Latest / The Thunder Down Under Chargers Podcast / HARBAUGH REFUSES TO BACK MCDANIEL! | Chargers Drop to 0-6 in Arrowhead Disaster

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HARBAUGH REFUSES TO BACK MCDANIEL! | Chargers Drop to 0-6 in Arrowhead Disaster · The Thunder Down Under Chargers Podcast

0:03
Who's got it better than that? No one! Robert
0:07
is being chased, thrown on the lawn, and it is
0:10
caught! Touchdown! Keenan Allen! What a great
0:14
goal! My goal is not to break through, my goal
0:15
is to make you harder to break. Here comes ball!
0:18
Number six! Number six! Suits sacked by Joey
0:22
Bolts! 19th yard touchdown! 19th yard touchdown!
0:29
That's his feet, takes a shot down field, has
0:31
Nighton, POD! Billy Joe Armstrong saying, wake
0:52
me up when September ends. Brother, set the alarm
0:56
clock to January when this thing is over. I can't
1:00
take it anymore. Oh, I feel a little bit better
1:04
now. Welcome to the Thunderdown Under Chargers
1:06
podcast, your weekly support group where we recap
1:09
how football, how our football team. turned another
1:13
week into an exercise in pure existential dread.
1:16
I'm your host, Andy. It is official, bold fam.
1:19
Loss number six is in the books. 22 to six, drubbing
1:23
by the Kansas City Chiefs. Six times this year,
1:26
we've invested our emotional wellbeing into this
1:28
team, only to watch them look entirely toothless
1:31
from the opening kickoff. I am of course joined
1:34
by my fellow Gluttons for punishment, Jack and
1:37
Alistair. Fellas, we... Didn't even give ourselves
1:40
the luxury of a fourth quarter collapse this
1:43
week. We just simply rolled over or backwards,
1:46
scored zero touchdowns, and watched an injury
1:48
ravaged roster get thoroughly outclassed through
1:51
the better part of 60 minutes. Al, on a scale
1:53
of mildly numb to fully checked out, how are
1:56
you feeling after a game where we weren't even
1:58
competitive enough to have our hearts broken?
2:02
I'm going to rate it a comfortably numb. I went
2:05
with the Beatles I'm the walrus on the preview
2:07
show so I'm gonna go some Pink Floyd comfortably
2:09
numb it is a skill charges to make me feel absolutely
2:14
nothing at any stage of the game in the game
2:18
where we had a red zone interception a fourth
2:21
down goal line stand a special teams turnover
2:24
in the Chiefs half and the Chiefs also missed
2:27
a field goal in the fourth quarter. All that
2:29
stuff happened Andy, yet I felt not one feeling
2:34
for the entire game. Do you know why? Because
2:37
I know our offense is shit. From the very first
2:39
series of the game, I knew our offense is still
2:43
shit. Herbert's swing check down pass to Hampton,
2:45
minus one yard, second 11. Second down, 11. Batted
2:49
pass, maybe Herbert could have evaded Karloftas.
2:51
Nup, can't. Third and 11. Throws the ball into
2:54
Chris Jones' helmet. Into the turf, punt. It
2:59
didn't really get better than that Jack that
3:00
was the story from the first nap to the last
3:03
nap charges are 0 and 6 for the first time in
3:05
26 years and that was the worst of the six games
3:09
this year in my opinion. It hasn't gotten better
3:14
if you were to tell me before the season starts
3:17
a team that is led by Justin Herbert coached
3:21
offensively by Mike McDaniel and as a head coach
3:25
of Jim Harbaugh. Justin Herbert completes an
3:28
incredible 57 -yard bomb to Quentin Johnston,
3:31
you know, back to his best. Oh, looks good. We're
3:33
at the one yard line and we still can't even
3:36
put it in. Like that's, that's B. I, I, I, I've
3:42
lost all ability to even think. And I, I, you
3:46
can't even write this stuff right, Andy. I, then
3:50
we're on, you know, we're backed up on our own
3:52
goal line and it is just a complete shit show.
3:56
An utter utter complete shit show. I don't think,
4:01
I don't think it could have gotten worse, but
4:03
it did. I had no hope that the offense was going
4:06
to score a touchdown. It was just terrible. Alistair,
4:10
you encapsulated it perfectly, but it is shocking.
4:14
Like it is absolutely shocking. Like we're not
4:17
even in, like, let's be honest, Andy. We're not
4:19
even in NFL offense. Even with all the injuries
4:22
and all that, we are nowhere, we're not even
4:24
a college offense. It looks that disjointed.
4:27
It's terrible. Absolutely terrible. Yeah. Well,
4:31
it's an absolute shambles. It reminds me a little
4:34
bit of like, um, Will Ferrell's semi pro, uh,
4:37
the, the tropics where it's just like one drunk
4:41
guy in the, uh, in the stands, like spilling
4:44
his popcorn and blokes that can't throw the ball,
4:48
catch the ball. It's, it's so amateur. It's not
4:52
even funny. And we're coming up, like I said
4:55
to Al, just, just - Mate, it reminds me of the
4:57
Sean Penn film, I Am Sam. That's what we're actually
5:00
watching up there. Okay. Okay. Well - And we're
5:05
guys that can catch the ball, actually catch
5:06
it. They get concussed and they're out of the
5:08
game. It's like, it's, it's incredible. We've
5:12
got a flag football roster. That's what it is.
5:14
One smidgen of contact and all out. Uh, yeah,
5:19
we, we got three and a half minutes in and we
5:21
said the one positive thing, which was that 57
5:24
yard throw to QJ. So, uh, buckle in guys, pour
5:27
yourself a nice stiff drink and we can hopefully
5:30
provide some kind of, I don't know. Better feeling
5:34
silver lining. Yeah, we'll be the tonic. Cause
5:36
I don't like, I don't get it. Even that highlight,
5:38
which has got to go down as one of Herbert's.
5:40
I know he's had a lot of amazing highlight, real
5:42
throws. That one's up there. That one he's just
5:44
gone stuff it. I'm chucking this. He, I want
5:47
to. I want to credit QJ for it, but I almost,
5:50
it's almost just appeared and stuck to his clavicle.
5:55
Didn't the ball come off the DB's hand into,
5:58
and then just like Velcroed into QJ. Of course
6:01
he caught it on his body. The only way Justin
6:03
Herbert was like, okay, I'm have to get this
6:06
throw off. I'm going to put it. That was literally,
6:09
there was no misalignment millimeter. That was
6:12
zero. That was to zero. That was straight to
6:14
QJ. And yeah, you're right. He caught it on the
6:16
chest. Apparently was injured. So now probably
6:19
QJ is going to be out for five weeks after that.
6:21
He's going to be, you know, due to a, due to
6:23
catching a ball, my chest is now shattered. Good
6:26
on you, mate. And he did fit the one drop in
6:29
as well. Just, just for good measure before the
6:30
end of the game. It was a terrible one too. Oh,
6:32
I've got, I've got, I've got literally like under
6:35
my notes, I always do positive and negative basically
6:38
feature. I've written under offense, literally
6:40
no redeeming feature. Best running plays were
6:44
Herbert scrambling up the middle. Do you know
6:46
what's embarrassing? This is probably Herbert's
6:48
best game for the year. Like, and it was an average
6:51
to below average game with one unacceptable interception
6:55
and battered passes. But he was okay, apart from
6:58
that, like watching through the film today, probably
7:00
his best game of the six and his PFF grade 60
7:03
.5. Don't know what's happened this year. No
7:07
one could have predicted this five touchdowns
7:09
eight interceptions at the bi -week team is own
7:12
six after being ninth Favorite to be the Super
7:15
Bowl winner before the preseason. This is unprecedented
7:18
Stuff at least for us on the broadcast. I dare
7:21
say for you listening. I know Kev Diego threw
7:24
it like two other really bad years, you know
7:27
1991 and then 1971 and This is up there for us.
7:31
We've only been following the team for about
7:33
20 And, uh, this, this has been a hard, hard
7:36
start to the season Andy. Yeah, this, this, this
7:39
really sucks. Jack, I've got a question for you.
7:41
There's, it's a, it's a common trope around the
7:44
NFL that the bi -week always comes at the right
7:47
time. What would happen to this organization,
7:51
this offense, if the bi -week was in week nine,
7:56
would we have to sit through the next three weeks
7:58
of the same garbage or is something actually
8:02
going to change? Well, I'm pretty sure I saw
8:05
Alex in the store posted about 12 hours ago that
8:08
Mike McDaniel and Justin Herbert were on the
8:10
practice field together talking. I don't know
8:13
whether that was, I think that was right. So
8:15
clearly nothing's happened so far. Uh, yeah,
8:18
we, we, we probably would. I have a feeling that
8:21
we've got owners and where we're sitting at as
8:23
an organization that we're probably going to
8:25
have to see this one out and they're going to
8:27
have to take stock at the end of the year. And
8:31
there's a listener. I won't put his name out,
8:33
but we had a quite a good chat on X and he'll
8:36
know who he is. But I've now completely sort
8:38
of come full circle. I've taken my tonic and
8:41
been thinking about this because I said, Oh,
8:43
maybe not hire anyone. But then I, then I did
8:46
some numbers digging and I just went and looked
8:48
for where Justin Herbert is sitting. And I just
8:50
wanted to get some kind of like, okay, is it
8:52
that bad? Is it actually that bad? Is he that
8:54
broken? Um, yeah, it is. So, uh, he has negative
9:00
52 .5 total EPA and that is putting, and his
9:04
EPA per drop back is 33rd out of 34 quarterbacks
9:07
in the league. Uh, his deep passing is 28th out
9:13
of 34. Um, his pass a risk. So he's, he's at
9:18
a 6 .3, um, interception worthy throw rate. His
9:23
movement outside of the pocket a second out of
9:26
all out of 28 quarterbacks, but it means he's
9:28
moving. Like his net like in a pulse QB model
9:33
has him at negative 14 EPA. It's just unbelievable
9:38
and he's also being pressured on 50 upwards of
9:40
50 % about 51 .2 % of drop back. So there is
9:44
that. But then when you look at the stats, I'm
9:46
like, Oh, maybe I can find Alice to something
9:48
redeeming. This is what brought me to it. Like
9:50
redeeming in his numbers in this game. And when
9:52
you compare it to Patrick Mahomes, who I don't
9:54
think had that good of a game, but kind of sneakily
9:56
did is that Justin's Herbert, Justin Herbert's
10:01
APA was negative 14, whereas Patrick Mahomes
10:04
was two was plus 2 .8. So you're talking about
10:08
A 16 point differential when it comes to EPA.
10:13
That was the difference between the two callbacks.
10:16
That's the margin. 22 to 6. That is unbelievable.
10:20
Numbers don't lie. Numbers do not lie. I just
10:24
don't know where to go with Justin Herbert. I
10:26
think he is broken and Mike McDaniel is the reason
10:29
why he's done that. Again, I still see him on
10:32
play action dancing around his footworks all
10:34
over the shop. And the only time that he makes
10:36
really good throws is when the pocket is kind
10:38
of broken and he has to kind of sling it to someone
10:41
who's probably already open. But Alistair, you
10:44
shared some film with us, no TDU film this week,
10:46
but the anticipatory throwing was a little bit
10:49
better, but still not great. Yeah, I agree with
10:52
that. He didn't make so many egregious errors.
10:55
I didn't see the turn downs this week where I
10:58
thought, oh, there was an open guy there and
10:59
you didn't see it. Or, you know, he didn't suddenly
11:02
go into a tailspin after he made that bad throw
11:06
earlier in the game. So I thought the composure
11:09
was fine. I thought the stuff around him was
11:11
not fine. Arunde Gadsden, I very rarely question
11:17
effort from players, but he doesn't look like
11:20
he's trying. on certain plays i don't know how
11:22
he didn't catch that ball that was thrown to
11:24
him in the in the red zone he's not running routes
11:27
at full pace he's not on the injury list so i
11:29
don't think it's that kls's attention to detail
11:32
on route running is is pitiful it's poor it's
11:35
kind of some of the stuff we saw at auburn and
11:38
and lad mcconkey getting injured in the first
11:40
quarter in this game really hurt the team because
11:43
you saw in that first 17 yard completion that
11:46
is what the mike mcdaniel Offense is supposed
11:49
to look like with the intermediate chunks into
11:51
the middle of the field between 10 to 20 yards
11:54
off play action. Herbert fit that throw in beautifully.
11:58
Unfortunately, it looks like ladders kind of
12:00
crashed and I expect that's the play that he
12:03
heard his head in and has to get out of the game.
12:06
That made a massive difference. We saw a similar
12:09
completion to start the second half with KLS,
12:11
but apart from that, he's not really like, everything
12:15
is just hard work in this offense, Jack, like
12:17
They are making a 5 yard completion look difficult.
12:21
They don't have a running game. The screen passes
12:23
aren't working. Off play action in this game.
12:26
Justin Herbert is 7 of 13 for 29 yards and a
12:30
pick. He averaged 3 .8 yards per attempt when
12:35
kept clean in this game. So I'll make that question
12:41
Andy started with a bit tougher for you Jack.
12:43
Should the Chargers make a move at the bye? What
12:46
do you think? Well, the move is Adam Gase, so
12:50
it doesn't get any better. Yeah, because fans
12:53
are saying, why is Mick McDaniel on the team?
12:55
He should be fired. There's a question there.
12:57
Should they do it? Should they make a change
12:58
or should they run, stick with it? Just with
13:02
the options that you go, like, do I want Adam
13:05
Gase calling it? Who's a guy that's come into
13:08
the organization this year? There's no continuity.
13:10
Then you go Shane Day. Has Shane Day ever been
13:12
an offensive coordinator? I don't know if someone
13:14
has to fact check that. So then you're asking
13:16
a guy who's never been an offensive coordinator
13:18
to step into that role. Maybe the same who else
13:22
is there? I, I just don't know. Uh, so yeah,
13:28
but Harbaugh. So, and this is the issue with
13:30
having a CEO head coach, right? Cause Harbaugh
13:32
can't take over and done it. Cause he, he's never
13:34
really called offense before. So I mean, even
13:37
though he's an ex quarterback, he just obviously
13:40
It probably, I know, does he understand Mike
13:42
McDaniel's playbook? What playbook do you go
13:44
to? Cause if you're going to stick with the same
13:48
play, if it's Gase, right, the natural progression
13:49
is Gase. Well, Gase has been bought in for Mike
13:52
McDaniel's playbook. No. So is the playbook going
13:54
to change? The playbook is going to change. Brand
13:59
new playbook based off the intelligence of our
14:03
receiver position, picking up this offense. I
14:05
wouldn't be throwing a whole new playbook at
14:07
them in week seven. Can you imagine what Adam
14:08
Gase's playbook looks like? Run, run, run. About
14:13
an hour ago, my son decided to take to the, uh,
14:16
the living room mat with texters. It would all
14:18
be rolled up. I reckon that was a little bit
14:20
more... To snort lines off a plate. There was
14:25
more, there was more X's and O's in the, in the
14:27
scribble on the carpet an hour ago than what
14:30
I can only imagine is contained in Adam Gase's
14:33
colouring book. So, so you know what? So yes.
14:37
Yes. Okay. A really good organisation should
14:39
get rid of the play caller. They should have
14:41
someone there to go. but we don't. And this is
14:43
really disappointing because you'd think in a
14:45
CEO role that you'd have lots of guys ready to
14:48
step up, wanting to go, but we don't. So I think
14:51
we're absolutely and utterly cooked in that sense.
14:54
So then you just hope and pray. Andy, I have
14:56
something to ask you. Do you think, and this
14:58
is pure speculation folks, but it just came to
15:00
me. Do you think Arunde Gadsden was really offended
15:03
that Njoku and Cola were hired? And is, do you
15:08
think there maybe there could be this rift where
15:10
McDaniel's come in and tried to hire his guys
15:12
and it hasn't really worked particularly well?
15:15
Because I, I can't remember seeing a player,
15:18
Arunde Gazdin, look like an utter star in the
15:22
making. And he's gone nowhere. That's a huge
15:27
drop off. Look, it could be, but he, he's a second
15:31
year player. This is professional sports. You
15:33
can't let that kind of thing. You know detract
15:37
from your output while you're being paid all
15:39
this money to perform and he's not performing
15:42
I think it's more of a communication thing getting
15:44
to the players and not being able to understand
15:47
and execute more than anything else and Being
15:50
oh and six young player Maybe it's a little bit
15:55
of the mind wanders a bit when you you know,
15:58
you're oh and six and you're losing games and
16:01
it's down the stretch and I don't know. I think
16:04
it's more kind of that and I do look I do think
16:06
that there's There could be a little bit of an
16:09
upset apple cart if you will with McDaniel coming
16:12
in and bringing all these guys over Especially
16:16
because they're either injured or it's not working
16:19
The only guy unfortunately the one guy that has
16:22
managed to remain healthy is the most useless
16:26
right guard I've ever seen so Well No, at least
16:33
this year for the judges. Oh, I tell you what,
16:36
I'd rather have... He's the veteran on the line
16:39
and he is just shocking. What would you do, Andy?
16:45
Would you fire McDaniel or do you think it's
16:48
in the interests of the team to stick with it
16:51
a little bit longer? Yeah. Going off what Jack
16:54
was saying, I think a good organization would
16:56
make a change. A really bad organization would
16:59
make a change without a plan. And I don't think
17:02
the Chargers have a plan outside of this. We're
17:06
in the mold of a team that's owned by someone
17:10
who's probably too stubborn to admit his own
17:12
mistakes and eat the humble pie and lose all
17:16
this cash that he's promised Mike McDaniel and
17:18
sever the contract. And then what Adam Gase takes
17:24
over and we're still crap and then we're still
17:28
Like, we're not going to find the new guy this
17:30
year. Maybe there's hope that with the injuries
17:34
that are coming, players that are scheduled to
17:36
return from injury, we'll bring a little bit
17:39
of a juge towards the end of the season and something
17:42
to roll on with. All I see there is just winning
17:46
an annoying amount of games to bring into question
17:50
next April when the draft comes around. So it
17:54
really depends on what the plan is. Do they just
17:58
want to see this season as a mulligan and go,
18:00
oh, and six, it's done. Any games that we win
18:03
past, you know, Tennessee, Miami, all those sort
18:07
of cellar -dweller teams, we're just moving ourselves
18:10
out of contention for the number one pick. I
18:13
hate losing, I hate the idea of tanking, but
18:16
I don't see what the best -case scenario is for
18:19
the rest of this season. other than running the
18:21
table and finishing 10 and six and bowing out
18:24
in the wild card. It could be 11 to six if they
18:28
run the table. Not happening. Um, I chuck in
18:32
my opinion as well, because the, the temper is
18:35
always hot with any team. The NFL is pretty crazy
18:39
like that. It doesn't matter what your past success
18:40
has been the moment you have this kind of start
18:42
to a season, people get fired. I think the main
18:45
argument for firing him is something other symbolic
18:48
that this kind of Output can't be tolerated.
18:52
We need to make a symbolic gesture that tells
18:54
the locker room. It's not good enough. But if
18:56
the goal is If they got like real the realistic
19:00
goal can't be making playoffs at this stage I
19:02
don't think the team's not gonna Tear off 11
19:05
wins in a row or 10 and I don't think a change
19:07
of coordinator would achieve that Anyway, so
19:11
so that being the case. I kind of think My views
19:14
the best case scenario for the charges is this
19:16
guy they've hired Mike McDaniel who has coach
19:19
good offenses before Actually somehow manages
19:22
to turn it around later on in the year. He is
19:24
contracted until the end of next year So I kind
19:27
of think why you keep him is you you Like the
19:31
best outcome this season is actually if he does
19:33
fulfill something and the teams from week 9 10
19:36
11 12 13 14 15 gets like significantly better
19:40
and everyone starts to feel hey we did lose five
19:43
games we only won five games we only won six
19:45
games but finally that's what we thought we were
19:48
getting and then you've got a real decision to
19:49
make at the end of the season that's kind of
19:51
where i'd go jack um but most one in fired Yeah,
19:56
but he does deserve to be right. Like, you know,
19:58
if he got fired, I wouldn't think it's unfair
20:00
based on the output. No, and I think, and I think
20:03
if there was a world where we were improving
20:05
every week and that there was, there was some
20:09
signs and people, and they might point to injuries
20:12
that hasn't been there, but it's just been so
20:16
poor, so poor. And the fact is Justin Herbert
20:19
looks so bad. So bad. And let alone that he's
20:23
kind of ruined a first round running back. He's
20:26
got one of the fastest guys in the running in
20:28
the leg at running back and Kate Mitchell. Then
20:30
he's got Kamani Vidal has been really serviceable.
20:32
They didn't get a first down. There was not one
20:35
rushing first down against the Kansas city chiefs.
20:40
What? And I looked at that. I went now that that
20:46
must be wrong. I'm thinking that's wrong. Is
20:50
it? I feel like, I feel like I've got it in front
20:53
of me because I've got - It can't be! Is it wrong?
20:56
I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I can't
20:58
think of too many obvious ones. Put it that way.
21:00
But that's what I've got. I mean, I just worry
21:02
about the, all the fits, all the fits and - If
21:07
there was some, you know, all of a sudden, Amar
21:09
and Hampton started running well, or there was
21:11
a slight change to Justin Herbert's footwork,
21:13
but it just seems to be this definition of insanity
21:15
is trying the same thing over and over and over
21:17
again and hoping to get different results. That's
21:19
what it kind of feels like. So I can, I guess
21:22
it's six games enough. Maybe it is. Maybe it
21:25
is. It's been terrible. It's so dysfunctional.
21:30
Like not even the jets look this dysfunction,
21:32
not even the Titans to a point, but at least
21:34
the Titans are scoring points. Like this is,
21:36
this is worse than Greg Roman's offense in a
21:38
playoff game. It's really, really bad. Oh, no.
21:44
At least Greg Roman could get a yard when he
21:45
needed to. If Justin Herbert made a 57 yarder
21:48
under Greg Roman to the one yard line, we're
21:51
scoring a touchdown. Greg Roman could get the
21:53
run himself from the fullback position. Mike
21:55
McDaniel could not. But that's, so that's the
21:58
other thing that worries me as well. On top of
22:00
that, you've got a team that even if you've got
22:03
rookies, you've got to get that. You have to
22:06
get it. That's all about will and that's all
22:08
about attitude. And that's about I'm, we're going
22:11
to get this no matter what. That's what worries
22:13
me on the flip side, Andy, the defense is bawling
22:16
out. I love them. I love Chris O 'Leary. They're
22:19
doing the best they can. Um, and if you look
22:21
at the difference in investment from first round
22:24
picks to later round picks, whatever Minter has
22:28
built in this with, with this core team and what
22:31
Chris O 'Leary has taken over and adapted exceptional.
22:33
I thought they played really, really well and
22:36
tried to keep us in it as much as they can. I
22:38
mean, the chiefs are just such a, such better
22:39
coached outfit. Um, but yeah, but, but, but my
22:42
positive was the defense. Um, and, and what they
22:45
were able to do. We always knew Kenneth Walker
22:47
and Kenneth Walker is playing like an MVP level
22:49
at the moment. And my homes looked, looked really
22:51
good, but they forced turnovers that they gave
22:54
opportunities. Um, But yeah, McDaniel just cooked
22:58
it. Absolutely. The defense probably had a couple
23:02
of drives or parts of drives where they got gashed.
23:05
And that was sort of, you know, where Kenneth
23:07
Walker was scoring and Noah Gray, 31 yard, like
23:13
that kind of stuff where it's just a little slip
23:15
in. But otherwise, you know, they had a goal
23:17
line stand of their own. And They yeah, they
23:22
forced a red zone interception like they like
23:25
Al said at the start of the show You see those
23:27
sort of things and you go. Oh We've got to be
23:30
in this one. We've got a we've got to be you
23:32
know You also see a plus four turnover differential
23:35
against Buffalo and go must have won must have
23:37
won them But this team is finding a way to not
23:41
Just to just to flip back you were I had a quick
23:45
look while you were you were talking Jack and
23:47
I think you were right there was a Jet sweep
23:49
to Darius Davis that resulted in a first down,
23:52
but I don't think anything from Mitchell, Vidal
23:55
or Hampton. Vidal had a nine yard run on the
23:59
first down. Otherwise they ran the ball on first
24:02
down 12 different times. And their most on a
24:05
run was four yards before that nine yard carry.
24:07
And that nine yard carry was followed by a zero
24:11
yard gain. And then the KLS throw, that became
24:13
a fumble on third and one after being second
24:16
and one. You can't even make this stuff up. Sorry,
24:20
were you gonna finish making a point before I
24:22
cut? Oh, I was just gonna say that Jack said
24:25
you we've ruined a first round running back.
24:28
I don't think that Hampton is the problem himself
24:31
It's the way that he's used and the way that
24:35
Mike McDaniel Telegraphs to the defense when
24:38
Hampton's on the field. The ball is gonna be
24:40
run And if it's first down the ball and if Mitchell
24:44
or Vidale are on the outside are on the field
24:46
It's it's going outside zone. So I think they've
24:50
just made it. That's where I'm going to jump
24:51
in. Because one thing that was quite surprising
24:55
in this game and listeners, I didn't post TDU
24:58
film this week in protest, but I did watch the
25:00
all 22 as prep for this show. TDU film will be
25:03
back next week. Tune in live. After the bye.
25:06
Bye week. You in the bath tub. Me in the shower.
25:13
Me doing frigging broadcaster impersonations.
25:17
Sniffing my own ass. So both, both, both coordinate,
25:23
both coordinators came out and broke tendencies
25:26
in this game. That's what I wanted to say. So
25:28
you, what you said is totally right, Andy, that
25:30
it's been quite predictable over the last few
25:32
weeks that if, if Hamden's in, it's going to
25:34
be between the tackles and if Kate Mitchell comes,
25:37
it's going to be outside the tackles. McDaniel
25:39
came into this game running predominantly gap
25:41
scheme runs with everyone. It was quite interesting
25:44
to see. He ran duo power trap. Couple of successful
25:48
runs but not really. So overall from the game
25:50
there were 11 gap runs, 6 zone runs. It did seem
25:54
like a hardball directive that we need to kind
25:57
of run through the B gap and the A gap a little
25:59
bit more. Unfortunately it still didn't work
26:02
and I think the blocking largely has something
26:05
to do with that. It's not a great run blocking
26:08
group with Logan Taylor in there. I thought Cole...
26:11
Strange is okay i thought slaughter struggled
26:14
in the run game even though pff disagreed with
26:16
me but that's why again we saw guys being hit
26:19
in the backfield more often than not. Conversely
26:22
chris o 'leary really surprised the chiefs and
26:24
that's why we got off to a pretty good start.
26:27
He dialed up the man coverage way more cover
26:30
two man or cover one even the cover zero that
26:34
kenneth walker 33 yard rush was actually on a
26:37
cover zero. And that's why there was no one once
26:40
he got through the first line suddenly it's 30
26:43
a 30 yard score but he really took the fight
26:45
to Casey early in the game other than worthy
26:48
having a completion on Cam Hard on man coverage
26:51
early. Henley did well to get out ahead of a
26:54
screen on the play that hurt Travis Kelsey's
26:56
ankle that was man coverage and generally we
26:58
trusted the guys on the back end like Tade still
27:00
in Cam Hard who played quite well to. counterbalance
27:04
our quarters coverage game with a bit more true
27:07
traditional man. I thought that would be a recipe
27:09
for disaster. I was saying on the preview, Jack,
27:11
we should just defend the run from our split
27:14
safety too high shell. No, O 'Leary kind of changed
27:17
it. Unfortunately, I think the Chiefs kind of
27:20
took advantage of that in the second half. And
27:22
what you see, what really hurts man coverage
27:24
is crossing routes, because it's way harder to
27:27
chase routes across the field. And you saw Dean
27:29
Leonard get trapped on one where I think it was
27:31
worthy. took the ball the other way. Also, some
27:34
of the runs of Kenneth Walker in the second half
27:36
outside the tackle. When you're in man coverage,
27:39
it's easier to hit those runs because in zone,
27:42
you've got eyes on the quarterback. You're off,
27:44
you're off coverage coming downhill. When you're
27:46
in man, you kind of follow your man and turn
27:48
your back. And there are maybe two or three runs
27:50
from Kenneth Walker in the second half where
27:52
that's what good coaches do. Andy Reid said,
27:55
Hey, they're playing a lot more man coverage
27:56
than usual this week. I better dial up my man
27:58
coverage beaters. And he did a few times, but
28:00
I thought, Hey, Home still made a terrible red
28:03
zone interception. We still managed to kind of
28:05
have, have a few stops on third and short. So
28:08
Jack, to bring it back, I agree. It was another,
28:11
just yet another good performance from Chris
28:12
O 'Leary, who's the bright spot of the entire
28:15
season so far, if you ask me. Yeah. And all you
28:19
can ask is that I sort of feel, and just looking
28:24
at some of the numbers, you know, we're now kind
28:27
of, when we look at sort of metrics. And total
28:30
yards allowed and rush yards allowed, we're kind
28:33
of sort of moving from sort of 12th to now 15th
28:38
to 20th, we're sort of dropping there. But, you
28:41
know, you look at EPA and we're 11th in the league,
28:44
so we allow us... 0 .04 and we're 10th in the
28:50
league for takeaways. So sorry, we're third,
28:52
I should say with 10 takeaways. So as the year
28:55
goes on, some of those numbers are going to expand
28:57
a bit. Um, and people are going to say, or you
29:01
could easily look at them and say the defense
29:02
is getting worse and worse. But I mean, the offense
29:05
puts them in terrible positions. So I think that
29:07
EPA is, is something that is, that it's a really
29:10
good, is a really good profile for this, for
29:12
this defense. And, and if Chris O 'Leary can
29:14
keep this defense in and around like anywhere
29:17
between sort of 10 -15. The guy should be a head
29:21
coach in a couple of years because it's just
29:23
incredible. I thought the Cam Harty deception
29:26
was a great call just from back to front. Mahomes
29:30
looked really confused and he just wanted to
29:32
get it away. That was fantastic. Mack, I kind
29:36
of feel like had a bit of a quieter game, wasn't
29:39
particularly disruptive. You know, I'll say that
29:43
for all the edges, Jack. I thought offensive
29:46
tackles actually played quite well, which is
29:48
a shame because one was the UDFA. We didn't get
29:51
much pressure. Yeah. Yeah. So, but I mean, yeah,
29:57
generally speaking, the, the, the units front
30:00
to back on, on defense, uh, really well. Andy,
30:03
did you see, did you reckon there was an improvement
30:05
on special teams with the, uh, yeah, well, I
30:09
mean, there's, there's a turnover there. So that's
30:11
a tick, right? Um, Cam Dicker was good by boot
30:15
two from two. There's, I mean, I'm still. Two
30:19
good returns from Darius. That was honestly,
30:22
that was probably the cleanest special teams
30:24
performance of the year. They didn't stuff anything
30:26
up. Massive, uh, upgrade from last week and the
30:30
week before from, from Davis. I still like, I'm
30:33
not even concerned about special teams and Darius
30:36
Davis, because there's just so many other issues,
30:38
right? The defense that we have now, whilst it's
30:41
not at the level that Minters was the last two
30:45
seasons, this is a defense that Phil Rivers would
30:47
have craved, like could have brought him success,
30:50
that Herbert in the Staley era could have had
30:53
genuine success with. And it's just the whole
30:57
team identity or lack thereof that we are playing.
31:01
So far from complimentary football it's not even
31:03
funny the defense gets gashed when they've been
31:06
off off the field they've turned the ball over.
31:09
Offense is on the field three and out defense
31:11
is back on exhausted and then they they gashed.
31:15
And then the worst one the fucking giving us
31:18
one they give me on they giving up. I think it
31:21
was about 40 yards in 18 seconds before halftime
31:25
so the chase can kick another field goal it's
31:26
it's instances like that. That one's actually
31:29
worse. I didn't even know which one did. So the
31:31
fact that we had the ball with a minute 40 left
31:33
and then managed to somehow leave the chase with
31:36
enough time to score a field goal after that,
31:38
that's outrageous. The one that was so upsetting
31:42
to watch is the one where we start with the ball
31:44
in the back of our end zone at the one yard line,
31:46
right? We do nothing, nothing, nothing. We have
31:49
a frigging delay of game at the quarter inch
31:51
of a yard line, right? Then we punt and on that
31:55
punt, That's where they fumble the ball and we
31:58
give the ball back to the offense. So the next
31:59
drive starts at the LSE 40 and we go three and
32:03
out. Yeah. And it bumps it again. So you guys
32:06
have just had like seven terrible downs in a
32:09
row and special teams said, OK. Forget the goal
32:12
line here. Start at the 40. Oh, three and out
32:15
punting. Sorry. Yeah. Sorry. That's a massive
32:17
momentum shifter. That's a massive up, a massive
32:19
uptick for special teams. That is the momentum
32:22
shifter that puts you in the driver's seat and
32:25
you've stalled so bad. The clutch, the brake
32:28
and the accelerator have all fallen out of the
32:30
car. You're on your, you don't even have wheels.
32:32
The car is on bricks, man. Sandy on his piece.
32:36
I'm going to stop. I got to say Andy, you said
32:41
that this is a defense that Philip Rivers would
32:44
have craved. Through six weeks, Chris O 'Leary
32:48
is doing things from game to game that even make,
32:52
I go, you know what, if we had Chris O 'Leary
32:53
last year, I reckon this could have been a risk.
32:57
The defense could have been a top five unit like,
32:59
well, they were a top five unit. I got to, but
33:01
there's, I just liked the way Chris O 'Leary
33:03
mixes up his, um, mixed up his game plan. As
33:06
you were saying, Alistair to like try and take
33:08
it to them. I guess Minta was more tried and
33:10
tested. you'll beat us, you'll beat us, but we're
33:14
going to beat you eventually. I just love the
33:16
pressure packages that O 'Leary's is doing. It
33:19
kind of, you know how we almost said, remember
33:21
we had that stupid, well now seems stupid in
33:23
retrospect is would you want a really aggressive
33:25
defense or a not aggressive defense and a Mike
33:28
McDaniel scheme? And we're like, oh, we're going
33:30
to be putting up 40 points. So go aggressive.
33:32
This is fine. That's good. Yeah, let's go. We,
33:36
we have an offense that is like non -existent.
33:40
Uh, and I'll just reiterate and say Chris O 'Leary,
33:43
man, keep him the, can he be the next head coach?
33:46
Possibly. Let's go. Let's go. Let's give him
33:49
another minute, another minute or two as a defensive
33:51
coordinator before we start dialing that stuff
33:54
up. But it's, it's a fair, it's a fair call.
33:57
He reads the game. He's got a feel for it. He,
33:59
he gets it and he can deliver a message to his
34:03
players. She knows not to be said on the other
34:08
side of the football. Jack, can I ask you a big
34:12
picture leadership type of question? And I don't
34:16
want to walk over your teachable moment. I know
34:17
you've spent a lot of time preparing that. So
34:19
I don't know what you're going to be talking
34:20
about, but, um, it looks something we've praised
34:24
Harbaugh for in the past has been that he empowers
34:27
his staff, right. And these hands off, but this
34:31
year, do you think the hands off approach to
34:34
leadership has actually been a weakness? When
34:36
you say the Mike McDaniel struggles on offense.
34:39
That's my question. Yeah, absolutely. I, and
34:42
I think that's where we see Harbaugh standing
34:45
up at the podium, almost gobsmacked. I wonder
34:49
if he's gone too far the other direction. I could
34:53
imagine him being the, the demonstrator, you
34:56
know, I imagine him in the San Fran days, the
34:58
demonstrative Harbaugh screaming all this kind
35:00
of stuff. And it may have tried. He's, he's tried
35:05
to adapt it to the more modern player that doesn't
35:07
want to get yelled at, doesn't want to be screamed
35:11
at. And this time, you know, like don't want
35:13
to be too aggressive because they're different,
35:14
you know, the different breeds, the younger kids
35:16
that, yeah, they don't take criticism. Well,
35:19
I mean, Isaac Rochelle, you know, someone shared
35:21
on our chat had this big idea, had this big rant
35:24
about, you know, there's no I guess critiquing
35:28
you know he gave a story of Philip Rivers running
35:29
over to him and critique him from a hundred yards
35:32
across the field because he he was taking it
35:34
easy in a in a in a training drill. So yeah I
35:39
reckon he's in completely and Andy you said it
35:41
last week really well he's in completely uncharted
35:43
waters as a head coach and as a leader because
35:45
it is a real shock to the system. When you hire
35:49
a guy, you think it's going to work, you think
35:51
it's going to work, then all of a sudden it's
35:52
not. And you've put complete and utter trust
35:54
in them. It's very hard then as a leader, I think
35:58
to go and start micromanaging because you just
36:01
completely destroy that person's confidence.
36:03
So you go, okay, well, I can't do that. But if
36:05
you keep doing it, you, if you keep letting them
36:08
do what they're doing, you risk completely tearing
36:10
the organization apart. And I kind of have a
36:13
feeling we might be at that point now. Because
36:15
when someone says, what's the message and you
36:17
go, I don't know, we're looking at everything
36:19
that strikes me as a person who doesn't know
36:21
what they're doing or doesn't have a plan. As
36:25
you said as well, Andy, I just don't think he's
36:28
got a plan at the moment. So it is poor leadership,
36:32
but it's only poor leadership if it goes badly.
36:35
If we're sitting here four and two, we're saying
36:37
what a master class. But this is where we're
36:41
at. So, yeah, I'm going to say, unfortunately,
36:43
you've failed this leadership test, Jim. Hmm.
36:46
That being the case, Andy, do you think, um,
36:50
do you think the fans and, and, you know, we've
36:52
got a few very good listeners and friends of
36:54
ours who they're not doing victory laps, but
36:56
they're getting close because there are some
36:58
fans who didn't like cardboard from the start
37:00
and thought he's a shooting star who comes in
37:03
bright and then it burns, he burns things up
37:05
and everything gets torn down. And now look,
37:08
see, we were right. Oh, and six, we were right.
37:11
Do you think the hardball era is done? Does this
37:14
mean it was a failure or can good coaches have
37:17
bad seasons and still be good coaches and then
37:20
have a good season next year? It does seem, at
37:22
least to me, maybe in the NFL more than any other
37:25
sport. It's really, you have one bad year and
37:27
people want you fired and it's almost like your
37:29
track record no longer matters. What do you think?
37:33
Yeah, it's a tough one because I'd say no. I'd
37:39
say, no, I don't think the era, the, the horrible
37:42
era is done, but I just cannot listen to him
37:46
with any confidence. These press conferences,
37:48
man, it's a car accident. It, I feel so uncomfortable
37:52
watching him watching Justin Herbert in front
37:55
of the, like, Herbert's always been a bit kind
37:57
of will not give anything up, but you read his
38:01
facial expressions and he is just like, I don't
38:04
know what the fuck we're doing. I don't know
38:05
what what is going on here and Harbaugh is doing
38:09
his absolute best to dance around pointed questions
38:12
and, and, you know, giving truthful answers.
38:17
I know he's, his philosophy is to protect those
38:19
around him. And, you know, he took the blame
38:21
with that fourth down call last week, but I'm
38:25
just, I don't know if, if he doesn't know how
38:30
to get sort of not discipline, but, um, remonstrate
38:36
with Mike McDaniel and bring things up and because
38:38
we've got Justin Herbert and Mike McDaniel aren't
38:42
too dissimilar in their personality types and
38:44
that is not and neither of them are alpha big
38:48
kind of big personalities. They're not like holding
38:53
people to account in a way that you know a Sean
38:56
McVay would at the Rams that kind of thing. So
39:00
we don't have that and I don't know if Harbaugh
39:02
is comfortable at the moment with the Menage
39:06
-a -trois of weirdos. I don't know if he's weird
39:09
enough to overall Mike McDaniel. So I don't,
39:15
I think McDaniel will go first and if, unless
39:18
he can turn it around in the back end of the
39:20
year and we can see improvement and see identity,
39:23
start seeing cohesion within the playing group
39:26
and the coaching staff. And I think maybe Harbaugh
39:30
can turn this around, but it's a tough one. I
39:35
didn't know enough about Harbaugh in his earlier
39:37
years to know whether he would come in and lift
39:40
us up from the doldrums and then fizzle out.
39:44
The hard bit is when you think it might be age
39:47
related because people do slow down and mid sixties
39:51
people's personalities change. I think you're
39:53
right to say that Jack, the generation changes,
39:56
the way you coach kids changes or younger. people
40:00
changes. We saw Bill Belichick kind of really
40:03
crash out and end his career poorly despite being
40:05
the greatest to have ever done it. So I just,
40:07
I didn't mean any disrespect to some, some of
40:09
the listeners who, who are saying, Hey, we're
40:11
right, Hubbell's lost it. It certainly seems
40:13
to be the case that he looks lost without answers
40:16
at the moment. As you said, Jack, the first good
40:19
sign for me was in the presser. This was the
40:21
first time he actually said, well, we need to
40:23
consider everything because this isn't good enough
40:24
and the offense isn't working. He has not said
40:27
that. in the first five weeks at all. This was
40:30
the first like, okay, what I just watched was
40:33
an absolute shit show. That was non -competitive.
40:35
At least the other games were being competitive.
40:38
So we watch and we see, and if it's not a personnel
40:43
change over the buy, I'm interested to see if
40:46
it's a schematic change or use of players differently
40:49
if it's not gonna be a change of play caller,
40:52
for example. Interesting question. Let us know
40:54
what you think in the comments. just to sort
40:57
of round out the sort of recap and the chat on
41:00
the team. If the schematics, the personnel are
41:05
changed and it still doesn't work because they're
41:08
just not up to standard, because we do have a
41:12
massive injury list, there's no two ways around
41:14
it, but using that as an excuse is just poor
41:17
roster construction, right? You bring in your
41:19
depth and sure, the O -line's rookies, but are
41:23
we... Is it good depth or are they just names
41:26
that fill out of 53? Does it go back onto Joe
41:29
Hortese and the negligence that he showed of
41:32
the interior offensive line over the last two
41:34
or three years? The strongest question that I've
41:37
heard in the press conference over the last couple
41:40
of weeks was how is Herbert still getting hit
41:43
at the rate that he is and sacked and pressured
41:46
when two and a half years ago your first point
41:50
was to protect Justin Herbert. And it just has
41:53
not happened. Like, and the way Jim answered
41:57
that, that's sort of what led me to saying what
41:59
I said about how he dances around answers. The
42:01
way that he answered that was a guy that knows
42:03
he's wrong, but won't admit it. Um, cause that's,
42:06
that's the reality of the situation. Yeah. Bit
42:10
like Ali. Anyway, that's my last little bit on
42:13
that. And I'll just go back to when you really
42:17
need it, when you really have it on the one yard
42:19
line. I've never played the game. I don't know,
42:23
but at that, at that point it is one person against
42:27
another person who wants it more. It really is.
42:31
It's a battle of, you know, you're talking about,
42:33
yeah, I know they're all rookies on the, but
42:35
I mean, the weight differential is not that big.
42:38
You've got to just load it. You've got to get
42:40
it. Like you have to get it. And the fact was
42:42
the reason we moved back because it was a, it
42:43
was, there was a. Slaughter held. Yeah. He kind
42:45
of saw the thing, even though the run wasn't
42:48
going through his gap. He kind of, he did. So
42:50
he was still holding. you know, so I just keep
42:54
going back. Like you go back to the teacher,
42:56
but you're trying too hard and then you make
42:59
mistakes and then you just try it. You try harder
43:01
and you make more mistakes. It just looks, but
43:04
yeah, there's, there's just some attitude things
43:06
that It, as I said, like, it's hard to describe,
43:09
but when you look at the offense, you look at
43:11
the way Justin Herbert reacts when he throws
43:12
it onto Chris Jones's head. It's like he's, it's
43:15
like he's disinterested, but he's like, what,
43:17
it's just sort of going, what am I doing? And
43:19
you look at the Gadstons and you look at the
43:22
rookies trying hard, but they're just holding
43:25
or getting absolutely beaten. Theo Weiss is our
43:27
best player guys. I'm not even joking. He's playing
43:31
for his life. Add this to the list of wide receiver
43:35
sixes who actually better than the guys ahead
43:37
of him. They've been a few over the years where
43:39
you're like, who's that guy, right? He's okay.
43:42
Oh, it's just, yeah, it's really, just really
43:45
sad, really sad. It's sad to admit this. Anyway,
43:49
bye week. No, no losses available in week seven
43:52
for the charges. We'll find a way, mate. Jack,
43:57
what do you got for us? Ah, I have to go Buddhism
44:02
here. I've been reading. What's the book I've
44:08
been reading? I can't remember now. It's how
44:12
to construct a motorcycle or the Buddhist guide
44:14
to motorcycle construction or something like
44:16
that. I'm lying. I read it about six months ago.
44:21
Anyway, I came across this concert the other
44:22
day and it was called Anika, A -N -I -C -C -A.
44:27
And that is about the idea of impermanence. And
44:31
the idea that nothing in existence is permanent.
44:34
In fact, I have a tattoo on my wrist that is
44:37
very sort of similar and sort of says the same
44:40
thing is that everything is a constant state
44:42
of change. It's a cycle. Mountains road, rivers
44:45
change course, and stars eventually burn out.
44:48
And even the universe itself is in a state of
44:51
entropy, you know, where all usable energy has
44:54
been exhausted or will be exhausted soon. Eventually
44:56
everything comes to an end. And then. I guess
45:00
there's something very strangely comforting in
45:02
that. I find that comforting anyway, because
45:05
it kind of means that no matter how painful or
45:07
how repetitive or how seemingly eternal something
45:11
feels, it can't last forever. So this too shall
45:14
pass. I find quite a lot of solace in that. You
45:16
know, one day the sun will eventually consume
45:18
the earth. The oceans will evaporate. And I would
45:22
believe that every trace of human civilization
45:25
will one day probably disappear. And somewhere
45:28
in that vast kind of understanding in the, in
45:32
different silence of the cosmos, if you will.
45:35
Uh, the Los Angeles charges, I hope will finally
45:39
just stop losing football games. Probably class
45:44
dismissed. I like that. Anyway, that was off
45:52
the cuff. That one. I'm doing something prepared
45:55
anyway. Yeah. That was very much relief teaching.
45:59
Well said or substitute teaching. Maybe I have
46:05
relief. Let's play a bit of Buy Sell Hold, fellas,
46:10
just to finish off the show. Al, do you want
46:15
to start us off, mate? Yeah, I do. I first want
46:25
to throw to a question one of our listeners dropped
46:29
on X, at Ryan Robertson before we start our Buy
46:33
Sell Hold. He wanted to know what our favourite
46:36
games in team history were. A couple that spring
46:39
to mind, because obviously we're going through
46:41
a dark time at the moment. But there have been
46:44
better times and maybe Jack, I'll let you start.
46:47
I'll go next. Each of us like throw up a game
46:50
that comes to mind when we think of a great,
46:52
a great charges team win. Well, we talked about
46:56
it before. I don't want to take anyone else's,
46:58
but it's that two point conversion in Arrowhead
47:00
to win the game with Philip Rivers to Mike Williams.
47:02
What year was that? 2021? 2018. 28. Oh wow. Okay.
47:08
God, that seems like just yesterday. I was still
47:10
living in Melbourne. Rivas was a cult in 2020.
47:14
Gosh. But that was a game because I just remember
47:18
that we hardly, I don't think I'd ever watched
47:21
a game live where we beat the Chiefs. And the
47:24
fact that I got to share it with you, Alistair,
47:25
got me so excited that I ripped my top off. That
47:28
was an incredible win. I'll remember that until
47:31
the day that I die. Outstanding. Um, I, I thought
47:35
even in that same season, um. If you've taken
47:39
my one. Okay. You take that one. You take that
47:42
one. I, a couple under rate under the radar ones,
47:45
I've watched one on YouTube and this, I'm going
47:47
to go way back because listeners, we were only,
47:49
I reckon I could say I first really started following
47:52
the team in 08 or 09. So when everyone refers
47:55
to the 06 to 08 years, I was only just getting
47:58
into it. So I'd be lying to say I was fully into
48:02
the North Turner era. It was kind of the back
48:04
end of North Turner and Mike McCoy starting that
48:06
I really started being a passionate fan. But
48:10
I have watched a lot of highlights of the epic
48:12
in Miami from the 1982 playoffs, the 41 to 38
48:16
overtime win against the Dolphins. Chargers get
48:19
off to a 24 to 24 -0 head start. Miami has their
48:24
backup quarterback in Don Strock, who comes all
48:27
the way back. And I remember, I'm watching Kellan
48:30
Winslow have 13 catches for 150 yards and Dan
48:33
Fouts. And I thought that that's a cool era of
48:37
Chargers football, slinging the rock around,
48:41
nice unis. And I think even though we just lost
48:47
at Arrowhead, That first Brandon Staley year
48:50
one win at the Chiefs at Arrowhead. I think it
48:55
was like his third game as coach and it was just
48:57
the start of the fourth and Staley thing. He
48:59
never won there again. I think maybe Eloy Gilman
49:02
had an interception right at the end and we actually
49:04
won the game. I thought that was another one
49:07
that really kind of turned me on. But isn't it
49:15
sad? Like we're talking about 10 years, 10 years
49:17
worth of football and we've got basically one
49:20
playoff win to talk about or like, we're so excited
49:24
that Tony beat the Chiefs on Thursday night football.
49:26
Come on guys, come on judges. Eight years ago.
49:30
But back in that 2018 season, Al, I believe you
49:33
and I watched this one together. Traveling to
49:35
Pittsburgh had always been a troublesome venture.
49:39
Was this your one? Was this your other one? No,
49:41
Sunday night football, the Chargers trailing
49:44
23 -7 at halftime, staging a massive comeback
49:49
with Badgley kicking the winning field goal on
49:51
the last play of the game. If I remember, there
49:53
were like a few penalties, offensive penalties
49:56
leading into that field goal kick and we ended
49:59
up winning 33 -30, but that was a real heavy
50:03
win. Derwin did some good stuff. Yeah. Derwin
50:05
did a sick interception. Yeah. I was thinking
50:10
the, the wild card win against Baltimore in Baltimore.
50:13
That was my second one where we played all defensive
50:16
backs. Yeah. We played 95 % Gus Bradley had to
50:19
cause Kaisy and wife and Denzel Perriman. Yeah.
50:21
Denzel Perriman were all injured and we absolutely,
50:24
we pressured, we got to, there was seven, was
50:27
it seven sacks? I reckon it was seven or eight
50:29
sacks to Lamar Jackson. And then, and then Jack,
50:33
we, we walked into Foxborough the next week and
50:37
you and I watched that together. bombed. Yeah,
50:41
that's right. Might've been dudes like Sony,
50:43
Michelle and stuff kicking our ass. Yeah. Anyway,
50:49
buy sell hold. To be, to be a Patriots fan would
50:52
be lovely. I've got six games off the top of
50:55
my head. That would be sensational. One day.
50:58
All right. I'll start with a prop. So the propositions,
51:02
bi -week propositions. We do want to play them
51:04
out there. Yeah. So we need the bi -week as much
51:18
as the judges get into all sorts from a production
51:21
standpoint. Uh, Andy, let's start. Here's a proposition
51:26
for you, my friend. The NFL MVP award will not
51:30
be won by one of the current top three betting
51:33
faves, so it won't be Josh Allen, Brock Purdy,
51:36
or Patrick Mahomes. Ooh, I'm going to hold that
51:47
because Brock Purdy's on fire. I'm going to hold
51:52
it because, you know, we're six weeks into the
51:55
year, but there's a real chance that a Purdy
52:00
or an Allen could win that. So I don't want to
52:02
sell the take. That's for sure. I want to see
52:04
K9 start climbing up those ranks. Let's have
52:07
an RB. K9's 600 odd yards so far. Well, this
52:13
is a timely one, Jack. Brock Purdy is an elite
52:16
quarterback in the NFL. Nah, I sell that. I don't
52:20
think he's having a very good season up until
52:22
now. Highest ever career quarterback rating.
52:28
Highest ever. He's doing it for one year. That's
52:31
okay. That's fine. Uh, if he does it again next
52:34
year, then that no, in his career, he's doing
52:37
it for one year. Uh, no, I'm going to sell that.
52:41
I don't think he's, I wouldn't put him in the
52:44
Alan Mahomes tier just yet. Just yet. Elsa, Justin
52:49
Herbert is both the main victim of this offense
52:51
and one of the reasons it is failing. Buy, sell
52:54
or hold. Yeah, totally buy it. He was promised
52:57
the world in terms of scheming people open and
53:00
having past protection. He doesn't have that.
53:02
He's the most pressured quarterback in the league
53:04
again, but he's made mistakes I've never seen
53:07
him make, and he's not processing throws that
53:10
are wide open occasionally. He's never done that
53:12
before, so he needs to shoulder some blame. Back
53:14
to you, mate. The Chargers will win at least
53:17
five games before the end of the season. There
53:22
are 11 yet left. I'm going to sell that hard
53:25
because if it if it's more than five, then we
53:27
start getting a little bit of false hope and
53:30
false identity. When realistically, I think the
53:34
more the higher the draft picks we have, the
53:36
better. So I would like to say sell that place.
53:41
Yeah, let's let's just try and win like the last
53:43
three. Just lose out and then, you know, finish
53:47
the season on a heater and get ourselves a top
53:52
wide receiver. Actually on that now. Oh, sorry,
53:55
Jack. I was going to, I'll throw to you. This
53:58
is a really quick one. Uh, the charges should
54:01
officially rename the end zone, the restricted
54:05
area until further notice. Yeah. Oh, and three
54:10
was a bad stat line for red zone trips. Just
54:12
disappointing because we haven't been too bad,
54:14
uh, this year. So I'm going to sell that, but
54:19
not bad actually. From you. Al, a veteran alpha
54:24
wide receiver. A little for you at the end. From
54:26
you. Yeah, good humor for you. Piss off. I didn't
54:31
mean it like that. A veteran alpha wide receiver
54:35
is a must get before next season starts for the
54:38
Chargers offense. Yep, it is. Because we still
54:41
don't know if Ladd's won because now we've got...
54:43
real injury problems with him, and I'm very sure
54:46
now that it's not Trey Harris or anyone else
54:48
on the roster. Give Herbert a weapon, it could
54:50
change things around quicker than you think.
54:53
Back to you, Andy. One of Bo Nix or Sam Darnold
54:58
will get benched, even if it's temporarily at
55:01
some point during this season. It's a big call.
55:11
I'm going to buy it. I reckon Sean Payton's getting
55:14
so fed up with Bo Nix. He's got the least amount
55:18
of letters in his name for a quarterback in the
55:20
NFL with five. His average yards per pass attempt
55:24
is less than five. 4 .9. That's good. He's also
55:29
18 and three in his last 21 games or something
55:33
like that. Yeah, it's just... QB wins, baby.
55:35
Unbelievable. Unbelievable. Disgusting. Jack,
55:38
Jim Harbaugh doesn't have the tools within him
55:41
to lift this team back out of the doldrums. Oh.
55:51
I have to hold. I have to hold because good coaches,
55:57
which Jim Harbaugh is, there's no denying that,
56:00
that he's taken teams and they've been successful
56:03
in organizations. He's going to have to find
56:05
something within him to improve. So I'll wait
56:09
and see on that one. So that's a hold. Alistair,
56:14
if the season becomes zero and eight and zero
56:18
and nine, We as a podcast called the thunder
56:21
down under charges podcast must legally reclassify
56:25
as a true crime podcast. I'm buying the tag is
56:38
Kurt curse. My, my wife is a massive true crime
56:42
fan and I don't know if she's actually watching
56:44
episode of the pod. So maybe then she'll actually
56:46
watch us if we change the name to something true
56:48
crime related. So I like the time. And there
56:50
are some characters in the True Crime podcast,
56:52
isn't there? There's the old guy who's aloof.
56:55
Then there's Mike McDaniel sitting in the dungeon
56:58
scheming. And then you've got the innocent, innocent
57:01
Herbert. Anyway, it'd be fascinating. That's
57:04
really good. Far out. Back to you, man. Do you
57:09
want charges or non -charges? Go non -charges.
57:12
Choose your own adventure. Give me non -charges.
57:15
The Texans will make the playoffs despite their
57:18
zero and four start to the season. I don't, what's
57:22
their strength of schedule sitting at? That I
57:25
don't know, but I do know they're now two and
57:27
four after a good win against the Jags in London
57:29
and trading for Marv Harrison, Jr. Oh, he's selling
57:34
it just because of that. Well, I'll probably
57:37
have to say they won't make it or they will.
57:40
No, they will. They will that have to do something
57:43
historic. Cause what is it? Like 3 % of teams
57:46
only make the playoffs starting zero and four.
57:48
So I will sell that take. Andy, Andy, Andy, Andy.
57:56
Okay, so this is a bit of a joke, but I'd like
57:58
to hear your thoughts. The offensive playbook
58:01
should be reduced to one laminated index card
58:04
and kept in Herbert's ass. Buy, sell or hold.
58:09
Yeah, buy. Get it into him somehow. I want to
58:15
see some emotion. I want to see your reaction.
58:21
Yeah, you might get one with a few... He's laminated
58:24
paper cuts in the order. Okay. While you compose
58:33
yourself, Andy? Okay, okay, okay. Andy, do you
58:36
want Chargers or non -Charger? Whatever, dealer's
58:39
choice. All right. The Chargers will trade away
58:42
at least two veteran starters on an expiring
58:44
contract prior to the 10 November trade deadline.
58:48
Guys on expiring contracts, do you want a few
58:50
of them? Yeah, give me some of them. Mack, Dante,
58:54
Tomlinson, Tully, Perryman. Tony Jefferson, Kamani
58:57
Vidal. Herbert. Do if I say buy, do they have
59:02
to be on expiring contracts? Oh, no, it can be.
59:06
Okay. No. Okay. Let's go with two players. I'm
59:09
going to say two. Yeah. I'm going to buy that.
59:11
I think. Yep. Jack. Scott Matlock is a better
59:16
two -way player than Travis Hunter. I thought
59:23
you were about to say is a better player than
59:24
Alec Ingold. And there's a... There's an argument
59:29
for that one. Uh, no, Scott mallock is not a
59:33
better two way player than Travis Hunter. Clever,
59:36
clever, clever. I see Jack while I was watching
59:38
the game and he's looked at me and said, does,
59:40
does Scott mallock just make you feel safe? And
59:43
I was like, what? Like it's safe. He makes me
59:49
feel safe. Like, um, the fucking two little pigs
59:53
feel safe with their homemade out of straw and
59:56
sticks. 10 minutes and then the frigging big
1:00:02
bad wolf comes and knocks it over. Oh, okay Alistair.
1:00:08
This isn't easy, but I'd like to, there's lots
1:00:10
of unrest about where the team should be sold
1:00:15
and whether, you know, maybe they move it back
1:00:17
to San Diego, but split the charges into two
1:00:20
franchises. The defense keeps Los Angeles. The
1:00:23
offense gets sent somewhere quiet to find itself
1:00:26
in entropy by cello hold. I don't know if I understood
1:00:33
that one. I might've had too much La Chouffe,
1:00:37
too much Belgian ale. You're splitting the team
1:00:39
in half. It's a Mike McDaniel offense call, mate.
1:00:43
Come on. You've got 30 seconds to throw the ball.
1:00:45
Come on, man. Andy, you jump in, mate. Uh, Sal,
1:00:49
it's a ridiculous proposition. I don't buy stuff
1:00:55
I can't understand. The actual, the actual question,
1:00:59
uh, was in it is, should the Chargers move back
1:01:03
to San Diego? Yeah, absolutely. And if, if Kyle's
1:01:09
to be believed, our friend, we are 31st in cash
1:01:15
spending despite being awash with cap space.
1:01:17
And that tells you that there are the liquidity
1:01:20
issues or ownership don't really want to spend.
1:01:22
Cause just remember you can spend more cash than
1:01:25
the cap in a given year. Cause when you pay an
1:01:29
upfront signing bonus, I give you 80 million
1:01:31
today, Jack, the cap will hit that in increments.
1:01:34
for, if it's a four year deal, 20 million a year.
1:01:37
And it's pretty incredible. The cash spending
1:01:39
is so low compared to the cap space we had. Coal
1:01:44
surmises that for various reasons, maybe the
1:01:46
family is starting to run out of money. There's
1:01:48
been some inter -familial litigation and one,
1:01:53
you know, there are trends in other US sports.
1:01:57
When you start seeing this, these signs presage
1:02:01
some kind of sale in the next three to five to
1:02:03
six years. So dare to dream San Diegans. It'd
1:02:09
be delightful. I think the, I think the Spanos
1:02:12
still owe something like $345 million in unpaid
1:02:16
relocation fees that they're trying to push further
1:02:20
and further down the road. So, uh, I don't know
1:02:23
what would happen. I think the NFL might almost
1:02:26
make them sell if they were to turn around and
1:02:28
say, we're going back, um, down the I -5. It's
1:02:32
not the I -5, I don't know what it's called.
1:02:34
Al on that, the Chargers will never be successful
1:02:37
while the Spanos own the team. Define success
1:02:40
for my friend. All there is, winning a Superbowl.
1:02:46
Sustained success. Yeah, I buy the take. I think
1:02:50
ownership matters and I just don't think we...
1:02:52
I don't think we have the funds I think you can
1:02:54
throw money at it at the minute like with teams
1:02:57
like the the Walton family in Denver and those
1:02:59
super uber billionaires cronky I think you kind
1:03:03
of can even though there is a cap. For the accounting
1:03:06
reasons I said I think you're at a competitive
1:03:08
disadvantage which just makes the margin so thin
1:03:12
in a 32 team comp everything has to go right
1:03:15
to win it. There's only so many sandwiches you
1:03:17
can make. Last one last one from me and it will
1:03:25
Go to Jack and I will make it charges related
1:03:29
a nice little bow To tie up to in this episode.
1:03:33
We've talked about him a lot Mike McDaniel Will
1:03:36
still be the charges play caller when the charges
1:03:40
face the Patriots in week 12 That's the take
1:03:44
Yeah, bye I think, I think they're going to keep
1:03:50
him around. Yep. I'll buy that. I'll buy that.
1:03:54
And weirdly enough, Andy, last one for me. Tom
1:03:57
Brady is a good listen as a commentator. Oh,
1:04:00
I'm buying it. I'm buying it. He's loose lipped
1:04:03
as well. Drop some, drop some bombs. I actually
1:04:07
really like it. Yeah. I don't like to admit it,
1:04:11
but I do. I don't know. Okay. Actually I had
1:04:15
a different one for you, Jack, but I'll finish
1:04:16
on this one. Okay. Uh, the Manning cast is an
1:04:22
entertaining aspect to prime time football. It's,
1:04:27
it's a good thing for prime time football. Sell
1:04:30
it. I can't stand it. It's highly annoying. Yeah.
1:04:33
Boring, boring as. Yeah. I find it really, I
1:04:36
listened to it once and I was like, this is kind
1:04:38
of funny, but then it's the same stuff over and
1:04:40
I find it over and over again. Yeah. It's two
1:04:43
goofball brothers, successful quarterbacks watching
1:04:46
football essentially together. I think it's.
1:04:48
I think it's good stuff. Yeah. It'd be fun if
1:04:51
I was in the same spot as them drinking beers,
1:04:53
but I just find it kind of, it just ruins the
1:04:55
atmosphere for me. So I'm selling it. Yeah. You
1:04:58
do get a smaller screen watching the football
1:05:00
as well when you got their massive foreheads
1:05:02
taking up the left hand side of your TV. No one
1:05:06
needs that. You're right. Well guys, we have
1:05:09
made it winless to the buy. in season 2026 and
1:05:13
we really appreciate all of you guys for continuing
1:05:17
the ride with us. God knows it is very hard to
1:05:20
open up a music or an audio app or click on a
1:05:24
YouTube thumbnail to talk about Charges at the
1:05:28
moment but we find it therapeutic. We love the
1:05:32
banter that we have with all of you guys as well
1:05:33
so keep firing it off and I don't know, it really
1:05:38
depends on what you want to see in the latter
1:05:41
half of the year. Whether you want to see some
1:05:43
wins or whether you want to see the stock line
1:05:47
plummet further and all the heads roll. I hope
1:05:52
you all get your wish, whatever it may be. Enjoy
1:05:56
your bi -week. We'll be back. We'll see you next
1:05:58
time on the Thunder Down Under Chargers podcast.