Latest / Pod Save America / “Trumpism fuels a pandemic.”

Transcript

“Trumpism fuels a pandemic.” · Pod Save America

• 0:06
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:08
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:10
  Speaker 1: On today's pod, we'll talk about President Trump's Oval Office address,
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: about what the World Health Organization has now declared a
• 0:15
  Speaker 1: global pandemic, how his administration is handling the response, and
• 0:19
  Speaker 1: what Democrats can do about it. We'll also talk about
• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden's big victories on this week's fairly substantial Tuesday,
• 0:25
  Speaker 1: and what it all means for the rest of the
• 0:26
  Speaker 1: Democratic primary and the general elections. And Dan will talk
• 0:30
  Speaker 1: to Governor Gavin Newsom about how he's been responding and
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: the state of California have been responding to the threat
• 0:37
  Speaker 1: of coronavirus. If you want to hear more about the
• 0:39
  Speaker 1: global response to the coronavirus, check out Pod Save the World.
• 0:42
  Speaker 1: Here's a preview from Tommy. Quote, this episode motherfucking slaps.
• 0:50
  Speaker 1: These are just getting....
• 0:52
  Speaker 2: He was.
• 0:52
  Speaker 1: Go ahead.
• 0:54
  Speaker 2: I just can't believe you even said that. Like, I
• 0:57
  Speaker 2: read it. It was... And it's very off-brand for the
• 1:02
  Speaker 2: Pod Save the World pitches, which are very substantive and serious,
• 1:04
  Speaker 2: which are always like, how to solve a global pandemic,
• 1:08
  Speaker 2: what is happening in South Sudan, and why human rights
• 1:11
  Speaker 2: are the fundamental challenge of our time. On Pod Save
• 1:13
  Speaker 2: the World this week.
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Tommy was hoping, apparently Tommy doesn't think that I read
• 1:19
  Speaker 1: our housekeeping items ahead of time because he was hoping
• 1:21
  Speaker 1: that I would read it for the first time on
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: air and not know that it was there. But I did,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: and I kept it. Anyway, you'll also.
• 1:28
  Speaker 2: I'm glad we could do this bit from Anchorman.
• 1:31
  Speaker 1: Yeah. In that episode that motherfucking slaps, you'll also get
• 1:36
  Speaker 1: up to speed on the pandemic. You'll learn why the
• 1:38
  Speaker 1: Saudi-Russia oil price wars are rocking the global economy and
• 1:42
  Speaker 1: how Vladimir Putin might be president for life. So it's
• 1:45
  Speaker 1: a good news episode. Check it out. A few other
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: notes from us. You may have seen that because of coronavirus,
• 1:51
  Speaker 1: we are canceling the upcoming Pod Save America and Love
• 1:53
  Speaker 1: It or Leave It March tour dates in San Diego, Phoenix,
• 1:56
  Speaker 1: and Seattle. We are hoping to reschedule once we can
• 1:59
  Speaker 1: ensure everyone's health and safety. Full refunds will be available
• 2:03
  Speaker 1: at the point of purchase and ticket holders will receive
• 2:05
  Speaker 1: an email with more instructions. We are very bummed out,
• 2:08
  Speaker 1: but everyone's health comes first and we can't be holding gatherings. Actually,
• 2:12
  Speaker 1: when we decided to cancel it, we just did it voluntarily,
• 2:15
  Speaker 1: but the state of California has now said no gatherings
• 2:18
  Speaker 1: over 250 people. So there you go. On the plus side,
• 2:24
  Speaker 1: We will be doing our group thread for Sunday's Democratic
• 2:26
  Speaker 1: debate between Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders. We'll all be
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: doing it from home. So join us at crooked.com slash
• 2:32
  Speaker 1: group thread starting at 5 p.m. Pacific, 8 p.m.
• 2:36
  Speaker 2: Eastern.
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: So that's great.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 2:39
  Speaker 1: Let's get to the news. Donald Trump delivered a primetime
• 2:42
  Speaker 1: Oval Office address about the threat of coronavirus on Wednesday night,
• 2:46
  Speaker 1: where he made a number of policy announcements, three of
• 2:48
  Speaker 1: which had to be corrected immediately after the speech. Trump
• 2:52
  Speaker 1: said that he was issuing a 30-day ban on all
• 2:54
  Speaker 1: travel from Europe to the U.S., but the Department of
• 2:56
  Speaker 1: Homeland Security quickly clarified that the ban doesn't apply to U.S. citizens,
• 3:00
  Speaker 1: the immediate family of U.S. citizens, or permanent U.S. residents.
• 3:04
  Speaker 1: Trump then said that the travel ban would apply to
• 3:06
  Speaker 1: trade and cargo. The White House later said that was wrong.
• 3:09
  Speaker 1: Trump said that health insurers have agreed to waive all
• 3:11
  Speaker 1: copayments for coronavirus treatments. The insurance industry later said that
• 3:15
  Speaker 1: was only for testing. On the day the Dow Jones
• 3:18
  Speaker 1: hit bear market territory for the first time since the
• 3:20
  Speaker 1: 2008 financial crisis, Trump also called for the Small Business
• 3:24
  Speaker 1: Administration to provide stopgap loans to affected businesses, delayed the
• 3:28
  Speaker 1: April 15th tax deadline for most Americans, and urged Congress
• 3:32
  Speaker 1: to pass a payroll tax cut. So, Dan, what did
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: you think of the speech? Would you like to start
• 3:37
  Speaker 1: with your grade for style or substance?
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: Look, I want to be fair here because we want
• 3:44
  Speaker 2: to be an honest broker in the situation, but On
• 3:47
  Speaker 2: a rhetorical level, a political level, an economic level, on
• 3:53
  Speaker 2: a substantive level, it was an absolute fucking disaster.
• 3:58
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 3:58
  Speaker 2: It is without a doubt the worst national televised address
• 4:02
  Speaker 2: that any American president has ever given. It had the
• 4:06
  Speaker 2: opposite effect of everything he possibly could have intended because
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: he and his administration and his White House team are
• 4:13
  Speaker 2: two fucking stupid people. to do the basics of their jobs.
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: He stated the policy wrong, which then led to mass
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: gatherings at airports during a pandemic in Europe. We wake
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: up the next morning and the market has to stop
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: trading because it crashed so quickly because the president inspired
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: so little confidence in himself and his administration. It was
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: a disaster. He really just honestly needs to shut the
• 4:40
  Speaker 2: fuck up and stop talking.
• 4:42
  Speaker 1: We obviously don't agree with Trump on much. we have
• 4:45
  Speaker 1: different politics than him, but just from a basic nuts
• 4:49
  Speaker 1: and bolts level of like how to put together a
• 4:52
  Speaker 1: speech like that and roll out policy announcements. Like it,
• 4:56
  Speaker 1: the fact that he issued these three policy announcements that
• 4:59
  Speaker 1: were wrong, that they had to be clarified immediately after
• 5:02
  Speaker 1: it really does show that in case you just thought
• 5:05
  Speaker 1: it was like dumb Donald Trump and he had just
• 5:07
  Speaker 1: like sort of incompetent people working around him. No, no,
• 5:10
  Speaker 1: he has really fucking stupid people working around him. Like,
• 5:13
  Speaker 1: The idea that an Oval Office primetime address would not get,
• 5:17
  Speaker 1: forget about even fact check, like, you know, him lying about, oh,
• 5:20
  Speaker 1: the best economy ever, all this bullshit. Like, basic policy pronouncements.
• 5:25
  Speaker 1: Where was the policy staff? Why didn't DHS, why didn't
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: the Department of Homeland Security see the speech in advance? Like,
• 5:30
  Speaker 1: Stephen Miller, Jared Kushner were working on the speech. What
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: the fuck were they doing, letting a speech go out
• 5:34
  Speaker 1: with policy announcements that weren't checked? And again, it's not
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: like Trump is sitting there proposing his big plan for
• 5:39
  Speaker 1: the economy. It's a fucking global pandemic, an urgent health crisis.
• 5:43
  Speaker 1: The speech finishes. I get a call from a friend
• 5:46
  Speaker 1: of mine whose son is in Paris. And he and
• 5:48
  Speaker 1: his wife are panicking because they don't think they can
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: get their son home from Paris because he just said
• 5:53
  Speaker 1: no flights from Europe. And I had to then wait
• 5:55
  Speaker 1: and find that the DHS clarified it. And then they
• 5:57
  Speaker 1: calmed down. But you're seeing pictures today at Charles de
• 6:00
  Speaker 1: Gaulle Airport in Paris. And it's like mayhem and panic
• 6:03
  Speaker 1: because a bunch of people are trying to buy like $ 3, 000
• 6:06
  Speaker 1: tickets home because they didn't know that it didn't apply
• 6:10
  Speaker 1: to American citizens. I mean, and that's just one small,
• 6:14
  Speaker 1: tiny piece of how badly he has fucked this up.
• 6:17
  Speaker 1: It is unbelievable.
• 6:18
  Speaker 2: He did not have to give that speech last night.
• 6:20
  Speaker 2: He did not have to. He could have given it
• 6:22
  Speaker 2: tomorrow night. He could have given it next week. He
• 6:26
  Speaker 2: was basically living in a Fox News bubble about this,
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: finally recognized that there was some level of panic, and
• 6:34
  Speaker 2: decided to give a speech without having any idea what
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: he was going to say. And that is the worst
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: fucking thing you can do. You give a speech when
• 6:42
  Speaker 2: you have something to say. You don't say you're going
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: to give a speech and then reverse engineer a bunch
• 6:45
  Speaker 2: of policies so you have something to say. And when
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: you do that and you're already bad at your job
• 6:50
  Speaker 2: and have staffed the government with the dregs of the
• 6:53
  Speaker 2: Fox News green room, this is what we end up with.
• 6:55
  Speaker 2: And more people will be sick because of this. More
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: people are going to lose their retirement and their economic
• 7:02
  Speaker 2: well-being and their jobs because of this, because the president
• 7:05
  Speaker 2: opened his mouth without thinking.
• 7:08
  Speaker 1: And we should say, too, it's not just even the
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: policies corrected and clarified are not even close to the
• 7:15
  Speaker 1: scope of what's necessary to address this crisis. I mean,
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: he's talking about a ban from Europe for 30 days.
• 7:24
  Speaker 1: He accepted the United Kingdom for reasons we don't know,
• 7:27
  Speaker 1: even though the United Kingdom has more cases of coronavirus
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: than any of the other European countries outside of Italy
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: or any of the countries that are part of the ban.
• 7:36
  Speaker 1: So Also, it doesn't address the fact that we probably
• 7:40
  Speaker 1: have more cases in this country and he never addressed testing.
• 7:46
  Speaker 1: The biggest crisis we have right now is that we
• 7:48
  Speaker 1: do not have available testing that's ready and available for
• 7:51
  Speaker 1: everyone who needs a test. On Friday, Trump told us
• 7:54
  Speaker 1: when he was at the CDC, everyone who needs a
• 7:57
  Speaker 1: test can get one. That is 100% false. It was
• 8:00
  Speaker 1: false at the time. It remains false today. There was
• 8:03
  Speaker 1: Senator Lankford, a Republican senator, said that after a briefing today,
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: We're two weeks away from safe, reliable, fast testing for everybody.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Two weeks away. This has been spreading through the United
• 8:13
  Speaker 1: States of America for weeks. People cannot get a test
• 8:16
  Speaker 1: if they need one unless they say that they were
• 8:18
  Speaker 1: traveling to one of the infected countries in many places.
• 8:21
  Speaker 1: There are not enough... It boggles my mind every morning
• 8:24
  Speaker 1: I wake up and we still don't have available testing
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: and people in the government, people in charge, cannot tell
• 8:30
  Speaker 1: us why.
• 8:30
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's... Like, this... This is the nightmare scenario, right?
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: We have, Trump has been operating in a situation where
• 8:39
  Speaker 2: all of the crises he faced were ones of his
• 8:41
  Speaker 2: own making and they were political in nature. And this
• 8:45
  Speaker 2: is a true governmental crisis, a true crisis that will,
• 8:50
  Speaker 2: would test even the most well-functioning and well-staffed government. And
• 8:54
  Speaker 2: he is 100% not up to the job.
• 8:58
  Speaker 1: It's, yeah, I don't know. I mean, do you think like,
• 9:03
  Speaker 1: Do you think he has any grasp of how serious
• 9:04
  Speaker 1: this crisis is? Or does he know and not care,
• 9:09
  Speaker 1: not know what to do? It's always tough to figure
• 9:13
  Speaker 1: out what's going on in his fucking addled mind, but
• 9:15
  Speaker 1: I don't know. What do you think?
• 9:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. Same way. I think the fact
• 9:18
  Speaker 2: that he gave the speech last night recognizes at least
• 9:21
  Speaker 2: that he is beginning to understand the political crisis he faces,
• 9:25
  Speaker 2: not necessarily the public health crisis that the country and
• 9:28
  Speaker 2: the world faces at all. ultimately, like everything else, it
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: is Trump first, America last. And so he's thinking about
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: ways in which he can help himself, not ways in
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: which he can help solve the problems for the country,
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: regardless of whether it helps or hurts him politically. And
• 9:44
  Speaker 2: the policies that he offered just bespeak a massive ignorance
• 9:50
  Speaker 2: to what's happening in America. And it's not surprising because
• 9:53
  Speaker 2: he has been watching Fox News. And Fox News would
• 9:57
  Speaker 2: make you think that this is all an impeachment hoax,
• 9:59
  Speaker 2: as Trish Reagan from Fox Business said the other day,
• 10:02
  Speaker 2: or it's Democrats fanning the flames for political gain as
• 10:07
  Speaker 2: opposed to an actual public health crisis. I mean, the
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: NBA canceled its season last night. Most I mean, this
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: is a very real thing. As you said, the governor
• 10:17
  Speaker 2: of California recommended the cancellation of everything over 250 people.
• 10:20
  Speaker 2: This is a real crisis. But his policies are about
• 10:22
  Speaker 2: preventing infected people from coming to America, not trying to
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: stop the spread of disease among Americans, which is what
• 10:32
  Speaker 2: the true problem is, right? That is what's happening in California,
• 10:34
  Speaker 2: in Seattle, in New York. And ultimately, Donald Trump is
• 10:41
  Speaker 2: a germaphobic xenophobe. And that is the worst possible set
• 10:46
  Speaker 2: of characteristics you could have to deal with a crisis
• 10:48
  Speaker 2: like this. He looks at this and sees it as
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: an immigration problem, not a public health problem in the
• 10:52
  Speaker 2: United States, because he's unwilling to admit the crisis because
• 10:56
  Speaker 2: I think he thinks it's bad for him.
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: I mean, trying to ask constructive questions here, what do
• 11:04
  Speaker 1: you think we would be doing differently if Obama was
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: in charge right now and we were at the White House.
• 11:10
  Speaker 1: What would that have addressed looked like last night? How
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: would it have differed tonally, substantively? I know you don't
• 11:15
  Speaker 1: have all the policies, but what do you think?
• 11:18
  Speaker 2: Well, I'm not sure he would have given it last night.
• 11:20
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 11:21
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: I think we would have waited until we had... Well,
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: I think this would have gone one of two ways.
• 11:26
  Speaker 2: He would have given the speech two weeks ago at
• 11:28
  Speaker 2: the front end, or we would be waiting until we
• 11:32
  Speaker 2: had very specific sets of things we could do. It
• 11:33
  Speaker 2: would have certainly included a set of recommendations for what
• 11:37
  Speaker 2: the Congress should do to help deal with the economic
• 11:41
  Speaker 2: fallout and stop the spread of disease, very similar. And
• 11:43
  Speaker 2: I know we'll talk about this very similar with the
• 11:44
  Speaker 2: Democrats in the House put forward today. I think it
• 11:49
  Speaker 2: would have had very specific recommendations on how people prevent
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: the spread of disease in their own families and communities
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: around social distancing. I mean, We worked in the White
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: House during a near pandemic, during the H1N1 flu of 2009.
• 12:06
  Speaker 2: And the amount of, like, I very much remember President
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Obama spent doing videos and PSAs in press telling people
• 12:13
  Speaker 2: to do things as simple as sneeze into their elbow.
• 12:16
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 12:16
  Speaker 3: Right?
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: And to do elbow bumps instead of shaking hands and
• 12:19
  Speaker 2: fist bumps. And all of those things because that, like,
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: we understood that we had a bully pulpit. We had
• 12:26
  Speaker 2: a megaphone that we could communicate with. important information to people.
• 12:30
  Speaker 2: And he used it for that. And that's what I
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: think a President Obama would have done last night. It
• 12:34
  Speaker 2: would have been to try to very forthrightly describe the
• 12:38
  Speaker 2: situation America was in, to give people usable, actionable advice
• 12:45
  Speaker 2: on how to prevent the spread of disease in their
• 12:48
  Speaker 2: homes and their communities. And it would be a recommendation
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: of a list of things that the country needed Congress
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: to do to prevent the further spread of disease and
• 12:56
  Speaker 2: help the economy recover. That's one of the things we
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: would have done. And we certainly would have not stated
• 13:01
  Speaker 2: the policies wrong and certainly would have been coordinating with
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: the global community. Because the thing we forgot to mention
• 13:06
  Speaker 2: is that Trump forgot his administration did not tell Europe
• 13:11
  Speaker 2: that he was going to institute a travel ban. So
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: now they are furious at the United States. And I
• 13:16
  Speaker 2: also think President Obama would be on the phone or
• 13:19
  Speaker 2: in meetings or in video conferences with leaders of the
• 13:22
  Speaker 2: world talking about coordinated global action to try to stop
• 13:26
  Speaker 2: the spread of disease. Donald Trump will not do that,
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: cannot do that, because he is an isolationist who has
• 13:33
  Speaker 2: no interest in a relationship with the other leaders in
• 13:36
  Speaker 2: the world who would be involved in collective action to
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: stop it.
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: He reportedly doesn't even want to get in a room
• 13:41
  Speaker 1: with Nancy Pelosi to negotiate an economic recovery package because
• 13:46
  Speaker 1: he's still mad at her over impeachment, so he won't
• 13:48
  Speaker 1: get in a room, let alone coordinate a global response
• 13:51
  Speaker 1: with other world leaders. I also think Barack Obama would
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: be on the phone every day with, like, every... medical
• 13:58
  Speaker 1: expert and insurance industry CEO and drug company CEO moving
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: heaven and earth to get testing up and running faster.
• 14:06
  Speaker 1: And look, if there were barriers to that, he would
• 14:08
  Speaker 1: be telling the American people, here's where we are on testing.
• 14:12
  Speaker 1: Here's why we still can't get ramped up yet. Here's
• 14:14
  Speaker 1: the timeline. Here's what we're hoping for. Here's what I'm
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: going to do. Here's what I need help with Congress
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: for to push this. We would know that the heart
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: of this problem is that we're not testing fast enough
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: as other countries have started ramping up testing. Like, look,
• 14:29
  Speaker 1: South Korea has fucking drive-through testing right now, okay? China had, like,
• 14:33
  Speaker 1: you know, the number of new cases yesterday was in
• 14:35
  Speaker 1: the tens because of all the measures that they instituted,
• 14:38
  Speaker 1: many of which were dramatic. Like, it is possible to
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: mitigate the risk here and to stop the spread of this,
• 14:43
  Speaker 1: or at least slow the spread of this, because we
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: see other countries are doing it. And it's just, it's
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: pretty enraging to look at other countries... with drive-through testing,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: talking about how they're slowing the spread of cases, and
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: we're just not doing that here, and we don't even
• 14:56
  Speaker 1: get an explanation from our leaders about why we're not
• 14:58
  Speaker 1: doing that here. I believe the CDC director was in
• 15:01
  Speaker 1: front of Congress yesterday, and he said the reason that
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: we don't have drive-through testing is he didn't want to
• 15:06
  Speaker 1: affect the relationship between patients and their providers, which, you know,
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I tweeted about it and asked a bunch of doctors, like,
• 15:11
  Speaker 1: what that means, and no one thinks it makes any
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: fucking sense. So I do think, like, President Obama would
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: be doing a lot to address the actual core problem here,
• 15:20
  Speaker 1: But I also think the tone would be different too, right?
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: And I do think it's very challenging to figure out
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: what is the right tone on this, right? You do
• 15:27
  Speaker 1: not want to spark panic, but you also don't want
• 15:30
  Speaker 1: to downplay the severity of this. Jay Inslee is the
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: governor of Washington, and they instituted a ban on gatherings
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: with 250 people or more in Seattle, in the Seattle region,
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: which is where one of the outbreaks is. And one
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: of the reporters asked him at a press conference, is
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: there a penalty? What's the penalty for holding a gathering
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: of more than 250 people And Jay Inslee said, the
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: penalties are you might be killing your granddad if you
• 15:52
  Speaker 1: don't do it. And like, you know, a lot of
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: people looked at that statement like, wow, but that's where
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: we are right now. That's how serious this is. And
• 16:00
  Speaker 1: you didn't hear anything like that level of seriousness from
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump throughout this whole crisis.
• 16:07
  Speaker 2: No, it's, I mean, it is just, it is a
• 16:10
  Speaker 2: massive government-wide failure and it starts at the top.
• 16:15
  Speaker 1: So now this moves to Congress where Republicans have been
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: told by Trump that they should pass a payroll tax
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: cut that lasts until the election. The White House has
• 16:22
  Speaker 1: also floated tax bailouts for airlines and cruise industry and
• 16:26
  Speaker 1: the hotel industry. But the whole thing has so far
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: fallen flat on Capitol Hill. Senate Republicans are reportedly worried
• 16:32
  Speaker 1: that the tax cuts cost too much money, while Democrats
• 16:36
  Speaker 1: correctly argue that a payroll tax won't help workers who
• 16:39
  Speaker 1: are laid off because of coronavirus and that it will
• 16:41
  Speaker 1: be less impactful than more direct measures like paid medical leave,
• 16:45
  Speaker 1: expanded unemployment insurance, food security, food assistance, free coronavirus testing
• 16:51
  Speaker 1: that includes the uninsured, protections for health care workers, expanded
• 16:54
  Speaker 1: Medicaid for poorer Americans who can't access health care. So, Dan,
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: it looks like the House Democrats will pass a bill
• 17:03
  Speaker 1: today with these measures called the Families First Coronavirus Response Act.
• 17:09
  Speaker 1: The question is then what? House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy
• 17:11
  Speaker 1: said this morning he's against the Democratic proposal. I believe
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: the White House has called this radical left proposals, what
• 17:18
  Speaker 1: I just talked about. You know, sick leave, food assistance
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: for people. They're calling this radical socialist left proposals. So
• 17:26
  Speaker 1: the Senate Republicans, House Republicans, and Donald Trump are now
• 17:30
  Speaker 1: against this package. How much leverage do the Democrats have
• 17:34
  Speaker 1: to make sure enough help gets to the right people?
• 17:38
  Speaker 2: I mean, they have a lot of leverage here, right? Like,
• 17:41
  Speaker 2: there is... No response bill can be passed without Nancy
• 17:44
  Speaker 2: Pelosi's okay. And they should use that leverage. And I
• 17:49
  Speaker 2: do think it's a balance between ensuring that we get
• 17:52
  Speaker 2: something that actually matters, that will make a real impact
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: in people's lives. And what the White House has talked
• 17:57
  Speaker 2: about in terms of a broad-based payroll tax cut is
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: in and of itself insufficient, because it does nothing for
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: the people who are going to lose their jobs in
• 18:05
  Speaker 2: this process. It's not going to help people get more
• 18:08
  Speaker 2: access to testing. It's not going to help people who
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: don't have insurance or are therefore unable to get checked
• 18:13
  Speaker 2: out or get care or any of those things. But
• 18:16
  Speaker 2: they have that leverage and they should use it. And
• 18:19
  Speaker 2: I think it's very smart of them to get that
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: bill out there now and let that be the sort
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: of the basis by which we have this conversation. Because
• 18:29
  Speaker 2: Trump doesn't have a plan. The Senate Republicans don't have
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: a plan. Let this be the thing that they work
• 18:33
  Speaker 2: off of. And so I think that they should push
• 18:35
  Speaker 2: very aggressively. And I think it is just notable that
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: Let's flip this around. So let's imagine it is March
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: of 2012, and the economy has just taken a massive
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: hit in a similar situation. Could you imagine John Boehner
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: and Paul Ryan and the Republicans putting forward a massive
• 18:56
  Speaker 2: economic rescue package in Obama's election year?
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: No.
• 19:02
  Speaker 1: No, I can't. I mean, that's silly. Of course not.
• 19:07
  Speaker 1: They'd be calling for tax cuts and getting rid of
• 19:10
  Speaker 1: regulations is what they would have done.
• 19:11
  Speaker 2: And even if Obama supported everything they want to do,
• 19:14
  Speaker 2: they would rather hurt the economy and Obama than help
• 19:18
  Speaker 2: the country. And the Democrats are different that way. It's
• 19:20
  Speaker 2: a fundamental difference between the two parties.
• 19:23
  Speaker 1: But I don't, I mean, like, you know, there's always
• 19:25
  Speaker 1: the question like, so let's play this out. Democrats have
• 19:29
  Speaker 1: this package. The Trump people say, no, we want a
• 19:31
  Speaker 1: payroll tax cut, maybe a bailout for some of these industries.
• 19:35
  Speaker 1: This is what we're going with. Nancy Pelosi says, no,
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: we passed our bill. I'm not passing any kind of
• 19:42
  Speaker 1: bill that doesn't include these specific measures that are going
• 19:48
  Speaker 1: to help people affected by the pandemic. by the virus
• 19:51
  Speaker 1: and by the economic fallout. That is my priority. We've
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: got to pass this, and I'm not going to pass
• 19:56
  Speaker 1: anything that doesn't do that. Then Donald Trump and the
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: Republicans say Democrats are obstructionists, Democrats are standing in the way,
• 20:04
  Speaker 1: the radical left socialist Democrats are standing in the way
• 20:06
  Speaker 1: and hurting Americans by standing in the way of progress
• 20:10
  Speaker 1: and any kind of relief for people and blah, blah, blah.
• 20:13
  Speaker 1: What happens then? What do you do if you're the Democrats?
• 20:16
  Speaker 2: Look, I think Democrats should be willing to negotiate on...
• 20:19
  Speaker 2: This is obviously their starting offer. And there can be
• 20:22
  Speaker 2: other things... Like a payroll tax cut in and of itself,
• 20:25
  Speaker 2: depending on how it's constructed and everything, it's not offensive.
• 20:29
  Speaker 2: It's just not sufficient. No, it's just not enough.
• 20:30
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 20:31
  Speaker 4: Right.
• 20:31
  Speaker 2: And so... There is room for negotiation here. And certainly,
• 20:35
  Speaker 2: Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats understand that, which is why
• 20:37
  Speaker 2: they pass this bill first. And if there is something
• 20:41
  Speaker 2: that they can pass that actually helps, and I think
• 20:46
  Speaker 2: it's important that paid leave be a part of it.
• 20:48
  Speaker 2: I think, obviously, free testing has to be a part
• 20:50
  Speaker 2: of it. But they should be willing to negotiate. But
• 20:56
  Speaker 2: If Donald Trump decides that he would rather just paint
• 20:58
  Speaker 2: the Democrats as obstructionists than actually get something done, that
• 21:02
  Speaker 2: would be cutting off his nose to spite his face.
• 21:04
  Speaker 2: Because in a situation like this, the reality on the
• 21:08
  Speaker 2: ground is much more impactful than any rhetoric from Trump.
• 21:14
  Speaker 2: What do you think is going to hurt more politically?
• 21:17
  Speaker 2: The fact that nothing is going to be done to
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: help people and maybe stabilize the economy? Who's that going
• 21:21
  Speaker 2: to affect? Donald Trump or Nancy Pelosi? Or a bunch
• 21:24
  Speaker 2: of tweets from Donald Trump? And so this is where
• 21:28
  Speaker 2: the Democratic leverage lies, which is Donald Trump needs something
• 21:30
  Speaker 2: to happen and he can't get anything done without Nancy Pelosi.
• 21:33
  Speaker 2: So he better get over himself and get in a
• 21:36
  Speaker 2: room and figure it out because otherwise he is going
• 21:39
  Speaker 2: to be running for reelection as an impeached, unpopular president
• 21:42
  Speaker 2: who lost by 3 million votes with an economy that
• 21:45
  Speaker 2: is hurtling towards recession in the middle of a crisis.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Yeah, because people aren't going to sit there and say,
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: where's my payroll tax cut holiday? They are going to
• 21:53
  Speaker 1: be sitting there and saying, Why can't I afford the
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: treatment that I need right now? Why am I not
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: getting paid when I'm forced home from work because of
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: this coronavirus? Why are there not protections for the healthcare
• 22:04
  Speaker 1: workers who are handling this? Why is there not available
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: testing right now? That's what people are going to be
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: saying when they're sitting home. And if Donald Trump, if
• 22:11
  Speaker 1: they know that Donald Trump and the Republicans are standing
• 22:14
  Speaker 1: in the way of that, that's not going to be
• 22:15
  Speaker 1: too good for them.
• 22:19
  Speaker 2: No, no. I mean, that is where the leverage is.
• 22:22
  Speaker 2: And I'm I'm just very glad to have Nancy Pelosi
• 22:25
  Speaker 2: in charge right now.
• 22:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, everyone should. This is like imagine if we hadn't
• 22:30
  Speaker 1: won the House in 2018 right now, what would be happening?
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: So what's the right message from Democrats as a party?
• 22:37
  Speaker 1: Sort of just like let's broaden this out here because
• 22:40
  Speaker 1: that was a legislative strategy. But how should, you know,
• 22:43
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden's giving a speech probably as we're recording this.
• 22:45
  Speaker 1: I think it starts at 10 a.m. Pacific Coast time.
• 22:49
  Speaker 1: You know, Bernie Sanders is out there talking about this
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: as well. And then we have the whole rest of
• 22:53
  Speaker 1: the party, everyone who goes on TV, everyone talks about this.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: What do you think the right message is at this point?
• 22:58
  Speaker 2: Well, I think we have to be leaders and we
• 23:01
  Speaker 2: have to use the platforms that we have to provide
• 23:05
  Speaker 2: people with the important, actionable information that Donald Trump is
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: not providing. That, I think, is what we expect to
• 23:13
  Speaker 2: see from Joe Biden later today when he has his remarks.
• 23:16
  Speaker 2: That's what we've seen from many members of Congress, from
• 23:19
  Speaker 2: Democratic governors, for sure. But I also think we have
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: to be very clear about who is responsible for the
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: failures in the system, and that is Donald Trump. And
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: we should not back away from that because some people
• 23:31
  Speaker 2: will scream unity, or you'll get etiquette lectures from cable
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: news pundits, et cetera. People need to understand who is
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: responsible for the failures here, and that is the Trump administration.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: And helping solve the problem comes first, but we don't
• 23:49
  Speaker 2: have to pretend like politics is gone because that the
• 23:53
  Speaker 2: Republicans in Trump are not going to put politics away.
• 23:57
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: I mean, they're going to scream, uh, don't be political.
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: Don't be partisan. Guess what? Donald Trump should not be
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: in office right now. The people that Donald Trump has
• 24:06
  Speaker 1: hired to work in the white house should not be
• 24:08
  Speaker 1: in the white house right now during a crisis. So yes,
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: I am doing absolutely everything possible to make sure that
• 24:13
  Speaker 1: they are not in office at least come November, because
• 24:16
  Speaker 1: we are in the middle of an urgent public health crisis. And, uh,
• 24:20
  Speaker 1: potentially an economic crisis that's coming. And these people are
• 24:23
  Speaker 1: not cut out for the job and lives depend on it.
• 24:26
  Speaker 1: So that's what I'm trying to do. Make sure they're
• 24:28
  Speaker 1: not there anymore. So like in the sense, like, don't
• 24:31
  Speaker 1: be political. Yes, I'm going to be political in that
• 24:33
  Speaker 1: sense because they are going to get people killed, you know?
• 24:37
  Speaker 1: And it's not even, it is not an exaggeration because
• 24:41
  Speaker 1: you referenced this before, but like Donald Trump and Sean
• 24:44
  Speaker 1: Hannity and Rush Limbaugh and all the propagandists out there,
• 24:47
  Speaker 1: They've already tried to downplay this crisis. They've already tried
• 24:49
  Speaker 1: to downplay the public health aspect of it. Don't worry.
• 24:52
  Speaker 1: It's going away. We have 15 cases. It's going down
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: to zero. It's going to be fine. These are all
• 24:56
  Speaker 1: things that they're saying that is going to lead to
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: more people refusing to do social distancing or other things.
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: And that is going to keep this disease spreading at
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: an unnecessary speed. That is what they are doing. So yes,
• 25:11
  Speaker 1: I want to get them out of office and I
• 25:12
  Speaker 1: will be doing everything I can to do that.
• 25:15
  Speaker 2: I mean, But the Fox News Trump just nexus of
• 25:22
  Speaker 2: like whitewashing this whole thing and trying to say like,
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: don't worry, is just so stupid, right? It's so dangerously
• 25:29
  Speaker 2: stupid because the Venn diagram of people most vulnerable to
• 25:34
  Speaker 2: this disease and Fox News viewers are two perfectly overlapping circles.
• 25:40
  Speaker 2: Like that is what we are talking about here. And
• 25:42
  Speaker 2: like the– giving a potentially fatal disease to each other
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: to own the libs is probably the ultimate manifestation of
• 25:54
  Speaker 2: Trumpism in 2020.
• 25:57
  Speaker 1: It's not, I mean, it's not even funny. It's just,
• 26:00
  Speaker 1: it's fucking sad. So before we get to the primary
• 26:06
  Speaker 1: and leave this topic, let's talk about how coronavirus will
• 26:09
  Speaker 1: affect the actual active campaigning in 2020. Joe Biden and
• 26:14
  Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders have canceled rallies this week. Trump still did his.
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: But even Trump after the last after last night, the
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: White House announced they were canceling his events in Colorado
• 26:25
  Speaker 1: and Nevada this week. How does this change the campaign?
• 26:29
  Speaker 1: And and will Trump be able to hold off on
• 26:32
  Speaker 1: doing his rallies for long?
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: The Trump part is a very interesting question because he
• 26:38
  Speaker 2: talked about elderly people not gathering last night. That was
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: like one thing he said that was somewhat useful. And
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: I went with that Donald Trump is an elderly person,
• 26:45
  Speaker 2: primarily supported by elderly people. So having rallies seems to
• 26:49
  Speaker 2: run counter to anything and everything you would do in
• 26:51
  Speaker 2: the middle of a coronavirus pandemic. And I think it's
• 26:54
  Speaker 2: going to be a real test. In terms of like
• 26:56
  Speaker 2: the nuts and bolts of the campaign, rallies provide a
• 27:00
  Speaker 2: couple of things, right? They are an organizing opportunity for campaigns.
• 27:04
  Speaker 2: It's where they get people to sign up to be volunteers,
• 27:06
  Speaker 2: to register to vote. It's where they get people's data
• 27:08
  Speaker 2: so that you can reach out to them for GOTV
• 27:11
  Speaker 2: and volunteer recruitment later on. Every missed rally affects that.
• 27:19
  Speaker 2: It affects your ability to build an organization. For the
• 27:22
  Speaker 2: context of Joe Biden's campaign, right now, it makes it
• 27:30
  Speaker 2: I don't think it's not a sort of a devastating
• 27:32
  Speaker 2: blow that you can't have rallies in March for an
• 27:34
  Speaker 2: election in November, but Trump is well ahead in data
• 27:39
  Speaker 2: accumulation and volunteer recruitment. And so that matters. But ultimately,
• 27:44
  Speaker 2: the other part of rallies that you and I care
• 27:46
  Speaker 2: a lot about is their message opportunities, right? They're where
• 27:49
  Speaker 2: you can drive news coverage and say things. And Biden
• 27:53
  Speaker 2: and Bernie will both have to be very creative about
• 28:00
  Speaker 2: ways in which to get your message out without rallies.
• 28:03
  Speaker 2: I do think in the context of the primary, it
• 28:04
  Speaker 2: really freezes things. It's not totally evident. We're in this
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: place where, and we'll talk about it, where the campaign
• 28:12
  Speaker 2: is in a certain stage and now no one can
• 28:15
  Speaker 2: do the sort of active campaigning that you would require
• 28:17
  Speaker 2: to change the dynamics of the race. And so it's
• 28:19
  Speaker 2: probably frozen in a place that is very favorable to
• 28:22
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden.
• 28:24
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And look, a lot of this depends on how
• 28:26
  Speaker 1: long this lasts and how long we're sort of locked down. And,
• 28:31
  Speaker 1: you know, if you read the advice from medical experts
• 28:34
  Speaker 1: and people who are really studying this, we could be
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: at the very beginning of this, partly because we've been
• 28:38
  Speaker 1: so far behind on testing. But, you know, this is
• 28:42
  Speaker 1: sort of the period where, you know, Joe Biden and
• 28:45
  Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders are still sort of going at it. They're
• 28:47
  Speaker 1: still primary. You know, there's I wouldn't say there's a
• 28:49
  Speaker 1: period of calm before the conventions, because obviously, you know,
• 28:52
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden, wraps this thing up next week or in
• 28:55
  Speaker 1: the coming weeks. You know, he's already, as you mentioned,
• 28:58
  Speaker 1: far behind Trump on organization and everything else. And so
• 29:01
  Speaker 1: he's got to do a lot to catch up. But
• 29:02
  Speaker 1: there's a difference between not having campaign rallies and not
• 29:05
  Speaker 1: having a lot of active campaigning in the spring of
• 29:07
  Speaker 1: 2020 than there is as we're getting into the summer
• 29:10
  Speaker 1: of 2020 and the fall of 2020, right? Like if
• 29:13
  Speaker 1: we're still here in September, that's a very different world
• 29:16
  Speaker 1: and a very different campaign.
• 29:18
  Speaker 2: The conventions themselves might be at risk. If the disease
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: is still throughout the country, without a doubt, there will
• 29:26
  Speaker 2: not be a gathering of tens of thousands of Democrats
• 29:29
  Speaker 2: in Milwaukee. And what that means is that the most important,
• 29:33
  Speaker 2: most watched speech that our nominee gives will not happen,
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: at least in its traditional form. And the party and
• 29:39
  Speaker 2: the campaign will have to be very creative about ways
• 29:42
  Speaker 2: in which to get the message out, but you're going
• 29:44
  Speaker 2: to lose perhaps your best chance to tell your story
• 29:46
  Speaker 2: to the country before election day.
• 29:48
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 29:48
  Speaker 1: All right, let's talk about this week's primary. where the
• 29:59
  Speaker 1: results of six contests known as Fairly Substantial Tuesday made
• 30:02
  Speaker 1: it almost certain that Vice President Joe Biden will end
• 30:05
  Speaker 1: up with the most pledged delegates and become the Democratic
• 30:07
  Speaker 1: nominee in Milwaukee, if there is a Milwaukee convention. Biden
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: is currently leading in Washington and has already won Missouri, Mississippi, Idaho,
• 30:17
  Speaker 1: and Michigan, the biggest delegate prize where Bernie Sanders won
• 30:20
  Speaker 1: an upset victory over Hillary Clinton in 2016 and needed
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: to do the same in 2020. After falling behind Biden's
• 30:28
  Speaker 1: 90-delegate lead by at least another 70 delegates, Sanders announced
• 30:33
  Speaker 1: that he's staying in the race. And looking forward to
• 30:35
  Speaker 1: this Sunday's one-on-one debate with Joe Biden, Biden used his
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: speech to call for unity and to turn to the
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: general election challenge against Donald Trump. Here's a clip.
• 30:44
  Speaker 2: And I want to.
• 30:45
  Speaker 5: Thank Bernie Sanders and his supporters for their tireless energy
• 30:49
  Speaker 5: and their passion. We share a common goal, and together
• 30:54
  Speaker 5: we'll defeat Donald Trump. We'll defeat them together. We're going
• 31:01
  Speaker 5: to bring this nation together. We're regenerating a democratic base,
• 31:07
  Speaker 5: the Democratic Party, the African American community, high school educated
• 31:11
  Speaker 5: folks like the ones I grew up with in Claymont,
• 31:13
  Speaker 5: not far from here. In my old neighborhood, labor, suburban women, veterans, firefighters,
• 31:20
  Speaker 5: union members, and so many more. People of every economic station.
• 31:26
  Speaker 5: the poor who are struggling, and they are struggling in
• 31:28
  Speaker 5: this environment, the middle class worries about whether or not
• 31:32
  Speaker 5: they're going to be able to hang on and stay there,
• 31:35
  Speaker 5: maintain their economic security. They're the reason Jill and I
• 31:40
  Speaker 5: got involved in this campaign in the first place. And
• 31:43
  Speaker 5: they're the reason why I became a Democrat so long ago.
• 31:48
  Speaker 1: Dan, what'd you think of the speech?
• 31:50
  Speaker 2: It was great. I think it's one of the best
• 31:51
  Speaker 2: speeches Biden has given, certainly in this campaign. And perhaps
• 31:55
  Speaker 2: in much of his political career. It was, the tone
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: was exactly right. The message was right. And it was
• 32:02
  Speaker 2: delivered with, I think, strength and emotion, which is really
• 32:08
  Speaker 2: hard to do in what was essentially an empty arena
• 32:10
  Speaker 2: because they canceled the rally portion of it for all
• 32:15
  Speaker 2: the reasons we've been talking about on this podcast. And
• 32:17
  Speaker 2: so I thought it would, he hit all the right marks.
• 32:20
  Speaker 1: Look, I've always been a fan of rallies because of
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: the energy. But as I watched him deliver that speech,
• 32:26
  Speaker 1: I thought, you know, maybe a campaign without a bunch
• 32:28
  Speaker 1: of rallies is a good thing because I thought his
• 32:30
  Speaker 1: tone was perfect. I thought on Super Tuesday, Biden was
• 32:34
  Speaker 1: just yelling and screaming a little too much. I thought
• 32:37
  Speaker 1: his tone in the South Carolina victory speech was perfect, too.
• 32:39
  Speaker 1: I think this was probably even better because, you know,
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: the truth is this is a very serious, sober moment
• 32:45
  Speaker 1: right now with this virus spreading and this pandemic and
• 32:50
  Speaker 1: the economy cratering. And I think what people are going
• 32:54
  Speaker 1: to be looking for, what they're looking for now, what
• 32:56
  Speaker 1: they'll be looking for even more in the days ahead
• 32:59
  Speaker 1: is sort of some serious competence. You know, at another
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: point in that speech, Biden said tonight, we're a step
• 33:05
  Speaker 1: closer to restoring decency, dignity and honor to the White House.
• 33:09
  Speaker 1: At this moment, there's so much fear in the country.
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: There's so much fear across the world. We need presidential
• 33:14
  Speaker 1: leadership that's honest, trustworthy, truthful and steady. For a very
• 33:18
  Speaker 1: large chunk of voters out there, particularly some of the
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: swing voters that we need, that is a message that
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: is enough for them. That is the message that is
• 33:27
  Speaker 1: going to say, okay, if Joe Biden can deliver on that,
• 33:30
  Speaker 1: what he just said, that is enough for me. I
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: am ready to vote for him instead of Donald Trump.
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: It is not all he needs. It is not completely sufficient.
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: There's a lot more work he has to do with
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: a lot of other groups of voters, 100%. But for
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: a big chunk of people out there, I think that's
• 33:46
  Speaker 1: exactly what they wanted to hear. What do you think
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: about that?
• 33:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's right. And I think it is...
• 33:53
  Speaker 2: I don't know that just like in a laboratory, you
• 33:56
  Speaker 2: and I would design a campaign that was built on
• 33:59
  Speaker 2: the idea of decency. No, we would not. You're thinking like,
• 34:03
  Speaker 2: what's the best way to beat Trump?
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: It's not sufficient.
• 34:05
  Speaker 2: But when you take on an incumbent, as our friend
• 34:12
  Speaker 2: David Axelrod always says, you want the replacement, not the replica.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: And so what is your biggest point of contrast with Trump?
• 34:20
  Speaker 2: And you're going to be your most successful when your
• 34:22
  Speaker 2: biggest point of contrast with your opponent lines up with
• 34:24
  Speaker 2: your greatest strength. One thing people know about Joe Biden
• 34:28
  Speaker 2: is that he is a decent human being, that he
• 34:31
  Speaker 2: cares about people, that he has been through tragedy in
• 34:34
  Speaker 2: his life and come out on the other side. And
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: that is his greatest point of contrast with Trump. There
• 34:41
  Speaker 2: is an argument where it's like, well, wouldn't it be better?
• 34:44
  Speaker 2: Wouldn't a stronger point of contrast be a younger Joe?
• 34:49
  Speaker 2: Democrat or someone like Pete Buttigieg, who has not been
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: part of the political establishment for a long time, or
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: someone like Elizabeth Warren or Kamala Harris, who are very
• 34:59
  Speaker 2: different in experience and policy than Trump or everything like that.
• 35:03
  Speaker 2: But Biden also was very different than Trump. They were
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: personally the diametrically opposite people. And making that a center,
• 35:12
  Speaker 2: not the entire campaign, because you're going to need policies
• 35:15
  Speaker 2: and you're as a foundation, the difference in character between
• 35:23
  Speaker 2: the two men, I think is a huge asset. And
• 35:27
  Speaker 2: I thought that they used it very effectively in that speech.
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I think there's two main things people are
• 35:34
  Speaker 1: looking for in a president that Trump's not offering right now.
• 35:37
  Speaker 1: And one is decency and dignity and honor and honesty,
• 35:42
  Speaker 1: all the things that Biden just spoke about in that clip.
• 35:45
  Speaker 1: The other thing that you and I have talked about
• 35:47
  Speaker 1: is a president who will not just focus on himself,
• 35:51
  Speaker 1: but focus on you, focus on people who care about you.
• 35:54
  Speaker 1: And there was a hint of that in Biden's speech
• 35:56
  Speaker 1: when he talked about sort of the kids I grew
• 35:58
  Speaker 1: up with near here, the working class communities I grew
• 36:01
  Speaker 1: up in. He's talked about himself as middle class Joe.
• 36:04
  Speaker 1: I think the other element to the message that Biden,
• 36:06
  Speaker 1: I've seen him do it before, but he needs it now,
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: in addition to just, I'm going to restore decency and
• 36:11
  Speaker 1: dignity and competence, which I think is going to be
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: baked in for a lot of people, even though a
• 36:15
  Speaker 1: lot of people want that, is I'm I'm going to
• 36:18
  Speaker 1: fight for you. I care about you. I know what
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: you've gone through and Trump doesn't care about you, but
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: I do. And here's, and then there's a policy component
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: to that, you know, primarily economic. And I think it's
• 36:29
  Speaker 1: more natural Elizabeth Warren, Bernie Sanders territory, but, and we're
• 36:32
  Speaker 1: going to talk about sort of what Biden can do
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: to reach out to and attract support from Bernie Sanders supporters.
• 36:38
  Speaker 1: But I think that is a key part of this
• 36:41
  Speaker 1: whole equation. So what kind of voters are giving Biden
• 36:45
  Speaker 1: these wins? How, how is, What is driving his success
• 36:48
  Speaker 1: in these primaries?
• 36:50
  Speaker 2: I mean, it is fundamentally two things. It is the
• 36:53
  Speaker 2: fact that he is winning north of two-thirds of African-American voters,
• 36:57
  Speaker 2: and that is giving him a massive, delicate advantage, particularly
• 37:00
  Speaker 2: in the South, in states like Mississippi on Tuesday night,
• 37:04
  Speaker 2: but then South Carolina, Virginia, North Carolina, et cetera, in
• 37:08
  Speaker 2: the previous contests. And suburban voters. He is seeing a
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: surge in the same group of voters that delivered the
• 37:17
  Speaker 2: House to Democrats in 2018. He is benefiting from the
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: post-Trump realignment in the electorate.
• 37:26
  Speaker 1: Yeah, particularly suburban women. It's not huge, it's not as
• 37:31
  Speaker 1: big as age, but there's a bit of a gender
• 37:32
  Speaker 1: gap between he and Bernie as you go through all
• 37:34
  Speaker 1: these states. And it's women in the suburbs. These are
• 37:37
  Speaker 1: the women who have been organizing resistance groups since the
• 37:41
  Speaker 1: day that Trump was elected, organized the Women's March. And look,
• 37:44
  Speaker 1: I've been saying this, but when you get to the suburbs,
• 37:47
  Speaker 1: there's that cohort of voters who are sort of liberal
• 37:50
  Speaker 1: in nature, but just haven't participated in politics as much
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: before Trump was elected. And then there's a group of
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: more moderate voters, the folks I spoke to in Phoenix,
• 38:00
  Speaker 1: who were Romney Clinton voters, who used to be Republicans
• 38:03
  Speaker 1: and because Trump has become president and the Republican Party
• 38:07
  Speaker 1: has become radicalized over the last 10 years, maybe longer,
• 38:11
  Speaker 1: they're more moderate now and they're willing to vote for
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: a more moderate Democrat. And that's how he's doing. I
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: would say the other way he's beating Bernie is in 2016,
• 38:23
  Speaker 1: Bernie was crushing Hillary Clinton among rural and non-college educated
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: white voters. Not that those voters make up a large
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: part of the Democratic coalition anymore, But they still make
• 38:34
  Speaker 1: up around a third of the Democratic coalition, which I
• 38:37
  Speaker 1: know is hard to believe. And in 2016, Bernie was
• 38:40
  Speaker 1: crushing with those voters. Now, Joe Biden is mostly beating
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: him among those voters. There's a few places where they're
• 38:46
  Speaker 1: running a little closer, but especially in Michigan, some of
• 38:49
  Speaker 1: the counties in Michigan, Joe Biden, which is where he
• 38:52
  Speaker 1: won every single county, Joe Biden crushed Bernie among non-college
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: white working class voters. And Bernie's entire and we'll talk
• 38:59
  Speaker 1: about this, but Bernie's entire electability case, or one part
• 39:02
  Speaker 1: of his electability case, rested on the fact that he
• 39:05
  Speaker 1: could do better with white working class voters than Hillary did,
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: and that somehow made him more competitive in the election
• 39:11
  Speaker 1: against Trump. And Joe Biden has been winning those voters.
• 39:16
  Speaker 1: So let's talk about Bernie Sanders. What went wrong for
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: Bernie Sanders, both in Michigan and elsewhere?
• 39:23
  Speaker 2: Well, it is two, I'd say it's three fundamental things. One,
• 39:28
  Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders is doing as poorly and in some cases
• 39:31
  Speaker 2: worse with African-American voters in 2016. He had four years
• 39:35
  Speaker 2: to solve that problem and he did not. And there's
• 39:40
  Speaker 2: a question about whether it was ever possible to solve
• 39:42
  Speaker 2: it when running against Barack Obama's vice president. But if
• 39:46
  Speaker 2: you were in a meeting in the Sanders headquarters the
• 39:48
  Speaker 2: day after the 2016 primary came to an end and
• 39:52
  Speaker 2: you said, if we are running again in four years,
• 39:55
  Speaker 2: how do we have a different outcome? The A number
• 39:59
  Speaker 2: one on that list is improve our performance of African-American voters.
• 40:03
  Speaker 2: Because you cannot win the Democratic primary because of how
• 40:06
  Speaker 2: the party is made up and how delegates are allocated
• 40:09
  Speaker 2: without doing very, very well with African-American voters. So that's one.
• 40:13
  Speaker 2: Two is... Sanders had a coalition that allowed him to
• 40:18
  Speaker 2: do very well in a multi-candidate field. And they were
• 40:23
  Speaker 2: not prepared for the fact that the race narrowed much
• 40:26
  Speaker 2: sooner than they thought. And if Amy Klobuchar, Pete Buttigieg,
• 40:31
  Speaker 2: and all these other people had still been in the
• 40:32
  Speaker 2: race on Super Tuesday, then Sanders probably would have almost
• 40:37
  Speaker 2: certainly ended where we thought he would end, which is
• 40:38
  Speaker 2: with a substantial, if not insurmountable, delicate lead. And the
• 40:43
  Speaker 2: third issue is in an election where electability was the
• 40:48
  Speaker 2: most important issue to a vast majority of voters, he
• 40:51
  Speaker 2: was unable to convince a majority of Democratic voters that
• 40:55
  Speaker 2: he was the most electable or particularly electable. And I
• 41:00
  Speaker 2: think a whole series of things that happened between Nevada
• 41:04
  Speaker 2: and South Carolina, most notably... The controversy around, which I
• 41:09
  Speaker 2: think in some ways was particularly unfair, but the controversy
• 41:11
  Speaker 2: around his comments on Castro really hurt his electability case.
• 41:19
  Speaker 2: And voters concerned about electability flocked to Joe Biden when
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: it became clear there was one alternative to Sanders.
• 41:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah.
• 41:26
  Speaker 1: And we have talked about electability, complained about it, talked
• 41:31
  Speaker 1: about how hard it is to measure. how a lot
• 41:34
  Speaker 1: of it is wrapped up in sexism and racism and
• 41:39
  Speaker 1: all the problems with electability we have been talking about
• 41:42
  Speaker 1: from the beginning of this race. And yet, fear of
• 41:47
  Speaker 1: losing to Donald Trump is the overriding emotion that has
• 41:51
  Speaker 1: driven the entire primary. And I think it's fair to
• 41:54
  Speaker 1: say that Democratic voters retreated to traditional notions of what
• 41:59
  Speaker 1: electability has always meant at the last minute. And, you know,
• 42:04
  Speaker 1: you can say it's fair or not, but that seems
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: to be what happened here. And it seems to have happened,
• 42:10
  Speaker 1: you know, by pretty big margins in a lot of
• 42:13
  Speaker 1: these states. And I wonder, I've always wondered, like, if
• 42:16
  Speaker 1: this was a 2008 situation where we're sitting here in
• 42:19
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump's second term as president and we know that
• 42:23
  Speaker 1: a Democrat has a good chance of winning this election
• 42:26
  Speaker 1: and Donald Trump's not running again and we don't have
• 42:28
  Speaker 1: to worry about that. Would Bernie Sanders have won that?
• 42:31
  Speaker 1: Would Elizabeth Warren have won that primary? Would Kamala Harris
• 42:33
  Speaker 1: have won that primary? I think it's very possible. I
• 42:36
  Speaker 1: think we've talked, you know, Barack Obama, part of the
• 42:38
  Speaker 1: reason he won in 2008 is a lot of primary
• 42:41
  Speaker 1: voters were more willing to take a risk because they
• 42:44
  Speaker 1: knew that whatever was going to happen, George W. Bush
• 42:46
  Speaker 1: was not going to be president for a third term. So,
• 42:48
  Speaker 1: you know, the one thing that the Bernie campaign is
• 42:50
  Speaker 1: pointing to is he's just crushing Biden among younger voters.
• 42:56
  Speaker 1: And it's not just 18 to 29. I think In
• 42:59
  Speaker 1: a lot of states, he's beating them even with voters
• 43:02
  Speaker 1: 30 to 44. It's usually Biden's winning everyone 45 and up.
• 43:06
  Speaker 1: And so why hasn't that been enough to sort of
• 43:09
  Speaker 1: carry him to victory or at least made him more competitive,
• 43:12
  Speaker 1: you know, when he has promised this sort of increase
• 43:16
  Speaker 1: in youth turnout? And the Sanders campaign is saying, by
• 43:18
  Speaker 1: the way, that if you look state by state in
• 43:20
  Speaker 1: raw numbers, we're seeing more young people at the polls
• 43:24
  Speaker 1: than we did in 2016 in some of these states.
• 43:27
  Speaker 2: Because other groups are turning out at a higher rate.
• 43:30
  Speaker 2: And so while the raw numbers are up, the overall
• 43:33
  Speaker 2: percentage of the electorate is either the same or down.
• 43:37
  Speaker 2: And that is the challenge for Sanders. And it's a
• 43:44
  Speaker 2: pretty big blow to his electability argument, which is, he
• 43:48
  Speaker 2: should be turning out, not like, yes, he is turning
• 43:50
  Speaker 2: out young voters in a larger number than 2016, but
• 43:56
  Speaker 2: not in a number that would suggest that he is
• 43:59
  Speaker 2: bringing a wave of new young voters into the process.
• 44:02
  Speaker 2: Even in much of the states in Super Tuesday, he
• 44:04
  Speaker 2: lost among first-time Democratic primary voters to Biden. And that's
• 44:08
  Speaker 2: very specific. And I think one of the narratives that
• 44:11
  Speaker 2: needs to be turned on its head that everyone believed in,
• 44:15
  Speaker 2: the Sanders campaign pushed, we certainly bought was that Sanders
• 44:18
  Speaker 2: was a candidate who would benefit from a high turnout election.
• 44:22
  Speaker 2: That is actually not the case. Biden is the one
• 44:23
  Speaker 2: who has benefited from higher turnout in all these places.
• 44:26
  Speaker 2: Bernie has the highest floor, but the lowest ceiling of
• 44:30
  Speaker 2: the two candidates who remained. And so he's a candidate
• 44:35
  Speaker 2: who can win at 35%, but he has not demonstrated
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: the ability to get from 35% to 51% anywhere in
• 44:42
  Speaker 2: the country.
• 44:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, the fact that the turnout surge... happened
• 44:47
  Speaker 1: in the suburbs and it happened among more middle-aged Americans
• 44:51
  Speaker 1: who are more moderate or, you know, at the very
• 44:55
  Speaker 1: least who lived in the suburbs and didn't necessarily, you know,
• 44:58
  Speaker 1: weren't as young as some of the Bernie voters. That's
• 45:00
  Speaker 1: his problem, even though more young people might be turning
• 45:03
  Speaker 1: up in raw numbers. So, you know, on the flip
• 45:06
  Speaker 1: side of this, how concerned should Joe Biden and the
• 45:09
  Speaker 1: Democratic Party as a whole be about his support among
• 45:13
  Speaker 1: young voters in the general elections?
• 45:17
  Speaker 2: Massively concerned. It's a huge issue. There is no margin
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: for error in this election. This is not a national election.
• 45:24
  Speaker 2: The ability for Joe Biden to be president is going
• 45:27
  Speaker 2: to depend on a number of factors, but one of
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: those factors is certainly turnout among young people in places
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: like Madison, Wisconsin, and Ann Arbor, Michigan, and State College, Pennsylvania,
• 45:37
  Speaker 2: and Tallahassee, Florida, and everywhere else where there are universities
• 45:42
  Speaker 2: or in urban areas in these swing states where young
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: people make up a disproportionate part of the population. So
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: it is a huge thing because it's not that they
• 45:51
  Speaker 2: were going to vote for Trump, it's that they may
• 45:52
  Speaker 2: not vote. And so I think job number one, or
• 45:57
  Speaker 2: at least near the top of the list for the
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: Biden campaign, has to be thinking about how he can
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: make an explicit and substantive appeal to these voters.
• 46:05
  Speaker 1: And that is- Come on, Pod Save America. Just, sorry,
• 46:12
  Speaker 1: something in my throat.
• 46:13
  Speaker 2: Yes. That would be one option. But I have some
• 46:18
  Speaker 2: other ideas, too, that we could talk about or those suggestions.
• 46:21
  Speaker 2: But it it has to be I think it's two things.
• 46:25
  Speaker 2: One is I think it is policy.
• 46:27
  Speaker 3: Right.
• 46:28
  Speaker 2: Like policy matters to young voters. And we should not
• 46:31
  Speaker 2: be dismissive of that. And Biden's inability to win over
• 46:38
  Speaker 2: those voters or even do, I think, acceptably well among
• 46:40
  Speaker 2: those voters is not because he is older. because Bernie
• 46:45
  Speaker 2: Sanders is also in his late 70s. And it's not
• 46:48
  Speaker 2: just because he sometimes talks. There's a line in the
• 46:51
  Speaker 2: New York Times today about how Biden struggles with young
• 46:54
  Speaker 2: voters because he talks about deceased senators and record players.
• 46:56
  Speaker 2: And that's not it. It is that young people raised
• 47:00
  Speaker 2: in the shadow of the recession have a very specific
• 47:03
  Speaker 2: and realistic set of concerns and fears about the economy
• 47:10
  Speaker 2: and have been impacted by the economy in ways that
• 47:12
  Speaker 2: people over the age of 45, who were more economically
• 47:14
  Speaker 2: stable when 2008 hit, have not. They have a deeper
• 47:17
  Speaker 2: concern about climate change. And he's going to have to
• 47:19
  Speaker 2: find ways to address those. And Bernie Sanders succeeded with
• 47:22
  Speaker 2: those voters, even though he was the oldest candidate running,
• 47:25
  Speaker 2: because he spoke to those concerns. And Biden can learn
• 47:27
  Speaker 2: a lot from that.
• 47:28
  Speaker 1: And look, I think there are some policies that, whether
• 47:33
  Speaker 1: it's Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren or some of the
• 47:35
  Speaker 1: other more progressive candidates in the primary have proposed that
• 47:39
  Speaker 1: that Biden could potentially adopt. I also think that Joe Biden,
• 47:45
  Speaker 1: because so much of his message was centered around electability
• 47:49
  Speaker 1: and decency and dignity and competence and all that, he
• 47:52
  Speaker 1: has not really talked as much about the agenda he
• 47:54
  Speaker 1: has already proposed. And at the risk of lighting my
• 47:59
  Speaker 1: mentions on fire, Joe Biden is running on the most
• 48:02
  Speaker 1: progressive platform of any Democratic would-be nominee in history. If
• 48:09
  Speaker 1: he is the nominee, if he takes that stage in
• 48:11
  Speaker 1: Milwaukee and he's the Democratic nominee, his platform will be
• 48:14
  Speaker 1: more progressive than Hillary Clinton's and Barack Obama's in both
• 48:18
  Speaker 1: of his terms. And, you know, he's got a, like,
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: the Sunrise Movement is not happy with Joe Biden's climate plan.
• 48:26
  Speaker 1: I know that, right? They've given it a poor grade.
• 48:29
  Speaker 1: It is a $ 1. 7 trillion climate plan. No Democrat has
• 48:33
  Speaker 1: ever proposed that much, spending that much money on trying
• 48:36
  Speaker 1: to combat climate change. And yes, I realize it's an
• 48:38
  Speaker 1: emergency and he could do more. I realize that. He
• 48:41
  Speaker 1: should talk more about, you know, he's got very progressive
• 48:45
  Speaker 1: plans that the campaign has not talked about. And I
• 48:47
  Speaker 1: think one strategy would be, you know, talking about them
• 48:50
  Speaker 1: more and doing some advertising around them. And another strategy
• 48:53
  Speaker 1: would be like rolling them out again, perhaps with a
• 48:56
  Speaker 1: few policies that he borrows from some of the more
• 48:59
  Speaker 1: progressive candidates to send a signal to the party that
• 49:02
  Speaker 1: he really cares about getting younger people to support him,
• 49:07
  Speaker 1: and that he cares about party unity.
• 49:10
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you guys talked about this on Monday's podcast,
• 49:13
  Speaker 2: but the suggestion that Biden adopt the Inslee-Warren climate plan,
• 49:19
  Speaker 2: I think, is... a superb idea.
• 49:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I think so too. And look, the reason I
• 49:25
  Speaker 1: think this is important that he, the youth turnout thing
• 49:28
  Speaker 1: is very important. And I also think it's African-American turnout
• 49:31
  Speaker 1: as well, because we have seen Joe Biden win African-Americans
• 49:36
  Speaker 1: by crushing margins against Bernie Sanders, but we have not
• 49:38
  Speaker 1: seen black turnout up. in many of these states. And
• 49:43
  Speaker 1: so I think in a state like Michigan, the suburban
• 49:46
  Speaker 1: surge of voters, it was enough to carry Gretchen Whitmer
• 49:50
  Speaker 1: to victory in 2018 as the governor of Michigan. She
• 49:53
  Speaker 1: won by a good margin. And I think in a
• 49:56
  Speaker 1: state like Michigan, that could be enough for Joe Biden.
• 49:58
  Speaker 1: I'm not sure. But go next door to Wisconsin. The
• 50:01
  Speaker 1: suburbs of Milwaukee are notorious for being stubbornly Republican. They
• 50:08
  Speaker 1: have not moved like other suburbs around the country, around
• 50:11
  Speaker 1: metro areas have moved. And so I don't think Joe
• 50:13
  Speaker 1: Biden can count on that same suburban surge in the
• 50:16
  Speaker 1: suburbs of Milwaukee. So then what do you do to
• 50:18
  Speaker 1: win Wisconsin? Well, then you have to drive youth turnout
• 50:21
  Speaker 1: in the college towns. You have to cut the Republican
• 50:24
  Speaker 1: margins in rural areas. And you have to boost African-American
• 50:28
  Speaker 1: turnout in cities like Milwaukee. And that is going to
• 50:32
  Speaker 1: be a big challenge in that state specifically. And that
• 50:35
  Speaker 1: is why in 2018... while Gretchen Whitmer wins her race
• 50:39
  Speaker 1: for governor in Michigan by about 10 points, Tony Evers
• 50:41
  Speaker 1: in Wisconsin barely wins over Scott Walker. And I think
• 50:45
  Speaker 1: that's why these are important. We've been talking a lot
• 50:49
  Speaker 1: about the suburban surge and how it matched 2018, and
• 50:53
  Speaker 1: we won in 2018, so maybe now Joe Biden's fine. No,
• 50:55
  Speaker 1: it's a different race with Donald Trump at the top
• 50:57
  Speaker 1: of the ticket. He's going to increase turnout a lot
• 50:59
  Speaker 1: among his voters, and now Biden needs every last voter
• 51:03
  Speaker 1: in the Democratic coalition that he can get.
• 51:06
  Speaker 2: I don't want to rain on your parade, but I
• 51:08
  Speaker 2: actually don't think it would be enough in Michigan.
• 51:10
  Speaker 1: It may not be. I'm just saying there was a
• 51:12
  Speaker 1: path for... Gretchen Whitmer showed that there's a path.
• 51:15
  Speaker 2: It's just what we have not yet experienced and we
• 51:17
  Speaker 2: have to recognize, and our friend David Plouffe talks about
• 51:19
  Speaker 2: this a lot, which is that Trump is going to
• 51:23
  Speaker 2: turn out more people. First, there's a large pocket of
• 51:28
  Speaker 2: non-voters who demographically model out as Republicans in Michigan as
• 51:34
  Speaker 2: well as Wisconsin. And so Trump is going to turn
• 51:36
  Speaker 2: out a bunch of people he did not turn out
• 51:38
  Speaker 2: in 2016 and did not turn out in 2018. And
• 51:41
  Speaker 2: so the raw number of votes we're going to need
• 51:44
  Speaker 2: to win is going to be well north of what
• 51:47
  Speaker 2: it was in 16 and 18. And so you're exactly
• 51:50
  Speaker 2: right about that Wisconsin is even harder than Michigan, but Like,
• 51:55
  Speaker 2: you're right. We need youth turnout. We need African-American turnout.
• 51:57
  Speaker 2: We need to keep the Romney-Clinton Republican voters. We have
• 52:01
  Speaker 2: to do everything. And this is going to come down
• 52:04
  Speaker 2: to 100,000 to 200,000 votes across three to four states.
• 52:10
  Speaker 2: And there is zero margin of error.
• 52:13
  Speaker 1: We have a much bigger, much more diverse coalition than
• 52:16
  Speaker 1: the Republicans. And that is why it's harder for us.
• 52:19
  Speaker 1: That's always why it's been harder. Diverse in terms of background.
• 52:22
  Speaker 1: Diverse in terms of ideology. They are much more ideologically aligned.
• 52:26
  Speaker 1: They are all older white people in the Republican side.
• 52:30
  Speaker 1: It is just much easier to run a campaign when
• 52:32
  Speaker 1: you have a homogeneous mix of voters in your coalition.
• 52:36
  Speaker 1: We do not. In many ways, that's a good thing
• 52:39
  Speaker 1: for us because the Democratic Party looks more like America,
• 52:42
  Speaker 1: but it makes it much harder to have a story
• 52:44
  Speaker 1: and have a candidate that appeals to that broader coalition.
• 52:47
  Speaker 1: And that's why we always have harder challenges. So let's
• 52:50
  Speaker 1: talk about where the progressive movement goes from here. Jonathan
• 52:52
  Speaker 1: Chait wrote a piece about how Bernie's campaign was based
• 52:55
  Speaker 1: on a misreading of the 2016 election. The idea that
• 52:57
  Speaker 1: Hillary lost and white working class voters abandoned her because
• 53:01
  Speaker 1: she wasn't enough of an economic populist. What do you
• 53:04
  Speaker 1: think of Chait's argument? And what would you be doing
• 53:06
  Speaker 1: if you were like running justice Democrats right now? Or
• 53:09
  Speaker 1: if you were AOC, like what, what is next for
• 53:12
  Speaker 1: the progressive movement?
• 53:13
  Speaker 2: Like Chait has been making this point for a long time.
• 53:15
  Speaker 1: He did.
• 53:16
  Speaker 2: He's the one who makes it with, I think joy
• 53:18
  Speaker 2: in that article. Um, Because he was proven right by
• 53:23
  Speaker 2: a lot of this, by at least how the 2020
• 53:25
  Speaker 2: primaries played itself out. And there is some truth to
• 53:29
  Speaker 2: it that the politics changed a lot from 2016 to
• 53:35
  Speaker 2: 2020 and whether Bernie Sanders was right about what happened
• 53:38
  Speaker 2: in 2016. And I think there is some merit to
• 53:41
  Speaker 2: the fact that a more explicitly populist economic argument from
• 53:45
  Speaker 2: Hillary Clinton would have... been beneficial, whether it would have
• 53:48
  Speaker 2: been enough to win with all of the headwinds that
• 53:51
  Speaker 2: she faced from Jim Comey to Russia to everything else.
• 53:54
  Speaker 2: I do not know the answer, but we lost the
• 53:57
  Speaker 2: economic argument in 2016. And that is one of the reasons,
• 54:01
  Speaker 2: at least, why Donald Trump is president. So I understand
• 54:04
  Speaker 2: that theory. I think as we look at 2020, I
• 54:08
  Speaker 2: think the question for the left are the following things.
• 54:13
  Speaker 2: One is, as we mentioned earlier, A true introspection about
• 54:20
  Speaker 2: why it is that their economic message that is so
• 54:23
  Speaker 2: powerful with younger voters and was very persuasive to Hispanic voters,
• 54:27
  Speaker 2: at least in the West, just failed miserably with African-American voters.
• 54:32
  Speaker 2: Why is that? Because the theory of a class-based economic
• 54:37
  Speaker 2: message means it should be it should work across the
• 54:40
  Speaker 2: entire working class, regardless of race and geography. And why
• 54:44
  Speaker 2: is it not work with African-American voters, a group who
• 54:48
  Speaker 2: had suffered as much as, as much, if not more
• 54:51
  Speaker 2: than anyone at the exact forces that Bernie Sanders talks
• 54:54
  Speaker 2: so passionately and eloquently about? Is it a question of policy?
• 55:00
  Speaker 2: Is it a question of message? Is it a question
• 55:02
  Speaker 2: of messenger, right? Is simply that Bernie Sanders was a,
• 55:06
  Speaker 2: was an imperfect messenger for that group of voters. And
• 55:11
  Speaker 2: so I think that's step number one. I really think
• 55:13
  Speaker 2: the other thing that is a really important question for
• 55:17
  Speaker 2: the left is what role does socialism play in this?
• 55:23
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 55:24
  Speaker 2: Right. Which is, is there an alternative scenario where you
• 55:28
  Speaker 2: run on Bernie Sanders' policies, but under the banner of
• 55:33
  Speaker 2: the Democratic Party and capitalism, which is what Elizabeth Warren
• 55:36
  Speaker 2: was trying to do. And because you think about 2016,
• 55:41
  Speaker 2: and some of the reports are that Bernie Sanders would
• 55:44
  Speaker 2: not have run for president in 2016 if Elizabeth Warren
• 55:47
  Speaker 2: had done so. You have Elizabeth Warren, someone who is
• 55:49
  Speaker 2: a Democrat in good standing. She has relationships within the party.
• 55:54
  Speaker 2: She's a proud member of the Democratic Party. And she
• 55:57
  Speaker 2: advocates for the vast majority of the same policies that
• 56:01
  Speaker 2: Sanders does. But she argues for them in the context
• 56:04
  Speaker 2: of the Democratic political tradition. And it does not wrap
• 56:08
  Speaker 2: them in a very politically dangerous label of socialism, which
• 56:14
  Speaker 2: is funny because the policies that both she and Sanders
• 56:16
  Speaker 2: advocate for are not socialist.
• 56:18
  Speaker 1: That's the craziest thing.
• 56:19
  Speaker 2: They are the extensions of, as Sanders himself has argued,
• 56:26
  Speaker 2: the New Deal policies that have been central to the
• 56:28
  Speaker 2: Democratic Party since Franklin Roosevelt. And Bernie Sanders' Fox News
• 56:34
  Speaker 2: town hall, which I thought he did an excellent job in,
• 56:36
  Speaker 2: and having the crowd boo the Fox News hosts for
• 56:40
  Speaker 2: some of their questions, I think was very enjoyable, even
• 56:44
  Speaker 2: if I have a general opposition to Democrats helping Fox News.
• 56:48
  Speaker 2: But he's asked this question about these very popular policies
• 56:52
  Speaker 2: like Medicare for All in the context of whether they
• 56:54
  Speaker 2: lead to Stalinism, which is not something that would happen
• 56:57
  Speaker 2: if they were pitched in the context of capitalism, right?
• 57:02
  Speaker 2: Fixing what is wrong with capitalism. Because you can be
• 57:04
  Speaker 2: a capitalist country and have universal healthcare. You can be
• 57:07
  Speaker 2: a capitalist country and have a strong social safety net.
• 57:12
  Speaker 2: You can be a capitalist country and have free college
• 57:13
  Speaker 2: because it happens. And that is a possibility. And I
• 57:17
  Speaker 2: think where America needs to go. And so for all
• 57:21
  Speaker 2: of the parts of the left who have embraced the
• 57:25
  Speaker 2: democratic socials of America, who advocate for socialism, which is
• 57:30
  Speaker 2: more important The idea of bringing socialism or democratic socialism
• 57:35
  Speaker 2: like Finland has, to use Bernie Sanders' example, or is
• 57:39
  Speaker 2: it to get these policies in place? My guess is
• 57:42
  Speaker 2: ultimately you have a better chance of getting Medicare for
• 57:46
  Speaker 2: all done or having a progressive candidate with Bernie Sanders
• 57:51
  Speaker 2: or Elizabeth Warren's positions if you're not doing it under
• 57:54
  Speaker 2: the banner of socialism.
• 57:56
  Speaker 1: And look, I think they also need to realize that
• 57:58
  Speaker 1: on the policy front, so much of what the progressive
• 58:01
  Speaker 1: movement has done over the last 10 years is working.
• 58:05
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden, if he's the Democratic nominee, will not have
• 58:08
  Speaker 1: the most progressive platform of any nominee in history because
• 58:11
  Speaker 1: Joe Biden woke up one day and decided to just
• 58:13
  Speaker 1: have a progressive platform. It's because progressives, Bernie Sanders, AOC, others,
• 58:19
  Speaker 1: have pushed these issues and moved the Overton window for years.
• 58:23
  Speaker 1: I mean, I keep thinking about sitting down with those
• 58:27
  Speaker 1: voters in Phoenix who all voted to a person for
• 58:30
  Speaker 1: Mitt Romney, Mitt Romney voters, and they didn't like Medicare
• 58:35
  Speaker 1: for All, but every single one of them said, I'd
• 58:38
  Speaker 1: love a public option, absolutely public option, we need it
• 58:40
  Speaker 1: in healthcare. And, you know, for people who are pretty young,
• 58:44
  Speaker 1: they might not think that's a big deal or not
• 58:46
  Speaker 1: think it's efficient, but you and I were there when
• 58:49
  Speaker 1: we tried to pass a public option as part of
• 58:51
  Speaker 1: the Affordable Care Act in 2009, And the entire Republican
• 58:55
  Speaker 1: Party said it was socialism and we couldn't get Democrats
• 58:58
  Speaker 1: on board and Joe Lieberman killed it and a bunch
• 59:00
  Speaker 1: of other moderate conservative Democrats tried to kill the public option.
• 59:03
  Speaker 1: And now we have former Republican voters sitting around saying, yeah,
• 59:07
  Speaker 1: I really want a public option. And the reason they're
• 59:09
  Speaker 1: saying that is because of Bernie Sanders and because of
• 59:12
  Speaker 1: the progressive movement. And they should take a minute. And
• 59:15
  Speaker 1: I know they're upset right now, and I totally understand that.
• 59:17
  Speaker 1: But what you guys are doing is working. It's just
• 59:21
  Speaker 1: not going to happen as fast or as quickly as
• 59:23
  Speaker 1: you want it to. And I do think they have
• 59:25
  Speaker 1: a good strategy where, like, AOC launching a primary against
• 59:29
  Speaker 1: Joe Crowley in a safe blue seat is totally okay.
• 59:33
  Speaker 1: You know, and if Crowley ran a better campaign, maybe
• 59:35
  Speaker 1: he would have won, but we know we're going to
• 59:37
  Speaker 1: get that seat anyway. So you might as well have
• 59:39
  Speaker 1: the most progressive member you can have in that seat.
• 59:41
  Speaker 1: I think what Jessica Cisneros did against Henry Cuellar in Texas,
• 59:45
  Speaker 1: who's super right wing, that was a good thing. What
• 59:47
  Speaker 1: Marie Newman is trying to do with Dan Lipinski in Illinois,
• 59:51
  Speaker 1: who voted against the ACA, she's a challenger there. That's
• 59:55
  Speaker 1: great too. Like, You know, I hope really progressive candidates
• 59:58
  Speaker 1: continue to challenge Democrats who are in safe blue seats
• 1:00:02
  Speaker 1: so that in a safe blue seat, we have the
• 1:00:04
  Speaker 1: most progressive Democrat we can. I think where they had
• 1:00:07
  Speaker 1: problems in 18 is running really progressive candidates in red
• 1:00:11
  Speaker 1: or purple districts who almost all of them lost the
• 1:00:14
  Speaker 1: primary because they just weren't a fit with the electorate.
• 1:00:17
  Speaker 1: And that's OK. Change happens slowly over time. And I
• 1:00:21
  Speaker 1: think I know that AOC gets that. She gets that
• 1:00:25
  Speaker 1: better than most lefty politicians that I've encountered. So what
• 1:00:29
  Speaker 1: happens next for Bernie? On Wednesday, he gave a press
• 1:00:32
  Speaker 1: conference where he admitted that Tuesday's results were tough, but
• 1:00:35
  Speaker 1: said he's staying in the race and looking forward to
• 1:00:37
  Speaker 1: Sunday's debate. He conceded that he's winning the ideological debate,
• 1:00:40
  Speaker 1: but losing the debate about electability that we just talked about.
• 1:00:43
  Speaker 1: And then he laid out a series of questions that
• 1:00:45
  Speaker 1: he intends to ask Joe Biden at the debate on Sunday.
• 1:00:48
  Speaker 1: Here's what he said.
• 1:00:49
  Speaker 3: On Sunday, I very much look forward to the debate
• 1:00:53
  Speaker 3: in Arizona. with my friend Joe Biden. And let me
• 1:00:58
  Speaker 3: be very frank as to the questions that I will
• 1:01:01
  Speaker 3: be asking Joe. Joe, what are you going to do
• 1:01:07
  Speaker 3: for the 500,000 people who go bankrupt in our country
• 1:01:12
  Speaker 3: because of medically related debt? And what are you going
• 1:01:16
  Speaker 3: to do for the working people of this country, and
• 1:01:20
  Speaker 3: small business people who are paying on average 20% of
• 1:01:26
  Speaker 3: their incomes for health care. Joe, what are you going
• 1:01:30
  Speaker 3: to do to end the absurdity of the United States
• 1:01:33
  Speaker 3: of America being the only major country on earth where
• 1:01:36
  Speaker 3: health care is not a human right? Are you really
• 1:01:41
  Speaker 3: going to veto a Medicare for all bill if it
• 1:01:46
  Speaker 3: is passed in Congress?
• 1:01:48
  Speaker 1: So, What did you think of Bernie's remarks and sort
• 1:01:52
  Speaker 1: of his message there?
• 1:01:55
  Speaker 2: I thought his tone was exactly right for the situation
• 1:01:58
  Speaker 2: he was in. It sounded very different than the tone
• 1:02:01
  Speaker 2: of his campaign in 2016 when Hillary Clinton got to
• 1:02:05
  Speaker 2: a similar insurmountable delegate lead. It seemed very realistic about
• 1:02:11
  Speaker 2: the prospects. And I think– and I believe and I
• 1:02:16
  Speaker 2: guess also hope that– Sanders' plan is to use the
• 1:02:21
  Speaker 2: debate to give Biden an opportunity to make a pitch
• 1:02:24
  Speaker 2: to his voters, which then makes it easier for Sanders
• 1:02:29
  Speaker 2: to support Biden, which I think he would do under
• 1:02:31
  Speaker 2: all scenarios, he said so, but do it in a
• 1:02:33
  Speaker 2: way that brings as many of his supporters along. And
• 1:02:37
  Speaker 2: so he's given Biden the roadmap. He told him the questions, right?
• 1:02:41
  Speaker 1: He's trying to land the plane.
• 1:02:42
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 1:02:43
  Speaker 2: And so Biden's got to come with some good answers
• 1:02:44
  Speaker 2: to those questions. The Medicare for all veto question is...
• 1:02:49
  Speaker 2: the most trickiest, I think, because of the way Biden
• 1:02:51
  Speaker 2: answered that question on Lawrence O'Donnell last week.
• 1:02:55
  Speaker 1: Well, I like Lawrence O'Donnell. It was a really bad question.
• 1:03:00
  Speaker 1: There's no universe where there's a Democratic Congress and they
• 1:03:04
  Speaker 1: suddenly surprise the Democratic president with a piece of legislation.
• 1:03:09
  Speaker 1: There would have been a lot more planning and strategy
• 1:03:11
  Speaker 1: and coordination between President Joe Biden and the Democratic Congress
• 1:03:15
  Speaker 1: over what exactly a health care reform bill looked like.
• 1:03:18
  Speaker 1: I don't think he answered it in the best way,
• 1:03:21
  Speaker 1: but I think he has an opportunity to sort of
• 1:03:24
  Speaker 1: clarify that at the debate, and I hope he does.
• 1:03:26
  Speaker 1: And I hope he really, I mean, I'm sure his
• 1:03:28
  Speaker 1: debate prep team is listening to all those questions from
• 1:03:30
  Speaker 1: Bernie and figuring out sufficient answers there. How do you
• 1:03:35
  Speaker 1: think each candidate should handle this debate, which, as we've
• 1:03:38
  Speaker 1: been recording, has just been moved from Arizona to Washington, D.C.? Oh, really?
• 1:03:42
  Speaker 2: I didn't realize that. This is breaking news right here.
• 1:03:44
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Michael just texted me while we were talking, so.
• 1:03:48
  Speaker 2: Um, I think that they should use the platform they're
• 1:03:53
  Speaker 2: going to have to talk about the coronavirus, what should
• 1:03:57
  Speaker 2: be done, what Trump has not done, give actual information
• 1:04:01
  Speaker 2: to people. Like I think every, every person with a platform,
• 1:04:05
  Speaker 2: every politician with a platform should do that and use
• 1:04:08
  Speaker 2: it as an opportunity to talk about, to raise the
• 1:04:10
  Speaker 2: stakes in the election and then have the conversation that
• 1:04:12
  Speaker 2: Bernie Sanders said he wants to have. And he called
• 1:04:15
  Speaker 2: Joe Biden, his friend, if they, I think if it
• 1:04:17
  Speaker 2: is a friendly, a substantive, friendly exchange, and I think
• 1:04:24
  Speaker 2: the party itself and our nominee will be better off
• 1:04:27
  Speaker 2: for it.
• 1:04:28
  Speaker 1: Yeah. Paul Wallman in the Washington Post said that the
• 1:04:31
  Speaker 1: debate could be the difference between, Joe, you need to
• 1:04:34
  Speaker 1: go farther to fight inequality, which is why my proposal
• 1:04:36
  Speaker 1: is better, and Joe, you're a corporate sellout, nobody should
• 1:04:38
  Speaker 1: vote for you. Now, Bernie has never come close to
• 1:04:42
  Speaker 1: saying the latter sentence anyway, so it's obviously hyperbole here,
• 1:04:45
  Speaker 1: but I do think you're right. There is a way
• 1:04:47
  Speaker 1: to have a debate on Sunday that is a productive
• 1:04:50
  Speaker 1: debate about issues and their record and what they're going
• 1:04:53
  Speaker 1: to do, hopefully mostly about the future and what they're
• 1:04:55
  Speaker 1: going to both do for the country going forward that
• 1:04:58
  Speaker 1: I think could help bring both of their supporters together,
• 1:05:03
  Speaker 1: bring the party together, and as I was saying, land
• 1:05:05
  Speaker 1: this plane. I realize that could be just me being
• 1:05:08
  Speaker 1: naive and optimistic. I get that. But that's what they
• 1:05:13
  Speaker 1: should both try to do. Because we actually haven't talked
• 1:05:16
  Speaker 1: about this, but it is extremely hard, almost impossible at
• 1:05:21
  Speaker 1: this point for Bernie to actually win this nomination by
• 1:05:25
  Speaker 1: winning the most pledged delegates. It's not mathematically impossible just yet,
• 1:05:29
  Speaker 1: but we're pretty close.
• 1:05:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Nate Cohn said he'd have to win
• 1:05:33
  Speaker 2: every state remaining. In some cases by large margins.
• 1:05:37
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say, and win it by
• 1:05:38
  Speaker 1: like 10 points. Which, you know, I think I think
• 1:05:43
  Speaker 1: what Bernie's thinking is he had this one debate, which
• 1:05:45
  Speaker 1: is the first one-on-one debate. He wanted to take the
• 1:05:47
  Speaker 1: opportunity because on Tuesday, he's got a series of states
• 1:05:50
  Speaker 1: that he's not polling well in, but especially Florida, where
• 1:05:54
  Speaker 1: he's polling maybe worse than he's polled in any state yet.
• 1:05:58
  Speaker 1: And there's a ton of delegates there. And Joe Biden,
• 1:06:02
  Speaker 1: if he even comes close to his polling margins in Florida,
• 1:06:05
  Speaker 1: could mathematically end the race on Tuesday. So I think
• 1:06:09
  Speaker 1: that's just where we are. And again, Bernie Sanders has said,
• 1:06:12
  Speaker 1: and we agreed with him when he said this, the
• 1:06:14
  Speaker 1: whole primary, the person with the pledged delegate lead should
• 1:06:17
  Speaker 1: be the nominee. And credit to him for saying that.
• 1:06:20
  Speaker 1: But it looks like after Tuesday, that will be the case.
• 1:06:24
  Speaker 2: At least we're not going to have to have a
• 1:06:26
  Speaker 2: contested convention via video conference.
• 1:06:29
  Speaker 1: Oh, that would be bad, Dan. That would be very bad.
• 1:06:35
  Speaker 1: So you might be wondering, what should everyone else do
• 1:06:37
  Speaker 1: in the meantime? While we're still in this primary waiting
• 1:06:40
  Speaker 1: for it to end and we got coronavirus fear all
• 1:06:44
  Speaker 1: over the place. Well, two things. We are $ 100, 000 away
• 1:06:49
  Speaker 1: from reaching our goal for the Leave It All on
• 1:06:51
  Speaker 1: the Field Fund. This is the fund that is going
• 1:06:54
  Speaker 1: to help put organizers on the ground and support organizers
• 1:06:56
  Speaker 1: in states across the country. Again, like even if this
• 1:07:00
  Speaker 1: primary ends next week, Joe Biden would already be behind
• 1:07:03
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump in organizing and making sure that he's got
• 1:07:07
  Speaker 1: the campaign he needs. And so we need to recruit
• 1:07:10
  Speaker 1: and train organizers all over the country, help people, help
• 1:07:14
  Speaker 1: the Democratic Party build the ground game that we need.
• 1:07:17
  Speaker 1: You can go to votesaveamerica.com slash field. Again, we're only $ 100, 000 away.
• 1:07:21
  Speaker 1: So it'd be great if you could help. Also on Tuesday,
• 1:07:24
  Speaker 1: the date of the primary in Illinois, Arizona, Ohio, and Florida.
• 1:07:30
  Speaker 1: It's not just a presidential primary. There's a big primary
• 1:07:32
  Speaker 1: in Illinois that I just mentioned. Democrat Marie Newman is
• 1:07:35
  Speaker 1: running in a primary race against conservative Democrat Dan Lipinski
• 1:07:39
  Speaker 1: in the Illinois Third. Lipinski voted against the Affordable Care Act.
• 1:07:43
  Speaker 1: He's anti-choice, and he's bad on LGBT rights, and yet
• 1:07:46
  Speaker 1: somehow he's still a Democrat in Congress. In 2018, you
• 1:07:50
  Speaker 1: might remember, Marie Newman lost to Lipinski by just over 2,000 votes.
• 1:07:55
  Speaker 1: So you can learn more, volunteer, or donate to Marie
• 1:07:57
  Speaker 1: at marienewmanforcongress.com. Just two little things that you can do
• 1:08:03
  Speaker 1: while you're hanging around. waiting for this to end. All right.
• 1:08:08
  Speaker 1: So with that, when we come back, we will have
• 1:08:10
  Speaker 1: Dan's interview with Governor Gavin Newsom.
• 1:08:20
  Speaker 2: We are now pleased to be joined by California Governor
• 1:08:22
  Speaker 2: Gavin Newsom. Governor Newsom, welcome to Pod Save America.
• 1:08:26
  Speaker 4: Good to be here. Good to be with you.
• 1:08:29
  Speaker 2: Governor Newsom, you made a very big announcement about how
• 1:08:32
  Speaker 2: California was dealing with the coronavirus. Can you tell our
• 1:08:34
  Speaker 2: listeners what you announced today and why you announced it?
• 1:08:37
  Speaker 4: Well, just in an effort to protect public health, moreover,
• 1:08:40
  Speaker 4: to slow down this rate of transmission of COVID-19, we
• 1:08:43
  Speaker 4: want to see the postponement or the cancellation all over
• 1:08:47
  Speaker 4: the state of California of gatherings that are non-essential, that
• 1:08:51
  Speaker 4: are greater than 250 people. And the whole idea is
• 1:08:54
  Speaker 4: to and forgive me for using this kind of language,
• 1:08:57
  Speaker 4: but it's direct. We want to maximize inconvenience. to the
• 1:09:01
  Speaker 4: issues that are non-essential so that we can minimize the
• 1:09:04
  Speaker 4: impact on things that are essential in our lives. So
• 1:09:06
  Speaker 4: that's the point of this.
• 1:09:08
  Speaker 2: So that's any gatherings over 250 people. And is that
• 1:09:13
  Speaker 2: a recommendation from the state of California?
• 1:09:16
  Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a recommendation, but it was followed up with
• 1:09:19
  Speaker 4: an executive order which directs that guidance. Look, I have
• 1:09:23
  Speaker 4: the legal authority to enforce, but that enforcement comes with
• 1:09:28
  Speaker 4: me triggering, and this... It might sound hysterical, but it shouldn't.
• 1:09:33
  Speaker 4: But you can trigger a martial law and enforce. I
• 1:09:36
  Speaker 4: don't believe we need to do that. The vast majority
• 1:09:39
  Speaker 4: of people I've talked to up and down the state,
• 1:09:41
  Speaker 4: health directors, overwhelmingly were supportive of this director, business community,
• 1:09:46
  Speaker 4: overwhelmingly supportive. So we expect no deviation from this. I
• 1:09:50
  Speaker 4: think the only deviation will be some people will want
• 1:09:52
  Speaker 4: to go to smaller numbers within communities below 250 thresholds.
• 1:09:59
  Speaker 2: And there has been some conversation about large theme parks
• 1:10:03
  Speaker 2: like Disneyland and elsewhere. Any update on that?
• 1:10:07
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they'll be making an announcement very, very shortly, other
• 1:10:12
  Speaker 4: theme parks as well. We put this announcement out late
• 1:10:15
  Speaker 4: last night, and the theme parks had some protocols and
• 1:10:19
  Speaker 4: processes they wanted to advance on their own. They're going
• 1:10:22
  Speaker 4: to make those announcements momentarily, and I would expect they're
• 1:10:26
  Speaker 4: moving in the direction and the spirit of our directive.
• 1:10:29
  Speaker 2: Obviously, a response to a pandemic like this requires cooperation
• 1:10:33
  Speaker 2: between state and federal governments. How has your interaction with
• 1:10:36
  Speaker 2: the Trump administration been? Are there things that you need
• 1:10:39
  Speaker 2: that they have not yet provided you?
• 1:10:42
  Speaker 4: Bottom, you know, it's interesting. California was front and center
• 1:10:45
  Speaker 4: on this going back to late December when we first
• 1:10:47
  Speaker 4: had our initial contact with the administration. For one reason,
• 1:10:50
  Speaker 4: we were willing to do what other states were not
• 1:10:52
  Speaker 4: willing to do. And with all due respect, what other
• 1:10:54
  Speaker 4: states still are unwilling to do, and that's to repatriate Americans.
• 1:10:59
  Speaker 4: A lot of states, let's be specific here, the state
• 1:11:02
  Speaker 4: of Texas won't take any repatriated people off this Grand
• 1:11:06
  Speaker 4: Princess cruise line that are not Texans. Contrast that to
• 1:11:10
  Speaker 4: California that took in not only, or is taking in
• 1:11:13
  Speaker 4: not only people off that ship from overseas and from
• 1:11:17
  Speaker 4: other states, but we also took six flights from overseas
• 1:11:21
  Speaker 4: in January. And so we've had a framework of engagement
• 1:11:24
  Speaker 4: with the administration and as a consequence have been developing
• 1:11:27
  Speaker 4: a partnership where to answer your question, everything we've asked for,
• 1:11:30
  Speaker 4: we've gotten with one caveat, that we have all been
• 1:11:34
  Speaker 4: frustrated by the testing protocols. And I want to make
• 1:11:37
  Speaker 4: this clear. These test kits do not allow you to test.
• 1:11:41
  Speaker 4: You need a test kit, but you also have to
• 1:11:44
  Speaker 4: have an extraction kit, what they call this RNA kit,
• 1:11:48
  Speaker 4: which is about these reagents, these chemicals that allow the
• 1:11:52
  Speaker 4: testing kit to be fully functional. And one of the
• 1:11:55
  Speaker 4: mythologies out there that is being perpetuated across the board
• 1:11:59
  Speaker 4: because it's not socialized broadly with the public, or for
• 1:12:02
  Speaker 4: that matter, even with policymakers that I think are unaware
• 1:12:05
  Speaker 4: of this, is that we are having a backlog on
• 1:12:08
  Speaker 4: the reagents. So when you hear the test kits, that's
• 1:12:11
  Speaker 4: one thing, but you have to know there's other points
• 1:12:14
  Speaker 4: of that protocol and there's an ingredient list, so to speak,
• 1:12:17
  Speaker 4: that has to be also part of that conversation.
• 1:12:20
  Speaker 2: Quest and these.
• 1:12:22
  Speaker 4: Other commercial labs will absolve that anxiety and Because as
• 1:12:26
  Speaker 4: they ramp up, they have automated systems that will provide
• 1:12:30
  Speaker 4: for full comprehensive testing. But until they're fully functioning and
• 1:12:35
  Speaker 4: they're in real time doing so, this remains an impediment
• 1:12:39
  Speaker 4: to fully testing what we want in terms of the
• 1:12:41
  Speaker 4: total numbers.
• 1:12:44
  Speaker 2: Do you have a sense of what is causing the slowdown,
• 1:12:46
  Speaker 2: both on the test kits and the reagent specifically, as
• 1:12:48
  Speaker 2: you're talking about? Is there something that could be done
• 1:12:50
  Speaker 2: to speed it up that is not being done?
• 1:12:53
  Speaker 4: Well, they're working in real time on it, the best
• 1:12:55
  Speaker 4: I can say, and it's been a point of frustration. Look,
• 1:12:57
  Speaker 4: we have over 8,000 tests that we have in our
• 1:13:00
  Speaker 4: 18 labs in the state of California. Right now, we
• 1:13:02
  Speaker 4: have none of them are backlogged. Yesterday, when I talked
• 1:13:05
  Speaker 4: to you this time yesterday, we had 180 that were
• 1:13:07
  Speaker 4: backlogged because some of our clinics didn't have the reagents
• 1:13:11
  Speaker 4: and the RNA extraction kits. We were able to shift
• 1:13:15
  Speaker 4: through some of those labs, excess kits that existed in
• 1:13:18
  Speaker 4: other labs, but the federal government needs to provide more
• 1:13:21
  Speaker 4: of those kits But the good news is we transitioned
• 1:13:24
  Speaker 4: from state and community labs and federal labs into the
• 1:13:28
  Speaker 4: commercial market. The commercial markets like Quest that operates in California,
• 1:13:33
  Speaker 4: down in San Juan Capistrano, they're already doing 1,200 tests
• 1:13:36
  Speaker 4: a day. They'll have capacity for 5,000 by the 24th
• 1:13:40
  Speaker 4: of this month because they have these new automated processes.
• 1:13:44
  Speaker 4: And so we're going to see this migrate away from
• 1:13:47
  Speaker 4: the anxiety I just expressed that got us here. to
• 1:13:50
  Speaker 4: a different protocol that gives me more confidence moving forward.
• 1:13:55
  Speaker 2: Obviously, in addition to the health impact, which I know
• 1:13:58
  Speaker 2: is your focus and everyone else's primary focus, the coronavirus
• 1:14:01
  Speaker 2: has serious economic consequences. How is California thinking about those consequences?
• 1:14:07
  Speaker 2: What do you guys want to do about it? And
• 1:14:09
  Speaker 2: what do you want to see the federal government do
• 1:14:11
  Speaker 2: to help minimize the economic repercussions of this?
• 1:14:15
  Speaker 4: Yeah, remarkably, a few weeks ago, I was doing my
• 1:14:17
  Speaker 4: state of the state talking about record low on employment,
• 1:14:20
  Speaker 4: record high reserves and an operating surplus of $ 5. 6 billion.
• 1:14:25
  Speaker 4: And clearly, we're in the middle of our budget negotiations.
• 1:14:29
  Speaker 2: We're going to have to augment them.
• 1:14:30
  Speaker 4: We assumed the S & P would be at 3,120
• 1:14:34
  Speaker 4: by the end of Q1 of this year. Obviously, the
• 1:14:37
  Speaker 4: markets have dropped significantly. So that is the economic health
• 1:14:41
  Speaker 4: of the state budget. But the economic reality of households,
• 1:14:44
  Speaker 4: and medium and small businesses is what concerns me the most.
• 1:14:48
  Speaker 4: And in that respect, we are doing, we just waived
• 1:14:50
  Speaker 4: under an emergency declaration executive order last night, the week-long
• 1:14:55
  Speaker 4: delay for getting unemployment insurance, the week-long delay of getting
• 1:14:58
  Speaker 4: disability insurance slash sick leave. And we did similarly what
• 1:15:02
  Speaker 4: the federal government did to waive penalties and fines associated
• 1:15:06
  Speaker 4: with delay and getting your taxes done. And in addition
• 1:15:09
  Speaker 4: to that, we are working hand in glove with Speaker
• 1:15:13
  Speaker 4: Pelosi and with our congressional representatives to make sure that
• 1:15:17
  Speaker 4: whatever the package that comes out in negotiation, the federal level,
• 1:15:21
  Speaker 4: really is honing in on hourly workers, on the most
• 1:15:25
  Speaker 4: vulnerable Americans, those that are most impacted in the hospitality
• 1:15:29
  Speaker 4: and retail restaurant industries, to make sure that they're secure.
• 1:15:34
  Speaker 2: Governor, one last question before I let you get back
• 1:15:36
  Speaker 2: to what I know is a very busy day, but
• 1:15:39
  Speaker 2: where should people go to get the most up-to-date and
• 1:15:42
  Speaker 2: accurate information?
• 1:15:44
  Speaker 4: I mean, I think the most immediate and still most
• 1:15:48
  Speaker 4: reliable is local health departments, because you have to contextualize
• 1:15:52
  Speaker 4: conditions where you are. By the time it feeds up
• 1:15:55
  Speaker 4: the state, certainly by the time it feeds up the
• 1:15:56
  Speaker 4: federal government, conditions can change. So I always maintain, and
• 1:16:00
  Speaker 4: perhaps that's a former mayor saying that, that the more
• 1:16:04
  Speaker 4: immediate sites are local. That said, this coronavirus.gov is a
• 1:16:09
  Speaker 4: pretty good aggregated site just broadly of how one should
• 1:16:13
  Speaker 4: conduct themselves in terms of their own social distancing strategies,
• 1:16:16
  Speaker 4: their families, and their businesses. And it actually is remarkably,
• 1:16:20
  Speaker 4: I think, a comprehensive site the federal government is providing.
• 1:16:25
  Speaker 2: Governor Newsom, thank you so much for being on Pod
• 1:16:28
  Speaker 2: Save America, and good luck with everything you're dealing with
• 1:16:31
  Speaker 2: right now.
• 1:16:32
  Speaker 4: My pleasure. We'll get through this, and I appreciate the
• 1:16:34
  Speaker 4: good work you guys are doing telling the truth about
• 1:16:37
  Speaker 4: what's going on out there.
• 1:16:38
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Governor.
• 1:16:41
  Speaker 1: Thanks to Governor Gavin Newsom for joining us today. And Dan,
• 1:16:45
  Speaker 1: I'll talk to you soon.
• 1:16:46
  Speaker 2: All right. Bye, everyone.
• 1:16:47
  Speaker 3: Bye.
• 1:16:48
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a product of Crooked Media. The
• 1:16:50
  Speaker 1: executive producer is Michael Martinez. Our assistant producer is Jordan Waller.
• 1:16:54
  Speaker 1: It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle Seglin is
• 1:16:57
  Speaker 1: our sound engineer. Thanks to Tanya Somanator, Katie Long, Roman Papadimitriou,
• 1:17:01
  Speaker 1: Caroline Reston, and Elisa Gutierrez for production support. And to
• 1:17:04
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• 1:17:08
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• 1:17:11
  Speaker 1: every week.