Latest / Simply Bitcoin / Denver Bitcoin & Marshall Long | Bitcoin Mining Debate | Simply Bitcoin IRL

Transcript

Denver Bitcoin & Marshall Long | Bitcoin Mining Debate | Simply Bitcoin IRL · Simply Bitcoin

• 0:00
  Simply Bitcoin IRL. I'm very excited for this show.
• 0:04
  Unfortunately, Denver, Denver, rug pulled us Denver looks like
• 0:10
  he wants to get into solar Bitcoin mining and he's looking
• 0:13
  at the world differently nowadays.
• 0:15
  And you know, it's very upsetting, I'm just kidding, but
• 0:19
  still have the one. The only I have martial law was
• 0:24
  hot. It Why is your long for anyone
• 0:28
  who doesn't know is no G Bitcoin.
• 0:31
  ER this Legend right here you're going to learn a lot about
• 0:34
  because he was mining Bitcoin with a laptop.
• 0:38
  That's right. Mining Bitcoin, with laptop,
• 0:42
  start with that. How was that like Marshall?
• 0:45
  It was fun man. I was digging through some old
• 0:48
  photos and it came across like screenshots from back in the day
• 0:50
  that I took man how the hash rates have changed Does it?
• 0:59
  Does it? Does it make you sad?
• 1:03
  Yeah, just wipe my tears with my Bitcoin.
• 1:05
  No, it's fine. It's fine.
• 1:07
  It's fine. Since you got into early, do you
• 1:13
  have any stories of spending Bitcoin that perhaps you came to
• 1:17
  regret later? Oh yeah, almost every single
• 1:20
  purchase ever. I keep a laptop on this shelf
• 1:24
  right here. That was purchased for today's
• 1:28
  equivalent of like 4 million bucks.
• 1:32
  It's lightweight like work is one of the very first things I
• 1:37
  did with Bitcoin. I was just excited to like send
• 1:39
  it and spend it with people and in the Houston seeing there was
• 1:42
  a guy who still kicking around. Now, his name is Asher.
• 1:48
  He delivered groceries to me for 40 Bitcoin, way.
• 1:51
  Back in the day, he still has those 40 Bitcoin so that one
• 1:55
  stings. But look, man, these are the
• 1:58
  sacrifices we made early days to make sure this stuff.
• 2:01
  Works, you know, so no regrets, you know?
• 2:06
  Oh man I was Bitcoin classic shout out dude.
• 2:10
  Bitcoin classic is still going did I don't know what Bitcoin
• 2:17
  this is a Jato Magoo's favorite topic to discuss will just
• 2:21
  sidebar. Let's just go off the rails,
• 2:23
  whatever. So one of my many Follies in my
• 2:26
  Bitcoin career was starting Bitcoin classic which became
• 2:29
  Bitcoin cash, So that was all thats, all that Bitcoin classic
• 2:35
  was was changing. The one Mega byte block limit to
• 2:38
  literally changing a 1 to a 2 in the code base and Hatta Magoo
• 2:43
  always loves to bring it up. Every time I roast them on
• 2:46
  Twitter, he's like go what about Bitcoin?
• 2:48
  Cloths or don't. So my response to him is nobody
• 2:54
  even knows what you really look like nerd.
• 2:55
  So he's dying Oh the man, the myth, the legend, Adam o is
• 3:05
  here. What's up bro?
• 3:07
  Love you Marshall, but we eat our own guys.
• 3:43
  Good man. It's been a it's been a fun day
• 3:44
  already. It's only like, what are we four
• 3:46
  hours five hours into it? No, this is this is fun.
• 3:49
  I was looking forward to this all week.
• 3:50
  That's why, when I saw the post this morning I was like shit.
• 3:54
  I don't know if I can make that. I started calling everybody on
• 3:56
  my schedule moving things around.
• 3:57
  So glad to be here. Well, I'm glad that you're here.
• 4:00
  Alright, so it's back to the debate.
• 4:03
  Let's get ready. So, I took advantage Opti showed
• 4:08
  me how to do this, if I could remember.
• 4:09
  Here it is. Here it is.
• 4:10
  All right, so Hold on, before you get into this Marcia, how
• 4:15
  you doing, man? I mean, I missed your little
• 4:17
  intro. So, what's up?
• 4:18
  How we roasted you on the intro? This is nothing, man.
• 4:23
  I'm repping the Upstream data hat, you know?
• 4:26
  Oh, I love it on a very real level of Shame.
• 4:30
  Did it has the best swag hats in the game?
• 4:32
  Not no question, Steve has very high standards for any clothing
• 4:37
  and stuff. I'm actually in the midst of
• 4:38
  vetting, all of our web store, you know, like branded stuff and
• 4:43
  If it's not good, we just throw it out.
• 4:44
  So, hell, yeah. Appreciate that.
• 4:46
  Appreciate how. Yeah, this is the way you have
• 4:48
  to do it, right? You have to do it properly.
• 4:49
  All right, so first let's address.
• 4:51
  What is in the title? First, we have to Define what it
• 4:54
  is. We're talking about.
• 4:55
  So absolutely, no pressure. I'm going to put Adam o on the
• 4:59
  spot and at the same time I'm going to a dramatic music.
• 5:05
  Adamo. What is immersion?
• 5:08
  Mining immersion. Mining is a Layman's attempt to
• 5:15
  bend the laws of physics in their favor, without taking the
• 5:20
  load time, preference approach to Data Center construction and
• 5:26
  server operations. I think you know, I can sell
• 5:31
  save some of this for later on but at the end of the day, I
• 5:33
  think if you talk to anybody who has worked with multi-billion
• 5:39
  dollar server Farms, the idea of taking an Asic and immersing it
• 5:43
  in some type of dielectric fluid, in order to optimize its
• 5:47
  performance, you might as well just build a water block, which
• 5:50
  is why I'm here today to say why water cooling.
• 5:52
  I think is ultimately going to just, you know, went out in the
• 5:57
  long run. Sting Marshall.
• 6:04
  What do you have to say about that?
• 6:06
  I don't necessarily disagree with that.
• 6:08
  I think it. remains to be seen the and I've got all kinds of
• 6:15
  prototypes around to. There's unique things that
• 6:19
  immersion helps with outside of just cooling.
• 6:23
  I want your, I want your input on that atom as well.
• 6:27
  But yeah, I don't actually know what wins long-term.
• 6:30
  I think when it comes to building scale, there's unique
• 6:33
  challenges for both and I'm hoping we get a little bit more
• 6:39
  Savvy on this conversation. So, I don't want you want, you
• 6:47
  have, you have probably a lot better insight and experience
• 6:50
  its do. Not like large scale version,
• 6:54
  right? And it certainly large scale
• 6:58
  deployments, right? Me.
• 6:59
  You've dealt with the biggest AC components.
• 7:02
  Probably out there, so I'm curious to hear your.
• 7:06
  I'm curious to hear your thoughts on you know what
• 7:09
  benefits you think. Immersion has the thing that I
• 7:11
  think that I find to be so So interesting and this is, you
• 7:15
  know, this doesn't really make it as part of the conversation,
• 7:17
  all that much because this is kind of an assumed desire is
• 7:20
  this assume desire to overclock and to, you know, push the
• 7:26
  nominal bounds of an Asic right now.
• 7:28
  I think that there's a the assumed the assumed benefit or
• 7:32
  the assume desire is is normal or natural because you typically
• 7:37
  pay for an Asic and it's based on dollars per Tara hash, right?
• 7:41
  So if you pay for an Asic, that's 100 Terror.
• 7:43
  Hashish Are able to get 130 out of it or something.
• 7:45
  I understand people feeling like their dollar goes further and
• 7:48
  translates to more nominal Bitcoin earnings.
• 7:51
  But I have a, I have a tendency. I mean, I can't shut off the
• 7:53
  part of my brain. That that screaming at me.
• 7:56
  You know, in the long term everything is going to Trend
• 7:58
  toward efficiency, right? Everything's going to Trend
• 8:00
  toward the lowest Walker. Tara hash and an overclocking
• 8:03
  will be something that those who do nominate their life, for the
• 8:07
  nominate, their earnings and Bitcoin, you know, will
• 8:10
  definitely want to take advantage of that during bull
• 8:12
  markets. However, when the price Ripping
• 8:14
  when everyone's going to bed at night and they're like, I wonder
• 8:17
  how high Bitcoin is going to get tomorrow, right?
• 8:19
  You know, like that's how we felt early 2021, where it's just
• 8:22
  like how high is it going to go when that's happening
• 8:25
  overclocking is fricking the best, right?
• 8:28
  It's like you because you're holding your holding your
• 8:30
  Bitcoin and it's gonna be worth more tomorrow.
• 8:33
  And so if this is about just get as much Bitcoin as you can, as
• 8:35
  fast as you can, but I think that kind of volatility Should
• 8:40
  taper, right? Maybe a wall, maybe it's going
• 8:41
  to be a lot longer than, you know, even the next 10 years
• 8:45
  where Bitcoin is Bitcoins. Can be incredibly volatile for a
• 8:47
  long time. But volatility ought to taper
• 8:50
  just from the sheer Mass right? Went and same thing.
• 8:52
  We have we have 250X a hash it's so much more difficult to have a
• 8:56
  ten percent jump in either direction, right?
• 8:58
  That's a lot of Asics coming off line or a lot of Basics coming
• 9:00
  online. That being said, we did just
• 9:02
  have one so you know it's not impossible but it's the law.
• 9:09
  I just have this, I have this tendency to think, like You'll
• 9:13
  see me saying it, where I say immersion is a flash in the pan
• 9:16
  and what I mean by that is it might seem like it's gonna be a
• 9:20
  long time, a long period or a long-lasting means of operating
• 9:25
  but I think in like, you know, in the year 2045, we'll look
• 9:28
  back and be like, holy crap. You guys remember, when everyone
• 9:30
  was immersing Asics back in, you know, those four or five years
• 9:33
  from 2019 to 2025 or something like, when everyone thought that
• 9:37
  was a good idea, I kind of feel that way.
• 9:40
  I may be wrong but that's, you know, I just I you gotta go
• 9:44
  toward efficiency. I don't necessarily disagree
• 9:47
  with the the efficiency claim long tail.
• 9:52
  It's interesting, though. Let me, let me paint you another
• 9:54
  picture and tell me what you think.
• 9:55
  So, outside of cooling, I think you could probably get better
• 10:03
  performance with the water block or using a block with dielectric
• 10:07
  fluid in the loop. But here's something that a
• 10:12
  waterblock cannot do that immersion, can it will as you as
• 10:21
  the chips, tuning not even for overclocking, but in general, it
• 10:25
  stops voltage leakage between most of the components on the
• 10:29
  PCB between the layers on the Chip And also on the PSU.
• 10:35
  So the noise that you'll get just kind of like dancing around
• 10:39
  The machine is greatly reduced. Other upsides that I see an
• 10:45
  immersion is if your fluid has a high enough flash point, you
• 10:51
  don't have to have fire suppression at least in the
• 10:54
  states and so that gets the capex for your building like a
• 11:03
  safety point of view. Yeah.
• 11:04
  Till I say, OSHA compliant, I think is like if look / like /?
• 11:09
  50 or 400 Degrees. You don't have to have fire
• 11:12
  suppression, okay. So there's a lot of other, like,
• 11:16
  interesting Nuance things that aren't necessarily like raw
• 11:19
  performance or efficiency gains on the device, but are from a
• 11:22
  business, level, more important I would say at scale.
• 11:26
  So that's why I say, I don't know which way wins out.
• 11:31
  Because the prototypes that we have for, like, we build our own
• 11:35
  water, blocks and ran dielectric fluid through it and you can
• 11:39
  cool them. Much more efficiently and you
• 11:42
  can pull the heat off of it much quicker, but you don't get, I
• 11:46
  mean it's just a pain in the ass, right?
• 11:48
  So maybe there's a manufacturer who does it that makes it better
• 11:51
  or cheaper whatever that's not in a box and b means doing all
• 11:55
  this stuff, but you won't get the benefits of noise reduction
• 12:04
  on the power voltage, seat, leakage, and some of the things
• 12:09
  that you Can get the power supply, runs way better in
• 12:13
  fluid. So there's other benefits that
• 12:16
  are ancillary to just, like pure chip performance.
• 12:19
  What do you think? Okay.
• 12:20
  Yeah. Well, that's what I'm curious.
• 12:22
  What have you seen in terms of the extreme, right?
• 12:23
  Like, what kind of, oh my, I'm sorry.
• 12:25
  I just out of the corner of my eye.
• 12:27
  Just read that Adam is an air-cooled Porsche Maxi.
• 12:29
  That's absolutely hilarious. Don't disagree.
• 12:35
  I'm not a Porsche Maxi, but I think, I think I think
• 12:40
  air-cooled because it's so challenging, right?
• 12:45
  That it's kind of fun. Like I was even I mentioned it
• 12:48
  in. There was a there's like a
• 12:50
  Twitter poll that was out there and you know, people were
• 12:52
  talking about like Mountain Dew cooled and stupid shit and you
• 12:57
  know something, I looked up not that long ago maybe like six or
• 12:59
  eight months ago I was going down this Rabbit Hole of using
• 13:02
  noble gases like what you had a closed air system like he's like
• 13:06
  Argon gas which is, you know, has like a 1.8.
• 13:09
  Heating value versus the normal air that you'll typically find,
• 13:13
  like, you know, could you then have an air-cooled system that
• 13:16
  you can overclock crazily, that could be sick, right?
• 13:20
  That like, yeah, but at what cost?
• 13:22
  Right, I got one cost at what, and what bullshit is, it
• 13:26
  pragmatic? Probably not, but I'm curious
• 13:28
  what kind of extremes have you seen?
• 13:29
  Because, you know, you ran that, you ran that kind of contest of,
• 13:32
  you know, people trying to overclock.
• 13:34
  And, and so it's balance of like nominal hash rate and
• 13:37
  efficiency, I'm sure that you've looked at Trying to maximize
• 13:41
  efficiency, right? So, like, hello, how low can
• 13:43
  these 19's and these em 30s and 50s?
• 13:45
  Go are we, is anybody going to get sub 20?
• 13:49
  So it's interesting depending on how you overclock it, right?
• 13:53
  So the on that little competition, what I found is
• 13:56
  that anything in immersion, you'll be able to clock higher
• 14:00
  than anything, on a water block. Because as the frequency of the
• 14:04
  chip goes up, you get way More Voltage leakage on the chip, but
• 14:10
  if you put it in immersion the fluid acts as an insulator on
• 14:14
  the Chip And it it tamps that down.
• 14:16
  So you got a little bit more Headroom in immersion usual.
• 14:19
  The waterblock outside of that depending on how you overclock
• 14:24
  so like I found that my man in the middle board.
• 14:28
  Versus like people you running brains or whatever was orders of
• 14:32
  magnitude more efficient just because it's a better way to
• 14:35
  overclock. So I was getting on it s an 18
• 14:40
  Pro 172 Tara hash at 31 W / T. I think coin heated pulled 176
• 14:51
  at 60 watts or something. So how you overclock is also
• 14:56
  super important and how How you underclock is also super
• 14:59
  important. So I don't know that you can
• 15:01
  really compare Them Apples to Apples because the methodology
• 15:04
  is almost as important as the methodology of overclocking is
• 15:08
  almost, as important as the methodology of cooling.
• 15:12
  That's the something that was interesting to me, is that the
• 15:15
  way I did it versus the way other people did.
• 15:17
  It was very, very different and the results were very, very
• 15:21
  different. So some people were able to get
• 15:23
  more performance, but they're hit to efficiency was way.
• 15:27
  Higher. So, so how did you, how did you,
• 15:31
  how did you conclude, how did you determine that?
• 15:33
  The voltage leakage is, you know, part of that, part of that
• 15:37
  problem. And how did you how do you
• 15:38
  measure that? Yeah, so I learned that early
• 15:41
  days, don't crucify me. I helped make one of the first
• 15:44
  Litecoin Asics back in the day, learned a lot there on the
• 15:49
  hardware standpoint. So as the frequency climbs, oh
• 15:55
  here we go. Yeah, we can we can discuss
• 15:57
  brain. As versus Finisher and how
• 16:00
  they're both, not as good as me. We can totally talk about that.
• 16:04
  The, so, as the frequency climbs past, what it's been designed
• 16:08
  for, you will get really degradation on the Silicon, like
• 16:14
  the gates will actually start to change shape and degrade over
• 16:18
  time and that causes the way, the electrons move to be less
• 16:24
  optimal is an easy way to say it.
• 16:26
  But if you so, Said, there's a silicon manufacturing process
• 16:29
  that Qualcomm pioneered called FDA.
• 16:32
  So I fully depleted silicon on insulator, which is where they
• 16:36
  would, instead of stacking layers of silicon and copper.
• 16:39
  They would stack silicon copper and then do a layer of silicon
• 16:42
  dioxide and then silicon copper, and silicon dioxide to stop that
• 16:47
  voltage leaking. As far as like how you quantify
• 16:51
  it, I that's well beyond my expertise.
• 16:53
  I would not a good basic designer at all, so I don't know
• 16:57
  if there's a way to measure it. But well, that's, I mean, part
• 17:00
  of measuring that you just said is, you know, actually
• 17:03
  physically looking at, you know, the, the silicon and seeing that
• 17:06
  it's warped or seeing that, you know, it's no longer as it was
• 17:10
  when it was manufactured. So again.
• 17:12
  Yeah, but electrons gate is kind of like a pencil LED so, like,
• 17:15
  as you write with it, the the lead gets duller and duller.
• 17:19
  Dollar, right? It's kind of similar.
• 17:20
  If you really push the chips hard, you'll see that the gate
• 17:24
  start to kind of be Road like that, which is really
• 17:27
  interesting, right? It's like we're your kind of
• 17:30
  talking about the absolute Bare Bones of the thermodynamic laws
• 17:34
  here. How electrons warp silicon just
• 17:38
  by through use? Okay, well, Have you done any
• 17:42
  done? Some numbers with with water
• 17:45
  cooled? Because you know what?
• 17:47
  From what I've seen on water cooled and one of the cool
• 17:50
  things is obviously the energy density, which I think you don't
• 17:53
  get too much of an energy density benefit with immersion
• 17:55
  and correct me if I'm wrong here.
• 17:56
  I mean you can over overclock right?
• 17:58
  Which gives you some but in terms of like the physical space
• 18:01
  you need for a mega watt system, I feel like water-cooled has
• 18:05
  some advantages, right? Where, you know that water block
• 18:09
  system can be a little bit more consolidated.
• 18:12
  Again, I'm not as familiar with larger scale version.
• 18:14
  I mean, I'm I'm the guy that you know, and trust me immersion.
• 18:17
  Let me say this, it's the coolest thing in the world,
• 18:19
  right? Like it's the absolute.
• 18:21
  It's so aesthetically pleasing to see an Asic immersed in some
• 18:25
  type of a fluid. Like any electronic now?
• 18:27
  That's sick. No talking on the phone under
• 18:30
  water. Yeah, it's like smoking a
• 18:33
  cigarette in outer space. No, it's just, there's something
• 18:36
  really sexy about it, absolutely.
• 18:38
  So I was looking at doing this and I'll probably even have an
• 18:41
  immersion system at some point. If do it water-cooled isn't, you
• 18:45
  know, that would be more just for fun than it looks sick.
• 18:48
  Well, and it's, it's fun to Tinker, right?
• 18:50
  But the heat reuse seems to be similar benefits in the to, you
• 18:55
  know, like there. Yeah, I don't know if there's
• 18:58
  any better heat or use from immersion versus water cooled.
• 19:00
  It seemed to be wonderful, might be more pragmatic of a way to
• 19:02
  reuse here, but the best argument that I have, the one
• 19:05
  that I think is, this is why I really think it'll Trend this
• 19:09
  way is I was, I was enlightened to this idea that if Amazon
• 19:15
  Amazon already has tons of water cooled servers, right?
• 19:17
  They have. I mean, a million-dollar data
• 19:18
  centers that are set up for water-cooled situation and you
• 19:21
  could if you design a water-cooled rack or anytime
• 19:24
  Amazon has server space, they could just roll in a Bitcoin
• 19:27
  rack and then, whenever they need to expand their, you know,
• 19:30
  cloud service, they just rolled a track out and, you know, put
• 19:32
  in their own servers that tells me like now, we're talking about
• 19:37
  the economics of cloud servers, right up to the industrial.
• 19:39
  Economics of cloud servers, and Bitcoin mining not just
• 19:43
  benefiting like stranded, G but stranded server space, right?
• 19:47
  And that's where water-cooled. I was like, shit.
• 19:49
  Those guys when they wake up to that opportunity, me Bitcoins
• 19:51
  going to have to be $750 thousand a million dollars a
• 19:54
  coin but when it is they'll wake up and they'll start they'll
• 19:57
  start building will start throwing some real money at it.
• 19:59
  Yeah. That's an interesting teak.
• 20:01
  I think that's that's I'd buy that for sure.
• 20:05
  I think if you want to Rack into like existing infrastructure to
• 20:09
  make it like a hot swappable system, I think it would have to
• 20:12
  be that way. The problem with water in
• 20:14
  general is just this like, if the ship breaks your kind of
• 20:18
  fuck. So on are water, cooled blocks,
• 20:22
  we're actually running the dielectric, fluid through them's
• 20:25
  because I mean, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.
• 20:27
  I'm like this meal works with this and I put this hose on this
• 20:30
  thing and and, you know, Hoses pop off all the time and I'm not
• 20:35
  trying to spray water all over my component.
• 20:37
  So I think if somebody came to Market with something that's
• 20:40
  like, you know, 42 you Rach. That's like water-cooled
• 20:43
  situation. I think mikrobitti is doing
• 20:45
  this. No, right.
• 20:46
  They've got a, a water-cooled rackmount chassis system that
• 20:50
  you can do that. With look nobody is cracked a
• 20:56
  good use for the heat. The heat of Bitcoin mining is
• 20:59
  not particularly useful. It's not hot enough to boil
• 21:02
  stuff. It's not cool.
• 21:03
  And it's in, it's just hot enough to be a nuisance.
• 21:06
  So I've heard people like, I think, Alex good guy biker, like
• 21:11
  grows like bean sprouts or something and sells them, but
• 21:16
  that's not like, wildly ludicrous.
• 21:18
  I had a had a guy yesterday. They came on the show's company
• 21:21
  called g0 B mine and apparently they set up little operations
• 21:26
  inside of G greenhouses and they use the excess heat to grow food
• 21:32
  instead of You're going to spend that money on heaters anyways so
• 21:36
  they just yeah do with Bitcoin miners.
• 21:38
  So I thought that was really interesting.
• 21:40
  Well what's interesting there is I think that's where air-cooled
• 21:42
  kind of actually shines. Like we're literally have a call
• 21:46
  today with a greenhouse in Florida.
• 21:48
  They're looking at deploying our eight-foot black boxes because
• 21:51
  they're already spending so much money on heaters, they get great
• 21:54
  power rate. They're subsidized because
• 21:56
  they're a massive food, producer their electricity subsidized.
• 21:59
  And so they're looking at, you know, effectively just
• 22:02
  optimizing their Ian and like I think it's going to be just
• 22:06
  fine, right? Like I think they're gonna have
• 22:07
  an issue with heat given part of its there in Florida and so the
• 22:10
  cold isn't all that bad. But you know I think with with
• 22:15
  heat reuse there's something to be said on the air-cooled side
• 22:18
  of, you know, any large Warehouse, any Lumber storage
• 22:22
  boat storage like they already have massive HVAC heaters.
• 22:27
  I don't know why you couldn't have, you know, a bunch of a six
• 22:29
  with a, you know. And here's the thing, like you
• 22:31
  can overclock them, you can tune them.
• 22:33
  Where it's ideally for just them to be producing heat in a
• 22:36
  byproduct is, you know, the hash rate, you know.
• 22:40
  I think that actually are called might shine when it comes to
• 22:42
  heat reuse, even though it's not, you know, it's not
• 22:44
  pragmatic for for like a hot water home system that that's,
• 22:48
  that's what's so crazy on. On the immersion side of things,
• 22:51
  in my opinion is, you know, it's just almost hot enough to be
• 22:55
  useful, but I thought I heard, I thought I heard about people
• 22:58
  using it to to preheat ocean water to pour salt.
• 23:03
  Reduction. I think, mags crypto mags is
• 23:05
  talked about that, but ultimately, I, I don't think
• 23:11
  it's right. It's Adam.
• 23:13
  Have any concerns? The ethical issues of are cool
• 23:15
  machines. Killing mice, those Kaboom Rex.
• 23:18
  They post Kaboom and they like took a part of S9.
• 23:21
  Has a like, a rat or Mouse, squished into the heatsink.
• 23:24
  There's there's no way that Mouse.
• 23:27
  There's no way that Aesop was running when that mouse got in
• 23:29
  there, there's just no way that there's just me sitting in a
• 23:32
  storage unit. Much like no.
• 23:34
  My they would sit by it but they wouldn't.
• 23:37
  They wouldn't? There it is.
• 23:38
  There it is. Yeah, God that's that was I just
• 23:42
  want to point out that that Mouse died for Freedom.
• 23:45
  That's right. Gang dude.
• 23:46
  Getting gay. Sacrifices sacrifices, will be
• 23:50
  made. Nope, I mean, I miss the.
• 23:53
  Other thing is I'm kind of, you know, I'm kind of talking out of
• 23:56
  the side of my mouth here because I haven't eaten.
• 23:58
  Personally, I've seen personally seen immersion systems but I
• 24:02
  haven't personally toward Me like I haven't seen riots, you
• 24:04
  know? Insane massive emergent
• 24:06
  disability. But when I have the takes his
• 24:08
  Feller, we going to show you one.
• 24:10
  Yeah, I would I would love to come anytime you got come.
• 24:14
  Come. But I asked, I asked the CEO of
• 24:18
  Riley or Chad Riot, if during a panel down in, we're down in
• 24:24
  College Station at Texas A&M. And I asked him if he was
• 24:27
  looking at water, cooled at all and he said, he liked acted,
• 24:29
  like he'd never heard of it. I don't know if that was like an
• 24:32
  intentional act, like you've never heard of it or if it was,
• 24:35
  he was like, no, we're going where he's like, we're standing
• 24:37
  on the gas pedal when it comes to him version like we're purely
• 24:40
  immersion, kind of a mining company, she's talking about the
• 24:42
  density, the the density of like commercial by the way you should
• 24:47
  get a home immersion mind there's a company called fog
• 24:50
  hashing. That makes one.
• 24:51
  I'm really want to get one. It's like literally one
• 24:54
  container for one s19. It looks sick.
• 24:56
  I haven't got one yet. I really want to get one because
• 24:58
  it looks dope but the Density on on, at least our stuff at
• 25:04
  rhodium is really big and I don't know how it could be more
• 25:10
  dense. So, we're stacking the machines
• 25:13
  everybody. This is running immersion at
• 25:15
  scale is stacking machines right next to each other.
• 25:17
  So they're literally touching, I guess, depending on maybe you
• 25:22
  could rack water cooling higher. That might be because you don't
• 25:26
  have to worry about like the the flow dynamics that we're like
• 25:30
  The Vow. You move of fluid right?
• 25:33
  Yeah maybe it probably uses less fluid.
• 25:35
  That's a yeah. Error water blocks would use
• 25:38
  less fluid? That's for sure.
• 25:40
  Right? What I think?
• 25:41
  Why wouldn't, why wouldn't water-cooled blocks use a
• 25:43
  dielectric fluid? Anyway, is there some Advantage?
• 25:45
  But usually, it's not water. It's like, Ugh.
• 25:47
  Like, all right. It's like a, it's like, you
• 25:49
  know? Yeah, it's actually the same
• 25:50
  system as hydrocarbon. Yeah.
• 25:52
  So it's a polyolefin base mostly, right?
• 25:55
  Unless you're using somebody elses fluid has a different
• 25:57
  process, but almost everybody is using a PA.
• 26:00
  Oh, Base and they've have like some additives in there, but
• 26:03
  it's basically like a synthesized hydrocarbon that
• 26:06
  right? But I mean I mean for the
• 26:07
  water-cooled like like you did because you didn't want to leak
• 26:09
  to screw up all your hardware. And wonder, I wonder what the
• 26:12
  advantages to not using dielectric fluid in hospital.
• 26:16
  Like I mean, water, salt water is just more cheap I would say
• 26:24
  and at scale it matters. Yeah so I mean when you're you
• 26:28
  know the question is are you going to purchase to me?
• 26:31
  And leaders of you know, whatever bit cool or whatever,
• 26:34
  you know is out there. I mean that can that can really
• 26:37
  add up or are you gonna just turn on the tap?
• 26:41
  Yeah. Okay.
• 26:42
  Well I'm sure you got a condition, the water for scale
• 26:46
  and that kind of stuff, but the cost of that fluid is not zero.
• 26:51
  That's for sure. No, they have a patent on that
• 26:53
  fluid. I think, right?
• 26:54
  I mean, isn't that? Yeah, there's all kinds of
• 26:56
  variants of it of different competitors and vendors, but at
• 26:59
  the end of the day, it's Over half poly Alpha olefins
• 27:02
  synthesized hydrocarbon. So okay, so do you have to do
• 27:05
  you filter it over time? I mean, this is, yeah.
• 27:07
  So everybody's got some kind of filtration system because you
• 27:10
  know, dust gets in there and that kind of stuff.
• 27:14
  That's that's another advantage of of immersion, the dust.
• 27:17
  Just kind of like Sinks to the bottom, right?
• 27:21
  It's effectively a closed loop. It's not really, but dust can
• 27:26
  still get on PCB and short components, I guess, for a
• 27:28
  waterblock situation, maybe I you probably got to do a lot of
• 27:33
  water conditioning to I would imagine just because water is
• 27:36
  gross in general. Yeah, a lot of Isotopes.
• 27:40
  Yeah. So unless you're going to use
• 27:42
  like, you know, deionized which is probably cheaper than
• 27:45
  dielectric fluid, I would imagine but Yeah, that's that's
• 27:50
  an interesting take. You could probably run it.
• 27:51
  More dense. I would say in water for sure,
• 27:55
  that's kind of what I was thinking.
• 27:56
  I like it. When you get up to you could
• 27:58
  stack it higher. Yeah, 10 50 megawatts or
• 28:01
  something it could it could actually make a pretty big
• 28:03
  difference on the the footprint or the actual cubic feet that
• 28:07
  are required. Okay, well I've got I don't know
• 28:08
  how how the amp boxer. What do they call it to an space
• 28:12
  there? Water-cooled stuff.
• 28:13
  How many megawatts is their container?
• 28:16
  I thought it was a well, I thought if it's a there for you,
• 28:19
  Container. I thought they were almost a two
• 28:21
  megawatts, which is about which is air cooled, right?
• 28:23
  Yeah, that's that's because in the Box they have like the pumps
• 28:27
  in a bunch of other things inside the box for, maybe it's
• 28:29
  not optimized for that. I'm not sure.
• 28:31
  Yeah, I mean, I'm not I'm pretty well versed on what's miners
• 28:35
  water cooled system at Myers water cooled system.
• 28:38
  Horrifies me like there's just something about like the Asic
• 28:42
  form factor with the tubes coming out the back that I justi
• 28:45
  just it's horrifying to me. I just don't think it's, I don't
• 28:48
  know real. Hey Trix vibes.
• 28:50
  Yeah, interest. I was Matrix Vibes there but,
• 28:54
  you know, I think, I think mikrobitti is water cooled.
• 28:56
  System is sweet, right. I think they really, they really
• 29:00
  did it, right? I get my, I'm biased to them on
• 29:02
  the air cooled to, right? I think that there are cooled is
• 29:06
  it's just Superior. I mean, they they protect the
• 29:08
  chips so well, that we've seen in the oilfield Upstream data,
• 29:12
  right? We've seen our customers.
• 29:14
  We had a customer who had a bunch of snow blow into their
• 29:16
  their container because they had the filters on like Perverted
• 29:20
  and it had a bunch of snow that you know blue end and all their
• 29:24
  aunt minor we're toast. And all their watch fires were
• 29:26
  fine even though they had light snow on them.
• 29:29
  Which you know, it's saying something I think so it's a
• 29:31
  little bit more protected. Let me, let me ask you this,
• 29:35
  where do you see? Like right now, you know, we've
• 29:38
  got we've got a pretty bloody market, right?
• 29:44
  We got a lot of guys we got oh yeah, you know the really big
• 29:46
  dogs. Declaring bankruptcy having 500
• 29:48
  million dollars in. Bilities.
• 29:51
  What do you think about kind of the larger scale versus the more
• 29:55
  gorilla? You know maybe one to ten
• 29:58
  megawatt or ten megawatt and Below operations?
• 30:00
  Because I tend to think that their little bit more Nimble and
• 30:02
  they have a lot less financing that can go awry.
• 30:06
  They're a lot less subject to the feds interest rates and
• 30:08
  things like that. And so I'm just curious, I'm
• 30:10
  curious your take on that because because I think that
• 30:13
  plays a role, right? Because it's a matter of who you
• 30:14
  get in bed with and at what scale you go kind of you know
• 30:17
  you kind of backed yourself into a corner.
• 30:19
  Or if you're at that scale. Yeah.
• 30:21
  The the so I'll talk about the bigger people who are public
• 30:25
  first, they all have different business models.
• 30:28
  So the I think they're a slave to the Bitcoin price because
• 30:31
  they all kind of trade together, right?
• 30:33
  So, you know, you've got really great, operators some self.
• 30:37
  Mine, some only host in some only run machines at hosting
• 30:42
  facilities and some do a combination.
• 30:44
  So, the people who I guess host a little bit are could be
• 30:48
  insulated more than people who don't, but they're not getting
• 30:52
  the benefit of that on the street, right.
• 30:54
  Everybody just kind of valued the same.
• 30:56
  So I think that's a problem with the street not being educated on
• 31:00
  the businesses. But I just got back from Kenya,
• 31:05
  and it's really interesting, the smaller more.
• 31:08
  Nimble, loads are? I mean, they're not burdened by
• 31:13
  having to deal with other people, you know?
• 31:16
  Right? If your power providers like,
• 31:19
  hey, I I have a default somewhere else in my business
• 31:23
  and I need to change X y&z. The people who are small,
• 31:26
  probably in some part or making their own power anyway.
• 31:29
  They don't, they don't care, it's whatever right.
• 31:32
  It's also interesting. In Kenya, the world melts down,
• 31:34
  Kenya is not going to Blink. An eye Canada is so insulated
• 31:38
  from all the Western bullshit in the world.
• 31:40
  It's incredible. So I think geographically is an
• 31:44
  important piece of it and look at the world blows up.
• 31:47
  You should probably move to Africa.
• 31:49
  Those people have been self-sustained for.
• 31:51
  Entries and they are not going to even blink an eye that Russia
• 31:56
  bombed America or whatever, so because that's the mentality of
• 32:00
  those people and they're so robust at handling just like
• 32:05
  everyday life. They seem to make business
• 32:09
  models that are more aligned than here.
• 32:13
  And yeah, so it's all revenue. Share like uni when type
• 32:17
  situations not I haven't asked that pay me for it, so So I
• 32:21
  think because those seems to be non-western business approaches,
• 32:26
  they are a little bit more removed from like difficulty
• 32:28
  spikes and stuff. They're going to make less
• 32:30
  short-term but long-term I think they Outlast.
• 32:34
  So I think you're right, right? And yeah that's interesting.
• 32:36
  I I've been to Kenya a couple times.
• 32:38
  I've been to Tanzania and I had Kilimanjaro and I'm with you on
• 32:42
  that, it's a completely isolated from the rest of the world.
• 32:45
  That's, that's an interesting point.
• 32:46
  I mean, I think, I mean, I think the same things going on all
• 32:50
  over the world, right? Anywhere where it's you know,
• 32:52
  you're talking about second or third world, kind of conditions.
• 32:55
  Bitcoin is Bitcoin is perfect for those who are Scrappy,
• 32:59
  right? Because those were Scrappy can't
• 33:01
  win in the Fiat system right there, they're destined to fail.
• 33:05
  You know, I say this all, I mean all the people in my life when I
• 33:09
  talk to them you know we talked about jobs and we talk about
• 33:11
  income things like that people I think actually believe that
• 33:14
  they'll get rich by just saving and dollars.
• 33:18
  They just look at themselves as like, I just put dollars.
• 33:21
  Into a checking account. And like, look at me.
• 33:24
  I'm a responsible adult. Yeah.
• 33:26
  Exactly. Right Miss.
• 33:27
  And it's tragic really right? But the people that that really
• 33:31
  have seen currencies be leveraged as something to just
• 33:34
  get your control people or to, you know, take people's power
• 33:37
  away. They're really enlightened
• 33:39
  quickly to been going to value proposition and to start saving
• 33:43
  in this thing that the whole world.
• 33:44
  You know it's using and nobody can nobody can get a leg up.
• 33:49
  Okay, so Africa though, before before you move off that topic,
• 33:52
  like how excited are high polish?
• 33:55
  Are you on on the African operations?
• 33:57
  And and what, what made you want to go up?
• 34:00
  You go down there. Like what was the actual calling
• 34:03
  did they need your expertise on set up or what?
• 34:06
  No, I had a friend of a friend who called me and was like hey
• 34:09
  there's just like African thing. Can you let go check it out?
• 34:11
  I'm thinking about investing and I was like, okay.
• 34:14
  And we were looking at some stuff at rhodium to, like,
• 34:17
  diversify things shows like a due diligence thing.
• 34:20
  I've never been to Africa before, ever, not anywhere,
• 34:22
  South Africa, Morocco, nowhere. And I didn't know that almost
• 34:28
  every country in Africa, has no Grid.
• 34:30
  It's all many grid powered, and I've heard people in the states
• 34:33
  talking about mini grids, but it just didn't click for me.
• 34:37
  And so I'm not going to speak about Africa at large because
• 34:39
  I've literally only been to Kenya for like a week, so I
• 34:42
  don't know anything about that place but what I know is,
• 34:47
  they're Scrappy people. So the guy, the first generator
• 34:50
  I talk to is the guy when he was 14, stripped a bicycle down,
• 34:54
  took an alternator out of a car strap, some paddles to a bike
• 34:58
  shoved alternator onto the bike and throw it in a river because
• 35:00
  he needed power. So, that he could do his
• 35:02
  studying a night and I was like this dude is a fucking big
• 35:05
  corner and has no idea. He's sitting there staring at a
• 35:08
  river, like, how do I take that? I can bet and move this make
• 35:12
  power. So now he controls like two
• 35:14
  megawatts, which is a lot there across 10 different mini grids
• 35:20
  and he's electrifying communities.
• 35:22
  And but the problem is people in Africa, use power from like 6:00
• 35:25
  to 10:00 p.m. only Power. Their lights, charge their
• 35:27
  phones and or whatever. Yeah.
• 35:30
  Most people don't even use power to cook food.
• 35:32
  They're using like paraffin or kerosene.
• 35:35
  It's really dangerous stuff. So, but the reason they do that
• 35:39
  is because the power so expensive, because the generator
• 35:42
  doesn't have economies of scale because they're only selling it
• 35:44
  for four hours a day, because they're not interconnected to
• 35:46
  the grid. So there's no real time Market,
• 35:49
  they can sell into like every other Western eyes place.
• 35:51
  So, because of that, there's just like dead space.
• 35:55
  So, like, 20 hours that every generator, that I talked to has,
• 35:59
  and within five minutes of talking to him, and I talked to
• 36:02
  small people, I talked to big people multinational, huge
• 36:06
  places that Like 20 billion under management and they're all
• 36:09
  like, yeah, let's do it. When can we start?
• 36:10
  Like, when can we start? And the challenges were, we have
• 36:15
  no real time Market to sell to. So we want to do, like, if I, if
• 36:19
  I pay them half a cent per kilowatt, I take it.
• 36:23
  There are all about it. Yeah.
• 36:26
  And in reality, it's more of a revenue share.
• 36:27
  That makes more sense. And so then ways, they in turn
• 36:30
  get economies of scale so then they can drop the power for the
• 36:33
  community and then the community can use more power and the basic
• 36:37
  principle of like life that I'm a subscriber to is cheap access
• 36:40
  to power. And so it's the first time ever
• 36:43
  in my Bitcoin career. That all the shit that we talked
• 36:46
  about, o Bitcoins, the buyer of Last Resort, blah, blah, this
• 36:48
  time. Whatever is the first place I've
• 36:50
  ever seen. That, number one, that's the
• 36:52
  case. Number two, you can do that, and
• 36:55
  the minor makes money. The generator makes money and
• 36:58
  the community saves money to improve their quality of life.
• 37:01
  I was just like, this is a big fucking deal.
• 37:05
  And everybody, I talk to Ami Really understood it immediately
• 37:08
  grabbed gravity towards it. So I think the opportunity for
• 37:11
  Africa over the next decade is going to be fucking huge.
• 37:14
  Yeah, that's really analogous to the oil field, right?
• 37:16
  Same kind of thing. Where, you know, and to your
• 37:18
  point right where the rev-share makes a lot more sense.
• 37:21
  I tell this to, I mean, I probably said this a hundred
• 37:23
  times oil and gas producers where a lot of them are
• 37:25
  immediately looking at, you know, just hey, do you know, a
• 37:28
  Bitcoin miner that can come in and just pay me for my gas?
• 37:31
  Yes, and yet because they don't have a pipeline, I guess?
• 37:33
  Yeah, they got or they don't yet have a pipeline or Just got
• 37:37
  they've got a lot of oil that they're producing and so
• 37:39
  therefore there's their their Associated gas is actually like
• 37:43
  serious volume. And I'm always, I'm always
• 37:46
  trying to convince them, I'm like listen, you should share
• 37:48
  some risk because what's going to happen is you're going to
• 37:51
  come in, you're going to say, okay, you pay me this price for
• 37:52
  the gas. The problem is that there's now
• 37:55
  a break-even for that minor. So there's a point where if,
• 37:58
  like today, where you know, we're at seven Cent hash price
• 38:01
  for something that might or might come back and say, hey, I
• 38:03
  can't buy your ass anymore, right?
• 38:05
  And you're going to You're going to have like these issues, not
• 38:08
  to mention, if they're, if they're responsible for all the
• 38:10
  infrastructure, if there's an infrastructure issue, nobody's
• 38:13
  going to want to pay for it, right?
• 38:14
  And so when you have this shared risk, what you can do is and
• 38:18
  this is I'm curious your take on this.
• 38:20
  This was something I recommend it to it to produce a recently
• 38:23
  was, you know, stagger it based on house price where I was like
• 38:26
  Hey when house prices below 15 cents you're going to buy gas at
• 38:30
  this price and when it's above 15 cents you're going to buy gas
• 38:33
  at this price you're going to be an increase, right?
• 38:36
  So that way the producers. Ooh, sir can feel some of that
• 38:38
  wind when Bitcoin runs up to 65,000 but, you know, then the
• 38:42
  minor knows that he's protected on his downside that if you know
• 38:45
  conditions get shitty, my cost goes down and that's where
• 38:48
  you'll find, you know, 20 or Partnerships that end up
• 38:51
  becoming something really fruitful rather than hey we made
• 38:53
  money for a year and then the deal fell apart and we're now
• 38:56
  we're going to sit in court rooms for the next three years
• 38:59
  you know yelling at each other about who owes who money are
• 39:01
  people really open to that in Africa?
• 39:03
  Everybody's open to it because there is no alternative.
• 39:06
  It's not like, oh, I could build a pipeline or I could flare it
• 39:09
  like shit just going in the ground, but that's not.
• 39:11
  Well, see here goes well, no, I mean It depends on what scale,
• 39:15
  right. We're talking about like a
• 39:16
  stranded gas field. It's too much, right?
• 39:19
  That's thing about natural gas is so energy danced that.
• 39:22
  If you find an actual, you have gas Wells, a pipeline is really
• 39:26
  awesome because it can take, you know, one of variable amount of
• 39:29
  gas. But with mining Bitcoin for
• 39:31
  every unit of gas, you need to generate a unit of electricity,
• 39:33
  right? So you need jet.
• 39:34
  Power generation is reaching into gas.
• 39:36
  I mean there's well as out there that produced, you know, 4
• 39:39
  million cubic feet, 4,000 M CF a day that right there.
• 39:44
  Aw. It's a single well, and they've
• 39:45
  got a pad of like 75, right. It's like, well, the capital
• 39:50
  expenditure made its kind of a benefit.
• 39:52
  It's a double-edged sword. Where if you if you are a
• 39:54
  billionaire and you needed a place to put some serious
• 39:57
  Capital mining Bitcoin in the oil field, it's so
• 40:00
  capital-intensive, you could, you could do it, you can
• 40:03
  actually invest a billion dollars into the space.
• 40:08
  When it comes to a pipeline, that's it's really what it's
• 40:10
  about its familiarity, they know that, but build a getting a
• 40:13
  pipeline built the United States every you know, it's harder
• 40:16
  every day, right? I mean environmental aspect to
• 40:18
  it. The amount of land ownership to
• 40:20
  deal with the blah, blah blah, right?
• 40:21
  And you actually, I mean pipe, the Midstream guys are there,
• 40:25
  Cutthroats? Hell, right.
• 40:26
  And so Bitcoin. What I love about Bitcoin is it
• 40:28
  comes in and it humbles the Midstream.
• 40:29
  It humbles the pipeline because they usually have the guy that
• 40:32
  has, you know, millions of cubic feet of gas.
• 40:34
  They got them by the balls because it's like, hey, you
• 40:36
  know, you can either have a scale of 5.
• 40:38
  Are you can, you know, kind of just sit there with your dadís
• 40:40
  and never make any money Bitcoin?
• 40:42
  Now gives that at least some optionality.
• 40:44
  Hmm. And it's going to make people
• 40:45
  play fair rides. Can make a play more fair, but I
• 40:48
  still think both makes sense, right?
• 40:49
  You're going to build a pipeline.
• 40:50
  You probably should have some, you should have a couple
• 40:52
  megawatts of the ability to dump gas over here because again
• 40:58
  optionality, right. Otherwise again that pipelines
• 41:00
  kind of got you by the balls and they never gone to a site and
• 41:04
  they were like nah we're not interested if so why?
• 41:07
  Oh well. The plenty of Plenty Of The
• 41:09
  Playboy and gas producers. I mean this is this I'm not sure
• 41:12
  it's Unique to the industry but oil and gas producers are
• 41:15
  probably the slowest. You know, business decision
• 41:18
  makers to move. They never want to be the first
• 41:20
  guy through the wall, right? They never want to be the first
• 41:22
  one to try something. They always wait and I worked.
• 41:25
  I worked on guys before I got into Bitcoin and I worked in the
• 41:28
  software game and one of the biggest wins we got as a company
• 41:31
  is I got and shoots one of the biggest, you know, where the gas
• 41:35
  producers here. I got them as a client, right?
• 41:38
  So literally it became so easy to sell the software after I got
• 41:41
  them because I would just go to people say oh yeah and shoots
• 41:43
  uses us and they'd be like oh well then will you know you got
• 41:45
  to be good. It's kind of like Farming
• 41:47
  Farming Community like well I jimbob down the road.
• 41:49
  He get he behaves in that. I'll take one too.
• 41:52
  Yeah, exactly. That's exactly right right.
• 41:54
  It's like they don't they don't want to be the first one day
• 41:55
  waiting to because because what happens in oil and gas is it if
• 41:59
  you end up on like you know, the bad end of something, right
• 42:01
  which I'm sure there's some oil and there's some guys who are
• 42:03
  mining Bitcoin or invested in mining Bitcoin, you know near
• 42:05
  the second quarter of 2012. Twenty one who felt some pain,
• 42:09
  pretty quick, maybe they over capitalized in their returns
• 42:12
  were much worse than they thought.
• 42:16
  But it's happened in oil and gas time and time.
• 42:18
  Again, where everybody on the tail end of like the fracking
• 42:20
  boom in the early 2000s, the guys on the tail end got
• 42:23
  absolutely wrecked, right? They way overpaid for Wells.
• 42:26
  And ultimately you know, there was bankruptcies just like
• 42:29
  across the industry. This everyone's trying to avoid
• 42:33
  that, right? They know they have something
• 42:34
  valuable. They know they have a business
• 42:36
  model that works if they stay smart.
• 42:38
  Avoid stupid decisions will risk.
• 42:40
  So that's that's more the hurdle is.
• 42:42
  I think they're not very aggressive, right?
• 42:44
  Um, and pipelines are some, you know, they've dealt with
• 42:47
  pipelines. They do pipelines every day,
• 42:49
  they build them. Like, that's something familiar
• 42:51
  to them. If it's either a million dollars
• 42:52
  into this Bitcoin stuff or a million dollars into a pipeline
• 42:55
  like they're going to go to a pipeline, right?
• 42:57
  The difference is that with Bitcoin?
• 42:58
  Usually they were making more money today.
• 43:00
  It's pretty even actually it's about.
• 43:02
  It's funny how the market finds equilibrium like that, where
• 43:05
  they're getting six, seven dollars per mcf.
• 43:08
  When pipeline six, seven, eight dollars, maybe per mcf with New
• 43:11
  Gen Asics, it's, you know, kind of a coin flip.
• 43:13
  And so watching a build out, I mean, it's got to be analogous
• 43:18
  because I'm at can't, I can't imagine producing power and only
• 43:21
  having customers 1/6 of the day, right?
• 43:25
  How desperate I would be for somebody to come in and offer me
• 43:27
  a penny during those other? You know, 20 hours.
• 43:31
  And so I'm bullish on Africa. Just from what you sample shows
• 43:35
  on Kenya on Eastern Africa, That Nigeria is the same way.
• 43:39
  Nigeria runs on diesel because they have no grid.
• 43:42
  Apparently I've never been there but I've spoken with with folks
• 43:45
  who have spent a lot of time there and apparently they have
• 43:47
  no grid but because the country is so rich in oil oil and gas,
• 43:51
  every place just has like a diesel generator behind it and
• 43:54
  diesels just so cheap. They just they're just like
• 43:56
  pouring in diesel all day to make electricity, you know?
• 44:00
  It's I mean talk about an efficient, right?
• 44:03
  Like we could, we could Bitcoin could really help them.
• 44:08
  Establish the micro grids or some type of, you know, a system
• 44:11
  that probably 5 10 times more efficient?
• 44:13
  So, mmm Nico, what do you Mica? What are you thinking here?
• 44:16
  I mean, it's got to be blowing your mind as much as well.
• 44:17
  Nico fell asleep, dude. How is he asleep?
• 44:20
  He's snoozing, he's snoozing. He's weak in the knees.
• 44:24
  All right. Oh honey.
• 44:27
  Weak, weak in the knees? I love that we can the knees
• 44:31
  now, though, you guys are making my fucking job a hundred times
• 44:35
  easier. I usually have to handhold
• 44:37
  people. Through the whole show and you
• 44:39
  guys are just ripping it and it makes me really fucking happy.
• 44:43
  I just want to say this about Denver though, Denver, I met
• 44:46
  you. When you first started I met you
• 44:47
  when you first got into the space and holy shit, my so proud
• 44:51
  of you. My dude, you've conquered come
• 44:53
  and incredible long way. And yeah, I know you're fucking
• 44:57
  shit. You know, you're talking about
• 44:59
  and that's super fucking impressive.
• 45:01
  I just got to say that. Well, I appreciate that.
• 45:03
  That's just, that's a result of obsession, right?
• 45:05
  I mean, that's just all that. He's an addict.
• 45:08
  Is this an addict? That's all this is.
• 45:10
  It's interesting because when you so when you got into, so my
• 45:14
  story basically was around two years ago, it was going so well
• 45:18
  with my hosting business at the my fucking dumbass was like, let
• 45:20
  me start a podcast and then that podcast ended up blowing up.
• 45:24
  So I slowly started getting away from Mining and then holy crap,
• 45:28
  you're comes the bear market and Mining looks good again and I
• 45:31
  want to get back into that space But in that meantime, while that
• 45:35
  while I was doing that focusing on simply Adam, just you put
• 45:39
  your, you put, you put your head in the mining gay man and you
• 45:41
  learned a lot of crap, dude, and it's really really fucking nice
• 45:45
  to see that. Dude, I remember we would have
• 45:46
  conversations in the beginning and you're the one asking me
• 45:49
  questions. Oh, great.
• 45:50
  And holy shit. How far you've come my dude.
• 45:52
  So I was that's fucking awesome. Well as I think, I think those
• 45:59
  who are who are most compelled and most may be obsessed or
• 46:03
  excited about how Bitcoin impacts the world of energy.
• 46:08
  I think they tend to be pretty altruistic and peaceful kind of
• 46:12
  people because Like like Marshall said, the way that we
• 46:17
  really lift Humanity. Press way that humans have like
• 46:21
  life is better. The next Century that it was
• 46:22
  last century is access to abundant in economic energy,
• 46:26
  right? And energy and power and when
• 46:29
  you really start to understand the world of energy in the
• 46:31
  world, power Bitcoin, just becomes this kind of infinitely,
• 46:36
  beneficial Catalyst, to getting humans to behave correctly.
• 46:41
  There's so many things in the energy markets and power
• 46:42
  markets, At create deadweight loss, write a lot of its
• 46:45
  regulation. Right?
• 46:46
  That's what government does best is, they create deadweight loss
• 46:48
  but Bitcoin kind of like revives, a lot of that, right?
• 46:52
  It kind of it, it shows true north, right?
• 46:56
  Shows energy producers and power producers.
• 46:59
  What true north is, remember what they're doing and and
• 47:02
  penalizes them for being an efficient, right?
• 47:05
  I said this the other day where you know, 20 years ago, if You
• 47:08
  Came Upon a massive hydroelectric facility and you
• 47:11
  knew that they were wasting, you know, 50% And up the power that
• 47:14
  they're generating. Everyone would just be like, oh,
• 47:16
  that kind of sucks. Well, but at least there's room
• 47:18
  for the communities to grow around.
• 47:19
  You know, they've got more power than they need, and that's kind
• 47:22
  of good. I guess, like everyone just kind
• 47:24
  of like, Shake It Off. Like it.
• 47:25
  That's not a bad thing. Like they just it's what it is,
• 47:28
  what it is, right? It's physics, we Bitcoin.
• 47:30
  If you're wasting half your power, you're an idiot.
• 47:33
  You're an absolute idiot, right? You're leaving money on the
• 47:35
  table, write your and your competitors gonna be able to
• 47:38
  kick your ass because they're gonna be able to make more value
• 47:41
  with the exact same amount of BTUs.
• 47:43
  Sore kilowatt-hours, right? They're going to make more money
• 47:46
  with the exact same amount of hydrocarbons then you are.
• 47:49
  And I tell the story of the gas producers know if Bitcoin is
• 47:51
  what I think it is. It's just a matter of time until
• 47:54
  you understand it. Because you know, you're either
• 47:56
  going to understand it or you're going to, you're going to get
• 47:58
  your ass kicked and you're not going to be competing in this
• 47:59
  game for very long. And so that's, that's the part I
• 48:02
  love most is that raw competition.
• 48:05
  None of us can cheat each other. Marshal Marshal cannot, you
• 48:08
  know, been some laws of physics that I can't to give himself
• 48:12
  some kind of, you know, competitive.
• 48:13
  Advantage. Bitcoin is the free is the
• 48:16
  freest but also the fairest money for that.
• 48:18
  Yes, you don't eat. That's, that's a beautiful
• 48:21
  thing, it totally is and it really aligns incentives.
• 48:25
  I think that's one of the things that blows my mind, the most,
• 48:28
  right? And nothing else does that
• 48:30
  right, in monetizes energy. That would have just gone to
• 48:34
  waste and all of a sudden for the first time ever that
• 48:38
  isolated energy, that stranded energy has value, right?
• 48:42
  And you were mentioning a Erica. Do the dude.
• 48:44
  There's a ton of isolated. I was fortunate enough to visit
• 48:48
  Africa when I was younger, we get it.
• 48:51
  You're a rich, kids fun, and I was and then I lost it all and
• 48:58
  then I can then I got it back. Thank you sir.
• 49:04
  But but yeah, no, I was fortunate enough.
• 49:07
  There's very isolated communities and it's so funny.
• 49:10
  When you say that's like I was fortunate enough to go to a
• 49:13
  facility or a rich. Is a motherfucking.
• 49:16
  I would change the language to like people love and it's the
• 49:20
  positive side of the of the language that people love to
• 49:22
  use, right? People love to say that Bitcoin,
• 49:23
  you know, rescues or monetizes stranded energy.
• 49:26
  I like to say Bitcoin, penalizes waste, right?
• 49:31
  And that's the way it because, you know, for for so long, you
• 49:34
  know, flaring in the oil field was just it's normal.
• 49:36
  It's what you got to do, right? You got all this gas, that
• 49:38
  comes, it's not like you're gonna stop producing oil to the
• 49:40
  world needs oil, right? When you petroleum, you gotta
• 49:43
  do. Burn the gas off.
• 49:44
  Now it hurts now producers lay in bed at night and they know
• 49:48
  the actual dollar amount that they're sacrificing by Flair.
• 49:51
  That changes Behavior, right? That changes how people wake up
• 49:54
  and what like, you know, he's gonna wake up in the morning and
• 49:56
  he's going to get his day is going to be different because he
• 49:58
  feels that pain. That pain is what incentivizes
• 50:01
  people to behave differently, right?
• 50:02
  And that's that's what I love. I want to take the last 10-15
• 50:07
  minutes to talk about is what I actually had on the thing.
• 50:11
  And I'm really curious to both of Both you gentlemen you you're
• 50:16
  obviously you've Bet Your Life on Bitcoin mining Bitcoin.
• 50:19
  I'm I bet my life on bitcoin as well but mostly from the media
• 50:22
  standpoint but it's all the same thing.
• 50:24
  It's all the same body. What are your guys thoughts on
• 50:30
  the continued aggressivity by Regulators?
• 50:34
  There was actually was a Bloomberg article this week that
• 50:37
  EU Regulators want to label proof-of-work, miners as 200g
• 50:43
  Intensive. And of course they're advocating
• 50:45
  for proof of stake. We all know that you can capture
• 50:48
  proof of steak. Look at how much look at.
• 50:51
  Look at how much of a theorem is actively censoring for the u.s.
• 50:54
  US government. Through All Phases compliant
• 50:56
  blocks right. Clearly I don't believe it has
• 50:59
  anything to do with the in the environment.
• 51:00
  We both know that Bitcoin, if anything, incentivizes green
• 51:04
  energy without the need for government subsidy.
• 51:07
  So what are your thoughts? I'll start with with Marshall,
• 51:10
  then then we'll hit Adam. What are your guys thoughts on?
• 51:14
  B administration's report right? Basically, bashing
• 51:18
  proof-of-work, mining even going on to say that they could you
• 51:23
  could potentially ban it. If the industry doesn't adhere
• 51:26
  to ungodly standards that no other industry is meant to
• 51:32
  follow. What are your personal?
• 51:34
  If that attacks on this Marshall?
• 51:35
  I've been talking to Ben. Ben guy always fuck up.
• 51:38
  His last name, Chief mining officer a bit farms and been
• 51:41
  going back and forth a lot. Things are all basically things
• 51:45
  are things are warming up. What are your thoughts?
• 51:49
  What do you see? What from your perspective?
• 51:51
  Marshall from, where you work in the, in the, in the bowels of
• 51:55
  the industry and I say that in a good way.
• 51:57
  What's going on? That's interesting, man.
• 52:00
  I think I can give you the Texas a kind of perspective.
• 52:06
  There is very clear evidence that had Bitcoin miners not been
• 52:11
  around this as recently. Is this summer this summer in
• 52:14
  Texas was brutal, hot, stupid, hot and even back to the two
• 52:20
  winter storms, we had had minors in Texas, not being around.
• 52:25
  It would have been a lot worse. The here's the reality of Texas,
• 52:31
  and a lot of places that have a heavy renewable grid mix, when
• 52:37
  the winds not blowing and The Sun Ain't shining and you're
• 52:42
  cold, That tends to kind of warp your perception.
• 52:46
  You're starting to see a lot of that in Germany.
• 52:47
  Now they're firing up the coal, fire power plants and all this
• 52:50
  kind of stuff I think if people get cold enough and people get
• 52:55
  tired enough of paying so much for powder that narrative starts
• 52:59
  to bleed away, even you're seeing companies like BlackRock
• 53:03
  start to backpedal their ESG narrative and their ESG mandates
• 53:08
  for their funds. I think.
• 53:15
  Regardless, there are always going to be places where mining
• 53:20
  can add efficiencies to businesses and communities
• 53:25
  across the board. And you've got companies like
• 53:28
  Riot that are doing a great job of telling people, this story of
• 53:32
  how, you know, - actually you Texas at this point cannot not
• 53:37
  have money. That's the way I see it.
• 53:42
  Texas is always been a place of a Bastion of Freedom, low
• 53:46
  regulation. You know, I've had every major
• 53:51
  political party come to our mine.
• 53:53
  See it you know Chad from Riot will talk about all the jobs
• 53:58
  that miners creating and the problem we have now are people
• 54:06
  who are going outside of their jurisdiction.
• 54:08
  Shout-out mom, Elizabeth Warren. Who are saying things that are
• 54:15
  just like not true like oh how can miners use taxpayer dollars
• 54:20
  and subsidized power? None of.
• 54:21
  That's fucking true. No, minor in the state of Texas
• 54:25
  is taking anything away from any taxpayer.
• 54:27
  In fact, it's quite the opposite.
• 54:31
  Texas has a problem with base load generation and baseload
• 54:34
  consumption. There's something called a duck
• 54:35
  curve, which is where the energy is produced.
• 54:40
  The most is in the The day for Renewables and at night, the
• 54:44
  wind blows hard at night and the sun shines bright during the day
• 54:47
  when nobody is at home and on the weekends nobody's at work to
• 54:50
  use that extra power without miners.
• 54:54
  Texas becomes Germany, that's just it.
• 54:58
  That's the the short and long of it.
• 55:00
  And we are fortunate to have Senators like Ted Cruz who
• 55:04
  actually understand it who have actually kind of calm too many
• 55:09
  facilities and seen and learned. And you know, the guys at the
• 55:13
  Texas blockchain council are doing really good work at
• 55:17
  educating people. So I think Texas in particular
• 55:21
  is not going to have that big of a problem just because it's
• 55:25
  always been the kind of go kick rocks from a regulation
• 55:29
  standpoint but I can't speak for the rest of the country.
• 55:31
  I don't mind anywhere else and I think in general, if I end up
• 55:35
  mining in Africa, Africa doesn't give a shit either.
• 55:38
  So, so thanks for that. - I appreciate that perspective now
• 55:43
  to Denver Denver Mina me and you we go back and forth on Twitter
• 55:47
  we retweet and like a lot of our shit because I think we are we
• 55:51
  are staunch. We are staunchly against the
• 55:55
  Greta thumb Berg Kool-Aid, that a lot of people have drank and
• 56:00
  that is potentially going to send Europe Into the Dark Ages
• 56:05
  this winter. When is this all end, man?
• 56:08
  This climate policy that is currently has its crosshairs on
• 56:12
  Bitcoin mining. I don't believe it has anything
• 56:13
  to do with the climate. Is dangerous and it will kill
• 56:17
  people. It's the people, it's, this
• 56:19
  isn't a joke, any more? It's not about Greta thumb, it's
• 56:24
  bad energy. Policy is more dangerous than by
• 56:28
  MIT change and people haven't woken up to that.
• 56:31
  So what are your thoughts on that?
• 56:32
  Denver. Yeah.
• 56:33
  And I'm glad Marshall you when I'm writing my first pan and I'm
• 56:36
  glad I'm glad for your perspective because I mean
• 56:40
  really what you're saying to is the truth is on our side and I
• 56:42
  think that's what I would like to say is like I'm I'm an
• 56:45
  advocate for for objective truth and I'm an advocate for human
• 56:49
  flourishing, right? And so the fact of the matter is
• 56:54
  energy and energy production power generation are really the
• 56:57
  only thing that can can lift humans out of poverty and give
• 57:01
  humans the quality of life that we have right today and even a
• 57:05
  better one in the future. And so I've seen the way Bitcoin
• 57:08
  interacts with energy production of power generation and it's
• 57:12
  grossly positive and so we're but you're right.
• 57:16
  There's this massive enemy and this is the fight of this is the
• 57:18
  fight of the decade is the one against those who think we can
• 57:24
  control the weather through taxation, and, and legislation.
• 57:29
  Right? I do I tend to believe That when
• 57:33
  people get together, like centralized governments when
• 57:35
  people get together and spend other people's money, they don't
• 57:39
  spend it real well. And Today because they're not,
• 57:43
  they're not really beholding to the consequences of their of
• 57:45
  their behavior of what they, you know, what they spent the money
• 57:48
  on and how much they spent. And so I think the government's
• 57:50
  really terrible for solving problems, they usually create
• 57:52
  them history would probably back me up and beyond that.
• 57:57
  I think to ask somebody to To thwart their own quality of life
• 58:04
  in order to change the weather. I mean, that that's akin to like
• 58:09
  the Mayans, you know, sacrificing fourteen-year-old
• 58:13
  Boys in order to change the weather.
• 58:15
  Like well what's the difference? It's to me it's kind of asinine
• 58:19
  because even if you want to get to a place where there's you
• 58:21
  know some quote unquote science behind it.
• 58:24
  What you'll find is at the end of the day, you have to answer
• 58:26
  the question. Do we think that 204 the 228
• 58:31
  Auburn Nations around the world. However, many different cultures
• 58:35
  languages and ways of living do we think that that we're going
• 58:39
  to be able to achieve an ideal atmospheric composition of the
• 58:43
  planet through taxation and legislation through taking
• 58:47
  people's money and spending it where they wouldn't spend it and
• 58:50
  telling people how they can behave.
• 58:51
  If you think that we can achieve some specific atmosphere
• 58:54
  composition through. Those means, I think you haven't
• 58:58
  thought enough about it or your, or your the person that gets the
• 59:01
  to spend the money. And so, you know, I tend to just
• 59:05
  think it's a flight of the individual versus the
• 59:08
  collective, right? And, you know, I said this the
• 59:10
  other day like as much as I joke around as much as I like to
• 59:14
  mock, you know, some of the claims, by Green energy or
• 59:17
  renewable energy, like I really applaud guys like Marshall who
• 59:22
  you know what? People speak about it, frankly,
• 59:25
  and and aren't don't let their bias maybe.
• 59:28
  Even if they have one, they don't let it necessarily tread
• 59:30
  which power They go to her use, they're completely indifferent a
• 59:34
  kilowatt hours of kilowatt hour. Just as Bitcoin treats treats
• 59:37
  them. I tend to want to just try to
• 59:40
  correct the pendulum write and tell people like you shed light
• 59:43
  on how inefficient some of this power generation can be on an
• 59:48
  economic side of things, right? But at the end of the day I love
• 59:51
  all energy. Production power generation.
• 59:53
  I think wind power is freaking insane.
• 59:55
  There's very small applications for wind power but the places
• 59:58
  where it's like you can't even stand up because it's so windy.
• 1:00:01
  90% of the time. It's just like your friend
• 1:00:05
  Marshall living next to a river, right?
• 1:00:07
  You're sitting there and you're just watching all of this, you
• 1:00:09
  know, energy flow naturally through the force of gravity,
• 1:00:12
  right through physical forces in the world.
• 1:00:14
  We live in. And if you could harness that on
• 1:00:17
  a marginal basis, that's amazing, right?
• 1:00:19
  Like, that's, that's great. I think it's amazing for the
• 1:00:22
  individual. I think, for the collective,
• 1:00:26
  It's not very you know, sufficient and certainly you
• 1:00:30
  know what we're seeing in Germany is just that right the
• 1:00:33
  inflexibility of wind and solar by the way wind and solar are
• 1:00:37
  not new tech that's that's one of the crazy things too is they
• 1:00:39
  think they act like it's new technology.
• 1:00:41
  This is you know 15th century. Eighth Century technology.
• 1:00:45
  We used to humans used to take giant like lava rocks, Stones a
• 1:00:49
  made of a particular mineral that holds its heat really well,
• 1:00:53
  you know, like a granite and they would set them out in The
• 1:00:55
  Sun and they throw fire on them and they would just then carry
• 1:00:58
  and roll the stones into a living quarter and it would
• 1:01:00
  insulate, you know, the a massive building this rock would
• 1:01:03
  just sit there and radiate heat. It was effectively stored solar
• 1:01:06
  energy, right? That's what we're doing the same
• 1:01:08
  shit today which is you know we've refined the last fifteen
• 1:01:11
  twenty percent of the efficiency down to these photovoltaic
• 1:01:14
  panels that are made from refined minerals things but we
• 1:01:17
  humans were doing the same thing long ago in my opinion, it's
• 1:01:21
  petroleum, it's natural gas, that are the real killer app and
• 1:01:25
  Nuclear, right? I think that the future is you
• 1:01:28
  want to talk about really, really energy, dense, energy
• 1:01:31
  density, uranium is tough to beat, it's like orders of
• 1:01:36
  magnitude tough to beat. And so, I think for large
• 1:01:40
  populace is for truly over production of energy.
• 1:01:44
  Nuclear is is great, but you cannot have a nuclear world
• 1:01:48
  without a robust and abundant petroleum world, right?
• 1:01:52
  Petroleum is what gets us to nuclear.
• 1:01:54
  You can't Operate, you know, erect manufacture, you cannot
• 1:01:57
  have nuclear, you can't maintain it and honestly, you can't
• 1:02:00
  really back it and support it the way.
• 1:02:01
  It needs to without a massive and healthy petroleum, petroleum
• 1:02:06
  market. And so I just don't, I'm just
• 1:02:08
  don't subscribe to the fact that we're changing the weather, and
• 1:02:10
  by the way, the weather will always change.
• 1:02:12
  It's always been hard to live on earth.
• 1:02:14
  Energy is what gives us the ability to fight this this, you
• 1:02:19
  know, horrible rock that we find ourselves on.
• 1:02:23
  Yes, it's sustainable for like, but it's Great like Marshalls.
• 1:02:26
  I mean, this place is like, you're out.
• 1:02:27
  You're out in the middle of West, Texas, for 4 hours without
• 1:02:30
  water. Like you'll, you'll die normally
• 1:02:33
  of after, like two or three days without water and West Texas.
• 1:02:35
  And might be like, 12 hours, you know, all of a sudden, you talk
• 1:02:39
  about things like, you know, air conditioning, and concrete, and
• 1:02:43
  steel and insulation. And all of a sudden people can
• 1:02:45
  live in the middle of the desert comfortable, right?
• 1:02:48
  That's a product of energy. And so I think the more energy
• 1:02:50
  we can produce the better, I think petroleum brings us to a
• 1:02:53
  world where nuclear is Is able to be abundant and able to be
• 1:02:57
  economic. I want, I want a modular reactor
• 1:02:59
  in my backyard. I want, I want so much power
• 1:03:01
  that I could, you know, shoot an asteroid out of the sky.
• 1:03:03
  And I don't even have to ask society's permission to save the
• 1:03:05
  world. Like, that's what I want, right?
• 1:03:09
  And so what I want that for everybody and so Hopefully we
• 1:03:13
  win, we go, right? Hopefully this decade this
• 1:03:15
  climate, change this, this you need to live differently and
• 1:03:18
  give us your money in order to change the weather.
• 1:03:20
  Hopefully, that is seen. I hope I helped Bitcoin helps
• 1:03:23
  shine light on on the facade. The fact that this is the way to
• 1:03:29
  go if we lose we're all moving to Kenya.
• 1:03:31
  Fuck it. If you if we lose.
• 1:03:33
  Yeah I'm gonna know something else.
• 1:03:37
  No but yeah so I agree. I think it's definitely a
• 1:03:40
  Grassroots. I'm in the media.
• 1:03:42
  Kind of thing in the the media aspect of it.
• 1:03:44
  So you're an extremist Nico, what speak?
• 1:03:47
  Let's be, let's be doing extreme.
• 1:03:49
  I have to go everyday and convince people without, you
• 1:03:53
  know, rustling too many feathers and not getting the platform.
• 1:03:56
  So I get you, man. It's really Grassroots movement.
• 1:03:59
  It's about winning over the hearts and minds of people and
• 1:04:02
  showing them that with Bitcoin. It's better.
• 1:04:05
  And a lot of them have Stockholm syndrome because they're
• 1:04:08
  advocating for a system that fucking steals from them, and
• 1:04:11
  they're blind to Ooh it. Anyways, I want to wind this
• 1:04:13
  down a couple two last questions for you guys.
• 1:04:16
  One last one for Marshall and then one last one for Denver for
• 1:04:19
  Marshall, you first. Where is the industry going in
• 1:04:23
  the next five to ten years? I don't know.
• 1:04:27
  But I don't know about 10 years. I can say, in the next five
• 1:04:32
  years, you will see many more people experimenting.
• 1:04:38
  You'll see many more people trying to see if You know, the
• 1:04:42
  better ways they can mine in the great words of Adam back, he who
• 1:04:46
  runs the greatest Chicken Shack data center wins and you'll
• 1:04:50
  start to see people getting more and more efficient through
• 1:04:53
  either their business models or the way they cool machines or
• 1:04:57
  the way they operate, you'll see more Savvy derivatives coming
• 1:05:00
  about people like the guy's a valkyrie are doing a good job,
• 1:05:03
  trying to make some interesting products that we can kind of be
• 1:05:08
  the chest burster in the financial industry.
• 1:05:10
  Leverage The Insane Ponzi schemes that they have done in
• 1:05:14
  order to make sure Bitcoin can Leach and be a succubus on the
• 1:05:19
  traditional Finance sector. I think you'll see more of that.
• 1:05:24
  And overall I think you'll see a big, big knock-down drag-out
• 1:05:29
  fight against proof of work. We are affirmatively and clearly
• 1:05:35
  in the, and then they fight you portion of the battle here.
• 1:05:40
  I think that'll rage into the Until people are tired of being
• 1:05:43
  cold in the winter, effectively that, that that's what I see
• 1:05:47
  playing out at 10 years. I don't know, man.
• 1:05:50
  I don't even know if we'll all be here in 10 years.
• 1:05:52
  I couldn't tell you appreciate that, Marshall and I agree.
• 1:05:57
  We were definitely in the, then they fight you stage.
• 1:05:58
  Adam, you're quite of success story.
• 1:06:00
  My friend, I saw you rise from nothing to no one to somebody
• 1:06:05
  Denver. Phoenix in a bit.
• 1:06:07
  You Denver Phoenix. That's right.
• 1:06:09
  So why don't you tell everybody if they're Stood in getting a
• 1:06:13
  job in Bitcoin mining getting a job in the industry.
• 1:06:16
  What would you suggest to them? What is the best place to start?
• 1:06:20
  How did you start? It's a great.
• 1:06:23
  A great question. I started.
• 1:06:26
  I was annoying gas and I saw how Bitcoin was going to change oil
• 1:06:29
  and douse. I the only person I could I
• 1:06:33
  found that was talking about mining Bitcoin World filled with
• 1:06:36
  deep Barber, right? And so, the first thing I did to
• 1:06:39
  try to get a job as I called him and I begged him for a job and I
• 1:06:43
  begged him to take my money. I wanted to be investor and
• 1:06:46
  Upstream data. He wouldn't take either because
• 1:06:50
  he, you know, he wasn't looking to give away equity and he
• 1:06:54
  wasn't looking to hire some random person.
• 1:06:56
  You know, how to get out of Colorado, who only I have a very
• 1:07:00
  item minimal oil and gas. You know, career at that point
• 1:07:03
  of very minimal oil and gas career at the point, but he said
• 1:07:05
  he's like, you know, you can prove work, right?
• 1:07:07
  He's like, you can go Go try to get me some customers or
• 1:07:11
  something. And if somebody says that, you
• 1:07:12
  know, they came to me and you were the reason like I'll give
• 1:07:15
  you a kickback, man. Like and then we can talk about,
• 1:07:18
  you know, you doing it again. So I just went through work,
• 1:07:20
  right? I started a little consultancy.
• 1:07:22
  It was a consultancy of one employee.
• 1:07:23
  It's me. And I had a book of oil and gas
• 1:07:28
  producers and so I called them up and I just tried trying to
• 1:07:30
  sell them on this idea of monetizing their flare gas and
• 1:07:34
  you know, after I think it was maybe 12 months.
• 1:07:39
  Of 14 months of me doing that. Finally, I called Steve up.
• 1:07:44
  And I was like, hey man, this industry is kind of becoming
• 1:07:47
  not, so crazy. But idea, I know I've had some
• 1:07:48
  successful phone calls. What are you saying he's like,
• 1:07:52
  yeah, I meant to call you and hire you because, you know, I've
• 1:07:55
  had everyone. I talk to says that they talk to
• 1:07:57
  you at some point. So I work my way into it, right?
• 1:08:00
  I busted ass and and because I believed in it, I knew it was
• 1:08:04
  gonna happen, right? At whether I believed in it or
• 1:08:05
  not Bitcoin was going to make it to the oil field, right?
• 1:08:07
  Because I of no, Sequence of me Bitcoin, it was going to be
• 1:08:10
  successful in your field. I just wanted to be a part of
• 1:08:14
  it, and so if that's what you want to do, I'd say find out
• 1:08:18
  what that is. You know what interests you,
• 1:08:21
  what makes you get up in the morning and find a way to
• 1:08:26
  bitcoin relates to it. And then if that happens to be
• 1:08:29
  Bitcoin mining, I think you'll have no problem going out
• 1:08:33
  because you'll find you know who you want to work for and go
• 1:08:36
  prove some work for them either, you know, through an Assess or
• 1:08:39
  through getting them in front of who they want to get in front of
• 1:08:42
  building, what they want to build the corners like to work
• 1:08:46
  with people who want to do that. So I don't think it'll take you
• 1:08:49
  that long beyond that. What I'd say is Bitcoin
• 1:08:56
  companies are going to be there different animal, right?
• 1:08:59
  The whole world. The whole world is going to
• 1:09:02
  change very very slowly but Bitcoin companies specifically
• 1:09:06
  companies on a Bitcoin standard. It's going to be it's going to
• 1:09:11
  be a stronger. It's a harder fight, right?
• 1:09:13
  Because we're not like like Marshall to said, the fights
• 1:09:15
  come in, right? We're going to be labeled
• 1:09:16
  extremists, we're going to be labeled.
• 1:09:18
  I mean II used to say this back in 2018 2019 when I was maybe
• 1:09:22
  less refined in my thinking about the climate alarmists,
• 1:09:27
  some call them, is there are many of them out there.
• 1:09:30
  I mean I got you. It doesn't take much of a Google
• 1:09:32
  search to find them who will call us murderers, right?
• 1:09:34
  They'll call us racist because the weather predominantly
• 1:09:37
  affects poor. Unity some color and we're
• 1:09:40
  contributing to extreme weather. So end up literally, say that
• 1:09:44
  because we're contributing to extreme weather, like we're
• 1:09:46
  responsible for those deaths. Meanwhile, you know, they they
• 1:09:50
  don't eat meat and they drive a Prius and so they don't
• 1:09:55
  contribute to those things like that.
• 1:09:56
  It's a very interesting. Mental breakdown II.
• 1:10:03
  It's almost a religion and so it's like I fear these people
• 1:10:07
  seriously, I said this on the internet, the other day, my I
• 1:10:10
  don't have guns because I think somebody's going to come and
• 1:10:12
  take my Bitcoin. I've guns because I think
• 1:10:13
  somebody's going to come, try to shut me up.
• 1:10:16
  I just give me to stop mocking the religion of climate
• 1:10:20
  alarmism. And so, You know, I hope we win,
• 1:10:24
  but I'm ready for the worst. I'm ready to be labeled horrible
• 1:10:28
  things, which means those Bitcoin, users, Bitcoin
• 1:10:30
  companies, those of us who are out there.
• 1:10:31
  Championing it. We're going to be yelled at but
• 1:10:33
  so at the end of the day, it's not for the faint of heart.
• 1:10:36
  Are you better really actually want to live in a free world in
• 1:10:41
  a world where you may get, you know, chastised for trying to
• 1:10:46
  liberate people. But that's that's the world that
• 1:10:48
  I want to live in. Because what am a person say You
• 1:10:52
  know, if you if you prefer comfortable servitude, right?
• 1:10:57
  May your change rest lightly? And May and may you never be
• 1:11:02
  seen as one of our countrymen, right?
• 1:11:05
  If you prefer that servitude that calm communism to the
• 1:11:10
  tumultuous four C's of freedom. Freedom is scary.
• 1:11:13
  Freedom is like you can get people have guns and because
• 1:11:18
  nobody wants to tell anybody else that they can't buy a gun.
• 1:11:20
  So all of a sudden you got guns because people want to be able
• 1:11:22
  to defend themselves, which means you have, you're going to
• 1:11:25
  have, you know, absolute great opportunity for horrible
• 1:11:31
  violence and things like that. Freedom always comes with the
• 1:11:34
  potential for terrible things. Hopefully the information age
• 1:11:39
  will help Foster you know, living a good life because
• 1:11:42
  reputation really matters, right?
• 1:11:44
  Because people now know who people are the world's really
• 1:11:46
  not that big of a place, you know.
• 1:11:50
  People will point out and say this person is a bad person.
• 1:11:52
  They're doing all these bad things and hopefully people will
• 1:11:56
  with the truth, will win the day and good.
• 1:11:57
  In the day, right? And so, but it's not going to
• 1:12:00
  be, it's going to be comfortable.
• 1:12:01
  It's going to be an uncomfortable decade.
• 1:12:03
  If you plan on being a Bitcoin and you plan on working for a
• 1:12:05
  Bitcoin company, you might have to take pay cuts.
• 1:12:07
  You know, we Bitcoins volatile, it's going to be attacked by the
• 1:12:09
  government. The government could hurt price,
• 1:12:11
  right? They can't stop this network.
• 1:12:13
  They can't stop this idea, but they can shatter price in the
• 1:12:16
  short term, and then they can take a whole bunch of short
• 1:12:18
  positions before they do it. And, you know, build up their
• 1:12:21
  coffers of power, their coffers of wealth.
• 1:12:24
  And so it's it's going to get rough but If you're in, if, if
• 1:12:29
  that flight, excites you more than, you know, and, and the
• 1:12:33
  fear of living in servitude horrifies you, then maybe join
• 1:12:37
  right. Otherwise, you know, if you're
• 1:12:40
  not ready for that, It's going to be rough.
• 1:12:44
  Oof oof. Oh man, oh man.
• 1:12:47
  Oh man, from the heart and I can confirm, I saw this, I saw this
• 1:12:52
  I met Denver when he was, nobody gettin into mining learning and
• 1:12:56
  stuff. And now look at him fucking
• 1:12:59
  expert. My friend radicalized.
• 1:13:01
  Absolutely. Rad Rad.
• 1:13:02
  I'm ready. Well guys gentlemen I really I
• 1:13:12
  fucking enjoyed it. I hope you guys found a valuable
• 1:13:15
  potentially, you want to get into the industry.
• 1:13:17
  Heard it from Denver. You want to know what the hell
• 1:13:19
  is going to happen. The next five year.
• 1:13:21
  Will next 10 years? We'll all be gone according to
• 1:13:22
  Marshall next five years. You'll know what's going to
• 1:13:24
  happen and I want to thank both you guys because you guys made
• 1:13:29
  my life, very easy today. Most of the time I have to
• 1:13:32
  handhold, you guys were riffing off each other, it was beautiful
• 1:13:36
  to see and when those moments happen you get back and shut the
• 1:13:40
  fuck up. And you let the Happen.
• 1:13:43
  And that's exactly what you guys did.
• 1:13:44
  So, really appreciate it. I really loved it.
• 1:13:47
  Guys, there's another episode of Simply Bitcoin IRL, and we'll
• 1:13:51
  see you on the next one. And wrap it up, guys takes about
• 1:13:54
  10 seconds, which one's the best crypto
• 1:14:10
  asset will Bitcoins, the best crypto out.
• 1:14:12
  It's okay, what's the second best there is no second best?