37
Yeah, man, I'm talking about it.
0:38
Can you stick out your tongues and anything to it?
0:40
Gentlemen, let's just stay positive. What was your moment of the year?
0:46
Welcome to rugby rivals, the last show of the season and Victor have you stopped harassing Trimby in Ireland?
0:57
Trimby just disappeared, I was waiting for him, waiting on the beach, Trimby was just gone after that game, I think he probably got a red card to go back home as well, back to Northern Ireland.
1:09
Yeah, no, I was in the water, I just completely forgot to get a recording of it, but yeah, you just need to trust me that I went for a swim in Sunday morning, so it's all good.
1:19
You'd be in mourning, wouldn't you? Trimby, you'd be in mourning, mate.
1:22
Yeah, geez, it was existential in terms of the beat and we got up from, so yeah, I decided to just keep my head dived and not make myself known.
1:33
It looked like you were having a good time, Victor, it looked like the more you drank, the more you became the Greek Cali from WWE.
1:42
Okay, going there, but I said, we went up to the, I think did they call it the black lake, black lake where they say over water comes from for the Guinness.
1:54
And we were on the top there and the wind was blowing and I slept and I was full of mud, the whole pile of me, so I had to walk like that for the whole day.
2:03
The only thing I've left now is spring rocket, I wasn't in spring rocket, so I'm in spring rocket for the next of the week.
2:09
Did you actually manage to go to the game?
2:11
So again?
2:13
Did you manage to go to the game, Victor?
2:15
I was at the game, didn't you see I watered the player over there?
2:19
You had a quick chat before the game on the pitch, but I was there, yes.
2:23
I was going to say what a, that was a neat honor, right, that you could do that.
2:27
Yeah, I thought when they said, let's do it in the change room, I'm said, let's contribute on the field that everyone sees it.
2:34
Yeah, I think it was a special moment just the way the other players reacted.
2:40
It was nice to get back into spring or change room as well as especially a change room like this.
2:45
Looks like the boys are really close and looks like they can have a lot of fun as well in there.
2:51
Yeah, I think they did the same with Fabian because he got emerging player of the year and they did in the change room, same reaction.
3:00
So I'm pleased those awards mean something, you know, it's good.
3:04
No, it's great.
3:05
Don't think any Irishman got any awards, Trimby.
3:08
No, it wasn't a weekend to be hunting any Irish awards.
3:12
And yeah, I would have liked to see Malcolm Marks get marching into the center of the pitch and create a podium and just have fireworks and celebration.
3:21
It's just to see how that would have gone down to the Irish crowd.
3:25
I see, I see they've started to sort of attack the coach.
3:30
They've gone after Razzie, haven't they?
3:32
No, not the South African coach, but he's God.
3:35
I mean, the Irish, oh, they're gone after a fire.
3:37
No, I think it's probably in the grassy.
3:39
Yeah, Farrell in the press conference was a little bit back a little bit.
3:43
One of the journalists said, or said it was a bit of a shambles up front.
3:49
And yeah, farrell kind of bit back at him and and farrell was leaning towards the character that I was showed at the end.
3:56
And then, you know, there's been a few articles written since and, you know, surely Irish will be his past.
4:01
The point where you were, you know, valiant losers or, you know, competitive for long period, did yourselves provide you know, that sort of tone.
4:09
But farrell was going there and it's not nothing.
4:12
But shambles was probably a little bit disrespectful from the journalists.
4:17
I don't know who it was, but farrell bit back strongly.
4:20
And this is probably a question for you, Victor.
4:23
Like, are we out of touch because, you know, last week you said,
4:28
and I totally agree with you, right?
4:30
So don't get this question wrong.
4:32
But why aren't the journalists asking the same questions that we are asking about the red and yellow cards, right?
4:39
Because how can you have so many incidents in one game and it not be a shambles?
4:45
I don't care how much you train with one less, two less.
4:48
But the last couple of weeks we've had Argentina down to 11, you guys were down.
4:53
Like, is it just us?
4:56
Why aren't the journalists also saying this is unacceptable?
4:59
Or do they just think it's okay? What's happening?
5:02
There's no idea, but I mean, it was supposed to be a great night for South African rugby.
5:07
I still think, well, I know we dominated Ireland.
5:11
I don't think we'll be able to dominate them like that.
5:13
And they were under pressure.
5:15
And that's why they were making certain mistakes.
5:18
But we need to ever look at the rules.
5:20
We need to have 50 on 15 hours.
5:22
Really, I was upset after that game because we flew all the way there.
5:27
The vibe was unbelievable.
5:29
The atmosphere before the game was unbelievable.
5:32
And there for almost 60 minutes, it was no record.
5:35
It was just going up to TMO, going up to, is this a red, is this a yellow?
5:41
Yeah.
5:42
That's what we want to see the game like.
5:45
We want to see 50 on 15 playing, going at each other and having a proper taste match.
5:51
So, yeah, someone will need to ask questions.
5:55
I know Eddie Jones came out a little bit.
5:58
Rossi, definitely the previous work.
6:00
Hopefully Farrell will come out, but we need to have a look at this.
6:03
Well, I think, I think also the players need to come out, right?
6:07
Because the two people responsible are Brett Robinson, who is the chairman of World Rugby,
6:13
who came in 12 months ago and said, I'm going to change stuff.
6:16
I'm going to move quickly.
6:17
I'm going to do this.
6:18
And we haven't even heard from him.
6:21
He's got to tell us what's going on.
6:23
They've just disappeared.
6:24
They've even fronted up at all.
6:25
And it really annoyed me.
6:26
So, I think the coaches have to stand up collectively, but also the players.
6:31
If the players aren't happy with this, then they've got to stand up as well.
6:34
And they've got to start.
6:35
You know, not the coach or player is allowed to say anything about refereeing.
6:41
Then they get suspended for six months.
6:44
So, they're not in a place where they can stand up.
6:47
They're not in a place where they can stand up.
6:49
So, there needs to be a forum or something where they get together.
6:53
Let's talk about it.
6:54
Let's sort this out.
6:55
Yeah.
6:56
And I don't, I say they shouldn't do it public, but I reckon, you know, maybe Edie,
7:02
our old mate, can actually ring five or six of the other coaches and say,
7:06
let's go and do something.
7:08
And, you know, Rob Nicolou's head of the players association in New Zealand
7:12
should ring three or four players and then take their vote.
7:16
It should be behind closed door.
7:18
We can say it publicly, but enough's enough.
7:21
It's ruining our game.
7:22
And we talk about it every week and it must get boring for our listeners
7:25
because we talk about it every week.
7:27
And I'm not going to go into the details of whether it was a red card or not,
7:30
because we all know.
7:31
But, like, even, you know, even the Welsh game,
7:34
just the decision making around a try was a joke.
7:37
Like, man, you watch it and go, yeah, no try.
7:41
Move on.
7:42
And yet, 15 minutes later, we're still talking about it.
7:46
The only good thing is the Welsh could get a few more pizza.
7:49
Yeah.
7:50
Jacob, I think the true test is how important is the audience here?
7:54
How important is the fan, the crowd?
7:56
Because they don't want to come to, you know,
7:58
Victor spent a billion dollars to come to Ireland and saw 15 on 12.
8:03
No one wants to see that.
8:05
So I can't, you can't tell me that the cards in the game
8:08
are good for the fans of the game.
8:10
You know, you guys are all explainers.
8:12
I'll talk on them as a fan.
8:15
Because we talk about it every week.
8:17
It covers all of Twitter every week.
8:19
Even during a game, people are arguing.
8:21
That should be a card.
8:22
That's one of the main talking points of a game.
8:25
We care that much about cards now.
8:27
Something's wrong in our game.
8:30
Well, I'll answer this for you.
8:32
World rugby is not fan centric.
8:35
They are a political organisation.
8:38
And they actually do not move fast enough.
8:41
And they don't care about the fan.
8:43
They say that.
8:44
It's the greatest number of rugby constituents.
8:48
There are more fans than there are players than there are officials.
8:52
It's the most important group to any business as your customer.
8:56
And they're not looking after the customer.
8:59
Yeah, the product is about, yeah, as you say, record to boat.
9:02
The people come and pay in money to be there.
9:05
And that's how we grow our game.
9:06
The increase, you know, the appeal of the game.
9:09
We make it more exciting.
9:10
We can make their more jeopardy.
9:11
We make them more fun.
9:12
More all this sort of stuff.
9:13
It needs to be a showcase.
9:14
We're not doing that at the minute.
9:16
And it's yes, the yellow card, the yellow red cards.
9:19
But the stop start nature of just everything.
9:21
Slow stagger.
9:22
Everything's just sluggish.
9:23
We're sluggish.
9:24
And JKI agree completely.
9:25
I think world rugby is the problem here because they're
9:29
slowly making decisions.
9:30
You look at any other sport in the world.
9:32
MLB made a number of changes a few years back.
9:35
And the game transformed.
9:36
It completely transformed.
9:37
And would you believe it?
9:38
The numbers went up.
9:39
More people were paying more money to go and see these games
9:41
and have a good time.
9:42
And the product.
9:43
That's what it like.
9:44
Let's get over ourselves.
9:45
Problem is, if we speak to too many players and coaches.
9:47
They're immersed in rugby and the strategy on the field
9:50
and the scrum and all this.
9:51
There may be two.
9:52
Two thought full about that.
9:53
I think it's the spectators.
9:54
I agree.
9:55
Rick, I think it's.
9:56
It's those guys.
9:57
They're the ones that are going to make the showcase.
9:59
Make it exciting.
10:00
Like JKI.
10:01
That's two.
10:02
Aaron Games in November.
10:03
That had exactly the same process.
10:04
They're run up to it.
10:05
I brought my young fellow down.
10:06
And I'm determined.
10:07
Determined to make him a rugby fan.
10:09
He's run right in a spring box top.
10:11
There's an old black stop on the way coming from you, J.K.
10:14
I'm determined to make this kid a rugby fan.
10:16
And I bring him down.
10:17
I'm like, this is so exciting.
10:18
Springboks are in time.
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We walked to the game.
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He's getting excited to talk to everybody else.
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We arrive at the game.
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We've got my meal.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
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I'm going to go.
12:16
I spoke to some, now you've lived in the scrum, Victor, so you wouldn't be able to talk
12:20
about the backs because your head was up, someone's asked for the most of your career,
12:24
right?
12:25
So, why can't you set up a bit quicker and just do you think you could set up, because
12:29
I've asked scrum experts and they say you should be able to set up and set the scrum.
12:34
I'm not saying what happens afterwards in 30 seconds, so why can't you?
12:39
So, I mean, they did speed that up, even the line-on, I think, this whole, not all that
12:45
they do outside the line-on, I think it's unnecessary, but I mean, I don't think, I think
12:50
South Africa is one of the quickest to get set, they're there, they're waiting and they
12:54
want to scrum.
12:55
So, I think that's long about that.
12:58
And I still agree with you, Denise.
13:00
What I don't agree, what I don't agree, and that's a problem again, another thing we
13:04
need to sort out.
13:05
If I play it against, let's say whoever, nice, still every line-out ball, now can you
13:10
give them a yellow card, same with the scrum?
13:13
If one scrum is so dominant, the other guys aren't cheating, they just can't stand up
13:17
to it.
13:18
Why do they need to get a yellow card?
13:19
They try, they're giving their best.
13:21
Now we're sending someone off because they're not strong enough.
13:24
I don't understand that.
13:25
I don't understand that either.
13:27
I don't understand that.
13:28
I don't think it should be a penalty.
13:29
The scrum should be a mechanism to restart the game, is there any way, is it ever possible
13:34
for someone to concede a scrum, to lose at the scrum and not concede it penalty?
13:39
Never, ever happens, never happens.
13:41
Answer me this, answer me this, why don't they just play on a little longer, right?
13:48
Because the dominant scrum, for me, that means you've got eight forwards on the scrum and
13:54
the loose forwards can't get off, it makes for a more exciting game.
13:58
So you either penalize or you let them play or you say play on, right?
14:02
What's happening is a dominant scrum forward, like sometimes the South Africans or most
14:09
of the time they might be going for a penalty, I get that.
14:11
But other times the dominant scrums, dominant they start turning, it should just be play on
14:15
instead of resetting.
14:17
What would happen if South Africans stopped getting penalties off scrums?
14:21
If they use the scrum just to actually pass the ball in their Sasha Feynberg and
14:26
Gomez Uli's hands to get the backline going, I mean, all of the far probs in South Africa,
14:32
but they all lose weight and start getting more mobility and handling skills, like what
14:37
would happen?
14:38
Because, you know, that's the scrum is just to win the ball back, not to win a penalty anymore.
14:42
It would turn to South Africa, Robbie has his head, wouldn't it not?
14:46
No, it would, but I mean, that's the thing that they adjusted to.
14:50
I mean, in our times, we didn't have a scrum like this and yes, we did have a strong
14:54
and you wanted the right shoulder, remember to go play right, get away from the loose
14:58
foot.
14:59
Now it's changed and I actually, when I went to Northampton, that was the first time.
15:03
We didn't have a play from the scrum.
15:06
Every scrum was to get a penalty or you lose a penalty and that's where South Africa,
15:10
they go for the scrum, they get the penalty and then they've got a free go with their backs
15:14
as well and then they come back.
15:16
But I'm with you, I mean, in the old days as well, there was times where you could scrum
15:21
for 10, 15 metres and the guys were hanging and you were going, now it's just go penalty
15:26
and then you play away.
15:27
So that's probably something you need to look at.
15:30
What I reckon you could do is say, right, you've got a, and this is another thing about
15:35
advantage.
15:36
Once again, at the beginning of the season and this happens every season, the referee's
15:40
control something, right?
15:42
So we need to take some control off the referees and especially off the TMO.
15:47
So the first things they should do is scrum needs to be set in 30 seconds, but let's have
15:51
like they do with basketball, either a 30 second countdown or some noise in the stand.
15:58
And right, your first option from a dominant scrum should be to run it, but you can go back
16:02
to the penalty, but you've only got one or two rucks to do it.
16:06
So I think advantage should be three rucks, right?
16:09
And then it's over or four rucks, right?
16:12
So you imagine if you had a scrum, you get a free shot at the backs because the forwards
16:17
are going backwards, but you can come back to the penalty.
16:20
At least we'll see some proactive, you know, some, some proactive play, you know, even
16:24
the South Africans who love a scrum and scrum and love a penalty would at least have a
16:29
crack in the backs because then I've got two or three rucks to take their advantage.
16:34
So things like that that just promote more, more excitement and more attacking.
16:39
I think it's fair to say we can summarize like this.
16:41
Let's get rid of all the cards and the only cards are for evil behavior of intent.
16:47
At least, and mainly if you're armed, you know, and so and then move on from that scrums
16:54
are a very important part of the game.
16:56
You can still have a very dominant scrum, but you're not going to penalize and give cards
17:01
out for people that just aren't very good at scrumaging, you know, totally going to get
17:05
they're going to get penalized by being dominated totally.
17:09
And so just two basic characters, you don't read, you don't get rid of the cards.
17:13
You put people on report, right?
17:16
They put people on report and they go to the judiciary on a Monday night.
17:20
And the other thing I'd really like to do is account down clock for scrums and line outs
17:24
must be done in 30 seconds.
17:26
It makes sense, but that's just so you can get the ball quicker on the wing.
17:32
No, no, this is because I think the problem is this is a health and safety issue.
17:36
I think we're an anaerobic game and not an aerobic game.
17:40
We need more time with people running, which I believe will then get the players to lose
17:44
weight, right?
17:46
Because that it's more of an aerobic game.
17:48
So we need to spin the game up from 30 to 34 minutes to 55 minutes, 60 minutes of play
17:53
over 80 minutes.
17:55
And that's OK.
17:56
OK.
17:57
You won't believe it.
17:58
We actually did it two or three years ago and the curry cup in South Africa, Rasi changed
18:01
it.
18:02
In the curry cup, our own competition, we changed it only 30 seconds and then the ball
18:06
must be in.
18:07
I think it took up the ball in play by about two or three minutes in a game.
18:11
So we did use it in curry cup because we want more ball in play.
18:16
Even South Africa ones it, although you don't believe it, but we do.
18:20
The other can beat you by more points, but Victor, I do believe you, I do believe you
18:25
are.
18:26
You really push it hard and it worked.
18:27
So that's what we want to see.
18:28
We want to see ball in play, teams go at each other, smash each other.
18:32
That's what you want to see.
18:34
The final summary on this is let's have a game that the fans fall in love with.
18:41
Let's have a game that moves fast, that the fans can engage with and put their phones
18:47
down and get excited by.
18:49
That's what we said.
18:50
Oh, it's difficult.
18:51
Yeah.
18:52
Fast and physical.
18:53
So both parts.
18:54
So you're happy, Victor.
18:55
You're happy, J.K.
18:56
and Trimble, you get to run with the ball.
18:58
All right.
18:59
Now, before we, now we've sort of world rugby out, that was easy.
19:03
Well, that's not right.
19:04
Last time it'd stand up, Brent Robinson and Yolge and do something.
19:09
Just being there like a figurehead.
19:11
Right.
19:12
Good.
19:13
What do you think of the England Argentina?
19:14
There's a bit of controversy.
19:16
A late hit from Curry and a bit of a scuffle in the tunnel.
19:21
Well, the thing that obviously, well, no, I do care.
19:27
It's just the inconsistency.
19:29
I thought it was, was it late?
19:30
Was it a yellow card?
19:31
Depends on the referee.
19:33
The scuffle in the change room.
19:35
What was it?
19:37
Now, swinging of handbags, just a bit of emotion, who cares?
19:40
Yeah, you know my opinion.
19:42
No, yellow card, even.
19:43
Give the penalty play on.
19:46
It's a little late.
19:47
It wasn't even that late.
19:48
Really, was it?
19:49
Yeah.
19:50
It was not late.
19:51
It was just, unfortunately, hurting the injured.
19:53
Yeah.
19:54
That was just a bit unfortunate.
19:55
That didn't look that late, really.
19:57
No, almost to be honest.
19:58
It was in the edge, I'd say, but.
20:00
So not, not an issue.
20:02
So it needs to move on.
20:03
Right.
20:04
I'm going to ask you for the, I was going to call these awards, the Susie Awards, you know,
20:08
to celebrate that great waitress of South Africa, just to celebrate the bond between the two countries.
20:14
So the first Susie is the.
20:17
Do you know who Susie is?
20:18
No, what's this explain?
20:19
I don't know who Susie is.
20:21
Is this for my time, Lars?
20:23
Yeah.
20:24
I don't know.
20:25
Five, 95, the excuse for the all blacks.
20:28
So the players that in the, and the officials and the media liaison officer that got sick,
20:33
just before the final, the word was that the waitress, her name was Susie, that she sort
20:40
of put the food together.
20:41
So these are the Susie Awards to celebrate that special bond.
20:45
I'm trying to be able to all the team, all the team got sick met before the World Cup final.
20:50
And the media liaison officer.
20:52
And recorded it with your liaison.
20:54
They got a running stomach because there was chest to go to our spot.
20:59
Right.
21:00
It was your, when we know you all is effective, but who was your player of the year in 2025?
21:08
Marks.
21:11
I mean, yeah, it was, it was, it was very clear.
21:14
He's been right at the center of everything that South Africa have been completely dominant.
21:20
Physicality, potionability, just physically incredible and leading the way for South Africa.
21:27
Yeah, it's Mark and Marks.
21:30
Yeah, I probably couldn't go past that either.
21:32
I don't like to agree with, with, with these two gentlemen often, but I just think he's been
21:39
really dominant all year.
21:41
I mean, I, I, I think the two best hookers have been Cody Taylor at the moment, you know?
21:47
So I haven't done she in, if we're going to pick silver medals here.
21:52
We never do silver medals, my seconds.
21:55
No, we, um, I just want to, I think close second and you got injured and maybe you won't like it.
22:01
But I think it's often shit, oxygen.
22:03
She was very close to Malcolm before he got injured.
22:06
Also had a fantastic year.
22:08
The scrum was solid, but also he's coaching ability.
22:11
Uh, tackles he made around the ground.
22:14
And we've never had a front row winning the RBA awards.
22:19
I think he was close second.
22:21
I'm actually boycott and, um, uh, even naming South African props.
22:25
Uh, so I know we've named it like a 15, uh, I'm in one and three.
22:29
I've just put insert random South Africa fat person.
22:33
So we, we also knew a few of you need some match in the front row there.
22:39
Well, what, what I'm worried about moving forward is that we all agree.
22:44
Malcolm marks, but Trimby, you went for an Irishman, JK, you went for an all black and picked a you went for another South African is your second pick.
22:50
So that's a good start.
22:52
Right.
22:53
Who in 2025 was a team going in reverse?
22:57
Ireland.
22:58
Ireland went from, Ireland went from second in the world to fourth.
23:02
Uh, I'm with Jacob on this one.
23:04
Sorry, Trimby.
23:05
Um, I don't know.
23:06
I think you guys need to look at something.
23:09
If the last game in your season is South Africa,
23:12
everybody's going to be in reverse apart from South Africa.
23:15
So no, it's sorry, Trimby.
23:17
It was one old this year between South African New Zealand.
23:20
Okay.
23:21
If you, if that Wellington game had been the last game of the season, New Zealand would have been in reverse.
23:26
It's one old.
23:27
It was one old.
23:29
Like that.
23:30
The number of tastes.
23:31
This is North versus South.
23:32
This is us versus you guys.
23:34
So you think it's, uh, like it's kind of a knack and knack between you in the spring box.
23:38
Yeah.
23:39
That's one old this year.
23:40
That's one old.
23:41
Like that's the fact.
23:43
The other factors that Ireland started and it's one out of five in the last five test matches.
23:49
Let's, we're just talking about the season.
23:51
We're talking about the season.
23:52
Why did you come off?
23:53
Let's just talk about the last game then.
23:55
Yeah, that's fair.
23:56
You guys won the last game in that second half.
23:58
I'm not.
23:59
But we're the only team that beat you this year.
24:02
So like, but I.
24:04
Yeah.
24:05
Ireland lost.
24:06
Ireland lost to us.
24:08
Right.
24:09
And lost to South Africa.
24:10
So for the North versus South, I think England have proved.
24:13
I think England have got better.
24:15
Wales don't even talk about.
24:17
I think Scotland has remained where it is.
24:19
And the only team that's gone backwards or maybe stayed stationary is Ireland.
24:24
Stationery, I think is, uh, is a fine place for us to, an acceptable place for us to land.
24:30
I have Scotland here only because, um, at every, at the start of every, um, championship
24:37
or, or autumn nations, it kind of feels like there's a little bit of talk come from Scotland.
24:42
And then ultimately, um, the Argentina.
24:46
But it's talking, uh, maybe Mike, you feel a bit better.
24:49
If we talk about civil medals, I mean, that was disastrous Northern tour for Australia.
24:53
So that would probably.
24:55
To be seen.
24:57
That's a shame.
24:58
It's a real.
24:59
It's a real shame for Australia because just what Joe Schmidt did during the Lancaster.
25:04
And then subsequently just after that big, uh, big win in South Africa.
25:08
It's a real shame.
25:09
But it's probably just a reflection of how tired they are picked up a few injuries.
25:13
I'd say Australia will be able to get back up there.
25:15
Obviously, the losing show now in less cases coming in there.
25:18
But yeah, maybe, maybe they're contender for that as well.
25:21
I mean, can we use the tightness card nowadays?
25:24
I mean, I know that the French, you know, when they come down to New Zealand and in July,
25:29
they don't respect and say, I'll play as a tie.
25:31
So they send their second team and, you know, the Northern hemisphere when they come to New Zealand.
25:36
It's the end of season.
25:37
I mean, is it a real thing or not?
25:39
Can the Australians use that as an excuse or not?
25:42
Also, they'll forget in New Zealand and use it as an excuse.
25:45
So an Argentina certainly didn't.
25:48
So maybe not.
25:50
All right, the next one.
25:52
So tell me, who is your team of the year and why?
25:57
I know yours, Victor.
26:00
My team of the year is Argentina.
26:03
Because I just think that they have an incredible attacking game.
26:10
They've beaten, you know, they've beaten everybody.
26:15
And I just think they're incredible rugby team on the resources that they have.
26:21
You know, they're out of the super rugby that are now their players are playing in France.
26:24
I just think they continue to make the top four in world rugby.
26:28
They must be doing some amazing stuff over there to keep producing great players.
26:32
I think their back attack is some of the best in the world.
26:35
The only thing about Argentina is if this is recency by SJK because they've kind of finished strong.
26:43
But just remember how you know, we were talking about the last two rounds of rugby championship.
26:47
They went back to back and they got hammered dismantled two weeks in order to spring box.
26:52
If they played spring box more recently, that would be in our radar.
26:55
Again, I'm just reeling from that's what Ireland have to cope with and how they're perceived.
27:00
But yeah, anyway, it's it's brilliant to see Argentina.
27:03
And you can see the benefit of having that top tier competition regularly and responding to it.
27:08
So yeah, Argentina is fair enough.
27:11
Yeah, so I just think you know who I'm going to speak, but I was really surprised Saturday with that performance on the box.
27:19
I really thought it was going to be tough against Ireland.
27:22
And I think this bot team, what they've went through, red guard against France, still beat them.
27:28
Went to Eden Park didn't get the victory next week.
27:31
They react it and smash the all blacks.
27:34
Then the big win over Argentina.
27:37
Yeah, the spring box team and what Russia is doing.
27:40
I mean, Saturday.
27:41
So normally, Russia comes up in the training gear.
27:44
Everything Saturday walks out number one's on.
27:47
I heard hour and a half before the game.
27:49
It called all the plays.
27:50
You're on their cases about not being ready for the game.
27:53
You just get something right here.
27:56
We've never had a spring box team like this.
27:58
I mean, that's been so dominant.
28:00
So yeah, I think also Africans just love being supporters at the moment.
28:06
Victor, I'd like to agree with you.
28:08
But that's what you expect if you're world champions, mate.
28:11
And then you keep telling us your world champion.
28:13
So the reason.
28:14
The result of the champion is because that you guys are world champions.
28:18
That's what you expect.
28:19
I mean, you should be disappointed you lost one game.
28:22
Now, what do we were talking about our everything is getting closer.
28:25
When the top teams play each other, anything can happen.
28:28
And I think this last four or five games.
28:30
So that's just put a big space between them and the second team in the world.
28:39
No, you can't say that.
28:41
It's one all with the second team in the world.
28:43
You know against England.
28:44
Come on.
28:45
Just a week ago.
28:46
Remember that you lost against England just a week ago.
28:49
The conversation of who is the.
28:53
The gap between the first and the second team in the world has nothing to do with you.
28:57
It's like you're a DJ K.
29:00
Yes, not second.
29:02
All right.
29:03
Next question.
29:04
Can I be right to the end?
29:06
Hey.
29:07
Sorry.
29:10
Sorry, he's gone.
29:12
Spring books are gone.
29:13
So I brother, because you just.
29:15
Flipping and popping around each way.
29:17
We're not our problem.
29:18
The spring box are not our problem.
29:19
No one can compete with them.
29:20
We're all we're all planned for second best.
29:22
And at the minute, old blacks aren't leading the way for a second best.
29:27
It's won all this year, guys.
29:29
Remember that, it's won all.
29:30
Spring box versus old blacks is won all.
29:32
OK, let it go, J. OK.
29:35
My team of the year is Belgium.
29:39
Belgium had an incredible World Cup qualifying campaign and drew with Samoa in the final game,
29:45
just about got through.
29:46
I didn't even know they played rugby in Belgium.
29:49
But they have been one of the most incredible stories in World Rugby this year and the growth
29:55
of the game.
29:56
There must be someone doing something magic there to draw with Samoa and the beat,
30:01
beat other teams that, you know, that are ranked above them as a tremendous performance.
30:06
But let's just keep moving.
30:09
Coach of the year, Victor.
30:15
I'll have to provincial coach of the year.
30:18
I'll say you unfuncrown with both.
30:20
He's done fantastically well and then international coach of the year.
30:26
Yeah, Russia is just unbelievable at the moment.
30:29
He's doing things different, bringing some excitement as well.
30:33
When he's announcing the team, he's playing centers at Flankers.
30:38
So I think he's great for the game and he brings a lot of excitement to the game as well.
30:43
Yeah, I think I'll back that up.
30:45
I think Russi, I think he's leading at the moment, like the whole world's now doing what he's
30:51
doing with the bench, you know, what they call it.
30:56
The Palm Squad now, set of the Palm Squad when the English use it.
31:00
I just think that Russi's leading in two or three different areas and other people are starting
31:06
to follow and I'm a little bit jealous of that because I think that that's when New Zealand
31:11
was for a long, long time.
31:13
And so Russi, you know, even what he's done with selection, you know, if you're a traditionalist
31:18
like I was, even 18 months ago, changing a winning side just as it wasn't around when
31:25
we played.
31:26
It wasn't Victor.
31:27
You won your time, whereas he is actually completely changed.
31:32
To the fact where we go as all blacks, wow, you know, we didn't play all these guys and
31:36
we completely changed the team at the end of the, at the end of the thing, you know,
31:40
at the end of the tour to play Wales, should we be doing more like Russi?
31:44
This is us old guys talking, you know, so yeah, I think Russi is leading.
31:49
I think he's, you know, I think he's, he's just the guy that everyone's following.
31:54
So that's hard because you've got to get a bovaman and try and, you know, be innovative,
31:59
innovative, which is really hard.
32:01
He's the, Russi's the figurehead and he's the one does the brass conferences and gets
32:05
all the attention.
32:06
And yes, there's he's, he's obviously an incredible leader, very innovative and thoughtful,
32:10
I wonder how much of an impact the guys behind the scenes are having, like Sir Felix Jones,
32:15
Jerry Flannery, Tony Bryan, obviously, you can see his impact.
32:17
And Felix Jones in particular, there's a bit of madness, I think, in some of these,
32:23
I forgot, like, Rasey, the way he hears the way he chat, like he's different.
32:26
And I love that.
32:27
I love the fact that he's kind of created a template and say, this is, I'm going to do it differently
32:31
because I see the game differently, and I'm happy to kind of roll the dice with that
32:35
and take on whatever risk comes with that.
32:37
And we've always find that with Rasey just doing different things, even when it comes to,
32:40
you know, the traffic lights on the stadium roof with the cheetahs, this sort of stuff.
32:45
But Felix Jones and I probably can write in the chase of the son documentary, a good friend of mine.
32:49
There's a madness with him as well and a brilliant madness.
32:52
You know, there's a brilliance there with him, obviously, completely dedicated,
32:56
knows the game, intimately, workaholic, absolutely loves it.
32:59
But there's a character and a personality there that obviously has a lot of charisma
33:05
and taps into the personalities around them.
33:08
And I'd love to know what happens behind the scenes because Jacques Neen and Mark and I
33:14
last week and kind of advertised himself as coming back into the spring box environment.
33:20
So it's competitive.
33:21
People want to be in there.
33:22
It's obviously a special place to be because of the people involved.
33:25
And I'd love to know more about how Felix is getting on, how he's perceived.
33:29
And what are they saying about him and to the Africa?
33:32
Trimby, so I can tell you, there's two guys, and now maybe three, that Russi,
33:38
I've been in that change room for a week where I would just set there,
33:42
went to all the trainings, all the Vio sessions, all the planning sessions.
33:47
And there's two guys that Russi really respect.
33:51
And we listened to first as Jacques Neenau, but the two of them are very close.
33:55
And then Felix, I know he writes Felix so.
33:59
I remember before the previous World Cup, they said, listen, Russi, these two guys are leaving.
34:05
Felix is going to England, Jacques is coming to Ireland.
34:09
And we see it there and then we can tell you now, next World Cup, those two guys will
34:15
be back inside Africa, getting all the information from England and Ireland and they'll be back
34:21
in the spring box team with Russi.
34:23
And it's going to happen.
34:24
I'm telling you, we call it, I can't not see Jacques coming back if he wants to get,
34:30
Russi will take him back immediately.
34:33
And Russi loves him and that madness that you're talking about, that's, remember,
34:38
Russi has just racked, he eats, sleeps, wake up, it's racked, he's got new ideas.
34:42
He looks different than the game and I think he enjoys Felix being pretty much the same.
34:48
And it's all about work right away.
34:49
Jacques is probably more straight and that's why he's on the defensive side.
34:52
But these two guys, they love thinking out of the box, trying new things and work.
34:57
And I think Tony Brown also came in and I spoke with Tony after the game and he says,
35:02
he's just loving it.
35:04
He loves the environment and how they can challenge each other.
35:08
So Russi likes it, Russi likes guys that can challenge him,
35:12
technically on the game as well and trying new things.
35:17
Right, the next one, who is from what you've seen this year,
35:20
who's the future superstar of rugby and what you've seen this year?
35:27
Sasha, Henry Pollock for me.
35:32
On and off the field, what does that drink?
35:35
I know, I know it's a, it's a dread, but there's no truth to it.
35:40
On and off the field because he's just, because he's different.
35:42
He's challenging.
35:43
I recall what was that a problem?
35:46
I don't think it should be, I don't think it should be,
35:48
but I get why record of sight because they all go,
35:53
well, because he's English, actually, probably more than that.
35:58
But yeah, he's different.
35:59
He challenged it like a four-tonal by the gear moving on and the gear changing
36:02
that we need.
36:03
People like out to challenge our perceptions.
36:05
Or us old, tired, conservative rugby guys,
36:09
we need that challenge by new, innovative kind of people who change the perception
36:15
like Henry Pollock.
36:17
Victor?
36:19
Yeah, I'm probably the same two guys.
36:23
And I'm trying to think outside the box now about other guys around the world,
36:27
someone new coming through and they, they're not really much more than that.
36:33
I'm thinking about France, but there is no new youngster that excites me.
36:39
There's probably someone with older guys, I can't wait to see the pong back for them.
36:44
Again, the player, I think, Goddrak, he needs such a big character.
36:50
It will be good to have him back on the box.
36:54
Yeah, I think for this year, such as probably the guy that excites everyone.
36:59
Think from a New Zealand put a view, I think, Lister Farr and Nukus come back.
37:04
And he's what Eddie Jones would call a hybrid.
37:06
You know, plays wing, plays both wings, plays center, can play 12, he can play six.
37:14
Believe it or not, or seven in the loose forwards at a pinch.
37:17
So I think he's had a real good reentry after being in France for a couple of years.
37:24
And I think the positive thing from the all blacks is after that last game, our, our backs are looking pretty strong.
37:31
We seem to have two in every position, you know.
37:33
So take a, you know, you guys played well there.
37:38
Now everything is fine for me.
37:41
That's a great way to get the confidence up in New Zealand.
37:44
You should play wheels every week.
37:46
Trumbi, it's best you should not talk about confidence because you are the most confident nation in the world.
37:51
You're going to win the World Cup 18 months ago, remember?
37:54
Gentlemen, gentlemen, let's just stay positive.
37:58
One to go.
37:59
What was your moment of the year?
38:02
Speeding so that we're going to get even packed.
38:05
I forgot about that.
38:07
I thought you might have.
38:09
South Africa beating France with 14 men for a long time.
38:14
I think that was really special.
38:17
A Hugo Kenan's try winning our again, win a try in the second test for Lions.
38:23
You know, it's forgotten about that, too.
38:24
I thought you would.
38:26
That's really, that was a pretty good moment for you guys.
38:29
Yeah.
38:30
All right, gentlemen, well, that's the end of the season for us.
38:35
You managed to survive without killing each other.
38:39
Trumbi, you managed to hide when you've been beaten by the South Africans.
38:42
That was well done, but you did swim for the all blacks.
38:44
So and we did have to see you without your shirt on, J.K.
38:49
So, you know, we also, that's the worst moment of the season.
38:53
Yeah, yeah, I'm with you.
38:56
I've been guiding you ever since.
38:59
OK, we'll see you all next season.
39:00
That's rugby rivals.