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When The Mask You Wear Starts Absorbing You · Unstoppable You

• Amber Fields (00:00): It's hard because you get so used to the performing. You get so used to masking up and showing up like everybody needs you to show up that you've never spent any time really trying to understand who you are at the core. You show up for everybody, you're always positive, but you are never authentic and open about what's really going on in your life and how you feel about things. And I know underneath all of that, there's some stuff. Bree Katulak (00:25): Hey, I'm Bree and this is Unstoppable You, the podcast for women ready to stop choosing between their dreams, family, and personal growth. My seven-year-old daughter knows exactly what she needs. She calls it her cuddle tank. When it's empty, she doesn't question whether she should need connection. She doesn't wonder whether cuddling is productive. She doesn't check whether everyone else's needs have been met first. She just knows my cuddle tank is empty. I need you. And sometimes I wonder, when do we stop knowing? Hey there. Welcome back. When we're little, there are things we seem to know instinctively. What makes us happy? What scares us? What fills us up? What we need. And when life starts adding layers, family, friends, school, faith, work, a marriage, motherhood, community, sometimes they help reveal who we are. The challenge is that sometimes we get so good at performing what a role requires that we stop noticing the difference between being shaped by our lives and disappearing inside them. (01:43): Today's guest, Amber Fields, knows something about performance. As a child, she helped raise her siblings while her parents worked. She learned to put on the happy face and make sure everyone around her was okay, regardless of how she felt. She became a cheerleader, then a journalist, and ultimately a broadcaster. And eventually she realized she'd spent a lot of her life becoming really good at being who the moment required. But underneath all those performances and masks was a harder question. Who is Amber? She started searching. She got different jobs, different experiences, trying to understand what she was good at, what she loved, and where she belonged until one day her husband said something she still remembers exactly where she was standing when she heard it. When are you going to realize the thing you're searching for already lives inside of you? Today, we're talking about the identities we inherit, the roles we perform, the shoulds we accumulate, and how we find our way back to ourselves without abandoning all the people and responsibilities that we genuinely love. (03:03): Because maybe finding yourself isn't about uncovering some final fixed version of who you really are. Maybe it's learning to understand who you've been, recognize who you are today, listen to how you're experienced by the people around you, and intentionally choose who you're becoming next. Who am I? Isn't a question we're supposed to answer once. It's a conversation we're supposed to keep having. (03:37): Amber, thank you so much for being on the show today. I'm really excited about the conversation we're going to have. First, I want to start out with, can you explain to me what matters most to you in this season of your life and how do you know it's the most important? Amber Fields (03:51): First of all, thanks for having me. I'm excited to have this conversation. It's going to go pretty deep, I think, and it's one that I don't often get to share. And so I'm excited for the opportunity. On that note, I have thought a lot about that over the last couple weeks of preparation for this because I think you get into just living life and doing the things and not really intentionally paying attention to what matters. And that is something for me that I want to keep at the top of my mind all the time. The things that matter to me most right now are my family. I have five kiddos. They're all in different seasons of their life. I have a 26-year-old that is in the army. He's married and has a little girl. I'm a Lola, and so love that. They live in Kansas, so they're kind of far away. (04:33): So when they get to come home and visit, it's a really big deal. Our 25-year-old is a hairstylist and she is getting married next October, so she got engaged in July. My 22-year-old just graduated from college. She just got a job at Delta as a flight attendant. And then I have these two crazy twins, boy-girl twins that are 15, that are sophomores in high school. All of them are in really important seasons of their lives. And so for my husband and I, it's really important to be present for them while also growing in our careers and focused on us as adults and not necessarily just in the working to raise kid mode. Now we are in that season of building our careers and figuring out who we are and what we want to be in the next season of our lives and how we want to use our gifts and talents. (05:21): So that's what matters most to us right now. Bree Katulak (05:24): That's great. And I think so many people are going through a very similar situation too, right? So I mean, how different do you think the answer that you just gave would be from an earlier version of Amber when maybe your kiddos were younger or before you had had kids? Amber Fields (05:39): I think the answer is the same because they've always been at the forefront of us. Before I got married, it was all about my career. I was highly focused on what I was going to do in my life before I realized that how quickly I was going to get married. My husband had these two small kids that we were going to raise together, and it just shifted my perspective on what mattered most. And I always wanted to be a mom and a wife and have a family, and I was always of the mindset that I could have both. I just had to figure out what that looked like. Bree Katulak (06:10): Tell me more about that. What feelings did that bring? And I guess what were the struggles that you were working through at that time? Amber Fields (06:16): I had a plan, Bree. I was going to be a journalist. I was going to be a television news anchor. I was getting ready to graduate college when I met my husband, but the thought of moving him away from that family, because you cannot start here in Indy, it's where we live, you cannot start. It's a top 25 market, at least 25 years ago it was. And so my first job offer was in Podunk, Iowa, making $27,500 for the year. And it just wasn't worth it to me, which was a tough decision, Bree, because I was the first person in my family to go to college. I was paying for it myself. And to really give up on this dream to make a different choice than choosing my family. Now, the other caveat to this was it was around nine eleven. I was actually on the air the day of nine eleven. (07:03): And if I had had any questions around what this career choice was going to be for me, that really solidified whether or not it was the right choice because it was devastating as it was for everybody. And so I just was like, I don't know. It just brought up a lot of questions for me and it solidified that maybe now isn't the time to chase this career dream. Maybe being a mom and a wife is really the priority here. Bree Katulak (07:25): I think that's really important that you were able to make that distinction on what your priority was and make sure that that decision was intentional. But did you ever grieve losing that dream that you spoke about? And how did that make you feel? Amber Fields (07:40): Yeah, because I had a plan and I'm a planner. I like to follow the plan and do the things I set out to do. I'm really driven. I have a high level of accountability for myself and for others, and I needed to be held accountable for making sure that I made good use of the money that I spent on this degree. So I spent a lot of years, Bree, grieving that decision, grieving who I thought I was, but also trying to be present for the, this is the decision that you made, this is the choice that you made. And I love being a stepmom and a mom and a wife and taking care of these five kids and living this amazing life and working really hard to create something that I didn't grow up having and I did grieve it. And there are new possibilities and new opportunities. (08:26): Once the kids got old enough, we got to come up for air a little bit and go, who are we really and what do we really want for the next season of our life? And that was a whole roller coaster in and of itself. Bree Katulak (08:38): Yeah. Oh, I'm sure. And we'll get into that for sure. So you just mentioned something that I want to dive a little bit deeper into. You mentioned something that you didn't have when you were growing up. So can you tell us a little bit more about who you were before and then how it has shaped who you wanted to become? Amber Fields (08:58): Growing up, my parents, we didn't have a ton of money. We were pretty on the poor side back when, and it was in the '80s, so interest rates were really high, 11, 12, 13%. We didn't have money for daycare. So my mom worked two jobs day and night. My dad worked nights so he could be at home with us kids during the day, but he also had to sleep. And so I ended up being at the age of five and on the caretaker for my younger sister and younger brother, five. I learned how to clean the house and how to do the dishes and how to cook for them. My parents were there, but they were typically, my dad was sleeping or my mom was distracted doing other things to take care of our family. And so I became kind of a mother figure over my siblings. (09:41): I grew up really fast and I'm a caretaker by nature, all of the typical things that allowed for me to take care of them and to make sure that they were happy and that they had everything that they needed at such a young age. And it was a big responsibility and I was often worn out and tired and forgot what it looked like to be a kid sometimes. Bree Katulak (10:02): I want to take a minute and just recognize how amazing that is that you were able to take all of that on. And knowing you, you probably did it with such grace and wearing a smile most of the time and a lot of energy, and I commend you for that. But having to suppress or not get to experience a lot of what a normal childhood would look like, did you ever feel like you lost a part of yourself even as a child or felt like you had to perform? Amber Fields (10:29): For sure performing because my dad was in the military, so he had expectations and there wasn't really much room to color outside the lines and be respectful. And I wanted approval. I wanted to make sure that I was doing a good job because I also saw the hardship that we were living inside of. I don't know how a five, seven, nine-year-old can see those things or understand that those things are happening. However, it was reality and I saw how tired my mom was. And my thought was if I could perform or if I could help her and take care of this for her, then it's less stressful for her. And then there's some dynamics to my father relationships. I have a stepdad who raised me. My real dad came into my life when I was 12. I'm not a victim of this, but it is the reality. (11:15): There were some unworthiness and questions of whether or not I was loved by my father figure because he was going through some hard things too. What I want to say here, because they may listen someday, is that I have the best relationships with both of my dads that I've ever had in my life, and I'm grateful for who they were in my life because it definitely created who I am today. Bree Katulak (11:38): I also relate to having that desire to please, or I don't want to call it being a people pleaser all the time because I don't think it's everyone, but in certain environments, I absolutely want to make sure I am performing and that my parents, I didn't add stress to the situation that they were in and keeping that harmony as well. Going through all of that, especially at such a young age and throughout your adolescence, how do you know which parts of you are authentically yours and which parts you were simply performing? Amber Fields (12:13): It's hard because you get so used to the performing. You get so used to masking up and showing up like everybody needs you to show up. You've never spent any time really trying to understand who you are at the core. I had a girlfriend and one day she called me on the phone. She was frustrated with me because I had not shown up for her for something. And she said, "Sometimes I'm just not a hundred percent sure what Amber I'm going to get." She said, "You show up for everybody. You're always positive, but you are never authentic and open about what's really going on in your life and how you feel about things. And I know underneath all of that, there's some stuff." And I thought in a roundabout way, thank you for giving me permission to show up authentically who I am and what is happening in my life. (13:00): And I genuinely, Bree, have a positive attitude about even bad things that are happening in life. I think everything happens for a reason. There's a lesson to be learned in all of those things. But her comment was, "I don't always have to perform. I don't always have to put on a face, especially for the people where it is safe." And she deemed herself safe. And I was probably in my mid - 20s when this conversation happened. Bree Katulak (13:23): Wow. That's pretty powerful. And was that the moment or were there other moments? Did you then take a self-reflection journey after that happened? Amber Fields (13:32): Oh, for sure. Because then I was like, "What do you mean I'm performing?" And I thought, "Wow, where did I learn to do that? Why do I do that?" And then I started to reflect back on my childhood. When I was young, there was no room to express how I felt about anything because I did not want to add any additional stress to my parents. So I just learned to suppress. I just learned to say, "I'm okay. In the end, I'm going to be okay." At the age of 12, I got baptized, and so I leaned very heavily in on my faith in those situations. It gave me a positive connotation on life to where it was like, it could be worse. So I started to peel back the onion layers. I started to ask myself questions like, "Help me notice when I am doing this. (14:14): Help me bring a level of self-awareness when I am showing up." And this is literally like a conversation I'm having with myself. The biggest problem, Bree, is a lot of us do not spend time with ourselves to really understand what that looks like and who we are. And by the time we start to do it, we've created all of these performances or masks or whatever they are to where we can't even recognize who we are at the core. Bree Katulak (14:38): Everything you've said hits so hard to me right now because I think what started me on this journey and ultimately creating the podcast was there was one morning when I woke up and I was president and CEO at the time, and it was before a board meeting. I had spent the last month preparing and going through my notes with my team and everything. And I remember waking up that morning after a really good night's sleep and just saying, "Which version of Bree has to show up today?" And that stopped me in my tracks. I went through with the board meeting, it went well. But then after that board meeting and that whoosh of relief just kind of came over me, I took a step back and said, "We need to figure this out." And I started that self-reflection journey because so often we get so wrapped up in everything that we have going on in our lives, whether it's work, being a mom, your friends, taking care of your aging parents, whatever your situation looks like, that we don't take the time to just hit time out. (15:40): Let's just have quiet time and think and reflect. And I think that was very meaningful and impactful for me, but it's interesting how both of our situations got us to that point. You have said throughout our conversations preparing for this episode that you are in the camp or in the belief of thinking that we don't have one identity as an individual. And I had previously been looking at it like trying to find myself and peeling back all of the different layers of family, society, how we're shaped throughout our lives. Can you walk me through your philosophy? Because I thought it was a really good reframe that I've really enjoyed diving deeper into over the last several weeks. Amber Fields (16:24): I love this because I went through a leadership training about 12 years ago that really reframed this conversation for me because we're so innocent. There's nothing in the computer up here and everything that we're exposed to, our parents, the amount of love, the lack there, whatever it is, is what really creates who we become. And over time, we are not the same people that we were at 21 that we are at 45. I believe that your identity is always evolving and we're chasing and we're looking for this one thing about who we are or what we were created to be. And we spend so much time spiraling in this place where we're just not spending enough time figuring out who we are today. Bree Katulak (17:08): And that's what I've loved exploring even more and more. And the fact that we are evolving and chasing a thing, but the thing is never complete, how do you think the human mind can start accepting that and being okay with the constant change and evolution? Amber Fields (17:27): I can tell you this from experience because prior to taking that leadership course, I was taking all kinds of leadership things. I am a constant learner. I love to read books and to listen to podcasts. Obviously back then that wasn't a big thing. I was taking all these classes and doing all of this work and it was on the tail end. My kids were probably nine or 10, were starting to embark on a season of them being a little more independent. My older kids were teenagers. I had a little more time to think about me and my marriage and all of these things. And I'm like, none of this is actually where I want it to be. I do not feel whole. There's something that I'm chasing. There's something that I'm missing. And my husband looks at me one night because I'm headed out to go to some event and he says, "At what point are you going to stop chasing the thing that already exists within you?" And I was like, "What? (18:14): I don't know." I'm like, "If it's there, I can't find it. I can't see it." And he said, "You need a mirror. You need something so that you can see the thing that you're chasing. We all already see it. You can't because you are so obsessed with finding this thing and focusing on your lack and not what is in there." And I just though, okay. So then I had to be in huge discovery for a very long time and being in discovery of what that is and what freedom that brought Bree, because it was like, oh, well, somebody sees it and what a gift that it was my spouse, which by the way, at that season of our life, we weren't in a good spot. Bree Katulak (18:52): If you weren't in a good spot and he did give you that feedback that ultimately you're saying gave you freedom, what did you feel in that moment? Amber Fields (19:00): Disappointment. Bree Katulak (19:01): Yeah. Okay. Amber Fields (19:02): I was like, how did I miss that? And what are you seeing? Well, and it's almost like dismissal, you know what I mean? Because I expect him to think that about me. I expect him to say those things of me, right? But he wasn't saying it like a spouse. He was saying it like a friend, like someone that I see you, I believe in you. You just have to believe in yourself because if you don't, you're going to take the rest of us down with you. I don't live my life for me, Bri. I don't really think anyone does. I think we live our life for the people that we impact. Bree Katulak (19:32): I truly honestly believe that, and I'm glad he told you that because you are making such a big impact in your family and the external community and the people you work with. So do you have something that you can put your finger on that you were searching for externally now that you've done a lot of self-reflection? I know it's never done, but Amber Fields (19:51): No, there are two things, validation and worthiness. Bree Katulak (19:54): Yes. Okay. Amber Fields (19:55): I felt really unworthy in my life. I just did not deserve to be the highest and best version of myself. Everybody makes mistakes in their life, and sometimes you can focus on the negative more than you can see the positive or what good you are. There were just some stories, some maps that were going on in my head that were telling me I wasn't good enough, that I wasn't doing enough. And so always in conversations, unknowingly looking for validation from people that I am loved, that I deserve to be loved, that I am capable of loving other people the way that they want to be loved. And so yeah, those were the things that I found. Bree Katulak (20:32): I love what you just said because I've just started posting some reels and just short snippets of thoughts that I've had. And one of the things I keep coming back to is the enough chase and the worthiness equation. And the worthiness equation to me historically was always achievement equals worthiness. That equation simply doesn't balance. It doesn't equal each other. And then with the enough chase is always looking for the next thing, but the finish line just always keeps moving because worthiness and enoughness was never meant to be answered by one achievement or one accomplishment. And that's what I'm really starting to dive deeper to in my research and just understanding how all of that works. But another thought popped into my mind as you were saying that, I don't think it's fair to blame any one thing because there are so many variables in life. (21:28): So much of what you were saying reminds me of social media though, and wanting the likes or the loves or the comments or being shared. I grew up and still felt this way in high school before social media existed. We have this innate desire as humans. I don't want to blame social media, but I think it amplifies it to a certain extent. Do you think the younger generations are going to have a harder time wrestling with this or do you think it'll be ultimately similar or the same? Amber Fields (21:57): Oh, I think it's worse. You have four daughters. I have three daughters of my five kids, and it is wild what I'm watching them go through. My 22-year-old called me one day and she was like, "Mom, I just don't recognize myself anymore. I feel like I do not know who I am." I stopped everything and had a 45-minute conversation with her about what it feels like and what it looks like to spend time with yourself and that it is okay to be alone and be in discovery because you're a really interesting person. You are smart, you are driven, but mom and dad and your friends and your family can't tell that about yourself. You really have to go be in discovery on your own on what that means for you. And she was like, "Mom, this is wild." She was like, "I didn't know that it was okay to be alone." And I was like, "I didn't know at your age either, Olivia, but I wish someone would've told me at 21, 22, that it was okay to like me, to love myself, to understand who I am and to do the hard work so that I didn't have to do it in my 30s and 40s after I was trying to raise kids. (23:02): It was a great conversation. And so I'm trying to help the younger generations understand what that looks like earlier on because it will help them. It will serve them in hard conversations, in building a career, in building their family life if they can truly understand. I think the divorce rates will go down. Bree Katulak (23:18): I do too. Amber Fields (23:19): Absolutely. If we fully understand who we are and what we want and what matters to us in our 20s, it'll change. What matters to me in my 40s is very different than what mattered to me in my 20s and 30s. Bree Katulak (23:30): But that's all a part about the growth and the evolution of who you are, for sure. I'm so glad you were able to have that conversation because that's exactly what I'm trying to do as well and have those conversations with my daughter and say, okay, look at the life we have and how I got there, but it can be incredibly different with how you get there as long as you're making those intentional decisions that align with your core values and having those conversations earlier on is so important. Amber Fields (24:01): We have a 15-year-old daughter and she stopped wearing dresses at the age of seven because someone made fun of her because she was in a dress. For three, four years, she didn't wear a dress because someone made fun of her. I'm like, how quickly we can attach to feedback. It wasn't small to her at the time, but how does that show up as an adult when somebody gives you feedback that you believe it's kind of hidden, right? You believe this feedback about yourself already and then someone validates it, then you believe them and then it becomes a thing. It doesn't have to be that way. You don't have to own that feedback. If you don't resonate with it, change it. Bree Katulak (24:42): Exactly. Very true. And it's one data point, but it doesn't have to be the point that then you circle your whole belief system around. So what does being unstoppable mean to you in both your personal and work life? Amber Fields (24:59): Being unstoppable for me means that I get to live the life I want to live and not let the obstacles get in the way. I am a builder. I am a woman who lives with courage and with intention, and I want people to see the possibility in their lives, and I will not stop because things get in the way. It is frustrating, it is hard, but you have to persevere. And I'm of the mindset that you don't go over things or around things, you get through things. It's in the through that you actually learn the real lessons. Bree Katulak (25:35): Yeah, I think that's absolutely fantastic. Being unstoppable and persevering, I used to think I had to do it on my own. That's the part that depleted me or made me lose a part of myself as well. But as I've grown throughout my leadership journey and just in general, I've realized no, actually knowing when to bring people in and ask for help has helped me become a better leader, a better mother, a better human, I think in general. How has that worked in your journey? Amber Fields (26:05): There have been many opportunities, Bree, in my career where someone will say something and it would cause pause and go, I could take that feedback. One of my bosses said to me, I was in my late 30s and he had said, "You're really smart and you're really driven, and I just would've expected you to be further along in your career." And I was feeding that story that I was telling myself about grieving the career that I didn't follow, validating that I wasn't far enough along in my career, validating all those insecurities that I had. I could have been wrecked at that feedback. And actually it fuels a part of you that's like, "I appreciate your feedback. I chose to focus on my family and to work jobs that supported feeding them and not necessarily feeding my soul and feeding holistically who I am as a human, and I'm okay with that." And so I just kept moving through that feedback and I appreciate him saying that because it brought a level of awareness to me that I didn't even know I was still living in that lack space, the lacking worthiness, the lacking of enough, and it brought it to the surface and allowed for me to process it out and go, "That doesn't have to be my story anymore. Bree Katulak (27:18): It doesn't. And look at all that you've done now and very quickly." I want to push on authenticity from a couple of different angles. How do you think that we distinguish living authentically from simply doing whatever we want in life? Amber Fields (27:35): I love the questions that you ask, Bree. They are so thought-provoking. I sat on this question for a full 24 hours. I was like, "Man, this is a good one." I think first of all, you have to know who you authentically are in order for you to make the choices of doing the things that you want to do. Prior to knowing my authentic self, I just did stuff because people asked me to. And then to your point, carrying all of the weight and doing all of the things, actually I was saying yes to things that were not authentic yeses for me. I was doing it for people pleasing, for the accolades, for the because I can, because I know how, but that's not the highest and best use of myself, of my talents always. I have a coach and in all of our coaching sessions, she was like, "I need you to pay attention to the highest and best use of your skills and your gifts in this season of your life. (28:35): Just because you can do it does not mean that you should be doing it." The distinguishing of and the sitting with yourself and trying to figure out, well, what is the highest and best use of me today? I don't know. That was Bree Katulak (28:48): Going to be my next question, so I'm glad you went there. Amber Fields (28:51): Yeah, it was an interesting ride to try to figure that out. And I mean it personally and professionally because my kids are older now. They don't need us in the same way that they used to, but they do still need us. You only share the opinions and your thoughts when asked and not pouring into your adult children in that way and giving them the highest best of who we think they need us to be today, not mothering, not fathering, but showing up for them in an authentic way. Caring for them just looks different. Same thing with our 15-year-olds. Caring for them looks different, and I think it's the same in our workspace. Look, I'm a high achieving sales person that has had a lot of career life and selling, but today my highest and best use is not necessarily being the one doing all of the sales. (29:34): It's creating an environment for the teams to do their best work. Bree Katulak (29:39): Do you feel like you have a pretty good filter process where you can run through it pretty quickly in real time? Have you, I'm assuming, been working on that over months, years? Amber Fields (29:49): Yeah, that's only come though, Bree, probably I would say in the last year. I have a really great leadership team that pushes in on those things and stretch. Obviously there's always stretch goal in that, but really pressing into the, are you the one that should be doing that or should you be elevating and delegating that to somebody else? Bree Katulak (30:08): How do you reframe it for your children? Specifically, I'm going to go with the 15-year-old since they're in the teenage adolescence. Amber Fields (30:16): I always say this, raising these two are different than raising the other three because we're in a different time in the world. The social media, the friends, people can say and do things now that they couldn't do before because you can find people's location, you can sit behind a computer and say things that are just damaging to somebody. So we have to have some pretty authentic conversations with our twins about being and reminding them who they are because the influences are strong also. It's very easy to fall in line, to be cool and to be liked and want to do things that you're not supposed to be doing. We walk this walk with one of the two twins all the time because he's so sweet and he's so kind and he wants to love all people and he wants to be there for the people and he wants to feel connected and belong to a group even when the decision is bad, even when it's not going to point him in the right direction. (31:10): And we just had a conversation on Sunday about you get to make the choice to be the person that does something different and shows them the right way versus stepping in line and doing the wrong thing. Because eventually when you keep doing the wrong thing, there are really bad outcomes that come to that and every day is a choice to do the right thing. Bree Katulak (31:33): Going back to the authenticity for yourself, not necessarily your children, one of the things that you said when we were having lunch really hit me, and I like this a lot, I've actually come back to it several times since, you said my no is probably somebody else's yes. Can you tell me more about how you got to that point in your life? Amber Fields (31:53): I said earlier, I have a high level of accountability. I want to be the person that does the things she says she's going to do. And every time you say yes to something, you're taking away from something else. Oftentimes that yes was taking away from my family because I was in curation, I was in discovery, I was trying to figure out who I was, I was trying to figure out the right pathway forward for my career and your whole self. And so I would say yes to these things because I would believe that it would bring me closer to that thing. And I'm not saying it didn't, Bri, it's possible that it did. But then I started to see the deficits in my family because I was working too much. I was driving too hard. And there were people around me that were looking for opportunities to grow and I was taking them. (32:36): That's not who I am either. I want to be the person that creates environments where people get to grow and show them the way. Bree Katulak (32:44): So if someone wants to go about the journey on self-discovery and discovering their authentic true self, but they don't know what that first step is, how would you advise them to take that first step or get started? Amber Fields (32:58): The first step would be spending some time alone, spending some time with yourself, really thinking about what matters to you. Think about your values. What do you value most? Core values. Most human beings have no idea what their core values are and your core values are where you make decisions from. It's what you care most about. So like my husband, one of his core values is integrity. He has a really hard time being around people who do not live a life of integrity and do the things that they say they're going to do, sometimes to a deficit for him because it's hard to be in relationship with people who don't do that. And so we teach and preach, show them what being a man of integrity looks like and allow for them to figure that out because you can't change people's core values. The only thing you could do is understand where they're coming from to meet them where they are. (33:46): Just understanding what matters, understanding where your core values are, where they land, why you have them, and then being in practice of those things, like spending time saying no to the things that don't feed those things, spending time investing in those things. Because in this season of my life, the things that matter most to me are my family. We have some really exciting things happening in our family. My faith, myself, I almost forgot this on my list a few months ago and my friend was like, "I love that you've realigned your priorities except that you forgot you." And I was like, "Oh, because I have arrived in this different spot and I feel like the highest and most authentic version of myself, but it's ever going. It's always evolving." So you don't want to forget that. Fitness, I'm really into fitness. And then my work. (34:31): Most of the time my work is the thing that hits top first because it's so important. I've worked so hard to get here. I love what I do. I feel like we are making a really big impact in all of the companies we work inside of, the people that we touch. It's really easy for my identity to slam up against this work and it can't. You have to be intentional about making sure that everything is in its place all the time. Bree Katulak (34:55): Absolutely. As I was thinking about this question earlier today, we were not talking about this conversation at all, but someone was saying, "Oh, I'm not a runner. I can't be a runner." And I was like, "That's really interesting. Why do you say that? Do you just physically hate the act of it?" And they're like, "No, I can't be alone in my head for that long." They said, "I can run a 5K, but I cannot run a half marathon or a marathon because it's too long and noisy to be alone in my head." And I thought that was really interesting. So what would you tell someone that may have heard you say, take the time and spend the alone time with yourself and then they're squirming in their car wherever they're listening? What's the first step? Amber Fields (35:37): Squirm. Do it anyway because the first time you sit through it, it's really uncomfortable. But the second, third, fourth, fifth time, I feel all of what they just said. I was a sprinter in high school, turned distance runner in my 40s. I started running lots of 10Ks, lots of half marathons all over the country. And I do run with friends, but my training a lot of times is by myself. And after, I don't know, 10 runs with just myself, I actually long for that time to sit in my thoughts and to just be. I think the world is so busy. We have forgot to just be. And look, you can be sitting on your couch in quiet space. You can be in your car. You can be wherever. You don't have to be running, but I think you should allow yourself the space to just be. (36:27): I have never seen more busy people in all of my life, me included. And I think the way that we survive and we thrive in this next season is to be well rested and rested doesn't always look like sleep. Rest does not look like scrolling. Rest looks like so many different things, but I think most of it means just being able to be with yourself. Bree Katulak (36:47): I completely agree. That's awesome. Amber Fields (36:49): So one of the things that has come up for me recently is being needed is not the same thing as being valued. Bree Katulak (36:55): Being needed is not the same thing as being valued. I agree with that. What made you think that specific phrase? Amber Fields (37:05): Because when you have been serving and giving and doing for your family, for your teams at work, they need you. But often in the opposite of overdoing and over-functioning and doing all of these things, sometimes you have to push back and have a boundary around them needing you and allow them the space to figure it out on their own. That's a lot of where we are with our adult children because we could solve the problem for them. Even our 15-year-olds, we could solve this problem for you. However, I'm going to give you the space so that you can figure this out on your own so that you realize you don't actually need me to do these things because one day you'll have to make these decisions on your own. And I'm still valuable to them in allowing for the opportunity to happen even though they didn't need me to fix it necessarily. Bree Katulak (37:56): Absolutely. And I think that translates so well into the work environment too, because there are so many times when I have found myself saying or thinking, "Oh, I'll just do it. I can do it. It'll be faster. Let me do it." But I'm taking away an opportunity for them to learn and grow if I do it that way. And also, is that the best use of my time? Yes, I can do it, but should I be focused on something that maybe the team can't do? Amber Fields (38:22): When we graduate leaders from our programs, one of the loudest, biggest pieces of feedback they get is because we teach them how to empower their teams to do better work and how to figure things out on their own. And oftentimes they're like, "I was just in the way because I was trying to fix their stuff for them, causing more stress for me, not allowing them a chance to grow. And I wish I had known this 20 years ago when I first became a leader." And you're like, "But you have it now, right? You have it now, so now you know." Bree Katulak (38:50): There is always time to change and pivot, for sure. Oh, thank you so much for doing this. Amber Fields (38:57): Yeah, I appreciate you. Bree Katulak (38:58): Have a great rest of your day. Amber Fields (39:00): You too. See you. Bree Katulak (39:01): Here's my challenge for you over the next two weeks. Before you ask, what should I do next? I want you to ask something different. Who's doing the asking? Is it authentically you or is it the executive who thinks she should want the next promotion, the mother who thinks she should never need time for herself? The daughter who doesn't want to disappoint anyone? The friend who always says yes, the achiever who needs another win? Or is it the performer who has gotten incredibly good at figuring out what everyone else wants from her? Because you can't intentionally build a life that fits you until you know exactly who is making the choices. And maybe we can learn from a seven-year-old with an empty cuddle tank. She doesn't have 40 years of expectations to sort through. She knows what matters and she asks for it. Maybe our work isn't to somehow become seven again. (40:03): We've lived, we've grown, and we've changed. We have responsibilities she doesn't have yet, but maybe our work is to get quiet enough to ask, "What do I know about myself that I've stopped listening to?" Amber's husband told her, "The thing you're searching for already lives inside of you. Maybe yours does too. This week, take 10 minutes." I know I'm asking a lot by 10 minutes and ask yourself four questions. Who have I been? Who am I today? How do the people I trust experience me? And who am I becoming? Don't look for one perfect answer. Pay attention to where those answers align and where they don't, because maybe identity isn't something we're supposed to finally figure out. Maybe it's a relationship we're supposed to keep tending. My seven-year-old may know exactly what she needs today, but she isn't finished becoming Emma and I'm not finished becoming Bree. (41:10): Amber isn't finished becoming Amber. Neither are you. So don't ask yourself to perfectly define who you are. Get curious about who you're becoming and whether the life you're building is helping you become more of that person. This is your life. Define it, live it, become unstoppable. Thank you for listening to Unstoppable You. If this episode was helpful, I'd love to know. Connect with me on LinkedIn at Bree Katulak. That's K-A-T-U-L-A-K on LinkedIn and shoot me a message. This show is for you. Be unstoppable. I'll see you next time.