Latest / Legally Brunette / Killer Thriller: Jharrel Jerome Says Playing Central Park Five’s Korey Wise Changed Him Forever

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Killer Thriller: Jharrel Jerome Says Playing Central Park Five’s Korey Wise Changed Him Forever · Legally Brunette

0:06
Speaker 1: Amy Robock and TJ. Holmes present Killer Thriller with your
0:10
Speaker 1: host Alisa Donovan.
0:15
Speaker 2: Hey, everyone, Elisa Donovan here and this is Killer Thriller.
0:19
Speaker 2: In nineteen eighty nine, five teenage boys from Harlem were
0:22
Speaker 2: accused of one of the most infamous crimes in New
0:25
Speaker 2: York City history, the brutal assault and rape of a
0:29
Speaker 2: jogger in Central Park.
0:31
Speaker 1: The case exploded across the media.
0:33
Speaker 2: The boys became known around the world as the Central
0:36
Speaker 2: Park Five, but the five teenagers, Kevin Richardson, Antoon McRae,
0:41
Speaker 2: Yusef Salam Raymond Santana and Corey Wise, always maintained they
0:46
Speaker 2: were innocent. Years later, another man confessed to the crime,
0:50
Speaker 2: DNA matched him, and the convictions were vacated.
0:54
Speaker 1: The Netflix limited.
0:55
Speaker 2: Series When They See Us, created and directed by Avad Verney,
0:59
Speaker 2: re visits the case from the boys perspective and follows
1:03
Speaker 2: the emotional, psychological, and devastating toll the wrongful convictions took
1:07
Speaker 2: on them and their families over decades.
1:11
Speaker 1: Today, I am ecstatic to.
1:14
Speaker 2: Say that we are joined by Jarell Jerome, who played
1:18
Speaker 2: Corey Wise in the series. The only member of the
1:21
Speaker 2: five tried as an adult and sent into the adult
1:23
Speaker 2: prison system. Darrell's gut wrenching performance earned him the Emmy
1:28
Speaker 2: Award for Outstanding Lead Actor in a Limited Series or Movie. Jirelle,
1:33
Speaker 2: I'm going to try to maintain my utter excitement at
1:39
Speaker 2: speaking to you and meaning you, because so before we
1:42
Speaker 2: even dive into this, I just have to say a
1:44
Speaker 2: few things first. I think that this film should be
1:48
Speaker 2: required viewing for every American And I am absolutely blown
1:54
Speaker 2: away by you and your performance.
1:56
Speaker 1: There are no words.
1:58
Speaker 2: It's so powerful, it's heartbringing, it's excruciating to watch. You're
2:02
Speaker 2: just like otherworldly in this and I remember watching this
2:06
Speaker 2: the first time and it's like I was speechless.
2:10
Speaker 1: So bravo.
2:13
Speaker 3: Wow, thank you. That's a good way to start my
2:16
Speaker 3: day right there.
2:17
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm like, I'm here for you.
2:19
Speaker 2: I'll be the ahead of your you know, one of
2:22
Speaker 2: those things your you know, your popularity group, you know
2:26
Speaker 2: what I mean.
2:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, But thank you.
2:30
Speaker 3: Thank you for having me, you know, not the easiest
2:33
Speaker 3: conversation to have, but so important. And I think you're right.
2:37
Speaker 3: Required viewing for this is absolutely correct. It's one of
2:42
Speaker 3: those stories that will never sort of get old, you know,
2:47
Speaker 3: comes and it comes and comes again.
2:48
Speaker 2: So yeah, yep, I you know, I, as I said,
2:52
Speaker 2: I just watched it again and I just it's like
2:56
Speaker 2: it is. You know, it's one of the most perfectly
3:02
Speaker 2: made pieces of art, I think and entertainment that I've
3:06
Speaker 2: ever seen. And we'll we'll get into all of that,
3:08
Speaker 2: but first I want to acknowledge that clearly I wasn't
3:12
Speaker 2: alone in my awe of you and this series, because
3:15
Speaker 2: you won the Emmy that year for your performance and
3:19
Speaker 2: when you were just twenty one, and I want to know,
3:22
Speaker 2: how did it feel beating out these like Hugh Grant,
3:26
Speaker 2: Jared Harris, Sam Rockwell, ma Hershela al Li Benicio.
3:29
Speaker 1: I mean, these are like heavyweights. How did that feel?
3:33
Speaker 3: Some of my favorite actors? Actually trippy. It's funny because
3:40
Speaker 3: it feels so long ago. You know, it was twenty fifteen,
3:43
Speaker 3: and you know that was before the whole world sort
3:45
Speaker 3: of turned into what it took, so feel was almost
3:49
Speaker 3: like a fever dream at this point. Yeah, to this day,
3:54
Speaker 3: it's the biggest accomplishment that I feel like I've you know, done,
4:00
Speaker 3: So it lives in this beautiful part of my heart
4:02
Speaker 3: right and I'm like, yeah, I did that, I did that,
4:05
Speaker 3: and so but it's I put it in a box
4:08
Speaker 3: a while ago because I'm ready for what's next and
4:12
Speaker 3: sort of continue to like plant my feet in the industry.
4:14
Speaker 3: And it's a hard thing to do. So yeah, I
4:18
Speaker 3: got spoiled. So it's like, here's the edite, but yeah,
4:23
Speaker 3: it doesn't end there, so.
4:24
Speaker 2: Right, right, So before this came along, how much did
4:27
Speaker 2: you actually know about the Central Park five.
4:30
Speaker 1: I know you grew up in New York.
4:33
Speaker 3: Not much. I grew up in New York. So it
4:35
Speaker 3: was sort of like a cautious tale that we'd hear,
4:38
Speaker 3: be careful if the police abide by the rules and
4:42
Speaker 3: all of that. But the actual details of what those
4:45
Speaker 3: men went through and what Corey Why specifically went through,
4:48
Speaker 3: I didn't know until I really dove deep into the project.
4:52
Speaker 3: I got to meet them and spend time with all
4:54
Speaker 3: of them. It was then when I realized that this
4:59
Speaker 3: is so much bigger than me, and this this is
5:01
Speaker 3: a story about all of us, not just Corey.
5:07
Speaker 1: Yeah. I feel like the first episode really.
5:11
Speaker 2: Reveals and highlights that there are conversations that black and
5:14
Speaker 2: brown families and parents of black and brown children have
5:18
Speaker 2: to have that white families just simply never have.
5:20
Speaker 1: To think about, and you know that sort of that that.
5:26
Speaker 2: In and of itself is so vital I think for
5:30
Speaker 2: people to really understand.
5:32
Speaker 1: So did you did that really hit home for you
5:35
Speaker 1: in that way?
5:37
Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, absolutely. I mean growing up being a good
5:39
Speaker 3: kid didn't matter much when you went out into the street.
5:42
Speaker 3: You know, I grew up with strict parents, So I
5:45
Speaker 3: grew up a really good kid and went to church
5:47
Speaker 3: and everything, but it didn't mean much when you were
5:51
Speaker 3: crossing the street and a police officer was looking at you,
5:54
Speaker 3: walk out of a store, and you may look like
5:56
Speaker 3: somebody else, and it's a tail as old as time.
6:00
Speaker 3: I'm at this point and it's sad to think that
6:04
Speaker 3: this came out in twenty nineteen and we can still
6:06
Speaker 3: mirror it today in twenty twenty six, and how similar
6:09
Speaker 3: it is. But yeah, it's one of those things where
6:13
Speaker 3: black and brown boys and girls today still growing up
6:16
Speaker 3: are dealing with that circumstance. It's the beauty of when
6:19
Speaker 3: they see It's the beauty of the art showing us
6:21
Speaker 3: and putting the mirror up to our face so we
6:23
Speaker 3: can see what's going on.
6:25
Speaker 1: Yep, Yep.
6:26
Speaker 2: I've several people that I've spoken to on this podcast
6:30
Speaker 2: about that idea that oftentimes we can digest things in
6:37
Speaker 2: a different way through story as opposed to just you know,
6:40
Speaker 2: reading it in the paper. There's something I mean, both
6:43
Speaker 2: are very important, but that you know, storytelling could sometimes
6:47
Speaker 2: open up people's hearts in a different way to really
6:52
Speaker 2: feeling what you know, having empathy in some way.
6:56
Speaker 3: Absolutely artist medicine, it really is, and create it like this,
7:03
Speaker 3: It's truly medicine. Yeah, yep.
7:06
Speaker 2: So you've spoken about meeting and getting to know Corey Wise,
7:10
Speaker 2: who I just like this man's heart. I've never met
7:14
Speaker 2: this man, but when I just see his face in
7:16
Speaker 2: a photo when he's talking, he's not talking, like, I
7:20
Speaker 2: just feel this man's spirit and his heart. It's like unbelievable.
7:25
Speaker 2: So what struck you most about him when you first met.
7:29
Speaker 3: Him Exactly what you just said. I mean, you can
7:32
Speaker 3: see a photo of him and you feel his energy,
7:35
Speaker 3: you can see it through his eyes, his smile. You
7:38
Speaker 3: also just know he's overcome so much. Just from one
7:41
Speaker 3: look at his face, you can see the fight that
7:43
Speaker 3: he has, that he is the champion of that fight.
7:46
Speaker 3: And for me, meeting him just reminded me that those
7:50
Speaker 3: little things that I complain about or those little things
7:53
Speaker 3: I feel worried about just don't matter at all. People
7:57
Speaker 3: have gone through so much worse and come out the
7:59
Speaker 3: other side so much better. And seeing Corey, I mean,
8:03
Speaker 3: I watched Corey go up to a police officer and
8:05
Speaker 3: hug him and say, what's up, man, how you doing?
8:08
Speaker 3: You would think who go through that, spend the rest
8:11
Speaker 3: of his life having a vengeance against cops, And this
8:13
Speaker 3: man actually loves them and loves anybody he meets because
8:17
Speaker 3: he appreciates life in a way that we will never
8:20
Speaker 3: ever understand. And as an actor, I had to sort
8:23
Speaker 3: of realize that, like, oh, I'm late, I'm embodying you,
8:28
Speaker 3: but I could never have gone through what you went
8:30
Speaker 3: through and stand here today smiling and making everybody around
8:34
Speaker 3: you feel loved and comfortable. You know, he feel like
8:38
Speaker 3: you may want to walk on eggshells around somebody who's
8:41
Speaker 3: been through an experience like that, but with him you
8:44
Speaker 3: forget any of that happened. And he's just the brightest
8:48
Speaker 3: so and very funny, very funny.
8:51
Speaker 1: Yeah, one of that I loved.
8:53
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't want to skip to the end
8:54
Speaker 2: of the series, but just for a second, it's so
8:57
Speaker 2: powerful that Ava chose to have each of those men
9:02
Speaker 2: be look directly into the camera and you see and
9:06
Speaker 2: feel that it's like one of the best endings to something.
9:11
Speaker 3: I'm gonna lie. I haven't seen it in so long
9:13
Speaker 3: because it hurts to watch, but you mentioned just yeah,
9:17
Speaker 3: put it right back into my chest. Yeah. That those
9:20
Speaker 3: frames side by side, seeing them with the music as
9:24
Speaker 3: well in the school, so emotional and it's just so deserved.
9:29
Speaker 3: I think it was a very clever addition. Instead of it,
9:34
Speaker 3: you know, we finish a biopic and you just see
9:37
Speaker 3: a set of words that say, you know, they went
9:40
Speaker 3: on to do this or this happened. But instead of
9:42
Speaker 3: the words, you really look at their face and their
9:44
Speaker 3: eyes and the project's called when they see it, So
9:46
Speaker 3: we're seeing them after, you know, learning about them.
9:51
Speaker 2: Oh, I just get chills, like I you know, I
9:54
Speaker 2: feel like this industry is, you know, it at its best.
9:59
Speaker 2: It's quite no and really important, and this is just
10:02
Speaker 2: one of those projects. So let's talk a little bit
10:19
Speaker 2: about the actual case that he wasn't. This is just
10:24
Speaker 2: so impossible to metabolize that he wasn't even originally one
10:28
Speaker 2: of the boys that the police were after he went
10:31
Speaker 2: to the station with his friend.
10:35
Speaker 1: With Yusef. I mean that alone is just haunting.
10:39
Speaker 3: It's probably the most heartbreaking part of the story. Yeah,
10:43
Speaker 3: not only was he truly innocent and just having a
10:48
Speaker 3: night out with friends, he also wasn't even the original
10:50
Speaker 3: person chosen to go into the precinct. The police came
10:54
Speaker 3: in with an agenda and they grabbed a ton of names,
10:58
Speaker 3: and Corey wasn't on that list. His for you, it
11:00
Speaker 3: was and he was just being a homie. He was
11:02
Speaker 3: just being It's like when you see a friend in
11:05
Speaker 3: a situation and you swear we can get out of
11:07
Speaker 3: this in an hour. We can do this together, and
11:10
Speaker 3: we'll be hand in hand out of here, going back
11:12
Speaker 3: to the house and laughing about this in about an hour.
11:14
Speaker 3: I won't let you down. And that mentality caused him
11:20
Speaker 3: to be in prison for the next twelve years of
11:22
Speaker 3: his life, and to keep speaking on his character, he
11:28
Speaker 3: probably does not regret that decision still, you know, I
11:33
Speaker 3: think in his world and in his head, that sense
11:37
Speaker 3: of loyalty had takes over any other you know, abuse
11:45
Speaker 3: or any other jail time anything, you know. I think
11:48
Speaker 3: being a loyal friend was most important to him. But
11:52
Speaker 3: it is so heartbreaking because it's not only just an
11:55
Speaker 3: innocent kid, it's also a good friend who's just and
12:02
Speaker 3: he went in and never came back out, and that's
12:05
Speaker 3: what's heartbreaking. He also was older than all of them,
12:08
Speaker 3: so right.
12:10
Speaker 2: So he's the only one that was put into Rikers.
12:13
Speaker 2: I think anybody who even people who know nothing about anything,
12:17
Speaker 2: understand what Rikers is.
12:19
Speaker 3: You don't have to ye know about Rikers to know
12:21
Speaker 3: about Rikers. Yes, sixteen years old. He entered those prison
12:26
Speaker 3: walls at sixteen, and he's sharing a prison with forty
12:31
Speaker 3: five year olds, thirty year olds, twenty year olds due
12:33
Speaker 3: to a working out for ten plus years, and are
12:36
Speaker 3: violent and he didn't get in the gym a day
12:38
Speaker 3: in his life before he stepped into prison, and so smaller.
12:44
Speaker 3: I think he was about five six, frail and young.
12:51
Speaker 2: And that's what's it's so alarming watching those the interrogation
12:55
Speaker 2: scenes in the film, because you just see.
12:59
Speaker 1: How how young and small.
13:03
Speaker 2: These boys were, and it's like it's so jarring because
13:06
Speaker 2: it's it just reveals such a diabolical brutality that I
13:11
Speaker 2: can't what was it like shooting those scenes?
13:16
Speaker 3: Uh, to make a point, to follow that point that
13:20
Speaker 3: you just said watching young children go through this was
13:23
Speaker 3: so heartbreaking, and then complimenting it and watching their mothers
13:27
Speaker 3: go through what they were doing, that that's the story
13:30
Speaker 3: behind every young child's pain is their mother's pain as well.
13:34
Speaker 3: And so just seeing what those women were going through
13:38
Speaker 3: that day, confused, not knowing why their sons were being
13:41
Speaker 3: held for twenty four hours, it felt illegal, it felt wrong.
13:46
Speaker 3: No matter what they did, they were already they lost
13:49
Speaker 3: by the time they got there, And so that that
13:52
Speaker 3: I just wanted to make that a point and just
13:55
Speaker 3: just a shout out to the to the mothers that
13:57
Speaker 3: go through this, because they're part of the story just
14:01
Speaker 3: as much. Oh yes, but yes, shooting the scenes, you know,
14:07
Speaker 3: I'll be very honest with you, it's a weird thing
14:09
Speaker 3: as an actor, right because shooting the scenes the answer
14:13
Speaker 3: is incredibly hard and tense, and it pull that parts
14:17
Speaker 3: of my emotions that I've never experienced. And the other
14:21
Speaker 3: happening as an actor is like that was so fun.
14:23
Speaker 3: That was so that was enjoyable to be able to
14:30
Speaker 3: act as much.
14:32
Speaker 2: Yeah, to do something so meaningful, it's like we all
14:35
Speaker 2: want that, you know, we don't. That's not always the case.
14:38
Speaker 2: And I truly understand that. And it's like because then
14:42
Speaker 2: it feels like I'm you know, it's a calling to
14:44
Speaker 2: do this kind of work.
14:46
Speaker 1: It is as actors, and so when you.
14:48
Speaker 2: Get to actually feel like this is meaningful, this is
14:51
Speaker 2: what I'm doing the right thing.
14:54
Speaker 3: Absolutely I've been I've been very blessed in my career
14:56
Speaker 3: to have a few projects that feel that way. But
14:59
Speaker 3: when they see really really really tops it with the
15:03
Speaker 3: impact that I feel like it had. And so not
15:06
Speaker 3: only did it impact me as an actor. While I'm
15:09
Speaker 3: on set, I'm doing the hardest work I've ever done,
15:11
Speaker 3: so it's only sharpening what I can do, but as
15:13
Speaker 3: a person too, And like you know, I really cried
15:17
Speaker 3: a lot. I spent a lot of nights. I spent
15:20
Speaker 3: a lot of mornings waking up in really bad moods
15:26
Speaker 3: because of constantly constantly thinking about Corey and what he
15:30
Speaker 3: went through. And like I said, I met him and
15:32
Speaker 3: spent a lot of time with him. I mean I
15:34
Speaker 3: kicked it with him in Harlem Brad Pizza. We bought
15:36
Speaker 3: sneakers to get and so it started becoming personal for me.
15:40
Speaker 3: It started turning into oh boy, this is not a
15:45
Speaker 3: Netflix show anymore, where I'm just gonna get to do
15:47
Speaker 3: a show. I have a responsibility on me to portray
15:52
Speaker 3: this real life human who's become a friend to me
15:55
Speaker 3: now and who looks at me with like these bright eyes,
15:59
Speaker 3: like so prob. And you know, it breaks my heart
16:02
Speaker 3: because there were times where I would think, you know,
16:05
Speaker 3: if the roads were reversed, I'm the one who's you know,
16:08
Speaker 3: who was in prison and he's the actor playing me.
16:12
Speaker 3: That tripped me out a lot because we look so
16:14
Speaker 3: much alike. We're from the same city, we are very
16:18
Speaker 3: much cut from the same cloth, very close to our
16:21
Speaker 3: mothers and and things like that. So yeah, it would,
16:27
Speaker 3: it would, It would bug me out a little bit.
16:29
Speaker 3: But it was very incredible. She had a therapist on
16:33
Speaker 3: set for any of those hard for everybody in the
16:38
Speaker 3: cast and the crew. The days got so heavy, the
16:41
Speaker 3: nights got so long, and we're in we're in real prisons.
16:46
Speaker 3: Some one of the prisons we were in were actually active.
16:50
Speaker 3: We were shooting where inmates were in another section of
16:53
Speaker 3: the prison, you know, requests bathroom permission and things like this,
16:59
Speaker 3: and feeling that while being there was so intense. I mean,
17:02
Speaker 3: some people camera guys like I just want to course
17:05
Speaker 3: something and they're in this you know, intense environment, and
17:09
Speaker 3: so yeah, therapist was on set, and Able made sure
17:13
Speaker 3: that I had that sort of mental guidance and mental
17:16
Speaker 3: health take you off the rails too much, because it
17:18
Speaker 3: really got after a few weeks where it's like, wow,
17:22
Speaker 3: is there any joy anywhere? God, the joy came when
17:27
Speaker 3: the show came out. I'll tell you that. I'll tell
17:29
Speaker 3: you that.
17:30
Speaker 1: See, yeah, tell me did that feel?
17:32
Speaker 3: So?
17:32
Speaker 1: Did you even know? Did you guys know when you're
17:35
Speaker 1: making it?
17:37
Speaker 2: I mean, it's an impossible question because like sort of
17:39
Speaker 2: you're so in it.
17:40
Speaker 1: It's just you don't know what's going to happen.
17:43
Speaker 3: Pray always and you put in the work to the
17:45
Speaker 3: point where you tell yourself it's got to because you're
17:48
Speaker 3: working so hard on it, but you never know. I
17:51
Speaker 3: knew that the story was going to hurt. I knew
17:54
Speaker 3: it was going to be hard to watch, but I
17:56
Speaker 3: didn't think it was going to sort of cause this
17:59
Speaker 3: riffing conversation and this it actually allowed the black community
18:05
Speaker 3: to feel uplifted surprisingly enough.
18:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I read that.
18:11
Speaker 2: That's what Ava was one of her intentions that she
18:13
Speaker 2: wanted not all these men to feel truly exonerated, but
18:19
Speaker 2: to uplift people.
18:22
Speaker 3: Yeah, that last shot of the five boys with their
18:25
Speaker 3: hands up on a podium, and you know, it ends
18:28
Speaker 3: with this sort of triumphant and it's sad because they
18:30
Speaker 3: have their hands up. And what's what's sad about it
18:33
Speaker 3: is they still went through what they went through. You know,
18:35
Speaker 3: you can't take back from them. It's not like because
18:39
Speaker 3: they defeated the villain their hands because they overcame the villain.
18:44
Speaker 3: They they're still here today. And so yeah, that triumphant
18:49
Speaker 3: narrative was important for Ava because that's what happened when
18:52
Speaker 3: it came out were I was, I was pretty shocked.
18:54
Speaker 3: That was me. I think Ava was shocked too, but
18:57
Speaker 3: shocked in the best ways. And watching Honestly, he got
19:01
Speaker 3: famous watching Corey. Yeah he deserves, you know, twelve years incarcerated.
19:07
Speaker 3: In thirty years after the event, he gets five hundred
19:12
Speaker 3: thousand followers and people like, oh, we love you so
19:15
Speaker 3: much and really stopping him in the street. He's a
19:18
Speaker 3: celebrity in his neighborhood. And amazing to see now.
19:22
Speaker 2: I mean it's like impossible to even say how meaningful
19:27
Speaker 2: that is.
19:27
Speaker 1: Like, I just.
19:45
Speaker 2: So one thing that people still debate. I am not
19:49
Speaker 2: one of those people, but some people still debate how
19:54
Speaker 2: someone could falsely confess to something this serious. So, after
19:59
Speaker 2: researching this, did that make it easier for you to
20:01
Speaker 2: understand or did you already understand it before?
20:04
Speaker 3: Yeah, I did a lot of research on it to
20:07
Speaker 3: help me understand what I think I understand. You know,
20:10
Speaker 3: it's such a complex matter how police work and how
20:14
Speaker 3: they do whatever they do, because we can make assumptions
20:17
Speaker 3: and there's a ton of books of detectives who've gone
20:20
Speaker 3: off the job and you know, shared some secrets and
20:23
Speaker 3: right right, right, But apparently the situation and it's a
20:27
Speaker 3: muddy for me now because there's a couple of years ago,
20:29
Speaker 3: but there was a specific tactic that was legal and
20:33
Speaker 3: allowed in the New York Police Department that you could
20:36
Speaker 3: course a child without their parent around to speak it.
20:42
Speaker 3: It wasn't as much as I don't think it was
20:44
Speaker 3: as blatants like oh lie to us, But you can
20:50
Speaker 3: keep a child who's sixteen years old for twenty four
20:53
Speaker 3: hours without having them drink water or use the bathroom.
20:56
Speaker 3: And that's a tactic. The goal is to get them
20:59
Speaker 3: wearing down, to get their mental running, to get their
21:02
Speaker 3: heartbeat up and to get them feeling like they have
21:05
Speaker 3: to tell the truth. And so that sort of feeling
21:09
Speaker 3: was put onto these boys. At the same time, a
21:12
Speaker 3: narrative would share to these boys, and they know that
21:15
Speaker 3: if you share the narrative the way we tell you
21:17
Speaker 3: to share it, you're going to get out of here
21:19
Speaker 3: because you're gonna we're asking you to rat on other people.
21:25
Speaker 3: We're asking you that these guys in trouble. Meanwhile, they're
21:28
Speaker 3: telling the other guys to get that guy in trouble.
21:31
Speaker 3: And so they're all fingers and they're all going back
21:34
Speaker 3: and forth saying I did it, we did it, you
21:36
Speaker 3: did it. If you really really look at all the
21:38
Speaker 3: information and the evidence that they said, it looks like
21:40
Speaker 3: nobody did it. It doesn't make anything. There's no order
21:44
Speaker 3: to the events, there's no patterns. But all you need
21:47
Speaker 3: is same court to get arrested. Is I did it right?
21:51
Speaker 2: And then it's impossible to take it back right or
21:54
Speaker 2: it's so hard close.
21:56
Speaker 3: Case, we don't need to go further. He said it,
21:58
Speaker 3: they said it close, And for the NYPD, that's a
22:02
Speaker 3: big win. It was eighty nine, nineteen eighty nine. It
22:06
Speaker 3: was it was loud, It was messy, and the New
22:09
Speaker 3: York Police Department didn't like it, so that cracked down
22:14
Speaker 3: sort of, you know, and not to mention, Donald Trump
22:18
Speaker 3: put out an ad.
22:20
Speaker 2: So let's yeah, let's talk about that for a second.
22:23
Speaker 2: Because I so, I grew up on Long Island and
22:26
Speaker 2: I was moving into Manhattan in June of nineteen eighty nine,
22:32
Speaker 2: so here I graduated.
22:33
Speaker 1: So this is all very was very real to me
22:36
Speaker 1: at the time.
22:36
Speaker 2: And I so specifically remember the narrative that was being
22:43
Speaker 2: pushed there was first of all, it's unequivocal that these
22:47
Speaker 2: boys were guilty and they were putting, and I distinc
22:50
Speaker 2: I specifically remember Corey Wise and I remember Raymond Santana.
22:55
Speaker 2: I remember that their two faces because for whatever reason,
22:58
Speaker 2: I think they showed them more on TV or something.
23:02
Speaker 3: Absolutely right. They showed Corey, I believe because he was
23:05
Speaker 3: the oldest, and probably Raymond because he was Spanish and
23:08
Speaker 3: so they wanted to include the Spanish community in the fight,
23:13
Speaker 3: so that would make sense.
23:15
Speaker 2: And I remember as a teenager going, something doesn't match here,
23:20
Speaker 2: Like I see what the words are saying, and I
23:22
Speaker 2: see what the journalists are are speaking, but I see
23:26
Speaker 2: their faces and I don't get it, like, this doesn't
23:28
Speaker 2: make any sense to me. And then I remember those
23:32
Speaker 2: full in four of the New York papers, Donald Trump
23:35
Speaker 2: took out a full page ad calling for the death
23:38
Speaker 2: penalty for these boys.
23:41
Speaker 3: Which I didn't even know what the thing. I didn't
23:43
Speaker 3: even know you can kind of do that. It's like, here,
23:47
Speaker 3: send them to death. Put it on the newspaper, like
23:49
Speaker 3: uh yeah, yeah. It was the worst possible situation for
23:54
Speaker 3: these boys because not only did they pretty much confess
23:58
Speaker 3: to something they didn't do, the narrative around them really
24:01
Speaker 3: made them look terrible and then into something they didn't
24:04
Speaker 3: do didn't help as well. These papers were calling them
24:08
Speaker 3: animals and packs of animals they stay. Actually, if you
24:11
Speaker 3: ever heard of the term.
24:12
Speaker 1: Wild and like wilding, yes.
24:14
Speaker 3: Exactly, that was actually coined then for these boys.
24:20
Speaker 1: It's so I mean the media.
24:23
Speaker 2: So, first of all, at that point in New York,
24:25
Speaker 2: there was a lot of crime. I mean, one can
24:28
Speaker 2: argue these things like that, there was a lot going
24:30
Speaker 2: on in this city that people kind of there was
24:32
Speaker 2: a panic and they wanted things to be better.
24:37
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's exactly what it was. It was a clean
24:39
Speaker 3: up the streets mentality, this is getting bad and getting
24:41
Speaker 3: out of hand mentality, if I'm not mistaken. That same year,
24:45
Speaker 3: in the same park, there were plus thirty crimes like
24:50
Speaker 3: rape crimes throughout the year, and so not only was
24:53
Speaker 3: crime and issue, but specifically rape crime was becoming.
24:57
Speaker 2: Yes, well, then Mattias Reyes, who ultimately confessed to the
25:02
Speaker 2: rape and beating of this woman, had raped three other
25:06
Speaker 2: women after that in the same way.
25:11
Speaker 3: Including his girlfriend, including his own partner. Yeah, right, that's
25:16
Speaker 3: the tragedy of the story too. And the sad irony
25:19
Speaker 3: of the story is that these five black boys were
25:24
Speaker 3: put in prison because another black boy, you know, and
25:29
Speaker 3: breaks my heart to pieces. But the conversation just stops there.
25:34
Speaker 3: It goes beyond. It's like, it's not about skin, it's
25:41
Speaker 3: not about being innocent or being violent. It's just about
25:46
Speaker 3: being black, like being black in America, right, because the
25:53
Speaker 3: person who did it absolutely deserves to be in prison,
25:58
Speaker 3: yet he got to skate by somehow, right, while these
26:03
Speaker 3: boys really it's it's it's it's.
26:06
Speaker 1: A lot for my brain right now, to be clear.
26:09
Speaker 2: So for people that aren't aware, there was zero DNA
26:15
Speaker 2: of the five boys at the crime scene or on
26:18
Speaker 2: this woman in any way, and Mattias Rays DNA was
26:23
Speaker 2: everywhere everywhere.
26:26
Speaker 3: The story of how Matthias Rays came about too is
26:30
Speaker 3: pretty pretty Yeah. Let's yes, actually met Corey Wise in
26:35
Speaker 3: jail while trying to find God. He felt for the
26:40
Speaker 3: first time in his life, regret for the sins and
26:43
Speaker 3: he actually met Corey and told Corey I got you.
26:46
Speaker 1: So that's real. They cover that in the series, really really.
26:50
Speaker 3: Real, including the fistfight that they got into.
26:53
Speaker 1: It is.
26:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is the craziest thing. Corey Eyes doesn't have
27:01
Speaker 3: any scars on his face except for one under his eye,
27:04
Speaker 3: and that was from the Mattia's Rays punch.
27:07
Speaker 1: You're kidding of all that he went through and that's
27:09
Speaker 1: the only one.
27:11
Speaker 3: There's of abuse. In years of being punished in prison,
27:14
Speaker 3: he only lives with one scar and it's the one
27:16
Speaker 3: from the man who actually was the reason he was
27:20
Speaker 3: in there in the first place. It blew me in
27:23
Speaker 3: his brain when we found out. It's like, what, yeah,
27:28
Speaker 3: right under his eye. And funny enough, I have a
27:29
Speaker 3: scar as well somewhere under my eye from a punch
27:32
Speaker 3: when I was a kid too, So wow, it's it
27:37
Speaker 3: just adds to the triumph of his story. You know
27:42
Speaker 3: that what we showed with Mattias. Obviously, some things skimmed
27:45
Speaker 3: out and some things not, but yeah, it was very
27:48
Speaker 3: real that they met in prison and Matthias decided to
27:52
Speaker 3: confess to those murders, and I believe it was for
27:55
Speaker 3: the sake of getting Corey out of there.
27:57
Speaker 1: Mm hmmmm.
27:59
Speaker 2: And then they still well, you know, there's still which
28:01
Speaker 2: I don't want to give it too much airtime, but
28:03
Speaker 2: we have to. I think that the the DA, I
28:09
Speaker 2: think that New York City DA and the police department
28:12
Speaker 2: still claim the boys are guilty and Mattias was the
28:16
Speaker 2: sixth the guy, which is you know, if people watch
28:19
Speaker 2: the documentary, the Sarah and ken Burn's documentary, you can
28:23
Speaker 2: see how that is just, you know, systematically ridiculous.
28:27
Speaker 3: Some people were just always going to be as hardhit
28:30
Speaker 3: as so yeah, listen, I can't imagine why they want
28:36
Speaker 3: to backtrack on putting those boys in there, because they
28:40
Speaker 3: know they did wrong, and when you do wrong, you
28:42
Speaker 3: hate to admit you did wrong. But that's the point
28:45
Speaker 3: of the show, the world to decide who's wrong and
28:50
Speaker 3: who's right. And I think the overall constances, those boys
28:53
Speaker 3: deserved much better than what they got, you know, there's
28:57
Speaker 3: a lot of rhetoric online about the show. Oh so propaganda.
29:01
Speaker 3: Oh it's oh it's britty again. Oh it's this, Oh
29:03
Speaker 3: it's that. But those I've just truly believed those are
29:07
Speaker 3: the people who are too afraid to open their eyes
29:09
Speaker 3: and just stay and that sort of ignorance that they
29:14
Speaker 3: live in.
29:15
Speaker 2: I mean, accountability is a pretty like systematic issue in
29:19
Speaker 2: this country and in humanity maybe, but I you.
29:24
Speaker 1: Know, that's unfortunate.
29:27
Speaker 2: That's all for part one of our conversation with Jerrell Jerome.
29:31
Speaker 2: Next time on Killer Thriller, we go even deeper into
29:34
Speaker 2: the massive reaction to the series and what Jarrelle says
29:38
Speaker 2: still stays with him years later.