Latest / The Christian Reeve Podcast / Jane Labowitch (AKA Princess Etch) | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #75 |

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Jane Labowitch (AKA Princess Etch) | The Christian Reeve Podcast | #75 | · The Christian Reeve Podcast

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  It's another episode of the Christian we've podcast.
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  But are you subscribed? If not make sure to like, share
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  and subscribe, spread the word about the Christian Reef podcast
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  and enjoy this episode. Hello and welcome to another
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  episode of the Christian we've podcast.
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  Today's guest is a professional Etch-a-Sketch artist, I didn't
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  even know this was a thing, it's really cool.
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  Choose all the way from the USA. Her name is Jane, lab, a witch
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  but she goes by the moniker princess.
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  Eh, welcome to the show how you did.
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  Thank you, I'm doing great. How are you?
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  Very good, very good. This is, this is exciting.
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  I actually got a message from a friend of mine.
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  He's been on the show before, shout out to Brock teal.
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  And he basically said, I need to get this person on your show and
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  I was like, this is really cool and I knew nothing about this,
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  right? Okay.
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  I just wanted to quickly confirm, because this is what he
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  said. He said that you are the, I
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  believe the fourth American, like, the own, that one of four
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  people in America that actually does this.
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  Like these edges sketch designs is that correct?
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  There are so, there are two of us that Do It full time and then
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  there's a small handful of us that do it to some degree of.
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  Nationally. And then the largest pool is
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  people who do it more as a hobby, but even that largest
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  pool is still very small, like a hundred people maybe.
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  Yeah. It's a very small, small world,
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  the the world of Etch-a-Sketch Artistry.
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  So what's like that Community? Like, I mean, given that there's
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  not like a lot of people doing it.
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  Like, do you have like a, I guess, like a support network
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  for that? Or is there like, for example,
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  when you were starting out with, did you kind of like learn from
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  them or did you Do-it-yourself kind of thing like them from
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  scratch. Sure, great question.
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  So when I started the community was very different than it is
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  today and it's all thanks to the internet that I was able to find
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  other Edge, a sketch artist. So I started sharing my work
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  online around 2007 and back then the social media sphere was very
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  different so my primary source of finding other Edge.
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  A sketch artist was through a website called Flickr which is
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  yeah talk about blast from the past.
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  Yeah. Yeah, some liquor was my first
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  place and then my space so good time.
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  Yeah. Nowadays the community is mostly
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  centralized on Facebook. We have a really active small,
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  little Edge, a sketch artist group.
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  And we also have a pretty good presence on Instagram and
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  Tick-Tock. So we're pretty familiar with
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  each other. Through our usernames and
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  recognize the work that each other creates and its overall
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  super supportive. Yes, it's interesting.
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  I When I was looking through all of the different platforms that
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  you're on, they're all kind of like really varied according to
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  like things like numbers and stuff.
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  And to be honest, like numbers don't really matter in the grand
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  scheme of things. But someone in your position,
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  who's, you know, you've been on various chat shows.
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  You're beginning to pick up momentum and stuff with this, is
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  this really interesting like to give you an example.
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  When I dropped on your YouTube I was like, what I do expected you
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  to have like hundreds of thousands of Subs at this point
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  but then if you go on another platform, I guess ones that are
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  more geared towards like short form.
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  Content, it's blown up. It's doing really well.
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  So I guess it's maybe, maybe just time I guess, isn't it?
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  Yeah, it is interesting to me because I have been sharing Art
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  Online since 2007. And honestly, it's only in the
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  last year since pandemic began that.
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  I've actually started really gaining traction.
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  And for me, I haven't yet determined how important those
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  numbers are because I haven't haven't been able to take them
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  out for a spin yet for my work but Sample before pandemic.
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  Began what I wasn't on Tick-Tock yet.
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  And Tick-Tock is my most popular platform.
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  I've got like a hundred and forty thousand something like
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  that and then you've got YouTube, which is at like 37,000
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  or something. But when pandemic began, I was
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  only at like 500 subscribers. So it's really interesting to
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  see how people in general are just communicating or not
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  communicating, but consuming so much more Digital content right
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  now and it's put me in a really great position.
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  As a content creator to get in front of more faces since
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  everybody is still at home. But it is it is strange that
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  there is like such a disparity from app to app.
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  Like for example, I feel like I've put the most effort just
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  across the board over the last few years and to Instagram and
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  every single follower an Instagram feels like a slow
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  climb up a rickety ladder. Like it's it's a But it's not a
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  tough, tough job, trying to, you know, grow there.
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  But I, you know, from everybody that I've talked to, it's just a
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  really difficult app to to gain a following on.
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  I'm in the exact same position except why except for like my
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  stuff isn't really going viral per se but like on my main
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  YouTube account that's the one that's like the slow build.
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  Like it's very slowly getting to 600 but then I started to
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  experiment with this short stuff because my friends were like why
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  are you not on tick-tock? Why are you not doing reels?
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  And I was like, I suppose I could do that but I just don't
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  know what to do, right? And then you start doing it.
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  You start experimenting and then it just it blows like, for
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  example, at a guest on the other day and you know, at what I
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  always do from from these podcasters, I'll cut stuff up.
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  I'll put you no longer clips on YouTube and then I'll put the
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  short clips on, you know, Instagram, realistic talking
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  cetera and like one of them randomly has just blown up and
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  got, like, 20K views and it's literally just us discussing
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  something. Nintendo for like 60 seconds.
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  And I don't understand the kind of the logic behind that because
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  with with, with what you're doing, it makes a lot more sense
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  because it's kind of perfect for those platforms.
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  Especially in the, I suppose like the tutorial start of the
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  things that people that want to learn how to do this themselves.
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  RT, people that are kind of like, had, you know, maybe I
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  have got, you know, a bit of a skill or a flair for creativity
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  or art and, like, all that looks like something I could do or,
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  you know, maybe it's just fun to kind of work with it to sketch.
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  Because it's like, retro and whatnot.
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  And so make, yeah. Basically my point is it makes a
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  lot of sense for it to work there, but I don't know for you,
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  did you kind of find it easier making the short form stuff, or
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  is it easier to do the long form?
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  Like, where do you sit on that? I feel like for the last few
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  years, I really have been gearing, my content toward short
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  form already, for example, because Instagram used to have
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  strict 60 second video. Limit already established, I was
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  already working within those parameters.
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  So when Tech talk rolled out the most difficult transition for me
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  was starting to fill vertically, that felt like a sacrilegious
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  thing to do. I was I was actually really
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  probably way more hesitant about doing so that I should have
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  been. But I also thought that, that
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  would penalize me on YouTube though.
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  I never could have predicted that YouTube would come out with
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  a feature called shorts, which only benefited me because they
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  were taking vertical content. That was that basically cloning
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  Tick-Tock right? Yeah, of course.
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  Yeah, whatever happens. Copying each other at this point
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  and I guess, I guess it makes sense.
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  I mean, the frustrating thing always not really a frustrating
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  thing. But I've been experimenting with
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  this shorts thing like I said before and I've been doing it on
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  YouTube as well and like one of my channels that's like a second
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  Channel, you know we're sitting on something like 60 subs and
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  it's flown up to like over 100 at this point.
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  Just from these really really short clips and I'm sitting
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  there scratching my brain because it's like I mean, I
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  don't know what what I'm saying, is that there's no pattern to
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  this, there's no like clear things like, okay, I should only
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  do this stuff or like, you and me, it's like some random, like,
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  what will actually start getting some attention.
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  Yeah, I definitely haven't been able to crack the code either.
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  Even though I've amassed a nice audience on Tick-Tock
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  specifically, it's still confound me as to what goes
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  viral and what doesn't like, for example, like a week ago, I
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  spent so much time and put like, For me, I put a lot of
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  production value into one specific video.
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  I shot a bunch of b-roll like I never shoot, b roll.
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  I usually just go candid straight with my cell phone and,
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  and I thought like this has got to go awesome.
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  It was topical, it was perfect. And of course the thing that you
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  put all the work into flops and then the thing that you shoot on
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  the Fly, the silly thought that popped into your head goes
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  viral. So it's like, I don't know what
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  is that. You said it's like the less
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  effort you put in. The better it will do is like,
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  yeah. And you almost feel guilty about
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  it because you feel like it's unearned and you then get
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  resentful that, the content that you put the most hardened to
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  doesn't seem to hit anybody. It doesn't seem to have an
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  audience for it. Yeah, it's a weird weird thing.
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  One of the things I've been pushing with with.
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  So what I've been doing lately is trying to focus on my
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  building a community as opposed to like, you know, creating
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  content for, you know, the purpose of getting views or the
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  purpose of Subs or whatever. So like what's your community?
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  Like I know that's a very broad question but like what they said
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  to you get like a lot of specific requests are they
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  leaning towards that different? I don't know.
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  Like popular culture things like yeah Community.
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  Like and like how do you sort of work with them to grow and
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  stuff? That's a great question.
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  So my community is pretty a demographically speaking.
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  Across the board, it tends to be more female leaning also.
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  So, it tends to be more kind of millennial age, but also thanks
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  to tick tock, it's gotten a lot younger.
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  And thankfully, I tend to attract the kind of audience
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  that I think I'd want to be friends with already, which is
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  really cool. A lot of people make requests
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  for things that I already would want to draw on an
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  Etch-a-Sketch. Whenever I do conversations over
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  livestreams, we tend to talk about things like anime and pop
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  culture and memes. And I think especially making
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  the meme specific content, really connects me with the kind
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  of audience that I want to be hanging.
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  Around, you know, people who like, get the joke in a way.
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  It's interesting. You say that actually, because
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  as before we came on, I was kind of, I suppose, I guess you could
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  call it networking. Like, I just like to have fun
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  and get ya get involved in this meme culture because it's fun at
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  the end of, hey, it's a blast. Yeah, and like, sometimes I'll
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  let you would just go on there and just type like funny
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  comments of people's videos and whatnot.
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  And like it's amazing how that can help you to grow your
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  audience. Because it's like, if you're
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  trying to like push your content, like Like hey come
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  check out my thing. Hey please subscribe to it that
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  no one reacts to that, but if you're kind of like just trying
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  to light form a relationship or you know even just have some fun
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  people react really well to that.
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  And then sometimes if you're lucky, you know, they'll share
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  your stuff, they'll I don't know, like just Yeah, I do
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  whatever. You know like it works, it works
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  that way. Absolutely, I'm a firm believer
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  in and just creating content that you believe in and that
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  provides value for your audience.
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  I there's a lot of I thinking for a while about making a video
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  about this. There's a lot of tropes on Tick
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  Tock specifically that are basically the Creator's trying
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  to manipulate the user base into following them.
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  You know, there's the classic like for part 2.
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  Don't This fly up there like, you know, wait for it.
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  Like, I just all of these little things.
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  It's like, it's so like asinine to me.
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  It's like, it's like trying to Pander, to me, to try to give me
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  to stick around. It's like, well, can't your
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  content speak for itself? Like, why do you have to work so
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  hard to to try to trick me or guilt me?
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  Which I think is way worse. Guilt me into and to enjoying
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  your content. I want to be able to just
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  provide something that somebody is already interested enough in
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  seeing to want to stick around. And, and and subscribe if their
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  own volition. Now, I think to a fault, I don't
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  like promote myself hard enough. Like, for example, when I do
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  YouTube videos, it's very common for Content creators to have a
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  little end card that says, you know, please follow us,
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  subscribe or something like that.
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  And it's, it's definitely like totally.
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  Okay. At this point, it's very common
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  for people to say, like, comment, subscribe, yada yada or
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  you know, comment if you think that this or that, and, and I
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  don't do any of that. And I know that, you know, Ruth,
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  the algorithms better if people actually engage, but my hope is
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  that people are already interested enough in engaging
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  with my content to kind of do that if their own volition.
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  I don't want to have to, you know, pull someone by the ear to
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  get them to, you know, to interact more with my content.
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  So that's that's my personal philosophy on it and hasn't
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  benefited me or hindered me. Who knows?
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  Maybe if I was pushing harder, I'd have a bigger audience but I
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  also don't, I don't want to feel like I'm forcing people to enjoy
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  what I make. I just want people all to find
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  me and stick around and that's how I find all my YouTube
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  content. Like I subscribe to hundreds of
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  people and I just find them of my own volition.
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  I never need to be reminded to subscribe if I enjoy something.
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  I just do it. Yeah I'm this.
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  I mean like I do I have introduced those calls to action
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  of the advice of friends. But I keep it very short, very
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  minimal like yeah and I think this is okay to do that.
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  I do think it is. I think I need to do that more,
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  but but I think there's a there's a fine line in mind.
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  I mean, I think it depends on the Creator and what the content
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  is Jin. And I mean, like, for example,
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  it when I'm releasing like music content, I put it right at the
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  end. And so, like they've seen the
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  whole song and then they can, you know, if they want to
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  subscribe there can. There's like a reminder I
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  suppose, but it's not like impeding the video and the same
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  is with your content. I feel like it would be
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  unnecessary because it's all predominantly stuff where you're
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  doing the design, right? So if there's like a random clip
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  you going on, hey, subscribe. Like, it probably would work but
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  it's like, I don't know. It just that's not why people
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  came to the video, you know, whereas if you're doing look at
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  the tutorial like, where it's like you in the video and like,
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  you're showing it off and stuff, like I guess it can kind of work
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  there so I guess it depends on the type of content, you're
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  delivering and stuff. Yeah, I agree.
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  And I have been trying to diversify my content more, a
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  used to be pretty much strictly time lapse, but I've been
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  working more toward, putting myself in front of the camera
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  more because people seem to connect with me a lot better
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  when they Me and hear me talk about my stuff.
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  Like even though I did a poll recently on YouTube where I
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  asked people, what kind of content do you want to see the
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  most? And what I got is the top voted
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  piece of content, was people who want to see me, do time lapse
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  videos, but do my narration over it because I like to share a
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  quick little story about maybe what I'm doing or something
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  related to the franchise or whatever.
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  I'm creating. I, it seems to connect a lot
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  better with people than just putting stock music on top of
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  footage. And I think it.
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  Yeah like again pushing on this like Community narrative.
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  I think once you start getting to that point where people are
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  talking to you and leaving your comments and say, hey I wish you
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  do this more or like you said, when you reach out and they say
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  something back, I think then you can start diversifying a bit
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  more and I'm creating that kind of community focused content as
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  opposed to just love what you normally do.
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  But yeah, I think it as harsh as it sounds like people have to
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  care about you first. And it's like this is one of the
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  reasons why I like if you look at my content online, like you
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  won't see me do a lot of like, Vlog or life stuff, like I do,
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  do it. But I focus more on creating the
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  stuff that I know is going to draw attention to the channel
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  because I'm trying to build that community.
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  And right now I'm just some guy, you know, trying to build stuff
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  so it's like oh, who cares like what you do in your daily life,
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  you know me, but if people are asking then, of course, then you
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  know, it's an opportunity. If nothing else.
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  Yeah. Absolutely.
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  Early. And I find that especially the
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  last few months, I have started answering a lot of that kind of
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  question. And the just natural engagement
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  that I've gotten from those kind of dialogues, has been
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  fantastic. People asking me what well you
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  know, what is the day in the life of an Etch-a-Sketch artist?
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  You know, questions like that where it's like you know it's
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  funny. I feel like I have answered it.
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  A million times may be one-on-one with people but maybe
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  it is time to record that into a video and really go in depth
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  about how I'm even able to conceive.
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  We make a living doing this. You know, I understand people
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  are very skeptical about it, for good reason.
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  Like, okay, yeah, I'm sorry, I'm probably gonna ask your video
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  obvious question here, but there are going to be some questions
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  here that you know what? My audience won't know.
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  But like other people who are familiar with, you would have
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  heard. So, I do apologize for that.
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  But I am intrigued. I would like to know personally.
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  Like how did you actually get into this?
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  Because clearly you have an art background?
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  You know, I can see that you have a baby.
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  The FAA in illustration that you study.
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  So you know, it's definitely that you started from a young
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  age and realized I'm going to be an artist.
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  This is going to be you know my career in some shape or form.
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  But where was the point where you kind of realize like, okay
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  I'm going to try this because it's particularly interesting
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  that you said that you start doing this in 2007 because back
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  then, I mean we did have a suppose platforms that, you
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  know, would work you could do something with but like, not to
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  the same extent that you can now going viral.
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  Will was extremely difficult, it would be, I don't know.
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  We're very random stuff that all you've got a YouTube.
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  For example, I mean one of the biggest Clips in that era was
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  you know a kid buying another, his brother's finger.
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  It was thinking Charlie bit my finger.
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  That's really funny that you said that one face to me, that's
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  like the landscape has changed a lot.
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  And that now, it's more about, as you said before, delivering
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  content of value. I suppose it's in a way it's
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  become like, like, Netflix or HBO where people, you know,
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  subscribe to a particular Tickler person and they want
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  consistently high quality staff and they want that interaction,
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  you know, it's in the major difference between so YouTube
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  and HBO and Netflix and all those platforms is they go and
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  make their programs, they release it and then everyone
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  says what they think. And then, you know, in the
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  interim period. Maybe they'll take that
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  information and use it to make a better follow-up season, maybe
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  not whatever. But with YouTube is constant,
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  kind of interaction a constant situation where people are
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  Giving you feedback, good or bad and that shaping what you do?
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  So like bring it back. Like how did you actually get
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  into this? How did this become something?
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  I suppose, I want to take it back to the moment that you were
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  like, okay, let's let's try something.
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  What we doing it? Yeah, so I feel like for me
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  there was there was more than one concrete moment for for me,
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  I started with Etch-a-Sketch. When I was around four I'd
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  always been tinkering with it. I inadvertently taught myself
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  how to do thing I wanted on an Etch-a-Sketch without realizing
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  that other kids word obsessed with it.
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  Like I was and I didn't realize that it was something other
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  people couldn't do until I brought one to school in eighth
• 19:11
  grade. And that was, I was around age
• 19:13
  12, by that point. So I'd already been already
• 19:16
  clocked in eight years of time playing with this toy and that's
• 19:21
  when I realized. Whoa, that's gives me a
• 19:24
  disproportionate amount of attention.
• 19:26
  This is pretty cool. I'm into this.
• 19:29
  And I was already like, you know, you I saw that.
• 19:32
  I have a BFA. In illustration, I draw I paint.
• 19:35
  I work digitally. I dip my hands in a lot of
• 19:39
  different artistic media. So when I started focusing more
• 19:43
  on edge, a sketch, I moved on to high school and I was able to
• 19:47
  convince my teacher to let me do assignments.
• 19:49
  And my art class is on Etch-a-Sketch and I was sharing
• 19:52
  those. I started sharing them online
• 19:54
  around 2007 and I you're right. The barometer for like virality
• 20:01
  was just such a Different thing back then and I definitely
• 20:05
  didn't experience anything like remotely compared to what you
• 20:11
  can do now because there just weren't as many resources
• 20:13
  available. I remember the first time I
• 20:16
  freaked out at something happening online so this is a
• 20:20
  this is a weird aside so I'm a big fan of the one-hit.
• 20:23
  Wonder musician, Thomas Dolby, I'm like obsessed with Thomas
• 20:27
  Dolby, he he did the one-hit wonder song, She Blinded Me With
• 20:30
  Science And anyways, so I did an Etch-a-Sketch of Thomas Dolby
• 20:36
  and I shared it to his like fan, email account or whatever.
• 20:41
  And I got a response and I freaked out.
• 20:44
  I remember I was in like the computer lab and 10th grade.
• 20:47
  Nobody else in my class even knew who this guy was.
• 20:50
  It didn't matter to me, I was like squealing with girlishly
• 20:53
  and I realized, oh my gosh, I have the power to connect with
• 20:56
  people. Through this strange, little
• 20:58
  medium, I can jump past all of these.
• 21:02
  Barriers that most people will never be able to swim out, you
• 21:05
  know. And I realize there's a lot of
• 21:07
  power in this toy but I was still planning to go to school
• 21:14
  like Beyond High School. I was planning to go to school
• 21:17
  for mathematics. Like I've always been really
• 21:19
  into math. So there was a very specific
• 21:22
  moment, one day in my math class and my senior year where I was
• 21:26
  listening to the lecture and doing the math or whatever and I
• 21:29
  looked down and I was Justly, doodling, on the margin of my
• 21:33
  notebook. And I looked out and it's like a
• 21:36
  light bulb went off. I realized this is what I want
• 21:39
  to be doing. I want to be drawing.
• 21:40
  This is what I'm doing, subconsciously while listening
• 21:42
  to the math. Like, I like math.
• 21:45
  I enjoy math, I'm proficient at math, but I love art and I knew
• 21:50
  it was a risk. I knew it was probability.
• 21:54
  Speaking of probably less, lucrative career path, it was
• 21:59
  going to be trickier a lot more competitive.
• 22:03
  But I decided in that moment that I was going to pull out of
• 22:07
  enrollment at the school that I was already committed to and
• 22:11
  switch gears and go to art school instead.
• 22:14
  So yes. That was my moment.
• 22:17
  Let's go. No, that's cool.
• 22:18
  I mean, it's, I've had this similar sort of experience, I
• 22:22
  suppose, although mine was more like full circle.
• 22:25
  So it's like, I spent a long time doing music and creative
• 22:29
  stuff, and then I stopped. And I was like, who am I?
• 22:32
  And I did marketing and all that stuff and then sort of got
• 22:36
  disillusioned and then started doing, I think acting again or
• 22:40
  for the first time. And I was like, ooh this is like
• 22:43
  all the other things I've done. Maybe I should do this.
• 22:45
  Maybe I should finally do that YouTube that I always talked
• 22:48
  about doing and then it's like as you once you have that moment
• 22:52
  and you start chasing it, things are happening.
• 22:56
  And one thing I just want to comment on before we move on, as
• 22:59
  well as like, I think that your bowl Goodness, you know with
• 23:03
  regards to that email in that family account is a very good
• 23:07
  example of like what creators should be doing.
• 23:08
  Like it's not just about the content, it's about, you know,
• 23:11
  being bold, like a lot of the people I've reached out to you
• 23:14
  yourself included, like a lot of the time when I'm doing that,
• 23:17
  I'm thinking that look my reply, who am I kidding?
• 23:20
  They say, if you don't try, you'll never know and he was on
• 23:24
  my show. So that that tells you
• 23:26
  everything you need to know about the bold and just trying,
• 23:30
  absolutely. And thank you for reaching out.
• 23:32
  Honored, I really do believe that you have to knock on that
• 23:35
  door and I'm still learning that lesson myself all the time.
• 23:38
  I used to this happen to me a lot when I lived in Chicago and
• 23:42
  I live in Maryland now. But for 11 years I lived in
• 23:44
  Chicago. That's why I went to art school
• 23:47
  and that's kind of where I began my career.
• 23:49
  So why were you originally from then?
• 23:51
  So you did you move to Chicago and then back or like, where did
• 23:54
  you come from? So I originally came from
• 23:57
  Michigan, which is very close to Chicago from and then So that's
• 24:02
  where I was born and raised and then I moved to Chicago, to go
• 24:05
  to art school and then at the beginning of this year, I moved
• 24:08
  to Maryland. Long story short, I was in a
• 24:11
  long-distance relationship and my boyfriend and I bridge the
• 24:13
  gap. He got a job out here.
• 24:14
  So oh cool. Cool.
• 24:17
  So that's what brought me to the east coast.
• 24:18
  I haven't seen any of it yet because of pandemic.
• 24:21
  So, I'm in this weird limbo state right now.
• 24:24
  I'm basically, we only go to the grocery store.
• 24:27
  That's about it, dude. I mean the exact same
• 24:30
  experience, right? Yeah.
• 24:32
  Moved to this area of England called Manchester in February of
• 24:36
  last year. And this was just before the
• 24:39
  pandemic. So, I went out like twice and
• 24:43
  Manchester is very well known for its music and party life and
• 24:46
  stuff, right? We're not twice everything
• 24:49
  happened. I mean, you know, I get to see
• 24:52
  the city when I do like volunteering and stuff, but
• 24:54
  mostly it's just driving around and doing delation donation
• 24:58
  stuff, but I don't really see that the Heart of the City as
• 25:00
  far as that the party atmosphere.
• 25:01
  All this stuff. It's because I'm sitting there
• 25:03
  like I've been here for a year and I feel like I barely know
• 25:07
  this place. Yeah, yeah I feel like I'm I'm
• 25:12
  pretty bummed about when I left Chicago because I knew I was
• 25:17
  probably going to be moving by 2021 at some point.
• 25:21
  So I was looking forward to saying goodbye to everybody but
• 25:24
  when everything shut down. So for me what's helped me is
• 25:28
  knowing that once this is over I'm going to be able to fly back
• 25:31
  and kind of Tackle that bucket list.
• 25:33
  See all those people and yeah, yeah.
• 25:36
  But boy, I'm bummed. I feel robbed of my could buy in
• 25:38
  a lot of ways and what's going to be really sad is when I come
• 25:42
  back, I'm going to see everything that shut down
• 25:45
  everything that I once you know took for granted and and didn't
• 25:48
  realize what's going to be hit so hard.
• 25:51
  So I do I'll think about that when I get there.
• 25:54
  But but if anything I am really excited to eventually see this
• 25:59
  area. I live really close to
• 26:00
  Washington DC which I vote. I never visited.
• 26:03
  And yeah, yeah, I don't even remember why I went on that
• 26:07
  tangent. But yeah, so I lived, oh, I
• 26:09
  lived in Chicago and I found because I went to art school and
• 26:15
  I had a lot of friends who were in school with me, it's been
• 26:18
  really interesting to watch my former classmates, take on their
• 26:22
  own artistic careers, and I was seeing this friend going into
• 26:26
  this gallery. And this friend painting this
• 26:27
  mural, and they're doing all these wonderful things.
• 26:30
  And every now, and then, I think to myself, Like what, how did I
• 26:33
  get this opportunity? How did this happen?
• 26:35
  And one day, there was this really cool gallery show and it
• 26:38
  was based on Pokemon are for like a local Chicago artists and
• 26:43
  a few of my friends got in. And I didn't even hear about it
• 26:46
  until it was like already happening and I'm like, man, I'm
• 26:48
  like I know I'm perfect for this.
• 26:50
  Like I love Pokemon, I live in Chicago and you know, for a
• 26:54
  moment you know, I would still win this frustration like ah,
• 26:58
  man, like how could I not have been a part of this?
• 27:01
  And I Finally realized, I need to just message the gallery
• 27:04
  owner and like, you know, open a dialogue, you know, find out the
• 27:09
  proper channels to do. So I don't want to be rude,
• 27:11
  especially when it comes to the protocol for working with
• 27:14
  galleries, but but I was like, well, I need to knock on that
• 27:17
  door. And of course, I opened this
• 27:20
  dialogue talk to this person and they were like, you know, if we
• 27:24
  would have known about you, you absolutely would have been a
• 27:26
  part of it. It's like, I'll see you.
• 27:27
  I just need to ask. I just need to like because the
• 27:31
  worst thing they could Is no, and if you don't ask that, it's
• 27:33
  already know. So yeah, yeah, I'm still
• 27:36
  learning that I'm still trying to make my own opportunities and
• 27:40
  that's where a lot of like, organic marketing comes from.
• 27:43
  I like to say that every post I make online is like a mini
• 27:46
  advertisement. And yes, yeah, and it doesn't.
• 27:51
  And it doesn't have to come across a sales and it doesn't
• 27:53
  have to be, you know, by now, big sale.
• 27:57
  It just needs to be something entertaining.
• 28:01
  Being something that is true to who you are.
• 28:04
  So you you need to be mindful of what you share online.
• 28:11
  There's a there's another artist that I thought put it so
• 28:14
  wonderfully. Her name is Jen.
• 28:15
  Bartels. She's a pretty big comic book
• 28:17
  artist and she wants made this thread on Twitter about how
• 28:21
  there's like a there's this like bank account that every content
• 28:26
  creator has and when you post a piece of like entertaining
• 28:30
  content or That you worked hard on or some kind of creative
• 28:34
  Endeavor, you're depositing into that bank account and maybe you
• 28:39
  have a bad day and you want to like, vent about it and you got
• 28:43
  to be careful about doing that kind of thing.
• 28:45
  But like, when you post something, that might be
• 28:46
  conceived as some degree of negative or something, where
• 28:49
  you're asking, something of your followers, your withdrawing from
• 28:52
  that bank account. And so the idea is, you want to
• 28:55
  be making more deposits. Them withdrawals.
• 28:58
  And I think we all know those people on Facebook.
• 29:01
  And that just it's like every day is the worst day of their
• 29:04
  life, right? You know.
• 29:07
  They're like all they talk about is like my car broke down and
• 29:11
  then my friend just lost your job and I'm sick, I have a cold
• 29:15
  and it's like, all they're doing is taking withdrawals from an
• 29:18
  empty bank account, and it's like a drag right?
• 29:21
  And it's like nobody likes to see their favorite artists.
• 29:24
  Complain about, you know, nobody's watching my videos or
• 29:28
  the algorithms of screwed me like you do every now and then.
• 29:31
  I love to be frustrated about a thing or two, but you got to be
• 29:34
  really mindful of it because people are paying attention and
• 29:37
  they get turned off when they hear other people like being
• 29:40
  negative or asking too much of their followers.
• 29:43
  Like so it's like you got to be making those deposits.
• 29:45
  If you want to invest in your relationship with your audience,
• 29:48
  you need to be providing some kind of content of value.
• 29:53
  Instead of you know every posted a row.
• 29:55
  It can't just be like support my patreon support my patreon or
• 30:00
  you know it's like you got it, you got To make sure like, well,
• 30:02
  why it, why should they support your patreon?
• 30:04
  Make sure that you're making things them that make them
• 30:06
  interested in the first place, you know.
• 30:08
  So that's, that's, that's what I've been trying to ascribe by,
• 30:11
  with my things. I think it's totally appropriate
• 30:13
  to to ask of your audience, but I wouldn't, I wouldn't
• 30:18
  personally want to do it. I feel like there's, there's a
• 30:22
  limit. There's a, there's moderation.
• 30:24
  You got to, you got to make sure to not exhaust your audience.
• 30:28
  Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I think, I think that's a really
• 30:31
  Great where you put it to be honest.
• 30:33
  I've never really heard it put that way.
• 30:35
  But yeah, it's true. Yeah I'm guilty of it.
• 30:38
  I've done it in the past when I would get frustrated because you
• 30:41
  know maybe no one's turned up at the live stream and or know what
• 30:45
  you know no one's no one's comments video, no one's watch.
• 30:47
  And it's like a lot of the time you know, I'm seeing this more
• 30:52
  and more as well as YouTube very slowly begins to recommend
• 30:57
  stuff. Very, very slowly.
• 31:00
  Yeah. But yeah, you're right.
• 31:04
  I mean it's like Your stuff gets picked up and people start
• 31:09
  watching and, you know, there's two things.
• 31:10
  There's two aspects to this one. As you say, being positive,
• 31:14
  making sure just to not be - not to continuously moan about
• 31:17
  things, you know, it's once in a blue moon, it's alright to be
• 31:20
  like, I wish it would have done better but like, you know, just
• 31:23
  keep it to a minimum and also this idea of like, creating like
• 31:27
  what I term is, like, Evergreen content.
• 31:30
  I learned this term from my, when I was working for some
• 31:33
  marketing company. One time and I was just hooked
• 31:38
  on this idea. Yeah.
• 31:38
  Because if you post stuff that specific to a very particular
• 31:42
  point in time, you one could make the argument.
• 31:45
  Okay, well, you know, maybe people will look back for
• 31:48
  reference and it'd be interesting, but a lot of the
• 31:50
  time, if it is like very specific to that particular day,
• 31:53
  moment whatever people won't really bother to watch it.
• 31:56
  Like, in my previous episode, I have a guest on Whose big Sonic,
• 32:00
  the Hedgehog, YouTube, as a shout-out to Konami Hatcher.
• 32:03
  But we were talking about this and he said that.
• 32:07
  You know, like he has videos, for example, from a two years
• 32:10
  ago, which were like, I don't know, like, leak games spoilers
• 32:14
  for that particular year. And, you know, those videos will
• 32:18
  never get any views ever again now, because there's no reason
• 32:22
  to watch them. We all know what the things
• 32:24
  were, and they're just speculation.
• 32:27
  So, they were great at the time, but not anymore.
• 32:29
  Whereas, if you take content like yours Evergreen content, it
• 32:32
  will always pick up views. No matter if it's 5 years from
• 32:35
  now, 10 years from now 20, Years from now it'll always have that
• 32:38
  kind of value in it and I think your analogy of this bank
• 32:42
  account concept is is very true. Like I always try to do that
• 32:45
  with everything I do now, try to make sure that it has this kind
• 32:48
  of this re replayability, I guess this concept of just being
• 32:53
  able to always come back to it and watch it and and also I
• 32:56
  think like enjoy it for yourself as well.
• 32:58
  Like I know that sounds really weird to say but if you're a
• 33:01
  Creator like you should be able to enjoy your own content and be
• 33:05
  like yeah I'm proud of Of this, this is good and yeah, you know,
• 33:09
  and it I think I I feel like I have to remind myself of that to
• 33:14
  like, is this something that I actually really want to make her
• 33:16
  a, by just following a trend. And I find that here's a really
• 33:19
  good example when I really liked what you said about Evergreen
• 33:24
  content because I find that as an Etch-a-Sketch artist, I'm
• 33:28
  often expected to hop on the the newest meme.
• 33:33
  Like, I'll post a video of people will say, ah, You need to
• 33:36
  do this like this just came out. You got to hop on this and it's
• 33:40
  very rare for me to actually follow through with that because
• 33:43
  I understand, it's such a quick burning candle.
• 33:46
  Like oftentimes, here's a good example.
• 33:48
  There is the the Bernie Sanders Tony.
• 33:52
  I just recently have it. We've all forgotten about it,
• 33:54
  completely, right? Like, I, you know, it's like it
• 33:58
  immediately got eclipsed by something else.
• 34:00
  Yeah. And I have never been asked so
• 34:03
  much from my follower base to create a meme.
• 34:05
  And I I decided to K by said, if I don't do it today, I'm it's
• 34:09
  going to be too late so I did it.
• 34:12
  And it did phenomenally like one or two social media channels,
• 34:16
  but then after that you're right, there's no re-watch
• 34:19
  ability to it. Nobody cares about that many.
• 34:21
  Many more and it's like, you know, what was that for?
• 34:25
  What did it really gave me? Maybe I got me some new
• 34:27
  followers who stuck around and are now going to see my other
• 34:29
  content. That's cool.
• 34:31
  But I used to be a huge Trend Chaser.
• 34:34
  I use like new TV show. Announce got to make an art
• 34:37
  piece about it right now. Like maybe I'm not even fully
• 34:41
  invested in the show or whatever but like oh it's going to be
• 34:43
  popular new season Game of Thrones like it's but it's an
• 34:48
  exhausting way to go about it and then you develop an audience
• 34:52
  that only expects you to follow the trends and they start to,
• 34:58
  you know, if you're not going to keep that up, like you either,
• 35:01
  you either need to go all in on that concept.
• 35:04
  You just, you just can't like it.
• 35:06
  It's too much for me, so nowadays, I do try to go and do
• 35:10
  more of what I love. Like, for me, the classic
• 35:13
  Evergreen content. Memes are SpongeBob memes.
• 35:16
  Those will never die in my eyes. Those are pure gold.
• 35:20
  They've got around for two decades.
• 35:22
  Like the age like fine wine, and I love SpongeBob Beams.
• 35:26
  I have an oh, gee, SpongeBob Watcher.
• 35:28
  So I feel like it's authentic to me to create SpongeBob memes.
• 35:32
  I'm always concerned about making sure to create content
• 35:35
  that doesn't feel In authentic like like I'm I hate drawing
• 35:40
  things and making videos of things that I don't know much
• 35:43
  about. Like I don't want to draw.
• 35:46
  You know, if there's a Netflix show that just came out.
• 35:49
  I don't want to draw the character from the show if I
• 35:51
  haven't seen the show. Yeah yeah of course because I
• 35:55
  want to be able to have a dialogue in the comments with
• 35:57
  people like they're like II can't believe that character
• 35:59
  died or whatever and I'd be like yeah they sucked or whatever you
• 36:02
  don't think I want to be able to actually engage on Some, some
• 36:06
  kind of extra level than just like, you know, here's the meme
• 36:10
  of the week. Here you go.
• 36:12
  I got it. I got to say, people that do
• 36:13
  that as well. I respect the grind, but the
• 36:17
  same time. It's, it's like I couldn't do
• 36:20
  that myself. Like, I think it's exhaustive.
• 36:23
  You know, what will it look like, YouTubers?
• 36:25
  Like, I don't like drama alert. Keemstar comes to mind.
• 36:30
  Like, he chooses to sort of like, follow everything that's
• 36:33
  going on in the platform and kind of, like, round up and do.
• 36:36
  Look a new style show based on that, right?
• 36:38
  And sometimes I wonder like this, you never get just kind of
• 36:41
  like exhausted and thing like I just I just don't want to do
• 36:44
  this or I can't be bothered like because a lot happens like you
• 36:47
  said in the space of that the Bernie thing took like maybe it
• 36:51
  was big for a week and then the next thing and like sometimes
• 36:53
  it's even shorter than that. Sometimes I mean will die and
• 36:56
  just one day and it's like I don't know like I feel like if
• 37:00
  you've got the energy for it and you want to do it like Fairplay
• 37:04
  go for it. But I think a lot of us know, I
• 37:06
  just don't have that energy and and yeah, also not actually, I
• 37:10
  don't have that energy anymore. Maybe I used to but now it's
• 37:14
  like I'm trying to run a business and I really want to
• 37:18
  value my personal time to do things that I actually really
• 37:21
  care about sometimes. I do care about whatever the
• 37:24
  trend is like, if it's something that like the stars align,
• 37:27
  alright, if I feel justified in doing it, I'll do it.
• 37:29
  But I'm I think I'm done with the days of chasing every
• 37:34
  bandwagon. Like it's I Pick bandwagons one
• 37:38
  thing I want to add to this as well as just like a closing
• 37:41
  point. Is that like I feel like
• 37:43
  whenever you're looking at a trend or certainly we're not
• 37:45
  whenever I'm looking at a trend like Tick, Tick Tock, he's
• 37:48
  really good example. So there's this Eminem song that
• 37:50
  was picked up from like like late 2000s right now and it's a
• 37:54
  bit of a sort of, I guess you could say a me want to take it
• 37:57
  out. Can you really say memes on
• 37:58
  ticked? I don't know.
• 37:59
  I'm I feel like old. Yeah.
• 38:02
  Okay yeah, is it going? But it's and it's basically a
• 38:05
  pretty Because the song is like like hilariously over the top
• 38:10
  defensive and just crazy, right? But what the content creators
• 38:14
  have done is like really creative.
• 38:16
  They've basically taken this like I guess like 20 or 30
• 38:19
  second part of it and now you're just seeing like loads and loads
• 38:22
  and loads of videos I did one myself as well because it's
• 38:25
  like, you know, when I look at it I'm like can I do something
• 38:29
  with this that I would like that?
• 38:31
  I think is kind of creative that fits with what I'm doing and if
• 38:35
  I can't think of Thing I just won't do it and I think that's a
• 38:38
  better way to go about it. It's like, you know, if you feel
• 38:41
  like you can work with it and make it work for you and be
• 38:44
  something that you're proud of great.
• 38:46
  If you're like you said before, just trying to chase that Trend.
• 38:49
  I think your audience can kind of pick up on that as well, you
• 38:52
  know? Yeah.
• 38:53
  And I've also found even through Tick-Tock that there's value in
• 38:57
  taking an old Trend that you love and bringing a little new
• 39:01
  life into this. Absolutely like some Trends,
• 39:05
  some beans. Herbs are just Classics at this
• 39:08
  point, like certain vines that we still quote all the time, the
• 39:12
  vice was gone forever. Right?
• 39:14
  And so sometimes like you can find that there's like a sound
• 39:17
  on Tick Tock and nobody's used it in months or whatever.
• 39:20
  But like I did. Okay, there's this one meme.
• 39:23
  Speaking of Sonic, it's based on the Sonic fandom and it's this
• 39:26
  little kid who's freaking out and he goes like your fantasies
• 39:30
  can never be realized and like, he's just like way too
• 39:34
  passionate about Sonic, right? It's wonderful.
• 39:38
  So that like sound from the, you know, from this kid, you know,
• 39:41
  freak it out and having this diatribe as an 11 year old kid.
• 39:46
  That's, you know, that had a very big moment of virality.
• 39:50
  And that was like, a long time ago and internet time like over
• 39:54
  a year ago or something. And I mean, that might as well
• 39:58
  be like a decade ago. Asos true.
• 40:01
  It's so true. Internet time does not move like
• 40:03
  actual time. It's not not at all.
• 40:06
  Like when you think of my space, that feels like the Stone Age
• 40:09
  and and and I just remember, you know, I decided like I love that
• 40:13
  sound. I think it'd be so funny to do
• 40:15
  it, edges sketch video of it. And I did, I just like,
• 40:18
  recreated the video like word for word on edges catch and the
• 40:23
  comments are fantastic. It's a bunch of people who, who
• 40:27
  look back nostalgically on the meme, which is hilarious to me,
• 40:30
  because they're looking back installed really, like, a year
• 40:32
  ago, right? And they're just freaking out
• 40:35
  because there Oh my gosh, like, like I just built street cred
• 40:40
  with a bunch of people because I threw like did this throwback me
• 40:44
  and that like, oh yeah, this person knows her memes.
• 40:47
  You know, you know, I'm a beam historian like not that people
• 40:54
  are ever doubting my, like my degree in meteorology or
• 40:58
  anything but like, you know, I've been around the block on
• 41:02
  the internet and that is a very good asset to have right now.
• 41:06
  I can actually study that University, you know, meanwhile
• 41:10
  degree, I seriously should have gone for.
• 41:13
  Yeah, could you possibly do with the degree that come on the
• 41:22
  History Channel when they talk about the history of the
• 41:24
  internet? The life and tight it was like
• 41:37
  something of us that show in England.
• 41:41
  It's like 20 questions or something.
• 41:43
  I don't know. Like, when we had this show in
• 41:45
  England, I'm going to be slaughtered for not remembering
• 41:47
  this, but basically it's like really weird.
• 41:49
  They two people sit in a room and it's like a blacked-out room
• 41:53
  and it's like, Mastermind, that's the name of the show
• 41:55
  Master bouquet? And basically, they bring like
• 41:59
  their own topics, that they know like a lot about, right?
• 42:02
  And then they get asked that general questions, okay?
• 42:04
  And it's just, they just really weird as Like interrogation or
• 42:08
  something. It's like, but I don't know,
• 42:09
  it's popular in the UK. It's kind of a good show and
• 42:13
  like, sometimes people genuinely would come with like really
• 42:16
  ridiculous things. Like I don't know, coronation
• 42:20
  steep storylines for the last 10 years and they'll just be
• 42:24
  experts on that and it's I guess that's a use for it, I guess.
• 42:30
  Yeah yeah I mean II guess I would consider myself an
• 42:34
  Etch-a-Sketch ologist, right? Yeah, and it's worked out for me
• 42:38
  since that's the path. I decided to forge but but yeah,
• 42:42
  definitely for most people a degree that just got geology
• 42:46
  probably would have Prophet that much speaking of degrees.
• 42:52
  Yeah, that we mentioned before you did this BFA in illustration
• 42:54
  I've got two questions with regards to this.
• 42:57
  Like firstly one would you say it was particularly useful for
• 43:02
  you and your art career and just everything that you do in terms
• 43:06
  of like what it taught you what it gave to you.
• 43:08
  And secondly would you recommend that people follow this?
• 43:11
  This route to like is it better to pursue illustration with it
• 43:16
  without it and the reason I ask is because like, for instance,
• 43:18
  in my field marketing, you know, I Degree.
• 43:23
  And then, I started working in the field, and then I found that
• 43:26
  I had to basically just learn from scratch, like, everything I
• 43:28
  learned at Uni didn't apply at all.
• 43:30
  Now, obviously, our it's different, well, actually, no,
• 43:33
  it's the same in the context of that you go there to get a skill
• 43:37
  to use. Yeah.
• 43:38
  And I suppose a job or work place.
• 43:40
  Right. But then if you don't actually
• 43:42
  receive that then it's like okay you got to start from scratch.
• 43:46
  And essentially, relearn against all the degree really does is
• 43:48
  just give you a foot in the door for like interviews.
• 43:51
  So like for you You did that actually was it useful?
• 43:54
  Would you recommend it to other people, man?
• 43:57
  That's, that's a really good question.
• 43:58
  Honestly, I could spend the next hour just on this question
• 44:01
  alone. So for me, personally, I don't
• 44:05
  regret the degree that I got. But there's a, there's a few
• 44:08
  asterisks that I should should really a specify.
• 44:11
  So I think that art school isn't a weird place right now,
• 44:15
  especially in the u.s., especially with how expensive
• 44:18
  education is in the US. I gosh, it really depends on
• 44:25
  your financial situation before going into art school.
• 44:27
  I'll be all cards on the table. The only reason why I was even
• 44:31
  able to afford art school is because I got an inheritance.
• 44:34
  My father passed away when I was a kid and I was allowed to do
• 44:37
  whatever I wanted with that money.
• 44:39
  I put all that money toward pursuing, my dream of being an
• 44:43
  artist and I don't think it was a bad investment for me, but I
• 44:48
  had that money to use now, the money didn't cover.
• 44:51
  All of college. I was And actually significant
• 44:54
  debt after graduation, and that's where I really kind of
• 44:58
  discourage people from immediately.
• 45:00
  Considering that as the default option, the thing about an
• 45:04
  illustration degree specifically is that there's no job that
• 45:08
  requires an illustration degree. You don't go to school, to get
• 45:11
  the sheet of paper. You go to the school to spend
• 45:15
  four years developing skills as an artist, the the sheet of
• 45:18
  paper is kind of an incidental. Ettore you did it.
• 45:23
  You spent four years learning. I've never had to present my
• 45:26
  degree. Now I do believe it, helped me
• 45:29
  get my first job, but my first job, I honestly feel like I
• 45:36
  learned potentially an equal amount.
• 45:38
  If not even more than I learned in art school, I learned a lot
• 45:41
  of valuable skills and art school.
• 45:43
  I learned how to be a better draftsman.
• 45:45
  I learned a lot about how to communicate a concept to a
• 45:49
  client which has always been of major used to me would work With
• 45:52
  my clients, we learned, you know, a protocol and how to have
• 45:56
  these dialogues but there's a lot of things that our school
• 45:59
  didn't cover like the World Wide Web.
• 46:02
  You know, it was a very old school kind of school and that
• 46:06
  it didn't really the The Faculty was older.
• 46:10
  They never had to depend on the internet to find work and it was
• 46:13
  a different universe. So we're learning these
• 46:17
  techniques and how to draw better, which are fantastic, but
• 46:21
  we're not learning. Learn how to find clients.
• 46:23
  And this is a problem that is almost across the board with art
• 46:28
  schools on top of that. You've got these misleading
• 46:31
  numbers that they quote, you saying 96 percent job placement
• 46:35
  rating. Well, they don't specify what
• 46:37
  that means. Like, what kind of job are you
• 46:38
  talking about a bagger at a grocery store?
• 46:40
  Are you talking about people who are working in the creative
• 46:44
  field doing what they want? Like what?
• 46:46
  So I definitely I think I lucked out in a lot of ways.
• 46:52
  And it's, it's more than luck, of course I but I think that the
• 46:57
  reason why I have any degree of success as an artist today is
• 47:01
  partially attributed to my education, but also attributed
• 47:05
  to the other skills that I learned outside of the classroom
• 47:09
  skills, like how to write a professional email, how to come
• 47:15
  across as a friendly person and be jovial and network.
• 47:20
  And how to Mark it how to put together, you know, a brochures
• 47:26
  and how to use different programs that may not have been
• 47:31
  taught much in college, like things like that.
• 47:33
  There's a lot of soft skills that I feel like art school.
• 47:36
  Can't teach you. I discourage people who have the
• 47:39
  line of thought that if I go to art school that I will get a job
• 47:43
  in art, it's, it's not that easy, it's not that easy.
• 47:47
  And unfortunately, most of my colleagues that I went to school
• 47:52
  with I have had a lot of struggles in myself included.
• 47:55
  It was really hard after I graduated, I definitely don't
• 47:59
  want to throw my specific School under the bus.
• 48:02
  I really think they kind of they did what they could with what
• 48:06
  they had but I think that the educational system for how much
• 48:10
  it costs really needs to do more for its students, and sometimes
• 48:17
  especially in art school. The best thing you could do for
• 48:19
  some of these students is Tell them to quit.
• 48:23
  Like some of them, it's so sad to say.
• 48:26
  But some people you could just tell do not have a career in
• 48:29
  art. They don't, they won't even turn
• 48:32
  their assignments in on time. If they can't turn their
• 48:34
  assignments in on time, how they going to meet a deadline for a
• 48:37
  client and some people change, some people mature, but if
• 48:42
  people just don't have the skills, I almost wish that like
• 48:45
  faculty would speak up and tell them, listen, you're spending
• 48:49
  twenty thousand dollars a year to go to this facility.
• 48:52
  Buddy. And I think that maybe you
• 48:54
  should re-evaluate your skill set.
• 48:56
  It's almost the nicer thing to do.
• 49:00
  So I think everybody, who's considering a career at Art
• 49:03
  needs to, really be honest with themselves not necessarily about
• 49:06
  their current skill set but how much are you willing to go into
• 49:11
  this? How how much is all in for you?
• 49:14
  Do you expect an art career to fall into your lap because it's
• 49:17
  not going to even if you go viral virality, just goes like
• 49:21
  that. That it it doesn't virality is
• 49:25
  not sustainable, it's not a career.
• 49:28
  And as a freelancer, I can tell, you know, from personal
• 49:31
  experience, I need to know just as much about finances as I do
• 49:36
  about making art and being a good artist, does not make you a
• 49:40
  successful artist. Yeah, I agree with you.
• 49:43
  I think the business aspect is probably even more important
• 49:47
  than the, the actual art skills. I mean, I'll just try I'll just
• 49:52
  I'm on the, in on this, just to kind of put a bow on it.
• 49:54
  But like, with my degree exactly the same thing, you know, all of
• 50:00
  the stuff. I mean, In fairness it was a
• 50:03
  research base University. So, this is the thing that
• 50:06
  people don't talk about a lot. When you go to a university, pay
• 50:09
  attention to what their goals are as a university or college.
• 50:14
  So, what I mean by that is, if you go to a research base one,
• 50:17
  which a lot of them are there trying to get you down that
• 50:20
  Academia crew. Like, University is no longer,
• 50:24
  you know, completely about an education, it's a business.
• 50:27
  That's why the fees keep going up.
• 50:30
  And like, one of the things I noticed right off the bat when I
• 50:33
  join University was, okay? So I'm paying 9 Grand per term.
• 50:37
  This is the UK, right? Why do I have to pay?
• 50:41
  You know, 150 per term for like textbooks, and why am I paying
• 50:45
  extra for this stuff? And then, I started realizing
• 50:48
  like, oh, I don't even need this stuff like to do the degree.
• 50:52
  And I can get loads of resources online for free and, yeah, and I
• 50:55
  was like, okay, so and then I realized, okay, a lot of the
• 50:59
  lecturers that are teaching me are selling me their books, they
• 51:03
  wrote those books for their course to get you to pay, it's a
• 51:07
  businessman. See it for what it is and it's I
• 51:10
  guarantee in a lot of different courses, of course, many
• 51:12
  different fields. It's the same thing.
• 51:14
  And this is the thing, like, what you said about that, it
• 51:16
  doesn't really necessarily set you up for having a career.
• 51:19
  I completely agree with that. Like, all the stuff I learned at
• 51:22
  Diversity was theory-based. I'd mostly learned a lot of it
• 51:25
  at business school but all the marketing stuff.
• 51:29
  I mean it was it was mostly just like academic Theory and stuff.
• 51:33
  Like I think only one module I did or maybe two or three of
• 51:38
  them actually applied to real life and even those were
• 51:42
  psychology based, it was more to do with like you know, customer
• 51:47
  psychology consumer psychology and stuff.
• 51:49
  It was interesting. But when I actually started
• 51:51
  working King in the field. Like I started from scratch my
• 51:54
  degree, you didn't really mean anything and I feel like this is
• 51:59
  an important fact as well. The longer you go in your
• 52:01
  career, whatever your career is the more that like things from
• 52:04
  the past get cancelled out. So now three years close to four
• 52:08
  years down the line with my marketing field, it's rare that
• 52:13
  anyone asks me about my degree, like, I'm actually pretty
• 52:16
  surprised. I mean it's a graduate in 2017,
• 52:19
  so I guess it's not like that long ago but like I feel Like,
• 52:22
  the most recent things that you did are what people care about
• 52:26
  the most and particularly with business as well.
• 52:30
  Yeah, if let's, let's, yeah, let's talk about the freelance
• 52:32
  side of things. So, like, with your stuff, you
• 52:34
  know? Yeah, it's great.
• 52:35
  You're an artist, you do great stuff.
• 52:37
  But like, can you actually Market that were like, people
• 52:40
  are working with you, you know, you need to be good to work
• 52:43
  with. You need to know how to do.
• 52:45
  You need to be everything. If you're a Creator, you got to
• 52:47
  be a marketer, an Advertiser social media manager.
• 52:52
  Thinking design specialist copywriter, you name it.
• 52:55
  You got a bit like big crater is like, Jack of all trades and
• 53:02
  they most certainly do not teach you these things at Uni.
• 53:04
  Like you I feel like a lot of this stuff.
• 53:06
  You learn yourself. So like, independent study, as
• 53:09
  you said, like, managing time management deadlines or this
• 53:12
  stuff, like that stuff, you learn by yourself.
• 53:15
  I suppose networking as opposed depends on your cause I think I
• 53:19
  did learn a little bit about that and my degree with mostly.
• 53:22
  It was just like there's people around you, start talking you
• 53:25
  start collaborating things happen, right?
• 53:27
  Being sociable like you said it just kind of happens if you just
• 53:30
  put yourself out there. Yeah.
• 53:33
  And unfortunately a lot of artists are not sociable and
• 53:37
  that's you know, it's okay if you work with who you are you
• 53:40
  can still be a successful artist and success means different
• 53:46
  things to everybody for me, success, me self-sustaining
• 53:51
  basically I'd like to be you know thriving more than
• 53:54
  surviving. So success goes in that category
• 53:57
  too. But yes, I think that you're
• 54:01
  totally right that universities and I don't even necessarily
• 54:04
  fault them too much for it. I just don't think that a lot of
• 54:09
  these skills are able to be taught in a classroom
• 54:12
  curriculum. You know, it's tough.
• 54:15
  So it's, you know, I love the school.
• 54:17
  I went to and there are a lot of things that I've gained that had
• 54:21
  nothing to do with the edge. Location, like my Social Circle
• 54:23
  in Chicago. I got plugged into a wonderful
• 54:26
  network of fellow classmates and professors, who have had varying
• 54:30
  degrees of success and might know people.
• 54:33
  Like I had an illustration teacher who connected me with
• 54:36
  his cousin, who owns a shop that I get my frames manufactured
• 54:40
  from. So there's all sorts of like,
• 54:42
  weird little benefits like that. It even just being able to drop
• 54:45
  a professor. A line I graduated in 2013 has
• 54:48
  been eight years, but I would to a pretty small school and they
• 54:52
  Me and they're so happy to do one-on-ones and you critiques.
• 54:56
  And, you know, chat with me about what's going on and give
• 54:59
  me further Direction. I know not every school is like
• 55:02
  that, but it's something I eat. I don't, I don't necessarily
• 55:07
  want to throw down the Goblins, say, art school bad, but with
• 55:11
  the internet today, there are so many resources available you can
• 55:15
  get one-on-one teaching from your favorite artist if you want
• 55:21
  for a Action of the cost of going to art school?
• 55:25
  I mean the person you idolize your favorite illustrator might
• 55:28
  be offering one-on-one courses for what a few hundred bucks,
• 55:32
  maybe like it's incredible. What kind of resources are
• 55:35
  available? So I always try to encourage
• 55:38
  people to consider those and a lot of those resources weren't
• 55:42
  available to me. Back in the day, a lot of them
• 55:46
  were, you know, 2009 was a very different time in the internet,
• 55:51
  but now You know, as 2021, you can find there are all sorts of
• 55:55
  websites just for, like, for example, I took two classes in
• 55:58
  web design, those classes cost me roughly, you know, 4500
• 56:03
  dollars per class. I could have learned those
• 56:06
  things by going on Khan Academy or, you know, like this through
• 56:12
  that website. Like, there are websites that
• 56:14
  for those kind of specific skills, where there are so many
• 56:18
  courses available as such a saturated Market, that you can
• 56:22
  And very awesome quality education for a fraction of the
• 56:26
  cost that it might cost you in a classroom environment with the
• 56:29
  classroom environment. You've got more accountability
• 56:32
  and there's value in that. You've got an instructor who's
• 56:35
  you know supposed to be an expert in the field who could
• 56:37
  help you. But like is it really worth four
• 56:40
  thousand five hundred dollars when you could be paying
• 56:42
  literally 20 dollars to read from the same textbook like so
• 56:49
  so yeah I don't I Want to completely knock the art school
• 56:53
  path. But from a financial standpoint
• 56:56
  there, I think there are better options out there.
• 56:59
  This is why I always ask my guests about, you know, their
• 57:01
  degrees. And if they thought there was
• 57:03
  much kind of worth in and I pretty much always get the same
• 57:08
  response from people, you know, even myself.
• 57:10
  You know, I don't look at me, don't look at my degree as I
• 57:12
  like a waste of time on the contrary but it's like I had
• 57:16
  that same realization. I look at like, how much I owe
• 57:19
  now and you know how I could have?
• 57:22
  Have easily have worked in the field without getting the
• 57:25
  degree. And you know I feel like
• 57:29
  especially if you're content creator or an artist.
• 57:30
  All you really need is these two major things.
• 57:33
  You need talent that you always work on continuously and
• 57:37
  business Acumen. Which sounds all you know, who
• 57:40
  that sounds really serious? It's really not, it's just how
• 57:42
  you Market yourself. How you brand yourself, are you
• 57:45
  professional? Like you said, do you meet
• 57:47
  deadlines? Do you reply back to people?
• 57:50
  Yeah, you're formally. And and often do you like
• 57:56
  things, like how you sell your stuff, you know, like how you
• 58:00
  price it, do you understand all yourself, you know, 0dd?
• 58:04
  Do you charge too much? Or, you know, it's just thinking
• 58:07
  with a business mind, which all of these things you can teach
• 58:10
  yourself online, hundred percent and same with the art stuff as
• 58:12
  well. Yeah, yeah.
• 58:14
  There is, there are so many Fantastic resources out there
• 58:17
  and because of the internet, there are so many people you
• 58:19
  could connect with that. Don't To live anywhere you.
• 58:22
  This is the perfect example, your the UK and we're talking
• 58:25
  right now. There I have to say, you know,
• 58:28
  this is a good. A good note on Twitter,
• 58:30
  specifically, Twitter is definitely like the place where
• 58:33
  I have the smallest following but I still use it because
• 58:37
  Twitter has been my favorite place to connect with people
• 58:40
  that I love. Like, I can just directly tweet
• 58:44
  a completely random person that I'm like, your stuff is great.
• 58:47
  Send and I have formed fantastic relationships with People just
• 58:52
  from doing that on Twitter. Like, you could, this is going
• 58:56
  to sound crazy, but there's this movie that I love is a very
• 58:59
  underrated animated film called robots came out like 2003.
• 59:04
  I was watching that movie one day and the credits rolled and I
• 59:07
  was just kind of like looking at the names of all the people and
• 59:09
  there's this guy, his name is Ryan Cs and I was like, that's
• 59:12
  an interesting name. I've never seen that specific
• 59:14
  name, so I go on Facebook. I type it, and there's only one
• 59:17
  Ryan CS in the world. Yeah.
• 59:19
  So I just friend requested him. And now we're friends.
• 59:22
  Like now we just talk to each other.
• 59:24
  Sometimes like I literally just like threw a dart at a cork
• 59:29
  board and I was like, I bet this person's cool.
• 59:31
  They worked on this movie. I love, like, it's so easy now
• 59:35
  to connect with people and you know, you're not always gonna
• 59:38
  like be able to connect with everyone.
• 59:40
  It's not like, I can say, I want to be friends with Britney
• 59:42
  Spears today, you know. But like you could find cool
• 59:46
  people. There are so many cool people
• 59:48
  online and you can collaborate with them.
• 59:51
  You can Support their content, you can like, tick-tocks, been
• 59:55
  fantastic for that. I just connected with the
• 59:57
  inventor of Bop It yesterday. Santa bop it.
• 1:00:01
  Yeah, he's got a tick tock. He found my stuff.
• 1:00:03
  I've been following him for a while, someone tagged him and my
• 1:00:06
  recent video. And now we follow each other and
• 1:00:08
  I'm going to go draw a bop it now.
• 1:00:10
  And now we're going to like now we know each other and it's all
• 1:00:13
  thanks to the magic of the internet.
• 1:00:15
  I love the internet, man. It's so great.
• 1:00:17
  It's so cool. Thank you for sharing honest
• 1:00:20
  day's. This is a I'm loving this.
• 1:00:23
  Right now, I want to focus on, you know, how you make your
• 1:00:26
  money and stuff now based on what you do.
• 1:00:29
  And, you know, with my business brain and stuff, I've already
• 1:00:31
  kind of like figured out how you do it but I want to just play
• 1:00:33
  dumb and let you kind of say in your own words.
• 1:00:36
  Now, on your website you're actually available to hire for
• 1:00:40
  events and projects as well as for paid commissions.
• 1:00:45
  So with that sort of process I presume that a lot of companies
• 1:00:50
  and individuals. Reach out to you and say, hey,
• 1:00:53
  we would like you to do to do this.
• 1:00:55
  And obviously, if it's a company, maybe there's more of a
• 1:00:59
  long-term deal there or some sort of thing that you have to
• 1:01:02
  work out. Like, what what's your kind of
• 1:01:04
  process I suppose for turning this, this this Talent of yours
• 1:01:08
  into a business. Sure.
• 1:01:10
  So specifically, when somebody reaches out to me via email,
• 1:01:15
  first, I have to figure out. Well, what's the scope of the
• 1:01:17
  project? What kind of work do they want
• 1:01:19
  me to do? Oftentimes one of my most
• 1:01:21
  Commonly commissioned things that people ask me to do is
• 1:01:28
  portraits on an Etch-a-Sketch. Just a permanent Etch-a-Sketch
• 1:01:31
  and that's that's a whole process and the 5 Second summary
• 1:01:34
  of that is I disassemble the Etch-a-Sketch.
• 1:01:36
  Remove the powder from the inside of the toy and then seal
• 1:01:40
  it all back up like a sandwich and the drawing on the screen
• 1:01:42
  remains. So that's basically how I make
• 1:01:44
  them permanent. It's very messy, it's very
• 1:01:47
  time-consuming, but that allows me to sell the original drawing.
• 1:01:51
  And then send it anywhere in the world.
• 1:01:54
  I can I've mailed my art all over the world at this point.
• 1:01:59
  So that's my number. One thing is people will ask me
• 1:02:02
  to create an original Etch-a-Sketch drawing of
• 1:02:04
  something that they're interested in.
• 1:02:05
  Having me. Do the more complicated projects
• 1:02:09
  come from the bigger companies. I've had the fortune of working
• 1:02:11
  with a lot of big companies like Disney cartoon network MTV.
• 1:02:17
  For some reason Callaway golf that one always confounds me.
• 1:02:21
  Hey, why not? There's yeah, yeah I mean hey if
• 1:02:24
  it's work its work and and that's where they have usually a
• 1:02:30
  decent idea of what they're interested in having me do.
• 1:02:33
  And then I usually step in and help to formulate that concept
• 1:02:39
  like they might say. So we're interested in maybe you
• 1:02:42
  doing a video and I said, okay well what you know what's this
• 1:02:45
  video for? Do you have an image in mind and
• 1:02:48
  then we start this dialogue? We go back and forth, I say
• 1:02:50
  well, okay, do you have a reference Do you like me to work
• 1:02:53
  with and then? Okay, which sighs?
• 1:02:54
  I just got to. Would you like, because there's
• 1:02:56
  like forming sizes. I work with, and that all helps
• 1:03:00
  to educate me. I like how much I would charge
• 1:03:03
  for different rates for the amount of time, it would take
• 1:03:06
  me. Well, what's your deadline and,
• 1:03:07
  you know, getting all these little pieces of the puzzle
• 1:03:10
  together to figure out what my quote is going to be?
• 1:03:13
  And once we have it all hashed out and figured out like what
• 1:03:19
  we're going to do then we can, you know, No they send me
• 1:03:22
  whatever, I need to get my work going and then I tell them.
• 1:03:27
  Okay you'll have it by this day. If they have a deadline then
• 1:03:29
  they provide that for me and then I just get to work and then
• 1:03:33
  I send them whatever they need by the date they want and it's a
• 1:03:37
  pretty it's a pretty simple process.
• 1:03:40
  It's just you know people communicating with one another
• 1:03:42
  like what do you want and and I figure out how to get that to
• 1:03:46
  them. Have you ever kind of like
• 1:03:49
  turned down projects based on the fact that it like doesn't
• 1:03:53
  fit with your brand or you know, maybe that company or that
• 1:03:58
  individual has like bad press? And you know that that would
• 1:04:00
  probably affect you. Like has that ever happened to
• 1:04:02
  you? I can't think of a specific
• 1:04:06
  person or company that might have reached out.
• 1:04:08
  That I was wary of, I definitely do turndown projects these days
• 1:04:13
  and in the beginning, a siphon to freelancing for around four
• 1:04:16
  and a half years now, In the beginning, I took everything I
• 1:04:20
  could even if I wasn't so sure about it but there are projects
• 1:04:23
  that I simply just don't want to do maybe because fair enough.
• 1:04:27
  Like, sometimes the subject matter just doesn't like like
• 1:04:31
  after example, like I have a, I have a friend who doesn't like
• 1:04:35
  to do portraits of people and I am not as fond of doing
• 1:04:39
  portraits of pets on at just sketch so we can kind of like
• 1:04:42
  work with one another like refer each other.
• 1:04:46
  There are times where Maybe I'm in my busy holiday season and I
• 1:04:50
  just can't get a project done in time.
• 1:04:52
  So I instead will offer to, you know, maybe I have a friend
• 1:04:57
  who's another Etch-a-Sketch artist and like I can throw them
• 1:05:00
  a bone, or I do what I can to try to get work for someone else
• 1:05:05
  when I'm presented with something that I don't want to
• 1:05:08
  do. But oftentimes the work that I
• 1:05:10
  turned on the most is the work that that is like there's no
• 1:05:14
  budget like that's for me. A non-negotiable.
• 1:05:17
  There are occasions where like if it's a volunteer opportunity
• 1:05:20
  I can find those myself. I usually don't take
• 1:05:24
  solicitations for volunteer opportunities because it's
• 1:05:27
  likely not a cause that I'm passionate about and my time is
• 1:05:30
  valuable. So I think it's wonderful to
• 1:05:32
  support nonprofit causes. But I've got, you know, I want
• 1:05:36
  to be able to pick and choose the ones that matter to me.
• 1:05:38
  The most it surprises, me that people reach out to you the on
• 1:05:43
  charity based or good cause based expecting stuff for free.
• 1:05:47
  I mean, I That kind of fixes me a little bit.
• 1:05:49
  Like there's a lot, well, not recently but it, I mean, it's a
• 1:05:53
  trend and I think it's a trend for and that maybe it's more of
• 1:05:57
  an American thing, I don't know. But I do think that a lot of my
• 1:06:01
  artist friends have had found that nonprofits either have zero
• 1:06:04
  budget or very little budget. And so it seemed like nonprofit
• 1:06:08
  organizations. Yes, yes, nonprofit
• 1:06:10
  organizations. Yeah.
• 1:06:11
  So so that's, you know, and there are occasions where I
• 1:06:14
  think it's wonderful and you know, there's the hole Dreaded
• 1:06:18
  well, the exposure now for me, I don't know, I don't care about
• 1:06:22
  exposure at all. I've got enough exposure.
• 1:06:24
  I get exposure from companies that pay me, just fine.
• 1:06:27
  Like, I don't need exposure anymore.
• 1:06:30
  That that doesn't, you know, that doesn't tempt me in any
• 1:06:35
  way, shape, or form. In fact, it usually turns me off
• 1:06:37
  from the project. If exposures mentioned, I want
• 1:06:39
  to pay me. I want to chime in on this as
• 1:06:42
  well. Yeah, please, please do like I
• 1:06:45
  am a bit old-fashioned with this, like I believe you pay
• 1:06:48
  people for their work, like even if it's just a symbol pay or
• 1:06:51
  something like that, pay people for their work, their time and
• 1:06:54
  their effort. And you know I've had people
• 1:06:56
  reach out to me people in my network and they're good people
• 1:06:59
  and they're like all question, you know, I know that you say
• 1:07:01
  because sometimes I'll be like oh you know I wish I had a team
• 1:07:05
  that one day I want to have a team for my podcast for, you
• 1:07:08
  know, doing all my editing and all that stuff because I don't
• 1:07:10
  like I love making content, I'll put all the hours they into
• 1:07:13
  that. Yeah.
• 1:07:14
  Excuse me. But I yeah, I find all the
• 1:07:17
  editing and every you know, the constant messaging and all this
• 1:07:20
  stuff like it's tiresome and I know that I would benefit from
• 1:07:23
  having a team behind me. Now, I've had people reach out
• 1:07:27
  to me and say, hey, I'll do this for free and I'm like, I just
• 1:07:29
  can't accept that like, as much as it would help me out.
• 1:07:33
  It's like, I don't think it's okay.
• 1:07:36
  I think it's cheap quite frankly.
• 1:07:39
  I know that's going to be controversial to some but like,
• 1:07:40
  you know, excuse me, even if it s just a tiny Bit it's like
• 1:07:46
  acknowledging that that person's time and effort is worth
• 1:07:49
  something, you know? And yeah, I understand they'll
• 1:07:51
  be people that say oh but what about if it's like an internship
• 1:07:54
  opportunity and or whatever. But like that if you're working
• 1:07:57
  for like a major company or like, you know, someone who's a
• 1:08:03
  big deal, right? And they've got the funds and
• 1:08:07
  stuff and they choose not to pay, you don't bother with those
• 1:08:11
  people as far as I'm concerned. That your mean like And even
• 1:08:15
  with someone like me, yeah, I don't actually physically have
• 1:08:17
  the money to give to these people but I wouldn't accept it
• 1:08:19
  anyway because I just think it's just I don't know.
• 1:08:21
  It's a bit cheaper in my opinion.
• 1:08:23
  I think, you know. Yeah, I think there's ways you
• 1:08:26
  can like any occasion where you may not pay somebody like there
• 1:08:31
  are there are things that like barters I know a lot of artists
• 1:08:35
  will barter with one another to, you know, collaborate for this
• 1:08:39
  or that. But I agree.
• 1:08:41
  I don't want to. I've had people, especially when
• 1:08:43
  my YouTube Out like blew up last year.
• 1:08:46
  I had somebody who reached out to me.
• 1:08:48
  They were very nice. They said, you know, I my hobby
• 1:08:51
  and apparently, a lot of people have this hobby, I had no idea.
• 1:08:53
  My hobby is starting up and helping moderate Discord
• 1:08:56
  servers. I would love to help you with a
• 1:08:58
  Discord server, which was like a very kind thing to offer but I
• 1:09:03
  turned them down. I said, well, you know one I'm
• 1:09:05
  not really invested in starting my own Discord server right now,
• 1:09:09
  I just don't think I would do it.
• 1:09:10
  Justice, or give it the time. It deserves to grow the
• 1:09:12
  community in there. And and to, you know, though, I
• 1:09:18
  very flattered by your offer, I think it's, you know, you're
• 1:09:21
  just doing all this, like, weird for me, completely for free.
• 1:09:23
  And and also, I don't know who you are, like to give you like
• 1:09:26
  power over my community is right.
• 1:09:29
  Yeah, like I the only person I've ever had helped me moderate
• 1:09:33
  in any degree as my boyfriend and he's helped be like in the
• 1:09:36
  background and YouTube videos. When I'm doing live streams
• 1:09:40
  there, like, he'll help moderate while I'm busy working.
• 1:09:44
  And I think like, I had a You know, sometimes I find that like
• 1:09:49
  I'll work with a friend on something or a friend will get
• 1:09:51
  me work. And you I've even offered people
• 1:09:55
  if you could help me get workshops here.
• 1:09:56
  Here, I'll give you a cut of the, of the money, right?
• 1:09:59
  Yeah. Or you know or I like I have a
• 1:10:02
  friend who got me a bunch of work and I designed a business
• 1:10:06
  card for them as thinks like. So it's like if you can, you
• 1:10:09
  know, provide something in return.
• 1:10:11
  I agree. Like there are people who have,
• 1:10:14
  I definitely don't feel like I would be where I am today
• 1:10:16
  without help. Um, I, you know, I've got my
• 1:10:20
  network of friends and family and everything that helped me
• 1:10:23
  get where I am. And I think it's important for
• 1:10:25
  people who are in positions of success to acknowledge that in a
• 1:10:28
  public way, because I don't think, I don't think the pull
• 1:10:33
  yourself up by your bootstraps mentality.
• 1:10:35
  Is the full story. I think people might, you know,
• 1:10:38
  look at a surface level at a successful artist and think
• 1:10:42
  like, oh, wow, well, they just, they put in the grind completely
• 1:10:45
  but may not know. Oh that you know for me like I
• 1:10:49
  said I was able to pay for most of my art school with an
• 1:10:52
  inheritance I got. And I know, I mean, you know, I
• 1:10:55
  don't have a father anymore, but I did have the inheritance money
• 1:10:59
  which was a privilege and gave me a step up.
• 1:11:03
  Like, I wouldn't have been able to even afford art school and
• 1:11:06
  who knows where I'd be today if I didn't pursue that path,
• 1:11:10
  seriously, if I didn't really go all in on it, what I have still
• 1:11:14
  pursued art, what I still have tried to do?
• 1:11:17
  This thing I don't know. So so I think yeah, yeah, It's
• 1:11:22
  Tricky when people offer to help you for free because I agree as
• 1:11:28
  an artist. I want my time to be valued and
• 1:11:32
  I want other people's time to be valued to.
• 1:11:35
  Yeah. But will cost a lot of requests
• 1:11:37
  and stuff. Like what some of the craziest
• 1:11:40
  weirdest request you've ever received, for things I could
• 1:11:44
  draw in an Etch-a-Sketch or just Like in general, I okay, well,
• 1:11:50
  did well that intrigues me, so, I kind of assumed that
• 1:11:53
  everything that you get is at your skirts request.
• 1:11:55
  That what other stuff do you get them?
• 1:11:58
  Well, what did you get? I do get a lot of people who
• 1:12:02
  will request that I like, talk about things like not related to
• 1:12:07
  my career or like, oh, here's a, here's a weird one.
• 1:12:11
  So, I let my nails grow, right? Like, I don't know if I could go
• 1:12:14
  close to the screen, okay? And I know they're not that
• 1:12:16
  long, right? But I don't think grow to have
• 1:12:19
  rather long length and I get very polarizing experiences from
• 1:12:24
  it enough so that I decided to make a kind of salty YouTube
• 1:12:27
  video about it. I get it, I get people who
• 1:12:29
  either are disgusted by it immediately which whatever like
• 1:12:34
  to each their own I guess and then I'll sometimes you get
• 1:12:37
  people. Like I remember I shared a
• 1:12:39
  picture of me like holding an Etch-a-Sketch.
• 1:12:41
  All you saw was my hand and the Etch-a-Sketch and I got like
• 1:12:45
  three different people who deemed me And they were like,
• 1:12:48
  can you send me pictures like this?
• 1:12:53
  I have learned. If it is possible to be
• 1:12:56
  sexualized, it will happen on the internet like Ed and I don't
• 1:13:00
  know how different this is as a woman that a man.
• 1:13:04
  But like I mean so I get a lot of like really a lot of its like
• 1:13:09
  it. I guess it's part of the
• 1:13:10
  territory which likes but but like you know I'll get I'll get
• 1:13:14
  some stuff like that. Or like I'll have like a TV
• 1:13:17
  Carrots baby. I did a lot of like, local news
• 1:13:20
  and Chicago, and soul, and yeah, it's lots of fun.
• 1:13:23
  But then I'll get people who slide into my GM's and like,
• 1:13:26
  they don't want to talk about my art at all.
• 1:13:28
  They just want to be like, I love your eyes and it's like,
• 1:13:32
  well, that I wasn't there to advertise my eyes.
• 1:13:36
  Like they're talking about my art, you want to buy something
• 1:13:40
  like that? That was what you were going to.
• 1:13:47
  So say, I think in my mind I kind of just thought like maybe
• 1:13:51
  there'd be some like weird requests like they're just
• 1:13:53
  sketches but yeah, I suppose. Yeah.
• 1:13:55
  Just in general. If you're gonna be in the public
• 1:13:57
  eye, you're gonna get some weird request.
• 1:13:59
  Yeah. So I do get.
• 1:14:01
  Yeah. Absolutely.
• 1:14:03
  I do get people who assume that. Oh, she's good at Etch A Sketch.
• 1:14:07
  That means can you paint my boat?
• 1:14:10
  Like, you know, they'll ask me like like what like what makes
• 1:14:13
  you think that I'm equipped to use like to paint a boat?
• 1:14:17
  Like I let's all get people who do that.
• 1:14:19
  Like, oh wow, you're so good at that and just sketch.
• 1:14:22
  Can you paint a mural on my kids bedroom?
• 1:14:25
  Like what, what, what like I mean?
• 1:14:29
  In some cases, I can do these other things but like I'll have
• 1:14:33
  people. I remember, I had this guy who,
• 1:14:35
  like, saw me an event and wanted me to design his business card.
• 1:14:39
  Which like, I mean, thankfully I happen to have that skill but
• 1:14:44
  like nothing about what I was doing in that moment.
• 1:14:47
  Would lead someone to assume that I can do this very
• 1:14:50
  disparate thing as well. Like I was drawing portraits on
• 1:14:53
  an Etch-a-Sketch that does not imply that I know how to design
• 1:14:57
  business cards like so I get I get that kind of thing sometimes
• 1:15:00
  where people will just be like oh you're an artist and people
• 1:15:04
  just assume. Yeah, can do everything you
• 1:15:06
  know. So so yeah.
• 1:15:09
  Yeah. The paint my boat one that one
• 1:15:11
  was really strange. Yeah so one of the most
• 1:15:16
  memorable. Request.
• 1:15:18
  You've received like, I don't know, maybe the heart-stirring
• 1:15:22
  or good good feeling or just, maybe just your favorite ones
• 1:15:25
  that you've ever done. I've done some pretty special
• 1:15:28
  Renditions. I did one marriage proposal just
• 1:15:32
  gosh. That's really cute.
• 1:15:35
  Yeah, it's like it was really an honor to be to be a part of that
• 1:15:42
  specific life event and and she said yes.
• 1:15:45
  So yeah. Yeah.
• 1:15:48
  And when I, when I get asked for a really heartfelt request, like
• 1:15:52
  that, I really feel like I I end up befriending, the people that
• 1:15:56
  connect with me. Like I end up starting these
• 1:15:59
  wonderful conversations with people who reach out to me and
• 1:16:03
  like, for example I did this project.
• 1:16:06
  This was so cool last year, right?
• 1:16:08
  Before pandemic began. I got this commission to draw
• 1:16:13
  this photo of a husband and his wife which he Going to give to
• 1:16:18
  his wife as an anniversary present which was very sweet and
• 1:16:21
  we went back and forth and talked a lot about how I was
• 1:16:24
  going to go about doing the drawing.
• 1:16:25
  But then I got to learn about him and his life.
• 1:16:27
  And it turns out that he lives in the DC area, and this is,
• 1:16:32
  before I knew, I was moving to Maryland.
• 1:16:34
  So he commissioned me again, down the road, and I told him I
• 1:16:39
  live near d.c. now. And so once pandemics over, I'm
• 1:16:42
  going to meet him. And I'm going to need his wife,
• 1:16:44
  and he offered to show me around d.c.
• 1:16:47
  See and just so sometimes I get these these requests for, for
• 1:16:52
  really personal things that ends up making lifelong friends out
• 1:16:57
  of these clients that I get to work with, I send Christmas
• 1:17:00
  cards every year and I end up, you know, every year it's like a
• 1:17:05
  wonderful reminder of all these people that that are now in my
• 1:17:09
  life because of this, this little toy that I play with and
• 1:17:14
  these lifelong friendships that have formed and special
• 1:17:16
  connections. So yeah.
• 1:17:18
  So some of those, you know, I feel like I've I never, I never
• 1:17:22
  thought about how how an Etch-a-Sketch would be the
• 1:17:27
  subject matter of choice for some for some people who have
• 1:17:30
  these really special things, but but I think it has to do with
• 1:17:33
  the fact that Etch-a-Sketch evokes Nostalgia and a lot of
• 1:17:36
  people. I've also done some really sad
• 1:17:39
  drawings of like people who passed away those those are
• 1:17:43
  really tough. Like I did.
• 1:17:46
  Oh my gosh. But the saddest drawing I ever
• 1:17:49
  did, I cried? I like I I almost like couldn't
• 1:17:52
  do the project because it was like so sad to me.
• 1:17:54
  It was a there was a son and his father, his father was a police
• 1:18:01
  officer and they had a photo of him.
• 1:18:03
  Walking his son to this to the bus stop and later that day he
• 1:18:08
  was shot in action and and passed away.
• 1:18:12
  And so they wanted me to draw this picture of this father,
• 1:18:16
  walking his The school and it was given to the child on his
• 1:18:22
  birthday like oh, that was the saddest thing I've ever drawn.
• 1:18:28
  And like I even felt like is this the right thing to like,
• 1:18:31
  give to the kit? Like I like I almost like I had
• 1:18:34
  to have a really long dialogue with the person and and I said
• 1:18:38
  that I was like, well you need to give another Etch-a-Sketch
• 1:18:40
  because the kid can't play with it.
• 1:18:41
  Like so I'd like I sent another one to them so the kid could
• 1:18:44
  like play with it, and it was just oh my God.
• 1:18:47
  So like I really never have just no idea what people are going to
• 1:18:54
  want me to create on an Etch-a-Sketch.
• 1:18:56
  And That. Yeah, that was the probably one
• 1:19:00
  of the hardest things I've done in general, like, especially for
• 1:19:03
  my own stuff. I'm super like happy-go-lucky, I
• 1:19:06
  try to just keep it fun and happy and friendly and and and
• 1:19:11
  most of the stuff I do is some kind of celebratory thing.
• 1:19:15
  And, you know, I if somebody wants to, you know, honor
• 1:19:18
  somebody and you know, do something that's like it's a
• 1:19:21
  dialogue. I'm willing to have, it's
• 1:19:22
  definitely something that like I want to, I don't want to take it
• 1:19:25
  lightly and I feel like it has to be a law.
• 1:19:28
  Ang dialogue to make sure that I'm like properly honoring the
• 1:19:31
  person. It's, you know, I don't want to,
• 1:19:34
  I don't want to do anything wrong in that way.
• 1:19:38
  It's such a, such a difficult subject.
• 1:19:40
  Yeah, good on. You food for doing that, you
• 1:19:42
  know, that's that will make that will mean something forever for
• 1:19:46
  those people, you know what I mean.
• 1:19:48
  And that's, I think that's really cool that you that you do
• 1:19:50
  that and it's so varied as well. Yeah, yeah.
• 1:19:53
  I really, I mean, I've drawn golf clubs I've drawn Hi charts
• 1:19:58
  for conferences that were used in.
• 1:20:01
  Slide shows like, you know, just like you the most corporate you
• 1:20:05
  could conceivably think of I've done it.
• 1:20:07
  I've done, I've done the Disney castles for Disney world I've
• 1:20:11
  done. Oh, wow, I've had such a crazy
• 1:20:15
  like variety of subject matter is.
• 1:20:17
  So I'm always up for, for something new and and, yeah, I'm
• 1:20:23
  always interested to see what direction I can take out to
• 1:20:25
  sketch. So you've appeared on chat shows
• 1:20:28
  such as the Kelly Clarkson show and have been featured in
• 1:20:32
  several Publications. Such as the Huffington Post, how
• 1:20:35
  are you dealing with the increasing Fame and attention
• 1:20:38
  towards you and your work has it changed your life that much.
• 1:20:43
  So I am really curious to see what life is going to be like
• 1:20:48
  after pandemic because a lot of these things happened during
• 1:20:51
  pandemic. But it's so funny because I've
• 1:20:55
  got certain friends and some family Just like you're famous
• 1:21:00
  and I'm like, I'm I'm like, gee lest, you know?
• 1:21:05
  Like I don't know what the name is Faye man.
• 1:21:09
  Yeah, I will, I will never forget the first time I was
• 1:21:14
  recognized. Oh cool.
• 1:21:17
  That was crazy. So I did this piece, this was
• 1:21:21
  back in 2016. I was living in Chicago and I
• 1:21:26
  had done this. Addition of, there's the famous
• 1:21:29
  Sarah painting Sunday on the ground shot and that painting
• 1:21:34
  lives at the Art Institute of Chicago, which is kind of a
• 1:21:36
  miracle in itself. Is such an iconic painting.
• 1:21:38
  That's so cool. We have it.
• 1:21:40
  So I sat in front of that painting, I rendered it on an
• 1:21:43
  Etch-a-Sketch over the course of four sittings and I posted it
• 1:21:47
  online and it went viral like nothing I'd ever gone viral
• 1:21:51
  before for me and it was picked up by national news outlets and
• 1:21:55
  I suddenly had a press tour in Chicago like Like it was, it was
• 1:21:59
  crazy. And at that time I was still
• 1:22:01
  working a nine-to-five. So I had to like, schedule the
• 1:22:04
  news for my off days at work like it was, it was so crazy and
• 1:22:10
  I was on my way. Okay, Chris kind 460 that job
• 1:22:13
  that you were in like yeah. Did your flight work is just
• 1:22:17
  like your workmates sort of gonna hang on?
• 1:22:18
  Why were you on the Evening News?
• 1:22:20
  What did that's what happened? Yeah yeah.
• 1:22:23
  So it was really interesting. I had already put in my two
• 1:22:25
  weeks at that job before it. Opened.
• 1:22:28
  And so, I was basically like saddling things there and it was
• 1:22:33
  really hectic, actually, because I was, I was training my
• 1:22:37
  replacement and just high in all the Loose Ends.
• 1:22:39
  I'd been there for years, so like I didn't even have time to
• 1:22:42
  really acknowledge what was happening on the clock.
• 1:22:44
  Like I was like, so focused on like finishing everything up at
• 1:22:47
  that job, and then I would like, you know, before I eat a clock
• 1:22:51
  to that morning, I might have already done the Morning News at
• 1:22:54
  like, 7:00 a.m. so I would like coming to work.
• 1:22:56
  After the Morning News, it was like such Like roller coaster of
• 1:22:59
  like where I'm living this crazy life and own on back to normal
• 1:23:02
  life. Like, yeah, it was, it was, it
• 1:23:05
  was like, living two lives and a lot of ways.
• 1:23:08
  So I was I was on my way to to do a radio show, which I thought
• 1:23:15
  was kind of funny because it's like oh and I just got artists
• 1:23:17
  on the radio. All right there's like no visual
• 1:23:21
  element whatsoever to the radio but I was down for it.
• 1:23:24
  So I was on my way to the Tribune Tower to do WGN Radio.
• 1:23:28
  You and I just got off the train and I was like, holding an
• 1:23:32
  Etch-a-Sketch with me and so it was like, is that puts SSH?
• 1:23:35
  Like at the other side of the train station of like high so
• 1:23:42
  that yeah, every every now and then, I'm like, I'm recognized
• 1:23:45
  just it only ever really happened in Chicago because I'd
• 1:23:48
  spent so long in Chicago, and I've done a lot of things there,
• 1:23:52
  so that's always super cool to me and I always have no idea how
• 1:23:57
  to To it. So so, yeah, that's that's the
• 1:24:01
  neat. It also helps that I wear like
• 1:24:03
  crazy outfits. A lot too.
• 1:24:04
  So, like people who follow me on social media recognize that I
• 1:24:08
  wear like, you know, I wear an Etch-a-Sketch necklace, usually
• 1:24:11
  I wear, yeah, something I wanted to cut, ask you about that and
• 1:24:14
  like, yeah, it's like a weird thing because people, we're just
• 1:24:17
  what they're comfortable with right, you know, you do have a
• 1:24:20
  very quirky like dressings is that?
• 1:24:21
  Just something you've always had ordered that kind of evolved out
• 1:24:24
  of what you were doing and you were like I should be more In
• 1:24:28
  line with what I'm doing or I don't know like is that
• 1:24:31
  contesting? So for me I would say since high
• 1:24:34
  school I've been wearing like crazy stuff most of what I
• 1:24:38
  bought came from thrift stores or whatever.
• 1:24:40
  So like I was always fighting it eclectic kind of kooky different
• 1:24:44
  things that you couldn't just buy at like you know, whatever
• 1:24:47
  local do brick and mortar. And I found that over time like
• 1:24:54
  it's ironic I was a super tomboy as a kid clothes were the most
• 1:24:57
  utilitarian. And for me I you know I hated
• 1:25:00
  that. I was a girl.
• 1:25:01
  All my friends were guys and like I just wanted to like, get
• 1:25:05
  rough in the mud, you know, like I didn't care about, I didn't
• 1:25:08
  want to be what I called a girly, girl.
• 1:25:10
  That was like a derogatory term for me, but then one day, I went
• 1:25:15
  shopping. It was like eighth grade and I
• 1:25:17
  found a skirt and I was like this is a pretty skirt.
• 1:25:19
  I like the school and then bam I started caring about clothes and
• 1:25:24
  and now yeah now it's like I feel like my outfits are.
• 1:25:28
  Just their, they're part of who I am.
• 1:25:29
  I love wearing the silly stuff and, and I'm always hunting for,
• 1:25:34
  like, crazy things. And there's even a community
• 1:25:36
  Associated around that, that I've gotten really plugged in
• 1:25:38
  with, like, I wear a lot of, like, Japanese fashion and yeah,
• 1:25:45
  so I've got there's a whole community of people in the US
• 1:25:48
  and all around the world who wear J Fashion and and they love
• 1:25:52
  it and and it's like so cool to have that community of people
• 1:25:56
  that that I've connected. At the end we get together, we
• 1:26:00
  all wear crazy stuff. We go to Anime conventions
• 1:26:02
  together and all that stuff. So yeah, so I presume that
• 1:26:06
  necklace. You made that yourself.
• 1:26:08
  You design. It yourself or.
• 1:26:10
  Yeah. So it's a it's it's pretty
• 1:26:13
  simple. I just I put it's called like an
• 1:26:15
  ice screw at the top of an already existing Etch-a-Sketch.
• 1:26:17
  So this functions and then there's these little things.
• 1:26:21
  They look kind of like little pearls but they're called pop
• 1:26:24
  beads. They were the big Trend in the
• 1:26:26
  80s and they're these little Stick beads that you could just
• 1:26:29
  like, pop them apart easily so you can make them a long
• 1:26:32
  necklace, but I usually wear them as like a choker.
• 1:26:35
  So I have Hunted online for years to find like every color
• 1:26:40
  of Pop beads that I want. And every little tiny
• 1:26:42
  Etch-a-Sketch color, so I could match all my outfits with an
• 1:26:45
  Etch-a-Sketch and so cool, my trademark for what I wear like,
• 1:26:51
  people people know I wear an Etch-a-Sketch necklace so it's,
• 1:26:55
  yeah, it's been fun. Whenever I do an not just Such
• 1:26:58
  thing I try to incorporate at least one piece of that, just
• 1:27:00
  sketch. It, can people buy that on your
• 1:27:02
  website, can they get that to wear for themselves or love
• 1:27:06
  what? What kind of merchandise you
• 1:27:07
  doing? So I thought about selling I
• 1:27:09
  just got two necklaces, the pop beads, I can't sell just because
• 1:27:12
  they're like such a limited quantity thing that is more
• 1:27:16
  vintage. But I people have asked me four
• 1:27:20
  years to sell at just got your message, do you know, I really
• 1:27:23
  should. I really should.
• 1:27:26
  It's easier to get the small That just catches these days.
• 1:27:29
  So it's definitely conceivable. I saw all kinds of merchandise.
• 1:27:34
  You know. The original art that I make
• 1:27:36
  permanent. That's like my top my
• 1:27:39
  top-selling in my top price. Point items, I sell prints of my
• 1:27:45
  work where I just photograph the finished art and then people can
• 1:27:48
  buy a print of it for a lower price point.
• 1:27:50
  If they did, if the originals not available anymore or they
• 1:27:53
  can't afford the original and then I've got stickers some Most
• 1:27:58
  popular works and little like buttons pins.
• 1:28:03
  I've thought about expanding more, but I'm also trying to
• 1:28:06
  figure out as a business. What direction I should go next.
• 1:28:11
  I want to provide lower price point items so that all of my
• 1:28:16
  fans can conceivably afford, a piece of merchandise for me, I
• 1:28:19
  like making are accessible to the masses because I recognize
• 1:28:23
  most of my art most people can't afford like and it's a re art is
• 1:28:28
  a luxury. Now I have to make it that way
• 1:28:30
  because I got to pay my bills and I have to justify the, you
• 1:28:34
  know, the time the cost of materials, the extremely
• 1:28:37
  specific Niche skill. I've spent two decades, you
• 1:28:40
  know, cultivating, you know, all those things.
• 1:28:45
  So yeah, yeah. So that's that's kind of those
• 1:28:48
  are the main things that I sell on my Etsy store specifically.
• 1:28:53
  And you know, occasionally, I'll do like all salt.
• 1:28:58
  Lapse videos for different companies.
• 1:29:00
  That's, that's definitely one of my more like corporate tear
• 1:29:03
  options. So, there's like a whole
• 1:29:06
  separate tier of products that I've really only offer on like,
• 1:29:10
  a corporate level, like the, the time-lapse videos and the going
• 1:29:18
  to like Live Events and doing live.
• 1:29:19
  Portraiture I also do workshops. So, I teach the very basics of
• 1:29:24
  that. Just sketch.
• 1:29:25
  I work with a lot of like public libraries.
• 1:29:27
  And like, Children's Museums and such.
• 1:29:30
  So, yeah. There's, there's a lot of
• 1:29:32
  services. I offer a lot of which I can't
• 1:29:34
  right now during pandemic. But thankfully, the I have so
• 1:29:38
  many, you know, it's a spider web of options that I'm able to
• 1:29:42
  kind of focus on one part during the pandemic and cultivate that
• 1:29:46
  further. So I presume you've got you've
• 1:29:49
  been doing a lot of stuff online then like online teaching.
• 1:29:52
  I guess I I've been doing a little bit.
• 1:29:55
  I started recording videos. I'm sorry.
• 1:29:57
  To do, we get a person but I've I've seriously considered that's
• 1:30:01
  that's like one of the top things on my to-do list is to
• 1:30:05
  put together a pre-recorded Workshop that people can just
• 1:30:08
  like purchase admission to. So it's this kind of like this
• 1:30:15
  passive income Source, right? Yeah.
• 1:30:18
  So that's definitely something I'm interested in pursuing.
• 1:30:22
  There's that's that's the beautiful thing about being an
• 1:30:24
  artist is like, we are the masters of our own destiny.
• 1:30:27
  In a lot of ways. We're R not bound by a paycheck
• 1:30:29
  given to us by a boss. We can conceivably create our
• 1:30:33
  own Revenue sources. We can create like we can make
• 1:30:37
  the life we want if we make that work that you know focuses on
• 1:30:41
  what makes us happy. So I just, you know, for any
• 1:30:45
  artist listening, you can create your own opportunity, you don't
• 1:30:50
  have to wait for opportunity to fall in your lap because you
• 1:30:53
  can, you can do some really cool things.
• 1:30:54
  Right now, this is why I'm desperately trying to Right now,
• 1:30:58
  I'll just put it on my heart. My heart and soul into it.
• 1:31:01
  I've done. Well, no, I didn't somebody for
• 1:31:03
  some voice acting recently. So that's one thing I did.
• 1:31:06
  But like, other than that it's, we are nothing from this but one
• 1:31:12
  day one day it'll be different but no, I totally get where
• 1:31:16
  you're coming from, you know? That's all.
• 1:31:18
  Yeah. And all the videos I make, you
• 1:31:21
  know, on Tick, Tock and YouTube like those don't make money
• 1:31:23
  either that or they will actually products.
• 1:31:25
  They were. Yeah.
• 1:31:27
  That's your YouTube. I'm surprised The Tick-Tock I
• 1:31:31
  was under the impression that after a while you do start to
• 1:31:33
  make money from, you know, I make I make some money like for
• 1:31:36
  example, the the Creator fund I made last month I made like 70
• 1:31:42
  bucks. So it's like okay that's it.
• 1:31:45
  That's part of my grocery bill. That's cool and through YouTube
• 1:31:50
  it's really weird. It looks like I'd be making more
• 1:31:53
  money than I do but because most of my videos are super short
• 1:31:56
  form content. The kind of AD Revenue you get,
• 1:32:00
  it's such a convoluted thing. I got I shared a screenshot
• 1:32:04
  recently because a lot of my videos have amassed literally
• 1:32:08
  millions of views because they've been shared on the short
• 1:32:11
  feature of YouTube, right? So when you look at a video you
• 1:32:14
  see it has 4 million views. The average Joe is apt to assume
• 1:32:18
  like oh this probably made thousands of dollars but the
• 1:32:21
  problem is it's being featured on shorts and through that
• 1:32:24
  feature on YouTube, they're not running a lot of ads.
• 1:32:26
  So There's no ad Revenue to make.
• 1:32:29
  And I think I made like Something like there's a video,
• 1:32:34
  I got 400,000 views and I think I'd be like 96 cents per hundred
• 1:32:40
  thousand views. So it's definitely a different
• 1:32:44
  Frontier now, on YouTube than it used to be.
• 1:32:47
  I know some of those older videos, like, Charlie, bit my
• 1:32:50
  finger, those made deep six things like, insane money.
• 1:32:54
  It's just such a different. It's a whole different field
• 1:32:58
  now. And, you know, you have to
• 1:33:00
  adapt. But like, for me, I want to
• 1:33:02
  work. So much more toward getting
• 1:33:04
  these kind of passive income streams.
• 1:33:06
  Like, I've got patreon. I've got that right?
• 1:33:09
  Yeah, the I think me but because that's what I'm heading towards
• 1:33:12
  as well. I think that's where the money
• 1:33:13
  is the sponsorships. If you do like paid things for
• 1:33:17
  like I presume that when you do stuff for companies as probably
• 1:33:22
  some sort of like deal, they're generally me like that.
• 1:33:24
  These sorts of things is where you're going to make the money
• 1:33:27
  and like like if you can make some money from views great.
• 1:33:30
  But I don't think I think most Content creators that trying to
• 1:33:33
  get into it realize that they're probably not going to make the
• 1:33:36
  money from views. Nice.
• 1:33:38
  Right. Yeah, for me I find that most of
• 1:33:41
  my money comes from the corporate gigs, you know, a
• 1:33:45
  handful of year. So I'll get one job.
• 1:33:47
  That'll pay three months of of you know income for me.
• 1:33:51
  But if I'd be pretty quiet, otherwise like right plans for
• 1:33:54
  me has been very, you know, highs and lows but having the
• 1:34:00
  monthly passive income has been. So Nice to kind of help just,
• 1:34:04
  you know, like iíve had months where I would make, you know, so
• 1:34:09
  you know, thousands and thousands of dollars one month.
• 1:34:11
  And then the next two months, I'd make like, $30.
• 1:34:15
  Like it's crazy, just how it could be, how how high is it
• 1:34:21
  glows? And so, for me, I've learned a
• 1:34:22
  bunch of my life accordingly, I don't, I lived frugally, I live,
• 1:34:26
  you know, I do not go all out and celebrate a big gig because
• 1:34:31
  I recognize that that Biggs probably going to help me hold
• 1:34:34
  myself over for a while. There are definitely slow
• 1:34:37
  seasons and busy seasons for me, you know, the holiday season is
• 1:34:41
  always super hectic for me. I know that, you know, from
• 1:34:44
  October through December. I'm working like every day, it's
• 1:34:48
  going to be really intense. So I know that the money I make
• 1:34:52
  during that period is going to hold me out through April
• 1:34:54
  because April, you know, January through April people just don't
• 1:34:57
  spend this much money. Yes, you can thinking way ahead
• 1:35:00
  with this stuff then. Yeah.
• 1:35:02
  Yeah, so it's like that. You know, that helps tide me
• 1:35:04
  over and I still get work. But oftentimes, you know, I'll
• 1:35:08
  have a certain, you know, if I make this much of month on
• 1:35:11
  average that I'm doing great and it really has to be on average
• 1:35:15
  because I definitely don't hit that Benchmark every month and
• 1:35:17
  sometimes I just break the stratosphere on a random month.
• 1:35:21
  You know, so it's like a very, it's a, it can be pretty
• 1:35:27
  stressful. Like sometimes I can go two
• 1:35:31
  weeks without Without a commission.
• 1:35:33
  And it's like, it's been two weeks.
• 1:35:35
  And I just feel like, oh, I'm starting to freak out.
• 1:35:38
  Like, it's been two weeks, and I don't have any money in my bank
• 1:35:40
  account, but I've been working every day.
• 1:35:42
  I do other things. So, that's another reason why
• 1:35:44
  it's important to make your own opportunities.
• 1:35:48
  People a reason to pay you money for things because like people,
• 1:35:52
  you know, I people find me, they find me through my are they find
• 1:35:56
  me through my YouTube, whatever social media and then they
• 1:35:59
  commissioned me, but it's like, that's why I have to be posting
• 1:36:01
  every day. Because I need people to see my
• 1:36:04
  stuff and every now and then one of those people is a customer.
• 1:36:08
  I never expect people to be, but yeah, so that's the key.
• 1:36:11
  Like, you don't presumably when you started doing this, you will
• 1:36:14
  reaching out to people a lot. But now your focus is on just
• 1:36:18
  putting the content out it speaks for itself and people
• 1:36:20
  reach out to you and then that's how the business happens.
• 1:36:23
  Yeah. Yeah I do almost no Outreach for
• 1:36:26
  most of my services. The only Outreach I do is
• 1:36:30
  workshops. I had Yeah, so I like reach out
• 1:36:33
  to local libraries and stuff for that and then when I attend to
• 1:36:37
  certain events, I tend to meet people through networking and
• 1:36:40
  that the, you know, starts an organic conversation that might
• 1:36:43
  lead to work. But yes, I do very little like
• 1:36:47
  cold calling or cold emailing which I recognize is like a very
• 1:36:52
  awesome thing for my business like that.
• 1:36:55
  Like I don't have to depend on that as much.
• 1:36:57
  Now it would benefit me to do more of that, I'm sure, but it's
• 1:37:00
  also I just say it's really difficult to go in blind with
• 1:37:04
  somebody and convince them that they have a need for an
• 1:37:07
  Etch-a-Sketch artist, its kind of cell.
• 1:37:11
  Listen to me. This is why you need an
• 1:37:13
  Etch-a-Sketch in your life, it's a little bit of, you know, so
• 1:37:19
  it's like, you know, sometimes I've connected with companies
• 1:37:22
  that might like follow me on social media.
• 1:37:24
  So it's like, okay, you already find enough value in me to
• 1:37:26
  follow me. So maybe, let's see if we can
• 1:37:29
  start some kind of a project or dialogue from Here we can work
• 1:37:32
  something out. So yeah, yeah, that's about.
• 1:37:36
  I try to do like warm emails instead of cold emails, but,
• 1:37:41
  but, yes, that's, that's the thing about it.
• 1:37:42
  Just catch it, can it definitely, there is a lot of
• 1:37:45
  value that could be provided in, especially for social media,
• 1:37:47
  marketing campaigns, like Etch-a-Sketch gets fantastic
• 1:37:50
  engagement. People remember it people freak
• 1:37:53
  out when they see something cool drawn on it, it gets people to
• 1:37:55
  stick around and watch the whole video.
• 1:37:58
  So there's there's a lot to be said for, you know why companies
• 1:38:02
  Have hired me in the past, but but yes, to go, you know, I
• 1:38:06
  don't think I could, you know, drive down the street to my
• 1:38:08
  local pizza shop, and and tell them, you know, I think I've got
• 1:38:12
  the greatest video for you to post about your pizza shop, like
• 1:38:16
  it, it's a, yeah, it's a bit of a difficult sell for, for people
• 1:38:22
  who aren't like high-level corporate, like, it seems like
• 1:38:25
  high-level corporate is more interested in like the kooky
• 1:38:27
  post, see ya, I think. Okay, I'm going to slightly.
• 1:38:32
  Disagree with you on this but only for one reason, I think the
• 1:38:34
  more famous and well-known you get the more the this will be
• 1:38:40
  requested so taking your pizza thing as an example.
• 1:38:43
  Right, let's say a year from now, two years from now, like
• 1:38:46
  you get even more recognition more, you know?
• 1:38:49
  Well-known, I presume that when you do these, just sketches as
• 1:38:52
  well. Like, somewhere on.
• 1:38:54
  There is your logo, your name, quite right?
• 1:38:58
  Yeah, I usually have some kind of a banner.
• 1:39:00
  Yeah. If there's a way that you make
• 1:39:02
  these kind of available to like, You know, everyone sort of, so
• 1:39:06
  to speak, then, you know, I think you'll probably get more
• 1:39:09
  people wanting to get it because because it'll be like, oh, hey,
• 1:39:11
  yeah, I can have this. Yeah.
• 1:39:12
  In the window of my pizza shop and it's like this was me the
• 1:39:15
  search and you know what I mean? I could.
• 1:39:17
  I could just see that happening one day.
• 1:39:20
  Sure. Yeah.
• 1:39:21
  And that's, you know, that's another reason.
• 1:39:22
  Why for a marketing perspective that I raise my prices every
• 1:39:26
  year because I also want to reward people for being early
• 1:39:29
  adapters like I want to like reward people and make them
• 1:39:32
  understand that their work will only like More perceived value
• 1:39:36
  over time. And I, and it's true because I,
• 1:39:39
  you know, I also am learning more every day and I'm, you
• 1:39:43
  know, I'm growing as an artist and for all sorts of other
• 1:39:46
  reasons, I have to raise my pricing every year.
• 1:39:48
  But but yes, I never want to like, cut my pricing because I
• 1:39:52
  don't want everybody to sort of lie.
• 1:39:53
  Feel like the I've conned, then, you know, I don't want to like,
• 1:39:57
  oh well, this used to be a two hundred dollar product, but now,
• 1:39:59
  it was only a hundred dollars and you know that everyone who
• 1:40:01
  paid 200, you idiots. Well I think your idea The about
• 1:40:05
  having tears to this, is a much more sensible idea and I totally
• 1:40:09
  agree with you. I think I think that for
• 1:40:11
  example, you take apple, when's the last time you saw Apple, you
• 1:40:14
  know, lower their prices they never you know because if you do
• 1:40:16
  that it affects the perception of your product and I'm sorry.
• 1:40:20
  I think I could talk to you today about marketing, but I try
• 1:40:22
  not to let. Yeah.
• 1:40:23
  But I completely agree. I see businesses doing that, you
• 1:40:29
  know, and and the reality of dropping prices is that like,
• 1:40:33
  especially for businesses. You do that, you're not actually
• 1:40:37
  drop in the price. Like the mark-up is the mark-up
• 1:40:40
  for a reason though. That the what they actually.
• 1:40:43
  Like, I remember one time, I think I've met am on the podcast
• 1:40:46
  before, but one time, I did a very brief internship for like a
• 1:40:50
  curse. What was it like a suitcase?
• 1:40:53
  Luggage company worldwide company.
• 1:40:56
  And basically, that gave me access to all their, you know,
• 1:40:59
  price sheet. So I saw like, they actually how
• 1:41:02
  much they actually small cool. And the mark-up was ridiculous.
• 1:41:06
  Like, if a suitcase was created for like 15 pounds, they sold it
• 1:41:11
  for like 215 pounds, you know, it was huge.
• 1:41:15
  And so like I looked at that and I said, wow.
• 1:41:17
  So like in the store when they charge it for like fifty
• 1:41:19
  percent, they're still making a huge markup, it's not
• 1:41:22
  discovered. So it's just like that sales
• 1:41:25
  tactic, I guess your marketing tactic.
• 1:41:27
  But yeah, yeah, yeah. That's, it's really interesting
• 1:41:30
  to think about. I have to think about that a
• 1:41:32
  lot, because there is a fully understandable.
• 1:41:34
  Option of what? How much an Etch-a-Sketch costs,
• 1:41:36
  and that's like, a big hill. I have to, to cross, like, I
• 1:41:40
  have to, I have to justify like, listen, I'm selling a piece of
• 1:41:45
  art made on a 15 dollar toy for a thousand dollars.
• 1:41:50
  And like, I need to convince people that they're not just
• 1:41:52
  buying a fifteen dollar product, they're buying a thousand dollar
• 1:41:55
  product, right? And you know, for me, I'm able
• 1:41:58
  to justify that by explaining, you know, the time, it takes me
• 1:42:01
  and all that. But even when I do, like some of
• 1:42:04
  the work I do, I do like for time-lapse videos.
• 1:42:06
  Only might take me a few hours or might take me half an hour
• 1:42:09
  and it's like well, I charge a much higher price point for my
• 1:42:13
  time lapse videos. And, you know, some people might
• 1:42:16
  be upset if they learned that it only took me an hour to film a
• 1:42:19
  video and they'll think oh well you're in, you know.
• 1:42:22
  So it's like I always have to isolate get over those mind
• 1:42:25
  blocks like yeah no, no. Like there's a lot more value
• 1:42:28
  than the amount of time. It took me no II, completely
• 1:42:31
  understand when you're coming from on that, I had to learn
• 1:42:33
  that with Marketing freelancing. You know what you said about
• 1:42:37
  raising your prices every year. I do the same thing, recently.
• 1:42:40
  Negotiated with someone who is offering me a much lower price
• 1:42:46
  than I would normally go for. And I just said, I just can't
• 1:42:49
  drop to that because of the time and effort that goes into it.
• 1:42:53
  And it, you know, from a logical standpoint, if you got x amount
• 1:42:57
  of people, paying you a certain rate and then someone was to
• 1:42:59
  come in and give you a much lower rate, it's like, why would
• 1:43:04
  I accept That like, you know, right.
• 1:43:06
  Yeah. Anyway, yeah.
• 1:43:10
  I should, I should let you know that.
• 1:43:11
  I gotta go in about 13 minutes. I've got, I've got something at
• 1:43:15
  once. I wanted to give you an
• 1:43:16
  opportunity to ask any final things you had to say.
• 1:43:19
  I kind of figured and you've been very accommodating so I
• 1:43:22
  really do appreciate it. Yeah, I got two final questions.
• 1:43:25
  Actually, first question is, I want to sort of understand your
• 1:43:30
  process for just creating an h and it just sketch like, what's
• 1:43:34
  the general? It's just that you go through
• 1:43:36
  sure. So it depends on what I'm
• 1:43:39
  creating say. If I'm doing a commissioned work
• 1:43:41
  I'll usually after we determine the size of the Etch, A Sketch
• 1:43:45
  up going to use, I'll take the reference photo provided for me
• 1:43:48
  and I will scale it down to be like a one-to-one scale with the
• 1:43:52
  drawing that I'm doing. So I am very closely studying
• 1:43:57
  the original reference photo as I work.
• 1:43:59
  When I begin a drawing, I tried to do the most difficult part
• 1:44:03
  first, because if I make a mistake, Mistake.
• 1:44:05
  I want to make it early so I will lay out usually like the
• 1:44:09
  line work or like the Contours of the drawing to figure out the
• 1:44:12
  proportions and get all that down pat and then it takes
• 1:44:15
  longer to do the shading but the shadings like the easy part
• 1:44:18
  because it's kind of methodical. I could kind of just turn my
• 1:44:22
  brain off for a while work on those minut details.
• 1:44:26
  If I'm doing a portrait I'll work on the facial features
• 1:44:29
  first because you want to capture the their likeness, if
• 1:44:33
  it doesn't look like them, it doesn't matter.
• 1:44:34
  Nicer the drawing looks, they're not going to like it and then I
• 1:44:39
  will. So once I, you know, once I
• 1:44:42
  finished the drawing, then there's the task of making it
• 1:44:45
  permanent. So then I will disassemble.
• 1:44:49
  The Etch-a-Sketch I have to like, pop the knobs off and then
• 1:44:52
  I saw the Etch-a-Sketch apart, I've got yours my sorry here,
• 1:44:56
  and then I saw, I saw the Etch-a-Sketch apart.
• 1:44:59
  Here's here's a drawing that I won't show the drawing because
• 1:45:01
  it's not released yet, but I popped the knobs off already.
• 1:45:04
  So You see these little tiny posts.
• 1:45:06
  So I'm going to saw the frame off right here and then there's
• 1:45:09
  like an internal box that holds the powder inside.
• 1:45:13
  So then I saw through that box as well, depending on the edges
• 1:45:17
  sketch, some of them, you can lift the glass off, but it
• 1:45:19
  really depends. And then I, you know, I
• 1:45:23
  disassembled it. I cleaned out the Etch-a-Sketch,
• 1:45:26
  I make sure to remove the internal components so that the
• 1:45:29
  knobs are no longer connected to the to the stylus.
• 1:45:33
  So then you can turn The knobs freely, but it won't create any
• 1:45:37
  new lines on the screen because I removed the stylist and then I
• 1:45:41
  will put it all back together, I'll clean it all up.
• 1:45:44
  And then I will photograph the work for my own personal
• 1:45:48
  archives and records and then I packaged it all up.
• 1:45:51
  I've got a whole process for that.
• 1:45:52
  Use a lot of bubble wrap, and then send it on, its merry way
• 1:45:56
  to the client. And that's kind of the longer
• 1:45:58
  the short of it. That's, you know, a commission,
• 1:46:01
  a typical commission of mine. That's how I, that's how I go
• 1:46:03
  about doing it. Awesome.
• 1:46:05
  Thanks for sharing. What's the biggest life lesson
• 1:46:09
  you've learned so far? Wow, the biggest life lesson.
• 1:46:15
  I've learned so far. I feel like I could answer with
• 1:46:22
  like 30 things. But I guess the one that that
• 1:46:30
  comes to mind just from this conversation is that you you're
• 1:46:37
  the master of your own destiny, in a lot of ways.
• 1:46:40
  I understand that, you know I got where I am with help and I
• 1:46:46
  know that I didn't come from, absolutely nothing.
• 1:46:51
  But I do believe that we all have agency in our lives.
• 1:46:54
  We all have the ability To use our situations in life and and
• 1:47:00
  make something that we want from it.
• 1:47:02
  So I took my life and decided that I wanted to pursue the
• 1:47:08
  silly career and at just sketch and it took a lot of hard work
• 1:47:12
  and it took some help and but it but I was able to do it.
• 1:47:17
  And so, if there's anything that, you know, something that
• 1:47:21
  I've learned in life through my own experience, is that it is
• 1:47:24
  possible to pursue your Eames and you may not necessarily know
• 1:47:29
  what that dream is, you might find out what that dream is
• 1:47:32
  while you're working toward it. My dream is pretty simple.
• 1:47:37
  My dream is, well, maybe it may not be considered simple to
• 1:47:40
  some, but it is to be a self-sufficient off of an
• 1:47:44
  Etch-a-Sketch and that dream might change in a few years, who
• 1:47:47
  knows? But for right now, that's the
• 1:47:50
  dream that I'm pursuing and, and I think that I was able to do it
• 1:47:55
  because I put in the time. So you know to any to anybody
• 1:48:01
  who is working as a creative, I'm trying to find a nice
• 1:48:07
  succinct way to sum it up but basically you're the master of
• 1:48:10
  your own destiny, you can make things happen.
• 1:48:12
  You can open doors, you can create doors, you can you can
• 1:48:17
  make the life that you want to live in some way and it doesn't
• 1:48:20
  mean that you're going to become a millionaire being, you know,
• 1:48:24
  doing whatever you're doing. But I That you can you can be
• 1:48:28
  happy if you if you pushed for what you want to do.
• 1:48:32
  So thanks for sharing as we draw things to a close today.
• 1:48:36
  Do you have any upcoming projects or maybe some final
• 1:48:39
  thoughts that you'd like to share with us as for upcoming
• 1:48:43
  projects? I have this dream to someday at
• 1:48:45
  just got all Pokemon. All of them.
• 1:48:49
  It's going to be ridiculous. I'm focusing on the 151 right
• 1:48:52
  now. Awesome.
• 1:48:54
  I want to do. I have a my best friend back.
• 1:48:56
  Home in Michigan. He's a video editor and we want
• 1:48:59
  to at just catch the pokerap. That's, that's like my dream in
• 1:49:04
  life is to just sketch the pokerap.
• 1:49:07
  It all. It'll take a long time.
• 1:49:09
  I still I'm only like 15 percent of the way there but that's
• 1:49:14
  that's my dream. I'm working on a series of
• 1:49:17
  drawings right now which I'm I I'm not ready to talk about them
• 1:49:21
  yet because the project is still really young.
• 1:49:23
  I don't want to jinx myself. But yeah.
• 1:49:27
  Yeah that's what I'm working on now and I forgot the other thing
• 1:49:31
  you said just maybe if you had some fun with thoughts.
• 1:49:34
  But yeah, well first off, thank you so much for having me on
• 1:49:37
  this podcast. This has been a pleasure.
• 1:49:39
  And and yeah, if anybody has ever interested in anything
• 1:49:44
  regarding Etch-a-Sketch, or even just being a freelance artist or
• 1:49:48
  something that I spoke about in relation to this podcast today,
• 1:49:53
  feel free to reach it. Reach out to me or to Christian
• 1:49:56
  In and, you know, you can forward anything to me,
• 1:49:58
  specifically. I'm always really happy to start
• 1:50:01
  a dialogue. I believe firmly that artists
• 1:50:04
  should try to help other artists, you know?
• 1:50:06
  This is something we're not in this Cutthroat competitive
• 1:50:09
  world, we can all exist together.
• 1:50:12
  We could all establish our own niches and establish our own
• 1:50:15
  value. So, yeah, so I'm super happy to
• 1:50:19
  talk to people and, you know, provide any advice that I can
• 1:50:23
  from my limited experience as a freelancer.
• 1:50:27
  Thank you so much for being on the show.
• 1:50:28
  It's been an absolute pleasure to have you.
• 1:50:30
  And I want to say to all my listeners, make sure to go check
• 1:50:33
  out princess etch you can find out everywhere online.
• 1:50:35
  She's very, very clearly, very good, branding yourself and you
• 1:50:39
  know, she does fantastic work. And yes, make sure you go check
• 1:50:43
  her out. And if you're listening to the
• 1:50:45
  Christian we'd podcast on YouTube, make sure to like,
• 1:50:48
  share and subscribe. If you're listening the Spotify
• 1:50:51
  app or podcast Google podcasts, you know what to do?
• 1:50:53
  Leave us a review. Let us know your thoughts.
• 1:50:56
  Let us Know who you would like to see on the show.
• 1:50:57
  Next, what topics you would like to hear all of that jazz.
• 1:51:01
  And thank you very much for listening until next time.
• 1:51:04
  Peace out. One love.
• 1:51:05
  I'll see you in the next one.