Latest / RunThrough Trails / #Ep 48 - Matthis Granet | 24,759m in 48 Hours, 40 Trail Goals & the Ultra Trail Mindset

Transcript

#Ep 48 - Matthis Granet | 24,759m in 48 Hours, 40 Trail Goals & the Ultra Trail Mindset · RunThrough Trails

• 0:27
  SPEAKER_00: Hello, welcome back to the Run Through Trails Podcast.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_00: My name is Beth, and I am your host.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_00: And today we have Matthias with us.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_00: He has taken on some crazy challenges.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_00: We've got Swift Speaks 660K, Marathon to Sabs, UTMB, and recently broke the 48-hour elevation challenge where he did 24,579 meters of elevation, which is just insane.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm really excited to hear about this challenge and all the amazing races that he has done.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for coming joining the podcast.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_00: How are you?
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm good.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks a lot for having me in your podcast.
• 1:03
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited for this conversation.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_00: And I don't think we've really ever had someone on the podcast before that has done like such a incredible challenge that's so unique.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm really excited to hear about that.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_00: So could you tell us a bit more about your trail running journey and kind of introduce yourself?
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: So I started trail running actually.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um I really started when I was 20 years old, like 19 years old.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so now I'm 28 and in one month 29.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: Um but actually my first trail running race was when I when I had uh 13 years old.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: When I was 13 years old, and uh I did like a vertical kilometer uh in Manigot, it's like uh uh near uh between Chamonix and ANSI, and uh and it was Kyle Internet that uh won the race.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: And uh and then I started like uh following all his uh crazy stuff, and uh then I became like passionate and I followed everything, but I really started like uh five years later uh because I was playing tennis like in competition, so um it's not possible to do everything.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_00: That's really cool, and it's crazy you did a vertical kilometer at the age of 13.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_00: I did one last year and I found it hard enough now, let alone at the age of 13.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: That is some fitness.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think what do you like vertical kilometer race?
• 2:30
  SPEAKER_00: Is that what kind of inspired your 48-hour challenge?
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, maybe, but I like elevation actually.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: So I like the mountains, I like to be in the mountains, it's like a passion for me.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I think uh trail running is like the perfect combo of being in the mountains and uh doing competition.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you know, like hiking is nice, but you don't have a competition side, so trail running is like the best combo of it.
• 2:59
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's so true, and it's a it's a good excuse to spend a whole day or even longer, depending on what race you're doing in the mountains, which is just really cool.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_00: So, what kind of races do you normally take on?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like I said, you've done like Swiss Peak 660, which is like I'm guessing that's the longest race you've done.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, it's the longest one.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, there are not many races that are longer than Swiss Peak.
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, it was uh 715k at Mato at my watch.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 3:32
  SPEAKER_00: And then you've also done, well, I guess Marathon de Sabs isn't in the mountains, but then you've got a long list of mountain races across the Alps and many other cool ones.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_00: But aside from racing, I think didn't you take on did you try and beat the 24-hour record first and then you went on to the 48-hour record?
• 3:50
  SPEAKER_00: Are you able to talk a bit more about your record?
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, exactly.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: So five years ago in 2021, I tried to beat the world record uh of 24 hours.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_01: So the record was um it was Aurelien du Nompala that uh that had it.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and it was 17,200 meters of elevation.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_01: And I tried to do it, but I didn't succeed, and I did 1660 uh 16,600 meters of elevation.
• 4:22
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so it was like 500 meters less than the record.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh actually I was on like on target for like 20 hours, uh, but like from 20 to 22 hours I had like a big um uh how do you hypoglycemia like when we are when you are very low on energy.
• 4:40
  SPEAKER_00: Uh yeah.
• 4:41
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and I and I couldn't eat anything.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it was quite difficult for like two hours, and then the last two hours I could eat again, and it was better.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I had this like on my mind.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then many of virtual runners uh like tried to beat the record of 24 hours, and I would I was following it.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and then I saw the record on 48 hours, so it was in 2022.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was made by the by the French runner also, Paul-Henri Romestin.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I was like, wow, that's that's interesting.
• 5:17
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, when I did the 24 hours, it was uh just before UTMB, and it was my first ever 100 mile race.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I before that I never done like a 24-hour effort um in my life, and so I was like, oh the 24 hour like elevation is like a good challenge like to test uh how I'm on like a 24 hour effort and to test like nutrition and um even like if I want to sleep or something like that.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um and then uh this year I'm I want to do so I'm doing the Tor de Géant 330k in September, and so I thought that it could be a great idea like to gain experience and like uh on this type of effort, like 48 hours when where like it's not like uh 30 30 hours where you don't have to sleep.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_01: Now I'm quite used like to effort of a hundred mile race, and like for me, I don't have to sleep.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so I wanted to test something longer, and like in 48 hours you need to sleep a little bit, or you can be very, very tired.
• 6:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so I could test that, and it was a great experience.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I also love uh like the the way of organizing the event, you know, because when you are in a 12-running race, like uh normal, like you just go to the start line with your bib and that's it, and then you race and that's it.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh now I had like to do everything.
• 6:53
  SPEAKER_01: So uh I had like to talk to sponsors to get some money because I had to pay uh it's like around 1,000 euros, like this type of events, because there is someone that is uh recording your race, like uh with the time.
• 7:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you are you have like uh anti-docking control, you have two, one three days before, one three days after.
• 7:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you also have like uh someone who is um taking the exact uh distance of the place, like uh you are doing it, so like to know if it's exactly like 67 meters and 21 centimeter or 22.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh because after like 300 times it becomes uh a lot of meters of elevation.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so yeah, and also like organize the events, so make people come at your events.
• 7:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um I am also doing like projects for um associations.
• 7:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so the the association could uh could come uh on the site so we could collect some money.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I also had like some sponsor that came, like Montecost, who was uh who was like uh uh taking like pair of shoes, so people that came could uh like run with the Montecost shoes.
• 8:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I had also like Crewet Vance NC, who is like my uh recovery um uh sponsor.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: So they had like uh things uh like ways to recover.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so people that are running with me could recover and then come back again with me like two hours later, and they were also suing someone who was doing the massage.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it was uh like a big event at the end, and uh yeah, it was great.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: No, that is really cool, and it's a lot of things behind the scenes that you don't realize that have to happen to make these things happen, and it's quite nice because like not only is it a record attempt, you're getting trailrunners together, you're getting people passionate about the sport, you're getting people to you know work with people like Mount Coast and like your recovery brand and stuff like that.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, that was really cool.
• 8:58
  SPEAKER_00: When I was watching it, I don't know why, but in my head, I was expecting you to go all the way up the mountain and then come all the way back down.
• 9:04
  SPEAKER_00: Now is that odd?
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: Do you get a lift down to the bottom or you just going up?
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: But no, you were literally on a very small stretch, just going up, down, up, down.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_00: So, how did you kind of decide how long?
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_01: So, actually, where I did it, it's just the hill which which is uh just above my home.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, like it's around 71 meters of elevation.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: If I start from my home, go all the way up and come down.
• 9:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but actually it's quite technical um and it's too long for like a record like that.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so there was like studies that have been uh uh existing, and and they like all said that you need to take short uh segments so you can alternate a lot between uphill and downhill, uh, it's better for the legs, and also like non-technical, so you don't have to think and like straight.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_01: So the place I I took is like a ski slope uh place, so it's grass, so it's not technical.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's it's straight, so that's that's very very good for that.
• 10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, if the segment could be like 100 or 150 meters of elevation, it could have been better like for the mantle because it's less uh up and down.
• 10:21
  SPEAKER_01: But the the perfect like um uh elevation was like the like the segment I took.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so it was 69 meters of elevation.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah.
• 10:33
  SPEAKER_01: If it had been like 30 meters more, it would have been maybe better, but like not 200 or 300 meters, then it's like I think too long.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of laps.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I did 359 laps, I think.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:50
  SPEAKER_00: Wow.
• 10:51
  SPEAKER_00: That is crazy.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know the percentage gradient?
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so it's uh 20 uh 26 meters, uh 26% of uh of uh gradient, yeah.
• 11:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's a lot of like it's good at it's good because I guess for what you're doing, you're getting a lot of elevation for the distance, so that is decent.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_00: It's very different, but when it was um lockdown and COVID, I did this like relay and I was doing like a 10-meter stretch down the side of my house because it was the only side of my house was Wi-Fi, and I it was only 10k, it was very short.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_00: But my legs really ate the next day because I didn't realise I was always turning on the same leg when you went round because it was like, I don't know, it was like 700 laps down the side of my house.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And I imagine, like, did you have to think about when you got to the top, like swapping which leg you turned?
• 11:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because that's a lot of laps.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, it was always the same leg, but uh I think it was fine.
• 11:50
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, you're a bit you're a bit more built up than me than me at you came the next day from laps around the side of the house.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: So um now that you've broken the 48-hour record, do you have other challenges or are you quite happy with what you've done?
• 12:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um I'm quite quite happy for now.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh no one still tried to beat uh this record.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure someone will do it uh sooner or later.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: But uh for now I'm I'm quite happy.
• 12:20
  SPEAKER_01: I I expected actually to do a little bit more elevation.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: Like I thought maybe like 26,000 and maybe even more if I was like uh like maybe 28,000 if I was in a good day, uh or even thinking about the 30,000 uh barrier.
• 12:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh yeah, it's like a long effort, so many things can happen.
• 12:46
  SPEAKER_01: And I had a bit like uh stomach problems for like 12 hours.
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and it became better when I could sleep actually after like 30 hours.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so I had like a lot to go, like to go to a toilet.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Um I was not feeling very good.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_01: I I could eat a lot actually, so that was good uh during all the 48 hours.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Um but uh but yeah, I think I'm I'm I'm happy with uh overall result, but I'm sure if I'm doing it like one more time, I could improve a little bit.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but I don't want to do it uh soon because uh because it's uh quite a crazy effort, and uh it's also nice to just be in the mountains and explore like uh new landscapes and uh and yeah, so I'm not doing I will not do in do it soon, but uh yeah now the main objective is uh the tardégeon, um which uh was the main objective of the season.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_01: So now I'm doing a Rico of uh all the Tardégeon, like uh in the beginning of August, so it will be a great week in the mountains.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I'm also doing the Monterosa by UTMB 120k, uh like in two days.
• 14:08
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's uh on Friday, so yeah, it will be a nice uh journey in the Italian uh mountains.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: So with Monte Rosa coming up, have you got like a goal time or like a race strategy of what you're hoping to achieve at the race?
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I did the the Rico um like three weeks three weeks ago.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's crazy, it's so beautiful.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like you are running just uh at the bottom of uh Montservan, so it's uh it's really nice.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: Um I can't wait to to do the race.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I'm hoping for like 18 hours.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um so it's almost like the it's like the third place of last year.
• 14:51
  unknown: Yeah.
• 14:52
  SPEAKER_01: But this year there is a uh much bigger like density.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there are more elites.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe like with this time it will be more like uh I don't know, eight or ninth place.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_01: We'll see.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I'm hoping like for a top 10 because it's part like of my project to do top 10, like in those types of races.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_01: So we'll see.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: But uh actually I also would like to take my UTMB qualifying um slot with that way.
• 15:22
  SPEAKER_01: So you I so I need to do like a UTMB index of 760 points.
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so yeah, we will see.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: But uh I know that my main goal is like the Tour de Géant 330, and the 48 hours it's like it was two months ago.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm still not in my base best shape, I think.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and I hope to to have it like in two months, but it should not be that bad, so we'll see.
• 15:51
  SPEAKER_00: No well, best of luck, and that's really exciting.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_00: It's also really hard because you just the UTMB index, I just still have no clue how they calculate it.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: So it's like you just don't you can't really gauge what time you need to get to be able to get that index.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_00: It'll be a nice surprise a few days after.
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: And like each year, like if you do the same time, then you will lose some points on your UTMB index.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you need like to do better times and like to have the same quotation.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, but I I not try to be like too focused on that.
• 16:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but the thing is that brands are looking for that index, like when they do like a team.
• 16:32
  SPEAKER_01: So it's still important to have good index, but uh yeah, I think it's like a result if you do a good race, then you will get in one day a good in the index.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_00: Literally, and it's yeah, it's so dependent on who's there, the weather conditions, all sorts.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, well, best of luck.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: How are you preparing for Torch Giants?
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_00: Because I guess this is almost like a training race, but also a kind of a race towards it.
• 16:57
  SPEAKER_00: But how do you prepare for a race that's so long?
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, actually, uh it's a race that I think you like you prepare for like years.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_01: It's not what I've done like the four months before that will change everything.
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's like the finishing.
• 17:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, but uh like yeah, I think like a race like three speaks in twenty twenty-four, it will be like a big uh experience gain like for me for doing tour de géant.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, I am trying like to be in my best shape uh and to like do a big ROCO also, like in the beginning of August.
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: So like it will be a big week in the mountains.
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah, it's it's quite a lot of time in the mountains this summer.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like 25 hours a week of training.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, it's not really training, you are just up there in the mountains.
• 17:53
  SPEAKER_01: Um like in the winter it's more training because I'm doing like shorter session and I'm doing like intensity, all of that.
• 18:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh like during summer when uh it's like close up a big goes like that.
• 18:06
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's like a lot of time in the mountains, so it's what I love actually.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, I feel it's uh it's uh how do you say like it's been a long time that I'm really focused like on like trail running uh since like maybe like uh uh March.
• 18:29
  SPEAKER_01: And we are in July now.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I had like the 48 hours that I took that took a lot of uh uh of my brain and also my legs, of course.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so yeah, just after the Monterosa, I will I will go to Spain like for 10 days of holidays.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it will be nice also to relax a bit and think about uh something else and then to be again focused at 100% for the like the last uh six weeks uh after DJ.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's really exciting.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_00: Do you have like a sleep strategy and how you're gonna because we can't do 300k?
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I take you can't do 330k without stopping for a little sleep break, or do you just wait until you're tired?
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh sleep, you mean?
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, so I think I will have a strategy, but uh you need to adapt because uh sometimes your strategy is not really what um you are expecting, like in your ways.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: And there are also weather elements that can change a bit your strategy.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: Like if there is like a storm, for example, maybe you will you will think like oh I should push a little bit because then the storm is coming, so it will be a better time to sleep.
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_01: Uh also you are training more to sleep like in the valley because you see better in a valley like at 1000 meters than uh up in a hut like at 2500.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so yeah, I need to think about all of that.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I know that sleep is like so important.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_01: Like I prefer to sleep like more than my concurrents, but then to be faster.
• 20:08
  SPEAKER_01: Because I know like I'm still young, so like um uh compared like to my competitors at Tordesion, I think compared to most of them, I can be like faster, um like in downhill, uphill, but uh maybe they are more experienced and they are more like they have more endurance.
• 20:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but I know that if I'm in like in a good condition so I can um eat well, I I'm not like uh wanting to sleep too much, and my feet are good, I know that I can move pretty well.
• 20:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I think I want to maximize my sleep, like not sleep too too much, but uh like during the 48 hours I could sleep 45 minutes and it was perfect.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think uh I slept when I needed to, and I could sleep quite fast.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think at Tordaison I will do one night like with one hour 30 of sleep because it's uh exactly like uh uh a part of your sleep where you can really um uh recharge well uh during one hour 30, and then I will do short sleeps like out of uh 15 minutes or 20 minutes, I think.
• 21:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um so maybe it will be like the the first uh the first um two nights it will be short sleep and then the night after a long sleep, and then yeah, we'll see.
• 21:34
  SPEAKER_00: It is really interesting how everyone does different sleep strategies.
• 21:38
  SPEAKER_00: It's when I was listening to Courtney Devolter and she was like, Yeah, I only have like five-minute power naps.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm like, I I don't even think that would do anything.
• 21:46
  SPEAKER_00: But then people say they feel so refreshed afterwards.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, it's really interesting how it works to improve, but I never knew about like how it's easier to sleep in the valley than it is up at the top, which makes total sense.
• 21:57
  SPEAKER_00: I just never thought about these things, it's a lot of planning.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, actually it's just uh because of the altitude and also because um like uh most of the times um it's more comfortable in the valleys.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh you have like the shower and but it can depend.
• 22:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um I will also but like the Rico will also be the the test like to see how the are the like the huts and and yeah actually I don't know the tardésion so so we see.
• 22:30
  SPEAKER_00: Do you uh normally on races that are so long just use like sport nutrition or do you also go to real food?
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: No, like um I do both actually.
• 22:40
  SPEAKER_01: So real food and uh like between real food it will be like sport nutrition.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_01: So maybe it will be like uh I don't know every like six hours it will be like real food uh when I have like a proper estation.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um and and then between that yeah it will be yeah, sport nutrition and maybe like some sandwiches or things like that also.
• 23:05
  SPEAKER_01: But like real food is like the more the longer you are, like then the more important uh real food is.
• 23:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: And then I can imagine there's a lot of mandatory kit as well.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_00: So I guess you gotta train to be able to carry all the care as well.
• 23:20
  SPEAKER_01: No, actually not.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_01: I was quite surprised, but actually in Tardé Géant, yeah, Italians are quite uh chill.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_01: So so yeah, compared like to UTMB, it's nothing.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: It's like um no, no, it's it's like uh even uh last year there was someone that had only like a belt.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: No, wow.
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_01: He had like no bike, but he had like his assistance that was going to like to every hut like uh possible.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: So for me, I don't want to do that because I I want them uh to be alive at the end of my tour de géant and uh to be able also to enjoy and have some sleep.
• 23:56
  SPEAKER_01: Um so I will I will have a bag, but it will not be too heavy.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh in six peaks it was yeah, three speaks it was quite the same mandatory gear as as UTMB.
• 24:09
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but it was fine.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_01: It I had like a 15 liter, uh which was quite well uh well well um I don't know packed.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh now Dijon, I I think I will get like 8 litres and it will be enough.
• 24:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_00: That's crazy.
• 24:27
  SPEAKER_00: Because yeah, UTMB races, don't be wrong, it's rightly so, but they the kit list, it's like during a week's holiday.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: So long.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 24:36
  SPEAKER_01: But actually, when I'm doing like the Rico, I'm alone in the mountains for like one week.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_01: So then I have a big bag, so it's like five, six kilos.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but I think it's a very good training, and I think there are two less people like training with a big bag.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh often I see people like with a small bag and they are like running fast, etc.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: And then in the ways they are just walking most of it.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so yeah, I think a good strategy is like to often run with uh like a heavy bag, a heavy backpack, um, and actually it's doing like some strength training without like thinking of it.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_01: And also because like for your uh for like your your running style, it's uh it's all it's uh forced you like to be more efficient, you know, to be very close to the ground and like to lose the less energy possible.
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like uh it's a very good training, I think.
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah, no, definitely.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_00: It's also good to find out chafing.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, my rucksack, I always find new places, it's uncomfortable.
• 25:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like adventure, you know, like you have a like a small bag and you're like, oh, I I can do one week like that.
• 25:50
  SPEAKER_01: It's like yeah, it's quite you feel like you are free in the mountains.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's really cool.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_00: You've taken on some incredible races, and the list is endless.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_00: But have you got any more bucket list races or anything you really want to take on?
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, sure.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: So I have a list of 40 objectives actually, and I've done only five for now.
• 26:13
  SPEAKER_01: And uh so the longest one is the Valpina in one shot.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_01: So Vialpina is like crossing all the Alps, so you are starting from the east of Italy in uh Muggia, and uh you are doing 2,000 kilometers and like 150,000 meters of elevation, and uh yeah, now the FKT without assistance is like 40 uh 34 days, and yeah, I would like to do it uh one day in like a month, could be cool.
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_00: There's actually it was funny in the last episode which hasn't come out yet, we were actually talking about this because Sophie Grant is currently out there trying to beat the record.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, okay, so cool.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, she's aiming for 30 days.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think she should be, although this episode she'll be much further along by the time the episode comes out.
• 27:04
  SPEAKER_00: But I think she's currently on day nine or something like that.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, that's really exciting.
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_00: And the guest that was on the last episode is friends of her, so we were talking about it.
• 27:13
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, so potentially that record is gonna come down, but that trail looks insane and and it's a lot of uh not surprising considering it's the Alps, but yeah, in in comparison, like she's doing like every day like at least 50k with like 5,000 meters, and it's just insane.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's fun.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, any other bucket list advent well, you've got 35 on there, it's just complete, but any other highlight ones.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, uh then it's like um crossing the Pyrenees also.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like the GR10 in France, it's like 900 kilometers.
• 27:49
  SPEAKER_01: Um I have also crossing the Corsic crossing Corsica on a GR uh 20.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's uh the thing that did uh Francois Den like last week, he just beat it.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think like all those records I will try to do it like without assistance.
• 28:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um yeah, because it's very long and and um I feel when I'm doing long stuff in the mountains, it's cool like to be like alone and uh um yeah, to be self-sufficient, you know, like to of course like to recharge like in the valleys or with a mountain hut.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but you know on FKT you have like two types of records, you have like uh um with assistance and without.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think yeah, those records I will more do it like without, and also for the environmental uh point of view, because if you are like uh assisting someone for like 30 days in the aisle to the van, it's it's very long.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, maybe it's it's different actually, but uh yeah, and also the GR5 I want to do it like from the Lemon Lake, it's where I live actually, like to the Mediterranean uh sea.
• 29:03
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like 620k.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I don't know, maybe one one day when I I am finished with all of that, maybe the PCT could be cool also.
• 29:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um but there are so many things to do, and I also want to do other races like uh Diagonal Defu.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: I've never done it.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um I want to do also hard rock, I would love to do hard rock.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um so yeah.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_01: So actually it's quite cool because uh it's been nine years that I'm doing trail running, and I think that uh they had I still have so many things to do.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's cool.
• 29:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that's what I think is what's so amazing about trail running that the list is just endless, like the amount of opportunity, and there's probably challenges that we don't even know of right now that we're gonna end up doing in the future.
• 29:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's a really exciting sport to be in.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_00: What appeals you to like the really long stuff?
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: Because I I didn't hear anything short in that list.
• 30:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but so um actually when I started uh like trail running, I I never was like in the mood of doing a better time like in the same way that I did.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: So like um the competition side, you know.
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: So I always wanted to do longer uh distance than than before because I like I wanted to change myself with the distance and not like with the time.
• 30:30
  SPEAKER_01: Um so now I I try to be, of course, a little bit fast because uh it's it's my job as an athlete.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but yeah, I'm I'm much more like I prefer like yeah longer distances and and test my limits and discover new things um than like just uh pushing, pushing and try to be the faster possible and like gaining like five minutes on like a special race, or I don't know.
• 30:58
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's amazing.
• 31:02
  SPEAKER_00: And I guess so the longer the race, as much as you have or longest challenge, do you have highs, you have as many lows when things are really hard.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_00: How do you kind of get over when things are just hurting?
• 31:14
  SPEAKER_00: You're maybe struggling with nutrition, you're tired.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_00: What kind of keeps you going?
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, um yeah, actually in long distances, it's a bit like life, you know, you have up, downs, uh, like so many things happen.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: Um it's a bit like uh Vendeglobe.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know, it's like um sailing uh uh race where uh it lasts like 30 days uh for the best.
• 31:39
  SPEAKER_01: And then you can do also um uh you can see like what is the strategy of the other guys.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and it's quite cool, I think.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then during real race, you are like, oh uh is he going to sleep now?
• 31:53
  SPEAKER_01: Or maybe if I don't sleep now, I sleep later, I can pass him.
• 31:57
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like a lot of uh questions like that, and I love I love it.
• 32:02
  SPEAKER_01: Um because like for Swiss Swiss speaks, we had like uh an app where we could see like the the G the where like each one was in the race.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and so we could like uh yeah do some strategies with that, and like I could do like a top 10 uh like uh doing some strategies like that.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's quite it's quite uh fun, I think.
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: Um and I forgot to cut your your question actually.
• 32:31
  SPEAKER_00: Oh no, um when it's really hard, kind of like how do you get over?
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think it's also a lot of mental um preparation.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's a thing that I work, so I have uh someone who is helping me on that side.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um and you have to be really strong and to know exactly why you are doing that.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: If it's like for the bad reasons or not the good reasons, I think when it's really really hard, you will just uh DNF.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um but I think if if you you are not injured and you know what one or you know why you do it, even if you have a bad race.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_01: I think the the most difficult really, it's especially a bit like for elites, uh it's like you are doing a race, like a long race, and it's not um going as you wanted.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: So you know that you will be uh disappointed about your race, you know that it will be a bad race, but you are still pushing like to the finish line.
• 33:38
  SPEAKER_01: And that's so difficult.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: It's like so easier like to DNF, and that's why like you see UTMB, it's like half half of the elites they are all DNF like uh uh at the end because they see that it's uh they wanted to do 21 hours and they see that they will do 22, and like okay, I stop.
• 33:58
  SPEAKER_01: And um I think this is the more difficult because sometimes you have like still 100k to go, so it's quite long way, and even 150k, and uh yeah, and I don't know, you have like stomach problems, or you don't feel you have energy, and you are still pushing, and still pushing, and and that's really hard.
• 34:15
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I DNS'd only one time, like in nine years, uh, and it was like a race I I was like really injured.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it was a 100k race, actually, it was two years ago.
• 34:29
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but like I couldn't walk, it was still 55k.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um so so I DNF'd, but all the rest, uh like I finished all the races, and it was a lot of races where I was disappointed, and yeah, it was it's really difficult.
• 34:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um but yeah, it's a lot of uh I think uh experience also and uh training for your for your head.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's so true, and I think we focus so much on like being our best physical shape, but you've got to train your mind as much as you train your body because it's your mind that's gonna get you to the finish line as much as your body, and that's that's actually very impressive to only ever have one DNF as well, considering all the races you've done, which again shows that you have worked on the mental side of running as much as the physical side.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and exactly the more the more like uh it's longer, the more the mental becomes important, and the more also factors you have, like external factors, the sleep, the nutrition, uh your foot, um uh even uh for like I don't know, like the magnesium, the caffeine, like so many things, like on the hundred mile aways, even if you are not good in certain points, it's fine, but like on Tour de Géant or Swiss Pix 700k, it's like yeah, you have to be really careful.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it's what I like actually.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's like the I'm not the best like uh uh physically, like I would never have like the best uh VO2 max or um uh anything, but uh yeah, I think I can be good like to manage a lot of uh different uh uh factors and adapt.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_00: No, it's so true.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_00: And it is a lot of decision-making trial running.
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's like when do you put your jacket on?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: When do you take the channel?
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_00: And it's like, do I stop for a second and actually stop at this aid station?
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_00: It's like these decisions, do you think they don't matter that much, but they actually do like it's when people don't put their jackets on but then they get hypothermia and then they DNF, and it's like you do have to be good at making the right decisions and standing by, and it's like you might lose a bit of time now, but it's gonna save you time in the future.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: So, yeah, it's very true.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_00: Whereas roadrun, I feel like you just go flat out, and I think that's why trail running's so cool because you do actually have to kind of use your brain a bit more and make sure you're looking after yourself.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: So, kind of moving on, I'm gonna be asking all guests to bring a piece of trail running news to discuss.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, what piece of trail running news have you brought with you today?
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for me it's um Aurelia Sanchez uh doing the PCT.
• 37:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he's trying to beat the FKT of Carel Sabé, um who's done it a few years ago.
• 37:17
  SPEAKER_01: And uh now he's at day 38.
• 37:20
  SPEAKER_01: He's he's like at 80% of uh PCT, and he has like six hours advanced of a record, so it's it's uh it's uh it's quite uh now.
• 37:33
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but he stopped doing it because he had uh uh yeah, like uh two weeks ago he was uh like in a bad bad shape at the moment.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_01: Uh he was close like to GNF, but he continued and now he's it it uh it seems that he's feeling good and he's pushing.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, it's it's amazing because Carol Sabe is like the best guy in the world for like FKT uh for that type that type of FKT.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_01: So if Aurelia Frances do it, like yeah, it would be crazy.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_01: It would be as crazy as when he did the Barclay uh for me, even better.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_01: But uh but yeah, I so I I really want that uh that uh he raised the French flag uh up there in the in the US uh soil.
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_00: So what is is it PCT?
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, PCT, yeah.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: So like the FKT is uh 46 days, I think.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it's like 4,500 kilometers.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_01: So each day it's like 80 to 90k.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_00: Do you know how much that is there as well?
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I don't know, but it's a lot.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I can imagine.
• 38:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think at the start it's not much because you are like in near Mexic, uh Mexico, so it's more like desert, but it's so hot.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then you are going to the to the mountains, and now it's yeah, it's a lot of elevation, and then you go to Canada.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, so like to the border.
• 39:05
  SPEAKER_00: Because the start line is the Mexican border and then the finish line is the Canadian border, right?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that's it.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_00: No, that's amazing.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_00: And that's because a lot of people they don't, I don't think it's the same trail, but a lot of people cycle that, and like cycling it is hard.
• 39:19
  SPEAKER_00: So to run it, that is incredible.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 39:23
  SPEAKER_01: So there is a race uh which is called I think Transcontinental or something like that.
• 39:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh yeah, and it's 5,000k, I think.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh cycling, yeah.
• 39:32
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's actually the same, but uh taking the the trails that exist.
• 39:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, that is crazy.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I've yeah, when you said that you were gonna bring that trail news, I was looking at the dot watching and all that, and I was just like looking at the map, I was just like, this is crazy.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_00: Like really, yeah, really, really amazing.
• 39:52
  SPEAKER_00: Well, the piece of trail news I was gonna bring was UTMB.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: So they've got two races in the UK.
• 39:58
  SPEAKER_00: There's a third that's gonna come, so it's gonna be Scottish Skyline.
• 40:00
  SPEAKER_00: But at the moment, we've got Ultra Trail Snowdonia and we've got Archfitrician.
• 40:04
  SPEAKER_00: And Archfittrition is for people that haven't heard of it, it's like a race on the Cornish coastal path.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_00: It's not got the most elevation, but it's in January, and British weather in January is not great.
• 40:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it's known for its storms and muds, and this year was particularly horrific, the mud.
• 40:20
  SPEAKER_00: But they've actually just released and they're gonna completely change the courses, which, well, the 100 miler, which is kind of like the famous iconic route, is staying as it is.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: The 80K is now gonna start at land's end, the 50k is now gonna go north to south, and the 20k is gonna be like a loop, which is really interesting because there was a lot of talk after our patrons because it was particularly horrendous the mud, and it caused a lot of problems, and it's quite a big race in the UK.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_00: So it's gonna be exciting to see how this new course works, and I believe the coastal path's a bit more technical north as well, so that's gonna be exciting to see what happens.
• 40:56
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of the bigger trail runners in the UK take part in this because there's not many trail races over the winter, so especially in the Alps because it's snow.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_00: So it's quite a popular trail race for trying to get a bit of racing in over the winter.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I'm excited to see what ARC is gonna look like.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, it'll be next year by then, but over the next few months, see what news comes out.
• 41:20
  SPEAKER_01: It's cool for the new race.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: Um and what is the elevation like for the Scottish uh one?
• 41:26
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the Scottish one, they haven't released the course yet.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_00: Um so there's this race director called Ariya who went bankrupt, basically.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_00: And so the Scottish one's only just been announced, and I don't think the courses are out yet.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm also intrigued to see that um it'll be interesting if they use the Scottish Trieline actual routes or if they're gonna change it.
• 41:46
  SPEAKER_00: But the UTS, the ultra-trial Snowden are very technical and it's known to be harder than UTMB, and then archivation's quite flat because the hundred mile has got 5,000 metres, which it's it's still a lot of elevation, but for a hundred mile UTMB race, it's more of a but I would love to do I would like to do a Snowdonia Snowden one day.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Uh but uh yeah, Scotland seems very nice.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know this country.
• 42:15
  SPEAKER_01: I might go there for holidays in September.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_01: Well you'll be uh you'll be there before me.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_00: I've never been to Scotland, which considering I live so close, I really should go to Wales lots, but although you'll get there quicker than me, because I think it's about a nine-hour drive.
• 42:32
  SPEAKER_00: But okay.
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_01: But yeah, it seems to have to have a really nice mountains there and technical also.
• 42:37
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I can't wait to to see what this race is gonna be.
• 42:41
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, no, I'm excited to see what UCMB brings with Scottish Caroline.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_00: I might have to go up and try, though the weather's meant to be awful, that's what's always put me off.
• 42:49
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, thank you so much for that conversation.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_00: That was really, really exciting, and best of luck for your race at the weekend.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um, we'll all be following you along.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_00: So, and by the time this episode comes out, the race will have already happened.
• 43:03
  SPEAKER_00: So make sure you check out his Instagram that's linked in the description.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure you'll be able to see.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_00: Hopefully, it'll be a top 10 finish, and you've got the UTM V index, and we'll be cheering along.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then best of luck with Tour to Chance as well.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_00: But thank you so much for joining the conversation.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks a lot, Beth.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_01: It was a pleasure to be here, and uh thanks uh everyone for listening uh to this podcast.