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Jeffrey Robinson - BOOK - Ash and Honor · Brian Thomas

• 0:01
  Speaker 1: 7-0-5.
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  Speaker 2: Here at 55KRCD Talk Station. 25th anniversary of 9-11. Everybody
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  Speaker 2: my age, of course, remembers where they were at the
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  Speaker 2: moment that happened. They found out about it. And a
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  Speaker 2: man who knows all about it, maybe more than anybody else,
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  Speaker 2: my friend Jeffrey Robinson. Jeffrey Robinson is a widely published author.
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  Speaker 2: He is the best-selling author, specifically more than 30 books,
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  Speaker 2: native of New York. He spent 37 years in Europe
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  Speaker 2: writing investigative nonfiction, feature journalism, short fiction novels, television documentaries,
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  Speaker 2: and radio dramas. He lives in New York City right now.
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  Speaker 2: Maybe he can comment on that. 25 years, fast forward.
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  Speaker 2: Zorhan Mamdami is now mayor of New York City, the
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  Speaker 2: epicenter of the 9-11 attacks. Jeffrey, it is a pleasure
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  Speaker 2: to have you on the 55KRC Morning Show.
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  Speaker 1: Brian, the pleasure is absolutely mine. I'm flattered. Thank you
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  Speaker 1: for having me on.
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  Speaker 2: The name of the book, Ash and Honor, The Untold
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  Speaker 2: 368 Minutes of 9-11. You interviewed a lot of people
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  Speaker 2: in talking with this, people that were directly in the know.
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  Speaker 2: For example, pilots and people in bunkers. And you've got
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  Speaker 2: an amazing story to tell. And I'm going to recommend
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  Speaker 2: my listeners get a copy of your book. We made
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  Speaker 2: it really easy to do that. It's linked on my
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  Speaker 2: blog page at 55KRC. com.
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  Speaker 1: Oh, thank you. Oh, yeah. Happy to do it. Can
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  Speaker 1: you ask them to each buy six copies? Yes.
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  Speaker 2: Jeffrey, you just did it. I've got a great listening audience.
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  Speaker 2: They may very well do it. Hand them out as
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  Speaker 2: Christmas gifts or birthday presents. This is not intended to
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  Speaker 2: put you on the spot, but I was thinking that
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  Speaker 2: you are a native New Yorker. This is your hometown.
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  Speaker 2: Clearly this was very impactful in your life as it
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  Speaker 2: was everybody else's, maybe obviously more so. Do you have
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  Speaker 2: a weird sense about Zoran Mamdami being mayor of New
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  Speaker 2: York 25 years after 9-11, which of course was obviously
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  Speaker 2: an act of terrorism by Muslim fundamentalists?
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I stay out of the politics of all
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  Speaker 1: this stuff. But let me tell you about New York.
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  Speaker 1: I was living in London at the time, and I
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  Speaker 1: tried to get back as soon as I could. It
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  Speaker 1: took me three weeks because there were flights canceled, and
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  Speaker 1: it was a whole mess to get back to New York.
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  Speaker 1: I got back, yeah, about three weeks, early October of 2001.
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  Speaker 1: And you'd walk down the street, and total strangers would
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  Speaker 1: walk up to you and put their hands on your
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  Speaker 1: shoulders and say, how are you coping? Oh, wow. Yeah.
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  Speaker 1: That's not a New York thing. No, it isn't. How
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  Speaker 1: are you coping? A year later, on September 11, 2002,
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  Speaker 1: I got on an American Airlines flight, specifically on the anniversary,
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  Speaker 1: got back to New York, and saw that New York
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  Speaker 1: was back to New York. Hey, who are you talking to?
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  Speaker 1: Are you looking at me? Who do you think you're
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  Speaker 1: talking to? It took a year, but New York returned
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  Speaker 1: to being New York.
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  Speaker 2: That's actually a very comical element on this very tragic
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  Speaker 2: remembrance day. Can you speak of, I know you spoke
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  Speaker 2: with the pilot in the cockpit of the possible fifth plane.
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  Speaker 2: I was kind of curious to know about this fifth
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  Speaker 2: plane and what that pilot had to say. So let's
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  Speaker 2: start with that.
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  Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm convinced, as he was, that it was the
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  Speaker 1: fifth plane. The man's name was Tom Manello. He was
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  Speaker 1: an Air Force pilot who was working for United Airlines.
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  Speaker 1: And in his right seat was a wonderful woman named
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  Speaker 1: Carol Timmons, also an Air Force pilot. who ended up, tragically,
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  Speaker 1: she died young. She ended up as a major general
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  Speaker 1: and commander of the Delaware Air National Guard. You know,
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  Speaker 1: these are pretty spectacular people. So he's sitting in, I
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  Speaker 1: think it was a 7-6, and he's on his way
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  Speaker 1: to Los Angeles. He said, good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
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  Speaker 1: We're pulling back from the gate, flying at such and
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  Speaker 1: such an altitude. Humidity is such, you know, the usual stuff.
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  Speaker 1: As he gets to the taxiway, Kennedy Tower calls him
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  Speaker 1: and says, there's been an incident in New York, an
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  Speaker 1: air accident. Fortify your cockpit. So, well, this is before
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  Speaker 1: the cockpits were fortified. So he looks at Carol and
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  Speaker 1: he says, look, if somebody tries to break in, you
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  Speaker 1: take the fire extinguisher and I've got the fire axe.
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  Speaker 1: You hit him with that, I'll chop him up with
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  Speaker 1: the fire axe. And then she says, let's take our
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  Speaker 1: suitcases in the little closet here, put them behind our
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  Speaker 1: seats and that will block the door from opening. So
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  Speaker 1: they do that. A few minutes later, Tower calls down
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  Speaker 1: and says, we've been told to evacuate Kennedy. We're evacuating
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  Speaker 1: the tower. You're on your own. He's sitting on the taxiway,
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  Speaker 1: and he's told, return to the gate. Well, there are
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  Speaker 1: a whole bunch of planes on the taxiway. But as
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  Speaker 1: they get up to the turning point to come back
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  Speaker 1: to the gate, from the plane, you can see the
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  Speaker 1: smoke rising over Manhattan. At that point, the head stewardess
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  Speaker 1: calls and says, Captain, we may have a problem here.
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  Speaker 1: There are four weird Arab gentlemen, young Arab gentlemen, she
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  Speaker 1: used the word weird, who are on their cell phones
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  Speaker 1: and they're getting very agitated and they want to know
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  Speaker 1: when we're taking off and why we're not taking off
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  Speaker 1: and insisting that we take off. We must take off.
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  Speaker 1: We must take off. Oh, my. They get back to
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  Speaker 1: the gate. He's worried about their safety and the safety
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  Speaker 1: of the other passengers. They get back to the gate.
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  Speaker 1: The door opens. These four guys disappear into the wind.
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  Speaker 1: The next. Next thing that happens is he locks up
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  Speaker 1: the plane, goes up to base ops and speaks to
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  Speaker 1: the United head pilot up in base ops. And he
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  Speaker 1: explains the situation. The next morning, the FBI comes to
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  Speaker 1: visit him at home in Connecticut. They spent three hours
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  Speaker 1: with him talking about the incident. And all he knows
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  Speaker 1: is what he told me that, you know, the stewardess
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  Speaker 1: and they speak to the stewardess and these poor guys,
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  Speaker 1: weird was the word she used. He is then told
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  Speaker 1: that his plane was broken into at night after he
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  Speaker 1: locked it up. Somebody got into the plane and there's
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  Speaker 1: a way in under the wheel well, there's a trap door.
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  Speaker 1: But you have to know it's there. Somebody knew the
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  Speaker 1: aircraft and knew how to get into the plane. What
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  Speaker 1: they were looking for, nobody knows. Well, we do know
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  Speaker 1: because in the plane parked at the next gate, an
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  Speaker 1: exact replica of the 76, United 76 parked at the
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  Speaker 1: next gate, The cleaners come in, and in the first-class
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  Speaker 1: seats where these four guys were sitting in the plane
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  Speaker 1: next door, in the seat-back pouches, they find four box cutters. Oh, no. Yeah.
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  Speaker 2: Jeffrey, I never heard that story before. Has this been
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  Speaker 2: reported elsewhere other than your book, Ash and Honor, The
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  Speaker 2: Untold 360 Minutes of 9-11?
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  Speaker 1: Very, very rarely. Now, one of the things, I wrote
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  Speaker 1: a number of books on financial crime. So I had
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  Speaker 1: some contacts at the FBI, guys I've known for years.
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  Speaker 1: And also I had contacts at the NYPD. So I
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  Speaker 1: made a couple of calls and I said, tell me
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  Speaker 1: about these four guys in that United flight. Don't know anything. Goodbye. Whoa, whoa, whoa.
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  Speaker 1: Hold on, pal. It's me. Come on. We've always talked.
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  Speaker 1: You've always been very helpful. You've helped me get information. No,
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  Speaker 1: don't know anything. Goodbye. Goodbye. No, what are you doing? Goodbye. Goodbye.
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  Speaker 1: That was the reaction from both the FBI and the NYPD.
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  Speaker 1: They knew something, and they weren't going to discuss it.
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  Speaker 1: The 9-11 report did not report this. And who knows
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  Speaker 1: where those four guys are?
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  Speaker 2: Well, you anticipated my question.
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  Speaker 1: I was just going to ask you that. I honestly believe, Brian,
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  Speaker 1: that that was the fourth plane because of the box cutters.
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  Speaker 2: Well, it sure sounds like it. Well, frightening revelation.
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  Speaker 1: And the break-in was to find the box cutters before
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  Speaker 1: the cleaners did. Wow. Okay.
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  Speaker 2: Okay. And moving over to yet another pilot, I understand
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  Speaker 2: that you spoke with a pilot on Air Force One.
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  Speaker 2: Is that correct?
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  Speaker 1: Oh, great guy, Mark Tillman. Yeah, I interviewed him for
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  Speaker 1: four hours, and we spoke extensively about what happened that morning. Now,
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  Speaker 1: George Bush was in Sarasota doing a photo op with
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  Speaker 1: some six-year-olds and first and second graders at a school,
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  Speaker 1: reading a story to them. And on the way to
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  Speaker 1: the school, he was informed about American 11 hitting the
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  Speaker 1: North Tower. While he was reading to the kids, Andy Card,
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  Speaker 1: his chief of staff, whispered in his ear that famous
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  Speaker 1: photograph that a second plane had hit the South Tower
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  Speaker 1: and that we were ostensibly at war. Now, the spin
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  Speaker 1: came out that the president contemplated the situation and was
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  Speaker 1: thinking of his options and didn't want to alarm the kids. No, no, no.
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  Speaker 1: He was a deer caught in the headlights. And you
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  Speaker 1: know what? This is not to demean George Bush. Everybody
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  Speaker 1: would have been. He had to digest this just horrible
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  Speaker 1: news that the country was at war. Now, two Secret
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  Speaker 1: Service agents, again, guys who never speak to anybody, they
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  Speaker 1: spoke to me. the supervisors, Eddie Marenzo and Dave Wilkinson,
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  Speaker 1: immediately said, we got to get the president out of here.
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  Speaker 1: Because this photo op had been publicized. If there are
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  Speaker 1: hijackers in planes nearby, they know where the president is.
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  Speaker 1: His location is known. So we got to get him
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  Speaker 1: out of here. They set up a special motorcade with
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  Speaker 1: special outriders blocking the streets to the airport with cars,
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  Speaker 1: as opposed to a cop holding up his hand to
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  Speaker 1: stop traffic. They called Tillman and Tillman said, I fired
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  Speaker 1: up my starboard engines right side for us civilians, which
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  Speaker 1: they never do. You always wait till the president's on
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  Speaker 1: board before you turn on the engines. They waited for him.
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  Speaker 1: He came up the steps. Soon as the door closed,
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  Speaker 1: he fired up the port engines, the left side and
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  Speaker 1: taxi to the runway. Now there's a report that comes
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  Speaker 1: into the secret service that at the bottom of the runway,
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  Speaker 1: there's a sniper with a long rifle. Well, they dispatch
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  Speaker 1: cars immediately. And Tillman says, I'm not going that way.
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  Speaker 1: Instead of taking off into the wind, which is how
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  Speaker 1: you get lift, he decides he's taking off with the wind.
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  Speaker 1: That's tricky, especially in a big plane like a 7-4. Now,
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  Speaker 1: that 7-4, the Air Force One, was lighter than a
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  Speaker 1: normal 7-4. It had bigger engines. It could do different things. Still,
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  Speaker 1: you need some real skill to take off with the
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  Speaker 1: wind in a plane that big. He gets up in
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  Speaker 1: the air and immediately goes into defensive measures out over
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  Speaker 1: the Gulf. because he's told there's another plane heading towards him.
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  Speaker 2: Oh, geez.
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  Speaker 1: Well, you know, yeah, if a second plane crashes into
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  Speaker 1: Air Force One, they kill the president. Game over. So
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  Speaker 1: he goes into defensive measures and decides he's going to
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  Speaker 1: climb up into the clouds to hide. He's got no
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  Speaker 1: fighter escorts, which the president's always supposed to have. He
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  Speaker 1: doesn't have any that morning. And that's when he said
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  Speaker 1: to me, I told myself it was time to be
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  Speaker 1: Tom Cruise and fly this plane the way it's never
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  Speaker 1: been flown before. Holy cow.
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  Speaker 2: And all these decisions made on the fly with no–
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  Speaker 2: there's no.
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  Speaker 1: Game plan, right? Well, that's the thing. That's the thing.
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  Speaker 1: The 60-some-odd people I spoke to, mainly military and national
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  Speaker 1: security people, many of whom had never spoken before– had
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  Speaker 1: risen through the ranks of the military or the government
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  Speaker 1: and put into a position of command and control authority
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  Speaker 1: after 30 and 35 years in the game, put in
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  Speaker 1: that position to defend the country against the worst possible scenario.
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  Speaker 1: But that morning, the worst scenario was worse than any
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  Speaker 1: worse scenario they'd ever planned for. And it was all
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  Speaker 1: ad lib and it was all experience and intelligence that
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  Speaker 1: saved the country from further damage.
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  Speaker 2: That is truly amazing. The question burned in the back
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  Speaker 2: of my mind after hearing that for the very first
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  Speaker 2: time in my life. That sniper at the end of
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  Speaker 2: the runway, was that an accurate report?
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  Speaker 1: Oh, yeah. I should give you the end of the story.
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  Speaker 1: That Secret Service descends on this guy with guns drawn.
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  Speaker 1: Get down, get down, get down. He's a photographer with
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  Speaker 1: a long mask. Oh, my.
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  Speaker 2: Better safe than sorry. We all know what happens like
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  Speaker 2: Charlie Kirk when you don't pay attention to things like that.
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  Speaker 1: Well, what the problem became later on... A call comes
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  Speaker 1: into the Situation Room in the White House. Now, the
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  Speaker 1: president's in the air. They're looking for a place to go.
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  Speaker 1: And the Secret Service agent who takes the call, which
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  Speaker 1: is a threat to Air Force One, he phones down
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  Speaker 1: to the PEOC, the Presidential Emergency Operations Center, where the
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  Speaker 1: vice president is with the National Security Advisor, Condi Rice.
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  Speaker 1: And two people I spoke to sitting at the table
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  Speaker 1: across from them, an Air Force, senior Air Force officer
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  Speaker 1: and a Marine officer. And the Secret Service guy says,
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  Speaker 1: I just got a phone call. Angel is next. Now,
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  Speaker 1: that scared the you know what out of everybody, because
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  Speaker 1: Angel was the code word for Air Force One. And
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  Speaker 1: nobody was supposed to know that. And if a call
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  Speaker 1: came in that said Angel is next, it meant somebody
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  Speaker 1: might be on the plane. Well, they relayed that immediately
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  Speaker 1: to these two Secret Service supervisors, Eddie Maranzo and Dave Wilkinson,
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  Speaker 1: who locked down Air Force One in mid-flight. They told everybody,
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  Speaker 1: stay in your seats, let us have your cell phones.
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  Speaker 1: They took the cell phones, took the batteries out of
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  Speaker 1: the cell phones. They did a person-to-person investigation, said you
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  Speaker 1: cannot leave your seat, you cannot go to the forward cabin,
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  Speaker 1: you can't walk around, and posted Secret Service agents with
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  Speaker 1: guns at every cabin so everybody stayed put. They put
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  Speaker 1: a rather large guy with a gun in front of
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  Speaker 1: the steps up to the cockpit and really went into
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  Speaker 1: protection mode, high class protection mode, because somebody knew Angel
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  Speaker 1: was next. It turns out, we think, that the call
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  Speaker 1: came in about a threat. Yes, a threat to Air
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  Speaker 1: Force One. And it was the Secret Service agent. who
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  Speaker 1: knew the code word and was just repeating what he
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  Speaker 1: would normally say to another Secret Service agent that Angel
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  Speaker 1: is next. That the call didn't say Angel, it was
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  Speaker 1: the Secret Service agent who did. In any case, nothing
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  Speaker 1: came of it. Yeah, nothing came of it except panic
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  Speaker 1: and a lot of tension.
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  Speaker 2: Well, and obviously a tremendous learning exercise for everybody in
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  Speaker 2: the aftermath of all that. I'm sure training and protocols
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  Speaker 2: changed dramatically. The name of the book, Ash and Honor,
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  Speaker 2: the untold 368 minutes of 9-11. Jeffrey Robinson, the author
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  Speaker 2: with me today and us today, I should more properly state, Jeffrey,
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  Speaker 2: I could talk to you for hours, but we've got
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  Speaker 2: a book to read. You have sold a bunch of
• 14:12
  Speaker 2: copies already, I feel confident, man, because you just scratched
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  Speaker 2: the surface of what's in this book and revealing it
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  Speaker 2: really is. Jeffrey, thanks for putting it on paper, my friend,
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  Speaker 2: and I know my listeners are really going to enjoy
• 14:23
  Speaker 2: reading it, and I recommend the game.
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  Speaker 1: Brian, thank you so much. I really appreciate you.
• 14:27
  Speaker 2: My pleasure. Truly an enjoyable conversation. Get it at 55KRC. iHeart. com.
• 14:33
  Speaker 2: Get yourself a copy.
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: $ 7.
• 14:34
  Speaker 2: 20 right now. 55KRC Talk Station. Fast and Pro Roofing.
• 14:37
  Speaker 2: Get in touch with Fast and Pro.