Latest / Chirping Zebras / AL IAFRATE | Chriping Zebras Podcast | Ep #98

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AL IAFRATE | Chriping Zebras Podcast | Ep #98 · Chirping Zebras

• Josh Dolan: Welcome everyone to Chirping Zebra's episode 98, the Connabadad episode. No, it's the Connabadad episode. Connabadad! Mark Riley virtually is lying side. You know Binda Jr. and Josh Dolan. And we are excited to come ⁓ to you today because we have a great guest. But before we get into that, let's do some, ⁓ let's pay some bills. We'll thank our sponsors, the Referees Crease, your one-stop shop for all your refereeing needs. ⁓ Also, Want to thank Damon Financial LLC for over 24 years. Damon Financial has helped families and business owners grow and protect their wealth with clear trusted strategies from retirement planning and investments to tax efficient solutions. They deliver no nonsense. Advice focused on your goals. Call 508-321-2101 today to schedule your meeting with Damon Financial or visit them at damonfinancial.com. And also want to thank Townsend Hockey. friend, Graham Townsend and Townsend Hockey, and we'll hear a little bit more about them in a little bit. I also want to remind you to like and subscribe on YouTube, smash that button, as the kids say, and also find us on the social medias, the Instagram, the Facebook, and of course, the TikTok. Thank you, Gino. And, you know, it's fun when you just get on a run, right? And I think we're on Kind of like a heater here with our guests. I think we are. Yeah, one after another. And last week, John Marasti, mean, is there a better guy than him? No. No. so hilarious. like, might be the most editing I had to do from stuff a guest said. Yeah, he didn't hold back. And he wasn't shy about it. No, but he's an old school. He's an old school, you know, he feels what he feels, thinks what he thinks, and he's not afraid to let you know. Yeah, so it's that kind of editing work. I don't mind. I don't mind bleeping and cutting things out that aren't supposed to get out there. But what pisses me off is the equipment. You know, we're loaded with that too. Yeah, no, he was awesome. And, you know, today's guest, ⁓ Legit legend right now. We've had quite a few legends on this podcast already in various sports this guy, you know, I don't think you were More excited for any other guests than than who he had on I told my wife the smart and who have it on and he goes get she goes get the fuck out of you while you're a saw five minutes in but whatever a market she goes she goes 1990 she said the year in the you know 105.2 and like boom, like still knows it. It was like a part of our childhood for Christ's sake. If you played hockey in, you know, early nineties, mid nineties, like y'all I afraid he was the guy. He, mean, you know, I remember more with the Capitals than obviously Toronto. he was with the Capitals those years, it was just, I mean, Those were good teams and the Bruins always battled them in the playoffs or like, yeah, I saw them all the time. Like Dale Hunter, like those teams like the Hatcher brothers, like those teams were awesome. So I didn't grow up watching those teams like what were did you guys like hate Al or was he like one of those guys on the other team that like you respected him? I didn't like Hunter. I always liked that. liked him. No, no, but Al was the kind of player that was just so iconic. Yeah, him and Al McGinnis. They dominated that time and their shot was so I mean, iconic is the only word that comes to mind in that you he was must watch TV. Right. And you couldn't hate the guy, you know, with the skull it and with the, you know, just the the his stuff and everything. Yeah. Everything he brought to the table. And like I said, when we were talking to him, he I wish he had a long career with the Bruins. When he was with the Bruins, you know, he had those injuries. only played, you know, he didn't play many games, not a full season. But I think if he spent a lot of time here in Boston, he would have been one of those guys that, you know, I mean, people loved him and he was only here for a short period of time. Yeah. So, ⁓ but you know what? We were lucky enough, Josh and I met him out in Montana. And, you know, he's that kind of guy that you just hit it off with. can't, you can't meet out. can't meet him and not, you know, love the guy. It's just, ⁓ that was cool. came on. Yeah. And, and, it was cool. doesn't do many. No, no, as he told us, he doesn't do many. And it was, I think it's cool. You know, the fact that like you, Gino grew up watching him, he was the guy for you. And now to come full circle and have him on your podcast is pretty freaking cool. Yeah. Wow. I'm talking to L.I. Brady right now. Right. I don't know how many times that came to my head. Yeah. That was like me talking to, I was struggling when I was talking to PJ Stock in the locker room. Like that was my, I mean, it's Jersey's right over there. I got him to sign it again and I was just. Wow. And PJ said he's going to come on, so that's a future guest. So. Hell yeah. And he's awesome. without further ado. ⁓ I think it's time that we take a listen to our conversation with Al Iafrati. Zebra on the ice bill. How did he get on the ice? They still can't get him off the ice. is crazy. Here comes all the Zebras. It's a zoo out there. can't do that. Doesn't matter. Get in the box. Welcome everyone to Tripping Keeber. Maybe we'll all embrace the Zebra side. Al Iafredi, welcome to the Charping Zebras. ⁓ thanks for having me. Looking forward to it. I know this has been a long time coming. ⁓ I told, I informed him that I already said earlier that I would go on, think like six months ago and then I'd get texts and then forget and text. I'm like, you got to text me like very, very often leading up to the last three days before we go on the show. I'm the same way. That's pretty much what I did. I gave you the daily ⁓ reminder. I get pulled in lot of you know. Only imagined. When you're a legend like you, of course you do. No, just doing chores around the house. That's it. Now, it's an honor to have you on, first of all, because... When I say legend, don't, I don't mean that in ⁓ any other way other than the fact that you are. ⁓ I want to get your thoughts right away. Cause we were together for the Bruins alumni game recently and you had some great takes on if you were a GM, changes you would make right now. Cause the NHL is obviously a little different than it was when you played. I, ⁓ I'm not a big fan of the participation Trollsbee point, but I do understand that, ⁓ you know, if you look at the, especially the Eastern, the Eastern seaboard of the NHL, like it's a dogfight, you know, there's five teams that are whatever, two points out of a wild card birth and then three teams that are two points out of being in first place. So I understand that for, for the media and everything like that for, you know, the fans, I get it. Like I understand there's different aspects of running a business and you know, since, ⁓ Batman's taken over the NHL has gone from whatever seven or 800 million to five or 6 billion. You know, it's, I get all that, but I look at, I was a player, so I look at it from an athlete's perspective in that there's a big difference when, ⁓ you lose a game and don't get a point. And then you look at the standings and realize how far ahead or how far behind you are. I, you know, I'm looking at it in a, in the, in the lens of an athlete. And I don't know, I just think the sense of her hockey is all about the sense of urgency. Period. I'll tell you the year of the lockout was unbelievable because of the urgency in the, you know, there was only a handful of games and every single game was, you know, meant something, right? Every game, every point matters. And that was, right. should be a GM. They love it. I mean, honestly, I, I've been saying shrink the season down, but you never got it because of the money. Once you have the game, that's, that's it. Right. ⁓ but the product stuff is from it. I think every time you expand the seasons and all that kind of stuff, more games and then this and that, but yeah, the year lock on. thought. Yeah, that was fun. Fun to watch for sure. I mean, I'm sure it was. I'm sure it was tough on the guys being, cause they were in the bubble and, you know, I think they were getting tested every day or every other day. So I'm sure there was a lot of, uh, a lot that went into that that we'll never know about. Right. Do you think the point system should change? No. In that, like some people have suggested three points for a win, you know, two points for a tie or however it works. Do you think that would change the fact that every game would mean a little bit more? I think every game means, I think the games are still meaningful. just, I don't know. I'm just, you know, viewing it from the lens of a, don't, I think, you know, three points, two points, one point, you know, it's too, to me, I like the two point, one point, you know, why and right. I mean, I get that you need to, ⁓ evolve and expand and, you know, change, but, know, when the wheel's not broken, I don't know if you necessarily always need to fix it, but it seems to have worked and, ⁓ you know, they like it, they're happy with it. So what I think really doesn't matter in my world. Well, it does here. Yes, it does. We definitely want to hear what you think. mean, it's, I would say drastically different now than when you played, ⁓ in a lot of ways and mostly in You know, the way the game is policed by the players, it's really not the same now. and it's not as physical. I know people are more skilled, but I kind of like that throwback hockey. I mean, even the policing of the game, Terry Ryan just told the story about you up in, ⁓ an alumni game and a guy shooting a puck head high a couple of times, and then you just stepped up and. You know, and you pointed right at him and said, you knew that was for I just watched that video. And that's like, mean, that's, that's to a point players policing themselves right then and there. Like you get them nice and clean, you get them with his head down and you absolutely rock them. And you know, the problem with, hockey is there's still checking involved. still big hits and you can't take big hits out of the game. Like you cannot do it. I think it's, it should be there because you have to clean somebody out. Yeah. I mean, I agree. If you look at. I mean, I guess the way everyone perceives things differently, but you know, if you look at the history of the game, you know, the fifties, the fifties red wings, they had skilled guys. were the toughest team as well. won all the cups then. Sixties maple leaves. Same thing. Seventies Islanders. Same thing. Or seventies Canadians, excuse me. Same thing. Eighties Islanders. Eighties Oilers. 90s devils, red wings, Anaheim ducks. ⁓ if you just look at, you know, the history of hockey, it's always been a skating skilled game. But I think, ⁓ if I look back at my career and the teams that seem to be the ones that were dominating always had, whether it was one of the guys in the pairings of D or one of the guys, ⁓ on a line. So that would put two guys on the ice out of the five all the time. We're like real deal rugged hockey players with skill or without skill. But at the end of the day, just how they kind of let them play in the playoffs. You know, when the big boys come out to play, you can really, you can really see the difference in how a team is built. And you know, you can even go on to You know, the Thornton hit when he hit one of the Sedin's, you know, when Boston was playing them for the Stanley Cup or when Jersey won. Yeah. And then when the first, and then when Jersey won their first cup, ⁓ Stevens, you know, had the big hit on the blue line against on Kozlov, you know, the series was pretty much over at both. in both points of both of those series. Like, definitely, and then you just look at Sam Bennett, you know, what that means to his team. And, you know, it's, ⁓ it's definitely always part of the game. And when a guy makes a big hit and they look around and no one from the other team does anything that basically gives the signal to some guys on the other team that may not be so willing to be that type of player, you know, they all of a sudden become a little bit bigger, right? And then it becomes contagious and then it becomes a wolf pack. And that's really hard to play against when, you know, every single shift, especially if you're a defenseman, you're going to get hit after you move the puck or hit when you get to the puck or hit, or, you know, it's just ⁓ the nature of the game. It's a physical game and Anyone that thinks that all skill is going to win is wrong. Anyone thinks that all toughness is going to win. It's a balance and you know, it's not an easy thing to do because I'm a believer that some most, most guys, there are the guys that are natural born leaders will say, but I think most people learn how to, and it's a, it's a, it's learned how to become a leader. If you look at most. instances in sports, people learn through their, through their, I don't want to say failures, I guess, excelling and reaching the ultimate in a sport. So you're learning all the time until you finally hit that pinnacle and, you know, guys learn how to become leaders. You know, just back to, you know, circle back on the question. I definitely think the game is totally different, but at the end of the day, I think the team that embraces that physicality is a big part of the game is going to do better than the team that thinks just skill is going to. Now we're a referee podcast. What do you, what do you, how do you feel about the fighting rule and how it's evolved since you've played and where it is now with all like the different types of, you know, things that are in there. mean, when I was refereeing the American league, like 10 years ago, I'll even you know, 12 years ago, it was a couple of pages. Now it's like three or four or five pages long with just different, different sections in it with, you know, fighting straps and instigators and it used to be a minor. Now it's two and 10 and all this kind of stuff. So like, like you said, you've got a big kid or someone takes a run at somebody, right. And puts them through the second row. And then I come in, you know, go and fight somebody. Now I'm getting 17 minutes penalties because I'm protecting my player from getting run. Like how do you feel as though that fighting rule has evolved over time and you think it's good? I'm not a big fan of it because there's really, you know, no deterrent to the crime. Like you said, where, you know, someone can two hand a guy. And then when someone comes to police the situation, that guy can just bail. then all of a sudden, now you have a, we'll say a top player that has been minimized or injured and your team is punished as well as having a player that's, ⁓ a key cog in your wheel, not being able to participate the way he would have been able to before the incident, right? You guys can tell I've been to court before with my big words, Yeah. You'd be a great politician, I'll tell you that. Well, we had John Marastee on our last episode and he talked about how the importance of fighting in hockey You know, there's a reason for it. It's not just senseless violence where non-hockey people think that. And I think too many non-hockey people are trying to make hockey rules. you know, I think removing or trying to remove that piece really changes the game. Yeah, absolutely. It definitely changes the game. mean, you know, guys have to be accountability in every walk of life is important. And You know, not having that rule changes the accountability. think that's what I believe. And I definitely think that fighting is part of the game. ⁓ it seems like they're trying to weed it out, but at the end of the day, fans love it. ⁓ teammates, they're the most beloved guy of every team. guys that basically, you know, basically put their bodies and everything on the line and their mind and their wellbeing on the line for their teammates. It's a different breed of guy. It's a different breed. Like, you know, for instance, me, I would fight if I had to, you know, someone whacked my goalie, my partner, my teammate. I would try and intervene and do the best I could. It wasn't really my job, but I understood it was part of the game. And when you're a young guy in the early eighties, whether you liked it or not, you were going to be doing it. at some point or another period. but you got to pick a better partner than Bob Probert. But yeah, you chopped my roommate, my buddy. Yeah. ⁓ you know, and plus there's just, you know, back then you played each other eight times and you played 11 exhibition games and most of your exhibition games were against. Most of your exhibition games were against division rivals. So you'd play them 10 times. then when you made the playoffs, you'd play them up to set. So you guys, you played each other 12 to 17 times a year. And there was some definite, definite rivalry going on. that, that's, uh, that was a fun part. Like how, how, uh, inspiring the rivalries were. was awesome back in the 80s and 90s. Yeah, Division Rival games are huge. ⁓ Now, when you came in with the Leafs, when you were growing up, who was that player that you looked to ⁓ that you kind of tried to model your game after or you just really enjoyed watching? ⁓ you know, that's... You know, I've been very fortunate. You know, I got to play a game I loved playing. I still play it to this day. And I had two guys I looked up to. Interestingly enough, when I was really young, like 12 years old, before when I was 12 years old, Boria Salming was, you know, probably the first European, we'll say superstar. ⁓ and he basically opened that door for, for Europe. You know, he, came over, he was a European superstar in the NHL. You know, he gave everything he had. bless him. Um, and then I got drafted by the Toronto Maple Leafs and the guy that I loved as a player, as a defenseman was going to be my partner. And then fast forward 10 years after that, you know, when I was 10 years after I became a pro, but in my early years, when I was 16, 17, 18 Ray Bork was like the young, was like the young hot shot defenseman. then In my 10th season, I got traded to the Boston Bruins and then I was on a power play with Ray Bork. So, I mean, it's pretty neat. I feel very blessed and honored to have been partners with those guys. You know, two of the greatest defensemen who ever played the game. No, you, ⁓ you bounced around a little bit, but I, I get a sense listening to you like in telling the stories in the locker room last weekend and stuff. Toronto really is your, your kind of, ⁓ I don't want to say home, but that's, you know, the team that you have the most connection with, if that makes sense. Where your heart lies. Yes. ⁓ yeah, I think, I think the biggest part of that is, well, it's two parts because they drafted me. And, know, I was the first, first round American, I was the first American they ever drafted in the first round. And people can say what they want about the Toronto Maple Leafs, know, haven't won a championship and whatever it is now, I guess it's what, 49 years? Being a Toronto Maple Leaf, if you love hockey, then there's nothing like being a Toronto Maple Leaf. If you like the limelight, if you like media attention, if you like and love hockey and you love everything that encompasses being a hockey player, like it's the hockey mecca of the world. know, and then, you know, like I was saying, you know, I was a Boston Bruin. Unfortunately, I was at a point in my career where I was on my sixth, seventh, eighth knee surgery. I needed back surgery. ⁓ I was pretty banged up when I got there. I had had some major, major injuries, but you know, it's the greatest hockey or it's the greatest sports town there is, Boston. It's the best sports town in North America. Agreed and Toronto is the best hockey town in North America in my opinion and that's not to slide any Bruins fans or anything like that, but Toronto, I don't know. How could I explain it? I was never a New York Yankee or a Dallas Cowboy, but I'd have to say it's like being one of those guys times 10. Yeah, I've heard multiple people that have played for the Toronto Maple Leaf saying it's like being a New York Yankee. Like it's just. Everyone's looking at you. Yeah, exactly. know, I loved that. It didn't bother me. I kind of, ⁓ I kind of liked that. liked, I mean, I was an impact type player, so that's kind of right in my wheelhouse. I mean, my wife traveled with me quite a bit in the American league. worked in, you know, up in Toronto and Hamilton and everywhere. Every time I went up to Canada, my wife was like, wow, it's different in the crowd up here. Like they understand hockey, they get it. Like they yell at the right things and they're educated and they know what the hell they're talking about. And Toronto was one of those cities that she was like, wow, I love the people. You know, they're just hockey people. And, you know, it's just, it's just fun when you travel in a different, different spots and, know, you get a different, different sense of where people are, especially like even in Minnesota, like that's another great hockey city. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, That's, mean, I guess that's where I think players that don't like being in a fishbowl. Cause everyone who isn't an NHL hockey player seems to think they're an expert. That's kind of, that's kind of the, that's kind of the drawback of it. But, you know, everyone's an expert, but it's, ⁓ it's still, it's still fun. You know, I've, I was just one of those guys I loved. All my teammates, loved everywhere I played. made the most of the situation. Really. That's all you can do. And at the end of the day, you're there for the, you know, who's employing you and the 28 teammates. I knew a team that's, that's why you're playing. No, when you would go through your injuries and the rehab and all that kind of stuff. And, know, was it that early, early nineties, right? it was like mid to late. Yeah. And so like. Do you think like nowadays you think you would have recovered a lot quicker with now with all the medicine and the technology? feel athletes about some way back way quicker, way stronger from, from injuries. Like you think that had anything to do it or were you just that banged up in hockey was that, you know, a hell of a lot different and your body took way more punishment than these guys do nowadays. I think I think it's, I mean, I think I probably, don't think anything would have changed. Like how my injury, like the injuries I suffered just cause I played it like 230 pounds. game was skit, my game was skating and being physical and shooting. Right. Um, I, and in the summer, in the, I think I would have. If I could have changed the way I trained in the off season, I think that would have made a difference. Cause I was a runner. I liked to run and in the off season, I would run all the time. That's how I would keep my weight down is running. And I was a 230 pound guy that was running, you know, five miles, six miles a day. Killing you. Right. Yeah. It's just, wore out quicker. That makes sense. But. I just liked it because I came to my second, my second year I came to camp in not very good shape. And I was, it was brutal. then I made a commitment to my teammates, myself, that, I was always going to be in great shape. So the running was a key component of coming to camp and being ready to go in great shape. And camp was always kind of easy when it came to. getting into condition because I don't think people realize back then training camp was a month long, man. Like, you know, you'd play 10 exhibition games. You'd have inner squad scrimmage games. You'd be on the ice twice a day. There was no, there was no ⁓ collective bargaining agreement that said after, you know, two and a half hours, the guys don't have to be at the rink anymore. They could have you at the rink for 10 hours if they wanted. You know, being on the ice twice, being doing off ice conditioning in between being on the ice. So, ⁓ you know, all those things come back into play from the previous question you asked. You know, it was, you know, and just my style of play. was one of those guys that, ⁓ didn't mind getting hit, you know, cause my mentality was all right, if I'm rushing the puck and I'm going to split the D, you know, I'm going to. two guys were falling and not me. You know, that was kind of the way I looked at it. Well, the running makes sense and that because when we were out Montana at Kevin Miller's house, me and Riley were in his backyard. He's got, well, I guess you would call it a Rocky Mountain and me and Riley were walking up it and we were both like, ⁓ my God, we were dying going up. And then Al just walks right past us and keeps going. He's wearing flip flops and shorts and we're like, he's... Oh, he had basically ran up the mountain and flip-flops. was like, I want to be like that. I actually did. climbed Camelback Mountain in Scottsdale with flip-flops on. Really? Yeah. I couldn't do it with hiking shoes. I couldn't do it with a gondola. I climbed them with my wife. I was like, I want to climb a mountain with a beautiful woman in flip-flops. I did it. Have you passed us too? and Riley were waiting. You guys disappeared. I gotta say, it's too bad when you were with Boston. You're muted Riley. Where'd you go? There we go. I think when you were with Boston, I wish you weren't at that point in your career, because you are a prototypical Bruin. Like I really think if you played for the Bruins more or got drafted by them, whatever, You are like a Bruin. I think I know you know what I'm talking about. like everyone loved you for the short time you were here in the, you know, the small amount of games you played. Not the owner of Kowloon. I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't saw, wouldn't saw your standup when I was there playing in the, in the warrior for life fun game against the Navy SEALs and the the ⁓ army guys and the Marines. And when we were leaving after the show, he's like, I know who you are. was like, you're fucking horrible when you were a Bruin. Should have asked for money back. It's hilarious. Yeah. I disagree. Tell me it was me a free meal. feel offended. If I didn't know you, I would believe that. No, I want the free meal because I was a little bit offended. It made my buddy Junior laugh at me. I'll get you that free meal. Or it's on us. One one way or another you'll get a free meal. Well, that's hilarious. is that is hilarious. That's Sorry. You told me I was fucking horrible. I didn't know. Why didn't you tell me that? I didn't know that. All the wrestlers and everything, they all go there when they come in town. ⁓ All the time. I still love them. I don't get mad. Awesome. That's hilarious. ⁓ How? So you held the hardest shot 105.2 and How hard do you think you could have shot the puck if you had a stick like they have now? That's a great question. I get asked that all the time. I'm a believer that The reason why me and Al McKin... Like it's basically from 90 to 2010, it was me and Al McKinness and everyone else was tied for last. And then you fast forward after that, it's Chara and Shea Weber, everyone else is tied for last. You know, it's been like four guys who have dominated that. You know, if Chara's well... I don't think Charles ever lost and I never lost. Like I never lost anybody. won the first one, right? Yeah. The original, the original one. Yeah. And, it's interesting to say that because, ⁓ the shot, I just believe that I was a skater, so I had, I could skate and, ⁓ I was 230 pounds. So, you know, there is some science. physics into that. I'm a bigger guy and I can skate pretty much, because I was always the fastest skater too, and I can skate pretty much as fast as 99 % of the people and I make contact with the puck and I have good technique and I have the right stick. know, unless I break my stick twice, the odds are I'm going be right in the thick of things. And my big advantage was that I could get that really stiff wood stick to really flex. if you just look at it in that context that I could make a stick flex more than most guys. Now fast forward 20 years with the revolution or the evolution of the stick technology. That advantage I had is gone because they can custom design these sticks to flex as much as you want. Right? So that big advantage I had, mean, I'm not saying I'm not, you know, disregarding that I had really good technique and I had a contrarian style that was a lot different than everyone else's. Cause you know, I would skate through the puck and I wouldn't be sideways at all. And I'd still be striding like I was skating in a race. And my foot would be point my front foot that I launch onto would be pointing maybe not directly at the net, but in the same direction as the net, rather than kind of turning sideways and decelerating as I go to hit the puck, which is what a lot of guys do. ⁓ so I was hitting it in full speed, just like a. You know, receiver catching a pass or a quarterback leading a guy into a pass where they don't break stride and they just got to put their hand out. same scenario. So I want to say that Chara's record, which is 108.8, that I would have shot 108.9, but we'll never know. But I'm not thinking at all that it would be incremental. think it would be kind of like a guy that Is that the 99th percentile that runs a four three 40 in the combine? Like, is he ever going to get down to a 3.7 40? Probably not in our lifetime. So I kind of look at it in that sense, just to be honest. If I think if I was in the best shape I was in and we could trans, you know, teleportate me like the fly into, into now. And me and Zidane know we're both, you know, we'll say 33 years old. I think it would be, I think it would be a really, I think it would be a great contest. And it's interesting you asked that because Zidane Ochar and I were talking about it. when Geno said I won the first one, the first skills contest was a whole different format than now where. ⁓ I was lucky. I was always an all star like picked as an all star to be in the all star game. But for the first ever, maybe the first two ever all star games for all star skills competition, they had the all stars, which were guys that were selected or voted in, but they also had each team would do a skills contest and then the top scores for the hardest shot. breakaway relay, accuracy shooting, skating for fastest skater, you had to qualify. each, you know, every team had a skills contest and then they had all the, you know, they logged everyone's fastest time, everyone's sharp shooting, everyone's hardest shot, breakaway relay for the goalies. And then the guys who did the best from each conference may not have been an all-star. But if the guy was just a flat out rocket on the ice, he was going to be the guy in the fastest skater. Cause we've all seen how that over the years just got worse and worse and worse where the coaches would pick this guy to be in the fastest skater. And he was like two seconds off the pace or they picked this guy because I don't know, maybe it was the coach of the all star team player that was there and whatever they put him in. You know, hardest shot and it would be a muffin or this goalie in the net for the breakaway really. And he's not really a breakaway type goalie. So you're not really seeing and Zidane Ochara is the one who said that to me. He said they should do it the way they used to do it when the fans, so the fans are absolutely getting the fastest guys, the hardest shooters. You know, why wouldn't you want that? for your fans. You know what I mean? Yeah, that's something that they definitely should do. And I kind of forgot about that, where it wasn't just the All Stars like it is now. Yeah. And then there was, I remember about five years ago, Elliott Friedman, he said, hey, you know, I put this out to the NHL. ⁓ put it out, ⁓ I asked them if... If ally Frady and Zinedine Oshara shot against each other, two shots with a wooden stick, fastest shot for each guy, two shots with a composite stick, fastest shot for each guy, combined score. I'm like, hell yeah, man. I'd do that in a heartbeat. Even if I lost, it's like the fans would love that, I think. Oh, we could have done it at this past weekend. I mean, you and Shara were both on the ice. I remember saying to Riley, I was like with With both your hardest shots, there's almost 300 miles an hour of a slap shot on the ice right now. mean, hire that. Fans would love that. Yeah. had to go stick handle and do all those tricks. go, I'd come see that more than I would see come hit stick handle and do some flips. What the fuck? Yeah. It's kind of like, uh, it's a power. It's definitely like a power trip thing. It's like the slam dunk contest. Yeah. It's like, it's like a, you know, a power rush type thing where it's just like. Okay, you think he can shoot hard. This goalie says you can shoot hard. You can shoot hard. This guy can shoot hard. That guy can shoot hard. Let's see who shoots the hardest, We should try and set up a zebra skills competition. have Charlie. That would be perfect. Right? Hell yeah. I watched, watching like the highlights of your slap shots, there's two that I really enjoyed. One, the slap shot on the breakaway, which will never be. uh, you know, will never be matched. And, and the other one was, cause now Kevin Stevens talked about this on the podcast. Blocking shots. Like he said, if I blocked a shot, was by accident, you know, and you lined up one, was against Pittsburgh and the defenseman literally jumped out of the way, out of the way of the shot and, um, and scored the goal. But it's just funny how that's changed too. You know, guys are always blocking shots now. And, and, ⁓ back then I wouldn't have gotten in the way of, definitely not your shot unless I was in a Volkswagen. Yeah. Guys block shots and, ⁓ I don't know. They say, they say the slap shot and it's not because, you know, I'm synonymous with having a bomb. say the slap shot is going away because you don't get it off as quick and this and that and blah, blah, blah, blah. I'm just telling you, man, when you're on the blue line and you've got a bomb of a shot, guys aren't as willing to block it for one. And especially now because the money, man, you block a shot, you your foot, break your collarbone, get hit in the face, whatever. Like time is money in pro sports. And, know, there are guys that are going to block shots and there are guys that aren't just like there's guys that are willing to fight. And there's guys that aren't willing to fight. There's guys that are willing to hit. There's guys that aren't willing to hit or take a hit to make a play. So all of those, all of those scenarios are important. And I'm a big believer that, you know, the slap, like, I don't know, the guy who scored the most goals in the history of the NHL scored how much, percentage of them on a slap shot? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, even though it's on a power play, the goalie has got to move across the crease and all that stuff. Same things with, know, you got a guy with a hard shot that can get the shot through. So it's a big difference on the power clay. And, know, that was one thing, my shot. And I'm not going to say cause guys were scared of it because lots of guys came out to try and block it. But I was good at, I was good at getting my shot through just like, especially now, I think it would be a lot harder now because. You know, even at the end of my, at the end of my career in the late nineties, when I had to get the puck. by one guy. You know, if I got past that first guy that was fronting me, there was a 95 % chance it was getting all the way to the net. Now, there's like a whole second wave of guys blocking the shots right in front of the crease, right? So there's like two layers of guys that are willing to block shots. So getting that shot through now is a little harder, but I think when you're on the blue line, That's the one thing with defense is you have a little bit more time to see the whole ice and you do have a little bit more time to get a shot off. You bring up the power play. You had some interesting points. When we were sitting in the locker room, I had the honor sitting next to you between you and PJ Stock and Joey Mullen right there. Hall of Famer. mean, it was kind of cool. But you had an interesting take on the power play now as opposed to the power play when you played with the personnel that they're putting out now. Yeah, that's just, that's just an old war horse defenseman. I think I said it and I'll say it till I die. It is absolute bullshit having a forward on the blue line for a power play. Unless it's Sergey Fedorov. Other than that, it's bullshit. And just the way I look at it is. A lot of these, a lot of the guys that are on the blue line. have made their career, their living, making points happen within 20 feet of the net. So when I've got one more guy, the whole thing to me, but I mean, I'm not saying I have a big brain, but I do have a brain. And the whole thing to me is why would I want a guy who has made a career, a living and helped my team excel within 10 or 15 feet of the net? Why would I want him now 50 or 60 feet away from the net when I've got one extra guy? Because hockey is all about one-on-one individual battles all over the ice. If you take any mistakes or mishaps, falling, unforced errors, 75 to 80 % of hockey is one-on-one battles all over the ice. And then it becomes a deductive thing where my guy won a battle. Now I'm trying to create an odd man situation against this set of players. And then I'm trying to create an odd man situation with this section of players towards the front of their net. Cause in the offensive zone, the puck always, I don't care where it is, it's coming to the front of the net at some point. If you can't stop, you know, if you can't stop the force. the puck is going to end up towards the front of the net. you know, having the one-on-one battles all over the ice. Now, why wouldn't I want my most skilled guy? towards the net where if it goes into that net, you get a goal where he potentially has a better chance on a power play to have an odd man situation. And then I'm going to rely on, you know, his, his understanding of the game, his thinking of the game, his skill to make the right play, whether it's time to pass or shoot. So why wouldn't I want that weapon closer to the net? That's just how I break it down. So you wouldn't stick Char in front of them. No, I mean, I would have Charro. would have Charro sending bombs. Yes, absolutely. Right. Like, they put them in front of the net. like, what do we do? That's just me personally. And I guess, no, I agree with you because I played D2 and like, yeah, I'm all for defensemen on the point. Yeah. And then, you know, and then you're, you're, you always want to limit. You know, hockey is a game of mistakes. You want to limit your mistakes to have a better, so you have a better outcome. The less mistakes, you know, the odds of having a better outcome increase the more mistakes, the less, the less chance of having the outcome you're looking for. So, you know, why would I not, why would I not, you know, want my best player closest to the net or a really good player that's a score right in front of the net or off to the side. Now you, we, we ask it, we're a referee podcast, right? So we ask everyone, what was your relationship like with the refs and was there a particular ref, you know, back in the day that you kind of connected with better and, know, ⁓ maybe got along with, so to speak a little better than, than, ⁓ the others. ⁓ or did you hate them all? No, I didn't. I have to be honest with you. I never ever. I don't know. I might've had one misconduct. you know, for not agreeing with a ref or having a confrontation with a ref in my whole career. I was always all about, you know, the refs, the refs are here to do a job and it's not an easy job because, you know, tempers get flaring, especially, especially back then, because, you know, ⁓ at the end of every, whenever there was an offensive zone face-off, It ended up being a 45 second wrestling match. Always goalie would freeze the puck. A guy would come up, whack the goalie. Now I'm the defenseman. I've got to grab that guy. This, my partner's got to make sure the guy that's coming in doesn't grab that guy. And then the defenseman on the other team are at the blue line. I better get in there and make sure no one gets hurt. And then it ends up being, it was fucking exhausting, man. Like you had to play the shift and then there was a 45 second wrestling match. for every offensive zone face off. was unbelievable, but it was fun. I loved it. But back to the referees, I mean, I always had great relationships with the refs. I think all the refs liked me and I liked all of them, but I would say Leon Stickle. yeah, because he was a big man and he was strong. And I think he saved me a lot of times from a bigger punishing that I would have got because he knew that he knew that I would fight and I would fight. a tough guy on the other team because I was a bigger guy. mean, but he, think he, he knew that my role wasn't fighting. Right. He liked his dark. Yeah. He liked the smoke. Yeah. That's why we connected. Yeah. He's too revised me in the American league. He was excellent. Yeah. He's an awesome dude. Yeah. Great guy. ⁓ it was. Yeah. No, it's, it's funny cause, ⁓ that when you went after Eisenman. And I'm not saying you went after him. He slashed you on the arm pretty good and you popped him. That was kind of like what you just said. If you watch that, like if I watch that again, I can see the linesman getting right in there and being, cause Probert came after you and it was, the linesman got right in there. Like, you know, he, like, Eisenman deserved the punch in the face, cause the way he slashed you. So. Yeah. But I mean, that's, I think that's. You know, it's all part of the game. It's exactly, it goes back to the first question about the instigator, right? Right. You know, it was like, ⁓ the whole, the whole from the, I think even the policing that happens, I think even the refs with the whole instigator thing are all part of the process, right? Yes. So everyone on the ice understands the importance of. the game being policed within itself, right? And we always hear as referees like, you got to protect this, you got to protect us and all that kind of stuff. And you know, they're right. ⁓ like if someone takes a run or something like that, we miss it. Like we're not protecting the players. Like we, need to do our job in, in, know, make sure that we're calling those for player safeties. And you know, cause someone takes a run, you miss it, you know, it's coming the other way. Right. And. It's just, it's sometimes it's tough to reel in, you gotta, you gotta make, make sure you get those in the, you know, the players get honest about it, which is, which is a good thing. ⁓ yeah, I mean, if you just look into it deeper, it almost seems like not having that instigator rule almost affects the ability for the referees to ref the game consistently. Right. You know I mean? Cause now there's a, a judgment aspect of it where the players. are out of the equation depending on, you know, what type of hit it is. You know, when a guy is skating to get the puck against the boards and a guy gives him a quick jab when he's four feet from the boards in the lower back, which could end his career or cripple him. It's like, at what point do you discern whether that's a penalty or not? You know, when it's one minute left in the game and it's a tie game or when it's a 6-1 blowout. Okay, now that's a penalty because the losing team did it. But when it's a tie game, it's not, it's like all of that stuff. And when that stuff would happen in the eighties or nineties, if someone did that to a guy, the guy would defend himself and there would be no instigator for fighting. Right. When I refereed, when I was down in the coast league to get an instigator from me, you had to really try. Because if someone took a run at someone and then got jumped, that guy should have got jumped. That was always my mentality. And it had to be one of those situations where a guy literally suckered a guy, and kind of for no reason, that they would get the instigator. Because you kind of have to earn that. At least that was my take on it. Yeah, I agree. I think the game without the instigator doesn't police itself as well. Two willing combatants, let them rock and roll. Right? Yeah. No out of bounds. Fans love it. ⁓ there's nothing better than a fight down south. I mean, that's what they came for was, was the fights and the beers. And that was it. The free cheeseburger when the team scored five goals. Yeah. Pizza, pizza, pizza, Now we ask anyone who played. I represented their country. did it twice, Olympics and world championships. What is it like to be an Olympian and, you know, represent your country? Cause we love to get everyone's take that actually, you know, that did that and had the opportunity to do that. It's a, I don't know. It's the best feeling in the world. You know, I love America. I'm proud to be an American. I just. My parents migrated here from Italy. My father got drafted when he was in high school and in the Korean conflict and became a citizen after, after he became a citizen after he was drafted into the army. Things have changed a little bit. And then, you know, He ⁓ came from a place that was occupied, when they left, Italy was occupied by Germany. You know, obviously the war had started before that. And then the whole Mussouini thing, then Germany occupied Italy. And that's when the family left there and came to America. And, you know, I heard it firsthand from a father my whole life growing up, what a great country it was. then... You know, you're an athlete and then there's the Olympics and you're, you're representing your country. And it's an honor to, I guess, we've worked that hard to be acknowledged for greatness. And just playing for that flag for what all the, you know, all the heroes. and the true warriors in life have done for us to be free, it's an honor, for sure. And that, mean, like you mentioned the warrior for life game and the face off of heroes we did in Montana where we, know, Josh and me and you originally met. It's, think that makes being a part of those kinds of things. So, much of an honor. Yeah. ⁓ it's like, I don't know. I can't even explain, you know, how it makes you feel that you're going to be with people that. literally put their life on the line so I can sleep like a baby at night and really not have too many worries. It's the ultimate honor just to, I guess, be in the same room as those men and women. You really can't explain it. It's just, it's ⁓ an aura of excellence around you because just understanding the understanding what they do for a living and how their mind thinks and how structured they are and how dedicated and committed to excellence and the sense of urgency definitely you know as an athlete there's a sense of urgency but just imagine the sense of urgency that they in their lives Yeah, it's definitely hard to explain because like when we came back from Montana and Virginia, I, everyone that I know, I haven't shut up about the Navy SEALs. Like I'm just constantly talking about them. And I brought one of my friends to the game this past weekend at the, at the Warrior Arena and finally got to introduce some of my people to the Navy SEALs. And then it was like, leaving there like, now I see what you're talking about. I was like, right? I don't know what it is. It's just like, you got to be in their presence to really... Everything you just said Al, but also I'm surprised at how like regular they are too. it's like, they're like the most humble souls you've ever met. It's unbelievable. They're my rock stars. always say it. You know, they're humble, accommodating, polite. It's who they are. Yep. I want to just jump back to the Olympics for a second because you were in 1984, four years after the big win. Was there like an added pressure to that or did you guys have any sense of like, we're the first teams into that big win? ⁓ yeah, there was huge pressure. You wanted to show the world that it wasn't a fluke or... That's the greatest sports upset against the odds. I don't know if there's another one like it. mean, there's greater comebacks and right. Every sport, ⁓ you know, but that one is, it's, I don't know. It's unparalleled in my opinion, especially because it's, ⁓ Not to say anything against individual sports, because I think they're probably more mentally tough than playing a team sport. you know, being on a team, I play, if I'm not playing good, they can put someone else in and my team can still win and we can still progress. Right. But like just the mental toughness that individual athlete has is unbelievable. But for a team sport to pull something like that off. where you were outgunned, outmanned, all of that. In one game, winner take all, and everyone has the game of their life is unbelievable. it was awesome. I still remember it to this day, man. We were, when they won the gold medal and they beat Finland. We were. playing in the state championships and I was a bantam. And the game was on a little, you know, was on one of them old school TVs that were like three feet by two feet that 200 pounds. There was a TV up in the corner of like the area behind the, behind the boards, behind the goal where all the, where all the parents stood. And when the game was ended, like when the game was ending, cause my game was at the same time as that game against Finland, everyone stopped even on the ice and we were all watching the game. I'll never forget that. That was cool. That's very cool. But the pressure, the pressure was everywhere we went. Everyone wanted us to win. Everyone was behind us. And, ⁓ we had played Canada and all the tune up games throughout the year. leading up to the Olympics. had played them like nine times and beat them like eight times. And in our pool, was us in Canada and whatever. And back then it wasn't, you can lose two games in the round robin and still get into a medal round or anything like that. It was like, you got there, you started playing games and there was four teams in your pool. You played three games. The top team from the four pools went to the medal round. And we lost to Canada. We lost to Canada like the first game of the Olympics or our first game, their first game of the Olympics, of that pools games. we had a hope for a miracle that an inferior team was going to beat them. And obviously no one did, but I guess the only solace was they made it to the medal round and maybe scored one goal. So the big red machine was back after the 80 upset for sure. think they just steamrolled everybody. were a little terse after 1980, weren't they? Yeah, and that was an interesting Olympics because it wasn't like the Olympics now where they have an Olympic festival that's like Studio 54 where all the athletes hang out and shit. It wasn't like that, man. It was in Yugoslavia. It was during the cold war. were armed guards or German shepherds with Constantine wire running around the fences. And they just advised us. Don't just go to the games, come back to your dorm and that's it. You know, so was a whole different deal. Yeah. A little, little different. Well, speaking of former teammates and when you just said German shepherd, it just reminded me. German. Did you play with Marco Sturm on the Sharks? I did. Yeah. What, what, do you thought? Marco's awesome. Yeah. He was like, it was, you could like he, when he was 18 years old, when I was in San Jose, he got him and Patrick Marlowe, they had two first round picks. Right. ⁓ San Jose did. And I know Marco ended up as part of the trade for Thornton, but Marco, you could tell like he was. He was a player that could have played in any era and excelled. He was just a strong, solid forward that could score goals. He would back check. He was a physical player. was a intellectual, know, intellectual intelligence towards the game. was a, you could just tell he was like wiser than his years. He didn't seem like an 18 year old kid. Was he an intense kid on the ice? he, whenever he scored goals, he just seemed like he was about to pop. Yeah. I he was, he was a wire guy, they're, ⁓ helped the team be a great player. It's funny. Cause as a coach now, when goals are scored, he's just zero emotion. Well, they're on a heater right now. Yeah. Leafs and the Bruins are on heaters. They just beat a good Detroit team. Yep. Yeah, Detroit's been on fire. ⁓ yeah. Bring up coaches. Who was the coach you enjoyed most playing for? ⁓ I'd have to say Terry Murray. Really? Yeah. Yeah. He'd come up to me in training camp. He'd shake my hand and say, Have a good summer. was like, yeah, you'd be like, have a good year. Then at Christmas, then at Christmas, you'd say Merry Christmas. You made the All-Star team again. If you're having a good year, keep it up. I'd say, okay. Then at the end of the year, he'd say, you had a great year. Have a good summer. I'd say, okay. I loved it. He just let me play, man. I mean, he talked to me. He said a few more words than that, I think I loved him. I think I liked him because when it came to me... I don't think I'm somebody who want to psychoanalyze. Yeah. You know, cause I, when I first got to Washington, they hired a David Poyle hired a psychiatrist and ⁓ cause I was going through some shit and ⁓ I think after one bus ride from Washington DC to Pittsburgh, think the guy quit after one bus ride is sitting next to me talking to me for four hours. So I definitely like the coaches that kind of just let me do my thing for sure. That's great. That's absolutely awesome. Well, we really appreciate you coming on, Seriously, it's an absolute honor to have you on and consider you a friend and be able to look forward to games in the future with you. Yeah, Definitely friends. Glad our paths crossed and can't wait till our paths cross again. Sorry, it took so long guys to get on this, but like, like I said, you're to have to like, can set my alarm. That's still doesn't matter. You got to like call me because I'll respond to, I'll respond to a text definitely in the same day. But if I'm supposed to do something the next day, you better hit me up the next day too. Cause I might forget. Let them drive you away. So just. I mean, seriously. Mark texted me Monday saying, can you do the dirty first instead of today? go, ⁓ yeah, definitely. I forgot we were taping Monday. Well, I'm glad it finally happened. I hope it was good. had an awesome experience doing this. I hope my questions or my answers were good. ⁓ you were ⁓ right. And you're playing hurt too. You got cut, you know, during the game. ⁓ Is that the, is that where's the, you missed another one? Is that where you see my eye? But I got elbowed in the eye by a Navy seal. I love it. Who can say that there was a loose puck. I went one way. He went the other way. I was that player. was a Navy seal. Riley lost a foot from a Navy seal. last year I got shot by a Navy seal. I took a, I took a clapper right in the ankle and I know. And from Chris Willie, who wasn't there this year, but he was in Montana, the giant biggest Navy SEAL I think ever. ⁓ He's who shot me. so we both have a tail. things are much cooler than mine. I just got a leg massage from Andrew Albert. So that's it. I don't think Albie wanted you to admit that. It was in center ice. But honestly, when I mentioned to Gino, ⁓ I texted him from Montana and I said, hey, I afraid he said he come on the podcast. And he was like, fucking shut up. No way. Like he was so fired up. So I mean, when I mean, come on, was 93, 94. I was like 10 years old, 11 years old. I was in my glory playing mini hockey, like, you know, take a slap shot to I afraid he like, yeah, you were the guy like I play defense like. I ran people over. I played like a maniac. Do you have a mullet too? I did not have the mullet. No, it's a skullet. I had the lines and the numbers and the sticks on the side of your head and all that kind of crap. Yeah, just... Anyone can have a man bun. Only real men have skullets. Right? Your lettuce was like epic lettuce. You know, was like not a Caesar salad, more like a Cobb salad, you know? A little bit of lettuce. man, it was like when you're, you, when you, ⁓ cause when I came into the league, man, I had like an Afro and then all of a sudden I started losing my hair and it was like the whole Samson thing. I'm like, ⁓ man, this is fucking horrible, man. I'm losing my hair and my strength is going, this is bad. ⁓ I don't think there's ever been another skull. Since you know, I mean, it a lot of breeds of rock to spell it, man. Yeah. You got to be either. You either got to have like. 105, 105 mile an hour plus slap shot or you got to smash watermelons with a sledgehammer like Gallagher, right? The only other spell it. Yeah, exactly. I'll take your clapper all day over a smashed watermelon, I'll tell you that. Absolutely. Well, Al, it's been awesome, man. We appreciate you and thank you for coming on with us. Yes, thank you. It's an awesome pleasure. I'm glad we hooked up, man. You guys have a great day. Al Iafreti, man. That was just, he's a legend for a reason. Absolute beast love love that we get to talk about the skull it a little bit and yeah there was one thing I wanted to bring up to him because when I was doing show prep and I'm sure you guys have seen the video as well they were talking about him and Chara on the Pat McAfee show and They're not only that I didn't bother clicking. No, I said nope. I'm not clicking this one. I'm glad I didn't know that you guys are bringing this up Not only were the shit they were saying about Al's slap shot saying they were like saying what it was fake and stuff and they but like they were butchering his name. I was like it's I afraid he they were like ⁓ and they were sitting on the skull it too. They were ripping on his hair saying who has hair like that. mean you were a kicker. You're a kicker. You kick the football. That's all he did was kick a football and he's talking shit about. an NHL legend who, you know, it's like shut the fuck up, dude. You know what was interesting about him explaining the even like the competition was like the technique, right? Like even the foot forward and the momentum and not stopping him like when guys turn that takes the power away like. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there was a science to it. Now, wanted to bring that up, but I didn't know if Al saw it or not. And I know there's some issues with showing like copyright video and stuff and. that it probably wouldn't have showed up on the software that we use because it's copyright. I wanted to, I just want to get his take on that so bad. wonder if he even knows about it. Right. And I would love to see Al go and kick the crap out of Pat McAfee and flip flops. Because you know that fucking Al could do that. You just flick him. Right. Just smash the fuck out of him because he's such a dick. Yeah. It was just kind of like the way Pat McAfee was like Smith's like breaking down that slap shot and like what it just seems like him watching hockey and watching Al take a slap shot was like a dog hearing a vacuum. There's just no understanding about what the hell was going on. was, you know, it's so disrespectful because if you don't know what you're talking about, you shouldn't be talking shit about it. Yeah. Which I know they got a lot of time to fill in the show, but like they just It just seemed like unnecessary, the way they were talking about it. And I know, like, he's our friend and shit, so maybe... I think I first saw that video, I didn't even know Al yet. We hadn't been to Montana. And then I forgot about it, and then I saw it, I think, yesterday, and I was watching, I was like, I gotta find a way to bring this up. Today was the first day I saw that, and I was visibly and physically pissed off. he's talking shit about not only a friend, but a legend. Yeah. a shot that at the time was un-fucking-heard of. And they were giving him shit for it. The puck being on the ice. They like, if it's on the ice, it can't go fast. What are you talking about? And they're like, ⁓ I saw the puck the whole time. It wasn't even going fast enough. saw the one of his comments was, I saw the laces the whole time, like it was a fastball. Like, dude, shut up. Just shut up. So I you saw the chara shot the whole time just because it went top shelf. You know, just because it goes bar Mexico doesn't make it faster. Well, I'll tell you what, if Pat Mack, if he hears this and is interested in fighting, this would be a fair fight in salty, right? You know, three on one. he does. He does WWE, doesn't he? No, probably because it's All right. But we got LeBron and McAfee coming at us. There we go. Yeah, we're going to have a we can do celebrity boxing itself. And we might have an angry parent too. Well, we always have those guys. Both of those guys can win win their arguments by just showing their bank accounts to us. ⁓ Well, that's true. I remember, you know, it's funny as we were in the the hotel bar there ⁓ this past Saturday when we did the Bruins alumni game and the bar is full of Bruin alumni, right, sitting at the bar. It's like a fever dream. Bruin alumni in all the Navy Seals. And it's like, you're in a room where you know, no matter who you fight, you are not winning. That's been my entire year. It's like when Biz took on those five guys or whatever. Yeah. They picked the wrong guy. Yeah, the wrong dude. While he's wearing his jammies or whatever, was just... Loving. Tuned him right up. Well, we want to thank Ally Afraidy for coming on. We're to blast with him. ⁓ also want to thank our sponsors, the referees crease, ⁓ also Damon financial LLC and towns and hockey want to remind you to like, and subscribe on YouTube, ⁓ follow us on the social media is the Instagram, ⁓ the Facebook and of course, tick tock. All right. ⁓ also chirping zebras.com. You can find out all the information you know, and our store, ⁓ completely updated all kinds of new stuff. So. Go and check that out. Get yourself a nice sweatshirt, t-shirt, sweatpants. We got it all out there. two of them. Yeah, so buy two of them. so check that out at chirpingziebers.com. And we also want to throw a shout out to AOA Studios too. Our boys up at AOA Studios, do such a great job and ⁓ we'll be back up there soon enough. So that's going to wrap it up. Episode 98, the Connobadad episode. Kind of a dad kid. Love it. For Tino Binda Jr. and Josh Dolan, I'm Mark Riley saying so long. We'll see you next time right here on the Chirping Zebras.